Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Rod Goke]

The question of fault:Is it the United States' fault for banning drugs and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle drugs northwards, or is it Mexico's fault for banning guns and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle guns southward? That issue ranks right up there with life's other great questions, like "Which blade of the scissors is responsible for the cutting?"A serious question about gun sources for Mexican criminals:Some people, especially some in the Mexican government, have complained that Mexican criminals are obtaining guns by smuggling them from the U.S. into Mexico, and there is evidence indicating that this is true to some degree. There also have been many news reports indicating that organized criminal gangs in Mexico have been able to bribe, intimidate, or otherwise induce significant numbers of Mexican police and military personnel to work for the criminals. This, of course, does not imply that all, or even most, of the Mexican police or military personnel are corrupt, but the reports do seem to indicate that the gangs have been able to buy enough influence of this type to be a major and growing problem in portions of Mexico. In this case, I wonder how many of the military and police style weapons flowing to Mexican criminals are coming from corrupt sources in the Mexican police and military and, hence, would continue to be available to criminals there even if all gun smuggling from the United States were eliminated. Not surprisingly, the Mexican government doesn't say much, if anything, about this aspect of the problem, but for anyone seriously interested in how criminals are getting guns in Mexico, it is important to understand how many guns are coming through each channel instead of just pointing fingers across the border at convenient scapegoats.Rod


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[Texascavers] Causes of the both the 2007 & 2010 Guatemalan sinkholes :

[JerryAtkin]

As many of you that are interested have probably read, there is a lot of  
geo-babble going on as to what is the cause of the recent sinkhole in 
Guatemala.  I've actually read accounts from geologists speculating that it's 
karst 
related  due to the presence of limestone underlying the city (which is 
totally false).  The most reputable explanation that I've seen is the 
following, from a fellow  that helped in the investigation of the 2007 sinkhole 
that 
occurred in Guatemala  City.  The 2007 sinkhole was very similar in form and 
proximity to the 2010  sinkhole and they most likely share a common cause.  
I've also attached a  2007 news report that addresses the cause of the 2007 
sinkhole and references  Haddox's input into the site investigation.
 
 
Eric Haddox says:
_June 5, 2010 at 1:38 am_ 
(http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/117945/guatemala-sinkhole-2010-guatemala-city-pictures-photos-video/comment-page-1/#comment-26846)
 
I was an advisor for the 2007 sinkhole and we had determined that the  
sinkhole was caused by large storm drainage pipes that were far below the  
surface in poorly compacted fill. Possibly seismic activity sheared the  
connection of these collector pipes with a large junction box. This saturation/ 
 
erosion of the soil slowly ate away at the soil and eventually, after a large  
rain the top portion of the ground finally sheared and fell into the already 
 existing cavern. There were already talks that this would happen again but 
what  could really be done about these very old pipes so far under the 
ground and how  can you find a sinkhole developing on the outside of a cracked 
pipe or further  determine the extent of the possible sinkhole. This was 
further complicated by  the nature of Guatemalan government and lack of 
resources to investigate these  kinds of issues. If you look, this hole from 
2010 
looks very similar to the hole  in 2007 and if you look at the location of the 
center of the new sinkhole you  can notice that it is in the middle of the 
road where a manhole would naturally  be. I am not involved in the 
investigation of the 2010 hole but I was living in  Guatemala and present for 
the 
investigation of the 2007 hole. 
Broken stormwater drain led  to Guatemala sinkhole
 
>From Wikinews, the free news source you can  write!
Tuesday, March 6, 2007
 
 
(http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/File:Guatemala_city_sinkhole_2007_composite_view.jpg)
  
 
 
(http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/File:Guatemala_city_sinkhole_2007_composite_view.jpg)
 
Composite  image of the sinkhole, as on March 6, 2007.
Source:Eric  Haddox


A rupture in the underground stormwater drain system opened a huge sinkhole 
 on February 23, killing three people and bringing down twelve houses in  
Guatemala City. 
Teenagers Irma and David Soyos and their father, 53-year old Domingo Soyos  
were killed when their house collapsed into the sinkhole. Nearly a thousand 
 people were evacuated from the San Antonio neighborhood after the 
collapse. 
Wikinews interviewed Eric Haddox, a civil engineer who has visited the site 
 of the sinkhole and spoken to the engineers working on fixing the drain. 
Mr.  Haddox, who specialises in the building of earthworks, roads, water 
supply and  sewage systems, and is working as a missionary in Guatemala, 
visited 
the site  following the collapse to help in the recovery effort. 
Mr. Haddox told us that the size of the hole is much smaller than the 330  
feet depth originally reported and that the erosion causing the collapse is  
believed to have happened over a long time, and not just during the recent 
rains  as initially suspected. 
There are also concerns that a four-story building less  than a metre from 
the edge of the hole may collapse as the earth under the  building continues 
to be eroded.
Trouble brewing over  years
Before the collapse, a junction box linked two collector pipes to a 3.5m 
main  pipe leading to a nearby canyon in a system believed to be 20 to 50 
years old.  The surrounding earth had been filled in artificially to level the 
ground, but  the fill was not well compacted before being built upon. Such 
leveling of the  ground is widespread in Guatemala city. 
It is thought that, at some point in the last 20 years, either one of the  
collector pipes ruptured or was detached from the junction box, possibly 
because  of seismic activity. Water gushing out of the break following 
rainstorms  gradually eroded the loosely compacted soil, creating an expanding 
cavern around  the junction box. On February 23, the roof of this cavern 
collapsed, creating  the sinkhole, 20m wide at the top and tapering out towards 
the 
bottom, which is  about 60m (204 feet) deep, not 330 feet as originally 
reported. 
"Things like this don't happen often and there are many interesting  
engineering lessons to be learned with them", Mr. Haddox said. 
The sinkhole has continued to expand even after the collapse, since the  
collector pipes continue to carry water, which cascades 1

