Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 3:52 pm, Hartmut Noack wrote: >>> For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video >>> creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? >> >> Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the >> EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods >> they >> do suggest can at this time only be done that way. >> >> Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client >> comes in and says, "I saw this thing on U tube..." I understand you have >> had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But >> at >> this time, I would say that a PA->jack bridge is easier to set up and >> use >> than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do >> not >> play well with Jack. (I don't know any) > > That is my experience too. Once jack is started and the > pulse-jack-bridge runs, all audio-trouble is gone. Any sane > audio-application supports either Jack or PA automatically. And I cannot > see, that the PA-bridge increases the rate of xruns(as of now I have > zero of them while experimenting with Guitarix and Qtractor and watching > YT-videos as well (*videos *with* audio that is...). > > It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though Unload module-jackdbus-detect: pactl unload-module module-jackdbus-detect PA still takes up memory, but uses almost no cpu without that module. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Kdenlive is a nonlinear video editor. I use it routinely for making news videos. Although I only publish the 720p versions over Liveleak, the archived 1080p versions are of good quality. I've never used any of the nonfree editors (lightworks included), so I can't compare it to them. Lightworks requires onlne activation, a line I never cross. On 05/22/2013 at 8:22 PM, "Ralf Mardorf" wrote: > >The only NLE software I know, that might work on "better Linux home >machines" and could do "valid" NLE, might be this >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightworks it's said that it was used >for >the NLE of famous films. > >But where can we download the beta Linux version? > >The Internet claims that the film "Avatar" was edited with Avid >Media >Composer. I can't find a Linux version, but you can start using it >home >machines based on Windows and Apple. > >I didn't watch the video and I don't know what was used for NLE to >do >the Avatar film editing, but perhaps it was Avid: > >"Landau discusses the creative process behind the highest grossing >film >in history and the numerous ways Avid film and video editing >software >workflow facilitated 3D production." > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_RhRtP8-nI > >I can't verify if your claim or the information I found using >Google on >the quick are right or wrong. What is your source of information >about >video editing Hartmut? > > > > > >-- >Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list >Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
NLE done with Blender, an April Fools' joke
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?213656-Avatar-and-Blender Even if Blender should be used for a film like Avatar, then only for the 3D animation, but not the film editing. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
The only NLE software I know, that might work on "better Linux home machines" and could do "valid" NLE, might be this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightworks it's said that it was used for the NLE of famous films. But where can we download the beta Linux version? The Internet claims that the film "Avatar" was edited with Avid Media Composer. I can't find a Linux version, but you can start using it home machines based on Windows and Apple. I didn't watch the video and I don't know what was used for NLE to do the Avatar film editing, but perhaps it was Avid: "Landau discusses the creative process behind the highest grossing film in history and the numerous ways Avid film and video editing software workflow facilitated 3D production." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_RhRtP8-nI I can't verify if your claim or the information I found using Google on the quick are right or wrong. What is your source of information about video editing Hartmut? -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:51 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:16 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > > Am 23.05.2013 00:39, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > > >> If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do > > >> anything qjackctl can do > > > > > > I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything > > > you can do using qjackctl. > > > > > > Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 > > > Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 > > > Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 > > > > > > The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect > > > them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script > > > to start a session? > > > > OFFLIST: die Patchbay von Qjackctl kann das. Man kann sogar mit > > regulären Ausdrücken nach Ports suchen lassen, die automatisch verbunden > > werden, sobald sie im System auftauchen. Wenn man die genauen Namen > > kennt, kann man es auch einfach zusammenklicken... > > Als ich das zuletzt mit QjackCtl versucht habe, musste ich das manuell > machen, da die Karten automatisch nicht unterschieden werden konnten. > Jedenfalls stimme ich zu, dass QjackCtl, soweit ich weiß, dass am > wahrscheinlichsten können könnte. >^^ Das sehen Deutschlehrer wahrscheinlich > gar nicht gerne :D. That wasn't off-list *lol*. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:16 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 23.05.2013 00:39, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > >> If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do > >> anything qjackctl can do > > > > I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything > > you can do using qjackctl. > > > > Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 > > Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 > > Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 > > > > The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect > > them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script > > to start a session? > > OFFLIST: die Patchbay von Qjackctl kann das. Man kann sogar mit > regulären Ausdrücken nach Ports suchen lassen, die automatisch verbunden > werden, sobald sie im System auftauchen. Wenn man die genauen Namen > kennt, kann man es auch einfach zusammenklicken... Als ich das zuletzt mit QjackCtl versucht habe, musste ich das manuell machen, da die Karten automatisch nicht unterschieden werden konnten. Jedenfalls stimme ich zu, dass QjackCtl, soweit ich weiß, dass am wahrscheinlichsten können könnte. ^^ Das sehen Deutschlehrer wahrscheinlich gar nicht gerne :D. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 01:25, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 00:52 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Anything beyond that such as video for the web can be done and is done >> in Linux for years now. Have a look at the Blender-Movies, if you >> really believe, only vacation-reels can be made in Linux. > > You're mistaken, AFAIK valid NLVE I am not really sure, what "valid" non linear video editing could be. If I see a video made with KDEnlive or Blender I only see a video, not KDEnlive or Blender or AVID or anything. A video is a sequence of pictures accompanied with sound that look as if they are moving when played on a DVD-Player or in YouTube. Any entity that needs a video more "valid" than this will deploy a workstation. > can be done with proprietary software > on Apple and Microsoft based machines at home, but AFAIK there's still > no Linux software for doing this. There might be some unpayable Linux > software for NLVE available, I don't know. Must be, anyway all Hollywood blockbusters of the last 10 years are made on Linux-machines. But it could be, that Avatar, LOTR and the like are not really "valid". Seeing them still was some fun I regretfully admit. > > Do you have any NLVE for Linux in mind? > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:10 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > And that team is in charge, is it not? Thats why I ask you for help, > as I did in many other places too. My hope is, that you do know those > mages, who actually can fix the trouble and that you can point them to > that problem and make them fix it. Because you are the team, that > officially makes Ubuntu Studio, not only a anonymous single user out > there. The issue is upstream, they make the most of the decisions, package maintains often can't solve that easily. Report the bugs you experience and the wishes you have to upstream. You shouldn't do this, if you should be thin-skinned. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 23:22, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 12:25 am, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: >>> This is an interesting project. >> >> To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for >> installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, >> if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name >> it. >> >> So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point >> your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting >> too: >> >> >> Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with >> priority 10 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path >> "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already >> registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 >> error : A handler is already registered for >> /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server >> >> >> To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported >> hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing >> to be achieved I dare to think. > > Thankyou for your comment. I can not work on your problem for a number of > reasons. The first being that with two computers and 5 different audio > interfaces, I have not had that problem. So for me to work on it, you > would have to ship your system to me so I can "work on it". You do not need to fix it, I would consider it a major improvement and call you a sage, if you could only tell me, what could be the actual reason for it. I suspect, that I could find a way to fix it myself and share this fix with the world if I only would know wehre exactly to begin I was even grepping thru /etc in the faint hope to find that config-file that has something related to that message. It is a part of PA, so much I did find out: http://git.0pointer.de/?p=reserve.git;a=blob;f=reserve.txt so it is PA in collaboration with dbus. Do you know a place, where I can find the documentation how dbus is configured to run PA in Ubuntu? > And if it > turned out that this was an upstream problem, I would have to ship your > system (or sound card) upstream to someone who was willing to work on it. You know and I know, that this has nothing to do with my hardware. I run this gear all day perfectly OK once I have started it by un/replugging the interface several times. And I can reproduce the problem at will. It is a matter of software, software-setup I guess. > Second, I am not a coder. I can do shell script (bash, tcl/tk and some > python) and a bit of c, so long as time is not a consideration... in other > words I would not even try to look at real time coding or anything that > needed special libs. That stuff right now is beyond me. C++ just doesn't > make sense to me, I can use some of the GUI stuff by following examples, > but I don't really understand what I am doing. Third, this is not a paid > position. That is not how community projects work. If this was a > commercial project, the first thing that would happen is they would hire > someone better than me. Second that person would have specific goals such > as you ask. But in the community based project, volunteers look around for > what they can do and what interests them and do it. That is what I am > doing. I do also do ISO and install testing as well as some (very little > right now) recording. So I know that for my systems jack (and pulse) both > work. Speaking of community, as you are a part of it and have a special > interest in the problem you have, perhaps you should start there. What > some of us can do is help you understand where to start, and what steps to > take. (welcome to the team) > >> Ahhh: OK, OK: if you can *promise*, that you can make the above >> mentioned failed to start kind of thing disappeare for good, I would >> provide a nice US-Menu and some documentation too for running US under >> KDE. And half a dozen Wallpapers > > How much are you willing to pay for this service? For these promises? Ohhh sorry for that I thought delivering a working system was your promise anyway, I only asked for a promise to not forget that. > How > much of a wage are you willing to pay so that we can hire some coders to > fix your problems? This is a volunteer project, we are happy when people > do something productive that moves the project forward. Last time I checked, reporting bugs was considered something to move a project forward. So I expose to you my bug, you crush it, get the fun and the fame. To increase the motivation I am willing to work for you by providing a solution for you latest project: runnin
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 00:52 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Anything beyond that such as video for the web can be done and is done > in Linux for years now. Have a look at the Blender-Movies, if you > really believe, only vacation-reels can be made in Linux. You're mistaken, AFAIK valid NLVE can be done with proprietary software on Apple and Microsoft based machines at home, but AFAIK there's still no Linux software for doing this. There might be some unpayable Linux software for NLVE available, I don't know. Do you have any NLVE for Linux in mind? -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 00:39, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: >> If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do >> anything qjackctl can do > > I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything > you can do using qjackctl. > > Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 > Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 > Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 > > The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect > them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script > to start a session? OFFLIST: die Patchbay von Qjackctl kann das. Man kann sogar mit regulären Ausdrücken nach Ports suchen lassen, die automatisch verbunden werden, sobald sie im System auftauchen. Wenn man die genauen Namen kennt, kann man es auch einfach zusammenklicken... bis bald HZN > > AFAIK I need to connect them using QjackCtl manually. Perhaps it can be > done with the alsa equivalent to jack_control, but perhaps it's > impossible, AFAIR aj-snapshot can't do it and QjackCtl can't do it > automagically, I didn't use them for a long time, often I remove the > envy24 driver and use the RME card only. > > > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 23:28, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 11:09 am, Eric Hedekar wrote: >> However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this >> is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. > > If it is what is within the "developers" capabilities and interests, why not? > > remember none of us are paid for any of this. Also think what you would do > if any time you started to work on something as a volunteer and people > told you don't do that do this that you can't do... you would walk away. I was hoping, that I have stated my point in a sane manner, maybe my anger gave it a slightely rantish flavour, for this I apologize. Anyway, I do know, that there are not many people, who can fix the real trouble makers. Sad but true, and I am not capable of fixing it also. > We are trying to build this team. And that team is in charge, is it not? Thats why I ask you for help, as I did in many other places too. My hope is, that you do know those mages, who actually can fix the trouble and that you can point them to that problem and make them fix it. Because you are the team, that officially makes Ubuntu Studio, not only a anonymous single user out there. > We do that by encouraging people in what > they do and the progress they are able to do in the areas they are good > at. This is not a sweatshop. Imagine, you would be a rock band about to record an album, would you not be better off practicing you own complicated songs over and over rather than play some cover songs just for the fun of it? US is your song, your album and your fans will decide, how good your practicing has been. best regards HZN > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 00:37 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > So that is the philosophy you read behind making a Desktop that > depends on 3d-accelleration. Interesting. No, I only said what's the philosophy of Ubuntu, I wasn't talking about my philosophy: "System requirements The system requirements vary among Ubuntu products. For the main Ubuntu desktop product, the official Ubuntu Documentation recommends a 1 GHz Pentium 4 processor with 512 megabytes of RAM and 5 gigabytes of hard drive space, or better.[46] For less powerful computers, there are other Ubuntu distributions such as Lubuntu and Xubuntu." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28operating_system%29#System_requirements You can't make all kinds of audio/MIDI productions with a bloated DE and 512 GiB only. You better use Xubuntu. At the moment I'm running $ cat /etc/issue Arch Linux \r (\l) since I have got needs that don't fit that good to the policy of Ubuntu. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 00:20, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 2:49 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 14:34 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: >>> Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: >>> >> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's >>> for >> all multimedia content creation. > > I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? >>> Real >>> >>> :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" >>> a >>> pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's >>> aim >>> is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a >>> pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose >>> just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. >> >> I always remove pulseaudio and build a kernel-rt. The differences to the >> full preempt kernel with threadirqs isn't important, but removing >> pulseaudio is important. >> >> For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video >> creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? > > Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the > EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods they > do suggest can at this time only be done that way. > > Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client > comes in and says, "I saw this thing on U tube..." I understand you have > had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But at > this time, I would say that a PA->jack bridge is easier to set up and use > than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do not > play well with Jack. (I don't know any) That is my experience too. Once jack is started and the pulse-jack-bridge runs, all audio-trouble is gone. Any sane audio-application supports either Jack or PA automatically. And I cannot see, that the PA-bridge increases the rate of xruns(as of now I have zero of them while experimenting