Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Did you ever run any tests on those UCT double oven OCXOs? Only to the extent of running a short (10-minute) HDEV test after a ~2 hour warmup, to see if it was capable of anything interesting near t=10s to t=30s. It showed about 2E-12, and the PN was nothing special, so I didn't do anything else with it. I'll leave one running for a few days and try it. I've found them to be freaky-stable long term. I have retrofitted a lot of Tek DC510/5010 counters with them and after over two years, the last digit is still right on. They would probably be good for homebrew GPSDOs, given their small size. Perhaps a Thunderbolt refit. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
I've tried both the MV89a and the Oscilloquartz 8663 (I think UCT is the same or very close) with the Thunderbolt. The Oscilloquartz does not fit any of the OCXO thru-hole combinations but the MV89a does fit one of the OCXO variations that TB accommodates. That makes for a very clean/compact replacement for the standard TB oscillator. You have to be s careful when wiring an OCXO off-board for ground bounce and other minute disturbances to the EFC. The MV89a as a TB on-board replacement is the only way I could get superb PPT stability out to TC=1000 sec. Even without active disciplining, either oscillator has very good long-term stability. I have a related question, probably directed to Said, on the Fury OEM board. The MV89a seems to work ok at 10.5 V and draws ~970ma on warm-up, settling out at ~350ma at this lower supply voltage. Is that initial current draw excessive for the Fury OCXO supply? I would like to use the on-board supply so the current draw can provide the feedback for TEMPCO. I'm using NTC thermistors strapped to the OCXO case otherwise like I have done with an 10811. The current approach would seem much better correlated. Regards... Don - Original Message - From: John Miles To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level? Did you ever run any tests on those UCT double oven OCXOs? Only to the extent of running a short (10-minute) HDEV test after a ~2 hour warmup, to see if it was capable of anything interesting near t=10s to t=30s. It showed about 2E-12, and the PN was nothing special, so I didn't do anything else with it. I'll leave one running for a few days and try it. I've found them to be freaky-stable long term. I have retrofitted a lot of Tek DC510/5010 counters with them and after over two years, the last digit is still right on. They would probably be good for homebrew GPSDOs, given their small size. Perhaps a Thunderbolt refit. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Don't be afraid and open up your MV89. I have done this with many MV201 without problems. On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Sam li...@digitalelectric.com.au wrote: I just powered up one of my MV89A's and measured ~7 dBm into my HP 8920B, but as Tom has mentioned some MV89A's develop a dry joint around the output bypass capacitor http://www.hellocq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=283551 What is the date and revision number on yours? I have 2 here 07/34 and 07/31 both Rev 3 bought from fluke.l Sam Got my replacement FE-5680 and a MV89 in from Nichegeek. I figured I'd better power up and check the MV89 before I let 'em know everything was ok. The MV89 is warming up nicely, the current is down to 290 mA (and still dropping), but the output seems low; about 40 mV RMS as measured on a scope with a 10Meg 10x probe. (Datasheet spec is +7 +/- 2 dBm.) The output is too weak to reliably trigger my 5345A counter. The reference voltage measures 4.90 VDC. If anyone can make a quick measurement on their MV89, I'd appreciate it. thanks! newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Hi It's a solder seal can and if you have the right gear it comes open easy. If you happen to have a 1KW RF induction heater they are very easy to open. If by the odd chance you don't have one of those, a nice big soldering iron (or two) can come in handy. Solder wick and working your way around the seal twice seems to be the most direct approach. Vacuum desoldering also works, but I find the wick does a quicker job. Don't go to crazy, it does take time to heat the can (either way) and the can will get hot. A vice with non-melting plastic jaws is handy for holding it while you work. A piece of leather on the jaws can be a substitute. Don't clamp it directly in metal jaws or you will have a tough time getting the seal hot enough. All of that assumes you want to put it back together. If you don't then cutting it open is *much* faster :)…. Bob On Feb 9, 2012, at 6:04 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Don't be afraid and open up your MV89. I have done this with many MV201 without problems. On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Sam li...@digitalelectric.com.au wrote: I just powered up one of my MV89A's and measured ~7 dBm into my HP 8920B, but as Tom has mentioned some MV89A's develop a dry joint around the output bypass capacitor http://www.hellocq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=283551 What is the date and revision number on yours? I have 2 here 07/34 and 07/31 both Rev 3 bought from fluke.l Sam Got my replacement FE-5680 and a MV89 in from Nichegeek. I figured I'd better power up and check the MV89 before I let 'em know everything was ok. The MV89 is warming up nicely, the current is down to 290 mA (and still dropping), but the output seems low; about 40 mV RMS as measured on a scope with a 10Meg 10x probe. (Datasheet spec is +7 +/- 2 dBm.) The output is too weak to reliably trigger my 5345A counter. The reference voltage measures 4.90 VDC. If anyone can make a quick measurement on their MV89, I'd appreciate it. thanks! newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Would it be better to apply heat the metal shell or to apply heat the bottom part with the I/O pins ? I would start using a propane gas torch. Heating quickly till I saw the solder flow. Stan, W1LECape Cod On 2/9/2012 6:04 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Don't be afraid and open up your MV89. I have done this with many MV201 without problems. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