[PBSS] June meeting

[J. LaRue Thomas]

The June meeting of the PBSS will be Tuesday, June 8th. This is not the 
"official" announcement as I wanted to check with folks about who might be 
there, who wants to (or can) run the meeting, and what needs to be 
discussed, brought up, etc.


I will not be there as I start Boy Scouting tomorrow.

Of course, there is Montgomery. The next 5 Mouth will probably be no sooner 
than September (waiting for it to cool off--we can havve one in July but it 
will be pretty darned hot). Fort Stanton Project over the 4th of July is a 
let-John-Corcoran-know if you can be there for part of that and it will be 
fun. S.W. Regional was I guess a good time--folks were at Pinon Cave again.


What else? Jacqui 



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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caveran...@yahoo.com]

FWIW. I didn't say anythng, just thought people who go caving in MX might 
find the article interesting coming from BP people.
 
I live in Del Rio and Cd Acuna is becoming a ghost town (tourist-wise).  A 
restaraunt owner named Manuel was sick of being leaned on by these cartel and 
he now owns "Manuel's" in Del Rio, shut down his restaraunt in Cd Acuna & moved 
it here. Now there are rumors that the f*ck*rs want to bomb Manuel's when it's 
full of people!  Great!
 
I work for the marina on Lake Amistad and possible boat renters are calling 
every day asking about the border situation on the lake, especially since 
Falcon Lake is having issues right now.  Some are even cancelling their 
reservations not wanting to chance it.
 
I used to go to Acuna when friends and family came to visit, plus I had quite a 
bit of dental work done there.  But when my friends' relatives who work for 
homeland security started getting nervous about their friends and family going 
across the border, so did I.  
 
I don't own a gun, but used one when I worked in law enforcement many moons ago.
I don't do any illegal drugs, nor do I even buy anything from the pharmacias in 
MX.  My meds are cheaper through my insurance.  Insurance didn't pay squat for 
dental which is why I went to MX for dental work.  I will not go there now as 
not only am I afraid to go to MX, but I still don't own a passport and probably 
won't, so feel free to blast me over anything I said here.

AM

 

--- On Fri, 6/4/10, cavera...@aol.com  wrote:


From: cavera...@aol.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: pitboun...@gmail.com, fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: wo...@justfamily.org, caveran...@yahoo.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 3:33 PM



Well done to suggest this thread goes to OT, Nico.  This is far more 
interesting and important than Locklear's sharing, but it doesn't have any 
direct bearing on caving.  That's why I made my previous supporting comment 
directly to you.  There I referred to a New York Times story about how guns 
used in Mexican cartel violence were traced to five gun shops in Houston, and 
that I knew four of the five shops - because I had bought guns in each one.  
And out of a group including the big Carter's Country stores the only one that 
lost its Federal firearms license was a literally Mom and Pop, Hispanic-owned 
place on north US 59 called the Father and Son Swap Shop.  They claim to have 
only sold three weapons, while Carter sold dozens.  

Thanks for sharing the German matter.  I'm always interested in such matters of 
history - including pointing out that the Republic of Mexico has lost a lot 
(take Texas, California,etc as we did.) due to the accident of geographical 
proximity with the US that you pointed out.  


Roger Moore





-Original Message-
From: Nico Escamilla 
To: Fritz Holt 
Cc: Charles Goldsmith ; caveran...@yahoo.com 
; Cavetex 
Sent: Fri, Jun 4, 2010 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



Dont get me wrong y'all.. Im pro gun, own several and use them responsibly.. I 
just dont like it when people start ranting about the violence in my neck of 
the woods and how it can start affecting them when they (or their government 
for that matter) are also to blame.
 
Yes, legalizing drugs would really help (that would create a massive public 
health problem but I digress) is it going to happen? not in this lifetime and 
specially not in this continent where the authorities have gotten in bed with 
the drug lords, so to speak.. legalizing will mean that politicians/authorities 
will no longer be able to fill their pockets with bribe money so it'd be like 
slaughtering the cow thats giving you the milk.
 
