Re: [Texascavers] Free tee shirt ?

[Scott Boyd]

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 1:50 PM David  wrote:

> I do not recall seeing the info in the link below on Cavetex.
>
> http://www.texascavetrail.com/#how
>
>
> That's quite likely because not much info relevant to caving (other than
conventions & TCRs) is on this mailing list any more. I'm guessing that
it's all moved to privacy-sucking Facebook...

Scott
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Re: [Texascavers] sort-of related to nothing

[Scott Boyd]

I know you probably won't answer this, but what's bugging me is: why in the
h3ll did you buy that huge ladder that's taller than your storage room???
Just because it was on sale? Did you just want to have a good excuse to not
pay your apartment rent?

Scott
scottd...@gmail.com


On Sat, Jun 29, 2019, 7:35 PM David  wrote:

> From David Locklear
> Please hit delete button now
>
>
> The link below shows my new ladder
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/wdtcvehx7vtz88m/AAAcP5Z4tHx2fqyKAatGssVla
>
> In the event that the TSC needs such a ladder someday, then it is my
> sincere hope that I can donate it.   The platform of the podium is 9 feet 6
> inches off the ground.
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Another misadventure

[Scott Boyd]

His ride was only to Texarkana on I-30. I-49 is where he needs to go south
to Humid-town - I mean Houston...

Scott D. Boyd
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR, OK & MS
Professional Transportation, Inc.

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 5:09 PM John Brooks 
wrote:

> What happened?
> Did you get dumped on the side of the road ?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 19, 2019, at 3:59 PM, David  wrote:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/y47CBpU325n8rU4R6
>
> 4 p.m. Wednesday
> 10 miles northeast of Texarkana, Texas
>
>
>
> D.L.
>
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Re: [Texascavers] austin american Statesman article on Bill Russell and the karst preserve

[Scott Boyd]

Great article - and the reporter didn't even call them "underground caves"!

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 9:36 PM Katherine Arens 
wrote:

>
> https://www.statesman.com/news/20190614/50-years-of-digging-story-of-honored-austin-caver
>
>
>

-- 
Scott D. Boyd
scottd...@gmail.com
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR, OK & MS
*Professional Transportation, Inc.*
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Re: [Texascavers] A consumer tip - new cell phones

[Scott Boyd]

I drive through several states for work every week for the last 7 years. I
use a Garmin GPS because I like knowing at any time how much longer until I
get to where I'm going. I can also keep all my waypoints (favorites) on the
Garmin, and it doesn't need a cellular connection. But, I also have a
7-year-old spiral-bound road atlas of the U.S. in the car. If I need to see
a map of a whole state at once, the road atlas is really MUCH, MUCH better
than zooming out (and losing detail) and scrolling and scrolling on a tiny
5' or 6' screen.

Scott D. Boyd
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR, OK & MS
*Professional Transportation, Inc.*


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 3:27 PM Charles Loving  wrote:

> We crossed the Sahara with ONC charts and a Michelin map. Still, have the
> map in case I need to cross the Sahara again.
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 12:05 PM JamesJasek  wrote:
>
>> I forgot to mention using GPS are use up an app called MotionX-GPS GPS
>> uses the GPS to track my hiking and it’s a fantastic app and it works quite
>> well but like yourself I also like and use paper maps there is no
>> substitute as far as I’m concerned for a good paper map boy are you talk
>> about getting hard to find the old bales of getting a free me up in the gas
>> station are gone
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Sent from my iPhoneX
>>
>> On Jun 13, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Charles Loving  wrote:
>>
>> Smart phones.
>>  I had a nifty Samsung something that did all manner of things. The
>> screen was way too little for my ancient eyes. The teeny ap things were
>> impossible for my fumble fingers. I kept pushing the wrong buttons and
>> calling porn-hub or some such. I had two of them and tossed them in a
>> drawer with my four Kindle machines. I went back to a dumb phone that does
>> one thing, call people and get rob calls. It will text I think but I don't
>> do that because it is a pain in the culo,It does have tetris and a phone
>> book. As for GPS i dug up my road atlas of Texas and a state highway may
>> with Dolph Briscoe on the cover. It still works. No one calls out here in
>> Deer Corn, there is still no service. My land line still works quite well.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:18 PM JamesJasek  wrote:
>>
>>> Nonsense
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhoneX
>>>
>>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 9:32 PM, David  wrote:
>>>
>>> I needed to get a new smartphone for my business.
>>>
>>> I chose the cheap route by 2019 standards.  I now have a shiny new
>>> Coolpad Legacy from MetroPCS.  This phone falls into "phablet" category.
>>>  It requires two hands to use and is very heavy.
>>>
>>> After 24 hours of using the Legacy, I can say that the fingerprint
>>> scanner is better than previous cheapo-phones that I have used.
>>>
>>> Watching YouTube or surfing the web, etc in landscape position with a
>>> kickstand is better than on a small smartphone.
>>>
>>> I see now why Steve Jobs was so adamant about keeping the iPhone light
>>> and small.   Most people are going to find using the Legacy as a phone to
>>> be difficult.  It would be deadly to drive and hold this phone.
>>>
>>> Navigation is a plus as the Legacy replaces the need for most small
>>> portable navigation devices for cars.
>>>
>>> Think of the Legacy more as a crappy Garmin navigation device that makes
>>> cell-phone calls.
>>>
>>> Playing simple games on the Legacy such as Freecell is better than on a
>>> regular smartphone .
>>>
>>> It comes with Android 9 and a Type "C" USB which was unheard of in this
>>> price category.
>>>
>>> What this phone does is set the bar for future cheapo-smartphones.
>>>
>>> Once we get a real smartphone operating system ( like the upcoming
>>> Fuchsia OS ) these cheapo-smartphones be will be even more amazing and at
>>> the same time, taken for granted in the future by today"s young people.
>>>
>>> David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] dumpster dive party

[Scott Boyd]

Bill - did you use your Delorean time machine?

Scott D. Boyd
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR, OK & MS
Professional Transportation, Inc.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 9:15 PM Bill Bentley  I had to fax something a while back, I had to fire up my time machine and
> go back to 1985 and find a fax machine!
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 9:07 PM David 
>> From David Locklear
>>
>> I am way way out of the loop on this topic and any caving topic.
>>
>> There is or once was a fancy 10 gallon mining bucket in Ernie's storage
>> shed.I would like to either have this bucket and accessories returned
>> to me,
>> or make sure it perpetually ends up in "The Texas Speleological Center."
>>  The old hunk of metal may look like a rusty bucket and chain, but it is
>> worth far more money than it appears.   The lifting brace alone was forged
>> with magic speleo-love more powerful than the legendary sword of
>> Excalibur.  Okay, maybe a slight exaggeration.   I had the lift-brace
>> custom fabricated by an engineering firm and specially heat-treated.
>>
>> Ernie told me recently that I had some boots there too.  I can not
>> imagine they would still be any good after 5 years of dry-rot, plus my foot
>> has grown since then.
>>
>>
>> On a totally different note,
>>
>> I am buried in work, and finally steadly making money ( about $ 500 a
>> week.)   I know that is chump change, but being self-employed is an
>> achievement in itself.   The quantity of my work appears to be growing, but
>> it could be an illusion.
>>
>> As of today, I now have an cloud-based fax number using
>>
>>   www.xenfax.com
>>
>> The service is not yet working quite right.  The number is supposed to be
>> 832-410-8050.  Fax me a smiley-face if you can, so I can test it.I can
>> now see the benefits of such a service.I had used Camscanner app for 2
>> years as my fax tool, but it is a different tool than XenFax.  Like a
>> ratchet-screwdriver compared to an electric driver. Camscanner was not
>> doing the faxing task the way I needed it done.   The lower cost of XenFax
>> will hopefully be the solution.If you want to see how it works, text me
>> privately, but I imagine it is just like efax or smartfax, etc.
>>
>> David
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Re: [Texascavers] Caving Ingenuity Required!

[Scott Boyd]

Duct tape - several yards of it! It will also add padding to the outside of
your helmet. 


Scott
scottd...@gmail.com

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 3:36 PM Mallory Mayeux  Let's say someone had a bracket like this:
> https://www.innermountainoutfitters.com/metal-flat-lamp-bracket/
>
> and an old carbide light, and they wanted to go caving with their carbide
> lamp - but only for a weekend. After the weekend was over, they'd revert
> back to their normal LED headlamp.
>
> What would be the best way to mount a bracket on a helmet for the weekend
> - strong enough to keep your carbide on but easy enough to reconvert into a
> plain old helmet?
>
> Ideas welcome!
>
> Mallory Mayeux
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Re: [Texascavers] sort of Houston related

[Scott Boyd]

Awright - another year of the Linux Desktop! We've been having
those since I-don't-remember-when..

Scott

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM David  wrote:

> From David Locklear
> ( hit delete button now, please )
>
> Normally, by mid-December, my business is dead as a door-nail.   But
> due to Hurricane Harvey, there is a tremendous backlog in the work that
> I do, and I am currently swamped.I could possibly hire a caver
> in Houston to do a delivery for me - maybe several between now and the
> first week of January.The delivery would involve driving 50 miles and
> putting
> up with some ridiculous bureaucracy, and the receiver of the delivery would
> likely not be happy to see you, and might have to be delivered on
> Christmas Eve,
> or Christmas Day or NYE or New Year's Day. The pay is somewhere between
> peanuts with sea-salt and honey-roasted peanuts, and might not even cover
> your gas.
>
> On a similar note, I urgently need to find a good roommate.   I have a
> sweet
> apartment now, but there is no place to park a car.
>
> I will be celebrating Festivus on Dec. 23rd at my apartment, and should
> have
> ice-cream and soft-drinks, and hopefully a cold six-pack of Smirnoff Ice.
>
> I am hoping to make a caver NYE party, if there is a good one going on.
> I
> doubt I can go to the one in Huntsville.
>
> I would like to watch my favorite caver rock-band, GFB, perform in the
> near future.
>
> There is a 5 % chance I will end up in the Mexican bordertown of Reynosa
> during the last
> week of December and a 5 % chance I will end up at my sisters in
> Mansfield, south of
> Arlington.
>
> On a personal note, I have had about 10 customers pay me on-line this past
> few weeks using
> things like Zelle, PayPal, Cash app, Chase Quickpay, and SQUARE, but still
> living above
> my means.   Those use my business email:da...@houston-subpoena.com
>
> In summary, going caving is not feasible right now, but I have finally
> found my vertical gear,
> after many years of it being boxed up.I hope to buy a new headlamp by
> February.
>
> 2019 will be the year of Desktop Linux ( a Linux joke )
>
> Cheers,
>
> D.L.
>
>
> Cashtag $dlocklear01
>
> mailing address:
> 4545 Cook Rd.  #716
> Houston, TX 77072
>
> email sent using OpenSUSE Plasma Tumbleweed 20181211
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*Professional Transportation, Inc.*
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Re: [Texascavers] Just for fun

[Scott Boyd]

If David likes Cajun food, it could be a boudin ball on his kitchen
counter. It would go good with a really cold Shiner Bock...

Scott Boyd - retired N. Texas caver


On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 7:12 AM Michael Harris 
wrote:

> David,
>
> You sure that's not a sugar cookie on your kitchen counter?
>
> Mike Harris
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018, 1:04 AM David 
>> NASA release this photo a few hours ago of the arrival of their probe to
>> the asteroid "Bennu."
>>
>> To an untrained eye, it looks like a kid made a ball of sand and gravel,
>> and glued it together.
>>
>>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101955_Bennu
>>
>> But to a caver virtual-ridgewalking over the landscape, they might notice
>> at 2 o'clock a system of connecting talus-caves with each passage with a
>> maximum length
>> of about 10 meters, with total system length of about 25 meters.
>>
>> I hearby call dibs on the name of this system of talus caves as, "Bennu
>> Caverns."
>>
>> A handful of people somewhere on Earth still believe that The Universe
>> was intelligently designed.
>> There is proof before your eyes, that it was very far from
>> intelligent.What purpose other than
>> death and destruction could a 500 meter ball of conglomerated rocks
>> traveling randomly through space
>> serve ??  I hope that big 50 meter size boulder is solid cretaceous
>> limestone, with fossils of
>> aquatic mammals life.
>>
>>
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Re: [Texascavers] Cavers in the News

[Scott Boyd]

He might have gone to a grotto meeting near you at one time. Bill is a
member of the DFW Grotto and a former member of the now-defunct Maverick
Grotto in Ft. Worth where I had met him back in about 2002(?). You may have
also seen him at one of the TSA Spring Conventions or an NSS convention.

Scott Boyd
(retired caver, but still lurking on Texascavers)
scottd...@gmail.com


On Sun, Apr 29, 2018, 1:05 AM David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/04/26/real-life-spider-man-new-species-of-tarantula-named-after-eagle-scout-speleologist-bill-steele/
>
> I have seen that guy somewhere.He looks familiar. Wasn't he that
> guy that came to a grotto meeting one time ?
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] unsubscribe

[Scott C via Texascavers]

--- Begin Message ---
Unsubscribe 

scotts.la...@yahoo.com


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2018, at 2:56 PM, Thompson via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Unsubscribe
> 
> jen...@mailowl.net
> 
>> On 1/12/2018 5:11 PM, Bob Marshall via Texascavers wrote:
>> Unsubscribe
>> bobmarshal...@gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Midnight Cave -- Lower Entrance

[Scott C via Texascavers]

--- Begin Message ---
TCMA...That’s totally awesome caving stuff, of course! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Bill Steele via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> How about the TCMA acquiring Midnight Cave and more caves for caving? 
> 
>> On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Scott C <scotts.la...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I totally agree with Gregg. This is real caving stuff that is interesting :) 
>> Thanks for sharing!
>> 
>> Scott Cogburn 
>> GHG
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Gregg Williams via Texascavers 
>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This sort of stuff is what this email list should have more of. 
>>> 
>>> Gregg
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 9:27 AM, James Jasek via Texascavers 
>>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>>>> Great story
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhoneiPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 5, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Logan McNatt via Texascavers 
>>>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In Carl's message about digging open the lower entrance from inside 
>>>> Midnight Cave, he didn't mention what happened next--one of many stories 
>>>> in the lore of the Carta Valley cavers.
>>>> 
>>>> Carl's original version is in the chapter on Midnight Cave in his 50 Years 
>>>> of Texas Caving pp. 458-467.
>>>> It is better than my synopsis below. 
>>>> 
>>>> LowGun
>>>> 
>>>> The successful dig gave Carl Kunath, Ron Bridgemon, Chuck Pease, and Nick 
>>>> Lucas a rare opportunity to play a devilish trick on the other two members 
>>>> of the team. Jan and Orion Knox were at the back of the cave where they 
>>>> had pushed through the tortuous Corkscrew into a significant unexplored 
>>>> section of the cave.
>>>> 
>>>> The dig crew exited the new entrance, walked over to the pit entrance, and 
>>>> pulled up the rope. They reentered through the lower entrance and met up 
>>>> with Jan and Orion, who were not told of the discovery. Arriving at the 
>>>> bottom of the pit entrance to find no rope, the conspirators feigned 
>>>> dismay and consternation, but were disappointed at the calm reaction of 
>>>> Jan and Orion. A brief quest for another way out surprised them with 
>>>> sunlight coming through the new entrance.
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>>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Midnight Cave -- Lower Entrance

[Scott C via Texascavers]

--- Begin Message ---
I totally agree with Gregg. This is real caving stuff that is interesting :) 
Thanks for sharing!