with Guitarix and Qtractor and watching YT-videos as well (*videos *with* audio that is...). It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though > > If any of these people are using their computer for a telephone... all the > phone apps work with Pulse, none (at this time) work with jack. > >> >> From video creation I would remove the word "professional" ;p. > > That was why I used the word "Aim" Our aim is to have Studio be > professional quality in all these areas. What we need most are people who > are involved professionally in video to join our community and make their > own system based on studio work for profession audio so we can import the > changes. I know the tech aspects of video (at least analogue :), but I am > not a video person, my interest is not visual everything looks good to > me unless it is really bad. Not sure, if that works soo good for every good thing can be improved and should be ;-) but regarding video: anyone, who edits a video that shall be used at least semi-commercial, does professional video work. If we talk about Cinema-Movies or professional TV-Shows, we do not talk about normal PC anymore. Even the cheaper TV-shows are still produced on dedicated workstations, let alone Films. Anything beyond that such as video for the web can be done and is done in Linux for years now. Have a look at the Blender-Movies, if you really believe, only vacation-reels can be made in Linux. Ahh yeah: and these workstations usually run Linux too... > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 3:37 pm, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Anyway *my* philosophy is, that a free operating system should offer the > means to tweak it to run on lesser hardware too but there is absolutely > no point in expecting an anachronistic Computer on the desk of a Linux > user. In fact I find that "philosophy" dubious: who says, that anyone, > who can afford a 1000E-Laptop will *not* be a Linux-user? Do you think, > that Linux is the system for the poor? Do you think, that Linux is the > system for the old PC, that cannot run Windows8? Only a few years ago, there was a large number of people who did that, use a machine that wasn't good enough for windows. However as you have pointed out that is no longer true. My desktop computer is 10 years old or so (P4) and still works fine for recording multi-track audio. In fact there are people having more problems with new HW than I do. My piggy bank is in no shaoe to buy new HW, but I have been looking at where I want to go when I can. I will start from the MB and build. I will be looking for a MB and cpu that is good for low latency, something speed and memory do not guarantee. In fact, low latency can slow a computer through put down. For example, I get lower latency by turning hyperthreading off. The desktop is a little slower, but I can get <1ms latency thought jack without xruns with guitarix running. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do > anything qjackctl can do I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything you can do using qjackctl. Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script to start a session? AFAIK I need to connect them using QjackCtl manually. Perhaps it can be done with the alsa equivalent to jack_control, but perhaps it's impossible, AFAIR aj-snapshot can't do it and QjackCtl can't do it automagically, I didn't use them for a long time, often I remove the envy24 driver and use the RME card only. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 22:59, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 21:29 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> 8Gig RAM > > In a throw-away-society nearly every Microsoft and Apple fan has got > such computers. I will not apologize for not having anachronistic hardware. RAM is cheap, Computers are cheap, time is costly. I did not throw away a computer in the last 10 years. And I wont for at least another ten. I always found a way to make use of outdated gear and further I use to buy the best gear I can afford because such gear lasts longer. > Linux and especially Ubuntu have got another philosophy. > Computers with all that's needed for everybody, so much older gear must > be supported too. So that is the philosophy you read behind making a Desktop that depends on 3d-accelleration. Interesting. BTW: you may or may not have noticed, that I mentioned the other PC I got here. It was not the cheapest on shelf also but I have it running for about 6 years now with a new motherboard 4 years ago. The 3 Gig RAM it has I could easily upgrade to 8 too but I am not that motivated for it runs the same setup as my 8G Laptop nearly the same as good... KDE4+Ardour+Guitarix that is. And I can play Minecraft on it with 1480x1280 resolution fullscreen *while* Ardour is started in the back. Anyway *my* philosophy is, that a free operating system should offer the means to tweak it to run on lesser hardware too but there is absolutely no point in expecting an anachronistic Computer on the desk of a Linux user. In fact I find that "philosophy" dubious: who says, that anyone, who can afford a 1000E-Laptop will *not* be a Linux-user? Do you think, that Linux is the system for the poor? Do you think, that Linux is the system for the old PC, that cannot run Windows8? Linux is all this in fact, but is that all? Should a OS for the modern Desktop Computer not be comfortable and maybe even a bit fancy? The difference between free software and MacOSX or Windows should be, that it can be easily configured for many different use-cases and not, that it comes as a rescue system for oldish hardware by default. best regards HZN > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 2:49 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 14:34 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: >> >> > Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: >> >> >>> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's >> for >> >>> all multimedia content creation. >> >> >> >> I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? >> Real >> >> :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" >> a >> pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's >> aim >> is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a >> pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose >> just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. > > I always remove pulseaudio and build a kernel-rt. The differences to the > full preempt kernel with threadirqs isn't important, but removing > pulseaudio is important. > > For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video > creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods they do suggest can at this time only be done that way. Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client comes in and says, "I saw this thing on U tube..." I understand you have had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But at this time, I would say that a PA->jack bridge is easier to set up and use than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do not play well with Jack. (I don't know any) If any of these people are using their computer for a telephone... all the phone apps work with Pulse, none (at this time) work with jack. > > From video creation I would remove the word "professional" ;p. That was why I used the word "Aim" Our aim is to have Studio be professional quality in all these areas. What we need most are people who are involved professionally in video to join our community and make their own system based on studio work for profession audio so we can import the changes. I know the tech aspects of video (at least analogue :), but I am not a video person, my interest is not visual everything looks good to me unless it is really bad. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 14:34 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > > > Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: > > >>> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for > >>> all multimedia content creation. > >> > >> I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real > > :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" a > pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's aim > is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a > pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose > just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. I always remove pulseaudio and build a kernel-rt. The differences to the full preempt kernel with threadirqs isn't important, but removing pulseaudio is important. For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? From video creation I would remove the word "professional" ;p. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 11:42 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Ubuntu Studio Precise and Ubuntu Studio Quantal:
>
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w u1.precise
> [sudo] password for rocketmouse:
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w qrc
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /mnt/u1.precise/usr/bin/qjackctl
> #!/bin/sh
>
> # laucher.sh - Disable PulseAudio before launching a JACKD based program
> # Copyright © 2011 Alessio Treglia
> #
> # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
> # it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
> # the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
> # (at your option) any later version.
>
> PROGRAM="/usr/lib/qjackctl/qjackctl.real"
> PASUSPENDER="`whereis -b pasuspender | cut -d ':' -f 2 | tr -d ' '`"
>
> ( [ -x "${PASUSPENDER}" ] && ${PASUSPENDER} -- ${PROGRAM} ${@} ) ||
> ${PROGRAM} ${@}
>
> exit 0
This script has not been doing anything useful for at least since 12.04,
maybe on or two release before that too. It's broken. And that is why I
suggested to have it removed some time ago. It's now removed in the
upstream qjackctl debian package. Doesn't do any harm, or any good
either for that matter atm.
