Re: [Trisquel-users] how to choose server hardware?
I would not recommend a desktop computer - it would use up a huge amount of electricity. A netbook, or a minipc would be a better idea.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
The name issue is very simple - in 1983, a man called Richard Stallman decided to develop an operating system and to call it GNU. Then, a few years later, someone else developed a kernel. The two got put together, and for some reason everyone decided to call it Linux, instead of The GNU operating system
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
If Steam (or whatever the company behind it is called) violate the GPL, that would be great; someone can have lots of fun suing them, and try to get a huge amount of money out of them; which can be donated to the fsf.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnome shell privacy issue : Auto answering voice and video calls
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-16 12:18, dude...@gmx.com wrote: And yeah, if the Trisquel devs wanna shoot people in the foot with the bullshit that is Gnome Shell, that's their right of course. Let's all keep in mind the particular setup that leads to this is not the default in Trisquel nor is it the result of Trisquel devs decisions. F. - -- Fabián Rodríguez http://fsf.magicfab.ca -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKwKz4ACgkQfUcTXFrypNX1IgCeMt3k9+qxOiBAetSHxhVsdnap tzAAoLsKMxOGI8fbYAdDu020s16eRUSI =ro4F -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-16 18:59, x...@riseup.net wrote: After Valve annouced the release of SteamOS I have been pretty concerned about GNU/Linux becoming more reliant on proprietary software. [...] On Steam + Debian, this post recently was on Debian Planet: http://richardhartmann.de/blog/posts/2013/12/14-SteamOS/ Quoting: In time, a substantial part of that [gamers] userbase will switch over one or more of their machines over to SteamOS. The tinkerers among them will realize they can install plain Debian and install Steam as a package. The hackers among those will start to improve upon their systems; and what better way to do that then to go upstream? If even a tiny fraction of users makes it this far, the count of actively involved contributors with Debian will skyrocket if we let them join. Raspbian and some other not-quite-ideal decisions come to mind. Proof of this already happening: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/search?q=steamOSrestrict_sr=onsort=topt=month It's up to us to remind any new SteamOS+Debian user that it depends on software freedom, and that it should remain a goal. F. - -- Fabián Rodríguez http://fsf.magicfab.ca -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKwNCEACgkQfUcTXFrypNUyaACgjuCTN/zX7Lbr27CSWl0I/UXw 4t4Anit8dWiyYZ8HWACTujfP+paCCD62 =sO8C -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
I agree with axgb. Very simple, and yet so many people ignore it. Without the GNU project, the GNU+Linux operating systems wouldn't be as functional and famous as they are today. Just think about GNU Nano, GNU Readline, GNU Bash, GNU Coreutils (arch, base64, cat, chgrp, chmod, chown, chroot, cp, cut, date, dd, df, du, echo, false, head, id, ln, ls, md5sum, mkdir, mv, nice, nohup, paste, pwd, rm, rmdir, sha*sum, shred, sleep, sort, split, tac, tail, test , touch, tr, true, uname, wc, who, whoami, yes etc.). Best regards, ADFENO. Have a nice day.
[Trisquel-users] Can I use Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux ?
Hey guys ! Have you ever seen Brackets ? It's an open source code editor for web designers and front-end developers. This project was start by Adobe Systems. Wikipedia says that Brackets is under the MIT Licence. This licence is compatible with the GPL. The MIT Licence of Brackets can be read here. So Can I install Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux 6.0 LTS 32 bits ? When I download the brackets-sprint-34-LINUX32.deb file, I can see those folders : DEBIANoptusr I think I need to copy and paste all files in my own system but what is the DEBIAN folder ? In DEBIAN, I can see those files : controlpostinst (script shell)postrm (script shell)prerm (script shell) Thanks for your help.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
Right, so let me just check if I got your logic right. 1) OEMs should somehow be restricted in what they can and cannot bundle, I would assume by government. Government legislation and restrictions for everybody = freedom. Sure, that makes plenty sense, I'm sure nine out of ten tyrants would agree. So far as I'm concerned that'd just be one more nasty overreach, much like the GPLv3 is overreaching into things it should have no business with. 2) So what you have against them is that compared to the GPL they have substantially less restrictions and give substantially more freedom. At least in the traditional sense of the word. Of course, if we're operating under the redefining of words from part 1, namely that restriction = freedom, this might be different. Replacing one nonsensical example with another one then. It wouldn't make a lick of difference, case and point, numerous propriatary drivers already exist, and companies like Nvidia doesn't seem to have any problems churning them out. Let's also not forget that distros doesn't seem to have any trouble including these drivers. How exactly would a permissive license make any of this easier? Hell, if anything there are more propriatary drivers under Linux than, say, the BSD's, although that is at least partly due to most of them not being compatible anyway. I'm unsure what glue you're talking about. Neither does the GPL. It just encourages more badly written, less secure and generally more troublesome propriatary software. Whether you consider that a good thing is of course another topic.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Can I use Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux ?
sudo apt-get install gdebi-core gdebi bracket.deb
[Trisquel-users] is trisquel.info trying to block Tor users?
