Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Kit by KO4BB

[Chris Albertson]

The Raspberry Pi idea is good because for your $100 it can do a few other
tasks at the same time.

It can run LH but also maybe she other services like  NTP,  a small web
server and also a WiFi based backup server that backs up any notebook
computers you have (it such a hassle to plug in an external drive to a
notebook that few people do it.   So I have mine do an hourly backup over
WiFi.)

I have a Pi3 on my desk right now and yes, it is more than powerful enough
and would be under utilized even with a half dozen light weight servers
running.

So a $100 t-bolt monitor is rather expensive but if you can get four of
five other functions at the same price, maybe worth it.

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Mark Sims  wrote:

> The K04BB device is a great little relatively inexpensive and compact
> Thunderbolt monitor.
>
> Another option is to use a Raspberry PI and the 7" color LCD touchscreen
> along with the latest Lady Heather code.   I've added touchscreen support
> and some optimizations to the screen code for better display on smaller
> screens.  The combo makes for a very nice package that shows pretty much
> everything and lets you control the unit from the touchscreen.   The PI +
> touchscreen does cost around $100 though.  I've seen some really nice
> builds, such as Willis Hendly's,  with the Tbolt, power supply, and
> PI/touchscreen (I think he actually uses a Beaglebone) mounted in a box.
> Perhaps he will do a post showing his implementation.
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Kit by KO4BB

[Ben Hall]

On 7/3/2017 11:50 AM, Mark Sims wrote:

The K04BB device is a great little relatively inexpensive and compact
Thunderbolt monitor.

Another option is to use a Raspberry PI and the 7" color LCD
touchscreen along with the latest Lady Heather code.   


A modification on the above option - instead of a dedicated display, 
enable the VNC server on the RPi and use RealVNC on your main computer 
as the display for the RPi.  I'm working on this as the setup for my 
second TruePosition board.


It works pretty well.  Here is a screen-shot from my desktop PC using 
RealVNC into the VNC Server on my RPi running Lady Heather, but without 
the TruePosition hooked up yet:




thanks much and 73,
ben, kd5byb
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Kit by KO4BB

[Richard Solomon]

I would like to see what he has done. I have a Raspberry Pi and a Touch Screen 
just

waiting for an application.


73, Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

From: time-nuts  on behalf of Mark Sims 

Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 9:50:35 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Kit by KO4BB

The K04BB device is a great little relatively inexpensive and compact 
Thunderbolt monitor.

Another option is to use a Raspberry PI and the 7" color LCD touchscreen along 
with the latest Lady Heather code.   I've added touchscreen support and some 
optimizations to the screen code for better display on smaller screens.  The 
combo makes for a very nice package that shows pretty much everything and lets 
you control the unit from the touchscreen.   The PI + touchscreen does cost 
around $100 though.  I've seen some really nice builds, such as Willis 
Hendly's,  with the Tbolt, power supply, and PI/touchscreen (I think he 
actually uses a Beaglebone) mounted in a box.  Perhaps he will do a post 
showing his implementation.
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Kit by KO4BB

[Mark Sims]

The K04BB device is a great little relatively inexpensive and compact 
Thunderbolt monitor.

Another option is to use a Raspberry PI and the 7" color LCD touchscreen along 
with the latest Lady Heather code.   I've added touchscreen support and some 
optimizations to the screen code for better display on smaller screens.  The 
combo makes for a very nice package that shows pretty much everything and lets 
you control the unit from the touchscreen.   The PI + touchscreen does cost 
around $100 though.  I've seen some really nice builds, such as Willis 
Hendly's,  with the Tbolt, power supply, and PI/touchscreen (I think he 
actually uses a Beaglebone) mounted in a box.  Perhaps he will do a post 
showing his implementation.
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Kit by KO4BB . . . again

[Steve65]

In 2016 I bought one of the KO4BB Thunderbolt Monitor Kits. I'm just now 
getting around to thinking about an enclosure in which to mount the 
device. I'd appreciate learning what others may have already done. 
Anyone care to share experience as to mounting and power? Pictures perhaps?


Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Kit by KO4BB

[Steve65]

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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor kits available doon

[Didier Juges]

Finally, by popular demand, another batch of Thunderbolt Monitors are coming...

Check http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=the-thunderbolt-monitor-kit



Didier KO4BB

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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor upgrade

[Didier Juges]

Here comes a brief but shameless plug :)

I just released a significant upgrade to my Thunderbolt monitor with
support for an optional WiFi module that can emulate John Miles' Lady
Heather Server functionality. It allows you to remotely monitor your
Thunderbolt via your home network, or over the internet using Lady Heather,
without tying a computer and while saving some money with electricity.

Please note that while I will upgrade a kit's software for free, I do not
sell an upgrade kit, you have to buy the parts yourself, unless enough
people were interested.

The kit's page on my web site has more information, including a new version
of the manual with all the details.

Contact me off-list for any question.

Didier KO4BB

www.ko4bb.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[paul swed]

I guess the funny comment here is that yes the monitor can be done on
anything including a commodore 64 or apple II.
But the thread started with Diddier suggesting a $60 US solution and he
would write up and package the boards and parts and thats quite reasonable.
Anyone willing to take on the real effort of kitting things is really
performing quite the service to us time-nuts.
Best regards
Paul


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Götz Romahn  wrote:

> hallo all,
> if you are a notorious DIYer, have some soldering skills and know how to
> program an ATmega8515 microprocessor, have a look at:
> http://www.g-romahn.de/**tbolt2lcd/index.htm
> for a simple small Thunderbolt monitor
> cheers Götz
>
> Am 17.08.2013 17:53, :
>
>> This is a repost with a new thread. Sorry for the bandwidth.
>>
>> Looking at the high price (and closed software) of what is currently
>> offered, I have been thinking of making a kit of my GPSMonitor (see
>> KO4BB.com)
>>
>> I think I could sell an assembled and tested kit with a 2x16 char display
>> for $60 or so if I get 50 people interested.
>>
>> This will use a professionally made PWB with surface mounted components.
>>
>> Of course, the source code is free. You do not have to buy anything from
>> me. You can build your own using info on my web site.
>>
>> If anyone is interested, send me a private message.
>>
>> Didier KO4BB
>>
>
> __**_
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Erno Peres]

Hi Götz,

very nice handy project, just to watch the TB without a PC.
You should have as a KIT .

Best regards,
Ernie.




-Original Message-
From: Götz Romahn 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Sent: Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:52 pm
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor


hallo all,
f you are a notorious DIYer, have some soldering skills and know how to 
rogram an ATmega8515 microprocessor, have a look at:
ttp://www.g-romahn.de/tbolt2lcd/index.htm
or a simple small Thunderbolt monitor
heers Götz
Am 17.08.2013 17:53, :
 This is a repost with a new thread. Sorry for the bandwidth.

 Looking at the high price (and closed software) of what is currently offered, 
 have been thinking of making a kit of my GPSMonitor (see KO4BB.com)

 I think I could sell an assembled and tested kit with a 2x16 char display for 
60 or so if I get 50 people interested.

 This will use a professionally made PWB with surface mounted components.

 Of course, the source code is free. You do not have to buy anything from me. 
ou can build your own using info on my web site.

 If anyone is interested, send me a private message.

 Didier KO4BB
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Götz Romahn]

hallo all,
if you are a notorious DIYer, have some soldering skills and know how to 
program an ATmega8515 microprocessor, have a look at:

http://www.g-romahn.de/tbolt2lcd/index.htm
for a simple small Thunderbolt monitor
cheers Götz

Am 17.08.2013 17:53, :

This is a repost with a new thread. Sorry for the bandwidth.

Looking at the high price (and closed software) of what is currently offered, I 
have been thinking of making a kit of my GPSMonitor (see KO4BB.com)

I think I could sell an assembled and tested kit with a 2x16 char display for 
$60 or so if I get 50 people interested.

This will use a professionally made PWB with surface mounted components.

Of course, the source code is free. You do not have to buy anything from me. 
You can build your own using info on my web site.

If anyone is interested, send me a private message.

Didier KO4BB


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Bob Camp]

Hi

In comparison to a 50 piece one off run, consider that most of these low end 
promo boards are produced at the > 5 K a month level, with heavily discounted 
parts on them. Many of them are sold through distribution. Many (likely the 
bulk) of them are given away on a "listen to our presentation and get a free 
board" basis. Production volume matters, free parts do make a difference on 
that bill of material  ….

Bob

On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:53 AM, Didier Juges  wrote:

> This is a repost with a new thread. Sorry for the bandwidth.
> 
> Looking at the high price (and closed software) of what is currently offered, 
> I have been thinking of making a kit of my GPSMonitor (see KO4BB.com)
> 
> I think I could sell an assembled and tested kit with a 2x16 char display for 
> $60 or so if I get 50 people interested.
> 
> This will use a professionally made PWB with surface mounted components.
> 
> Of course, the source code is free. You do not have to buy anything from me. 
> You can build your own using info on my web site.
> 
> If anyone is interested, send me a private message.
> 
> Didier KO4BB
> -- 
> Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other 
> things.
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Didier Juges]

This is a repost with a new thread. Sorry for the bandwidth.