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Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Ubuntu Studio Precise and Ubuntu Studio Quantal:
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w u1.precise
[sudo] password for rocketmouse:
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w qrc
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /mnt/u1.precise/usr/bin/qjackctl
#!/bin/sh
# laucher.sh - Disable PulseAudio before launching a JACKD based program
# Copyright © 2011 Alessio Treglia
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.
PROGRAM="/usr/lib/qjackctl/qjackctl.real"
PASUSPENDER="`whereis -b pasuspender | cut -d ':' -f 2 | tr -d ' '`"
( [ -x "${PASUSPENDER}" ] && ${PASUSPENDER} -- ${PROGRAM} ${@} ) ||
${PROGRAM} ${@}
exit 0
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /mnt/qrc/usr/bin/qjackctl
#!/bin/sh
# laucher.sh - Disable PulseAudio before launching a JACKD based program
# Copyright © 2011 Alessio Treglia
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.
PROGRAM="/usr/lib/qjackctl/qjackctl.real"
PASUSPENDER="`whereis -b pasuspender | cut -d ':' -f 2 | tr -d ' '`"
( [ -x "${PASUSPENDER}" ] && ${PASUSPENDER} -- ${PROGRAM} ${@} ) ||
${PROGRAM} ${@}
exit 0
And FWIW, "lmount" is a command I created, since I removed gvfs from my
Xfce. One of the PITA that ship with Xfce, the USB HDD killer that makes
those external hard disks spin down and up again and again.
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Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
> Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: >>> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for >>> all multimedia content creation. >> >> I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" a pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's aim is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 11:09 am, Eric Hedekar wrote: > However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this > is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. If it is what is within the "developers" capabilities and interests, why not? remember none of us are paid for any of this. Also think what you would do if any time you started to work on something as a volunteer and people told you don't do that do this that you can't do... you would walk away. We are trying to build this team. We do that by encouraging people in what they do and the progress they are able to do in the areas they are good at. This is not a sweatshop. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 12:25 am, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: >> This is an interesting project. > > To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for > installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, > if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name > it. > > So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point > your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting > too: > > > Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with > priority 10 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path > "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already > registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 > error : A handler is already registered for > /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server > > > To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported > hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing > to be achieved I dare to think. Thankyou for your comment. I can not work on your problem for a number of reasons. The first being that with two computers and 5 different audio interfaces, I have not had that problem. So for me to work on it, you would have to ship your system to me so I can "work on it". And if it turned out that this was an upstream problem, I would have to ship your system (or sound card) upstream to someone who was willing to work on it. Second, I am not a coder. I can do shell script (bash, tcl/tk and some python) and a bit of c, so long as time is not a consideration... in other words I would not even try to look at real time coding or anything that needed special libs. That stuff right now is beyond me. C++ just doesn't make sense to me, I can use some of the GUI stuff by following examples, but I don't really understand what I am doing. Third, this is not a paid position. That is not how community projects work. If this was a commercial project, the first thing that would happen is they would hire someone better than me. Second that person would have specific goals such as you ask. But in the community based project, volunteers look around for what they can do and what interests them and do it. That is what I am doing. I do also do ISO and install testing as well as some (very little right now) recording. So I know that for my systems jack (and pulse) both work. Speaking of community, as you are a part of it and have a special interest in the problem you have, perhaps you should start there. What some of us can do is help you understand where to start, and what steps to take. (welcome to the team) > Ahhh: OK, OK: if you can *promise*, that you can make the above > mentioned failed to start kind of thing disappeare for good, I would > provide a nice US-Menu and some documentation too for running US under > KDE. And half a dozen Wallpapers How much are you willing to pay for this service? For these promises? How much of a wage are you willing to pay so that we can hire some coders to fix your problems? This is a volunteer project, we are happy when people do something productive that moves the project forward. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 21:29 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > 8Gig RAM In a throw-away-society nearly every Microsoft and Apple fan has got such computers. Linux and especially Ubuntu have got another philosophy. Computers with all that's needed for everybody, so much older gear must be supported too. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 10:32 am, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a > chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many > things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or > somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for > pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused > by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. > I'm using it on other Linux installs too. I agree xfce is a sane choice and as far as I know it will continue to be the default. However there have been many users asking how to make Studio work with different DEs. So we are looking at making some DE metas that can be added to Studio so that these users can have the DE they wish. Personally, I expect to continue to use xfce though I may try out LXDE at some point. > Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to > have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who > start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but > to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember > what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at > the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by > qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start > qjackctl.real. Looking at the /usr/bin/ dir on both 12.04 and 13.10 shows only qjackctl and that file is a binary, not a script. So I am not sure that the two processes are unique to ubuntu. However, If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do anything qjackctl can do Setting HW names, rates, latency etc. I still like qjackctl over patchage for connecting ports, but even that can be scripted. > IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to > kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while > this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO > isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper > is strange. I am not sure why this is. As I said the qjackctl file is not a script. and I am not sure that it is unique to ubuntu either, but it is worth checking out. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: > Hi, > > this is my first post to the mailing list. So bare with me for a short > introduction. When I discovered Ubuntu Studio some years ago I only had > access to a very old pc and a quite old laptop. However I was able to > record some songs on it, but mixing was a nightmare since the computers > were too old. Then I upgraded to a Sony Vaio after much research about Vaio > and Ubuntu. However, there were issues between jack, my audio card and how > the Sony Vaio use USB. The result was that I could only record in 16 bit, > 44.1 kHz. Which was worse than I had before on my old computers, 24 bit and > 48 kHz.. So I reverted to Windows for my audio recordings and tried out > every new release of Ubuntu Studio until finally everything just worked in > 12.04. At last, I could actually do all my recordings, mixing and mastering > in US. But by then I was about to have my first child and the time for > recording somehow disappeared... > >> Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is >> encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using >> Linux next year or never > > Which was just what I did. I was persistent to try out every new release > until my equipment finally worked. By now it's outdated, oh well, but > that's another issue. > >> Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for >> music-production? > > This would be interesting. From reading the Ubuntu Forums there seem to be > at least some using it in their professional studios. I do music > recordings, but the degree of "professionalism" could be argued. On the > other hand, with the DIY revolution in the music industry many could be > labelled professional. > >> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for >> all multimedia content creation. > > I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real > time/low latency kernel and all... I see now that site actually states > "multimedia" in several places. But if I wouldn't use US for pro audio, > what should I use instead? Back to Windows or Mac? Further, what defines > "pro audio"? Probably in the music industry ProTools on Mac and so on will > continue to be leading, but for a home studio or in the early stages studio > I think Ubuntu Studio could be a choice to consider. And more