[Texascavers] Help Virginia Cavers conserve an Ice Age Cheetah.

[Justin Shaw]

Hey y’all, I was just passed this info about a large cat skeleton found by 
cavers last year in Virginia. There is now a chance to help this group of cave 
& karst scientists get some money to properly conserve and display their find, 
by voting for what is *objectively* the coolest artifact out of a list of 
“Virginia’s Top 10 Endangered Artifacts.”

This message is a request for you to consider a vote for Petra, an Ice Age 
cheetah! 

To learn more and cast your vote, visit: https://t.co/uBHZ6mwzW7






Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
coherent manner" 
  - John Trudell___
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[Texascavers] Dead Dog Caves Report

[Justin Shaw]

Greetings everyone,

I just tried to send The Dead Dog Caves Report to the list as an
attachment, but it hung awaiting moderator approval.

A copy can also be found at this Google Drive link.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MHCopJAcxdMbE_Vpo2lcK7rhqoYoK48r/view?usp=drivesdk

Because this report was done in a rush, it is designated provisional. As
new information is attained the report will be updated.

Because of the immediacy of the issue, please feel free to distribute it to
anyone you feel needs this information.

If you wish to share my contact information with a non-Caver, please direct
them to: justinleighs...@gmail.com

Cheers,
Justin





Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text


"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
and coherent manner"
  - John Trudell
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Re: [Texascavers] Dead Dog Cave development

[Justin Shaw]

Thank you so much for running that query and posting the results so quickly. I 
was able to find all those issues on the Karst Information Portal. 
Disappointingly, I had previously used the search feature on the KIP site and 
only located 4 issues. I repeated the query yesterday with the same results. 
🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️ You will be included in the acknowledgments. 




Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
coherent manner" 
  - John Trudell

> On Aug 16, 2021, at 19:45, William R. Elliott  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Justin and all,
> 
> I just made a search of all Texas Caver issues, digital format, and found 
> these hits, below. I edited and pasted the first one from 1963, which refers 
> to the gating of Dead Dog Cave. I thought I would post these results with 
> delay, and perhaps others can go through these issues for more details.
> 
> By the way, I use the free Windows program, DocFetcher, which can quickly 
> search large collections of files that one has previously processed and 
> indexed in the program. I can also search most of the AMCS pubs, NSS News, 
> some of the JCKMS indices, and Mundos Subterraneos for any word or phrase. 
> 
> If you need more help, please let me know.
> 
> Thanks, good luck with conservation efforts,
> 
> William R. (Bill) Elliott
> 
> 30105 Briarcrest Court
> 
> Georgetown, Texas 78628
> 
> speodes...@gmail.com
> 
> 573-291-5093 cell
> 
> 
> Texas Caver References to Dead Dog Cave(s)
>  
> 1963  TexasCaver_1963-v08-n11.pdf
> 1965  TexasCaver_1965-v10-n07.pdf
> 1966  TexasCaver_1966-v11-n03.pdf
> 1968  TexasCaver_1968-v13-n09.pdf
> 1969  TexasCaver_1969-v14-n02.pdf
> 1969  TexasCaver_1969-v14-n06.pdf
> 1970  TexasCaver_1970-v15-n12.pdf
> 1973  TexasCaver_1973-v18-n08.pdf
> 1973  TexasCaver_1973-v18-n12.pdf
> 1974  TexasCaver_1974-v19-n05.pdf
> 1974  TexasCaver_1974-v19-n09.pdf
> 1975  TexasCaver_1975-v20-n05.pdf
> 1975  TexasCaver_1975-v20-n08.pdf
> 1976  TexasCaver_1976-v21-n04.pdf
> 1976  TexasCaver_1976-v21-n11.pdf
> 1976  TexasCaver_1976-v21-n12.pdf
> 1978  TexasCaver_1978-v23-n04.pdf
> 1984  TexasCaver_1984-v29-n04.pdf
> 1984  TexasCaver_1984-v29-n06.pdf
> 1985  TexasCaver_1985-v30-n04.pdf
> 2005  TexasCaver_2005-12-01.pdf
>  
> The Texas Caver, November 1963, 8(11):111.
>  
> ''What a wonderful convention!"
> was the consensus on the Seventh Annual
> Region Convention held at Southwestern
> University in Georgetown, November
> 2-3. It combined the best of business meet-
> ings, convention papers, and field
> trips. Fifty-seven registered for the
> two-day session, the greatest number we
> have had at a convention since 1957. We
> hope this will be the beginning of an
> upward trend.
> The 7:00 AM Board of Governors
> meeting saw representatives from Abil-
> ene Grotto, Dallas-Fort Worth Grotto,
> UT Grotto, Southwestern Speleological
> Society, Balcones Grotto, and San Ang-
> elo College Caving Club. The
> Conservation Committee reported on details of
> the gating of Dead Dog Cave in Austin.
> The suggestion was offered that each
> grotto submit one article on conserva-
> tion with black and white pictures to
> be offered to county newspapers in the
> caving areas. Each article could be
> sent at monthly intervals to each paper.
> The conservation committee is compiling
> a list of landowners who are not will-
> ing to admit cavers, to keep those who
> may hear of leads on these properties
> from making a long drive for nothing.
> Representatives were asked to remind
> their grottoes that it is important to
> honor the promises of maps and pictures
> made to ranchers. They are understand-
> ingly irritated when these products do
> not arrive…
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:27 PM Justin Shaw  wrote:
>> Terry, those pics are of tremendous historical value. Thank you for posting 
>> them. Did you take them? 
>> 
>> I am working to quickly pull together a report including as much information 
>> as possible about the Dead Dog Caves. I would like to include those pics in 
>> the report, with appropriate credit.
>> 
>> Also, the picture of the beautiful natural entrance seems a much better 
>> match to the TSS records descriptions of the entrance to Dead Dog Cave No. 
>> 1, and not so much matching descriptions of Dead Dog Cave No. 2. How does 
>> that jive with your memory?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Justin 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Justin Leigh Shaw
>> 
>> jus...@oztotl.net
>> 
>> 512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & 

Re: [Texascavers] Dead Dog Cave development

[Justin Shaw]

Terry, those pics are of tremendous historical value. Thank you for posting 
them. Did you take them? 

I am working to quickly pull together a report including as much information as 
possible about the Dead Dog Caves. I would like to include those pics in the 
report, with appropriate credit.

Also, the picture of the beautiful natural entrance seems a much better match 
to the TSS records descriptions of the entrance to Dead Dog Cave No. 1, and not 
so much matching descriptions of Dead Dog Cave No. 2. How does that jive with 
your memory?