Hello everyone. I use Tor to do my web browsing. A few days ago, I downloaded the new TBB, 3.5 Ever since I did that, I can't access the website, it always gives me a 403 error message, and it gives a link to project honeypot (something like that). I asked in the Tor Blog, and someone said it was the website trying to block the new Tor users. I can access the website using my old TBB, but not the new one, so I would like to know if any measures have been taken to prevent Tor users from accessing the website. And if possible, I would like to ask the admins to correct the situation by preventing honeypot from affecting Tor users. There has been no abuse here by Tor users so far, so there is no reason we can't use the forum :( Thanks
Re: [Trisquel-users] is trisquel.info trying to block Tor users?
The site needs to be updated to whitelist the latest TBB user. Can you post your useragent? (You should be able to find it by typing about: in the location bar). Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] libre gps hardware
As far as I know, there are FLOSS GPS software alternatives, but no open source GPS hardware alternatives. It might even be impossible, because maybe ALL satellites require some kind of signature from the hardware. A home made GPS might never work. But I don't know, if there is let me know :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnome shell privacy issue : Auto answering voice and video calls
I meant if they wanted to make Gnome Shell the default desktop in the future.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnome shell privacy issue : Auto answering voice and video calls
Damn... that's almost like bringing NSA to the masses. It doesn't matter if it's a bug, an anti-feature, or even a bad feature inserted on purpose, it has to be REMOVED NOW! Too bad we don't have good old gnome 2 anymore =( I have been thinking what DE to use in my Debian machine. LXDE and XFCE don't really do what I want, and Gnome and KDE are too heavy for my machine (no graphics due to requiring non-free firmware). So I am stuck with Gnome 3 in classic mode (which does not work at 100%). Mate was the best I had so far, but it is not in the repos, and I really hate to use PPAs =/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnome shell privacy issue : Auto answering voice and video calls
We DO have Gnome2, it's just called MATE now. What's wrong with getting it via a ppa?
Re: [Trisquel-users] is trisquel.info trying to block Tor users?
Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/24.0 I believe this is what you were asking. Right? So... how long until the new TBB is allowed in here? :P Kidding aside, it shouldn't happen, I mean, if people download the latest TBB they have to keep using the old (unsafer) one until the website whitelist the new one. That is, in my opinion, not the best way to run things...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
You mean a few years later someone developed his own operating system to replace Minix, and then eventually a bunch of useful gnu packages got added to it. And it was called Linux. Regardless of history, considering the gnu tools are just a small part of the userland today, it makes sense to name the system after it's central and most important component, which is after all the Linux kernel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnome shell privacy issue : Auto answering voice and video calls
First, by running only repository software, at least in Debian, there is a lot less chance something will crash or cause conflicts with other software (that's why they call it stable). Second, when you run only software from the repositories, you are trusting only ONE source. Whenever you add a PPA you are trusting more and more sources, opening door for attacks (let's say an attacker can't get into Trisquel or Debian repositories, but they get to invade a PPA, and add an update with anti-features in it). I read that maybe when next stable comes out, Debian will also ship with Mate, but until then we are left with PPA.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
I made this post recently: https://nerdpol.ch/posts/474614 dudeski, I don't care what the traditional definition of the word freedom is. What matters is what it means today. The relevant definition of freedom is the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action.[1] In other words, having power over your own life and choices. You absolutely cannot control your computing without the source code to the programs you run. If you don't have the source code, you don't control your computing; the developers of the software you are using do. The GNU GPL does not allow you to give a binary to someone else without also offering the source code and the same license to use that source code you got. You say this takes away freedom, but it doesn't; refusing to give someone who receives a program from you the source code is not freedom, it's power over that other person. The GNU GPL includes a restriction of power, not a restriction of freedom. You seem to be pretending that every restriction is exactly the same and therefore incompatible with freedom. [1] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freedom
Re: [Trisquel-users] is trisquel.info trying to block Tor users?
On 17/12/13 23:21, gnuser wrote: Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/24.0 I believe this is what you were asking. Right? So... how long until the new TBB is allowed in here? :P Kidding aside, it shouldn't happen, I mean, if people download the latest TBB they have to keep using the old (unsafer) one until the website whitelist the new one. That is, in my opinion, not the best way to run things... Yes, this was what I needed, thanks. :-) I just posted on the Trisquel-devel mailing list, so it should hopefully be whitelisted soon. I personally don't like the whitelist approach, but on the other hand it seems to be somewhat effective at keeping spam out (from what I've noticed anyway). Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] is trisquel.info trying to block Tor users?
