Re: [ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 00:31 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote: Hey there, I think it'll look great once it's been ported across to the new site design, the site's looking really promising. One thing that does strike me however is the banner across the top. I'm not sure the ubuntu-uk logo needs repeating again in the banner. That green thing is just pug ugly. But that's about the only visual aspect I can be really negative about. It's a nice initial page. I quite like the banner because it makes the page seem not to be text-heavy, but it could be played with a bit. I think the arrangement of the rest of the text is good, too. I'm not that fond of the picture of a mountain landscape either. It seems a little out of place. The images in the banner could do with filling in the available area. Wonder if it'd be better to have uk-specific news and/or selected uk members' blog posts on the first page with an about link instead. Even though this new design is great for getting people involved in the group, is there a compelling reason to return to the site? Then again, is the page intended just for potential members? I know, e.g., posts are available elsewhere, but I'm lazy/time-constrained and want it all too easy. Good thing about this thread is I've actually paid a bit of attention to the site, because I didn't bother at first. Wonder how many people have been similarly slack in this regard, and why? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 08:37 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 12:31:41AM +0100, Chris Rowson wrote: Hey there, I think it'll look great once it's been ported across to the new site design, the site's looking really promising. One thing that does strike me however is the banner across the top. I'm not sure the ubuntu-uk logo needs repeating again in the banner. I'm not that fond of the picture of a mountain landscape either. It seems a little out of place. Refresh your browser, the image changes. There was originally just a picture of a London landscape, but it was decided that it would be more appropriate for the whole UK if the picture changed. I suggested that people could submit their own pictures, which would mean yet another way people could get involved. Where can I submit some and what dimensions? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 09:39 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:37:37AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Where can I submit some and what dimensions? I dont think we have a process yet, but if we uploaded the whole site to bzr then it would be nice to encourage members to use that for uploading pictures. If nothing else it would increase awareness and use of launchpad/bzr. Dunno about bzr, TBH. I can see quite a few people looking at it and not bothering. I'm not thinking about how easy or complex bzr may be, but the potential gaps this highlights elsewhere. Yahoo's apparently selling its independence to another company, so I've been looking around at alternatives to their services for FLOSS users like me, who like the approach and trust that usually goes with that way of doing things. There isn't much, which leads me to wonder: even though Linux is gaining a lot more 'non-geek' users, does the approach of the 'geek days' still dominate how we do things in areas that may be preventing us from adapting enough to new users' needs and making the most of the influences they might bring? Why aren't there prominent services like, say, Flickr or Gmail, by our community for people who prefer the FLOSS way of doing things and don't want to be tied to a company that retains the option to sell users short (even though Novell contradicted this, this is by far the exception to the rule)? AFAIK, there's very little in this area, maybe because to get the quality of software we have, a lot of us have to place the emphasis more more on how software works, rather than examining what we could potentially do with it? At the moment, I can pick many alternative services to, say, Flickr, but the independent ones are usually only independent because they exist to be bought out. Sod that. In this instance, for photos to the Ubuntu-UK site, I'd like to be able to upload photos to a social photo-sharing site and make this known through web-based email, all via high-quality projects run by the FLOSS community. IMHO, what's happening with Yahoo! makes this a good time to be thinking about it and about another possibility for indirectly promoting FLOSS. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 10:53 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 10:37:46AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 09:39 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:37:37AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Where can I submit some and what dimensions? I dont think we have a process yet, but if we uploaded the whole site to bzr then it would be nice to encourage members to use that for uploading pictures. If nothing else it would increase awareness and use of launchpad/bzr. Dunno about bzr, TBH. I can see quite a few people looking at it and not bothering. I'm not thinking about how easy or complex bzr may be, but the potential gaps this highlights elsewhere. Surely if you were told how to do it, it would pretty easy. I dont see this thing being done every day by every Ubuntu-UK loco member, so it's not exactly a headache. Yes, I've never used it, but it looks simple enough. Specific instructions for using it in this context would save time, though. It would also be a great learning exercise because bzr is used heavily in Ubuntu. It would be a nice way to get people learning how to use a versions control system. Never had to use one. What are the options? There isn't much, which leads me to wonder: even though Linux is gaining a lot more 'non-geek' users, does the approach of the 'geek days' still dominate how we do things in areas that may be preventing us from adapting enough to new users' needs and making the most of the influences they might bring? There is nothing geek about using a service such as bzr to upload an image. It is just an application. Difference is it doesn't have a funky web 2.0 frontend. No, there's nothing geek - most people may just not be aware of it, but more aware of other methods of sharing and submitting data. For getting images to the webmaster, more people will be aware of photo-sharing sites than VCSs. If there's any link regarding 'geekness' here, it's that photo-sharing sites are designed more to encourage greater sociability between people, whereas VCSs focus more on enabling groups to work towards getting 'the job' done. Why aren't there prominent services like, say, Flickr or Gmail, by our community for people who prefer the FLOSS way of doing things and don't want to be tied to a company that retains the option to sell users short (even though Novell contradicted this, this is by far the exception to the rule)? AFAIK, there's very little in this area, maybe because to get the quality of software we have, a lot of us have to place the emphasis more more on how software works, rather than examining what we could potentially do with it? That's a massive sentence and I don't understand what you are asking. It's about as massive as asking why aren't there more of the social websites for, e.g., photography, by the FLOSS community. I can appreciate you being peeved about a geek link with bzr, but the supposed complexity of that paragraph has no bearing on your opinion or the 'geekishness' or otherwise of bzr. 'Funkiness' we can scoff at, but usability we can't. 'Funkiness' means sweet FA without usability. Flickr has both. Bzr's lack of a 'funky' frontend perhaps just means that there's different tools for different tasks, since the mere existence of a GUI doesn't necessarily mean an application is more usable. The question remains, though: why do we neglect things like Flickr and Gmail? At the moment, I can pick many alternative services to, say, Flickr, but the independent ones are usually only independent because they exist to be bought out. Sod that. This is making bzr sound much more attractive. That's the point! I want options like this in other areas, too. In this instance, for photos to the Ubuntu-UK site, I'd like to be able to upload photos to a social photo-sharing site and make this known through web-based email, all via high-quality projects run by the FLOSS community. IMHO, what's happening with Yahoo! makes this a good time to be thinking about it and about another possibility for indirectly promoting FLOSS. You seem to be contradicting yourself. Social network sites are evil because they can be bought by evil companies I don't want to use an open system to upload my images, I'd like to use an evil social networking site. Call me thick. I don't get it. Short sentences work well on me. This is dodgy logic all round. The organisations behind some social network sites can take up a policy, by agreeing to be bought out in a way that transforms the network, that works against the interests of a number of users, whose views can be disregarded, depending on the personalities running the organisations. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 12:50 +0100, Alan Pope wrote:
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 12:23:49PM +0100, TheVeech wrote:
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 10:53 +0100, Alan Pope wrote:
Surely if you were told how to do it, it would pretty easy. I dont see
this
thing being done every day by every Ubuntu-UK loco member, so it's not
exactly a headache.
Yes, I've never used it, but it looks simple enough. Specific
instructions for using it in this context would save time, though.
This will of course happen once the stuff is in place - assuming we decide
to put the site in bzr. I just spoke to Jono and he is keen for us to do
this also.
Never had to use one. What are the options?
I'd suggest that we have a small wiki page detailing how to upload picture
rather than discussing the various options in mails on the list.
No, I'm not asking specifically for this task - I was just interested in
what's out there. No worries, I'll have a look.
There is nothing geek about using a service such as bzr to upload an
image. It is just an application. Difference is it doesn't have a funky
web
2.0 frontend.
No, there's nothing geek - most people may just not be aware of it, but
more aware of other methods of sharing and submitting data. For getting
images to the webmaster, more people will be aware of photo-sharing
sites than VCSs.
They are only aware of them because they are familiar with them and thus
have probably used them. Before that they didn't. They had to learn. Why is
it so hard for someone to spare a brain cell or five and learn something new
rather than bitch on about using some different utterly unrelated
technology?
Hey, easy tiger! Well I didn't make the direct link between the two
('elsewhere') - just that this way of doing things made me wonder why we
seem to lack these specific 'sociable' services that more people are
aware of, and which the proprietary world is doing more successfully at
the moment - like social-sharing photography sites.
Most people I've come across don't mind learning new things. With the
people you're referring to, what were the incentives for them to learn
what they did learn, since they had to learn that, too? So...why, and
why not VCS instead? Aside from caricaturing them, is it because people
tend to be more interested in the social aspects of things, because
they've got their 9-5 for the other stuff?
As for 'bitching', if we shouldn't ask these questions, why not -
eyeballs and bugs, and all that? I can learn new things and 'bitch'.
And I think both help.
If there's any link regarding 'geekness' here, it's that photo-sharing
sites are designed more to encourage greater sociability between people,
whereas VCSs focus more on enabling groups to work towards getting 'the
job' done.
Ok, I don't have time to sit and debate with you the pros and cons of
version control systems. I suspect that is for another time.
It's about as massive as asking why aren't there more of the social
websites for, e.g., photography, by the FLOSS community. I can
appreciate you being peeved about a geek link with bzr, but the supposed
complexity of that paragraph has no bearing on your opinion or the
'geekishness' or otherwise of bzr.
I am not peeved, I just figured that learning bzr though uploading an image
is a useful skill to have. Any idiot with a browser can upload a picture to
flickr. How does that help anyone?
LOL. Because any idiot might get more out of it through doing it this
way. Again, what's the incentives? People must get something out of
these social sites that isn't overtly helpful, but benefits people in
ways other than more goal-driven activities.
'Funkiness' we can scoff at, but usability we can't. 'Funkiness' means
sweet FA without usability. Flickr has both. Bzr's lack of a 'funky'
frontend perhaps just means that there's different tools for different
tasks, since the mere existence of a GUI doesn't necessarily mean an
application is more usable.
I don't want to argue with you about this, I just don't have the time and
for the most part I agree with you, so this will end up being a pointless
discussion from my perspective.
Cheers,
Al.
--
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Social FLOSS?
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 14:17 +0100, Tony Arnold wrote: Alan, Alan Pope wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about. You are saying that flickr/google video are proprietary social networking tools that we in the open source community lack? I think TheVeech is suggesting the open source community should create/manage/run more social networking tools such as flickr etc. rather than rely on big companies to do it for us and therefore (perhaps) not provide support for Linux etc. I hadn't thought of that last bit, but, yeah, that too! Personally, I think this would be very difficult. A service such as Flickr must need huge resources for it to be successful (I mean in terms of hardware, the disk space alone must be fairly huge). Such resources do not come for free, so it either needs to be done by a company that is earning money else where or the service itself has to get an income from somewhere. I've said this before, but I wouldn't mind paying as a way of contributing to something that's in our interests - I couldn't see it happening without some contributions - but run like the projects, to provide the best web-based services we can. But these are ideas without purpose, because I wouldn't know where to begin! BTW, IIRC, Google just uses bog standard Hard Drives. To be honest, I don't see the problem with Flickr! It's well supported by F-spot. Perhaps rumours of some deal between Yahoo and Micro$oft is worrying people. TBH, I haven't heard of anyone getting heated about this, but I've had enough of the situation. All of 'em are just stuck in the food chain. Flickr gets swallowed up by Yahoo!, Yahoo! is looking to being swallowed up by MS, Roman Abramovich buys Pluto. Regards, Tony. -- Tony Arnold, IT Security Coordinator, University of Manchester, IT Services Division, Kilburn Building, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL. T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED], H: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Using Bzr (Was: www.ubuntu-uk.org)
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 14:00 +0100, Stephen Garton wrote: On 09/05/07, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This will of course happen once the stuff is in place - assuming we decide to put the site in bzr. I just spoke to Jono and he is keen for us to do this also. Without getting embroiled in the discussion ;-) Just in case anyone isn't really familiar with bazaar, I wrote a walk through a couple of weeks ago on using it here... http://www.justuber.com/blog/2007/04/25/how-to-use-bazaar-and-launchpad-for-hosting-your-code/ Chris Cheers for the link Chris, I was just thinking about asking for a link to something like this :) I'll second that. Much needed. Thanks. After reading your post (and scanning throught the Bazaar tutorial you link to in it), I can see how bzr can be used as a version control system for code, but I don't see how it could/would/should be used in the manner being discussed in the other thread, i.e. people uploading 'british' images for use in the rotating banner. Is it similar to using (for example) scp to upload to a remote directory, but with revision control? If someone could clarify this, I would be most grateful! -- Steve Garton http://www.sheepeatingtaz.co.uk -- Steve Garton http://www.sheepeatingtaz.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 18:34 +0100, Michael Wood wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Great work on the site :) - The random UK images are a good idea - I don't like the yellow/green Ubuntu-UK logo background Any ideas on what it should be replaced with ? I'd just been borrowing graphics from : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Projects so far. No idea here, either, but there's someone on the forums who's posted some banners - might get you thinking. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=423968 There are rather a large number of ubuntu logos so something without the ubuntu logo would probably be good, though i'm not sure what exactly. - In the menu down the left hand side you've typo'd Resources Thanks, Corrected - Michael -- /\/\ichael [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] \/\/ood [ http://michaelwood.me.uk ] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 19:20 +0100, Toby Smithe wrote: On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 10:37 +0100, TheVeech wrote: On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 09:39 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:37:37AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Where can I submit some and what dimensions? I dont think we have a process yet, but if we uploaded the whole site to bzr then it would be nice to encourage members to use that for uploading pictures. If nothing else it would increase awareness and use of launchpad/bzr. Dunno about bzr, TBH. I can see quite a few people looking at it and not bothering. I'm not thinking about how easy or complex bzr may be, but the potential gaps this highlights elsewhere. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingBZR is a little tutorial I wrote for the UbuntuStudio team. Not that complex :) Thanks. I've bookmarked this and Chris's page (http://www.justuber.com/blog/2007/04/25/how-to-use-bazaar-and-launchpad-for-hosting-your-code/) for tomorrow. Productively, today's just disappeared! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] The Open Source Web
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 17:04 +0100, John Levin wrote: This is a subject that has been exercising me recently (curese you myspace!), so excuse venting and change of subject. Tony Arnold wrote: Alan, Alan Pope wrote: I have no idea what you're talking about. You are saying that flickr/google video are proprietary social networking tools that we in the open source community lack? There certainly are the tools, although they aren't widely used (which means, in this FLOSS context, that they aren't widely developed, or even known off). Leader of the FLOSS pack at the moment is mugshot: http://mugshot.org/main Thanks. Had a look at this, but didn't realise it was FLOSS. I'd love to hear more about these tools. I think TheVeech is suggesting the open source community should create/manage/run more social networking tools such as flickr etc. rather than rely on big companies to do it for us and therefore (perhaps) not provide support for Linux etc. We need support for our desktop and OS, yes, but we also need the many eyeballs to stomp bugs, improve security etc. A web application can (and many do) benefit from the floss community just as much as, say, firefox, ubuntu or the kernel. It'd help to see the new users coming along from different backgrounds using their fresh eyeballs, too, to examine even more than this - things we may have overlooked for years. Personally, I think this would be very difficult. A service such as Flickr must need huge resources for it to be successful (I mean in terms of hardware, the disk space alone must be fairly huge). Such resources do not come for free, so it either needs to be done by a company that is earning money else where or the service itself has to get an income from somewhere. Remember that Ubuntu, Debian, etc need huge and ever expanding resources for serving up increasing numbers of packages and isos; to help with this there is a mirroring infrastructure, and that model could work with the social web. At any rate, by being free n open, there are other ways of dealing with bandwidth and hardware, rather than the centralised system absolutely required of proprietory web services. Even though there's community aspects to distros' networks, have they dealt (maybe less so in recent years) primarily with the 'survival of the species' - technology to make technology better? Wasn't the GNU-GPL initially designed mainly to protect programmers' rights before all else? I don't know, but I think you're right that the way these networks, and things like jabber and bittorrent, have shown they can work for masses of people could be adapted to projects with a slightly different emphasis. But is the imperative there yet? I think the incentives behind FLOSS that I've read of are great for tasks, but less productive for getting people socialising in ways that you find on many of these sites. FWIW - and what makes it relevant here - is that it seems that the benefits that such social networks could have on productivity is a neglected area. I don't think the reason we've neglected such networks is just because they're proprietary and we're still too geeky, it's just that they effectively got there before us. It might be that proprietary services - OS and web - had to adapt sooner because they were hit with the usability demands of general users earlier than us, and we're just catching up. At times I still hear some sort of elitism from linux users that flies in the face of key principles - I'm as guilty as anyone of that - but this elitism isn't usually heartfelt and it's bound to become less of an issue with time. We might just have to wait for that time for 'socialising' sites like these to be seen as important in the FLOSS world. To be honest, I don't see the problem with Flickr! It's well supported by F-spot. Perhaps rumours of some deal between Yahoo and Micro$oft is worrying people. It's not free as in freedom: it suffers from lock-in (myspace is a far worse offender in this sense), the users are not stakeholders, but audience to be traded, etc; what applies to your desktop and operating system applies also to one's web applications. This is what gripes me a bit. I can get people using the OS, but when they get here, what am I going to say? Screw Flickr, email your snaps and see your mates down the pub? I'd get a predictable response no matter how good my arguments were. Okay, it's not the most important thing, but it's still something I can't do for people that could be done. These people want something I can't offer, so they'll just go elsewhere, and that elsewhere is probably going to be proprietary, with formats and ideologies that reinforce the idea that proprietary works, and with the idea that FLOSS must be for geeks because, to them, it looks anti-social in comparison. Okay, so far I've just been banging away on the benefits of free software
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Social FLOSS?
