Re: [Texascavers] Best padlocks for cave gates
Thanks Jim! From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jim Kennedy via Texascavers Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 3:18 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Best padlocks for cave gates Travis, Having been involved with dozens (maybe hundreds) of cave gates around the country, I recommend brass Best locks. And stay away from any rubberized locks, they aren't any better and usually cost more. Lubricate with powdered graphite only, no oil or WD40 or such. And change out the locks periodically, especially in wet, muddy, or dusty situations. Despite what what Mixon espouses, cave resources are definitely worth protecting, and arguably more valuable than my house and possessions. Those can be replaced. That's why the old NSS "Cave Gating" book and it's "weak link" philosophy of gating are obsolete. For a more up-to-date approach, check out the cave gate chapter in NSS' "Cave Conservation and Restoration" book. All this, of course, assumes a well-designed and constructed gate. A poor gate can have entirely the opposite effect, and cause more problems than it solves. All it takes is one jerk to ruin things forever. The Butterfly at Caverns of Sonora is a prime example. Jim Mobile email from my iPhone On Apr 4, 2016, at 8:58 AM, Travis Scott via Texascavers wrote: Folks, I have recently been struggling with the padlocks on cave gates that have become corroded and basically unusable. Even brand new padlocks that were placed on the gate and left for a few years are becoming unusable. These gates are designed with an arm hole which allows you to reach the padlock hanging on the inside of a solid gate. Once the padlock is removed, a lever is moved and the gate opens. The problem is that the padlocks sit in the wet warm environment (sometimes years at a time) collecting dust, dirt and corrosion as air moves past due to the cave breathing. Several locks have recently taken over an hour to open whilst in the most uncomfortable positions, meanwhile with the fear that the key might break off in the lock or the lock will never open, etc.. I am wondering if anyone has had the experience or research to whittle down the best types of locks that can handle this environment and still continue to function properly. I have researched corrosion aspects of different tumblers (no real conclusion on which is best). Other cavers have told me that the locks with the rubber housing around the entire lock, including the key hole, are no better than a normal Masterlock for example. We have tried both the most expensive locks and the cheaper ones, but none seem to hold up. Does anyone have any experience with this or have any light they can shed? Thank you so very much!!! Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Best padlocks for cave gates - advice needed
Folks, I have recently been struggling with the padlocks on cave gates that have become corroded and basically unusable. Even brand new padlocks that were placed on the gate and left for a few years are becoming unusable. These gates are designed with an arm hole which allows you to reach the padlock hanging on the inside of a solid gate. Once the padlock is removed, a lever is moved and the gate opens. The problem is that the padlocks sit in the wet warm environment (sometimes years at a time) collecting dust, dirt and corrosion as air moves past due to the cave breathing. Several locks have recently taken over an hour to open whilst in the most uncomfortable positions, meanwhile with the fear that the key might break off in the lock or the lock will never open, etc.. I am wondering if anyone has had the experience or research to whittle down the best types of locks that can handle this environment and still continue to function properly. I have researched corrosion aspects of different tumblers (no real conclusion on which is best). Other cavers have told me that the locks with the rubber housing around the entire lock, including the key hole, are no better than a normal Masterlock for example. We have tried both the most expensive locks and the cheaper ones, but none seem to hold up. Does anyone have any experience with this or have any light they can shed? Thank you so very much!!! Travis Scott <mailto:tra...@oztotl.com> tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Secrecy
Well, with weazel's, narcissistic and condescending rhetoric behind us, I have some perspective on these subjects as I have been very involved with them (in Texas) for years. I am not an advocate of hiding cave data or being secretive about cave locations by any means. However, in Texas, most caves are on private land and in order to visit them, cavers are granted access (a huge privilege actually) to someone's private property. There have been many, many times that access has been permanently lost (or lost for decades) due to mishandling of the caver-owner relationship. I just learned of another lost access yesterday actually. A few examples I have seen repeat themselves since the Texas caving heyday of the 60's. 1. A rancher grants access to a single caver who then manages trips to the cave. Then, someone else just goes to the cave on their own because they feel empowered to do so since they have the location( and have the attitudes we see in the last email). Next thing you know, the owner has lost trust in cavers and cave access is shut down forever. 2. There is not a single cave-owner contact and the owner gets fed up with random people asking to come visit his cave and simply decides he is done.. 3. A mix of the two examples above occurs but the cave's location is out in public so people just trespass like crazy and this pisses off the owner. So he not only shuts out access, but he gates the cave too. 4. Or the cavers are just simply rude, mean, or unappreciative of the privilege the owner has given them of which the owners get very little in return for. History has shown, repeatedly, that if a Texas cave owner doesn't want us to share any info about our actions, it would be best advised to listen. If spreading the location of an easy accessible cave to the world would cause grief to the owner, go against his wishes, there is a good chance access will be lost. It has shown that if we do not respect the owner, we will lose access. If we bombard him with trespassing, we will lose access, etc etc. Unfortunately, we are stuck in this situation in Texas and therefore have to follow some, dare I say, 'social norms', in order to pursue our caving adventures. That is simply how it is. If this means not sharing some info, that's how it goes. I understand the frustration that some data is proprietary or kept quiet, but for many properties around the state, including many of the absolute BEST caves the state has to offer, cavers are forced to keep a level of discreetness if any access is to be maintained. That's just how it is. Reckless idealism like was just expressed below does no good for our situation in Texas.. The best way to get 'younger flesh involved' is to keep passing on the torch to the younger generation and take them on these proprietary trips. Guess what, this is actually happening underground in Texas all the time. Regarding the TSS. The TSS is not a proprietary organization that will hoard your data and never let it go just so the officers can go play in your caves. It is quite the opposite. We don't spread all cave data around the world haphazardly, rather it is a give and take relationship. We collect info so that the caver community can utilize it in our exploration efforts. If anyone has any questions about specific caves or properties around the state, just ask! If the cave info happens to be one of the few proprietary situations due to the owners wishes (or whatever the reason), then the TSS is forced to respect that. And honestly, that is a good thing! This type of sentiment is actually making it harder to cave in Texas. Greg just stated that he is holding 25 file drawers of cave data from the TSS. (Isn't that a form of secrecy in its own right?) The TSS was created SOLELY to collect this type of info into a database so that it can be utilized and built upon by the caving community. It is a repository for this type of data specifically for the caving community. We will even digitize the data, clean it up, and bring it into a more accessible medium. The data is also then protected against things like fire or flood as well. If we do not share the data with the TSS or anyone else, then that info, that work, that effort, is lost and someone of another generation will just have to do it again if the opportunity ever presents itself. Anyways, I felt obligated to respond to this because access to cave location (and other info) it isn't always that black and white. I have watched access disappear far too many times, and have struggled to keep caver-owner relationships in check for years as well. I also responded because the TSS was created for the reciprocal sharing of cave data to better our caving community and I feel that a lot of people purposefully don't work with them due to misunderstandings like these.. I don't know if that all came out well or not, but I hope it at least helps quell some of the fears of sha
[Texascavers] Kiwi Sink is For Sale
Howdy Cavers, I just wanted to spread the word that Kiwi Sink in the Driftwood area has come up for sale by owner. It is on two acres off of Billie Brooks Lane in Hays County (amongst the small caver community there). The property has a fairly large 4/2 mobile home, garage/barn and some other items. Kiwi Sink is a somewhat significant recharge feature that local cavers have excavated over the years to approximately 102.3m long and 17.5m deep. The owner hopes that cavers can acquire it, but is putting it on the market and it will be open to anyone. He has verbally mentioned an asking price of $167,000 for the property at this time. If you or anyone you know might be interested in purchasing the property and cave, please let me know and I will get you in touch with the owner. Thanks!! Travis Scott <mailto:tra...@oztotl.com> tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] TSS Online Data Submissions
Howdy Texas Cavers, As you hopefully know, the Texas Speleological Survey collects, organizes, and maintains information on Texas caves and karst, as well as provides that data back to cavers who are actively out there caving in the state. We recently overhauled our website which you need to check out. The new site also has a new and wonderful online submission tool for submitting data into our database. Last weekend at TCR I talked with many folks who are actively finding, exploring, and surveying caves. Some of this information has not been submitted to the database. So I urge you to check out the new submission page and dig out your recent surveys and cave data! We had our first submission on the new website this week and would like to thank Ben Hutchins for the submission! He also offered comments and ideas on how we can improve it, so please feel free to do the same! Thanks again Ben! Why should you submit data? A quick story from this past week: A land owner finds hole on his property, the land owner contacts cavers looking for information on the cave. The caver requests data from TSS on caves near land owner (thanks Gregg!). The caver shares this data with the land owner and verifies that the cave has been explored and documented already. Caver provides the owner a map, cave description, and photos from TSS database. This saves the caver a long trip to a small cave, and from having to remap and rephoto a previously mapped and photographed cave, and makes the land owner happy. Now the caver has an open invitation to come caving any time. This was made possible by a wonderful symbiotic relationship between the TSS and caving public, and by submitters like you! So seriously folks, lets continue to share our data and improve caving across the state! Main TSS Website: http://texasspeleologicalsurvey.org/index.php Data Submission Page http://texasspeleologicalsurvey.org/data_submit/submit_data_page_1.php *Travis Scott* TSS, TCMA, TSA, NSS, Porcupine Grotto, Old-ASS ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Movie Filming in Texas Caves, Technical Assistance Needed
Cavers, I have been approached by a friend who is a director for a local Austin film production company. They are working on a new movie that is partially based in a cave. They have permission to film in a cave in north Austin as well as in an on-trail portion of Sonora. They will be filming between the dates of August 26 and Sept 5th with their time split between locations. He was asking for a caver or cavers to assist in filming at both locations. I have already put out feelers to specific cavers for the filming in Sonora so they get first dibs, but the n. Austin work still needs a vertical caver's expertise for a day or so. In Austin they will be simulating entering and exiting a vertical cave mostly using stunt doubles and cables, but they would like a caver there to help make sure they are using the gear correctly (and therefore it looks real) etc etc. There is some possibility of training and actually helping them rappel and maybe providing SOME gear, but those details are a bit fuzzy at the moment. In Sonora, they will be getting on rope and needing quality vertical caving guidance and assistance as well as filming the in-cave portions of their movie. Sonora will take a few days to complete but there will only be one day of vertical work. They would like a very confident vertical caver there the entire time to assist. Please let me know if you are interested/able and I can get you in touch with the producer to work out the details. There might be some small payment for the help, but mostly this is being requested as volunteer help. Since this is rope work with novices, I am asking that only serious cavers with good vertical experience step up if your interested. Between one and three cavers are needed, so if there is a lot of response, only a few will be able to help, just FYI. Please contact me off-line if you are interested and able to assist and we can go from there. Thank you! Happy Caving! *Travis Scott* tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] FYI Bear Sightings in Texas
Hey all, Just some info cavers might oughta be aware of: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20121127c Mountain Lions, Tigers (ringtails maybe?) and Bears, Oh no! Keep your eyes peeled... -- Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] FYI Bear Sightings in Texas
Hey all, Just some info cavers might oughta be aware of: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20121127c Mountain Lions, Tigers (ringtails maybe?) and Bears, Oh no! Keep your eyes peeled... -- Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] FYI Bear Sightings in Texas
Hey all, Just some info cavers might oughta be aware of: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20121127c Mountain Lions, Tigers (ringtails maybe?) and Bears, Oh no! Keep your eyes peeled... -- Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Intro to Caving Slideshow?
