Re: [Therion] Request: SHP export improvements

[Xavier Robert]

Hi Andrew,

No, we haven’t shared it for now as the style sheet is still in development and 
not clean enough for sharing. This is in my Todo list for some months to 
finalize this style sheet to share it to the community ! For sure, we will 
inform the Therion list users as soon this is available !

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 26 sept. 2024 à 23:20, Andrew Atkinson  a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> On 17/09/2024 12:24, Xavier Robert wrote:
>> For that, we also are developing a style sheet to reproduce the Therion 
>> symbology inside QGIS.
> 
> This would be interesting to see, have you shared it anywhere? Although I do 
> not know if my knowledge of GIS is good enough to use it. I've been playing 
> with QGIS.
> 
> I also notice that geospatial PDF (PDF2.0) exists. I don't think this is part 
> of Therion, or if it is I cannot get it to work. Seems to have the surveys at 
> whatever 0,0 of the coordinate system I set.
> It would be good if the georeferencing part of PDF could be enabled. No idea 
> how hard that would be, but it would be an easy way for the end user to be 
> able to add plans to GIS and the like.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geospatial_PDF
> 
> It appears hat this gets confused with
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoPDF
> 
> Which I cannot say surprises me!
> 
> Andrew
> 
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[Therion] Suggestion to add new flags for survey shots?

[Xavier Robert]

Dear all,

Some weeks ago, I commented the issue « 
https://github.com/therion/therion/issues/571 
 ( Suggestion to add new flags 
for survey shots) » on Github. 
So far, I have not seen any answers, so I forward it there in case of someone 
is interested in and/or is able to update Therion with such a new feature:

I do not know if this is easy to code or not, but I completely agree with 
cctrunz, it would be very usefull also for me to add new flags for survey 
shots. I am interesting in "artificial", but also in something like "active 
meander"/"active gallery", "active phreatic gallery", "fossil phreatic 
gallery", etc.

One suggestion could be that somewhere (in centerline blocks? In a config file 
(better?)?), the Therion user could define its proper shot flags names with a 
syntax like:
def_flags "MyNewFlag" "MNF" where "MyNewFlag" is the name of the flag use in 
the command flags, and MNF correspond to the 3-letters string associated to 
this flag in the sql database (and in the ESRI/shp export?).

That means that some cases have to be considered:
• if the new flag definition exists and is used in centerline(s) --> 
update the database accordingly
• if the new flag definition does not exist and a new flag is used in a 
centerline: 1) raise a warning during the compilation indicating the presence 
of an undefined flag, and 2) update the shot database by adding a flag_name by 
default as "udf" (undefined?).

I will be very interested in that feature for large and long-lived network 
analysis purposes (i.e. extract only a certain type of conduit for instance). I 
am sure it will strongly extend the possibilities of Therion survey database 
post-analysis.

Thanks a lot,

Cheers

Xavier

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[Therion] Request: SHP export improvements

[Xavier Robert]

Dear all,

I am mostly writing to Therion developers, as I am not able to propose a valid 
code modification myself.

For a large project (Gouffre Jean-Bernard + Gouffre Mirolda, France), we are 
exporting the surveys as ESRI shapefiles to build a GIS. For that, we also are 
developing a style sheet to reproduce the Therion symbology inside QGIS. It 
permits us to have the complete survey database on our phones/tablets in the 
field as a GIS project (we are currently using Mergin Maps app with a custom 
server). For those interested in, please, see pages 89 - 95 of the report 
https://groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2023_Rapport_Expe.pdf
 

 (in French).

But, there are some points that quite problematics/time consuming, and that may 
(?) be improved directly in Therion with the ESRI/shp export command:
for the shapefile points2d.shp, the Therion feature corresponding to the « 
-value » option is not exported. For us, this is a problem to render the point 
« height », as the value of the height does not exists in the shp —> If in a 
next Therion release the -value option could be added to the attribut table of 
the point2d.shp, it would be great!
in our GIS, we want to get the altitude information for at least station 
points. This information is not included in the attribut tables (points2d.shp 
and stations3d.shp). To get it, we have to reprocess the station3d.shp with a 
python script to add the altitude value in the attribut table after each new 
Therion compilation —> Is it possible to add the station altitude value in the 
attribut table directly from Therion shp export? 
The lines and areas shapefiles produced by Therion export are not limited to 
the inside of the cave (i.e. inside of the outline), even if they have the 
-clip on option. We need to use a custom Python script to cut the lines and 
areas with the outline shapefile as a mask, and this is absolutely not tolerant 
even for a very minor topologic error. —> Is it possible to modify the ESRI/shp 
exportation function from Therion to natively masked the lines and areas that 
have the -clip on option and that are outside of the cave outline ?

Is that possible to implement these features in a future Therion release?
Thanks a lot,

Cheers,

Xavier


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Re: [Therion] Calibrating surface map

[Xavier Robert]

Hi all,

I have a similar behavior, for some of my huge lox files, the map texture does 
not show on the DEM when loaded. But if I push the Ω-button « entrances », the 
overlay loads. They open OK with Caveview.

If it is needed to find the bug, I am running Therion and Loch on a MacOS 
12.6.9, and I have installed Therion and Loch from sources:
$ therion  --version
therion 6.1.7+dev (compiled on 2023-06-02)
  - using Proj 9.3.1, compiled against 9.2.1
Loch version 6.1.7 (compiled on 2023-06-02)

Cheers

Xavier



> Le 14 janv. 2024 à 00:57, Andrey via Therion  a écrit :
> 
> Hello Jonny,
>  
> Thanks for the hint! 
>  
> I’ve tried to open few old models which were surely working and half of them 
> did not show any map texture.
>  
> Trying to open the same models on other computer proved that they all work 
> fine.
> There must be something wrong with graphics on my laptop.  Will try updating 
> drivers etc.
>  
> Cheers,
> Andrey
>  
> Суббота, 13 января 2024, 18:36 UTC от Jonny Prouty :
>  
> Hello Andrey,
>  
> Are you able to see _any_ bitmap overlays in other loch models? I had an 
> issue long ago where an issue with my video card caused textures to load 
> incorrectly or not at all. 
>  
> Also, in the scene settings options in loch, do you have it set to actually 
> show the bitmap overlay?
>  
> Cheers,
> Jonny
>  
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 5:22PM Andrey via Therion  > wrote:
> Dear Therion users,
>  
> I am struggling to make a 3D model with terrain overlaid by a raster map.
>  
> Everything is done according to the Thbook however  Loch is only showing me a 
> semi-transparent grid without any map overlay.   
>  
> Here is what I put into my Surface.th file:
>  
> surface
> cs epsg:32637 #UTM zone 37N Datum WGS84
>  
> bitmap Khipsta_DEM_utm.jpg [0 0 634154.048728 4787812.294106 13345 10428 
> 642161.048728 4794069.094106] # 0 0 - SW corner
>  
> grid-units meter
> grid 634148.414 4787799.503 10 10 803 628  # x lower leftt, y lower left SW
> 1088.598 1088.548 1088.4978 1088.4384 1088.3688 1089.3929 1090.4301 1091.0236 
> 1089.8979 1088.7723 1087.3954 1085.6592 1083.9077 1080.9875 1077.3958 
> 1073.8142 1065.2386 1055.7455 1046.4127 1039.4907 1032.5994 1025.662 1018.52 
> 1011.3781 1004.0082 996.3887 988.7744 982.0675 975.7867 969…….
> --
>  
> The corner point coords for the image:
>   File "Khipsta_DEM_utm.jpg"
>   Type "RASTER"
>   (634154.048728, 4794069.094106) (0, 0) Label "NW",
>   (634154.048728, 4787812.294106) (0, 10428) Label "SW",
>   (642161.048728, 4794069.094106) (13345, 0) Label "NE",
>   (642161.048728, 4787812.294106) (13345, 10428) Label "SE"
>   CoordSys Earth Projection 8, 104, "m", 39, 0, 0.9996, 50, 0
>   Units "m"
>  
> If I comment ‘bitmap’ line the .lox file will be a lot smaller and vice versa 
> if uncommented so I assume that overlay is being written into .lox
>  
> Could this be due to the .jpg file size which is 10.5Mb?  
>  
> I was able to make 3D models with terrain overlay in the past but image size 
> was under 10Mb.
>  
> Many thanks,
> Andrey
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> --
> Kind regards,
> Andrey
>  
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>  
> --
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>  
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Re: [Therion] Mac : Xtherion problems

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

I also have the same issues than Martin. I am presently using Therion 6.1.7+dev 
(compiled on 2023-06-02), on Mac OS 12.6.9 (Intel). If I good remember, I have 
this problem since v 6.1.0.

I am not using shortkeys, so I cannot add info on that problem.

But for the topic of freezing, it appends each time we use the right panel 
Points, Lines, Ares, Scraps,… and we want to change
the type of a line, point or area inside a scrap,
or the projection of a scrap in the scrap definition
or the line number where we want to move an object

To quit the freezing mode, I have to clic outside of XTherion, on another 
opened software.

For most cases, I use the right clic to avoid the freezing of the software, but 
for areas or scraps or u:my_object changes, I have no choices than to freeze 
the software.

Cheers,

Xavier


> Le 21 oct. 2023 à 10:58, Martin Kern  a écrit :
> 
> Hi mac users,
> 
> 
> Do the Xtherion shortcuts work on your mac? Not on mine and it’s really 
> annoying !
> My Xtherion interface also has freeze problems when I click on the right 
> pannel. I need to click on a other window to continue to work. So I use the 
> right click options but it's not always the most convenient.
> 
> Does anyone have a solution to these problems?
> 
> 
> Thank’s,
> Martin
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[Therion] shapefiles and encodings...

[Xavier Robert]

Hi all,

I have an other question about shapefiles produced by Therion.

In my language (french), we are using accentuated characters. For that,  In 
Therion :
all my files begin with ‘encoding utf-8’. 
encoding-default and encoding-sql in therion.ini are set up tp UTF-8 (in 
/usr/local/etc and $HOME) (but therion --print-init-file still gives ASCII as 
encodings…) 
I am exporting shapefiles with the line : export map -proj plan -fmt esri -o 
MyOutput -layout my_layout -enc UTF-8

When I load the point2d.shp in QGis, QGis tells me that the encoding of the 
shapefile is utf-8.
But, when I edit the attribut table, in the _TEXT field, I still have strange 
signs in place of the accentuated characters. For instance, I do not read « 
Vers S. Chatière », but 'Vers S. Chatière’.

Does someone have an idea to correct this behavior and get the right encoding ? 

Cheers,

Xavier


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[Therion] Therion shp exports

[Xavier Robert]

Hi all,

A friend and me are presently working on shp files exported by Therion to 
produce a GIS database usable through Android or iOS devices to be used 
directly on the field.

We begin to have several points/problems/suggestions :
In the station3d.shp, no altitude/depth are natively in the attribute table. 
Could is be possible to add it directly when exporting with Therion ?
In the shapefile points2d.shp :
in the point « continuation », all the attr are added to the attribute table, 
but the option -text is not. I suppose this is a bug, could it be add, please ?
In the point « altitude », the value is not in the attribute table. I could add 
it with a post-process script, by it would be great if this is already done 
directly by Therion during export ! Is that possible ?
In the point « Height », the value give in « -value » option is not written in 
the attribute table. Is it possible to add it during Therion export ?
For all the point, the points, the scale option value is also absent from the 
attribute table. Is it also possible to add it during Therion export ?
Also, to have a clean GIS working map, we need to post-process areas and lines 
to cut most of them with the outline, just to render what is inside the 
outline. I do not know if this is possible or not to do it natively inside 
Therion, if yes, it could be great. Otherwise, I will share my script for those 
interested in.

Also, we are working on a QGIS style environnement with Therion symbology, I 
will share it when it will be ready !

Cheers,

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Re: [Therion] Export survey data to kml including LRUD data?

[Xavier Robert]

Hi Torsten,

In your « export » command, use the option «  -enable" + arg (see ThBook).
For instance, I use :  -enable all

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 7 oct. 2022 à 08:28, Torsten Schnitter  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi all
>  
> Is it possible to export a kml file from the survey data including the LRUD 
> data?
>  
> I use this code to get a kml file which is only the survey line then: 
>export model -fmt kml -o filename.kml
> But what I want to get is a kml like the xvi file where you have not only the 
> line plot but also the left and right messurements. So you can see better the 
> dimension of the cave passage. 
> This is the xvi export from survey data with LRUD and I want to get a similar 
> output as a kml file:
> 
>  
> I know once you have drawn the the walls for the cave map you can export this 
> map to a kml file. 
> But I want to get a kml file with LRUD just from the survey data (without 
> drawn any line for a map).
>  
> Thanks for your help. 
> Cheers, Torsten
>   
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Re: [Therion] Export centerline and/or stations to SHP without th2 files

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

I never focussed on that but :
If i do not mistake, you have the info of the altitude of each station in the 
sql database of the cave/system you may export. You may need to use some sql 
and/python queries to extract what you want.
I am sure this is quite easy to compute, the last version of CaveView 
(https://aardgoose.github.io/CaveView.js/) is indicating that nicely. If your 
aim is to get the depth from the surface for only few points, you may tried tu 
use CaveView (Juste open a web page that is also using a CaveView Viewer, and 
then drag and grad your .lox file in the 3D viewer panel).

Cheers

Xavier

> Le 18 nov. 2021 à 15:11, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com⁩> a écrit :
> 
> Thanks Xavier,
> it worked!
> 
> So , after converting the KML to SHP I have a polyline of the cave centerline 
> & spalyes. 
> What I'm aiming for, are the stations with the absolute altitude.
> If I manage to get that, then I can calculate the relative depth of each 
> station from the surface.
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 2:31 PM Xavier Robert 
>  <mailto:xavier.rob...@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> For shp, I never tried.
> 
> For kml, I export the centerline + splays by exporting the model, not the 
> map. For instance :
> export model -fmt kml -o Outputs/MyCave.kml
> 
> Hope it helps,
> 
> Xav
> 
> > Le 18 nov. 2021 à 12:08, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com 
> > <mailto:omri...@gmail.com>⁩> a écrit :
> > 
> > 
> > Hi everyone,
> > I have a survey with coordinates at the first station but I don't use th2 
> > files.
> > When I export to loch file, It works perfect, I can see the model in the 
> > correct place together with the DEM and surface image.
> > When I try to export to SHP or kml I get empty layers because I don't use 
> > th2 files.
> > What I don't understand is why the centerline / splayes / stations layers 
> > are empty as well.
> > 
> > Is there a way to export to SHP / kml only the data from the th file?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > -- 
> > Omri
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> 
> -- 
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> עמרי גסטר
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Re: [Therion] Export centerline and/or stations to SHP without th2 files

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

For shp, I never tried.