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 16:53 +0100, Tony Arnold wrote: Roman Abramovich buys Pluto. Does he know it's not a planet any more:-) Does he know he's not a manager? Does he even know he's not a planet :oO -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] BooHoo Yahoo
On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 14:16 +0100, Stephen Morrish wrote: The complete Google group of services are good. Hi Stephen. Yes, they are (the Gbutts FF extension is pretty useful - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3576 - esp. with dropdown menu, horizontal). I don't want to install Picasa, but the web interface for it (http://picasaweb.google.com/home) is good. I've just started using F-Spot again, and this works with Picasa on the Web. The Picasa app is good, but unnecessary with F-Spot's functions doing the job. Beyond that, I might actually start using my webspace, with some FLOSS apps, even though this isn't as immediately 'social'. Probable solution: Drupal (http://drupal.org/) 'Gallery' Drupal Module (http://drupal.org/project/gallery) Gallery (http://gallery.menalto.com/) Some of the programs do work nativly under Linux with some exceptions. It's a shame about Gtalk, but you can't have everything... What do you mean - you can't get it to work? Have you tried configuring Gaim/Pidgin (http://www.google.com/support/talk/bin/answer.py?answer=24073) for this? I use several PC's running different OS's, Googles browser sync is a real boon. I would be lost without the spell checker in Google tool bar. I use Gmail as my default email these days because of the multiple computers. I used to use Yahoo for all of these tasks but in the last year or so Google has become the centre of my on-line life. I use Gmail, too, and it's excellent. I did start to use other Google features, but don't want to rely on one service supplier for too many things. -- Regards Steve Morrish... AKA Pendragon ICQ 112 044 096 On 5/6/07, Josh Blacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Google's Picasa is quite good in my experience (and have an ubuntu client running under an integrated, tweaked wine), but doesn't offer nearly as many of the features of Flickr, I'm afraid, but its desktop-web integration is useful. Josh -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] BooHoo Yahoo
Yahoo's reported merger/takeover talks with MS means it's open (!) to selling its independence to the highest bidder. That it's MS they're talking with just emphasises my original stupidity and short-sightedness. I should have been more savvy to the long-term threat of something like this, especially before parting with cash. But now I've got to start looking at the alternatives on offer to the various services of theirs that I've used. I'm mainly looking for an alternative to Flickr!, though a list of alternatives to all their offerings would be helpful for trying something new and for when I come across people who are also facing the threat of having the rug pulled from beneath them. This would also be handy to distribute if or when the deal goes through. Anyone use/recommend free alternatives? I'm about to start the process of researching this, but anyone's knowledge and experiences would be a big help. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] An Introduction
On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 23:21 +0100, Gregory Kirby wrote: However, if you can afford it, I would get an ethernet DSL modem as they really do work out of the box, with no drivers necessary. HI Matt, Can I plug an ethernet modem into my existing ADSL BT/Demon connection? You could get a router with an integrated modem. I can only vouch for what I've used for ADSL: Netgear DG834 (wired router) Netgear DG834GT (wireless router) There are updated models available, too. Make sure it's for ADSL and that it's got an integrated modem. HTH -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
Personally, I think there's something that everyone needs to do before
they start talking up Linux.
MS has a huge marketing warchest and it's marketing has been highly
influential. We can talk to people till we're orange and brown in the
face but, once they leave the conversation, they're vulnerable to blind
Linux critics who know little but influence a lot. To most people,
Linux is a world away from where they are, but we can't bridge the gap
if the people and organisations who thrive on it aren't thought of in
context - substantially - but without the excesses of zealotry.
Even though we might be aware of the situation, to cope with MS's
misinformation on others, I think we need to educate people about it,
make them feel like they've been maltreated, and why MS has felt it has
had to do this. I.e., no talk of 'evil empires' (doesn't everyone
eventually grow out of that?), but a calm consideration of MS's business
model, along with plenty of talk about origins, aims and necessity.
What gave birth to MS? Why did Microsoft target, and think it needed to
target, users for misinformation? When people pronounce that Linux is
crap, they need to be tackled in a way that makes them realise that
they've been treated as a pretty minor element in the food chain, with
scant regard for their credibility in the company of those who are
better informed. If you then need to address the specifics, how many
specific facts do we need that our software's better?
The problem with these people isn't that they're any more stupid that
anyone else - I don't think anyone could seriously say that they've
never been influenced by propaganda. It's that they're not aware enough
of it to see that it's a trick that restricts them that they don't have
to put up with.
Like pretty much anything, I think we've got to be prepared for
irrationality, especially with people who see no compelling reason to
look at alternatives they have little knowledge of to start with. Most
people are 'stuck' with Windows 'because'.
But irrationality isn't something we're immune to. I agree with Mark's
scepticism about 'free'. I'd be interested - and this applies to
everyone - in research into what British people really think about such
concepts, beyond what we hope we think (we might be better at adapting
our messages if we knew this).
Even though I'm not anti-marketing, it's a bit ironic that we're talking
about enlightening people through the very discipline that sought to
establish an irrational link between quality and cost, so that in a
superficial cost argument 'free' can still too easily be associated with
inferiority or secrecy ('no such thing as a free lunch'). I'm not
anti-marketing because I think it can help with the antidote.
With 'freedom', though, there's just as much irrationality. Some people
who make substantial claims to favour it aren't even aware that such
claims run counter to what they're really like as people, suggesting
that their passion for OSS isn't as reliable as it seems. A Linux-using
guy I know is paranoid that his girlfriend is always having oral sex
with just about everyone (and I've had to endure the 'evidence'), so he
gets over-protective when there's a male around. I sat in his house the
other day, with his girlfriend there, and he was getting increasingly
insecure (especially when I started flirting with her because he was
just getting on my nerves). Then the conversation got to installing a
different version of Linux on her laptop.
Nothing I could do in terms of a logical argument, though, without
getting kicked out of the house. The choice is between Ubuntu and
Slackware. Logically, Ubuntu 7.04 is the better choice for her because
she's a novice and could do with, IMHO, the most usable release there's
been, backed up with a brilliant community that's all too willing to
help people like her make the most of the experience. Psychologically,
though, Slackware is the solution to flashbacks that never were, and
mustn't be. Result: Slackware.
In the past, I'd easily persuaded them to install a previous version of
Ubuntu, primarily for usability. But, now the paranoia's crept in to
become a big part of the relationship, this isn't any longer a rational
decision - it's a power one. I couldn't ask her what she wanted because
of the position this would have put her in and I don't think she really
gives a toss. He couldn't ask her, because he's trying to be a man. No
matter what the technical arguments are, it's got nothing to do with the
distro, so arguing about this was a waste of time. The choice is merely
a means by which he can position himself as the provider by using
information and power to sustain and increase dependence. Remember
those cavemen clubbing women? It's a bit like that.
This guy uses Linux because of its geek chic - the quality of the OS is
incidental. If geeks were singing Windows, it's back to Bill.
Regardless of the arguments he's put about 'free' this and that, he's
Re: [ubuntu-uk] FW: Leaflets
On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 21:03 +0100, Ian Pascoe wrote: OK, we've had lots of ideas and some quite warm debate, and a secret need to find out about the Veeches mate's girl friend (!) You ARE going to get me into trouble! but what and where do we go from here? Or is there still plenty to mull over? More personal experiences in different contexts? Keep thinking about the debate, for sure. Something personal I've noticed recently is that I've become more focused on freedom issues generally - i.e. beyond computing, even though I'm a hypocrite since I use restricted formats. But it's different experiences openly stated and willingly accepted for peer review where I think we can learn a lot, as well as some science, to add to the enthusiastic views of a small number of people. My earlier post, for example, was just applying knowledge to Linux that's been around elsewhere for decades. One of the strengths of this list, unlike a lot of forums, is that contradictory views are almost always welcomed and seen as a contribution rather than a slight. That means that the debates are often of a higher quality because people don't default to ego wars, territoriality is at a minimum, and it seems that people at least try to find answers that contribute something constructive. I think that the more we all hear from new people from different backgrounds, the bigger the stock of knowledge and interpretations we'll have available to consult. So, yes, I think there's plenty to mull over. But we need to hear from new people, too! BTW: Welcome! Just don't try to get me into trouble :o -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 13:09 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, May 02, 2007 at 12:50:57PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: [2] http://hants.lug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?InfoPoints/FlyerMasters [3] http://gllug.org.uk/index.php?/archives/25-Review-Software-Freedom-Day.html [4] http://misc.allbsd.de/Flyer Will take a good look at this perhaps tomorrow. Before then, I was confronted by a friend of mine on Monday, saying he'd been told by two of his colleagues that they'd tried Linux and thought it was crap. Heh, why is it people feel they can just sweep away thousands of applications and a robust kernel with it's crap. Ok I'll bite. I think Windows Vista is crap. There, quote me :) But it's great that Vista's come along. Now I can tell people I can't help them with it because I haven't used it enough. It's also great to be able to tell people that the upgrade isn't worth it. And I give it between six months and a year for the momentum of a new MS release to fade. The logic of the people who slated Linux was to try to discredit everything I have said about Linux, with the statement that they 'build computers', so they know what they're on about. Oh dear. My response was that on the basis of their comments these people clearly didn't know much about Linux, meaning that any failing system they had was probably down to them. I added that assembling a computer sounds impressive to people who don't have a need for much computer knowledge, but it's usually not cost-effective and is about as difficult as building an intermediate-level Lego or Meccano model (if anything, maybe these models are more difficult). What irritated me isn't that they slated Linux. It isn't even that they tried to discredit people they knew nothing about with such flimsy arguments. It's that there's people who listen to total jerks like this and their views start to become part of some sort of folklore that dissuades some people from giving the OS a good chance. Add to that the fact that some of their arguments are traceable to MS's negative campaigning down the years and you start to appreciate just how bad public IT knowledge can be. Another argument was that two people had tried it and had reached the same conclusion. Two people that thick in the same time zone? That's special. Reading between the lines of what was said, they clearly understood little about Linux because they understood nothing of its social and economic model, a model which means that Linux is a lot more than just an OS on a CD (so is Windows, for that matter). This suggests that they hadn't done any homework about the system, so any faults were likely on their part. I think it's crucial that people understand this as much as advocacy about the OS alone, tools and limited cost arguments. This is where I feel leaflets can come in handy. Here, read this. You don't have to argue with them, it's there in black and white. For some reason people seem more likely to trust a bit of paper than they do your voice. I guess a bit of paper with a logo on looks somehow more official, has an air of authority and truth. The thing to remember is that people don't like being told they made a stupid decision. Absolutely right. But to make a decision people need to know there's a practical choice and be well informed of that choice. Most don't and aren't. There's beginners who have a bit of pride and there's idiots who think they've got their finger on the pulse and cloud the issue for everyone else. I'm not that keen on talking IT offline. It's pretty boring. But I'm getting a bit disillusioned with having unavoidable conversations with people who think they're all that for no apparent reason. They look around their social circle, see people who barely know how to operate a system because that's all they really want to do, think, in this limited context, that they have some great insight and misinform those who aren't in a position to easily verify what they say. Most times it's best to avoid upsetting people, especially when they've got strong, heartfelt beliefs (agreed, winning an argument isn't usually worth making someone feel stupid), but I disagree with this diplomacy in this instance. If I meet up with these people I'm going to go to town on 'em and remove their ability to influence others because of the harm they can do. Screw Linux advocacy - this is about bogus people misinforming the public and seeking to discredit good work on the basis of nonsense and folklore. Besides, what would it take? 5 minutes? It's worth it because, until people in general are better informed (and it's not always their fault that they aren't), wiseguys like this sometimes need a kick up the backside for the bad attitudes and misinformation they promote. There is a guy here at work who has nailed his flag very firmly to the Windows mast. He is a vista fan through and through. Having worked in the past
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Desktop effects
On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 09:39 +0100, Keith Bowerman wrote: Since I upgraded to Feisty last month, I have suffered a minor hiccough whilst booting up. When logging in, the Ubuntu desktop opens but without my four workspace icons at the bottom right of the screen, and any filer window appears without the minimise, maximise and close icons at the top right of the screen. To counteract this I have to open SystemPreferencesDesktop effects, click on enable desktop effects, then click on Use previous settings which brings back the missing icons. The problem is that I have to do this every time I boot up. Does this happen to anyone else and if so, how have you cured it? No idea about this. Have there been any other reports elsewhere? Did you have a play with anything that was followed by this? I'm speculating here, but try selecting the session you want when you login (and making a successful one the default), in case that's something to do with it. I'd also take a look at the Sessions dialogue, System Preferences Sessions to see what's loading at boot time and if any changes are needed. As for the workspace icons, just put them back (right click on the panel, select 'Add to Panel' and drag and drop it wherever you want it to be). Regards, Keith. -- Keith Bowerman, Prestwood, south Staffordshire, England. Using Ubuntu 7.04 on a Linux only machine. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] screencasts, was Leaflets
On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 13:13 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, May 02, 2007 at 12:50:57PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: About the medium, how about also getting a bunch of us to spend some quality time collaborating on a series of screencasts, then distributing them on video sites, via bittorrent and even on CDs to be handed out to the public? An entirely different subject I would like to takle separately from leaflets. Before distribution the first step is making them. The biggest stumbler I have had is getting people to actually make them :( Yes, but maybe it's a case of pooling our talents. E.g. you're especially good at the narration but, I might be able to help with others on ideas and scripts. Other people might want to do storyboards, and so on. I'm not too sure about the different ways of bringing this about, but I'm sold on the idea that these screencasts are important enough to deserve more of my time at least, if what I'm hopeless at can be done by other people. Maybe this collaborative approach would benefit from the screencasts having its own list/forum, but, again, I'm not too clued up on this. We've shifted a ridiculous amount of traffic from the screencasts site, I mean really, quite mental amounts. But we have had very few people contributing screencasts to us. If anyone can suggest ways to improve this, please let me know! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 14:42 +0100, Mark Harrison wrote: Right - I'll step forward as a marketeer :-) However, in typical marketing style, I'm going to answer the question I wish you'd asked instead... hence I'm going to talk about the general flyers for use at shows issue, rather than the specifics of how to craft a flyer that explicitly has the purpose of answering questions. I'd be more interested in how relevant your experience of shows is to working outside of them. Have you done this and how do the experiences compare? We had a long discussion discussion in the Sussex LUG about the leaflets to use for the British Computer Fair stands that the LUG runs each month. The FLYER that we designed at that point (and reportedly worked well at attracting attention) can be found at http://www.youraffiliateexpert.com/temp/ - versions in ODP and PDF formats I ought now to explain WHY I recommended this approach. - The purpose of the flyer was to make people stop at the stand, and ask more. It was NOT to answer people's questions. The logic was that it was far more effective to hook someone with a bold leaflet, and then get them into a 1-1 conversation with someone who could relate to their issues, than to try to create a reference document for people to take away and not read. Bang on. Tech documents have to be pretty good to avoid that. Trouble is, most ventures would also know that you've got to lure people in, and be aware of the techniques that can be used. That means that if you don't hit the substance, it's down to who's got the best phrases. I'm in favour, BTW, of creating a takeaway reference document as proposed, but I think that a flyer to get people to stop at the table is helpful at any show. But stopping people on the street you'd have to have something for them to go to on the net and want to find out more. Whether such a flyer's enough to do this, I'm not sure. - This is ONE example to show the format of the leaflet. There were several others, each with a photo, a name, a job title and a catchy soundbite. At BCF, the majority of attendees are NOT IT professionals, so we deliberately tried to pick references who worked outside the IT industry as well to plant some rapport into the minds of the passers-by that this WASN'T something that only appealed to geeks. Obviously, at an IT-industry event, it would be far more sensible to pick people/soundbites that were from the industry ; or if it were a travel industry event, to pick them from the travel industry, or for a local government event, to pick them from local government, or... well you get the idea - create a feeling in the mind of the passerby that the person on the leaflet is similar to them, and faces similar issues. But for each and every person who says they switched to Linux, how many haven't. Er, why? Ok, thanks, see ya. You've tried an approach in the flyer and hit a few buttons, but I wouldn't be sold. 300 quid? Big deal. Illegal copy? If I had to, at least I'm getting something expensive for nowt and duped a multinational. Switch to something better? Says you - all those people who use Office stupid/unenlightened too? Give over. There's endless approaches - e.g., IMHO, a better approach in this context would have been to hit the unfaithful lover and tell the other one they can do better. But could Linux ever be as desirable/sexy as it is dependable? - Each flyer had a consistent layout - name/title top left, photo top right, quote middle, ...just another person to bswitch to linux/b bottom middle, Tux bottom left. Obviously, this was for a LUG - if the Ubuntu_UK list wants to do something, then it should have an Ubuntu logo instead. I don't really buy it and your soundbite is only one of many - i.e. some are better than others. Just having a soundbite means little. Applying science makes you no different to countless other proponents of this craft. Where's the beef? Status is a weak argument, however you use it. I think it's a wasted opportunity. At the top it's like 'hey look at me, I'm a rocket scientist, you'd better listen to me' and at the bottom, 'but hey people, I'm just like you'! Rocket scientists, just like any other professionals, would want more substance than what's on offer here. Sure, people can be suckers for status, but substantial arguments can't be so easily dismissed by opponents. E.g. in business, Bill Gates is richer than you. Bill Gates has used marketing better than you. His company is one of the most successful in the world. He uses Windows. EVERYONE uses Windows. I might try Linux one day, but thanks anyway. Maybe flyers with arguments like this have a short-term impact (not least because there's a reason these people are at the show in the first place) but, IMHO, it ain't got the legs to survive long outside of the show because of what critics can do to your arguments before you have
