date:20130822

On 21 August 2013 22:02, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote:

 Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience.  I haven't
 looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit
 of this mailing list.  Please do stay around :)

 On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:

 SNIP

 Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be
 managers
 in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
 proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.

 Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks?

 It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems that
 when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have the
 least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my enthusiasm
 for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.

I still don't understand what this is about.  I can't see anywhere on
this thread where another poster was criticised.  Can someone please
point me to the relevant post?  Perhaps my copy went into spam or
something.

Colin

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

On 21 August 2013 22:12, scoundrel50a scoundrel...@gmail.com wrote:
 ..
 I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable
 then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself.
 Which is why I answered the way I did.

The only post I can see from Peter Maddison was a reply to Pete
Smout's post not yours, and anyway it was the content of the link he
was commenting on not anyone's post here.  Note also that I commented
on his post, pointing out that it did not make sense, but it was still
not an attack on you.  I don't see where I shot you down.

 I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely
 safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and
 its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of
 us are treated like I have been now.

I agree entirely that it is possible to get Malware on a Linux PC, so
one should always be careful where one is installing software from.
As I said before I don't see where you have been treated like an
idiot, and if you got the impression that I was treating you like an
idiot then I apologise sincerely.

Colin

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote:
 On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote:
 On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote:

 Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts
 something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and
 not
 everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for
 years
 its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
 group, I
 dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when
 people see this.



 On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a
 number
 of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not
 so long
 back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
 harsh manner
 by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
 evidence and
 proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.

 I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an
 expert, not
 everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you
 respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption
 and as
 many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making
 them
 feel small, they will only leave.
 I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking
 exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he
 said.  Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried
 you?

 Colin

 I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was
 acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot
 me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did.

 I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt
 completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like
 they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable
 about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now.

 An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are
 shouted down in, by the same people every time.




If there is a threat out there,  no matter small people should be a)
aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems,  if everyone does
small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider
community benefits,

Look at how many bot nets are out there,  there seems to be several
million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and
awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, 

some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so
unless you understand what it is asking you to do

#


Do not install unsigned packages
# Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository
# Keep your system up to date at all times
# Keep all browser plugins up to date
# If your distribution has SELinux, use it
# Do not let others install software on your machines
# Use solid passwords
# If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why

Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the
above issues,  the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux
website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful
and what I should use it,  it says don't install things you don't
understand,  well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of
understand does this mean I should or should not install it,  (look at
that from a complete new user viewpoint)



Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really
does baffle the novice,  lets take a step back and address each of the
above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more
secure through education and advice.

I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can
help me explain each of the above points please, this information will
then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice
help others.
Hope this helps

In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to
include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, 

Paul


-- 




--
http://www.zleap.net

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911


Software freedom day event - 21st September 2013  - http://exeter.lug.org.uk/

I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and 
expect any school or establishment I am involved with to share this commitment. 



-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread pete smout

On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote:
 On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote:
 On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote:
 On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote:

 Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts
 something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and
 not
 everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for
 years
 its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
 group, I
 dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when
 people see this.



 On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a
 number
 of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not
 so long
 back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
 harsh manner
 by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
 evidence and
 proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.

 I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an
 expert, not
 everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you
 respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption
 and as
 many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making
 them
 feel small, they will only leave.
 I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking
 exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he
 said.  Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried
 you?

 Colin

 I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was
 acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot
 me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did.

 I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt
 completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like
 they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable
 about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now.

 An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are
 shouted down in, by the same people every time.




 If there is a threat out there,  no matter small people should be a)
 aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems,  if everyone does
 small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider
 community benefits,
 
 Look at how many bot nets are out there,  there seems to be several
 million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and
 awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, 
 
 some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so
 unless you understand what it is asking you to do
 
 #
 
 
 Do not install unsigned packages
 # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository
 # Keep your system up to date at all times
 # Keep all browser plugins up to date
 # If your distribution has SELinux, use it
 # Do not let others install software on your machines
 # Use solid passwords
 # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why
 
 Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the
 above issues,  the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux
 website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful
 and what I should use it,  it says don't install things you don't
 understand,  well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of
 understand does this mean I should or should not install it,  (look at
 that from a complete new user viewpoint)
 
 
 
 Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really
 does baffle the novice,  lets take a step back and address each of the
 above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more
 secure through education and advice.
 
 I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can
 help me explain each of the above points please, this information will
 then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice
 help others.
 Hope this helps
 
 In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to
 include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, 
 
 Paul
 
 
Hi,
Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not
certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?!
Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good!
What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it?
What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as
the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain
webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to
continue using it?)

I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world
SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;)

Good Job I'm not working today and I have the time to research, if
anyone has some good links on the subject I (if not anyone else) would
be interested

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread pete smout

On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote:
 On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote:
 On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote:
 On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote:
 On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote:

 Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts
 something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and
 not
 everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for
 years
 its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
 group, I
 dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when
 people see this.