thanks! Hope it get's fixed soon :) Maybe the trisquel project could arrange some way to, with help from the tor project, to automatically whitelist the newer TBB when they make a release. Possible?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
[citation needed] I want you to take a look at your package manager, dudeski. I don't care what GNU/Linux operating system you're using, it's the came. Look for a package called libc6, or libc, or glibc. This is the GNU C Library (glibc). There's a history behind the name: once upon a time, the Linux developers used glibc, but then they decided it wasn't good enough, so the Linux developers made a fork of glibc called Linux libc. Later, glibc 2.0 was released, and it was better than Linux libc, development of Linux libc stopped, and operating systems that were using Linux libc renamed glibc to libc.so.6. In short, all GNU/Linux systems have used either glibc or a variant of glibc, and today they all use glibc. So what does this mean? It means that they're binary-compatible. If you replaced glibc with an entirely different C library, all of those binaries which are claimed to be Linux binaries would stop working. They aren't just Linux binaries; they're GNU/Linux binaries. They only work on GNU/Linux systems. They aren't going to work on Android any more than they are going to work on GNU/Hurd systems. Next, I want you to look for a package called coreutils. This is the GNU Core Utilities. It provides all basic commands including (among others) cat, chmod, chown, cp, dd, echo, ls, ln, mkdir, mv, rm, rmdir, and uname. Unlike glibc, this one can theoretically be replaced, but it isn't; this is where you're getting all the basic utilities. You can't use the system without these basic utilities. Even if you never use the command line, other programs make use of these utilities for you. Next, I want you to look for a package called bash. This is the GNU Bourne Again SHell. This is the interpreter that allows you to use the command line and run shell scripts. Like coreutils, this can be theoretically replaced, but it isn't. Also like coreutils, you can't just remove Bash and expect your system to work. Nothing will work with out a shell script interpreter. To recap: glibc, coreutils, and Bash are ESSENTIAL to making your system work. glibc can't even theoretically be replaced with something else; that would give you a completely different POSIX system, not binary-compatible with GNU/Linux systems. coreutils and Bash could theoretically be replaced with another collection of core POSIX utilities and another shell script interpreter, but everyone uses these because they're the best. But that's not even all there is to it. Search these packages: ed, nano, gimp, gnuchess, gnupg (or gpg), gzip, parted, and tar. Chances are, many of these non-essential programs exist on your GNU/Linux system. ed and nano are basic command-line editors. The GIMP is a very popular image editing program. gnuchess is used as a backend for many chess games. GPG is a commonly-used implementation of PGP. gzip is not only the program most commonly used to compress in and uncompress from the Gzip (.gz) format, but it is where that format comes from. tar, or a replacement, is needed to extract and archive Tar files. parted is the backend to GParted (which itself is part of the GNU project, by being part of GNOME). So a final recap: not only is GNU essential to all GNU/Linux systems, not completely replaceable even if someone is interested in doing all the unnecessary work required to replace it, there are also a bunch of very popular GNU programs in use in just about every GNU/Linux system. Saying gnu tools are just a small part of the userland today is preposterous. GNU is important, at least as important as if not more important than Linux.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnome shell privacy issue : Auto answering voice and video calls
You mean, in the future, when they use a current version that doesn't have this bug? Since it's already been pointed out that this doesn't happen in GNOME 3.8?
[Trisquel-users] Re : Can I use Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux ?
Thank you ! It's work fine !! :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Can I use Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux ?
I kind of wonder, why isn't GDebi installed by default? I know this is an upstream thing (though I don't know if it's Ubuntu or Debian), but I kind of wonder what the reason is.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
I can see the benefits of using the GPL for a project as a whole, but I believe permissive licenses (BSD, MIT) work really well for creating libraries that are integrated into bigger projects or to get the widest adoption. Think of Vorbis. It may be under a BSD style license and while it is true that a company can take it and make it proprietary, but the main project is free software and the permissive license was needed to provide a strong competitor to MP3 by allowing the codec to be integrated anywhere.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
Nevertheless, it is completely ridiculous to keep this name-war alive since we _cannot win_. People call it Linux, and they will do so for ever and ever and it is extremly unlikely that this will change. It may be unjust but this is how it is! We cannot force the whole world to call it Gnu/linux, and if we keep on trying, all we gain is confusion and misunderstanding. And after all, it's only a name. Now, hold back with the old name convey ideas story. This is true, but actually we do harm to the original idea. Instead of pointing out why freedom matters we try to change a word and give credit to someone who is not around to appreciate it. It was a mistake of the gnu developers not to finish their own kernel. This lead to the collective misunderstanding of the name of the operating system and I think *they* should do something for their credit. If they want it so badly, then they have to finish hurd and make their own OS. I will not waste my time any longer throwing stones into the grand canyon.
Re: [Trisquel-users] ASM 68k
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 23:48:35 +0200 Ivaylo Valkov iva...@e-valkov.org wrote: В 21:54 +0100 на 10.12.2013 (вт), Pascal Diogo Antunes написа: No, It's my work for school. I have to develop an ASM program for 68k arch, but I don't have no computer with 68k. What about the good old GNU assembler? ;) I don't remember that I ever used it although I had some university projects back in the days with the Motorola 68Hxx series. I think it only supports 11 and 12 series. aptitude show binutils-m68hc1x |grep Description Description: binary utilities that support Motorola's 68HC11/12 targets sudo aptitude install binutils-m68hc1x dpkg -L binutils-m68hc1x |grep -- -as /usr/share/man/man1/m68hc11-as.1.gz /usr/bin/m68hc11-as /usr/bin/m68hc12-as /usr/share/man/man1/m68hc12-as.1.gz man m68hc12-as man m68hc12-as Another option might be crasm: aptitude show crasm |grep Description Description: Cross assembler for 6800/6801/6803/6502/65C02/Z80 More potential options with mixed results: apt-cache search assembler |less apt-cache search assembly |less If you find any free software that works, you would definitely want/have to test your code in your school's lab assembler and use hacks/code changes to make it work with both assemblers if you have to. Test it on real hardware if the lab has such and it is an requirement before you have to show it. I had a similar case with Microchip's PIC assembly for some university projects and I used gputils/gpasm. Making your code work for your teachers/your school's way is essential. The tradeoff is minimal in my opinion. :) Thanks. But crasm isn't a solution for me (assembler for 6800 and not 68000). For simulating asm 68k programs on GNUilo I found nothing. The unique solution is EASy68k (http://www.easy68k.com) + wine. But the code source is compiled by a privative compiler. The best would be to got a new executable compiled by a libre compiler, and would be great if EASy68k worked on GNUilo too (thanks to cygwin I guess). -- Libere, Pascal Diogo Antunes. tenpo li tawa la sona li kama.
