Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Ask the user/audience What do you want to do with your computer? Give me a particular task/function that you wish to perform!. Some bright spark will shout out Get it to make me a cup of tea or I wanna play Unreal Tournament but once you get a serious answer you can usually impress. Someone said to me, I'd like to do Computer Aided Design CAD, so I'd use a computer for that. You say, No problem, give me a couple of minutes. Go to Applications, Add/Remove, show all available applications and put CAD into the search field. A few seconds later you're rewarded with a few different CAD programs. Here you go you say, Now, watch how easy it is to install You tick the checkbox, follow the 'wizard' and low and behold you can launch the CAD software on the PC... When this works (and to be fair, I must admit I've not had a problem when I've tried this although it's usually on a one to one basis) people are mega impressed! Punctuate your talk (whilst going through the package manager) with comments like And of course we're not paying a penny for this software We don't have to perform any installation ourselves or worry about viruses, this software is all coming from a trusted respository Did you know that all of the software we get in this manner will get security updates along with the OS Let us know how you get on. Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Hello again, First off I'd like to thank everyone for the very useful replies - you help has not gone unnoticed. I've been put in touch with the teacher who is currently in charge of running some science lectures which have been running for a while. This would be a very useful link as she has some experience in organising shows and also it would be an easy way to attract people to come along and learn about ubuntu. Unfortunately there are two downfalls. A lot of people have come along to the science lectures for entertainment, and although I have thought quite a bit about it, short of concentrating a lot on the games you can get, there are few ways I can think of of including entertainment. The second is that it isn't exactly a science show, but I'm sure that won't make much difference. Some other good news is that when mentioning the possibility to someone two nearby ICT technicians overheard and would love to go. If anyone can think of any ideas of how to make a talk about an operating system more entertaining, I'd love to hear them. Otherwise, please keep the great hints coming in. Thanks again, Craig. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 20:25 +0100, Craig wrote: If anyone can think of any ideas of how to make a talk about an operating system more entertaining, I'd love to hear them. Otherwise, please keep the great hints coming in. I'd recommend taking a look at the screencasts, that might give you ideas for short illustrated talks. Also I think things like the multiple desktops, the cube etc are eye-catching - the cube is really just eye-candy, but I find the desktops really useful after a lifetime of clicking on the wrong taskbar tab in Windows! And of course when installing Ubuntu, you get more than an OS - all the basic software is there, ready to go. Dianne -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On 4/4/08, Dianne Reuby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And of course when installing Ubuntu, you get more than an OS - all the basic software is there, ready to go. I think that is a great selling feature of any modern Linux distro... I have just bought a new laptop which has Vista installed and I'm quite enjoying playing with the Office 2007 that is on it, as it's so weird in the way it works (strange tabs and things dropping down from the top), but it's only a 2 month trial. In the model that folks have been steered into accepting you buy a computer for £x and you then have to buy the software on top; Dreamweaver, Micro$oft Office, Photoshop and whatever all add to the cost... years ago you used to at least get some of this OEM, Office in particular, but no more... Microsoft Works (a sad attempt to persuade you by example that anything bundled is useless and MS Office is a wise investment) is about the best it gets. Breaking free of this model is the right of every man, woman and child in this country. Bill Gates has enough money already... good luck, young Skywalker... May The Force Be With You... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Richmond, Surrey I think... http://www.mall.richmond.sch.uk/ Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
This article about Mall School is good... http://www.linux.com/articles/48520 It's a shame they have to dual boot into Windows at all, but these things happen. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Saturday 29 March 2008 07:12:09 Sean Miller wrote: This article about Mall School is good... http://www.linux.com/articles/48520 It's a shame they have to dual boot into Windows at all, but these things happen. My daughter is starting school and I'm hoping I won't have to reinstall Windows just so we/she can read all the file formats they use. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Mark, Mark Fraser wrote: On Saturday 29 March 2008 07:12:09 Sean Miller wrote: This article about Mall School is good... http://www.linux.com/articles/48520 It's a shame they have to dual boot into Windows at all, but these things happen. My daughter is starting school and I'm hoping I won't have to reinstall Windows just so we/she can read all the file formats they use. If you do, you might want to consider using a VM technology such as VirtualBox or VMware to get an instance of Windows rather than dual boot. Regards, Tony. -- Tony Arnold, IT Security Coordinator, University of Manchester, IT Services Division, Kilburn Building, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL. T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED], H: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 06:12:51PM +, Tony Arnold wrote: If you do, you might want to consider using a VM technology such as VirtualBox or VMware to get an instance of Windows rather than dual boot. Another alternative is WINE, that way you may not need a copy of Windows at all. -- Gav Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://revford.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk I think we need to: Calibrate the stealth slot -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
I doubt the school would install anything so obscure you had to install windows to read it... software such as KOffice and OpenOffice seem quite able to cope with most things she'd be likely to use, unless she decides to learn ASP or something in which case I think she's her own worst enemy and should change schools rapidly. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Sean Miller wrote: I doubt the school would install anything so obscure you had to install windows to read it... software such as KOffice and OpenOffice seem quite able to cope with most things she'd be likely to use, unless she decides to learn ASP or something in which case I think she's her own worst enemy and should change schools rapidly. Publisher? Microsoft Works? Office 2007? You don't have to get too obscure! Regards, Tony. -- Tony Arnold, IT Security Coordinator, University of Manchester, IT Services Division, Kilburn Building, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL. T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED], H: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Saturday 29 March 2008 18:23:32 Gavin Ford wrote: On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 06:12:51PM +, Tony Arnold wrote: If you do, you might want to consider using a VM technology such as VirtualBox or VMware to get an instance of Windows rather than dual boot. Another alternative is WINE, that way you may not need a copy of Windows at all. My biggest concern at the moment from looking at http://www.huish.somerset.sch.uk/help.htm is their reliance on Textease Documents. I've tried running TeView under wine, but it doesn't work. -- Registered Linux User #466407 http://counter.li.org -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Saturday 29 March 2008 18:23:32 Gavin Ford wrote: On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 06:12:51PM +, Tony Arnold wrote: If you do, you might want to consider using a VM technology such as VirtualBox or VMware to get an instance of Windows rather than dual boot. Another alternative is WINE, that way you may not need a copy of Windows at all. My biggest concern at the moment from looking at http://www.huish.somerset.sch.uk/help.htm is their reliance on Textease Documents. I've tried running TeView under wine, but it doesn't work. Now there is a classic example of a teacher doing an IT Managers role... Just download and install all this junk so you can read our documents rather put it in an open format or just html -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Textease is stall around!? I havent heard it mentioned in YEARS!!! On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Mark Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 29 March 2008 18:23:32 Gavin Ford wrote: On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 06:12:51PM +, Tony Arnold wrote: If you do, you might want to consider using a VM technology such as VirtualBox or VMware to get an instance of Windows rather than dual boot. Another alternative is WINE, that way you may not need a copy of Windows at all. My biggest concern at the moment from looking at http://www.huish.somerset.sch.uk/help.htm is their reliance on Textease Documents. I've tried running TeView under wine, but it doesn't work. -- Registered Linux User #466407 http://counter.li.org -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Mr JE Grabham -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 20:11 +, Matt Jones wrote: Rob Beard wrote: The final thing I can think of is Moodle (which is included with Karoshi) which is a complete Virtual Learning Environment. It's free and runs on Ubuntu and most other flavours of Linux. I've had a bit of a play with it but not being an expert I'm not sure how well it would fit a schools needs, but as far as I know it is used in schools in this country and around the world. I've built a test Moodle server for a friend's wife who is being put in charge of IT at a primary school and she seems to think it would do the job. If you need any more help, feel free to drop me an e-mail either on the Ubuntu list or off list. Good luck. Rob Moodle is used quite extensively in various schools, and espescially colleges for their VLE's. For example, Hereford sixth form (A fine establishment) uses it. The usefulness depends on the content, Some subjects are really good, all information is put on there, which is very useful. Some subjects have very little documents on it, which can be annoying. This is what will happen with us. The science department have set up their own website (albeit free one you set up with wizards) which have all the homework on it, while the geography department are reluctant to take the register on their