 On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a
 number
 of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not
 so long
 back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
 harsh manner
 by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
 evidence and
 proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.

 I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an
 expert, not
 everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you
 respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption
 and as
 many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making
 them
 feel small, they will only leave.
 I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking
 exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he
 said.  Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried
 you?

 Colin

 I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was
 acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot
 me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did.

 I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt
 completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like
 they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable
 about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now.

 An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are
 shouted down in, by the same people every time.




 If there is a threat out there,  no matter small people should be a)
 aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems,  if everyone does
 small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider
 community benefits,

 Look at how many bot nets are out there,  there seems to be several
 million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and
 awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, 

 some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so
 unless you understand what it is asking you to do

 #


 Do not install unsigned packages
 # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository
 # Keep your system up to date at all times
 # Keep all browser plugins up to date
 # If your distribution has SELinux, use it
 # Do not let others install software on your machines
 # Use solid passwords
 # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why

 Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the
 above issues,  the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux
 website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful
 and what I should use it,  it says don't install things you don't
 understand,  well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of
 understand does this mean I should or should not install it,  (look at
 that from a complete new user viewpoint)



 Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really
 does baffle the novice,  lets take a step back and address each of the
 above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more
 secure through education and advice.

 I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can
 help me explain each of the above points please, this information will
 then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice
 help others.
 Hope this helps

 In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to
 include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, 

 Paul


 Hi,
 Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not
 certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?!
 Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good!
 What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it?
 What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as
 the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain
 webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to
 continue using it?)
 
 I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world
 SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;)
 
 Good Job I'm not working today and I have the time to research, if
 anyone has some good links on the subject I

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread J Fernyhough

On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote:
 Right a quick google of 'SELinux ubuntu 13.04' a link top of page to an
 Amazon page trying to sell me a Ubunutu DVD for £6.49 (even I am not
 that stupid) the SELinux wiki page is helpful if long-winded, and I have
 found a folder /selinux which is completely empty on my system? does
 that mean it is there?
 Or is it there and never been configured for use?
 And on a single user system (as opposed to a server) do I need it at all?

 I apologize in advance if I (1) should start a new thread (will happily
 do so), or (2) am asking stupid questions, but this thread has got me
 thinking..

 Pete Smout


Ubuntu uses AppArmor rather than SELInux (which is used by e.g.
Fedora, CentOS and SUSE). This is probably why you haven't found a lot
about it wrt Ubuntu!

J

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread Kris Douglas

On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote:
 On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote:
 On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote:
 On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote:
 On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote:
 On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote:

 Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts
 something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and
 not
 everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for
 years
 its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
 group, I
 dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when
 people see this.



 On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a
 number
 of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not
 so long
 back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
 harsh manner
 by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
 evidence and
 proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.

 I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an
 expert, not
 everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you
 respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption
 and as
 many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making
 them
 feel small, they will only leave.
 I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking
 exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he
 said.  Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried
 you?

 Colin

 I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was
 acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot
 me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did.

 I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt
 completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like
 they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable
 about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now.

 An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are
 shouted down in, by the same people every time.




 If there is a threat out there,  no matter small people should be a)
 aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems,  if everyone does
 small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider
 community benefits,

 Look at how many bot nets are out there,  there seems to be several
 million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and
 awaiting some instruction to do something nasty,

 some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so
 unless you understand what it is asking you to do

 #


 Do not install unsigned packages
 # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository
 # Keep your system up to date at all times
 # Keep all browser plugins up to date
 # If your distribution has SELinux, use it
 # Do not let others install software on your machines
 # Use solid passwords
 # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why

 Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the
 above issues,  the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux
 website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful
 and what I should use it,  it says don't install things you don't
 understand,  well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of
 understand does this mean I should or should not install it,  (look at
 that from a complete new user viewpoint)



 Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really
 does baffle the novice,  lets take a step back and address each of the
 above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more
 secure through education and advice.

 I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can
 help me explain each of the above points please, this information will
 then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice
 help others.
 Hope this helps

 In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to
 include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation,

 Paul


 Hi,
 Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not
 certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?!
 Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good!
 What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it?
 What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as
 the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain
 webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to
 continue using it?)

 I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world
 SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;)

 Good Job I'm not working today and I have the time to

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

On 21/08/13 22:02, Gareth France wrote:
 On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote:
 Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience.  I haven't
 looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit
 of this mailing list.  Please do stay around :)

 On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:
 SNIP
 Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be
 managers
 in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
 proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.
 Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks?

 It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
 that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals
 have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that
 my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.

I second this,  I have come across the get lost and use google brigade
even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences,  with
something.  its really off putting,.   I have however found this forum
friendly and helpful so  in this context it is OTHER forums where I have
had problems.  but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community
that looks bad.

Paul

-- 




--
http://www.zleap.net

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911


Software freedom day event - 21st September 2013  - http://exeter.lug.org.uk/

I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and 
expect any school or establishment I am involved with to share this commitment. 