Re: [ubuntu-uk] screencasts, was Leaflets
On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 11:14 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 10:58:47AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Yes, but maybe it's a case of pooling our talents. E.g. you're especially good at the narration but, I might be able to help with others on ideas and scripts. Other people might want to do storyboards, and so on. Thank you for the compliment. I completely agree with you, and we actually have that process in place! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests has the list of screencasts we would like to see made. Many of the linked pages there are blank. That's where we need people to fill in ideas, scripts, storyboards as you say. I've come across this, but didn't think to give any input. From now, count me in. I hope others will think about it, too, because the potential of the work that could be done here's so far untapped, IMHO. In addition we need people to think up more screencasts to make. Of course making them is a priority too :) I did mention looking at the forums to get an idea for what people might want to know about and what could be simplified through a screencast. It ain't exactly science, but it's one of the best sources we've got as far as I can see. I'm not too sure about the different ways of bringing this about, but I'm sold on the idea that these screencasts are important enough to deserve more of my time at least, if what I'm hopeless at can be done by other people. Maybe this collaborative approach would benefit from the screencasts having its own list/forum, but, again, I'm not too clued up on this. We hang around in #ubuntu-doc (the documentation team channel) and on the ubuntu-doc mailing list. There doesnt seem to be enough traffic to justify a whole list to ourselves, although I have seen some very quiet lists :) I'll have to try to keep persuading you about this, then! My guess is that once we start getting some more projects underway, the traffic for a list would gradually take care of itself. Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing? I really appreciate your interest in this project. I value peoples feedback. Not at all. I'm surprised that more people on this list haven't shown an interest. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Desktop effects
On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 12:30 +0100, Keith Bowerman wrote: Following advice from TheVeech, I saved the current session, rebooted and everything's hunky dory. It's easy when you know how isn't it? Just have around the System Preferences and System Administration menus, to get a feel for things to start with. Many thanks for the help. No worries! If you are interested in eye candy, you might want to play around with themes, icons, etc. (but make a note of your default setup in case you want to revert to it). Some sources: http://art.gnome.org/ http://www.gnome-look.org/ http://art.ubuntu.com/main.php Just remember that some of the configurations can have implications for certain programs, that's why some are better 'out of the box' than others, beyond just how they look at first, although there's usually workarounds. E.g., in Epiphany, creating your own stylesheet addresses some of the incompatibilities of some themes. HTH Keith. -- Keith Bowerman, Prestwood, south Staffordshire, England. Using Ubuntu 7.04 on a Linux only machine. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mindmapping (was Loading Fiesty into Mac mini)
On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 13:49 +0100, Neil Greenwood wrote: On 29/04/07, TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've decided to give Vym another chance because I rely on mindpammping quite a lot and because there was only one dependency (libqt3-mt) with it. You never know, I might get attached to it. If not, there's bound to be another solution around soon. Did you mean Kdissert? 'Cos otherwise this doesn't seem to fit with your previous views... No. Vym. I'm trying to avoid the huge dependencies of using KDE apps on a GNOME system. I still prefer Kdissert by a mile, but Vym will get me by. Just curious, since I'm also interested in mindmapping software. There's also online mindmapping (the wikipedia article links to a site, I think), but I don't know if there's a free (speech) version. I'd be particularly interested in this as a feature for things like collaborative work, so if you find out anything, please post it! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 12:00 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: IMHO, the WD Passport is a great piece of kit, especially for laptops and people who have to be mobile. Yes, I'll keep it as backup but I would at some time like to have Ubuntu on it so that I could plug it into someone else's Windows machine to demonstrate how friendly Ububtu is. You'd be better off just burning the LiveCD and showing them with that. What I'm preparing to do is install Ubuntu on the internal HDD of the machine. If you agree to this, forget all about pendrives and external HDDs for now. The priority's to get that machine working. The WD Passport you might as well use as a backup device and to shift data between machines. Just plug it into the Feisty machine and it should load (mount) straight away. To unload (unmount), I have to input in Terminal: For the mac, it is recommended (and works) that the desktop icon is dropped into waste bin. I was referring to Ubuntu. My external SATA drive functions a lot better for some reason. I trust that you pointed out what a bad investment they were making with Vista for the free future updates and virus protection. Nope. I wasn't there to sell/argue anything, but was there to do the best for them. There's plenty of good arguments against MS products (and against using Linux there's a few, too), but that wasn't the context. I suspect there's a bit of this involved with your new machine. And why not. It's your machine and it doesn't hurt to try out alternatives, especially when that alternative's already set up and ready to go. No. You've got the wrong end of the stick. My missus is happy with her iphoto and Neooffice J because she can handle it and itmeets her needs. We've got The Gimp and Photoshop/Illustrator and have not yet found enough need to spend the time on learning either. About 95% of my need (apart from the net) is met by Open Office and I am keen to keep up to date with it. Then why isn't she happy with the old Mac Mini? It seems that what machine either of you use is pretty irrelevant, except for the issue that you'll get more Ubuntu support with the Intel Mac (especially in the long-term). Besides, if her data's on the old Mac, why the effort to transfer it to the new one? (This is just thinking out loud - no need to answer). It doesn't particularly bother me what machine we install it on, but you might want to consult some people who'd know more than me about this support issue. Ever thought of a laser printer? I'd never, ever, EVER go back to inkjets. Yes, but currently beyond ouir pocket for a good colour job. Why colour? Monochrome is more cost-effective and there's some good machines out there that won't break the bank (not least because, with moderate use, the consumables last forever!). I'd only use colour inkjets for 6 x 4 photo printers (but then again I had one of these, used it a few times, and didn't use it again. If you could spare a couple of minutes to look at our website www.cornishhedges.com, you will see why colour is a necessary evil for us. No need at all that I can see, if you're talking about web design. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 12:13 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: Guys and Dolls, During the meeting last night on irc we discussed various marketing ideas. These included the Tux 500 [0] campaign and the firefox New York Times advert [2]. These seem to many of us to be very expensive options for marketing Ubuntu. An alternative that Hampshire LUG has used at info points is the leaflet [3]. A simple A4 page folded twice to make a handy bit of info to give away. Indeed during Software Freedom Day last year Greater London LUG gave away a leaflet with each Ubuntu CD to help explain FLOSS concepts and where to go for more help. At FOSDEM this year I picked up a whole bunch of *BSD leaflets. They had a whole bunch [4] explaining different concepts of BSD. I really liked the leaflets, which I figured could be given out with Ubuntu CDs (where ever you find yourself doing that), or just handed to people who ask lots of akward questions :) Then we discover we have a member who runs a printing company who would be willing to get his design team to work on the leaflets for us, and print a load too. This seems like too good an opportunity to pass up. So my questions are, do we have anyone who can write good copy (or know where to blag it from the wiki) to make a good leaflet or two? Should this be done by the marketing team and not us? What leaflets (at a high level) would you like to see? What is Ubuntu? What is Linux? Can I run my Windows software? kind of flyers immediately spring to mind. Help! Cheers, Al. [0] http://www.tux500.com/ [1] http://www.mozilla.org/press/mozilla-2004-12-15.html [2] http://hants.lug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?InfoPoints/FlyerMasters [3] http://gllug.org.uk/index.php?/archives/25-Review-Software-Freedom-Day.html [4] http://misc.allbsd.de/Flyer Will take a good look at this perhaps tomorrow. Before then, I was confronted by a friend of mine on Monday, saying he'd been told by two of his colleagues that they'd tried Linux and thought it was crap. Reading between the lines of what was said, they clearly understood little about Linux because they understood nothing of its social and economic model, a model which means that Linux is a lot more than just an OS on a CD (so is Windows, for that matter). This suggests that they hadn't done any homework about the system, so any faults were likely on their part. I think it's crucial that people understand this as much as advocacy about the OS alone, tools and limited cost arguments. About the medium, how about also getting a bunch of us to spend some quality time collaborating on a series of screencasts, then distributing them on video sites, via bittorrent and even on CDs to be handed out to the public? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] SD card (reader) mysteries
On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 21:01 +0100, alan c wrote: Thanks, yes, one of the test machines is using an external powered usb hub - I also tried into the usb card directly on this, and a second machine. Still not working? If that's the case, I'd try to borrow a friend's kit and see what happens. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] FW: Linux on a USB pendrive
On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 21:34 +0100, Dave Walker wrote: On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 21:28 +0100, Ian Pascoe wrote: Could you install an equivilant of a Live CD onto a USB device? Although I appreciate that this doesn't answer the original question, I'd guess it would speed up the experience of using a CD? There are a few guide on doing this. These two seems quite comprehensive: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/01/25/usb-x-ubuntu-610 http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-usb-bar Let us know how you get on. I got this post late. Is this common? Anyway, will have a go at some stage and report back. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 18:31 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: On 4/29/07, TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:30 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: Does one just download the .iso file below onto the desktop, then onto the HDD ? Download the iso Burn the disk image (iso) to CD Boot computer from the CD (this is the install) This sounds good to me except that 1. I haven't burnt a CD before, but imagine that I just folllow the instructions but 2. The CD drive in the mac mini has a reluctance to eject and I have to try it many times, including holding the computer at odd angles in an effort to persuade it to disgorge. Accordingly I am reluctant to use it. I have an assortment of pen drives up to 1gb and unexpectedly been given by my elder daughter, as her father's 75th birthday present, a brand new Western Digital Passport 160gb which perhaps can be used instead of the CD drive as a boot disc ? Or will a pen drive do which I would prefer because I can easily store it away safely. The order in with Applestore for the new mac mini. When it comes I shall first g... have to copy my missus' files over to the new machine I'd have divorced her. grrr...in order to release the old one for Fiesty and me grrr... As the only applications she uses are iphoto (which should come ready loaded) and Neooffice J (note the J, and is no longer available on the web), this should be a doddle (famous last words ?). I've got to make the case: if that's all she uses, why are you surrendering all that machine for two measly apps? She is already using copies of Neooffice J because the copy she currently uses every so often throws a wobbly and she goes to a backup ( again again). Then we can clean the Apple Mac rubbish off the HDD and replace with magnificant Ubuntu and its superb allied software. I need help in deciding how this new 160gb HD fits in, please. I think that you may still require details of my hardware. 160gb?!? That's the first I've heard of a 160gb HDD. Where has it got to fit in? And yes, post whatever details you can. Might be an idea to ask in a Mac forum, or on the Ubuntu Mac one for how to do this (output the hardware details). What do you want and where do I find it ? Currently my Ububtu machine can't print via the Epsom Stylus Photo RX640 although the mac mini does ok - the disc that came with the printer had apparently not heard of Linux. Let's see if we can get it to work then. Connect the printer to the Ubuntu machine and switch it on. System Administration Printing Double click 'New Printer' and go through the wizard. If a model is listed that isn't the exact one, don't fret. It should still work, if my experience of Epsom's is anything to go by. Ever thought of a laser printer? I'd never, ever, EVER go back to inkjets. Gotta go. Big game tonight. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Linux on a USB pendrive
On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 08:56 +0100, Johnathon Tinsley wrote: On 28/04/07, TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just got myself a 160gb WD Passport USB HDD for my laptop, so I've freed up my 2gb pendrive and I'm looking around for what to do to run a fully functioning distro (doesn't have to be Ubuntu) with a home partition on it. Anyone had a go at this? Have a go with Damn Small Linux. It has an option to install to usb. Also because it is debian based you should be familiar with how it works. ... You might also want to try Flashlinux (flashlinux.org). It's designed not to kill your usb key with a special filesystem, but its for 256MB keys, and hasn't been updated in a while. Although, you can get it working on larger keys. Thanks. Looking at a few of the distros available, it seems the instructions are quite similar and there's quite a lot of choice. I came across these, which look like good starting points: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveUSB http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ For Ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent As usual, there's countless UbuntuForums (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php) threads on this, too. For just using portable software on a pendrive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_portable_software -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] SD card (reader) mysteries
On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 16:12 +0100, alan c wrote: I bought a multi card reader (external USB) some time ago for use with CF cards which I was using at the time. I have recently begun using SD cards and the first ones were 16MB and 1GB SD. The 16MB has always been recognised immediately via the card reader and kubuntu (6.06, 6.10, 7.04) but the 1GB cards are only recognised intermittently. In fact I had one replaced at the retail shop. The replacement did not get recognised either(!) I now have additional 2GB sd cards and again they are sometimes recognised, but mostly not. Same happens in 'doze XP, intermittent and unpredictable. Sigh. I sort of conclude that the card reader is old technology and I need a newer one, which hopefully will handle larger SD better. (?) It is not a question about mounting the card, it is simply not seen as a card device, although the card reader is shown ok in lsusb. The cards all work ok in their respective units - a camera and DAB radios etc, and can be seen and downloaded via usb from their units, but not (usually) from the card reader. I would be very interested in comments - SD standards seem to be a bit of a nightmare according to wikipedia. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Are you sure enough power's being supplied to the USB card reader? My WD Passport HDD and 2GB pen drive won't get recognised on my laptop with insufficient power, but my 256MB pen drive will. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mindmapping (was Loading Fiesty into Mac mini)