Thanks,
Justin 




Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
coherent manner" 
  - John Trudell

> On Aug 15, 2021, at 19:52, Terry  wrote:
> 
> Yes Heather,
> 
> When I first went to this Dead Dog #2, this cave was ‘way out in the country’,
> and a quicker trip than Steam Cave.
> 
> Here is Tommy Phillips at the beautiful natural entrance,
> then a photo later after we put a manhole gate on it to stop the traffic
> 
> Dead Dog #2 was the biggest/deepest of the caves on this property as I 
> remember.
> 
> Hope this helps,  Terry
> 
> 
> <6406#36 Dead Dog#2 Phillips.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 15, 2021, at 7:14 PM, Heather Tucek  wrote:
>> 
>> Last minute notice from the TSA Conservation Committee:
>> 
>> Development is being proposed at the site of the now closed Luby's 
>> Restaurant on Mopac Expressway in Austin. There are several caves under the 
>> site collectively referred to as the “Dead Dog Caves”. It is possible that 
>> these caves will be filled in during construction. The City Zoning and 
>> Planning Commission is having a meeting on Tuesday August 17th and this 
>> development is on the agenda. Citizens can apply to speak at this meeting 
>> via phone so anyone with extensive knowledge of these caves should consider 
>> making some remarks. Anyone can watch the meeting remotely.
>> 
>> Link to the Meeting:
>> http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=365503
>> Sign up by noon Monday, August 16 to be able to speak with the 
>> representatives:
>> http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=365503
>> Information about the site and permit:
>> http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=365455
>> 
>> -- 
>> Go find out!
>> -Heather Tuček
>> TSA Membership Chair
>> NSS 59660
>> (512) 773-1348
>> members...@cavetexas.org
>> 
>> ___
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> 
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[Texascavers] The Dead Dog Caves

[Justin Shaw]

I am working to quickly pull together a report including as much information as 
possible about the Dead Dog Caves near Steck and Mopac.

If anyone has any information that is not otherwise available, or can elaborate 
on what is already publicly known, I would appreciate if you could pass that 
information my way as quickly as possible.

Any reports, stories, or other information that can be pinned to a specific 
year is especially helpful.

Photographs would be incredibly useful.

One seemingly easy to answer question that has turned enigmatic is when exactly 
the Luby’s was actually constructed. Deed records show them purchasing the 
property in 1977, however a 1981 areal photograph shows the site cleared but no 
building yet constructed. Anyone have a reference for the year they built that 
Luby’s?

I will post to CaveTex a provisional report tomorrow by 1:00 pm.

Thanks,
Justin 




Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
coherent manner" 
  - John Trudell___
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[Texascavers] Lechuguilla 150 Symposium

[Justin Shaw]

Please find attached the schedule for the Lechuguilla 150 symposium on Saturday, Nov 14 and Sunday, Nov 15. They are publishing the schedule in the upcoming NSS News; however, with the current mail issues, this information may be delayed.  To prevent Zoom bombing, they are asking those interested in attending to register in advance: Saturday, Nov 14 – ExplorationWhen: Nov 14, 2020 08:30 AM Mountain Time (US and Canada) To register, go to:  https://bit.ly/35S1W7k  Sunday, Nov 15 – ScienceWhen: Nov 15, 2020 08:30 AM Mountain Time (US and Canada) To register, go to: https://bit.ly/33KSRub

cid:01E56BC5-2D87-4751-93B2-424EB40A774D.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
Justin Leigh Shawjus...@oztotl.net512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and coherent manner"       - John Trudell___
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[Texascavers] Fortified Well Water Cartoon

[Justin Shaw]

I’m looking for an an old “cartoon” showing a cross section of Karst below a 
family’s homestead; complete with the outhouse and trash filled sinkhole 
leaching into the aquifer below, with its connection to the family’s well. 

One character is asking another to dump some refuse and bring them back some 
“fortified well water.”

Anyone have a copy of this cartoon ? 




Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
coherent manner" 
  - John Trudell___
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[Texascavers] Caver Garage Sale this Saturday in ATX

[Justin Shaw]

Large Garage Sale this Saturday, July 20

starts at 7am

300 Mockingbird Ln W, Austin, TX 78745

https://goo.gl/maps/ScKKd1jehAuvwauY6

We are liquidating the remaining belongings of Lee Jay Graves. This is
mostly all stuff he had stored in a climate controlled storage unit
for many years - so it’s not a bunch of junk. There’s a lot of stuff,
it mostly fills a 10x15 unit.

Over two dozen boxes of household goods plus several of camping gear,
army surplus, and many more of “maker” items too.

Cavers - name your price, no reasonable offers refused; heck, some
unreasonable offers may be accepted.

We will be donating the proceeds to the Underground Texas Grotto.

Also, If you have good stuff you want to be rid of, with proceeds
going to UTG, you can arrange to drop it off Friday and we’ll sell it
Saturday.






Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative,
clear and coherent manner"
  - John Trudell
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Re: [Texascavers] More selfies from Cookeville

[Justin Shaw]

https://support.google.com/photos/answer/6131416?hl=en&ref_topic=6128855&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid&oco=2

See the section titled: Send a link or share to other apps




> On Jun 18, 2019, at 08:01, David  wrote:
> 
> 2nd try 
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/d4XaNfHEavbrffS19
> 
> Dropbox is so much more user friendly than Google Photos.  I do not see where 
> you set the file permissions.
> ___
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[Texascavers] June 19 Underground Texas Grotto Meeting

[Justin Shaw]

We meet again this coming Wednesday, June 19th at 7:30 pm at The High Road on 
Dawson - 700 Dawson Road, Austin, TX 78704, off Barton Springs Road. Please, no 
outside food or beverages. They have happy hours from 5-7 pm for $2-$3 beers, 
otherwise beer is $3-$4 and a burger with fries is $5. Arrive early to order!
You don't need to be a member of the UT Grotto to attend this presentation - 
you can learn how to become a member at the meeting, if that interests you. 
You can also learn about more caving opportunities locally, and throughout the 
world.

Nico Hauwert will be our featured speaker for the evening, with a presentation 
called “How Cavers Saved Austin and the Balcones Canyonland Preserve”. ___
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Re: [Texascavers] CoA William Cave Resolution Passed

[Justin Shaw]

Yes, but no need to be there before 5:30. 

Enter parking garage from Guadalupe. Guadalupe is one way - Southbound. Park on 
levels P1 or P2 for free - bring your ticket inside for validation.


> On Jun 6, 2019, at 14:36, Bob Burnett  wrote:
> 
> Are we still meeting at the City of Austin Council at 5:00???
>  
> 
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[Texascavers] CoA William Cave Resolution Passed

[Justin Shaw]

Good Morning Cavers,

I have fantastic news to share with you on this William H. Russel Austin Cave 
Heritage Day:

The resolution which was on today’s Austin City Council agenda as item#: 48 has 
passed 🎉  

Approve a resolution directing the City Manager to initiate proceedings under 
City Code Section 14-1-39 renaming the Blowing Sink Research Management Area to 
the William H. Russell Karst Preserve, to develop a land management plan for 
the tract, to prepare a report on existing cave and karst feature projects and 
programs and a memorandum of understanding between relevant departments 
addressing cave restoration and water quality monitoring for caves on 
City-owned land.

There is still a process that shall be followed for the renaming to become in 
effect. I’ll keep everyone appraised of progress as I know of it.

Addressing our request for the City of Austin to engage the local caving 
community as the most knowledgeable stakeholders in further exploration and 
documentation of its karst resources is language directing the various City 
departments involved in cave management to work together with steakholders - 
that’s us cavers - and report back in October of this year and January of next. 
I am very optimistic that this process will be fruitful. I will keep everyone 
updated as this process proceeds, particularly when there are opportunities for 
Cavers to speak up and be heard. 