In short if you wanna blame it on somebody, do it on the germans.. they're the 
ones who started all of this, for those of you that didnt know, they started 
bribing mexican authorities  during WWII to let them smugle drugs into the 
states so that the gringo youth would get hooked on them, why? to make them not 
want to go to war of course...
 
if anyone else feels like continuing this thread, please take it to the OT 
list. I will not respond to it if it comes to cavetex.


  

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caverarch]

Well done to suggest this thread goes to OT, Nico.  This is far more 
interesting and important than Locklear's sharing, but it doesn't have any 
direct bearing on caving.  That's why I made my previous supporting comment 
directly to you.  There I referred to a New York Times story about how guns 
used in Mexican cartel violence were traced to five gun shops in Houston, and 
that I knew four of the five shops - because I had bought guns in each one.  
And out of a group including the big Carter's Country stores the only one that 
lost its Federal firearms license was a literally Mom and Pop, Hispanic-owned 
place on north US 59 called the Father and Son Swap Shop.  They claim to have 
only sold three weapons, while Carter sold dozens.  


Thanks for sharing the German matter.  I'm always interested in such matters of 
history - including pointing out that the Republic of Mexico has lost a lot 
(take Texas, California,etc as we did.) due to the accident of geographical 
proximity with the US that you pointed out. 


Roger Moore





-Original Message-
From: Nico Escamilla 
To: Fritz Holt 
Cc: Charles Goldsmith ; caveran...@yahoo.com 
; Cavetex 
Sent: Fri, Jun 4, 2010 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?


Dont get me wrong y'all.. Im pro gun, own several and use them responsibly.. I 
just dont like it when people start ranting about the violence in my neck of 
the woods and how it can start affecting them when they (or their government 
for that matter) are also to blame.
 
Yes, legalizing drugs would really help (that would create a massive public 
health problem but I digress) is it going to happen? not in this lifetime and 
specially not in this continent where the authorities have gotten in bed with 
the drug lords, so to speak.. legalizing will mean that politicians/authorities 
will no longer be able to fill their pockets with bribe money so it'd be like 
slaughtering the cow thats giving you the milk.
 
In short if you wanna blame it on somebody, do it on the germans.. they're the 
ones who started all of this, for those of you that didnt know, they started 
bribing mexican authorities  during WWII to let them smugle drugs into the 
states so that the gringo youth would get hooked on them, why? to make them not 
want to go to war of course...
 
if anyone else feels like continuing this thread, please take it to the OT 
list. I will not respond to it if it comes to cavetex.
 

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Nico Escamilla]

Dont get me wrong y'all.. Im pro gun, own several and use them responsibly..
I just dont like it when people start ranting about the violence in my neck
of the woods and how it can start affecting them when they (or their
government for that matter) are also to blame.

Yes, legalizing drugs would really help (that would create a massive public
health problem but I digress) is it going to happen? not in this lifetime
and specially not in this continent where the authorities have gotten in bed
with the drug lords, so to speak.. legalizing will mean that
politicians/authorities will no longer be able to fill their pockets with
bribe money so it'd be like slaughtering the cow thats giving you the milk.

In short if you wanna blame it on somebody, do it on the germans.. they're
the ones who started all of this, for those of you that didnt know, they
started bribing mexican authorities  during WWII to let them smugle drugs
into the states so that the gringo youth would get hooked on them, why? to
make them not want to go to war of course...

if anyone else feels like continuing this thread, please take it to the OT
list. I will not respond to it if it comes to cavetex.

Mexican drugs: just say no

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

Man, this topic is like herpes.  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  
Don't buy Mexican drugs.  Don't let your friends buy them, and don't do them if 
offered.  Nancy Reagan was right on this one.
 
Remember when folks were all freaked out about paraquot?  The stuff they are 
selling now is SOAKED IN BLOOD.  That's much worse than paraquot and it won't 
wash off your hands no matter how much you scrub.

Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Fritz Holt]

My sentiments precisely.

Fritz - NRA life member and law abiding citizen.


From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Nico Escamilla
Cc: caveran...@yahoo.com; Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

Those weren't attachments, those were inline links since the email came through 
HTML formatted :)

Governments can't stop guns if bad guys want to get them.  All they can do is 
stop the honest citizen from getting them.

Charles
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Nico Escamilla 
mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

with that behind let me just say a couple things:
first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back to my corner

Nico

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
caveran...@yahoo.com 
mailto:caveran...@yahoo.com>> wrote:




--
Bill
Del Rio, TX

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Fritz Holt]

Whoever initiated this dumb string should have at least put it on OT.

F.


From: cavera...@aol.com [mailto:cavera...@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:56 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

How about back to caving?

