Re: disk space, was: Re[2]: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Antje Lehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> @ 12-Feb-2004 1:25:55 PM "disk space, was: Re[2]: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)" <mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > before I found out about the maintenance feature I had loads > of MBs occupied by TB! without even knowing it was TB!... after the > first clean-up (purge old messages, remove deleted messages) I think I > had appr. 100 MB of disk space recovered. Now I do the maintenance > thing every once in a while, but I'm still wondering why exactly I > need to do that. Does that have to do with making deleted data > reversible, maybe? When you delete a message in The Bat!, it is only marked as deleted in the index file (the .TBI file). This has a number of benefits: * Messages can be deleted quickly. * Deleted messages can be restored. * The "Move" function can be safer. It copies then deletes. If any part fails, the message still exists. When you compress, The Bat! reads the index file and removes any messages not in it from the message base (the .TBB files). That is why, after a couple of months of use, compressing can save so much space. Every time you use a "move" filter, a duplicate copy exists in the Inbox until you compress. Your deleted messages also exist until you compress. NB: The message may be marked as deleted in the message base also. To test this theory, delete a message but do not compress. Then, after making the proper backups, delete the index files. Re-open The Bat! and see if the deleted message reappears. If it does, it was only marked as deleted in the index file and not the message base. -- Chris - Nun mi Esperanton lernanta estas. Quoting when replying to this message is good for your karma. If little green men land in your back yard, hide any little green women you've got in the house. Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
disk space, was: Re[2]: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hi, Deborah W wrote: > & using up huge amounts of system resources in Eudora...) which I'm > very glad I don't see in TB. I did... before I found out about the maintenance feature I had loads of MBs occupied by TB! without even knowing it was TB!... after the first clean-up (purge old messages, remove deleted messages) I think I had appr. 100 MB of disk space recovered. Now I do the maintenance thing every once in a while, but I'm still wondering why exactly I need to do that. Does that have to do with making deleted data reversible, maybe? -- Antje Using The Bat! v2.01.3 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A | Antje Lehmann | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Deborah, On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 4:03:36 AM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): DW> I like TB's behaviour better myself. As Allie pointed out, it's very DW> nice to be able to leave a folder & return to it & not have to find DW> the message you were looking at before. I *much* prefer this to the DW> way any of the other email clients I've used handles leaving/returning DW> to a folder. DW> I see you've found a resolution for your problem later in the DW> thread - apparently the issue wasn't TB's behaviour but rather its DW> option to purge & compress folders. I like being able to do that DW> too (though I don't do it on exit). It's working pretty well for me now, too! I had no idea that the pointer was being deleted. I'm not sure when or how the Compress on Exit feature got turned on (unless it is on by default). However, as I mentioned to Allie, I'm not sure why that would change the last read mail pointer. I have used many other databases where this is not the case. I can think back to the BBS days where all of my databases (on Wildcat!) were compressed once a week as an automated event. If all of my users lost their last read pointers, they would have been very upset. (Looking back on it - another mail product with an exclamation point in its name!) :) By the way, looking back at my last several posts, one might think my responses to you were antagonistic. I hope you did not take it that way. That certainly was not my intent. I simply was trying to find a solution - perhaps I was getting a bit frustrated trying to help others understand what I was looking to do. This is not exactly what I was looking for, but it now works pretty well for me. I don't need to compress all the time - that's for sure. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 7:30:54 PM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH> You're still not getting it. I'm looking to have my inbox (and WH> other folders) open to the new, previously unseen messages, WH> starting with the oldest of these - while keeping the remaining WH> messages in view. I'm not trying to purge or compress anything. WH> This is normal behavior for every other mail reader I've seen. I like TB's behaviour better myself. As Allie pointed out, it's very nice to be able to leave a folder & return to it & not have to find the message you were looking at before. I *much* prefer this to the way any of the other email clients I've used handles leaving/returning to a folder. I see you've found a resolution for your problem later in the thread - apparently the issue wasn't TB's behaviour but rather its option to purge & compress folders. I like being able to do that too (though I don't do it on exit). -- Deborah A child educated only at school is an uneducated child. Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hallo Wayne, On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:30:54 -0500GMT (11-2-04, 20:30 +0100, where I live), you wrote: DW>> In OE, when you leave a folder, it doesn't remember the message you DW>> last viewed. And you can't purge/compress folders in OE, afaik. So not DW>> really comparing apples with apples iyswim. WH> You're still not getting it. I'm looking to have my inbox (and other WH> folders) open to the new, previously unseen messages, starting with WH> the oldest of these - while keeping the remaining messages in view. Well, TB goes to the last read message, that's not so uncommon. I've used several mail readers that had that behaviour. WH> I'm not trying to purge or compress anything. As long as you don't compress (not sure about purging) TB remembers the message you left in the folder. As soon as you're starting to compress, TB wil rebuild the index and unfortunately forgets where you were left. WH> This is normal behavior for every other mail reader I've seen. That proofs that you haven't seen them all. ;-) -- Groetjes, Roelof Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Wayne, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 8:04:15 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): WH> I bet that's it! I have Compress on Exit is on for my Inbox. I don't WH> recall turning that on. Is it on by default? Allie, I just knew WH> chatting with you about this would lead to an answer! Thanks! This indeed fixed the problem I was having. A big thank you to everyone else who helped me think about this with your numerous suggestions. I learned a lot about The Bat! just from this discussion alone. I must admit that I am still perplexed why applying a filter would reset a pointer (let alone compacting). There are many databases I have used where filtering and compacting have no effect on pointers. This is a really great mail list group! The Bat! would simply not be the application it is without it. It makes me mad to see the poor review in PC Magazine in the U.S. Surely they did not take a very long look at the applications they were reviewing. I don't think I will renew my subscription. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Allie, On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 19:08:09[GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] (which was 08:08 where I live) Allie wrote: Allie> I'd regularly decompress the Inbox only if I'm receiving thousands of Allie> messages per day. As a matter of fact, I do receive thousands of news msgs per day with MyGate. -- Best regards, Bobi Jam TB! 2.03 RC/1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Allie, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 7:08:09 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): AM> Turn off auto-compression of all folders and do a weekly AM> cleanup/maintenance operation. You should be fine that way in that TB! AM> should remember your last position within folders between restarts. I bet that's it! I have Compress on Exit is on for my Inbox. I don't recall turning that on. Is it on by default? Allie, I just knew chatting with you about this would lead to an answer! Thanks! Between getting this resolved and the Scroll Wheel issue being fixed last week, I'm happy as a clam! -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Allie Martin wrote: > Of course, what tends to disrupt TB! remembering which message you were > last reading in each folder is when you do some sort of maintenance > operation on the message base. This is why I avoid doing that unless > it's really warranted. Allie, I agree with you in that (for me) the most important behavior is returning to the last message selected/viewed. I supposed I can understand why a compress/purge would "break" the pointer to the last viewed message since that operation is acting on the message base. What I don't like is having a filter break the pointer. If I invoke a filter that ends up hiding the last selected message, then remove the filter, why should focus jump to the top? Nothing is being written to the message base, right? Note that I am not selecting any message after applying the filter (otherwise *that* would be the selected message). This most often happens when I want to search a folder for posts from a particular person and then move to another folder without removing the filter. Suddenly, the folder I've just moved to has invoked that filter but I don't want it. Removing the filter (no other action taken on messages in this folder) put me at the top of the message list. -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Wayne Howard, [WH] wrote: WH> That's what I was hoping for myself. After thinking about it some WH> more, it's mainly the Inbox which bothers me - much more than any of WH> the folders. Here, I really think that I have something set wrong (or WH> it is broken). Although I have it set to sort on Received time and put WH> newer messages at the bottom, it rarely goes there when I start The WH> Bat! after shutting down. I don't think it used to behave this way. Turn off auto-compression of all folders and do a weekly cleanup/maintenance operation. You should be fine that way in that TB! should remember your last position within folders between restarts. I'd regularly decompress the Inbox only if I'm receiving thousands of messages per day. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.03 RC/1 on WinXP Pro (SP1) Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Allie, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 5:25:45 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): I was surprised that you hadn't chimed in on this one before now. :) You always seem to have a good perspective on things such as this. AM> Even if I wanted what you wanted, it would be frustrating in a AM> threaded AM> environment since it's not easy to look at new messages when AM> they're AM> scattered among threads, many of which are collapsed. I think that has a lot to do with it, I rarely read in thread mode. AM> So, in conclusion, the behaviour you wish for is one that would AM> actually AM> upset me. AM> But, of course, I have no problem with the behaviour you prefer AM> being AM> introduced as an option so everyone can be happy. To each their AM> own. That's what I was hoping for myself. After thinking about it some more, it's mainly the Inbox which bothers me - much more than any of the folders. Here, I really think that I have something set wrong (or it is broken). Although I have it set to sort on Received time and put newer messages at the bottom, it rarely goes there when I start The Bat! after shutting down. I don't think it used to behave this way. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Wayne Howard, [WH] wrote: WH> The more I think about it, this should be a bug not a feature WH> request. This is the only mail application that I have ever seen WH> behave this way. I'm shocked that most people don't find it WH> annoying, especially those who are using TB to read mail lists. :) I don't have a problem with the behaviour. I'm more particular with being placed in the folder where I left it. For example, I was reading this thread over again to make a comment with perspective on the discussion to date, but a new message appeared in my Inbox. I selected the Inbox to look at the new message to see if it was important and did so with full knowledge that when I returned to the TBUDL folder, that I'd be taken to the last message I was looking at, and NOT, the one next to or to the oldest unread messages in the folder. It's easy to find new messages. It's difficult to find an already read message among thousands, though, mind you there are keystrokes to help with that. Of course, what tends to disrupt TB! remembering which message you were last reading in each folder is when you do some sort of maintenance operation on the message base. This is why I avoid doing that unless it's really warranted. Even if I wanted what you wanted, it would be frustrating in a threaded environment since it's not easy to look at new messages when they're scattered among threads, many of which are collapsed. So, in conclusion, the behaviour you wish for is one that would actually upset me. But, of course, I have no problem with the behaviour you prefer being introduced as an option so everyone can be happy. To each their own. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.03 RC/1 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Deborah, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 1:04:51 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): DW> In OE, when you leave a folder, it doesn't remember the message you DW> last viewed. And you can't purge/compress folders in OE, afaik. So not DW> really comparing apples with apples iyswim. You're still not getting it. I'm looking to have my inbox (and other folders) open to the new, previously unseen messages, starting with the oldest of these - while keeping the remaining messages in view. I'm not trying to purge or compress anything. This is normal behavior for every other mail reader I've seen. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello ken, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 1:01:45 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): kg> Are you sure you guys are talking about the same behavior? A lot of kg> this discussion has been about views and moving around messages, but kg> IIRC, the original point was simply: return to the last message I was kg> looking at. kg> And I do believe this is pretty "normal" behavior for e-mail clients. At least that's what I'm talking about and I started the thread. To be fair, it took two corrections of my original message before I said it right, though. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 5:52:32 PM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH> It certainly is in OE and full Outlook 2000/2002. I just tested WH> it. In OE, when you leave a folder, it doesn't remember the message you last viewed. And you can't purge/compress folders in OE, afaik. So not really comparing apples with apples iyswim. -- Deborah In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Deborah W wrote: WH>> Because this should be unnecessary. What I describe is normal WH>> behavior in every other mail application I have used. > It's not normal behaviour for OE, or for Eudora, or, I think, > Pegasus...of course there are other things which are normal behaviour > in those apps (such as defaulting to html, & running viruses > automatically, in OE, & using up huge amounts of system resources in > Eudora...) which I'm very glad I don't see in TB. Are you sure you guys are talking about the same behavior? A lot of this discussion has been about views and moving around messages, but IIRC, the original point was simply: return to the last message I was looking at. And I do believe this is pretty "normal" behavior for e-mail clients. -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Deborah, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 12:15:59 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): DW> It's not normal behaviour for OE, or for Eudora, or, I think, DW> Pegasus...of course there are other things which are normal behaviour DW> in those apps (such as defaulting to html, & running viruses DW> automatically, in OE, & using up huge amounts of system resources in DW> Eudora...) which I'm very glad I don't see in TB. It certainly is in OE and full Outlook 2000/2002. I just tested it. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 1:26:42 PM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH> Because this should be unnecessary. What I describe is normal WH> behavior in every other mail application I have used. It's not normal behaviour for OE, or for Eudora, or, I think, Pegasus...of course there are other things which are normal behaviour in those apps (such as defaulting to html, & running viruses automatically, in OE, & using up huge amounts of system resources in Eudora...) which I'm very glad I don't see in TB. -- Deborah Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zigzag? Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello ken, On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:02:26 -0600 GMT (11/02/2004, 02:02 +0700 GMT), ken green wrote: > But by your logic, it would be logical if while reading through > messages, I deleted a message, the focus jumped to the top of the list. > And that certainly doesn't make sense. You are right about this. > How about mimicking the behavior of manual deletion? Yes, this would make sense IMHO. > I think that returning from a filter or compressing, etc. focus should > return to the last message viewed. If not that, then at least let us > choose top or bottom. OK. I would even support this. :-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Things You Would Never Know Without the Movies: When a person is knocked unconscious by a blow to the head, they will never suffer a concussion or brain damage. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.03 Beta/59 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Chris, On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 4:24:21 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): >> If not, I will submit a feature request. C> You will probably need to submit a feature request. However, you C> should do a search first so that you don't create a duplicate C> feature C> request. The more I think about it, this should be a bug not a feature request. This is the only mail application that I have ever seen behave this way. I'm shocked that most people don't find it annoying, especially those who are using TB to read mail lists. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Bobi, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 3:38:26 AM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): BJ> Hello Deborah, BJ> On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 08:19:40[GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] (which was BJ> 16:19 where I live) Deborah wrote: Deborah>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, 6:44:26 PM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH>>> 1) I actually do not want to go to any unread messages. What I WH>>> really want to do is go to the oldest new message. Sometimes I WH>>> skip over messages that are not important, i.e. spam. I want to be WH>>> able to quickly see what messages have been added to the folder WH>>> since I last opened the folder. I do this in MS Outlook all the WH>>> time. Deborah>> So you want to *see* but not *open* your unread messages, right? In Deborah>> that case, why not use the View-Display-Only Unread Messages option? BJ> He and me too don't want to screen read messages neither. That is correct. WH>>> 2) I want it to be automated. I don't want to scroll or use a WH>>> keystroke. Deborah>> H...I guess I don't see it as such a big deal to use one keystroke Deborah>> to do what I want to do. TB gives me much more flexibility in moving Deborah>> around my email that Outlook (or anything else I've ever tried) - that Deborah>> matters more to me. BJ> You didn't read his situation clearly. He and many of us often only read BJ> some part of messages, especially in the mailing list case, thus leave read BJ> and unread msgs staggered everywhere. Every day, we make TB! purge msgs on BJ> exit to automatically delete old read and unread msgs, this makes in the BJ> next time TB lose its msg selection, it's really inconvenient, and BJ> Ctl-Alt-Right keystroke can not solve this situation, because the keystroke BJ> only makes TB select the first unread msg which in most case is what we BJ> don't interested one; We lost and need take burden to find where we last BJ> time at. This is similar to my experience but I am not automatically deleting messages. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Deborah, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 3:19:40 AM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): DW> So you want to *see* but not *open* your unread messages, right? In DW> that case, why not use the View-Display-Only Unread Messages option? Because I want to see the read and unread messages. DW> H...I guess I don't see it as such a big deal to use one keystroke DW> to do what I want to do. TB gives me much more flexibility in moving DW> around my email that Outlook (or anything else I've ever tried) - that DW> matters more to me. Because this should be unnecessary. What I describe is normal behavior in every other mail application I have used. DW> Just one further thought - this might not be a suitable solution for DW> you, depending on your circumstances, but what about using the Message DW> Ticker & the Virtual Folder it provides? No, it's not. It doesn't do the same thing that I am talking about. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Bobi Jam, [BJ] wrote: BJ> Every day, we make TB! purge msgs on exit to automatically delete BJ> old read and unread msgs, this makes in the next time TB lose its BJ> msg selection, it's really inconvenient, and Ctl-Alt-Right keystroke BJ> can not solve this situation, because the keystroke only makes TB BJ> select the first unread msg which in most case is what we don't BJ> interested one; We lost and need take burden to find where we last BJ> time at. I see what you mean. Why purge and compress everyday on exit? Why not do it manually once a week? TB! handles large bases very well and purging and compressing messes up your position in the message list. -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.03 RC/1 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Deborah, On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 08:19:40[GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] (which was 16:19 where I live) Deborah wrote: Deborah> On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, 6:44:26 PM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH>> 1) I actually do not want to go to any unread messages. What I WH>> really want to do is go to the oldest new message. Sometimes I WH>> skip over messages that are not important, i.e. spam. I want to be WH>> able to quickly see what messages have been added to the folder WH>> since I last opened the folder. I do this in MS Outlook all the WH>> time. Deborah> So you want to *see* but not *open* your unread messages, right? In Deborah> that case, why not use the View-Display-Only Unread Messages option? He and me too don't want to