with the > right marketing and support. Mind you, being an audio engineer and musician > I'm mostly thinking about the audio parts of the distribution. (Though I > happily use Gimp and Kdenlive). > >> Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop >> environments is not very useful. > > I couldn't agree more. I like when my desktop looks nice but when I'm about > to record, cut a video or handle large graphics my main concern is > performance. Mine is time, thats why I use to spend 1-2 E more when shopping for hardware -- I buy the performance to spare the time tweaking a feeble computer into a powerhouse-workstation. And for my day2day job I want a desktop, that offers all I need in less than a second as I need it. And I want a real-world Linux desktop because I want to keep an understanding for the average end-user. I write for Magazines that are for such users and to be experienced with a custom made tweaked Super-Linux does not help much to walk in the shoes of such normal users. And it works great for me. Whenever I get in trouble it is because of misconfiguration or misbehaviour of software, never because of the "natural" demands of that software. It could be, that for some critical live-recording I would switch to Fluxbox and kill all the background-services I use to have running normally (LAMP, Networkmanager etc) But not for editing or for recording overdubs. > I was quite happy when US changed to Xfce. I think it's the > right way to go. I actually changed my other workstations to Xfce as well > after that. XFCE is perfectly OK but not primarily because it is leaner than UNITY or GNOME3, but because it is more simplistic and it does not need 3d. KDE would have been a good choice also, because it can easily be configured to be even more lean and simplistic than XFCE. And it comes with a better file-manager. But again: XFCE is good. best regards HZN > If you want Unity or other you can always use standard Ubuntu and add the > audio, video and/or graphic tools you need. Make Ubuntu Studio a bit > special for the creative people. > > But: > >> We don't know how long into the future the xfce platform will best suit > our needs (very little warning was given during the >> gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in the first place), > and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be for those >> of us who love a different DE to just switch. > > Which also makes sense. > >> Please remember >> that the team is only a handful of people, and constructive help in most >> cases is actually doing things yourself. >>
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Jimmy Sjölund wrote: > Hi, > > this is my first post to the mailing list. So bare with me for a short > introduction. When I discovered Ubuntu Studio some years ago I only had > access to a very old pc and a quite old laptop. However I was able to > record some songs on it, but mixing was a nightmare since the computers > were too old. Then I upgraded to a Sony Vaio after much research about > Vaio > and Ubuntu. However, there were issues between jack, my audio card and > how > the Sony Vaio use USB. The result was that I could only record in 16 bit, > 44.1 kHz. Which was worse than I had before on my old computers, 24 bit > and > 48 kHz.. So I reverted to Windows for my audio recordings and tried out > every new release of Ubuntu Studio until finally everything just worked > in > 12.04. At last, I could actually do all my recordings, mixing and > mastering > in US. But by then I was about to have my first child and the time for > recording somehow disappeared... > > > Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is > > encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using > > Linux next year or never > > Which was just what I did. I was persistent to try out every new release > until my equipment finally worked. By now it's outdated, oh well, but > that's another issue. > > > Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for > > music-production? > > This would be interesting. From reading the Ubuntu Forums there seem to > be > at least some using it in their professional studios. I do music > recordings, but the degree of "professionalism" could be argued. On the > other hand, with the DIY revolution in the music industry many could be > labelled professional. > > > First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for > > all multimedia content creation. > > I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real > time/low latency kernel and all... I see now that site actually states > "multimedia" in several places. But if I wouldn't use US for pro audio, > what should I use instead? Back to Windows or Mac? Further, what defines > "pro audio"? Probably in the music industry ProTools on Mac and so on > will > continue to be leading, but for a home studio or in the early stages > studio > I think Ubuntu Studio could be a choice to consider. And more with the > right marketing and support. Mind you, being an audio engineer and > musician > I'm mostly thinking about the audio parts of the distribution. (Though I > happily use Gimp and Kdenlive). It's just a fact. Ubuntu Studio is not a only a pro audio orientated distribution. We currently have "audio", "video", "graphics", "publishing" and "photography" as our range of workflows. You may check out this to read more about that http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/ The job for Ubuntu Studio has never been to be a customized distribution for pro audio. Rather, the idea of Ubuntu Studio from the start has been to be an example - a showcase, of what regular Ubuntu can do, with a nice selection of multimedia applications, configurations - and since linux-generic doesn't cut it, we have linux-lowlatency in its place. If what you want is a hardcore pro audio orientated distribution, for example something based on Ubuntu, where some applications have been patched - in other words, recoded, then KXStudio is a much better choice. KXStudio is a custom distro in this way. Ubuntu Studio is not, and doesn't try to be. Ubuntu Studio is a work in progress to make any flavor of Ubuntu, and also Debian, and therefore also Mint, and all the other derivatives, usable for our set of workflows. This means, we push for changes in packaging in Debian, and changes in the code upstream with the application developers. That is how we achieve this. > > > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > > environments is not very useful. > > I couldn't agree more. I like when my desktop looks nice but when I'm > about > to record, cut a video or handle large graphics my main concern is > performance. I was quite happy when US changed to Xfce. I think it's the > right way to go. I actually changed my other workstations to Xfce as well > after that. > If you want Unity or other you can always use standard Ubuntu and add the > audio, video and/or graphic tools you need. Make Ubuntu Studio a bit > special for the creative people. > This is a very subjective problem however. XFCE is kind of in the middle performancewise, I would say. And it's a good base for all of the workflows we have IMO, but I'm happily using Gnome3 myself, and I do low latency live audio processing. It all depends on which kind of machine you have, what you do with it, and what your personal preference is. The DE doesn't have that much of an impact on performance most of the time. This may have more to do with graphic drivers and desktop FX. > But: > > > We don't kno
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Hi, this is my first post to the mailing list. So bare with me for a short introduction. When I discovered Ubuntu Studio some years ago I only had access to a very old pc and a quite old laptop. However I was able to record some songs on it, but mixing was a nightmare since the computers were too old. Then I upgraded to a Sony Vaio after much research about Vaio and Ubuntu. However, there were issues between jack, my audio card and how the Sony Vaio use USB. The result was that I could only record in 16 bit, 44.1 kHz. Which was worse than I had before on my old computers, 24 bit and 48 kHz.. So I reverted to Windows for my audio recordings and tried out every new release of Ubuntu Studio until finally everything just worked in 12.04. At last, I could actually do all my recordings, mixing and mastering in US. But by then I was about to have my first child and the time for recording somehow disappeared... > Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is > encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using > Linux next year or never Which was just what I did. I was persistent to try out every new release until my equipment finally worked. By now it's outdated, oh well, but that's another issue. > Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for > music-production? This would be interesting. From reading the Ubuntu Forums there seem to be at least some using it in their professional studios. I do music recordings, but the degree of "professionalism" could be argued. On the other hand, with the DIY revolution in the music industry many could be labelled professional. > First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for > all multimedia content creation. I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real time/low latency kernel and all... I see now that site actually states "multimedia" in several places. But if I wouldn't use US for pro audio, what should I use instead? Back to Windows or Mac? Further, what defines "pro audio"? Probably in the music industry ProTools on Mac and so on will continue to be leading, but for a home studio or in the early stages studio I think Ubuntu Studio could be a choice to consider. And more with the right marketing and support. Mind you, being an audio engineer and musician I'm mostly thinking about the audio parts of the distribution. (Though I happily use Gimp and Kdenlive). > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > environments is not very useful. I couldn't agree more. I like when my desktop looks nice but when I'm about to record, cut a video or handle large graphics my main concern is performance. I was quite happy when US changed to Xfce. I think it's the right way to go. I actually changed my other workstations to Xfce as well after that. If you want Unity or other you can always use standard