<>

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Gill Edigar]

1st, I agree with Nico. Period.
2nd, The whole thing is caused by a demand for illegal drugs in the US.
Without that demand there would be no drug smuggling of any sort.
3rd, the solution is to simply make those drugs legal and put the smugglers
out of business.
4th, instead of executing all illegal drug users we should execute all drug
abusers--of legal or illegal drugs. That would include a whole lot of
geezers who are doing their own personal drug abuse programs and enriching
the big international legal drug cartels. As a lot of those geezers (not all
by any means) are overly conservative and intent on telling other people how
to live righteously we would be better off having them off the voting roles,
as well. Those drug users who are not drug abusers, of course, would be free
to be free. Free to grow their own drugs; free to use their own drugs; free
to do whatever they want so long as they are not abusing their fellow
Americans--be they from North Americans or South Americans.
--Ediger

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM,  wrote:

> How about back to caving?
>
>
> <>
>
>
>
>

texascavers Digest 4 Jun 2010 17:52:33 -0000 Issue 1069

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Jun 2010 17:52:33 - Issue 1069

Topics (messages 14996 through 15006):

Re: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
14996 by: Stefan Creaser
14997 by: Mike Gross
14998 by: Thomas Sitch
14999 by: Sheryl Rieck
15001 by: egelsone.satx.rr.com
15002 by: Stefan Creaser
15003 by: Charles Goldsmith
15004 by: caverarch.aol.com

Re: It goes ?
15000 by: Mark Minton
15005 by: Gill Edigar
15006 by: Stefan Creaser

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
I'm gonna side with Nico :-)

 

From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

 

Fritz

 



From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

 

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com  
wrote:





-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX

 


-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

Nico--

Bravo.
I was about to reply to caverannie and ask her to send the right wing crap 
somewhere else.
In addition to the fact that nearly all weapons in Mexico are from the US 
(among the most intractable problems for Mexican law enforcement), and that 
nearly all demand for illegal drugs is from the US,
there is also the fact -- reported in today's Austin and probably other 
newspapers -- that FBI statistics show that the area of the Mexico border 
is actually safer -- in terms of violent crime -- than many other parts of 
Texas and the country.


Saludos

Mike Gross


At 08:15 AM 6/4/2010 -0700, Stefan Creaser wrote:


Im gonna side with Nico :-)



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



Sounds like a familiar blame game.



Fritz



--
From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?




with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized 
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)


third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining 
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly 
that side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better 
armed because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.




things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer 
in the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.




back to my corner



Nico



On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
caveran...@yahoo.com 
<caveran...@yahoo.com> wrote:






--
Bill
Del Rio, TX



--

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
conte

RE: [Texascavers] Re: It goes ?

[Stefan Creaser]

Surely after a while it's a moot point...

 

If you fall in, and it's deep enough, it's going to hurt when you hit
the bottom.

 

--Stefan

 

From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Gill Edigar
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:50 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: It goes ?

 

I have a vague recollection from the the previous GC sinkhole of a
report that a storm-water relief tunnel had been drilled under the city
in these unconsolidated volcanic ash (which is what is shown in the
photos forming the walls of the sinkhole) and both the tunnel and the
concrete casing were built by the lowest bidder and were failing
offering ingress to storm and sewer water passing down the tectonic
fissures which can also be seen in the walls of the shaft. That could be
completely spurious information but it is what I seem to remember and
would explain the depths of the two pits being (nominally) the same. It
could also be that someone just threw out that number (100 meters being
a nice, round number) and the reporters made it official.

--Ediger

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Mark Minton  wrote:



   Several sources gave the depth of the new sinkhole as 330 feet
(100 meters), the same as the previous one that opened up not far away
in Guatemala City a couple of years ago.  Who knows whether it was
actually measured or they're just guessing, maybe using the same figure
because the two look a lot alike.  These were most likely caused by soil
piping due to leaking water and sewer mains, so they could logically be
the same depth, reaching down to whatever level the water drained away
on.  Given that it looks like the walls are essentially sand, I wouldn't
expect open passage to go very far, or stay open very long.

Mark Minton

At 10:43 PM 6/3/2010, David wrote:



http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/csm
-photo-galleries-images/in-pictures-images/guate-sinkhole/002/8062435-1-
eng-US/002_full_600.jpg

The new Guatemala sinkhole shown above is about 20 meters across, so
the depth to the very bottom looks like 150 meters plus.

There seems to be a canyon down there on top of the breakdown pile, so
that would suggest something.

Anything you rig to could fall off into the sinkhole, or something
could fall and cut the rope.

Maybe a helicopter rappel would be safer?

Would be best to lower a video camera down first.   Right ?


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 

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Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

 


-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.

Re: [Texascavers] Re: It goes ?