Re: [Trisquel-users] SteamOS based on Debian a good thing for Ubuntu/Trisquel?
I'm not sure if you missed this, but Valve did join the Linux Foundation: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/12/valve-joins-the-linux-foundation-ahead-of-steamos-launch/ Whether that is a good thing or not in the free software camp is debatable.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Can I use Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux ?
Don't give users terminal commands if there's a graphical way to do it. Go to Add/Remove Applications, find and install GDebi, download the Brackets .deb from their website, double-click it, and click Install Package.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Can I use Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux ?
To the OP, please don't use the term open-source. Free software is correct. I downloaded and installed Brackets. Right now it's usable, but by no means fully-featured. The live preview feature only works if you have Google Chrome installed, there's no way to change preferences (indentation style appears to be the only one, but no font changes), and it doesn't have a desktop icon. Not to mention that it blanket-recommends hundreds of extensions which may or may not be free. (I tested five and found that two had no license.) I do not recommend using this software until a later stage of development.
[Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
My fresh view: Case number #1. My code is awful! If I will make it as FLOSS then I will be ridiculed for sure! For example: Hey dude, I have only one question. How this CRAP can work AT ALL?! It is THE WORST code I have ever seen! Bastard, your code will haunt me in my NIGHTMARES!!! Case number #2. My pretty! I'm the only one, who KNOW how develop this program in right way! And I'm the only one, who can DO it in right way! This list is incomplete. You can add in more cases.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
Case #3: I want to sell software and make a decent living so I can pay my bills, feed my family, and have a roof over my head.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
I think this page nicely sums when to copyleft and when not to. https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-recommendations.html#software
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
GNU is all about freedom ; Over time, calling the system “GNU/Linux” spreads awareness of the ideals of freedom for which we developed the GNU system Linux is something related to commercial and/ore inviting non-free software salesman to-do business with.It must to be understand LINUX DO NOTHING WITHOUT GNU. See the notes from Linus himself: Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info. Without any programs to run, though, the kernel cannot do anything. Notes for linux release 0.01 - Linus Torvalds Better call it as GNU/Linux as GNU must reach everyone and Kernel next.When GNU done with #HURD , we can all go ahead with GNU system and no more Linux! I don't want to call it as GNU/Hurd (once done) but simply GNU System !!! Freedom matters !!! Thanks, Kesavan Muthuvel kesavan.info
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People should stop being so stupid and insensitive with people trying to make a decent honest living. If we want creators (software or other stuff) to use freer licenses we should help creating a business model that meets everyone's needs.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
Amazingly some people would still object to that. Maybe we should also have a thread of free software mental problems lol. Anyway, yes, it's possible to make a living out of free licenses... but it's a lot HARDER and a lot more UNCERTAIN. That's why a lot of people don't use free licenses, because they might lose more that way. That being said, I like to see business models where CC and GPL licenses are used to both free the user and pay for the creators living. But I don't think we should try to peer-pressure-impose those. I for example, am not against the right kind of advertising for example. Namely, a company that sells product X gives a banner to the website owner, and it becames a part of the website, as a regular image. No links or tracks, just an image, maybe with a link provided below (again, no tracks). This way the user is respected and adblockers can't prevent the ad from appearing. Also, no need for that, because the ad is harmless. Everyone wins. But when some people around here go saying you can sell free software, GPL license does not forbid that, I just want to beat the crap out of them. They are playing blind and making all debate become useless. I enjoyed reading the suggestion you made because it might inspire some people to use freer licenses for business.In line with RMS copyright suggestions.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
You can justify almost anything with I needz to feedz. You can justify theft that way, for example. It suggests a false dichotomy: that if they don't develop proprietary software, they'll starve. In reality, if they don't develop proprietary software, they can get a job doing something else.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
I believe there are ways to develop free software for money. If you're a freelance developer, you can create your own website on where you should offer information yourself, e.g. what skills, experiences you have, and where one can hire your services (this approach is popular these days). You can also develop applications, and offer them free (in both senses), then ask for money for further development, and enhancements (e.g. make a list of most requested features, and the pricing in a similar fashion like at https://trisquel.info/tasks). If you have the ability, you can also offer support for companies on specialized free software application (this includes both software development, and technical help). Maybe you can also get a job at FSF, where there is a widespread selection of software projects on what you can work on (depending on your preferences). All of this depends on what kind of software you're developing (if I remember correctly, they were mobile applications), if you're developing from scratch, or porting desktop programs to mobile operating systems, forking/enhancing existing projects, etc., and of course, on reallife situation/limitations. Also, you can release the code on GitHub, or some other revision control system (e.g. GNU Savannah - a software development management system), and dual-license your application under both free/non-free licenses, while the proprietary counterpart will be available pre-compiled on the app store, therefore the average people will still buy your program, since they obviously doesn't want to struggle with building stuff. And so on... If you're a proprietary software developer, I encourage you to add a time-based promise to your license, that will ensure that after a period of time, all the code will be released as free software. This way, even if you're struggling because you cannot make living out of development of FLOSS, it will both encourage users to buy your program in some way, but most importantly, this ensures that after the program served its purpose, it will eventually became free. I wish most of the proprietary software developers will follow the same route. Regerds, Peter
