Re: [ubuntu-uk] Audio Apps
Hi David, On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 09:52:48PM +0100, David Morley wrote: On 19/06/07, Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ian, On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 09:40:49PM +0100, Ian Pascoe wrote: And although not a necessity, should be available on both Ubuntu and Windows platforms Audacity. Cheers, Al. Go to getdeb.org and download Jokoshe0.9 Haha, have you actually _tried_ jokosher? It crashes more often than windows :) No disrespect to the authors (Jono included) but Jokosher is most definately not what the original poster wants or needs right now. Especially given the requirement for something that works. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
With Ubuntu in mind I would be grateful for more information about the possible vulnerability - or not - of the sort of malware (trojan) which is likely to be used in the sort of current, and on a new scale, attack via infected websites as described in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2106855,00.html My initial reaction is of course that linux doe snot install anything without a password, but then I remembered that in my user activities I was able to install a firefox extension without a password (I think), and in principle I can install into my user area with no password generally. So could a trojan be installed easily from an infected website without my knowledge? -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Alan, Quoting alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]: With Ubuntu in mind I would be grateful for more information about the possible vulnerability - or not - of the sort of malware (trojan) which is likely to be used in the sort of current, and on a new scale, attack via infected websites as described in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2106855,00.html My initial reaction is of course that linux doe snot install anything without a password, but then I remembered that in my user activities I was able to install a firefox extension without a password (I think), and in principle I can install into my user area with no password generally. So could a trojan be installed easily from an infected website without my knowledge? The answer is that at some point, there will be a vulnerability in Firefox or any other open-source web browser that allows for this kind of content to download itself onto your computer. This could be a keylogger which then emails logfiles to an irc-chat room somewhere for _your user_, however it would not be able to run as root unless you let it or it was working in conjunction with other exploits that allowed unauthorised access to your system. The good news is that the chances of this is rare for the following reasons: 1) Generally, a completely different set of code instructions would need to be compiled for the program to run under linux 2) As the vast majority of people use Windows, crackers are less likely to write a trojan for Linux-based machines (although this could change in time) 3) The chances of getting the exact two vulnerabilities that the torjan/bug is written to exploit are pretty remote So all in all, viruses[0] and their ilk will come to linux as it becomes more and more popular, however there will alwys be the fact that Linux is inherently more secure than some of the alternatives out there to give you a warm, fuzzy feeling... :o) HTH, M. [0] and it is Viruses, not Virii as I had though for years! -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote: Alan, Quoting alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]: With Ubuntu in mind I would be grateful for more information about the possible vulnerability - or not - of the sort of malware (trojan) which is likely to be used in the sort of current, and on a new scale, attack via infected websites as described in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2106855,00.html My initial reaction is of course that linux doe snot install anything without a password, but then I remembered that in my user activities I was able to install a firefox extension without a password (I think), and in principle I can install into my user area with no password generally. So could a trojan be installed easily from an infected website without my knowledge? The answer is that at some point, there will be a vulnerability in Firefox or any other open-source web browser that allows for this kind of content to download itself onto your computer. This could be a keylogger which then emails logfiles to an irc-chat room somewhere for _your user_, however it would not be able to run as root unless you let it or it was working in conjunction with other exploits that allowed unauthorised access to your system. The good news is that the chances of this is rare for the following reasons: 1) Generally, a completely different set of code instructions would need to be compiled for the program to run under linux 2) As the vast majority of people use Windows, crackers are less likely to write a trojan for Linux-based machines (although this could change in time) 3) The chances of getting the exact two vulnerabilities that the torjan/bug is written to exploit are pretty remote So all in all, viruses[0] and their ilk will come to linux as it becomes more and more popular, however there will alwys be the fact that Linux is inherently more secure than some of the alternatives out there to give you a warm, fuzzy feeling... :o) HTH, M. [0] and it is Viruses, not Virii as I had though for years! Thanks, much appreciated. Would there be a procedure to use browser/s with a different 'user' password, with much lower privileges than the normal user, so that when browsing the 'user-low' being used is not allowed to download anything knowingly or not (without password)? Accepted that the the user-low is still using a browser which may have weaknesses. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks, much appreciated. Would there be a procedure to use browser/s with a different 'user' password, with much lower privileges than the normal user, so that when browsing the 'user-low' being used is not allowed to download anything knowingly or not (without password)? Accepted that the the user-low is still using a browser which may have weaknesses. In theory, you could setup a new user and group that has permissions from /etc/sudoers to only run firefox. You could then setup a shortcut on your desktop to make firefox run using gksudo as this new user, although for the time being I really don't think its something to worry about too much. M. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:48:58 +0100 alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would there be a procedure to use browser/s with a different 'user' password, with much lower privileges than the normal user, so that when browsing the 'user-low' being used is not allowed to download anything knowingly or not (without password)? Accepted that the the user-low is still using a browser which may have weaknesses. Yes. I just found this procedure by playing around so there may be a better one. First you need to have another user to run firefox as, and you need to tell the xserver that local users can connect to it (not just the user who owns it) with: xhost +local: then you can start firefox as another user with: gksudo -u browser firefox where browser should be replaced with the user you created for browsing. You can play with what the new user is allowed to do to limit the damage that taking over firefox can do. The same procedure can be used to run any app with reduced or escalated privileges. Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.ormiret.com Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18. -- Albert Einstein -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:48:58 +0100 alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would there be a procedure to use browser/s with a different 'user' password, with much lower privileges than the normal user, so that when browsing the 'user-low' being used is not allowed to download anything knowingly or not (without password)? Accepted that the the user-low is still using a browser which may have weaknesses. Yes. I just found this procedure by playing around so there may be a better one. First you need to have another user to run firefox as, and you need to tell the xserver that local users can connect to it (not just the user who owns it) with: xhost +local: In theory, you shouldn't need to do even this, the gksudo command should work without needing to open up X to local connections. M. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:24:55 +0100 Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: xhost +local: In theory, you shouldn't need to do even this, the gksudo command should work without needing to open up X to local connections. Doesn't work here: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ xhost -local: non-network local connections being removed from access control list [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ gksudo -u st firefox Xlib: No protocol specified (firefox-bin:26170): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ xhost +local: non-network local connections being added to access control list [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ gksudo -u st firefox [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ firefox started the second time. Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.ormiret.com 1 in 4 vets have treated drunk dogs. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Audio Apps
Alan Pope wrote: Hi Ian, On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 09:40:49PM +0100, Ian Pascoe wrote: And although not a necessity, should be available on both Ubuntu and Windows platforms Audacity. Cheers, Al. +1 for Audacity -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:24:55 +0100 Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: xhost +local: In theory, you shouldn't need to do even this, the gksudo command should work without needing to open up X to local connections. Doesn't work here: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ xhost -local: non-network local connections being removed from access control list [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ gksudo -u st firefox Xlib: No protocol specified (firefox-bin:26170): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ xhost +local: non-network local connections being added to access control list [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ gksudo -u st firefox [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ firefox started the second time. Yeah, it will. There's no need to run xhost -local before running gksudo, this will lcok the system out (as demonstrated effectively above!) M. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
This topic makes me think though. Wouldn't isolating all net enabled applications in this manner pretty much secure linux? Why aren't distributions running like this as standard? Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
On 6/20/07, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This topic makes me think though. Wouldn't isolating all net enabled applications in this manner pretty much secure linux? Why aren't distributions running like this as standard? Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Security vs Usability. If you run your browser under a separate user you wont, for example, be able to save files to your home directory. In principle though yes, it would be nice if each app that faces an untrusted network was in their own separate user space or jail. Kris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:48:11 +0100 Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, it will. There's no need to run xhost -local before running gksudo, this will lcok the system out (as demonstrated effectively above!) I was running -local: to remove the +local: I did earlier. To check and see if the default settings were enough to run it without the xhost +local: I just created a whole new user and tried gksudo -u st firefox and it failed with the same error as I quoted above. Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.ormiret.com Education is what you get from reading the small print. Experience is what you get from not reading it. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting Kris Marsh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 6/20/07, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This topic makes me think though. Wouldn't isolating all net enabled applications in this manner pretty much secure linux? Why aren't distributions running like this as standard? Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Security vs Usability. If you run your browser under a separate user you wont, for example, be able to save files to your home directory. In principle though yes, it would be nice if each app that faces an untrusted network was in their own separate user space or jail. OK then, why not something like this: 1) App is installed into it's own Jail 2) A link is setup from given directories in each app's jail to /downloads which is read only. 3) Any documents downloaded are saved to the dir in the jail, but can be access by any user via /downloads and copied from there to a home dir. 4) a cron job runs once a day and cleans out any files that are still in /downloads for security purposes. Just a thought, M. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:48:11 +0100 Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, it will. There's no need to run xhost -local before running gksudo, this will lcok the system out (as demonstrated effectively above!) I was running -local: to remove the +local: I did earlier. To check and see if the default settings were enough to run it without the xhost +local: I just created a whole new user and tried gksudo -u st firefox and it failed with the same error as I quoted above. Hmmm, then again, I could be wrong... :o) M. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So all in all, viruses[0] and their ilk will come to linux as it becomes more and more popular, however there will alwys be the fact that Linux is inherently more secure than some of the alternatives out there to give you a warm, fuzzy feeling... :o) I'm not so sure of this statement, we must remember that most servers around organisations are GNU/Linux based, but fail to get hosed by viruses. It is a fact in my opnion that Windows is less secure as I have used both systems to compare. General users on Win32 are constantly plagued by viruses and spyware which GNU/Linux does not seem to be affected by. I also read an article not so long ago about a cracker who got caught breaking into the Pentagon systems. Funny thing was he mentioned that his first point of action would be to look for Windows machines as they are generally easier to exploit. This article will explain the theory behind the Windows and Linux systems http://www.theregister.co.uk/security/security_report_windows_vs_linux/ Cheers Lee -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
My initial reaction is of course that linux doe snot install anything without a password, but then I remembered that in my user activities I was able to install a firefox extension without a password (I think), and in principle I can install into my user area with no password generally. Firefox should only install an extension without warning if the site is on it's trusted list, which defaults to just mozilla.org. Obviously this assumes that the attackers haven't hacked into Mozilla's site... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
On 20/06/07, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In principle though yes, it would be nice if each app that faces an untrusted network was in their own separate user space or jail. OK then, why not something like this: 1) App is installed into it's own Jail 2) A link is setup from given directories in each app's jail to /downloads which is read only. 3) Any documents downloaded are saved to the dir in the jail, but can be access by any user via /downloads and copied from there to a home dir. 4) a cron job runs once a day and cleans out any files that are still in /downloads for security purposes. Each application would still need access to system libraries, etc though and so would still be a security risk to some extent. You could look at SELinux, used by Fedora, which AFAIK uses policies to restrict what an application can do and where it can write to. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting Lucy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 20/06/07, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In principle though yes, it would be nice if each app that faces an untrusted network was in their own separate user space or jail. OK then, why not something like this: 1) App is installed into it's own Jail 2) A link is setup from given directories in each app's jail to /downloads which is read only. 3) Any documents downloaded are saved to the dir in the jail, but can be access by any user via /downloads and copied from there to a home dir. 4) a cron job runs once a day and cleans out any files that are still in /downloads for security purposes. Each application would still need access to system libraries, etc though and so would still be a security risk to some extent. You could look at SELinux, used by Fedora, which AFAIK uses policies to restrict what an application can do and where it can write to. Point taken, however I was under the impression that if you run an app in a chroot jail, the libraries are available to it? Again, I could be wrong about this as well! :) M. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
On 20/06/07, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was under the impression that if you run an app in a chroot jail, the libraries are available to it? I believe that you need to provide a copy of any libraries under the chroot jail too (a quick Google seems to back this up). -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Quoting Lucy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 20/06/07, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was under the impression that if you run an app in a chroot jail, the libraries are available to it? I believe that you need to provide a copy of any libraries under the chroot jail too (a quick Google seems to back this up). I stand corrected! ;o) M. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Planet.....
Please could whoever decided to edit the Planet feed from my blog contact me? Looking at what you've done, it was probably the right move, but to unilaterally decide to hack MY feed without telling, let alone asking, seems a bit against what I thought that the community stood for. *When you disagree, consult others.* - The Ubuntu Code of Conduct Mark Notes for reference: - I submitted the link http://markharrison.wordpress.com/feed - This worked, and was fed until some point between Saturday evening and Monday morning. - The current feed being posted is http://markharrison.wordpress.com/tag/open-source/feed As I said, probably the right decision, but I'm not sure who made the unilateral decision to do this. I am unable to find any reference to this editorial policy in the minutes of any recent meeting. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Dell Ubuntu - Again
Time to start petitioning Dell again? http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/20/1215213 Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Planet.....
Hi Mark, On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 15:25 +0100, Mark Harrison wrote: Please could whoever decided to edit the Planet feed from my blog contact me? This is one way of doing it. :) Alternatively (for future reference) visiting:- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam then clicking on website would have led you to:- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org Where you discover that Micheal Wood and I are responsible for the content of the site (including the planet). This way worked though :) I have reverted it back as I assumed that's what you wanted to do. If you would like to change the URL in the future then use the usual method of editing the wiki page so that the non-automated robots. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/planet As for who did and why, I'll leave that for a private (non-list) conversation I think. I would appreciate if this thread ended here, but if people have further comments about the way in which the website is maintained/updated etc please start your own threads/discussions or table it for the next meeting. Cheers, Al. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Planet.....