Ubuntu and add the audio, video and/or graphic tools you need. Make Ubuntu Studio a bit special for the creative people. But: > We don't know how long into the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little warning was given during the > gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be for those > of us who love a different DE to just switch. Which also makes sense. > Please remember > that the team is only a handful of people, and constructive help in most > cases is actually doing things yourself. > > I'm currently trying to get more people involved, and we have gotten > some responses. Many people come by, but getting really dedicated people > doesn't happen every day, and most people simply don't have the time for > it. Not being able to code I don't know how to contribute even though I really would like to? Other than participating in the mailing list that is. Kind regards Jimmy -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Concerning multiple DE's: What about Cinnamon? Of all DE's I've tried, it is the one that can be configured to look and feel the most like the Ubuntustudio desktop I knew and loved in 2008. When using the "GNOME" theme in Cinnamon with the UbuntuStudio-legacy icons and GTK 3/2 theme I privately maintain, it is absolutely spectacular. Cinnamon is a bit heavy, as it is based on gnome-shell, but seems to be a bit lighter than gnome-shell. MATE is much lighter, enough so to allow a 2GHZ Pentium 4 to just play 720p video, but as it is based on Gnome 2 there are questions about its long-term mantainability. Cinnamon is based on current code and available from a PPA in Ubuntu. I would not be at all surprised to see it offered in Universe at some point. Cinnamon's sound applet normally works with Pulseaudio, doesn't work if Pulse is not running. Volti, however, appears in Cinnamon's tray and works fine. This is a legacy, not a current version of the Ubuntustudio theme, icons, etc that I use, but be aware that they all exist and all work together for me, I've just never played with packaging things as debian packages yet. On 05/22/2013 at 3:39 PM, "Kaj Ailomaa" wrote: > >On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 08:09 PM, Eric Hedekar wrote: >> This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread >derailments I've >> seen >> in a while. Impressive. >> >> As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me >is in >> favour >> of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite >Ubuntu > >Same here. But I did find going with XFCE as the default desktop >was the >best choice at that time nevertheless, because of the uncertainty >around >other DEs. >Also, the custom menu is not a bad addition, even if I'd rather >try push >new categorizations upstream, and do as little customization at the >Ubuntu Studio end, as possible. > >> Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a >modular front >> end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better >overall >> design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was >that >> this >> is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. > There >> have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of >documentation >> in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their >workflow >> than > >Yes. But, the way I see it, the people who want to fix those >things are >already working on that. And it would not help the situation >anyway by >not allowing people who can't help fix those issues to not be >allowed to >do what they want to do. So, there's really no conflict there. >Is anyone against the idea of multiple DE support for Ubuntu >Studio? If >yes, then please explain why? Otherwise, I think it's just good >that we >have work going on in as many fields as possible. > >Right now, we are mainly experimenting with adding new DEs to the >mix. >Something I'm sure a lot of users will appreciate. Also, while >doing >that, we get insight in problems we weren't aware of before. >I don't see any conflict in planning here. I'd rather see more >people >helping out, but I suppose that will always be the situation for >any >volunteer project :). > >> annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the >major >> problems, but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the >amount of >> xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know >how long >> into >> the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very >little >> warning >> was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch >to xfce in >> the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it >will be >> for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. > >We don't actually have that much custom work on the DE right now, >as it >is mostly based on Xubuntu (len is working on that mostly). The >menu is >probably the biggest part of that, and it would be nice to have a >generic solution to that which would work on all DEs, and the >problems >in that are becoming clear now that we are trying out different >DEs. >So, the effort in changing DE, or adding more of them is not that >big. >The more people learn how you develop them, the easier it becomes >on the >whole team as well. Right now, we have 4 different people working >on the >different aspects of these DEs, not counting our art lead, who >will also >be involved in making them look nice. Out of those four, only one >is >even patching Ubuntu code. So, there you have it. > >Most of the problems in jack and PA integration are in coding, so >that >is actually mostly up to the coders to fix, and currently, no one >in the >Ubuntu Studio team is working on developing either pulseaudio or >jack. >But, of course, we have a special position in that we can >communicate to >the coders and help make clear different issues. We can establish >a good >overview of the problems, etc. Doesn't require any coding skills. >Just >re
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 08:09 PM, Eric Hedekar wrote: > This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread derailments I've > seen > in a while. Impressive. > > As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me is in > favour > of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite Ubuntu Same here. But I did find going with XFCE as the default desktop was the best choice at that time nevertheless, because of the uncertainty around other DEs. Also, the custom menu is not a bad addition, even if I'd rather try push new categorizations upstream, and do as little customization at the Ubuntu Studio end, as possible. > Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a modular front > end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better overall > design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that > this > is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. There > have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of documentation > in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their workflow > than Yes. But, the way I see it, the people who want to fix those things are already working on that. And it would not help the situation anyway by not allowing people who can't help fix those issues to not be allowed to do what they want to do. So, there's really no conflict there. Is anyone against the idea of multiple DE support for Ubuntu Studio? If yes, then please explain why? Otherwise, I think it's just good that we have work going on in as many fields as possible. Right now, we are mainly experimenting with adding new DEs to the mix. Something I'm sure a lot of users will appreciate. Also, while doing that, we get insight in problems we weren't aware of before. I don't see any conflict in planning here. I'd rather see more people helping out, but I suppose that will always be the situation for any volunteer project :). > annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the major > problems, but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the amount of > xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know how long > into > the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little > warning > was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in > the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be > for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. We don't actually have that much custom work on the DE right now, as it is mostly based on Xubuntu (len is working on that mostly). The menu is probably the biggest part of that, and it would be nice to have a generic solution to that which would work on all DEs, and the problems in that are becoming clear now that we are trying out different DEs. So, the effort in changing DE, or adding more of them is not that big. The more people learn how you develop them, the easier it becomes on the whole team as well. Right now, we have 4 different people working on the different aspects of these DEs, not counting our art lead, who will also be involved in making them look nice. Out of those four, only one is even patching Ubuntu code. So, there you have it. Most of the problems in jack and PA integration are in coding, so that is actually mostly up to the coders to fix, and currently, no one in the Ubuntu Studio team is working on developing either pulseaudio or jack. But, of course, we have a special position in that we can communicate to the coders and help make clear different issues. We can establish a good overview of the problems, etc. Doesn't require any coding skills. Just requires for someone to put some time into it, and it could be anyone. A good first step is always a bug report, as mentioned. Then, someone has to put time on finding ways to solve the problem. > > -Eric Hedekar > > * > Eric Hedekar > *http://www.erichedekar.com > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 20:09, schrieb Eric Hedekar: > This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread derailments I've seen > in a while. Impressive. > > As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me is in favour > of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite Ubuntu > Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a modular front > end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better overall > design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this > is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. There > have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of documentation > in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their workflow than > annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the major > problems, Exactly. Anyway, the problem is, that (no offence meant) there are more people out there, that can tweak and script desktop-stuff than coders, that are deep enough into the low-level affairs to be able to fix the real annoying issues... So if that can be helpful: I am perfectly satisfied by the US-Desktop! I like it, whenever I test it, I do not find anything that would need repair. Even though I use KDE for my day2day work including working with Ardour3, Guitarix, KDEnlive, testing Stuff like Bitwig and most new music-related software for Linux. I run it on Ubuntu and its KDE and USs XFCE are both just great. Good job, people! > but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the amount of > xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know how long into > the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little warning > was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in > the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be > for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. Most wise. Productive work should be supported well by the DE but it should not depend on a specific desktop. BTW: If I compare stability and performance of Ardour3+many plugins + Guitarix under KDE, XFCE or Fluxbox I fail to see any practical impact of "bloat". Non of the 3 setups is enough to fill more than 2 thirds of my 8Gig RAM, that are a lot to me but not that special nowadays. And on my other machine I run comparable setups with 3Gigs RAM and with not much difference either So performancewise I do not think that a DE needs to be tweaked a lot. Expect maybe regarding dependencies to 3d-capabilities. best regards HZN > > -Eric Hedekar > > * > Eric Hedekar > *http://www.erichedekar.com > > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > >> Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop >> environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a >> chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many >> things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or >> somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for >> pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused >> by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. >> I'm using it on other Linux installs too. >> >> Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to >> have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who >> start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but >> to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember >> what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at >> the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by >> qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start >> qjackctl.real. >> >> IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to >> kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while >> this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO >> isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper >> is strange. >> >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel >> > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread derailments I've seen in a while. Impressive. As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me is in favour of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite Ubuntu Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a modular front end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better overall design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. There have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of documentation in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their workflow than annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the major problems, but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the amount of xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know how long into the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little warning was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. -Eric Hedekar * Eric Hedekar *http://www.erichedekar.com On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a > chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many > things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or > somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for > pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused > by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. > I'm using it on other Linux installs too. > > Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to > have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who > start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but > to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember > what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at > the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by > qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start > qjackctl.real. > > IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to > kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while > this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO > isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper > is strange. > > > -- > Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. I'm using it on other Linux installs too. Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start qjackctl.real. IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper is strange. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 18:38, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: > On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 05:23 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 22.05.2013 16:12, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: >>> On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > This is an interesting project. To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name it. So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting too: Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 error : A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing to be achieved I dare to think. best regards HZN >>> > First of all, thank you for your elaborate and constructive answer. Ths is much more than I get before when discussing this bug(expect from FalkTX, who did his best to help me out) > I haven't seen this bug before, but it does seem like the card is > already being used by something - maybe even another jack? indeed there was jackdbus running when I encountered this but killing it did not help. > If you want > to help solve it, make a bug report, and try to find out the cause of > the problem as well as you can. It's the best chance of someone learning > how to fix it. This is excellent advise and I am *NOT* ironic: find out what happens and fix it is the way, I try to go with this bug for about a year now. In several fora and lists. > > And, let me rant for a little bit.. > > First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. Please: if it is not, then it is nothing but some "skin" for Ubuntu. It is perfectly acceptable, that it is not tweaked to the limits (RT-kernel etc) but I am sure, you will agree, that if Ardour does not work normally on it, what remains to make it any special? > It's for > all multimedia content creation. So simply removing pulseaudio is of > course out of the question This I agree, the charme of US is the compromise between real-world Desktop and Pro, good way to go and perfectly possible methinks. >- but I'm considering making it configurable > so that one can choose not use it, or even not to install it in the > first place. More to come on this in the future. > In any way, the installer will have more options than today. > > There is no strict central planning involved in developing Ubuntu > Studio. Only in areas where it is found necessary. Which means, if you > want to do something for Ubuntu Studio, and it doesn't break anything > for anyone else, you are free to do it. > > Not everyone is adept at fixing issues in pulseaudio and jack code, so > one cannot expect the team to only work for that. I hope I'm making a > point clear about this. This I am aware, the percentage of coders who actually can fix bugs in these delicate beasts is not that high. Thats why I mentioned the PITA-thing: the more people speak about these problems, the more motivation to fix them for those who can. No complaints - no problem - no fix. That simple. best regards HZN > Further, people who don't care about pulseaudio will of course not care > about fixing problems with it at all. > > So far, I've been able to add upstream fixes to jack and pulseaudio by > adding patches to packages. As a new member of the Debian Multimedia > Team, I will also start to work on improving the actual packages that we > import from Debian - as, we don't actually package them ourselves, which > some have been led to believe. > There are some issues that I would like to look at, among other things > how jack is packaged, and also, how realtime privilege is administered. > My goal is to make any Ubuntu flavor just as easy to use for multimedia > (including pro audio) content creation. > > So, making Ubuntu Studio work well on all DEs is not a bad goal. And the > people who find that interesting will be the people who do the work. > Simple as that. This goes for all areas of interests. I find this to be > a good democratic way to go