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 07:29 +0100, I C McNab wrote: TheVeech wrote: On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 22:16 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: [SNIP] Nowadays (IIRC like Alan Pope) I'm sticking to GNOME programs, avoiding KDE. I use laptops as a rule, so this prevents resource waste seeing as though there's only one task I rely on - mindmapping - that isn't well covered by GNOME. I noticed your mention of mindmapping. What app do you use? -- Ian Hi. I've used: Vym http://www.insilmaril.de/vym/ Kdissert http://freehackers.org/~tnagy/kdissert.html and Freemind http://freehackers.org/~tnagy/kdissert.html There's some other apps that look interesting, but these three seem to be the major ones. I've heard OO.org being recommended, too, but this slows down the process. I didn't rate Vym. Kdissert I preferred out of all of them, but I can't justify installing the KDE libraries for one or two applications. Freemind, I'm waiting for version 0.9.0, which will hopefully work with java 6. There is a GNOME app: Labyrinth, I think, but, IIRC, it's in a very early stage of development. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mind_Mapping_software -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 10:39 +0100, LeeUKHA wrote: We've got time for you to try writing the disk image on the laptop. Like I've said, though, if you can burn a disk image with software on your existing Mac, give it a go. Rather then messing about with burning CDs, why not just burn one yourself, check the integrity by booting the CD and running the disk check, and then sticking it in the post? And then order a load in from the Canonical 'Ship-it' service for next time... I even thought about making the journey to Robin's and suggesting that list members could make some contribution to the costs. But I drive a gas-guzzler and it'd cost a small fortune. Besides, I haven't got that much spare time right now. I thought about posting a CD, but burning an ISO isn't that tough to justify it. I think it also helps when you're doing any task to learn associated tasks that aren't that complex - like burning disks - along the way, because once you've got the knowledge you can adapt it in other ways. I think the Shipit idea is a good one - and one that Robin's taken up - but I think most people would rather just download the image and burn it. It's faster and more convenient this way but a lot of people find doing some things new difficult at first. Oh, and I'm not Mother Theresa. Thanks for the suggestion, though. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 10:34 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: I'm afraid that my missus has put her oar in and insists that she has the new machine. This means that I shall have to transfer all her folders + Neooffice J (she doesn't like the later versions) on to the new machine via pen drive before we can get going. But it does mean that we shall be putting Ubuntu on the old pre-intel mac mini and so can now get the info you need if you will tell me where to look, please. Well, we've got a 60gb HDD, but how much RAM do we have on this machine? We need to know this for partitioning. I'd guess that this is the forum you could do with consulting: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=133 If you haven't registered for the forums and would like to, but would like someone to do this for you, email me the username (do not send the email to the list) you'd like to use and I'll try to register it and email you back the details, including a password you'll need to change (i.e. you shouldn't trust anyone with your password). And the documentation: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/powerpc/index.html I wish I could future-proof myself - everything's slowly sliding downhill. I don't have to keep the mac core programs and applications (such touching faith in Ubuntu). I can manage my files within 20gb if necessary, although having more makes life much easier. Swings and roundabouts, one door closes another one opens, etc., etc. You will have more space than 20gb. Seeing as though you aren't interested in video and audio, space shouldn't even remotely be a problem. Now we've got the 60gb HDD to play with, which, once my missus has cleared her stuff out, can be cleaned as much as is needed. There will be no applications that I will be keeping and the doc files can be taken off on a pen drive for the time being, then put back. The install will do the cleaning, since we'll format the drive. If we are using the HDD in the mac mini (or do you mean CD), there's no need for a CD ? We'll need to install Ubuntu with a CD on the old Mac. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 13:22 +0100, LeeUKHA wrote: Yes, you're right, though it's a bit irrelevant now, since Robin's ordered a CD from ShipIt. I'm not sure what the delivery dates are currently, but last time I ordered it took several weeks... Damn. Hadn't thought of that. Thanks for flagging it up. Robin has suggested that the install isn't an emergency, so we might be able to wait for the disk. But... What with FF recently being released I'd bet there is a surge in requests happening now... :( this might be a problem! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mindmapping (was Loading Fiesty into Mac mini)
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 13:40 +0100, I C McNab wrote: TheVeech wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 07:29 +0100, I C McNab wrote: I noticed your mention of mindmapping. What app do you use? -- Ian Hi. I've used: Vym http://www.insilmaril.de/vym/ Kdissert http://freehackers.org/~tnagy/kdissert.html and Freemind http://freehackers.org/~tnagy/kdissert.html There's some other apps that look interesting, but these three seem to be the major ones. I've heard OO.org being recommended, too, but this slows down the process. I didn't rate Vym. Kdissert I preferred out of all of them, but I can't justify installing the KDE libraries for one or two applications. Freemind, I'm waiting for version 0.9.0, which will hopefully work with java 6. There is a GNOME app: Labyrinth, I think, but, IIRC, it's in a very early stage of development. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mind_Mapping_software Thanks for all the info. From what you say, sounds like there's nothing quite like, say, MindManager (only on that other OS), then. :-( I'll follow up your recommendations. No worries. I've decided to give Vym another chance because I rely on mindpammping quite a lot and because there was only one dependency (libqt3-mt) with it. You never know, I might get attached to it. If not, there's bound to be another solution around soon. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 14:52 +0100, Toby Smithe wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 12:41 +0100, TheVeech wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 12:26 +0100, Toby Smithe wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 12:16 +0100, TheVeech wrote: I even thought about making the journey to Robin's and suggesting that list members could make some contribution to the costs. But I drive a gas-guzzler and it'd cost a small fortune. Besides, I haven't got that much spare time right now. I thought about posting a CD, but burning an ISO isn't that tough to justify it. I think it also helps when you're doing any task to learn associated tasks that aren't that complex - like burning disks - along the way, because once you've got the knowledge you can adapt it in other ways. I still don't understand why you are using Brasero for the very simple task of ISO burning, for which GNOME provides a simple but apt default interface. I find Brasero better and even simpler (possibly mainly because I was happy to find a good GNOME alternative to K3b). I'm open to contradictory views, though. Than double-clicking an ISO and pressing one button? Ok. LOL. Okay, okay, hands up! Excuse? I haven't used nautilus for burning disks for a long time. If we do this again, then, you can handle those who want to use this and I'll look after those with Brasero. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 14:51 +0100, Toby Smithe wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 10:34 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: I'm afraid that my missus has put her oar in and insists that she has the new machine. This means that I shall have to transfer all her folders + Neooffice J (she doesn't like the later versions) on to the new machine via pen drive before we can get going. But it does mean that we shall be putting Ubuntu on the old pre-intel mac mini and so can now get the info you need if you will tell me where to look, please. If it's not an Intel Mac, it must be a PowerPC Mac, and as such will not run the Intel-based software (nor is PowerPC officially supported any more, since Feisty). Robin, it's starting to look like you're going to have to give your other half one hell of a guilt trip to reclaim that new machine. We'll all be thinking of you :O -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 16:14 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: I've had a look at the forums (? fora) again, and gained no further insight, their problems tend to be in isolation. Well I think once you take a dislike to something, nothing's going to shift you! :) If you were to sum up much of the support in this list, you'd say it was specific to the questioner's needs. This is how it tends to work with support on the forums, too. Isolation/specificity - essentially the same thing, but with different connotations and attitudes that are suggestive of how different people can approach resources. You're never going to find the thread: 'Mr Menneer: here's the answer to whatever computing issue you're after' but search is a powerful tool and if you have a good look around, you should pick up some helpful tips. And looked at the manual which seems to be for Edgy but which soon leaves me behind.. A paragraph or two seem quite ok, then suddenly I'm faced with something I have difficulty in coping with. My indifferent memory doesn't help. Just dip into these things and try to get a general idea, rather than aim to master everything in one go. You might find some of the video tutorials helpful. In another thread today, someone's already mentioned the screencasts at the documentation pages (http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/). There's also others, a couple being: http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ http://ubuntuclips.org/ Try searching for more if you find this medium helps. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 16:37 +0100, Toby Smithe wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 16:14 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: Does this mean that Fiesty won't go on a PowerPCmac leaving me with Dapper ? No. It only means that there is no official support by Canonical. I'm unsure of the availability of security updates as a result. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/release/ The ISOs are still provided. I've had a look at the forums (? fora) again, and gained no further insight, their problems tend to be in isolation. And looked at the manual which seems to be for Edgy but which soon leaves me behind.. A paragraph or two seem quite ok, then suddenly I'm faced with something I have difficulty in coping with. My indifferent memory doesn't help. Feisty should work on the machine just fine. Hi Toby, have you got any experience with these machines? If so, can you give Robin a hand with the preparation for the install? To us it's probably an easy task, but everyone's at different levels, and Robin could do with all the help he can get right now. It might also help if you could run him through the process of using nautilus to burn the disk image if he might find this simpler (a PDF is quick and easy to knock out - once, that is, it's established that he can actually burn a disk on the machine running Ubuntu - otherwise, it might be an idea to get someone who knows the Mac's burning software he might have). -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:30 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: Neither am I, but I have a Mac which came with the machine. Does one just download the .iso file below onto the desktop, then onto the HDD ? Surely it cannot be that easy. Back on Tuesday. Firstly, you download the iso to your HDD. The desktop is hosted on your HDD, so if you download it to your Desktop directory, you'll have it on your HDD. Secondly, with the downloaded iso, you use a disk burning application to burn the iso to the disk. Look for an instruction like: 'Burn Image to a CD'. This is very different to merely copying the iso file to a CD. See: Definitions (Reading only the introductions to these articles will keep it simple) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.iso Tutorials https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto (incl. instructions for Macs) http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/burning_an_iso_to_cd_with_ubuntu Not forgetting Toby's instructions (repeated here) that avoid having to install another application in Ubuntu: It's as simple as download the desktop image to the hard drive, double click file, reboot with CD. (Although I'm not sure how the Mac firmware handles booting from CD). This is the image file required: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/release/ubuntu-7.04-desktop-powerpc.iso You should just be able to click the link; save it, and burn it from the file manager. That said, I still think you should try to reclaim the new machine for Ubuntu. Is divorce an option? :o = While looking at these links I also found something else that might be helpful later - a tutorial for The GIMP (a benefit of searching through resources): http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/the_gimp_user_interface -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:14 +0100, Toby Smithe wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:03 +0100, TheVeech wrote: Hi Toby, have you got any experience with these machines? If so, can you give Robin a hand with the preparation for the install? To us it's probably an easy task, but everyone's at different levels, and Robin could do with all the help he can get right now. I don't have any experience with the machines; I'm just using the tools available to me for research ;) Darn! I might have to hassle some PPC people on the forums then. BTW, thanks for the input. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:30 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: Does one just download the .iso file below onto the desktop, then onto the HDD ? Download the iso Burn the disk image (iso) to CD Boot computer from the CD (this is the install) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] f-spot vs. iphoto
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 09:23 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Fri, 2007-04-27 at 23:10 +0100, TheVeech wrote: If you wanted Picasa, an easy way to install it may be to use Automatix http://www.getautomatix.com/ (Link for Feisty i386 download: http://www.getautomatix.com/apt/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/automatix2_1.1-3.12-7.04feisty_i386.deb) which is a program that makes it very simple to install a number of programs that aren't in the official repositories. Personally I don't use Automatix and, while some people find it really helpful, others frown upon it. But at the stage of learning that you're at, it's a compromise that's probably worth taking up. If by compromise you mean might make it painful to update packages and will be highly likely to make an upgrade to the next release of ubuntu break, then yes, install automatix. Personally I wouldn't touch it, and I don't think we should be advocating its use. The short term gain of quickly installing software will quickly be forgotten 6 months later when you can't upgrade the system easily using the standard tools. There's a trade off for sure. As a rough guess I'd think that the people who'd benefit from using something like Automatix are more likely to initially want to do less advanced things with their computers, so a fresh install of a new release is simpler since it doesn't entail days of configuration. If their knowledge increases, they're more likely to follow 'better' practises, but it's up to users if they want to learn and if they don't, there's always going to be a trade off. It's ideal to get people to follow good practises from the off, but you can't force people to take on board what you advise if they're committed not to. I like people like this, though, because they learn more because they want to experiment and make more demands of the OS. Some people stick with a low level of knowledge, so letting them use such methods isn't the end of the world and, at worst, you just have to back up data and do a fresh install (something I advocate anyway) when there's a new release should anything break otherwise - including official updates/upgrades. That said, though I'm not as strongly opposed to these automated methods for beginners, I prefer official channels, too, but it took a lot of experimenting for me to get to that stage. The way usability and popularity's going, non-official automated methods may become increasingly unnecessary. But right now, I'm also an advocate of people experimenting and learning with the different possibilities before (ideally) settling down and realising that a streamlined system is best. Then they can choose to start afresh with better ideas and organisation. But whatever the debate about Automatix, advocating that there's things we should and shouldn't recommend is great and means that we could get together, pool our knowledge and thrash out some sort of common policy from the combined knowledge available. If this happens, I'd be more than happy to contribute and follow a path we've agreed on. We've also got the ideal situation with Robin's Mac of being able to kill two birds with one stone: work on a live project, testing and refining our approach, and getting Robin's system up and running. There's also the possibility of doing something offering instructions in one place on how to install what the automated methods offer, if this hasn't already been done. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Linux on a USB pendrive
Just got myself a 160gb WD Passport USB HDD for my laptop, so I've freed up my 2gb pendrive and I'm looking around for what to do to run a fully functioning distro (doesn't have to be Ubuntu) with a home partition on it. Anyone had a go at this? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] f-spot vs. iphoto
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 10:50 +0100, Kris Marsh wrote: On 4/28/07, Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2007-04-27 at 23:10 +0100, TheVeech wrote: If you wanted Picasa, an easy way to install it may be to use Automatix http://www.getautomatix.com/ (Link for Feisty i386 download: http://www.getautomatix.com/apt/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/automatix2_1.1-3.12-7.04feisty_i386.deb) which is a program that makes it very simple to install a number of programs that aren't in the official repositories. Personally I don't use Automatix and, while some people find it really helpful, others frown upon it. But at the stage of learning that you're at, it's a compromise that's probably worth taking up. If by compromise you mean might make it painful to update packages and will be highly likely to make an upgrade to the next release of ubuntu break, then yes, install automatix. Personally I wouldn't touch it, and I don't think we should be advocating its use. The short term gain of quickly installing software will quickly be forgotten 6 months later when you can't upgrade the system easily using the standard tools. Cheers, Al. For Picasa, you could download it for Linux from http://picasa.google.com/linux/download.html - the deb package will work for Ubuntu, and it's a great way to ensure that you have the right dependencies (wine version etc.) Download to your desktop, and then double click to install the deb :-) Thanks - I didn't know a deb was available. rant I agree about Automatix - It's getting more and more redundant as MOTUs package more applications, and as people (slowly) start writing their apps for Linux. I personally think that Automatix is a temporary (broken) solution to a problem that is rapidly getting solved, so it may not be a great idea to install it. /rant Oh boy, if you think that's a rant, get over to Usenet! Cheers, Kris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 16:37 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: Thank you severally for your long mails. I've loaded Picasa easily using the file name you gave me, and now think that f-spot may be better, but I do need the straighten facility, hence going for Fiesty (apart from its other improvements unknown to me). I'm happy with the suggestion that you use me as a guinea-pig for installing Fiesty, providing you keep things simple and have plenty of patience. Bear in mind, please, that I don't need music and motion pictures, but do want OOo Writer and Draw in a version that doesn't mess me about. I do require things that are as reliable as software ever is (discounting Windows of course). I'm happy to give feedback on how well a package installs and performs for an oldie, including interface ergonomics, but cannot cope with coding any longer. As regards timing, I can fit in most mornings after 10am or afternoons but am less alive after 4pm, and have a hands-free phone which makes things easier. Probably this coming Friday, Saturday or Sunday would suit assuming the hardware is delivered. Otherwise next week. Installation isn't desperately urgent, I just want it right and good, please. YrsRobin LOL. Robin, you've got to try to give applications a bit more time to become comfortable and familiar with them before you discount them! That said, usability-wise, F-Spot is pretty good, as is gThumb, and they also have 'good' licenses. I tried to avoid the term 'guinea pig', though everyone (understandably) tends to duck for cover at the mention of more work, especially in weather like this! What we'll - me and you, that is - do is get you a functioning system. Once we iron out any