Alan Pope wrote: I have reverted it back as I assumed that's what you wanted to do. If you would like to change the URL in the future then use the usual method of editing the wiki page so that the non-automated robots. Alan, I'm happy with the change you made :-) I'm just a little surprised that the change was made without talking to me first. I'm happy to consider the matter / thread closed. Regards, Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
Hi all, I'm about to start a job in the real-world (after having been forced to use Windows, I get to sell, support and consult on Linux from the 2nd July!) and one of the things I will need as part of my job is a solid supplier of hardware that I know will run linux and run it well. As dell are refusing to sell Linux-based computers outside of the US (even the redhat/SLED servers seem to only be sold over there), can someone supply me with contact details (a website will do nicely!) of a company that are preferably based in the UK and supply servers/desktops that will run linux or come pre-installed with Linux? Thanks, Matt. -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace Group Co-Ordinator Thanet Linux User Group http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG KEY: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xFEA1BC16 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
Try http://efficientpc.co.uk/ On 6/20/07, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can someone supply me with contact details (a website will do nicely!) of a company that are preferably based in the UK and supply servers/desktops that will run linux or come pre-installed with Linux? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
As dell are refusing to sell Linux-based computers outside of the US (even the redhat/SLED servers seem to only be sold over there), can someone supply me with contact details (a website will do nicely!) of a company that are preferably based in the UK and supply servers/desktops that will run linux or come pre-installed with Linux? Thanks, Matt. There are a couple in the States, but I don't know of any in the UK doing Linux desktop - (perhaps there's a business opportunity in that somewhere!) - I'm sure someone will know somewhere though! What are you off to do then Matt? - You going self-employed like LoudMouthMan or have you found yourself a company to work for. (Round here there are zero OSS software companies :-( ) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dell Ubuntu - Again
Chris Rowson wrote: Time to start petitioning Dell again? http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/20/1215213 extract: these Dell computers are designed for personal use only, as long as you use it for personal use, you can purchase one. So I lied and said I would Next, I tried to buy it on our business credit card. They would have none of that. She told me that I had to buy it through a personal card... Yes, I have just put the same link on the ubuntu-marketing list and Canonical are looking into it. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Scrase, Eddie wrote: My initial reaction is of course that linux doe snot install anything without a password, but then I remembered that in my user activities I was able to install a firefox extension without a password (I think), and in principle I can install into my user area with no password generally. Firefox should only install an extension without warning if the site is on it's trusted list, which defaults to just mozilla.org. Obviously this assumes that the attackers haven't hacked into Mozilla's site... Interesting. Any idea if other apps have a trusted list also, and where such list/s may be located (and firefox's)? -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:08:49 +0100 alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. Any idea if other apps have a trusted list also, and where such list/s may be located (and firefox's)? For firefox's trusted list look in the security tab of the preferences dialogue, there is a checkbox there with Warn me when sites try to install add-ons and an Exceptions button. Clicking the Exceptions button brings up the list of trusted sites. Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.ormiret.com There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
I'm about to start a job in the real-world (after having been forced to use Windows, I get to sell, support and consult on Linux from the 2nd July!) and one of the things I will need as part of my job is a solid supplier of hardware that I know will run linux and run it well. As dell are refusing to sell Linux-based computers outside of the US (even the redhat/SLED servers seem to only be sold over there), can someone supply me with contact details (a website will do nicely!) of a company that are preferably based in the UK and supply servers/desktops that will run linux or come pre-installed with Linux? Best of luck in your new job. There are, of course, suppliers of computers who sell them without pre-installed systems. Perhaps one of those could be interested. I have had excellent service from World of Computers who are in Cambridge. Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
alan c wrote: With Ubuntu in mind I would be grateful for more information about the possible vulnerability - or not - of the sort of malware (trojan) which is likely to be used in the sort of current, and on a new scale, attack via infected websites as described in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2106855,00.html My initial reaction is of course that linux doe snot install anything without a password, but then I remembered that in my user activities I was able to install a firefox extension without a password (I think), and in principle I can install into my user area with no password generally. So could a trojan be installed easily from an infected website without my knowledge? Wasn't Nixory intended to deal with malware affecting Linux web browsers? But there no longer seem to be any updates to Nixory. Anyone know what's happened to this project? -- Diana -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Audio Apps
Mark Harrison wrote: Alan Pope wrote: snip Audacity. +1 for Audacity Yes, I rate Audacity, too. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Booting Up
On Fri, 2007-06-15 at 22:41 +, James Dalley wrote: Do you have an ADSL modem or a router?? I have had a similar problem if the former is the case. James (sorry about HM) James, Sorry for delay in replying, I've been away. Yes, I do have a wireless router, but I've had it for a long time so that (to me) would not explain the reason for the delay. Since the recent correspondence, I've tried booting using an earlier kernel, but X won't run. Keith. -- Keith Bowerman, Prestwood, south Staffordshire, England. Using Ubuntu 7.04 on a Linux only machine. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
- Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As dell are refusing to sell Linux-based computers outside of the US (even the redhat/SLED servers seem to only be sold over there), can someone supply me with contact details (a website will do nicely!) of a company that are preferably based in the UK and supply servers/desktops that will run linux or come pre-installed with Linux? Thanks, Matt. Hello, http://www.encryptec.net do a workstation, and we also do server solutions - full SME computer systems (Thin Client or Fat Client) based around Ubuntu. Redundancy/level of network integration as required. (I must declare a personal interest here though: I work for Encryptec). HTH, Johnathon -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote: Hi all, I'm about to start a job in the real-world (after having been forced to use Windows, I get to sell, support and consult on Linux from the 2nd July!) and one of the things I will need as part of my job is a solid supplier of hardware that I know will run linux and run it well. As dell are refusing to sell Linux-based computers outside of the US (even the redhat/SLED servers seem to only be sold over there), can someone supply me with contact details (a website will do nicely!) of a company that are preferably based in the UK and supply servers/desktops that will run linux or come pre-installed with Linux? Thanks, Matt. Any decent computer dealer should be able to build you a Linux box but for a specialist..http://www.dnuk.com/homepage.php -- Regards Ted Wager G3TPI High Peak UK Using Sidux Linux -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
OK, I'll byte... :oP On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:57:02 +0100, norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: big snip As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to myself. As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet. Is there anyone prepared to answer a few questions? If so, now is your chance. Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why? Because it just works. I have witnessed people with absolutely no idea about computers (including one user who tidied up her hard disk only to find that half her programs didn't work because she'd moved stuff in Program Files) install Ubuntu without any issues, configure a Sagem Speed-Touch 800 USB ADSL Modem and get connected to the internet without even blinking. I am not aware of any other distros that do this. Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try? Well, people who have seen Vista and Office 2007 are asking me about alternatives, people who want continued support for their OS but don't want to upgrade to Vista, people who are fed up with viruses and spam that have approached me about switching, the list goes on and on ad. nauseum. What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet? To produce publicity for a product that I have faith in and that will continue even if Canonical collapses (which I don't think will ahppen any time soon) - Ubuntu works as a product and it has been instrumental in helping others to save money by switching to Ubuntu from windows. How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system were you using before conversion? Immediately before Ubuntu, I was using Gentoo. I've also used Suse, Redhat, Fedora, Slackware and Debian. I still run Gentoo on my servers because I can customise the compilation right down to the flags for the GCC compiler and it runs incredibly fast! At work (up until the end of this week) I have used exclusively windows on my desktop since I started (I've got a new job with a company selling F/OSS solutions that starts next month!!!) What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you to produce a leaflet? What makes you think that I lack these skills? ;o) There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above and I shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for me to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and stick with it if it makes you feel good. And here where I try to remain professional and fail miserably. I have only seen a few posts from you on this list over the last few months, admittedly I haven't searched the archives, however I would be inclined to count you as a less than active member of this list. The few posts that you have made have not been the most positive and I truly believe that this is more to do with you trying to be a realist than trying to apply a negative slant to this project. I hope that I am correct on my assumptions. This leaflet is a chance for the entire community to pull together and say Linux is ready for the desktop and for the home - it now works, it will connect to your active directories and your windows shares, it will talk to your Macs and your TiVO, it is free and it is good, there now really is such a thing as a free lunch. Personally, I will be using this leaflet for SFD 2007 in Thanet, I don't have the skills to produce the artwork or anything else, however I do have the skills to sell ubuntu using the community generated resources that are available to me and I will continue to do so. Kind regards, Matt. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
http://efficientpc.co.uk/ supply Linux pre-installed - I came across their website, I don't know anything at all about them. Dianne Reuby -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] getting epiphany with apt
I do not seem to be having much luck with text web browsers for one reason or another because of how speech works. Somone has apparently used Epiphany with Orca and I tried to download it only it did not show up under the Internet menu in Feisty or any of the menus I tried and doing a search on my computer did not find the filder where apt installed it to. Where do certain applications get put by apt when they do not seem to appear in the menu you expect ie Epiphany not appearing in the Internet menu which would be obvious place to look? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] getting epiphany with apt
On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 20:18 +0100, michaelweaver wrote: I do not seem to be having much luck with text web browsers for one reason or another because of how speech works. Somone has apparently used Epiphany with Orca and I tried to download it only it did not show up under the Internet menu in Feisty or any of the menus I tried and doing a search on my computer did not find the filder where apt installed it to. Where do certain applications get put by apt when they do not seem to appear in the menu you expect ie Epiphany not appearing in the Internet menu which would be obvious place to look? Did you do either sudo aptitude install epiphany or sudo apt-get install epiphany? If so, that's not the right package name. It should be either sudo aptitude install epiphany-browser or sudo apt-get install epiphany-browser (depending on whether you prefer aptitude or apt-get). -- Alec Wright -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Audio Apps
Thanks folks I'll do some reading up on this. E -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of luxxius Sent: 20 June 2007 18:00 To: British Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Audio Apps Mark Harrison wrote: Alan Pope wrote: snip Audacity. +1 for Audacity Yes, I rate Audacity, too. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please