Looking at the high price (and closed software) of what is currently offered, I 
have been thinking of making a kit of my GPSMonitor (see KO4BB.com)

I think I could sell an assembled and tested kit with a 2x16 char display for 
$60 or so if I get 50 people interested.

This will use a professionally made PWB with surface mounted components.

Of course, the source code is free. You do not have to buy anything from me. 
You can build your own using info on my web site.

If anyone is interested, send me a private message.

Didier KO4BB
-- 
Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other 
things.
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (netduino based project)

[Steve Jacobs]

Hi,

For those of you with Trimble Thunderbolts, I thought that you might want
to know about a open source LCD/monitor/controller project that is now
available. James, M1DST designed this project to run on the Netduino
platform. The features are similar to VK4GHZ's commander/monitor with one
notable exception, James added an NTP time server. I believe that he has a
very limited number of circuit boards (shield kits) available if any one is
interested. Source code and schematic can be found in the links below:

http://www.m1dst.co.uk/category/projects/trimble-thunderbolt-monitor/
https://github.com/m1dst/Trimble-Thunderbolt-Monitor


73, Steve N0XC
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[shalimr9]

Have you checked my page?

Http://www.ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor

The Toolstick is readily available

Didier KO4BB

Sent from my Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker.



-Original Message-
From: "Major L. McGee III" 
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 10:32 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

I have been following this on the list for a while now and was curious 
if anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one 
made by Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track 
for wanting to make one of my own.

I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have issues 
with a usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go 
haywire and cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.  Once I 
disconnect the converter (I have tried other makes as well) it works 
fine.  Usually I can reconnect the converter and things will work again.

What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to display 
various info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can 
see that being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the 
thunderbolt used a ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit 
floating point math".

So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to quit and 
have any information to share?


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Bob Camp]

Hi

My original comment was in reply to your suggestion of porting Lady Heather 
into a MSP430. I took that to be your outline of your project. My reply was 
simply that Lady Heather is a very complex and full featured program. It does 
*way* more than just look at a serial stream and tell you a few simple things. 

If the project has now changed into something else, then so be it.

Bob

On Jan 23, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> You realy can't know if a processor is to large or small until you
> have at least a outline of the software design.In this case the uP
> is reading test from a serial port at a low data rate.   It is running
> a filter and sending a small amount of text back to the GPS.   So the
> load on the CPU is trivial.The harder part is sending that data
> off to a larger computer, likely using Ethernet.  It coud use UDP at
> one second per packet.  Depends on how much you want to do on the
> device.
> 
> That MSP430 is going to be used to interface an anemometer (wind cups)
> 
> Mymethod normally is to do as much development as I can on a big
> computer like my Mac.  Then move the software down to the target
> environment.
> 
> TI sells another Launch pad for $18 that uses an ARM.  This is a much
> more capable CPU but for data logging maybe over kill.   But if the
> plan was to host a web server you'd need something like the ARM.
> 
> But actually the AVR inside the Arduino can run a web interface. but
> with ARM powered LaunchPads for $18 I'd go with that.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM, James Harrison
>  wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> Absolutely - however, I suspect the MSP430 might be a little too small.
>> 
>> I'd be looking at something like a Raspberry Pi and a serially
>> attached screen. Adafruit do some lovely boards like these:
>> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1115
>> 
>> It's not $5 but it's not exactly exorbitant. Or just use a Pi and a
>> HDMI capable TV if you have one spare.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> James Harrison
>> 
>> On 23/01/2013 19:55, Chris Albertson wrote:
>>> You can't compare the size of a Windows binary to a uP RAM.   If
>>> you look inside the .exe file you see that 90% of it is dealing
>>> with the Windows OS.   The actual computations are very, very small
>>> and don't use even half the 16KB Flash.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> Heathdos.exe 123 KB Heather.exe 572 KB Server.exe 176 KB
>>>> 
>>>> (each would be plus what ever they pull from DLL's and the OS)
>>>> 
>>>> Ti LaunchPad MSP-EXP430G2 - MSP 430 version ($4.30):
>>>> 
>>>> MSP-430G2553 Microcontroller:
>>>> 
>>>> 16 KB flash 512 B RAM
>>>> 
>>>> MSP-430G2452 Microcontroller:
>>>> 
>>>> 8 KB flash 256 B RAM
>>>> 
>>>> I suspect you would get about 5% of it into a MSP430.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
>>>> [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:44 AM To: Major L. McGee
>>>> III; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor
>>>> 
>>>> I was looking into porting much of LH into an Arduino or TI
>>>> Launch Pad (msp430) And then a display would be web based.  But
>>>> then I decided to go back to grad school and there went any free
>>>> time.
>>>> 
>>>> But I think that is that way to go.  The TB is best kept in some
>>>> light-out closet and who wants to stand of a step stool to read
>>>> an LCD when a web interface could put a better display on your
>>>> smart phone or computer
>>>> 
>>>> I did just buy a TI Launchpad.  For $4.30 shipping included I
>>>> could not resist but I have in mind a MUCH smaller project
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Major L. McGee III
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> I have been following this on the list for a while now and was
>>>>> curious if anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.
>>>>> I see the one made
>>>> by
>>>>> Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track
>>>>>

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Chris Albertson]

You realy can't know if a processor is to large or small until you
have at least a outline of the software design.In this case the uP
is reading test from a serial port at a low data rate.   It is running
a filter and sending a small amount of text back to the GPS.   So the
load on the CPU is trivial.The harder part is sending that data
off to a larger computer, likely using Ethernet.  It coud use UDP at
one second per packet.  Depends on how much you want to do on the
device.

That MSP430 is going to be used to interface an anemometer (wind cups)

Mymethod normally is to do as much development as I can on a big
computer like my Mac.  Then move the software down to the target
environment.

TI sells another Launch pad for $18 that uses an ARM.  This is a much
more capable CPU but for data logging maybe over kill.   But if the
plan was to host a web server you'd need something like the ARM.

But actually the AVR inside the Arduino can run a web interface. but
with ARM powered LaunchPads for $18 I'd go with that.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM, James Harrison
 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Absolutely - however, I suspect the MSP430 might be a little too small.
>
> I'd be looking at something like a Raspberry Pi and a serially
> attached screen. Adafruit do some lovely boards like these:
> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1115
>
> It's not $5 but it's not exactly exorbitant. Or just use a Pi and a
> HDMI capable TV if you have one spare.
>
> Cheers,
> James Harrison
>
> On 23/01/2013 19:55, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> You can't compare the size of a Windows binary to a uP RAM.   If
>> you look inside the .exe file you see that 90% of it is dealing
>> with the Windows OS.   The actual computations are very, very small
>> and don't use even half the 16KB Flash.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Heathdos.exe 123 KB Heather.exe 572 KB Server.exe 176 KB
>>>
>>> (each would be plus what ever they pull from DLL's and the OS)
>>>
>>> Ti LaunchPad MSP-EXP430G2 - MSP 430 version ($4.30):
>>>
>>> MSP-430G2553 Microcontroller:
>>>
>>> 16 KB flash 512 B RAM
>>>
>>> MSP-430G2452 Microcontroller:
>>>
>>> 8 KB flash 256 B RAM
>>>
>>> I suspect you would get about 5% of it into a MSP430.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
>>> [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:44 AM To: Major L. McGee
>>> III; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor
>>>
>>> I was looking into porting much of LH into an Arduino or TI
>>> Launch Pad (msp430) And then a display would be web based.  But
>>> then I decided to go back to grad school and there went any free
>>> time.
>>>
>>> But I think that is that way to go.  The TB is best kept in some
>>> light-out closet and who wants to stand of a step stool to read
>>> an LCD when a web interface could put a better display on your
>>> smart phone or computer
>>>
>>> I did just buy a TI Launchpad.  For $4.30 shipping included I
>>> could not resist but I have in mind a MUCH smaller project
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Major L. McGee III
>>>  wrote:
>>>> I have been following this on the list for a while now and was
>>>> curious if anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.
>>>> I see the one made
>>> by
>>>> Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track
>>>> for
>>> wanting
>>>> to make one of my own.
>>>>
>>>> I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have
>>>> issues with
>>> a
>>>> usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go
>>>> haywire and cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.
>>>> Once I disconnect the converter (I have tried other makes as
>>>> well) it works fine.  Usually I can reconnect the converter and
>>>> things will work again.
>>>>
>>>> What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to
>>>> display
>>> various
>>>> info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can
>>>> see that being very useful.  On a 

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I do believe I included the size of the DOS exe as well as the Windows
version. Both get *some* support from the OS that you will need to implement
in your code. 

It's not just program space either. You only have 512 bytes of RAM on the
larger of the two processors.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:55 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

You can't compare the size of a Windows binary to a uP RAM.   If you
look inside the .exe file you see that 90% of it is dealing with the
Windows OS.   The actual computations are very, very small and don't
use even half the 16KB Flash.