Scott Cogburn 
GHG

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Gregg Williams via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> This sort of stuff is what this email list should have more of. 
> 
> Gregg
> 
>> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 9:27 AM, James Jasek via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> Great story
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhoneiPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 5, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Logan McNatt via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> 
>> In Carl's message about digging open the lower entrance from inside Midnight 
>> Cave, he didn't mention what happened next--one of many stories in the lore 
>> of the Carta Valley cavers.
>> 
>> Carl's original version is in the chapter on Midnight Cave in his 50 Years 
>> of Texas Caving pp. 458-467.
>> It is better than my synopsis below. 
>> 
>> LowGun
>> 
>> The successful dig gave Carl Kunath, Ron Bridgemon, Chuck Pease, and Nick 
>> Lucas a rare opportunity to play a devilish trick on the other two members 
>> of the team. Jan and Orion Knox were at the back of the cave where they had 
>> pushed through the tortuous Corkscrew into a significant unexplored section 
>> of the cave.
>> 
>> The dig crew exited the new entrance, walked over to the pit entrance, and 
>> pulled up the rope. They reentered through the lower entrance and met up 
>> with Jan and Orion, who were not told of the discovery. Arriving at the 
>> bottom of the pit entrance to find no rope, the conspirators feigned dismay 
>> and consternation, but were disappointed at the calm reaction of Jan and 
>> Orion. A brief quest for another way out surprised them with sunlight coming 
>> through the new entrance.
>> ___
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Houston question

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

He's at his house with his wife and daughter and complaining about
everything

Scott D. Boyd
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR, OK & MS
Professional Transportation, Inc.

On Aug 29, 2017 8:29 AM, "Sheryl Rieck via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> I know his neighborhood was evacuated yesterday. I had heard he was in
> hotel with his wife and daughter but that was a few days ago.
>
> Sheryl Rieck
> sheryl.ri...@gmail.com
>
> "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just
> might find you get what you need" Rolling Stones
>
> > On Aug 29, 2017, at 8:06 AM, Jon Cradit via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> >
> > He has been uncharacteristically quite.
> > I hope it's only due to no internet connections.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On
> Behalf Of Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 7:15 AM
> > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com
> >
> > Cc: Jacqueline Thomas <jlrtho...@verizon.net>
> > Subject: [Texascavers] Houston question
> >
> > Has anyone heard anything of David Locklear? Everyone else on this list
> seems to be accounted for. Jacqui
> >
> >
> > J. LaRue Thomas
> > jlrtho...@verizon.net
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Texascavers] Road-trip Report No. 5

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

As Charlie said: NO! You'll go again next year, despite all the advice and
warnings to the contrary. I hope that party was worth the 100s of dollars
you spent, but I doubt that it was...

Scott D. Boyd
scottdb56 at gmail dot com

On Jun 22, 2017 6:39 PM, "David via Texascavers" wrote:

(snip-snip)

Any chance I will learn something from this tragedy ?
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Re: [Texascavers] Some photos

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

No caver has ever been able to get that close to Bill's backpack...


On Jun 19, 2017 9:47 PM, "Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

Thanks David!  Keep the pics coming.

No selfie with the Steele clan?  make sure you slip a rock into Bill's
backpack...


Scott D. Boyd
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR, OK & MS
Professional Transportation, Inc.
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Re: [Texascavers] Cave bombed

[Scott Boyd]

David - think about WHY the cave was bombed. Was it because there was rare
"speleo-fauna" living in the cave? I doubt it. Quite likely there were
people living in the cave who don't give a s#!t if any animals, plants or
rare formations were in the cave. Quite likely the aforementioned
speleo-fauna were already impacted into the ground and the cave is full of
smoke and soot from their fires they use to cook with.

Scott D. Boyd
scottd...@gmail.com

On Apr 13, 2017 5:36 PM, "David" <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:

We the people, allegedly bombed a cave in Afghanistan today.

Should an international team of biologist be sent in to count the
speleo-fauna that was impacted.

Do we have a right to know the truth ?   Can we handle the truth ?

What other speleo-related impacts could be learned ?


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Re: [Texascavers] January Government Canyon trip report

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

Great report Marvin - thanks for posting it! Looks like Kevin had lots of
fun, judging by how much mud he had on himself...

Scott Boyd - retired from caving
scottd...@gmail.com


On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> *Government Canyon Karst Project Report*
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Reminder - Bexar Grotto Christmas Party tomorrow (December 17 at 6 pm) See info below.

[Scott C via Texascavers]

That is the most awesome Christmas party invite ever! Lol :) Love it! I was 
cracking up while reading the part about the roof and the cat o nine tails! 
Y'all must really bring it at your grotto party!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 8:38 AM, Geary Schindel via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> The Bexar Grotto Holiday Party will be held on Saturday, December 17th from 6 
> pm until whenever at Geary and Sue Schindel's house located at 11310 Whisper 
> Dawn in San Antonio. Phone is 210.479.2151. This is the same location as last 
> year. The grotto will be providing a ham and other fixings and attendees are 
> asked to bring an appropriate dish or dishes. There is a grill available in 
> the backyard but we also encourage folks to bring dishes that have already 
> been prepared as much of the kitchen space is taken up by blenders and glass 
> containers and there is little room to prepare a dish. There is a microwave, 
> oven, and stove top for heating up dishes as necessary.
> The grotto will not be providing adult beverages but please feel free to 
> bring your own beverage of choice. Please make sure that you drink 
> responsibly.
> There will also be a White Elephant gift exchange with certain restrictions. 
> Gifts in the $5 to $20 range are appropriate and creative homemade gifts are 
> always appreciated - especially if they are funny or related to caving (maybe 
> another "Cat O 9" will make an appearance).  The house rules are that If you 
> receive a gift,  you must take it home. If no one takes your gift, you have 
> to take that home also. The only exception is beer, wine, or liquor - you can 
> leave that. We would also encourage you to take home your dishes you bring 
> and check out the selection as you may have one left over from last year. 
> Please no pets as gifts - they tend to be left behind and usually end up in 
> my neighbor's yard for some reason.
> We're all for a separate exchange for kids if a parent wants to organize 
> that. My kids are great so no, you can't change your kids for my kids no 
> matter how much my kids beg.
> Couple of ground rules:
> * Event attire is Christmas Casual. That means you're welcome to 
> dress up or not but please, make sure you change out of caving cloths and 
> leave muddy boots in the car. If you need a shower before the party, we have 
> a hose in the backyard (and lotion - you can either use the lotion or "gets 
> the hose.").
> * If you've had too much to drink, we will find someone to drive you 
> home or find a place for you at or under the house.
> * Kids are welcome but they need to be well behaved. No running in 
> and out of the house or playing around the fire in the backyard. Our house is 
> not kid proof and we don't want anyone hurt.
> * Please be careful where you park and don't block any of the 
> neighbor's drive ways. However, street parking is fair game so don't let 
> anyone tell you otherwise. No open containers in the street and please don't 
> throw any bottles in people's front or backyards. Note there is some 
> construction in the neighborhood so be careful where you walk.
> * The hot tub is hot and open for business (102 F). If you want to 
> get in, plan accordingly (Bring a towel if you have one.). Please no diving 
> or jumping and no snorkels and masks and there is no lifeguard on duty. Tub 
> at your own risk.
> * Please leave your guns at home.
> * No keg stands, that resulted in some pretty messy accidents at the 
> last party and we don't need that in the house (however, I now have a plunger 
> in every bathroom - live and learn).
> * If you get a Cat O Nine Tails in the gift exchange, we would 
> recommend you put it away as they can leave some nasty long term marks for 
> the inexperienced (as Rob K how we know that).
> * No pets, including service animals. We now have three pets that 
> don't tolerate other animals very well - no matter how well trained they are.
> * Stay off the roof and out of the trees - no good can come of it 
> (geezzz. I hate having to keep posting this every year).
> Hopefully, the ground rules aren't too restrictive.
> Geary and Sue Schindel
> 11310 Whisper Dawn
> San Antonio, Texas 78230
> 210.479.2151 phone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver

[Scott C via Texascavers]

Well put, Don:)

Scott Cogburn 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> As a trained and educated artist, recent volunteer Texas Cavers Reunion cat 
> herder, and past Texas Caver Editor (a particularly thankless job) I have 
> always found plenty of folks to endlessly criticize or complain, it's an 
> integral part of the job and one learns to recognize the difference between 
> "criticism" & "opinion". However, novices (volunteers who stepped up to do a 
> job when no one else would) aren't usually trained or skilled or ready to 
> deal with criticism. It can be counterproductive.
> 
> At TCR typically I ask critics to step up and help solve whatever they think 
> isn't happening to their expectation. One of two things happens; they step up 
> and do something -or- they shut up and do nothing. In my experience the vast 
> majority of complainers choose the latter.
> 
> At TCR, lots of people voice ideas about how it -should- be done, and I get 
> tons of criticism of how "it got done wrong", or how "it should be done in 
> the future" or how "it was done better in the past". Plenty of suggestions, 
> oodles of constructive ideas. But when it come time for those same volunteers 
> to step up and stand behind their suggestions and help - very very few ever 
> follow through. Ever. They usually disappear with the words "how about 
> helping out then?" The ones that actually see the job done are the ones who 
> want it done and do it. 
> 
> Criticism can be constructive, such as when someone expects it or asks for 
> it. Or the critic is willing to step in and help firsthand, which is usually 
> welcomed. Especially useful are wisdom and experience. Otherwise it's just 
> opinion.
> 
> When someone is struggling on the side of a busy highway trying to change a 
> flat tire, it's real easy to drive past and shout out the window "lift with 
> your knees!"
> 
> --Don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Don
> On Oct 26, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
>> The Texas Caver
>>  
>> So here we go again with the Texas Caver.  Every few years we are seeking a 
>> new editor or at least discussing options that might disburse the rowdy 
>> crowds that are assembling at the gates with torches and pitchforks. 
>>  
>> What is gong on here?  Why is it that every few years there is a Texas Caver 
>> crisis and a less than graceful transition to a new editor?
>>  
>> There is lots of talk about the Texas Caver.  From the outset, there seems 
>> to have been some confusion regarding the difference between good journalism 
>> and nice graphic arts. Unfortunately, neither has been regularly in 
>> evidence.  Maybe I've missed it, but I can't recall anyone praising the 
>> Caver for high quality journalism or the reliability of production.  The 
>> editor has a few passionate defenders who are willing to do battle with any 
>> and all detractors, but the current editorial has now acknowledged what has 
>> been evident for several years.
>>  
>> The coming transition is an opportunity to learn from previous mistakes. 
>> Texas cavers appreciate good grammar, proper spelling, and nice graphics 
>> but, failing that, are willing to forgive a lot if the Caver shows signs of 
>> having been carefully crafted with attention to detail:  nice photographs 
>> properly captioned and credited; articles well laid out with all elements 
>> present; no space used as a personal blog; and perhaps most importantly, 
>> timely production.
>>  
>> I was handed a copy of the most recent Texas Caver at the TSA meeting Sunday 
>> morning, October 16.  When I looked at the cover, my first thought was 
>> "huh?"   I rotated the page through 360 degrees as I searched in vain for a 
>> person or anything for scale.  Despairing, I then looked inside for the 
>> caption information.  I didn't find much.  The picture credits Peter Bosted 
>> and apparently depicts a scene from the Big Island, Hawaii.  I infer that it 
>> pictures something within a cave and is not merely a hand sample from a flea 
>> market or mineral show.  As usual, there is no proper caption information.  
>> A closer look at the cover reveals "haul" to be misspelled and a Government 
>> Canyon report proffered as being from "2105."  Those errors are egregious 
>> and, sadly, are but a preview of others to come.
>>  
>> In the present issue (the word "current" can't properly be applied

Re: [Texascavers] Can Locklear please restrain himself !!

[Scott C via Texascavers]

ROFLMAO!!! Hilarious, Stefan :) 

Scott Cogburn :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 3:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> You know it’s Friday when…
>  
> The number of posts complaining about the number of posts David makes… 
> exceeds the number of posts David makes.
>  
> Cheers,
> Stefan Creaser
> Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
> 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
> Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
> Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 3:35 PM
> To: Cavetex
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Can Locklear please restrain himself !!
>  
> Oh come on Bill, you know you wanna :)
>  
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Bill Bentley - ca...@caver.net via 
> Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> Yes take it over... LOL... been there done that... Thank you but no... I just 
> delete.
> Bill Bentley
> ca...@caver.net 
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> Date: 7/8/16 3:29 PM (GMT-06:00) 
> To: Cavetex <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Can Locklear please restrain himself !!
> 
> We have 4 rules: http://texascavers.com/rules.html
>  
> David hasn't broken any rules and no, he's older than me Bob.
>  
> I maintain the rules as list owner, that's it.  I've always stated that this 
> list is self moderated.  If you don't like a post that someone has sent out, 
> send them a private message if possible. 
>  
> If you don't like the list and how it's run, anyone is free to step up and 
> take over, including hosting and paying.  Or, it's just easier to delete a 
> message and go about enjoying your day.  Personally, that's what I do.
>  
> Charles
> list owner
> wo...@justfamily.org
>  
>  
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Julia Germany via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> Hi Frank!
> 
> We don't want to lose a valuable, iconic Texas caver from this list. Or any 
> other cavers. Some folks forget these posts are read by cavers who are not  
> in/from Texas. And, who don't know David.
> 
> I have no doubt someone will point out that David's posts say "off-topic," 
> "delete now if you don't want to read it."
> 
> However, I concur that this listserv has a clear intention of being used for 
> the purpose of cave-related posts.
> 
> I know David L posts comments on the various Texas cave-related Face Book 
> pages.
> 
> Perhaps the moderator of this listserv could politely suggest that David post 
> any non-cave related information on these other sites.  And, perhaps, even 
> politely let David know that he might be unsubscribed if he continues to 
> improperly use this listserv.
> 
> julia
> 
> 
> 
> - from julia's cell
> 
> Julia G Germany
> c: 281.979.9208
> e: germa...@aol.com
> 
> > On Jul 8, 2016, at 13:30, Frank Binney via Texascavers 
> > <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> >
> > Many, if not most of us, subscribe to CaveTex to keep up with caving and 
> > caver-related news. A number of cavers I know have, unfortunately, 
> > unsubscribed from the list because of the volume of off-topic spam from 
> > David Locklear.
> > I’m about to join them, as David’s recent return to the list has flooded my 
> > inbox with list-inappropriate posts.
> > Can those of you who like David please counsel him on list etiquette and 
> > suggest more appropriate venues for his off-topic posts?
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Binney
> > NSS 10816 Fellow
> > i...@frankbinney.com
> >
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Re: [Texascavers] LaChance Dig trip on Saturday, July 2 - more information

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

On Jun 30, 2016 9:23 AM, "Geary Schindel via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> There are reports the cave may extend under the Red River or may be the
remains of an escape tunnel from the Alamo.
>
Wow - a cave in Texas that starts in New Braunfels and may extend all the
way to the Red River, which is on the Texas/Oklahoma border! If true, that
would set a new record for longest cave!