-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread pete smout

On 22/08/13 12:33, Kris Douglas wrote:
 On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote:
 On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote:
 On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote:
 On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote:
 On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote:
 On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote:

 Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts
 something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and
 not
 everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for
 years
 its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
 group, I
 dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when
 people see this.



 On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a
 number
 of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not
 so long
 back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
 harsh manner
 by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
 evidence and
 proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.

 I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an
 expert, not
 everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you
 respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption
 and as
 many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making
 them
 feel small, they will only leave.
 I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking
 exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he
 said.  Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried
 you?

 Colin

 I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was
 acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot
 me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did.

 I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt
 completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like
 they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable
 about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now.

 An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are
 shouted down in, by the same people every time.




 If there is a threat out there,  no matter small people should be a)
 aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems,  if everyone does
 small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider
 community benefits,

 Look at how many bot nets are out there,  there seems to be several
 million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and
 awaiting some instruction to do something nasty,

 some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so
 unless you understand what it is asking you to do

 #


 Do not install unsigned packages
 # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository
 # Keep your system up to date at all times
 # Keep all browser plugins up to date
 # If your distribution has SELinux, use it
 # Do not let others install software on your machines
 # Use solid passwords
 # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why

 Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the
 above issues,  the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux
 website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful
 and what I should use it,  it says don't install things you don't
 understand,  well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of
 understand does this mean I should or should not install it,  (look at
 that from a complete new user viewpoint)



 Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really
 does baffle the novice,  lets take a step back and address each of the
 above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more
 secure through education and advice.

 I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can
 help me explain each of the above points please, this information will
 then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice
 help others.
 Hope this helps

 In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to
 include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation,

 Paul


 Hi,
 Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not
 certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?!
 Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good!
 What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it?
 What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as
 the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain
 webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to
 continue using it?)

 I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world
 SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;)

 Good Job I'm not

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Real Ale Train is next month!

2013-08-22 Thread Dave Walker

On 19 August 2013 12:19, Alan Lord (News) alansli...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have one ticket that I will no longer be able to use - having to jet off
 to Italy for a vtiger CRM conference instead - any one want to buy it off me
 they are welcome.

 It cost £14 inc. booking fee.

 Cheers

 Al

If this is still available, I will offer £13.99.. I couldn't possibly
extend to the full price.

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Kind Regards,

Dave Walker dave.wal...@canonical.com
Engineering Manager,
Ubuntu Server

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[ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

Dear all,

I am wondering if someone can help me with a major problem that i have been
having in Ubuntu, pertaining to a notoriously hard to diagnose issue of
random freezing.

The problem started in 13.04, which would freeze randomly, from the day i
installed it. I persisted with the issue for a while, hoping that it would
work itself out with subsequent kernel updates and as 13.04 was patched.
Unfortunately 2 months in i was still losing work to random freezes.

I thus found myself with a free weekend and so decided to downgrade to
12.04 which had worked for me previously. Frustratingly however, i found
that the problem now manifest there as well (there had been no problem in
12.10 previously).

A system freeze appears to happen at random, although it is possibly
related to having the machine on battery power. When it happens I can't
input anything, and if there is a song playing it skips. Only way out is a
hard reboot.

I remain on 12.04, 64 bit. I have updated my bios, and run memtest86. The
latter found no errors and the former has not improved things. The machine
is a Lenovo x131e, Intel, with integrated graphics and broadcom wireless.

I have tried filling a bug
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1174275, but got stuck
as i could not properly test the upstream kernel as wireless would not
work.

The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and that
the freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on battery power (i
am still testing this) means that i thought it might be a problem with
powersave on the wireless card. There were a number of posts about this but
the general solution seemed to be to turn off the powersave option on the
card (http://robertbeal.com/1248/ubuntu-10101104-freezing-battery-power). I
did this to no avail as i still got a freeze when the machine was on
battery power.

I have also tried posting this problem on the forums (
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2166195), providing a list or
kernel errors that i get after a freeze. Understanding this list is beyond
my ability, so i don't know where to start. I haven't had much luck with
anyone there.

At this point i am not sure what else to do. I don't know how to diagnose
the problem any further as many forums simply say that analysing a system
freeze is difficult. This is a bit of a massive bug for me as random system
freezes really interrupt with my daily work.

I'd love to get this resolved, or at least work out what the problem is so
that i can get it reported. Ideally i'd have 13.04 working, but will settle
for 12.04.

If anyone can give me any advice on what steps to take to work out what the
problem is, i would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

James.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread Tony Arnold

On 22/08/13 13:06, pete smout wrote:
 On 22/08/13 12:33, Kris Douglas wrote:
 On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote:
 On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote:
 On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote:
 On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote:
 On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote:
 On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote:

 Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts
 something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and
 not
 everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for
 years
 its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
 group, I
 dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when
 people see this.



