Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
Ahwell... you know what they say... We'll have to agree to disagree In regards to me "speaking for other people" I read ALOT about every topic you can imagine about Linux and Ubuntu in particular... which is my fav distro... I read ALOT of other peoples opinions and I ask them what their opinion is on the subject Also... I have been to uni doing Network Engineering, I have seen ALOT of Students get introduced to different flavours of linux for the first time and... I have been in classes where students have seen and Tried Ubuntu for the first time and have dismissed it as being crap.. just because they don't find it visually appealing... Not knowing how truley great this Operating System is... However, They always seem to take a liking to Other distro's like Fedora, Pclinuxos, Bsd, Sabayon, Linux Mint etc... Unfortunately People DO judge a book by its cover Ubuntu is probably the BEST distro of linux out there, especially for noobies... but it Needs to Improve its Artwork/Themes to appeal to a much larger audience... and that is FACT. agree or disagree with me, i don't care.. i have seen it with my own eyes I have spoken and asked ALOT of peoples opinions, and im judging that based on what I think... and What i Know from other peoples reactionsAfterall Even I am guilty of hating ubuntu when i first tried it because i thought it was ugly, until i learned the ins and outs of it and started to like it... but I have been up and down between Kde and Gnome for years... Kde has Always looked better, and Gnome has always been less buggier and has worked better... If only we can get Ubuntu/gnome to look up to standard with Kde, we will have a better chance to compete with Kde now that Kde 4.1 is getting VERY good as time goes by. This is what i want to see. symon. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:51 +0800, symon cadwallender wrote: > > > See The lovers of the Original Ubuntu Human theme Always get > > offended when somebody comments > > I didn't defend past and current theming as a whole. > > I'm not offended. I took issue with your statement implying that you > _know_ how a majority feels about orange. You try to frame your opinion > as being in line with a majority. Not that I'm without guilt in this > regard, but we all should raise up from that level here. > > For the rest of what you wrote: a new release is reason enough for at > least some changes to theming, if only to signify that the distro itself > changed. > > Thank you for not simply following my plea/advice. > > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > thorwil's design for free software: > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:54 +0800, symon cadwallender wrote: > quote We definitively get way too much unfounded opinions here. > Why do you think that is? h. because people know what they like... > They know what is visually appealing. > There can't be any proof... just opinions. Opinions changes the > world... If people knew what they like, they could just produce it, or? There can be much more than just opinions. There can be reason and methods. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:51 +0800, symon cadwallender wrote: > See The lovers of the Original Ubuntu Human theme Always get > offended when somebody comments I didn't defend past and current theming as a whole. I'm not offended. I took issue with your statement implying that you _know_ how a majority feels about orange. You try to frame your opinion as being in line with a majority. Not that I'm without guilt in this regard, but we all should raise up from that level here. For the rest of what you wrote: a new release is reason enough for at least some changes to theming, if only to signify that the distro itself changed. Thank you for not simply following my plea/advice. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
quote We definitively get way too much unfounded opinions here. Why do you think that is? h. because people know what they like... They know what is visually appealing. There can't be any proof... just opinions. Opinions changes the world... On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 17:22 +0800, symon cadwallender wrote: > > > Brown and Orange are definately not attractive to the majority of > > users, > > You definitively can't know that! > We definitively get way too much unfounded opinions here. > > In the very limited scope of the forum, this list and random other > places, opinions, reactions and anecdotes seem rather to support that > this topic is strongly polarising. Doesn't say much about people who > have better things to do than getting involved in online discussions. > > Those who think brown and orange should be avoided should produce > appropriate artwork. With that in hands, they could try to convince Mark > Shuttleworth. Otherwise, please don't waste everyone's time with even > more empty words. Thank you. > > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > thorwil's design for free software: > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