Scott D. Boyd
scottd...@gmail.com
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Re: [Texascavers] comments

[Scott C via Texascavers]

When I walk through the forest, it's usually the trees that are different that 
stand out to me; the vibrant yellows and the fiery reds highlighted against the 
backdrop of green. All the trees are beautiful and make up the forest, but the 
colorful ones catch my eye and make me happy. Thanks David for your passion and 
making me happy :)

Sincerely,

Scott Cogburn
Greater Houston Grotto
Treasurer 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2016, at 8:17 AM, via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I’m with you, Geary, as well as Jon and Vivian in welcoming David back.
>  
> If the Internet bullies here (and you know who you are, or I could name names 
> if you’re unsure) don’t like his posts, use the freaking delete key!
>  
> It’s so easy!
>  
>  
> Mark Alman
> texascav...@yahoo.com
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Geary Schindel via Texascavers
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 7:43 AM
> To: 'texascavers@texascavers.com'
> Subject: [Texascavers] comments
>  
> I’ve been indisposed for a few weeks but have caught up with some emails.
>  
> Glad to see that David is back posting on Texascaver. It’s been a long dry 
> spell and I enjoy his commentary.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Geary Schindel
>  
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Re: [Texascavers] caver music related

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

They aren't anonymous - gmail app displays the names Charlie Loving and Bob
Oakley.

Scott D. Boyd
scottd...@gmail.com
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Re: [Texascavers] a caver question

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

I'm not obsessed with sports, but I did hear on the (TV) 10pm news that the
final game of the basketball playoffs was tonight. The regular season ended
in May (I think). The only sport I follow regularly is hockey (Dallas
Stars).

Scott D. Boyd
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR
Professional Transportation, Inc.
On Jun 19, 2016 9:56 PM, "David via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> I learned today that it was basketball season.
>
> I was just curious and wondering if you were all too busy caving or doing
> more important things to know that ?
>
> I know there are non-cavers that think I must have a mental deficiency,
> because I do not keep up with sports statistics.
>
> Everybody I am surrounded by at work and family are completely obsessed
> fanatics with sports statistics, yet they have no idea what a troglobitic
> catfish is.
>
> David Locklear
> dlocklea...@gmail.com
>
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>
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Re: [Texascavers] Airman's River Video

[Scott C via Texascavers]

Sweet videos! Thanks :)

Scott Cogburn
GHG

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2016, at 6:24 AM, Justin Shaw via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> As most of you know, much of Airman's Cave is once again functioning as an 
> active phreatic conduit. This last occurred in 1992, which I presume is still 
> the record high for the Barton Springs Segment of the EdwardsAquifer. 
> 
> Yesterday Galen Falgout and myself ventured into the aquifer to sample the 
> water, and we shot a few short video clips in the first section of the cave 
> that isn't sumped. They have been posted at these non-public links for 
> viewing by the local caving community:
> 
> Airman's River
> https://youtu.be/cl_5feblyHo
> 
> Airman's Cave with Water
> https://youtu.be/w8IT11p-8PQ
> 
> Crawling down Airman's River
> https://youtu.be/7UHpX8dTZ_0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justin Leigh Shaw
> 
> Cave Specialist 
> 
> jus...@oztotl.net - personal e-mail
> 
> justin.s...@austintexas.gov - work e-mail
> 
> 512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
> coherent manner" 
>   - John Trudell
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :

[Scott C via Texascavers]

Jerry,

Thanks! I really appreciate your thoughtful response and the information. Some 
of these steps I've been pursuing, but others are good insights that I haven't. 
Sometimes, this issue just really frustrates me. It's good to know that other 
people feel this way, too. However, it's sad to learn that this has been an 
ongoing issue for such a long time. Most everybody that I have met & caved with 
in our grotto and in the Texas caving community so far have been really solid 
people who are enthusiastic about caving and open to helping those around them 
enjoy the sport. I've learned from talking with some of these people though 
that there is an undercurrent of frustration with some of the seeming cliquish 
or closed off nature of cave access sometimes which discourages pursuit of the 
sport. Since I have come to really love caving, I hate to see people get 
discouraged, because of some sort of systemic problem. Anyways...Hopefully, 
with the continued awesome work of organizations like TCMA, etc... and behind 
the scenes work of individual cavers who are talking with landowners, more of 
these Texas caves can be opened up to the Texas caving community at large via 
grotto trips, etc...

Sincerely,

Scott Cogburn
Greater Houston Grotto
Treasurer 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2016, at 4:06 AM, Jerry via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> 
> You are not alone; this has been an issue for decades.  To find out about 
> Texas caves in general, I suggest getting the guidebook "The Caves and Karst 
> of Texas" which is available for $15 to TSA and NSS members from the Texas 
> Speleological Survey. Other county-specific publications on Texas caves are 
> available for free download from the TSS website.
> 
> To go caving, you have several options:
> 1.) Participate in TSA, TCMA, and TSS projects which are advertised on the 
> various Facebook pages and the TexasCavers listserve.
> 2.) Get the elder members of your grotto to coordinate more trips for the 
> members
> 3.) Mingle with folks at the TSA Convention and TCR that are involved with 
> caving in areas and caves that you are interested in
> 4.) Directly ask specific cave landowner contacts for a trip.
> 
> You probably will have to get out of your comfort zone a bit to get things 
> moving, but your interest and motivation will win the hearts and minds of 
> your fellow cavers.
> 
> Jerry Atkinson
> Texas Speleological Survey
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott C via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> To: texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Sent: Sat, Jun 11, 2016 12:18 pm
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Very interesting article :) Thanks! Sounds like a cool cave I and others in 
> our grotto would love to explore!
> 
> I might be wrong in this, but it seems like to me there might be a number of 
> these types of cool caves. Caves that were very popular in past years, but 
> for some reason or another, currently, a lot of newer cavers never here about 
> them anymore or don't seem to have access. I completely understand the issue 
> of landowner relations that you brought up in your article. It's just kind of 
> sad to me that more grotto members don't have access or knowledge of a lot of 
> these caves. I really hope that we can move to increase knowledge and access 
> to these awesome caves. I'd love to explore them, and I know a lot of other 
> newer cavers would as well. I mean we regularly here about and plan trips to 
> Robber Baron, Whirlpool, Logan's, Airman's, now O-9 Well, and Deep & Punkin' 
> which are awesome! However, the same small slate of caves kind of get stale 
> after a while. But then Midnight and others are right there in Carta Valley, 
> and the majority of us can't get into them. Only a small group with special 
> access visits them. That also happens with Perry Water Cave, and a number of 
> other caves in Texas. However, when we take our yearly grotto trip up to TAG, 
> even though we're total outsiders, we can get permits and visit tons of 
> outstanding caves! I just wish that here in our home state it didn't feel so 
> restricted, and like some sort of back-channel type of system for individuals 
> or grottos to visit all the terrific caves our state has to offer. Thanks.
> 
> Are you going to be at NSS this year? I'd like to check out your book.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Scott Cogburn
> Greater Houston Grotto
> Treasurer
> 
> 
> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:44 PM, Scott C via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Thanks so much for the link! I'll check it out :)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Scott Cog

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :

[Scott C via Texascavers]

Carl,
Very interesting article :) Thanks! Sounds like a cool cave I and others in our 
grotto would love to explore! 
I might be wrong in this, but it seems like to me there might be a number of 
these types of cool caves. Caves that were very popular in past years, but for 
some reason or another, currently, a lot of newer cavers never here about them 
anymore or don't seem to have access. I completely understand the issue of 
landowner relations that you brought up in your article. It's just kind of sad 
to me that more grotto members don't have access or knowledge of a lot of these 
caves. I really hope that we can move to increase knowledge and access to these 
awesome caves. I'd love to explore them, and I know a lot of other newer cavers 
would as well. I mean we regularly here about and plan trips to Robber Baron, 
Whirlpool, Logan's, Airman's, now O-9 Well, and Deep & Punkin' which are 
awesome! However, the same small slate of caves kind of get stale after a 
while. But then Midnight and others are right there in Carta Valley, and the 
majority of us can't get into them. Only a small group with special access 
visits them. That also happens with Perry Water Cave, and a number of other 
caves in Texas. However, when we take our yearly grotto trip up to TAG, even 
though we're total outsiders, we can get permits and visit tons of outstanding 
caves! I just wish that here in our home state it didn't feel so restricted, 
and like some sort of back-channel type of system for individuals or grottos to 
visit all the terrific caves our state has to offer. Thanks.
Are you going to be at NSS this year? I'd like to check out your book. 
Sincerely,
Scott CogburnGreater Houston GrottoTreasurer 

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:44 PM, Scott C via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
 

 Carl,
Thanks so much for the link! I'll check it out :)
Cheers,
Scott CogburnGreater Houston GrottoTreasurer 

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:08 PM, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
 

 #yiv3507101535 -- filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv3507101535 
filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3507101535 
p.yiv3507101535MsoNormal, #yiv3507101535 li.yiv3507101535MsoNormal, 
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{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:24.0pt;}#yiv3507101535 a:link, 
#yiv3507101535 span.yiv3507101535MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3507101535 a:visited, #yiv3507101535 
span.yiv3507101535MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3507101535 
span.yiv3507101535Heading1Char {color:#2E74B5;}#yiv3507101535 
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.yiv3507101535MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv3507101535 filtered 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv3507101535 div.yiv3507101535WordSection1 
{}#yiv3507101535 Jerry,  I plan to make a motion at tommorrow’s grotto meeting 
to help fund this.  Marvin  From: Texascavers 
[mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jerryatkin via 
Texascavers
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:29 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :  Just 
a reminder that the gate still needs funding.  Jerry.

Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Jerry <jerryat...@aol.com>
Date: June 9, 2016 at 3:21:56 AM MDT
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :


Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help
 Powell’s Cave is the second longest cave in Texas, with 26.1 km of surveyed 
passage. Treasure hunters dug the historic entrance open in the early 1900s and 
it is now stabilized with a concrete culvert installed by volunteer cavers in 
the late 1990s. The cave is used as a roost by a large colony of Cave Myotis 
(Myotis velifer). Recently, during a scheduled visit to the cave, it was 
discovered that trespassers had entered the cave and vandalized it, leaving 
cans, bottles, and other miscellaneous trash in the cave. Unfortunately, this 
also included spray-painting graffiti on the cave walls in the Crevice Passage 
(see attached photos).  Concerns about protecting the integrity of the cave as 
well as the vulnerable bat colony (estimated at about 10,000 individuals) have 
led to the decision to install an above ground, bat-friendly, cupola-style 
gate, similar to the one recently built for Ezell’s Cave in Hays County. Jim 
Kennedy of Kennedy Above/Under Ground LLC has been contracted to build the gate 
and it is hoped that it will be completed sometime in the next month or so. As 
part of the agreement with the landowner, cavers will be paying for the labor 
and ancillary costs of the gate construction, while the landowner will pay for 
the materials. This was done to support continuing landowner relations and 
demo

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :

[Scott C via Texascavers]

Carl,
Thanks so much for the link! I'll check it out :)
Cheers,
Scott CogburnGreater Houston GrottoTreasurer 

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:08 PM, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
 

 #yiv6121132741 #yiv6121132741 -- _filtered #yiv6121132741 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 
4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6121132741 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 
4 3 2 4;}#yiv6121132741 #yiv6121132741 p.yiv6121132741MsoNormal, #yiv6121132741 
li.yiv6121132741MsoNormal, #yiv6121132741 div.yiv6121132741MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6121132741 h1 
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:24.0pt;}#yiv6121132741 a:link, 
#yiv6121132741 span.yiv6121132741MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6121132741 a:visited, #yiv6121132741 
span.yiv6121132741MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6121132741 
span.yiv6121132741Heading1Char {color:#2E74B5;}#yiv6121132741 
span.yiv6121132741EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6121132741 
.yiv6121132741MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6121132741 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6121132741 div.yiv6121132741WordSection1 
{}#yiv6121132741 Jerry,  I plan to make a motion at tommorrow’s grotto meeting 
to help fund this.  Marvin  From: Texascavers 
[mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jerryatkin via 
Texascavers
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:29 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :  Just 
a reminder that the gate still needs funding.  Jerry.

Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Jerry <jerryat...@aol.com>
Date: June 9, 2016 at 3:21:56 AM MDT
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :


Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help
 Powell’s Cave is the second longest cave in Texas, with 26.1 km of surveyed 
passage. Treasure hunters dug the historic entrance open in the early 1900s and 
it is now stabilized with a concrete culvert installed by volunteer cavers in 
the late 1990s. The cave is used as a roost by a large colony of Cave Myotis 
(Myotis velifer). Recently, during a scheduled visit to the cave, it was 
discovered that trespassers had entered the cave and vandalized it, leaving 
cans, bottles, and other miscellaneous trash in the cave. Unfortunately, this 
also included spray-painting graffiti on the cave walls in the Crevice Passage 
(see attached photos).  Concerns about protecting the integrity of the cave as 
well as the vulnerable bat colony (estimated at about 10,000 individuals) have 
led to the decision to install an above ground, bat-friendly, cupola-style 
gate, similar to the one recently built for Ezell’s Cave in Hays County. Jim 
Kennedy of Kennedy Above/Under Ground LLC has been contracted to build the gate 
and it is hoped that it will be completed sometime in the next month or so. As 
part of the agreement with the landowner, cavers will be paying for the labor 
and ancillary costs of the gate construction, while the landowner will pay for 
the materials. This was done to support continuing landowner relations and 
demonstrate our commitment to the protection and stewardship of the cave. We 
need to raise approximately $3300 to cover our end of the deal.  If you are 
interested in helping the project, please consider a cash pledge to help in 
alleviating the costs. Powell’s Cave has been an important part of Texas caving 
for more than 50 years, and hopefully will be open to recreational caving and 
research for many years to come. If all goes well, there will be clean up and 
restoration trips in the future that folks can volunteer for. Any and all 
donations of time and money are greatly appreciated. Pledges can be sent to: 
Gerald Atkinson – Powell’s Cave liaisonjerryat...@aol.com If you have any 
questions, please email me. Thanks ! Photos courtesy of Arron Wertheim (May 
2016)





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Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

A thread of 17 messages so far and I see every sender's name, such as
"Crash Kennedy via Texascavers" at the top of the email. (Yes, my signature
follows.)

