RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
You are mixing several differrent things: - J2EE is a spec that consists of several technologies. Most of these technologies can stand for them selves and be used without the others. (Some of them are related or even dependend to some extend) - JBOSS is an implementation of that spec. It doesn't implement all technologies from scratch but integrates other projects to implement some of them. (Like tomcat to implement Servlets and JSP, or use JavaMail and JDBC from sun) - Sun has a reference implementation for J2EE This implementation is just intended as reference and to give developer something to work with, it is not intended as a production environment (I'm not shure if the license would even allow the use in a production environment) Depending on which technologies you need, JBoss may be overkill or not. Per definition it can't provide more than the reference implementation of sun without leaving the spec. (Each additional feature hasn't anything to do with J2EE) In detail it can make quite a difference in the ease of development (integration with non J2EE tools like ant, xdoclet,AOP) and ease of use/administration) -Original Message- From: Michael Coughlan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:30 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)? Thanks again for the reply, Tim. As you can tell, I am a little confused although it's becoming somewhat more clear. J2EE includes JMS, EJB, and a bunch of other acronyms. java.sun.com should have a whitepaper about j2ee and everything it can do. I think I can imagine that whitepaper. This might be the source of my confusion: I was under the impression that JMS, EJBs, etc. were supplied by the J2EE SDK. If so, what does JBoss give me on top of that SDK? Let's take JMS as an example: I remember compiling and running Java Messenger Service code examples as stand alone Java programs (without JBoss). I just assumed that I was able and expected to write servlets to make use of the robust JMS Development Kit. Was I wrong? If not, then what exactly would JBoss offer on top of the J2EE SDK and Tomcat? Does JBoss (WebShere, BEA Weblogic) offer some kind of JMS Servlet libraries on top of the already robust J2EE sdk? Do they simply give persistence? I can't seem to find a direct answer to that question. There is an apache project called Geronimo but it is in its infancy (i think). I can imagine that the existence of JBoss would steal some of Geronimo's thunder despite the cool project name. Thanks again and best regards, MPC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Thanks for the great reply. You are mixing several different things: I agree. Sorry to be so thick, everyone. I hope I am not too far off topic with this conversation thread, but I simply don't understand how JBoss differs from the J2EE SDK. - J2EE is a spec that consists of several technologies. Most of these technologies can stand for them selves and be used without the others. (Some of them are related or even dependend to some extend) Sure. It's a spec. That I understand. - JBOSS is an implementation of that spec. So they say. So, why heck would I want it if I have the J2EE SDK and other fun Sun dowloads? Doesn't Sun offer *thee original* implementation of that spec alerady? Does JBoss rely on the J2EE SDK? Does it try to replace it? Is it a bunch of Sun downloads repakcaged in one big .tar? Is JBoss really an App Server? Does it run it's own asynchronous threads outside of the standard Tomcat threads? It doesn't implement all technologies from scratch but integrates other projects to implement some of them. (Like tomcat to implement Servlets and JSP, or use JavaMail and JDBC from sun) It sounds to me like JBoss is simply repackaging Tomcat, Ant, and some other Jakarta stuff along with the Sun J2EE SDK and some common jar files like Javamail and JDBC. Is so, then it also sounds to me like all they're trying to do is save developers a few downloads so that they can sell some expensive centralized documentation. Not a bad idea, but it's not for me because I already have all of that installed. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Michael Coughlan wrote: I agree. Sorry to be so thick, everyone. I hope I am not too far off topic with this conversation thread, but I simply don't understand how JBoss differs from the J2EE SDK. There is a specification for J2EE, and then Sun makes an implementation of that specification, just as many other companies implement the spec. There are differences among the implementations, depending on what your needs are. JBoss for example also supports aspect oriented programming, if that will help your application out. Perhaps this will help you decide which application server to use. http://www.theserverside.com/reviews/matrix.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
JBoss and J2EE SDK rely on the same tools for some technologies. Others technologies are implemented from scratch. From the J2EE perspective JBoss and J2EE SDK are competitors that have different scopes. (J2EE SDK the is not intended as a tool for production) The heavy part (like EJB) is implemented by JBoss as an alternate implematation of the same technology. Tomcat is just a very small part of the game. JBoss is an appserver that uses tomcat as a plugin to implement servlets and jsp's. (It could and can use other tools like jetty to achieve the same goal) -Original Message- From: Michael Coughlan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)? So, why heck would I want it if I have the J2EE SDK and other fun Sun dowloads? Doesn't Sun offer *thee original* implementation of that spec alerady? Does JBoss rely on the J2EE SDK? Does it try to replace it? Is it a bunch of Sun downloads repakcaged in one big .tar? Is JBoss really an App Server? Does it run it's own asynchronous threads outside of the standard Tomcat threads? It doesn't implement all technologies from scratch but integrates other projects to implement some of them. (Like tomcat to implement Servlets and JSP, or use JavaMail and JDBC from sun) It sounds to me like JBoss is simply repackaging Tomcat, Ant, and some other Jakarta stuff along with the Sun J2EE SDK and some common jar files like Javamail and JDBC. Is so, then it also sounds to me like all they're trying to do is save developers a few downloads so that they can sell some expensive centralized documentation. Not a bad idea, but it's not for me because I already have all of that installed. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
(J2EE SDK the is not intended as a tool for production) Thanks for the post. Can you please clarify? Are you saying that the J2EE SDK is not production quality while JBoss is? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Perhaps this will help you decide which application server to use. http://www.theserverside.com/reviews/matrix.jsp This Matrix is excellent. Thanks, James. I noticed that J2EE x Tomcat was not checked off? For my project, I will need servlets with J2EE, JMS etc. Why can't I simply use Tomcat along with the J2EE SDK? It seems to me that I might want to blow away my Tomcat install and unpack JBoss (with Tomcat). MPC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Michael Coughlan wrote: It seems to me that I might want to blow away my Tomcat install and unpack JBoss (with Tomcat). You should look at what you will need, in terms of features, and what you can spend, and then decide. Sun's implementation also uses Tomcat as do at least some of the other implementations. There is no reason to develop a new application to compete with tomcat when it is so well done, so the differentiation is outside of tomcat. Jboss is a good choice, if it meets your requirements, but, all I have used is JBoss and Sun's implementation. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Michael Coughlan wrote: Thanks for the post. Can you please clarify? Are you saying that the J2EE SDK is not production quality while JBoss is? I believe the reference implementation is not meant for production, from Sun, but for $2k or $10k/cpu you can buy one that is. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Tomcat is a servlet (and jsp) container. Thats it, nothing else. Zippo. JBoss is a full J2EE server which offers all the J2EE services (and one of those things being tomcat) -Tim Michael Coughlan wrote: This might seem like an embarrassing question (or a poor post for the Tomcat-user list), but why would a developer want to download JBoss with Tomcat bundled instead of Tomcat alone? Does the Jakarta project have a competing open-source appsever product? I understand why someone would need an application server for Apache, but isn't Tomcat prepared to track sessions, manage DB connection objects with JDBC, etc? Does JBoss provide standard code for Shopping Carts? What does it offer that Tomcat does not? I'm sure there is a good reason for App Servers. If someone can clue me in as to the limits of Tomcat and the common uses of an App Server, I would appreciate it. The only decent Documentation for JBoss is for sale. Their site was not very informative. I don't know if I trust their POV anyway. In the mealtime, I've got the JBoss installer tar to try out and no manual. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Thanks for the reply. Tomcat is a servlet (and jsp) container. Thats it, nothing else. Zippo. Understood. Although Tomcat seems to be more robust than Apache in tracking sessions and saving state, which is what App Servers did in the past. JBoss is a full J2EE server which offers all the J2EE services To help drive the point home, can someone please give a few more examples of J2EE services? I swear, I've looked through all the Sun App server and Jboss literature and there is very little about what one might do with them. Finally, the Jakarta project seems so robust, why is there no Jakarta equivalent? Or is there? Thanks again. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Two words man: full J2EE ;-) Dnia 12/21/2003 09:32 PM, Uz.ytkownik Michael Coughlan napisa?: This might seem like an embarrassing question (or a poor post for the Tomcat-user list), but why would a developer want to download JBoss with Tomcat bundled instead of Tomcat alone? Does the Jakarta project have a competing open-source appsever product? I understand why someone would need an application server for Apache, but isn't Tomcat prepared to track sessions, manage DB connection objects with JDBC, etc? Does JBoss provide standard code for Shopping Carts? What does it offer that Tomcat does not? I'm sure there is a good reason for App Servers. If someone can clue me in as to the limits of Tomcat and the common uses of an App Server, I would appreciate it. The only decent Documentation for JBoss is for sale. Their site was not very informative. I don't know if I trust their POV anyway. In the mealtime, I've got the JBoss installer tar to try out and no manual. Thanks, MPC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
J2EE includes JMS, EJB, and a bunch of other acronyms. java.sun.com should have a whitepaper about j2ee and everything it can do. Most of the acronyms are enablers to solve some business problem. (Other acronyms sometime feel like they just allow consultants to make a lot of money ;) ) There is an apache project called Geronimo but it is in its infancy (i think). -Tim Michael Coughlan wrote: Thanks for the reply. Tomcat is a servlet (and jsp) container. Thats it, nothing else. Zippo. Understood. Although Tomcat seems to be more robust than Apache in tracking sessions and saving state, which is what App Servers did in the past. JBoss is a full J2EE server which offers all the J2EE services To help drive the point home, can someone please give a few more examples of J2EE services? I swear, I've looked through all the Sun App server and Jboss literature and there is very little about what one might do with them. Finally, the Jakarta project seems so robust, why is there no Jakarta equivalent? Or is there? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why JBoss (and Tomcat)?
Thanks again for the reply, Tim. As you can tell, I am a little confused although it's becoming somewhat more clear. J2EE includes JMS, EJB, and a bunch of other acronyms. java.sun.com should have a whitepaper about j2ee and everything it can do. I think I can imagine that whitepaper. This might be the source of my confusion: I was under the impression that JMS, EJBs, etc. were supplied by the J2EE SDK. If so, what does JBoss give me on top of that SDK? Let's take JMS as an example: I remember compiling and running Java Messenger Service code examples as stand alone Java programs (without JBoss). I just assumed that I was able and expected to write servlets to make use of the robust JMS Development Kit. Was I wrong? If not, then what exactly would JBoss offer on top of the J2EE SDK and Tomcat? Does JBoss (WebShere, BEA Weblogic) offer some kind of JMS Servlet libraries on top of the already robust J2EE sdk? Do they simply give persistence? I can't seem to find a direct answer to that question. There is an apache project called Geronimo but it is in its infancy (i think). I can imagine that the existence of JBoss would steal some of Geronimo's thunder despite the cool project name. Thanks again and best regards, MPC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