Howdy Fellow Speleonauts, I was wondering if there was anyone out there who has either power point slideshows or digital graphics that could be used in a slideshow for beginning cavers. And if so, would you be willing to share with me? I am looking for introduction /caving basics info and graphics that might include: karst geology/hydrology, cave types, cave formation info, biology, cave survey, collection, research/study, fun/exploration, etc.. I will likely customize it a LOT, but am looking for the basics as I am sure SOMEONE has done similar slideshows in recent times. Thank you for helping your fellow cavers in advance -- Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Intro to Caving Slideshow?
Howdy Fellow Speleonauts, I was wondering if there was anyone out there who has either power point slideshows or digital graphics that could be used in a slideshow for beginning cavers. And if so, would you be willing to share with me? I am looking for introduction /caving basics info and graphics that might include: karst geology/hydrology, cave types, cave formation info, biology, cave survey, collection, research/study, fun/exploration, etc.. I will likely customize it a LOT, but am looking for the basics as I am sure SOMEONE has done similar slideshows in recent times. Thank you for helping your fellow cavers in advance -- Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Intro to Caving Slideshow?
Howdy Fellow Speleonauts, I was wondering if there was anyone out there who has either power point slideshows or digital graphics that could be used in a slideshow for beginning cavers. And if so, would you be willing to share with me? I am looking for introduction /caving basics info and graphics that might include: karst geology/hydrology, cave types, cave formation info, biology, cave survey, collection, research/study, fun/exploration, etc.. I will likely customize it a LOT, but am looking for the basics as I am sure SOMEONE has done similar slideshows in recent times. Thank you for helping your fellow cavers in advance -- Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Parks Ranch Cave Map Wanted
Thanks! Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) On 10/19/2010 1:35 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: Here ya go On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Travis Scott <mailto:tra...@oztotl.com>> wrote: I wouldn't mind, if you don't mind. Thanks! Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com <mailto:tra...@oztotl.com> 979.450.0103 (cell) On 10/19/2010 1:32 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: Sent off list due to the attachment, if anyone else is interested, let me know offlist please. Charles On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:19 PM, mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com>> wrote: If someone has a map of Parks Ranch Cave (near CaCa, NM), could you please send it my way or point me to it. If one does indeed exist. Thanks! Mark
Re: [Texascavers] Parks Ranch Cave Map Wanted
I wouldn't mind, if you don't mind. Thanks! Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) On 10/19/2010 1:32 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote: Sent off list due to the attachment, if anyone else is interested, let me know offlist please. Charles On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:19 PM, <mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com>> wrote: If someone has a map of Parks Ranch Cave (near CaCa, NM), could you please send it my way or point me to it. If one does indeed exist. Thanks! Mark
Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy
Where is the like button? Sent with my thumbs. On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:10 PM, Gill Edigar wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Butch Fralia > wrote: >> Is this an official policy or? > > The deal is that just because someone tacitly agrees to have their > picture taken in (or out of) costume during TCR does not and should > not be construed as any sort of permission to 3rd parties to post > photos of them to open source internet sites. Keep them in your > private collections, if you like, share them at private parties (i.e.: > after Grotto meeting parties, etc) amongst friends, but don't put them > out for public consumption--by any means. TCR is a private party of > cavers and what happens there should pretty much be kept there. > > To the best of my memory there has never been an "official policy" on > anything at TCR. There are guidelines that comply with the free spirit > of TCR and people are expected to use good judgement and common sense > in the interpreting of those guidelines. That means that people are > given the freedom and responsibility to police their own actions to a > modicum of social (within the caving community) acceptability. If you > wouldn't want your revealing photos posted on the internet (even if > there actually are none) assume that no one else wants their's posted > either. Then, "don't post anybody else's" would be the guideline on > this one. > > Diana's suggestion is the 'safety fuse' on this matter. To be > absolutely safe, don't appear in public in a way you wouldn't want to > be seen. While that is the logical ultimate solution, it does not > allow for the concept that TCR is provided as a safe place to turn > kids, dogs, and yourself loose for the weekend and enjoy some freedoms > that must be kept penned up during one's daily visits to the real > world. By respecting other peoples' personal privacy, though shared > with you at TCR, to not have photos of them posted on the internet, > can we be sure that TCR will remain a safe place to turn dogs and kids > and yourself loose for the weekend. > > Please understand that this is my personal observation and opinion on > the matter. > --Ediger > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Agrilife pamphlet on Caving
This publication is from ASSes very own graduate student Amanda Bentley! Hopefully it will play a good role in helping cave access and preserving cave owner relations... Travis (looking forward to TCR, no matter where it is!) Sent with my thumbs. On Aug 5, 2010, at 8:44 PM, "William H. Russell" wrote: > >> > >> Thread-Topic: Agrilife pamphlet on Caving > >> From: "Julie Jenkins" >> To: "William H. Russell" > >> Did I ask you to post this on cavetex? If not, could you put this link up? > >> > >> Subject: FW: Agrilife pamphlet on Caving > >> > >> https://agrilifebookstore.org/publications_details.cfm?whichpublication=2837 > >> > > > -- > William Hart Russell > 4806 Red River Street > Austin, TX 78751 > H: 512-453-4774 (messages) > CELL: 512-940-8336
Re: [Texascavers] FW: Gear sale
Another good price (better actually) for locking biners is at CMC Rescue: http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?CatalogID=1&dept_id=1332&rootNode=0&pid=20288 Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.450.0103 (cell) On 7/16/2010 8:00 AM, Geary Schindel wrote: Folks, Mountain Gear has Petzl Ascenders on sale for $55.97 from $69.95. There are also some good deals on locking carabiners but I would recommend you not get the self or auto locking biners You can find them by googling Mountain Gear or maybe the links below will work. Geary http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/Search_Results_Endeca_New.asp?attr=sale+nav&Ntt=sale&Nao=16&afl=103&fc_c=2641697x8246545x299694823&cmpn=21283&roi=echo4%2D10046469774%2D8246545%2D6ccd230b743adce16d3b70664fb11e86&N=0&CMP=EMC%2D21283&store=MG&Nu=p%5Frollup&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ns=p%5Fpopular&Ntk=s%5Fsearch <http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/Search_Results_Endeca_New.asp?attr=sale+nav&Ntt=sale&Nao=16&afl=103&fc_c=2641697x8246545x299694823&cmpn=21283&roi=echo4%2D10046469774%2D8246545%2D6ccd230b743adce16d3b70664fb11e86&N=0&CMP=EMC%2D21283&store=MG&Nu=p%5Frollup&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ns=p%5Fpopular&Ntk=s%5Fsearch> http://www.mountaingear.com/?roi=echo4-10046469774-8246539-ef7cd06ed55f7a5b8b23cf12c08af872&fc_c=2641697x8246539x299694823&afl=103&cmpn=21283&store=MG&CMP=EMC-21283&attr=hp+graphic <http://www.mountaingear.com/?roi=echo4-10046469774-8246539-ef7cd06ed55f7a5b8b23cf12c08af872&fc_c=2641697x8246539x299694823&afl=103&cmpn=21283&store=MG&CMP=EMC-21283&attr=hp+graphic>
Re: [Texascavers] Brehmer Cave