On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Heathdos.exe 123 KB
> Heather.exe 572 KB
> Server.exe 176 KB
>
> (each would be plus what ever they pull from DLL's and the OS)
>
> Ti LaunchPad MSP-EXP430G2 - MSP 430 version ($4.30):
>
> MSP-430G2553 Microcontroller:
>
> 16 KB flash
> 512 B RAM
>
> MSP-430G2452 Microcontroller:
>
> 8 KB flash
> 256 B RAM
>
> I suspect you would get about 5% of it into a MSP430.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Chris Albertson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:44 AM
> To: Major L. McGee III; Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor
>
> I was looking into porting much of LH into an Arduino or TI Launch Pad
> (msp430) And then a display would be web based.  But then I decided to
> go back to grad school and there went any free time.
>
> But I think that is that way to go.  The TB is best kept in some
> light-out closet and who wants to stand of a step stool to read an LCD
> when a web interface could put a better display on your smart phone or
> computer
>
> I did just buy a TI Launchpad.  For $4.30 shipping included I could
> not resist but I have in mind a MUCH smaller project
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Major L. McGee III 
> wrote:
>> I have been following this on the list for a while now and was curious if
>> anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one made
> by
>> Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track for
> wanting
>> to make one of my own.
>>
>> I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have issues
with
> a
>> usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go haywire
and
>> cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.  Once I disconnect the
>> converter (I have tried other makes as well) it works fine.  Usually I
can
>> reconnect the converter and things will work again.
>>
>> What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to display
> various
>> info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can see that
>> being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the thunderbolt used
> a
>> ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit floating point
math".
>>
>> So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to quit and
> have
>> any information to share?
>>
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
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> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[James Harrison]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Absolutely - however, I suspect the MSP430 might be a little too small.

I'd be looking at something like a Raspberry Pi and a serially
attached screen. Adafruit do some lovely boards like these:
http://www.adafruit.com/products/1115

It's not $5 but it's not exactly exorbitant. Or just use a Pi and a
HDMI capable TV if you have one spare.

Cheers,
James Harrison

On 23/01/2013 19:55, Chris Albertson wrote:
> You can't compare the size of a Windows binary to a uP RAM.   If
> you look inside the .exe file you see that 90% of it is dealing
> with the Windows OS.   The actual computations are very, very small
> and don't use even half the 16KB Flash.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Heathdos.exe 123 KB Heather.exe 572 KB Server.exe 176 KB
>> 
>> (each would be plus what ever they pull from DLL's and the OS)
>> 
>> Ti LaunchPad MSP-EXP430G2 - MSP 430 version ($4.30):
>> 
>> MSP-430G2553 Microcontroller:
>> 
>> 16 KB flash 512 B RAM
>> 
>> MSP-430G2452 Microcontroller:
>> 
>> 8 KB flash 256 B RAM
>> 
>> I suspect you would get about 5% of it into a MSP430.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
>> [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:44 AM To: Major L. McGee
>> III; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor
>> 
>> I was looking into porting much of LH into an Arduino or TI
>> Launch Pad (msp430) And then a display would be web based.  But
>> then I decided to go back to grad school and there went any free
>> time.
>> 
>> But I think that is that way to go.  The TB is best kept in some 
>> light-out closet and who wants to stand of a step stool to read
>> an LCD when a web interface could put a better display on your
>> smart phone or computer
>> 
>> I did just buy a TI Launchpad.  For $4.30 shipping included I
>> could not resist but I have in mind a MUCH smaller project
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Major L. McGee III
>>  wrote:
>>> I have been following this on the list for a while now and was
>>> curious if anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.
>>> I see the one made
>> by
>>> Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track
>>> for
>> wanting
>>> to make one of my own.
>>> 
>>> I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have
>>> issues with
>> a
>>> usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go
>>> haywire and cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.
>>> Once I disconnect the converter (I have tried other makes as
>>> well) it works fine.  Usually I can reconnect the converter and
>>> things will work again.
>>> 
>>> What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to
>>> display
>> various
>>> info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can
>>> see that being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said
>>> the thunderbolt used
>> a
>>> ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit floating
>>> point math".
>>> 
>>> So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to
>>> quit and
>> have
>>> any information to share?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___ time-nuts
>>> mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and
>>> follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California 
>> ___ time-nuts mailing
>> list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and
>> follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> ___ time-nuts mailing
>> list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and
>> follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)

iEYEARECAAYFAlEASkoACgkQ22kkGnnJQAzUCgCfT5V3oRBoq/FfHmv6dZSDet2k
fuUAnRZO3g6eU+V8Zn1ubupYDbNeywef
=GHLi
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Chris Albertson]

You can't compare the size of a Windows binary to a uP RAM.   If you
look inside the .exe file you see that 90% of it is dealing with the
Windows OS.   The actual computations are very, very small and don't
use even half the 16KB Flash.



On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Heathdos.exe 123 KB
> Heather.exe 572 KB
> Server.exe 176 KB
>
> (each would be plus what ever they pull from DLL's and the OS)
>
> Ti LaunchPad MSP-EXP430G2 - MSP 430 version ($4.30):
>
> MSP-430G2553 Microcontroller:
>
> 16 KB flash
> 512 B RAM
>
> MSP-430G2452 Microcontroller:
>
> 8 KB flash
> 256 B RAM
>
> I suspect you would get about 5% of it into a MSP430.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Chris Albertson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:44 AM
> To: Major L. McGee III; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor
>
> I was looking into porting much of LH into an Arduino or TI Launch Pad
> (msp430) And then a display would be web based.  But then I decided to
> go back to grad school and there went any free time.
>
> But I think that is that way to go.  The TB is best kept in some
> light-out closet and who wants to stand of a step stool to read an LCD
> when a web interface could put a better display on your smart phone or
> computer
>
> I did just buy a TI Launchpad.  For $4.30 shipping included I could
> not resist but I have in mind a MUCH smaller project
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Major L. McGee III 
> wrote:
>> I have been following this on the list for a while now and was curious if
>> anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one made
> by
>> Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track for
> wanting
>> to make one of my own.
>>
>> I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have issues with
> a
>> usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go haywire and
>> cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.  Once I disconnect the
>> converter (I have tried other makes as well) it works fine.  Usually I can
>> reconnect the converter and things will work again.
>>
>> What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to display
> various
>> info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can see that
>> being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the thunderbolt used
> a
>> ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit floating point math".
>>
>> So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to quit and
> have
>> any information to share?
>>
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Nathaniel Bezanson]

Chris Albertson  wrote:
> The TB is best kept in some light-out
> closet and who wants to stand of a step 
> stool to read an LCD when a web interface 
> could put a better display on your smart 
> phone or computer

I don't have a way to play with it right now, but in the single-user case, is 
LH Server.exe equivalent to a simple IP console server?

If so, I think the low-hanging fruit would be to drop an old Lantronix serial 
port server into the rack, and just use your existing lan/wifi to run the 
client on your laptop or whatever. No custom anything.

-Nate-
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[GandalfG8]

What about Didier's original design?..
 
_http://ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor/_ (http://ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor/) 
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
In a message dated 23/01/2013 16:32:36 GMT Standard Time, maj...@sc.rr.com  
writes:

I have  been following this on the list for a while now and was curious 
if anyone  is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one 
made by  Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track 
for  wanting to make one of my own.

I have been using either tbmon or lady  heather but always have issues 
with a usb to serial converter when I start  the computer.  It will go 
haywire and cause it to freeze and make the  mouse malfunction.  Once I 
disconnect the converter (I have tried  other makes as well) it works 
fine.  Usually I can reconnect the  converter and things will work again.

What I would like to do is make a  2 or 4 line lcd readout to display 
various info.  I really liked  VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can 
see that being very  useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the 
thunderbolt used a  ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit 
floating point  math".

So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to  quit and 
have any information to  share?


___
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Heathdos.exe 123 KB
Heather.exe 572 KB
Server.exe 176 KB

(each would be plus what ever they pull from DLL's and the OS)

Ti LaunchPad MSP-EXP430G2 - MSP 430 version ($4.30):

MSP-430G2553 Microcontroller:

16 KB flash
512 B RAM

MSP-430G2452 Microcontroller:

8 KB flash
256 B RAM

I suspect you would get about 5% of it into a MSP430.

Bob



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:44 AM
To: Major L. McGee III; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

I was looking into porting much of LH into an Arduino or TI Launch Pad
(msp430) And then a display would be web based.  But then I decided to
go back to grad school and there went any free time.

But I think that is that way to go.  The TB is best kept in some
light-out closet and who wants to stand of a step stool to read an LCD
when a web interface could put a better display on your smart phone or
computer

I did just buy a TI Launchpad.  For $4.30 shipping included I could
not resist but I have in mind a MUCH smaller project

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Major L. McGee III 
wrote:
> I have been following this on the list for a while now and was curious if
> anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one made
by
> Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track for
wanting
> to make one of my own.
>
> I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have issues with
a
> usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go haywire and
> cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.  Once I disconnect the
> converter (I have tried other makes as well) it works fine.  Usually I can
> reconnect the converter and things will work again.
>
> What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to display
various
> info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can see that
> being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the thunderbolt used
a
> ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit floating point math".
>
> So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to quit and
have
> any information to share?
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Major L. McGee III]

John and Ken that did the trick.  I ended up trying the easiest option 
first since I already had device manager up and it worked like a charm.