 On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a
 number
 of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not
 so long
 back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
 harsh manner
 by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
 evidence and
 proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.

 I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an
 expert, not
 everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you
 respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption
 and as
 many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making
 them
 feel small, they will only leave.
 I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking
 exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he
 said.  Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried
 you?

 Colin

 I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was
 acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot
 me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did.

 I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt
 completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like
 they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable
 about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now.

 An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are
 shouted down in, by the same people every time.




 If there is a threat out there,  no matter small people should be a)
 aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems,  if everyone does
 small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider
 community benefits,

 Look at how many bot nets are out there,  there seems to be several
 million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and
 awaiting some instruction to do something nasty,

 some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so
 unless you understand what it is asking you to do

 #


 Do not install unsigned packages
 # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository
 # Keep your system up to date at all times
 # Keep all browser plugins up to date
 # If your distribution has SELinux, use it
 # Do not let others install software on your machines
 # Use solid passwords
 # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why

 Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the
 above issues,  the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux
 website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful
 and what I should use it,  it says don't install things you don't
 understand,  well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of
 understand does this mean I should or should not install it,  (look at
 that from a complete new user viewpoint)



 Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really
 does baffle the novice,  lets take a step back and address each of the
 above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more
 secure through education and advice.

 I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can
 help me explain each of the above points please, this information will
 then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice
 help others.
 Hope this helps

 In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to
 include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation,

 Paul


 Hi,
 Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not
 certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?!
 Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good!
 What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it?
 What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as
 the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain
 webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to
 continue using it?)

 I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world
 SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

2013-08-22 Thread Martin Dixon

Hi James.

For what it is worth I had a similar problem with 12.04 and 12.10 and
found the only solution was to reinstall 12.10 and refrain from doing
any updates. 
13.04 works OK with all updates loaded, but I used both with a Ubuntu
One link as security until I was sure.

Regards, Martin Dixon

On 22/08/13 13:21, James Morrissey wrote:
 Dear all,

 I am wondering if someone can help me with a major problem that i have
 been having in Ubuntu, pertaining to a notoriously hard to diagnose
 issue of random freezing.

 The problem started in 13.04, which would freeze randomly, from the
 day i installed it. I persisted with the issue for a while, hoping
 that it would work itself out with subsequent kernel updates and as
 13.04 was patched. Unfortunately 2 months in i was still losing work
 to random freezes.

 I thus found myself with a free weekend and so decided to downgrade to
 12.04 which had worked for me previously. Frustratingly however, i
 found that the problem now manifest there as well (there had been no
 problem in 12.10 previously).

 A system freeze appears to happen at random, although it is possibly
 related to having the machine on battery power. When it happens I
 can't input anything, and if there is a song playing it skips. Only
 way out is a hard reboot.

 I remain on 12.04, 64 bit. I have updated my bios, and run memtest86.
 The latter found no errors and the former has not improved things. The
 machine is a Lenovo x131e, Intel, with integrated graphics and
 broadcom wireless.

 I have tried filling a bug
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1174275, but got
 stuck as i could not properly test the upstream kernel as wireless
 would not work.

 The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and
 that the freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on
 battery power (i am still testing this) means that i thought it might
 be a problem with powersave on the wireless card. There were a number
 of posts about this but the general solution seemed to be to turn off
 the powersave option on the card
 (http://robertbeal.com/1248/ubuntu-10101104-freezing-battery-power). I
 did this to no avail as i still got a freeze when the machine was on
 battery power.

 I have also tried posting this problem on the forums
 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2166195), providing a list
 or kernel errors that i get after a freeze. Understanding this list is
 beyond my ability, so i don't know where to start. I haven't had much
 luck with anyone there.

 At this point i am not sure what else to do. I don't know how to
 diagnose the problem any further as many forums simply say that
 analysing a system freeze is difficult. This is a bit of a massive bug
 for me as random system freezes really interrupt with my daily work.

 I'd love to get this resolved, or at least work out what the problem
 is so that i can get it reported. Ideally i'd have 13.04 working, but
 will settle for 12.04.

 If anyone can give me any advice on what steps to take to work out
 what the problem is, i would really appreciate it.

 Thanks,

 James. 





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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread Phill Whiteside

SEL takes a bit of getting your head round (well, I found it the hardest
part of the Red Hat Engineer course I did).

The notes from Red Hat are very good and I include two links for those who
wish top learn more.

Regards,

Phill.
1.
https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Security-Enhanced_Linux/index.html
2. http://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/selinux/


On 22 August 2013 13:30, Tony Arnold tony.arn...@manchester.ac.uk wrote:

 On 22/08/13 13:06, pete smout wrote:
  On 22/08/13 12:33, Kris Douglas wrote:
  On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote:
  On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote:
  On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote:
  On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote:
  On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote:
  On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote:
 
  Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody
 posts
  something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu,
 and
  not
  everybody understands the risks involved especially considering
 for
  years
  its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
  group, I
  dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light
 when
  people see this.
 