Thank you to everyone who supported the petition. 

The smell of victory is in the air. 




Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
coherent manner" 
  - John Trudell___
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[Texascavers] June 6 2019 is William H. Russell Austin Cave Heritage Day

[Justin Shaw]

June 6 2019 is William H. Russell Austin Cave Heritage Day by Proclamation of 
the Austin City Council.

The proclamation will be presented by the Mayor at a ceremony in City Hall 
beginning at 5:30pm on June 6.

Cavers are encouraged to attend and wear your helmet. We are asked to sign in 
by 5:15.

Some of us will be gathering in the ish of 4:30 at the Austin Java located in 
the City Hall building. 

From Clerk’s office:

The City Council meeting is in the Council Chamber at City Hall, which is at 
301 West 2nd Street, between Lavaca and Guadalupe. You may park in the public 
area of our underground parking garage; the entrance is on the west (Guadalupe) 
side of the building; you may park on the P1 or P2 level. When you enter the 
building, security staff will be at a table in front of the Council Chamber, 
and will validate your parking ticket, so parking won’t cost you anything. The 
Proclamations section of the Council meeting will be announced by the Mayor, 
beginning no earlier than 5:30 p.m. on Thursday, June 6th.
 
Please arrive by 5:15 to check in with the Proclamations Coordinator for final 
instructions and arrangements; she will be at a table outside the Council 
Chamber.

In a fitting universe coalescence June 6th is also National Cave and Karst Day, 
a holiday began in 2017 by the National Caves Association which is the national 
Show Cave Owners Association http://cavern.com/Learn/cavesday.asp

~ ~ ~ ~

Having a William H. Russell Austin Cave Heritage Day was only one point to the 
change dot org petition which led to this proclamation. In an effort to address 
the rest of the petition there is a resolution (item#: 48) on the consent 
agenda for the June 6 Council Meeting. 

It seeks to make good on our petition request to rename the Blowing Sink 
Research Management Area as the William H. Russell Karst Preserve and engage 
the local caving community as the most knowledgeable stakeholders in further 
exploration and documentation of its karst resources.

The text can be found at:
https://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=320262

If you live in Austin please consider writing your council member in support of 
agenda item#: 48 on the June 6th City Council Agenda. If you don’t live in 
Austin but are of distinguished status/title then a letter of support from you 
would also be influential. 

The Resolution was drafted through and is sponsored by the Office of Council 
Member Ann Kitchen and is also being sponsored by Council Member Paige Ellis, 
Council Member Kathie Tovo, Council Member Alison Alter, Council Member Leslie 
Pool. That’s half of Austin's City Council ! 

If your district is one of these council members, PLEASE THANK THEM 

If you don’t know who’s district your in, use the District Lookup Tool here:
http://www.austintexas.gov/government

That same page has this link to email all City Council members: 
http://www.austintexas.gov/email/all-council-members 

Beyond urging support of the 6/6 agenda item#: 48  and/or giving thanks, it 
would be good for cavers to emphasize that what William did is what Cavers do 
and it is important and needs to continue. This will help make sure City 
Council will see value in us cavers and allow Williams legacy to move forward 
through continued cave excavation, exploration, documentation, and research. 

I wrote up some talking points on that last point, and put them in a Google 
Drive along with some various potential resources from his archives and google 
searches: 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VrBxHv_kFfwbnhcl7xvl-1fyAJ_e_bUH



Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
coherent manner" 
  - John Trudell___
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[Texascavers] Contacting Me

[Justin Shaw]

I understand quite a few people have been trying to contact me recently, and 
only those emailing me are getting through my phone is out for about 
another week, so if you want to reach me: jus...@oztotl.net it is. 

Honestly, throughout my entire life my relationship with phones is tenuous at 
best, so use email anytime you really need to reach me.

Justin Leigh Shaw
jus...@oztotl.net




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Re: [Texascavers] The New and Improved UTG

[Justin Shaw]

We will have a PayPal setup shortly.



> On Dec 3, 2018, at 22:42, Julia Germany  wrote:
> 
> For those of us who no longer live in (or near) Austin, how can we pay our 
> dues?
>  
> Julia G Germany
> 
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Vivian Loftin
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 16:34
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The New and Improved UTG
>  
> Thanks for keeping us compliant with the details, Denise. I see this form 
> asks what info we want made public. How public are we talking? You mean paper 
> lists handed out at grotto meetings only? or a searchable public database? or 
> a members-only, password protected page?
> just checking,
> Viv
> 
> On Nov 16, 2018, at 8:55 PM, Denise P  wrote:
> 
> Greetings Cavers and Caver-like Persons,
>  
> With the rebirth of the Underground Texas Grotto (UTG) as an official 
> organization with IRS 501(c)(3) status, we are inviting those who wish to be 
> members to officially join the new organization. To be assured of full 
> compliance with all interested parties, we are NOT importing any membership 
> information from our previous incarnation. 
> 
> You can join by filling out this Google Form:
>  
> https://goo.gl/forms/UndMeFNq5DbmD3bp1
>  
> Dues are still paid directly to our Treasurer (me), in cash and in person. 
> They are $2 for new members and $10 for all others.
>  
> Cheers,
> Denise Prendergast
> UTG Secretary/Treasurer
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] Lee Jay Memorial details

[Justin Shaw]

Oops, forgot to include the location in the text:


Camp Ben McCulloch
18301 Farm to Market Rd 1826, Driftwood, TX 78619
https://goo.gl/maps/uf6KpdLKBdA2



> On Nov 28, 2018, at 21:21, Justin Shaw  wrote:
> 
> Friends of Lee Jay, we will gather this Saturday, December 1st to celebrate 
> his extraordinary life, which we were so fortunate to share with him. 
> 
> Please join Lee Jay’s extended caver family in the sharing of a meal and some 
> stories, for reverence of a man who left an indelible mark on the Texas 
> Caving world. 
> 
> A roast pig and beverages will be provided. Guests are welcome to bring 
> family-style potluck side dishes. This is a leave-no-trace event! Bring a 
> reusable plate, utensils and cup along with your camp chair. 
> 
> If you have pictures we would love to show them. Please send them to 
> ljp...@oztotl.net
> 
> Questions? Email “ ljw...@oztotl.net “ or text Justin at 512-593-2283
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tl;dr
> 
> This Saturday 3pm - 7pm at Camp Ben McCulloch 
> Roast Pig provided, pot-luck style side dishes encouraged
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[Texascavers] Lee Jay Memorial details

[Justin Shaw]

Friends of Lee Jay, we will gather this Saturday, December 1st to celebrate his 
extraordinary life, which we were so fortunate to share with him. 

Please join Lee Jay’s extended caver family in the sharing of a meal and some 
stories, for reverence of a man who left an indelible mark on the Texas Caving 
world. 

A roast pig and beverages will be provided. Guests are welcome to bring 
family-style potluck side dishes. This is a leave-no-trace event! Bring a 
reusable plate, utensils and cup along with your camp chair. 