machine-specific issues, you'll then be free to chase the rest up at your leisure in any forum or list you choose at the pace you want. Feisty it is, then, and for the initial install of the OS, at least, it looks like you're stuck with me, so don't worry about complexities and patience - I'm accustomed to working with people who aren't technical wizards, so we should be okay. It would help hugely if you could have someone with you at the time for another pair of ears and eyeballs - just hassle a relative or friend (they don't need to be technical, either). Again, though, don't worry if you can't do this. When you get a fixed date for delivery let me know and I'll email you. I'll need to give you a landline number to contact me on (you don't want to be paying mobile phone rates for sure), but I won't know what that is until the day we do it, so bear with me on that. When the machine is actually with you, we can fix the time we do this. Writer and Draw come as default, so no worries there. There's a new version of OO.org in Feisty, but you should still know your way around. But it's going to help you more if you tweak your approach to things. I think your ideas about your relationship with the technology your use puts you at a disadvantage from the start. This software won't 'mess you about' in any way, shape or form. It's up to you. It'll be you who's messing about if you don't put any effort into being more self-sufficient - i.e. you need to start trying to learn more about the technology you use to keep on top of it. I'm not interested in the many reasons people claim for being unable to do this - I hear these all the time, and you'd be surprised at some of the classics people can come out with. Had you learned more before this, you'd be better prepared now for this install and what comes after it, but that's the situation we're in, so let's get it out of the way first. If I recall correctly, at the moment you're using Edgy? What CD burner do you use? Brasero's quite handy and easy to use. If you want to use this, type this into a terminal: sudo apt-get install brasero This is what I use, so it'll make my job easier since I can follow what you're doing. Try also to get the specifics of the machine to me as soon as possible (today would be good!) so I can get prepared and do a bit of research this week. Before then, this might give you a bit of confidence: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=415070 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 22:16 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: I hasten to reply today that as far as I know, there are 2 models of mac mini and and I am supposed to be getting the one with 80Gb hard disc, ie the model with the higher specification, plus keyboard and screen all from Applestore. I will know nothing more until delivery. I don't know anything about burning a CD but believe it isn't too difficult, I assume that we will be using the one on the new mac mini. Currently I using Daffy, not Edgy. do you want me to put basero on my compact laptop or on Tiger in the mac mini when it comes? I'm not sure of the worth of the CD drive on the laptop, it's about 5 or 6 years old. I have another mac mini a year old running Tiger with a CD drive which does't like ejecting its discs so I use it as little as possible (I use pen drives for backup). Should I buy new discs and are there different sorts, if so what should I get and how many? Would a pen drive do the job ? Had a look at the forum you recommend above, reassuring in some ways, daunting in others. At the end of the day, I need to be in serious business with OOo and have no fears about a new version if it is a development of the old. Other software can be added at leisure. Thank you for your help. Robin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 22:16 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: I hasten to reply today that as far as I know, there are 2 models of mac mini and and I am supposed to be getting the one with 80Gb hard disc, ie the model with the higher specification, plus keyboard and screen all from Applestore. OK. I'll take a look at this model. I'm relieved that you've got the whole kit here because there shouldn't be any weird configuration problems. We're starting off well. If there's a chance you could get an email from AppleStore with the specifications? We can take this discussion off the list when we're doing the install, but it's best to keep posting here in the hope that someone will spot any mistakes/bad judgement and jump in. Let's take your 80gb HDD. The way I've set up partitions on my machines in the past has been to use a whopping 10gb for the root partition (that's the part of the drive that hosts your applications). That was when I was thinking about future-proofing, but how far in the future was I thinking?!? Bizarre. Nowadays (IIRC like Alan Pope) I'm sticking to GNOME programs, avoiding KDE. I use laptops as a rule, so this prevents resource waste seeing as though there's only one task I rely on - mindmapping - that isn't well covered by GNOME. I will know nothing more until delivery. Oh! I don't know anything about burning a CD but believe it isn't too difficult, I assume that we will be using the one on the new mac mini. For the install, we'll be using the disk in the Mac Mini. If you want to burn the disk image on that, you'll have to find out what app you need to use. If we're using Ubuntu software to make the disk, I'd prefer to use Brasero because I can send you a PDF with instructions specific to that program. Currently I using Daffy, not Edgy. do you want me to put basero on my compact laptop or on Tiger in the mac mini when it comes? I'm not sure of the worth of the CD drive on the laptop, it's about 5 or 6 years old. I have another mac mini a year old running Tiger with a CD drive which does't like ejecting its discs so I use it as little as possible (I use pen drives for backup). Should I buy new discs and are there different sorts, if so what should I get and how many? Would a pen drive do the job ? Had a look at the forum you recommend above, reassuring in some ways, daunting in others. At the end of the day, I need to be in serious business with OOo and have no fears about a new version if it is a development of the old. Other software can be added at leisure. Thank you for your help. Robin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Fiesty into Mac mini
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 23:12 +0100, TheVeech wrote: Currently I using Daffy, not Edgy. do you want me to put basero on my compact laptop or on Tiger in the mac mini when it comes? I'm not sure of the worth of the CD drive on the laptop, it's about 5 or 6 years old. I have another mac mini a year old running Tiger with a CD drive which does't like ejecting its discs so I use it as little as possible (I use pen drives for backup). Should I buy new discs and are there different sorts, if so what should I get and how many? Would a pen drive do the job ? Had a look at the forum you recommend above, reassuring in some ways, daunting in others. At the end of the day, I need to be in serious business with OOo and have no fears about a new version if it is a development of the old. Other software can be added at leisure. Thank you for your help. Robin You should be fine with OO.org then. You'll have to install Brasero on your Ubuntu installation, unless it's available on Tiger - I'll look later, but I'm watching Match of the Day at the moment, and I've only just realised that I've already inadvertently sent 2 replies! We've got time for you to try writing the disk image on the laptop. Like I've said, though, if you can burn a disk image with software on your existing Mac, give it a go. We could try installing off your pen drive, but I want to keep it simple, so we'll start off with the intention of using a CD. We may need to play with the BIOS (check wikipedia for definition), but on this I haven't got the slightest idea how Apple machines approach this. Something else to look into. Get whatever disks your drive supports. Any CD you can write to should be okay. Ideally burn 2 copies just in case one fails during the actual install - this has happened with installs I've done in the past with no prior warning whatsoever. Just get as few disks as you can. The forum thread is a bit daunting in parts, but at least the people on it are reporting success! I might try and get in touch with the people who posted there for their experiences after the weekend, seeing as though they're using these specific machines. Back to partitioning, I'll look further into this and hope people on the list post their thoughts on it, too. Don't forget, though, that it's your computer, so you're the boss. Just because people might be helping you out, this doesn't mean that you're under any obligation to accept anything you don't want. I'd suggest setting the Mac up to use Ubuntu only, and ditch Mac's OS. The reasoning behind this I've mentioned before. I'd add that my opinion is that you're better off sticking with one OS to avoid confusion and not water down your knowledge across multiple OSes and applications. Get to know one well, rather than two superficially. You need to consider this choice, and I don't mind whatever you decide. Here's roughly (ignoring 1024) what I'd do with an 80gb disk with, say, 1gb of RAM (RAM we need to confirm since conventional wisdom is to set a Swap partition of double your amount of RAM): / (root) 8gb ext3 bootable /home 70gb ext3 /swap 2gb Finally, don't thank anyone yet. We've yet to do the work. Despite me nagging you more than you probably deserve, the thing that really impresses me is that you've stuck with Linux. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] f-spot vs. iphoto
On Fri, 2007-04-27 at 21:40 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: Thanks. Didn't know abouit the f-spot page, but a brief look at it doesn't encourage me but I'll look again. Towards the end of this week I'm likely to get a brand new Intel mac mini and naturally I want to use Ubuntu on it. Even having read about all the Feisty bugs reported on this list recently, I am tempted to go for Feisty because of the ability to use f-spot the same as iphoto (and then I can persuade my missus to switch from iphoto). I'm afraid that The Gimp is not an option for me at the moment due to work pressures but I look forward to grappling with it later on. Firstly am I being stupid, and ought to wait until the novelty of Feisty has worn off and it has become reliable? If not, how should I load Fiesty bearing in mind that I have never burnt a disc and didn't load Daffy myself, having had it done as a turn-key job for me? I'm happy to learn how to run in Ubuntu, except I'm finding learning, these days, an uphill job because I can no longer remember sequences and my handwriting is getting difficult to read. The help I got with loading f-spot was super. First off, I'm coming from the experience of installing on i386 PCs, and have no knowledge of recent Macs at all (you may need specific advice on this). Personally, I'd go with Feisty straight away. I've been running it since Beta and I've had relatively few problems - no more than you'd expect from changing to any new release, but this release is about as usable as Linux gets, so, again, I'd recommend Feisty without reservation (even over Long Term Support, which it lacks). Another program you could look at for photos is Google's Picasa http://picasa.google.com/ Unfortunately, this is a resource hog, but I've always had positive feedback from people about its usability and features. But see also: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=365802 If you wanted Picasa, an easy way to install it may be to use Automatix http://www.getautomatix.com/ (Link for Feisty i386 download: http://www.getautomatix.com/apt/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/automatix2_1.1-3.12-7.04feisty_i386.deb) which is a program that makes it very simple to install a number of programs that aren't in the official repositories. Personally I don't use Automatix and, while some people find it really helpful, others frown upon it. But at the stage of learning that you're at, it's a compromise that's probably worth taking up. To save on resources, though, you could stick with the more than capable default programs: F-Spot, or just use gThumb, using The GIMP alongside it to do more with your pictures. I think this combination is ideal, and is worth the time learning about a new set of programs. The GIMP is easy and rewarding to use. Your use of OpenOffice.org Draw suggests you like to use an app and stick with it to do numerous tasks. You could use The GIMP similarly in that you can do a lot with it, but ignore the parts you won't use. The advantage of using The GIMP is that you can start off simple and then become more advanced without having to yet again learn a different app - i.e. it's powerful enough to keep up with your progression. If you do get round to playing with it, just hover over the tools for descriptions and take a quick look at the menus, noting what features you'd like to use. Time for this? Not that long. Half an hour here and there and you'll pick it up in no time at all. In fact, once you start playing with it, you'll probably enjoy the experience and want to experiment a lot more. Even though you don't really need them if you prefer learning by doing, there's plenty of guides around on The GIMP and books, if you don't mind investing. For the Mac install, it would help if you have another computer connected to the net at the same time, but it's not a disaster if you haven't. Finding someone who's been through this on that particular machine and would be prepared to do it for you would be ideal. But that's unlikely to happen. Instead, I'm sure enough people would be willing to help you as you go along, so long as the time's convenient. It might help to have someone else physically with you at the time of install, though, to help with any printed instructions and guidance. First off, have you got a printer? If so, this will help because you'll have instructions in front of you while you're installing. Can you post specifics of the machine (as I haven't used an Intel Mac Mini, I don't know what makes up one), so people can determine what exactly you're getting? Can you also give a good idea when you're getting the machine and are planning the install? This way you can arrange with anyone who's willing to help a time when they're free to help out if you get stuck. I'm assuming you've got a phone! Finally, stop worrying! You don't need to remember sequences! It isn't The Parallax View. This will be your first time doing an install, but it isn't that
Re: [ubuntu-uk] OOo Draw - expanding points menu
On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 15:25 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: About a month ago, two of you kindly responded to solve my problem with OOo Draw where I cannot raise the points sub-menu by clicking on the Points icon. Quite correctly you suggested my goining into Edit Points which worked. Now (returning to it after a while) I can't even get that to work and I've no note of the kind person who helped me last time. Almost makes me think kindly of WIN or perhaps it doesn't have Draw. Help please. This is the reply I think you're thinking of: On 3/31/07, Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:36:26 +0100 Robin Menneer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A problem has developed in Draw whereby the points command does not raise the points menu, so while I can move the pints (default) I cannot delete or insert points. The toolbar can be shown again by selecting View-Toolbars-Edit Points from the menus. It works ! Many thanks. I'm using a compaq 386 laptop and there is 2.6mb free, Help please That must be an exercise in patience. Robert McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.ormiret.com You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Loading Ubuntu on to a Mac mini
On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 10:45 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: Done wot you said and got *no package is selected* so am unable to apply Sorry to be difficult. Robin I think there's a problem here that's more significant than just a particular problem with installing a specific application. If you get your answers to this problem, there'll only be a lot more in the pipeline because your knowledge is so deliberately poor. In other words, you're not thick, but you've chosen to not use things like forums without really devoting time to getting used to them. No-one's born with a stock of knowledge for using these things, so everyone has to become familiar with them, but you'll get over that if you give them more of a chance. Searching through and lurking in forums and/or leafing through some documentation can be a great source of knowledge and you'll learn things that you didn't intend to learn that may help at another time with another issue. Unfortunately, once people get stuck in a rut and used to their habits, they'll defend them to the hilt with all manner of appeals but, because you're habits are restricting you to such an extent, you're always going to have headaches with Ubuntu if you chose not to address them (and they're far easier to address than you may fear). Whatever resources you choose, you'll always find people more than willing to help out - that's the way things work - but this can limit your knowledge, too. Being over-reliant on a small section of people as are on this list can be a problem since they may not always have the answers that others in other forums/formats may have. There's benefits to be had even if you don't find answers to your specific queries. For example, say you searched for an answer to F-Spot, but couldn't find it, at least you'll learn how to search, where to search, how to ask, and so on. Limiting your options to just this list means that you may be missing out on things that most people get a grasp of in a short space of time. I've got someone who's not only a senior but who also has significant memory problems, and yet this person still knows his way around after a couple of months. One of the reasons for this is that he had the options explained to him well - if anything, I think you may have lacked this initial guidance which would have made it more likely that you'd adapt well. The basics aren't rocket science and you're more than capable of picking them up (you were able enough to find and join this list, after all), but I think a thread/links devoted to how and where to look for answers would help you a lot more than merely being told how to install F-Spot, as would devoting some time to playing with the options. All that said, it looks like you may face some problems in getting this Mac up and running. Do you know someone who can do that for you if it's too daunting a task? If you do, observe what they're doing and ask questions as they go along - disk partitioning is where some people get stuck. This is also an easy enough task once you're familiar with it. I would recommend not dual booting, though, because using two OSes is a bit of a diversion and waste of computing resources, unless you need to for work. If you don't know anyone, is there anyone on the list, or a member of a local LUG from your area who'd be willing to help out as a favour? Find out and take it from there or get back if you're still stuck. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Orange broadband
On Thu, 2007-04-19 at 13:10 +0100, Dianne Reuby wrote: I've had a good report on Orange broadband, from someone who uses it to run his business. But the CD only list Windows, and website requirements state Windows. I've asked about Linux, but while I wait for a reply, does anyone else use Orange broadband with Ubuntu? I set up a connection with Orange and didn't bother with the CD - IMHO no-one should bother with these things, even if they were to work with Linux. Just remember the people who design those disks are only a few steps up in the same food chain as Customer Support people. Sorry I can't remember the specifics of the setup but, if I can dig something out, I'll get back to you ASAP. Accessing the settings is a doddle, though, via your web browser. Connect the Ethernet cable, get the page up (the address of this I can't recall, though have a look at the orange site for instructions for manual setup or call Orange), enter your username and password and you're in. In short, it can be done. The Orange site should have some info for securing your wireless connection. If you're unsure about this, though, post back. Quality-wise, I can't judge yet. I do know I kept getting an error message when trying to send email with my gmail account via Evolution, which wasn't happening with other connections that I use. Someone's mentioned the high quality of Virgin Media's broadband. This I definitely agree with. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Fiesty Fawn Formally Freed for Future fetching !