Scott D. Boyd
GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR
Professional Transportation, Inc.
On May 24, 2016 8:16 PM, "Crash Kennedy via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> But CaveTex strips out the senders name, so it just shows up as being from
> texascavers.com.  Therefore, if you (and everyone else) fails to put your
> name at the end of your posting, none of us know the author.  It's a common
> courtesy.
>
> Jim Kennedy
>
> 
>
>> My full name is in my email.  I haven't used a .sig since the '90s.
>>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Was: Join the NSS and Team 404, Now: Donate $$ and Buy-A-Brick

[Scott C via Texascavers]

st, both now & in the future, for 
the NSS and caving, as it is a sport and a people that I have come to value in 
my life. I hope you understand that it is in that vein that I write this 
letter. Thanks.
Sincerely,
Scott "Scotch" CogburnGreater Houston GrottoTreasurerNSS#67258



On Thursday, May 12, 2016 12:19 PM, Diana Tomchick via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
 

 Oops! A typo—I meant to write, “If I donate $900, can I get 9 contiguous 
bricks with an engraving.” I don’t actually have $9,000 to donate to charity in 
one year.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

> On May 12, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Cave Tex <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
>> The form for signing up for Team 404 is at 
>> http://caves.org/donate/HQ_Donation_Form.pdf.
> 
> I downloaded this form with the intention of directly donating money rather 
> than signing up for Team 404 (I thought, “why prolong the agony by giving a 
> paltry $25 per month, when I could just give a lump sum and be done with 
> it?”) and I see that there is a provision for
> 
> "Buy-A-Brick – For each $100 donation, we will laser engrave your message in 
> a brick for all to see. The bricks will be used for a patio area, walkways, 
> or other ornamental features."
> 
> and
> 
> "Buy-A-Block – For each $50 donation, we will designate one block in the 
> outer wall as “your block.” The block map will be on display in the new NSS 
> Headquarters and kept as a permanent record."
> 
> This made me scratch my head and wonder, “Why have I not heard about this 
> fund raising option?”, because I was more than happy to donate money to 
> upgrade the student union at my alma mater (University of Wisconsin) through 
> a similar ‘engrave a message on a paving stone’ fund raiser.
> 
> If I donate $9000, can I get 9 bricks adjacent to each other in a block with 
> a connected message? Could I get a cave map engraved on the bricks instead of 
> a message? How about an Oztotl design?
> 
> If the NSS wants people to donate the money quickly, they would not only make 
> this feasible, they would be advertising this to their internal 
> organizations. I do believe that our local grotto would gladly “Buy-A-Brick”, 
> and I suspect that other Texas I/Os would be interested, too.
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
>> On May 12, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> As said I would do in the last paragraph of my e-mail below sent three days 
>> ago. I asked for a show of hands of who is NOT an NSS member at last night’s 
>> DFW Grotto meeting. Our attendance was unusually low last night, but I am 
>> pleased to follow-up and report that of the ten members present, only one 
>> raised his hand that he is not an NSS member. I read my paragraph below out 
>> loud and frowned at him, which brought a laugh. We went on to discuss Team 
>> 404 and the new headquarters.
>> 
>> Cavingly,
>> 
>> Bill Steele
>> cwilliamste...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10 May 2016 at 7:40, Bill Steele via Texascavers wrote:
>> 
>> This would be a good opportunity to bring up something that most grottos 
>> seem to have a misunderstanding about. Numerous grottos believe that members 
>> don't have to be NSS members unless they are in a leadership position in the 
>> grotto.  This is incorrect.  This came up at the NSS Board of Governors 
>> meeting in Bend, Oregon in March.
>> 
>> The rules are written so people can be grotto members and not be an NSS 
>> member for up to a year. After that, they are expected to join the NSS or 
>> stop being a grotto member.
>> 
>> Here it is the relevant snippet regarding IOs (Internal Organizations, i.e. 
>> grottos, surveys, etc.):
>> 
>> 5. The membership of IOs shall conform to the following requirements:
>> 
>> A.  All persons who serve on the governing board of an IO must be a member 
>> of the NSS except in the case of Surveys where representatives of state 
>> entities or other co

Re: [Texascavers] Best padlocks for cave gates

[Travis Scott via Texascavers]

Thanks Jim!

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jim 
Kennedy via Texascavers
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 3:18 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Best padlocks for cave gates

 

Travis,

 

Having been involved with dozens (maybe hundreds) of cave gates around the 
country, I recommend brass Best locks. And stay away from any rubberized locks, 
they aren't any better and usually cost more. Lubricate with powdered graphite 
only, no oil or WD40 or such. And change out the locks periodically, especially 
in wet, muddy, or dusty situations.

 

Despite what what Mixon espouses, cave resources are definitely worth 
protecting, and arguably more valuable than my house and possessions. Those can 
be replaced. That's why the old NSS "Cave Gating" book and it's "weak link" 
philosophy of gating are obsolete. For a more up-to-date approach, check out 
the cave gate chapter in NSS' "Cave Conservation and Restoration" book. All 
this, of course, assumes a well-designed and constructed gate. A poor gate can 
have entirely the opposite effect, and cause more problems than it solves. 

 

All it takes is one jerk to ruin things forever. The Butterfly at Caverns of 
Sonora is a prime example. 

 

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone


On Apr 4, 2016, at 8:58 AM, Travis Scott via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

Folks,

I have recently been struggling with the padlocks on cave gates that have 
become corroded and basically unusable.  Even brand new padlocks that were 
placed on the gate and left for a few years are becoming unusable.  These gates 
are designed with an arm hole which allows you to reach the padlock hanging on 
the inside of a solid gate. Once the padlock is removed, a lever is moved and 
the gate opens. The problem is that the padlocks sit in the wet warm 
environment (sometimes years at a time) collecting dust, dirt and corrosion as 
air moves past due to the cave breathing. Several locks have recently taken 
over an hour to open whilst in the most uncomfortable positions, meanwhile with 
the fear that the key might break off in the lock or the lock will never open, 
etc..

I am wondering if anyone has had the experience or research to whittle down the 
best types of locks that can handle this environment and still continue to 
function properly. I have researched corrosion aspects of different tumblers 
(no real conclusion on which is best). Other cavers have told me that the locks 
with the rubber housing around the entire lock, including the key hole, are no 
better than a normal Masterlock for example. We have tried both the most 
expensive locks and the cheaper ones, but none seem to hold up.

Does anyone have any experience with this or have any light they can shed? 

 

Thank you so very much!!!

 

 

Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)

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[Texascavers] Best padlocks for cave gates - advice needed

[Travis Scott via Texascavers]

Folks,

I have recently been struggling with the padlocks on cave gates that have
become corroded and basically unusable.  Even brand new padlocks that were
placed on the gate and left for a few years are becoming unusable.  These
gates are designed with an arm hole which allows you to reach the padlock
hanging on the inside of a solid gate. Once the padlock is removed, a lever
is moved and the gate opens. The problem is that the padlocks sit in the wet
warm environment (sometimes years at a time) collecting dust, dirt and
corrosion as air moves past due to the cave breathing. Several locks have
recently taken over an hour to open whilst in the most uncomfortable
positions, meanwhile with the fear that the key might break off in the lock
or the lock will never open, etc..

I am wondering if anyone has had the experience or research to whittle down
the best types of locks that can handle this environment and still continue
to function properly. I have researched corrosion aspects of different
tumblers (no real conclusion on which is best). Other cavers have told me
that the locks with the rubber housing around the entire lock, including the
key hole, are no better than a normal Masterlock for example. We have tried
both the most expensive locks and the cheaper ones, but none seem to hold
up.

Does anyone have any experience with this or have any light they can shed? 

 

Thank you so very much!!!

 

 

Travis Scott
 <mailto:tra...@oztotl.com> tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)

 

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Re: [Texascavers] Spring TSA meeting

[Ann Scott via Texascavers]

Geary and others---the date for TSA Spring Convention is April 22-24, 2016. Any 
further details will have to come from future Vice Chair, Jim Kennedy. It will 
be at the Edwards County Fairgrounds facilities in Rocksprings.

Ann Scott


On Dec 8, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Geary Schindel via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> Has a date for the spring TSA meeting been set yet.
> 
> I'm trying to schedule some additional meetings and wanted to check.
> 
> Geary
> 
> Geary M. Schindel, P.G.
> Chief Technical Officer/Director
> Aquifer Science
> 
> [EAA Logo Signature Color.jpg]
> 900 E Quincy
> San Antonio, Tx 78215
> Main: (210) 222-2204
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Spring TSA meeting

[Ann Scott via Texascavers]

Sorry about that premature announcement everyone! Please be sure to keep your 
eyes ready for Crash's announcements! We should know soon!
Ann
TSA Treasurer, out-going

On Dec 8, 2015, at 12:30 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
 wrote:

> 
> Folks, please belay any previous announcements about the TSA Spring 
> Convention. They are premature. We do not yet have confirmation on the dates 
> or the site yet. But if all goes as planned, it will be the dates and site 
> mentioned. Believe me, after the first of the year you will be inundated with 
> my big media blitz promoting said event. 
> 
> Jim "Crash" Kennedy
> TSA Vice-Chair Elect
> and TSA Spring Convention Coordinator
> 
> Mobile email from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Geary Schindel via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Has a date for the spring TSA meeting been set yet.
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Re: [Texascavers] Secrecy

[Travis Scott via Texascavers]

Well, with weazel's, narcissistic and condescending rhetoric behind us, I
have some perspective on these subjects as I have been very involved with
them (in Texas) for years.

 

I am not an advocate of hiding cave data or being secretive about cave
locations by any means.  However, in Texas, most caves are on private land
and in order to visit them, cavers are granted access (a huge privilege
actually) to someone's private property.   There have been many, many times
that access has been permanently lost (or lost for decades) due to
mishandling of the caver-owner relationship.  I just learned of another lost
access yesterday actually.  

 

A few examples I have seen repeat themselves since the Texas caving heyday
of the 60's.  1. A rancher grants access to a single caver who then manages
trips to the cave.  Then, someone else just goes to the cave on their own
because they feel empowered to do so since they have the location( and have
the attitudes we see in the last email).  Next thing you know, the owner has
lost trust in cavers and cave access is shut down forever.  2. There is not
a single cave-owner contact and the owner gets fed up with random people
asking to come visit his cave and simply decides he is done..  3. A mix of
the two examples above occurs but the cave's location is out in public so
people just trespass like crazy and this pisses off the owner.  So he not
only shuts out access, but he gates the cave too.  4. Or the cavers are just
simply rude, mean, or unappreciative of the privilege the owner has given
them of which the owners get very little in return for.

 

History has shown, repeatedly, that if a Texas cave owner doesn't want us to
share any info about our actions, it would be best advised to listen.  If
spreading the location of an easy accessible cave to the world would cause
grief to the owner, go against his wishes, there is a good chance access
will be lost.  It has shown that if we do not respect the owner, we will
lose access.  If we bombard him with trespassing, we will lose access, etc
etc. 

 

Unfortunately, we are stuck in this situation in Texas and therefore have to
follow some, dare I say, 'social norms', in order to pursue our caving
adventures.  That is simply how it is.  If this means not sharing some info,
that's how it goes.

 

I understand the frustration that some data is proprietary or kept quiet,
but for many properties around the state, including many of the absolute
BEST caves the state has to offer, cavers are forced to keep a level of
discreetness if any access is to be maintained.  That's just how it is.
Reckless idealism like was just expressed below does no good for our
situation in Texas.. 

 

The best way to get 'younger flesh involved' is to keep passing on the torch
to the younger generation and take them on these proprietary trips.  Guess
what, this is actually happening underground in Texas all the time.

 

 

Regarding the TSS.  The TSS is not a proprietary organization that will
hoard your data and never let it go just so the officers can go play in your
caves.  It is quite the opposite.  We don't spread all cave data around the
world haphazardly, rather it is a give and take relationship.  We collect
info so that the caver community can utilize it in our exploration efforts.
If anyone has any questions about specific caves or properties around the
state, just ask!  If the cave info happens to be one of the few proprietary
situations due to the owners wishes (or whatever the reason), then the TSS
is forced to respect that.  And honestly, that is a good thing!  

 

This  type of sentiment is actually making it harder to cave in Texas.  Greg
just stated that he is holding 25 file drawers of cave data from the TSS.
(Isn't that a form of secrecy in its own right?)  The TSS was created SOLELY
to collect this type of info into a database so that it can be utilized and
built upon by the caving community.  It is a repository for this type of
data specifically for the caving community.  We will even digitize the data,
clean it up, and bring it into a more accessible medium.  The data is also
then protected against things like fire or flood as well.  If we do not
share the data with the TSS or anyone else, then that info, that work, that
effort, is lost and someone of another generation will just have to do it
again if the opportunity ever presents itself.

 

 

Anyways, I felt obligated to respond to this because access to cave location
(and other info) it isn't always that black and white.  I have watched
access disappear far too many times, and have struggled to keep caver-owner
relationships in check for years as well.  I also responded because the TSS
was created for the reciprocal sharing of cave data to better our caving
community and I feel that a lot of people purposefully don't work with them
due to misunderstandings like these..  I don't know if that all came out
well or not, but I hope it at least helps quell some of the fears of 

[Texascavers] Kiwi Sink is For Sale

[Travis Scott via Texascavers]

Howdy Cavers,

 

I just wanted to spread the word that Kiwi Sink in the Driftwood area has
come up for sale by owner.  It is on two acres off of Billie Brooks Lane in
Hays County (amongst the small caver community there).  The property has a
fairly large 4/2 mobile home, garage/barn and some other items.  Kiwi Sink
is a somewhat significant recharge feature that local cavers have excavated
over the years to approximately 102.3m long and 17.5m deep.  The owner hopes
that cavers can acquire it, but is putting it on the market and it will be
open to anyone.  He has verbally mentioned an asking price of $167,000 for
the property at this time.

 

If you or anyone you know might be interested in purchasing the property and
cave, please let me know and I will get you in touch with the owner.
Thanks!!

 

Travis Scott
 mailto:tra...@oztotl.com tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)

 

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[Texascavers] TSS Online Data Submissions

[Travis Scott via Texascavers]

Howdy Texas Cavers,

As you hopefully know, the Texas Speleological Survey collects, 
organizes, and maintains information on Texas caves and karst, as well 
as provides that data back to cavers who are actively out there caving 
in the state.  We recently overhauled our website which you need to 
check out.  The new site also has a new and wonderful online submission 
tool for submitting data into our database.  Last weekend at TCR I 
talked with many folks who are actively finding, exploring, and 
surveying caves.  Some of this information has not been submitted to the 
database.  So I urge you to check out the new submission page and dig 
out your recent surveys and cave data!


We had our first submission on the new website this week and would like 
to thank Ben Hutchins for the submission!  He also offered comments and 
ideas on how we can improve it, so please feel free to do the same!  
Thanks again Ben!


Why should you submit data?  A quick story from this past week:  A land 
owner finds hole on his property, the land owner contacts cavers looking 
for information on the cave.  The caver requests data from TSS on caves 
near land owner (thanks Gregg!).  The caver shares this data with the 
land owner and verifies that the cave has been explored and documented 
already.  Caver provides the owner a map, cave description, and photos 
from TSS database.  This saves the caver a long trip to a small cave, 
and from having to remap and rephoto a previously mapped and 
photographed cave, and makes the land owner happy.  Now the caver has an 
open invitation to come caving any time.  This was made possible by a 
wonderful symbiotic relationship between the TSS and caving public, and 
by submitters like you!


So seriously folks, lets continue to share our data and improve caving 
across the state!