I'll look into Arduino for some options for the lcd project.  I keep my 
Thunderbolt right beside my frequency counter and leave both of them on 
all the time attached to a good UPS.  The counter has a Rubidium 
oscillator in it but I use the output from the thunderbolt at times as 
well.  My master plan is to build a box for the rack with a low phase 
noise multi channel distribution amplifier to feed to my other equipment 
with the 10MHz signal.


How my racks are setup the LCD should give me all the info I need in 
most cases.  Sometimes the lady heather software is just too much info.  
I do like the satellite tracking though.  That is a cool feature.


Thanks,

Major
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Chris Albertson]

I was looking into porting much of LH into an Arduino or TI Launch Pad
(msp430) And then a display would be web based.  But then I decided to
go back to grad school and there went any free time.

But I think that is that way to go.  The TB is best kept in some
light-out closet and who wants to stand of a step stool to read an LCD
when a web interface could put a better display on your smart phone or
computer

I did just buy a TI Launchpad.  For $4.30 shipping included I could
not resist but I have in mind a MUCH smaller project

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Major L. McGee III  wrote:
> I have been following this on the list for a while now and was curious if
> anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one made by
> Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track for wanting
> to make one of my own.
>
> I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have issues with a
> usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go haywire and
> cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.  Once I disconnect the
> converter (I have tried other makes as well) it works fine.  Usually I can
> reconnect the converter and things will work again.
>
> What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to display various
> info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can see that
> being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the thunderbolt used a
> ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit floating point math".
>
> So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to quit and have
> any information to share?
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[John Lofgren]

I can't help you with the outboard monitor, but I can help with the haywire / 
mouse situation.

Windows thinks that the serial port has a mouse connected because of the 1 / 
second transmissions from the T-Bolt.  At boot time Win looks for serial mice 
and it gets fooled by seeing something active on that COM port.  There was an 
answer about this issue from Nov. 1, 2010.

==
> NOTE:  If you boot Windows with your ThunderBolt connected to the Com 
> port, Windows will think it is a serial mouse and grab the port.  It 
> can lead to some interesting Windows behavior as the T-Bolt outputs 
> data.
>
>
> Mike - AA8K

Easy fix. Add the following to your "Boot.ini" file. Obviously, the "x" stands 
for the COM port you are using.

NoSerialMice:COMx

Joe Gray
W5JG
==

This didn't always work for me.  Another way to get it to stop using the mouse 
is to boot, let it find the "mouse", and then disable it in the Device Manager. 
 After opening Device Manager you'll find a mouse that doesn't belong there 
connected to whatever COM port your serial adapter was assigned.  If you move 
the adapter to a different USB port you'll need to do the process again.

-John



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of Major L. McGee III
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:32 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

I have been following this on the list for a while now and was curious 
if anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one 
made by Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track 
for wanting to make one of my own.

I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have issues 
with a usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go 
haywire and cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.  Once I 
disconnect the converter (I have tried other makes as well) it works 
fine.  Usually I can reconnect the converter and things will work again.

What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to display 
various info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can 
see that being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the 
thunderbolt used a ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit 
floating point math".

So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to quit and 
have any information to share?


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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Major L. McGee III]

I have been following this on the list for a while now and was curious 
if anyone is actively working on a open source monitor.  I see the one 
made by Adam VK4GHZ is no longer being sold.  This got me back on track 
for wanting to make one of my own.


I have been using either tbmon or lady heather but always have issues 
with a usb to serial converter when I start the computer.  It will go 
haywire and cause it to freeze and make the mouse malfunction.  Once I 
disconnect the converter (I have tried other makes as well) it works 
fine.  Usually I can reconnect the converter and things will work again.


What I would like to do is make a 2 or 4 line lcd readout to display 
various info.  I really liked VK4GHZ's page type selector knob.  I can 
see that being very useful.  On a youtube video by n6vmo said the 
thunderbolt used a ASCII Hex and "needs to be converted by using 64 bit 
floating point math".


So are any of you currently working on this or have decided to quit and 
have any information to share?



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Re: [time-nuts] [Thunderbolt Monitor

[MSproul]

About a year ago I built a Thunderbolt monitor using the Digilent Inc.  
chipKIT Uno32 and a
4 x 20 display from Modern Device. The Digilent chipKIT is a 32-bit- 
microcontroller
that is compatible with many Arduino code examples, and reference  
materials and is pin
compatible  with many Arduino shields. The programming IDE is free and  
available at


https://github.com/chipKIT32/chipKIT32-MAX/downloads.

The IDE supports the Arduino and Digilent boards plus about 30 other  
boards.
There are versions of the IDE for Linux, Windows, and Mac (I use the  
Mac version).


If anyone is interested in any details contact me off-line
Maury

Note: I am not associated with Digilent nor am I selling hardware or  
software


M. L. Sproul, W5UGQ
Amarillo, TX
mspr...@suddenlink.net




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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Didier]

Fellow time-nuts,

I am glad to announce a new version of the Thunderbolt Monitor software has
been released (v0.2.1).

http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:gps_monitor

Dan Karg contributed bug fixes and a new display routine, and I believe I
have fixed a random corruption issue with the VFD.

Now, all I need to do is finish the PWB...

Didier KO4BB


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?

[Don Key]

The monitor program is described in the ThunderBoltBook 2003 on the Trimble
website:-

http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10001/ThunderBoltBook2003.pdf


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
> Sent: 05 November 2008 23:08
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?
>
> Hi:
>
> Is there a manual for the Monitor program?
> For example is there a way to change the "Stored Position" from a yellow 
> to
> green dot?
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.prc68.com
>
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>
>
> 


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?

[Don Key]

Mine stays yellow, even after completion of self survey.
As mentioned earlier, you need to store it manually.

- Original Message - 
From: "David C. Partridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement'" 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?


> It will change when self-survey is complete
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
> Sent: 05 November 2008 23:08
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?
>
> Hi:
>
> Is there a manual for the Monitor program?
> For example is there a way to change the "Stored Position" from a yellow 
> to
> green dot?
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.prc68.com
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> 


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?

[David C. Partridge]

It will change when self-survey is complete 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
Sent: 05 November 2008 23:08
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?

Hi:

Is there a manual for the Monitor program?
For example is there a way to change the "Stored Position" from a yellow to
green dot?

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?

[Didier]

Brooke,

That is covered in my wiki:

http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:store_position_on
_trimble_thunderbolt

Courtesy of John Miles :-)

Didier KO4BB 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:08 PM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?
> 
> Hi:
> 
> Is there a manual for the Monitor program?
> For example is there a way to change the "Stored Position" 
> from a yellow to green dot?
> 
> --
> Have Fun,
> 
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.prc68.com
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, 
> go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> 


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?

[Chris Kuethe]

I haven't see a nice user's guide for tboltmon. Lots of exciting
opportunities for discovery and enlightenment :)

Setup menu > Position, fill in your known location and hit "save
segment". that should change that dot.

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Brooke Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> Is there a manual for the Monitor program?
> For example is there a way to change the "Stored Position" from a yellow to
> green dot?
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.prc68.com
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>



-- 
GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too?

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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor Manual?

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

Is there a manual for the Monitor program?
For example is there a way to change the "Stored Position" from a yellow to 
green dot?

-- 
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com

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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Mark Amos]

Bill,

I'm one of those casual users - though I'm getting close to graduating to Rb 
(time-nuttiness is habit 
forming...)

I've built a couple of the Shera GPSDOs and have added on some handy little 
features (I drive a 2 line LCD 
display, and format the output into a UTC/Local clock and buffered 10MHZ output 
to use as an external clock for 
an HP 5328 and my FlexRadio master oscillator.)  I recently got a surplus 
Thunderbolt and use a TAPR 
distribution amp to buffer the 10Mhz signal and it seems to drive all this 
stuff quite well too.  It's nice to 
have a couple of these, as you say, and it's fun to watch two of them driving 
an X-Y scope (if you enjoy things 
like watching paint dry, sundial's ticking off the hours, grass growing, etc.) 

I found the project to be fun and educational.  I did all the software 
development in PIC assembler and made a 
couple of changes to Shera's code.  (There seems to be fewer of the "my micro 
is better than yours" religious 
wars on this list than some others.)  FYI, Brooks Shera is also a very helpful 
fellow and seemed pleasant in 
the email exchanges we had.  

I drive a couple of cheap, but good-looking clocks who's motors I hacked to use 
the output from a 1PPS output 
(buffered and divided into +/- signals to replace the clock circuitry).  It's 
fun to invite people to listen to 
the clocks ticking in synchrony - all run from different types of precision 
clocks (GPSDO, WWV, etc.) 

This list seems to have more high-end folks on it and that might be why your 
suggestion didn't get a more 
positive response.  Also, every time someone mentions Shera, there seem to be 
plenty of "there are lots better 
ways to do it" folks offering tons of interesting ideas.  As far as I know, 
none of these have ever been turned 
into into a great PCB project (as with the Shera design.)  If you're game, and 
can actually integrate some of 
the "I know a much better way" suggestions, you should have a fun and 
ultimately very useful project!

In any case, good luck on your design.  I'm sure you'll continue to get some 
great advice from this group.