The cave has been owned by Stephany Clifton for many years now. She has been either under pressure or interested in developing those parcels of land for residential development off and on for a long while now. TCMA and a few private cavers have shown interest in obtaining the land, and Ms. Clifton has shown interest in putting it in caver's hands, but the price is too steep and she hasn't been willing to donate or lower the price to protect the cave. We have gone through this cycle several times and it seems that the property hasn't sold (at least based on what I have heard). Access has been touchy due to the people that do live very nearby the cave and the attempts to develop the property. I haven't spoken with her for a while now and have no idea what the situation currently is, but it is most likely still "in attempted transition" or so. If you really want to visit the cave, I can contact her. It was you that got me into the cave in the first place. But I would suggest waiting until the bats are gone :-) Travis On 6/15/2010 11:42 PM, David wrote: I am posting this so that I don't step on anybody's turf. I hope to soon post an update about the status of Brehmer Cave. At the moment, I only know that Melitta Stahl's granddaughter owns the 2 caves.I was told by the former manager of the ranch today ( who I found on Facebook ), that the cave is closed due to all the houses nearby. I think I know which granddaughter inherited the cave, but I sent them both Facebook messages in hopes of a reply. Melitta Stahl passed away in April of 2008, and I think that was mentioned then. But her daughter became the contact person, in the late 80's. ( I haven't found her yet ) For those of you who have not been to these 2 caves.The smaller of the 2, is a crawl in entrance full of harvestman, over lots of debris ( dirt, rocks, sticks, guano, etc. ) Immediately you are in a small room with enough room to take a group photo around some nice formations. Then there is a short crawl to a smaller room that often had ringtail cats. The larger cave has a nice entrance that you can stoop walk through to a good size room with a man-made skylight ( or possibly an enlarged sinkhole entrance ). This was a guano mine, and I was told it had historical importance. The skylight is fenced off and lots of brush going around it. The back of the big room is, or was full of bats. Beyond the big room, is a small passage leading to a small room with some old grafitti. There is a tiny lead in the cave, but you would have to be small and skinny to push it.It is in the entrance going the opposite direction from the rest of the cave. I have never seen a map of Little Brehmer Cave, but the old map of Brehmer Cave looked accurate enough to describe the passage that I went into a few times. I seem to recall an old-timer telling me there was passage that was not on that map. After doing all that and righting the above I found the following link showing a caving trip just 4 years ago. ( I don't remember the cave being that pretty ). http://www.oztotl.com/Pages/2006/Brehmers.html And it is listed as the 124th longest cave. Hopefully, to be continued. David Locklear Ref: http://www.caves.org/section/asha/saltpeter-survey.pdf http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/longdeep/tsslongcaves.htm - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] David's East Texas Caver's Cookout
Just wanted to add a note about the location of the cookout for future reference. Amanda used to go there all the time and I have visited, its actually a perfect place for something like the TSA convention. It has all the necessary buildings, electricity, and is a great place to camp with lots of shady and open areas. If only it had a clear river running through it I would suggest it for TCR. Anyways, I just wanted to point out that it IS a great venue worth considering in the future (that is if most people would consider traveling east for a caving event). I wish I could make it in May, I hope it goes well. TS - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Bustamante
They look like stacked up vehicle frames. If I remember correctly, there is a Toyota frame manufacturing plant down near Saltillo that ships them in large quantities like that to the US. There is also a pic that shows the Cabeza De Leon in the background, and the canyon. It appears that this ranch is a little north of the town along the railroad tracks. Probably on the right as you approach the town headed south. TS Mark Minton wrote: In the second article Orion posted, the last photo in the first group showed some tall structures in the background. They look kind of like high-rise buildings to me. Anyone know what those are? Is Bustamante growing into a big city? Or are they some kind of cargo on the side of the railroad (looks like a tank car to the left behind the truck)? Mark Minton At 12:40 AM 3/18/2010, Orion Knox wrote: Another article with some good photos. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?175988-8-gunmen-from-the-Zetas-cartel-dead-after-raid-by-Mexican-special-forces-marines&p=4823033&viewfull=1 Orion Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] In-cave Survey/sketch computers
Howdy yonder cavers, I have an inquiry that I wish to pull from your collective knowledge. I would like to know what the best system for in-cave sketching using a hand-held device. One that allows you to input the survey points and sketch over top of the line plots (plan and profile) and essentially create a quasi finalized digital map while in the cave. A quick internet search reveals the freeware Auriga coupled with a palm pilot. Has anyone used this system? Have any review or critiques to offer? Is there a better system or software that you would suggest? Or are systems like these simply not very popular because they don't necessarily work as well as the old method of sketching on paper and digitizing it later? If anyone has any experience with this sort of thing or know of someone who uses these systems, please let me know. Thank you! -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Darkroom for Sale
If anyone is interested in a complete darkroom set that includes everything from developing many different types of film all the way to the final print, please let me know and I will get you more info on it. Asking $500 although it is worth much more. I will be away from internet for the next 24 hrs or so, so don't expect a quick response, please respond OFF listserve. Thanks! Kevin, you will recognize this darkroom! -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Paging Bob Oakley
Bob, can you please email me, thanks! -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] CV S.U.C.K.S. Digitally?
Ignore my last idiotic post, thanks... Travis Scott wrote: Cavers, I didn't realize that my quick, lack of pre-thought, email to pass the SUCKer newsletters to a more useful home would stir up so much interest. Allan Cobb has offered to host them for the world to see if someone was willing to scan them (if that is ok with whomever the powers that be are). Either way, with so many people interested in a copy, even digitally, I figured I would see if anyone is willing and able to scan them before passing them onto their new home. If so, please let me know. The don't necessarily need to be posted for the world to see, but at least it would make it easier for all the people that want to read them to get a copy. Let me know, thanks! Travis www.oztotl.com/travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] CV S.U.C.K.S. Digitally?
Cavers, I didn't realize that my quick, lack of pre-thought, email to pass the SUCKer newsletters to a more useful home would stir up so much interest. Allan Cobb has offered to host them for the world to see if someone was willing to scan them (if that is ok with whomever the powers that be are). Either way, with so many people interested in a copy, even digitally, I figured I would see if anyone is willing and able to scan them before passing them onto their new home. If so, please let me know. The don't necessarily need to be posted for the world to see, but at least it would make it easier for all the people that want to read them to get a copy. Let me know, thanks! Travis www.oztotl.com/travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] CV S.U.C.K.S.
Sold!!! to the first caller, sorry everyone else! Travis Scott wrote: I have what is probably a relatively complete set of the Carta Valley Sucks newsletters. Anyone want them? They are an interesting read if nothing else.. I believe the TSS has copies of them all, but if they don't, they get first dibbs. -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] CV S.U.C.K.S.
I have what is probably a relatively complete set of the Carta Valley Sucks newsletters. Anyone want them? They are an interesting read if nothing else.. I believe the TSS has copies of them all, but if they don't, they get first dibbs. -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] KXAN's Jim Swift in Antioch Cave
Read the kid's comment at the bottom of the story, is it really not locked? Jules Jenkins wrote: fyi- it is what it is.. http://www.kxan.com/dpp/weather/scientists-unveil-new-cave-entrance -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Awesome Headlamp?
All, I did have the opportunity to break away from the ICS and go caving on the last day (surprisingly). I caved with some folks from Austria who had a new type of high-end LED headlamp I have not seen yet (yes, it may be old news to ya'll). Anyways, it is called the Scurion and the model they had consisted of two LEDs, one was an ambient ~160 degrees of light and the other was a super-bright spot. I was pretty impressed with the ambient option even though it was a little difficult to see the caver behind the light, it was such a broad light (like a bright candle) that it lit most of every room we were in (even the Grand Finale in Honey Creek). Anyways, they are NOT cheap, but since I had not heard or seen anything on them in the Texas caving world, just wanted to see if anyone had experience with them. To me, they offer excellent cave photo opportunities with such a broad light (although the kelvin temp is different from bulbs and flashes), plus, you don't have to move your head every time you want to see something. And nobody else has come out with a headlamp that casts such a wide beam. Two links about the lamps are below. Anyone own one of these? Just curious and intrigued, its WAY out of my price range. http://www.scurion.ch/body_index.html http://www.scurion.ch/ms/index.php?lamp -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] What it TAKES -- You got it... ICS TEXAS!
Allan Cobb wrote: Like I said, making any kind of list like this always leaves out very deserving people. Allan, et al, I agree and please understand that my little list of thanks was only for those that worked under me. My trips used only a fraction of the folks that worked their butts off for the ICS and I would have by no means done justice listing anything outside of my little corner of such a big event. There are just tooo many... - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] ICS THANKS!!!