On Thu, 2007-04-19 at 18:08 +0100, Terence Simpson wrote: the main ubuntu mirrors are under a lot of strain with all the people upgrading/downloading feisty, so another mirror may let you upgrade. And, like I said, the automatic upgrade is already out. Might have been an idea to distribute the links for the torrents for Feisty. I started trying to get hold of it from early morning. No joy...but, then again, no rush! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] NVU
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 12:04 +0100, Tony Arnold wrote: TheVeech wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 11:48 +0100, Tony Arnold wrote: Dave Walker wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 08:22 +0100, Tony Arnold wrote: baz wrote: SNIP Any idea why NVU is not in the repositories for Feisty? SNIP It's been dropped from the repositories as it is Umaintained by upstream.[1] It hasn't been updated since 28-06-2005 however there is an unofficial bug-fix release called KompoZer[2], but that hasn't been updated since 2006-07-26. [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=393065 [2] http://kompozer.net/ That's a shame, I liked NVU! I'll have to look for a different html editor now. Everyone seems to rave about Bluefish, but it's not WYSIWYG so far as I can tell. Screem (http://www.screem.org/) is an excellent editor. You don't really need WYSIWYG, since it's easy to check things in your browser. In fact Screem's that good that I don't know why more people don't promote it. Bluefish is okay, but I'd choose Screem every time - there's nothing to stop you using/trying both. That appears not to have been touched since 2nd November 2005, at least according to its project page on sourceforge. What has always irritated me in some editors is the difficulty of removing or changing existing tags, and sometimes adding an opening and closing tag around an existing piece of text. Maybe I've just never figured it out, but this was dead easy in NVU. I'll keep playing! Quality isn't inevitably tied to the frequency of release dates! Bluefish appears to have been marketed better (they've got a little icon, anyway), but Screem's more efficient, according to its site. I tend to use both Bluefish and Screem, but default to the latter because I prefer the working environment. They're both good programs, though, so it pretty much boils down to horses for courses. Whatever editor you use, you'll come to depend upon some of its features. For any that you find lacking in a new app, you'll just work around them easily enough I'm sure. I never tried NVU because I was under the impression that it was aping Dreamweaver and I was never that keen on WYSIWYG because you tend to lose some control over your work. It's a good way to learn at first, though. Using these editors (Screem/Bluefish), you'll soon get the hang of them, and you should improve your coding, too. Be adventurous! These editors are a lot easier and more enjoyable to use than they seem at first. There are other alternatives (some quite twinky), but Bluefish and Screem are good, solid apps that do the job. If you do try both (and I'd recommend this), use them for a while and post your impressions. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] nvu
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 16:55 +0100, Tony Arnold wrote: Alan, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 02:48:55PM +0100, baz wrote: According to their faq Nvu is still active: http://www.nvu.com/faq.php#active Not really. Depends how you read it I guess. He is not developing nvu any more, but has started a whole new editor as I understand it. Which will be the next generation HTML editor as he puts it. I still don't really understand why it has been dropped from the repositories for Feisty. Any idea where I can find out how and when the decision was taken? Dunno but, AFAIK, it's buggy and hasn't been fixed. If that's the reason for dropping it, I wish they'd drop that piece of rubbish that is gFTP. Put this under significant load and it's crashing all over the place. Nightmare program. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] gFTP
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 17:31 +0100, norman wrote: I have been trying to use gFTP with no success. It seems very prone to crashing. Could some kind person suggest any other software that I should use. Look at that! Yes, gFTP is a nightmare unless you're only shifting minimal amounts of data (unless they've fixed it since I last looked). Nautilus is okay. I've heard good things about FileZilla, and there's extensions available for Firefox. HTH. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] nvu
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 18:05 +0100, alan c wrote: Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 02:48:55PM +0100, baz wrote: According to their faq Nvu is still active: http://www.nvu.com/faq.php#active Not really. Depends how you read it I guess. He is not developing nvu any more, but has started a whole new editor as I understand it. Which will be the next generation HTML editor as he puts it. from http://forum.nvudev.org/index.php?sid=9d8045fe438f36ab67901175d16aaf3b 'KompoZer, the unofficial bug-fix temporary upgrade to Nvu until the next version of Nvu is released.' Never quite understood this approach. If the people behind NVU can't be bothered to fix it, make it clear that KompoZer is a fork and exists in its own right, develop it accordingly and leave all this NVU 'official'/'unofficial' business behind. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] gFTP
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 18:31 +0100, Lee Tambiah wrote: Strange I find Gftp to be reliable, I have no major issues with it. It can keel over if lots of data is pushed at once, but I usually find this with many ftp clients. You can try FileZilla but I think it's currently in beta (although it seems to work well). http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=21558package_id=206762 You will need to compile from source, I installed it once but preferred Gftp. Regards Lee On 4/18/07, TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 17:31 +0100, norman wrote: I have been trying to use gFTP with no success. It seems very prone to crashing. Could some kind person suggest any other software that I should use. Look at that! Yes, gFTP is a nightmare unless you're only shifting minimal amounts of data (unless they've fixed it since I last looked). Nautilus is okay. I've heard good things about FileZilla, and there's extensions available for Firefox. HTH. I've had a similar debate over at the forums. I've yet to come across an FTP app as unreliable as it, though. Some people like gFTP, others don't. Amazingly, some people claim they don't get problems with shifting a lot of data. Can't see it myself. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] The Latest Wireless
On Tue, 2007-04-17 at 11:41 +0100, Chris Wright wrote: I'm just starting to appreciate this. It's ten times better than being stuck indoors, plus I won't suffer from geek pastiness for much longer! I work from home, so getting with the recent sun and warmth, working outside in the middle of the coutryside has it's benefits. (Apart from last week when the farmer went round and dumped several hundred tons of manure in the field 4ft from my back fence). I had to stay up all night on Sat-Sun. During Sunday, outside, I felt pretty normal; indoors, I started falling asleep and losing concentration. I'm sure there's a lesson there somewhere! As for your farmer, I noticed there was a great atmosphere with the weather at first then, for some reason, people started getting stroppy and irate, with road rage and car crashes happening all over the place. We're never happy, us lot! I did expect to find that mood repeated in forums, but didn't. I could do voip and video conf at least 100ft away from the router with the new aerial. I bought one, but I must have just got a dud. Netgear have had a problem with dud's according to a few posts I've read on their forums. I thought this was down to the new aerial, rather than the router, but I've also had to send someone's Netgear router back recently. Even so, I just prefer their kit to their competitors', as you next comments support. The new 'N' apart from having the new as yet unreleased standard (or non-ratified), also has an internal antennae. (In fact it has 2 or 3 internal antennas). With these, I don't use the external (and can't because there is no connection). Wireless range has improved with the N despite the lack of external antennae Is improved range with an 'N' card in your laptop too, or just using 'b'/'g'? It's with the b/g. Actually, despite buying the damn 'N' version, I don't have any cards that actually support it. That's excellent news. I've redirected my router's aerial to face the garden, but I'm still getting a signal throughout the house. I'd just be nice to have a stronger signal and go even further away from the aerial, so a new router's definitely on my wish list. As a side note on the range, my neighbour has been having problems with his current DLink dropping his sons XBox connection all the time, but he could see my Netgear, so I added him and now he connects via me. Must be at least 4 walls and 100ft plus. Don't know what the quality of his connection is like, but it's rock solid. (His son doesn't play online gaming, just uses it for mail and stuff occasionally). 100ft + !?! That sorts out the connection issues. I've just got a new power reel and am getting some outside points sorted out, so that'll be the power done. Then the issues will be how to improve the screen image in very bright conditions and how to protect against the possibility of my neighbours getting carried away with their hosepipes! Tough life! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] upgrade to Fiesty
Stating the obvious, I know, but just a word of warning: I've had updates to a new release fail miserably, so be sure to back up your data beforehand in case the short cut turns out to be anything but. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Firefox and BBC video clips
On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 22:01 +0100, alan c wrote: alan c wrote: In both kubuntu 6.06 and 6.10 (different machines) I am getting problems with Firefox and bbc video clips. I believe the existing configuration was mplayer (plugin) with FF but from my present experiences I am only getting any success at all after removing mplayer, (re) installing realplayer and for good measure (re)installing firefox. The video clips then play ok in realpayer as a separate player, and not integral in FF. Is something happening with bbc or the apps, (or not) that I have missed? I am still not able to play bbc video clips, using either firefox or konquerer (kubuntu 6.06, also 6.10). Is anyone finding they can play stuff from bbc please? It might give me some clues? I get sound, but no picture, either with realplayer or mplayer apparently. If it worked ok in the past - great, buut when it does not work there is a lot to sort through and I am struggling. (it is getting desperate here - not that I watch bbc video much 0 but I needed to this evening. After efforts and lack of success anywhere, in desperation I turned on a windows machine and used it. I have not done that in a couple of years. Pretty sad) tia -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Try (in Terminal): sudo apt-get install totem-xine -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] The Latest Wireless
On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 00:48 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 12:33:56AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Yes, I generally set the channel to a non-default one. My neighbours are using a Netgear, too, so I'm hoping they didn't have the same idea. You are best off scanning to find out what your neighbours are using:- [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ iwlist eth1 scanning | grep Channel Channel:5 Then change yours to be 1, 5, 9 or 13 - obviously not the same as they are on :) See this for detail. http://www.ja.net/services/publications/techsheets/063-overlapping-channel-problem-v2.pdf Superb. Cheers, Al! Cheers, Al. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Spread Ubuntu
On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 01:07 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 03:02:48PM +0100, Rob Stent wrote: If you have any comments or suggestions about the site I'd love to hear them. I do occasionally check this list but if possible I'd prefer comments to be made on the forum. I don't see why you have a forum there really. In my opinion if it's an Ubuntu based project it should use ubuntuforums - the already very successful, high profile forum system. Expecting people to keep up with *yet* *another* forum is possibly misguided. Why not ask the ubuntuforums admins for a forum to be created for you on their site and leverage their site visitors and infrastructure? I'd echo this. Even though we'd all love to have popular forums on our own space, the convenience of having them all in one place would make an individual one more likely to succeed. Besides, most people know their way around the UbuntuForums. My only other reservation would be the URL. '.co.uk' is fine for me, but may get others thinking that it's specifically for UK folk. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 18:09 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: TheVeech wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 17:15 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: TheVeech wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: [...] Can you post the torrent link for alternate i386 on the 19th :) Hello, Veech. Nope, you'll just have to make do with the 'old' one from 2nd March :-| http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-5/feisty-alternate-i386.iso.torrent What, there's not going to be a Feisty Final torrent?!?!?!?? Personally, I use 6.06.1 LTS, because I'm fed up of fixing 'bleeding' edge releases when I'm trying to use Linux for my research work. I've got it on my laptop too, so I learn about 6.06.1 while I play :-) Yes, I wouldn't mess about with new releases if I was doing critical work on my machine either. Because I'm not, though, I'm freed up to muck around in the sandpit of new releases to see which direction the distro is heading in and what the new toys are. That said, once you've got things set up, that's that, and Feisty then isn't a million miles away from 6.06. I got my fingers badly burned using the 6.06.1 'backports 'repository recently, so I don't do that anymore - It seemed such a good idea! LOL. I've heard people lauding the wonders of this and that repository, but I try to avoid all that. I learnt the hard way when I started out, trying anything and everything I could. Good way to learn, bad for stability when you want to use your computer for actually doing things...like, er, work! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] 64bit Ubuntu
Anyone know the state of this these days? I tried to install it on a machine a while back and the PC just wouldn't have it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 64bit Ubuntu
On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 12:28 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: TheVeech wrote: Anyone know the state of this these days? I tried to install it on a machine a while back and the PC just wouldn't have it. WFM using 6.06.1 LTS for the AMD64 :-) LOL Had it running on my HP Pavilion dv-5000 until recently, but I'm now running the 32-bit version because I'm using it to develop 'biobuntu': http://nbx1.nugo.org The 32-bit version was okay on a 64-bit machine? This I didn't know. The machine I was trying to install it on was a Medion someone had picked up from Staples, against my advice, but they needed the finance deal. Please note, the 'biobuntu' link is broken just now, because my last iso image wouldn't allow you to login! - It's still a work in progress :-) Anyone else interested in using Ubuntu for bioinformatics? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 64bit Ubuntu
On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 12:21 +0100, James Tait wrote: TheVeech wrote: Anyone know the state of this these days? I tried to install it on a machine a while back and the PC just wouldn't have it. I've been running it on my laptop since Breezy. I'm currently running Feisty beta. There are some issues with non-free software, such as Flash plug-in and Skype, not being available in 64-bit versions, but you can run the 32-bit versions if you have the appropriate 32-bit libraries installed and/or (as I have) set up a 32-bit chroot. Also, I may be wrong but I think there are a few packages that aren't available in the AMD64 version. Hope that helps, Yes it does. Thanks. JT -- ---+ James Tait, BSc|xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmer and Free Software advocate | VoIP: +44 (0)870 490 2407 ---+ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] The Latest Wireless
What's the latest in wireless that's available on Ubuntu? I'm using 'b' 'g', but what's the state of play with 'n'/'pre-n'? If that's currently a no-go, any tips for extending existing coverage (Netgear wireless router)? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] The Latest Wireless
On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 17:30 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 05:17:22PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: If that's currently a no-go, any tips for extending existing coverage (Netgear wireless router)? A big aerial? Knock down some walls? Bingo! LOL. Well, I did get a bigger aerial, but it hardly upped the signal at all. It didn't help that it was a cheap job with seductive numbers off ebay. I'll have a look for a better one. For indoors, the aerial (at the back of the house) is pointed in the direction of the centre of the house, and it works pretty well inside. It just means I'll have to reposition it for outdoors. That said, I'm still picking up a signal that's doing the job outside as it is, but I'm greedy and want to sit at the bottom of the garden just for the Hell of it! Move the access point nearer the middle of the building? For winter, I'll do this but for now I'll point it outside. This weather's something else! Thanks Al. Cheers, Al. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] The Latest Wireless
On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 17:41 +0100, Chris Wright wrote: TheVeech wrote: What's the latest in wireless that's available on Ubuntu? I'm using 'b' 'g', but what's the state of play with 'n'/'pre-n'? If that's currently a no-go, any tips for extending existing coverage (Netgear wireless router)? I had the DG834GT but recently replaced it with the DG834N (after the GT went up in smoke). The GT is the one I had with a new aerial. At the moment, I'm trying to extend the cable version. I changed the antennae on the GT to an external 'high gain' and that helped. The router was in the front room of my house, and the kids PC's which were all upstairs would connect no problem. After the change, I could see my neighbours network. I could also get decent connection at the end of my yard (which meant working at home on Sunny days lounging in the yard was a lot easier). I'm just starting to appreciate this. It's ten times better than being stuck indoors, plus I won't suffer from geek pastiness for much longer! I could do voip and video conf at least 100ft away from the router with the new aerial. I bought one, but I must have just got a dud. The new 'N' apart from having the new as yet unreleased standard (or non-ratified), also has an internal antennae. (In fact it has 2 or 3 internal antennas). With these, I don't use the external (and can't because there is no connection). Wireless range has improved with the N despite the lack of external antennae Is improved range with an 'N' card in your laptop too, or just using 'b'/'g'? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] gaim problem
On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 21:02 +0100, Neil Greenwood wrote: I use Gaim under Dapper and Edgy (Dapper at home - soon to be Feisty, Edgy in work) and I can't get it to connect to Google Talk. I can get Psi to connect on the same machine, so it's not a problem with firewall or other settings... I saw in the forums that someone had fixed the problem by compiling Gaim from source, but it didn't WFM. :-( Haven't tried it for about 5-6 weeks though. I only connect to MSN through a Jabber gateway on Psi these days. This is always a bit hit-and-miss about marking me on/offline. In sympathy for that tune (!) I just tested setting up my gmail account for Gaim, and it says it's working. You might diss me for this because you've probably come across it already, but these are the instructions I used: http://www.google.com/support/talk/bin/answer.py?answer=24073 --- Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I was using a connection that kept throwing up an 'Error while performing operation: Welcome response error: transaction failed' message in Evolution whenever I tried to post. Any ideas? --- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] The Latest Wireless
On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 23:13 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 08:22:26PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: For indoors, the aerial (at the back of the house) is pointed in the direction of the centre of the house, and it works pretty well inside. It just means I'll have to reposition it for outdoors. Pointed in the direction of? You mean the end of the aerial points towards where you expect to get best coverage? This may be sub-optimal. As I understand it the signal pattern from most domestic antennas on access points is toroidal - a doughnut spanning outwards from the antenna itself. To get the best coverage you should have the antenna either upright or horizontal, depending on the orientation of the antenna at the other end. Bloody Hell. You've given me a right headache now. Just kidding, thanks. This gives me some options for experimenting. Move the access point nearer the middle of the building? For winter, I'll do this but for now I'll point it outside. This weather's something else! The other thing to think about is the channel you are using. Make sure your neighbours aren't using the same channel or any channel two up or down from the one you're on. if they are, move the channel you're using to minimise interference. Yes, I generally set the channel to a non-default one. My neighbours are using a Netgear, too, so I'm hoping they didn't have the same idea. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] GetGNULinux.Org