Mark
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does 
truth become error because nobody 
sees it." -- Mohandas Gandhi



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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (Didier Juges)

[Didier Juges]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:48 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (Didier Juges)
> 
> >  7.  Provide the ability to read several temperature devices.
> >  Something as simple as the DALLAS One-wire devices as 
> >  probes would work.
>
> The capability of using higher accuracy, higher resolution 
> temperature sensors such as RTDs and thermistors may also be useful.

Regarding temperature sensing,

Using easily obtained NTC thermistors and the built-in 12 bit ADC of a
Silabs processor, I was able to obtain stable temperature readings with
about 0.02 degree C resolution at 25 degree without any digital filtering or
analog processing (other than decoupling capacitors), by directly feeding
the voltage from a voltage divider composed of the thermistor and a
precision 10k resistor to the ADC, and using the processor's built-in
voltage reference to drive the divider. A small amount of dithering (or
simply by averaging several samples and using noise as the dither) will
easily give 0.01 degree C resolution if you like to see all the digit values
used. I did not bother to calculate the actual precision, but a rough check
shows the main absolute error to be the thermistor itself, all other errors
can be made negligible compared to it by using a precision resistor and
clean layout. The basic unadjusted accuracy is a fraction of a degree,
sufficient for most applications.

This with a thermistor that costs about $1.00 at Digikey and is as big as a
1/8 Watt resistor...

The software does the voltage/temperature conversion using math functions
(log particularly), so make sure your compiler supports it. Alternately, you
could use lookup tables, but that becomes impractical for anything greater
than 8 bits of resolution.

Due to the non-linearity of the circuit and that of the NTC thermistor
itself, resolution of that particular circuit degrades away from 25 degree C
to about 0.08 degree C at -35 and at +85 degree C. Different choices of
thermistor/resistor values can optimize the resolution at the temperature of
interest, but make sure you take the dissipation in the thermistor itself
into consideration, as it will create a non-linear offset. Any type of
analog linearization (in front of the ADC) over a broader range of
temperatures will cost a lot of money because you will need an exponentially
greater number of precision components. If greater resolution is needed, a
16 bit ADC would be the best solution in terms of cost and hassle.

Didier KO4BB


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (Didier Juges)

[Bruce Griffiths]

Bill

WB6BNQ wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Well I think you missed my point !  As I mentioned there are a few who have 
> the
> ability to deal with the H and Cs devices.
>
> However, I was really targeting the low end of the spectrum.  I referred to 
> them
> as the "normal guy" but perhaps I should have said the "casual guy" meaning 
> those
> who have a passing interest but are not going to run out and buy a Cs or even 
> a
> Rb but would be happy with a GPS disciplined crystal with 3 to 4 times the
> accuracy they really need.  This person may have a less than stellar counter 
> or
> two laying around who would want to calibrate them against his GPSDO every now
> and then.  Or may want to monitor and calibrate their HF rig for a ARRL 
> frequency
> contest or some such.  Even those with a Rb may not need more then what i
> suggested.
>
> I think the Shera controller with some upgrades is probably more then good 
> enough
> for the targeted level to discipline a crystal house standard or two.  Not 
> that I
> am saying something else could not be used.  Particularly for the third 
> channel
> which would be intended for non disciplined purposes.  I should have made
> reference to the TRACOR 895 for that third position.
>   
A single flipflop plus a micro or 2 (1 if one uses an actual physical 
DAC instead of a software implementation of a high resolution sigma 
delta DAC) is all you really need to achieve close to the best 
performance possible from whatever timing receiver and OCXO that are 
selected. The flipflop resolution automatically adjusts to suit the 
system noise level.

A 74AC74 plus a 74C86 or equivalent in a DIP package together with an 
opamp or 2 plus a high resolution ADC can be used to make a high 
resolution phase comparator if one must use DIP packages. However an 
AD9901 (20 pin PLCC) in a through hole socket is perhaps more convenient 
given that it has all the required logic and signal conditioning to 
implement a phase comparator all it lacks is an opamp or 2 plus a high 
resolution ADC.

Analog Devices do have some high resolution (24 bit) sigma delta ADCs 
available in DIP packages.
> I was also thinking at the kit level.  If things were done at the "thru-hole"
> level maybe more people would be interested in building such a kit.  Usually 
> the
> people left these days that tinker around (i.e., quasi hobbyist) are older 
> with
> failing eye sight, a little more jitter in their step (if you know what I 
> mean)
> and not interested in fooling around with those damn surface mount items 
> {such as
> myself}.  Sticking to "thru-hole" means those putting the kit together do not
> have to figure out how to handle the surface mount stuff for those who do not 
> or
> cannot deal with it.
>
>   
The Digilent CPLD's on DIP compatible daughter cards make it practical 
to implement circuits of intermediate complexity whilst remaining 
through hole component compatible.
Simple stuff like programmable dividers that don't require a large 
number of ZdIP packages, synhronisers and time stamp counters spring to 
mind.
> The largest problem is just coming up with a chart recorder.  I have a couple 
> of
> them and cannot find paper for them.  Standard office calculator/cash register
> paper is expensive enough, chart paper with holes on the side and a specific 
> grid
> pattern is even worse.
>
>   
We have the opposite problem more chart paper and associated recorders 
than we currently have applications for.
> So, the way I see it, there are a number of people (Timenuts and Amateur radio
> operators via TAPR) who would probably be interested if it is not too 
> involved.
> To handle those who are in the upper category, perhaps a second project aimed
> solely at them would also be appropriate.
>
>   
Yes I agree that a higher end system would be useful.
A modular approach would allow great flexibility.
The core component perhaps being a set (of 4?) high resolution ADCs like 
the AD7760.
This could be used for phase noise measurement  or for  measuring ADEV 
etc in a dual mixer setup.
> I am not dismissing your commentary, just noticing that it got way too 
> involved
> too quickly.  Some of the stuff you were suggesting would involved some really
> serious work with programming not only the CPLDs or FPGAs (for which I have no
> knowledge) but much more effort dealing with the ADCs and such.  Well seems 
> that
> way to me anyhow.
>
>   
I was attempting to provoke someone into producing some specifications 
for time stamp resolution etc.
100ns time stamp resolution is easily done using a counter a 
synchroniser and a time stamp register - easily fitted within a DIP 
compatible CPLD difficult (but not quite impossible if an appropriate 
micro is selected - eg some PICs can sample an internal counter on an 
external signal transition) with DIP packages or most micros.
With a higher frequency clock resolution to 10ns or so is also possible.
If single shot sub nanosecond resolution is required other tec

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (Didier Juges)

[WB6BNQ]

Bruce Griffiths wrote:

> Bill
>
> If one is going to do all this in one instrument then care should be
> taken to avoid inadvertent coupling via low frequency ground loops.
> RF transformers on all RF inputs can be very effective in minimising
> such problems.
> Isolating the instrument from the PC by using either LAN or isolated
> serial link(RS232/RS485 etc) for communications would also be useful.
> USB is less useful in that it can be somewhat more expensive to isolate
> satisfactorily.
>
> If one requires even higher resolution when comparing standards then a
> dual (or N channel) mixer system is easily constructed using carefully
> designed modular parts.
> Isolation amplifiers, mixer preamps, zero crossing detectors etc are
> required. However the zero crossing detectors can be replaced by a high
> resolution sound card.
> For low frequency (< 100kHz) beat signals a capacitive mixer IF port
> termination is best.
> With some substitutions the same modules can be rearranged to create a
> phase noise measurement system.
>
> Bruce
>
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Hi Bruce,

Well I think you missed my point !  As I mentioned there are a few who have the
ability to deal with the H and Cs devices.

However, I was really targeting the low end of the spectrum.  I referred to them
as the "normal guy" but perhaps I should have said the "casual guy" meaning 
those
who have a passing interest but are not going to run out and buy a Cs or even a
Rb but would be happy with a GPS disciplined crystal with 3 to 4 times the
accuracy they really need.  This person may have a less than stellar counter or
two laying around who would want to calibrate them against his GPSDO every now
and then.  Or may want to monitor and calibrate their HF rig for a ARRL 
frequency
contest or some such.  Even those with a Rb may not need more then what i
suggested.

I think the Shera controller with some upgrades is probably more then good 
enough
for the targeted level to discipline a crystal house standard or two.  Not that 
I
am saying something else could not be used.  Particularly for the third channel
which would be intended for non disciplined purposes.  I should have made
reference to the TRACOR 895 for that third position.

I was also thinking at the kit level.  If things were done at the "thru-hole"
level maybe more people would be interested in building such a kit.  Usually the
people left these days that tinker around (i.e., quasi hobbyist) are older with
failing eye sight, a little more jitter in their step (if you know what I mean)
and not interested in fooling around with those damn surface mount items {such 
as
myself}.  Sticking to "thru-hole" means those putting the kit together do not
have to figure out how to handle the surface mount stuff for those who do not or
cannot deal with it.

The largest problem is just coming up with a chart recorder.  I have a couple of
them and cannot find paper for them.  Standard office calculator/cash register
paper is expensive enough, chart paper with holes on the side and a specific 
grid
pattern is even worse.