If you have pictures we would love to show them. Please send them to 
ljp...@oztotl.net

Questions? Email “ ljw...@oztotl.net “ or text Justin at 512-593-2283





tl;dr

This Saturday 3pm - 7pm at Camp Ben McCulloch 
Roast Pig provided, pot-luck style side dishes encouraged
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Re: [Texascavers] The New and Improved UTG

[Justin Shaw]

Viv and all others who are curious,Valid question. Printing a listing of everyone’s information, as we have always done, is a pretty big privacy liability unless you call it what it is: public. To better clarify what that means takes quite a few more words, and so it makes sense for our Grotto to adopt a privacy policy that clearly explains it. Also, with a future that looks to continue to digitize, we have included language to safeguard online distribution. This is the proposed privacy policy, which is pending approval by a vote of the Grotto at our next meeting. 

Privacy Policy.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
On Nov 21, 2018, at 16:34, Vivian Loftin  wrote:Thanks for keeping us compliant with the details, Denise. I see this form asks what info we want made public. How public are we talking? You mean paper lists handed out at grotto meetings only? or a searchable public database? or a members-only, password protected page?just checking,VivOn Nov 16, 2018, at 8:55 PM, Denise P  wrote:
















Greetings Cavers and Caver-like Persons,




With the rebirth of the Underground Texas Grotto (UTG) as an official organization with IRS 501(c)(3) status, we are inviting those who wish to be members to officially join the new organization. To be assured of full compliance with
 all interested parties, we are NOT importing any membership information from our previous incarnation. 


You can join by filling out this Google Form:


https://goo.gl/forms/UndMeFNq5DbmD3bp1



Dues are still paid directly to our Treasurer (me), in cash and in person. They are $2 for new members and $10 for all others.


Cheers,
Denise Prendergast
UTG Secretary/Treasurer

































































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Re: [Texascavers] Lee Jay in hospital

[Justin Shaw]

At 9:15 this morning, Lee Jay Graves moved on to his next big adventure. Mimi, 
myself, and two of his sisters were there to pass on everyone's warm regards 
and wish him well on this new journey. Lee Jay held a fascination for the world 
that drove his thirst for knowledge and attention to detail, and he touched the 
lives of many with his kindness and conversation. We will miss you, friend.
In celebration of our great times with LJ, we will have an impromptu gathering 
around a fire tonight at the Ediger compound on Mockingbird. Fire starts at 
sunset (7:11). Please park on the road.
In his honor, there will also be a caver-style celebration of Lee Jay's life 
and times on the 1st of December (that's next Saturday, folks). Details coming 
soon.




> On Nov 23, 2018, at 19:33, Justin Shaw  wrote:
> 
> Lee Jay Graves has suffered a massive stroke with subarachnoid bleeding. His 
> condition continues to deteriorate and he is not expected to recover. 
> 
> If you would like to visit him he is at the main St. David’s hospital on 32nd 
> St. here in Austin. He is on the 5th floor, room 555. Nurses recommend coming 
> tonight or early tomorrow. There are no restrictions on visiting hours. 
> Though he seems unresponsive, the sense of hearing is often the last to go. 
> 
> His family is aware, and his sisters are in route and expected to arrive 
> tonight or early tomorrow morning.
> 
> If you would like details, I’m willing to talk on the phone. 512-593-2283
> 
> With Love,
>Justin
> 
> 
> 
> (apologies for such a heavy post, however when you’ve touched as many lives 
> as LJ did, there’s too many people who’ll want to be in the loop for me to 
> even think of everyone, much less directly contact everyone)
> 
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[Texascavers] Lee Jay in hospital

[Justin Shaw]

Lee Jay Graves has suffered a massive stroke with subarachnoid bleeding. His 
condition continues to deteriorate and he is not expected to recover. 

If you would like to visit him he is at the main St. David’s hospital on 32nd 
St. here in Austin. He is on the 5th floor, room 555. Nurses recommend coming 
tonight or early tomorrow. There are no restrictions on visiting hours. Though 
he seems unresponsive, the sense of hearing is often the last to go. 

His family is aware, and his sisters are in route and expected to arrive 
tonight or early tomorrow morning.

If you would like details, I’m willing to talk on the phone. 512-593-2283

With Love,
Justin



(apologies for such a heavy post, however when you’ve touched as many lives as 
LJ did, there’s too many people who’ll want to be in the loop for me to even 
think of everyone, much less directly contact everyone)

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[Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting 11/21 7:30pm

[Justin Shaw]

Greetings Cavers,
Sorry about the late announcement, email list complications.

We will meet again this Wednesday the 21st at 7:30pm at The High Road on Dawson 
- 700 Dawson Road, Austin, TX 78704, off Barton Springs Road.  Please, no 
outside food or beverages.  They have happy hours from 5-7pm for $2-$3 beers, 
otherwise beer is $3-$4 and a burger with fries is $5.  Arrive early to order!  
http://thehighroadondawson.com/

Our speaker this week will be Mr. Drew Thompson, a cave specialist working for 
the City of Austin's Balcones Canyonlands Preserve.  He will share the story of 
5 caves in South Austin that have been excavated and restored to create 
underground classrooms.  

Happy Thanksgiving!
Patty Calabrese
Underground Texas Grotto Vice Chair
www.utgrotto.org





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[Texascavers] UTG attains 501(c)(3) status !

[Justin Shaw]

Good afternoon,

It is my pleasure to announce that the IRS has granted 501(c)(3) tax exempt 
status to the Underground Texas Grotto. 

This is our key to securing a new permanent meeting location, which our 
Location Committee Chair, Mimi Alexander, has been hard at work on since our 
search began. Several wonderful potential accommodations have been located 
which require tax-exempt status.

Once we’re in our new digs, I’ll give a talk about the process, and the minor 
changes required to meet NSS and IRS requirements. 

Justin Shaw
Underground Texas Grotto, Incorporation Committee Chair 


512-593-2283
jus...@oztotl.net

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Re: [Texascavers] Any good news ?

[Justin Shaw]

It is being reported that a "rescue operation" is underway with 18 divers
entering the caves. There are many reports with conflicting details.
Apparently the media has been ejected from the site, so expect the rumor
mill to go into overdrive.


Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net


"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
and coherent manner"
  - John Trudell

On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 10:50 PM, Justin Shaw  wrote:

> Presumably there is a mini-sub currently about an hour into a 17 hour
> flight from LA to Thailand. Today, Elon Musk was in LA working with the
> SpaceX team building the kid mini-sub. About 9 hours ago he tweeted
> "Construction complete in about 8 hours, then 17 hour flight to Thailand."
>
> Elon also has a team on the Ground in Thailand which is working directly
> with the "cave experts" and the Thai government. He is iterating with the
> cave experts on the mini-sub design while also building an inflatable tube
> with airlocks. The tube is thought to be "less likely to work, given tricky
> contours, but great if it does."
>
> The mini-sub is being built using the liquid oxygen transfer tube of
> Falcon rocket as its hull. Light enough to be carried by 2 divers, small
> enough to get through narrow gaps. Extremely robust. The design includes 4
> handles/hitch points on front & 4 on rear. 2 air tank connections on front
> & 2 on rear, allowing 1 to 4 tanks simultaneously connected, all recessed
> for impact protection with secondary cap seal if leak develops. Elon says
> it is confirmed to maneuver through even the most narrow passages. For
> buoyancy control the mini-sub is fitted for a kid or small adult to
> minimize open air, with segmented compartments to place rocks or dive
> weights & adjust buoyancy.
>
> Too bad we don't yet have BFR earth to earth transport. Then the mini-sub
> could get from LA to Thailand in under an hour.
>
>
> Justin Leigh Shaw
>
> jus...@oztotl.net
>
> "we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
> and coherent manner"
>   - John Trudell
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 8:09 PM, David  wrote:
>
>> As of 8 p.m. on Saturday, June 7th, I have seen nothing to confirm the
>> extraction of the boys has commenced.
>>
>> Just hearsay of rumors that non-essential personnel have been moved back
>> further from the command center.
>>
>> There was a rumor that the authorities could not find children-size
>> wet-suits.
>>
>> One report says the first sumps are free of deep water and the boys could
>> walk out of those.
>>
>> The Thai news has been focused on the funeral and I think a boat
>> capsizing along with the usual crime and religous / political news.
>>
>> I assume rescuers are sleeping now and regenerating their energy for a
>> big push in the morning their time.
>>
>> Lots of assumptions and hearsay for an international-level news story,
>> but the language and cultural barrier has a lot to do with it.
>>
>> D.L.
>>
>>
>> P.S.
>>
>> If anybody would like to talk privately about the logistics of driving to
>> the NSS Convention, I am only fantasizing about going, but certain that I
>> wont do it.
>>
>> I do not think anybody in my shoes would drive it from Houston.
>>
>> I could possibly lose $ 1,000 of income, which I sorely need at the
>> moment.  However, it is also just as likely that I will be unemployed that
>> week.   It is the same problem I have had every year at Convention time
>> since I became interested in going in 1994.
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Any good news ?

[Justin Shaw]

Presumably there is a mini-sub currently about an hour into a 17 hour
flight from LA to Thailand. Today, Elon Musk was in LA working with the
SpaceX team building the kid mini-sub. About 9 hours ago he tweeted
"Construction complete in about 8 hours, then 17 hour flight to Thailand."

Elon also has a team on the Ground in Thailand which is working directly
with the "cave experts" and the Thai government. He is iterating with the
cave experts on the mini-sub design while also building an inflatable tube
with airlocks. The tube is thought to be "less likely to work, given tricky
contours, but great if it does."

The mini-sub is being built using the liquid oxygen transfer tube of Falcon
rocket as its hull. Light enough to be carried by 2 divers, small enough to
get through narrow gaps. Extremely robust. The design includes 4
handles/hitch points on front & 4 on rear. 2 air tank connections on front
& 2 on rear, allowing 1 to 4 tanks simultaneously connected, all recessed
for impact protection with secondary cap seal if leak develops. Elon says
it is confirmed to maneuver through even the most narrow passages. For
buoyancy control the mini-sub is fitted for a kid or small adult to
minimize open air, with segmented compartments to place rocks or dive
weights & adjust buoyancy.

Too bad we don't yet have BFR earth to earth transport. Then the mini-sub
could get from LA to Thailand in under an hour.


Justin Leigh Shaw

jus...@oztotl.net

"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
and coherent manner"
  - John Trudell


On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 8:09 PM, David  wrote:

> As of 8 p.m. on Saturday, June 7th, I have seen nothing to confirm the
> extraction of the boys has commenced.
>
> Just hearsay of rumors that non-essential personnel have been moved back
> further from the command center.
>
> There was a rumor that the authorities could not find children-size
> wet-suits.
>
> One report says the first sumps are free of deep water and the boys could
> walk out of those.
>
> The Thai news has been focused on the funeral and I think a boat capsizing
> along with the usual crime and religous / political news.
>
> I assume rescuers are sleeping now and regenerating their energy for a big
> push in the morning their time.
>
> Lots of assumptions and hearsay for an international-level news story, but
> the language and cultural barrier has a lot to do with it.
>
> D.L.
>
>
> P.S.
>
> If anybody would like to talk privately about the logistics of driving to
> the NSS Convention, I am only fantasizing about going, but certain that I
> wont do it.
>
> I do not think anybody in my shoes would drive it from Houston.
>
> I could possibly lose $ 1,000 of income, which I sorely need at the
> moment.  However, it is also just as likely that I will be unemployed that
> week.   It is the same problem I have had every year at Convention time
> since I became interested in going in 1994.
>
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>
>
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[Texascavers] Latest media briefing from the British Cave Rescue Council

[Justin Shaw]

Here’s the latest media briefing from the British Cave Rescue Council. You can 
find this, and previous briefings on their web page: 
http://www.caverescue.org.uk

MEDIA BRIEFING NOTE – 2 July 2018 - SUPPLEMENT
Breakthrough in the cave search and rescue operation in Tham Luang Nang Non 
Cave, Thailand
This is the third media briefing and second issued today following the 
wonderful news that the missing boys and their football coach have been located 
underground. This additional media briefing follows on from one circulated by 
BCRC on 28 June 2018 and earlier today (BCRC website: 
http://www.caverescue.org.uk/). This briefing reports on the success of the 
search phase of the operation in Chiang Rai province and explains some of the 
considerable challenges as the activity of the operation shifts to ‘rescue’ of 
the boys from the cave.
Please note that it remains BCRC policy not to confirm the names of the British 
cave rescuers, even though names have been stated in various media reports. We 
make a plea that the privacy of the British cave divers is respected, to allow 
them to rest properly in anticipation of long, hazardous dives during each day.
Update for teams and media compiled 20.00h BST, Monday 2 July 2018
Around 16:30h this afternoon, we started to receive the remarkable news that 
all 12 of the boys and their coach had been located in a dry air space south of 
the Pattaya Beach area of Tham Luang Nang Non Cave. It is estimated that they 
are around 200 m south of that underground landmark.
Shortly after this news, we received a direct (but short confirmation) from our 
British cave divers of the joyful news that the lost boys had been located 
alive. Video footage of the boys and their coach has now been released and 
shown to families waiting on the surface.
Two British, volunteer cave divers found the boys at their current location, 
but the last 36 hours have seen a coordinated and planned approach to the 
rescue being led by the Thai Military and involving many other nations 
(including the USA, Chinese, Australians and others). Equipment and air 
supplies have been ferried in to the system over the last day or so, enabling 
the divers to progress further in to the system than was previously possible. 
Diving lines have been laid to the boys’ location for other divers to follow 
with essential food, comforts and medical supplies.
We believe that there is only a short break in the monsoon and all feasible 
options for the rescue of the boys are being considered. Although water levels 
have dropped, the diving conditions remain difficult and any attempt to dive 
the boys and their coach out will not be taken lightly because there are 
significant technical challenges and risks to consider.
It is estimated that the boys are around 2 km into the cave and somewhere 
between 800 m to 1km below the surface. They are also located in a relatively 
small space and this would make any potential drilling attempt as a means of 
rescue very difficult. Back here in the UK, there is an assessment of 
electronic equipment that may be suitable to pin-point the underground location 
of the boys and coach with a greater degree of accuracy than the published 
surveys. The necessary equipment will be sent to Thailand if electronic experts 
agree on the feasibility that it will operate over such depths.
Point of contact:
Registered charity: 1137252
   