 
 
  On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are
 a
  number
  of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions.
 Not
  so long
  back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
  harsh manner
  by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
  evidence and
  proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.
 
  I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an
  expert, not
  everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful
 how you
  respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass
 adoption
  and as
  many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them,
 making
  them
  feel small, they will only leave.
  I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking
  exception to as the post he complained about was not about
 anything he
  said.  Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that
 worried
  you?
 
  Colin
 
  I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was
  acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you
 shot
  me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did.
 
  I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt
  completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like
  they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable
  about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now.
 
  An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are
  shouted down in, by the same people every time.
 
 
 
 
  If there is a threat out there,  no matter small people should be a)
  aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems,  if everyone
 does
  small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider
  community benefits,
 
  Look at how many bot nets are out there,  there seems to be several
  million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and
  awaiting some instruction to do something nasty,
 
  some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so
  unless you understand what it is asking you to do
 
  #
 
 
  Do not install unsigned packages
  # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said
 repository
  # Keep your system up to date at all times
  # Keep all browser plugins up to date
  # If your distribution has SELinux, use it
  # Do not let others install software on your machines
  # Use solid passwords
  # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why
 
  Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the
  above issues,  the reference to SELinux could have a link to the
 SELinux
  website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful
  and what I should use it,  it says don't install things you don't
  understand,  well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort
 of
  understand does this mean I should or should not install it,  (look
 at
  that from a complete new user viewpoint)
 
 
 
  Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really
  does baffle the novice,  lets take a step back and address each of
 the
  above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems
 more
  secure through education and advice.
 
  I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people
 can
  help me explain each of the above points please, this information
 will
  then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and
 novice
  help others.
  Hope this helps
 
  In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something
 to
  include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation,
 
  Paul

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

2013-08-22 Thread J Fernyhough

 On 22/08/13 13:21, James Morrissey wrote:

--snip--

 The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and that the
 freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on battery power (i am


This sounds like a problem with the Broadcom drivers - this was a
known problem with early versions of bcmwl-kernel-source 6.* (5.* was
fine), but I'm not sure if it has been addressed. The easiest
workaround I found for my Mini311c was to use the b43 driver
(firmware-b43-installer) - other people gave up and put in an Intel
wireless card instead (not an ideal solution but it works).

I haven't used my 311c for a while (since I got a refurb X61) but the
bug report [1] has a link to an updated package from saucy [2] that's
been reported to fix the issue. Of course, if you don't have internet
access that doesn't help much...

Jonathon

[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/+bug/1134389
[2] 
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/6.30.223.30+bdcom-0ubuntu2/+build/4724924/+files/bcmwl-kernel-source_6.30.223.30%2Bbdcom-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

2013-08-22 Thread Liam Proven

On 22 August 2013 13:21, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am wondering if someone can help me with a major problem that i have been
 having in Ubuntu, pertaining to a notoriously hard to diagnose issue of
 random freezing.


That's nasty. :¬(

Unfortunately, intermittent problems are always very hard to troubleshoot.

One significant question is this:

* does the problem only occur under Linux?

If you have any other OS on the machine, use that for a while and see
if it suffers the problem as well. Windows is the obvious candidate,
but there are other potential ones as well - Mac OS X, PC-BSD etc.




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

On 22 August 2013 14:46, Martin Dixon mh.di...@btinternet.com wrote:

  Hi James.

 For what it is worth I had a similar problem with 12.04 and 12.10 and
 found the only solution was to reinstall 12.10 and refrain from doing any
 updates.
 13.04 works OK with all updates loaded, but I used both with a Ubuntu One
 link as security until I was sure.


Hi Martin,

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate the sense of solidarity and
take hope from the fact that this worked itself out for you. That said, ss
it not dangerous to run a machine without any of the updates?
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

On 22 August 2013 15:00, J Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 22/08/13 13:21, James Morrissey wrote:
 
 --snip--
 
  The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and that
 the
  freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on battery power (i
 am
 

 This sounds like a problem with the Broadcom drivers - this was a
 known problem with early versions of bcmwl-kernel-source 6.* (5.* was
 fine), but I'm not sure if it has been addressed. The easiest
 workaround I found for my Mini311c was to use the b43 driver
 (firmware-b43-installer)


Yes, that sounds right. Through trawling many forums i was vaguely
convinced that this was a wireless-broadcom problem. This also ties in with
the fact that i have had numerous problems getting my wireless to work on
different releases, on this machine.

With this in mind could someone tell me which packages i need to have
installed in order to get wireless working. At the moment i have Broadcom
STA wireless driver installed, which happened when i enabled additional
drivers. If i uninstall bcmwl-kernel-source, which of the following
packages do i need to install in order to get my wireless working:
firmware-b43-installer, firmware-b43-lppy-installer, b43-fwcutter, and/or
firmware-b43legacy-installer. I ask because i have had other problems
installing the wrong packages in 13.04 after trying to the the upstream
kernel to work (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2140655) -
ironically part of a vain attempt to resolve the freezing issue.