[Gill Edigar]

I have a vague recollection from the the previous GC sinkhole of a report
that a storm-water relief tunnel had been drilled under the city in these
unconsolidated volcanic ash (which is what is shown in the photos forming
the walls of the sinkhole) and both the tunnel and the concrete casing were
built by the lowest bidder and were failing offering ingress to storm and
sewer water passing down the tectonic fissures which can also be seen in the
walls of the shaft. That could be completely spurious information but it is
what I seem to remember and would explain the depths of the two pits being
(nominally) the same. It could also be that someone just threw out that
number (100 meters being a nice, round number) and the reporters made it
official.
--Ediger

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Mark Minton  wrote:

>Several sources gave the depth of the new sinkhole as 330 feet (100
> meters), the same as the previous one that opened up not far away in
> Guatemala City a couple of years ago.  Who knows whether it was actually
> measured or they're just guessing, maybe using the same figure because the
> two look a lot alike.  These were most likely caused by soil piping due to
> leaking water and sewer mains, so they could logically be the same depth,
> reaching down to whatever level the water drained away on.  Given that it
> looks like the walls are essentially sand, I wouldn't expect open passage to
> go very far, or stay open very long.
>
> Mark Minton
>
> At 10:43 PM 6/3/2010, David wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/csm-photo-galleries-images/in-pictures-images/guate-sinkhole/002/8062435-1-eng-US/002_full_600.jpg
>>
>> The new Guatemala sinkhole shown above is about 20 meters across, so
>> the depth to the very bottom looks like 150 meters plus.
>>
>> There seems to be a canyon down there on top of the breakdown pile, so
>> that would suggest something.
>>
>> Anything you rig to could fall off into the sinkhole, or something
>> could fall and cut the rope.
>>
>> Maybe a helicopter rappel would be safer?
>>
>> Would be best to lower a video camera down first.   Right ?
>>
>
> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caverarch]

How about back to caving?



<>

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Charles Goldsmith]

Those weren't attachments, those were inline links since the email came
through HTML formatted :)

Governments can't stop guns if bad guys want to get them.  All they can do
is stop the honest citizen from getting them.

Charles

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Nico Escamilla  wrote:

> I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
> asleep or something?
>
> with that behind let me just say a couple things:
> first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
> second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
> (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
> third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
> about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
> side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
> because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.
>
> things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
> the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.
>
> back to my corner
>
> Nico
>
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bill
>> Del Rio, TX
>>
>>
>

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Stefan Creaser]

I think you'll find it's because guns are readily available here, not because 
they are made here.

You can walk into a gun shop here and buy an AK-47, you don’t have to go to 
Romania or China...

Stefan

-Original Message-
From: egels...@satx.rr.com [mailto:egels...@satx.rr.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:24 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com; 'Fritz Holt'; Sheryl Rieck; Stefan 
Creaser
Cc: 'Cavetex'
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

Hey!

Wait a minute Nico, I hear from one side that if it were not for our demand for 
the drugs, there would be no drug war.  The same thing goes for weapons. If the 
drug cartels did not want them (guns), there would be no export business for 
them.

That said, why blame Americans for the guns? We make very few. They come from 
all over world.  The AK 47 is not American made.

Back to lurking..Ed



 Sheryl Rieck  wrote: 
> Okay. I have to pipe in here. I seem to recall the US putting huge pressure
> on Mexico about the war on drugs some number of years ago. Does anyone else
> remember that? Funny that we didn’t have these problems before that? Be
> careful what you wish for or you will surely get it. ;-)
> 
>  
> 
> Sheryl
> 
>  
> 
> From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:16 AM
> To: Fritz Holt; Nico Escamilla; caveran...@yahoo.com
> Cc: Cavetex
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
> Heard?
> 
>  
> 
> I’m gonna side with Nico :-)
> 
>  
> 
> From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
> To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
> Cc: Cavetex
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
> Heard?
> 
>  
> 
> Sounds like a familiar blame game.
> 
>  
> 
> Fritz
> 
>  
> 
>   _  
> 
> From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
> To: caveran...@yahoo.com
> Cc: Cavetex
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
> Heard?
> 
>  
> 
> I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
> asleep or something?
> 
>  
> 
> with that behind let me just say a couple things:
> 
> first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
> 
> second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
> (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
> 
> third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
> about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
> side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
> because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.
> 
>  
> 
> things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
> the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.
> 
>  
> 
> back to my corner
> 
>  
> 
> Nico
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bill
> Del Rio, TX
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> 
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[egelsone]

Hey!

Wait a minute Nico, I hear from one side that if it were not for our demand for 
the drugs, there would be no drug war.  The same thing goes for weapons. If the 
drug cartels did not want them (guns), there would be no export business for 
them.

That said, why blame Americans for the guns? We make very few. They come from 
all over world.  The AK 47 is not American made.