For kml, I export the centerline + splays by exporting the model, not the map. 
For instance :
export model -fmt kml -o Outputs/MyCave.kml

Hope it helps,

Xav

> Le 18 nov. 2021 à 12:08, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com⁩> a écrit :
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> I have a survey with coordinates at the first station but I don't use th2 
> files.
> When I export to loch file, It works perfect, I can see the model in the 
> correct place together with the DEM and surface image.
> When I try to export to SHP or kml I get empty layers because I don't use th2 
> files.
> What I don't understand is why the centerline / splayes / stations layers are 
> empty as well.
> 
> Is there a way to export to SHP / kml only the data from the th file?
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> Omri
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Re: [Therion] Presenting Mapiah, a multi-platform, more friendly, modern and performant graphical interface for Therion

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Just for information :

I downloaded the .AppImage to install it on my MacOs 10.14. But I get this 
error :
« 09:02:31 [robert...@ist-158.home ~/Downloads]$ ./Mapiah-x86_64.AppImage 
-bash: ./Mapiah-x86_64.AppImage: cannot execute binary file »

I made it executable, so this is not the problem.

a « uname -a » give me  « Darwin ist-158.home 18.7.0 Darwin Kernel Version 
18.7.0: Tue Jun 22 19:37:08 PDT 2021; root:xnu-4903.278.70~1/RELEASE_X86_64 
x86_64 ».

If you need further info, do not hesitate to ask !

Cheers,

Xavier



> Le 15 nov. 2021 à 09:05, Andrew Atkinson  a écrit :
> 
> XTherion has gone a long way since I started using it many years ago, but it 
> does still have lot that could be improved, I'll watch with interest.
> 
> On Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS the appimage gives the following error
> 
> /tmp/.mount_MapiahDdZUik/AppRun.wrapped: error while loading shared 
> libraries: libOpenGL.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or 
> directory
> 
> 
> I was only having a quick look, this makes it a bigging job, so have not 
> looked further into this
> 
> thanks
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On 15/11/2021 03:55, Bruce Mutton wrote:
>> Interesting idea.
>> 1.   I can confirm it installs OK in Windows.
>> 2.   It does install by default in my data folder, which seems undesirable.
>> 3.   It opened a th2 file, but did not show the background image (PocketTopo 
>> xvi)
>> 4.   ‘Save th2 As’ wanted to save in the install folder, and not in the 
>> folder of the opened file.
>> 5.   There is no ‘Save’ button.
>> 6.   Comparing the saved file with the original file results in significant 
>> change, although mostly just chopping decimal places (probably to something 
>> more reasonable).
>> 7.   Object ids are dropped (see red mark above)
>> 8.   The th2 file when opened with XTherion has the background image offset 
>> form the scrap that were drawn over it.
>>  Apart from point 1 above, my other points are not so relevant at this stage.
>> I am quite happy with XTherion, but acknowledge that a better interface and 
>> functionality could become compelling quite easily.
>> I will watch with interest.
>>  Bruce
>>  -Original Message-
>> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Rodrigo Severo via 
>> Therion
>> Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 12:43
>> To: therion 
>> Cc: r...@protonmail.com
>> Subject: [Therion] Presenting Mapiah, a multi-platform, more friendly, 
>> modern and performant graphical interface for Therion
>>  Presenting Mapiah.
>>  Mapiah is my take on a multi-platform, more friendly, modern and performant 
>> graphical interface for Therion. It's written in C++/Qt. It aims to be as 
>> compatible as practical and possible with XTherion.
>>  This is the "proof-of-concept" release.
>>  It's source code and it's releases files can be found at the projects home 
>> at SourceForge:   
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/mapiah/
>>  Please let me know what you think about it, if it has any future, if you 
>> want to help.
>> 
>> Regards,
>>  Rodrigo Severo
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Re: [Therion] 3D viewer CaveView

[Xavier Robert]

Hi all,

I am also using it, not for my own use, but to provide on the web a 3D view of 
caves systems we are exploring. If you are interested, you may find it there 
(in French) : 
https://www.groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/explorations/topographies-3d/ 

The most interesting is probably the Jean-Bernard 3D (just be patient to load 
it…) : 
https://www.groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/wp-content/themes/custom_theme/3d/JB.html 

 
By default, walls are on, but it may be ugly, do not hesitate to set them off.

By the way, I agree with you Tarquin, the tool I really miss in Loch, this is a 
way to measure 
a distance (horizontal, vertical and straight line) between stations of the 
same cave, or between different caves.

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 1 août 2021 à 00:04, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion  
> a écrit :
> 
> On 31/07/2021 09:43, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> OpenSource 3D viewer for Therion, Survex and Compass 3D models, where
>> you may view your remote files (Settings/File).
> 
> Stunning! I don't have a big enough data set to see how well it performs
> with big systems, but it works great with my surveys.
> 
> (Note, to use it, you need to disable mouse gestures in any browser that
> supports them. Eg. Vivaldi or Opera. Otherwise all the right mouse
> movements can have bad side effects.)
> 
> I know that personally, I will always prefer a desktop application
> (though it could easily work as a stand-alone Chromium application), but
> it's great to have access to it in places where people cannot install
> the full application. It's also great to see so many extra options that
> are not available in the Loch desktop Lox viewer. Very cool indeed!
> 
> For example, I would love to be able to show splays instead of tubes in
> Loch. And switch to Aven controls.
> 
> My wishlist for Loch would also include:
> * More keyboard shortcuts like Aven, so you could switch back and
> forward (animated) between Plan and Elevation like Aven's P and L - I
> use this all the time to help identify specific points. And press NESW
> to rotate to compass directions.
> * Automatic rotation like Aven's Enter and Space.
> * Rotate *only* without zooming, and zooming *only* without rotating
> (Aven does these separately based on which direction you move first,
> Loch does not, which is very frustrating).
> * Measuring distances between stations/splays like Aven can.

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Re: [Therion] Symbol-hide and user defined symbols ?

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Thanks Beni… I haven’t seen that this issue was already raised, I will wait for 
a fix ;-) 

Indeed, I am using quite a lot of user symbols (point/line/area), and I do not 
want to hide them all !

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 9 mars 2021 à 12:00, Benedikt Hallinger  a écrit :
> 
> See here: https://github.com/therion/therion/issues/239
> 
> Am 2021-03-09 11:41, schrieb Xavier Robert:
>> Hello,
>> For my Therion’s projects, I wrote a global config file (Config.thc)
>> where I defined all the user defined symbols. In my thconfigs, I call
>> this config file at the beginning of the file with input config.thc.
>> In the layouts, I call the layouts of the config.thc that I want to
>> use with for instance copy drawingconfig.
>> In one of my thconfig, I would like to hide some of these symbols that
>> I have defined in the config file and drawn in a survey. For that, I
>> used in a layout, for instance, symbol-hide point u:symbol_plan (in my
>> config.thc in the layout drawingconfig, I defined the point
>> p_u_symbol_plan as proposed by Juraj Halama).
>> When I compile (with c43b32a), it crashes with this error : -- unknown
>> symbol specification -- point u:symbol_plan
>> Is it because symbol-hide cannot take in account user defined symbols
>> ?
>> Is it because I misunderstood the syntax of this command for user
>> defined symbols ?
>> Is-it a bug ?
>> Cheers,
>> Xavier
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[Therion] Symbol-hide and user defined symbols ?

[Xavier Robert]

Hello,

For my Therion’s projects, I wrote a global config file (Config.thc) where I 
defined all the user defined symbols. In my thconfigs, I call this config file 
at the beginning of the file with input config.thc. In the layouts, I call the 
layouts of the config.thc that I want to use with for instance copy 
drawingconfig.

In one of my thconfig, I would like to hide some of these symbols that I have 
defined in the config file and drawn in a survey. For that, I used in a layout, 
for instance, symbol-hide point u:symbol_plan (in my config.thc in the layout 
drawingconfig, I defined the point p_u_symbol_plan as proposed by Juraj Halama).

When I compile (with c43b32a), it crashes with this error : -- unknown symbol 
specification -- point u:symbol_plan

Is it because symbol-hide cannot take in account user defined symbols ?
Is it because I misunderstood the syntax of this command for user defined 
symbols ?
Is-it a bug ? 

Cheers,

Xavier

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Re: [Therion] Splays appearing when not selected

[Xavier Robert]

Hi Stacho,

Thanks for your answer ! I tried to compile the map with your code, it works 
well, all the un-surveyed scrap is at the altitude of the referenced station.

Otherwise, Yes, my map is composed of several scraps, but the un-surveyed part 
is a single scrap.

And if you want to test and play with that issue, let me know, I can send you 
my working folder with all the source files.

Cheers,

Xavier



> Le 3 févr. 2021 à 06:13, Stacho Mudrak  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Xavier,
> 
> this is very strange - because if your map consists of several scraps, 
> therion should not be aware of total depth when doing 3d reconstruction of a 
> single scrap. There must be some issue...
> 
> Anyway, I have tried to fix at least the height interpolation formula - are 
> you able to compile and run my fork of therion code 
> (https://github.com/smudrak/therion <https://github.com/smudrak/therion>) - 
> whether this issue is also present there?
> 
> Combining plan/profile when doing 3d reconstruction would be the ultimate 
> solution, but it requires a change of this algorithm completely. 
> 
> And thanks for the idea of fake stations - they could also simplify life a 
> lot when digitizing old maps without having access to centreline data.
> 
> S.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 11:18, Xavier Robert 
>  <mailto:xavier.rob...@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I also had that behaviour with some of my surveys. 
> In fact, it mostly happen for scraps that I used to draw explored but 
> unsurveyed passages. In that case, there is no surveyed data to clip the 
> drawing to the main survey. To be able to clip it to the drawing, I fixed the 
> unsurveyed part with 1 known station and a scale definition in the scrap.
> 
> In that case, the resulting 3D-view consider that the floor of almost the 
> whole un-surveyed galerie is at the altitude of the fixed point, and that the 
> roof is at the altitude of the highest point of the cave. See for instance 
> the picture JB-Sump-NoHeight.png below:
> If in my scrap (plan projection) I add some points height, on the 3D view, it 
> clips the scrap at the altitude of the highest point (see 
> JB-Sump-WithpointHeight.png below, that is false because the unsurveyed 
> galerie follows more or less the parallel surveyed galerie; To get an idea, I 
> attached the pdf maps):
> To get these 3D-outputs, I compiled the project with both, plan- and 
> extended-projections scraps, but the extend-projection is not taken in 
> account to build the 3D. This could probably be resolved if Therion could 
> take in account both, plan and extended projection, during the compilation.
> 
> I suppose that this is not a simple request, as there is no points that can 
> link the 2 scraps with the 2 projections. I do not know if that is a good 
> idea or not, but one idea could be to define in the drawing similar fake 
> stations in the two projected scraps. For instance, if we draw in the 
> extended scrap a station point with the options « -name fake1 -unsurveyed » 
> (or a new subtype), and if we draw the same station point in the plan scrap 
> with the same option, Therion could link the 2 scraps and compute a better 
> approximate of the 3D view?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Xavier
> 
>> Le 2 févr. 2021 à 10:01, Martin Sluka via Therion > <mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Beni
>> 
>> 
>> that is not a problem of „spikes“ but as you may see on attached picture I 
>> had the same problem with one my project.
>> 
>> There were two scraps covered part the same area overlapped. Surveyed in two 
>> different surveying trips by two different groups drawn by two different 
>> people. As a result that overlapped area created something as infinite 
>> vertical chimney.
>> 
>> I had to comment one scrap in time from that part of cave and checked the 
>> result. Than I shorted one of those particular scraps and added correct join.
>> 
>> HTH
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 2. 2. 2021 v 9:48, Benedikt Hallinger >> <mailto:b...@hallinger.org>>:
>>> 
>>> Hm, that didn't help, unfortunately.
>>> in the meantime I also tried coloring the PDF by altitude, this is not 
>>> affected and working like expected.
>>> 
>>> Martin has readonly svn access to the data and may investigate in the 
>>> dataset?
>>> I just unlocked it for that purpose.
>>> 
>>> The affected thconfig is svn/Hirlatzhoehle/Zubringer/therion/thconfig
>>> and the scrap in question is in  
>>> svn/Hirlatzhoehle/Zubringer/1/therion/1.1.plan-2-b.th2
>>> The last known stat

Re: [Therion] new Therion 5.5.6

[Xavier Robert]

Super Stacho, it looks good for me now !
Thanks a lot for the reactivity (and the fix of course !) !
Cheers

Xavier

> Le 8 janv. 2021 à 08:06, Bruce Mutton  a écrit :
> 
> Evening
> FYI 54ea382 looks good for me, on one current project where I happen to have 
> a lot of extended splays and no drawings as yet (I did not check 84d4093).
> But then so did Therion 5.5.6 (2020-12-27), which I tested on a number of 
> datasets.  I did not experience the problem that Zavier identified, which is 
> interesting.
> Bruce
>  
> From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> 
> On Behalf Of Stacho Mudrak
> Sent: Friday, 8 January 2021 09:42
> To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
> Subject: Re: [Therion] new Therion 5.5.6
>  
> Thanks a lot, Xavier.
>  
> You are right, this fix introduced another (much more serious) bug. It should 
> be fixed in54ea382 
> <https://github.com/therion/therion/commit/54ea38232027aa25912b8948cc28a1b07bd1cc31>.
>  
> S.
>  
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 at 15:36, Xavier Robert 
>  <mailto:xavier.rob...@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>  
>> I just tried the last version, and extended elevation xvi is not well 
>> rendered as well as the the pdf with no drawing. See the attachement. I 
>> suppose that this is related with this fix. (If needed, I use Therion on 
>> MacosX).
>>  
>> Cheers,
>>  
>> Xavier
>>  
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Re: [Therion] new Therion 5.5.6

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,I just tried the last version, and extended elevation xvi is not well rendered as well as the the pdf with no drawing. See the attachement. I suppose that this is related with this fix. (If needed, I use Therion on MacosX).Cheers,XavierLe 5 janv. 2021 à 17:59, Stacho Mudrak  a écrit :Thanks for finding out this issue. It is related to the extended elevation splay shots calculation added several months ago.It should be fixed in 84d4093.S.On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 12:46, Elfi Hristova  wrote:Hi, I updated my therion version from 5.4.4 to 5.5.6 and one of my old maps can't compile. The log is not very helpful - "therion: error -- Code should not go here!"
Any help how to find the problem? The map is quite old and consists of new and old surveys and is 16km so searching through the files is not very easy. Is there a way I can see on which line/file the error is?