Main TSS Website:
http://texasspeleologicalsurvey.org/index.php

Data Submission Page
http://texasspeleologicalsurvey.org/data_submit/submit_data_page_1.php

*Travis Scott*
TSS, TCMA, TSA, NSS, Porcupine Grotto, Old-ASS

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[Texascavers] Ranch with 2 caves up for sale

[Scott Boyd via Texascavers]

For those that are in the market for some ranch land with two caves - AND
you don't want to check it out thru Facebook, here's the link:

Falling Waters Ranch
http://www.jlockhartrealestate.com/FallingWatersRanch.html


Scott D. Boyd
scottd...@gmail.com

GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR
*Professional Transportation, Inc.*
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[Texascavers] Keystone XL Pledge - Not Directly caving related

[scott grimes]

Howdy Yall,

For those not in the loop- the keystone pipeline is in it's last 90-day
window before final approval is given, the administration has opened this
window to allow the public to voice it's opinion before a final decision is
made.

The environmental impact report which was published by the state department
(that claims there will not be any environmental impact) was contracted out
to Environmental Resources Management, a company which receives direct
funding from TransCanada, the builder of the pipeline. Their own website
states that ERM receives a substantial portion of our annual revenue comes
from projects with mining, oil and gas, and other energy companies.

In addition to this blatant conflict of interest, there is a large amount
of data which shows that there will be significant environmental damage
from the pipeline. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has
produced numerous studies backing this up, as have a plethora of other
groups.

I know a great many of you cavers hold strong opinions about the
environment, and the damage and eventual climate change exacerbation that
will come from the pipeline will effect us all (and the ecosystems we love
to explore).

I invite you to pledge to protest this, you can follow the link below to
receive more information about protests and the organizing groups around
austin that will host the protests over the next few months.

http://act.credoaction.com/sign/kxl_pledge

I pledge, if necessary, to join others in my community, and engage in acts
of dignified, peaceful civil disobedience that could result in my arrest in
order to send the message to President Obama and his administration that
they must reject the Keystone XL pipeline.

Regards,
Scott Grimes
UT Grotto / Old Ass

Re: [Texascavers] Neversink frozen winter splendor :

[scott grimes]

A fellow texas caver Rachel Saker, (from the aggie grotto) also dropped
neversink during the big freeze in alabama, I'd expect her to post pictures
to facebook sometime soon. Very cool looking!

scott


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:53 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote:


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2539778/Alabama-cave-freezes-time-explorers-discover-hundreds-glistening-ice-stalagmite.html?ITO=1490ns_mchannel=rssns_campaign=1490


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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election Results

[Ann Scott]

Thank you for the 87 votes of confidence!!
I look forward to serving the TSA!!
Ann


On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:13 AM, ellie watson ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote:

 President # Votes
 Kurt Menking  87
 Don Arburn (write-in) 2
 Jim Kennedy (write-in)1
 
 
 Vice-President# Votes
 Roger Moore   89
 Mark Gee (write-in)   1
 
 
 Treasurer # Votes
 Anne Scott87
 
 
 Secretary # Votes
 Heather Tucek 90
 
 
 On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Julia Germany germa...@aol.com wrote:
 
 I ditto that request.
 
 Thanks!
 julia
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Jim Kennedy cavercr...@gmail.com
 To: Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com
 Cc: Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com; ellie.thoene ellie.tho...@gmail.com; 
 texas cavers texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:21 pm
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election Results
 
 I, for one, would like to see the total elections results, including 
 write-ins, invalid votes, etc. 
 
 Jim
 
 Mobile email from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Does this come as a big surprise to anyone, since there was only one 
 candidate for each office?
 
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
 From: donarb...@mac.com
 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:40:00 -0500
 To: ellie.tho...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election Results
 
 Congratulations!!
 
 Sent cellularly.
 -Don
 
 On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:19 AM, ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 TSA Members, 
 
 TSA Annual Officer Elections closed October 4th and I am happy to announce 
 the following winners:
 
 Chairman- Kurt Menking
 Vice-Chairman - Roger Moore
 Secretary -Heather Tucek
 Treasurer- Anne Scott
 
 Elected officers will take office on the first day of the New Year 2014. 
 
 We had a 49% voter participation of all registered members with email 
 addresses on file.  Thank you for voting and thanks for your support of TSA!
 
 


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[SWR] New genus of bat described in Sudan

[Scott Nicolay]

http://www.thefeaturedcreature.com/2013/04/new-genus-of-bat-discovered-looks-just-like-a-tiny-flying-badger.html___
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[SWR] New genus of bat described in Sudan

[Scott Nicolay]

http://www.thefeaturedcreature.com/2013/04/new-genus-of-bat-discovered-looks-just-like-a-tiny-flying-badger.html___
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[SWR] New genus of bat described in Sudan

[Scott Nicolay]

http://www.thefeaturedcreature.com/2013/04/new-genus-of-bat-discovered-looks-just-like-a-tiny-flying-badger.html___
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Re: [SWR] NCKRI cover photo correction

[Scott Nicolay]

Prehistoric mining of epsomite and mirabilite by Native Americans in the 
Mammoth Cave system and other caves in the Southeast has been thoroughly 
documented. Sometimes it was even consumed in situ for medicinal and/or 
ceremonial purgative effects. 

It is very likely that this occurred in the SW, too. Obviously any formations 
that disappeared historically were the victims of vandalism. But breakage or 
damage to the cave surface around the locations of these minerals might be 
prehistoric. Of course, vandalism would also destroy such evidence of 
prehistoric use. Probably not applicable in this case, but something to look 
out for. I would be interested to know of SW caves where these minerals occur 
or have been known to occur in quantity, particularly in conjunction with 
coprolites, or of any possible evidence for prehistoric mineral mining of any 
kind within our region's caves. 

Not to hijack the thread or anything. 
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Re: [SWR] NCKRI cover photo correction

[Scott Nicolay]

Prehistoric mining of epsomite and mirabilite by Native Americans in the 
Mammoth Cave system and other caves in the Southeast has been thoroughly 
documented. Sometimes it was even consumed in situ for medicinal and/or 
ceremonial purgative effects. 

It is very likely that this occurred in the SW, too. Obviously any formations 
that disappeared historically were the victims of vandalism. But breakage or 
damage to the cave surface around the locations of these minerals might be 
prehistoric. Of course, vandalism would also destroy such evidence of 
prehistoric use. Probably not applicable in this case, but something to look 
out for. I would be interested to know of SW caves where these minerals occur 
or have been known to occur in quantity, particularly in conjunction with 
coprolites, or of any possible evidence for prehistoric mineral mining of any 
kind within our region's caves. 

Not to hijack the thread or anything. 
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Re: [SWR] NCKRI cover photo correction

[Scott Nicolay]

Prehistoric mining of epsomite and mirabilite by Native Americans in the 
Mammoth Cave system and other caves in the Southeast has been thoroughly 
documented. Sometimes it was even consumed in situ for medicinal and/or 
ceremonial purgative effects. 

It is very likely that this occurred in the SW, too. Obviously any formations 
that disappeared historically were the victims of vandalism. But breakage or 
damage to the cave surface around the locations of these minerals might be 
prehistoric. Of course, vandalism would also destroy such evidence of 
prehistoric use. Probably not applicable in this case, but something to look 
out for. I would be interested to know of SW caves where these minerals occur 
or have been known to occur in quantity, particularly in conjunction with 
coprolites, or of any possible evidence for prehistoric mineral mining of any 
kind within our region's caves. 

Not to hijack the thread or anything. 
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Re: [Texascavers] El Paso Cave Man

[Scott Boyd]

I haven't lived in El Paso in about 35 years, but if I remember correctly,
McKelligon Canyon is a city park IN El Paso, not outside El Paso. That
would be public land, right?

Scott

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:

  What does Texas law say about living in a cave? Is it on private or
 public land (although there's almost no public land in Texas). Is he
 damaging the cave? (I guess rubbing up against the walls and speleothems is
 damage.

  --
 From: pns_...@bellsouth.net
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:58:58 -0600
 Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso Cave Man


 Here is some Yahoo news from west Texas.

 http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/cave-man-el-paso-texas-144559675.html


 Preston in KY

Re: [Texascavers] El Paso Cave Man

[Scott Boyd]

I haven't lived in El Paso in about 35 years, but if I remember correctly,
McKelligon Canyon is a city park IN El Paso, not outside El Paso. That
would be public land, right?

Scott

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:

  What does Texas law say about living in a cave? Is it on private or
 public land (although there's almost no public land in Texas). Is he
 damaging the cave? (I guess rubbing up against the walls and speleothems is
 damage.

  --
 From: pns_...@bellsouth.net
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:58:58 -0600
 Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso Cave Man


 Here is some Yahoo news from west Texas.

 http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/cave-man-el-paso-texas-144559675.html


 Preston in KY

Re: [Texascavers] El Paso Cave Man

[Scott Boyd]

I haven't lived in El Paso in about 35 years, but if I remember correctly,
McKelligon Canyon is a city park IN El Paso, not outside El Paso. That
would be public land, right?

Scott

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:

  What does Texas law say about living in a cave? Is it on private or
 public land (although there's almost no public land in Texas). Is he
 damaging the cave? (I guess rubbing up against the walls and speleothems is
 damage.

  --
 From: pns_...@bellsouth.net
 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 16:58:58 -0600
 Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso Cave Man


 Here is some Yahoo news from west Texas.

 http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/cave-man-el-paso-texas-144559675.html


 Preston in KY

[Texascavers] FYI Bear Sightings in Texas

[Travis Scott]

Hey all,

Just some info cavers might oughta be aware of:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20121127c

Mountain Lions, Tigers (ringtails maybe?) and Bears, Oh no!   Keep your 
eyes peeled...


--
Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


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[Texascavers] FYI Bear Sightings in Texas

[Travis Scott]

Hey all,

Just some info cavers might oughta be aware of:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20121127c

Mountain Lions, Tigers (ringtails maybe?) and Bears, Oh no!   Keep your 
eyes peeled...


--
Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


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[Texascavers] FYI Bear Sightings in Texas

[Travis Scott]

Hey all,

Just some info cavers might oughta be aware of:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20121127c

Mountain Lions, Tigers (ringtails maybe?) and Bears, Oh no!   Keep your 
eyes peeled...


--
Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


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[Texascavers] TSS work session canceled tonight

[Ann Scott]

The TSS work session will not be happening this evening. Sorry for any 
inconvenience. 
We will see you in December!! 
Ann

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[Texascavers] TSS work session canceled tonight

[Ann Scott]

The TSS work session will not be happening this evening. Sorry for any 
inconvenience. 
We will see you in December!! 
Ann

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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: CM Cave Climb 2012-06-09

[Scott Boyd]

Lyndon - That's right - we don't all bow down to the allegedly
all-mighty Facebook. 8-)

Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
sleeping in a cave or something...

Scott

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:
 I see not everyone is on Facebook to hear about it :(

 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:06 AM,  jerryat...@aol.com wrote:
 A new editor for the TxCvr ?  Anyone want to elaborate on this new
 development ?

 Jerry.

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Re: [Texascavers] Change of TC Editor

[Scott Boyd]

Yes - my mistake!! Mark had posted to a TSA page on Facebook (I
guess), and FB emailed it to me even though I rarely visit FB. Sorry
to have caused all the confusion!

Here's the meat of the posting (copied from Mark's post):

New TC Editor Announcement!

Jill Orr has graciously offered to assume the mantle of Editor
Extraordinairre for The TEXAS CAVER. beginning with the 3rd quarter
2012 issue, and serving as such into infinity and beyond (or until she
gets burned out and wants to hand it over to some other hapless
victim, er, um, experienced thespian!).

Halle-freakin'-lujah!

Thanks to everyone here who has ever sent me material for publication
and a tremendous WAGGING FINGER to those of you too lazy or too busy
with FB to have never bothered!

Now, ALL OF YOU HERE. need to send her material or, I swear to God, I
will come over with a crowbar and start breaking kneecaps,
Sopranos-style!

Thanks, Jill, I really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, appreciate it!

-

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Carl Kunath carl.kun...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Like so many others, I didn’t get that message.
 Did it actually go out on TexasCavers or was it only a FB reference?

 Scott, perhaps you could forward to TexasCavers the message you refer to.

 ===Carl Kunath

 

 From: speleoste...@aol.com
 I didn't either.

 l...@alumni.sfu.ca writes:
 I did not get that memo via CaveTex either.

 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Scott Boyd scottd...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
 mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
 sleeping in a cave or something...


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: CM Cave Climb 2012-06-09

[Scott Boyd]

Lyndon - That's right - we don't all bow down to the allegedly
all-mighty Facebook. 8-)

Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
sleeping in a cave or something...

Scott

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:
 I see not everyone is on Facebook to hear about it :(

 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:06 AM,  jerryat...@aol.com wrote:
 A new editor for the TxCvr ?  Anyone want to elaborate on this new
 development ?

 Jerry.

 Sent from my iPhone


-
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Change of TC Editor

[Scott Boyd]

Yes - my mistake!! Mark had posted to a TSA page on Facebook (I
guess), and FB emailed it to me even though I rarely visit FB. Sorry
to have caused all the confusion!

Here's the meat of the posting (copied from Mark's post):

New TC Editor Announcement!

Jill Orr has graciously offered to assume the mantle of Editor
Extraordinairre for The TEXAS CAVER. beginning with the 3rd quarter
2012 issue, and serving as such into infinity and beyond (or until she
gets burned out and wants to hand it over to some other hapless
victim, er, um, experienced thespian!).

Halle-freakin'-lujah!

Thanks to everyone here who has ever sent me material for publication
and a tremendous WAGGING FINGER to those of you too lazy or too busy
with FB to have never bothered!

Now, ALL OF YOU HERE. need to send her material or, I swear to God, I
will come over with a crowbar and start breaking kneecaps,
Sopranos-style!

Thanks, Jill, I really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, appreciate it!

-

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Carl Kunath carl.kun...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Like so many others, I didn’t get that message.
 Did it actually go out on TexasCavers or was it only a FB reference?

 Scott, perhaps you could forward to TexasCavers the message you refer to.

 ===Carl Kunath

 

 From: speleoste...@aol.com
 I didn't either.

 l...@alumni.sfu.ca writes:
 I did not get that memo via CaveTex either.

 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Scott Boyd scottd...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
 mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
 sleeping in a cave or something...


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: CM Cave Climb 2012-06-09

[Scott Boyd]

Lyndon - That's right - we don't all bow down to the allegedly
all-mighty Facebook. 8-)

Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
sleeping in a cave or something...

Scott

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:
 I see not everyone is on Facebook to hear about it :(

 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:06 AM,  jerryat...@aol.com wrote:
 A new editor for the TxCvr ?  Anyone want to elaborate on this new
 development ?

 Jerry.

 Sent from my iPhone


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Change of TC Editor

[Scott Boyd]

Yes - my mistake!! Mark had posted to a TSA page on Facebook (I
guess), and FB emailed it to me even though I rarely visit FB. Sorry
to have caused all the confusion!

Here's the meat of the posting (copied from Mark's post):

New TC Editor Announcement!

Jill Orr has graciously offered to assume the mantle of Editor
Extraordinairre for The TEXAS CAVER. beginning with the 3rd quarter
2012 issue, and serving as such into infinity and beyond (or until she
gets burned out and wants to hand it over to some other hapless
victim, er, um, experienced thespian!).

Halle-freakin'-lujah!

Thanks to everyone here who has ever sent me material for publication
and a tremendous WAGGING FINGER to those of you too lazy or too busy
with FB to have never bothered!