Hi Folks As this has split into two threads, I'm gonna confuse everyone and reply to both in one. Firefox - hasn't there just been a security breach with FF's extensions whereby some of them don't conform to using SSL to update so can be duped to update from a interposing server? Running FF securely - isn't the idea of running FF under a seperate usre basically what the kernal peeps are trying to do with their 'Containers' proposals? I admit that like chris R, it seems like a good idea to pursue for that just in case feeling, but it's a pain if you want to do something and just need to Google it.. E -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of luxxius Sent: 20 June 2007 17:58 To: British Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu (linux) vulnerabilty?? Comment please alan c wrote: With Ubuntu in mind I would be grateful for more information about the possible vulnerability - or not - of the sort of malware (trojan) which is likely to be used in the sort of current, and on a new scale, attack via infected websites as described in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2106855,00.html My initial reaction is of course that linux doe snot install anything without a password, but then I remembered that in my user activities I was able to install a firefox extension without a password (I think), and in principle I can install into my user area with no password generally. So could a trojan be installed easily from an infected website without my knowledge? Wasn't Nixory intended to deal with malware affecting Linux web browsers? But there no longer seem to be any updates to Nixory. Anyone know what's happened to this project? -- Diana -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] fit for the purpose
I believe that the very laudable efforts in promoting the use of Ubuntu need to be tempered with an element of caution. As far as I can tell, the server application is well covered and taken care of and my concern is with the desktop user, of which I am one. Presumably, one of the 'selling' points for Ubuntu is the frequent, availability of safety updates and the 6 monthly supply of an updated system, all for free. But, at some stage there is the need to be aware of the fact that these updates may cause problems as well as benefits. For example, take the case of the upgrade to Ubuntu 7.04. Those users who, like me, could be using Pan Newsreader (supplied with Ubuntu) suddenly found that, with no warning, the software had been radically changed. Look at the situation - a fair bit of time has been spent on changing to Ubuntu 7.04 and you are now ready to carry on with your usual activities using your super-duper, up to date Ubuntu. Let's have a look at the news items - oh dear (or similar language) where have all my Pan files gone and why must I now setup the software all over again. Fortunately, I know where and how to ask questions and the only way to recover the situation was to uninstall the new Pan and reinstall the version of Pan that was supplied with Ubuntu 6.10. Next, I need to scan some drawings to prepare some teaching material. More expletives, my scanner will not work. I discover that it is because the new kernel will no longer support USB scanners of the sort I use which worked perfectly for me ever since the early days of Ubuntu. So now, every time I need to use my scanner I have to reboot my system and select the version of the kernel which was supplied with Ubuntu 6.10. There may be other examples of which I am not aware because I do not use them. There are many more examples which have affected the use of computers in my household directly attributable to earlier upgrades of Ubuntu. I really want to use Ubuntu so I put up with these difficulties and try to get help to solve the problems but, if I had to pay for Ubuntu, I would be there asking for my money back. To those of you who have been using Linux for many years, these problems I have quoted are mere fleabites but, to the non-technical user they are totally unacceptable. I was accused recently of trying to bring some realism into the work on the leaflet and I am very happy to accept that comment. We must not lose sight of the fact that it will be much easier to lose Ubuntu users if things unexpectedly stop working than it will be to encourage new users. How you deal with this I leave to the professionals I am merely putting a point of view. Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] fit for the purpose
norman wrote: I believe that the very laudable efforts in promoting the use of Ubuntu need to be tempered with an element of caution. As far as I can tell, the server application is well covered and taken care of and my concern is with the desktop user, of which I am one. Presumably, one of the 'selling' points for Ubuntu is the frequent, availability of safety updates and the 6 monthly supply of an updated system, all for free. But, at some stage there is the need to be aware of the fact that these updates may cause problems as well as benefits. For example, take the case of the upgrade to Ubuntu 7.04. Those users who, like me, could be using Pan Newsreader (supplied with Ubuntu) suddenly found that, with no warning, the software had been radically changed. Look at the situation - a fair bit of time has been spent on changing to Ubuntu 7.04 and you are now ready to carry on with your usual activities using your super-duper, up to date Ubuntu. Let's have a look at the news items - oh dear (or similar language) where have all my Pan files gone and why must I now setup the software all over again. Fortunately, I know where and how to ask questions and the only way to recover the situation was to uninstall the new Pan and reinstall the version of Pan that was supplied with Ubuntu 6.10. Next, I need to scan some drawings to prepare some teaching material. More expletives, my scanner will not work. I discover that it is because the new kernel will no longer support USB scanners of the sort I use which worked perfectly for me ever since the early days of Ubuntu. So now, every time I need to use my scanner I have to reboot my system and select the version of the kernel which was supplied with Ubuntu 6.10. There may be other examples of which I am not aware because I do not use them. There are many more examples which have affected the use of computers in my household directly attributable to earlier upgrades of Ubuntu. I really want to use Ubuntu so I put up with these difficulties and try to get help to solve the problems but, if I had to pay for Ubuntu, I would be there asking for my money back. To those of you who have been using Linux for many years, these problems I have quoted are mere fleabites but, to the non-technical user they are totally unacceptable. I was accused recently of trying to bring some realism into the work on the leaflet and I am very happy to accept that comment. We must not lose sight of the fact that it will be much easier to lose Ubuntu users if things unexpectedly stop working than it will be to encourage new users. How you deal with this I leave to the professionals I am merely putting a point of view. Norman I concur with your view, and sympathise, counting myself fortunate that so far - as far as I know, I have not had similar problems, though I do have an important machine with a scanner - via usb - rarely used, I will need to check it. When I have time. I am a non expert, handing out leaflets, smiles and CDs and basic advice. I am aware that many ordinary problems would need the group or forum to sort out. I could not. So the users I encourage will have to become independent quickly because they will soon exceed my own knowledge. People I see at computer fairs are already slightly adventurous, and could use a forum. Others can be non technical to say the least, and the situation could become counterproductive. I can install, and support, a small number of less technically minded friends for simple PC use, but I could not support more widely even though I like the idea in principle. (I look forward to the next LTS version). -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Buying from and supporting Linux Hardware Suppliers