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:57 +0100, Jim Kissel wrote: Toby Smithe wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:30 +0100, Jim Kissel wrote: Every time I get sucked into this debate, I reflect back that John Q. Public/Joe Sixpack calls it Linux. You may not like it, and probably don't, but that's not going to change the general public's mind as to it's proper name. ...but we should educate the public to the error of their ways and perhaps we should, but remember that it is a difficult job to teach a pig to sing, and it annoys the pig. Oh yes, and I also just call it Linux. Or Ubuntu. So do I, but some people at the local LUG have taken exception to it. Even worse, I once commented to the effect that Ubuntu was the same/similar to Debian. I got my head handed to me on a platter for that one, but oddly enough Ian Murdock thinks that Ubuntu-Debian are the same. I do consider Ubuntu to be Debian Ian Murdock, Linux Format, LXF92 May 2007. I've lost count of the amount of ill-informed statements that cry freedom while, on further analysis, unwittingly act against it. If someone like Stallman was someone I passionately disagreed with, I'd probably characterise him in my own mind as a jerk. At times he behaves like a spoilt brat. But he represents some sort of counterweight against many of the 'common sense' notions that fly around at times. Whether it's called GNU/Linux or Linux isn't important to me. What is, is that people are at least aware of why his contributions are often so important. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: That kind of implies that there are no learned rules or etiquette on the other systems. This clearly isn't the case. There is etiquette on the mailing list (preference for bottom posting, stripping and quoting correctly) and there would be on Skype (for example) too. If you held a meeting on Skype for example and I came online with Jono Bacon Style music blearing out in the background you'd disconnect me (either due to the content or presentation :) ). Etiquette and learned rules are things that people just have to damn well learn or they become difficult to tolerate in a community. This has nothing to do with mailing lists, forums, irc, skype or any other technology, but it's about people. People having respect for other members of their community. This is one of those areas where people mean well but tend to get carried away with their emotions and prejudices. First off, what are my weaknesses? I'm British. I live within British culture and am heavily influenced by its ideas. From an early age (up until my late-teens/early twenties) I've been schooled to value and respect inequality. The main media organisation here - the BBC - has as part of its role being one of the engines of consent, with a damn good track record, consenting to the British 'way of life' by default, which is tied in with notions of inequality. In my everyday life offline, then, I'm exposed to messages of inequality in a way that my nation has successfully sustained for centuries. However, online, and in my total exposure to media, I'm exposed - or have easy access to - different ideas in a way that's unparallelled in the history of my nation. I'm pulled in two directions. But my everyday life is lived offline and exerts the greater influence over my thinking. Therefore, inequality plays a greater part in my life than equality. IMHO, to properly understand freedoms, codes and the like, I need to understand the detailed debate about equality, not just the stuff you find from an individual school of thought, or in the 'deep and meaningful' mags. I don't, my culture doesn't prioritise it and my weakness is being unable to properly address freedom and conduct well enough to be able to make decisions on other people's content. I can't be a censor for them because I haven't got the authority and shouldn't have. That doesn't stop me from researching and debating such issues, but it does suggest that my arguments aren't inevitably comprehensive or watertight. My limited view is that there's a whole host of issues involved in censorship and regulation: power, authority, legitimacy, ideology, Zeitgeist, etc., etc. That's one of the reasons that in your post you sound to me like an authoritarian dad who's overtired and has to try to impose his will upon his charges because he hasn't got whatever authority he thought he had. The problems seem to come when a select few 'decide' to become everyone's official censor! There's an echo of your sentiments in the debate going on about blogs and codes that's been instigated by an emotive event that is heavily influencing the agenda and the conclusions being reached. It's a pretty bizarre story, but entirely of its time. You seem to be calling for some sort of official code. That in itself is ideological and against the way some people think of the Net. What's also problematic is that codes are wide open to abuse both in formation and implementation and for your idea to be practical, you'd have to have sufficient mechanisms in place to safeguard against abuse, as well as uphold its 'laws'. I'd be surprised if anyone on this list has the background, experience and knowledge to adequately undertake that task. Go back nearly 10 years. The anti-democratic tendency in British society then was to quash dissenting voices. However, one of the most dissenting voices came from an unusual quarter and went against all the embarrassing and irrational social pressures at that time. Rupert Murdoch, asked if he made any mistakes about the coverage of a British Princess, merely said that he paid the paparazzi too much! Shock, horror! But no backlash. Why? This smashed to pieces the 'rules' of conduct that were then in play, so there should have been a sufficiently emotive response. There were two simple reasons why there wasn't: the bad logic at the time couldn't sustain a rational argument against this entirely valid response or cope with it exposing crucial issues. Secondly, and more importantly, Murdoch was more powerful than the opposing voices against him (who, incidentally, are supposed to uphold the freedom of the press). That's the problem with your ideas about codes: they're subject to key influences, some of which you might not be aware of. They're also likely to put off people who don't particularly like the idea that someone somewhere can have some official role in so haphazardly declaring on
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 16:29 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: The British masses started to shout successfully for themselves after living in the trenches in the 14-18 war, and more so after the 39-45 war. Let's not put the clock back. No, lets. History's crucial. You wouldn't be thinking some of the things you think or living in the world you're in without the brashness of a scientist in the past century who had a healthy disrespect for others. What happened 10 years ago is significant because we thought we were thoroughly above such things then. Had we really learnt the lessons of history Britain wouldn't have been vulnerable to such anti-democratic tendencies that are always pending the conditions of their reemergence (remember, some people had their houses trashed for having the 'wrong' opinions while people were laying down teddy bears at Kensington Palace!). Today some of our politicians make similar mistakes in relation to the Middle East that are more akin to certain states in the 30s and 40s than our idealised view of ourselves (also don't forget that not everything is clear cut: great as he was, Churchill was an establishment figure who believed wholeheartedly in eugenics). Who does the military even today have to swear allegiance to? It ain't me and you, Robin. I don't believe in God or blue blood. Whatever happened in those Wars didn't change who the military swears that allegiance to or adequately address the fundamental faultlines in British society. Linux inclines towards freedoms that extend beyond 'free of cost', so for some to understand the wider issues is important (maybe people from other cultures are more equipped to debate such things than us), and history's got a role in that if for nothing else than to highlight the fact that we're in a historical period that is influenced by selected histories and will be superseded. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 17:15 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: TheVeech wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: That kind of implies that there are no learned rules or etiquette on the [...] This is one of those areas where people mean well but tend to get carried away with their emotions and prejudices. [...] I've been around mailing list for a long time, and nothing disappoints me more than the enthusiasm with which people take up OTT arguments on lists like this: It's usually about renaming the list, or what the list 'policy' is about OTT threads, or if the list should be moderated and all sorts of other unimportant side issues that have little to do with the reason the list was created for in the first place, which is to be read by people with a common interest in the topic the list is about. FWIW, I think TheVeech is right: You don't have to read any of this and if you don't want to then don't. My criticism is that most of us don't want quite such a detailed explanation of what is self evident. We just want to talk to each other about Ubuntu, so let's do a bit more of that. Point taken. Can you post the torrent link for alternate i386 on the 19th :) Best wishes, Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rowett Research Institute, |http://www.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, | phone:+44 (0)1224 712751 Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK.| fax:+44 (0)1224 716687 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Novell adverts
On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 11:21 +0100, gord wrote: On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 10:56 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote: Your average user isn't to bothered about how something works, they just want it to have spangly flashy whizzy buttons and a cool reputation. It'd be a great idea if Ubuntu was to set up a site where users could contribute videos to advertise Ubuntu - like mozilla did with http://www.firefoxflicks.com Chris did firefoxflicks really promote firefox all that much? or did it just preach to the converted. There's always Epiphany ;) personally i'm of the opinion that we don't need to convince 'your average user', your average user uses what comes pre-installed on their computer when they buy it from PC-world or.. wherever it is the cool kids get their pc's from these days, the people that need convincing are the small business leaders, government/education leaders and distributes. Them, too. But more users mean more eyeballs, which should lead to a better community along with everything that that entails. Sure we can target institutions and organisations, but most of us are better equipped to be able to influence things at a grassroots level. E.g. I don't want my family and friends using junk software and systems, so I make sure they know they've got a choice (without harassing them with over-enthusiastic advocacy!) and I offer to help if they want to switch to Linux. Most everyday computer users don't really understand the FLOSS world or how it could benefit them. They also don't prioritise tech info in their lives, which puts the onus on us a bit (assuming we want new users, that is). It'd be great if we could promote more work at a grassroots level, using word-of-mouth more effectively and offering installation help to users where needed and where practical (even though Feisty seems to be addressing much of that). Because people usually don't know much about the alternatives on offer, to me that's a failing of the mainstream media, which most people use. So the onus is on us, as well as the marketers, perhaps? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Sun, 2007-04-01 at 10:05 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: I personally am happy, for the moment, to stand on the side lines of the exotic discussions that go on because they are sampling what may happen to me in the future (providing my thickie problems are solved for me when I ask for help). This is a great way of increasing your knowledge and for getting an idea for how to contribute to the collective wisdom. But to someone coming fresh to the computer world, who are potentially the vast majority, the exotic discussions could be very discouraging. Possibly the dedicated telephone support would be taken up more enthusiastically by the average poor communicator. After all we all have to start by asking if the power is switched on at the wall. Online, the support's nearly always out there, but it's getting all sorts of new people knowing it's there, how to find it, and make the most of it, that might need looking in to. Complexity can be relative. Ubuntu itself can be as complicated as you want it to be - I've had people telling me that they prefer Windows because Linux is too simple! Likewise with support areas - there's so many options to choose from that you can find an area that's more at your current level. But I appreciate that part of the problem is getting there in the first place. There's also the issue of people who don't have online access at all. You've got experience with documentation, so you might have something important to say about this. The beauty of having a Linux for Seniors initiative is that it would almost certainly include many people at different levels of competence, but with a better overall appreciation of the specific issues that its members can face (I've found, for example, that TuxPaint is THE killer app for grandparents!). It's also another option for tapping into the knowledge and skills set that this group has, but which may be felt to have little value in IT (e.g. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a place for the skills and experience you're putting into your methodology paper). Getting to such an initiative is another matter - which is why I answered Caroline Ford's post. Those experienced in how other groups work would probably have something constructive to say about how people could go about this. When I've got some more spare time, I'll put out some feelers. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 11:21 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 11:05:21AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: I don't know if it's done at the moment, but I wouldn't mind paying subs (say something like £10 a quarter) to contribute to events, a half-yearly magazine, etc. that's more targeted to LUG members and attractive to a wider audience of users? I'd like meeting people in my area, but I'd also like to be able to meet up with people from further afield for debates and functions, and so on. Funny you should mention that. I suspect that in the future LUG.org.uk may start asking for donations for the running of the service, but that's by no means guaranteed. If they did it might also make sense to use some/all of that money to go towards FLOSS projects. I'd be happy to pay subs, especially if I got something like a car badge or a mug (!) - but I think I'd want the bulk of the money to go towards UK LUG activities and increasing the profile of the site and the organisation. This has been discussed over pints numerous times in the past, but LUG.org.uk have been lucky most times having people donate physical hardware or money to cover the cost of hosting etc. Perhaps hardware and hosting could be covered by subs, donations or maybe some promotional drive? Harass some organisations into donating server equipment? Sponsorship? At least something like this should bring LUGs working together a bit more? Indeed. More ideas welcome! Very shortly a new server and new website should be going into lug.org.uk which should help to foster better inter-LUG communication and collaboration, but any further suggestions are always welcome. In fact I'll be running a BoF (Birds Of a Feather) session at LUGRadio Live 2007 to talk about this more and get more ideas from people. I don't know if this is workable, but maybe if things like LUGRadio were incorporated into the LUG.org.uk site, people would find it easier to have a one-stop place for Linux in the UK? With such a centralised approach, I think the many heads involved in the currently separate initiatives could share the burden of things like hardware and hosting and produce a pretty impressive site. At the moment, things seem to be spread out a bit thinly, and might benefit from being brought together, with a compelling features that are as relevant to mainstream users as to existing LUG members? That way, the site may become one of those that people want to visit frequently. It may be a way to increase membership, too. Maybe we could borrow from the world of politics and have something like a national body alongside the local branches (if there isn't already one)? As for keeping news and features current and interesting, I'm sure the different LUGs could maintain a constant supply of news and features - which would be another incentive for these LUGs to make things happen? Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Google does it again...
On Sun, 2007-04-01 at 09:51 +0100, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote: Yet another stunner from Google: http://www.google.com/tisp/ It was only a matter of slime. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 11:24 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: On 3/30/07, TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 20:54 +0100, Caroline Ford wrote: Anyway - we seem to have more women active than there are in Ubuntu-UK (!) so we must be doing something right.. There's also a women's forum at Ubuntu Forums. Someone posted here, mentioning that they were of a certain age group, and it got me thinking. I tried to follow up on doing something along the lines of Linux for Seniors (a US term, I know, but...), did a search and found very little in this area, bar a talk by someone from a US LUG. There are at least two entirely different oldie categories - those who have had prePC experience and those who have nil computer experience., even little or no keyboard exposure. The main problem I personally find is a lack of memory for even simple sequencies, and it's getting steadily worse. Being on pension one lives in fear of fouling up (soft or hard damage) the machine and having to get someone in, expensively. This is why thickie support from the Ubuntu community is so essential. You're not alone. One of my friends had a stroke a few years back. Consequently, his memory's very poor - the equivalent of about 128 meg of RAM by today's standards! I'm convinced that if you had some sort of forum that's more likely to appreciate the context of the challenges you face with your computing, you'd become less 'thickie' faster, not least because you'd benefit from, and be able to contribute to, its collective wisdom. I'm a bit disappointed with the apparent lack of any follow-up on this. I'll keep an eye out for people who might want to chase it up. I don't know about you, but the seniors I know would love to have this option. I could be wrong but we seem to cover sex, religion and some occupations, but do nothing in this area. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu Emag
Thought it might be of interest that someone who reads the list is trying to get a new initiative off the ground: a Ubuntu 'emag'. http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=396003 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu Emag
On Sat, 2007-03-31 at 22:09 +0100, TheVeech wrote: Thought it might be of interest that someone who reads the list is trying to get a new initiative off the ground: a Ubuntu 'emag'. http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=396003 Whoops! Got the names mixed up. He is British, though, so might especially appreciate some support from these here parts. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dell Linux Survey (until 23rd March)
On Thu, 2007-03-29 at 21:42 +0100, Freddie Ruddick wrote: Nothing particularly new, but I notice the BBC have covered it. [0]. Freddie :) [0]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6506027.stm I read this, too. I didn't take part in the survey, but I have nagged Dell quite a lot in the past. Whenever people ask me to get them a PC, I choose Dell (for laptops, Thinkpads are good, but over-priced, IMHO), and offer to install Linux on it (when you've just spent a small fortune on a machine, you don't want to be breaking the bank on software). I've never had a response from Dell, but I think they've been pretty savvy here. -- Yesterday it worked. Today it is not working. Windows is like that. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Thu, 2007-03-29 at 01:35 +0100, Pete Ryland wrote: On 28/03/07, Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 08:17:39PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Any national events? A friend of mine organised a national install day a few years ago and I think his current opinion is never again. It's like herding cats. Each LUG has its own agenda, own way of doing things. They rarely agree on anything. If the LUGMaster list is anything to go by they never will. UKUUG kind of caters for national Linux interests - not surprising considering some of its organizers work for Linux-based companies. It is more aimed at professional Unix types, but they have a yearly Linux conference which is normally very good. There's also the Lugradio event (which our own Jono B obviously has quite a big hand in) which I believe will be happening every year. This is a free (IIRC) event with a great mix of fun and energetic talks, social time, and stall information. I don't know if it's done at the moment, but I wouldn't mind paying subs (say something like £10 a quarter) to contribute to events, a half-yearly magazine, etc. that's more targeted to LUG members and attractive to a wider audience of users? I'd like meeting people in my area, but I'd also like to be able to meet up with people from further afield for debates and functions, and so on. At least something like this should bring LUGs working together a bit more? Pete -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Thu, 2007-03-29 at 08:50 +0100, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote: Quoting TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are way to many people (and this isn't specicially directed at you) in the UK standing by looking on saying that LUG is dead without actually getting off their arse and doing something about it. IMHO. You're right, though, and this has been my approach to LUGs. If the LUG really is dead, with the LUGMaster AWOL you can ask to take it over and if the members agree that's a good thing then off you go. I'll make them an offer they can't refuse. Just kidding. I'm no administrator, but it's worth looking into, if it is on its last legs. plug type=shameless href=http://www.thanet.lug.org.uk; It's worth giving it a poke. I gave Thanet LUG a poke before christmas, took over the running from the previous owner (who appeared to have disappeared off the face of the planet!) restarted the website (it's crap, but there we go!) and we had a meeting a few months back at which 6 people turned up and we're looking to have another meeting soon. I've attempted to document some of the steps I've taken in setting the LUG up on the blog on the website (very web 2.0!) so that may help you. /plug Thanks. Would it be helpful to have some national site, with articles from the different LUG sites? If I manage to get in touch with mine, I'd like to be able to keep abreast more of the developments and experiences of different groups. Cheers, Matt -- Matthew Macdonald-Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodies? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 12:47 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 11:17:39AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Would it be helpful to have some national site, with articles from the different LUG sites? If I manage to get in touch with mine, I'd like to be able to keep abreast more of the developments and experiences of different groups. lug.org.uk will have this in the new site. Right. I've just read up some more on LUGRadio - I'll engage my brain before my keyboard next time! :O| Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Open Officce
