Re: [Texascavers] The Wall

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

To provide slightly different viewpoint, population growth of course is slowing 
- in fact developed countries have already peaked in terms of their population 
curves - so fears of population surplus are probably unfounded - see 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-17/peak-population-growth or 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101018722

In fact the Western Europe is below replacement levels - Germany for example is 
at about 1.4 child per women - well below 2.1-2.2 needed to keep population 
stable.

And fertility rates are shrinking rapidly throughout the world in response to 
aftermath of global economic crisis of 2008. So likely projections of peak 
population are overstated David.

RK



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From: Texascavers  on behalf of David via 
Texascavers 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:25:48 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] The Wall

President Trump should build a humongous enormous gigantic "hollow" wall with 
cracks big enough for small mammals and birds to get in to.This would 
create a very beneficial buffer-zone / wildlife-refuge from the loss of 
important habitats as the population of the human race rapidly expands in the 
21st and 22nd Centuries.Think of it as a fake artificial reef or Noah's 
Ark.We could call it "The Majestic Trump Ark."

It is our last and only chance to save the coati and rare bats and other 
southwestern endangered species.

Please forward this email.

David Locklear
dlocklea...@gmail.com
NSS #27639

Please tell all your friends to click "Like" on my Facebook page to become 
U.S.Ambassador to Mexico.
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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Jerry,
To channel old 'copperknob', insulting Heather means you have no heart, 
insulting me means you have no brain. But I am very sober this morning, and you 
are still very ugly inside.
Stop insulting people, you are not helping yourself or TSA by doing so. If you 
don't like the caver, volunteer to help the editor or take over it's duties in 
the future.
RK

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On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 7:41 AM -0500, "Jerry via Texascavers" 
 wrote:





RK,

As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite a 
bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your Texas 
Cavers.

As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver of 
late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it goes to 
the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one doesn't know if 
the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and the editor in the 
past has ignored the advice that has been given her from several folks that 
actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to beat their heads against 
the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) as you 
call it.

Jerry Atkinson (old coon).



-Original Message-
From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
To: texascavers 
Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)



Jerry,


You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic 
traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon.


You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas 
Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth.


RK


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_
From: via Texascavers 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
To:  
Cc:  



I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or 
climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate.


Jerry.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
 wrote:




Jerry,


It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you 
have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you 
embarrass yourself any more.


RK


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On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via 
Texascavers" wrote:



What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly 
edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to 
extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology 
for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where 
credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr 
even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the 
editor.


Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an 
officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than 
send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a 
TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem.


And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, 
edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past 
editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been 
involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how 
things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work.


You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting 
on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required 
by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. 
The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create 
an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want 
to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving 
publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly 
squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference 
the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a 
TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of 
the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing 
disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it 
difficult.


And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, 
you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of 
our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and 
applause even for a poor job

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Jerry,  
You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic 
traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon.
You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas 
Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. 
RK
Get Outlook for iOS

_
From: via Texascavers 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
To:  
Cc:  


I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or 
climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate.
Jerry.

Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
 wrote:

Jerry,
It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you 
have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you 
embarrass yourself any more.
RK

Get Outlook for iOS



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via 
Texascavers" wrote:

What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly 
edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to 
extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology 
for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where 
credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr 
even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the 
editor.
Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an 
officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than 
send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a 
TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. 
And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, 
edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past 
editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been 
involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how 
things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr 
work. 
You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting 
on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required 
by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. 
The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create 
an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want 
to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving 
publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly 
squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference 
the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a 
TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of 
the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing 
disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it 
difficult.
And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, 
you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of 
our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and 
applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to 
put into their work.
This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and 
hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came 
before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're 
watching.
Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers 
 wrote:

Wow Jerry.  Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who has 
nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers positive 
criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with something 
they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts off aside 
from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that people have 
been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just to make you 
focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that most people don't 
know about (yet don't get help finding).  Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this 
group. 

-sincerely, your pissed off former secretary. 


On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers 
 wrote:

I am in awe.

Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to 
return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that 
"Haule"is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the municipality of 
O

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Jerry,
It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you 
have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you 
embarrass yourself any more.
RK

Get Outlook for iOS




On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers" 
 wrote:





What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly 
edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to 
extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology 
for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where 
credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr 
even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the 
editor.

Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an 
officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than 
send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a 
TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem.

And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, 
edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past 
editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been 
involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how 
things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work.

You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting 
on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required 
by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. 
The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create 
an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want 
to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving 
publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly 
squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference 
the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a 
TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of 
the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing 
disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it 
difficult.

And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, 
you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of 
our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and 
applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to 
put into their work.

This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and 
hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came 
before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're 
watching.

Jerry Atkinson.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers 
 wrote:

> Wow Jerry.  Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who 
> has nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers 
> positive criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with 
> something they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts 
> off aside from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that 
> people have been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just 
> to make you focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that 
> most people don't know about (yet don't get help finding).
>
> Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this group.
>
>
> -sincerely, your pissed off former secretary.
>
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
>
>> I am in awe.
>>
>> Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to 
>> return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that 
>> "Haule" is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the  
>> municipality of Ooststellingwerf in the east of Friesland in the Netherlands
>>
>> I was astounded to find that I have been spelling "flow stone" incorrectly 
>> all these years.  And who authored the "Forged in Fire" photo montage of 
>> some unknown cave(s) somewhere in Hawaii at some unknown date. At least 
>> there were photo captions identifying the people, if not the cave, unlike 
>> most of the other articles.
>>
>> I did enjoy the articles, and I appreciate the effort that the authors put 
>> forward for the enjoyment of us all. I hope you continue to submit articles 
>> in the future despite this issue.
>>
>> Really, folks, I understand that you all wanted to get this issue out before 
>> TCR and were probably rushed, but "Damn !"  If the polished trappings 
>> and fancy layout are the reasons for the bargain basement e

[Texascavers] Real alternative trip to the NSS Convention

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

After flurry of posts about NSS convention road trip, this is a real 
alternative report. Mark Gee made it there safe, drove straight from Dallas TX 
to Ely NV in 23 hours and 50 minutes, 1477 miles in total, if I heard it 
correctly on the phone- so averaging about 60 miles an hour. That's accounting 
for traffic in Las Vegas, which according to Mark slowed him down a bit.

So it can be done in one day, and can be done safely. It's not too late to get 
there,

RK

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Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

The lesson here is that there is no free lunch when it comes to energy 
production.  And coal burning generates carbon dioxide - limiting agent for 
plant growth in certain regions of the world - so it's not all bad;). 
Particulate matter on the other hand, maybe not the greatest.
RK

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On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:49 AM -0500, "Bill Stephens via Texascavers" 
 wrote:





While 3 centuries of coal production has caused an enormous burden on the US 
environment, it fueled the industrial revolution which provided us with the 
leisure time to pursue cave exploration and the technological capability to 
have the discussion across the breath of a continent. With that said. as far as 
"coal-fired plants no longer needed", according to the EIA 35% of total US 
energy consumption in 2015 was from coal, while all Renewables (excluding 
biomass) produced less than 7.5%. "A 2013 study in the Wildlife Society 
Bulletin estimated that wind turbines killed about 888,000 bats and 573,000 
birds (including 83,000 raptors) in 2012.Since then US wind energy has 
increased by 24% and is expected to triple by 2030. The US wind industry is 
permitted to kill 4200 Bald Eagles annually, or roughly 6% of the entire 
population of 72,000. I am unaware of any analysis that portends nearly this 
level of carnage from ANY other energy source.Not to defend coal, but just to 
observe the facts.

Conversion of more coal fired power plants to natural gas and modern, low 
waste, low temperature nuclear power plants are the only solution in the near 
to moderate term.
Bill Stephens  From: Terry Plemons via Texascavers 

 To: Cavers Texas 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] wind turbines and caves

When discussing the bird life caused by the wind turbines itshould be noted 
that the coal-fired plants no longer needed caused problems forbirds by 
clearing of forests, pollution of streams, and air pollution. I do notknow if a 
tradeoff of one power generation vs. another has been accuratelyassessed, if 
that is possible, but the comparison is relevant. T. Plemons

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:12 PM, David via Texascavers 
 wrote:

In reference to Bill's post, My hunch is that the coal plants in China would be 
running either way and that they create much needed jobs there.The delivery of 
the blades is a one time event, as they can be repaired in the field.Diesel 
trains and boats have efficient motors, as do trucks, while simultaneously 
delivering a wide range of products which creates jobs.They most likely just 
need to mount a scarecrow on top of the wind-turbine.I see no reason a cave 
tour company could not use a wind-turbine to charge batteries for headlamps or 
to power lights in the cave.I would like to see a giant turbine mounted 
horizontally at ground-level and let hundreds of unemployed homeless people 
push it.It is too bad all these people exercising in fitness centers can not 
convert that energy wasted into electricity.   If I win the MegaMillions 
jackpot, I am going to fix that.I have been eating pork-n-beans all week to try 
to save money.   It is too bad that I can not convert all this new methane gas 
to power something.David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

You can call it whatever you want - 'detractors', 'perpetrators' - or you can 
learn from it. It's about leadership and vision.
Congrats on getting Powell's Cave gated, I'm glad a beautiful cave got gated, I 
hope more Texas cavers can enjoy it.

RK

To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:40:24 -0500
Subject: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update
From: texascavers@texascavers.com





Well said, Jerry!
Ignore the detractors and keep up the good work!
 
===Carl Kunath


 

From: Jerry via Texascavers 
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:52 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update 
:
 


Our 
"poorly organized" effort got the gate constructed in a period of less than a 
month from first finding the vandalism, has 
reached its financial goal (thanks to all that contributed !), did it 
without needing to make formal overtures to the 
"54 SP500 companies that are 
headquartered in Texas", did so without creating a massive headache by making 
sure that there was a 501(C)3 organization receiving the funds for shuttling to 
a third party, and did so by using a poor-boy version of crowd-sourcing from 
within the caving community. No excuses for dinner 
tonight.
 
Jerry.






Virus-free. www.avast.com




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Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Leadership - It's about addressing the issues, not targeting the messengers,
Leadership - It's about getting things done even without global consensus, 
Leadership - It's about setting your organization to succeed - like setting up 
Ellenberger formation solid tax deductible donation options,
Leadership - It's about not insulting your potential donors or participants,

And I don't want to start my next email message with 'Excuses, it's what's for 
dinner tonight',

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:37:49 -0400 
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com 
>  
> Rafal, 
>  
> If it was so easy, I challenge you to step up and make it so. From the  
> experience I have had dealing with both organizations, well-meaning but  
> time and energy constrained cavers, and the odd troll here and there,  
> it's anything but easy to get folks to agree on anything, even more so  
> when money is involved. 
>  
> Yes, Diana, I could have appealed to either the TCMA or TSS to be the  
> funds collector for the Powell's Cave Project so that a handful of  
> folks could get a minuscule tax deduction if they wanted one. But I  
> felt it was a conflict of interest to ask the TSS to do so as I'm an  
> officer on the Board. That won't matter to some folks but it does to  
> me. The TCMA is a fine organization doing excellent work for Texas  
> caves and cavers but they take awhile to make things happen and this  
> gate needed to be done quickly. 
>  
> So, there you go - the usual simple solutions to the worlds problems  
> aren't actually all that simple. Please keep that in mind as you  
> instruct the world as to how it should be done. In the mean time, I  
> haven't seen you two actually donating anything but grief. Make  
> something happen or get off the soap box. 
>  
> Jerry. 
>  
> -Original Message- 
> From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers  
> To: texascavers  
> Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2016 5:09 pm 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
>  
> What did you assume that isn't true? 
>  
> Caves and karst in Texas are an incredible resource that should be  
> protected and set aside -  the case for which should be easily made  
> especially when one considers lack of green space as compared to  
> American East and West. If Texas cavers could reach around and outside  
> of its own community, get funding from private donors, one could not  
> only gate dozens of habitat sensitive caves but also set up a network  
> of karst preserves. For goodness sake, there are 54 SP500 companies  
> headquarters in Texas!  All that takes is ability to share your vision  
> with others, show them the resource you are trying to protect and  
> reasons why. And yes, sometimes take them above and below the ground,  
> get their hands dirty. 
>  
> And your concern is a nonexistent moral dilemma? 
>  
> RK 
>  
> > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:37:30 -0600 
> > To: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> > From: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> > 
> > Then why did you ask, for Pete's sake ? 
> > 
> > Jerry. 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone 
> > 
> > On Jun 23, 2016, at 4:23 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers  
> mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>  
> wrote: 
> > 
> >> No change in my statement. If someone is philanthropic in order to  
> gain access to the cave, that's a 
> >> wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
> >> someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve 
> >> an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
> >> the issue of the donor. 
> >> 
> >> RK 
> >> 
> >>  
> >>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:18:37 -0600 
> >>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> >>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> >>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> >>> 
> >>> When they ask ahead of actually donating, it's a tacit request.  
> That becomes my problem. 
> >>> 
> >>> Jerry. 
> >>> 
> >>> Sent from my iPhone 
> >>> 
> >>> On Jun 

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

To cut to the chase , the responses show a lack of vision and poor 
organization. If you need small business and public relations help, I'm sure 
it's available among the caving community on this email list. All you have to 
do is ask,

RK

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On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:52 PM -0500, "Diana Tomchick via Texascavers" 
 wrote:





The fact that Powell’s is private property is irrelevant. Money has been 
donated in the past to TCMA (and that money was tax deductible to the donor) to 
fund projects at Honey Creek, which is also private property.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Cave Tex  wrote:
>
> Because Powells is on private property?
>
>
> --Don
>
>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Diana Tomchick via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Why do we have these organizations in Texas if they can’t be used to 
>> leverage donations to protect these important resources?
>>
>> Diana
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers




UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

What did you assume that isn't true? 

Caves and karst in Texas are an incredible resource that should be protected 
and set aside -  the case for which should be easily made especially when one 
considers lack of green space as compared to American East and West. If Texas 
cavers could reach around and outside of its own community, get funding from 
private donors, one could not only gate dozens of habitat sensitive caves but 
also set up a network of karst preserves. For goodness sake, there are 54 SP500 
companies headquarters in Texas!  All that takes is ability to share your 
vision with others, show them the resource you are trying to protect and 
reasons why. And yes, sometimes take them above and below the ground, get their 
hands dirty. 

And your concern is a nonexistent moral dilemma? 

RK

> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:37:30 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Then why did you ask, for Pete's sake ?
> 
> Jerry.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 4:23 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> > No change in my statement. If someone is philanthropic in order to gain 
> > access to the cave, that's a
> > wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
> > someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve
> > an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
> > the issue of the donor.
> > 
> > RK
> > 
> > 
> >> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:18:37 -0600
> >> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> >> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >> 
> >> When they ask ahead of actually donating, it's a tacit request. That 
> >> becomes my problem.
> >> 
> >> Jerry.
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> On Jun 23, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >>> If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access to the cave, that's a 
> >>> wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
> >>> someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve 
> >>> an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
> >>> the issue of the donor.
> >>> 
> >>> RK
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:05:24 -0600
> >>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> >>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> Rafal,
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'm not comfortable with donations for the greater good becoming 
> >>>> entitlements for special privileges. It would be unfortunate if that 
> >>>> becomes the principal reason for being philanthropic.
> >>>> 
> >>>> As for resurveying Powell's Cave, there have been two survey projects of 
> >>>> the cave since the early 1960s, and one fairly decent map made of the 
> >>>> cave. Unfortunately, past efforts used whoever showed up at trips as 
> >>>> survey teams, with little to no quality control of survey standards. The 
> >>>> result was a mish-mash of excellent to awful surveys that was nearly 
> >>>> impossible to compile into a good map. Any future effort will require a 
> >>>> different strategy that may be too difficult to complete given the lack 
> >>>> of project leaders and cartographers we have today.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Jerry.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect 
> >>>>> survey project and map?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> RK
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 +
> >>>>>> To: texascavers@texascave

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

No change in my statement. If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access 
to the cave, that's a
 wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve
 an incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not 
the issue of the donor.

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:18:37 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> When they ask ahead of actually donating, it's a tacit request. That becomes 
> my problem.
>
> Jerry.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
>
>> If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access to the cave, that's a 
>> wrong reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If 
>> someone is taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve an 
>> incredible resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not the 
>> issue of the donor.
>>
>> RK
>>
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:05:24 -0600
>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>
>>> Rafal,
>>>
>>> I'm not comfortable with donations for the greater good becoming 
>>> entitlements for special privileges. It would be unfortunate if that 
>>> becomes the principal reason for being philanthropic.
>>>
>>> As for resurveying Powell's Cave, there have been two survey projects of 
>>> the cave since the early 1960s, and one fairly decent map made of the cave. 
>>> Unfortunately, past efforts used whoever showed up at trips as survey 
>>> teams, with little to no quality control of survey standards. The result 
>>> was a mish-mash of excellent to awful surveys that was nearly impossible to 
>>> compile into a good map. Any future effort will require a different 
>>> strategy that may be too difficult to complete given the lack of project 
>>> leaders and cartographers we have today.
>>>
>>> Jerry.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?
>>>>
>>>> When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect survey 
>>>> project and map?
>>>>
>>>> RK
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 +
>>>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do we send in a contribution? Is there somewhere online I can donate?
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Dessie Pierce, MA
>>>>> Licensed Professional Counselor
>>>>> Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor
>>>>> Certified Clinical Trauma Professional
>>>>> 11999 Katy Freeway
>>>>> Suite 509
>>>>> Houston, TX 77079
>>>>> phone: 832-735-0065
>>>>> cell: 832-341-8880
>>>>> des...@dessiep.com<mailto:des...@dessiep.com>
>>>>> dessiep.com
>>>>> It is important to be aware that e-mail communication can be relatively
>>>>> easily accessed by unauthorized people and therefore can compromise the
>>>>> privacy and confidentiality of such communication. Please notify me
>>>>> (Dessie Pierce) if you decide to avoid or limit in anyway the use of
>>>>> email. Please do not use email for emergencies. Any advice given
>>>>> without a contract for professional services does not constitute
>>>>> counseling in any manner and should not be relied upon. Information
>>>>> contained within and accompanying this message is confidential,
>>>>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If
>>>>> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
>>>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this
>>>>> message is strictly prohibited. 

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

If someone is philanthropic in order to gain access to the cave, that's a wrong 
reason for generosity - but that's his/her issue, not yours. If someone is 
taken through the cave as a thank you for helping to preserve an incredible 
resource, that's your way of expressing generosity - not the issue of the 
donor. 

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:05:24 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> Rafal,
>
> I'm not comfortable with donations for the greater good becoming entitlements 
> for special privileges. It would be unfortunate if that becomes the principal 
> reason for being philanthropic.
>
> As for resurveying Powell's Cave, there have been two survey projects of the 
> cave since the early 1960s, and one fairly decent map made of the cave. 
> Unfortunately, past efforts used whoever showed up at trips as survey teams, 
> with little to no quality control of survey standards. The result was a 
> mish-mash of excellent to awful surveys that was nearly impossible to compile 
> into a good map. Any future effort will require a different strategy that may 
> be too difficult to complete given the lack of project leaders and 
> cartographers we have today.
>
> Jerry.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
>
>> Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?
>>
>> When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect survey 
>> project and map?
>>
>> RK
>>
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 +
>>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :
>>> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
>>>
>>>
>>> How do we send in a contribution? Is there somewhere online I can donate?
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Dessie Pierce, MA
>>> Licensed Professional Counselor
>>> Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor
>>> Certified Clinical Trauma Professional
>>> 11999 Katy Freeway
>>> Suite 509
>>> Houston, TX 77079
>>> phone: 832-735-0065
>>> cell: 832-341-8880
>>> des...@dessiep.com<mailto:des...@dessiep.com>
>>> dessiep.com
>>> It is important to be aware that e-mail communication can be relatively
>>> easily accessed by unauthorized people and therefore can compromise the
>>> privacy and confidentiality of such communication. Please notify me
>>> (Dessie Pierce) if you decide to avoid or limit in anyway the use of
>>> email. Please do not use email for emergencies. Any advice given
>>> without a contract for professional services does not constitute
>>> counseling in any manner and should not be relied upon. Information
>>> contained within and accompanying this message is confidential,
>>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If
>>> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this
>>> message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
>>> error, please immediately notify me by telephone at 832-735-0065 or
>>> return the email and purge all copies of this message from your system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-06-22 20:32, Jerry via Texascavers wrote:
>>>
>>> Powell's Cave Gate Project update
>>>
>>> Jim Kennedy and company have finished the gate on Powell's Cave, and
>>> now it's time to pay for it. As you can see from the accompanying
>>> graph, we've received $1200 of the approximately $2500 that has been
>>> pledged thus far. Many thanks to all that have sent in their donations
>>> or pledged to help! - If you haven't sent in your pledged donation,
>>> please do so at your earliest convenience so we can pay the bills.
>>>
>>> The graph also shows that we are about $800 shy of our goal. If you are
>>> thinking of helping out on the gate project, please do so at this time.
>>> Help support our continuing efforts to protect both the cave and its
>>> bats, and to demonstrate our commitment to the landowner.
>>>
>>> Jerry Atkinson
>>> Powell's Cave Landowner Liaison
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | 

Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Further along those lines, do donors get a special thank you trip:)?

When does the longest mostly dry cave in Texas get a more perfect survey 
project and map?

RK


> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:55:00 + 
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update : 
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com 
>  
>  
> How do we send in a contribution? Is there somewhere online I can donate? 
>  
> --- 
> Dessie Pierce, MA 
> Licensed Professional Counselor 
> Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor 
> Certified Clinical Trauma Professional 
> 11999 Katy Freeway 
> Suite 509 
> Houston, TX 77079 
> phone: 832-735-0065 
> cell: 832-341-8880 
> des...@dessiep.com 
> dessiep.com 
> It is important to be aware that e-mail communication can be relatively  
> easily accessed by unauthorized people and therefore can compromise the  
> privacy and confidentiality of such communication.  Please notify me  
> (Dessie Pierce) if you decide to avoid or limit in anyway the use of  
> email.  Please do not use email for emergencies.  Any advice given  
> without a contract for professional services does not constitute  
> counseling in any manner and should not be relied upon.  Information  
> contained within and accompanying this message is confidential,  
> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If  
> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are  
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this  
> message is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message in  
> error, please immediately notify me by telephone at 832-735-0065 or  
> return the email and purge all copies of this message from your system. 
>  
>  
>  
> On 2016-06-22 20:32, Jerry via Texascavers wrote: 
>  
> Powell's Cave Gate Project update 
>  
> Jim Kennedy and company have finished the gate on Powell's Cave, and  
> now it's time to pay for it. As you can see from the accompanying  
> graph, we've received $1200 of the approximately $2500 that has been  
> pledged thus far. Many thanks to all that have sent in their donations  
> or pledged to help! - If you haven't sent in your pledged donation,  
> please do so at your earliest convenience so we can pay the bills. 
>  
> The graph also shows that we are about $800 shy of our goal. If you are  
> thinking of helping out on the gate project, please do so at this time.  
> Help support our continuing efforts to protect both the cave and its  
> bats, and to demonstrate our commitment to the landowner. 
>  
> Jerry Atkinson 
> Powell's Cave Landowner Liaison 
>  
>  
>  
> ___ 
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com |  
> Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>  
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers 
>  
> ___ Texascavers mailing  
> list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/  
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers 
  
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Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Malaria is a parasite not a virus, different bird.

We actually do pretty good job developing resistence to chickenpox, hence 
vaccination program wasn't deemed viable until 1990s. And vaccines aren't 
harmless - no autism significance as of now - but small but real possibility of 
demyelinating processes. Vaccine is completely effective in 40 percent of kids. 
Childhood varicella vaccinations are also likely responsible for adult shingles 
epidemic now - vaccine just isn't as good at long term protection. No need to 
worry - there are medication and vaccine for shingles now!! And more research 
is always needed;).

No such thing as no risk in investment - or medicine.

RK

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 01:01:59 +
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Develop resistance in the same way that we’ve done with malaria and 
> chickenpox?
> 
> Thanks goodness for vaccines and anti-malarial drugs…which are still being 
> developed, due to problems with resistance.
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
> > On May 24, 2016, at 7:37 PM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
> > 
> > Your medical industrial complex is wanting you to write them a 1.9 billion 
> > dollar check for initial funding for Zika virus research and prevention. Or 
> > about 40 dollars for each of those households paying taxes. Few billion 
> > will follow every year from now on until story is forgotten by public 10 
> > years from now. What's a few billions among friends? 
> > 
> > But this will likely not change anything. Zika will spread across southern 
> > us until it becomes ubiquitous and is population will gain resistence. Then 
> > likely 95% of complications will disappear. This will become just like any 
> > of hundreds of minimally pathologic viruses, with more to follow. Next year 
> > look out for Kiki virus - one that elongates fetal noses and prompts 
> > another emergent spending bill;).
> > 
> > Cytomegalovirus and varicella invade brains of fetuses, Zika is nothing 
> > special. Dozens of other viruses grow in neuronal cultures - nothing 
> > special, except CV padding material.
> > 
> > Messenger doesn't change the message. And it was signed;).
> > 
> > RK
> > 
> > > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 22:27:10 +
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > 
> > > Just because you’ve already procreated doesn’t mean everyone else has, 
> > > Rafal Kedzierski.
> > > 
> > > It’s ironic that you should be against more research, given your 
> > > background.
> > > 
> > > Diana
> > > 
> > > **
> > > Diana R. Tomchick
> > > Professor
> > > Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> > > University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> > > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> > > Rm. ND10.214A
> > > Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> > > diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> > > (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> > > (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> > > 
> > > > On May 24, 2016, at 5:22 PM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, living is scary and it ends in death, funny how that goes.
> > > > 
> > > > Every new scary story just needs 'mo money' for 'mo research'. For that 
> > > > we just need 'mo taxes'.
> > > > 
> > > > Look, when every potential mother aquites immunity, more than likely 
> > > > maternal fetal infections will cease. Sometimes you don't need no more 
> > > > 'mo'. 
> > > > 
> > > > That's coming from a physician and a scientist.
> > > > 
> > > > RK
> > > > 
> > > > > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > > > Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:43:41 +
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > > > From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry 
> > > > > > about and see how far that argume

Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Your medical industrial complex is wanting you to write them a 1.9 billion 
dollar check for initial funding for Zika virus research and prevention. Or 
about 40 dollars for each of those households paying taxes. Few billion will 
follow every year from now on until story is forgotten by public 10 years from 
now. What's a few billions among friends? 

But this will likely not change anything. Zika will spread across southern us 
until it becomes ubiquitous and is population will gain resistence. Then likely 
95% of complications will disappear. This will become just like any of hundreds 
of minimally pathologic viruses, with more to follow. Next year look out for 
Kiki virus - one that elongates fetal noses and prompts another emergent 
spending bill;).

Cytomegalovirus and varicella invade brains of fetuses, Zika is nothing 
special. Dozens of other viruses grow in neuronal cultures - nothing special, 
except CV padding material.

Messenger doesn't change the message. And it was signed;).

RK

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 22:27:10 +
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> Just because you’ve already procreated doesn’t mean everyone else has, Rafal 
> Kedzierski.
> 
> It’s ironic that you should be against more research, given your background.
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
> > On May 24, 2016, at 5:22 PM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
> > 
> > Yes, living is scary and it ends in death, funny how that goes.
> > 
> > Every new scary story just needs 'mo money' for 'mo research'. For that we 
> > just need 'mo taxes'.
> > 
> > Look, when every potential mother aquites immunity, more than likely 
> > maternal fetal infections will cease. Sometimes you don't need no more 
> > 'mo'. 
> > 
> > That's coming from a physician and a scientist.
> > 
> > RK
> > 
> > > To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:43:41 +
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > 
> > > > Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry 
> > > > about and see how far that argument gets you.
> > > 
> > > Perhaps we should tell people in Zika infected countries to not get 
> > > pregnant?
> > > 
> > > (Dons fireproof suit) ;-)
> > > 
> > > Stefan Creaser
> > > Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
> > > 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
> > > Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
> > > Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf 
> > > Of Diana Tomchick via Texascavers
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 4:39 PM
> > > To: Cave Tex
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> > > 
> > > > Microcephaly is seen in population in general, only about 1 in 100 
> > > > mothers infected with Zika are affected. For comparison, about 40k 
> > > > people die in traffic accidents a year in brazil, 40K in US, 200K in 
> > > > India. Malaria kills 1 million people a year.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, but not every virus causes problems with neural development in 
> > > embryonic cell cultures.
> > > 
> > > "Zika Virus Infects Human Cortical Neural Progenitors and Attenuates 
> > > Their Growth”
> > > Tang, Hengli et al.
> > > Cell Stem Cell , Volume 18 , Issue 5 , 587 - 590
> > > 
> > > For a freely available description of this research,
> > > 
> > > http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/zika-virus-kills-developing-brain-cells
> > > 
> > > The very last sentence of this description sums up the problem rather 
> > > well:
> > > 
> > > "Researchers also still need to figure out how the virus crosses the 
> > > placenta and infects the fetus directly, something most viruses can’t do.”
> > > 
> > > If the population of Brazil is 205 million, and roughly half the 
> > > population is female (~100 million), and of that on

Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Yes, living is scary and it ends in death, funny how that goes.

Every new scary story just needs 'mo money' for 'mo research'. For that we just 
need 'mo taxes'.

Look, when every potential mother aquites immunity, more than likely maternal 
fetal infections will cease. Sometimes you don't need no more 'mo'. 

That's coming from a physician and a scientist.

RK

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:43:41 +
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> > Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry about 
> > and see how far that argument gets you.
> 
> Perhaps we should tell people in Zika infected countries to not get pregnant?
> 
> (Dons fireproof suit) ;-)
> 
> Stefan Creaser
> Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
> 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
> Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
> Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Diana Tomchick via Texascavers
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 4:39 PM
> To: Cave Tex
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Zika
> 
> > Microcephaly is seen in population in general, only about 1 in 100 mothers 
> > infected with Zika are affected. For comparison, about 40k people die in 
> > traffic accidents a year in brazil, 40K in US, 200K in India. Malaria kills 
> > 1 million people a year.
> 
> 
> Yes, but not every virus causes problems with neural development in embryonic 
> cell cultures.
> 
> "Zika Virus Infects Human Cortical Neural Progenitors and Attenuates Their 
> Growth”
> Tang, Hengli et al.
> Cell Stem Cell , Volume 18 , Issue 5 , 587 - 590
> 
> For a freely available description of this research,
> 
> http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/zika-virus-kills-developing-brain-cells
> 
> The very last sentence of this description sums up the problem rather well:
> 
> "Researchers also still need to figure out how the virus crosses the placenta 
> and infects the fetus directly, something most viruses can’t do.”
> 
> If the population of Brazil is 205 million, and roughly half the population 
> is female (~100 million), and of that only 50% is of childbearing age (50 
> million) and only 5% of that number plans to have a child this year (2.5 
> million), and 1% of that number has children born with microcephaly, that 
> would be 25,000 children, if all the mothers were infected with Zika virus.
> 
> Let that sink in: 25,000 children born with microcephaly.
> 
> So let’s assume instead that only 25% of the potential mothers are infected 
> with Zika virus and their babies have microcephaly. That would still mean 
> 6,250 children born with microcephaly.
> 
> 6,250 children born with so little neural tissue that they will never live 
> independently, and probably will not live very long lives.
> 
> According to the CDC 
> (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/microcephaly.html),
> 
> "Microcephaly is not a common condition. State birth defects tracking systems 
> have estimated that microcephaly ranges from 2 babies per 10,000 live births 
> to about 12 babies per 10,000 live births in the Unites States.”
> 
> That would be 0.02 - 0.12 % of live births in the U.S., a far smaller number 
> than 1%.
> 
> "Zika virus, named after a forest in Uganda where it was first isolated 
> decades ago, usually causes only mild symptoms in people, including fever and 
> rash. But after the virus started spreading across northeastern Brazil last 
> year, doctors there noticed a striking increase in the number of babies born 
> with microcephaly.”
> 
> This is exactly what epidemiologists are supposed to do, alert the medical 
> community to potential new health risks. Not all new viruses and pathogens 
> are as terrifyingly dangerous as Ebola, nor as relatively ho-hum as Lone Star 
> fever. One has a high risk of death and the other can be easily treated with 
> antibiotics.
> 
> Try telling a potential parent that Zika is something not to worry about and 
> see how far that argument gets you.
> 
> Diana
> 
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
> > On May 24, 2016, at 3:45 PM, texas cavers tc  
> > wrote:
> >
> > Just to provide a different perspective, only 1 in 5 even know have Zika 
> > related illness when they are exposed.  It's not 'spiraling out of control' 
> > - it's new to North America, yes. It's likely one of many illnesses that go 
> > through populations and become part of the infectious tapestry that we all 
> > live in. Is anyone reading alarmist articles about Heartland virus or Lone 
> > Star fever?
> >
> > Guillan-Barre syndrome is

Re: [Texascavers] Zika

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

Just to provide a different perspective, only 1 in 5 even know have Zika 
related illness when they are exposed.  It's not 'spiraling out of control' - 
it's new to North America, yes. It's likely one of many illnesses that go 
through populations and become part of the infectious tapestry that we all live 
in. Is anyone reading alarmist articles about Heartland virus or Lone Star 
fever?

Guillan-Barre syndrome is secondary to number of viruses, it's nothing specific 
to Zika. 

Microcephaly is seen in population in general, only about 1 in 100 mothers 
infected with Zika are affected. For comparison, about 40k people die in 
traffic accidents a year in brazil, 40K in US, 200K in India. Malaria kills 1 
million people a year. 

RK

See http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/305163.php
Symptoms of Zika virus


Signs and symptoms of Zika virus are vague and can last for up to a 
week. Diagnosis of the virus is typically confirmed with a blood test.1



Symptoms of Zika virus include:1,2


FeverRashJoint painConjunctivitis (red eyes)Muscle painHeadachePain behind the 
eyesVomiting.


According to the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO), only 1 in 4 people 
infected with Zika virus develop symptoms.5 In contrast, the CDC state the 
figure is 1 in 5.




In the past, there have also been reports of patients developing Guillain-Barré 
syndrome following a Zika virus infection. Guillain-Barré syndrome is a rare 
but serious autoimmune disorder that affects the central nervous system.6




Infection with the Zika virus is rarely severe enough to warrant 
hospitalization, and it is rarer still for an individual to die as a 
result.6


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Re: [Texascavers] Angel Graña Gonzalez

[Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers]

And hopefully he is a better man than Che Guevera or Fidel Castro - I wouldn't 
call either examplary human beings - rather interesting curiosities on the 
level of Augusto Pinochet.

Rafal Kedzierski


> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 02:36:12 + 
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
> CC: s...@caver.net; tag-...@hiddenworld.net 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Angel Graña Gonzalez 
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com 
>  
>  
> Thanks, John. 
>  
>  
>  
> You are correct. Angel has MANY stories!  I did not want to spoil the  
> surprise --- 
>  
>  
>  
> The society (NSS) awarded Antonio Núñez Jiménez an Honorary Membership  
> in the NSS in August 1993. Not only was he the founder of the Sociedad  
> Espeleológica de Cuba (SEC) (in 1940, two years before the NSS was  
> founded), Antonio Núñez did indeed play a very significant role in the  
> Revolution and was repeatedly honored by Fidel. Antonio Núñez raised  
> the first peasant militia and used the caves in the Viñales Valley to  
> defeat Batista's forces. Antonio Núñez was also Che Guevera's  
> right-hand-man. For that and other reasons the US refused to grant  
> Antonio Núñez a visa to travel to the USA to receive his award from the  
> NSS. 
>  
>  
>  
> Antonio Núñez Jiménez was an academic and accomplished,internationally  
> recognized scientist for all seasons: a Geographer, Geologist,  
> Anthropologist, Botanist, Paleontologist, and president of the Cuban  
> Academy of Sciences. 
>  
>  
>  
> It was reported that Fidel cried like a baby at his funeral. 
>  
>  
>  
> Angel Graña Gonzalez was a friend, caving companion, and secretary to  
> Antonio Núñez Jiménez until he died in September 13, 1998 
>  
>  
>  
> Angel has, indeed, many stories. 
>  
>  
>  
> DirtDoc 
>  
>  
>  
> From: "John Greer via Texascavers" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 6:09:54 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Attention: Spanish Speakers attending the  
> NSS Convention in Missouri next week 
>  
> I believe Angel was with Fidel Castro and his brother-in-law the famous  
> geographer (and really great guy) Antonio Núñez during the revolution  
> and was mostly in charge (with Antonio) of cave exploration and  
> mapping. He is full of more stories than you will have time to listen  
> to. Get him to talk! 
>  
> For those of you who have been to the cave house in La Havana, there is  
> a big photo on the wall of the whole group in a cave, with Castro  
> (especially) all decked out in his normal army field gear, and all  
> slopping through the mud. I believe Antonio published this photo in  
> some of his books, so it’s available. 
>  
> John Greer 
> Casper 
>  
>  
> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:43 PM, via Texascavers  
> mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>  
> wrote: 
>  
> Attention: Spanish Speakers attending the NSS Convention in Missouri  
> next week 
>  
> ___ Texascavers mailing  
> list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/  
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers 
  
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Re: [Texascavers] Frank Nicholson

[rafal kedzierski via Texascavers]

I would venture that he was likely a Ph.D., they have greater ability to 
exaggerate:) than overworked MDs...
Rafal Kedzierski

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:14:43 +
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Frank Nicholson
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> "Dr." Frank E. Nicholson? An M.D., perhaps?
> 
> Might explain the tendency to exaggerate.
> 
> Diana
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> Department of Biophysics
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
> Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> 214-645-6383 (phone)
> 214-645-6353 (fax)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 20, 2015, at 12:32 AM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers wrote:
> 
> > Nicholson was quite an interesting fellow but he did his best speleology 
> > with a typewriter.
> >
> > He is cited a number of times in 50 Years of Texas Caving ( AKA: The 
> > Encyclopedia of Texas Caving):
> >
> > Pg 21, 294:  Cascade Caverns and Longhorn Cave
> > Pg 35, 308:  There is a brief mention of a grandiose expedition to Cueva de 
> > El Abra with Bob Hudson and Jimmy Walker
> > Pg 424:  A note of Nicholson visiting Devil’s Sinkhole
> >
> > I could have included quite a lot more about Nicholson but the space was 
> > better reserved for more factual, perhaps more entertaining, accounts.  One 
> > of the best stories involves his plan to explore a lofty dome in Carlsbad 
> > Cavern with the use of a balloon.  Explorers would rise to the desired 
> > level in a basket and step out into unknown passages.  This didn’t happen 
> > although it’s a pity as we might have learned how he planned to create the 
> > necessary clearance above the top of the balloon in order to reach the 
> > upper area of the dome and also how he planned to deal with those sharp, 
> > pointy stalactites.
> >
> > Nicholson was nothing if not consistent.  Every account of his exploits 
> > that he authored is wildly exaggerated.  In addition to the Cascade Caverns 
> > story related below, check out this account of the Devil’s Sinkhole:
> >
> > SEPT. 2, 1934
> > Kerrville – Dr. Frank E. Nicholson, explorer of Carlsbad Cavern in New 
> > Mexico, has announced that the Devil’s Sinkhole, 65 miles from here, is 
> > larger than the famous New Mexico cave. Dr. Nicholson recently visited the 
> > Clarence Whitworth ranch, site of the sinkhole, and conducted a series of 
> > explorations. He found that the cave’s mouth is about 90 feet in diameter 
> > and looks down upon a 600-foot “mountain peak” which rises to within 271 
> > feet of the surface of the ground. The subterranean mountain is a mile in 
> > circumference at the base. Dr. Nicholson explored several miles of passages 
> > with striking and colorful formations and saw many other corridors leading 
> > away for unknown distances. The cave is one of the country’s greatest 
> > natural wonders, Dr. Nicholson said.
> >
> > ===Carl Kunath
> > carl.kun...@suddenlink.net
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers
> > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 3:31 PM
> > To: Cavers Texas
> > Subject: [Texascavers] unique Texas cave
> >
> > Published, apparently seriously, in the "News-Letter of the Exploration & 
> > Location Committee" of the NSS, #1, Jan. 1943:
> >
> > A condensation of information on the exploration of a limestone cave near 
> > Boerne, Texas, about 1932 by a party headed by Dr. Frank E. Nicholson, 
> > indicates that it is perhaps the most unusual phenomenon in our science. 
> > The information is from an old reference, and anyone having further 
> > information on this cave please contact this committee. 500 feet within the 
> > cave is a subterranean lake overhung by stalactites which reach to the 
> > surface of the water, requiring swimming under water for 200 feet. 
> > Occasional "pockets" permit breathing. This expedition penetrated beyond 
> > the lake to a great vaulted tunnel, which contained a "bottomless pit," 
> > subterranean spring, and stream. Progress was possible to a point one mile 
> > from the entrance and 600 feet below the surface. The most unusual feature 
> > of the cave is that in it were found white colored blind crayfish, 
> > pheletrodroid salamanders, and blind, white translucent frogs. Most 
> > unbelievable is the report 

Re: [Texascavers] accident report needs translator

[rafal kedzierski via Texascavers]

I could do the translation if you had the original documents in Polish:). 
French, not so much.

Rafal Kedzierski 
Polish ex-Texas caver now in TN

> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 19:31:36 -0500
> Subject: [Texascavers] accident report needs translator
> From: texascavers@texascavers.com
> 
> I have a report on the accident to two Polish cavers in Sótano de San  
> Agustín in 1980 (see also Mike Boon's report in latest AMCS Activities  
> Newsletter) by Etienne Degrave, the Belgian doctor who attended the  
> patients and is probably responsible for the survival of the most  
> seriously injured one. This is obviously a historically important  
> document, but it is in French. Anybody interested in translating it  
> into English with the goal of publishing it in an Association for  
> Mexican Cave Studies magazine?
> 
> It looks like it's roughly six thousand words, so not a task for a  
> student who needs frequent recourse to a French/English dictionary.  
> The original was printed with a cheap dot-matrix printer, and the copy  
> I have is not wonderful, but I think everything would be legible to  
> someone knowledgeable enough in French to fill in an occasional  
> missing letter. I can scan it for you. No great rush, of course.
> 
> I'd like to cast a wide net, so feel free to forward this to other  
> relevant lists.
> 
> --Bill Mixon, AMCS editor
> 
> I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
> 
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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[Texascavers] RE: October CBSP Project Trip Report

[rafal kedzierski]

I admit Centennial Cave was my first map and needed another attempt at a map. 
It's a nice short drop into sizeable series of rooms in Lively Pasture, not a 
bad vertical practice site for all.

For those itching to survey in Colorado Bend State Park, Gorman Creek Crevice 
in Lively Pasture and Three Skylight Cave across the river have good going 
leads.

And Sumps Below Cave is the correct name, it roughly overlies surveyed and 
sumped southern end of Gorman Cave. If one could just get into those tight 
fissures.

Rafal Kedzierski

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 08:56:54 -0500
From: trog...@cavechat.org
To: kapkanga...@gmail.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: October CBSP Project Trip Report

Edit:
SAB 245 is actually named "Sump's Below", rather than "Slumps Below". just fyi 
;)


On 16 October 2013 07:52, Jim Kennedy  wrote:

Rafal admitted that it was the first map he ever drafted and that he wasn't

very happy with it.  It doesn't really look like the cave, hence the need

for a resurvey.



Jim



-Original Message-

From: Terry Holsinger [mailto:tr...@sprynet.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 2:04 AM

To: texascavers@texascavers.com

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: October CBSP Project Trip Report



SAB 239 Centennial Cave was surveyed, and drafted in May and June 1992, by

Mike Anderson, Carolyn Biegert, Pat Geery, Rafal and Wojcoech Kedzierski and

the draft was by Rafal Kedzierski.

Map was included in trip reports filed with TPWD at the time and with the

TSS later.



Terry H.







-

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For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com





-- 
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
trog...@cavechat.org

  

RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas

[rafal kedzierski]

>From 'An Estimate of the Burden of Chagas Disease in the United States', 
>Clinicial Infectious Diseases, 2009, Volume 49, Issue 5.
 
'The United States cannot be classified as an area of nonendemicity for Chagas 
disease in the same sense as Europe or Asia. The southern states have enzootic 
T. cruzi transmission that involves at least 11 triatomine species and hosts 
such as raccoons, opossums, and domestic dogs. Nevertheless, the vast majority 
of T. cruzi -infected individuals are immigrants from areas of endemicity in 
Latin America. Only 7 autochthonous vector-borne cases of infection (4 in Texas 
and 1 each in California, Tennessee, and Louisiana) have been reported in the 
United States since 1955 (reference from 2007). The rarity of vector-borne 
transmission in the United States, compared with Latin America, is thought to 
be the result of better housing conditions and lower efficiency of North 
American vectors.
 
Estimation of the number of T. cruzi -infected individuals in the United States 
is challenging, because the underlying data are sparse. Previous calculations 
have relied on a patchwork of T. cruzi prevalence estimates, derived from blood 
donor screening data and surveys from Latin America applied to the immigrant 
population. The highest early estimate (占쏙옙370,000 infected US residents in 
1992) used a Latin America-wide prevalence rather than country-specific 
estimates and was therefore likely to be a substantial overestimation. 
Published US disease burden figures range from 50,000 to 1 million, but the 
lowest estimate is now 15 years old, and the highest estimate was based on an 
extrapolation of the highest early estimate thereby compounding the likely 
overestimation. '
 
I think 7 autochthonous cases in US is probably on the low side, since 
clinicians are not looking for Chagas disease. Still, in the realm of reality, 
few thousand Texans die on the road driving - buckle up and drive safely. And 
cave safely.
 
Rafal Kedzierski
DFW Grotto
 



List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:21:26 -0800
From: aim...@yahoo.com
To: l...@alumni.sfu.ca
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas



in your eye! 





From: Lyndon Tiu 
To: Aimee Beveridge  
Cc: texas cavers tc  
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas


Shit!




On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Aimee Beveridge  wrote:




I am sure this was pointed out earlier but being bitten isn't the problem.  Its 
oral or open wound contact with the infected feces.
 
 





From: rafal kedzierski 
To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; texas cavers tc  
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas





Just throwing gas on the fire of complexity of life, I just want to point out 
that Trypanosoma cruzi or causitive factor in Chagas disease is not only 
trypanosome in the environment. Most of them are not directly harmful to H. 
sapiens. Therefore, before anyone jumps to any conclusion, how specific is the 
PCR used by Baylor College of Medicine for Trypanosoma cruzi? Where PCR primers 
used for detection tested against other related protozoa? Have the primers 
withstood the test of clinical practice?

Rafal Kedzierski
DFW caver
 




From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:18:40 -0600
Subject: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas



Folks,
 
Back in June, I collected four kissing bugs from the Deep and Punkin preserve 
in Edwards County, Texas.  This was in support of some research being conducted 
by the National School of Tropical Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine.  Two 
of the bugs were captured in the cabin and two were captured around the porch 
areas.  Here is the email recently sent to me by Kristy Orsburn Murray a 
researcher at Baylor.
 
We finally were able to develop and establish the PCR for testing the insects 
for Chagas.  We ran the PCRs yesterday.  I wanted to let you know that 3 of the 
4 kissing bugs were positive, including the blood fed triatomine.  It was still 
alive when we received it, and it had defecated in the Ziploc baggie. We took 
the feces separate from the insect and also ran PCR, and the feces was 
positive.  This was the insect that said it was found under a rug in one of the 
cabins.  We are running a blood meal analysis on it to see if we can identify 
the source of the blood meal.  If human, do you know who was in that cabin at 
the time of the collection?  Perhaps we should test those of you who might be 
exposed to these insects.  With such a high percentage positive, the risk for 
transmission of Chagas could be high.  
Let me know if you have any questions.  We are happy to help.
Best

RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas

[rafal kedzierski]

>From 'An Estimate of the Burden of Chagas Disease in the United States', 
>Clinicial Infectious Diseases, 2009, Volume 49, Issue 5.
 
'The United States cannot be classified as an area of nonendemicity for Chagas 
disease in the same sense as Europe or Asia. The southern states have enzootic 
T. cruzi transmission that involves at least 11 triatomine species and hosts 
such as raccoons, opossums, and domestic dogs. Nevertheless, the vast majority 
of T. cruzi -infected individuals are immigrants from areas of endemicity in 
Latin America. Only 7 autochthonous vector-borne cases of infection (4 in Texas 
and 1 each in California, Tennessee, and Louisiana) have been reported in the 
United States since 1955 (reference from 2007). The rarity of vector-borne 
transmission in the United States, compared with Latin America, is thought to 
be the result of better housing conditions and lower efficiency of North 
American vectors.
 
Estimation of the number of T. cruzi -infected individuals in the United States 
is challenging, because the underlying data are sparse. Previous calculations 
have relied on a patchwork of T. cruzi prevalence estimates, derived from blood 
donor screening data and surveys from Latin America applied to the immigrant 
population. The highest early estimate (占쏙옙370,000 infected US residents in 
1992) used a Latin America-wide prevalence rather than country-specific 
estimates and was therefore likely to be a substantial overestimation. 
Published US disease burden figures range from 50,000 to 1 million, but the 
lowest estimate is now 15 years old, and the highest estimate was based on an 
extrapolation of the highest early estimate thereby compounding the likely 
overestimation. '
 
I think 7 autochthonous cases in US is probably on the low side, since 
clinicians are not looking for Chagas disease. Still, in the realm of reality, 
few thousand Texans die on the road driving - buckle up and drive safely. And 
cave safely.
 
Rafal Kedzierski
DFW Grotto
 



Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:21:26 -0800
From: aim...@yahoo.com
To: l...@alumni.sfu.ca
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas



in your eye! 





From: Lyndon Tiu 
To: Aimee Beveridge  
Cc: texas cavers tc  
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas


Shit!




On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Aimee Beveridge  wrote:




I am sure this was pointed out earlier but being bitten isn't the problem.  Its 
oral or open wound contact with the infected feces.
 
 





From: rafal kedzierski 
To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; texas cavers tc  
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas





Just throwing gas on the fire of complexity of life, I just want to point out 
that Trypanosoma cruzi or causitive factor in Chagas disease is not only 
trypanosome in the environment. Most of them are not directly harmful to H. 
sapiens. Therefore, before anyone jumps to any conclusion, how specific is the 
PCR used by Baylor College of Medicine for Trypanosoma cruzi? Where PCR primers 
used for detection tested against other related protozoa? Have the primers 
withstood the test of clinical practice?

Rafal Kedzierski
DFW caver
 




From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:18:40 -0600
Subject: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas



Folks,
 
Back in June, I collected four kissing bugs from the Deep and Punkin preserve 
in Edwards County, Texas.  This was in support of some research being conducted 
by the National School of Tropical Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine.  Two 
of the bugs were captured in the cabin and two were captured around the porch 
areas.  Here is the email recently sent to me by Kristy Orsburn Murray a 
researcher at Baylor.
 
We finally were able to develop and establish the PCR for testing the insects 
for Chagas.  We ran the PCRs yesterday.  I wanted to let you know that 3 of the 
4 kissing bugs were positive, including the blood fed triatomine.  It was still 
alive when we received it, and it had defecated in the Ziploc baggie. We took 
the feces separate from the insect and also ran PCR, and the feces was 
positive.  This was the insect that said it was found under a rug in one of the 
cabins.  We are running a blood meal analysis on it to see if we can identify 
the source of the blood meal.  If human, do you know who was in that cabin at 
the time of the collection?  Perhaps we should test those of you who might be 
exposed to these insects.  With such a high percentage positive, the risk for 
transmission of Chagas could be high.  
Let me know if you have any questions.  We are happy to help.
Best wishes
Kristy
 
I suspect that the results from the bugs collected at th

RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas

[rafal kedzierski]

>From 'An Estimate of the Burden of Chagas Disease in the United States', 
>Clinicial Infectious Diseases, 2009, Volume 49, Issue 5.
 
'The United States cannot be classified as an area of nonendemicity for Chagas 
disease in the same sense as Europe or Asia. The southern states have enzootic 
T. cruzi transmission that involves at least 11 triatomine species and hosts 
such as raccoons, opossums, and domestic dogs. Nevertheless, the vast majority 
of T. cruzi -infected individuals are immigrants from areas of endemicity in 
Latin America. Only 7 autochthonous vector-borne cases of infection (4 in Texas 
and 1 each in California, Tennessee, and Louisiana) have been reported in the 
United States since 1955 (reference from 2007). The rarity of vector-borne 
transmission in the United States, compared with Latin America, is thought to 
be the result of better housing conditions and lower efficiency of North 
American vectors.
 
Estimation of the number of T. cruzi -infected individuals in the United States 
is challenging, because the underlying data are sparse. Previous calculations 
have relied on a patchwork of T. cruzi prevalence estimates, derived from blood 
donor screening data and surveys from Latin America applied to the immigrant 
population. The highest early estimate (占쏙옙370,000 infected US residents in 
1992) used a Latin America-wide prevalence rather than country-specific 
estimates and was therefore likely to be a substantial overestimation. 
Published US disease burden figures range from 50,000 to 1 million, but the 
lowest estimate is now 15 years old, and the highest estimate was based on an 
extrapolation of the highest early estimate thereby compounding the likely 
overestimation. '
 
I think 7 autochthonous cases in US is probably on the low side, since 
clinicians are not looking for Chagas disease. Still, in the realm of reality, 
few thousand Texans die on the road driving - buckle up and drive safely. And 
cave safely.
 
Rafal Kedzierski
DFW Grotto
 



List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:21:26 -0800
From: aim...@yahoo.com
To: l...@alumni.sfu.ca
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas



in your eye! 





From: Lyndon Tiu 
To: Aimee Beveridge  
Cc: texas cavers tc  
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas


Shit!




On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Aimee Beveridge  wrote:




I am sure this was pointed out earlier but being bitten isn't the problem.  Its 
oral or open wound contact with the infected feces.
 
 





From: rafal kedzierski 
To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; texas cavers tc  
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in 
Texas





Just throwing gas on the fire of complexity of life, I just want to point out 
that Trypanosoma cruzi or causitive factor in Chagas disease is not only 
trypanosome in the environment. Most of them are not directly harmful to H. 
sapiens. Therefore, before anyone jumps to any conclusion, how specific is the 
PCR used by Baylor College of Medicine for Trypanosoma cruzi? Where PCR primers 
used for detection tested against other related protozoa? Have the primers 
withstood the test of clinical practice?

Rafal Kedzierski
DFW caver
 




From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:18:40 -0600
Subject: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas



Folks,
 
Back in June, I collected four kissing bugs from the Deep and Punkin preserve 
in Edwards County, Texas.  This was in support of some research being conducted 
by the National School of Tropical Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine.  Two 
of the bugs were captured in the cabin and two were captured around the porch 
areas.  Here is the email recently sent to me by Kristy Orsburn Murray a 
researcher at Baylor.
 
We finally were able to develop and establish the PCR for testing the insects 
for Chagas.  We ran the PCRs yesterday.  I wanted to let you know that 3 of the 
4 kissing bugs were positive, including the blood fed triatomine.  It was still 
alive when we received it, and it had defecated in the Ziploc baggie. We took 
the feces separate from the insect and also ran PCR, and the feces was 
positive.  This was the insect that said it was found under a rug in one of the 
cabins.  We are running a blood meal analysis on it to see if we can identify 
the source of the blood meal.  If human, do you know who was in that cabin at 
the time of the collection?  Perhaps we should test those of you who might be 
exposed to these insects.  With such a high percentage positive, the risk for 
transmission of Chagas could be high.  
Let me know if you have any questions.  We are happy to help.
Best

RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas

[rafal kedzierski]

Just throwing gas on the fire of complexity of life, I just want to point out 
that Trypanosoma cruzi or causitive factor in Chagas disease is not only 
trypanosome in the environment. Most of them are not directly harmful to H. 
sapiens. Therefore, before anyone jumps to any conclusion, how specific is the 
PCR used by Baylor College of Medicine for Trypanosoma cruzi? Where PCR primers 
used for detection tested against other related protozoa? Have the primers 
withstood the test of clinical practice?

Rafal Kedzierski
DFW caver
 



From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:18:40 -0600
Subject: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas





Folks,
 
Back in June, I collected four kissing bugs from the Deep and Punkin preserve 
in Edwards County, Texas.  This was in support of some research being conducted 
by the National School of Tropical Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine.  Two 
of the bugs were captured in the cabin and two were captured around the porch 
areas.  Here is the email recently sent to me by Kristy Orsburn Murray a 
researcher at Baylor.
 
We finally were able to develop and establish the PCR for testing the insects 
for Chagas.  We ran the PCRs yesterday.  I wanted to let you know that 3 of the 
4 kissing bugs were positive, including the blood fed triatomine.  It was still 
alive when we received it, and it had defecated in the Ziploc baggie. We took 
the feces separate from the insect and also ran PCR, and the feces was 
positive.  This was the insect that said it was found under a rug in one of the 
cabins.  We are running a blood meal analysis on it to see if we can identify 
the source of the blood meal.  If human, do you know who was in that cabin at 
the time of the collection?  Perhaps we should test those of you who might be 
exposed to these insects.  With such a high percentage positive, the risk for 
transmission of Chagas could be high.  
Let me know if you have any questions.  We are happy to help.
Best wishes
Kristy
 
I suspect that the results from the bugs collected at the Deep Cabin are not 
unique to south Texas and that many of these bugs are positive.  I have five 
additional bugs from Bexar County that will be submitted for testing.  Chagas 
is not a nice disease and I suspect that a number of cavers who have camped out 
in the hill country over the years have been exposed. Below are some links on 
Chagas information. 
 
It is a personal decision on whether you should get tested and where and how 
you sleep. I’m sure this will create some lively discussions.
 
Geary Schindel  
 
 
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Chagas-disease-carrier-may-be-threat-in-Texas-3650719.php
 (From San Antonio Express News)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagas_disease(From Wikipedia)
 
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/chagas/   (From Centers for Disease 
Control)
 
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chagas-disease/DS00956  (From Mayo 
Clinic)
 
http://www.who.int/topics/chagas_disease/en/ (From World Health 
Organization)
 
  

RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas

[rafal kedzierski]

Just throwing gas on the fire of complexity of life, I just want to point out 
that Trypanosoma cruzi or causitive factor in Chagas disease is not only 
trypanosome in the environment. Most of them are not directly harmful to H. 
sapiens. Therefore, before anyone jumps to any conclusion, how specific is the 
PCR used by Baylor College of Medicine for Trypanosoma cruzi? Where PCR primers 
used for detection tested against other related protozoa? Have the primers 
withstood the test of clinical practice?

Rafal Kedzierski
DFW caver
 



From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:18:40 -0600
Subject: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas





Folks,
 
Back in June, I collected four kissing bugs from the Deep and Punkin preserve 
in Edwards County, Texas.  This was in support of some research being conducted 
by the National School of Tropical Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine.  Two 
of the bugs were captured in the cabin and two were captured around the porch 
areas.  Here is the email recently sent to me by Kristy Orsburn Murray a 
researcher at Baylor.
 
We finally were able to develop and establish the PCR for testing the insects 
for Chagas.  We ran the PCRs yesterday.  I wanted to let you know that 3 of the 
4 kissing bugs were positive, including the blood fed triatomine.  It was still 
alive when we received it, and it had defecated in the Ziploc baggie. We took 
the feces separate from the insect and also ran PCR, and the feces was 
positive.  This was the insect that said it was found under a rug in one of the 
cabins.  We are running a blood meal analysis on it to see if we can identify 
the source of the blood meal.  If human, do you know who was in that cabin at 
the time of the collection?  Perhaps we should test those of you who might be 
exposed to these insects.  With such a high percentage positive, the risk for 
transmission of Chagas could be high.  
Let me know if you have any questions.  We are happy to help.
Best wishes
Kristy
 
I suspect that the results from the bugs collected at the Deep Cabin are not 
unique to south Texas and that many of these bugs are positive.  I have five 
additional bugs from Bexar County that will be submitted for testing.  Chagas 
is not a nice disease and I suspect that a number of cavers who have camped out 
in the hill country over the years have been exposed. Below are some links on 
Chagas information. 
 
It is a personal decision on whether you should get tested and where and how 
you sleep. I’m sure this will create some lively discussions.
 
Geary Schindel  
 
 
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Chagas-disease-carrier-may-be-threat-in-Texas-3650719.php
 (From San Antonio Express News)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagas_disease(From Wikipedia)
 
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/chagas/   (From Centers for Disease 
Control)
 
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chagas-disease/DS00956  (From Mayo 
Clinic)
 
http://www.who.int/topics/chagas_disease/en/ (From World Health 
Organization)
 
  

RE: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas

[rafal kedzierski]

Just throwing gas on the fire of complexity of life, I just want to point out 
that Trypanosoma cruzi or causitive factor in Chagas disease is not only 
trypanosome in the environment. Most of them are not directly harmful to H. 
sapiens. Therefore, before anyone jumps to any conclusion, how specific is the 
PCR used by Baylor College of Medicine for Trypanosoma cruzi? Where PCR primers 
used for detection tested against other related protozoa? Have the primers 
withstood the test of clinical practice?

Rafal Kedzierski
DFW caver
 



From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:18:40 -0600
Subject: [Texascavers] Results of testing for Chagas in Kissing bugs in Texas





Folks,
 
Back in June, I collected four kissing bugs from the Deep and Punkin preserve 
in Edwards County, Texas.  This was in support of some research being conducted 
by the National School of Tropical Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine.  Two 
of the bugs were captured in the cabin and two were captured around the porch 
areas.  Here is the email recently sent to me by Kristy Orsburn Murray a 
researcher at Baylor.
 
We finally were able to develop and establish the PCR for testing the insects 
for Chagas.  We ran the PCRs yesterday.  I wanted to let you know that 3 of the 
4 kissing bugs were positive, including the blood fed triatomine.  It was still 
alive when we received it, and it had defecated in the Ziploc baggie. We took 
the feces separate from the insect and also ran PCR, and the feces was 
positive.  This was the insect that said it was found under a rug in one of the 
cabins.  We are running a blood meal analysis on it to see if we can identify 
the source of the blood meal.  If human, do you know who was in that cabin at 
the time of the collection?  Perhaps we should test those of you who might be 
exposed to these insects.  With such a high percentage positive, the risk for 
transmission of Chagas could be high.  
Let me know if you have any questions.  We are happy to help.
Best wishes
Kristy
 
I suspect that the results from the bugs collected at the Deep Cabin are not 
unique to south Texas and that many of these bugs are positive.  I have five 
additional bugs from Bexar County that will be submitted for testing.  Chagas 
is not a nice disease and I suspect that a number of cavers who have camped out 
in the hill country over the years have been exposed. Below are some links on 
Chagas information. 
 
It is a personal decision on whether you should get tested and where and how 
you sleep. I’m sure this will create some lively discussions.
 
Geary Schindel  
 
 
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Chagas-disease-carrier-may-be-threat-in-Texas-3650719.php
 (From San Antonio Express News)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagas_disease(From Wikipedia)
 
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/chagas/   (From Centers for Disease 
Control)
 
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chagas-disease/DS00956  (From Mayo 
Clinic)
 
http://www.who.int/topics/chagas_disease/en/ (From World Health 
Organization)
 
  

[Texascavers] Help wanted for group cave tours at Colorado Bend State Park, October 27th

[rafal kedzierski]

Hi all,

This is Rafal Kedzierski, one of DFW cavers. Recently, I joined Friends of the 
Colorado Bend State Park, 
volunteer group dedicated to helping the park. At the request of the 
park, we are looking to organize several group cave tours for visitors on 
Saturday, October 27th, 
through several of more tour friendly caves, like Circurina, Sweet, Lemons 
Ranch Caves. I'm looking for few good cavers to help with the effort. Knowledge 
of park is helpful but not necessary - I anticipate having at least 2 guides on 
every tour - just interest and caving experience.

Stay at the conference center or caver's camp for the weekend included. I 
anticipate some extracurricular caving activity afterwards as well.

Email me back if interested.

Rafal Kedzierski
  

[Texascavers] Help wanted for group cave tours at Colorado Bend State Park, October 27th

[rafal kedzierski]

Hi all,

This is Rafal Kedzierski, one of DFW cavers. Recently, I joined Friends of the 
Colorado Bend State Park, 
volunteer group dedicated to helping the park. At the request of the 
park, we are looking to organize several group cave tours for visitors on 
Saturday, October 27th, 
through several of more tour friendly caves, like Circurina, Sweet, Lemons 
Ranch Caves. I'm looking for few good cavers to help with the effort. Knowledge 
of park is helpful but not necessary - I anticipate having at least 2 guides on 
every tour - just interest and caving experience.

Stay at the conference center or caver's camp for the weekend included. I 
anticipate some extracurricular caving activity afterwards as well.

Email me back if interested.

Rafal Kedzierski
  

[Texascavers] Help wanted for group cave tours at Colorado Bend State Park, October 27th

[rafal kedzierski]

Hi all,

This is Rafal Kedzierski, one of DFW cavers. Recently, I joined Friends of the 
Colorado Bend State Park, 
volunteer group dedicated to helping the park. At the request of the 
park, we are looking to organize several group cave tours for visitors on 
Saturday, October 27th, 
through several of more tour friendly caves, like Circurina, Sweet, Lemons 
Ranch Caves. I'm looking for few good cavers to help with the effort. Knowledge 
of park is helpful but not necessary - I anticipate having at least 2 guides on 
every tour - just interest and caving experience.

Stay at the conference center or caver's camp for the weekend included. I 
anticipate some extracurricular caving activity afterwards as well.

Email me back if interested.

Rafal Kedzierski
  

RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[rafal kedzierski]

Every caver in Texas and most high school students know that inhaling really 
high carbon dioxide levels are not good for you.

But carbon dioxide is not some evil gas, it's naturally produced in your body 
as part of oxidation of organic compounds you consume. The problems arise when 
you can't get rid of it and that starts to interfere with your biochemical 
reactions by acidifying your system. Thankfully it is carbon dioxide level that 
we are physiologically sensing - hence you will feel worse than horrible before 
your physiology is in danger.

Rafal Kedzierski 

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:04:56 -0400
From: wdwal...@windstream.net
To: rafal...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center


  

  
  
Rafal,

  

  To much carbon dioxide will kill. A friend and I were surveying a
  cave that floods drastically years ago. As we surveyed I began to
  develop a headache and to feel nauseous. Finally my carbide light
  began to misbehave, so for some reason, I climbed up higher to
  change carbide. The lamp flame steadied some. I looked down at my
  survey partner I noticed that he was just fumbling with his lamp.
  At this point I realized what was wrong - high carbon dioxide
  content. I yelled at him to climb up to my level. He did. After he
  changed carbide, we left. Once out of the cave the headache and
  nausea went away. I never did complete the survey and never did go
  back to that cave.

  

  The CO2 was probably from the huge piles of rotting
  leaves throughout the cave.

  

  CO2 levels:

  

  OSHA safe level - 0.5%

  Max. short term exposure limit (OSHA) - 1.5%

  Start to get a headache - 2%

  Breathing twice normal rate - 3%

  

  

  

  Bill Walden

  NSS 11573

  

  

  On 07/27/2012 10:32 PM, rafal kedzierski wrote:



  
  
Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated
drinks, air we exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In
fact as long as you electron transport chain gives electrons to
acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon dioxide, you can kick it
and call yourself alive.



Rafal Kedzierski




  Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500

  From: skese...@gmail.com

  To: power_lou...@hotmail.com

  CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org;
  bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com

  Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

  

   I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction
  all my adult life ,I couldn't count the times our work
  envirment became compromised  because of toxic fumes, just
  like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there
  and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow
  , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you.
  

  

  
  

  
  


  On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote:

  

  
My personal experience has been that folks who
don't work in industry or in a government agency
which has a hazmat specialist on board have
never heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it
meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to
take hazmat training once/year. It's especially
critical here in Oregon and other states where
meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public
lands.

  


:-( Louise

  




  
There is an almost sure prevention
  for this form of stupidity. It is
  called the M.S.D.S., the Material
  Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be
  read BEFORE you open the container or
  apply the stuff!
 
E ^v^

  
 

  From: Louise Power
 

RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[rafal kedzierski]

Every caver in Texas and most high school students know that inhaling really 
high carbon dioxide levels are not good for you.

But carbon dioxide is not some evil gas, it's naturally produced in your body 
as part of oxidation of organic compounds you consume. The problems arise when 
you can't get rid of it and that starts to interfere with your biochemical 
reactions by acidifying your system. Thankfully it is carbon dioxide level that 
we are physiologically sensing - hence you will feel worse than horrible before 
your physiology is in danger.

Rafal Kedzierski 

Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:04:56 -0400
From: wdwal...@windstream.net
To: rafal...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center


  

  
  
Rafal,

  

  To much carbon dioxide will kill. A friend and I were surveying a
  cave that floods drastically years ago. As we surveyed I began to
  develop a headache and to feel nauseous. Finally my carbide light
  began to misbehave, so for some reason, I climbed up higher to
  change carbide. The lamp flame steadied some. I looked down at my
  survey partner I noticed that he was just fumbling with his lamp.
  At this point I realized what was wrong - high carbon dioxide
  content. I yelled at him to climb up to my level. He did. After he
  changed carbide, we left. Once out of the cave the headache and
  nausea went away. I never did complete the survey and never did go
  back to that cave.

  

  The CO2 was probably from the huge piles of rotting
  leaves throughout the cave.

  

  CO2 levels:

  

  OSHA safe level - 0.5%

  Max. short term exposure limit (OSHA) - 1.5%

  Start to get a headache - 2%

  Breathing twice normal rate - 3%

  

  

  

  Bill Walden

  NSS 11573

  

  

  On 07/27/2012 10:32 PM, rafal kedzierski wrote:



  
  
Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated
drinks, air we exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In
fact as long as you electron transport chain gives electrons to
acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon dioxide, you can kick it
and call yourself alive.



Rafal Kedzierski




  Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500

  From: skese...@gmail.com

  To: power_lou...@hotmail.com

  CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org;
  bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com

  Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

  

   I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction
  all my adult life ,I couldn't count the times our work
  envirment became compromised  because of toxic fumes, just
  like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there
  and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow
  , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you.
  

  

  
  

  
  


  On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote:

  

  
My personal experience has been that folks who
don't work in industry or in a government agency
which has a hazmat specialist on board have
never heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it
meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to
take hazmat training once/year. It's especially
critical here in Oregon and other states where
meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public
lands.

  


:-( Louise

  




  
There is an almost sure prevention
  for this form of stupidity. It is
  called the M.S.D.S., the Material
  Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be
  read BEFORE you open the container or
  apply the stuff!
 
E ^v^

  
 

  From: Louise Power
  
  Sent:

RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[rafal kedzierski]

Every caver in Texas and most high school students know that inhaling really 
high carbon dioxide levels are not good for you.

But carbon dioxide is not some evil gas, it's naturally produced in your body 
as part of oxidation of organic compounds you consume. The problems arise when 
you can't get rid of it and that starts to interfere with your biochemical 
reactions by acidifying your system. Thankfully it is carbon dioxide level that 
we are physiologically sensing - hence you will feel worse than horrible before 
your physiology is in danger.

Rafal Kedzierski 

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:04:56 -0400
From: wdwal...@windstream.net
To: rafal...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center


  

  
  
Rafal,

  

  To much carbon dioxide will kill. A friend and I were surveying a
  cave that floods drastically years ago. As we surveyed I began to
  develop a headache and to feel nauseous. Finally my carbide light
  began to misbehave, so for some reason, I climbed up higher to
  change carbide. The lamp flame steadied some. I looked down at my
  survey partner I noticed that he was just fumbling with his lamp.
  At this point I realized what was wrong - high carbon dioxide
  content. I yelled at him to climb up to my level. He did. After he
  changed carbide, we left. Once out of the cave the headache and
  nausea went away. I never did complete the survey and never did go
  back to that cave.

  

  The CO2 was probably from the huge piles of rotting
  leaves throughout the cave.

  

  CO2 levels:

  

  OSHA safe level - 0.5%

  Max. short term exposure limit (OSHA) - 1.5%

  Start to get a headache - 2%

  Breathing twice normal rate - 3%

  

  

  

  Bill Walden

  NSS 11573

  

  

  On 07/27/2012 10:32 PM, rafal kedzierski wrote:



  
  
Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated
drinks, air we exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In
fact as long as you electron transport chain gives electrons to
acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon dioxide, you can kick it
and call yourself alive.



Rafal Kedzierski




  Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500

  From: skese...@gmail.com

  To: power_lou...@hotmail.com

  CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org;
  bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com

  Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

  

   I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction
  all my adult life ,I couldn't count the times our work
  envirment became compromised  because of toxic fumes, just
  like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there
  and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow
  , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you.
  

  

  
  

  
  


  On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote:

  

  
My personal experience has been that folks who
don't work in industry or in a government agency
which has a hazmat specialist on board have
never heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it
meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to
take hazmat training once/year. It's especially
critical here in Oregon and other states where
meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public
lands.

  


:-( Louise

  




  
There is an almost sure prevention
  for this form of stupidity. It is
  called the M.S.D.S., the Material
  Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be
  read BEFORE you open the container or
  apply the stuff!
 
E ^v^

  
 

  From: Louise Power
 

RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[rafal kedzierski]

Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated drinks, air we 
exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In fact as long as you electron 
transport chain gives electrons to acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon 
dioxide, you can kick it and call yourself alive.

Rafal Kedzierski

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500
From: skese...@gmail.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com
CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

 I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult life 
,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised  because of 
toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there 
and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow , he told me in 
his latter years that stuff is bad for you.




On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power  wrote:




My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or in a 
government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never heard of an 
MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to 
take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical here in Oregon and 
other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public lands.


:-( Louise








There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is called 
the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be read BEFORE 
you open the container or apply the stuff!
 
E ^v^


 

From: Louise Power 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM
To: Geary Schindel ; Bill 
Mixon ; Texas Cavers 
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor 
center
 

Wait!!!  You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! 
After all, Gary, it's really not a mine anymore.



> From: 
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 
-0500
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
> 

> Folks,
> 
> I agree with Bill, when using solvent based 
paints (or for that matter, any hazards material) in a confined space, it is 
much quicker, easier and cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded 
any health related chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or 
canaries. Most of the time, most folks become violently ill before they 
actually 
die. While this is not the recommended method by the American Council of 
Governmental Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often 
used 
by industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at least 
a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures such as an 
increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably won't be 
working 
for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem.
> 
> Matter of fact, 
with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by allowing humans in a 
contaminated work area without respirators, they actually help clean the air as 
the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers or silica (good for the room, bad 
for the lungs). If you would like to see an excellent presentation on silicoses 
and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West Virginia and the largest industrial accident 
in US History, you may want to visit Helen Lang's web page 
http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf 
> 
> I'm sure 
that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels and safety 
precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe for use in a 
confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about using the product 
only in well ventilated areas was just to protect them from lawsuits. 
> 

> Using canaries for air monitoring has fallen out of favor in recent 
years as they are cute and folks get attached to them. In addition, there are a 
number of powerful animal rights groups that help protect their interests 
(wonder how that would work for humans). The correct method would be to develop 
a health and safety plan that would require proper environmental controls such 
as ventilation, selecting appropriate chemicals, using protective equipment, 
closing down the facility, and air monitoring. However, that all costs time and 
money.
> 
> G 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
-Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill 
[mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40 
AM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor 
center
> 
> The fact that a few staff "had to" be taken to hospital 
does not prove that there was any real danger or there were any real inju   
  
  

RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[rafal kedzierski]

Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated drinks, air we 
exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In fact as long as you electron 
transport chain gives electrons to acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon 
dioxide, you can kick it and call yourself alive.

Rafal Kedzierski

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500
From: skese...@gmail.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com
CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

 I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult life 
,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised  because of 
toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there 
and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow , he told me in 
his latter years that stuff is bad for you.




On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power  wrote:




My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or in a 
government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never heard of an 
MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to 
take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical here in Oregon and 
other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public lands.


:-( Louise








There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is called 
the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be read BEFORE 
you open the container or apply the stuff!
 
E ^v^


 

From: Louise Power 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM
To: Geary Schindel ; Bill 
Mixon ; Texas Cavers 
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor 
center
 

Wait!!!  You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! 
After all, Gary, it's really not a mine anymore.



> From: 
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 
-0500
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
> 

> Folks,
> 
> I agree with Bill, when using solvent based 
paints (or for that matter, any hazards material) in a confined space, it is 
much quicker, easier and cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded 
any health related chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or 
canaries. Most of the time, most folks become violently ill before they 
actually 
die. While this is not the recommended method by the American Council of 
Governmental Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often 
used 
by industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at least 
a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures such as an 
increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably won't be 
working 
for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem.
> 
> Matter of fact, 
with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by allowing humans in a 
contaminated work area without respirators, they actually help clean the air as 
the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers or silica (good for the room, bad 
for the lungs). If you would like to see an excellent presentation on silicoses 
and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West Virginia and the largest industrial accident 
in US History, you may want to visit Helen Lang's web page 
http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf 
> 
> I'm sure 
that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels and safety 
precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe for use in a 
confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about using the product 
only in well ventilated areas was just to protect them from lawsuits. 
> 

> Using canaries for air monitoring has fallen out of favor in recent 
years as they are cute and folks get attached to them. In addition, there are a 
number of powerful animal rights groups that help protect their interests 
(wonder how that would work for humans). The correct method would be to develop 
a health and safety plan that would require proper environmental controls such 
as ventilation, selecting appropriate chemicals, using protective equipment, 
closing down the facility, and air monitoring. However, that all costs time and 
money.
> 
> G 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
-Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill 
[mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40 
AM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor 
center
> 
> The fact that a few staff "had to" be taken to hospital 
does not prove that there was any real danger or there were any real inju   
  
  

RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[rafal kedzierski]

Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated drinks, air we 
exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In fact as long as you electron 
transport chain gives electrons to acceptor like oxygen as you make carbon 
dioxide, you can kick it and call yourself alive.

Rafal Kedzierski

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500
From: skese...@gmail.com
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com
CC: nmca...@comcast.net; gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

 I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult life 
,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised  because of 
toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for haulin A out of there 
and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer for Dow , he told me in 
his latter years that stuff is bad for you.




On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power  wrote:




My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or in a 
government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never heard of an 
MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM, we're required to 
take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical here in Oregon and 
other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public lands.


:-( Louise








There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is called 
the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be read BEFORE 
you open the container or apply the stuff!
 
E ^v^


 

From: Louise Power 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM
To: Geary Schindel ; Bill 
Mixon ; Texas Cavers 
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor 
center
 

Wait!!!  You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! 
After all, Gary, it's really not a mine anymore.



> From: 
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
> To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 
-0500
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
> 

> Folks,
> 
> I agree with Bill, when using solvent based 
paints (or for that matter, any hazards material) in a confined space, it is 
much quicker, easier and cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded 
any health related chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or 
canaries. Most of the time, most folks become violently ill before they 
actually 
die. While this is not the recommended method by the American Council of 
Governmental Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often 
used 
by industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at least 
a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures such as an 
increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably won't be 
working 
for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem.
> 
> Matter of fact, 
with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by allowing humans in a 
contaminated work area without respirators, they actually help clean the air as 
the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers or silica (good for the room, bad 
for the lungs). If you would like to see an excellent presentation on silicoses 
and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West Virginia and the largest industrial accident 
in US History, you may want to visit Helen Lang's web page 
http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf 
> 
> I'm sure 
that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels and safety 
precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe for use in a 
confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about using the product 
only in well ventilated areas was just to protect them from lawsuits. 
> 

> Using canaries for air monitoring has fallen out of favor in recent 
years as they are cute and folks get attached to them. In addition, there are a 
number of powerful animal rights groups that help protect their interests 
(wonder how that would work for humans). The correct method would be to develop 
a health and safety plan that would require proper environmental controls such 
as ventilation, selecting appropriate chemicals, using protective equipment, 
closing down the facility, and air monitoring. However, that all costs time and 
money.
> 
> G 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
-Original Message-
> From: Mixon Bill 
[mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40 
AM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor 
center
> 
> The fact that a few staff "had to" be taken to hospital 
does not prove that there was any real danger or there were any real inju   
  
  

[Texascavers] WNS syndrome news dissection

[rafal kedzierski]

Delving further into the PNAS article claiming that N. American and European 
WNS is the same.
 
Just because American bats infected with N. American and European fungus showed 
similar symptoms does not mean that these are the exact same Geomyces 
destructans, which I think the article was implying. I think the importance may 
be for proving the Kochs postulates of Geomyces destructans in white nose 
syndrome (implying that fungus is causative of the disease). There is this 
amazing thing called 'molecular biology' that actually lets you look at the 
genomic structure and determine its similarity to other pathogens, and trace 
its genetic drift. 

>From Pubmed, there is an article from 2011 that shows clonal genotype of US 
>isolates is similar, imlpying clonal dispersion of fungus in North America 
>(Emerg Infect Dis, 2011, July 17(7): 1273-6). However, I'm not aware of any 
>papers showing molecular match between N. American or European Geomyces 
>destructans.
 
Rafal Kedzierski  

[Texascavers] WNS syndrome news dissection

[rafal kedzierski]

Delving further into the PNAS article claiming that N. American and European 
WNS is the same.
 
Just because American bats infected with N. American and European fungus showed 
similar symptoms does not mean that these are the exact same Geomyces 
destructans, which I think the article was implying. I think the importance may 
be for proving the Kochs postulates of Geomyces destructans in white nose 
syndrome (implying that fungus is causative of the disease). There is this 
amazing thing called 'molecular biology' that actually lets you look at the 
genomic structure and determine its similarity to other pathogens, and trace 
its genetic drift. 

>From Pubmed, there is an article from 2011 that shows clonal genotype of US 
>isolates is similar, imlpying clonal dispersion of fungus in North America 
>(Emerg Infect Dis, 2011, July 17(7): 1273-6). However, I'm not aware of any 
>papers showing molecular match between N. American or European Geomyces 
>destructans.
 
Rafal Kedzierski  

[Texascavers] WNS syndrome news dissection

[rafal kedzierski]

Delving further into the PNAS article claiming that N. American and European 
WNS is the same.
 
Just because American bats infected with N. American and European fungus showed 
similar symptoms does not mean that these are the exact same Geomyces 
destructans, which I think the article was implying. I think the importance may 
be for proving the Kochs postulates of Geomyces destructans in white nose 
syndrome (implying that fungus is causative of the disease). There is this 
amazing thing called 'molecular biology' that actually lets you look at the 
genomic structure and determine its similarity to other pathogens, and trace 
its genetic drift. 

>From Pubmed, there is an article from 2011 that shows clonal genotype of US 
>isolates is similar, imlpying clonal dispersion of fungus in North America 
>(Emerg Infect Dis, 2011, July 17(7): 1273-6). However, I'm not aware of any 
>papers showing molecular match between N. American or European Geomyces 
>destructans.
 
Rafal Kedzierski  

[Texascavers] San Saba Radon/CO2

[rafal kedzierski]

Or coexistence of radon and CO2 in caves of Ellenburger limestone could 
indicate that the limestone is poorly permeable and simply doesn't allow for 
good ventilation of gases produced below the surface. Radon is a product of 
U-234 to thorium to radium to finally radon, with alpha particle decay (two 
protons and two neutrons) and no release of chemical such as CO2 as byproduct. 
Heating of limestone at high temperatures produces CO2 - but that would have to 
be in excess of 800C (and even higher at higher pressures) - temperature that 
is not attained until depth of 30+ km is reached.  Therefore, this is not 
likely to have an effect on local aquifers.

Rafal Kedzierski
  

[Texascavers] Another observational/semiscientific explanation of high CO2 in caves

[rafal kedzierski]

My dad, Wojciech, a chemist and a caver, became intrigued with high CO2 levels 
in some Texas caves. For few years in early 1990s, Wojciech and I measured CO2 
and O2 in caves of Colorado Bend SP.  It became clear that there were two basic 
types of high CO2 caves there - (1) those in which CO2 and O2 concentrations 
added to 21% (just like outside air) and (2) those in which CO2 and O2 
concentrations were much higher than 21%.  

 

In caves which had combined concentrations much higher than 21%, the 
concentration of CO2 was at a ratio that suggested that carbon dioxide was 
displacing other gases.  Such ratios were typically seen in caves which either 
have communication with aquifer (such as Gorman Cave) or are very deep and have 
presumed communication with aquifer (such as Lemons Ranch Cave).  This 
suggested in term that water in these caves was outgassing CO2 into cave 
atmosphere.  Caves that just had organic matter but were not excessively deep 
had CO2 and O2 concentration that added up to 21% - suggesting organic matter 
was consuming oxygen to make carbon dioxide.  Of course, some caves had 
combination of both features and intermediate combined carbon dioxide and 
oxygen concentrations.


But why high CO2 in caves of Ellenberger and selected limestones?  I think one 
can come up with lots of explanations - poor fracturing and poor surface 
communication, coexisting strata releasing carbon dioxide, etc.  I have 
suspicion (and some indirect evidence) that overall solutional chemistry of 
carbon dioxide must be altered in Ellenberger limestone.  From chemistry point 
of view, when CO2 is dissolved in water in presence of other acids, it will be 
forced to leave the solution.  These acids don't have to be stronger than 
carbonic acid for this to take effect.  I think this is likely what is 
happening in Ellenberger - during disolution the rock releases other acidic 
compounds that force outgassing of carbon dioxide.

 

The neat part about this is that this theory is not difficult to test - this is 
one of the ideas that Colorado Bend SP project can address. 

 

Rafal Kedzierski

Maverick Grotto

DFW
  
_
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

RE: [Texascavers] Climate

[rafal kedzierski]

'That is not my idea of biodiversity, sounds more like the freedom of choice 
you get from shopping at 7-11, but it is a good example of domination!'

 

Just because you don't like it, does not make it not real.  Just because you 
have a bias towards certain species, doesn't make it right, better or worse.  
It just exposes your view as an opinion, nothing else.  'De gustibus non est 
disputandum', tastes are just that, tastes.  

 

Rafal Kedzierski

Maverick Grotto


 


From: bmorgan...@aol.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 18:46:11 -0500
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Climate


In a message dated 1/4/2010 3:33:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
texascavers-digest-h...@texascavers.com writes:

"Homo  sapiens induced 'fast pace of change' has created hundreds of new  
colors in tulips, hundreds of new apple tree varieties.  We  have crossed dogs 
to create at least 200  different breeds."

That is not my idea of biodiversity, sounds more like the freedom of choice 
you get from shopping at 7-11, but it is a good example of domination!
 
For once I agree that this is too OT so I'm outta here!

sleaze
  
_
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/

RE: [Texascavers] Climate change -- OT

[rafal kedzierski]

'The problem is the RATE OF CHANGE over and above the background natural rate 
of change.'  There is little data to justify that current rate of change is 
significantly different from rates of change over the life of our planet.  Last 
time CO2 was this high was 800,000 years ago - or about a blink of an eye in 
history of the planet.  There has been about 10 'Ice Ages' in last one million 
years, most with incredibly sharp transitions in temperatures at their onset 
and termination.  About 12,000 years ago, during Younger Dryas event, Europe 
cooled off by about 5-7 degrees Celsius in about 20 years - now that's a 
change.  There have been real temperature changes in the past that had little 
to do with measly bipedal ape over the course of 4 thousand million (or 
billion) year history of this planet.
 
'There is no question but that much of current climate change is anthropogenic 
and driven by fossil fuel consumption.'  Actually, there is a question of how 
much of temperature rise - if one can even document it - is truly 
anthropogenic. There are hundreds of variables affecting how temperature 
measurements themselves are obtained or how to interpret the data in reasonable 
fashion. There are so many variables involved in final temperature at the 
planet surface - solar emissions, particulate matter and composition of the 
atmosphere, cloud cover, plant cover, earth's spin rate, etc - that it is 
almost impossible to create a reliable computer model or an experimental 
environment to test effect of anthropogenic components on this complex system. 
Even if you are certain that earth has warmed, it would be almost impossible to 
prove our antropogenic footprint.

 
'An increased rate of change inevitably favors fast evolving "lower" life forms 
and a diminution of biodiversity.'  Not sure what defines any life form as 
lower or what that has to do with pace of change. Homo sapiens induced 'fast 
pace of change' has created hundreds of new colors in tulips, hundreds of new 
apple tree varieties.  We have crossed dogs to create at least 200 different 
breeds.  Antibiotic usage has resulted in hundreds of drug resistant microbes. 
Recent pace of change has in fact induced biodiversity creation in many 
branches of life-tree.
 
That is not to say that we should limit carbon dioxide emissions, I do.  That 
is not to say we shouldn't limit changes in some parts of our environment, for 
whatever ethical or otherwise selfish reasons.  Point is to expose problems 
with 'obvious conclusion', same pattern that led to thoughts of global cooling 
in 1970s.  Point is to see that earth is not static and changes we see around 
us are not anthropogenic - which actually show our limitations, not our 
domination.
 
Rafal Kedzierski
Maverick Grotto






From: lkpa...@sbcglobal.net
To: bmorgan...@aol.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:53:39 -0600
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Climate change -- OT






Your Chinese overlords have some quick learning to do if they are going to 
evolve into the enlightened rulers you long for.
Check out some of their current problems:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/asia/04china.html 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/world/asia/30fraud.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=Chinese%20government%20corruption&st=cse
 
 
 
 
 


From: bmorgan...@aol.com [mailto:bmorgan...@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:46 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Climate change
 

I am so very sick and tired of the climate change debate and of the perversion 
of science that is used by both sides to justify their underlying political 
agenda. No one has ever suggested that the earth's climate is static. 

 

There is no question but that much of current climate change is anthropogenic 
and driven by fossil fuel consumption. The problem is the RATE OF CHANGE over 
and above the background natural rate of change (which changes all the time!). 

 

The evolution of life on earth, especially that of so called "higher" life 
forms, cannot keep pace with the current rate of change which is greatly 
exacerbated by our rape of the planet. An increased rate of change inevitably 
favors fast evolving "lower" life forms and a diminution of biodiversity. That 
means that in the future we will manufacture our energy from bioengineered pond 
scum and eat the byproducts thereof. That is not a future that any responsible 
person would want for their children's children.

 

I am a fundamentally conservative person. That means that I prefer the status 
quo, not the status quo of the twentieth century, but rather the status quo of 
the last few million years during which time change was slow and natural 
barriers prevented promiscuous intermingling. As a result of which the 
biosphere increased in richness until quite rece

[Texascavers] You mean earth's magnetic field has never been static - just like its temperature?

[rafal kedzierski]

I say damn the earth as being 'anti-environmental', after all, we should expect 
no change - no change in species, climate, or magnetic field.  This is an 
interesting graph from past 100K years, in Greenland - that relatively stable 
plateau on the right is last 10,000 years.

 




Rafal Kedzierski

Maverick Grotto
  
_
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[Texascavers] Another reason to go for CBSP weekend

[rafal kedzierski]

With all the rain and cooler weather (especially the rain), I anticipate 'bad 
air' in caves will not be an issue.  Mark Gee and I are planning on surveying 
remaining parts of Lemons Ranch Cave, so if you haven't seen the crazy 
formations in the back and want to stretch the tape, learn how to sketch, this 
is a good weekend.

 

Rafal Kedzierski
  
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[Texascavers] RE: New laws

[rafal kedzierski]

Lots of rules are made for a reason and should be adhered to.  Working in the 
hospital, I see a lot of cases of preventable trauma - and I'm not referring to 
obesity and diabetes - but mashed/thrown out of the vehicle category.  And 
while human tragedy of having someone be on ventilator for the rest of his/her 
life may be high, there is a real cost of taking care of trauma that affects 
all of us.  Various studies in literature show that behavior leading to 
anywhere between 30-70% of accrued medical care cost is preventable.  So 
anytime you look at your ever increasing health insurance bill, part of it is 
due to those wanting to express their 'freedom.'  Fine, I don't have a problem 
with that, as long as the society and medical providers and society have the 
right to pull the plug on someone - which is currently not part of the game.

 

Rafal

Maverick Grotto
  
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[Texascavers] About Bracken Bat Cave, on cnn...

[rafal kedzierski]

Just wanted to share this little video about Bracken Bat Cave, on cnn.com.   
See http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/08/30/wolf.texas.bats.cnn.  It's 
good that joe public will get a little exposure to the benefits of bat caves. 

 

Fran, when out on caving trips I remember you looking a bit more appropriate - 
little more muddy and grundgy - but will just have to accept you like this as 
well.

 

Rafal Kedzierski

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[Texascavers] Person in charge of CBSP trips during ICS, contact me...

[rafal kedzierski]

If person in charge of CBSP trips during ICS could contact me...

 

Rafal Kedzierski

Maverick Grotto

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[Texascavers] TSA Colorado Bend SP Project

[rafal kedzierski]

Thanks for the comments Mark, but ultimately the thanks belong to all the 
participants who came out and got dirty in the name of caving.  This despite 
gas prices being what they are, and all the other caving activities in the 
state as well as outside of it.  
 
I think the only misconception is that the project is done.  There are still 
caves to be found - especially in the eastern part of the park and across the 
river.  There are caves still to be explored and surveyed - Gorman Creek 
Crevice is about 1.5 km and going, Lost Petzl system survey still continues.
 
Rafal Kedzierski
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[Texascavers] TSA Colorado Bend SP Project Leadership change

[rafal kedzierski]

This upcoming year I have to focus on my job and career more than I really 
would like - I have to pass my accreditation exams - so being in charge of 
Colorado Bend SP is something I can't do.  Still love caving, still love the 
Hill Country and the park, I am just going to come out to support the project 
as a member and not leader.Jim Kennedy has agreed to take over as coordinator, 
with Butch Fralia, Mark Gee, and Keith Heuss filling in as the knights of round 
table.  If anyone wants to contact either Jim, his email is 
jkenn...@batcon.org.  The email to all those involved in running the project is 
c...@maverickgrotto.org.   Cave on, Rafal KedzierskiMaverick Grotto, TSA, NSS
Dallas, TX
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP trip May 9-11th, 2008

[rafal kedzierski]

The Colorado Bend State Park project weekend is up on Come helplocate, 
survey, and produce maps of all the caves on the 5400+ acreproperty. By last 
count, we about 400 caves and karst features inthe park, and no doubt many more 
that still have not been found. Wewill be camping at the cavers' campsite, to 
the right of themain park road, on the road that starts right behind the 
entrancesign.  Feel free to contact us at c...@maverickgrotto.org, or look 
fordirections at http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html.  Keith Heuss
and Mark Gee will be in charge, I am in DC for training and unfortunately
wont be able to be there.
 
Rafal Kedzierski
Coordinator, CBSP
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP Project trip this weekend

[rafal kedzierski]

Fire ban has been lifted so fire can burn bright at the campsite.  Weather 
looks good, so come out and enjoy caving at Colorado Bend SP!!!
Rafal Kedzierski
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP April 11, 12, 13th

[rafal kedzierski]

The Colorado Bend State Park project weekend is up on Come helplocate, 
survey, and produce maps of all the caves on the 5400+ acreproperty. By last 
count, we about 400 caves and karst features inthe park, and no doubt many more 
that still have not been found. Wewill be camping at the cavers' campsite, to 
the right of themain park road, on the road that starts right behind the 
entrancesign. Weather should be great - unlike last year, no snow in forecast. 
Feel free to contact us at c...@maverickgrotto.org, or look fordirections at 
http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html. See youon Friday night or 
Saturday morning Butch Fralia, Mark Gee, Keith Heuss, and the writer, Rafal 
Kedzierski
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RE: [Texascavers] Asthma, allergies and caving

[rafal kedzierski]

I have allergic type of asthma, and never had a problem with it in the cave.  
If someone has a severe asthmatic response, it may not be advisable to take 
them caving, or just have them carry a bronchodilator inhaler.  If there is an 
allergic type of asthma, blocking the histamine receptors with anti-allergic 
mediations is awesome.  The good news is that fear/anxiety/stress is a good 
release of epinephrine - and epi is a great bronchodilator...
 
Rafal Kedzierski
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend weekend...

[rafal kedzierski]

Since the weather will be quite nasty on Friday night - followed by beautiful 
sunny weekend - another option for the weekend is to stay at the conference 
center.  Mark and I should be there before 8 pm on Friday, so if anyone is 
interested in joining us near the fire there, hey, we will bring the wine.  
Cory Evans, the superintendent, asked me to again be careful on the road 
leading to the center since hikers/bikers are now using it as a trail, and to 
consider car pooling down to the center itself.
 
Fire ban has not been lifted as of yet, so if people are planning on camping at 
the cavers campsite - which is always an option - beware that no open fires are 
allowed.  Hopefully that will change soon with all the rainfall.  See you all 
at the park!!!
 
Rafal Kedzierski
 
PS.  If anyone doesn't know directions to the conference center, it's the first 
left after the park entrance.  There is a big gate before getting to the 
conference center which will be dummy-locked.  Follow the road about 1 mile 
down to the old house.
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP trip this weekend:)

[rafal kedzierski]

Couple of things about the trip this weekend:
 
1) If you are going to stay at the conference center, watch for hikers on the 
road to the center, it's being used as a hiking trail now, and avoiding 
fatalities form state park visitors is always a good thing :)...
 
2) Fire ban across state of Texas, meaning that the only fire that will be 
burning at the park this weekend will be in the fireplace at the conference 
center...
 
See yall there,
Rafal Kedzierski
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[Texascavers] Friday, February 9th, Colorado Bend SP Project

[rafal kedzierski]

Unless hit by terrible winter weather, Mark Gee and I are planning on getting 
there early on Friday and going into Lemons' Ranch and starting the survey, 
with the aim of finishing the survey by the weekend's end.  If anyone wants to 
join us to cave or survey, drop either one of us a line - we are aiming to be 
in the cave in early afternoon...
 
Rafal Kedzierski
Colorado Bend SP Project
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP Project February 8-10th

[rafal kedzierski]

The Colorado Bend State Park project weekend is up on Come helplocate, 
survey, and produce maps of all the caves on the 5400+ acreproperty. By last 
count, we about 400 caves and karst features inthe park, and no doubt many more 
that still have not been found.  Staying
at conference center or camping at the caver's campground, choice is
yours. Feel free to contact us at c...@maverickgrotto.org, or look 
fordirections to either the campground or the conference center at 
http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html. See you on Friday 
night or Saturday morning
Butch Fralia, Mark Gee, Keith Heuss, and the writer, Rafal Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Wanted to share a list of things to do this weekend at CBSP...

[rafal kedzierski]

Just made a list of things that could be accomplished this weekend and just 
wanted to share it with TSA winter meeting attendees.  More info, other 
suggestions, and GPS locations of these and other caves can be obtained from 
Keith, Butch, Mark, or Jim...
 
1) Lemons Ranch Cave - needs a survey and future map.  Two teams can work 
side-by-side, or this can be likely done in 2 trips.  Additionally, 
radiolocation of the large room at the end of the decorated portion of the cave 
(especially the location of passages leading from its upper end) should be done 
to see if another entrance could be opened up.  Watch out for high CO2.
 
2) Gorman Creek Crevice - continued survey led by Mark Gee, with another 
estimated 200 feet needed to join with Horshoe Chimney passage, and additional 
passage at the entance.  
 
3) Ice Box Cave and sorrounding caves need good descriptions and survey.  
Located on the way to conference center.  Watch out for bad air.
 
 Ice Box Cave - 1/11/00: A fissure entrance, approx 75’ long and up to 4’ wide, 
leads apprx. 40 feet down to a wider fissure inside that goes 30-40’ at its 
floor area.  There are a couple ledges that one could stand along the drop, but 
vertical gear is generally required for access.  There are reports of a loop 
crawl and also another vert drop to chimney down perhaps 10’ to water level 
(this was a week after a flood).  More glass exposed after latest rain, and 
more trash could be removed.  In terms of biological significance, bats, 
crickets were noted in the cave.  This cave was visited by Dale Barnard, 
Jeannette Joost, Brian Trowbridge, Paul Trowbridge (Ref: CBSP files).
Cheap Thrill Cave - 11/12/00:  This small cave consists of a single drop. At 
the floor of this cave there was a small "stream" flowing. The cave continues 
beyond the end of survey. However it will require some enlargement of the 
passage to be humanly passable.  The cave had some crickets and spiders.  This 
cave was visited by Dale Barnard, Terry Holsinger, Jeannette Joost, Brian 
Trowbridge, Paul Trowbridge, Sean Vincent (Ref: CBSP files).
 New Orleans Cave - 11/10/07:  Visited by Kyla Welch-Rubin and Gregory Dunham, 
the cave consists of 15 foot climeable drop from an oval shaped entrance to a 
dirt floor.  There is a 6 foot long passage that extends on the west side 
before ending, and no crawl space to the east.  No trash was noted in the cave. 
 Few harvestman and small bones were noted near the bottom (Ref: CBSP files).
 
4) Cave above Gorman Falls Cave (aka Devil’s Stinkhole) along the road needs to 
be explored and mapped.  Possibly connects to Gorman Falls Cave.  Be aware of 
bad air.
 
Devil’s Stinkhole description: 11/10/07:  The cave was explored by Mike and 
Connie Bales, Keith Heuss, and Fran Hutchens.  A cave supposedly connects to 
Gorman Falls Cave, but no map or data to support this conncection exists.  Fran 
entered the 10 foot long fissure and after descending a few feet found himself 
in an 8 foot long, 3 foot wide room.  From one end, rocks seemed to fall quite 
a long way before hitting the bottom.  Since the cave is located at least 100 
feet horizontally from Gorman Falls Cave, the members of the team doubt direct 
connection exists.  Air was bad even at the top of the pit, so exploration will 
have to wait for cooler months (Ref: CBSP files).
 
5) Little Labyrinth Cave needs to be entered, explored, and mapped. Extensive 
cave on the northern fringes of Gorman Falls property that previously has had 
bad air. 
 
6) Ridgewalking to relocate and write descriptions of caves in McLarrin fissure 
system.  Butch Fralia and Keith Heuss would provide the directions.
 
7) Ridgewalking to the east and north of Red Gate Cave. Very karsty area, and 
surely more caves are hiding there.

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[Texascavers] Survey and mapping challenge, Lemons Ranch Cave, CBSP

[rafal kedzierski]

Just want to throw a challenge to those attending the January meeting at CBSP.  
While Jim has tackled Lost Petzl system, Mark and I have tackled Gorman Creek 
Crevice (and lots of smaller ones), and frequently sized cave remains to be 
surveyed and high-grade map to be generated.  Lemons Ranch Cave is cave used to 
take tours through (at least when CO2 is low), yet the only map I am aware of 
is the old TSA map, which doesn't include the passage heading off to the right 
and towards the pit, passage above the pit, and survey in the pit itself.  
Probably about 1000 feet of survey total, maybe more.
 
If anyone feels up to the challenge, complete survey of this cave could be 
completed in 2 trips, say January and February trips, when CO2 is the lowest.  
I would like to follow it up with a radiolocation of the large decorated room 
in the back, to see if another CO2 reducing entrance could be created.
 
Any takers for a great mapping adventure?Rafal Kedzierski
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[Texascavers] Request for attendees, CBSP Project, January 11-13th, 2008

[rafal kedzierski]

The Gorman Falls part of Colorado Bend SP has been opened to the public - that 
is hikers park at the large gate leading to Gorman Falls property, and hike 
down on the road to the Gorman Falls - and this practice will continue in the 
future.  If anyone is driving down to the conference center, just be aware that 
you are sharing the road with bipedal hominids like yourself, and to take it 
easy on some of the road curves.
 
Take care yall,
Rafal Kedzierski
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[Texascavers] TSA Winter Meeting at Colorado Bend State Park Project, January 11-13th

[rafal kedzierski]

TSA Winter Meeting at Colorado Bend State Park project weekend is up on 
Come help locate, survey, and produce maps of all the caves on the 5400+ acre 
property. By last count, there are about 400 caves and karst features in the 
park, and no doubt many more that still have not been found. I - Rafal - will 
not be there - I have work and home stuff to take care of - but Butch Fralia, 
Keith Heuss, Jim Kennedy, and likely Mark Gee will be there - and Butch Fralia 
and Keith Heuss have agreed to run the project. Plenty of camping space at the 
caver's camp, which is uphill just to the right of the Colorado Bend SP 
entrance sign.  TSA meeting will be held at conference center on the falls, 
which also has space to crash at.  If needed directions and GPS data are at 
http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html. 
 
For questions, email Butch Fralia at ï؟½cave...@charter.net or Keith Heuss at 
caverke...@yahoo.com. Rafal Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Volunteers for Girl Scout Trip to Colorado Bend SP, Saturday, January 19th

[rafal kedzierski]

Ann Evensen, a girl scout troop leader, has asked me about helping her take 2 
groups of 15 girl scouts through Gorman and Circurina Cave at Colorado Bend SP 
on Saturday, January 19th.  So far I have found no one who could be there that 
weekend and help her out, so I just want to send out an email to see if anyone 
familliar with these caves volunteers.  Cory Evans, the park sup, has offered 
help with accomodations as well.  Any takers?
 
Happy Holidays,
 
Rafal Kedzierski
CBSP Project
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend State Park Project Nov 9-11th - Thank You Note

[rafal kedzierski]

Just wanted to thank everyone for great turnout, for all the work put into the 
cooking fajitas and all the fixings - and that includes Butch Fralia, Sharon 
Mastbrook, Myda Fuentes, Bruce Turner, Jody Horton, Keith Heuss, Mike Bales, 
and everyone else involved.  Thank you TPWD and Friends of the Park for 
providing the food and a great marble cake to celebrate 20th year anniversary. 
On the caving front, two teams continued survey of initial portions of Gorman 
Creek Crevice and got muddy enough to really show.  Other groups headed to Ice 
Box Cave area to start surveying and writing descriptions on the caves in that 
region.  The midnight trip to Gorman Cave wasn't so midnight - more like 10 pm 
- but it was fun to run around in a huge, clean washed passages and enjoy lots 
of upright caving.  
 
So see you all on the next trip - January 12th and 13th Rafal Kedzierski
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[Texascavers] Celebrating 20 years of Colorado Bend SP Project - Nov 10th and 11th

[rafal kedzierski]

It has been 20 years of Colorado Bend SP Project, and this weekend we are going 
to celebrate - by caving and getting dirty all around - the milestone of the 
project.  By my current flawed count, we have 223 caves in the park and 95 
karst features - which comes out to be about a cave every 20 acres.  So to all 
the past contributors to the project, thanks for all the efforts.  To the 
current and future contributors, we know that a number of caves hasn't been 
found - we will have more than 300 total caves in the park before this project 
is complete.
 
This upcoming weekend (November 10th and 11th) is another Colorado Bend SP trip 
and with the weather being as great as it looks (high of 80, low of 58), will 
be staying at the caver's camp, which is first right behind the sign enouncing 
entry into the park.  Food will be served on Saturday night courtesy of friends 
of park, park itself, and some of us.  So come out and enjoy, and bring 
swimming trunks and a towel just in case,
 
Butch Fralia, Mark Gee, Keith Heuss, and Rafal Kedzierski
 
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RE: [Texascavers] Colorado Bend State Park

[rafal kedzierski]

The weather was beautiful, company was even better, hangovers were bothersome, 
and someone we all know and love ended up with women's nickers on his head, so 
it was a good weekend.  We surveyed about 450 feet in Gorman Creek Crevice in 
the entrance area and new passage and quite a few feet in Mystery Hole.  Gorman 
Creek Crevice will likely exceed a mile so if anyone wants to be famous in 
Texas cartography, this is a place.
 
I will send out a trip report when it's all said and done.
Rafal Kedzierski


List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:38:41 -0700From: sdboyd56@yahoo.comTo: 
Texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: [Texascavers] Colorado Bend State 
ParkAnybody at CBSP this past weekend want to post a trip report for those of 
us who couldn't go? (Had to stay in town and work instead...)Scott


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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP Project, October 13th and 14th...

[rafal kedzierski]

The Colorado Bend State Park project weekend is again up on Come 
helplocate, survey, and produce maps of all the caves on the 5400+ 
acreproperty. By last count, we about 400 caves and karst features inthe park, 
and no doubt many more that still have not been found. Wewill be camping at the 
new cavers' campsite, to the right of themain park road, on the road that 
starts right behind the entrancesign. Weather should be good, it's October in 
Texas:). The plan is to try to survey portions of Gorman Creek Crevice, the 
longest 
cave in the park. Feel free to contact us at c...@maverickgrotto.org, or look 
fordirections at http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html. See youon Friday 
night or Saturday morning Butch Fralia, Mark Gee, Keith Heuss, and the 
writer, Rafal Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Looking for safety oriented talk about caving, powerpoint packaged

[rafal kedzierski]

   I am soon giving a talk to boy scout group who are venturing into caving.  
Looked around the internet for a powerpoint presentation about caving 
generalities, safety, etc. and I was not happy with the results.  I wonder if 
anyone out there has a presentation or photos they have used before that they 
can share with me.   Thanks!!!
 
Rafal Kedzierski
Maverick Grotto
_
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[Texascavers] More cave maps from CBSP Project

[rafal kedzierski]

More surveyors to recognize on the following maps, all drafted by Mark Gee:
 
Swiss Cheese of Anguish - Rafal Kedzierski, Mike Sisson
Upper Cave - Kimberly Dal, Rafal Kedzierski, Ed Spaulding, Kevin Toepke
Middle Cave - Multiple trips: Mica and Justin Fell, Tone Garot, Mark Gee, Ed 
Spaulding
Space Heater Cave - Debbie Blackburn, John Pipes, Brad Smith
Dove Cave - Butch Fralia, Keith Heuss
 
Again, if anyone wants the digital versions of these maps, just email me. For 
20th year anniversary of CBSP Project, Keith Heuss is putting together a book 
on caves and karst of Colorado Bend State Park.  If anyone has any survey 
notes, maps, pictures, or other info on caves and karst in Colorado Bend State 
Park, we would love to get a hold of any karst-related information.  Drop me or 
Keith Heuss (caverke...@yahoo.com) an email, or mail any info to Rafal 
Kedzierski (1211 Lakeshore Dr, Irving, TX 75060), or Keith Heuss (12717 Bullick 
Hollow Dr, Austin, TX 78726).  
Rafal Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend State Park - year of the maps

[rafal kedzierski]

Just wanted to thank all the surveyors and drafters of Colorado Bend State Park 
project.  Over 20 maps were sketched this year, largely due to efforts of Mark 
Gee and Jim Kennedy, some from the old surveys done years ago, some from 
surveys done this year.  Many more caves were surveyed as well.  Just want to 
say your efforts were not forgotten.  These are some of the caves, all drafted 
by Mark Gee:
 
Crystal Crevice - Will Harris, Chris Jaggy, Chris Moore
Blue Ribbon Cave - Aimee Beveridge, Derek Nash, David Turner
Lone Bat II Cave - Randy Brown, Julia Germany, Jim Kennedy
Harvestman Crawl - Derek Nash, Yoan Rappaport, Justin Shaw 
Cute Cave - Rafal Kedzierski, Roger Mercer, RD Millholin
Cave Kavik - Jose Curras, Julia Germany, Jim Kennedy
Cave Julie - Jose Curras, Julia Germany, Jim Kennedy plus Julie Richardson
Scooby Snacks Cave - Mark Gee, Rafal Kedzierski
Spider Snacks Cave - Mark Gee, Rafal Kedzierski
Ankle Biter Cave - Scott Boyd, Julia Germany, Jim Kennedy
Tire Eater Cave - Scott Boyd, Julia Germany, Jim Kennedy
Hissing Bat Cave - multiple trips: Marshall and Mark Gee, Rafal Kedzierski, 
Rebecca O'Daniel, Ryan Rap
 
More are to come.  If anyone wants a copy of these in digital format for 
memories or newsletter covers, please drop me an email, I will be more than 
happy to forward these to you.
 
For 20th year anniversary of CBSP Project, Keith Heuss is putting together a 
book on caves and karst of Colorado Bend State Park.  If anyone has any survey 
notes, maps, pictures, or other info on caves and karst in Colorado Bend State 
Park, we would love to get a hold of any karst-related information.  Drop me or 
Keith Heuss (caverke...@yahoo.com) an email, or mail any info to Rafal 
Kedzierski (1211 Lakeshore Dr, Irving, TX 75060), or Keith Heuss (12717 Bullick 
Hollow Dr, Austin, TX 78726).  This way over a km of Gorman Creek Crevice will 
not have to be resurveyed
 
Cave on,
 
Rafal Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP Project May 12-13th, 2007

[rafal kedzierski]

The Colorado Bend State Park project weekend is up on  Come helplocate, 
survey, and have fun in one (or several) of the caves on the 5400+ 
acreproperty.  By last count, we about 400 caves and karst features inthe park, 
and no doubt many more that still have not been found.  Wewill be camping at 
the new cavers' campsite, to the right of themain park road, on the road that 
starts right behind the entrancesign.  I'm sure that caving, surveying, and all 
sorts of cave-related stuff will take place.   
Grab a swimsuit in case you want to wash off the dirt and cool off in the 
spring-fed pool. Feel free to contact us at c...@maverickgrotto.org, or look 
fordirections at http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html. See youon Friday 
night or Saturday morning Butch Fralia, Mark Gee, Keith Heuss, and the 
writer, Rafal Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend State Park Project, May 12-13th

[rafal kedzierski]

Another Colorado Bend State Park project will happen May 12-13th!!!Come help 
locate, survey, and produce maps of all the caves on the 5400+ acre property.  
By last count, we about 400 caves and karst features inthe park, and no doubt 
many more that still have not been found.  We will be camping at the new 
cavers' campsite, to the right of themain park road, on the road that starts 
right behind the entrance sign.  Last trip we had 40+people attend, and lots of 
trips into caves, so come and join us in getting dirty.  As an incentive on 
this trip, I have some Moscat set aside for the dirtiest caver of the bunch.  
This time of the year, don't forget swimsuit, there is a beautiful swimming 
hole on the creek to wash off the dirt.Feel free to contact us at 
c...@maverickgrotto.org, or look for directions at 
http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html. See youon Friday night or 
Saturday morning Butch Fralia, Mark Gee, Keith Heuss, and the writer, Rafal 
Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend SP Project

[rafal kedzierski]

For all of those who didn't make it this weekend to Colorado Bend SP, we had 
40+ people, many new or first time cavers from SFA or Sam Houston State.  We 
experienced a healthy 2-4 inches of snow on Saturday, which made for a good 
snowball fight and some cool pictures.  The worst part of the weekend for me - 
having to dig out tents from the snow and ice.  The best part of the weekend - 
climbing out of the entrance of Circurina with huge snowflakes falling on me as 
I was getting out - never experienced that in Texas.  To watch a healthy plume 
of steam exploding out of the entrance was memorable. 
Thankfully Saturday night was spent by all in the warm confines of conference 
center and watching "Descent" on DVD.  Surveying, biological collections, and 
good clean (and dirty) caving was done by all, so weekend was a success.
 
Anyone has any pictures they want to share?
Rafal Kedzierski
_
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[Texascavers] Colorado Bend State Park Project, April 7-8th!!!

[rafal kedzierski]

The Colorado Bend State Park project weekend is up on  Due to TSA 
Convention, it's first weekend of the month this time. Come help locate, 
survey, and produce maps of all the caves on the 5400+ acreproperty.  By last 
count, we about 400 caves and karst features inthe park, and no doubt many more 
that still have not been found.  Wewill be camping at the new cavers' campsite, 
to the right of themain park road, on the road that starts right behind the 
entrancesign.  It's primitive campsite, but it's got nice views and a good 
fireplace!!! For the fun of it, we will have a large group of beginners from 
Sam Houston State.  If anyone is interested in survey, Mark will be mapping 
another cave.  And we may end up radiolocating some of the taller domes in the 
longest cave in the park, Gorman Creek Crevice. Feel free to contact us at 
c...@maverickgrotto.org, or look fordirections at 
http://www.maverickgrotto.org/maps/cbsp.html. See youon Friday night or 
Saturday morningButch Fralia, Mark Gee, Keith Heuss, and the writer, Rafal 
Kedzierski
_
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CaveTex: paging Keith Heuss

[rafal kedzierski]

Keith,
 
This is Rafal Kedzierski.  I just need to get in touch with you.  My cell phone number is 214-405-6380.
Rafal


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