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
What matters most isn't the name. What matters most is that people actually believe that the whole system they're thinking of is Linux and that it was started by Torvalds in 1991. In reality, what happened is a lot more complex than that, and Torvalds gets undue credit. Richard Stallman started a system called GNU in 1983; that was never released. Then, Torvalds decided he wanted to make a small clone of Unix inspired by MINIX, for which he chose the name Linux. But Torvalds never finished his project, either. The reason neither GNU nor Linux, the operating system were ever finished is because GNU already fulfilled the job of the userland, core utilities, etc, and the Linux kernel already fulfilled the job of being a kernel. So rather than the FSF finishing GNU or Torvalds finishing Linux, what actually happened was some other parties combined GNU and Linux together. I don't know what the very first such combination was, but the first that still is maintained today was Slackware. But these people who combined GNU and Linux to make a new operating system didn't recognize it as such. They overestimated the value of Linux and underestimated the value of GNU. As a result, they called such systems Linux systems, and Torvalds supported this; he saw the combination of the incomplete GNU system and the incomplete Linux system as Linux, when it is just as much GNU as it is Linux (i.e. it is neither). Torvalds has actually talked in a manner that clearly suggests that he is responsible for starting this thing that he calls Linux, which makes Torvalds either incredibly stupid, mentally disabled, or a liar. I list options because of laws about libel Yes, the name doesn't matter on its own. But what matters is the very wrong impressions people get when they hear Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, Trisquel, and other systems being described as Linux systems. The impression that they get is that Torvalds is more important than he actually is, that Android is a similar system, and that GNU is irrelevant. But the thing is, Linux is very clearly associated with Torvalds, partly because it contains his name, and this isn't going to change any time soon. So in order to crush the fallacy that Torvalds is entirely responsible for GNU/Linux systems, we need to either reject calling them Linux systems, or explain very clearly every single time we mention Linux that it is actually a system that combines GNU and Linux. Just saying GNU/Linux is a lot easier. Also, I consider GNU/Linux system to be a part of the description. I reject the idea of calling a system Foobar GNU/Linux; I call the system Foobar, and *describe* it as a GNU/Linux system (among other things). The only exception might be if there are variants that are different kinds of systems, like the distinction between Debian GNU/Linux, Debian GNU/Hurd, and Debian GNU/kFreeBSD (I would be fine with shortening these to Linux Debian, Hurd Debian, and kFreeBSD Debian as well, since they're all GNU systems).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
I've seen one guy who insisted that he could absolutely not release the source code to a program (a game, to be more specific) because he felt like it was his baby, and he couldn't stand the thought of not having a monopoly on manufacturing copies of the program and improving its design. So not only did he not release the source code, he also implemented digital restriction mechanisms to make it impossible to change the graphics, because he didn't want his precious baby tampered with. It isn't for control of your computer, it's for control of my creation.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libre fonts I've found
New libre font! It looks like I caught this one within seconds of its upload on FontSquirrel; right now it has only 2 downloads! The font is called Clear Sans, and it was developed by Intel. It is licensed under the Apache License. Click here to download it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
Quote from GNUser You know, there is a difference between an honest job and theft. Yes, but you're missing the point. The point is that an unethical action doesn't cease to be unethical simply because you can make money doing it. Quote from GNUser If a developer produces proprietary software to sell and also develops some free software that he releases for free, what are we going to say, that he is half good half evil?? No, we are going to say that they are doing some good things, but that they are also doing some bad things. We can condemn bad actions and condone good actions of the same person; there's no conflict here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
..Wow, I thought the DSM V was full of bullshit conditions, but this thread really takes the cake.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
You know, there is a difference between an honest job and theft. And even so, most of us would hardly condemn a man who steals food for his kids to eat. So, yeah, your argument was pretty much out of context. Having said that, like I said there are people who like to be stupid and play blind to the facts of life. If a developer produces proprietary software to sell and also develops some free software that he releases for free, what are we going to say, that he is half good half evil?? We should stop attacking someone who is trying to make a living, and start giving them alternatives. And like... put ourselves in their shoes not just say you could put your stuff on the net and hope for the best, no actually give them ideas that we know we would take money out of our pockets and give them to support. Merely saying proprietary software is evil is no use.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Can I use Brackets in Trisquel GNU/Linux ?