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote: Hi all, I'm about to start a job in the real-world (after having been forced to use Windows, I get to sell, support and consult on Linux from the 2nd July!) and one of the things I will need as part of my job is a solid supplier of hardware that I know will run linux and run it well. As dell are refusing to sell Linux-based computers outside of the US (even the redhat/SLED servers seem to only be sold over there), can someone supply me with contact details (a website will do nicely!) of a company that are preferably based in the UK and supply servers/desktops that will run linux or come pre-installed with Linux? Thanks, Matt. The database http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14 shows great promise, I trust that everyone we know who should be therehas put themselves on it? -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Marketing efforts and leaflets
Hi Folks, This message has been posted to Ubuntu-UK Ubuntu Marketing because I'm hoping that there are people subscribed to both lists with thoughts on this subject. With Software Freedom Day around the corner (September 15th) I've been pondering upon the subject of how to reel in the punters. I'm guessing that SFD 2007 will be accompanied by many a cheerful free software advocate out on the streets punting the benefits of using Ubuntu to the average Joe and Jane, and I'm thinking that a concerted marketing effort to underpin this can only help make these advocates more successful. We've talked about leaflets at Ubuntu-UK, and between us have come up with a couple of things that are not half bad. I think that the most important thing that I've learnt so far though is that there are a lot things we take for granted that Joe and Jane mightn't think about. Why is this important? I think we need to understand Joe and Jane a little better to be able to flog Ubuntu to them. Take a look at the 'selling interview' for instance: http://perso.orange.fr/pgreenfinch/mkting/mkting14 The most important steps which underpin the entire process are understanding the customer, asking questions, clarifying, I think that the author mentions elsewhere 'falling in love with the customer a little bit!'. Sometimes it feels to me a little bit like we're jumping straight in a the deep end, without doing this preparation work. If we can develop a good profile of Joe and Jane and deliver marketing aimed entirely at them, and not what we think they want (or what we'd like to deliver ourselves) I reckon we might be able to sell Ubuntu a little better. Comments, opinions or ways to take this forward anyone? Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] fit for the purpose
alan c wrote: norman wrote: I believe that the very laudable efforts in promoting the use of Ubuntu need to be tempered with an element of caution. As far as I can tell, the server application is well covered and taken care of and my concern is with the desktop user, of which I am one. [...] Norman I concur with your view, and sympathise, counting myself fortunate that so far - as far as I know, I have not had similar problems, though I do have an important machine with a scanner - via usb - rarely used, I will need to check it. When I have time. [...] Hello, Norman and Alan. Have you ever upgraded Windows? Or MacOS? Believe me, Debian/Ubuntu is much, much easier to upgrade! However, I use 6.06.1 LTS for all the reasons you mention :-) Best wishes, Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rowett Research Institute, |http://www.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, | phone:+44 (0)1224 712751 Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK.| fax:+44 (0)1224 716687 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] fit for the purpose
Hi Tony, On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 22:41 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: Have you ever upgraded Windows? Or MacOS? Believe me, Debian/Ubuntu is much, much easier to upgrade! A very good point. I think often we take for granted some of the features of Linux (specifically Ubuntu) that are just light years ahead of Windows. * Software installs. A straightforward way to install, remove and upgrade individual packages and their dependants. Something Windows doesn't have and never has. * Release upgrades. As Tony points out, Windows upgrades are pretty painful. A significant number of applications break after an upgrade, at least comparable with the issues reported by Norman. Note it's just not possible to boot an XP kernel on Vista to resolve a scanner not working issue as he had. Worth noting that as a result of it upgrading well, and because Ubuntu runs on lower spec hardware, people are _more_ likely to upgrade than under Windows where the hardware requirements go up tremendously with each release. The vast majority of Windows users never upgrade their operating systems so when they move to Ubuntu and complain when something breaks in an upgrade, they often don't have a comparison under Windows because they've never done it. * Fast installs. Installing Ubuntu is way faster than Windows. Even installing from a recovery CD is painfully slow. Some suggest as a counter argument that nobody ever installs windows (due to it being pre-installed) which is of course incorrect. Many Windows users reinstall their desktops repeatedly during the life of one computer, often due to malware infestations, viruses and general system slowness. * Upgrades of _all_ software in one go. I recently _had_ to install XP (to apply a BIOS update) and once the product recovery CD had done it's work (which incidently took around 4 times longer than an Ubuntu install on the same host - and installed one 5th of the amount of data/apps) there were applications shouting at me to update them. With Ubuntu you just have one little icon to worry about - the update icon on the task bar. * Flexible installs. With Ubuntu you can take a backup of your /home, and a list of packages you have installed and can reinstall (or install a new version) and get back to a running system very easily. I did this recently. I plugged a USB hard disk into my ubuntu laptop, booted to recovery mode and copied the entire /home onto the drive. I wiped the internal disk, installed XP (as detailed above) and then copied my /home back from the USB drive. All my data, settings and preferences were retained. * Moving disks to another machine. I recently had a motherboard failure in my wifes old computer. I just yanked the IDE hard disk out and put it in another computer. I only had to reconfigure the (different make and model) of video card - _no_ reboot required - and it Just Worked. And all of this is without even mentioning the fact that it's free and open! How marvellous is that!? Let's try to remember some of these fantastic innovations when we draw comparisons with other operating systems. Cheers, Al. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Marketing efforts and leaflets