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 18:36 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: A problem has developed in Draw whereby the points command does not raise the points menu, so while I can move the pints (default) I cannot delete or insert points. I'm using a compaq 386 laptop and there is 2.6mb free, Help please I don't use Draw myself, but you might get some success at the OpenOffice.org support site: http://support.openoffice.org/index.html I know this will be a bit overwhelming, but many of the downloadable documents available won't fit in the space you've got left on your drive. HTH -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 20:47 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 08:28:08PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: But where is it written that people who disagree have to go at it hammer and tongues or descend into personal animosity? No doubt most of us have been there, but at least some of us learn from it. 'Growing up' is what I think it's called? :) I can't claim to be an innocent party here. I have taken part in flame wars on numerous lists. I'm not proud of that, and I try to temper my reactions and delay my negative replies (or run them past someone else first) to reduce me doing that. Too many fragile egos in too many areas, methinks. Like you suggest, a good admin/chair should be able to steer disputes towards some sort of civilised and productive debate. Maturity should do the rest. Where exactly are you from and how long are you staying with us here on planet Earth? :) LOL. I've fallen into the trap of getting involved in flame wars, too. I haven't devoted much time to thinking about this, but I've got a sneaking feeling that an over emphasis on anti-MS advocacy allows such ideas and feelings linger and leak into conversations between Linux users. We've got a much more positive message than much of the tracts that I've come across. I'd love to get it where much of the time spent hammering MS was spent on our software and our users. Most of the time, I couldn't care less what some corporation is doing. My software and users are better than theirs, so that's that. We even drew up some guidelines:- http://hants.lug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MailingList/Tips Which I think are actually pretty damn good. Nobody reads them though, and those that do, many ignore it. Will read later. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 20:35 +0100, Stuart Parkington wrote: TheVeech wrote: I'd have thought they were a bit of a geekfest, not having been to one, but I'm probably way off the mark. Trouble is, the one for my neck of the woods is supposed to be active but its website hasn't been updated for a long time. These days, is it time better spent online? You don't say where you are. Worcestershire, although Birmingham is just as convenient. I'd even travel to London if necessary, seeing as though I've lived there, and could fit it in with a long weekend. Some areas have multiple LUGs, maybe one at the county level, and more at the City/Town level. I know Sussex has two, Hampshire has three LUGs, but often there is overlap between them. There is almost always co-operation between the LUGs, although in my opinion nowhere near enough of that. If your local LUG is dying, give it a poke on their mailing list, see what people have planned, and offer to help. Will do. I'm in Worcestershire and would be very happy to assist getting the Worcester LUG a little more active, it that is the one you were thinking of? I attempted the suggested 'poke' just before Christmas and got a little response. Unfortunately I've been snowed under since the New Year and thus have let the (very) small start I made melt away. We'll have to get in touch about this. I'll email you over the weekend. Stuart --- Linux #423936 Ubuntu #4500 --- IRC = Narrf | www.narrf.net --- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Novell adverts
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 10:57 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 09:53:17AM +0100, TheVeech wrote: There seems to be two models of support here: the one found primarily in the proprietary world and that found in the FLOSS one. I disagree. In the proprietary world you can pay for support or you can google, use forums, irc and so on. In the free world I outlined all the help-yourself methods, but I neglected to mention the pay-for methods - which *do* exist. This is essentially what I meant. I wasn't clear enough. There is a difference in emphasis, with more responsibility on users but within a community in the Linux world. That's how I see it, anyway. Something more substantial than a leaflet/insert/wallet is needed, since such methods wouldn't be enough to make people aware of how FLOSS support works in the first place and how to get good sources of it, not least because most people just want to just dive in and learn as they go along. A leaflet would just tell people where to go to get help if they need it. Not provide help specifically. We dont want to go through the expense of putting printed manuals in a retail box. Definitely, but I wasn't saying that. A CD of PDFs and screencasts, say, targeted at people who aren't that concerned about computing, caters to a section of people that we may be overlooking. This means that learning materials would have to be more immediately attractive to a wider audience. For example, a good set of screencasts, arranged well, would stand a better chance than textual documentation. A supplementary CD, packed with instructive media, might be the way to do it (to also compensate for people without net connections). Well we have a screencast team and a big list of screencasts we would love people to make! If they could be supplied on a DVD with the Ubuntu CD/DVD that would be great. Especially so if people could watch it on their telly whilst they install/update/work/play. I suppose that's an idea, but I know more about printed materials. It wouldn't be tough to do some PDFs that compliment any screencasts, though, and if you think a video CD idea is workable, I don't think I'd be alone in being more than willing to offer feedback and input. Something else this highlights is that I, for one, didn't know about this screencast team. In fact, I don't know about many of the teams around Ubuntu. An instinctive response from within the confines of a community is that I should have found out if I'm talking about all this. Another possibility is to question how effectively the different aspects of Ubuntu is communicated to everyone in a way that they don't find boring. Screencasts are pretty helpful, and yet I'll bet that most users don't know they exist. Personally, I wouldn't mind churning out a few CDs like this, but only in the context of a scheme where a number of us also offer to do installs in our local areas, with new users covering pre-determined (and fair) costs like travel and CDs. I don't think it's time efficient for us to be visiting peoples houses/businesses individually as part of Ubuntu-UK to do that. If people want to do that off their own back that's great, and I know a number of small businesses and self employed people do this, which is great. You make it sound far more formal than it is. Besides, why not get a scheme going? It certainly doesn't have to be under the umbrella of Ubuntu-UK. A team comprised of people from different backgrounds would probably bring some fresh ideas to the table. Why don't I do it? I'm not an administrator and could do without things like office politics that you can sometimes find. How long does an install take when you know how to do it? A couple of soaps worth? Certainly not as long as a movie. At the moment, I do this and it isn't all that great - it's pretty easy. The time isn't so much spent with setting up the machine, but with setting up the user. A beginners' CD would save me and anyone else doing this lots of time and effort. One concern is just how prevalent is Ubuntu in the UK? I'd only be prepared to cover my district, but I've noticed that many LUGS work on a city and county basis. What would it take? 2-3 hours a week? Besides, these things are self-selecting, so it would depend on how much initial support could be had on whether it would be a productive move. The barrier, I think, isn't time, but social barriers - have we got the patience and absence of technical snobbery to be able to work with the public? Judging from the forums we have, but it isn't always like that. I would rather see new users not have to rely on the one person in their area, No, I'm talking only about the initial install. After that, the CD, then the resources it highlights. but use the tools and resources available. The support tracker, wiki and so on I have already mentioned. There's many people who won't get
Re: [ubuntu-uk] K3B
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 15:33 +0100, baz wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 15:20 +0100, Ian Davies (2) wrote: Hello, I have Ubuntu Edgy on a Sony Vaio laptop and I would like to install the K3B CD/DVD burning software- does anyone know if it’s available for Edgy? Yes it is, I've just installed it. Baz There's also Brasero, which is pretty basic, but does most things I ask of it: http://perso.orange.fr/bonfire/ (It's also in the repos. If you try it, try View File Browser) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Novell adverts
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 14:02 +0100, TheVeech wrote: Think how much more productive those hours would be answering questions online though? A few hours in #ubuntu or on the support tracker - or forums - could yield results that benefit so many people. I forgot to add that I will follow this up. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 16:14 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 03:53:13PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: Just curious. Anyone a member? If so, what's yours like? My local one is quite active. Well, there are two near me, Hampshire and Surrey. Hampshire meets every month on or near the first saturday in the month. We have two locations at opposite ends of the county to make it easy for people all over the place to attend. All our meets are bring a box / installfest style where people bring computers to have problems fixed, or show stuff off, or just socialise. We used to have pub meets on alternate months but these became less popular as people couldn't easily have a drink due to having to drive home, the size of Hampshire being an issue there - I am unlikely to drive 50 miles for a pint. Also people found it frustrating that they had to wait two months between meetings. Looking further down the line than I should, it might be an idea to liaise with some of the more successful ones to find out what works and what needs working on. The videoed talks, seminars, etc., approach is definitely something to learn from, if mine hasn't tried this. We have talks given at every meet - some long and in depth, more recently we're trying lightning talks of no more than about 5-10 mins. We video the talks and put them online in many formats, including uploading to google. http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=hampshire+linux+user+group Bookmarked. I'd have thought they were a bit of a geekfest, not having been to one, but I'm probably way off the mark. Trouble is, the one for my neck of the woods is supposed to be active but its website hasn't been updated for a long time. These days, is it time better spent online? You don't say where you are. Worcestershire, although Birmingham is just as convenient. I'd even travel to London if necessary, seeing as though I've lived there, and could fit it in with a long weekend. Some areas have multiple LUGs, maybe one at the county level, and more at the City/Town level. I know Sussex has two, Hampshire has three LUGs, but often there is overlap between them. There is almost always co-operation between the LUGs, although in my opinion nowhere near enough of that. If your local LUG is dying, give it a poke on their mailing list, see what people have planned, and offer to help. Will do. There are way to many people (and this isn't specicially directed at you) in the UK standing by looking on saying that LUG is dead without actually getting off their arse and doing something about it. IMHO. You're right, though, and this has been my approach to LUGs. If the LUG really is dead, with the LUGMaster AWOL you can ask to take it over and if the members agree that's a good thing then off you go. I'll make them an offer they can't refuse. Just kidding. I'm no administrator, but it's worth looking into, if it is on its last legs. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 16:35 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: TheVeech wrote: Just curious. Anyone a member? If so, what's yours like? I'd have thought they were a bit of a geekfest, not having been to one, but I'm probably way off the mark. Trouble is, the one for my neck of the woods is supposed to be active but its website hasn't been updated for a long time. These days, is it time better spent online? I subscribe to the AberLUG mailing list (Aberdeen) and I've found it quite useful. I've met up with a few people 1:1, but I don't attend the AberLUG meetings: A 'geekfest' sounds a rather judgmental! Don't be daft. Of course I'm not judgemental. There's nothing wrong with pointy ears (i.e. it's judgemental). I've found AberLUG members friendly, and willing to help anyone learn about Linux. This is what I'd be after. It sounds like it's a similar mood and approach to, say, the Ubuntu forums and the mailing lists, which I've found really impressive at times. I guess it's about making contact with like-minded people. I think far more people read the LUG lists than attend LUG meetings. However, the LUG meetings are what some Linux people want, so each to their own :-) I think I'd feel pretty comfortable in a crowd like that, but what about people who are still getting to grips with the 'basics' - would they benefit or would they feel a bit out of place? Best wishes, Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rowett Research Institute, |http://www.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, | phone:+44 (0)1224 712751 Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK.| fax:+44 (0)1224 716687 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 16:58 +0100, Colin McCarthy wrote: On 3/28/07, TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trouble is, the one for my neck of the woods is supposed to be active but its website hasn't been updated for a long time. What is your neck of the woods? I am a member of the Kent LUG and we are quiet active. It is great to 'physically' meet like minded people rather than just talk online. Sometimes our meetings are pure geekfests, but we love helping new converts and welcome new members to the group. That was my reception when I converted last year. This meeting people who are actually using Linux is great, but at the moment, in the offline world, I tend to only meet up with people who are essentially newbies. That's helpful in its way, but it's a bit restrictive for me and them. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 18:59 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: On 3/28/07, TheVeech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 16:35 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: TheVeech wrote: Just curious. Anyone a member? If so, what's yours like? I'd have thought they were a bit of a geekfest, not having been to one, but I'm probably way off the mark. Trouble is, the one for my neck of the woods is supposed to be active but its website hasn't been updated for a long time. These days, is it time better spent online? I subscribe to the AberLUG mailing list (Aberdeen) and I've found it quite useful. I've met up with a few people 1:1, but I don't attend the AberLUG meetings: A 'geekfest' sounds a rather judgmental! Don't be daft. Of course I'm not judgemental. There's nothing wrong with pointy ears (i.e. it's judgemental). I've found AberLUG members friendly, and willing to help anyone learn about Linux. This is what I'd be after. It sounds like it's a similar mood and approach to, say, the Ubuntu forums and the mailing lists, which I've found really impressive at times. I guess it's about making contact with like-minded people. I think far more people read the LUG lists than attend LUG meetings. However, the LUG meetings are what some Linux people want, so each to their own :-) I think I'd feel pretty comfortable in a crowd like that, but what about people who are still getting to grips with the 'basics' - would they benefit or would they feel a bit out of place? Not only am I trying to get to grips with the basics, I have no wish, for instance, to get involved with music. All I need is a decent word processer and drawing program like OO but stable (why isn't OO stable ?) and a few specific packages to meet passing needs, like a curvilinear graph drawing program with regression equations. These I expect to offload from the web via the desktop and not the command line. Much more than this just confuses. The sort of meeting talked about would merely be irrelevant and I would be angry if I was persuaded to travel a long way for it. You did highlight something I thought was worth pursuing, so I gave it a go last week. But it drew a blank online. This might be a reason to join a LUG to bounce ideas off people who know the scene better than I do and have a better understanding of what's 'doable' and what's not and where it's better to focus your energies. For me, after reading the posts here, meeting up with some folks in person at a LUG is a pretty exciting prospect. Best wishes, Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rowett Research Institute, |http://www.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, | phone:+44 (0)1224 712751 Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK.| fax:+44 (0)1224 716687 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 19:28 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 06:34:37PM +0100, TheVeech wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 16:35 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: TheVeech wrote: Just curious. Anyone a member? If so, what's yours like? I'd have thought they were a bit of a geekfest, not having been to one, but I'm probably way off the mark. Trouble is, the one for my neck of the woods is supposed to be active but its website hasn't been updated for a long time. These days, is it time better spent online? I subscribe to the AberLUG mailing list (Aberdeen) and I've found it quite useful. I've met up with a few people 1:1, but I don't attend the AberLUG meetings: A 'geekfest' sounds a rather judgmental! Don't be daft. Of course I'm not judgemental. There's nothing wrong with pointy ears (i.e. it's judgemental). Clearly via email I cannot detect a sense of humour here, so bear with me if this is badly dectected. :( Negative comments like this about LUGs by people who have not been to a meeting make me sad and a little cross. No worries. Seriously, I think most people's ideas of them are that they're a bit like a geekfest, something akin to a Star Trek convention (which also caricatures them!). That said, the people I know who are proficient with Linux could hardly be described as 'geek' types. Just laugh off things like this, call them daft and slip in the truth while you're at it. The reader-response studies I've come across are on your side. Besides, the facts speak for themselves, as you've already outlined and made everyone here aware of, if they didn't already know (neutralising the negativity of the caricature, IMHO). Another possibility is to find a way to address it, if it becomes an irritant. But if you think such things are bad, try sitting through '300'. Now THAT's bad! My local LUG meets are great fun. They are a tremendously social event with a lot of chat and general shooting the breeze. The tech stuff can get deep but it's not like you have to sit and talk to someone about the subtleties of one kernel config parameter over another, you can just go and talk to someone else if you're getting geeked at. I've found AberLUG members friendly, and willing to help anyone learn about Linux. This is what I'd be after. It sounds like it's a similar mood and approach to, say, the Ubuntu forums and the mailing lists, which I've found really impressive at times. Each LUG is different of course, some have pub meets, others meet in offices, universities of church halls. They all have their merits and often the locals like the way things run or they either wouldn't attend (sad, means low numbers in LUGs) or they instigate change (as Colin has done in Kent). You mentioned that there's some communication between LUGs - is there anything worthwhile where people can read up on them (so far, though, it's mainly people who are already members who are talking about them here)? Another query is if there's coordination for things like campaigns, events, etc.? I guess it's about making contact with like-minded people. I think far more people read the LUG lists than attend LUG meetings. However, the LUG meetings are what some Linux people want, so each to their own :-) As an example there are 178 members (not filtering duplicate addresses) on the Hampshire LUG list. At each meeting around 10-40 people turn up depending upon time of year, what talks are scheduled and who has broken stuff or gadgets to show off. Any national events? I think I'd feel pretty comfortable in a crowd like that, but what about people who are still getting to grips with the 'basics' - would they benefit or would they feel a bit out of place? We get complete newbies at our LUG. People have been known to just walk in off the street and ask for help. Others travel some distance to come. We have name badges on (mostly - unless we forget) showing the distro we know, and have someone sat at the door directing new people to a place to sit, where to get power and LAN, and who to talk to about specific issues. I'm not saying ours is the best run LUG, many would find the above awful, but it works for us. Other LUGs like meeting in a curry house or pub during the week and their members would never dream of actually giving up a weekend to go to geek-out. Being as enthusiastic as you are about this, you should think about doing some sort of feature on it. Each to their own I guess, but at least give them a chance :) You already have. I'm sold! Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LUGs
On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 20:10 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 07:31:04PM +0100, Rob Beard wrote: I'm a member of the Devon Cornwall LUG (or Devon Cornwall GLUG as it was renamed). Most of the time the members are helpful and there are some good discussions on there, occasionally there are flame wars though, one recently stemmed from the getgnulinux.org web site, it seemed that one of the members of the LUG didn't like the fact that Ubuntu was on the list of suggested distros because of the proprietary additions to Ubuntu. His response was that everyone should be running pure free software, like Gnusense. Every community has flame wars / disputs. Whether it's built around Linux, Windows, Toyota Supras, Cameras, Gardening or whatever. People have strong opinions and mailing lists are a great way to voice those opinions with little or no danger of someone punching you :) * LOL. But where is it written that people who disagree have to go at it hammer and tongues or descend into personal animosity? No doubt most of us have been there, but at least some of us learn from it. 'Growing up' is what I think it's called? Too many fragile egos in too many areas, methinks. Like you suggest, a good admin/chair should be able to steer disputes towards some sort of civilised and productive debate. Maturity should do the rest. HantsLUG have recently had heated debates about one distro vs another (debian/ubuntu in this case), open vs closed mailing list archives, windows vs Linux and so on. We have had people flounce off when they disagree with LUG policy or get annoyed with people. It happens unfortunately. So long as the list has a good admin or admins who can stamp on the flames when it gets out of hand, I suspect for the most part things go well. Cheers, Al * although I understand one prominent LUG had exactly that issue and is why there are now two LUGs in that locale. :S -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