Cavers, The ICS was a great success in my mind. I didn't get to step back and be a part of most of the events, but from what I heard it was overall a great success. Many people have said that there were a a hand full of Texas cavers working their tails off and I just wanted to tell them all THANKS!!!. You know who you are, cause you are probably still asleep and trying to catch up!! They really put in a lot of seriously hard work, dealt with a lot of stress, and very little sleep, all behind the scenes, AND FOR FREE, to make this happen. There are too many to list them all individually and I would probably accidentally leave a few names out if tried to list them all, but they really pulled through. I must give public props and serious thanks to a few who worked directly under me to help make the day caving trips happen. If you read through this, you will begin to realize how much was given by so many to make this happen, and this is only for the day caving trips! It doesn't include transportation and registration (I feel for them, they were amazing), banquets, and so many other portions of the ICS... These include Joe Mitchell who helped me along way and all week in most everything, the awesome crew from A.S.S. who came out and stayed all 9 days or as long as they could doing whatever I asked them (seriously, couldn't have done it without you), lead and helped lead caving trips almost every day, AND volunteered for other people as well including Drew and Alex Wendeborn, Amanda Bentley, Megan Files, TJ Tidwell, Chelsea Bergoine, and Zach Broussard, Sam Cuellar. Allan Cobb for all the awesome assistance and very necessary early morning coffee delivery :-). Matt Turner, Christi Burrell, Marvin Miller, Peter Sprouse, Julia Germany, Rob Bisset, Mark Alman, Bill Steele, Kurt Menking, Lyndon Tiu, Mike Harris, Joe Mitchell and Geary Schindel who contacted and worked out access to the caves, coordinated and organized a slew of countless helpers under them, and made trips happen to these caves all week long. Some like Rob caved on every trip to a VERY difficult cave (hope you are recovering ok!) Julia Germany for organizing the super complicated Wed. Kickapoo trip, Jerry Atkinson for all his help on the Wed. Kickapoo trip, Mark Alman (and family) for all the pre-ICS work at Longhorn and trip leading. Zach Schudrowitz, Matt Turner and Stephen Howe for all their last minute help with the vans, Dob Auburn for being great to work with and not killing me for all the lost vans! Lee Ann Dean and Wayne Hutchinson who stayed out at Kickapoo to help lead trips. Countless land owners who allowed us access to their caves for relatively nothing in return, especially the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department!!! The Devil's Sinkhole Society who allowed us random unscheduled trips to see the Devil's Sinkhole on the way back from Kickapoo Caverns. And very importantly, Shiner, Becker vineyards, and Pete Strickland (hot tub) who provided much ease and relief after so many a long hard day. I have a list of over 80 names of people that played roles in the day caving trips, from as much as caving EVERY day of the ICS to helping out by moving stuff from one van to the next for me so that all of the day trips could happen. That is a lot of people and there is no way I can thank them all for the assistance. If I missed your name, it was a long week and I am still in recovery mode, I am sorry and Thank you too! To sum up, THANKS for all the hard work by everyone I worked with!!! Maybe I should have just said that and kept it short huh? Nah, they deserve the props! As a side note, Texans can put on one hell of a party huh? -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS
Everyone, just to make it clear and ease any unnecessary frustration, the volunteers that are using this "special registration" are only allowed to assist in leading trips, or whatever they have volunteered to do. They do not get to go to the parties, talks, and other events that the paying folk will get to enjoy. So don't feel like they are "getting a free ride" into the ICS, they are very limited on what they can do. They were given the registration to cover them under ICS insurance so that they could help us lead the trips. In fact, without these people, there would be half of the caving trips that we have offered. So if you pay the $15 and go caving, chances are that the trip you are on is ONLY possible because of some of these volunteers, so be thankful! They are playing a large role in the ICS that many of the paid people aren't willing or able to do. Travis Don Cooper wrote: Yeah, well maybe we should, but we're not. Perhaps I could have volunteered through the whole thing and not registered, but not with my head held high. Not when so many others HAVE paid essentially to work for free. -WaV On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Lyndon Tiu <l...@alumni.sfu.ca> wrote: They should be registering--and paying. No free ride here, boy howdy. I don't think anyone is getting a free ride, they are helping the ICS but are NOT getting any of the benefits of a paid ICS registration (parties, free beer, banquets, etc.). We should be glad they are giving some of their time to help the ICS for free. FYI: I am registered (I paid my $200 back in Dec 2008) ... but I think volunteers should get a free ride. But that's totally my opinion. On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Lyndon Tiu <l...@alumni.sfu.ca l...@alumni.sfu.ca>> wrote: Plus the many Texas cavers who are volunteering (cave trip leaders/van drivers/Aggies) but are not registering. They count too. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS cave trip question
David and all, After the changes from WNS, everything had to be rethunk. We are finally beginning to finalize the trips (yes only a month out) and I plan to get an official daily schedule, which includes cave and trip descriptions, out in the coming weeks. This includes a few of the caves you mentioned and more. Unfortunately, due to summer bat populations, many good caves will not be visited during the ICS. WNS complications closed even more caves. We have worked hard to offer the best trips possible under these constraints and I believe we have a good schedule of trips to offer which exhibit the broad range of trips Texas has to offer. As soon as I can, we'll get it publicized and get word out. Travis David wrote: I don't think I am going to get to go caving this summer, but I am curious about the cave trips being offered at ICS. Has anyone made a list of all the caves that are closed and also the ones temporarily closed during ICS. I am just curious if there is a formal list ? Or would it be easier to have a formal list of caves that will be open ? So far I have only heard "rumors" that there may be a trip in Honeycreek upstream of the shaft, and of trips to caves at Colorado Bend State Park. And I heard a "rumor" of a trip near Boerne. But what about some of the major caves in Texas ? Are any of the caves that are normally closed being opened for ICS ? Indian Creek Cave, Valdina Farms Sinkhole, etc. What is the closest open cave to Kerrville that is on the top long or deep list? I have not visited any caves around there, except the one at Enchanted Rock, and the lower passage in Cascade Caverns. Speaking of rumors, I heard that a band from Bandera is playing at the Howdy Party. I am certain I will at least show up for the Howdy Party. Cheers, David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Wanna go caving during the ICS?
Please forward this to any and all list-serves you feel necessary! Dear underground adventurers, As many of you have heard, there have been a lot of calls for volunteers during the ICS. Yes, this is another. But this time you will sign up to to see pretty waterfalls, springs and visit multiple caves all in one day! That being said, we are in need of trip leaders to Colorado Bend State Park for 3 days during the ICS, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. These trips will be fun and interesting and relatively easy. Another perk is that the trip will be free for you! I need two trip leaders each day (you and your buddy!) with one being over the age of 25 to drive the vans. Even if you are only interested in helping out for one day, that would be great. Please let me know if you are interested and we'll get the ball rolling. Thank you! -- Travis Scott Day Cave Trip Coordinator for the ICS 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Lost Earring and ICS
I too want to thank the powers that be for another great TCR. I also wanted to let you know that the elusive earring was actually found late Saturday night (THANK YOU, Allan has a prize!!). Thanks to everyone that helped look for it! If you are interested in going caving (who isn't?) and want to help with the ICS, lots of fun things are happening, please let me and/or Joe Mitchell know if you want to be a part of it.. Travis Scott - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Man Bat Shirt
Some cavers might be interested in this shirt, its somewhat related to caving?: http://shirt.woot.com/ TS - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Caving/surveying this weekend?
Cavers, There is a trip this weekend (aug. 30th) to a ranch near Vance. Fountain Cave is very nearby and needs have it's survey completed. Bev Shade and others began a survey of the cave a while back but the survey was not finished and we haven't been back. I need to get a survey team (with a good sketcher) out to finish the cave this weekend. The group going won't have any surveyors, so I am hoping I can get at least one survey team of three to join them for the weekend. The owner is great and there is great river access, its always fun out there. The survey probably won't take all that long to complete, its not that long of a cave. I have the notes and will send them when a team is organized. Unless, of course, if Bev could come and finish it up? If you can sketch or can play a role in surveying next weekend and can make it to Vance, tx, please let me know. Thanks! Travis Fritz, sorry for late notice, hope you can make it!
Re: [Texascavers] Major underground river?
Awesome, thanks Geary! Glad to finally know about that. It's pretty cool that the river is completely spring fed all the while recharging the aquifer.. I guess they are separate springs further south that make the river flow again?... Thanks for the info! From above ground, Travis - Original Message - From: "Geary Schindel" To: "Travis Scott" ; "TexasCavers.com" Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Major underground river? Travis, Yes, the Frio River sinks into it's bed as it crosses the recharge zone of the Edwards Aquifer; however, it doesn't discharge 14 miles to the south but is a major recharge source of the Edwards Aquifer and pirates water more than a 100 miles to the east to discharge at San Antonio, San Pedro, Comal, Hueco, and San Marcos Springs. T Why haven't there been caves with rivers found, I've often wondered that myself. Part of the problem is that most of the major conduits formed directly under the river are either full of water or are full of sediment making it difficult to get in them. There is a relatively short distance between the recharge zone of the aquifer and the artesian zone. Once the conduit hits the artesian zone, it's probably full of water. There are a few good examples of this in the Edwards, probably the best is Indian Creek Cave and possibly Valdina Farm Cave. The area with greatest potential for finding a large river cave in the Balcones Fault Zone segment of the Edwards Aquifer is between Cibolo Creek (Bexar-Comal County line) and San Marcos Springs. There is sufficient flow of groundwater in this area and there is sufficient thickness of limestone above the water table that the longest and largest cave in Texas is probably located here. The problem is finding the way in. It will require a lot of persistence and some luck but the geologic data says it's there. Geary Schindel, Chief Technical Officer Edwards Aquifer Authority San Antonio, Texas -Original Message- From: Travis Scott [mailto:tra...@oztotl.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 11:18 AM To: TexasCavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Major underground river? Caver-types, Something I have always been fascinated with, yet have rarely heard a mention of in the caving community, is the fact that Texas limestone sucks up an entire river (albeit not the biggest river in the world), and spits it out several miles downstream (~14 miles or so according to Google Earth imagery). Maybe this doesn't need to be a communal discussion, but I figured I would throw it out nonetheless. Are there any Frio River Experts that know something about this and might be willing to share with an inquiring mind? (and not the "experts" at drinking beer while floating the river, I know enough about that one although I need to study it more!) Anyways, if nothing else, does it actually go into an underground "cave", or maybe just flow under the gravel for the several miles? I have seen references to a fault that sucks it up too. Maybe there is a chance for some good underground tubing! Travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Major underground river?