So, the way I see it, there are a number of people (Timenuts and Amateur radio
operators via TAPR) who would probably be interested if it is not too involved.
To handle those who are in the upper category, perhaps a second project aimed
solely at them would also be appropriate.

I am not dismissing your commentary, just noticing that it got way too involved
too quickly.  Some of the stuff you were suggesting would involved some really
serious work with programming not only the CPLDs or FPGAs (for which I have no
knowledge) but much more effort dealing with the ADCs and such.  Well seems that
way to me anyhow.

Mainly I was really trying to get people to see that it should be a group
effort.  Otherwise you have 3 or 4 people duplicating the wheel so to speak.  If
those 3 or 4 could channel their efforts into one project perhaps we would end 
up
with the best out of all 3 or 4.

regards,

BillWB6BNQ



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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (Didier Juges)

[Bruce Griffiths]

WB6BNQ wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>Personally I question the value of such an item.  As hobbyist we all
>start immediately planning such a project just because that is our
>nature.  The Tbolt monitor program provided by Trimble, while lacking
>in some regards, is adequate for determining the functional condition.
>If it is working then most people are going to ignore it as its job is
>just to sit there and do its job.  Very mundane stuff in the aggregate.
>
>Probably the biggest thing missing in the Trimble software is a
>pictorial view of satellite placement.  Unless an expensive graphics
>LCD where planned, it would be out of the range of a simple PIC type
>project.  As most all who use a Tbolt would have a PC laying around, it
>reduces the need for such a project.
>
>That said, were such directions taken seriously, I think it should be a
>group effort.  This way those who seriously want to produce such a
>project can collectively arrive at a single meaningful product.  This
>project would be a good one to funnel through TAPR in a kit form.
>While not a member of TAPR, I can see their usefulness as a focal point
>for furthering interest in such projects and it provides a larger
>audience besides us Timenuts.
>
>It seems that projects like the TAC2 and such have died out at TAPR
>though the GPS/time arena still is a high interest.  Probably because
>the TAC2 idea was made into a commercial product.  Also because of
>Motorola dropping their efforts at making GPS receivers at a time when
>it was unclear if anything was going to be available to replace them.
>
>Perhaps, from a view of the bigger picture, we can generate a renewed
>interest to satisfy several needs at once.  Currently, only three
>useful items I can think of provide an interface between the GPS signal
>and one's local house standard.  The REFLOCK, Brooks Shera and a third
>party's lesser idea of something similar to the Shera controller.  Of
>the three, I think the REFLOCK was designed for a different purpose in
>mind.  Of the remaining two, The Shera controller is the more serious
>and complete design, particularly considering its design concepts went
>into a commercial product.
>
>The point of all this is a new person getting into the GPS locked house
>standard game is faced with several issues.  Sure they buy a Tbolt (or
>something similar), but then they have to figure out how to use it.
>While the Tbolt provides a direct 10MHz output, there are a host of
>reasons why you would want to buffer its existence.
>
>Having a house standard sure looks pretty sitting there until you
>realize the damn thing is not doing anything other then sucking power.
>Except for an extremely small number of people (count like 3 or 4 {no
>disrespect intended}) who have the means to stock a major museum or
>have a fetish for mechanical clocks, the normal person is going to want
>their house standard to do something useful for them.  So, we have the
>problem of either distribution or comparison.
>
>To distribute clean signals in different directions is not so easy,
>although, currently, a product is available at TAPR for this function.
>Distributing a signal has its limits and does not satisfy every
>situation.
>
>That leaves us with the need to compare lesser devices with the house
>standard.  This is where the system breaks down.  The one thing that is
>most plentiful is the oscilloscope, however, having your eyes glued to
>scope for any length of time is quite tedious.  Such items as the
>TRACOR 527 Frequency Difference Meter are available, but they are no
>different then using the oscilloscope in that the measurement is
>instantaneous, thus providing no history.  Besides things like the 527
>are expensive and not plentiful.  A phase discriminator along with a
>chart machine could be used for long term monitoring.  However, the
>need for lots of hard to find (sometimes) chart paper is a serious
>distraction.
>
>To wrap it up, here is what I see as a useful project:
>
>  1.  It should contain at least two independent Shera type controller
>  circuits for locking two separate independent house standards
>  against the GPS signal.
>
>   
Can do much better than the Shera controller with even less parts.
>  2.  Additionally, it should contain at least a single independent
>  DVM display to select and watch the two [item 1] DAC values plus the
>  ability to feed information of those separate actions to a PC.
>
>   
If one sprinkles inexpensive high resolution sigma delta ADCs  as and 
where required then the difficulties associated with an analog 
multiplexer can be avoided.
The display CPU only need gather data from the ADC's measuring the 
voltage of interest.
>  3.  It should contain a third Shera type 

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor CLARIFICATION

[WB6BNQ]

To clarify item 3

Item 3 came across unclear after reading it again.  What was meant was a third
channel to compare either of the two mentioned House Standards to a third device
without interrupting the two primary control channels referred to in item 1.

BillWB6BNQ



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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (Didier Juges)

[WB6BNQ]

   Hi Dave,

   Personally I question the value of such an item.  As hobbyist we all
   start immediately planning such a project just because that is our
   nature.  The Tbolt monitor program provided by Trimble, while lacking
   in some regards, is adequate for determining the functional condition.
   If it is working then most people are going to ignore it as its job is
   just to sit there and do its job.  Very mundane stuff in the aggregate.

   Probably the biggest thing missing in the Trimble software is a
   pictorial view of satellite placement.  Unless an expensive graphics
   LCD where planned, it would be out of the range of a simple PIC type
   project.  As most all who use a Tbolt would have a PC laying around, it
   reduces the need for such a project.

   That said, were such directions taken seriously, I think it should be a
   group effort.  This way those who seriously want to produce such a
   project can collectively arrive at a single meaningful product.  This
   project would be a good one to funnel through TAPR in a kit form.
   While not a member of TAPR, I can see their usefulness as a focal point
   for furthering interest in such projects and it provides a larger
   audience besides us Timenuts.

   It seems that projects like the TAC2 and such have died out at TAPR
   though the GPS/time arena still is a high interest.  Probably because
   the TAC2 idea was made into a commercial product.  Also because of
   Motorola dropping their efforts at making GPS receivers at a time when
   it was unclear if anything was going to be available to replace them.

   Perhaps, from a view of the bigger picture, we can generate a renewed
   interest to satisfy several needs at once.  Currently, only three
   useful items I can think of provide an interface between the GPS signal
   and one's local house standard.  The REFLOCK, Brooks Shera and a third
   party's lesser idea of something similar to the Shera controller.  Of
   the three, I think the REFLOCK was designed for a different purpose in
   mind.  Of the remaining two, The Shera controller is the more serious
   and complete design, particularly considering its design concepts went
   into a commercial product.

   The point of all this is a new person getting into the GPS locked house
   standard game is faced with several issues.  Sure they buy a Tbolt (or
   something similar), but then they have to figure out how to use it.
   While the Tbolt provides a direct 10MHz output, there are a host of
   reasons why you would want to buffer its existence.

   Having a house standard sure looks pretty sitting there until you
   realize the damn thing is not doing anything other then sucking power.
   Except for an extremely small number of people (count like 3 or 4 {no
   disrespect intended}) who have the means to stock a major museum or
   have a fetish for mechanical clocks, the normal person is going to want
   their house standard to do something useful for them.  So, we have the
   problem of either distribution or comparison.

   To distribute clean signals in different directions is not so easy,
   although, currently, a product is available at TAPR for this function.
   Distributing a signal has its limits and does not satisfy every
   situation.

   That leaves us with the need to compare lesser devices with the house
   standard.  This is where the system breaks down.  The one thing that is
   most plentiful is the oscilloscope, however, having your eyes glued to
   scope for any length of time is quite tedious.  Such items as the
   TRACOR 527 Frequency Difference Meter are available, but they are no
   different then using the oscilloscope in that the measurement is
   instantaneous, thus providing no history.  Besides things like the 527
   are expensive and not plentiful.  A phase discriminator along with a
   chart machine could be used for long term monitoring.  However, the
   need for lots of hard to find (sometimes) chart paper is a serious
   distraction.

   To wrap it up, here is what I see as a useful project:

 1.  It should contain at least two independent Shera type controller
 circuits for locking two separate independent house standards
 against the GPS signal.

 2.  Additionally, it should contain at least a single independent
 DVM display to select and watch the two [item 1] DAC values plus the
 ability to feed information of those separate actions to a PC.

 3.  It should contain a third Shera type circuit to use as a
 comparison channel between either of the two mentioned house
 standards so that other lesser, uncontrolled devices can be
 calibrated.

 4.  In Lieu of item 3 a similar arrangement to the TRACOR 527 as the
 third comparison channel.

 5.  In reference to items 3 and 4, the onboard controller should
 provide some readout for the calibration function.  Preferably,
 include an analog meter and the means for the onboard controller to
 

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (Didier Juges)

[David Medin]

   When I get my Tbolt, I was planning to program a PIC18F6722-based board
   I have already designed and produced, into the role of passthru/monitor
   to indicate lock. What other features would everyone want to see on a
   Tbolt monitor board relative to features/displays? What kit price range
   would you consider workable? I already have some similar RS-232
   supervisory stuff programmed in Assembler for the board similar to what
   a Tbolt supervisor would probably have. The board supports discrete
   LEDs as well as the usual parallel LCD character display--currently a
   20X4 matrix available from numerous sources like Crystalfontz and
   others. The board is based on +5 volts.