I am using macOS Catalina 10.15.7

Thanks,
Efi

On 27.12.20, 17:32, "Therion"  wrote:

    Hi, there is a new release 5.5.6 of Therion.
    Release notes:

    v5.5.6          Therion 5.5.6 (2020-12-27):

        therion:
         * fixed map statistics bug introduced in 5.5.5

    Best regards,<>
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Re: [Therion] Creating PDF/A map files

[Xavier Robert]

Hi, 

This is a good idea, but I totally agree with Benedikt, the source files (both 
.th and .th2) are the most important files as this are text files that contains 
all the information of the survey and the drawing. For me, these are the files 
that should be archived and shared.

Moreover, if I good understood, the pdf/A-1 does not allow transparency and 
layers. I am not a pdf specialist, but it seems to me that is not compatible 
with Therion outputs (for instance, If I open a pdf from Therion in 
Illustrator, I see sub-layers). Pdf/A-2 seems to be better as it allows both 
transparency and layers.

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 22 oct. 2020 à 15:43, Benedikt Hallinger  a écrit :
> 
> Hi,
> instalation of veraPDF was straightforward.
> 
> For a test run i get this:
>  failedChecks="1846">
> This will be a long road.
> 
> But your idea is quite good, as it will preserve valuable work.
> OTOH the PDFs are just results, what is really valuable would be the source 
> files. And they are pretty good to archive already, as they are just text 
> files!
> Therion should be fine to run a long time into the future, hopefully. And as 
> its OpenSource, there are no constraints whatsoever to fix bugs in the future 
> to make it work again...
> 
> 
> Am 2020-10-22 15:17, schrieb Bill Gee:
>> Hello everyone -
>> I propose a new feature for Therion. This will probably take some
>> work, and I am sure there will be discussion about how to implement
>> it.
>> It seems to me that the maps we produce with Therion are likely going
>> to be stored for a very long time, perhaps running into multiple tens
>> of years. As we all know, computer technology over that amount of time
>> will change drastically. Just think about the contrast in both
>> hardware and software in the last 25 years - from Windows 95 running
>> on 486dx processors to Linux and Windows 10 running on i7 and i9
>> processors.
>> I think we have some obligation to make sure the cave maps we generate
>> are still usable many years from now. Saving them in PDF format is a
>> large - but incomplete - step in that direction.
>> The new feature I propose is to modify the PDF creation code so that
>> it produces files that are PDF/A version 1b (or possibly version 2)
>> compliant.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A  [1]
>> I have checked all of the PDF files I created in Therion, and none of
>> them are flagged as PDF/A compliant. It is possible that they are, in
>> fact, compliant and simply do not have the necessary flag. The experts
>> can check that against the PDF/A specifications.
>> Existing PDF documents can be checked for PDF/A compliance with a
>> command-line tool called "verapdf". The web site for that tool is
>> https://openpreservation.org/products/verapdf/ 
>>  [2]
>> It is possible to use GhostScript to transform an existing PDF into a
>> PDF/A file. The command line is daunting.
>> https://www.mcbsys.com/blog/2018/10/batch-convert-pdf-to-pdf-a-2018-edition/ 
>> 
>> [3]
>> I tried the GhostScript conversion on one of my Therion maps.
>> Immediately at startup it produced this message three times:
>> "GPL Ghostscript 9.53.3: UTF16BE text string detected in DOCINFO
>> cannot be represented in XMP for PDF/A1, reverting to normal PDF
>> output"
>> The process continued running and took about 10 minutes. The resulting
>> file failed verapdf analysis. It also increased the file size from 4.3
>> megabytes to over 52 megabytes! The output file displayed correctly in
>> Okular.
>> I do not have any idea how Therion produces PDF files. It probably
>> uses some combination of TeX and GhostScript to get it done. The new
>> feature may be as simple as adding some additional parameters to the
>> command lines that call the external programs.
>> Let the discussion begin! :-)
>> --
>> Bill Gee
>> Links:
>> --
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A 
>> [2] https://openpreservation.org/products/verapdf/ 
>> 
>> [3] 
>> https://www.mcbsys.com/blog/2018/10/batch-convert-pdf-to-pdf-a-2018-edition/ 
>> 
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Re: [Therion] Include additional symbols in the legend

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Or a possibility : In one of your th2 for the plan, draw the missing symbol(s) 
from your plan that appears in your extended elevation, but draw them outside 
of the cave’s walls, and with the option -clip on. 
I have not tried, but they should then appear in the legend of your plan-pdf, 
but not in the plan view.

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 22 oct. 2020 à 13:00, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion  
> a écrit :
> 
> On 22/10/2020 11:44, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> Sorry, invisible symbols are not included in legend.
> 
> you might be able to include a custom symbol that looks the same, which
> chooses to draw nothing when not in the legend. that's quite a hack though.
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[Therion] Loch and VTK 9.0.1 (on Macos)

[Xavier Robert]

Dear all,

I was trying to upgrade my Therion version, and this morning, the VTK package 
upgraded from version 8.2.0_11 to 9.0.1 (I ‘am still on macosX 10.14, and I am 
upgrading my binaries with Homebrew). I do not know if this is relevant, but it 
also upgraded pcl (1.11.1—>1.11.1_1) and qt (5.15.0—>5.15.1) 

In consequence, Loch building crashes with this output (that was fine with vtk 
8.2) :

./utest
===
All tests passed (47 assertions in 19 test cases)

/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/make -C ./xtherion
make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/make -C ./loch
c++ -c -Wall -D_GNU_SOURCE -DLOCH -W -Wall -std=c++11 -DLXMACOSX 
-I/usr/local/lib/wx/include/osx_cocoa-unicode-3.0 -I/usr/local/include/wx-3.0 
-D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -DWXUSINGDLL -D__WXMAC__ -D__WXOSX__ -D__WXOSX_COCOA__  
-I/usr/local/opt/freetype/include/freetype2 -I/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0 
-Wno-deprecated -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/X11R6/include/freetype2 -O2 -o 
lxData.o lxData.cxx
lxData.cxx:541:28: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkPolyDataNormals'; 
did you mean 'SetOutput'?
  this->scrapWallsNormals->SetInput(this->scrapWalls);
   ^~~~
   SetOutput
/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0/vtkPolyDataAlgorithm.h:54:16: note: 'SetOutput' 
declared here
  virtual void SetOutput(vtkDataObject* d);
   ^
lxData.cxx:554:19: error: no member named 'AddInput' in 'vtkAppendPolyData'
  this->allWalls->AddInput(this->scrapWallsNormals->GetOutput());
  ~~  ^
lxData.cxx:555:19: error: no member named 'AddInput' in 'vtkAppendPolyData'
  this->allWalls->AddInput(this->lrudWalls);
  ~~  ^
lxData.cxx:562:27: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkTriangleFilter'; 
did you mean 'SetOutput'?
  this->allWallsTriangle->SetInput(this->allWalls->GetOutput());
  ^~~~
  SetOutput
/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0/vtkPolyDataAlgorithm.h:54:16: note: 'SetOutput' 
declared here
  virtual void SetOutput(vtkDataObject* d);
   ^
lxData.cxx:563:25: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkDepthSortPolyData'; 
did you mean 'SetOutput'?
  this->allWallsSorted->SetInput(this->allWallsTriangle->GetOutput());
^~~~
SetOutput
/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0/vtkPolyDataAlgorithm.h:54:16: note: 'SetOutput' 
declared here
  virtual void SetOutput(vtkDataObject* d);
   ^
lxData.cxx:569:27: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkStripper'; did you 
mean 'SetOutput'?
  this->allWallsStripped->SetInput(this->allWallsTriangle->GetOutput());
  ^~~~
  SetOutput
/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0/vtkPolyDataAlgorithm.h:54:16: note: 'SetOutput' 
declared here
  virtual void SetOutput(vtkDataObject* d);
   ^
lxData.cxx:576:25: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkPolyDataNormals'; 
did you mean 'SetOutput'?
  this->surfaceNormals->SetInput(this->surface);
^~~~
SetOutput
/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0/vtkPolyDataAlgorithm.h:54:16: note: 'SetOutput' 
declared here
  virtual void SetOutput(vtkDataObject* d);
   ^
lxData.cxx:584:26: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkTriangleFilter'; 
did you mean 'SetOutput'?
  this->surfaceTriangle->SetInput(this->surfaceNormals->GetOutput());
 ^~~~
 SetOutput
/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0/vtkPolyDataAlgorithm.h:54:16: note: 'SetOutput' 
declared here
  virtual void SetOutput(vtkDataObject* d);
   ^
lxData.cxx:585:24: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkDepthSortPolyData'; 
did you mean 'SetOutput'?
  this->surfaceSorted->SetInput(this->surfaceTriangle->GetOutput());
   ^~~~
   SetOutput
/usr/local/include/vtk-9.0/vtkPolyDataAlgorithm.h:54:16: note: 'SetOutput' 
declared here
  virtual void SetOutput(vtkDataObject* d);
   ^
lxData.cxx:611:6: error: no member named 'SetInput' in 'vtkPolyDataWriter'
  w->SetInput(this->allWallsStripped->GetOutput());
  ~  ^
10 errors generated.
make[1]: *** [lxData.o] Error 1
make: *** [loch/loch] Error 2

I imaging that this is due to a new definition of the function 
SetInput/AddInput in the new package VTK?

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Re: [Therion] Error while compiling Therion 5.5.x (proj issue?) on MacosX

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your answers! They help me a lot to find the problem.

You were right, I had a Proj version mismatch because Anaconda3 changed my 
PATH… After removing the link to Anaconda in my PATH, I could compile Therion 
and execute the tests.

Meanwhile, I upgraded all my homebrew binaries among which VTK that is changing 
from version 8.2 to 9.0 (released today…)… and it causes a crash while 
compiling Loch. I will open a new discussion for that.

Xav


> Le 11 sept. 2020 à 11:24, Martin Sluka via Therion  a 
> écrit :
> 
> 10. 9. 2020 v 20:07, Martin Budaj  >:
>> 
>> Hi, this looks like a Proj version mismatch (Proj compiled into Therion 
>> trying to open a database belonging to another version of Proj installed in 
>> the system). Check if Proj command line utilities work (run e.g. "projinfo 
>> EPSG:32634"), check the version and check if the version matches the version 
>> of Proj used in Therion.
>>  
> 
> Today’s successful compilation of last snapshot on MacOSX 10.13.6. 
> 
> Martin S.
> 
> This is part of compilation where is version of proj used. Project is listed 
> in lines 91-218 of compilation log.

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[Therion] Error while compiling Therion 5.5.x (proj issue?) on MacosX

[Xavier Robert]

Dear all,

I am trying to compile the last Therion version on my Macos 10.14.6. The 
compilation fails with the ./utest with the error:
./utest
proj_create: cannot build projectedCRS 32634: cannot build geodeticCRS 4326: 
SQLite error on SELECT name, ellipsoid_auth_name, ellipsoid_code, 
prime_meridian_auth_name, prime_meridian_code, area_of_use_auth_name, 
area_of_use_code, publication_date, deprecated FROM geodetic_datum WHERE 
auth_name = ? AND code = ?: no such column: publication_date
(null): error -- PROJ library: -61 (generic error of unknown origin): epsg:32634
make: *** [tests] Error 1

Versions 5.5.0, 5.5.1, 2020-09-08-master (57fce14) and the today’s master 
(6c41c82) are raising the same error. 

With the master (6c41c82) version:
A « tclsh thcdata.tcl » gives « No PROJ system definitions imported ».
If I do a search for « 32634 » in thcsdata.cxx, I find only 1 line:
{false, true, false, "+init=epsg:32634", 
"PROJCS[\"WGS_1984_UTM_Zone_34N\",GEOGCS[\"GCS_WGS_1984\",DATUM[\"D_WGS_1984\",SPHEROID[\"WGS_1984\",6378137.0,298.257223563]],PRIMEM[\"Greenwich\",0.0],UNIT[\"Degree\",0.0174532925199433]],PROJECTION[\"Transverse_Mercator\"],PARAMETER[\"False_Easting\",50.0],PARAMETER[\"False_Northing\",0.0],PARAMETER[\"Central_Meridian\",21.0],PARAMETER[\"Scale_Factor\",0.9996],PARAMETER[\"Latitude_Of_Origin\",0.0],UNIT[\"Meter\",1.0]]",
 "WGS84 / UTM zone 34N"},

I tried the compilation with 2 proj versions: 6.3.2 (proj) and 7.1.1 
(osgeo-proj). The compilation stops with the same error.
I also have the sqlite3 from Anaconda installed.

On the other side, I also tried to recompile the 5.4.4 version (that I already 
have and that is running fine), and I could recompile it without any errors 
(with proj 6.3.2, I did not tried with proj 7).

Does anyone have faced the same problem and have solved the issue ?

Cheers,

Xavier

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Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey

[Xavier Robert]

Oups, sorry, I have answer without searching in my thconfigs... The right 
command is 

symbol-hide line survey 

Cheers 

Xavier 


De: "Roger Schuster"  
À: "List for Therion users"  
Envoyé: Mardi 14 Avril 2020 14:36:31 
Objet: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 

Hi, 

this results in the following error: 

symbol-hide line centerline: error -- thconfig [12] -- thconfig [12] -- unknown 
symbol specification -- line centerline 

Roger 

-- Originalnachricht -- 
Von: "Xavier Robert" < [ mailto:xavier.rob...@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr | 
xavier.rob...@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr ] > 
An: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therion@speleo.sk ] 
> 
Gesendet: 14.04.2020 20:45:38 
Betreff: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 




Hi, 

I may be wrong, but it looks like if you plot the centerline ? 

In your thconfig, if you add "symbol-hide line centerline", does it solve your 
problem ? 

Cheers, 

Xavier 


De: "Roger Schuster" < [ mailto:ro...@r-schuster.de | ro...@r-schuster.de ] > 
À: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therion@speleo.sk ] 
> 
Envoyé: Mardi 14 Avril 2020 13:31:25 
Objet: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 

Hi cavers, 

symbol-hide doesn't change anything. Here is a screen shot of the white, 
trapezoid "artifact": 

As said I marked two stations (-visibility off) at opposite ends of the cave on 
the map getting this white "things". When I use color map-fg the trapezoid is 
filled in the given foreground color. I use Therion 5.4.4 btw. 

Regards, 

Roger 

-- Originalnachricht -- 
Von: "Torsten Schnitter via Therion" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | 
therion@speleo.sk ] > 
An: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therion@speleo.sk ] 
> 
Cc: "Torsten Schnitter" < [ mailto:torsten.schnit...@netcologne.de | 
torsten.schnit...@netcologne.de ] > 
Gesendet: 14.04.2020 08:50:24 
Betreff: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 


BQ_BEGIN


Hi Roger 


I'm not sure about your problem with the "artifacts" but try 
"symbol-hide point station" in your layout definition for the map. 
(maybe also "symbol-hide line survey") 


Just a guess... 


cheers, 
Torsten 

BQ_BEGIN
Roger Schuster < [ mailto:ro...@r-schuster.de | ro...@r-schuster.de ] > hat am 
13. April 2020 um 19:00 geschrieben: 

Hello again, 

finally I got it working and if I compare the output of Therion with the 
original map on paper there is only a tiny bit of distortion. Both maps match 
quite nicely. There are just two things I don't understand: 

There is a white, trapezoid gap on the map which isn't on the background image 
(of course). I guess it has something to do with the morphing - is there a way 
to get rid of this artifact? 

I also noticed that length and depth statistics in the map header (registers 
\cavelength and \cavedepth) are wrong while in the log file it's right. The 
values in the registers obviously depend on which stations / surveys are marked 
and to get the same values as in the log at least one station of each survey 
has to be marked (unfortunately each mark results in a more or less ugly white 
trapezoid as mentioned above). This is the reason why I decided to override the 
registers in code tex-map. 

Unfortunately I can't post the map here because of copyright reasons. 

Best regards, 

Roger 

-- Originalnachricht -- 
Von: "עמרי גסטר" < [ mailto:omri...@gmail.com | omri...@gmail.com ] > 
An: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therion@speleo.sk ] 
> 
Gesendet: 13.04.2020 14:06:17 
Betreff: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 


BQ_BEGIN

You can use the debug function to see how bad is the distortion and change the 
position of the station accordingly until you are happy with the result. 

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 2:52 PM Roger Schuster < [ mailto:ro...@r-schuster.de | 
ro...@r-schuster.de ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Hello all, 

thank you for your answers. Projection none doesn't work - all survey lines 
will appear on the pdf but not the scanned map. So I tried projection plan 
again and marked a second station and this did the trick. The background is now 
on the output as I expected. One problem I need to solve: The stations aren't 
marked on the map so I've to guess where they are... My estimation shouldn't be 
too far off to prevent unwanted distortions of the map. 

Thanks again for your support! 

Roger 

-- Originalnachricht -- 
Von: "Martin Sluka via Therion" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | 
therion@speleo.sk ] > 
An: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therio

Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey

[Xavier Robert]

Hi, 

I may be wrong, but it looks like if you plot the centerline ? 

In your thconfig, if you add "symbol-hide line centerline", does it solve your 
problem ? 

Cheers, 

Xavier 


De: "Roger Schuster"  
À: "List for Therion users"  
Envoyé: Mardi 14 Avril 2020 13:31:25 
Objet: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 

Hi cavers, 

symbol-hide doesn't change anything. Here is a screen shot of the white, 
trapezoid "artifact": 

As said I marked two stations (-visibility off) at opposite ends of the cave on 
the map getting this white "things". When I use color map-fg the trapezoid is 
filled in the given foreground color. I use Therion 5.4.4 btw. 

Regards, 

Roger 

-- Originalnachricht -- 
Von: "Torsten Schnitter via Therion" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | 
therion@speleo.sk ] > 
An: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therion@speleo.sk ] 
> 
Cc: "Torsten Schnitter" < [ mailto:torsten.schnit...@netcologne.de | 
torsten.schnit...@netcologne.de ] > 
Gesendet: 14.04.2020 08:50:24 
Betreff: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 





Hi Roger 


I'm not sure about your problem with the "artifacts" but try 
"symbol-hide point station" in your layout definition for the map. 
(maybe also "symbol-hide line survey") 


Just a guess... 


cheers, 
Torsten 

BQ_BEGIN
Roger Schuster < [ mailto:ro...@r-schuster.de | ro...@r-schuster.de ] > hat am 
13. April 2020 um 19:00 geschrieben: 

Hello again, 

finally I got it working and if I compare the output of Therion with the 
original map on paper there is only a tiny bit of distortion. Both maps match 
quite nicely. There are just two things I don't understand: 

There is a white, trapezoid gap on the map which isn't on the background image 
(of course). I guess it has something to do with the morphing - is there a way 
to get rid of this artifact? 

I also noticed that length and depth statistics in the map header (registers 
\cavelength and \cavedepth) are wrong while in the log file it's right. The 
values in the registers obviously depend on which stations / surveys are marked 
and to get the same values as in the log at least one station of each survey 
has to be marked (unfortunately each mark results in a more or less ugly white 
trapezoid as mentioned above). This is the reason why I decided to override the 
registers in code tex-map. 

Unfortunately I can't post the map here because of copyright reasons. 

Best regards, 

Roger 

-- Originalnachricht -- 
Von: "עמרי גסטר" < [ mailto:omri...@gmail.com | omri...@gmail.com ] > 
An: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therion@speleo.sk ] 
> 
Gesendet: 13.04.2020 14:06:17 
Betreff: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 


BQ_BEGIN

You can use the debug function to see how bad is the distortion and change the 
position of the station accordingly until you are happy with the result. 

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 2:52 PM Roger Schuster < [ mailto:ro...@r-schuster.de | 
ro...@r-schuster.de ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Hello all, 

thank you for your answers. Projection none doesn't work - all survey lines 
will appear on the pdf but not the scanned map. So I tried projection plan 
again and marked a second station and this did the trick. The background is now 
on the output as I expected. One problem I need to solve: The stations aren't 
marked on the map so I've to guess where they are... My estimation shouldn't be 
too far off to prevent unwanted distortions of the map. 

Thanks again for your support! 

Roger 

-- Originalnachricht -- 
Von: "Martin Sluka via Therion" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | 
therion@speleo.sk ] > 
An: "List for Therion users" < [ mailto:therion@speleo.sk | therion@speleo.sk ] 
> 
Cc: "Martin Sluka" < [ mailto:martinsl...@mac.com | martinsl...@mac.com ] > 
Gesendet: 13.04.2020 12:28:40 
Betreff: Re: [Therion] Sketches on doesn't work / legacy survey 


BQ_BEGIN



BQ_BEGIN

13. 4. 2020 v 11:20, Roger Schuster < [ mailto:ro...@r-schuster.de | 
ro...@r-schuster.de ] >: 

After that I created a scrap with the scanned map (projection plan) and scaled 
it using the scale bar and the scaling tool of Xtherion map editor. 




I’m afraid it will work only for "projection none" as for sections. 

For plan you should use minimally two stations because Therion georeferences 
each scrap according those stations. 

Martin 

BQ_END

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BQ_END


BQ_END

BQ_END




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Re: [Therion] problem with -flip horizontal extended elevation scrap

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi Alastair,

Sorry for my late answer, I couldn’t test anything before today. I try your 
trick (extend definition in the .th data files + the -flip horizontal in the 
scrap definition), and yes, it works. I will keep that in mind !

Thanks a lot !

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 21 déc. 2019 à 06:06, alastair gott  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Xavier,
> 
> Did my answer to omri help you or is there a different problem with your 
> scenario?
> 
> Alastair.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Xavier Robert > <mailto:xavier.rob...@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr>>
>> Date: 20 December 2019 at 10:50:53 GMT
>> To: Therion mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
>> Subject: Re: [Therion] problem with -flip horizontal extended elevation scrap
>> Reply-To: List for Therion users > <mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I did not already send an issue that I faced some weeks ago, because I 
>> wanted to show it with simple examples that I did not have the time to 
>> build, but it seems to me related to Omri’s problem :
>> 
>> For a project, I am currently passing/numerizing hand drawn maps that 
>> friends has drawn on a skeleton with stations names. For some reasons, after 
>> this process, I had to reverse the direction of some passages for extended 
>> elevation. I have just done it by playing with the « extend » command in the 
>> data, without changing/redrawing the scraps. The scraps are thus flipped by 
>> Therion, and I have the same behaviour than Omri : It flips them upside down 
>> and mashing up the lines. This is not the behavior I was waiting for...
>> 
>> I will try to take some time to build a small example as soon as I can ! I 
>> am not sure, but it looks like it is a bug in Therion.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Xavier
>> 
>>> Le 20 déc. 2019 à 11:15, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:omri...@gmail.com>⁩> a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> I have a scrap of extended elevation to left and I want to flip it so it 
>>> will be to the right, but when I add -flip horizontal to the scrap 
>>> definition it flips it upside down and mashing up the lines. 
>>>  -flip vertical does the same thing.
>>> 
>>> am I missing something?
>>> my file is generated from Topodroid
>>> 
>>> I added an examples of what it does and the .th +.th2 files 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Omri
>> 
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Re: [Therion] problem with -flip horizontal extended elevation scrap

[Xavier Robert]

Hi everyone,

I did not already send an issue that I faced some weeks ago, because I wanted 
to show it with simple examples that I did not have the time to build, but it 
seems to me related to Omri’s problem :

For a project, I am currently passing/numerizing hand drawn maps that friends 
has drawn on a skeleton with stations names. For some reasons, after this 
process, I had to reverse the direction of some passages for extended 
elevation. I have just done it by playing with the « extend » command in the 
data, without changing/redrawing the scraps. The scraps are thus flipped by 
Therion, and I have the same behaviour than Omri : It flips them upside down 
and mashing up the lines. This is not the behavior I was waiting for...

I will try to take some time to build a small example as soon as I can ! I am 
not sure, but it looks like it is a bug in Therion.

Cheers,

Xavier

> Le 20 déc. 2019 à 11:15, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com⁩> a écrit :
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a scrap of extended elevation to left and I want to flip it so it will 
> be to the right, but when I add -flip horizontal to the scrap definition it 
> flips it upside down and mashing up the lines. 
>   -flip vertical does the same thing.
> 
> am I missing something?
> my file is generated from Topodroid
> 
> I added an examples of what it does and the .th +.th2 files 
> 
> -- 
> Omri

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[Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Re: How to rotate XVI?

[Xavier Robert]

Thanks a lot Torsten ! 
Xavier 


De: "List for Therion users"  
À: "List for Therion users"  
Cc: "Torsten Schnitter"  
Envoyé: Lundi 25 Novembre 2019 09:28:49 
Objet: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: How to rotate XVI? 



Hi Bruce 


Attached you will find the Therion code (.th files) for the layout used on our 
cave map. 
It's one file for the "Exploration History", one file for the map header and 
one file for the legend symbols. 

I used some variables. The idea was to use the code for different projects with 
different settings. 
But sometimes it's not that easy. ;-) 
You have to define this stuff within your thconfig file. You'll find an example 
for this in the pdf file. 


Customizing the map header: 

There are 3 variables for the "GPS location" part: 
- thlocation 
- thlocationb 
- thlocationc 
If you don't define one or some of these they should not be displayed. 


Text "p.xxx indicates..." through variable "thpenetration": 
- if set to anything it should be displayed. 
- if set to {} (empty) the text should not be displayed 


Text "With thanks to" through variable "ththanksto": 
- Just put the text you want to be displayed in the variable 


There are 3 variables for text sizes in map header and also in "Exploration 
History": 
- thsizexl (Cave name, title "Exploration History") 
- thsizel (Comment) 
- thsizem (all other text) 


Finally you can place all parts (header, legendsymbols, northarrow, scalebar, 
...) as you need on your map using 
\legenbox commands 


Please let me know if you have questions to this. 


regards, 
Torsten 


Bruce Mutton  hat am 25. November 2019 um 02:32 geschrieben: 



I like your map Torsten. 
I hope Alistair’s solution is what you were looking for. 
I have some questions so that I might make such a nice map. 

1. How did you obtain the ground profile? I presume you may have walked it 
with a gps to obtain ‘real’ survey data or extracted it from Google Earth. 
2. I like the line you used for the ground profile. Would you share the 
code for that? 
3. I like the layout of the text information boxes. Would you share an 
example of the code for those? (cave name, location, surveyed, thanks, 
exploration history) 



Regards 
Bruce 










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Re: [Therion] Point altitude/deph, Help !

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi all, 

I think I have found a trick. The other Xavier led me to the right tracks, 
thanks a lot ! 

Finally, this is quite simple with the point altitude, and no need to change 
anything inside the : 
- If we use the point altitude only with the option -align, we get the altitude 
- If we use the point altitude with the options -align and -value [-1004 m] 
where 1004 is the altitude of the main entrance, we print the depth only for 
that point (Do not forget the " - " before the altitude of the main entrance), 
and thus, we do not erase the classic point altitude. 

The only (small) limits are : 


* If the main entrance changes, we need to manually update ALL the points 
that print the depth. But that should not be be everyday, and not a big issue 
to do that. 
* the symbology of the two points is the same. I will have a look for a way 
to modify that and let you know if I find a trick (If I copy the code of the 
point Altitude, and call it p_u_depth(expr pos, R, S, A), it crashes...). 

Cheers, 

Xav 

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Re: [Therion] tex outcsname variable broken

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi all, 

I also recently remarked a problem with the cs definition : I am always using 
the UTM projection, and if I try to force an UTM projection that is not in the 
right zone, it does not work. Id est, if I am close to the UTM18 zone, but in 
the UTM17 zone, and that I try to force the projection to UTM18 to be 
consistent with the rest of the caves system, my output remains with the UTM17 
projection (at least, this is what is written in the header that I tweeked with 
Bruce's developments). 

Cheers, 

Xavier 


De: "List for Therion users"  
À: "List for Therion users"  
Cc: "Bruce Mutton"  
Envoyé: Lundi 4 Mars 2019 04:38:05 
Objet: [Therion] tex outcsname variable broken 



It seems a problem with the outcsname token register has been introduced with 
release 5.4.3. 

Instead of containing the output coordinates system name, it now contains the 
output coordinates system code. 

As below, stepping through recent Therion releases… 



Version 5.4.2 creates this in my customised header; 





…as does therion 5.4.2+16a5e3e (2019-01-17) 



But 5.4.3 and all subsequent versions create this; 





Bruce 







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Re: [Therion] Depth in the header

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi Bruce ! 

Thanks a lot for your answer, it has given me some ideas (I try to be synthetic 
and hopefully understandable, but I am really far to be a Tex guru, I may 
misunderstand this language) : 

If I manually define a reference altitude that is the altitude of the main 
entrance, this is easy to calcul the depth for the header: 
+[Max. altitude of the cave - ref. altitude] / [Min. altitude of the cave - 
ref. altitude]. 

I thus tried to do that by combining a thconfig (where I should define the 
altitude reference) and a config.thc (where I should define the layouts and Tex 
codes to perform all the calculs and tweek the header) files to port the coding 
to multiple thconfig's files (see attachements, I tried to comment all my 
changes and my problems): 


* In the config.thc, I wrote 3 layouts 
* a layout langue-en that define some variables in english (Presently, 
I also have the same in french and spanish). This is where I also define all 
the new tokens I eventually use in my layouts (clubs, synthesys, webpage,...). 
This is working very well. 
* a layout headerl where I define all what I want to write in my 
header. I used the models from the Therion Wiki, and arrange it a bit to my 
desires... I specially wrote a section to modify the depth (between TEST / END 
TEST). This part seems OK, depending on the type of variables used (see 
further). 
* a layout Testdepth : this is the layout where I calcul the altitude 
differences above and under the entrance inside a code tex-map - endcode block. 
Here, I have a problem: If I do this calcul by using directly numbers (i.e. I 
need to give the values as numbers [e.g. \edef\cavemaxzc{1008}], and not as 
variable [e.g. \edef\cavemaxzc{\the\cavemaxz}] ), it is OK. If I try to use 
counters or token, I receive an error. The problem is that if I want to be able 
to use this code for a lot of caves, I need to be able to give the value of the 
tokens \cavemaxz and \caveminz. (I tried with \the\cavemaxz or 
\number\cavemaxz, and that does not work). 
* In the thconfig, I made 3 changes to change the depth in the header: 
* I manually define the variable \altref that correspond to the 
altitude of the entrance. If I declare the variable as a token (\newtoks) or a 
counter (\nexcount), I get an error: ! Missing number, treated as zero.  { l.765 \newcount\altref \altref{ 1000}. I need to define it as 
\edef\altref{1000}. If this variable is empty, I also have an error, probably 
because this variable is not passed to the layouts in config.thc 
* I call the layout Testdepth from the config.thc. In that case, I have 
the error: ! Missing number, treated as zero \relax l.755 
...hc = \numexpr \cavemaxzc - \altref \relax. It seems that the variable 
\altref that I defined is not passed to the Tex code in the layout Tesdepth. I 
fear that is because this new defined variable is not a token. May I true ? 
* If I copy the layout Testdepth from the config.thc and paste it 
inside the layout my_layout from the thconfig (while I comment the line copy 
Testdepth), it does work, if the \cavemaxz and \caveminz are defined as numbers 
and not as token or counters. If this variable is empty, I also have an error, 
probably because this variable is not passed to the layouts in config.thc. (On 
the contrary, the new counters \maxdepthc and \mindepthc are passed !) 

If I good understood, in Tex, a token is not a number, and thus we cannot 
directly make any calculs with it. We need to translate it to a number. 

Moreover, it seems that if we want to pass variables between layouts that are 
stored in different files (i.e. here config.thc and thconfig), the variable 
needs to be defined everywhere as tokens (or counters ?). 

So I suppose that I need to find a way to translate a token or a counter into a 
number. Does anyone know how to do that? 

Sorry for this long email, 
Cheers, 

Xavier 


De: "List for Therion users"  
À: "List for Therion users"  
Cc: "Bruce Mutton"  
Envoyé: Jeudi 21 Février 2019 14:33:34 
Objet: Re: [Therion] Depth in the header 



Kia Ora Xavier 

I don’t have a proper answer for you. It would seem to me that this is too 
complicated to become a built in feature. As you suggest, for an export of one 
cave the problem might be easier to solve, but where many caves are exported it 
might be difficult to conceive an automated approach. 



Maybe an easier thing to code would be something where the user could just 
choose a reference altitude to use as a notional zero altitude for your user 
defined metapost? 



Personally I do not care much for the height relative to entrances, and I have 
modified the header to report height like this. 



Together with gridlines and altitude points throughout the map, the user of the 
map can do their own maths! 



Regarding ‘caves’ and ‘main entrances’, I explored some ideas in the wiki [ 
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/faq?s%5b%5d=entrance#how_do_i_specify_a_m

Re: [Therion] Point altitude/deph, Help !

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi Xavier, 

Thanks a lot for your answer. I already tough at that trick, but if I do that, 
I loose the altitude information, and I do not want to loose it. 

Cheers, 

Xavier 


_ 
Hi Xavier, Hi Bruce, 

A trick that I used a while ago was to use the grid-origin command in the 
layout. According to Marco corvi's description ( [ 
http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_02/m_02a.htm | 
http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_02/m_02a.htm ] ): grid-origin 
specifies the coordinates of the grid origin. Example: "grid-origin 0 0 1875 
m", assuming that the entrance altitude is 1875 m, sets the altitude values for 
the altitude points. Having set the entrance (grid origin) altitude, when you 
specify an "altitude" for a point of a wall line (with the line-point option 
"altitude .") the value of the altitude is computed and printed on the map. 

The difficulty is that all the layouts need to have the same grid-origin if you 
want to have compatible depth in different exported maps. 

Hope that helps. 

Xavier 




De: "List for Therion users"  
À: "List for Therion users"  
Cc: "Xavier Robert"  
Envoyé: Jeudi 21 Février 2019 13:28:21 
Objet: [Therion] Point altitude/deph, Help ! 

Dear all, 

On the caves’ survey I draw, I am often adding the altitude of points that are 
characteristic in the cave by using the point « altitude ». I find that really 
great and I want to keep it. 

However, I received several remarks from my co-cavers/surveyors that this is 
not quite readable, and that they would prefer if I can also add the depth 
since the entrance at those points. I can do it manually with the point label, 
but for a complex system, that will be a pain to maintain each time we add a 
new survey or a connection with an other cave previously unconnected. 

I thus tried to add a new user defined point (u:prof) based on the present 
altitude definition. However I am really not a mpost guru and I am facing two 
problems. Here is the code I wrote : 

## New point depth ## 
code metapost 
def p_u_prof (expr pos, R, S, A) = 
T:=identity aligned A scaled 1.5S rotated R shifted pos; 
# calcul of the depth of the point: altitude of the point - altitude max of the 
cave 
# (it will be better with the altitude of the main entrance 
# defined by the option -entrance of the survey block) 
depth := \thaltitude - \cavemaxz; 
# Print the label 
begingroup 
interim defaultscale:=1; 
label (btex {-- } depth {m --} etex, (0, 0)) transformed T 
withcolor(0.5,0.,0.); 
# 1) Why is profondeur value NOT printed ? Where is the error ? 
endgroup; 
enddef; 
initsymbol("p_u_prof") 
endcode 
## 

The problem is that this point will print the text "-- depth m --", but not the 
value of the depth. I suspect that : 


1. the depth calcul may not be accurate? 
2. the way I call the variable depth is not accurate? 

Does anyone has a clue for that problem? 


My second problem/question deals with the way to calculate the depth. Here I 
try to calculate it by using the maximum altitude of the cave (\cavemaxz). But 
it should be better if I use the altitude of the main entrance if it exists. 
But I did not find if there is such a varaible already defined. Does anyone 
knows how to do that ? 

Cheers, 

Xavier 


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[Therion] Depth in the header

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Dear all, 

I have an other question link to the depth definition with Therion. 

In the header, Therion print only the total vertical distance between the 
highest point and the lowest point of the cave by default. As for the point 
depth, lots of my co-cavers/surveyors made me the remark that it would be 
better if we can print the depth in the form +xx, -yy where 


* +xx is the height of the highest point of the cave in regards to the main 
entrance, 
* -yy is the height of the lowest point of the cave in regards to the main 
entrance, 

It also ask question depending of the data: 


* If there are different entrances, which entrance to use? In that case, a 
solution will be to choose the entrance defined in the survey block with the 
option -entrance 
* If there are different caves on the map, what reference point to choose ? 
A solution could be to choose the highest entrance. 

I tried to find Therion's variables to calcule that, but it seems that we lack 
an info that is the altitude of the main entrance. 

Does anyone has an idea how to do that ? 

Do I need to open a request on Github (I am not sure to be able to code that 
myself) ? 

Cheers, 

Xav 
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[Therion] Point altitude/deph, Help !

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Dear all, 

On the caves’ survey I draw, I am often adding the altitude of points that are 
characteristic in the cave by using the point « altitude ». I find that really 
great and I want to keep it. 

However, I received several remarks from my co-cavers/surveyors that this is 
not quite readable, and that they would prefer if I can also add the depth 
since the entrance at those points. I can do it manually with the point label, 
but for a complex system, that will be a pain to maintain each time we add a 
new survey or a connection with an other cave previously unconnected. 

I thus tried to add a new user defined point (u:prof) based on the present 
altitude definition. However I am really not a mpost guru and I am facing two 
problems. Here is the code I wrote : 

## New point depth ## 
code metapost 
def p_u_prof (expr pos, R, S, A) = 
T:=identity aligned A scaled 1.5S rotated R shifted pos; 
# calcul of the depth of the point: altitude of the point - altitude max of the 
cave 
# (it will be better with the altitude of the main entrance 
# defined by the option -entrance of the survey block) 
depth := \thaltitude - \cavemaxz; 
# Print the label 
begingroup 
interim defaultscale:=1; 
label (btex {-- } depth {m --} etex, (0, 0)) transformed T 
withcolor(0.5,0.,0.); 
# 1) Why is profondeur value NOT printed ? Where is the error ? 
endgroup; 
enddef; 
initsymbol("p_u_prof") 
endcode 
## 

The problem is that this point will print the text "-- depth m --", but not the 
value of the depth. I suspect that : 


1. the depth calcul may not be accurate? 
2. the way I call the variable depth is not accurate? 

Does anyone has a clue for that problem? 


My second problem/question deals with the way to calculate the depth. Here I 
try to calculate it by using the maximum altitude of the cave (\cavemaxz). But 
it should be better if I use the altitude of the main entrance if it exists. 
But I did not find if there is such a varaible already defined. Does anyone 
knows how to do that ? 

Cheers, 

Xavier 

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Re: [Therion] Changing text on the legend

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi Bill, 

I had a quick look on you thconfig. The definition of the new custom legend 
seems OK. 
But, in your layout "MainMapNoColor" and "MainMapColorized", you need to add 
the language definition with the option "language en_US". If you do not add 
this option, therion seems to not use the en_US by default, and thus your 
custom legend is not taken in account. 

See the thconfig in attachement. 

Cheers, 

Xav 


De: "Bruce Mutton via Therion"  
À: "List for Therion users"  
Cc: "Bruce Mutton"  
Envoyé: Vendredi 8 Février 2019 18:07:23 
Objet: Re: [Therion] Changing text on the legend 



Hi Bill 

Not sure what is going wrong (just perused your files, I have not compiled 
them). 

I have had no such problems, and cannot see any significant differences to what 
I am doing for symbols that do not exist as a Therion default , although I have 
only user defined points and lines, not areas. 



Here are some examples that work in my thconfig file just fine (rope is perhaps 
a bad example, as I think it is now a default symbol, however it was not when I 
first created this many years ago). 

text en "line u:rope" "rope" #text to appear in legend 

text mi "line u:rope" "taura" 

text fr "line u:rope" "corde" 

text en "line u:heyphone" "hey phone antenna" 



In the particular case of rope, have small differences associated with symbol 
definition, that I don’t expect are relevant, but maybe… 

1. No semi colon after initsymbol (seems like it is a mistake on my part, 
but it seems like it has not ever caused me problems). 
2. I have defined the ‘shape’ of the symbol in the legend. 




initsymbol("l_u_rope") 



def l_u_rope_legend = 

l_u_rope(((.2,.2) -- (.8,.8)) inscale) 

enddef; 



Don’t expect this will help, but maybe… 

Bruce 



-Original Message- 
From: Therion  On Behalf Of Bill Gee via Therion 
Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 10:01 
To: therion@speleo.sk 
Cc: Bill Gee  
Subject: [Therion] Changing text on the legend 



Hello everyone - 



This has been annoying me for a while. Time to see if there is a fix ... 



I have defined quite a few custom symbols, and I have redefined some of the 
symbols that are included with Therion. When Therion prints the legend, those 
symbols get labels like "area u:pavement". 



I added some text lines to the thconfig file, but that has no effect. A close 
reading of the Therion Book tells me that text substitution only works for text 
strings that are part of the language pack. That implies it does NOT work to 
re-label symbols in the legend. Is that true? 



The attached file is a sample cave. The PDF file shows the incorrect strings in 
the legend. The two custom symbols on this map are defined below. 



code metapost 

# Define an area fill for pavement 

beginpattern(pattern_pavement); 

draw (-0.7u, -0.2u)--(-0.1u, 0.2u) withpen pensquare scaled (0.04u); 

draw (0.1u, 0.2u)--(0.7u, -0.2u) withpen pensquare scaled (0.04u); 

patternxstep(1.6u); 

patternystep(0.50u); 

endpattern; 



def a_u_pavement (expr Path) = 

T:=identity; 

thclean Path; 

thfill Path withpattern pattern_pavement; 

enddef; 



# Define an area fill for tiled floor 

beginpattern(pattern_tiles); 

draw (-0.1u, -0.1u)--(-0.1u, 0.1u)--(0.1u, 0.1u)--(0.1u, -0.1u)--cycle; 

patternxstep(0.3u); 

patternystep(0.3u); 

endpattern; 



def a_u_tiles (expr Path) = 

T:= identity; 

thclean Path; 

thfill Path withpattern pattern_tiles; 

enddef; 





# Initialize the new symbols 

initsymbol ("a_u_pavement"); 

initsymbol ("a_u_tiles"); 



endcode 





Thanks! 

-- 

Bill Gee 



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Description: Binary data
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Re: [Therion] Surface Contours

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi Kevin,

I did that in a quite dirty way :
from the contour lines, build a DEM that you export in an ArcGIS ASCII format
Pass the ArcGIS format to the Therion format (header to change)
In QGis, drap the contour lines over the DEM
Export the result as an image
add the image in the DEM in the therion format with the bitmap command (see the 
thbook)

Cheers,

Xav

> Le 14 août 2018 à 09:32, kevin dixon via Therion  a écrit :
> 
> I have randomly distributed surface points from a Post Processed Kinematic 
> GPS survey (accuracy ~10cm) and wish to calculate surface contours. The 
> reason for doing this is to have detailed data for all the shakeholes. Would 
> like to import the contours into Survex/Therion so these can be seen above 
> the cave.
> 
> Has anyone else done this and how ?
> 
> My current thinking is to use the QGIS Contour tool to generate the contours 
> and then import these into Survex/Therion as elevation strings using some 
> intermediate data format yet to be decided.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kevin  

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Re: [Therion] Point with entrance coordinates

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi Bruce,

No I didn’t set any custom variable, this is what I am looking for… (because I 
think that the info about the coordinates is an info that should be written on 
every maps and sections)… Tex variable would be great !

I just used the point label :
point X Y label -text "Lat : -6.129004Long : -77.992132Alt = 2884 m »
And for the ~vertical line, I added manually a line border with the option 
-clip off. I do not do that every time as it is a bit time-consumming to get a 
really nice result,…

About the header, yes, to simplify my thconfig files, I costumed a bit the 
initial header. If you are interested you can find my config file there (with 
some ugly or unfinished tests…) : https://github.com/robertxa/Th-Config-Xav

Cheers,
Xav


> Le 1 juil. 2018 à 05:36, Bruce Mutton via Therion  a écrit 
> :
> 
> > I am very pleased with the use and the outputs of Therion. 
> > However, for the map views and/or elevation (projected or extended) views, 
> > it always seems to me that there is a lack of a convenient way to add the 
> > entrance(s) coordinates somewhere. It could be inside the header, or near 
> > the given entrance on the drawing. 
>  
> Funny thing.  Someone just asked me about this sort of thing yesterday.  I 
> don’t have a solution, but would like to encourage anyone who would like to 
> make more metadata available to tex, so that people can add it to custom 
> headers, maps or atlas’.  One similar thing that comes to mind is something 
> Therion does not yet track as metadata, the locality or region that the cave 
> is in.  I see in that recent Tragaero’ pdf Xavier has what I suspect might be 
> a custom variable he sets in a layout (I’m guessing) and displays with a 
> customisation of the standard header.  I might see if I can also do that, as 
> there seems to be some interest locally.
>  
> Bruce
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[Therion] Point with entrance coordinates ?

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Dear all,I am very pleased with the use and the outputs of Therion. However, for the map views and/or elevation (projected or extended) views, it always seems to me that there is a lack of a convenient way to add the entrance(s) coordinates somewhere. It could be inside the header, or near the given entrance on the drawing. I think that this is an information that needs to be on a cave map. Some times ago, I tried to modify my header to add that information, but I could not find the right tex variables corresponding to the entrances coordinates.For the moment, I am always adding them by hand with the point « label » (see example in attachement). This solution does not convince me because this is not linked to the data I entered in the .th file.I am thus looking for a way to add those coordinates in a map, preferentially with a new point definition that read the coordinates from the survey data and print it to the map. What would be great is to also have an option to be able to print the coordinates on the map either in the map projection system (defined in the layout/thconfig) or in geographic coordinates (point u:coords -entrance  -latlong for instance?). Does anyone have an idea on how to do that ?Thanks for your lights, Cheers,Xavier

lemchanda-plan2017.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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[Therion] Therion and DEM

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Dear all,

For a quite large project, I am using a relatively high-resolution DEM (i.e. 1 
px = 1 m), and I am trying to use it within Therion to produce a .lox-3D file. 
I am however facing some problems:
If I export the full resolution DEM to a .th file (6540*4307 cells) with the 
line "grid 325816.2990788577 5106250.599820679 1 1 6540 4307 ». I have the 
error « therion: error -- dem.th [14] -- line too long ». This line 14 
correspond to the first row of the DEM. ASC parameters are « #NCOLS = 6540, 
NROWS   = 4307, XLLCORNER = 325816.2990788577, YLLCORNER =5106250.599820679, 
CELLSIZE = 1.0 »
If I export the DEM with a 5 m pixel resolution (1308*861 cells) (with the line 
"grid 325816.299079 5106250.59982 5.001161440185831 5.001161440185831 1308 861 
», I get the same error,
If I export the DEM with a 10 m pixel resolution (654 * 431 cells) (with the 
line « grid 325816.299079 5106250.59982 9.996519721577727 9.996519721577727 654 
431 »), everything compiles OK and the result is quite OK 
(https://www.groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/wp-content/themes/custom_theme/3d/JB.html
 ; be patient, it takes time to load), but not with the full resolution.

The process to build each .th DEM is exactly the same, I do not touch any end 
of line. I edit the .asc DEM with vi to translate it into a .th file.

I thus suspect that there is a size limitation for the DEM in Therion, I 
imagine a limitation in the number of row/columns of the DEM. 
Is that true ? 
If yes, what is this size limit for DEMs ?
As anyone an idea how to overtake that and use the full resolution DEM ?

Cheers,

Xavier

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[Therion] Syntax highlighting for therion files (.th, .th2 and .thconfig)

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Dear all,

I am not sure to have post this info for those who are interested in it.

I often edit my therion file inside an external editor as Textwrangler or 
Brackets. I wrote some configuration files for both softwares to color the 
Therion’s syntax. That is not complete, they may be still errors, but you can 
find them here :
For Texwrangler : https://github.com/robertxa/Therion-TextWrangler
For Brackets : https://github.com/robertxa/Therion-Brackets

Have a good weekend,

Xavier


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[Therion] Macos 10.11 (El Capitan) install

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi all,

I just downloaded the last development version (5.4.1+?) and tried to install 
it on my mac (El Capitan).
make configure-macosx and make went well, (I did not changed anything in the 
source files, that is great): At that stage, I could launch Therion or Xtherion 
locally, they work well. 
However, I faced some problems with sudo make install: I had an error because 
of writing permissions in usr/bin/. I am not a Macos guru, but if I good 
understood, from El Capitan, we do not have access to usr/bin/ even with a root 
login. I thus changed the makeinstall.tcl to copy the exec files to 
/usr/local/bin (Homebrew folder) for the macosx version (L30 to L33). I made 
some basics tests, and it seems working well. I opened a pull request for that 
in case it is relevant for all mac users.
For the loch install, I had the same problem, even with a « sudo make install » 
I have permissions errors to write in the folder /Applications/. I needed to 1) 
I need to edit the loch.app/Contents/ by creating a new MacOs Folder 2) copy 
the loch file to loch.app/Contents/MacOs/ and to copy manually the loch.app to 
/Applications/. I do not know if there is a way to automate that. I have not 
changed anything in the makeinstall.tcl for that.

Cheers,

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[Therion] Tex and language ?

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi all,

I am currently working on maps that can be in french or in spanish.

The thing is that I wrote some tex macros to add items in the header, like « 
Synthèse : X Y ». Inside a code tex-map/endcode block, I define the term « 
synthèse » as : \newtoks\thsynth \thsynth={Synthèse }. This is the french word. 
All my macros are in a config file placed in a parent folder.

In that case, each time I change the language to spanish with the therion « 
language es » command that I use in my thconfig files, I also need to change 
the definition of \thsynth in my code tex-map/endcode block to \newtoks\thsynth 
\thsynth={Síntesis}.

Is there a way to add a condition on the language in the code tex-map/endcode 
block to avoid changing manually the config file? 

In fact, I am looking for something like:
code tex-map
\if {language variable = es} \newtoks\thsynth \thsynth={Síntesis} 
\elsif {language variable = fr} \newtoks\thsynth \thsynth={Synthèse }
\else \newtoks\thsynth \thsynth={Synthesys}
\fi 
endcode

Thanks a lot for you lights,
Cheers,

Xavier


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Re: [Therion] Use splay shots as sketch morphing extra points

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi Evarista,

I am not a guru of distox2 + splays, and I may misunderstand your email, but in 
case it can help : 
In your .th file, the splay data are defined with a « -« either in the from 
point or in the to point. In consequence, you have no point attached to the 
splay data. If you want to use some of the splay data for morphing, I imagine 
that you need to turn them to real points, i.e. you need to change the « -« by 
the name of a new station. Depending of the number of splay you plan to use, it 
can be lots of work to find/transform them. if you do not want to take in 
account the shot in the cave statistics, you may use the flag : flags  
duplicate (p19 of the thbook).

Cheers,

Xav




> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 15:49, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi Phil,
> I have made a xvi file like you comment, but I want to use it to morph the 
> scanned  field sketches. I don’t know how to use the xvi to put the extra 
> point, like I do with the stations.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Evaristo Quiroga  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> El 25/09/2017 a las 22:16, Philippe Vernant via Therion escribió:
>> Hi Evaristo,
>> 
>> Yes you can, you can create a .xvi file by running therion with just the .th 
>> file of the survey. It will create a .xvi file that you can use in your .th2 
>> file to do a better sketch morphing.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Phil
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Sep 2017, at 21:32 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion 
>>> mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In my transition from paper to paperless survey, I have do a few survey 
>>> recording only the data from the DistoX2 with the tablet and draw the 
>>> sketch in paper.  Now I am try to do a better sketch morphing using the 
>>> splays data.
>>> 
>>> It is possible to use the splay shots to make extra points to do better 
>>> sketch morphing? 
>>> 
>>> Evaristo Quiroga
>>> 

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Re: [Therion] CaveView a 3D web viewer

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi all,

I have work on that a bit more on that. 

1) The developper has updated the code. See 
https://github.com/aardgoose/CaveView.js/issues/4 and 
https://github.com/aardgoose/CaveView.js/tree/master/build

2) I downloaded the missing files and the updates. I still have the same 
problem in my browser (Safari 10.1.2) :  « failed loading cave information »
In the debugger, I have the error : « XMLHttpRequest cannot load file […] Cross 
origin request are only supported for https »
A quick googling points that this is because I am working with Safari in local… 
I moved to Firefox, and that’s working. —> For mac Users, do not use Safari to 
test with local files !

Cheers,

Xavier


> Le 27 juil. 2017 à 15:43, Владимир Георгиев via Therion  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi
> 
> The CaveView project is really nice, and one of the especially good things is 
> that it is actively developed :)
> I have used it on our club's server to test and show the models of some 
> recent surveys.
> 
> It is very useful for uploading the models of the caves and demonstrating 
> them without the need to have Survex, Therion or another tool installed, 
> because it runs in any browser without the need for plugins. CaveView also 
> has some nice features like highlighting a specific height level, by specific 
> survey section, etc.
> When working with maps or demonstrating on my own PC I still use Loch or Aven 
> because I am used to them and they don't require setting up JS files, copying 
> of the generated LOX or 3D, etc.
> 
> Tomorrow when I have more time I will write some instructions on how to 
> 'install' it. If someone hasn't figured it out by then :)
> 
> Vladimir
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 11:15 PM, Xavier Robert via Therion 
> mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> I am also interested to be able to get a 3D view on line of the caves we 
> explored with my caving club.The demo is great. I thus have a look on the 
> project. Here are my comments if they can be useful for someone :
> 
> 1) That is true, we need a « CaveView.js », and this is not CV.js. This file 
> should be in the folder « js ». This folder needs to be in the folder 
> CaveView :
> build/
>   /—> index.thm
>   /—> CaveView
>/ /—> css
>/ /—> images
>/  /—> js
>   /   /   /—>CaveView.js
>   /   /—> lib
>   /—> surveys
>   /—> terrain
> 
> 2) As you, I got the problem of the missing file. I went to the fulldemo 
> website (https://aardgoose.github.io/CaveView.js/fulldemo.html 
> <https://aardgoose.github.io/CaveView.js/fulldemo.html>), and I open the 
> development plugin from Safari. I add a snapshot in attachment that show the 
> different scripts used by the website.
> 
> 3) From that website, I downloaded the CaveView.js missing file, and I copy 
> it on my computer under CaveView.js/build/js/
> 
> 4) I added my lox/3d files in my folder surveys and modified the index.html 
> to point to the 3d models I added, following the help file 
> (https://aardgoose.github.io/CaveView.js/installation.html 
> <https://aardgoose.github.io/CaveView.js/installation.html>).
> 
> 5) I try to open index.htm with my browser, with all the files on my 
> computer. I systematically get the error « failed loading cave information », 
> and then, I only have the bottom lines of the web page (infos on the mouse 
> gestures). I imagine that Bill, you get the same error. 
>   - I get that error both for .lox and .3d input files. 
>   - If I voluntary give a false path to the cave file, and I get the same 
> error. This error is probably due to the fact that the CaveView.js do not 
> find the cave input file.
>   - I then tried both, the full path (/Users/…/CaveView.js/build/), and 
> also the relative path (everything is inside CaveView.js/build/). I still get 
> the same error…
> 
> I am really far to be a web/javascript guru, and for the moment I did not 
> succeed to get a working webpage…
> 
> If needed, I can provide my whole folder !
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Xavier
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 27 juil. 2017 à 13:38, Bill Gee via Therion > <mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Wookey
>>  
>> Two comments ...  
>> First, you are right.  There is a file called CV.js.  However, it has only 
>> six lines.  There is one "import" and five "export" statements.  Somehow I 
>> doubt that it is really CaveView.js.
>>  
>> Second, the sample index.html file specifically calls out for CaveView.js.  
>> I looked at the page source for the online "full UI" demo and see that it 
&g

[Therion] Upgrade to Therion 5.4.0 or 5.4.1 on Macos X ?

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi all,

I am running Macos 10.10 , and I have already therion 5.3.16 installed via 
homebrew, as published in the wiki.

I am trying to updgrade Therion to the last version. However, I am facing some 
problems :
if I do a simple brew update, brew upgrade, brew tap homebrew/science, brew 
upgrade therion, I got the error : Error: homebrew/science/therion 
5.3.16.reinstall already installed. Indeed, a brew edit therion says that the 
dowload url is the 5.3.16. This formula is not updated. I tried to update it 
and made some tests on my computer (see further down).
If I try the solution proposed by Ladislav (2017/04/06 email : brew upgrade 
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ladislavb/homebrew-science/ladislavb-patch-5.4.0/therion.rb
 
),
 I get the error : curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found. 
After a search on the web, I found that the url changed to 
https://github.com/ladislavb/homebrew-science/blob/master/therion.rb. If I do a 
brew upgrade with that url, I got this error :
brew install 
https://github.com/ladislavb/homebrew-science/blob/master/therion.rb
 100,0%
Error: therion: 
/Users/robertxaold/Library/Caches/Homebrew/Formula/therion.rb:7: syntax error, 
unexpected '<'

 ^
/Users/robertxaold/Library/Caches/Homebrew/Formula/therion.rb:8: syntax error, 
unexpected '<'

 ^
/Users/robertxaold/Library/Caches/Homebrew/Formula/therion.rb:9: syntax error, 
unexpected '<'
  
   ^
/Users/robertxaold/Library/Caches/Homebrew/Formula/therion.rb:14: syntax error, 
unexpected '<'
  https://assets-cdn.github.c...
...   ^
I downloaded the therion.rb from 
https://github.com/ladislavb/homebrew-science/blob/master/therion.rb. If I do a 
brew upgrade with the therion.rb downloaded, I get the error :
Error: inreplace failed
Makefile:
  expected replacement of "all: outdirs $(OUTDIR)/therion doc " with "all: 
outdirs $(OUTDIR)/therion "
I have the same error with the url 
https://github.com/therion/therion/archive/v5.4.1.tar.gz. Indeed, in 5.4.x, the 
line in the Makefile is : all: version outdirs $(OUTDIR)/therion doc
I thus changed the corresponding line in therion.rb (L21) by inreplace 
"Makefile", "all: version outdirs $(OUTDIR)/therion doc ", "all: outdirs 
$(OUTDIR)/therion ". When I run brew upgrade —verbose therion.rb, I then got 
this error (after a while and a bunch of lines OK) :
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/make -C ./thlang
perl process.pl
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/make -C ./thchencdata
perl generate.pl
perl thsymbolsetlist.pl
tclsh thcsdata.tcl
make: *** No rule to make target `thchencdata.cxx', needed by `thchenc.o'.  
Stop.
make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
ASCII.TXT => ascii, ASCII, TT_ASCII ... done
CP1250.TXT => cp1250, CP1250, TT_CP1250 ... done
CP1251.TXT => cp1251, CP1251, TT_CP1251 ... done
CP1252.TXT => cp1252, CP1252, TT_CP1252 ... done
CP1253.TXT => cp1253, CP1253, TT_CP1253 ... done
8859-1.TXT => iso8859-1, ISO8859-1, TT_ISO8859_1 ... done
8859-2.TXT => iso8859-2, ISO8859-2, TT_ISO8859_2 ... done
8859-5.TXT => iso8859-5, ISO8859-5, TT_ISO8859_5 ... done
8859-7.TXT => iso8859-7, ISO8859-7, TT_ISO8859_7 ... done
processing conversion tables: E9, A128, U375 … done

I have the same error for both Therion 5.4.0 and 5.4.1. I checked in the 
therion-5.4.x folder, and the file thchencdata.cxx does not exists. It exists 
in the therion-5.1.16. 

I am not a C/C++/Tex specialist. I am stuck there. Is it a bug ? Does this file 
exists elsewhere on the Macos system ? Do I need to add a :
inreplace "Makefile ", " thchencdata.cxx ", " "?  

Cheers,

Xavier

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Re: [Therion] How to add authors of paper drawings, which is being digitized as therion scrap?

[Xavier Robert via Therion]

Hi,

I also faced this question several times.
- If I digitize a previous map without changing anything, I only add in 
the .th2 a -author « name of the original drawer », I do not include myself 
because I am not the author of the drawing.
- If I digitize a previous map with some changes due to my observations 
in the cave in question, I add in the th2 a -author « name of the original 
drawer » and a -author « my name », and yes, the 2 appear in the final drawing 
header.

Xavier


> Le 31 mars 2017 à 05:31, Martin Sluka via Therion  a écrit 
> :
> 
> The author of scrap should be who digitized the map. And it is obviously only 
> one person.
> 
> Authors of paper drawings should be in th file as part of - 
> survey/centerline. 
> 
> My understanding of Therion's rules.
> 
> m.s.
> 
> On Mar 31, 2017, at 11:55 AM, Nikita Kozlov via Therion  
> wrote:
> 
>> Consider following task:
>> 
>> Digitize old paper drawings of cave survey and include information 
>> about person who did digitizing and person who did drawings on paper.
>> 
>> How it should be done correctly with therion th2 syntax?
>> Are multiply -author command within same scrap supported (Ie oldest date 
>> corresponds to paper drawing, newest to digitising)?
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> Mykyta Kozlov.

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[Therion] scrap-drawn maps to small by factor 2

[Xavier Robert]

Hi Christian,

I had a quick look on your files.

First, open you th2 file : you have drawn the walls, but you do not have makes 
any stations. I think that the mistake comes from that. Maybe I am wrong, but 
if i have good understood the way Therion is working, for each scrap, you need 
to plot the stations (using the point "station", and having the option -name 5 
at testmine_03.testmine for instance). This the way to clip the drawing to the 
survey.

An other comment : in your *.th files, you define both
date 2016.05.16
and then
declination -2 degrees
If I good understood, the « date » option gives the date of the survey, not 
the date of the drawing (for that, you have to add it in each scrap of the *th2 
files). This date is used to correct from the declination.
In consequence, you do not have to add the declination -2 degrees after the 
date option if you have set it well ;-)

Cheers,

Xavier



> Le 26 mai 2016 à 17:08, Christian Rößler  a écrit 
> :
> 
> Am Dienstag, 17. Mai 2016, 20:01:12 schrieb Christian Rößler:
> 
> Hallo everybody,
> 
>>> I noticed a strange problem drawing a quick survey of a little adit
>>> today. This being a little adit I immediately noticed that the scale
>>> bar is off by a factor 2, as 20 real meters (in the adit) gave 10
>>> meters in the scale bar.
>> 
>> well, I cannot find any misconfiguration, and on the other hand I do not
>> think this could be a bug in Therion as other people would have surely
>> noticed such before me.
>> 
>> http://kartan.de/div/scaling_mishap.zip
>> http://kartan.de/div/scaling_mishap.tar.gz
> 
> could anyone reproduce this, or even better _not_ reproduce, so I at least 
> know I have done some mistake?
> 
> By the way: I have tried it on a friend's computer: Newly installed 
> Therion (Debian install); same result.
> 
> Best regards, Christian
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Therion on Mac El Capitan

[Xavier Robert]

Hi Phil,

I am also running therion and Xtherion under El capitan. That is true that I 
cannot open any thconfig file from whereon itself (it was working under the 
previous versions of Macos x). However, it is working if you are using the 
console : 
1) type : cd to/your/topo/folder
2) type : xtherion [yourfilename].thconfig

And from there, you are able to edit the thconfig, and also to load/edit all 
*.th2 files

Xav


> Le 27 mai 2016 à 16:34, Philippe Vernant  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> Does anyone runs therion under Mac OSX El Capitan. I can run xtherion, but it 
> does not want to open the files, there is no way to get them clickable. 
> I’ve tried the homebrew version and also compiled it myself but the results 
> are the same.
> 
> Any idea ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil
> 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Therion on OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your update.

I also had some difficulties to install Therion on OS X 10.7 because of the 
"getline" compilation error. After lots of searching, I manage to install 
Therion and XTherion, but I was not able to install Loch.

For those who are interested, the following explains the steps I followed :

1) Modify the Makefiles (see patch on the wiki) for therion and loch for OS 
X10.7

2) Then, run
cd /Applications/therion [Enter] 
make config-macosx [Enter] 
make [Enter] 

3) Modify temparory the file /usr/include/stdio.h . For that, you should edit 
the file with admin rights.
Comment the extension with getline (line '439 to 451 for me) (see 
https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9849 ):
BEFORE =
#if __DARWIN_C_LEVEL >= 200809L
#ifndef _SSIZE_T
#define _SSIZE_T
typedef __darwin_ssize_tssize_t;
#endif

__BEGIN_DECLS
int  dprintf(int, const char * __restrict, ...) __DARWIN_LDBL_COMPAT(dprintf) 
__printflike(2, 3) __OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
int  vdprintf(int, const char * __restrict, va_list) 
__DARWIN_LDBL_COMPAT(vdprintf) __printflike(2, 0) 
__OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
ssize_t getdelim(char ** __restrict, size_t * __restrict, int, FILE * 
__restrict) __OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
ssize_t getline(char ** __restrict, size_t * __restrict, FILE * __restrict) 
__OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
__END_DECLS
#endif /* __DARWIN_C_LEVEL >= 200809L  */
END_BEFORE

AFTER =
/* #if __DARWIN_C_LEVEL >= 200809L
 * #ifndef _SSIZE_T
 * #define _SSIZE_T
 * typedef __darwin_ssize_tssize_t;
 * #endif
 *
 * __BEGIN_DECLS
 * int  dprintf(int, const char * __restrict, ...) 
__DARWIN_LDBL_COMPAT(dprintf) __printflike(2, 3) 
__OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
 * int  vdprintf(int, const char * __restrict, va_list) 
__DARWIN_LDBL_COMPAT(vdprintf) __printflike(2, 0) 
__OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
 * ssize_t getdelim(char ** __restrict, size_t * __restrict, int, FILE * 
__restrict) __OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
 * ssize_t getline(char ** __restrict, size_t * __restrict, FILE * __restrict) 
__OSX_AVAILABLE_STARTING(__MAC_10_7, __IPHONE_4_3);
 * __END_DECLS
 * #endif  __DARWIN_C_LEVEL >= 200809L  */
END_AFTER

4) In the folder /therion , run
make clean [Enter]
make [Enter]

5) Modify back the /usr/include/stdio.h to its previous state (VTK compilation 
seems to need it !)

For me, that's working well.

Xav






Le 18 sept. 2012 à 14:12, Ladislav Blažek a écrit :

> Hi all,
> 
> as a fresh owner of MacBook I made raw guide how to build and install therion 
> on Mountain Lion - http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=install:osx10.8
> 
> Together with Stacho (big thanks) we made compilation/installation possible 
> but currently there is problem with Loch. Loch is running but I am not able 
> to open any file. 
> 
> After a lot of searching it seems that problem is related to combination of 
> 64 bit OS X 10.8 + wxWindows 2.9
> I am not able to build wxWindows 2.8 64bit as wxOSX/Carbon does not support 
> 64bit.
> 
> L. 
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

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[Therion] How to extract the length of each centerline ?

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your answers, that helps me a lot to understand how to use 
this database !
Regards,

Xav



Le 29 mai 2012 à 18:21, cawa sorix a écrit :

> Hi Xavier,
> 
> I understood you works on windows I think you can use a tools to do
> the first step for example :
> http://sqlitebrowser.sourceforge.net/
> 
> and create query on sql language to select the data you need with
> where conditions.
> 
> Regards,
> Laurent
> 
> 2012/5/29, Marco Corvi :
>> hi xavier,
>> 
>> just export as database, say with output "cave.sql",
>> make a db with it: "sqlite3 cave.db< cave.sql".
>> open the db and select from the table centreline: "sqlite3 cave.db" and at
>> the prompt
>> 
>> "select title, length from centreline;"
>> 
>> or "select title, length from centreline where title not null;"
>> use ".schema centreline" to see the fields of the table,
>> ".help"for help.
>> 
>> 
>> marco
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Xavier Robert 
>> To: Therion 
>> Cc: stephane lips 
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:43 AM
>> Subject: [Therion] How to extract the length of each centerline ?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am still working on the survey of the Jean-Bernard system in the French
>> Alps. I have a bunch of different centerlines series, and I need to extract
>> the length of each centerline to link them to the history of the
>> exploration/surveying.
>> 
>> I understood how to export the SQL database of the cave system, however, as
>> I do not know at all how to deal with SQL databases, I wondering if there is
>> there an easy way to extract this information with a command similar to
>> "export survey-list" ? The best will be an output like "centerline_ID -
>> Station_first - Station_last - Centerline_length - Topo_date" !
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Xavier
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Therion mailing list
>> Therion at speleo.sk
>> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] How to extract the length of each centerline ?

[Xavier Robert]

Hi all,

I am still working on the survey of the Jean-Bernard system in the French Alps. 
I have a bunch of different centerlines series, and I need to extract the 
length of each centerline to link them to the history of the 
exploration/surveying.

I understood how to export the SQL database of the cave system, however, as I 
do not know at all how to deal with SQL databases, I wondering if there is 
there an easy way to extract this information with a command similar to "export 
survey-list" ? The best will be an output like "centerline_ID - Station_first - 
Station_last - Centerline_length - Topo_date" !

Cheers,

Xavier

[Therion] wikipedia

[Xavier Robert]

Hi Martin,

If this is what you want, you can find mapping project on my caving club web 
site :

* for the Gouffre Jean-Bernard System : 
http://www.groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/01_04_topographie_jean_bernard.html?lang=en
* For our last Expedition in Borneo : 
http://www.groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/expeditions-borneo.html?lang=en (with 
sources)

Cheers,
Xavier



Le 13 déc. 2011 à 09:48, Martin Sluka a écrit :

> There is a request from one wikipedia editor:
> 
> x
> Are there any reliable, third party sources which can speak to the notability 
> of this software? I see that people are using it as witnessed by the articles 
> in newsletters; but, I don't see any reliable sources. WTucker (talk) 06:02, 
> 13 December 2011 (UTC)
> x
> 
> So may you add the links to your project pages or send me a link I'll do it.
> 
> Martin S.
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion



--
Xavier Robert
Chercheur CR2 - IRD
ISTerre - Maison des Géosciences
1381 rue de la Piscine - BP 53
38041 Grenoble Cedex 09
France

mail 1: xavier.robert at ird.fr
mail 2: xavier.robert at ujf-grenoble.fr
mail 3: xavier.robert01 at gmail.com

Phone :
Fax : 33 (0)4 76 51 40 58


xavier.robert01 at gmail.com







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[Therion] Problem with diving data

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Yes, I tried that with therion, and therion answer me that from count/tocount 
is not compatible with the declaration 'data diving'. That is why I made this 
remark !

Xav

Le 19 oct. 2011 à 13:17, Wookey a écrit :

> or for non-interleaved:
> 
> * data diving from fromdepth fromcount to todepth tocount compass 
> 
> Have you tried that and found problems (in either survex or therion)?

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[Therion] Problem with diving data

[Xavier Robert]

Hello

Thanks a lot for your answers. It solved my problem.

If I have a zero length leg at the beginning of each centerline, this is 
because i am importing all the data from visual topo files, and in vtopo, the 
first line is always a zero length leg to get the LRUD of the fist point. The 
strange thing is that I have that for normal and topofil data, and it is 
working very well. I do not understand why it create a metapost error when we 
use diving data.