Now, ALL OF YOU HERE. need to send her material or, I swear to God, I
will come over with a crowbar and start breaking kneecaps,
Sopranos-style!

Thanks, Jill, I really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, appreciate it!

-

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Carl Kunath carl.kun...@suddenlink.net wrote:
 Like so many others, I didn’t get that message.
 Did it actually go out on TexasCavers or was it only a FB reference?

 Scott, perhaps you could forward to TexasCavers the message you refer to.

 ===Carl Kunath

 

 From: speleoste...@aol.com
 I didn't either.

 l...@alumni.sfu.ca writes:
 I did not get that memo via CaveTex either.

 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Scott Boyd scottd...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
 mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
 sleeping in a cave or something...


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] [Texas Cavers Reunion 2012]

[Amanda Scott]

Thanks Don!   Sounds awesome.  : )

Sent from Amanda's iPhone

On Jun 1, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Arburn Don d...@oztotl.com wrote:

 O.K. Texas Cavers, this is it, the official announcement for Texas Cavers 
 Reunion 2012!!
 
 October 18, 19, 20  21, 2012 is the date.
 
 Paradise Canyon is the place.
 
 For those who know, it's a great place in south Texas for car camping and 
 caver camaraderie. The park has grown in size since our last TCR there, the 
 camping extends all the way to the downstream bridge. There will be 
 additional bathrooms and cabin facilities for those who want to splurge and 
 get A/C and a bed. The rest of us will have very nice campsites down by the 
 Medina River. The park has improved many of the banks along the river and 
 added more picnic tables. Paradise Canyon is a wonderful place for our 
 Speleolympics, Hot Tub, Big Feed, Swimming, Awards, carousing, fun and of 
 course - The Parade!  This year's theme:  2012; Mayan Apocalypse!
 
 Prices, Menu, Facebook and other specifics will be forthcoming.
 
 d...@oztotl.com
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 

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For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] [Texas Cavers Reunion 2012]

[Amanda Scott]

Thanks Don!   Sounds awesome.  : )

Sent from Amanda's iPhone

On Jun 1, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Arburn Don d...@oztotl.com wrote:

 O.K. Texas Cavers, this is it, the official announcement for Texas Cavers 
 Reunion 2012!!
 
 October 18, 19, 20  21, 2012 is the date.
 
 Paradise Canyon is the place.
 
 For those who know, it's a great place in south Texas for car camping and 
 caver camaraderie. The park has grown in size since our last TCR there, the 
 camping extends all the way to the downstream bridge. There will be 
 additional bathrooms and cabin facilities for those who want to splurge and 
 get A/C and a bed. The rest of us will have very nice campsites down by the 
 Medina River. The park has improved many of the banks along the river and 
 added more picnic tables. Paradise Canyon is a wonderful place for our 
 Speleolympics, Hot Tub, Big Feed, Swimming, Awards, carousing, fun and of 
 course - The Parade!  This year's theme:  2012; Mayan Apocalypse!
 
 Prices, Menu, Facebook and other specifics will be forthcoming.
 
 d...@oztotl.com
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] [Texas Cavers Reunion 2012]

[Amanda Scott]

Thanks Don!   Sounds awesome.  : )

Sent from Amanda's iPhone

On Jun 1, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Arburn Don d...@oztotl.com wrote:

 O.K. Texas Cavers, this is it, the official announcement for Texas Cavers 
 Reunion 2012!!
 
 October 18, 19, 20  21, 2012 is the date.
 
 Paradise Canyon is the place.
 
 For those who know, it's a great place in south Texas for car camping and 
 caver camaraderie. The park has grown in size since our last TCR there, the 
 camping extends all the way to the downstream bridge. There will be 
 additional bathrooms and cabin facilities for those who want to splurge and 
 get A/C and a bed. The rest of us will have very nice campsites down by the 
 Medina River. The park has improved many of the banks along the river and 
 added more picnic tables. Paradise Canyon is a wonderful place for our 
 Speleolympics, Hot Tub, Big Feed, Swimming, Awards, carousing, fun and of 
 course - The Parade!  This year's theme:  2012; Mayan Apocalypse!
 
 Prices, Menu, Facebook and other specifics will be forthcoming.
 
 d...@oztotl.com
 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 

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Re: [Texascavers] weather

[Scott Boyd]

Despite the funnel clouds south of us, we had no damage here in Crowley.
Just heavy rain and marble-size hail.

Scott

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Karen Perry txcavem...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Hope all in DFW area are OK. Sounds like its bad
 Karen

Re: [Texascavers] weather

[Scott Boyd]

Despite the funnel clouds south of us, we had no damage here in Crowley.
Just heavy rain and marble-size hail.

Scott

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Karen Perry txcavem...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Hope all in DFW area are OK. Sounds like its bad
 Karen

Re: [Texascavers] CWAN Trip Report - January 28, 2012

[Ann Scott]

Ben,
How cool...the Capricorn Party Room!! Forever recorded in cave survey history!
Ann, a Capricorn

Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Benjamin Schwartz b...@txstate.edu wrote:

 January 28, 2012
 
 Cave Without A Name, Kinney County, TX
 
 Crew: Benjamin Hutchins, Benjamin Tobin, Benjamin Schwartz (Ben3)
 
 Report by: Benjamin Schwartz
 
 After a slow start leaving San Marcos on Saturday morning, the three of us 
 piled into my truck and headed out to the cave. On the way we had to stop 
 twice - once for breakfast tacos and another time for batteries (both 
 critical caving supplies), but we made it to the cave before 10:00 am. 
 Checking in with Mike Burrell, he reported that the water at our gauging weir 
 was up a mere 0.08 feet after all the heavy rain in the region earlier in the 
 previous week. The area around CWAN only got about 1.5 inches, and the stream 
 level hardly budged,   while other areas nearby got several times that 
 amount and experienced more serious flooding.
 
 The plan for the day was to go to the Waterfall Room at the current upstream 
 end of the cave and continue pushing a virgin upper level stream crawl that 
 Brett Gerard, Ben Hutchins and I had turned around in on the previous trip to 
 this part of the cave. During the previous two years, a group of us have 
 systematically resurveyed the known cave in order to create a high quality 
 map and (we hoped) find additional cave passage. Sometime last fall, the last 
 previously enjoyed passage was surveyed and we were able to start pushing and 
 surveying some of the many virgin leads that remained. Admittedly, a number 
 of them are not very attractive when compared with the main stream passage, 
 but there is good airflow moving through parts of the cave and I am convinced 
 that there is potential for a significant amount of additional passage to be 
 found.
 
 Our goal for the day was 260 m, which was the amount required to move CWAN up 
 a notch in the TX long cave list. Quickly changing into our wetsuits and 
 gearing up, we managed to leave the parking lot and enter the cave before 
 scaring off too many tourists. We told Mike to expect us by midnight and 
 headed upstream around 10:40. A little while later, we looked at each other 
 and realized that none of us had a watch with us. This was strangely 
 reminiscent of the last trip into the cave! I sloshed and jogged back to the 
 surface, got my watch, and rejoined the others at 11:00 – finally we could 
 really move!
 
 The trip upstream took around two hours as we swam, crawled,   waded, and 
 salamandered through the ~2.5 km of stream passage between the Tour Route and 
 the Waterfall Room. On the way, we speculated about what some of the virgin 
 side leads might do, and if we would get a chance to survey them on this 
 trip. The two very low air space leads were still very low, but still blow, 
 and none of the ‘sumps’ (low air sections, really) along the main route were 
 any lower than normal – including the third one which, in the main passage, 
 is the lowest and longest by far.
 
 At the Waterfall Room, we climbed into the upper part of it,   traversed 
 into the upper level passage leading out of it, and paused for a quick taco 
 break and to push a potential breakdown lead. The lead didn’t look very good, 
 but I did find another point to access the stream (with no passable leads) 
 which feeds the waterfall entering the middle part of the room, as well as a 
 possible lead that seemed to be have potential for rejoining the same water 
 farther upstream. But more on that later…
 
 Our first lead for the day was another smaller stream in this upper level 
 section. Both this and the larger ‘waterfall stream’ are flowing to the 
 southwest and into the room, which is in the opposite flow direction when 
 compared with the main stream below it. The streams are also perched on top 
 of a green marly layer ~1.5m thick. The Waterfall Room appears to have 
 developed at a point where water has punched down through this layer, 
 intersected the main stream level, and caused a large zone of collapse which 
 is slowly being dissolved away to create the room. Another interesting aspect 
 of the room is that it is the largest known room/passage in the wild   
 cave and is comparable in size to the large parts of the tour route, but with 
 multiple levels and more complexity.
 
 Moving toward our objective, we traversed a section of complex dry breakdown 
 passage before dropping through breakdown and into a low, dry, stream bed ~ 
 .75m high and 2m wide. Following this upstream, the passage gradually became 
 lower as we passed tiny holes in the floor where trickles of water are 
 pirated away to some lower level during higher flow conditions. We soon 
 reached an active piracy hole and the cave turned from sticky muddy to 
 wonderfully wet and sloppy. Just past this, we arrived at the end of the 
 previous survey and quickly started 

Re: [Texascavers] CWAN Trip Report - January 28, 2012

[Ann Scott]

Ben,
How cool...the Capricorn Party Room!! Forever recorded in cave survey history!
Ann, a Capricorn

Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Benjamin Schwartz b...@txstate.edu wrote:

 January 28, 2012
 
 Cave Without A Name, Kinney County, TX
 
 Crew: Benjamin Hutchins, Benjamin Tobin, Benjamin Schwartz (Ben3)
 
 Report by: Benjamin Schwartz
 
 After a slow start leaving San Marcos on Saturday morning, the three of us 
 piled into my truck and headed out to the cave. On the way we had to stop 
 twice - once for breakfast tacos and another time for batteries (both 
 critical caving supplies), but we made it to the cave before 10:00 am. 
 Checking in with Mike Burrell, he reported that the water at our gauging weir 
 was up a mere 0.08 feet after all the heavy rain in the region earlier in the 
 previous week. The area around CWAN only got about 1.5 inches, and the stream 
 level hardly budged,   while other areas nearby got several times that 
 amount and experienced more serious flooding.
 
 The plan for the day was to go to the Waterfall Room at the current upstream 
 end of the cave and continue pushing a virgin upper level stream crawl that 
 Brett Gerard, Ben Hutchins and I had turned around in on the previous trip to 
 this part of the cave. During the previous two years, a group of us have 
 systematically resurveyed the known cave in order to create a high quality 
 map and (we hoped) find additional cave passage. Sometime last fall, the last 
 previously enjoyed passage was surveyed and we were able to start pushing and 
 surveying some of the many virgin leads that remained. Admittedly, a number 
 of them are not very attractive when compared with the main stream passage, 
 but there is good airflow moving through parts of the cave and I am convinced 
 that there is potential for a significant amount of additional passage to be 
 found.
 
 Our goal for the day was 260 m, which was the amount required to move CWAN up 
 a notch in the TX long cave list. Quickly changing into our wetsuits and 
 gearing up, we managed to leave the parking lot and enter the cave before 
 scaring off too many tourists. We told Mike to expect us by midnight and 
 headed upstream around 10:40. A little while later, we looked at each other 
 and realized that none of us had a watch with us. This was strangely 
 reminiscent of the last trip into the cave! I sloshed and jogged back to the 
 surface, got my watch, and rejoined the others at 11:00 – finally we could 
 really move!
 
 The trip upstream took around two hours as we swam, crawled,   waded, and 
 salamandered through the ~2.5 km of stream passage between the Tour Route and 
 the Waterfall Room. On the way, we speculated about what some of the virgin 
 side leads might do, and if we would get a chance to survey them on this 
 trip. The two very low air space leads were still very low, but still blow, 
 and none of the ‘sumps’ (low air sections, really) along the main route were 
 any lower than normal – including the third one which, in the main passage, 
 is the lowest and longest by far.
 
 At the Waterfall Room, we climbed into the upper part of it,   traversed 
 into the upper level passage leading out of it, and paused for a quick taco 
 break and to push a potential breakdown lead. The lead didn’t look very good, 
 but I did find another point to access the stream (with no passable leads) 
 which feeds the waterfall entering the middle part of the room, as well as a 
 possible lead that seemed to be have potential for rejoining the same water 
 farther upstream. But more on that later…
 
 Our first lead for the day was another smaller stream in this upper level 
 section. Both this and the larger ‘waterfall stream’ are flowing to the 
 southwest and into the room, which is in the opposite flow direction when 
 compared with the main stream below it. The streams are also perched on top 
 of a green marly layer ~1.5m thick. The Waterfall Room appears to have 
 developed at a point where water has punched down through this layer, 
 intersected the main stream level, and caused a large zone of collapse which 
 is slowly being dissolved away to create the room. Another interesting aspect 
 of the room is that it is the largest known room/passage in the wild   
 cave and is comparable in size to the large parts of the tour route, but with 
 multiple levels and more complexity.
 
 Moving toward our objective, we traversed a section of complex dry breakdown 
 passage before dropping through breakdown and into a low, dry, stream bed ~ 
 .75m high and 2m wide. Following this upstream, the passage gradually became 
 lower as we passed tiny holes in the floor where trickles of water are 
 pirated away to some lower level during higher flow conditions. We soon 
 reached an active piracy hole and the cave turned from sticky muddy to 
 wonderfully wet and sloppy. Just past this, we arrived at the end of the 
 previous survey and quickly started 

Re: [Texascavers] CWAN Trip Report - January 28, 2012

[Ann Scott]

Ben,
How cool...the Capricorn Party Room!! Forever recorded in cave survey history!
Ann, a Capricorn

Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Benjamin Schwartz b...@txstate.edu wrote:

 January 28, 2012
 
 Cave Without A Name, Kinney County, TX
 
 Crew: Benjamin Hutchins, Benjamin Tobin, Benjamin Schwartz (Ben3)
 
 Report by: Benjamin Schwartz
 
 After a slow start leaving San Marcos on Saturday morning, the three of us 
 piled into my truck and headed out to the cave. On the way we had to stop 
 twice - once for breakfast tacos and another time for batteries (both 
 critical caving supplies), but we made it to the cave before 10:00 am. 
 Checking in with Mike Burrell, he reported that the water at our gauging weir 
 was up a mere 0.08 feet after all the heavy rain in the region earlier in the 
 previous week. The area around CWAN only got about 1.5 inches, and the stream 
 level hardly budged,   while other areas nearby got several times that 
 amount and experienced more serious flooding.
 
 The plan for the day was to go to the Waterfall Room at the current upstream 
 end of the cave and continue pushing a virgin upper level stream crawl that 
 Brett Gerard, Ben Hutchins and I had turned around in on the previous trip to 
 this part of the cave. During the previous two years, a group of us have 
 systematically resurveyed the known cave in order to create a high quality 
 map and (we hoped) find additional cave passage. Sometime last fall, the last 
 previously enjoyed passage was surveyed and we were able to start pushing and 
 surveying some of the many virgin leads that remained. Admittedly, a number 
 of them are not very attractive when compared with the main stream passage, 
 but there is good airflow moving through parts of the cave and I am convinced 
 that there is potential for a significant amount of additional passage to be 
 found.
 