Back to lurking..Ed



 Sheryl Rieck  wrote: 
> Okay. I have to pipe in here. I seem to recall the US putting huge pressure
> on Mexico about the war on drugs some number of years ago. Does anyone else
> remember that? Funny that we didn’t have these problems before that? Be
> careful what you wish for or you will surely get it. ;-)
> 
>  
> 
> Sheryl
> 
>  
> 
> From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:16 AM
> To: Fritz Holt; Nico Escamilla; caveran...@yahoo.com
> Cc: Cavetex
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
> Heard?
> 
>  
> 
> I’m gonna side with Nico :-)
> 
>  
> 
> From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
> To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
> Cc: Cavetex
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
> Heard?
> 
>  
> 
> Sounds like a familiar blame game.
> 
>  
> 
> Fritz
> 
>  
> 
>   _  
> 
> From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
> To: caveran...@yahoo.com
> Cc: Cavetex
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
> Heard?
> 
>  
> 
> I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
> asleep or something?
> 
>  
> 
> with that behind let me just say a couple things:
> 
> first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
> 
> second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
> (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
> 
> third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
> about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
> side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
> because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.
> 
>  
> 
> things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
> the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.
> 
>  
> 
> back to my corner
> 
>  
> 
> Nico
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bill
> Del Rio, TX
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> 
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Re: It goes ?

[Mark Minton]

Several sources gave the depth of the new sinkhole as 330 
feet (100 meters), the same as the previous one that opened up not 
far away in Guatemala City a couple of years ago.  Who knows whether 
it was actually measured or they're just guessing, maybe using the 
same figure because the two look a lot alike.  These were most likely 
caused by soil piping due to leaking water and sewer mains, so they 
could logically be the same depth, reaching down to whatever level 
the water drained away on.  Given that it looks like the walls are 
essentially sand, I wouldn't expect open passage to go very far, or 
stay open very long.


Mark Minton

At 10:43 PM 6/3/2010, David wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/csm-photo-galleries-images/in-pictures-images/guate-sinkhole/002/8062435-1-eng-US/002_full_600.jpg

The new Guatemala sinkhole shown above is about 20 meters across, so
the depth to the very bottom looks like 150 meters plus.

There seems to be a canyon down there on top of the breakdown pile, so
that would suggest something.

Anything you rig to could fall off into the sinkhole, or something
could fall and cut the rope.

Maybe a helicopter rappel would be safer?

Would be best to lower a video camera down first.   Right ?


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Sheryl Rieck]

Okay. I have to pipe in here. I seem to recall the US putting huge pressure
on Mexico about the war on drugs some number of years ago. Does anyone else
remember that? Funny that we didn’t have these problems before that? Be
careful what you wish for or you will surely get it. ;-)

 

Sheryl

 

From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:16 AM
To: Fritz Holt; Nico Escamilla; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?

 

I’m gonna side with Nico :-)

 

From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?

 

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

 

Fritz

 

  _  

From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

 

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com 
wrote:





-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX

 

-- 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
information in any medium.  Thank you.

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Thomas Sitch]

Riight.  Because grenades are readily available in the United States.  I 
buy them at 7-11 all the time so I can run 'em down south.


--- On Fri, 6/4/10, Mike Gross  wrote:


From: Mike Gross 
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: "Stefan Creaser" , "Fritz Holt" 
, caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: "Cavetex" 
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 10:29 AM


Nico--

Bravo. 
I was about to reply to caverannie and ask her to send the right wing crap 
somewhere else. 
In addition to the fact that nearly all weapons in Mexico are from the US 
(among the most intractable problems for Mexican law enforcement), and that 
nearly all demand for illegal drugs is from the US,
there is also the fact -- reported in today's Austin and probably other 
newspapers -- that FBI statistics show that the area of the Mexico border is 
actually safer -- in terms of violent crime -- than many other parts of Texas 
and the country.

Saludos

Mike Gross


At 08:15 AM 6/4/2010 -0700, Stefan Creaser wrote:


Im gonna side with Nico :-)

 

From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

 

Fritz

 



From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Mike Gross]

Nico--

Bravo.
I was about to reply to caverannie and ask her to send the right wing crap 
somewhere else.
In addition to the fact that nearly all weapons in Mexico are from the US 
(among the most intractable problems for Mexican law enforcement), and that 
nearly all demand for illegal drugs is from the US,
there is also the fact -- reported in today's Austin and probably other 
newspapers -- that FBI statistics show that the area of the Mexico border 
is actually safer -- in terms of violent crime -- than many other parts of 
Texas and the country.


Saludos

Mike Gross


At 08:15 AM 6/4/2010 -0700, Stefan Creaser wrote:


Im gonna side with Nico :-)



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



Sounds like a familiar blame game.



Fritz



--
From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?




with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized 
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)


third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining 
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly 
that side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better 
armed because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.




things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer 
in the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.




back to my corner



Nico



On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
caveran...@yahoo.com 
<caveran...@yahoo.com> wrote:






--
Bill
Del Rio, TX



--

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
information in any medium.  Thank you.