Bill Whitehouse MBE, Vice Chairman British Cave Rescue Council 
(vicech...@caverescue.org.uk; 07836 593677).
For general information on cave rescue, the character of active river caves and 
the particular challenges that face cave divers when they need to access dry 
cavern beyond flooded, river passages.
Caption: Cave survey of Tham Luang Nang Non cave which identifies the 
underground locations stated in the briefing report (© 
thailandcaves.shepton.org.uk).
Briefing prepared by Gary Mitchell – Assistant Chairman, edited by Peter Dennis 
– Chairman, both of BCRC, 2 July 2018



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[Texascavers] Concerning the Issue of UT Grotto's Eviction

[Justin Shaw]

Posting this here for Mimi, who's not on CaveTex:


Greetings Austin Cavers and other interested parties, 

Dylan Beeler and Mimi Alexander are coordinating a team to find a new permanent 
meeting place. We appreciate your ideas/concerns and will follow up on them 
soon (e.g. churches, schools, nature centers).
If you have leads/ideas that you don't want us to miss, or if you would like to 
be on the team, please contact either me by email or Dylan by phone so we can 
keep all efforts organized.
Please remember that we are prioritizing the following requirements:
- All weather 
- Capacity: At least 100 people (according to the fire code) 
- Cost: Free or cheap
- Environment: Conducive to presentations
- Open to public
- Location: Preferably central
Keep in mind that as a chapter of the NSS we fall under their non-profit 
(501(c)3) status.
We would especially like to thank Wyatt Armstrong, Patty Calabrese, and Drew 
Thompson for the help they've given and offered thus far, and Aimee Beveridge 
and Geoff Hoese for the generous last-minute use of their house for tonight's 
meeting.

Cheers,
Mimi Alexander
UT Grotto

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[Texascavers] UTGrotto at UTAustin, the end of an error

[Justin Shaw]

Welp, the cats out of the bag over on Facebook so I figured I’d give it a 
mention here. 

Not much info in the public post and being that I’m not on Facebook I can’t 
read into the reply’s. As I understand it, the University of Texas is no longer 
willing to allow visitors* to the University Speleological Society meetings. 
They also instituted advance paperwork to be completed for hosting guest* 
speakers.

* a visitor and/or guest is anyone not affiliated with the university through 
enrollment or employment.

Obviously, this excludes practically everyone in the Underground Texas Grotto 
and will likely result in the end of a University Speleological Society. At 
least moving forward we wont have to dance around with semantics as if there’s 
two different organizations. 

We’ve known this could happen for quite some time, so a dedicated few have 
actually already done some research in the realm of meeting spaces. It won’t be 
easy to replace what we had so if you have any novel contacts or leads I'm sure 
the officers would appreciate you reaching out. 

The Facebook post suggested “this week’s meeting may unfortunately just have to 
be canceled” [sic]. While I don’t anticipate finding a replacement meeting 
facility on this short of notice, I would suggest many will still rally at The 
Posse East this Wednesday - for what might well be the last time. Wasn’t that 
where the Underground Texas Grotto officially meets, anyway.


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Re: [Texascavers] MNemo survey device?

[Justin Shaw]

Here you go:

http://arianesline.azurewebsites.net/Home/Mnemo

Looks like a pretty cool box of tricks. Any cave diver worth half their weight 
in gas should have one. 


Elliot’s link is to an unrelated video by Derek Bristol: Cave Survey Efficiency 
5 Tips 🤷‍♂️ I’ve actually watched several of Derek’s videos recently, initiated 
by Locklear’s post last Thursday of his 360 Cheve video. I’ve found them to be 
awesomesauce. His YouTube channel is definitely worth checking out. 




Justin Leigh Shaw
jus...@oztotl.net
512-593-CAVE




Justin Leigh Shaw
jus...@oztotl.net
512-593-CAVE


> On Apr 16, 2018, at 22:34, Mixon Bill  wrote:
> 
> The latest Underwater Speleology, magazine of the NSS Cave Diving Section, 
> has a photo of a diver using an NMemo surveying tool created by Sebastian 
> Kister for cave-diving surveys. Anybody know anything about it? Google has 
> lots of hits, but they are all either about a soccer player or an interactive 
> game controller. -- Mixon
> 
> A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or  edi...@mexicancaves.org
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] New Cave in Brushy Creek area?

[Justin Shaw]

I’ll qualify my quip about the quality of this map to say that given it was 
produced the same day as the survey, it’s perhaps no better than I, or most, 
could produce so quickly. It’s just that as a caver I’m used to seeing higher 
quality maps, and indeed did chuckle at the wording of the standard P.G. stamp 
when viewed on such a basic map. Also, a profile and a few cross sections, of 
matching simplicity, wouldn’t have taken that long to include but would have 
added greatly to the amount of information conveyed by the map. I might have 
been overly harsh, but still smh. 


> Also, here’s a pathetic map of the cave, which Kimble laughable certifies is 
> to the best of his ability. smh 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] New Cave in Brushy Creek area?

[Justin Shaw]

Not only are they taking speleothems out of the cave, they’re handing them out 
as souvenirs.



> On Feb 9, 2018, at 08:21, Heather Tucek  wrote:
> 
> https://kxan.com/2018/02/08/20-foot-deep-sinkhole-opens-in-williamson-county/
> 
> Has anyone seen this yet? Apparently someone has already been down there 
> breaking formations:
> " Cambrian Environmental Services sent two scientists repelling into the cave 
> to help map it out. A growing crowd of neighbors looked on as the scientists 
> returned to the surface carrying a stalactite and details from the inside of 
> the cave. "
> 
> And someone else isn't up on how caves form? 
> " “We don’t know if this could spread, we definitely don’t want children in 
> the area,” said Andrew Johnson, president of the neighborhood HOA. 
> "
> 
> Might be worth someone in the area going to talk with the HOA to prevent 
> people from unknowingly getting themselves in a position they need to be 
> rescued: 
> " “We could have a cave club, go spelunking together maybe,” Mitchell 
> laughed. "
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Go find out!
> -Heather Tuček
> TSA Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> trog...@cavechat.org
> cbcaves.com
> ___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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[Texascavers] Periscope

[Justin Shaw via Texascavers]

Good news everyone, the excellent presentation that Fernando gave on his
experience as an explorer on the 2016 PESH Expedition was not only
broadcast live on Periscope, it is archived indefinitely on Periscope.

Even better, Periscope can be accessed from most internet connected
devices. This includes your regular home computer, regardless of operating
system. While for most of us it's easier to just install the
app, alternately you can just as easily go to:
www.periscope.tv/utgrotto

If you just want to watch, you don't need to join or download or any such
hassle. That's only if you want to be able to take advantage of all the
features offered.

When you land on our Periscope page it shows the most recent broadcast by
default, however you can scroll down to see older broadcasts.

Currently, you could watch:

8/3/2016 (46:50)
Fernando Hernandez presents on this years exploration in Sistema Huatla.

7/6/2016 (19:18)
Peter Sprouse on connections in Quintana Roo MX

7/6/2016 (8:09)
Jim Kennedy on the new gate at Powell's Cave

6/29/2016 (20:42)
Ben Hutchens presents on recent caving in Guatemala!