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 05:23 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 22.05.2013 16:12, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > >> Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > >>> This is an interesting project. > >> > >> To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for > >> installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, > >> if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name > >> it. > >> > >> So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point > >> your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting > >> too: > >> > >> > >> Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with > >> priority 10 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path > >> "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already > >> registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 > >> error : A handler is already registered for > >> /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server > >> > >> > >> To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported > >> hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing > >> to be achieved I dare to think. > >> > >> > >> best regards > >> > >> HZN > >> > > I haven't seen this bug before, but it does seem like the card is already being used by something - maybe even another jack? If you want to help solve it, make a bug report, and try to find out the cause of the problem as well as you can. It's the best chance of someone learning how to fix it. And, let me rant for a little bit.. First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for all multimedia content creation. So simply removing pulseaudio is of course out of the question - but I'm considering making it configurable so that one can choose not use it, or even not to install it in the first place. More to come on this in the future. In any way, the installer will have more options than today. There is no strict central planning involved in developing Ubuntu Studio. Only in areas where it is found necessary. Which means, if you want to do something for Ubuntu Studio, and it doesn't break anything for anyone else, you are free to do it. Not everyone is adept at fixing issues in pulseaudio and jack code, so one cannot expect the team to only work for that. I hope I'm making a point clear about this. Further, people who don't care about pulseaudio will of course not care about fixing problems with it at all. So far, I've been able to add upstream fixes to jack and pulseaudio by adding patches to packages. As a new member of the Debian Multimedia Team, I will also start to work on improving the actual packages that we import from Debian - as, we don't actually package them ourselves, which some have been led to believe. There are some issues that I would like to look at, among other things how jack is packaged, and also, how realtime privilege is administered. My goal is to make any Ubuntu flavor just as easy to use for multimedia (including pro audio) content creation. So, making Ubuntu Studio work well on all DEs is not a bad goal. And the people who find that interesting will be the people who do the work. Simple as that. This goes for all areas of interests. I find this to be a good democratic way to go about developing a community Ubuntu based flavor. It will also shine a light on all the issues that exist on different DEs, and will enable us to come up with generic solutions that can be applied not just to one DE, but to all of them. If you have ideas on how to improve things, you are free to suggest them. All good ideas are welcome. To have a better chance of getting those implemented, uou are also free to help realize them - which is another important point. Please remember that the team is only a handful of people, and constructive help in most cases is actually doing things yourself. I'm currently trying to get more people involved, and we have gotten some responses. Many people come by, but getting really dedicated people doesn't happen every day, and most people simply don't have the time for it. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
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Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 16:12, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: > On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: >>> This is an interesting project. >> >> To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for >> installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, >> if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name >> it. >> >> So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point >> your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting >> too: >> >> >> Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with >> priority 10 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path >> "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already >> registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 >> error : A handler is already registered for >> /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server >> >> >> To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported >> hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing >> to be achieved I dare to think. >> >> >> best regards >> >> HZN >> > > This was a bug in the pulseaudio code. It was fixed a few months ago, > and the fix is now being merged with the packages for 12.04 and 12.10 > (should be out within a couple of weeks) > 13.04 includes pulseaudio 3.0, which already includes the fix. I run 13.04 Pulseaudio is 1:3.0-0ubuntu6 If you read carefully, you may find, that the bug refers to a situation, where jackd spawns the following error: ATTENTION: The playback device "hw:0" is already in use. Please stop the application using it and run JACK again I have a problem, that spawns this: ERROR: cannot register object path "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already registered The only "fix", I could find so far is completely removing pulseaudio (recommended by FalkTX), seems not the most elegant way to handle this to me. What I was trying to say here is, that it would be great, if a distro-variant, that promises ease of use for multimedia-producers, concentrates on making the distro working as expected in the first place. Before discussing easy to go fun stuff like what DE will we use and how shall it look like? I am sure, if the team would concentrate on show-stoppers, the users would be glad to help fixing them and be it by spreading word on such problems to become a PITA for those, who are qualified enough to fix. I am not and most users are not capable to fix low-level bugs as well Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for music-production? Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using Linux next year or never best regards HZN > > Here's the bug report > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1163638 > > I think it's fine to suggest fixing packages that are buggy, but please > remember that fixing these packages is done entirely by volunteers. > Which means, anyone may do it - you, or me. > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > > This is an interesting project. > > To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for > installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, > if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name > it. > > So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point > your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting > too: > > > Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with > priority 10 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path > "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already > registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 > error : A handler is already registered for > /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server > > > To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported > hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing > to be achieved I dare to think. > > > best regards > > HZN > This was a bug in the pulseaudio code. It was fixed a few months ago, and the fix is now being merged with the packages for 12.04 and 12.10 (should be out within a couple of weeks) 13.04 includes pulseaudio 3.0, which already includes the fix. Here's the bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1163638 I think it's fine to suggest fixing packages that are buggy, but please remember that fixing these packages is done entirely by volunteers. Which means, anyone may do it - you, or me. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > This is an interesting project. To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name it. So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting too: Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 error : A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing to be achieved I dare to think. best regards HZN Ahhh: OK, OK: if you can *promise*, that you can make the above mentioned failed to start kind of thing disappeare for good, I would provide a nice US-Menu and some documentation too for running US under KDE. And half a dozen Wallpapers > I have xfce, KDE and LXDE and have looked > at unity. I have seen gnome shell, but need to refresh myself on it. > > Menus first. We have set up a custom menu to organize what threatened to > become a very long set of apps in multimedia, but also to show the user > new to art on linux and Ubuntu where the apps might be used and make > things less confusing. It looks like our content creation menus will work > fine with xfce(where it was developed), lxde and KDE. I think gnome shell > also has a menu, though normal operation might not use it. The idea of > typing categories or parts of app names is the big thing right now. In > fact this method can be used in all the DEs, though not so easy with > xfce... an app finder has to be started first. On the other hand Unity > does not seem to use a menu layout at all. (Not an XDG standard anyway) > > In xfce we have gone beyond just adding workflows by adding some direct > buttons at the top. I do not think we will be able to do so with the other > DEs. To be honest maybe we don't need to do that for xfce either as xfce > progresses. > > So for menus for each DE, I have decided to break the menu into three. I > start with a menu that belongs to the session. This includes menu edits > that are unique to that DE. It starts by merging in the stock menu for the > DE. Then it removes anything that is in the way. Then we merge our > workflows last. > > This lets the DE authors take care of most of the menu. We only take care > of the workflow parts. The glue (the file that does the merging) should > remain pretty static. > > If we need a workflow application, I would suggest that we need it for > Unity first. Because we will not be able to use a menu for that purpose. > > It is going to be interesting in designing DE metas to just keep enough of > each DE applets to keep the look and feel the user is choosing that DE > for. > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