screen read messages neither. WH>> 2) I want it to be automated. I don't want to scroll or use a WH>> keystroke. Deborah> H...I guess I don't see it as such a big deal to use one keystroke Deborah> to do what I want to do. TB gives me much more flexibility in moving Deborah> around my email that Outlook (or anything else I've ever tried) - that Deborah> matters more to me. You didn't read his situation clearly. He and many of us often only read some part of messages, especially in the mailing list case, thus leave read and unread msgs staggered everywhere. Every day, we make TB! purge msgs on exit to automatically delete old read and unread msgs, this makes in the next time TB lose its msg selection, it's really inconvenient, and Ctl-Alt-Right keystroke can not solve this situation, because the keystroke only makes TB select the first unread msg which in most case is what we don't interested one; We lost and need take burden to find where we last time at. -- Best regards, Bobi Jam TB! 2.03 RC/1 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, 6:44:26 PM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH> 1) I actually do not want to go to any unread messages. What I WH> really want to do is go to the oldest new message. Sometimes I WH> skip over messages that are not important, i.e. spam. I want to be WH> able to quickly see what messages have been added to the folder WH> since I last opened the folder. I do this in MS Outlook all the WH> time. So you want to *see* but not *open* your unread messages, right? In that case, why not use the View-Display-Only Unread Messages option? WH> 2) I want it to be automated. I don't want to scroll or use a WH> keystroke. H...I guess I don't see it as such a big deal to use one keystroke to do what I want to do. TB gives me much more flexibility in moving around my email that Outlook (or anything else I've ever tried) - that matters more to me. Just one further thought - this might not be a suitable solution for you, depending on your circumstances, but what about using the Message Ticker & the Virtual Folder it provides? -- Deborah Mahatma Ghandi, when asked by a reporter for his opinion of western civilisation: "I think it would be a good idea." Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, 2:30:36 PM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH> That would be fine, but it has been my experience that this is not WH> always the case. Sometimes it scrolls all the way to the top and WH> ignores what is the last read message - especially with the inbox. WH> Is this a bug? Does anyone else experience this? Yes, this will happen if there's been anything *done* to the folder since you last viewed it, such as purging & compressing it. I would also like TB to remember the last message through such procedures. -- Deborah A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. - William James Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
DW>>> if ... was the last message you viewed in that folder, it will DW>>> be the one displayed when you open the folder again. >> That would be fine, but it has been my experience that this is not >> always the case. Sometimes it scrolls all the way to the top and >> ignores what is the last read message - especially with the inbox. >> Is this a bug? Does anyone else experience this? TF> I don't think it's a bug. It happens over here when I kill dupes TF> and the last message I read was a dupe. It also happens when I TF> purge & compress; I find it logical that the focus is at the top TF> (it must be somewhere, right?). The comress action explains why this happens to me all the time... My Bat is set to compress on every exit! Yes, it must indeed be somewhere. I wish it was where I left it! -- Rich Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
DW>> if ... was the last message you viewed in that folder, it will be DW>> the one displayed when you open the folder again. WH> That would be fine, but it has been my experience that this is not WH> always the case. Sometimes it scrolls all the way to the top and WH> ignores what is the last read message - especially with the inbox. Is WH> this a bug? Does anyone else experience this? Here also. *Most* of the folders *usually* remember the last message you were on but *never* the Inbox. It makes me nuts. -- Rich Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Chris, On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 4:24:21 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): C> You will probably need to submit a feature request. However, you C> should do a search first so that you don't create a duplicate C> feature C> request. That's part of the problem... what to call it/search on. This discussion helps to some degree. It's taken me several messages to describe what it is that I'm looking to do. I was hoping that there was already a way to do this and I was just not seeing it! :) -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 RC/1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Wayne Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> @ 10-Feb-2004 1:44:26 PM "Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)" <mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > If not, I will submit a feature request. You will probably need to submit a feature request. However, you should do a search first so that you don't create a duplicate feature request. -- Chris Quoting when replying to this message is good for your karma. Nun mi Esperanton lernanta estas. Science is true. Don't be misled by facts. Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Peter, On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 1:21:54 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): PM> No need to scroll. + takes you to the next (first) unread PM> message. Further clarification. I think I need to restate my objective: 1) I actually do not want to go to any unread messages. What I really want to do is go to the oldest new message. Sometimes I skip over messages that are not important, i.e. spam. I want to be able to quickly see what messages have been added to the folder since I last opened the folder. I do this in MS Outlook all the time. 2) I want it to be automated. I don't want to scroll or use a keystroke. 