People can just install it if they need it, Instead of uninstalling it if they do not need it?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
listen to him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45POFB1b8pM
[Trisquel-users] vPro full support is coming to linux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMDKVfaHRJg
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
DSM V?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
That would be one example of a psychological problem, lol. But the same could be said about some free software projects out there :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
Can you put this post under a free license?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
Well, if you wanna redefine words in the english langauge, go ahead. I frankly couldn't care less what they mean in your particular alternate universe. The point is OEMs should have the freedom to bundle whatever they want. And the last thing anyone needs is bullshit government legislation about software. Get a grip on reality, that line of thinking never ends well. That's a purely theoretical control, nobody inspects all their source code, and very few compile their systems from source. Not to mention there's no control over the hardware layer anyway, so this is already moot. No, that's the GPL requirement, if you're dealing with GPL code you have to abide by it's restrictions, obviously. Copyleft is perfectly fine if that's what you wanna do, but pretending that a restrictive license is somehow more free or has more freedom for anyone than a permissive one is just silly. Restrictions are restrictions. That's all there is to that. Obviously they're not all equal, nor did I ever claim they were. What the OEM thing above is essentially saying is that people are too damn stupid to know what they want or what's good for them, and as such we must make all things that doesn't conform with one entirely subjective view of the world illegal and abolished. This amounts to taking away freedom of choice. And I think we all know that if the FSF had their way it'd be illegal to write propriatary software or sell non-open hardware. That's no different from any other tyranny, what you're advocating does indeed amount to forcing freedom on people. the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action Indeed, that does sound like freedom, and even someone as horrid as a hardware store or a programmer should have it. If they wanna write propriatary software, that's their right. If you don't wanna use it, that's yours. In regards to your post, yes, of course the GPL doesn't force anything on anyone, as it's up to them whether or not to use GPL code in the first place. Very much like it's up to us whether we buy a computer from Lenovo or use a system with propriatary components. Nobody's forcing you to use a computer at all, certainly nobody's forcing you to use Windowns. My objection is simply to the general notion that software should be somehow regulated or that OEMs shouldn't be able to put whatever they want on the hardware they sell.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
I'm well aware what glibc is, and what gnu packages exist on my system, thank you very much.. xD Now then, in no particular order. Nonsense, glibc is surely the standard, but it's not somehow magically essential. There are many other C libraries, like libc from BSD, uClibc, even Microsoft has one for crying out loud. It could be replaced, and yes, your binaries would probably need some recompiling and essentially everything would break. ...Well, yeah? So would any Qt apps if you suddenly changed that library, or GTK2 apps, or whatever apps. What's your point? All these things are userland stuff that's perfectly replaceable. Same argument for bash, coreutils, etc. Obviously there's no need or desire to change the current standards, but that doesn't mean you couldn't. As such they're not ESSENTIAL, as you say, just a standard that would be highly convenient for everyone involved to keep. So far as I'm concerned Android is technically a Linux distro, but I don't go around calling it a Bionic/Linux distro, or a Google/Linux distro. That'd be silly. And sure, the GNU userland is used in a very large subset of Linux distros, and if you wanna call those GNU/Linux, go ahead, I'll still consider it in the broader sense of a Linux system. Hey, hey, hey! Nobody's saying the gnu packages aren't important, obviously. But then X11 is also important, for most people things like a browser, a java runtime environment, drivers, assorted productivity software, even games, all kinds of software really, is also very important. Have you seen the rather staggering amount of packages needed for all these things? At the end of the day it makes sense to me to call a system by it's principal component, which is and will always be the kernel. I'm not trying to dictate what anyone else calls it, that's their choice, but frankly I'm annoyed with people going Call it GNU/Linux or GNU+Linux or whatever else along those lines. The world too seems to have decided on Linux as a name, that's the standard nomenclature, might as well go with it.
[Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
We've got people defending the development of proprietary software and comparing software freedom to tyranny. This is unacceptable. Trisquel is an FSF-endorsed distribution; there is no place for the expression of these viewpoints on our forums. These people need to go. Are there procedures in place to remove them? Who has that authority? If no one does, I volunteer. Something needs to be done.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
Yes, god forbid someone expresses an opinion that differs from yours!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
This is a Dictatorship all of them must be erradicated if not at least out of here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Compile Abrowser for Windows and OS X
So... MinGW is a free compiler for windows executables?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
So far as I'm concerned Android is technically a Linux distro, but I don't go around calling it a Bionic/Linux distro, or a Google/Linux distro. You got a point there. I'm not trying to dictate what anyone else calls it, that's their choice, but frankly I'm annoyed with people going Call it GNU/Linux or GNU+Linux or whatever else along those lines. +1 I hate this posts like don't use this term. Use that one instead. $link to gnu page right which tells you not to use it here$. That's really the most annoying and counterproductive attitude ever.