- other people gave up and put in an Intel
 wireless card instead (not an ideal solution but it works).


I have thought of this and would be happy to be rid of this broadcom issue
altogether - the only reason i have this card is because Lenovo replaced my
previous faulty machine (which had an intel card) with a newer model, which
only had a broadcom option. That said, forums tell me that with a laptop i
need to make sure the wireless card is compatible with the rest of the
machine's components. How do i check this to determine which intel card to
buy? Lenovo support is so useless as to make me loath to try contact them
about it.

Thanks for the help,

j
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

On 22 August 2013 15:04, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote:



 * does the problem only occur under Linux?

 If you have any other OS on the machine, use that for a while and see
 if it suffers the problem as well. Windows is the obvious candidate,
 but there are other potential ones as well - Mac OS X, PC-BSD etc.


I have a windows partition on my HDD, but only really keep it there so that
i can run the BIOS update utility from Lenovo. The partition is only really
big enough to do that - i am not sure i could fit a LibreOffice or even
anti-virus install on the space that is there. Thus i can't do much that is
productive in windows - which is fine as i don't use it for anything -
meaning that testing this is a time waster. Thus while i could test this i
would happily first see if the driver fix resolves it first.

Will hold out on this and if nothing else works, sit on windows for a day
this weekend...

Thanks,

j
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

2013-08-22 Thread Liam Proven

On 22 August 2013 14:36, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a windows partition on my HDD, but only really keep it there so that
i can run the BIOS update utility from Lenovo. The partition is only really
big enough to do that - i am not sure i could fit a LibreOffice or even
anti-virus install on the space that is there. Thus i can't do much that is
productive in windows - which is fine as i don't use it for anything -
meaning that testing this is a time waster. Thus while i could test this i
would happily first see if the driver fix resolves it first.

Will hold out on this and if nothing else works, sit on windows for a day
this weekend...

GParted will allow you to resize it a little.

Also, you could give Windows a data partition on the end of the drive
and move your Documents folder there. Also give it a general clear-out
- empty the bin, empty the Temp folders in \Windows and your home
folder; disable hibernation; disable the swap file (or move it to the
data drive). That should buy you a few free gig.

(I wrote an article with a few tips here:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1004689/how-to-give-a-tired-old-pc-a-spring-clean
)

Ninite.com is very useful for quickly, cleanly installing a whole
selection of freeware/FOSS Windows apps to get you up and running.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04

2013-08-22 Thread J Fernyhough

On 22 August 2013 14:30, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.com wrote:
If i uninstall bcmwl-kernel-source, which of the following packages
do i need to install in order to get my wireless working:
firmware-b43-installer, firmware-b43-lppy-installer, b43-fwcutter, and/or
firmware-b43legacy-installer. I ask because i have had other problems
installing the wrong packages in 13.04 after trying to the the upstream
kernel to work (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2140655) -
ironically part of a vain attempt to resolve the freezing issue.

This depends on the card. I'd start with firmware-b43-installer. IIRC
it will complain if it's the wrong one for the card (but according to
the saucy package it lists the BCM4322 as compatible; not sure if this
is the same family as the BCM43228).

I have thought of this and would be happy to be rid of this broadcom issue
altogether - the only reason i have this card is because Lenovo replaced my
previous faulty machine (which had an intel card) with a newer model, which
only had a broadcom option. That said, forums tell me that with a laptop i
need to make sure the wireless card is compatible with the rest of the
machine's components. How do i check this to determine which intel card to
buy? Lenovo support is so useless as to make me loath to try contact them
about it.

It appears from a quick search that the only Intel-based card that is
included in the whitelist is 60Y3253 - Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205
802.11a/b/g/n card (Intel 6205 chipset) [1]. There's a possibility
that there's a hacked BIOS out there which removes the whitelisting,
though (there certainly are for the X61 [2]); I'm not recommending
this but there are threads out there [3].

[1]
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X131e-WLAN-BIOS-Whitelist/td-p/1103623
[2]
http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo/459591-t61-x61-sata-ii-1-5-gb-s-cap-willing-pay-solution-8.html#post6501443
[3]
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/5866-LENOVO-%28IBM%29-Bioses-especially-Thinkpad

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Has anybody seen this and what do you think......

On 31/07/13 20:42, Pete wrote:
 I guess most if not everyone out there know that Governments use
 Windows XP (Uk Gov't) and that it costs quite a huge amount to pay in
 bulk licenses, including local councils. Does anyone know how much
 these bulk licenses cost and how many the UK Gov't have?

 Well, onto the main reason I am posting - I have sent an email to my
 local MP to look into using a Linux based OS instead of Windows as
 they wont need to pay for licenses which will presumably save hundreds
 of thousands.

 Why not send an email to your local MP or the MP that deals with the
 IT or whoever it is that does.

 What's your thoughts on this?