3) I'm looking to see if there is a setting or a way to do this currently. If not, I will submit a feature request. This is something that has bugged me since 2.0 came out. I don't think it worked this way in 1.X, but I could be wrong. I also have a lot more messages in my folders so I may not have noticed it before. Thanks for all of your suggestions. Some of them will help me a lot until I find a better way. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 Beta/61 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Thomas Fernandez wrote: > I don't think it's a bug. It happens over here when I kill dupes and > the last message I read was a dupe. It also happens when I purge & > compress; I find it logical that the focus is at the top (it must be > somewhere, right?). I don't think it's a bug, either. But I don't necessarily think the current behavior is logical. Of course, if the last message I was viewing is deleted then I don't expect to see that message! But by your logic, it would be logical if while reading through messages, I deleted a message, the focus jumped to the top of the list. And that certainly doesn't make sense. How about mimicking the behavior of manual deletion? While in the message list, deleting a message brings the focus to the next message. If the message that was deleted was the last one, focus jumps to the previous message. Now *that's* logical... ;) I also do not like the behavior after applying a filter or view to a folder that doesn't produce "hits", then removing the filter (view all) and have the focus jump to the top. This happens most often when I filter a folder, then move to another folder without remembering to clear the view/filter. Ctrl+= is easy enough, but it brings me to the top of the message list. Why? Granted, your argument that it has to go *somewhere* does have merit. But couldn't that be a global option set by the user? The Bat is touted as incredibly powerful and flexible, but in a few small areas (changing the subject line is another example), TB is pretty rigid. I think that returning from a filter or compressing, etc. focus should return to the last message viewed. If not that, then at least let us choose top or bottom. -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hi Wayne, on Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:22:55 -0500GMT, you wrote: TF>> I don't think it's a bug. It happens over here when I kill dupes and TF>> the last message I read was a dupe. It also happens when I purge & TF>> compress; I find it logical that the focus is at the top (it must be TF>> somewhere, right?). WH> It is standard in most email applications to put the focus on new mail WH> in the folder. I wish there was at least a setting that would allow me WH> to do that in TB. I hate having to scroll for my messages every time I WH> access my Inbox. No need to scroll. + takes you to the next (first) unread message. -- Cheers Peter Me, indecisive? I'm not so sure about that... Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Deborah W wrote: > though if the last unread message was the last message you viewed in > that folder, it will be the one displayed when you open the folder > again. Not always true. It seems that any processing of the folder (ex: compressing) or invoking a filter/view causes TB to bring you back to the top of the message list no matter what message had the focus when you left. If you select a message in a folder, then go to another folder and just read mail (don't compress, don't filter, don't search, etc.) then return to the first folder, then yes, the last message you viewed will still be selected. This has been an ongoing issue (returning to the top of the list) that many seem to just deal with. I personally use either End, or Ctrl+] to get to first unread. But it's especially frustrating for those of us that sort mail with newest on the bottom. -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Thomas, On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 11:30:34 AM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): TF> I don't think it's a bug. It happens over here when I kill dupes and TF> the last message I read was a dupe. It also happens when I purge & TF> compress; I find it logical that the focus is at the top (it must be TF> somewhere, right?). It is standard in most email applications to put the focus on new mail in the folder. I wish there was at least a setting that would allow me to do that in TB. I hate having to scroll for my messages every time I access my Inbox. In other folders, it does it some of (but not all) of the time. The behavior seems to be different for my Inbox on my machine. That is why I think it is a bug. I suppose something could be corrupted - but what? Thanks for your reply. -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 Beta/61 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Wayne, On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:30:36 -0500 GMT (10/02/2004, 21:30 +0700 GMT), Wayne Howard wrote: DW>> if the last unread message was the last message you viewed in DW>> that folder, it will be the one displayed when you open the DW>> folder again. > That would be fine, but it has been my experience that this is not > always the case. Sometimes it scrolls all the way to the top and > ignores what is the last read message - especially with the inbox. Is > this a bug? Does anyone else experience this? I don't think it's a bug. It happens over here when I kill dupes and the last message I read was a dupe. It also happens when I purge & compress; I find it logical that the focus is at the top (it must be somewhere, right?). -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. My wife and I were happy for twenty years then we met. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.03 Beta/59 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Deborah, On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 5:25:19 AM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): DW> if the DW> last unread message was the last message you viewed in that folder, it DW> will be the one displayed when you open the folder again. That would be fine, but it has been my experience that this is not always the case. Sometimes it scrolls all the way to the top and ignores what is the last read message - especially with the inbox. Is this a bug? Does anyone else experience this? -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 Beta/61 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, 2:26:41 AM, Wayne Howard wrote: WH> Chris, after reading your reply, I guess it would be more accurate WH> to say the oldest, unread message so that I read them in order. I WH> just don't want to go to the bottom or top. Ctrl-Alt-Right will take you to the next unread message, which isn't quite what you asked for, I know, but it's as close as I know. WH> I also want it to be the default when I open a folder. This is the WH> way I am used to working in almost every other mail application I WH> have used. Any thoughts?? I hope that I said it right this time! WH> :) I don't know if there's a way to make it the default, though if the last unread message was the last message you viewed in that folder, it will be the one displayed when you open the folder again. -- Deborah Liberty not only means that the individual has both the opportunity and the burden of choice; it also means that he must bear the consequences of his actions and will receive praise or blame for them. - F. A. Hayek Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Wayne Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> @ 9-Feb-2004 9:11:22 PM "Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)" <mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I think I mean to scroll to the last read message (rather than last > received message). I'm not sure. The bottom line is that I want to > quickly be able to read the latest, unread messages that I haven't > seen without having to scroll for them a long way. Is there a setting > to do that? Easily, not that I know of. You can change the View options so that you only see unread messages: View -> Display -> Only unread messages and then use Home and End. -- Chris Quoting when replying to this message is good for your karma. Programming is an art form that fights back. Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Wayne, On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 9:11:22 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): WH> Clarification... WH> I think I mean to scroll to the last read message (rather than last WH> received message). I'm not sure. The bottom line is that I want to WH> quickly be able to read the latest, unread messages that I haven't WH> seen without having to scroll for them a long way. Is there a setting WH> to do that? Further clarification... Chris, after reading your reply, I guess it would be more accurate to say the oldest, unread message so that I read them in order. I just don't want to go to the bottom or top. I also want it to be the default when I open a folder. This is the way I am used to working in almost every other mail application I have used. Any thoughts?? I hope that I said it right this time! :) -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 Beta/61 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Hello Wayne, On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 8:49:48 PM, you wrote re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s): WH> Does anyone know if there is a way to set TB to scroll to the last WH> received message (either at the top or the bottom)? This seems to be WH> standard in most mail applications that I have seen. Often I have to WH> scroll the whole length of a large inbox only to see a few messages at WH> the very bottom (or the top). I can't help but think that I am missing WH> a setting, but I can't figure out what it might be. Clarification... I think I mean to scroll to the last read message (rather than last received message). I'm not sure. The bottom line is that I want to quickly be able to read the latest, unread messages that I haven't seen without having to scroll for them a long way. Is there a setting to do that? Thanks! -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 Beta/61 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Wayne Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> @ 9-Feb-2004 8:49:48 PM "Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)" <mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Does anyone know if there is a way to set TB to scroll to the last > received message (either at the top or the bottom)? This seems to be > standard in most mail applications that I have seen. Often I have to > scroll the whole length of a large inbox only to see a few messages at > the very bottom (or the top). I can't help but think that I am missing > a setting, but I can't figure out what it might be. The Home button takes you to the beginning (top) of the list. The End button takes you to the end (bottom). -- Chris Quoting when replying to this message is good for your karma. Notice in a dry cleaner's window: ANYONE LEAVING THEIR GARMENTS HERE FOR MORE THAN 30 DAYS WILL BE DISPOSED OF Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Sort/Scroll to the last received message(s)
Does anyone know if there is a way to set TB to scroll to the last received message (either at the top or the bottom)? This seems to be standard in most mail applications that I have seen. Often I have to scroll the whole length of a large inbox only to see a few messages at the very bottom (or the top). I can't help but think that I am missing a setting, but I can't figure out what it might be. Thanks! -- Cheers! Wayne Howard Using The Bat! version: 2.03 Beta/61 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