[Trisquel-users] Changing system fonts (especially monospace)
By default, Trisquel's monospace font is DejaVu Sans Mono. I partially changed it to Source Code Pro a while ago (a method I've since lost) and now I'd like to change it to Cousine. Using the graphical settings menu and gsettings, I've changed most of the system monospaced fonts to Cousine. However, this hasn't had full effect. I'm still typing this post in Source Code Pro, and once in a while DejaVu Sans Mono still appears. So how can I change these fonts system-wide?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Migration from Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy) to Trisquel 6.0 (Toutatis)
Sure, I'll put it under CC0: https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Compile Abrowser for Windows and OS X
On 18/12/13 09:22, gramex wrote: So... MinGW is a free compiler for windows executables? Yes, MinGW is free software. I believe it is based on an old version of GCC adapted for Windows. Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Problem with File Browser
I did but the problem persists
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
Hi, is this thread because of my thread? If so while I strongly disagree with dudeski I don't think he should be prevented from posting because of his viewpoint. I don't know him well enough to argue if he's done anything wrong but it seems to me he hasn't done any wrong doings.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Changing system fonts (especially monospace)
I just made this a couple of hours ago. https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/change-user-interface-fonts
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
I don't think censorship is the right policy here, and I don't think this forum has a duty to shield us from viewpoints that are not our own. Exchange of ideas is good, not bad.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
El 17/12/13 19:50, onp...@riseup.net escribió: I don't think censorship is the right policy here, and I don't think this forum has a duty to shield us from viewpoints that are not our own. Exchange of ideas is good, not bad. I agree. I think that politely asking people not to promote non-free software on this list and insist politely is the best way. Censorship is the way no-free software limits users. We don't do that. ;-) -- Saludos libres, Quiliro Ordóñez Presidente (en co-gobierno con los socios) Asociación de Software Libre del Ecuador - ASLE Teléfono: 6008579 Recuerda que todas tus comunicaciones están siendo vigiladas. Lo que puedes hacer para restar su eficacia es eliminar el software privativo de tus computadores, evitar el software como servicio, almacenar tus datos en tus propios equipos y encriptar todas tus comunicaciones. Toda la información contenida en este mensaje es libre de uso y distribución con o sin modificaciones y todo correo que reciba implica que el remitente acepta que tendrá las mismas libertades sin importar cualquier clausula de confidencialidad o restricción anterior o posterior. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
Your post is longer than the one you responded to, but what you say suggests you didn't read what I said. I did not redefine English words. I pointed you to one of the most prominent English dictionaries. YOU redefined the English word freedom to include the power to control others' computing. dudeski said: That's a purely theoretical control, nobody inspects all their source code, and very few compile their systems from source. You have freedom if you are *able* to control your computing. You don't have to exercise your freedom to have it. Your statement here is as ridiculous as, Free speech is purely theoretical, nobody says everything that comes to mind, and very few protest on the streets. dudeski said: If they wanna write propriatary software, that's their right. If you don't wanna use it, that's yours. Write proprietary software means write software and forbid others from doing anything you don't approve of to it. The ability to do this is not freedom, it's power. Using the definition of freedom you chose, copyleft means you don't have the freedom to take away other people's freedom. Using that same definition and wording, you could say that you don't have the freedom to kill people. Being coerced into not doing something isn't inherently evil. Unless you're going to say that laws against arson, murder, and rape are unjust because they take away people's freedom to do these things, you can't say that copyleft is bad because it takes away people's freedom to take away other people's freedom.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
As a reminder, Trisquel does have community guidelines: http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/trisquel-community-guidelines In particular I'd like to point out #5 in the Guiding Principles. People that repeatedly disregard the Community Guidelines, especially after having this pointed out to them multiple times, should be candidates for banning. IMO, this is not censorship - No one's free speech rights are impacted because they can say whatever they want elsewhere. Free speech doesn't mean people get to say what they want on someone else's website.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
I made this issue several days ago because of other annoying users which should be banned (vPro) http://trisquel.info/en/issues/10727
Re: [Trisquel-users] Problem with File Browser
Did you try restarting your computer?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
Censorship cannot pave the way to freedom. (1) I think users/comments/propaganda that advocate non-free/proprietary software and related stuff should be seen as an opportunity to further expand and explain the values of freedom. We come across these ideas AFK too. And I don't think we have ready-made answers to each and every comment. It is a living process. So my suggestion is let them be. Those who advocate freedom can (ad should) find ways to answer these claims. Forum members can politely engage in a debate and critique these views. IMHO giving the power of banning people to certain users can create further unnecessary problems. (2) If someone violates the Code of Conduct, we already know what to do. Code of conduct includes: *Discrimination: Don't discriminate against people based on race, gender, sex, sexual orientation, religion, disability, age, class, intelligence, or any analogous grounds. **Language: Express yourself without hard language (e.g. cursing). Social norms differ from place to place. Hard language could deter people from visiting our site, or from getting involved in our community. ***Personal attacks: We don't tolerate personal attacks here. We encourage discussion. Disagree with others and challenge their ideas. Don't feed the trolls. Please report any flaming/flame-baiting to a moderator using the contact page. from https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/trisquel-community-guidelines
Re: [Trisquel-users] Changing system fonts (especially monospace)
As I said, I've done that already. But it's not working for the monospaced fonts.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
What about users like me, who either have or had questions about free software? Would that be forbidden, too? I think some of this type of discussion is necessary. For mailing list users who can't see HTML links: http://trisquel.info/en/forum/ot-why-program-being-nonfree-reason-enough-avoid-it https://trisquel.info/en/forum/common-arguments-nonfree-software
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
How else can you sit in front of the computer and code if you cannot eat and risk passing out? :-)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
No wonder this site is under the NSA watch list for evangelism
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
There are levels of ethical actions. There's a big difference between stealing or killing for money and developing non-free software. Some software hippy extremists like RMS compare the 2 as if they are equally bad, however rational thinkers like GNUser and I realize that there is a difference between a petty unethical action and a completely unethical action.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
No, not evangelism. Free software is not a religious movement. You realize that https://stallman.org/saint.html is for humor only right?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
If you don't want to license your code in GPL, no one is stopping you. Over the past few years with web startups and hot new technology like Node.js, they opt for permissive licenses. They want you to use the code on your servers without restriction or conflict with existing code. This is the opposite of the GPL licensed software where the copyright holder has an alterior motive to dual license or release GPL code to the public but then offer a propietary license to allow full freedom with the code (like a permissive license) for a fee. If you use GPL code in a company, you are legally forced to contribute code (that may have modifications you don't want to move back upstream) and most employers don't want that. You then ask yourself OMG THEY ARE A STARTUP AND ARE SMALL BUT RISK HAVING A BIG COMPANY STEAL THEIR CODE AND CLAIM THEIR OWN AND MAKE IT NONFREE DUE TO A MIT LICENSE and then you realize that most people would rather contribute back to an existing and thriving code base instead of forking it unless they have the resources and generally feel they can improve upon it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
That's a strawman. I never said that developing proprietary software is just as bad as theft or murder, and I'm not aware of anyone who does.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
RMS has stated so in an interview
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
I think that deserves a [citation needed].