Hey chris I agree - a lot of what i read on the interweb about trying to get people to switch are people who patronise the user a lot. Things like flashy interfaces etc is why they stick with windows. This needs to change regards On 20/06/07, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Folks, This message has been posted to Ubuntu-UK Ubuntu Marketing because I'm hoping that there are people subscribed to both lists with thoughts on this subject. With Software Freedom Day around the corner (September 15th) I've been pondering upon the subject of how to reel in the punters. I'm guessing that SFD 2007 will be accompanied by many a cheerful free software advocate out on the streets punting the benefits of using Ubuntu to the average Joe and Jane, and I'm thinking that a concerted marketing effort to underpin this can only help make these advocates more successful. We've talked about leaflets at Ubuntu-UK, and between us have come up with a couple of things that are not half bad. I think that the most important thing that I've learnt so far though is that there are a lot things we take for granted that Joe and Jane mightn't think about. Why is this important? I think we need to understand Joe and Jane a little better to be able to flog Ubuntu to them. Take a look at the 'selling interview' for instance: http://perso.orange.fr/pgreenfinch/mkting/mkting14 The most important steps which underpin the entire process are understanding the customer, asking questions, clarifying, I think that the author mentions elsewhere 'falling in love with the customer a little bit!'. Sometimes it feels to me a little bit like we're jumping straight in a the deep end, without doing this preparation work. If we can develop a good profile of Joe and Jane and deliver marketing aimed entirely at them, and not what we think they want (or what we'd like to deliver ourselves) I reckon we might be able to sell Ubuntu a little better. Comments, opinions or ways to take this forward anyone? Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Matthew G Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44(0)7739 785 249 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
Hi all I am currently out of the country until next week so I wont be able to contribute a lot during this period regards On 19/06/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'll byte... :oP On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:57:02 +0100, norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: big snip As no one seems inclined to react to my comments I will respond to myself. As one of the longest users of Ubuntu in this group I am curious to know why there is all this activity in wanting to produce a leaflet. Is there anyone prepared to answer a few questions? If so, now is your chance. Is there a real desire to promote the use of Ubuntu and, if so, why? Because it just works. I have witnessed people with absolutely no idea about computers (including one user who tidied up her hard disk only to find that half her programs didn't work because she'd moved stuff in Program Files) install Ubuntu without any issues, configure a Sagem Speed-Touch 800 USB ADSL Modem and get connected to the internet without even blinking. I am not aware of any other distros that do this. Who do you expect to be interested enough to even give Ubuntu a try? Well, people who have seen Vista and Office 2007 are asking me about alternatives, people who want continued support for their OS but don't want to upgrade to Vista, people who are fed up with viruses and spam that have approached me about switching, the list goes on and on ad. nauseum. What is your personal motive in all this activity to produce a leaflet? To produce publicity for a product that I have faith in and that will continue even if Canonical collapses (which I don't think will ahppen any time soon) - Ubuntu works as a product and it has been instrumental in helping others to save money by switching to Ubuntu from windows. How, why and when did you start using Ubuntu and which operating system were you using before conversion? Immediately before Ubuntu, I was using Gentoo. I've also used Suse, Redhat, Fedora, Slackware and Debian. I still run Gentoo on my servers because I can customise the compilation right down to the flags for the GCC compiler and it runs incredibly fast! At work (up until the end of this week) I have used exclusively windows on my desktop since I started (I've got a new job with a company selling F/OSS solutions that starts next month!!!) What makes you believe that your knowledge and experience qualifies you to produce a leaflet? What makes you think that I lack these skills? ;o) There is no compulsion, of course, for you to respond to the above and I shall not feel hurt if you don't. Unless there is a good reason for me to say more I am now finished with the subject. The best of luck and stick with it if it makes you feel good. And here where I try to remain professional and fail miserably. I have only seen a few posts from you on this list over the last few months, admittedly I haven't searched the archives, however I would be inclined to count you as a less than active member of this list. The few posts that you have made have not been the most positive and I truly believe that this is more to do with you trying to be a realist than trying to apply a negative slant to this project. I hope that I am correct on my assumptions. This leaflet is a chance for the entire community to pull together and say Linux is ready for the desktop and for the home - it now works, it will connect to your active directories and your windows shares, it will talk to your Macs and your TiVO, it is free and it is good, there now really is such a thing as a free lunch. Personally, I will be using this leaflet for SFD 2007 in Thanet, I don't have the skills to produce the artwork or anything else, however I do have the skills to sell ubuntu using the community generated resources that are available to me and I will continue to do so. Kind regards, Matt. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Matthew G Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44(0)7739 785 249 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