See The lovers of the Original Ubuntu Human theme Always get offended when somebody comments about how it looks Ugly They can't see it, They like it... which is fine. But.. if there was a poll to be conducted on this topic... Im sure that Most people would agree that the original artwork/colours need a change And That is Why Ubuntu is doing that in the next release and experimenting with different themes If everybody Loves the brown/orange theme/artwork... Then why would they be considering to change all this? It is because MOST users have gave their opinions about the current Artwork and they want to improve it. So don't get offended just because most people agree improvement needs to be done... Improvement is not a bad thing... Change is not a bad thing... Get over it dude. Ubuntu needs a makeover and that is what is happening in the next release. We all love Ubuntu, were not dissing it... but cmon... the criticism on the current state of ubuntu's artwork IS "constructive" We want to see it Improve. Thats all... symon. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 17:22 +0800, symon cadwallender wrote: > > > Brown and Orange are definately not attractive to the majority of > > users, > > You definitively can't know that! > We definitively get way too much unfounded opinions here. > > In the very limited scope of the forum, this list and random other > places, opinions, reactions and anecdotes seem rather to support that > this topic is strongly polarising. Doesn't say much about people who > have better things to do than getting involved in online discussions. > > Those who think brown and orange should be avoided should produce > appropriate artwork. With that in hands, they could try to convince Mark > Shuttleworth. Otherwise, please don't waste everyone's time with even > more empty words. Thank you. > > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > thorwil's design for free software: > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 17:22 +0800, symon cadwallender wrote: > Brown and Orange are definately not attractive to the majority of > users, You definitively can't know that! We definitively get way too much unfounded opinions here. In the very limited scope of the forum, this list and random other places, opinions, reactions and anecdotes seem rather to support that this topic is strongly polarising. Doesn't say much about people who have better things to do than getting involved in online discussions. Those who think brown and orange should be avoided should produce appropriate artwork. With that in hands, they could try to convince Mark Shuttleworth. Otherwise, please don't waste everyone's time with even more empty words. Thank you. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
I agree to a certain extent... Brown and Orange are definately not attractive to the majority of users, But I can't ever see canoncial EVER releasing an ubuntu without it, since they are obsessed with the human theme crap. It would be good if there was ATLEAST a comprimise, and maybe blend in some other colours with the human theme. The WillWill mockup is a perfect example in my opinion, a dark theme mixed in with the human theme. I think Black goes together very well with brown/orange/yellow.. Willwill mockup is the best mockup out there for ubuntu to take ideas from. Personally, i like widgets too, would be nice to have these as an option by default :) symon. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 8:51 AM, Daniel Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > On 13/08/2008, at 8:08 AM, Julian Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > thankfully Ubuntu is taking something of a risk here, the last thing > > the > > world needs is another blue theme. > > I disagree, it might be hard for a bunch of GUI artists to see but a > computer interface is not a piece of art. It doesn't need to stand out > it needs to blend in, it needs to provide the minimum functionality > with the minimum fuss. That's why al these mock-ups miss the point, > sure they look nice and they're made by very talented people, but they > put the window manager into centre stage and not the applications > themselves. And it's been mentioned before, brown and orange are not > good neutral colours, they're overpowering and ugly when used in this > way - even though there have been some really very talented designs > submitted that minimise the negative aspects of these colours. > > To be sure brown and orange are wonderful colours when used properly, > but if you want to compete with osx in terms of graphics go with > neutral colours, IMHO preferably gradients of grey. > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
since i started this i think i should explain myself. it was not my intention to ignite the brown vs non-brown argument. i was saying that for me as an unexperienced user it would have been nice back then if human had had the ability to change the "highlight" colors, because i would have liked the modern ubuntulooks look in another color (human being the only theme using ubuntulooks), but did not know how to install themes, like most users won't. what i am suggesting is something like a theme with BROWN selection colors that can be changed in the appearance properties. and about using strong colors in general (as gtk:bg or gtk:base) i think we should be careful, that can look complicated if applications use colors to display the content (eg system monitor, or simply thumbnails in nautilus): let the content shine in colors, not the gui -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
No one is saying that artists should abandon their pixmap themes. All we're saying is that the best solution for the greatest amount of people would be to take the concepts from a great pixmap theme and try and incorporate it into an engine because it will give users a lot more flexibility. >Andreas Berger wrote: > > > >(this is not a personal attack. its an attack on the "this must be > >default" mentality) > > >This is *only* if someone is trying for default Ubuntu. *WHO CARES* if > >users can change the color?! Make your vision a reality. If it's > >requires pixmaps, *AWESOME*! Don't let it stifle your creativity. > > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
Daniel Moore wrote: > On 13/08/2008, at 8:08 AM, Julian Oliver wrote: > >> thankfully Ubuntu is taking something of a risk here, the last thing >> the >> world needs is another blue theme. >> > > I disagree, it might be hard for a bunch of GUI artists to see but a > computer interface is not a piece of art. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It's *ALL* about audience. *Who* you're trying to talk to. Average joe blow wants flash for sure. If you don't, great. Awesome WM stands in wait. While I might disagree with alot of what Mark S. had said design-wise, "Pretty *is* a feature" and people want it. A GUI is all about what you want to communicate to the user. How you want to make them feel while they use the computer. But history on this list shows that most here don't have a clue on this so I'll just jump out of this chat and continue on with my brown ideas. ;) -Cory K. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