laptops and even use the overhead projectors. I would be interested to know if the whole thing loses its use when there are such a mix. I myself would probably be discouraged from looking at it if a lot of the subjects were unused. The college is pretty much an all MS system, xp on the desktop, with MS file servers, and an exchange email system for student email. Moodle is the only piece of open source. As far as I know, we haven't even bothered with Moodle. I'm still trying to remember the name of the VLE that was brought... I will see what has happened to the Moodle that was set up and find out why. The college uses a network based register system, I think it may be a custom system. I think if you contact your local LUG, an organised group can have more of an effect than an individual. I think this ties into the discussion about replacing XP, Most schools are running P4 class machines, nothing very fancy, but good solid systems for Linux, but not good enough to run vista comfortably. The cost of replacing 200+machines is not cheap even dealing in large quantities. I'm just off to do that now. The cost and low specs are obviously one of the things I will try to emphasise on. Any other information definately helps. I can't imagine how much money schools are going to waste on Vista, but very soon they won't have much of an option. Mj Thanks for the reply. As always it is greatly appreciated and extremely helpful. Am I spamming the mailing list replying separately or do you want me to put it all in one email? Tell me if I am... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 7:57 AM, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I spamming the mailing list replying separately or do you want me to put it all in one email? Tell me if I am... In my opinion, what you're doing is fine. It's better to answer emails in context. My only suggestion is to cut out some of the text of the email that you're replying to if it's not relevant to your reply (as I've done above). Good luck with convincing your school to switch. Hwyl, Neil. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
My daughter's college started using Moodle in an emergency, when a tutors work permit expired and she had teach them from Paris! Dianne On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 07:57 +, Craig wrote: As far as I know, we haven't even bothered with Moodle. I'm still trying to remember the name of the VLE that was brought... I will see what has happened to the Moodle that was set up and find out why. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Alistair Crust wrote: On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 21:30 +, Dianne Reuby wrote: Skegness Grammar use Linux - you can find their IT department case study of the advantages here: http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Skegness_Grammar snip and their contact details bellow, If you have any specific questions just mail me, on, or off-list and I'll do my best to reply. I can answer the more technical how do i configure questions where as my boss [EMAIL PROTECTED] can answer the political, curriculum and policy questions. Kind regards Hi Alistair, Is this offer open to everyone in the Ubuntu UK mailing list? I'm currently trying to help get Moodle (and hopefully after that an LTSP installation) into a school that a work colleague's wife has just been asked to cover ICT on, so any help with political things would be ideal. I have offered to try and help support them as best as I can (although I do have a day job too). I think even getting Moodle in the door would be a start for them. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Iain Lane wrote: Stephen O'Neill wrote: Dianne Reuby wrote: | So we need to emphasis the availability of paid support from Canonical | when selling to customers such as schools and small businesses. Good point. If someone walked into a job managing an Ubuntu network with only MS experience are there courses in the UK that bridge the knowledge gap? How odd. A school wouldn't expect to hire a teacher who couldn't teach, so why would it hire a network admin who can't run the software on its machines? If this is happening, then there is a problem with the hiring of technical staff who do not have the appropriate skillset. I do wonder if the previous technical staff have just left but not actually documented anything or advised what their job spec should include (i.e. Linux support experience). In that case it's probably likely that someone with just a Windows background would come in and want to get rid of everything (unless they're the type who are keen to learn about anything and everything). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Stephen O'Neill wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Iain Lane wrote: | How odd. A school wouldn't expect to hire a teacher who couldn't teach, | so why would it hire a network admin who can't run the software on its | machines? If this is happening, then there is a problem with the hiring | of technical staff who do not have the appropriate skillset. I hear that a number of network admins are teachers that fell into the role part time through a coincidence of knowing how to use a computer, not because of their being specialists. I imagine that it's only the larger schools that have budgets to staff the role full time, and I haven't personal experience of how they go about filling their positions. That's exactly the case where my friend's wife is concerned. She knows bits about IT but nothing too technical. Luckily her other half knows a bit more about IT and anything he doesn't understand he asks me :-) Of course I always put my (virtual) Ubuntu hat on and suggest doing things with Ubuntu (or some other Linux distro), even if it's on the backend systems. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Dianne Reuby wrote: On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 13:19 +, Stephen O'Neill wrote: I hear that a number of network admins are teachers that fell into the role part time through a coincidence of knowing how to use a computer, not because of their being specialists. I imagine that it's only the larger schools that have budgets to staff the role full time, and I haven't personal experience of how they go about filling their positions. Not so long ago I did a DTP course - the teacher couldn't help on a question I had, she was a maths teacher. Admin had said basically DTP is computers, computers do maths, therefore the maths dept will teach this evening class! Dianne That's really bad. I thought the teachers would at least have a say in it. When I was at secondary school the IT teacher taught a Pascal course (it was covering the basics of Pascal programming on RM Pascal). At least he knew what he was talking about (plus he inspired me into being a technician). Shame I lost touch with him, although if he's reading this, if I mention Lemmings and me being banned from the school network he might recognise my name. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On 25/03/2008, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, I have been an Ubuntu user for not very long (since around October) and have been amazed at the stability, compatibility and usability amongst many other things. I think it really shows what a community can do if they pull together - they can develop an operating system that (in my biased opinion) is better than that of a multi-billion pound company. I am 13 and go to Court Moor School in Hampshire. The school is very keen on getting the latest technology - virtual learning environments, computerised registration etc. Currently I am persuading various people around the school to switch to ubuntu. I have found quite a few people who would be interested in having someone who really knows what they're talking about to show them some of the features and the security they could use and some of the things included in edubuntu. Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? Craig. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Hi there Craig, I think Richmond School in North Yorkshire witched completely to Open Source. There was also stuff said in Parliament about the benefits of OS too - you might have to have a hunt for the info. Caroline -- --- London School of Puppetry www.londonschoolofpuppetry.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 22:48 +, London School of Puppetry wrote: Hi there Craig, I think Richmond School in North Yorkshire witched completely to Open Source. There was also stuff said in Parliament about the benefits of OS too - you might have to have a hunt for the info. I'd heard this but it doesn't appear to be Richmond North Yorkshire http://schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Mall_School,_Richmond Steve -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alistair Crust wrote: | They will not have to employ anyone else full time to | maintain it. If an automated update breaks something overnight then at 9am teachers are relying on the computers to deliver lessons then you need someone to be able to sort it out there and then. Outsourced support options may not always be able to provide this - particularly if you need onsite assistance in a remote area. I think that most schools would be wanting someone who could fix it very close by. - -- Stephen O'Neill w: http://www.thefloatingfrog.co.uk/ e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH65siJ+Auntu1v4QRAvLMAKCi2rLi/B6z7vhEOTH5+TqqawE3GwCfaovu 4CUaDM3a4ocitnL6qSEfNws= =oyrX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 13:03 +, Stephen O'Neill wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alistair Crust wrote: | They will not have to employ anyone else full time to | maintain it. If an automated update breaks something overnight then at 9am teachers are relying on the computers to deliver lessons then you need someone to be able to sort it out there and then. Outsourced support options may not always be able to provide this - particularly if you need onsite assistance in a remote area. I think that most schools would be wanting someone who could fix it very close by. Most things can be fixed remotely, of course there are some things that can't. In that instance would it not be feasible for the person (who we have already established normally can follow bullet pointed instruction on a que sheet) who is responsible for co-ordinating ict to follow instructions over the phone from someone who knows how to fix it. You don't have to understand why your typing things but the tech support on the other end of the phone does. For hardware failure it makes no odds what OS or system your running you'd still need someone able to physically install equipment or (less technical) know how to place an order for a replacement. This doesn't need to be an expert, just someone who is clever enough to follow instructions and hold a telephone. In my opinion the biggest challenge in adoption is the political reasoning not technical reasoning. There is always some company pushing there own agenda, selling licenses, more licenses, premium phone support for buggy software, more licenses, upgraded hardware after x