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
And what what time point?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
Get a job. ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Concern about GNU/Linux becoming more proprietary
If you use GPL code in a company, you are legally forced to contribute code (that may have modifications you don't want to move back upstream) and most employers don't want that. Not true... Hasn't this been explained to you before? The GPL never requires you to share anything. That would be a proprietary license. You are only required to share the source code with people you share the program with in the first place.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
56:04 Are you actually putting the needs of having no non free software above the needs of feeding my kid? Absolutely. I don't see much difference between what you're saying and what, uh, a thief or swindler would say, trying to justify what he's doing.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
He said exactly the same thing I said: that just because you can make money from something unethical does not mean that it's OK. He compared it to theft (I think) as an analogy. This was an incredibly simple analogy: proprietary software is unethical, theft is unethical. In the same way we don't excuse theft because it makes you money, he doesn't excuse proprietary software because it makes people money. An analogy like this does not imply that you think the two things are the same. Please, this is not that complicated. I shouldn't have to explain to you how analogies work.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
I never said they were the same, or that anyone else said they were the same. I shouldn't have to explain to you how to comprehend english.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Changing system fonts (especially monospace)
I have changed the fonts there, and it is not working.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
More seriously, sell support for free software, whether you wrote it or not, or do it as a side activity. It's not a very realistic scenario where someone can't get a job delivering pizza, or be a janitor, etc., but can be a (proprietary) software developer.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
On 18/12/13 13:58, oralfloss wrote: 56:04 Are you actually putting the needs of having no non free software above the needs of feeding my kid? Absolutely. I don't see much difference between what you're saying and what, uh, a thief or swindler would say, trying to justify what he's doing. RMS is exactly right, but the way he said it is easily taken out of context. The presenter suggested that if he didn't release proprietary software he wouldn't eat, *which simply wasn't true*. Either he could find another job, or he could use social welfare (which admittedly isn't a good option). A thief is the same, he/she has a reason for stealing, i.e. feeding themselves or their family, and refusing to accept they can do another job to earn a living. Do the ends justify the means, especially if there are other ways to reach those ends? Not if those means are unethical and there is a better way. Of course not everyone accepts that proprietary software is bad. Not everyone accepts that stealing is bad either. If you think that proprietary software isn't bad, not sure why you'd be on this forum... Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
Here's what I said: Some software hippy extremists like RMS compare the 2 as if they are equally bad Here's what RMS said: Absolutely. I don't see much difference between what you're saying and what, uh, a thief or swindler would say, trying to justify what he's doing. Tell me what strawman there is here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Forum moderation
Free software forums are notorious troll magnets. All kinds of trolls can be found ranging from paid pro-proprietary software shills to rabid BSD freedom fighters. Ethics are difficult and people tend to get angry when confronted with moral issues. I'm all for discussing the themes around free software but I don't think we have to tolerate every affront and personal attack.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
Heh, omitting something, aren't we? There are levels of ethical actions. There's a big difference between stealing or killing for money and developing non-free software. Some software hippy extremists like RMS compare the 2 as if they are equally bad, however rational thinkers like GNUser and I realize that there is a difference between a petty unethical action and a completely unethical action. So first you claim RMS says murdering and non-free software are the same. And then you provide no evidence when asked. That's what a strawman is.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
oralfloss wrote: There are levels of ethical actions. There's a big difference between stealing or killing for money and developing non-free software. ... Some software hippy extremists like RMS compare the 2 as if they are equally bad ... Tell me what strawman there is here. Here: equally bad Did RMS ever say or even suggest that proprietary software and murder are equally bad? Please stop trolling, Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
It's a shame that all you can do is critique someone's words and disecy them as much as you can just to prove nothing other than that I made a minor mistake. It's no wonder why discussion never go anywhere around here. My point is that he compares unethical actions to other unethical actions, and finds little difference. That is what I showed evidence for with the video, times, and a direct quote. Murdering was just another example of another unethical action. Before you speak to me about some logical fallacies realize how ironic you're being. Are you really trying to defend freedom or just win an internet debate? I'm clearly showing my personal views on subjects while all you can do is disect my words as if you're some logical expert.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Proprietary software as result of psychological problems
I stand by the same reply I made to lembas.