Ubuntu already uses a light grey by default, no? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
On 13/08/2008, at 8:08 AM, Julian Oliver wrote: > > > thankfully Ubuntu is taking something of a risk here, the last thing > the > world needs is another blue theme. I disagree, it might be hard for a bunch of GUI artists to see but a computer interface is not a piece of art. It doesn't need to stand out it needs to blend in, it needs to provide the minimum functionality with the minimum fuss. That's why al these mock-ups miss the point, sure they look nice and they're made by very talented people, but they put the window manager into centre stage and not the applications themselves. And it's been mentioned before, brown and orange are not good neutral colours, they're overpowering and ugly when used in this way - even though there have been some really very talented designs submitted that minimise the negative aspects of these colours. To be sure brown and orange are wonderful colours when used properly, but if you want to compete with osx in terms of graphics go with neutral colours, IMHO preferably gradients of grey. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
Steely grey themes imply mac os ones, and Ubuntu can't do anything to help that. People would just need to get that theme themselves and install it. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
..on or around Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 06:03:37PM -0400 Vadim Peretokin wrote: > I don't understand where is this brown so prominent that it's bad... it's > mostly orange that I see. > > (and the wallpaper on 8.04 rocks) i doubt a brown theme will ever be as /ubiquitously/ tolerated (let alone popular) as a blue or steely grey theme. around half my students (many of which are (interaction) design students) change the theme from human claiming that they can't stand it. some of these people say brown is "old", others "depressing" while some say it's "dirty". a few in the class seem to either not care while the remaining simply love it, mostly on the basis that "it's different". thankfully Ubuntu is taking something of a risk here, the last thing the world needs is another blue theme. i don't like the brown at all myself, finding it a bit heavy and artificial somehow. IMO a grass-green theme would be a good compromise, fresh and energetic. all said i notice that in Spain (where I live and work currently) and here in Sao Paulo Brazil (where i'm exhibiting some work currently) the Human theme seems relatively untouched on the (many) Ubuntu desktops i've encountered. there is something to be said for cultural differentiation where colour theory is concerned.. cheers, -- julian oliver http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net messages containing HTML will not be read. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
I don't understand where is this brown so prominent that it's bad... it's mostly orange that I see. (and the wallpaper on 8.04 rocks) -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
Am 12.08.2008, 23:18 Uhr, schrieb Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Andreas Berger wrote: >> > a lot of people will not like brown (as a matter of fact) and there >> will >> be no way for them with a pixmap theme. >> >> (this is not a personal attack. its an attack on the "this must be >> default" mentality) >> >> This is *only* if someone is trying for default Ubuntu. *WHO CARES* if >> users can change the color?! Make your vision a reality. If it's >> requires pixmaps, *AWESOME*! Don't let it stifle your creativity. >> >> ***_MMA_ gets to work on a brown theme just to feed the ignorant trolls. > > > I chuckle every time I see someone do something using brown that is > halfway > decent, and then get replies like "I don't like brown but this is good." > etc... > > All it takes is for someone to make something appealing using brown and > then > lo and behold, people suddenly like it! Who knew? Maybe it has something > to > do with design, choices, and proper use? > > Ashton I love Ubuntu for its brown tones! It sounds stupid, but I for myself once picked Ubuntu also for its brown design. It was a small factor, but definitely a mentionable. The brown is a corporate identity for Ubuntu, everybody who is involved in Linux recongizes this. I think themes that want to be considered as the new standard should be following that style. Marc -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Brown rocks. Get over it and being default.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Andreas Berger wrote: > > a lot of people will not like brown (as a matter of fact) and there will > be no way for them with a pixmap theme. > > (this is not a personal attack. its an attack on the "this must be > default" mentality) > > This is *only* if someone is trying for default Ubuntu. *WHO CARES* if > users can change the color?! Make your vision a reality. If it's > requires pixmaps, *AWESOME*! Don't let it stifle your creativity. > > ***_MMA_ gets to work on a brown theme just to feed the ignorant trolls. I chuckle every time I see someone do something using brown that is halfway decent, and then get replies like "I don't like brown but this is good." etc... All it takes is for someone to make something appealing using brown and then lo and behold, people suddenly like it! Who knew? Maybe it has something to do with design, choices, and proper use? Ashton -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