More to the point ask what the plan is once XP reaches end of life,  in
2014 and suggest alternatives,  but people are going to need training,
support in its use,  etc,  who can provide that, who can provide tech
support, etc,   how much are canonicals packages on support.  etc

on this basis  any pointers to people who can perhaps support local
government in this may be helpful, 

Paul

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!




It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals
have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that
my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.


I second this,  I have come across the get lost and use google brigade
even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences,  with
something.  its really off putting,.   I have however found this forum
friendly and helpful so  in this context it is OTHER forums where I have
had problems.  but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community
that looks bad.

Paul

I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I 
feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people 
can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention 
this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of negative 
comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the idea at all 
and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of laziness and 
'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm more than happy 
to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have any proof that 
anybody else will even turn up!


We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these forums, 
chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand (whichever 
floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, constructive and 
supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need to drag the tone 
down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public way, keep it 1 on 1.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

2013-08-22 Thread Laura Czajkowski


On 22/08/13 15:59, Gareth France wrote:




I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I 
feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people 
can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention 
this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of 
negative comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the 
idea at all and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of 
laziness and 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm 
more than happy to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have 
any proof that anybody else will even turn up!


We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these 
forums, chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand 
(whichever floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, 
constructive and supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need 
to drag the tone down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public 
way, keep it 1 on 1.




Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / 
time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list 
so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps 
you could add the event to the loco team portal.


Laura

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LoCo Council Member
Community Council Member


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!




Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date 
/ time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing 
list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, 
perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal.


Laura

Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been 
focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on 
the nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of 
the way like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on 
the whole their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a 
little confidence. It just seems a shame people aren't more positive 
sometimes.


As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone 
knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

 Gareth,

 There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
 time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I
 assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could
 add the event to the loco team portal.

 Laura

 Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
 focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the
 nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
 like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole
 their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence.
 It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.

 As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
 knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started.

Where are you?

Colin

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!


On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote:

On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I
assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could
add the event to the loco team portal.

Laura


Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the
nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole
their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence.
It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.

As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started.

Where are you?

Colin

High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton 
Keynes but nothing I would consider local.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread Peter Maddison

Yep, that's exactly what I meant, if you don't use the 'official' repo then 
you're open to all manner of 'nasties' ready to infect your PC.
Pete M ( :-P )

 To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
 From: psmo...@live.com
 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:34:31 +0100
 Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as 
 nobody has mentioned it on here yet.

 On 21/08/13 08:27, Colin Law wrote:
  On 21 August 2013 04:05, Peter Maddison ponchorat1...@hotmail.com wrote:

  NOTE the keyword -- IF you install it.
  Unless you NEVER use the OFFICIAL REPO and are totally careless with your 
  system then there's a VERY high chance you could infect your system with 
  ANY virus.

  I don't think that is what you meant to say, but I am not sure what
  you did mean.

  Colin

 I think he meant UN-official repos! And I am more fussy today than i was
 6 years ago when i first made the leap from windoze do Ubuntu partly
 because I have now found my favourite packages, and know what I want,
 partly because I am more aware of the risks!

 In some ways this has narrowed my view, and I am less likely to
 experiment with the latest ( possibly greatest) new thing out there,
 but at least my productivity has improved ;)

 in short as long as we are aware of the risks, we are (hopefully) all
 intelligent enough to make an informed choice, and we just have a duty
 to put the info out there to inform new users of the potential risks of
 adding random PPA's so they are equally well informed.

 Pete S (the first one);)

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread Peter Maddison

Are you referring to the guy who wrote the piece or my reply?If my piece, 
what's wrong with it?
Pete

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:13:18 +0100
From: scoundrel...@gmail.com
To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as 
nobody has mentioned it on here yet.

Hi, I really dont understand the
  attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not
  everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody
  understands the risks involved especially considering for years
  its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
  group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a
  good light when people see this.

  On 21/08/2013 04:05, Peter Maddison wrote:

  NOTE the keyword -- IF you install it.
Unless you NEVER use the OFFICIAL REPO and are totally
  careless with your system then there's a VERY high chance you
  could infect your system with ANY virus.

I like the way he also goes on about it must mean that
  Linux must becoming a popular OS. and that Window$ gets hacked
  too. If hacking was THAT bad, Window$ would be no more. But
  it's STILL here, but do you notice there are virtually NO
  hacks reported or otherwise on Win95 or higher up to 200 and
  probably dying out on the XP as there's Vista, 7 and 8 to
  attack now.

Pete (a different one :-)  )

   To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com

 From: psmo...@live.com

 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:16:41 +0100

 Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it
might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.

 On 20/08/13 17:38, scoundrel50a wrote:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/hand-of-thief-malware-could-be-dangerous-if-you-install-it/?ftag=TRE475558as_cid=e011tag=nl.e011ttag=e011

 Thanks for the heads up first i'd heard of it

 suppose we all have to be more careful now we are no
longer the silent

 minority but gaining market share!

 Pete

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....

2013-08-22 Thread Peter Maddison

Thanks, I don't know what his problem is?
Pete

From: clan...@googlemail.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:25:05 +0100
To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as 
nobody has mentioned it on here yet.