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Stefan Creaser]

I'm gonna side with Nico :-)

 

From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

 

Fritz

 



From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

 

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com  
wrote:





-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX

 


-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.

texascavers Digest 4 Jun 2010 15:05:38 -0000 Issue 1068

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Jun 2010 15:05:38 - Issue 1068

Topics (messages 14986 through 14995):

Google - cave related
14986 by: David

Re: more on the mine fatality
14987 by: David

Re: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
14988 by: caverannie.yahoo.com
14992 by: Nico Escamilla
14993 by: SS
14994 by: Nico Escamilla
14995 by: Fritz Holt

drug related
14989 by: Nancy Weaver
14990 by: SS
14991 by: Fritz Holt

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
You can now change the white background of the Google search to a cave scene.

Go to Google.

Click on lower left option "Change Background."

Type cave in the search box, and there is a small selection of caves.

The one below looked good:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uY7Kah2ytyA/SGSD_07z1mI/AlQ/qysb3OTbiK8/s640/DSC04034.JPG

There is also away to add your favorite cave photo or other photo via Picasa.

This is an improvement.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to a news report today, the local sheriff stated:


"the mine is 136 acres inside the mountain and it goes back about a mile."

The reporter also said,

"Two members of a dive team received medical treatment after their skin
began to burn as they searched the stagnant water inside the mine."


Another article stated the mine was owned by the
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---


Just passing this along (from a retired BP agent I know).
See pix of arms confiscated in Moneterrey, NL, MX
AM

--- On Thu, 6/3/10, Bill White  wrote:


From: Bill White wwhit...@gmail.com

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 8:03 PM



Mexico needs help in cleaning up this stuff!!  Rather have the war there than 
here.
 
Bill










Subject: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 3:53 PM



I received the following news article and pictures from my buddy who is a 
retired Border Patrol Intelligence Officer I used to work with.  It's from BNO 
News (Breaking News Now), which is a recently formed Wire Service.  Information 
about them can be found in the following link.
 
http://www.bnonews.com/
 
What's ironic about this, is that the mainstream news media doesn't acknowledge 
that these things are not just happening in Mexico, they're spilling over into 
the United States on a regular basis.
 
Clyde
-
In a message dated 6/1/2010 1:00:24 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
-@gmail.com  writes:




May 12th, 2010 - 5:18 am CT by BNO News - 
 
MONTERREY , MEXICO ( BNO NEWS) — The Mexican Army on Tuesday 
seized a huge drug-cartel weapons cache in the northern state of Nuevo 
Leon, local media reported. 
  
The cache of 130 assault rifles, machine guns, grenades, grenade launchers, 
hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a rocket launcher was seized at a 
ranch in Higueras, northwest of Monterrey , the El Norte newspaper reported. 
  
When the military arrived, a gunfight ensued and one gunman was killed, 
the newspaper added quoting military sources. 
  
An unknown number of gunmen escaped leaving the weapons cache and 
at least 12 SUVs containing military and police accessories. Then read 
the following... and get angr(ier)! 
  
This is the same Mexican border that Obama and all the Anti-Arizona law 
whiners want you to believe is just crossed by "simple men and women 
wanting to 'better' themselves"... 
  
Not only are Iranians, Egyptians, Somalis and numerous other "other than 
Mexican" nationalities apprehended daily by the Border Patrol - but the 
Zetas (made up of police and ex-military special forces members) have 
become stronger and so well armed in the last two years that it is only a 
matter of time before their well-planned violence spills over into our side 
of the border. 
  
This seizure was five days ago.  Exactly where did you hear about it in OUR 
media ? 

(Oh yeah, they're too damn busy beating up on Arizona for doing what EVERY 
state had better do - sooner rather than later - PROTECT THEIR CITIZENS FROM 
ALL ILLEGALS.) 
  
Let's quit trying to decide who is violating our federal laws "to make a better 
life" - and ENFORCE the laws across the board on EVERYONE violating 
them - Nothing discriminatory about that amigos !!! 
  
That way we won't have to lament or wonder just how many of the illegal 
aliens legalized (synonymous with rewarded) under the latest attempt to 
legislate away the millions who have spit on our laws - are MS-13, Zetas, 
cartel members, and other scum that would be "legal". 
  
There are MANY

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Fritz Holt]

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

Fritz


From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

with that behind let me just say a couple things:
first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back to my corner

Nico

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
caveran...@yahoo.com 
mailto:caveran...@yahoo.com>> wrote:




--
Bill
Del Rio, TX

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Nico Escamilla]

yup, yall are exporting alright.. doesnt necesarily mean its good news.

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, SS  wrote:

>  You mean we actually EXPORT something!   This is good news
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
> *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com
> *Cc:* Cavetex
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
> Heard?
>
>
>
> I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
> asleep or something?
>
>
>
> with that behind let me just say a couple things:
>
> first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
>
> second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
> (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
>
> third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
> about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
> side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
> because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.
>
>
>
> things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
> the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.
>
>
>
> back to my corner
>
>
>
> Nico
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Bill
> Del Rio, TX
>
>
>

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[SS]

You mean we actually EXPORT something!   This is good news  

 

  _  

From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

 

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com 
wrote:





-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX

 

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Nico Escamilla]

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
asleep or something?

with that behind let me just say a couple things:
first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back to my corner

Nico

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --
> Bill
> Del Rio, TX
>
>

RE: [Texascavers] drug related

[Fritz Holt]

The death penalty would help the overpopulation problem and would certainly aid 
the mortuary business which already demands ungodly prices. They would be 
making so much money that the feds would want to nationalize them to reap (as 
in reaper)the profits. This from one who has born the expense of burying two 
parents. This geezer hopes to be cremated, but much later.