Caver-types, Something I have always been fascinated with, yet have rarely heard a mention of in the caving community, is the fact that Texas limestone sucks up an entire river (albeit not the biggest river in the world), and spits it out several miles downstream (~14 miles or so according to Google Earth imagery). Maybe this doesn't need to be a communal discussion, but I figured I would throw it out nonetheless. Are there any Frio River Experts that know something about this and might be willing to share with an inquiring mind? (and not the "experts" at drinking beer while floating the river, I know enough about that one although I need to study it more!) Anyways, if nothing else, does it actually go into an underground "cave", or maybe just flow under the gravel for the several miles? I have seen references to a fault that sucks it up too. Maybe there is a chance for some good underground tubing! Travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Wanna go caving?
Cavers and the cave-like, Allan mentioned the fact that we are looking for volunteers for the ICS. Before, after, and during the convention there will be all sorts of activities going on including caving trips and week long expeditions. During the week of the convention however, the caving trips will be narrowed down to day trips throughout the week with Wednesday being the big day for longer more involved trips. I am currently in charge of the day caving trips for the week of the convention. Since there will likely be several trips to several caves going on at the same time I will need help, help going caving. Its tough, I know. I hope some of you can handle that!! I am looking for volunteers to lead day caving trips during the convention. The trips will range from short drives to somewhat nearby caves to long day trips to caves further away. They will range in size based on what the cave can handle with minimum impact. Transportation methods will be based on vehicle accessibility, trip size, etc. I need some volunteers that can start working with me soon to start visiting some of these caves, become familiar with the caves, and get to know the land owners a bit so that they can lead trips into these caves during the convention. Several well known caves are already on my wish list for day trips which have been visited by many of you and won't require any pre-convention caving trips, while others may not have been visited since the 60's and need to be tracked down. I am starting to venture out and check out some of these old caves/leads to see if they are worth using for the ICS. I need volunteers for both the well known cave trips as well as volunteers that can start caving with me pretty soon as I check out old caves/leads so that they can become familiar with the caves for the conventions. I have already had a few volunteers and I MUCH appreciate the help. I will need more though. Cavers will be coming in from around the globe and I would like to offer as many choices for caving opportunities as possible. I would ideally like to have caving trips going on each day, that makes for a lot of volunteers. Please spread the word around at your meetings, put it in your newsletters, etc. If you would like to volunteer, please let me know and we can start working out the details. Thank you, Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.229.0232 Cell 979.731.1721 Home
Re: [Texascavers] Cave Photo Gear
First, should we move this thread off Texascavers? Second, and continuing.. Nice to know that the 9V works with the capacitor. I would prefer not to have the battery hanging out the back though... I can still get the 15v batteries while I can get them. I also don't know how long they will last both using the capacitor and without.. I did bypass the capacitor and plugged the 15V straight to the switch and it worked fine to fire the bulbs, so thats a good alternative if you don't need it slaved.. One other thing (as you can tell, I am not all that electricaly smart), there is no on/off switch on the Honeywells, do you have to take the battery out every time you are done using it? I would imagine it would drain the battery keeping the charge in the capacitor.. I have tried home made lights. I took the folding reflector off of a Ricoh flash unit, placed it on a bulb socket for car's taillight and made a 9v battery pack that connects to it. It works well but you have to have a bulb adapter for smaller bulbs. I have a RCA type connection between the two so I can use the 9v with various other home made flashes of all sorts, from under water bulbs on long wires, to the big bulbs using the speedgraphic flashguns or light bulb sockets.. It works well, and is fairly good, but you have to carry a bunch of stuff. Hence why I am using trying the honeywells that take both the M2b size and the medium bayonet size bulbs.. That would reduce weight, increase reliability and can be slaved... Rob, I didn't think about using series AAs, but that would probably work (shooting in Bulb mode). AAs are big too and probably wouldn't fit in the little compartment (again, my preference). But there are other batteries that might.. I will track down some new capacitors (I have already had some offered, THANKS!) and try that until I can't get the 15V batteries anymore.. Thanks again! TS - Original Message - From: "Brian Masney" To: "Travis Scott" Cc: "TexasCavers. com" Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave Photo Gear You definitely want to use the capacitor. You can use the new capacitor with the 9V battery but the 9V battery does not fit in the compartment with the capacitor. I used some tape to attach the battery to the side of my flash unit. I took a picture of one of my Honeywell flash guns for you: http://flickr.com/photos/masneyb/2217801408/ I also made two small flashguns out of PVC pipe that will take a bulb with a medium screw base. (This allows you to fire larger bulbs such as #2s and #3s.) I am going to make a small adapter that screws in that will allow me to fire the same bulbs as the Honeywell Tilt-A-Mite. I also need to make some reflectors that fold up in a compact manner. I am hoping that this will (slightly) reduce the amount of photography gear that I need to take in for caves that require a combination of large and small bulbs. Here is a picture of the new gun: http://flickr.com/photos/masneyb/2103975183/ Brian On Jan 24, 2008 6:26 PM, Travis Scott wrote: Brian, Great, thanks. I figured I could get the right capacitor, but didn't think it would fit, and didn't know if it would work right. I'll check it out. Thanks! Does the 9v work with the capacitor, or had you just bypassed the capacitor on that unit and just connected the 9V straight to the green switch? If the 9V works with the capacitor, thats GREAT, then you can still use it with a slave.. The one with the bad capacitor, I just bypassed it, but would prefer to use it with the capacitor (for the sake of using it with the firefly). Also, I looked at the 9V option, seems they don't fit inside the battery/capacitor compartment.. Especially with the capacitor in it. Am I wrong or missing something? Thanks for the help!!! Travis (native Texan caver, wishing I had caves like you have there!) - Original Message - From: "Brian Masney" To: "Travis Scott" Cc: "TexasCavers.com" Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave Photo Gear > Hey Travis, > I had the exact same problem with several of my Honeywell > Tilt-a-Mites. I took my old capacitor to Radio Shack and I was able to > find one with the same rating. Be sure to purchase one where the > positive and negative terminals are on opposite ends. This allows you > to solder the capacitor to the flash unit. Also, be sure to get one > that allows the capacitor to fit in the same compartment as the old > one. It should only cost you $2 or so for the right part. > I needed to replace the 15V battery in two of my flashes. Those > batteries can be a little bit expensive and hard to find. I bought at > Radio Shack some 9V battery terminals and I soldered the ends to the > flash gun. A standard 9V battery
Re: [Texascavers] Cave Photo Gear
Brian, Great, thanks. I figured I could get the right capacitor, but didn't think it would fit, and didn't know if it would work right. I'll check it out. Thanks! Does the 9v work with the capacitor, or had you just bypassed the capacitor on that unit and just connected the 9V straight to the green switch? If the 9V works with the capacitor, thats GREAT, then you can still use it with a slave.. The one with the bad capacitor, I just bypassed it, but would prefer to use it with the capacitor (for the sake of using it with the firefly). Also, I looked at the 9V option, seems they don't fit inside the battery/capacitor compartment.. Especially with the capacitor in it. Am I wrong or missing something? Thanks for the help!!! Travis (native Texan caver, wishing I had caves like you have there!) - Original Message - From: "Brian Masney" To: "Travis Scott" Cc: "TexasCavers.com" Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave Photo Gear Hey Travis, I had the exact same problem with several of my Honeywell Tilt-a-Mites. I took my old capacitor to Radio Shack and I was able to find one with the same rating. Be sure to purchase one where the positive and negative terminals are on opposite ends. This allows you to solder the capacitor to the flash unit. Also, be sure to get one that allows the capacitor to fit in the same compartment as the old one. It should only cost you $2 or so for the right part. I needed to replace the 15V battery in two of my flashes. Those batteries can be a little bit expensive and hard to find. I bought at Radio Shack some 9V battery terminals and I soldered the ends to the flash gun. A standard 9V battery will work just fine. The only problem that I noticed though is the test light on the flash no longer works properly. I've used my flash units like this for the last year and a half or so. Brian (Lurker on the list from West Virginia) On Jan 24, 2008 1:33 PM, Travis Scott wrote: Cavers and the like, I have been working on my photo gear lately. I am trying to get some Honeywell Tilt-a-Mites up and running. I have a few already, but one problem I have found is that the capacitors have gone bad in a few of them (what are they, 40 years old?). I figured that throughout the folks on Texas Cavers, someone might actually have an old Honeywell or two (or at maybe even some old capacitors from the Honeywells that they beat to hell in a cave and don't work anymore) that they don't use anymore that they wouldn't mind passing on to another photographer who might be able to use it/them or their parts. Just a shot in the dark, figured I would throw it out there. If you fit this description and would like to give to the needy, please let me know. I really appreciate it!! Thanks! TS You can see what I have been doing with my current (shall I say, insufficient, frustrating, lacking) setup at www.oztotl.com/travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cave Photo Gear
Cavers and the like, I have been working on my photo gear lately. I am trying to get some Honeywell Tilt-a-Mites up and running. I have a few already, but one problem I have found is that the capacitors have gone bad in a few of them (what are they, 40 years old?). I figured that throughout the folks on Texas Cavers, someone might actually have an old Honeywell or two (or at maybe even some old capacitors from the Honeywells that they beat to hell in a cave and don't work anymore) that they don't use anymore that they wouldn't mind passing on to another photographer who might be able to use it/them or their parts. Just a shot in the dark, figured I would throw it out there. If you fit this description and would like to give to the needy, please let me know. I really appreciate it!! Thanks! TS You can see what I have been doing with my current (shall I say, insufficient, frustrating, lacking) setup at www.oztotl.com/travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Searching for Jacqui B and Kel T.
I have old emails for you two and need to discuss some juicy caving related ultra-cool subjects with you, can you contact me (email preferred) off-listserve when you get a chance Thanks! Travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re:OT-Evolution
I have to chime in here and make a comment regarding the general attitude and lack of respect of what seems to be many-a-caver on this list... After taking this conversation from being a rude belittling argument and turning it into a nice pleasant discussion regarding evolution and religion (which I think many people were glad to finally see, thanks Brian), it has now been taken full circle to the offensive, rude, and dogmatic. I don't understand why the people on Texascavers can't be polite, respectful and intelligent, especially when it comes to the possibility of severely offending some fellow cavers, no matter what the topic, religious or not. This conversation had actually matured from this sort of content and now is back to crap again, thanks for that. I am almost constantly amazed at how rude, arrogant, dogmatic, and down right offensive "Texas Cavers" can be. I find it impressive that these people think they are s right, that ANYONE who believes something different is, let me quote, "stupid". This is a public forum, can't people make the slightest effort to be polite and respectful to each other? Do you people act this way at work, to family, to friends? If not, why do it to your fellow cavers? I do know of a good few folks that have actually been completely turned off from and have quit caving by "cavers" that act this way, specifically on this listserve too. By the way, there are also land owners on this list, these are the people we need to respect and make the biggest effort to show that we are somewhat intelligent, RESPECTFUL and professional to. Piss them off and how will you ever go caving (whats that?)? On another note, I agree with Linda. This whole thing is way off topic. This list has increasingly gotten worse about OT subjects over the last few months and is getting quite frustrating. In fact, another list was even been set up so people that really care about Caving (whats that again?) can actually talk about caving and not have to filter through this shit to find it.. Sorry, had to throw that out.. Travis - Original Message - From: Don Cooper To: caverc...@maverickgrotto.org Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Evolution -- the facts and theory OK. I am not going to try to convince anyone the earth is a globe - and not flat. Yet there are pea-brained people that think just that. Believe in a Flat World? FINE. If you aren't on the evolution bandwagon - If you think a magic dude or specific plan was necessary to cause it all to happen - FINE. You are limited. Be stupid. I don't care! Evolution is real. The creator is the mechanism itself. Old holy presumptions are simply ignorant and why anyone holds on them is NOT our problem. Let's move on and just FORGET this creationism crap. Let the apologist speak for the weaknesses of their own faith. But I don't care to listen. -WaV
[Texascavers] Cave photography
I have a few inquires for the general cave public, specifically those that do cave photography... I have been delved into digital for soo long now that I have forgotten which films work best for caving, if there are any. I plan on shooting a bit of film with my digital and I would probably shoot slide (although I have not been happy with my slide scanner by any means) but would prefer print film. Does anyone know or have tested the "best" film for cave photos? (for example, I know that I prefer Fuji Velvia for most outdoor slide shots from experience, anyone else have the same preferences for cave photos??) Secondly, I am wondering if anyone knows of a way to obtain some decent underwater flashes for cave photos, preferably slaved. I use bulbs a lot and they can be shot underwater, but they have been a source of much frustration for me lately (reliable bulb guns are hard to come by and not slaved). Does anyone have some old waterproof flashes they would like to sell for a decent price, or know of a resource for such things? I have found that they are quite expensive and my budget is very limited at the moment (just got a new camera).. Any and all help would be much appreciated!! Thanks a bunch!!! Travis Scott www.oztotl.com/Travis - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Future Caving Vehicle?
For the earth friendly cavers, a new, small concept off-road vehicle.. It's made for bikes, but would probably fit a ton of caving gear.. http://www.worldcarfans.com/9071010.016/daihatsu-mud-master-c-concept-tokyo-preview
Re: [Texascavers] Terlingua and Big Bend mines
Here is some info on Silver Mine Pass http://www.milebymile.com/main/United_States/Texas/photo_17743.html Interesting stuff.. Travis - Original Message - From: Fritz Holt To: Carl Kunath Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com ; jhol...@hotmail.com ; mandy.h...@ers.state.tx.us ; bl...@vownet.net Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:38 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Terlingua and Big Bend mines Greetings Carl and other cavers, The various posts on Big Bend area mines and caves leads me to ask if anyone, especially old-timers, has any information on what I believe to be some very old mines in Uvalde County, near Concan. I believe that these mines are older than the mercury, silver and other types of mineral mines in Big Bend as I have not heard of any history on them. Could they have been dug by Spanish explorers or by American Indians? The mine pits in question are presumed to have been dug for silver. In the mid to late 1950's some friends and I looked into a very deep shaft which was accessed through a very short hand-dug tunnel in the side of a hill and then made a vertical drop of undetermined depth. We could not get close to the edge to peer in as the shaft had a gradual but steep slope which consisted of loose caliche type soil. Being amateur spelunkers, we had no equipment other than lights and did not do vertical. It sounded deep based on falling rocks which we tossed in. Time has dimmed my recollection of how we learned of these mines other than the fact that certain places of interest such as Devil's Sinkhole, Goodenough Spring and these shafts, shown as Silver Mine Pass, were highlighted in red type on oil company maps which were given free at service stations during this period. I'm sure that I obtained help with the exact location from the Neals and the Buchannans at Neal's Frio River Camp at Concan. I will give the location for identification purposes as these mines are on property which I am told is now owned by Governor Dolph Brisco who does not allow outsiders on his various properties. I have heard speculation that these mine shafts may have been bulldozed shut by the governor but this has not been confirmed. Silver Mine Pass is located on Highway 83, estimated at two to four miles south of its intersection with highway 127 and a mile or two north of the road to Reagan Wells. Going south from 127 there is a very noticeable rise or pass before reaching the Dry Frio River and Regan Wells road. The mines are/were on the west side of the highway and within 100 yards or less of 83. Three or four hot summers ago I poked around the area for a short while in an attempt to locate them but to no avail. I haven't tried to Google Silver Mine Pass but doubt that it would have information on this location. Does anyone know of or have information on these mines? Inquiring but lazy minds want to know. Fritz Holt -- From: Carl Kunath [mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:29 AM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] Terlingua and Big Bend mines For more information about the Terlingua/Big Bend area: See Texas Speleological Survey publication Volume 4 Number 1, The Caves of Brewster and Western Pecos County. On pages 29-31 there is a map and description of Waldron Cave, a segment of Colquitt-Tigner Mine. On pages 12-15 there is a map and description of Little Thirty-Eight Mine, another combination of natural cave passages and hard-rock mining. The area is full of mines and many of them originated in, or intersected with, natural cavities. When Terlingua-Study Butte was completely abandoned in the middle 1960s, visitors were free to roam the area. One needed to watch his step as the ground was dotted with open mine shafts with no covers or railings of any sort. It's amazing that none of the drunken revelers were killed during the first Chili cook-offs in the late 1960s. In earlier days, most of these mines were open and available for exploration. Many contained original wooden ladders that were still safe because of the dry conditions prevailing in the area. On one occasion we visited and partially explored the Mariscal Mine at the north end of Mariscal Mountain in Big Bend National Park. This large mine produced 25% of the entire U.S. mercury production in the decades prior to WWII. The entrance was open and we found the mine reasonably safe to explore and still containing numerous mining relics. As far as area mines go, the Presidio Mine at Shafter is likely the granddaddy of them all. Friends of mine have a viewed a map reportedly showing over 100 miles of tunnels. Cavers from Sul Ross visited the area several times and I can testify that the mine(s) are extensive and very confusing. I think this mine also encountere
Re: [Texascavers] Aggie Speleological Society at TCR
I am pretty sure the the official Texas A+M records state that ASS was first recognized in 1977. Whether there was a grotto before or after that, I can't say.. But officially, ASS is 30 years old. TS - Original Message - From: jerryat...@aol.com To: alan.blev...@gmail.com ; Texascavers@texascavers.com ; aggie-cav...@listserv.tamu.edu Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Aggie Speleological Society at TCR Unfortunately, this is not the 30th anniversary of the Aggie Speleological Society. That distinction passed us by 4 years ago. The first meeting of ASS occurred in September 1973 and was attended by 55 prospective members; in large part due to the efforts of Alicia Wisener, one of the grotto's first officers. The grotto published the Guano newsletter from 1974 to 1977, the Undergrounder in 1979, and the ASS Explorer sporadically from 1995 to present. You can read about the history of ASS in 50 Years of Texas Caving, which will be arriving from the printers in early December. But don't let the 34th anniversary of the grotto pass at TCR without raising a toast to old traditions, past and present ASSes, and future memories !! ASS is one of the oldest student grottos around. Jerry. In a message dated 10/18/2007 3:45:19 P.M. Central Standard Time, alan.blev...@gmail.com writes: As you may know from e-mails sent through the Texascavers list over the summer, this year is the 30th anniversary of the Aggie Speleological Society (ASS, from here on). Although we won't be having ASS awards, as I think George Veni suggested, I would like to invite all former, current, friends of, and tangentially associated members of ASS to gather and visit on Saturday morning / afternoon. We will have a shade shelter of some sort set up somewhere at TCR, which will be identified by the ASS banner hanging from it. Come hang out, have a drink, and share stories of your adventures with ASS. I think a wise man once said, "Even after you've left College Station, deep down inside, you know you're still an ASS" - or something like that. ASS will be running a caving-themed obstacle course this year, to be held in the same general area (glamorous prizes for the winners to be awarded Saturday night). We will also be introducing a new event involving beer and a squeezebox. It should be a lot of fun! Hope to see you there, ~Alan Blevins ASS Secretary -- See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead and TSS publications :
David and all, Both Station C and Red Arrow caves have been visited in recent years and have a caver-land owner relationship. You can see photos here: www.oztotl.com/travis Red Arrow houses a large bat population near the entrance, so it is not a good one for the ICS. Station C houses some bats, but they roost further back in the cave. We will probably have a few trips to Station C during the ICS. Seacrest has also been visited in recent years and is in the process of being surveyed for the land owner. It too houses a large population of bats and can't be used for the ICS (notice a trend here?). Unfortunately several of the more sizeable and nice caves house bats, I REALLY wish the ICS was not mid summer so it would not be sooo difficult to find good caves that don't have bats. There are several websites for the Hill Country that have ranches for sale and often mention caves. A quick check every once in a while has found that several caves have sold, and some new ones (to cavers at least) have been found and explored. Travis - Original Message - From: "David Locklear" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead and TSS publications : Here is a cave near the ICS-NSS event: http://www.oztotl.com/Images/TSimages/2004/StationC/IMG_9352.JPG I have been wanting to go to that cave for over 20 years. Another cave over in Real County, "Red Arrow Cave," is one that I have wanted to go to. I seem to recall there were some trips there a few years ago, unless I am confusing it with another cave. What is the status of "Secrest Cave?" Most of the small towns have a newspaper of some kind.Has anybody ever ran an advertisement such as "Caves Wanted," or "We buy caves!" Most of us frown upon paying ranchers for access to caves.But what if that is the only chance to get a cave trip during the convention? David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: some un-official 2009 NSS Convention info
> Will there be any trips to Stower's Cave? There should be, anyone want to lead some trips? > Also, I have never seen Devil's Sinkhole; although, I have had several > opportunities. I would like to do that and go down into it if > possible. > Keep your fingers crossed! TS
Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead ??
David and others interested in Kerr County caves for the ICS. There is no publication for the county as Mark mentioned. There are a few caves that are being considered for the ICS. I am in charge of the day caving trips during the convention and am working hard to find as many good caves as I can close to Kerrville for trips that week. One major problem is bats are keeping a lot of the caves close to Kerrville from being used, we don't want to disturb them. If anyone has any ideas or leads that need to be tidied up, please let me know so we can check them for the ICS.. I am looking for as much help leading caving trips, if anyone is intersted in leading or helping lead caving during the ICS, please let me know.. There indeed is a cave north of Lost Maples, however TXDOT has put a permanent gate on the cave and it has no door for access. Please do NOT attempt to breech the gate, I believe someone is actively working on getting access to the cave for cavers and research again. Plus, one time not too long ago we were standing at the entrance watching to see if flood waters would flow in when the nearby land owner pulled up to talk to us and see what we were doing. He told us "you don't want to go into that cave anyways" we said "why?" he responded "cause when you come out, you'll have my shotgun pointing in your face". Yes, there is some real problems getting into ranches, hence the rancher in the above story, but we are working on that too. Travis - Original Message - From: "David Locklear" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 2:41 PM Subject: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead ?? I got this e-mail today from an caving friend who used to live near Kerrville back in the 80's: There is a small cave right along the side of the road just north of Lost Maples State Natural Area. Since the entrance is essentially in a ditch in the right-of-way, my friends and I never had any problem going into it - the local landowner never complained. It had a strong airflow near the back, which always intrigued me. I don't know of any cave closer to Kerrville. ... Getting access to any potential caves there is a problem, as ranchers are cautious about letting people on their property. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Fountain again
After reading your email better, I see that you have already been in contact with him. I wasn't trying to hog access, just offering to help out. Let me know if you need the help, we might even be able to join ya. It looks like a nice cave, I didn't get a chance to go as I was surveying in Lucky A cave last time. Also, I see that my email was "edited" wrongly by spell checker (sorry), aw, how great technology is! TS - Original Message - From: "Fritz Holt" To: "Darla" ; Cc: ; Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Frio River Float Trip Report Hello Darla, The Frio has been my favorite haunt since 1950 when I had my first camp-out off of the river road north of Concan. When daughters Mandy and Jenny were young we spent happy times camping at Garner. The entrance was moved twice since we first started going there. While I haven't done any tubing I still enjoy snorkeling and walking the Frio. We still like to visit Garner and hike to the top of Old Baldy for the fantastic view of the river, campground and surrounding countryside. Clear water and a two foot rise on the Frio, sounds as if you picked the perfect time for tubing. I could go for some of that. My daughters and I will be spending August 25-27 at Cold Springs on the Frio which is upriver and less than two miles from Garner's entrance. While there I hope to get a few interested cavers together for a short trip into what I was told was Fountain Cave. It overlooks the Nueces River on highway 335 north of Camp wood, Barksdale and Vance, in that order. The owner, Realtor Jesse Lockhart of Barksdale said that cavers are welcome with notification and signed releases. We visited this cave in about 1970 when the girls were small and found it most interesting. After you ford the shallow Nueces and climb the hillside to the entrance, it is an easy, dry walking cave with no vertical work that I noticed. It should be hot outside but after viewing the cave the cold Nueces will be most inviting. I believe that Travis Scott may have recently visited a similar cave adjacent to this ranch. This cave is not far from the Devil's Sinkhole. We will be doing this preferably Saturday afternoon or Sunday. Anyone interested in meeting in Barksdale can e-mail or call me. My cell is 713-818-2496. Fritz -Original Message- From: Darla [mailto:dbis...@zipnet.us] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:41 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Frio River Float Trip Report Not to change the subject. We had the best tubing trip on the Frio River over the weekend of July 20-22. We arrived at a usual summer weekendan overflowing Garner State Park around 4:00 p.m. on Friday, set up camp and played in the crystal clear river for a while. Following the jukebox dance we came back to camp and after several attempts finally had a campfire just as it started to rain. It continued to rain until around noon thirty on Saturday and the river was roaring. Half of the campers left early Saturday morning (and were probably stuck because of closed highways) and by 2:30 p.m. we had room to move around and sunshine. The river was running pretty muddy but we still managed to play around a bit but put off our tubing until Sunday. Sunday morning the river was running clear again and at approximately 2,000 cfs and 2 ft. above normal gage height. We did the 4 hour float in about 3 hours. Caves and springs were observed and a great time was had by all. Darla - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Fountain Cave/Frio
Fritz and all, I forgot to let you know Fritz (sorry!!! things have been crazy busy and it completely slipped my mind) that we had recently visited Fountain Cave and started re-surveying it for Mr. Lockhart. A neighboring rancher has secured access for us and we set up a trip to finish surveying her cave (Luck A Cave) and sent a few teams into Fountain while there since it's just about a thousand feet from Lucky A. David Ochel got some good pics of Fountain too. We hope to get a report into the Texas Caver at some point (just need someone to write it!). If you want to go while at the Frio Fritz, let me know and I can work out access or at least get you in contact with the access since we have already been going. We may actually be at the Frio that weekend too! If anyone else wants to visit the cave another time, we'll have at least one more survey trip to the cave sometime in the future, probably September, let me know if you are interested (and I'll try not to forget you too). I am in the process of collecting the survey data and will get started on the map someday, hopefully soon. Also, the Frio is a great, wonderful place. Its getting crowded though... So crowded that we have decided to stop telling bringing new fold to the river. We started going years ago, brought friends, then they brought friends, then those friends brought friends, and a vicious cycle of crowding unfolded before our eyes, etc.. So now we see that we have added yet another chain of folks bombarding the best river Texas has and feel bad about it (like over visiting a cave!). Travis - Original Message - From: "Fritz Holt" To: "Darla" ; Cc: ; Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Frio River Float Trip Report Hello Darla, The Frio has been my favorite haunt since 1950 when I had my first camp-out off of the river road north of Concan. When daughters Mandy and Jenny were young we spent happy times camping at Garner. The entrance was moved twice since we first started going there. While I haven't done any tubing I still enjoy snorkeling and walking the Frio. We still like to visit Garner and hike to the top of Old Baldy for the fantastic view of the river, campground and surrounding countryside. Clear water and a two foot rise on the Frio, sounds as if you picked the perfect time for tubing. I could go for some of that. My daughters and I will be spending August 25-27 at Cold Springs on the Frio which is upriver and less than two miles from Garner's entrance. While there I hope to get a few interested cavers together for a short trip into what I was told was Fountain Cave. It overlooks the Nueces River on highway 335 north of Camp wood, Barksdale and Vance, in that order. The owner, Realtor Jesse Lockhart of Barksdale said that cavers are welcome with notification and signed releases. We visited this cave in about 1970 when the girls were small and found it most interesting. After you ford the shallow Nueces and climb the hillside to the entrance, it is an easy, dry walking cave with no vertical work that I noticed. It should be hot outside but after viewing the cave the cold Nueces will be most inviting. I believe that Travis Scott may have recently visited a similar cave adjacent to this ranch. This cave is not far from the Devil's Sinkhole. We will be doing this preferably Saturday afternoon or Sunday. Anyone interested in meeting in Barksdale can e-mail or call me. My cell is 713-818-2496. Fritz -Original Message- From: Darla [mailto:dbis...@zipnet.us] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:41 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Frio River Float Trip Report Not to change the subject. We had the best tubing trip on the Frio River over the weekend of July 20-22. We arrived at a usual summer weekendan overflowing Garner State Park around 4:00 p.m. on Friday, set up camp and played in the crystal clear river for a while. Following the jukebox dance we came back to camp and after several attempts finally had a campfire just as it started to rain. It continued to rain until around noon thirty on Saturday and the river was roaring. Half of the campers left early Saturday morning (and were probably stuck because of closed highways) and by 2:30 p.m. we had room to move around and sunshine. The river was running pretty muddy but we still managed to play around a bit but put off our tubing until Sunday. Sunday morning the river was running clear again and at approximately 2,000 cfs and 2 ft. above normal gage height. We did the 4 hour float in about 3 hours. Caves and springs were observed and a great time was had by all. Darla - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Cropping Photos
You can also just save it as a TIF file or PSD file, and it will save the transparent layer. If you want to use the image for the web, or similar graphics, go to Help (in CS2 at least) and there is a Export Transparent Image that will walk you through saving the file. I suggest GIF for web. Travis - Original Message - From: Minton, Mark To: nmcaver list ; txcaver Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Cropping Photos One thing to be aware of when making circular (and probably other non-rectangular) crops is that if you want to save the cropped image as is you must choose a format which supports transparent background; otherwise you end up with a round image in a white square. JPEG, for instance, does not support this and you end up with an image that looks the same as if you'd done a rectangular crop from a white background. GIF is one format that does support transparent background. Then you can paste the round image onto something else and not see any white corners. Mark Minton
[Texascavers] 2009 ICS Day Caving Trips
Howdy Cavers, As you hopefully know, the 2009 NSS Convention and International Congress of Speleology will be held in Kerrville, Texas on July 19-26th (2009). Before, after, and during the convention there will be all sorts of activities going on including caving trips and week long expeditions. During the week of the convention however, the caving trips will be narrowed down to day trips throughout the week with Wednesday being the big day for longer more involved trips. I am currently in charge of the day caving trips for the week of the convention. Since there will likely be several trips to several caves going on at the same time I will need help, help going caving. Its tough, I know. I hope some of you can handle that!! I am looking for volunteers to lead day caving trips during the convention. The trips will range from short drives to somewhat nearby caves to long day trips to caves further away. They will range in size based on what the cave can handle with minimum impact. Transportation methods will be based on vehicle accessibility, trip size, etc. I need some volunteers that can start working with me soon to start visiting some of these caves, become familiar with the caves, and get to know the land owners a bit so that they can lead trips into these caves during the convention. Several well known caves are already on my wish list for day trips which have been visited by many of you and won't require any pre-convention caving trips, while others may not have been visited since the 60's and need to be tracked down. I am starting to venture out and check out some of these old caves/leads to see if they are worth using for the ICS. I need volunteers for both the well known cave trips as well as volunteers that can start caving with me pretty soon as I check out old caves/leads so that they can become familiar with the caves for the conventions. I have already had a few volunteers and I MUCH appreciate the help. I will need more though. Cavers will be coming in from around the globe and I would like to offer as many choices for caving opportunities as possible. I would ideally like to have caving trips going on each day, that makes for a lot of volunteers. Please spread the word around at your meetings, put it in your newsletters, etc. If you would like to volunteer, please let me know and we can start working out the details. Thank you, Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com 979.229.0232 Cell 979.731.1721 Home - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Caves for sale in Texas or anywhere?
I have noticed that when you reply to a message (as in the message below) that it automatically goes to the list, not the sender. I just need to get used to that, sorry... - Original Message - From: "Travis Scott" To: Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves for sale in Texas or anywhere? > Oh, just found out that Brehmers might still be for sale, but it's pricy > and > a bat cave, and not the longest in the state (1000' long). If he is > interested, let me know.. > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 8:28 PM > Subject: [Texascavers] Caves for sale in Texas or anywhere? > > >>A realtor has contacted me through the TSA Web site and is representing >>someone who is interested in buying property with a cave in Texas or >>Arkansas. Does anyone know property for sale with a cave? >> >> Bill >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list >> Texascavers@texascavers.com >> http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com >> > > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list > Texascavers@texascavers.com > http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com > ___ Texascavers mailing list Texascavers@texascavers.com http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Halloween Photos
http://www.oztotl.com/Pages/2005/halloween05.html A few photos showing the costumes.. Travis Scott ___ Texascavers mailing list Texascavers@texascavers.com http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Caves for sale in Texas or anywhere?
Oh, just found out that Brehmers might still be for sale, but it's pricy and a bat cave, and not the longest in the state (1000' long). If he is interested, let me know.. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 8:28 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Caves for sale in Texas or anywhere? >A realtor has contacted me through the TSA Web site and is representing >someone who is interested in buying property with a cave in Texas or >Arkansas. Does anyone know property for sale with a cave? > > Bill > ___ > Texascavers mailing list > Texascavers@texascavers.com > http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com > ___ Texascavers mailing list Texascavers@texascavers.com http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com
Correct info for Texascavers listserve
While I am on a roll here and really showing off my bright side, I might as well send out a link for the Texascavers listserve information. Instructions for this listserve are found here: http://www.texascavers.com/guide.html Sorry, I will stop sending emails now!! Travis - Original Message - From: Ranzau, Joe To: Travis Scott Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: RE: Please remove me from your mailing list Wrong Listserve... -- From: Travis Scott [mailto:tra...@oztotl.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:34 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: Please remove me from your mailing list In an effort to help our officers out, I am sending out the info you need to remove yourselves from the listserve. When you sign onto the Aggie Listserve, you recieve two informational emails. One of these emails has tons of good information on the list serve, how it works, and how to use it. One thing it includes is how to add and remove yourself from the listserve. I copied these instructions below so anyone can remove themselves anytime they want. You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF AGGIE-CAVERS" command to lists...@listserv.tamu.edu. Leave the subject line blank and type "SIGNOFF AGGIE-CAVERS" in the message (without quotations). This will remove you from the listserve. If anyone wants the full email with all of the other instructions, you can go to: http://listserv.tamu.edu/ Hope this helps!! Travis - Original Message - From: Ryder, Michael G Dr BAMC-Ft Sam Houston To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:24 PM Subject: RE: Please remove me from your mailing list I would also like to be removed. thanks. From: bl...@aol.com [mailto:bl...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:01 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Please remove me from your mailing list Please remove my name and address fron your mail list. bl...@aol.com
CaveTex: Devil's Sinkhole in the news
The Devil's Sinkhole has been in the news quite a bit lately.. The Texas Parks and wildlife as well as Texas Highways both had articles and photos about Rocksprings and DS this past month. I just got the Texas Coop Power magazine and found and article on DS with a photo by Kurt Menking and the same photo is on the cover of the Travel section of the Houston Chronicle with an article today. Chronicle article: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/travel/3324065 Texas Coop will PDF the magazing and post it here soon: http://www.texas-ec.org/publications/ Travis Scott To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex. For help and information go to www.cavetex.net. List administrator: mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net
CaveTex: Brehmers Cave for sale (quickly!!)
Cavers, I just got a call from the owner of Brehmers Cave (and a few other caves on the property) near New Braunfels. The owner of the cave is being forced to sell the cave and the 99 acres for money to take care of family members. She is very distressed about it as she is very concerned about the future of the cave and the maternal bat colony that uses it. She is a great cave owner who has looked out for the cave and bats for years. She has been talking with me and others for months trying to decide what to do, how not to sell the land, and how to preserve the cave if she does sell. It has come down to the wire and she has to sell and has an offer for the land and the cave. Unfortunately there are issues (like access for example) keeping the cave and the surrounding land from being split and kept or sold separately. She asked that I throw out one last attempt to let cavers have the cave. The property is going for $8,000/acre and might sell soon, that is unless she has an offer from someone she knows will protect the cave. That doesn't leave much time, but she asked me to throw it out there. The cave is 1000 feet long and ranges from large walking passage to smaller passage. There is a hole punched in the large room where guano was mined that makes a nice skylight. The cave is also rich in history. It isn't the longest cave in Texas, but definitely an important one. It is a fun recreational cave that houses an important maternal colony of bats, whose habitats are constantly being destroyed. There are several other caves on the property including Little Brehmers and several holes she has found over the years that haven't been dug or even checked to my knowledge. If anyone can help, let me know and I'll pass you along. I am leaving town tonight for the weekend and might not have good cell coverage, but try anyways if you are interested... I'll be by email until 5 tonight and on my cell phone after that. Thanks! Travis Scott 979.229.0232 Cell To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex. For help and information go to www.cavetex.net. List administrator: mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net