   If there was enough interest in a board, I probably would port the code
   to a smaller 18FxxKxx-series processor, as the price of the 6722 has
   gone through the roof and about 90 percent of the code space is unused.
   The K-series in SOIC-28  is also much easier to hand solder! I'd just
   have to work out a negative LCD bias supply as the K runs on 3.6 volts
   maximum.

   I wouldn't mind releasing the source code I've written too, if that
   made things more customizable. The Assembler is free from Microchip.

   I'm a bit busy at the moment, but could tend to customizations in
   November/December (depends somewhat on when my Tbolt arrives!). Scale
   of production greatly affects the cost, tho.

   -Dave Medin
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Didier Juges]

Some time ago John Ackerman had offered to have someone within TAPR develop
a PWB for this, but several emails to him about that went unanswered, so I
assume the answer is no. 

Since I have another project under way at the moment that will require a
very similar PWB, I intend to have that PWB done in such a way that both
projects (and probably others) can be supported, at which time Gerber files
(as a minimum) or pre-built PWBs will be available, in the Thanksgiving time
frame or sooner. I am not sure I am into selling kits, but if there are
enough people interested, it may be worthwhile.

Otherwise, it takes about one hour to assemble the few parts on a Radio
Shack proto board (see prototype #2 on that page:
http://www.ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor/), so if you are in a hurry, or on a
tight budget, that's the way to go.

Didier KO4BB

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Grossbauer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 5:26 PM
To: 'jshank'; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement';
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

I second this question.  This looks like a very cool project.  Didier, if
you would like some help/support or just some heaving lifting I would be
happy to volunteer.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jshank
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 09:19
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

Didier,

Any chance of the GPS Monitor which you are developing being available as a
kit?

Jeff
- Original Message -
From: "Didier Juges" < >
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:55 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor


>I have uploaded version 0.0.8.
>
> Alarms (if any) are decoded and displayed in succession on the second line
> of the display, alternated with the Disciplining Status.
> The archive has been fixed, there was a problem with v004. If you 
> downloaded
> it and had problems, I am sorry...
>
> Check the Wiki for details:
> http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:gps_monitor
>
> Didier KO4BB
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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
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6:56 AM



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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Joseph Grossbauer]

I second this question.  This looks like a very cool project.  Didier, if
you would like some help/support or just some heaving lifting I would be
happy to volunteer.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jshank
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 09:19
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

Didier,

Any chance of the GPS Monitor which you are developing being available as a 
kit?

Jeff
- Original Message - 
From: "Didier Juges" < >
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:55 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor


>I have uploaded version 0.0.8.
>
> Alarms (if any) are decoded and displayed in succession on the second line
> of the display, alternated with the Disciplining Status.
> The archive has been fixed, there was a problem with v004. If you 
> downloaded
> it and had problems, I am sorry...
>
> Check the Wiki for details:
> http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:gps_monitor
>
> Didier KO4BB
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[jshank]

Didier,

Any chance of the GPS Monitor which you are developing being available as a 
kit?

Jeff
- Original Message - 
From: "Didier Juges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:55 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor


>I have uploaded version 0.0.8.
>
> Alarms (if any) are decoded and displayed in succession on the second line
> of the display, alternated with the Disciplining Status.
> The archive has been fixed, there was a problem with v004. If you 
> downloaded
> it and had problems, I am sorry...
>
> Check the Wiki for details:
> http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:gps_monitor
>
> Didier KO4BB
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Neville Michie]

 From my thermionic valve days,
the emmissivity of a filament was greatly extended by under-running  
them.
If the display is pemanently run at a lower current in dim mode,
how long could the life be extended by dropping the filament voltage  
by a small margin?
cheers, Neville Michie




On 18/07/2008, at 8:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I too have never seen one go dim.  In fact, I have a VCR (Beta!)  
> that's been pluged in continously since I got it new in the early  
> '80s.  It still looks the same as when I got it except that the  
> display has had a left to right wave going through it since about  
> 1995.  So, wavy- but not dim at all.
>
> -Dave
>
>
> -- Original message --
> From: Jeffrey Pawlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>> Regarding the VFD display, although they may be very different one  
>> manufacturer
>> to another, I can definitely dispute a prior statement made that  
>> VFDs in general
>> have a short lifetime and become dim. They are universally used in  
>> VCRs, DVD
>> players, microwave ovens, and some clocks. I have never had one  
>> become dim or
>> burn out. The displays in my appliances are on even when the rest  
>> of the
>> appliance is off. I have never seen one become dim even after 15  
>> years of
>> on-time.
>>
>> I look forward to your project.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[d . seiter]

I too have never seen one go dim.  In fact, I have a VCR (Beta!) that's been 
pluged in continously since I got it new in the early '80s.  It still looks the 
same as when I got it except that the display has had a left to right wave 
going through it since about 1995.  So, wavy- but not dim at all.

-Dave


-- Original message -- 
From: Jeffrey Pawlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Regarding the VFD display, although they may be very different one 
> manufacturer 
> to another, I can definitely dispute a prior statement made that VFDs in 
> general 
> have a short lifetime and become dim. They are universally used in VCRs, DVD 
> players, microwave ovens, and some clocks. I have never had one become dim or 
> burn out. The displays in my appliances are on even when the rest of the 
> appliance is off. I have never seen one become dim even after 15 years of 
> on-time. 
> 
> I look forward to your project. 
> 
> 
> 73, 
> 
> Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___ 
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Mark Sims]

All VFD displays (and EL and CCFL LCD backlights) have finite lifetimes.  Very 
few will last over 40,000 hours (5 years).  Many start to noticeably degrade 
after one year.  Many EL backlights have lifetimes of less than 5000 hours 
(ever see a Tektronix 1502/1503B/C TDR with a good backlight?)

VFD displays have two main wearout mechanisms...  phosphor degradation and 
cathode (filament) degradation.  These displays are essentially the same as 
CRTs and old fashioned vacuum tubes.  They rely on a stream of electrons from a 
heated filament to hit a phosphor screen.  Over time the filament and the 
phosphor degrade.  

VFD displays (and EL backlights) typically have a rapid initial drop in 
brightness (25 percent over the first 100 hours is not uncommon) followed by a 
slow, fairly linear, drop  in brightness.  Most spec the lifetime of the device 
at 50% drop in brightness.

I repair quite a few old digital scales from Sartorius and Mettler that use VFD 
displays.  Many of these units are discarded because the displays have become 
so dim that they are unreadable (and the only source of replacements is another 
balance).  Most of these balances keep the electronics on continuously to keep 
the units thermally stabilized.  The power switch just turns the display on or 
off.  Unfortunately some of the balances just blank the display.  They leave 
the VFD filament energized and this wears out the display about as fast as 
keeping it lit.  



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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Didier Juges]

My preference is usually to have a voltage regulator on the board where the
"expensive" electronics is, simply because I use adjustable bench supplies
for testing and I also own and use a large number of 9 to 12V wall warts
such that I have blown great many parts by inadvertently putting 9 or 12V
into a 5V gizmo. Also, most of my processor boards take advantage of the
built-in A/D converter, and a local stable 5V source is a good design
practice that avoids a number of problems down the road. So it's been my
practice to put a 5V regulator, needed or not :-) Now, the Silabs chips run
off 3V nominal and have their own, relatively stable 2.5V reference, so that
problem also mostly goes away.

In this case, since the group buy Thunderbolt comes with a multi-output
supply which includes 5V, we could use that directly I guess. It just had
not occurred to me to do that... My original "red box" Thunderbolt runs off
28V, so that one will definitely need its own switching regulator.

Regarding the RS-232, the monitor only needs to convert the RS-232 to 0-3V
logic, so 12V is not needed there either.

In any event, a separate supply would be a waste and is not necessary.

Didier KO4BB

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas A. Frank
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:06 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor
> 
> On Jul 16, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Didier Juges wrote:
> 
> > One issue with the Noritake display (common to all VFD devices) is 
> > that it draws over 100mA of current at 5V. A 3 terminal linear 
> > regulator running from 12V will need a reasonable heat sink to 
> > operate. A better choice would be a small switching 
> regulator such as 
> > the LT1375 which I have used in a great many products. It's 
> a small 8 
> > pin device that requires only a handful of external components to 
> > convert 12V to 5 with excellent efficiency (no heat sink 
> required). I 
> > may lay out the PWB for both types of regulators, depending on the 
> > type of display you want to use.
> >
> > Didier KO4BB
> 
> Why would you run this external box off of 12 volts?  Do you 
> have portable use in mind?
> 
> I ask because to my way of thinking, I would provide the 
> display/ processor box with 5 volts straight out of a "wall 
> wart"; I've probably got a dozen in that voltage range lying 
> around (left over from ZIP drives).
> 
> The only use for 12 volts in the display box would be for the 
> RS232, and that can come from a MAX232 chip.
> 
> Seems like a simpler approach to me.  If I really wanted 
> portable, the 12-5v unit would be external.
> 
> Tom Frank KA2CDK
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Didier Juges]

Interesting, I can show you my two VCRs with dim displays (Panasonic and
JVC, both about 10 years old and on 24/7), and I have used a number of the
Noritake VFDs in an application where the devices have been on 24/7 since
2000. In that application, only 2, 3 or 4 digits are on all the time, the
other digits are only used for a special test mode and have probably less
than one hour total of operation in 8 years. The digits that are on all the
time have dimmed appreciably, but are still readable. The digits that are
not normally used are extremely dim when operated, where they are unreadable
in normal light.