Fritz



-Original Message-
From: SS [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:25 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] drug related

Excellent observationwe should enact the death penalty for the use of
illegal drugs in America. Of course...that would be like genocide. But it
would solve that pesky carbon footprint problem and open up some jobs. 




-Original Message-
From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 6:58 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] drug related

Of course as the US is the ultimate customer for these drugs and our 
insane drug policies have created these cartels, it seems a bit odd 
to call it Mexico's problem.

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RE: [Texascavers] drug related

[SS]

Excellent observationwe should enact the death penalty for the use of
illegal drugs in America. Of course...that would be like genocide. But it
would solve that pesky carbon footprint problem and open up some jobs. 




-Original Message-
From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 6:58 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] drug related

Of course as the US is the ultimate customer for these drugs and our 
insane drug policies have created these cartels, it seems a bit odd 
to call it Mexico's problem.

-
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



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[Texascavers] drug related

[Nancy Weaver]

Of course as the US is the ultimate customer for these drugs and our 
insane drug policies have created these cartels, it seems a bit odd 
to call it Mexico's problem.


-
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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[Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caveran...@yahoo.com]

Just passing this along (from a retired BP agent I know).
See pix of arms confiscated in Moneterrey, NL, MX
AM

--- On Thu, 6/3/10, Bill White  wrote:


From: Bill White wwhit...@gmail.com

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 8:03 PM



Mexico needs help in cleaning up this stuff!!  Rather have the war there than 
here.
 
Bill










Subject: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 3:53 PM



I received the following news article and pictures from my buddy who is a 
retired Border Patrol Intelligence Officer I used to work with.  It's from BNO 
News (Breaking News Now), which is a recently formed Wire Service.  Information 
about them can be found in the following link.
 
http://www.bnonews.com/
 
What's ironic about this, is that the mainstream news media doesn't acknowledge 
that these things are not just happening in Mexico, they're spilling over into 
the United States on a regular basis.
 
Clyde
-
In a message dated 6/1/2010 1:00:24 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
-@gmail.com  writes:




May 12th, 2010 - 5:18 am CT by BNO News - 
 
MONTERREY , MEXICO ( BNO NEWS) — The Mexican Army on Tuesday 
seized a huge drug-cartel weapons cache in the northern state of Nuevo 
Leon, local media reported. 
  
The cache of 130 assault rifles, machine guns, grenades, grenade launchers, 
hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a rocket launcher was seized at a 
ranch in Higueras, northwest of Monterrey , the El Norte newspaper reported. 
  
When the military arrived, a gunfight ensued and one gunman was killed, 
the newspaper added quoting military sources. 
  
An unknown number of gunmen escaped leaving the weapons cache and 
at least 12 SUVs containing military and police accessories. Then read 
the following... and get angr(ier)! 
  
This is the same Mexican border that Obama and all the Anti-Arizona law 
whiners want you to believe is just crossed by "simple men and women 
wanting to 'better' themselves"... 
  
Not only are Iranians, Egyptians, Somalis and numerous other "other than 
Mexican" nationalities apprehended daily by the Border Patrol - but the 
Zetas (made up of police and ex-military special forces members) have 
become stronger and so well armed in the last two years that it is only a 
matter of time before their well-planned violence spills over into our side 
of the border. 
  
This seizure was five days ago.  Exactly where did you hear about it in OUR 
media ? 

(Oh yeah, they're too damn busy beating up on Arizona for doing what EVERY 
state had better do - sooner rather than later - PROTECT THEIR CITIZENS FROM 
ALL ILLEGALS.) 
  
Let's quit trying to decide who is violating our federal laws "to make a better 
life" - and ENFORCE the laws across the board on EVERYONE violating 
them - Nothing discriminatory about that amigos !!! 
  
That way we won't have to lament or wonder just how many of the illegal 
aliens legalized (synonymous with rewarded) under the latest attempt to 
legislate away the millions who have spit on our laws - are MS-13, Zetas, 
cartel members, and other scum that would be "legal". 
  
There are MANY Hispanic men and women that I both love and respect that 
understand and support Arizona and any citizen's desire to keep our country 
a safe place to live and raise our children and grandchildren. 
  
I hope we can ignore and recognize the majority of the naysayers for the 
photo-op, attention-loving clowns they are - and start coming together as 
AMERICANS that want what's best for AMERICA !!! 
  







 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 



 

 












































































-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX