Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Sheryl Rieck]

Water, electricity, wear and tear. And you get to see me. Surely that is
worth paying for.


Sheryl Rieck
sheryl.ri...@gmail.com



On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:03 AM Katherine Arens 
wrote:

> Charlie, Parking, space, beer, and ability to swim or float.
> k
>
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
>
> If you don't camp and you don't eat and are there to see old friends what
> exactly are you paying for? I pay of the Texas Caver and am still waiting
> for a copy. But I don't mind. And I have been designated a moocher and jerk.
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Katherine Arens]

Charlie, Parking, space, beer, and ability to swim or float.
k
On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Charles Loving 
mailto:lovingi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you don't camp and you don't eat and are there to see old friends what 
exactly are you paying for? I pay of the Texas Caver and am still waiting for a 
copy. But I don't mind. And I have been designated a moocher and jerk.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 7:59 AM Allan Cobb 
mailto:a...@oztotl.com>> wrote:

I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without 
wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few years. I 
know the problem of people not registering. However, I never would have thrown 
people out for not registering. Is this what the community has devolved into?

There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who pride 
themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see them, at TCR, I 
would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. These are the same people 
who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 fee on TSA projects.

There are also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge financial 
burden due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of who those were. 
All they had to do was ask and I would comp them registration. I get it, I've 
had hard times too. Some of them were too proud to ask. I knew that too. I 
would have NEVER thrown those people out of TCR. They are part of the community.

I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because they 
don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good point but the cost of the meal is 
only a small part of the registration fee. I've had people ask me to have a fee 
that doesn't include the meal. To them, I answered that the more complicated 
registration becomes that harder it is to get people to do it and the easier to 
make mistakes.

That said, here's why you SHOULD register for TCR, TSA Conventions, etc. These 
events require money. We have to pay for the site, we pay for portapotties, we 
pay for many incidentals. If you are one of those people who think you are too 
good to pay or it is a game not to pay, you are basically stealing from other 
cavers. You are directly responsible for raising the price for all of the 
cavers who pay. They costs are fixed for many of these events. The cost is 
divided among those who attend and pay. If you don't pay, your portion of the 
cost, your portion of the cost is passed on to other cavers. If you choose not 
to pay, at least thank all the people who did pay for paying your share as well.

"Throw people out" for not registering, bad idea. Shame them a bit, I'm fine 
with that. I am no longer running TCR so I don't really have any say in how it 
works. In the past, TCR has always been about bringing cavers together, the new 
cavers and us old cavers. TCR has been about friends getting together and 
hanging out. TCR has always been about seeing old friends and making new ones. 
However, if "throw them out" is the spirit of the "new" TCR, perhaps it is time 
to end this long running tradition.

Allan Cobb

Retired TCR Big Cheese and Caver Wrangler


On 8/29/2018 6:23 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
 I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the proper 
identity band but didn't post it.
Old Man Wisdom

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair 
mailto:trog...@cavechat.org>> wrote:
Hi all!

We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the waters 
churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration. I've got a number 
of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to be filled. I'll be there all 
shifts, but I need one other person to help me out with paperwork and such for 
each shift. I also need an outgoing personality to spend some time on Saturday 
wandering to each camp area to make sure everyone has their wristband.

I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you will be 
kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to camp (cash 
or check only this year!)!
I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with registration info for 
those who won't be volunteering, so you know when registration will be open- 
dependent on how many volunteers I can get!

If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate email and I'll 
let you know the shifts I've got still available! My email is 
trog...@cavechat.org


Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive to help.. ;)

Happy caving and even happier volunteering!

-Heather Tucek




--
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
members...@cavetexas.org

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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Charles Loving]

If you don't camp and you don't eat and are there to see old friends what
exactly are you paying for? I pay of the Texas Caver and am still waiting
for a copy. But I don't mind. And I have been designated a moocher and
jerk.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 7:59 AM Allan Cobb  wrote:

> I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without
> wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few
> years. I know the problem of people not registering. However, I never would
> have thrown people out for not registering. Is this what the community has
> devolved into?
>
> There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who
> pride themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see them,
> at TCR, I would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. These are
> the same people who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 fee on TSA
> projects.
>
> There are also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge
> financial burden due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of who
> those were. All they had to do was ask and I would comp them registration.
> I get it, I've had hard times too. Some of them were too proud to ask. I
> knew that too. I would have NEVER thrown those people out of TCR. They are
> part of the community.
>
> I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because
> they don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good point but the cost of the
> meal is only a small part of the registration fee. I've had people ask me
> to have a fee that doesn't include the meal. To them, I answered that the
> more complicated registration becomes that harder it is to get people to do
> it and the easier to make mistakes.
>
> That said, here's why you SHOULD register for TCR, TSA Conventions, etc.
> These events require money. We have to pay for the site, we pay for
> portapotties, we pay for many incidentals. If you are one of those people
> who think you are too good to pay or it is a game not to pay, you are
> basically stealing from other cavers. You are directly responsible for
> raising the price for all of the cavers who pay. They costs are fixed for
> many of these events. The cost is divided among those who attend and pay.
> If you don't pay, your portion of the cost, your portion of the cost is
> passed on to other cavers. If you choose not to pay, at least thank all the
> people who did pay for paying your share as well.
>
> "Throw people out" for not registering, bad idea. Shame them a bit, I'm
> fine with that. I am no longer running TCR so I don't really have any say
> in how it works. In the past, TCR has always been about bringing cavers
> together, the new cavers and us old cavers. TCR has been about friends
> getting together and hanging out. TCR has always been about seeing old
> friends and making new ones. However, if "throw them out" is the spirit of
> the "new" TCR, perhaps it is time to end this long running tradition.
>
> Allan Cobb
>
> Retired TCR Big Cheese and Caver Wrangler
>
>
>
> On 8/29/2018 6:23 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
>
>  I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the
> proper identity band but didn't post it.
> Old Man Wisdom
>
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the waters
>> churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration. I've got a
>> number of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to be filled. I'll be
>> there all shifts, but I need one other person to help me out with paperwork
>> and such for each shift. I also need an outgoing personality to spend some
>> time on Saturday wandering to each camp area to make sure everyone has
>> their wristband.
>>
>> I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you
>> will be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to
>> camp (cash or check only this year!)!
>> I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with registration info
>> for those who won't be volunteering, so you know when registration will be
>> open- dependent on how many volunteers I can get!
>>
>> If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate email
>> and I'll let you know the shifts I've got still available! My email is
>> trog...@cavechat.org
>>
>>
>> Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive to
>> help.. ;)
>>
>> Happy caving and even happier volunteering!
>>
>> -Heather Tucek
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Go find out!*
>> -Heather Tuček
>> TSA Membership Chair
>> NSS 59660
>> (512) 773-1348
>> members...@cavetexas.org
>>
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
>
>
> 

Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[grubbsi]

During the time I ran TCR and when I helped Gil while he was running it I do 
not remember a single instance of anyone being "thrown out" of the TCR, ever. 
There were a number of cooks and cooks helpers who got comped in because they 
were workers on the event. They spent their time doing those things that make 
TCR run and not "hanging out" There were other prominent individuals who 
contributed in vast and underappreciated ways. We showed our gratitude to them 
in other ways. TCR always broke even so it was never about money. If we had 
folks who for what ever reason didnt "register" it wasnt really a big issue. We 
had plenty to do without worrying about that. We tried to have as few rules as 
possible. 

William Russell once remarked that one of the beautiful things about TCR was 
that it is the closest thing to a real working anarchy you can have. It more or 
less runs itself. People know what needs to be done and do it. Cavers are good 
about seeing something that needs doing and they do it with very little 
compunction. Just a little guidance is all. Gil was better at that than I was. 
His advice was "keep you hand lightly on the wheel" let it run itself. This 
generally works fairly well. We tried very hard to keep the event light hearted 
and fun. I have nothing but great compliments for the folks who have organized 
the event for the last few years because they have continued to come up with 
new things like the parade that embellish that tradition. 

I dont think that I can ever fully explain what TCR means to me. I get to see 
friends I have known more than 45 years. Some I see that once or twice a year. 
some I havent seen in decades. I get to see caver kids I watched grow up 
raising their own kids. Couple years ago one of those "kids" said "I bet you 
remember me when I was that little" I did. Caving is a team based adventure 
sport that thrives on camaraderie. TCR is a celebration of those friendships 
and the richness of the many years of memories. 

The cavers I grew up with were also very "non-status" oriented. That is hard to 
explain and I dont see it as strong these days but nobody tried to set up rules 
and make others follow them. Of course there was basic safety and competence. 
You had to get voted in by the grotto member to be a "regular" member. but then 
you could, check out ropes, lead trips ect 

Last year at TCR there was someone who was stalking around the cam being a 
"wristband nazi" who appointed them to that I dont know. They werent having a 
good time, unless hassling folks was their fun. I also know that Registration 
wasnt open a large part of the time. I know folks who had a difficult time 
finding somebody to give their money to. If people are willing to work at 
registration I say let them decide if they want to be there late Friday night / 
Sat morning, ect. If this is a issue then the organizers ( god rest their 
souls) should recruit a larger group to do this. It is one of the most onerous 
tasks of the event and anyone willing to spend their time on it deserves some 
slack. 

TCR doesnt really run itself, there are hundreds of tasks that have to be done. 
A lot of it happens before the event, the hidden part of the iceberg. Everyone 
has ways the help out, some visible, some hidden. We have created a unique 
cavers event word of which has spread all over the country. Let us continue to 
strive to make it the most enjoyable fall weekend you can ever have 
Andy G Grubbs i 


From: "Gill Ediger"  
To: "texascavers"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 10:52:04 AM 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers! 

I agree with Allan & Linda. 

--Ediger 



On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:59 AM, Allan Cobb  wrote: 


I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without 
wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few years. I 
know the problem of people not registering. However, I never would have thrown 
people out for not registering. Is this what the community has devolved into? 
There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who pride 
themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see them, at TCR, I 
would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. These are the same people 
who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 fee on TSA projects. 
There are also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge financial 
burden due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of who those were. 
All they had to do was ask and I would comp them registration. I get it, I've 
had hard times too. Some of them were too proud to ask. I knew that too. I 
would have NEVER thrown those people out of TCR. They are part of the 
community. 
I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because they 
don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good 

Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Gill Ediger]

I agree with Allan & Linda.
--Ediger
 

On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 7:59 AM, Allan Cobb  wrote:
 

  I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without 
wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few years. I 
know the problem of people not registering. However, I never would have thrown 
people out for not registering. Is this what the community has devolved into? 
There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who pride 
themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see them, at TCR, I 
would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. These are the same people 
who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 fee on TSA projects. There are 
also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge financial burden 
due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of who those were. All they 
had to do was ask and I would comp them registration. I get it, I've had hard 
times too. Some of them were too proud to ask. I knew that too. I would have 
NEVER thrown those people out of TCR. They are part of the community.
  I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because they 
don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good point but the cost of the meal is 
only a small part of the registration fee. I've had people ask me to have a fee 
that doesn't include the meal. To them, I answered that the more complicated 
registration becomes that harder it is to get people to do it and the easier to 
make mistakes. That said, here's why you SHOULD register for TCR, TSA 
Conventions, etc. These events require money. We have to pay for the site, we 
pay for portapotties, we pay for many incidentals. If you are one of those 
people who think you are too good to pay or it is a game not to pay, you are 
basically stealing from other cavers. You are directly responsible for raising 
the price for all of the cavers who pay. They costs are fixed for many of these 
events. The cost is divided among those who attend and pay. If you don't pay, 
your portion of the cost, your portion of the cost is passed on to other 
cavers. If you choose not to pay, at least thank all the people who did pay for 
paying your share as well. "Throw people out" for not registering, bad idea. 
Shame them a bit, I'm fine with that. I am no longer running TCR so I don't 
really have any say in how it works. In the past, TCR has always been about 
bringing cavers together, the new cavers and us old cavers. TCR has been about 
friends getting together and hanging out. TCR has always been about seeing old 
friends and making new ones. However, if "throw them out" is the spirit of the 
"new" TCR, perhaps it is time to end this long running tradition.
  Allan Cobb
  Retired TCR Big Cheese and Caver Wrangler
  
  
 On 8/29/2018 6:23 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
  
 
 I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the proper 
identity band but didn't post it.  Old Man Wisdom  
  On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair  
wrote:
  
  Hi all! 
  
  We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the waters 
churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration. I've got a number 
of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to be filled. I'll be there all 
shifts, but I need one other person to help me out with paperwork and such for 
each shift. I also need an outgoing personality to spend some time on Saturday 
wandering to each camp area to make sure everyone has their wristband. 
  I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you will 
be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to camp 
(cash or check only this year!)! 
  I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with registration info for 
those who won't be volunteering, so you know when registration will be open- 
dependent on how many volunteers I can get!
  
  If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate email and 
I'll let you know the shifts I've got still available! My email is 
trog...@cavechat.org 
  
  Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive to help.. ;) 
  Happy caving and even happier volunteering! 
  -Heather Tucek 
  
  
  
 -- 
   Go find out!
 -Heather Tuček
 TSA Membership Chair
 NSS 59660
 (512) 773-1348
 members...@cavetexas.org
  
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  -- 
 Charlie Loving 
 
|  | Virus-free. www.avg.com  |

   
  
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Crash Kennedy]

Allan made some excellent points.  People that attend TCR without paying
are stealing from others, short and simple.  Even the organizers, cooks,
and other volunteers pay.  I pay, and so does my family, and I'm running
the whole circus this year.  Dozens of people work long hours hauling
trailers, running registration, cooking, setting up (and cleaning up) the
mud wrestling pit, organizing Speleolympics events, maintaining of the
sauna area, cleaning and restocking porta-potties, taking care of Vendors
Row, and on and on.  They don't even get a chance to fully enjoy the whole
TCR experience like the non-volunteers do, and still they pay their
registration fees.  We have even come up with several options to make this
even less of a financial burden to attendees, including an Old Timer
discount and a non-banquet option.  We GET that there are still some folks
who are undergoing real financial hardship, and if they come talk to us we
can work something out, as Michael said.  We're not trying to keep anyone
away from TCR, just the opposite.  We want this to be an event for ALL
cavers, young and old (and future!), active and inactive, Texas residents
and former residents.  But it costs money these days to put on the kind of
show that people have come to expect.  We're not in the 70s any more, for
better or worse.

Heather has been doing a great job maintaining the TSA records and handling
registration, usually by herself.  It is unfair for folks to be beating up
on her for doing her job.  If you don't like something, volunteer a while
and see the other side of the situation before offering public criticism.
With all the caving organizations around here (grottos, TSA, TCMA, TSS, and
so forth), it is increasingly difficult to attract good volunteers to
fulfill the necessary roles of officers, board members, and committee
chairs.  And the criticism, which seems more prevalent in today's digital
world, makes those positions even less appealing to potential candidates.
To deviate from the TCR topic just a bit, I have seen a fair bit of
complaining about the recent lack of *The TEXAS CAVER*.  If you want to see
a magazine, submit articles, people!  As for registration, I hope more
folks step up to volunteer for a shift, to spread out the workload so that
everyone gets to enjoy a bit more of TCR.  I'm going to be up to my
eyeballs in crap all weekend long, but I will volunteer for a shift myself
if no one else does.  And there are cookies!  And don't forget to sign the
liability waiver for Paradise Canyon, even if you don't pay.

I look forward to TCR every year, and budget both my time and my money to
be able to participate.  I also support the TCMA fundraising breakfast,
help set up and sell pubs at the TSS bookstore, and attend the TSA and TCMA
meetings.  And I still have fun at the wine tasting, parade, contests, and
hot tub.  I get a lot out of TCR and the Texas caving community in general,
and feel that I am giving something back so that others can also enjoy
those experiences.  Cavers are usually pretty generous folks, so hopefully
this discussion about selfish, non paying TCR attendees is a bunch of
rhetoric about a non-issue.

Jim "Crash" Kennedy
current TCR ringmaster and cat herder
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Nancy Weaver]

boy how times change.  I loved the really old days of lets throw a party, pitch 
in where you can with money or help.  thanks to the thoughtful previous 
registrars who quietly made decisions based on something other than cash.  
Nancy

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 8:28 AM, Michael Cicherski  wrote:
> 
> Well written! 
> 
> Having run Registration, by myself for a number of years,  I can quietly 
> report that I have allowed more than a few to attend TCR who could not afford 
> it. Most of the time it was a quiet conversation with someone who had fallen 
> on hard times and just needed a little bit of a break.
> 
> I never made a big deal of it and never reported it on the books.
> 
> Oh, there were the normal goofballs who complained about having to pay full 
> amount, but I ignored them and after they ran out of hot air they paid the 
> proper fees.
> 
> Hope all is well,
> 
> Michael
> 
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:59 AM, Allan Cobb  > wrote:
> 
>> I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without 
>> wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few 
>> years. I know the problem of people not registering. However, I never would 
>> have thrown people out for not registering. Is this what the community has 
>> devolved into?
>> 
>> There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who pride 
>> themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see them, at 
>> TCR, I would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. These are the 
>> same people who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 fee on TSA 
>> projects.
>> 
>> There are also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge 
>> financial burden due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of who 
>> those were. All they had to do was ask and I would comp them registration. I 
>> get it, I've had hard times too. Some of them were too proud to ask. I knew 
>> that too. I would have NEVER thrown those people out of TCR. They are part 
>> of the community.
>> I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because they 
>> don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good point but the cost of the meal 
>> is only a small part of the registration fee. I've had people ask me to have 
>> a fee that doesn't include the meal. To them, I answered that the more 
>> complicated registration becomes that harder it is to get people to do it 
>> and the easier to make mistakes.
>> 
>> That said, here's why you SHOULD register for TCR, TSA Conventions, etc. 
>> These events require money. We have to pay for the site, we pay for 
>> portapotties, we pay for many incidentals. If you are one of those people 
>> who think you are too good to pay or it is a game not to pay, you are 
>> basically stealing from other cavers. You are directly responsible for 
>> raising the price for all of the cavers who pay. They costs are fixed for 
>> many of these events. The cost is divided among those who attend and pay. If 
>> you don't pay, your portion of the cost, your portion of the cost is passed 
>> on to other cavers. If you choose not to pay, at least thank all the people 
>> who did pay for paying your share as well.
>> 
>> "Throw people out" for not registering, bad idea. Shame them a bit, I'm fine 
>> with that. I am no longer running TCR so I don't really have any say in how 
>> it works. In the past, TCR has always been about bringing cavers together, 
>> the new cavers and us old cavers. TCR has been about friends getting 
>> together and hanging out. TCR has always been about seeing old friends and 
>> making new ones. However, if "throw them out" is the spirit of the "new" 
>> TCR, perhaps it is time to end this long running tradition.
>> Allan Cobb
>> Retired TCR Big Cheese and Caver Wrangler
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/29/2018 6:23 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
>>>  I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the proper 
>>> identity band but didn't post it. 
>>> Old Man Wisdom
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair >> > wrote:
>>> Hi all! 
>>> 
>>> We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the waters 
>>> churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration. I've got a 
>>> number of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to be filled. I'll be 
>>> there all shifts, but I need one other person to help me out with paperwork 
>>> and such for each shift. I also need an outgoing personality to spend some 
>>> time on Saturday wandering to each camp area to make sure everyone has 
>>> their wristband.
>>> 
>>> I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you will 
>>> be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to camp 
>>> (cash or check only this year!)! 
>>> I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with registration info 
>>> for those who won't be volunteering, so you know when registration will be 
>>> 

Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Michael Cicherski]

Well written! 

Having run Registration, by myself for a number of years,  I can quietly report 
that I have allowed more than a few to attend TCR who could not afford it. Most 
of the time it was a quiet conversation with someone who had fallen on hard 
times and just needed a little bit of a break.

I never made a big deal of it and never reported it on the books.

Oh, there were the normal goofballs who complained about having to pay full 
amount, but I ignored them and after they ran out of hot air they paid the 
proper fees.

Hope all is well,

Michael

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:59 AM, Allan Cobb  wrote:
> 
> I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without 
> wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few years. 
> I know the problem of people not registering. However, I never would have 
> thrown people out for not registering. Is this what the community has 
> devolved into?
> 
> There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who pride 
> themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see them, at TCR, 
> I would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. These are the same 
> people who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 fee on TSA projects.
> 
> There are also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge 
> financial burden due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of who 
> those were. All they had to do was ask and I would comp them registration. I 
> get it, I've had hard times too. Some of them were too proud to ask. I knew 
> that too. I would have NEVER thrown those people out of TCR. They are part of 
> the community.
> I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because they 
> don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good point but the cost of the meal 
> is only a small part of the registration fee. I've had people ask me to have 
> a fee that doesn't include the meal. To them, I answered that the more 
> complicated registration becomes that harder it is to get people to do it and 
> the easier to make mistakes.
> 
> That said, here's why you SHOULD register for TCR, TSA Conventions, etc. 
> These events require money. We have to pay for the site, we pay for 
> portapotties, we pay for many incidentals. If you are one of those people who 
> think you are too good to pay or it is a game not to pay, you are basically 
> stealing from other cavers. You are directly responsible for raising the 
> price for all of the cavers who pay. They costs are fixed for many of these 
> events. The cost is divided among those who attend and pay. If you don't pay, 
> your portion of the cost, your portion of the cost is passed on to other 
> cavers. If you choose not to pay, at least thank all the people who did pay 
> for paying your share as well.
> 
> "Throw people out" for not registering, bad idea. Shame them a bit, I'm fine 
> with that. I am no longer running TCR so I don't really have any say in how 
> it works. In the past, TCR has always been about bringing cavers together, 
> the new cavers and us old cavers. TCR has been about friends getting together 
> and hanging out. TCR has always been about seeing old friends and making new 
> ones. However, if "throw them out" is the spirit of the "new" TCR, perhaps it 
> is time to end this long running tradition.
> Allan Cobb
> Retired TCR Big Cheese and Caver Wrangler
> 
> 
>> On 8/29/2018 6:23 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
>>  I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the proper 
>> identity band but didn't post it. 
>> Old Man Wisdom
>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi all! 
>>> 
>>> We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the waters 
>>> churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration. I've got a 
>>> number of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to be filled. I'll be 
>>> there all shifts, but I need one other person to help me out with paperwork 
>>> and such for each shift. I also need an outgoing personality to spend some 
>>> time on Saturday wandering to each camp area to make sure everyone has 
>>> their wristband.
>>> 
>>> I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you will 
>>> be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to camp 
>>> (cash or check only this year!)! 
>>> I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with registration info 
>>> for those who won't be volunteering, so you know when registration will be 
>>> open- dependent on how many volunteers I can get!
>>> 
>>> If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate email and 
>>> I'll let you know the shifts I've got still available! My email is 
>>> trog...@cavechat.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive to help.. 
>>> ;)
>>> 
>>> Happy caving and even happier volunteering!
>>> 
>>> -Heather Tucek
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Go 

Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Allan Cobb]

I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without 
wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few 
years. I know the problem of people not registering. However, I never 
would have thrown people out for not registering. Is this what the 
community has devolved into?


There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who 
pride themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see 
them, at TCR, I would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. 
These are the same people who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 
fee on TSA projects.


There are also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge 
financial burden due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of 
who those were. All they had to do was ask and I would comp them 
registration. I get it, I've had hard times too. Some of them were too 
proud to ask. I knew that too. I would have NEVER thrown those people 
out of TCR. They are part of the community.


I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because 
they don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good point but the cost of 
the meal is only a small part of the registration fee. I've had people 
ask me to have a fee that doesn't include the meal. To them, I answered 
that the more complicated registration becomes that harder it is to get 
people to do it and the easier to make mistakes.


That said, here's why you SHOULD register for TCR, TSA Conventions, etc. 
These events require money. We have to pay for the site, we pay for 
portapotties, we pay for many incidentals. If you are one of those 
people who think you are too good to pay or it is a game not to pay, you 
are basically stealing from other cavers. You are directly responsible 
for raising the price for all of the cavers who pay. They costs are 
fixed for many of these events. The cost is divided among those who 
attend and pay. If you don't pay, your portion of the cost, your portion 
of the cost is passed on to other cavers. If you choose not to pay, at 
least thank all the people who did pay for paying your share as well.


"Throw people out" for not registering, bad idea. Shame them a bit, I'm 
fine with that. I am no longer running TCR so I don't really have any 
say in how it works. In the past, TCR has always been about bringing 
cavers together, the new cavers and us old cavers. TCR has been about 
friends getting together and hanging out. TCR has always been about 
seeing old friends and making new ones. However, if "throw them out" is 
the spirit of the "new" TCR, perhaps it is time to end this long running 
tradition.


Allan Cobb

Retired TCR Big Cheese and Caver Wrangler



On 8/29/2018 6:23 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
 I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the 
proper identity band but didn't post it.

Old Man Wisdom

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair 
mailto:trog...@cavechat.org>> wrote:


Hi all!

We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the
waters churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration.
I've got a number of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to
be filled. I'll be there all shifts, but I need one other person
to help me out with paperwork and such for each shift. I also need
an outgoing personality to spend some time on Saturday wandering
to each camp area to make sure everyone has their wristband.

I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year,
you will be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon
as you get to camp (cash or check only this year!)!
I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with
registration info for those who won't be volunteering, so you know
when registration will be open- dependent on how many volunteers I
can get!

If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate
email and I'll let you know the shifts I've got still available!
My email is trog...@cavechat.org 


Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive
to help.. ;)

Happy caving and even happier volunteering!

-Heather Tucek




-- 
*Go find out!*

-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
members...@cavetexas.org 

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	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 

Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Linda Palit]

“I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you
will be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to
camp (cash or check only this year!)!”

Really? i have seen people go to registration half a dozen times before
catching somebody to take their money.
Better start registration early so the people who arrive and help set up
can register. And start looking for volunteers to be the Wrist Band Nazi
Patrol !

I remember TCR days when if a family or person had a difficulty situation
they were given reduced registration.
I adamantly believe all should pay and have called people out who did not.
But perhaps consider practicality of demand, tone and result you really
want vs reaction you illicit as you post about throwing people out.

it takes a lot of volunteer labor and goodwill to make TCR happen. I am
happy to help with registration for a few hours.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:24 AM Charles Loving  wrote:

>  I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the
> proper identity band but didn't post it.
> Old Man Wisdom
>
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the waters
>> churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration. I've got a
>> number of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to be filled. I'll be
>> there all shifts, but I need one other person to help me out with paperwork
>> and such for each shift. I also need an outgoing personality to spend some
>> time on Saturday wandering to each camp area to make sure everyone has
>> their wristband.
>>
>> I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you
>> will be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to
>> camp (cash or check only this year!)!
>> I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with registration info
>> for those who won't be volunteering, so you know when registration will be
>> open- dependent on how many volunteers I can get!
>>
>> If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate email
>> and I'll let you know the shifts I've got still available! My email is
>> trog...@cavechat.org
>>
>>
>> Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive to
>> help.. ;)
>>
>> Happy caving and even happier volunteering!
>>
>> -Heather Tucek
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Go find out!*
>> -Heather Tuček
>> TSA Membership Chair
>> NSS 59660
>> (512) 773-1348
>> members...@cavetexas.org
>>
>> ___
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
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[Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[TSA Membership Chair]

Hi all!

We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the waters
churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration. I've got a
number of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to be filled. I'll be
there all shifts, but I need one other person to help me out with paperwork
and such for each shift. I also need an outgoing personality to spend some
time on Saturday wandering to each camp area to make sure everyone has
their wristband.

I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year, you will
be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon as you get to camp
(cash or check only this year!)!
I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with registration info
for those who won't be volunteering, so you know when registration will be
open- dependent on how many volunteers I can get!

If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate email and
I'll let you know the shifts I've got still available! My email is
trog...@cavechat.org


Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive to help..
;)

Happy caving and even happier volunteering!

-Heather Tucek




-- 
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
members...@cavetexas.org
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