I have not asked the manufacturer about that, since the units are well
beyong varranty, we just replace the displays.

Didier 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Pawlan
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:40 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor
> 
> Regarding the VFD display, although they may be very 
> different one manufacturer to another, I can definitely 
> dispute a prior statement made that VFDs in general have a 
> short lifetime and become dim.  They are universally used in 
> VCRs, DVD players, microwave ovens, and some clocks.  I have 
> never had one become dim or burn out. The displays in my 
> appliances are on even when the  rest of the appliance is 
> off. I have never seen one become dim even after 15 years of on-time.
> 
> I look forward to your project.
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> Jeffrey Pawlan,  WA6KBL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Thomas A. Frank]

On Jul 16, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Didier Juges wrote:

> One issue with the Noritake display (common to all VFD devices) is  
> that it
> draws over 100mA of current at 5V. A 3 terminal linear regulator  
> running
> from 12V will need a reasonable heat sink to operate. A better  
> choice would
> be a small switching regulator such as the LT1375 which I have used  
> in a
> great many products. It's a small 8 pin device that requires only a  
> handful
> of external components to convert 12V to 5 with excellent  
> efficiency (no
> heat sink required). I may lay out the PWB for both types of  
> regulators,
> depending on the type of display you want to use.
>
> Didier KO4BB

Why would you run this external box off of 12 volts?  Do you have  
portable use in mind?

I ask because to my way of thinking, I would provide the display/ 
processor box with 5 volts straight out of a "wall wart"; I've  
probably got a dozen in that voltage range lying around (left over  
from ZIP drives).

The only use for 12 volts in the display box would be for the RS232,  
and that can come from a MAX232 chip.

Seems like a simpler approach to me.  If I really wanted portable,  
the 12-5v unit would be external.

Tom Frank KA2CDK



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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[John Miles]

Yeah, those Noritake parts are very nice.  I wouldn't expect trouble from
one.

There is a slight possibility of additional EMI versus an LCD, obviously
nothing that would cause trouble at the end of an RS232 cable.

-- john, KE5FX

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jeffrey Pawlan
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:40 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor
>
>
> Regarding the VFD display, although they may be very different
> one manufacturer
> to another, I can definitely dispute a prior statement made that
> VFDs in general
> have a short lifetime and become dim.  They are universally used
> in VCRs, DVD
> players, microwave ovens, and some clocks.  I have never had one
> become dim or
> burn out. The displays in my appliances are on even when the  rest of the
> appliance is off. I have never seen one become dim even after 15 years of
> on-time.
>
> I look forward to your project.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Jeffrey Pawlan,  WA6KBL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Jeffrey Pawlan]

Regarding the VFD display, although they may be very different one manufacturer
to another, I can definitely dispute a prior statement made that VFDs in general
have a short lifetime and become dim.  They are universally used in VCRs, DVD
players, microwave ovens, and some clocks.  I have never had one become dim or
burn out. The displays in my appliances are on even when the  rest of the
appliance is off. I have never seen one become dim even after 15 years of
on-time.

I look forward to your project.


73,

Jeffrey Pawlan,  WA6KBL






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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Didier Juges]

One issue with the Noritake display (common to all VFD devices) is that it
draws over 100mA of current at 5V. A 3 terminal linear regulator running
from 12V will need a reasonable heat sink to operate. A better choice would
be a small switching regulator such as the LT1375 which I have used in a
great many products. It's a small 8 pin device that requires only a handful
of external components to convert 12V to 5 with excellent efficiency (no
heat sink required). I may lay out the PWB for both types of regulators,
depending on the type of display you want to use.

Didier KO4BB

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jshank
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:59 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor
> 
> The Noritake display looks great.
> I am hoping that a kit of this proposed Thunderbolt monitor 
> with the Noritake display will be made available through TARP 
> in the near future.  I am sure that many of the Thunderbolts 
> which recently became available would benefit from such a kit.
> Jeff
> - Original Message -
> From: "Didier Juges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Time-Nuts" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:47 AM
> Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor
> 
> 
> >I made a second version (same firmware) of the Thunderbolt monitor. 
> >This one  uses the plastic DIP version of the processor mounted on a 
> >small Radio  Shack  proto board and it uses a gorgeous 
> Noritake Vacuum 
> >Fluorescent display.
> >
> > The interface between the Noritake and any ordinary LCD 
> display is the 
> > same ( as far as pin-out is concerned), except that the 
> Noritake does 
> > not have a contrast adjustment. Otherwise, the firmware is 
> the same, 
> > once the differences are accounted for. The Noritake is 
> generally much 
> > faster than most 2 line LCDs when updating the data, but requires a 
> > little more time to initialize themselves at power up. My 
> software can 
> > drive either display without modification.
> >
> > The Noritake displays have a software command to adjust the 
> brightness 
> > down to half, and that's it. My firmware does not take advantage of 
> > that feature, which I find relatively useless, but may prolong the 
> > life of the display.
> > The VFDs only have a few years of life under continuous 
> operation, so 
> > dimming the display or turning it off altogether when not 
> needed might 
> > be a good idea.
> >
> > See pictures at http://www.ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor/
> >
> > Didier KO4BB
> >
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[jshank]

The Noritake display looks great.
I am hoping that a kit of this proposed Thunderbolt monitor with the 
Noritake display will be made available through TARP in the near future.  I 
am sure that many of the Thunderbolts which recently became available would 
benefit from such a kit.
Jeff
- Original Message - 
From: "Didier Juges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Time-Nuts" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:47 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor


>I made a second version (same firmware) of the Thunderbolt monitor. This 
>one
> uses the plastic DIP version of the processor mounted on a small Radio 
> Shack
> proto board and it uses a gorgeous Noritake Vacuum Fluorescent display.
>
> The interface between the Noritake and any ordinary LCD display is the 
> same
> ( as far as pin-out is concerned), except that the Noritake does not have 
> a
> contrast adjustment. Otherwise, the firmware is the same, once the
> differences are accounted for. The Noritake is generally much faster than
> most 2 line LCDs when updating the data, but requires a little more time 
> to
> initialize themselves at power up. My software can drive either display
> without modification.
>
> The Noritake displays have a software command to adjust the brightness 
> down
> to half, and that's it. My firmware does not take advantage of that 
> feature,
> which I find relatively useless, but may prolong the life of the display.
> The VFDs only have a few years of life under continuous operation, so
> dimming the display or turning it off altogether when not needed might be 
> a
> good idea.
>
> See pictures at http://www.ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor/
>
> Didier KO4BB
>
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[Didier Juges]

I made a second version (same firmware) of the Thunderbolt monitor. This one
uses the plastic DIP version of the processor mounted on a small Radio Shack
proto board and it uses a gorgeous Noritake Vacuum Fluorescent display. 
 
The interface between the Noritake and any ordinary LCD display is the same
( as far as pin-out is concerned), except that the Noritake does not have a
contrast adjustment. Otherwise, the firmware is the same, once the
differences are accounted for. The Noritake is generally much faster than
most 2 line LCDs when updating the data, but requires a little more time to
initialize themselves at power up. My software can drive either display
without modification.
 
The Noritake displays have a software command to adjust the brightness down
to half, and that's it. My firmware does not take advantage of that feature,
which I find relatively useless, but may prolong the life of the display.
The VFDs only have a few years of life under continuous operation, so
dimming the display or turning it off altogether when not needed might be a
good idea.
 
See pictures at http://www.ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor/
 
Didier KO4BB
 
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Didier Juges]

I have uploaded version 0.0.8.

Alarms (if any) are decoded and displayed in succession on the second line
of the display, alternated with the Disciplining Status.
The archive has been fixed, there was a problem with v004. If you downloaded
it and had problems, I am sorry...

Check the Wiki for details:
http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:gps_monitor

Didier KO4BB
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor

[Didier Juges]

Firmware version 0.0.4 is usable and has been uploaded, read the details and
download the firmware from my Wiki page:

http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:gps_monitor

Some user interface (to select which information to display) would be nice.
2 lines of 16 characters is definitely a limitation when dealing with so
much information. I am open to suggestions about what you guys think would
be the most useful information to display. A few LEDs would not be out of
the question. The processor has 17 available IO pins, the LCD uses 7 and the
serial port uses 2, so at the moment, there are 8 left.

I will probably make a NMEA version at some point, for non-Trimble GPS.

Didier KO4BB

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