 Our goal for the day was 260 m, which was the amount required to move CWAN up 
 a notch in the TX long cave list. Quickly changing into our wetsuits and 
 gearing up, we managed to leave the parking lot and enter the cave before 
 scaring off too many tourists. We told Mike to expect us by midnight and 
 headed upstream around 10:40. A little while later, we looked at each other 
 and realized that none of us had a watch with us. This was strangely 
 reminiscent of the last trip into the cave! I sloshed and jogged back to the 
 surface, got my watch, and rejoined the others at 11:00 – finally we could 
 really move!
 
 The trip upstream took around two hours as we swam, crawled,   waded, and 
 salamandered through the ~2.5 km of stream passage between the Tour Route and 
 the Waterfall Room. On the way, we speculated about what some of the virgin 
 side leads might do, and if we would get a chance to survey them on this 
 trip. The two very low air space leads were still very low, but still blow, 
 and none of the ‘sumps’ (low air sections, really) along the main route were 
 any lower than normal – including the third one which, in the main passage, 
 is the lowest and longest by far.
 
 At the Waterfall Room, we climbed into the upper part of it,   traversed 
 into the upper level passage leading out of it, and paused for a quick taco 
 break and to push a potential breakdown lead. The lead didn’t look very good, 
 but I did find another point to access the stream (with no passable leads) 
 which feeds the waterfall entering the middle part of the room, as well as a 
 possible lead that seemed to be have potential for rejoining the same water 
 farther upstream. But more on that later…
 
 Our first lead for the day was another smaller stream in this upper level 
 section. Both this and the larger ‘waterfall stream’ are flowing to the 
 southwest and into the room, which is in the opposite flow direction when 
 compared with the main stream below it. The streams are also perched on top 
 of a green marly layer ~1.5m thick. The Waterfall Room appears to have 
 developed at a point where water has punched down through this layer, 
 intersected the main stream level, and caused a large zone of collapse which 
 is slowly being dissolved away to create the room. Another interesting aspect 
 of the room is that it is the largest known room/passage in the wild   
 cave and is comparable in size to the large parts of the tour route, but with 
 multiple levels and more complexity.
 
 Moving toward our objective, we traversed a section of complex dry breakdown 
 passage before dropping through breakdown and into a low, dry, stream bed ~ 
 .75m high and 2m wide. Following this upstream, the passage gradually became 
 lower as we passed tiny holes in the floor where trickles of water are 
 pirated away to some lower level during higher flow conditions. We soon 
 reached an active piracy hole and the cave turned from sticky muddy to 
 wonderfully wet and sloppy. Just past this, we arrived at the end of the 
 previous survey and quickly started 

Re: [Texascavers] 2011 TSA Financial Information

[Scott Boyd]

Don't forget about those corporate caver-jets I saw the last time I went
thru Austin - they burn a lot of fuel you know!

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:05 AM, Michael Cicherski coastalca...@me.comwrote:

   snip-snip


 I've recommended that we immediately cut the pay of all Officers in half,
 and the Presidential Limo will need to be parked until we recoup the losses
 from 2011.

Re: [Texascavers] 2011 TSA Financial Information

[Scott Boyd]

Don't forget about those corporate caver-jets I saw the last time I went
thru Austin - they burn a lot of fuel you know!

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:05 AM, Michael Cicherski coastalca...@me.comwrote:

   snip-snip


 I've recommended that we immediately cut the pay of all Officers in half,
 and the Presidential Limo will need to be parked until we recoup the losses
 from 2011.

Re: [Texascavers] 2011 TSA Financial Information

[Scott Boyd]

Don't forget about those corporate caver-jets I saw the last time I went
thru Austin - they burn a lot of fuel you know!

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:05 AM, Michael Cicherski coastalca...@me.comwrote:

   snip-snip


 I've recommended that we immediately cut the pay of all Officers in half,
 and the Presidential Limo will need to be parked until we recoup the losses
 from 2011.

Re: [Texascavers] Tales from the ASS

[Scott Boyd]

U have y'all ever heard of cell phones??


On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Zach Broussard texasassca...@gmail.comwrote:

 Howdy fellow cavers,

 snip-snip


  I blame the lack of CB use, and motion for ass funds to be allocated
 towards the purchase of a communal cb- or for bawlz to fix his.

Re: [Texascavers] Tales from the ASS

[scott grimes]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fie

it is definitely true that punctuation, capitalization, etc are essentially
useless when emailing or using social media for younger folks. it just slows
things down- had i known that my report was going to be reposted here i may
have cleaned it up a bit and posted more about the caving :p

cheers!
scotty grimes

Re: [Texascavers] Tales from the ASS

[Scott Boyd]

U have y'all ever heard of cell phones??


On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Zach Broussard texasassca...@gmail.comwrote:

 Howdy fellow cavers,

 snip-snip


  I blame the lack of CB use, and motion for ass funds to be allocated
 towards the purchase of a communal cb- or for bawlz to fix his.

Re: [Texascavers] Tales from the ASS

[scott grimes]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fie

it is definitely true that punctuation, capitalization, etc are essentially
useless when emailing or using social media for younger folks. it just slows
things down- had i known that my report was going to be reposted here i may
have cleaned it up a bit and posted more about the caving :p

cheers!
scotty grimes

Re: [Texascavers] Tales from the ASS

[Scott Boyd]

U have y'all ever heard of cell phones??


On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Zach Broussard texasassca...@gmail.comwrote:

 Howdy fellow cavers,

 snip-snip


  I blame the lack of CB use, and motion for ass funds to be allocated
 towards the purchase of a communal cb- or for bawlz to fix his.

Re: [Texascavers] Tales from the ASS

[scott grimes]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fie

it is definitely true that punctuation, capitalization, etc are essentially
useless when emailing or using social media for younger folks. it just slows
things down- had i known that my report was going to be reposted here i may
have cleaned it up a bit and posted more about the caving :p

cheers!
scotty grimes

[Texascavers] Intro to Caving Slideshow?

[Travis Scott]

Howdy Fellow Speleonauts,

I was wondering if there was anyone out there who has either power point 
slideshows or digital graphics that could be used in a slideshow for 
beginning cavers.  And if so, would you be willing to share with me?


I am looking for introduction /caving basics info and graphics that 
might include: karst geology/hydrology, cave types, cave formation info, 
biology, cave survey, collection, research/study, fun/exploration, 
etc..  I will likely customize it a LOT, but am looking for the basics 
as I am sure SOMEONE has done similar slideshows in recent times.


Thank you for helping your fellow cavers in advance

--
Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


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[Texascavers] Intro to Caving Slideshow?

[Travis Scott]

Howdy Fellow Speleonauts,

I was wondering if there was anyone out there who has either power point 
slideshows or digital graphics that could be used in a slideshow for 
beginning cavers.  And if so, would you be willing to share with me?


I am looking for introduction /caving basics info and graphics that 
might include: karst geology/hydrology, cave types, cave formation info, 
biology, cave survey, collection, research/study, fun/exploration, 
etc..  I will likely customize it a LOT, but am looking for the basics 
as I am sure SOMEONE has done similar slideshows in recent times.


Thank you for helping your fellow cavers in advance

--
Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


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[Texascavers] Re:2

[Scott Boyd]

Everything you need and in time! Wow!.. 
http://kutuptasarim.com/friends.links.php?ogoogleId=97j5

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[Texascavers] Re:2

[Scott Boyd]

Everything you need and in time! Wow!.. 
http://kutuptasarim.com/friends.links.php?ogoogleId=97j5

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Re: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention

[Scott Nicholson]

The Weminuche Rocks!!  You might wanna check with the rangers...the last time I 
was there alot of the trails were completely blocked by dead-fall following 
heavier than normal snow.  Freaking beautuful place!

Enjoy(!) and post photos.
 Scott Nicholson, Broker
Discovery Realty Group
512-947-2688
www.DiscoveryAustin.com






From: mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com
To: Dale Barnard d...@dalebarnard.com; * Texas Cavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 7:41:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention


Sounds very cool, Dale, and, dammit, I wish I could go!
 
I even still have the necessary gear.
 
My lovely daughter and I will be doing our best John Wayne and Annie Oakley 
imitations a bit south of there later this month on a weeklong horseback trip 

in the boonies (read “mountains”) at Philmont Scout Ranch, near Cimarron, NM.
 
(It does beat hiking, though. Been there, done that).
 
Hope you have a great trip and be safe! Watch for bears!
 
 
Mark
 
 
 
From:Dale Barnard [mailto:d...@dalebarnard.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:34 AM
To: * Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention
 
If anyone has or can come up with enough backpacking gear to join us for a 
5-day 
backpacking trip the week before the NSS convention, let me know. If you 
haven't 
done extended hiking in the Rockies, then you'll probably need to spend some 
money on lightweight synthetic gear that can handle multiple days of cold rain 
if that happens to the be the case. I would recommend that your pack weigh no 
more than 35 pounds when loaded up, including 4.5 days of food and 2 liters of 
water.
 
The destination is on the way to the NSS convention in my home town of Pagosa 
Springs, Colorado.
 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=Pagosa+Springs,+COaq=0sll=30.179142,-97.793808sspn=0.015081,0.01929ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Pagosa+Springs,+Archuleta,+Coloradoll=34.994004,-104.688721spn=7.314168,9.876709z=7

 
For some information on an area that I consider one of the most beautiful 
places 
on Earth, here's 
the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weminuche_Wilderness
 
The specific trail in the Weminuche will be determined by the group and its 
collective abilities and interests. There are plenty of amazing choices!
 
We'll enter the mountains July 11th and exit the 15th. You'll make it to the 
NSS 
convention on Saturday, which is when most people will arrive there. There are 
currently just me and two other cavers planning on going. If you have the time 
off of work and the gear, consider joining us! 

 
For details, get in touch with me.
 
Thanks!
 
Dale Barnard

Re: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention

[Scott Nicholson]

The Weminuche Rocks!!  You might wanna check with the rangers...the last time I 
was there alot of the trails were completely blocked by dead-fall following 
heavier than normal snow.  Freaking beautuful place!

Enjoy(!) and post photos.
 Scott Nicholson, Broker
Discovery Realty Group
512-947-2688
www.DiscoveryAustin.com






From: mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com
To: Dale Barnard d...@dalebarnard.com; * Texas Cavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 7:41:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention


Sounds very cool, Dale, and, dammit, I wish I could go!
 
I even still have the necessary gear.
 
My lovely daughter and I will be doing our best John Wayne and Annie Oakley 
imitations a bit south of there later this month on a weeklong horseback trip 

in the boonies (read “mountains”) at Philmont Scout Ranch, near Cimarron, NM.
 
(It does beat hiking, though. Been there, done that).
 
Hope you have a great trip and be safe! Watch for bears!
 
 
Mark
 
 
 
From:Dale Barnard [mailto:d...@dalebarnard.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:34 AM
To: * Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention
 
If anyone has or can come up with enough backpacking gear to join us for a 
5-day 
backpacking trip the week before the NSS convention, let me know. If you 
haven't 
done extended hiking in the Rockies, then you'll probably need to spend some 
money on lightweight synthetic gear that can handle multiple days of cold rain 
if that happens to the be the case. I would recommend that your pack weigh no 
more than 35 pounds when loaded up, including 4.5 days of food and 2 liters of 
water.
 
The destination is on the way to the NSS convention in my home town of Pagosa 
Springs, Colorado.
 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=Pagosa+Springs,+COaq=0sll=30.179142,-97.793808sspn=0.015081,0.01929ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Pagosa+Springs,+Archuleta,+Coloradoll=34.994004,-104.688721spn=7.314168,9.876709z=7

 
For some information on an area that I consider one of the most beautiful 
places 
on Earth, here's 
the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weminuche_Wilderness
 
The specific trail in the Weminuche will be determined by the group and its 
collective abilities and interests. There are plenty of amazing choices!
 
We'll enter the mountains July 11th and exit the 15th. You'll make it to the 
NSS 
convention on Saturday, which is when most people will arrive there. There are 
currently just me and two other cavers planning on going. If you have the time 
off of work and the gear, consider joining us! 

 
For details, get in touch with me.
 
Thanks!
 
Dale Barnard

Re: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention

[Scott Nicholson]

The Weminuche Rocks!!  You might wanna check with the rangers...the last time I 
was there alot of the trails were completely blocked by dead-fall following 
heavier than normal snow.  Freaking beautuful place!

Enjoy(!) and post photos.
 Scott Nicholson, Broker
Discovery Realty Group
512-947-2688
www.DiscoveryAustin.com






From: mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com
To: Dale Barnard d...@dalebarnard.com; * Texas Cavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 7:41:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention


Sounds very cool, Dale, and, dammit, I wish I could go!
 
I even still have the necessary gear.
 
My lovely daughter and I will be doing our best John Wayne and Annie Oakley 
imitations a bit south of there later this month on a weeklong horseback trip 

in the boonies (read “mountains”) at Philmont Scout Ranch, near Cimarron, NM.
 
(It does beat hiking, though. Been there, done that).
 
Hope you have a great trip and be safe! Watch for bears!
 
 
Mark
 
 
 
From:Dale Barnard [mailto:d...@dalebarnard.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:34 AM
To: * Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Backpacking in the Rockies before the NSS Convention
 
If anyone has or can come up with enough backpacking gear to join us for a 
5-day 
backpacking trip the week before the NSS convention, let me know. If you 
haven't 
done extended hiking in the Rockies, then you'll probably need to spend some 
money on lightweight synthetic gear that can handle multiple days of cold rain 
if that happens to the be the case. I would recommend that your pack weigh no 
more than 35 pounds when loaded up, including 4.5 days of food and 2 liters of 
water.
 
The destination is on the way to the NSS convention in my home town of Pagosa 
Springs, Colorado.
 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=Pagosa+Springs,+COaq=0sll=30.179142,-97.793808sspn=0.015081,0.01929ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Pagosa+Springs,+Archuleta,+Coloradoll=34.994004,-104.688721spn=7.314168,9.876709z=7

 
For some information on an area that I consider one of the most beautiful 
places 
on Earth, here's 
the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weminuche_Wilderness
 
The specific trail in the Weminuche will be determined by the group and its 
collective abilities and interests. There are plenty of amazing choices!
 
We'll enter the mountains July 11th and exit the 15th. You'll make it to the 
NSS 
convention on Saturday, which is when most people will arrive there. There are 
currently just me and two other cavers planning on going. If you have the time 
off of work and the gear, consider joining us! 

 
For details, get in touch with me.
 
Thanks!
 
Dale Barnard

Re: [Texascavers] Saw Sanctum

[Amanda Scott]

Hi Bill and Cavetex,

With much excitement Travis and I headed to the theater on Saturday night to
see Sanctum.  But I left feeling the same way you did, and have already told
other friends and family to avoid seeing this movie.

I was hoping for a really great flick, but couldn't stomach the mercy
killings and other gruesome scenes.

Maybe one day there will be a main stream caving movie worth watching, but
this wasn't it.