6/1/2016 (25:00)
Dr. Jean Krejca speaking on sump diving exploration efforts in CM, the 6th
longest cave in Texas!


Prior to sometime in late May, Periscope broadcasts were only available for
24 hours, and then they "expired".





-- 




Justin Leigh Shaw

Cave Specialist

jus...@oztotl.net - personal e-mail

justin.s...@austintexas.gov - work e-mail

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
and coherent manner"
  - John Trudell
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[Texascavers] Airman's River Video

[Justin Shaw via Texascavers]

Greetings,

As most of you know, much of Airman's Cave is once again functioning as an
active phreatic conduit. This last occurred in 1992, which I presume is
still the record high for the Barton Springs Segment of the EdwardsAquifer.

Yesterday Galen Falgout and myself ventured into the aquifer to sample the
water, and we shot a few short video clips in the first section of the cave
that isn't sumped. They have been posted at these non-public links for
viewing by the local caving community:

Airman's River
https://youtu.be/cl_5feblyHo

Airman's Cave with Water
https://youtu.be/w8IT11p-8PQ

Crawling down Airman's River
https://youtu.be/7UHpX8dTZ_0







-- 




Justin Leigh Shaw

Cave Specialist

jus...@oztotl.net - personal e-mail

justin.s...@austintexas.gov - work e-mail

512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text




"we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear
and coherent manner"
  - John Trudell
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[Texascavers] Cave Bean

[Justin Shaw]

   There exists a bean with a wonderful flavor not only in it's taste,
but in it's fanciful story as well. I happen to love the taste of this
bean, and seeing as how many of this beans story's involves a cave,
and archaeologist, I figured I'd see if any anyone among us knew
anything substantive about these enigmatic beans.

   A picture of the bean can be seen at:
https://www.sunshinefarm.net/eshop/storeimages/Beans%20anasazi.jpg

   The most common name in use is Anasazi Bean, a name now trademarked
by Adobe Milling Co. It is also known as the Cave Bean, Anasazi Cave
Bean, New Mexico Cave Bean, and other predictable arrangements and
mutations of these names. It is commonly confused with the Jacob's
Cattle Bean, which is actually a New England heirloom dating to the
1700's.

   I first heard the story of this bean as a child, before the daze of
the Internet. It was said that an archeology team discovered clay
vessels containing the beans at an Anasazi ruin. The size of the find
was large enough, and the archaeologist curious enough, that they
planted some. To everyone's surprise the beans germinated, and today
we have the once lost Anasazi Bean.

   Today, many variations of this story can be found on the Internet,
usually with much more detail, and the details often differing from
one version to another. It seems quite standard to say that the beans
and / or jar were dated at 1,500yr old, and to say that the jar was
sealed with pine pitch / tar.

   Various contradicting stories on the Internet implicate multiple
university's and even make claims of word of mouth verification of
these tails. One such story says they were discovered at Mesa Verde,
Colorado and then taken to the Colorado State University Department of
Agronomy. Another story claims the dig was in New Mexico and carried
out by the UCLA. Some say the beans were planted officially, others
say that it was the action of a rouge member of the team.

   The company with a trade mark on the name Anasazi Bean has this
less glamorous story on there web site:

"Anasazi Beans® were one of the few crops cultivated by the Anasazi.
They were found in the ruins by settlers to the four corners area in
the early 1900's. Presently they are grown at 7,000 ft. elevation on
the same land the Anasazi inhabited."

   Some people nay-say the whole idea of the beans ever being lost and
found. Then it is claimed that the bean has been in constant
cultivation in small gardens of isolated Hopi Indian populations
remaining from the time of the Anasazi. They claim various and
contradicting times of discovery for the bean by western
horticulturist, and that it spread in popularity due to it's taste.

   I'm wondering if any of the digroes in our community can shed any
factual light on this mythological bean.

   In the meantime, perhaps I should acquire a trade mark on the name
Cave Bean and start working on my story of how the Anasazi left the
beans as an offering to Oztotl.

Justin



-
Civilizations Rise and Fall
Mother Earth Spins
  Eternally for All

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[Texascavers] Cave Bean

[Justin Shaw]

   There exists a bean with a wonderful flavor not only in it's taste,
but in it's fanciful story as well. I happen to love the taste of this
bean, and seeing as how many of this beans story's involves a cave,
and archaeologist, I figured I'd see if any anyone among us knew
anything substantive about these enigmatic beans.

   A picture of the bean can be seen at:
https://www.sunshinefarm.net/eshop/storeimages/Beans%20anasazi.jpg

   The most common name in use is Anasazi Bean, a name now trademarked
by Adobe Milling Co. It is also known as the Cave Bean, Anasazi Cave
Bean, New Mexico Cave Bean, and other predictable arrangements and
mutations of these names. It is commonly confused with the Jacob's
Cattle Bean, which is actually a New England heirloom dating to the
1700's.

   I first heard the story of this bean as a child, before the daze of
the Internet. It was said that an archeology team discovered clay
vessels containing the beans at an Anasazi ruin. The size of the find
was large enough, and the archaeologist curious enough, that they
planted some. To everyone's surprise the beans germinated, and today
we have the once lost Anasazi Bean.

   Today, many variations of this story can be found on the Internet,
usually with much more detail, and the details often differing from
one version to another. It seems quite standard to say that the beans
and / or jar were dated at 1,500yr old, and to say that the jar was
sealed with pine pitch / tar.

   Various contradicting stories on the Internet implicate multiple
university's and even make claims of word of mouth verification of
these tails. One such story says they were discovered at Mesa Verde,
Colorado and then taken to the Colorado State University Department of
Agronomy. Another story claims the dig was in New Mexico and carried
out by the UCLA. Some say the beans were planted officially, others
say that it was the action of a rouge member of the team.

   The company with a trade mark on the name Anasazi Bean has this
less glamorous story on there web site:

"Anasazi Beans® were one of the few crops cultivated by the Anasazi.
They were found in the ruins by settlers to the four corners area in
the early 1900's. Presently they are grown at 7,000 ft. elevation on
the same land the Anasazi inhabited."

   Some people nay-say the whole idea of the beans ever being lost and
found. Then it is claimed that the bean has been in constant
cultivation in small gardens of isolated Hopi Indian populations
remaining from the time of the Anasazi. They claim various and
contradicting times of discovery for the bean by western
horticulturist, and that it spread in popularity due to it's taste.

   I'm wondering if any of the digroes in our community can shed any
factual light on this mythological bean.

   In the meantime, perhaps I should acquire a trade mark on the name
Cave Bean and start working on my story of how the Anasazi left the
beans as an offering to Oztotl.

Justin



-
Civilizations Rise and Fall
Mother Earth Spins
  Eternally for All

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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[Texascavers] Cave Bean

[Justin Shaw]

   There exists a bean with a wonderful flavor not only in it's taste,
but in it's fanciful story as well. I happen to love the taste of this
bean, and seeing as how many of this beans story's involves a cave,
and archaeologist, I figured I'd see if any anyone among us knew
anything substantive about these enigmatic beans.