I use a hot gun directing heat on the soldered edge. Use a soldering iron and the solder wick as suggested gives the best result, in my opinion. It helps if more than 1 working around the OCXO as at some moment you have to use one or two pins to lift the bottom cover using pliers. I have done this job here at work and recovered the few MV201 that can't heat up (frequency too low at the output). Usually it was a resistor not soldered at one end. In one case there was the crystal inductor not soldered (missing 10MHz at the output) . Heating the bottom avoids the label meltdown too. On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Stan, W1LE stanw...@verizon.net wrote: Would it be better to apply heat the metal shell or to apply heat the bottom part with the I/O pins ? I would start using a propane gas torch. Heating quickly till I saw the solder flow. Stan, W1LECape Cod On 2/9/2012 6:04 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Don't be afraid and open up your MV89. I have done this with many MV201 without problems. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
If you do open it up Scott, Don't forget to take some photos of the guts of it. I wouldn't mind seeing inside one of these. Sam ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Sam li...@digitalelectric.com.au wrote: ...but as Tom has mentioned some MV89A's develop a dry joint around the output bypass capacitor Now that I think of it, it is surprising to me that OCXOs even work. About the worst thing you can do to kill the reliability of electronics is store and operate it inside a heated oven. Cracks in solder joints are the kind of thing you'd expect after many thermal cycles One question: I was thinking about buying one of these MV89As. Are they the best of the $25 OCXOs for short to medium term phase noise/stabilty. Trimble, Isotherm and others are all about the same price on eBay. How to decide which to get? Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Hi I would avoid super heat type approaches. The risk is getting the glass to metal seals on the base to hot to fast. Normally the can needs more heat than the base, but not always. A lot depends on just how thick each one is and what they are made of. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Stan, W1LE Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 7:47 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level? Would it be better to apply heat the metal shell or to apply heat the bottom part with the I/O pins ? I would start using a propane gas torch. Heating quickly till I saw the solder flow. Stan, W1LECape Cod On 2/9/2012 6:04 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Don't be afraid and open up your MV89. I have done this with many MV201 without problems. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Hi Are you worried about phase noise at 100 Hz and above (Trimble OCXO) or about sort term stability at 1 to 100 seconds (MV89)? Two different things, and you don't get both at the same time on the crop of what's up for auction at the moment. Of course you can get a broken one in either batch and there are a *lot* more MV89's out there to sort through. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:19 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level? On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Sam li...@digitalelectric.com.au wrote: ...but as Tom has mentioned some MV89A's develop a dry joint around the output bypass capacitor Now that I think of it, it is surprising to me that OCXOs even work. About the worst thing you can do to kill the reliability of electronics is store and operate it inside a heated oven. Cracks in solder joints are the kind of thing you'd expect after many thermal cycles One question: I was thinking about buying one of these MV89As. Are they the best of the $25 OCXOs for short to medium term phase noise/stabilty. Trimble, Isotherm and others are all about the same price on eBay. How to decide which to get? Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Are you worried about phase noise at 100 Hz and above (Trimble OCXO) or about sort term stability at 1 to 100 seconds (MV89)? Two different things, and you don't get both at the same time on the crop of what's up for auction at the moment. Of course I want all of the above. My long term goal is to measure radio signals that have bounced off the ionosphere. The idea is that you can learn something about the ionosphere.I think shorter term is better if I have to choose. Thanks. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
At 11:20 AM 2/9/2012, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I would avoid super heat type approaches. The risk is getting the glass to metal seals on the base to hot to fast. Normally the can needs more heat than the base, but not always. A lot depends on just how thick each one is and what they are made of. It's open! Solder sucker didn't help. Solder wick and a hot iron got most of the solder out, then I used the 140 W gun and a screwdriver to pop the edges loose. Not easy for me at all. Probing around, it looks like the signal is at the output cap, but not at the output pin. The joints look a bit funky, so maybe I can just retouch them and be done. We'll see. Thanks a lot for the advice, ideas, and measurements. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
Hi Nevell, FYI my one delivers almost +5dBm on 50 Ohm.Ref Voltage +4,86 Volt. Rgds Ernie. -Original Message- From: Scott Newell newell+timen...@n5tnl.com To: time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:16 am Subject: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level? Got my replacement FE-5680 and a MV89 in from Nichegeek. I figured 'd better power up and check the MV89 before I let 'em know verything was ok. The MV89 is warming up nicely, the current is own to 290 mA (and still dropping), but the output seems low; about 0 mV RMS as measured on a scope with a 10Meg 10x probe. (Datasheet pec is +7 +/- 2 dBm.) The output is too weak to reliably trigger my 345A counter. The reference voltage measures 4.90 VDC. If anyone can make a quick measurement on their MV89, I'd appreciate it. hanks! ewell N5TNL __ ime-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com o unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts nd follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Morion MV89 output level?
I just powered up one of my MV89A's and measured ~7 dBm into my HP 8920B, but as Tom has mentioned some MV89A's develop a dry joint around the output bypass capacitor http://www.hellocq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=283551 What is the date and revision number on yours? I have 2 here 07/34 and 07/31 both Rev 3 bought from fluke.l Sam Got my replacement FE-5680 and a MV89 in from Nichegeek. I figured I'd better power up and check the MV89 before I let 'em know everything was ok. The MV89 is warming up nicely, the current is down to 290 mA (and still dropping), but the output seems low; about 40 mV RMS as measured on a scope with a 10Meg 10x probe. (Datasheet spec is +7 +/- 2 dBm.) The output is too weak to reliably trigger my 5345A counter. The reference voltage measures 4.90 VDC. If anyone can make a quick measurement on their MV89, I'd appreciate it. thanks! newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