Just my two cents,
Amanda

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 6:04 AM, speleoste...@aol.com wrote:

  Producer James Cameron should be embarrassed to have his name attached to
 this movie. I'm embarrassed that I recommended people see it before I had
 seen it. Once I finally got out of
 theatre it didn't take me long to call my brother and tell him that I'd
 changed my mind and to please
 not take our elderly mother or his kids to see it

 Can I say anything good about it? There are some nice looking visuals. They
 recreated real caves
 nicely. But my overriding feeling is one of offended sensibilities. Mercy
 killing of fellow cavers?
 Who does that, even in war or anywhere? Now cavers are seen to be doing
 that because they're
 in a remote spot? I believe that such acts are called second degree murder.
 And I don't know about
 you, but profanity is rarely heard underground where I go, but then again,
 I haven't gone caving with Australians in many years. Maybe they're like
 that these days.

 I will be asked by both cavers and non-cavers if I recommend this film
 and I will say no to both. They
 show highly dangerous stunts such as standing backwards at the edge of a
 deep pit with rack engaged
 and just jumping backwards into it. And what about the guy struggling to
 free climb up a waterfall right next to a traverse line into which he does
 not clip his cowstail? Was their technical cave advisor not listened to, or
 did they not even have one?

 I give it one star out of a possible five. I'd rather have make-believe
 monsters than for my fellow cavers
 to be shown as monsters.

 Bill Steele




-- 
Amanda Scott
979-229-9430

Re: [ot_caving] FW: Vote NO on FOX to banning the flag in America

[Scott Nicholson]

If I remember correctly the flag was being worn, inapropriately, on 
clothing.  The US Flag Code prohibits that use.  The school sent a kid home for 
wearing offensive clothingmight have been some mention of hispanic students 
being offended.  Probably an instance of obnoxious behavior on several fronts 
like normal.
 Scott Nicholson, Broker
Discovery Realty Group
512-947-2688
www.DiscoveryAustin.com






From: Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com
To: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com; Off-Topic Texas Cavers 
o...@texascavers.com
Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 1:27:34 PM
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] FW: Vote NO on FOX to banning the flag in America

Fritz,
 
Why are you just now getting excited about this? This poll came out almost a 
year ago--May of 2010. Where is the opinion piece that lead up to this poll? 
I'd like to see what it had to say and to whom the ban was addressed. My 
understanding is that this had to do with on-air personnel maintaining some 
appearance of neutrality, not the general public's patriotism. Sounds like 
another right-wing scare tactic to me. 
 
See Snopes on the issue: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/noflags.asp
 
Louise
 

From: fh...@townandcountryins.com
To: o...@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:14:49 -0600
Subject: [ot_caving] FW: Vote NO on FOX to banning the flag in America


To my way of thinking, this is not political but a support of the freedoms that 
all in our great country enjoy.
 
Fritz
 






:

Subject: Fw: (PO)  Vote NO on FOX to banning the flag in America
 

 
  Vote NO on FOX to banning the flag in America
 

Fox is running a poll about whether the flag should be banned in schools in 
order not to inflame Hispanic students. 

Moveon.org, funded by George Soros, Organizing for America , and SEIU, 
Service 
Employee International UNION, have been twittering today to go to Fox Poll 
and 
vote to BAN the Flag and right now it is working (21%). 

It's time to SHOW THEM WHAT TRUE PATRIOTS BELIEVE!!!

GO HERE NOW:


 
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/06/american-flag-banned-america/

VOTE.and then pass it along!

 

RE: [Texascavers] Will new film Sanctum be the Vertical Limit of Caving?

[Scott Boyd]

We also know it's for entertainment (to make money), not a documentary 
accurately portraying caving techniques. (Did you expect it to be accurate 
and/or realistic Tim?)

Caves are in 3D, so the 3D movie must be realistic, right? 

Scott

--- On Sat, 1/22/11, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Will new film Sanctum be the Vertical Limit of 
Caving?
To: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Saturday, January 22, 2011, 8:20 PM




Whadda you expect? It's from James Cameron, most recently of Avitar fame. Let's 
face it guys, it's not a film for cavers, it's a film for thrill seekers who 
want to confirm in their own minds that you have to be crazy to be a caver. 
AND, IT'S IN 3D!!!
Well, you don't have to be crazy, but it helps.
Louise 

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:40:36 -0800
From: markageetxca...@yahoo.com
To: gonza...@msu.edu; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Will new film Sanctum be the Vertical Limit of 
Caving?


 

#yiv2137401650 .yiv2137401650ExternalClass DIV
{}

Fo Fo, I feel the same way. I like a good movie. 





From: Fofo gonza...@msu.edu
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Sat, January 22, 2011 7:34:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Will new film Sanctum be the Vertical Limit of 
Caving?

Oh, who are we kidding? We will _all_ see it, like The Descent and The Cave, 
and then when it's out on DVD someone will have friends over (hey, a drinking 
game when every time there's something completely out of normal caving happens 
on screen can get pretty interesting) or it'll be shown at a grotto social.

I'm looking forward to it!

     - Fofo






On Jan 22, 2011 17:24, Tim Stich timstic...@gmail.com wrote: 

Here's the trailer. I have a bad feeling about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaZHjv3ASfw

It seems to have all of the earmarks of an exploitation style hack job. Stupid, 
needless bickering within the expedition group. Backwards, Aussie-style 
rappelling. All that seems to be missing is the nitro.

So who's going to go see it? I'll wait for your reviews.

-Tim

  



  

[Texascavers] TSS Work Session this week

[Ann Scott]

Cavers:
There is a scheduled second Wednesday work session of the Texas  
Speleological Survey on January 12th, tomorrow, at the JJ Pickle  
Research Center on Burnet Road north of highway 183. Both publication  
sales and the library will be open.  We will be working on many  
projects such as our office computer system, scanning more maps,  
filing publications in the library, and doing other administrative  
chores as needed.  If you have a particular cave you would like to  
know more about, this is a good time to look it up.


The door will be open at 5:00 p.m. and stay open till we adjourn. The  
TSS office phone has been removed so if you get lost or stopped by the  
guard, call me or someone you think might be there (this week, Ron  
Ralph at cell 797-3817 or Ann Scott at cell 731-5823). Remember it is  
best to arrive before 6:00 pm, or the gate guards might not let you in!


The TSS facility is on the third floor of building 18-A at PRC, which  
is located in northwest Austin between Research and Braker, and Mopac  
and Burnet.  The entrance is on Burnet Road, just north of the light  
at Rutland.  Building 18-A is labeled“TM2” on UT’s PRC map located at http://www.utexas.edu/maps/prc/areas/sw.html 
, in case you need more detail, or get the directions from the TSS  
website (below).


If you have questions or problems, please contact Ron at  
ronralph(at)austin.rr.com or the office manager, Jim Kennedy. Please  
go tohttp://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/tsscalendar.htm for  
additional information.

We hope to see you there tomorrow!
Ann
TSS Director

Ann Scott, PhD, RPA
Research Fellow, Texas/Mesoamerican Archaeological Research Laboratory
The University of Texas at Austin
mayaca...@mail.utexas.edu










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[Texascavers] Photo gallery of LARGE Vietnam cave

[Scott Boyd]

If you like cave photos, here's a photo gallery of a large cave in Vietnam:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/01/largest-cave/peter-photography

Scott



  

Re: Cascade Caverns sump dive report

[Scott Kyle]

Charles: That is awesome. Thanks for keeping me up to speed on the adventures! 
And I'm glad it all worked out like it did with the prep the prior weekend. I 
would love to get any photos from the dive or of the crew.
Best, Scott

On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

 A big thanks to all of the help for the tank haul to the sump in Cascade 
 Caverns on Saturday.  James Brown dove the sump, starting at 10:36am and 
 resurfanced approximately 40 minutes later.  James extended the cave by 366 
 feet until he ran out of guideline.  Per his report, Start of Sump dive is 
 the smallest at 6 feet wide and 2 feet high.  Underwater passage after air 
 bell averages 12 feet wide and 6 feet high.   Maximum depth is 31 feet.
 
 We'll be going back at the end of January or beginning of February to push 
 this further.
 
 Thanks go out to the following people:
 Tom Sims
 Gerry Geletzke
 David Serafine
 Layne Hedrick
 Ian Riddington
 Brandon Cook
 Andy Zenker
 Lyndon Tiu
 Peter Druschke
 
 Gerry and Andy also explored Raccoon Ramada cave that is on the property, but 
 did not get a survey yet.  We'll be returning to do that as well.  The 
 entrance to this is a very tight squeeze and I don't know anyone else that 
 has squeezed into it.  I'd be curious if there are any records of this.
 
 Charles
 

[Texascavers] Deadly Descent

[Scott Boyd]

Just watched Deadly Descent that came on last Friday night. Does anyone know if 
it's a continuing series or was it just that one episode?

Scott




  

Re: [Texascavers] Shoe-based radar system for underground GPS

[Scott Boyd]

Doesn't sound like it would work too great if you were crawling through your 
typical Texas cave. Something like Carlsbad - OK...

Scott
 
--- On Fri, 12/3/10, Lee H. Skinner skin...@thuntek.net wrote:

From: Lee H. Skinner skin...@thuntek.net
Subject: [Texascavers] Shoe-based radar system for underground GPS
To: Cave Diggers cavedigg...@yahoogroups.com, texascavers list 
texascavers@texascavers.com, nmcaver list nmca...@caver.net, Internal 
Communications of the Sandia Grotto sandiagro...@caver.net
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 10:22 AM

Now here's some food for thought:

http://is.gd/i9bHd

Lee Skinner





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Re: [Texascavers] Parks Ranch Cave Map Wanted

[Travis Scott]

 I wouldn't mind, if you don't mind.  Thanks!

Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


On 10/19/2010 1:32 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
Sent off list due to the attachment, if anyone else is interested, let 
me know offlist please.


Charles

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:19 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com 
mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:


If someone has a map of Parks Ranch Cave (near CaCa, NM), could
you please send it my way or point me to it.

If one does indeed exist.

Thanks!

Mark

Re: [Texascavers] Parks Ranch Cave Map Wanted

[Travis Scott]

 Thanks!

Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


On 10/19/2010 1:35 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

Here ya go

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 
mailto:tra...@oztotl.com wrote:


I wouldn't mind, if you don't mind.  Thanks!

Travis Scott
tra...@oztotl.com  mailto:tra...@oztotl.com
979.450.0103 (cell)


On 10/19/2010 1:32 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

Sent off list due to the attachment, if anyone else is
interested, let me know offlist please.

Charles

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:19 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com
mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:

If someone has a map of Parks Ranch Cave (near CaCa, NM),
could you please send it my way or point me to it.

If one does indeed exist.

Thanks!

Mark

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion Dust Bowl 2010

[Amanda Scott]

Allan and everyone that helped make TCR possible, Thank You!  We had a
blast!

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Allan Cobb a...@oztotl.com wrote:

 Howdy y'all,

 TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks
 to all those who came out.

 Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

 I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of
 TCR.

 I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned
 registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a
 rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked
 behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to
 everyone helped.

 This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come
 to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.

 See y'all next year,
 Allan

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979-229-9430
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Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy

[Travis Scott]

Where is the like button?

Sent with my thumbs.

On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:10 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote:

 On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Butch Fralia bfra...@maverickgrotto.org 
 wrote:
 Is this an official policy or?
 
 The deal is that just because someone tacitly agrees to have their
 picture taken in (or out of) costume during TCR does not and should
 not be construed as any sort of permission to 3rd parties to post
 photos of them to open source internet sites. Keep them in your
 private collections, if you like, share them at private parties (i.e.:
 after Grotto meeting parties, etc) amongst friends, but don't put them
 out for public consumption--by any means. TCR is a private party of
 cavers and what happens there should pretty much be kept there.
 
 To the best of my memory there has never been an official policy on
 anything at TCR. There are guidelines that comply with the free spirit
 of TCR and people are expected to use good judgement and common sense
 in the interpreting of those guidelines. That means that people are
 given the freedom and responsibility to police their own actions to a
 modicum of social (within the caving community) acceptability. If you
 wouldn't want your revealing photos posted on the internet (even if
 there actually are none) assume that no one else wants their's posted
 either. Then, don't post anybody else's would be the guideline on
 this one.
 
 Diana's suggestion is the 'safety fuse' on this matter. To be
 absolutely safe, don't appear in public in a way you wouldn't want to
 be seen. While that is the logical ultimate solution, it does not
 allow for the concept that TCR is provided as a safe place to turn
 kids, dogs, and yourself loose for the weekend and enjoy some freedoms
 that must be kept penned up during one's daily visits to the real
 world. By respecting other peoples' personal privacy, though shared
 with you at TCR, to not have photos of them posted on the internet,
 can we be sure that TCR will remain a safe place to turn dogs and kids
 and yourself loose for the weekend.
 
 Please understand that this is my personal observation and opinion on
 the  matter.
 --Ediger
 
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Re: [NMCAVER] Lava River Cave graffiti removal

[Scott Nicolay]

Dear Ray,

Since I added my own wiseass comment to Lee's original posting, I will
comment here that I meant no disparagement to those cavers who worked on
this important resto effort (or to any cavers on any resto project), or to
the project itself. Rich Bohman is a good friend and a great caver, and I am
sure that this resto effort was impeccable in every way. My comment was only
directed at the reporter's lack of understanding that caves/lava tubes are
located underground, and that was precisely the point to which I thought Lee
was trying to draw our attention. I never thought Lee was knocking down the
actual resto project, and I had no intention of doing so either.

I do appreciate you sharing more info about the project; it sounds like a
thorough and well-executed effort. More of that info should have been in the
original article.

If I offended you or any other cavers by my comment, I ask your forgiveness.

Let he who is without sarcasm cast the first broken speleothem...

Best,

Scott

-Original Message-
From: nmcaver-boun...@caver.net [mailto:nmcaver-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf
Of Lee H. Skinner
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:59 PM
To: Ray Keeler
Cc: texascavers list; nmcaver list; Internal Communications of the Sandia
Grotto
Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Lava River Cave graffiti removal

  Ray,

The cave is popular with tourists and was the site of an underground 
lava tube.

I greatly applaud your work.   It was quite an effort and very 
commendable. But I still think the wording of the last sentence of the 
article was funny.  Sorry you're offended but since I still feel the 
wording is humorous, I can't retract or apologize for what I said or the 
way I said it.

Regards,
Lee


Ray Keeler said:

I must admit that I am a bit offended by Lee's comment below.

There has been substantial graffiti placed in Lava River Cave over this 
last summer.  20 of us participated in the graffiti removal effort using 
the PCCP sandblasting equipment.  Friday we laid 3900 feet of high 
pressure hose and tested it.  Saturday we started from the back, where 
the tagging was the worst, and worked towards the entrance.  Sunday we 
started before 9AM and cut off sandblasting at noon and extracted 
equipment.  Rich Bohman coordinated underground activities and did a 
great job.

The Coconino NF invested substantial resources, including law 
enforcement, administrative, signage, and two on-site rangers to help.

We were able to clean all of the tags in the cave with the exception of 
two closest to the entrance, when we ran out of time.

thanks,

Ray



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Re: [NMCAVER] Lava River Cave graffiti removal

[Scott Nicolay]

ROTFLMFAO, Lee!

I'll bet if they had a surface lava tube out there, that reporter would
walk right by it...

Scott


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