years, etc and there will be teachers and management that just blindly accept the norm, the spin, advertising and hidden agendas without looking at the technical merits of something different. Just because its different does it make it technically inferior.. no. In the same breath, just because its proprietary and the norm does it make it inferior... no. But we as taxpayers and tax spenders have a responsibility to look at all the options available, and should not be forcing pupils to use any one particular vendor. Kind regards -- Alistair Crust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator Skegness Grammar School Vernon Road Skegness Lincs PE252QS Tel: 0175461 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Alistair Crust wrote: options available, and should not be forcing pupils to use any one particular vendor. I really think that is the key - rather than trying to push Linux on schools, we should be trying to push the whole concept of cross-platform computing and open standards. Although wasting taxpayer's money on Microsoft is bad, it is even worse that pupils, particularly those from low income backgrounds, should be forced to use Microsoft products at home in order to be compatible with those at school. Frankly I think it should be against the law for schools or universities to insist on submission of work in any closed source format. OpenOffice, as I've mentioned, is a great place to start. The GIMP is another. Linux Format did a good article on how to cure people of their Microsoft addiction a few issues back; one of the main things they recommended, was to start by encouraging the use of cross-platform FOSS on existing installations of MS Windows, as this would then provide an argument-free migration path to Linux, BSD, Mac or whatever. -- Andrew Oakley -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Mac wrote: snip those who care more about education than about shaping the labour market Not 'the labour market', of course, but 'the workforce'. Mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mac wrote: | the parts of Local | Authorities that used to be called the Local Education Authority have | been merged with what used to be children's social services into | entities called Children's Services Authorities whose remit goes way | beyond education, Cheers Mac - my understanding doesn't come first hand hence my misinterpretations. | But that's not Craig's main problem. The continuing difficulty for free | software in education is the unquestioned acceptance that M$ software is | the de-facto standard that employers will expect young people to use. Another issue I have heard mentioned is that we have come across some schools who have had network managers that decided to install Linux... but then they left and the person who took over didn't know how to manage it. They then called in outside help, they scratched their heads and ripped it out and stuck MS in. So manuals/training etc are very important if the installations are to become permanent and not a pet project of the current manager. - -- Stephen O'Neill w: http://www.thefloatingfrog.co.uk/ e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6gTqJ+Auntu1v4QRAl9VAKCBRbKyalyUxgAE0BgssGs3vCiOoACdGlPe 1kclKIjJltiUohuzVLPYkmA= =ohT0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dianne Reuby wrote: | So we need to emphasis the availability of paid support from Canonical | when selling to customers such as schools and small businesses. Good point. If someone walked into a job managing an Ubuntu network with only MS experience are there courses in the UK that bridge the knowledge gap? - -- Stephen O'Neill w: http://www.thefloatingfrog.co.uk/ e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6gtWJ+Auntu1v4QRAkXmAJ4lLRDq5ellNfbgrCSNmfgJBV6rlACcDQ6/ OdN/7SkYj2qp8oU0hXhAg+s= =Ww1L -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 21:43 +, James Grabham wrote: Skegness. Grammar School... eh... XD On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Dianne Reuby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Skegness Grammar use Linux - you can find their IT department case study of the advantages here: http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Skegness_Grammar Dianne On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 17:04 +, Craig wrote: Hello everyone, I have been an Ubuntu user for not very long (since around October) and have been amazed at the stability, compatibility and usability amongst many other things. I think it really shows what a community can do if they pull together - they can develop an operating system that (in my biased opinion) is better than that of a multi-billion pound company. I am 13 and go to Court Moor School in Hampshire. The school is very keen on getting the latest technology - virtual learning environments, computerised registration etc. Currently I am persuading various people around the school to switch to ubuntu. I have found quite a few people who would be interested in having someone who really knows what they're talking about to show them some of the features and the security they could use and some of the things included in edubuntu. Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? Craig. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Mr JE Grabham to give it it's new title 'The' Skegness Grammar School lol although I fail to see what difference the The makes. ;-) Kind regards -- Alistair Crust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator Skegness Grammar School Vernon Road Skegness Lincs PE252QS Tel: 0175461 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? James Grabham wrote: Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA unfortunately. James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. Let's hope so! Craig Welcome! I think your wish to do something for software freedom for your school and its students is admirable. It'll take some hard work; and you'll need to be prepared to persevere despite set backs and lack of interest. You're going to have to persuade your head of IT, who'll need to sell the idea of a switch to free software to the head teacher and senior management team. You might start by getting your mates interested in Ubuntu, and doing things with their own computers that you can all show off to your IT teachers. And you might then try letting your teachers know that BECTA recommends schools to consider free software seriously: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?RSSentryid=616 and http://publications.becta.org.uk/display.cfm?resID=35275page=1835 (especially paragraphs 6:15 and 6:17) Very best wishes for the success of your efforts. But remember the main thing first of all is for you to have fun getting really good at using Ubuntu! Mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 20:00 +, Mac wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? James Grabham wrote: Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA unfortunately. James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. Let's hope so! Craig Welcome! I think your wish to do something for software freedom for your school and its students is admirable. It'll take some hard work; and you'll need to be prepared to persevere despite set backs and lack of interest. You're going to have to persuade your head of IT, who'll need to sell the idea of a switch to free software to the head teacher and senior management team. That could be interesting. Although I am actually not too sure who the head of ICT is, if it's who I think it is I think she is pretty adamant I am some malicious hacker intent on messing up the school network with viruses. Then again, she might have got over it, and she probably isn't head of IT. You might start by getting your mates interested in Ubuntu, and doing things with their own computers that you can all show off to your IT teachers. I can assure you I have done those - I even managed to get my Mac friend to give ubuntu a go. I was absolutely amazed when he came in the next day, reluctantly admitting that ubuntu wasn't all that bad! I have two others as well, one in the process of getting a new laptop, leaving the old one free for ubuntu, the other still 'negotiating' with his Dad. And you might then try letting your teachers know that BECTA recommends schools to consider free software seriously: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?RSSentryid=616 and http://publications.becta.org.uk/display.cfm?resID=35275page=1835 (especially paragraphs 6:15 and 6:17) Very best wishes for the success of your efforts. But remember the main thing first of all is for you to have fun getting really good at using Ubuntu! Mac Thanks for the help and advice! Craig -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mac wrote: | James Grabham wrote: | Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA | unfortunately. | | James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions | these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education | Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple | of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. | Let's hope so! LEAs are now known as LAs - Local Authorities, but they're basically the ~ same thing as far as I know. What seems to be happening more and more is that the LA will assess and collectively bargain (put out to tender) with companies for provision of products and services. Schools then have the option to use or not to use them. However, the schools face problems if they decide not to - lots of paperwork, political friction with the LA etc etc - so they must really want to stray from LA policy. Tenders are the wheels of things like BSF (Building Schools for the Future) projects etc. And, as others have mentioned, whatever you implement locally will need to be compatible with the LAs own systems. You may have success in getting Linux adopted on for the VLE, but then you've got all the desktops, various other bits of MS encumbered software, admin systems (SIMS, CMIS etc)... If your network manager is skillful then she'll be able to get Linux on the desktops without needing to change the network infrastructure which will almost certainly comprise of ISA server and Active Directory. Good luck! The company I work for sells into schools and I am very frustrated that we sell more and more MS into them all the time. - -- Stephen O'Neill w: http://www.thefloatingfrog.co.uk/ e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6W5TJ+Auntu1v4QRAm2ZAJoDmkUBPQ2sn4xYRvtYxlTatJf/fQCfcnht mDKfBgDLPtZNUOuynvMlQYE= =kwqG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Skegness Grammar use Linux - you can find their IT department case study of the advantages here: http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Skegness_Grammar Dianne On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 17:04 +, Craig wrote: Hello everyone, I have been an Ubuntu user for not very long (since around October) and have been amazed at the stability, compatibility and usability amongst many other things. I think it really shows what a community can do if they pull together - they can develop an operating system that (in my biased opinion) is better than that of a multi-billion pound company. I am 13 and go to Court Moor School in Hampshire. The school is very keen on getting the latest technology - virtual learning environments, computerised registration etc. Currently I am persuading various people around the school to switch to ubuntu. I have found quite a few people who would be interested in having someone who really knows what they're talking about to show them some of the features and the security they could use and some of the things included in edubuntu. Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? Craig. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Skegness. Grammar School... eh... XD On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Dianne Reuby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Skegness Grammar use Linux - you can find their IT department case study of the advantages here: http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Skegness_Grammar Dianne On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 17:04 +, Craig wrote: Hello everyone, I have been an Ubuntu user for not very long (since around October) and have been amazed at the stability, compatibility and usability amongst many other things. I think it really shows what a community can do if they pull together - they can develop an operating system that (in my biased opinion) is better than that of a multi-billion pound company. I am 13 and go to Court Moor School in Hampshire. The school is very keen on getting the latest technology - virtual learning environments, computerised registration etc. Currently I am persuading various people around the school to switch to ubuntu. I have found quite a few people who would be interested in having someone who really knows what they're talking about to show them some of the features and the security they could use and some of the things included in edubuntu. Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? Craig. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Mr JE Grabham -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Stephen O'Neill wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mac wrote: | James Grabham wrote: | Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA | unfortunately. | | James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions | these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education | Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple | of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. | Let's hope so! LEAs are now known as LAs - Local Authorities, but they're basically the ~ same thing as far as I know. Briefly, and at the risk of straying off topic, the parts of Local Authorities that used to be called the Local Education Authority have been merged with what used to be children's social services into entities called Children's Services Authorities whose remit goes way beyond education, in respect of which the main functions have become on the one hand strategic and on the other inspectorial (mainly through oversight of School Improvement Partners who work directly with schools on school's own development agendas). Schools, under the government's New Relationship with Schools policies, are very much their own masters, and manage their own budgets; though they may, if they wish, buy services offered by various parts of Local Authorities. But that's not Craig's main problem. The continuing difficulty for free software in education is the unquestioned acceptance that M$ software is the de-facto standard that employers will expect young people to use. At the highest level in IT in the Local Authority where I work (not in IT but in the education bit of Children's Services) the mere mention of Linux is immediately dismissed with ill-disguised derision. But that's the corporate organisation. Individual schools up and down the country are taking their own decisions about free software. Not many. But enough for the adventurous and far-sighted and those who care more about education than about shaping the labour market not to feel entirely alone. And the Vista debacle, the cost of upgrading hardware to run Vista and Office 2007, and the Danegeld schools must go on paying to Microsoft, are all factors that are starting to cause financial managers to challenge their IT colleagues to consider alternaives - as the BECTA report, too, enjoins them to do. Phew. End of rant. But my hope is with young men like Craig, who have a sense of the significance of Ubuntu and other free software at a time in their lives when not being told what to do - by teachers, parents, Bill Gates, or anyone else - matters enough for them to find ways of being their own people. More power to you, Craig! Mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Rob Beard wrote: The final thing I can think of is Moodle (which is included with Karoshi) which is a complete Virtual Learning Environment. It's free and runs on Ubuntu and most other flavours of Linux. I've had a bit of a play with it but not being an expert I'm not sure how well it would fit a schools needs, but as far as I know it is used in schools in this country and around the world. My old school use Moodle as a VLE with great success, other schools in the area paid quite a bit of cash for software which was not nearly as good as Moodle and they were all mostly in awe. It must be said it was running off the back of Win 2k server and IIS5. This is in a very much Microsoft institution, although we did make use of other OSS programmes but not as many as I wanted. Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