   A picture of the bean can be seen at:
https://www.sunshinefarm.net/eshop/storeimages/Beans%20anasazi.jpg

   The most common name in use is Anasazi Bean, a name now trademarked
by Adobe Milling Co. It is also known as the Cave Bean, Anasazi Cave
Bean, New Mexico Cave Bean, and other predictable arrangements and
mutations of these names. It is commonly confused with the Jacob's
Cattle Bean, which is actually a New England heirloom dating to the
1700's.

   I first heard the story of this bean as a child, before the daze of
the Internet. It was said that an archeology team discovered clay
vessels containing the beans at an Anasazi ruin. The size of the find
was large enough, and the archaeologist curious enough, that they
planted some. To everyone's surprise the beans germinated, and today
we have the once lost Anasazi Bean.

   Today, many variations of this story can be found on the Internet,
usually with much more detail, and the details often differing from
one version to another. It seems quite standard to say that the beans
and / or jar were dated at 1,500yr old, and to say that the jar was
sealed with pine pitch / tar.

   Various contradicting stories on the Internet implicate multiple
university's and even make claims of word of mouth verification of
these tails. One such story says they were discovered at Mesa Verde,
Colorado and then taken to the Colorado State University Department of
Agronomy. Another story claims the dig was in New Mexico and carried
out by the UCLA. Some say the beans were planted officially, others
say that it was the action of a rouge member of the team.

   The company with a trade mark on the name Anasazi Bean has this
less glamorous story on there web site:

"Anasazi Beans® were one of the few crops cultivated by the Anasazi.
They were found in the ruins by settlers to the four corners area in
the early 1900's. Presently they are grown at 7,000 ft. elevation on
the same land the Anasazi inhabited."

   Some people nay-say the whole idea of the beans ever being lost and
found. Then it is claimed that the bean has been in constant
cultivation in small gardens of isolated Hopi Indian populations
remaining from the time of the Anasazi. They claim various and
contradicting times of discovery for the bean by western
horticulturist, and that it spread in popularity due to it's taste.

   I'm wondering if any of the digroes in our community can shed any
factual light on this mythological bean.

   In the meantime, perhaps I should acquire a trade mark on the name
Cave Bean and start working on my story of how the Anasazi left the
beans as an offering to Oztotl.

Justin



-
Civilizations Rise and Fall
Mother Earth Spins
  Eternally for All

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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Re: [ot_caving] Urine or You're Out - Another Perspective

[Justin Shaw]

>> THE JOB - URINE TEST
>> (Whoever wrote this one down deserves a HUGE pat on the back!)
>>
>> Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I
>> pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In
>> order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with
>> which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution
>> of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test.
>> Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I
>> have to pass one to earn it for them? Please understand, I have no problem
>> with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a
>> problem with helping someone sitting on their A--, doing drugs, while I
>> work. . . Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had
>> to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?
>>
>> I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.
>>
>> Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all
>> will pass it along, though. . Some thing has to change in this country --
>> and soon!!!
>
>
--

   Actually, some people do have to subject themselves to this type of
draconian barbarism to receive much needed assistance. My mother for
one, who suffers from rather extreme fibromyalgia, and is therefore
prescribed narcotic medications with extreme side effects including
permanent liver damage, permanent kidney damage, lack of cognitive
thought process, an increases in blood pressure - oh lookie, they have
a drug for her high blood pressure too, and lookie, it has side
affects too…

   Now because my mom is on permanent disability, she cannot work, not
even just this weekend for you watching your kids, because if the
government finds out, she's out of assistance and on the streets.
What's even more draconian is the fact that she had to sign an
agreement that she can be randomly drug tested at any time.

   Fibromyalgia is a disease that affects the connective tissue of the
human body. Marijuana is an herb that has been proven in many studies
(mostly outside of this country) to dramatically decrease the brains
perception of non-localized (and localized) pain, among many other
benefits.

   In short, my mom CAN take narcotic medications that make the
pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and politicians rich, have major
side affects, and provide minimal relief without a constant increase
in dosage. - Remember, this isn't like when you break something and
get scrip for two weeks. My mother is expected to live the rest of her
life this way, which will be greatly shortened by the medications she
is taking.

   She CAN'T smoke a couple hits of marijuana, supporting a local
cottage industry, and relieving her pain without any known or
suspected side affects. If she did this, she would be out of pain, and
able to get a good nights sleep, unfortunately she might not have a
roof to sleep under, or a way to afford food.

   Due to an agenda established by the Food and Drug Administration
and with banners carried forward by those ever two faced and
illiterate fundamentalist Christians (if they were literate they would
read that the bible actually says god provided all seed bearing plants
for the use of man Genesis 1:11) my mother, like millions of other
Americans is forced to live in pain for the profit of the already
rich.

   This is not in the spirit of a free country.

   The writer of this e-mail states  "In order to get that paycheck, I
am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem".
Those last six words are actually the most worrisome aspect of this
person's point of view. To not have a problem with your employer drug
testing you.

   You do realize this is your employer saying to you, that in no
uncertain terms, they don't trust you? How could you ever bee so
foolish as to trust someone who doesn't trust you? Would you do that
of a person? A corporation is no different than a person. So why do
you work for a company that doesn't trust you?

   Wouldn't you rather work for a company that trusts it's managers to
properly assess a person's ability to do their job? Imagine if this
was done regardless of what drugs that person may need to do there
job. Human quality cannot be quantified.

   Almost every person holding down a steady job in this country is on
drugs. Some legal, some illegal. There are the stimulants; Caffeine
being the number one, also popular is Adderall and Cocaine, depending
on business class. Then there are the relaxants, such as Paxil,
Marijuana, and Kava Kava.  What's the important difference in these
drugs? Education and Taxation.

   I say, Educate and establish a tax-rate, don't legislate and incarcerate.

   The writer of this e-mail also states "Some thing has to change in
this country -- and soon!" Trust me things are going to change. This
unsustainable

[Texascavers] Tiny animals stop Australian iron mine

[Justin Shaw]

Speaking of iron mining...

< http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/6508103.stm >

BBC NEWS

Tiny animals stop Australian mine

The discovery of tiny, cave-dwelling animals measuring just 4mm in
length has halted plans to develop a $10bn (£5bn) mine in Western
Australia.

Environmental protection officials rejected the iron ore mine proposal
from mining giant Rio Tinto when 11 species of troglobite were
discovered.

The troglobites are tiny cave-dwelling creatures which resemble spiders.

They feed on organic matter deep underground and will die if exposed
to ultraviolet light outside their caves.

The chairman of Western Australia's Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA), Wally Cox, said the proposed mine would cause the extinction of
at least five of the newly-discovered species.

Approval process

A Rio Tinto spokesman said the company would appeal against the decision.

"It's just part of being in the mining business," said the spokesman.
"We support the EPA process in general."

Opposition environment spokesman Steve Thomas said the EPA ruling put
future developments in the state at risk.

"Because [the government has] upgraded the requirements of the mining
sector in the environmental approvals process to find what's out
there, they go out there and find things," he said.

Troglobites have no eyes but have long front legs or feelers to find
their way around in the dark.






--
Justin Leigh Shaw
Austin, Texas - Y'all

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