On 21 August 2013 10:13, scoundrel50a scoundrel...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi, I really dont understand the
  attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not
  everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody
  understands the risks involved especially considering for years
  its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the
  group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a
  good light when people see this.
I don't think he was talking about you, he was commenting on the article you 
provided the link for.

Colin

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

On 22 August 2013 18:33, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote:

 On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

 Gareth,

 There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
 time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list
 so I
 assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you
 could
 add the event to the loco team portal.

 Laura

 Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
 focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on
 the
 nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
 like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the
 whole
 their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little
 confidence.
 It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.

 As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
 knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it
 started.

 Where are you?

 Colin

 High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton
 Keynes but nothing I would consider local.

OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :)

Colin

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!


On 22/08/13 20:13, Colin Law wrote:

On 22 August 2013 18:33, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote:

On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list
so I
assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you
could
add the event to the loco team portal.

Laura


Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on
the
nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the
whole
their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little
confidence.
It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.

As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it
started.

Where are you?

Colin


High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton
Keynes but nothing I would consider local.

OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :)

Colin

I think you made my point very nicely. The initial steps should be very 
local. Once I have a venue, date and a few attendees then it's worth 
announcing it places like here. I'm sure it will happen some time soon.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

2013-08-22 Thread Muñiz Piniella , Andrés

you?

 Colin

 High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton
 Keynes but nothing I would consider local.

 OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :)

 Colin

 I think you made my point very nicely. The initial steps should be very
local. Once I have a venue, date and a few attendees then it's worth
announcing it places like here. I'm sure it will happen some time soon.

I'll take the opportunity then to announce that
I run little workshops every tuesday evening in Ham. Between Richmond and
Kingston upon Thames.
We help people with IT, encourage FLOSS and do little projects for the
comunity (garduino, reprap 3d printer).

Might open more days if it proves popular.

Anybody is wellcome to join.
http://www.meetup.com/KingsofHack/
And
http://www.hamunitedgroup.org.uk/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

On 22/08/13 15:59, Gareth France wrote:

 It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
 that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals
 have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that
 my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.

 I second this,  I have come across the get lost and use google brigade
 even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences,  with
 something.  its really off putting,.   I have however found this forum
 friendly and helpful so  in this context it is OTHER forums where I have
 had problems.  but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community
 that looks bad.

 Paul

 I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I
 feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people
 can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention
 this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of
 negative comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the
 idea at all and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of
 laziness and 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm
 more than happy to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have
 any proof that anybody else will even turn up!

 We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these
 forums, chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand
 (whichever floats your boat) and so should keep it positive,
 constructive and supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need
 to drag the tone down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public
 way, keep it 1 on 1.


Yeah devon ./ cornwall is a bit like that,  i organize meetings in
Paignton once a month,

1 just find a venue,  and organise a date time,  then promote it,   i do
that with the paignton meets it varies between just me, 2 of us, or a
group of 5, 10 or 10+ depending on when the meeting is.

It is helpful to say what the venue provides, as in food / drink, is it
child friendly (remember pubs may not allow under 14's in and sometimes
people may bring their kids due to no choice or its the kids who may
have the interest

is there wifi,  (free),  you usually have to buy something and then ask
for the wifi info.

parking (see if you can provide info on parking)

power sockets etc, (good for meetings,)

Can people plug in things like laptops etc,  trust me some lug meets we
end up with tables full of wires, cables, robots, laptops and other bits
of tech,  lol

I am beginning to think promoting it as a Linux meeting may put people
off,  comparing how many goto the exeter pi jams to exeter lug meets
(far more at the former),  so it may be worth looking in to how you name
it,  computer group meeting, covers Windows, Mac, Linux, raspberry pi, 
could attract people, 

will the venue be ok to plug in laptops etc

so maybe set it up differently, http://plymouthwebdev.org/ group for
example have a simple webpage and a monthly meeting buit you just follow
them on twitter,  it may be easier,  and people then join that group  So
it may be a case of something like that,  so you're not Linux specific,
but can suggest a Open source bias (ruby is open source for example)  so
you then appeal to a wider audience,  if you want to attract raspberry
pi users,  make sure the venue is family friendly (and have a policy
from the start that kids come with parents) they should anyway,

print a poster with computer group name, meeting here,  mine has a pic
of tux,  then make sure you have something by a table where you are, 
let staff know too so they can direct people, maybe wear a t-shirt that
looks geeky

Once you have a group meeting socially then take it from there.

I am tied up with rugby for most of the year but I arrange the meet on
the 2nd satuday regardless, the group still meet up without me and do
their own thing,  but its regular,

Hope this helps and good luck,  don't be dis-hartened by lack of
attendance initially,  once you get going advertise in local papers, put
up posters and maybe even let schools know as there are technicians and
teaches who are getting in to all this too.

Paul

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Software freedom day event - 21st September 2013  - http://exeter.lug.org.uk/

I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!