And last thing about diving data : when we do a survey in a sump, we have 2 
ways to do it : 1) we use a tape, so the length is given between each station. 
2) We use a line that is marked every 2 to 5 m, and the length that we read  at 
each station is the length from the beginning of the sump/underwater survey. In 
that case, it works as a topofil/counter. However, it is not allowed in diving 
data declaration. It could be interesting to allow it this kind of data.

Cheers,

Xavier



Le 19 oct. 2011 à 10:51, Andrew Atkinson a écrit :

> Hello
> 
> So station 1_25 is the same as 4_1 and you have connected them together with 
> a zero length leg. Not sure why this does not work, but if you replace
> 
> 1_25 4_10.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0 0.0
> 
> with
> 
> equate 1_25 4_1
> 
> it gets rid of the stream of errors, I also find equates easier to read than 
> zero length legs, especially as you have a cross section of 0 which seems 
> unlikely.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On 19/10/11 09:13, Xavier Robert wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am currently trying to draw a map with diving data. But she I compile,
>> I receive a metapost error. This probably because of the structure of my
>> data, but even after reading The THbook and the Survex tutorial, I do
>> not understand where/why. Can someone give me any advise ?
>> 
>> I attach to this emai a zip file that contain :
>> - a simple part of my diving data, with its thconfig file
>> - The associated log file.
>> 
>> Thanks a lot !
>> 
>> Xav
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Xavier Robert
>> Chercheur/Researcher CR2 - IRD
>> ISTerre - Maison des Géosciences
>> 1381 rue de la Piscine - BP 53
>> 38041 Grenoble Cedex 09
>> France
>> 
>> Phone :
>> Fax : 33 (0)4 76 51 40 58
>> 
>> 
>> xavier.robert01 at gmail.com <mailto:xavier.robert01 at gmail.com>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Therion mailing list
>> Therion at speleo.sk
>> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
> ___
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

[Therion] Problem with diving data

[Xavier Robert]

Hi all,

I am currently trying to draw a map with diving data. But she I compile, I 
receive a metapost error. This probably because of the structure of my data, 
but even after reading The THbook and the Survex tutorial, I do not understand 
where/why. Can someone give me any advise ?

I attach to this emai a zip file that contain :
- a simple part of my diving data, with its thconfig file
- The associated log file.

Thanks a lot !

Xav


--
Xavier Robert
Chercheur/Researcher CR2 - IRD
ISTerre - Maison des Géosciences
1381 rue de la Piscine - BP 53
38041 Grenoble Cedex 09
France

Phone :
Fax : 33 (0)4 76 51 40 58


xavier.robert01 at gmail.com





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[Therion] strike and dip

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

Maybe some ideas :

Le 10 Feb 2011 à 05:43, Stacho Mudrak a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> we are solving a problem of adding a basic geological observations  
> (measurements) to therion.
> When measuring a planar feature (bedding or fault or others), you  
> measure strike and dip.
> When measuring linear features, trend and plunge is measured.
> In the case of faults, also whether it is dextral or sinistral fault  
> is determined and potentially a magnitude.
>
> My question is, do you have some idea/wish how to integrate these  
> into therion?

I have some experience with that as sometime I do geological/ 
microtectonic field work.

1) The easiest way I found to write these informations on a map and/or  
field book, this is to write as you wrote a T (for planes) oriented in  
regards to the strike. I am used to write the strike on the side of  
the T, and the dip at the base of the T.

For linear features, I just draw a line oriented in regards to the  
trend, with a point at the starting af the direction. I also write  
trend and plunge.

I attach to this email an example of what that gives.

For faults, this is a plan. When they are lines on the plan, I add a  
line inside the T, in regards to the side of where it plunges, and I  
write the value of the plunge. To say if it is a normal, inverse,  
dextral and/or senestral fault, one idea is maybe to write a N, I, D,  
S, ND, NS, ID or IS just above the T.


2) Another possibiliy to show these features is to use stereographic  
projections (Wulf or Schmidt diagrams), as it is usually done in  
publications (ex : 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:StereoprojectStructuralgeol.jpg) 
. BUT, that means that a routine should be written to produce the  
projections. And, for someone that is not used to work with these  
data, this is very hard to read/understand. Thus, I would prefer the  
first solution.


> Do you have some experience with it?
>
> Our first idea is to add a standard T symbol for strike and dip  
> measurement, but there is one problem. Orientation of this symbol is  
> not drawn, but it is measured (with compass). But its position is  
> given by position on the map. Should these measurements be entered  
> into a table (as centerline data are), or put as options with symbols?

I do not know if it possible, but I think that for me it would be  
easier to use this symbol with options, something like :

for a plan/fault : -plan "Strike" "Dip" -fault "type" - line  
"Plunge"  (with type = N or I or D or S or ND or NS or ID or IS)
for a line : -line "Trend" "Plunge"

 From that, you build the symbol (T/line+values) and then from the  
Strike or the Trend, you rotate the symbol.

If that helps, that's great !

Cheers,

Xavier


>
> Do you have any ideas or comments?


>
> Best regards, S.
>
>
>
>
> _______
> Therion mailing list
> Therion at speleo.sk
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

--
Xavier ROBERT
CIFAR Junior Fellow
GEOTOP, Département des Sciences de la Terre et de l'atmosphère
Université du Quebec a Montréal
CP , Succursale centre-ville
MONTREAL, Quebec
H3C 3P8

(1-514) 987-3000 poste 3592
xavier.robert01 at gmail.com

http://www.geotop.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=861&Itemid=148
http://www2.cifar.ca/research/junior-academy/cifar-junior-fellows/?i=331
http://picasaweb.google.com/xavier.robert01


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[Therion] Problems to produce extended elevation xvi file

[Xavier Robert]

Hi Martin,

Thanks a lot for your answer/help.

For information, I was running Therion 3.6 on a windows 7 in parallel  
on a macox 10.5. I tried with the same version of Therion directly on  
the mac system (but I never figure how the pdftex work...), and I get  
the same wrong generation. So I just tried with the unstable version  
on the windows, and there that works.

Cheers,

Xav


Le 3 Feb 2011 à 05:33, Martin Sluka a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> there is something wrong with the generation of your xvi file. I  
> just generate it with your dataset and it looks OK. Check attachment.
> 
>
> Check the beginnings of xvi files too
>
> m.
>
> Yours xvi:
>
> set XVIgrids {10.0 m}
> set XVIstations {
>  {   -3.02 1.85 B3}
>  {   -3.02 1.85 0}
>  {   -3.02 1.85 0}
>  {3.02-1.85 1}
>  {  1295534.13   -19.38 1}
>  {  1295534.90   -26.94 2}
>  {  1295531.03   -34.22 2}
>  {  1295536.30   -37.01 3}
>  {  1295539.02   -47.85 3}
>  {  1295538.47   -56.43 4}
>  {  1295544.98   -64.11 4}
>  {  1295548.45   -71.30 5}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 5}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 6}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 6}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 7}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 7}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 8}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 8}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 9}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 9}
>  {   -3.02 -8132.01 10}
> }
>
> My xvi:
>
> set XVIgrids {10.0 m}
> set XVIstations {
>  {  -39.3636.57 B3}
>  {  -39.3636.57 0}
>  {  -39.3636.57 0}
>  {  -33.3232.87 1}
>  {  -33.3232.87 1}
>  {  -21.6621.21 2}
>  {  -21.6621.21 2}
>  {   -4.5215.34 3}
>  {   -4.5215.34 3}
>  {   -2.33 7.78 4}
>  {   -2.33 7.78 4}
>  {3.89 0.50 5}
>  {3.89 0.50 5}
>  {9.36-2.28 6}
>  {9.36-2.28 6}
>  {   19.55   -13.13 7}
>  {   19.55   -13.13 7}
>  {   21.61   -21.71 8}
>  {   21.61   -21.71 8}
>  {   32.18   -29.39 9}
>  {   32.18   -29.39 9}
>  {   39.36   -36.57 10}
> }
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2.2.2011, at 21:20, Xavier Robert wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My first question : I am trying to draw an extended elevation for a  
>> small cave (before to go to the biggest one !). But, I do not  
>> arrive to produce any extended-elevation xvi file (The map/plan  
>> view is OK). The xvi file I got is systematically wrong : the  
>> stations are linked only 2 by 2, with no connections between each.  
>> Something must be wrong in my input files or in my understanding  
>> how to proceed extended-elevation, but I didn't find what, nor  
>> understood why... Does anyone have an idea ?
>>
>> My B3.th input file is :
>> **
>> encoding iso8859-2
>> survey B3 -title "B3" -entrance "B3"
>>
>>
>> centerline -extend right
>>  date 2010.07.16
>> cs lat-long
>> fix B3 46.101166833 6.78841683 2066.00
>>
>> # declination 0.00  degrees
>> team "G.S. Vulcain"
>>  units lenght meters
>>  units compass grad
>>  units clino grad
>>  data normal from to length compass clino left right up down
>>  flags surface
>> #extend right
>>  B3 00.0  0.0 0.  0.500  0.500   
>> 0.300  0.500
>>  0 11.8 355.0-35.  0.500   
>> 0.500  0.300  0.500
>>
>>  flags not surface
>>  1 24.19   285.   -50.   2.50   
>> 0.300   2.00   1.00
>>  2 34.60   100.   -21.  0.500
>> 1.50  0.500  0.500
>>  3 42.00   20.0   -82.  0.200   
>> 0.200   0.00  0.500
>>  4 52.43   240.   -55.  0.600   
>> 0.500   1.00  0.500
>>  5 61.56   80.0   -30.  0.500   
>> 0.500   1.00  0.500
>>  6 73.78   180.   -52.  0.300
>> 1.00   1.00   1.00
>>  7 82.24   380.   -85.  0.200
>> 1.50   3.00  0.500
>>  8 93.32   155.   -40.  0.300   
>> 0.400   1.00  0.500
&

[Therion] Problems to produce extended elevation xvi file

[Xavier Robert]

Hi,

My first question : I am trying to draw an extended elevation for a  
small cave (before to go to the biggest one !). But, I do not arrive  
to produce any extended-elevation xvi file (The map/plan view is OK).  
The xvi file I got is systematically wrong : the stations are linked  
only 2 by 2, with no connections between each. Something must be wrong  
in my input files or in my understanding how to proceed extended- 
elevation, but I didn't find what, nor understood why... Does anyone  
have an idea ?

My B3.th input file is :
**
encoding iso8859-2
  survey B3 -title "B3" -entrance "B3"


  centerline -extend right
date 2010.07.16
   cs lat-long
   fix B3 46.101166833 6.78841683 2066.00

   # declination 0.00  degrees
   team "G.S. Vulcain"
units lenght meters
units compass grad
units clino grad
data normal from to length compass clino left right up down
flags surface
#   extend right
B3 00.0  0.0 0.  0.500  0.500   
0.300  0.500
0 11.8 355.0-35.  0.500   
0.500  0.300  0.500

flags not surface
1 24.19   285.   -50.   2.50   
0.300   2.00   1.00
2 34.60   100.   -21.  0.500
1.50  0.500  0.500
3 42.00   20.0   -82.  0.200   
0.200   0.00  0.500
4 52.43   240.   -55.  0.600   
0.500   1.00  0.500
5 61.56   80.0   -30.  0.500   
0.500   1.00  0.500
6 73.78   180.   -52.  0.300
1.00   1.00   1.00
7 82.24   380.   -85.  0.200
1.50   3.00  0.500
8 93.32   155.   -40.  0.300   
0.400   1.00  0.500
9 102.58   165.  -50.  0.300   
0.400   1.00   1.00

# extend ignore 10

  endcenterline
  endsurvey
**

My thconfig is :
*
encoding  utf-8
  source B3.th

  # 2-LAYOUT
  # Debut de la definition du Layout "xviexport"
  layout xviexport
cs UTM32
# echelle a laquelle on veut dessiner la topo
scale 1 1000
# taille de la grille
grid-size 10 10 10 m
# mettre la grille en arrière plan
grid bottom
  endlayout
  # fin de la définition du layout "xviexport"

  # 3-EXPORTS
  #export map -fmt xvi -layout xviexport -o B3-map.xvi
  export map -proj extended -layout xviexport -fmt xvi -o B3-coupe.xvi

  #export map -o B3-plan.pdf -layout my_layout
  #export map -projection extended -layout my_layout -o B3-coupe.pdf
*

My xvi file is attached to this e-mail

Thanks a lot !

Xav

--
Xavier ROBERT
CIFAR Junior Fellow
GEOTOP, Département des Sciences de la Terre et de l'atmosphère
Université du Quebec a Montréal
CP , Succursale centre-ville
MONTREAL, Quebec
H3C 3P8

(1-514) 987-3000 poste 3592
xavier.robert01 at gmail.com

http://www.geotop.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=861&Itemid=148
http://www2.cifar.ca/research/junior-academy/cifar-junior-fellows/?i=331
http://picasaweb.google.com/xavier.robert01


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[Therion] Presentation

[Xavier Robert]

Hi all,

Trying to use Therion since some months, I subscribe to this mailing  
list, and thus present myself.

I am a french caver from the Vulcain caving club in France (Lyon, 
http://www.groupe-speleo-vulcain.com/ 
  ) and do lots of mapping since 5/6 years or so through our  
explorations in the Folly massif (Samoens, France, we are still  
working on the Jean Bernard system and Combe aux Puaires system), Ain  
department and in expeditions in Asia.

I am currently trying to synthesize all the survey data from the Jean- 
Bernard and Combe aux Puaires system (something like 40 km today, data  
base with more than 400 karstic phenomena). All our data where papers,  
visual topo and illustrator files. But to permit evolution of the map  
after each new surveying, I remarked that it was not possible with  
vtopo/illustrator without redrawing each time new junctions are done.  
That's why I came to Therion.

Just for information, I do not know if some of you are interested in,  
but to be able to use my vtopo files in Therion, I wrote a small buggy  
code in Fortran to produce .th and thconfig files from .tro files. I  
am not really an informatician, so the code is not clean. However, if  
some of you need it, ask me !

Now, you know me !

Cheers,

Xav


--
Xavier ROBERT
CIFAR Junior Fellow
GEOTOP, Département des Sciences de la Terre et de l'atmosphère
Université du Quebec a Montréal
CP , Succursale centre-ville
MONTREAL, Quebec
H3C 3P8

(1-514) 987-3000 poste 3592
xavier.robert01 at gmail.com

http://www.geotop.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=861&Itemid=148
http://www2.cifar.ca/research/junior-academy/cifar-junior-fellows/?i=331
http://picasaweb.google.com/xavier.robert01