date:20061004



On Oct 4, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:


As you can see, I redirect the output of a shell command to a text
file, then have a loop that keeps checking until the file is there.


Cool.  I have tried the &, but without success.  I think I must not  
have been redirecting to a file or things changed since long ago.


BTW, the original problem was tcpdump, so I assume a dialog or at  
least processing output as it comes might be needed.


Dar

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Re: OT: RSS Feeds and aggrevators :)

2006-10-04 Thread Ken Ray

On 10/4/06 8:57 PM, "Andre Garzia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ken Rays XML Lib is nice for RSS and he is also bundling RSS routines
> with the package!!!

Thanks for the plug, Andre!

Here's the info for anyone who's interested:

XML Library:
  http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/xmllib/xmllib.htm

RSS Plugin for the XML Library:
  http://www.sonsothunder.com/products/xmllib/xmllib_rssplugin.htm


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Swindell

Sorry.  I understood you to mean that these were substacks of a  
mainstack (part of the same project), not related stacks residing in  
other folders/directories.   If you didn't have the path right, how  
was your main stack opening them in the first place, but then not  
closing itself?


Mark

On Oct 4, 2006, at 2:29 PM, Gordon Shimizu wrote:

Thanks for this Mark, but it just didn't do it.  Apparently, I need  
to find
the correct pathway from my main directory stack to my subdirectory  
stacks

then to my individual topic stacks.


On 10/4/06 12:23 PM, "Mark Swindell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Try this:

on mouseUp
open stack mySubStack
close stack myMainStack
end mouseUp

Mark




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Re: Testing for numerics

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Smith


I think this can be simpler:

return (pValue is an integer) AND (pValue >= 0)

Obviously, if it's an integer, it's also a number, and in this  
context it might be better to avoid 'trunc' since in some  
circumstances, (there is a thread from a while back about this) trunc  
returns a non-integer result.


I'm still not clear on whether zero is positive, though, especially  
since we can have -0 and +0 apparently, though being mathematically  
unsophisticated I'd have thought them equal, except to a dumb computer!


Best,

Mark

On 5 Oct 2006, at 01:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


function  isPositiveInteger pValue
return (pValue is a number) AND (pValue  >=0) AND (trunc(pValue) 
=pValue)

end isPositiveInteger


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Re: Testing for numerics

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Smith

Robert, though this has nothing to do with type-checking, you can  
initialise variables to whatever you like when you declare them, so


global gAGlobal = empty
local aLocal = null

Best,

Mark

On 5 Oct 2006, at 08:47, Robert Sneidar wrote:

I think this underscores the need for REAL type checking. I was  
told that a positive integer would return true if "is a date" is used.


As easy as non-typed variables are, it often becomes necessary to  
check for such things. I for one would like to be able to have the  
option of having new global variables initialized with NULL or  
UNDEFINED or something, so that I can check for the first time  
initialization of said variables. Maybe there could be an addition  
to the global/local variable declaration so that if you include an  
arguement and the variable is undefined as of yet, it will  
initialize the variable with your arguement as in:


global bobtest "NULL"

If bobtest already exists it will leave it as is, but if not it  
will initialize it with the string "NULL" or whatever you tell it to.


 if only I ruled the world...

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM



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Re: OT: RSS Feeds and aggrevators :)


David,

Ken Rays XML Lib is nice for RSS and he is also bundling RSS routines  
with the package!!!


I think the netnewswire is the best aggregator out there it's fairly  
easy to write your own. The podcast thing is also just RSS + enclosures.


Andre
On Oct 4, 2006, at 10:38 PM, David Bovill wrote:

I am doing some research nto RSS aggregators. I thought the whole  
thing
would have been sorted by now - but I cannot find any really good  
links.
Does anyone have any good bookmarks to add to my research? I am  
wandering if
there is a role for a speacialist service written in Transcript, or  
whether

to use another language.

Ruslan - how is the XML side of Valentina coming along? I guess  
that would

be a nice backend for such a service no :)
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OT: RSS Feeds and aggrevators :)

2006-10-04 Thread David Bovill


I am doing some research nto RSS aggregators. I thought the whole thing
would have been sorted by now - but I cannot find any really good links.
Does anyone have any good bookmarks to add to my research? I am wandering if
there is a role for a speacialist service written in Transcript, or whether
to use another language.

Ruslan - how is the XML side of Valentina coming along? I guess that would
be a nice backend for such a service no :)
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Re: shell vs. process


In Revolution, which function is better for calling a long-running
external process and reading data from the process in a non-blocking
format, for instance, streaming the output from tcpdump into a text
display?

Looking at the docs, it appears that "process" is what I want, but I saw
something that says that "open process" on OS X is only useful for
launching applications...not launching background command-line processes
and reading their output to stdout as one would expect to do on a
Unix-style platform. Since I am targeting OS X, I need to know how
others handle this.



Getting to this thread a bit late, but here is how I do a ping without
blocking anything else. It is very quick if the ping is successful,
but it's the failure delay that has to be allowed for.

**
on mouseUp
   put checkPing("www.garbageaddress.com")
end mouseUp

function checkPing pIP
   put specialFolderPath("Desktop") & "/ping.txt" into tFileName
   if there is a file tFileName then delete file tFileName

   put "ping -c1 -n "  & pIP into tShellCmd
   put " > " & tFileName & " 2>&1 &" after tShellCmd
   get shell(tShellCmd)

   put 0 into timeCheck
   repeat 50 times
   add 1 to timeCheck
   wait 1 tick with messages
   if there is a file tFileName then
   put URL ("file:" & tFileName) into tRes
   if tRes is empty then next repeat  -- file created but no result yet

   put wordOffset("loss", tRes) into tWord
   if tWord = 0 then next repeat -- file created but result
not complete

   -- if there is a file tFileName then delete file tFileName
   put word tWord-2 of tRes into tPercent
   if tPercent = "0%" then return true
   else return false
   end if
   end repeat

   if there is a file tFileName then delete file tFileName
   return false
end checkPing
**

As you can see, I redirect the output of a shell command to a text
file, then have a loop that keeps checking until the file is there.
Because the loop uses "wait with messages", it doesn't stop anything
else from happening. After that, I analyze the text in the file to see
how successful the ping was, before deleting the file.

Depending on how long you would expect the command to take, you can
adjust the wait time inside the loop and the number of times the loop
happens.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread Tereza Snyder



On Oct 4, 2006, at 2:00 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:



The first way is to simply pass the full file path to the stack.  
You may not always know this in advance, but there are ways to  
calculate it. However, the easiest way is the second way, using  
relative file paths.





There is a related third way: using the "stackfiles" property. "The  
stackfiles" is a stack property, consisting of a list of stacknames  
and paths that Rev uses to find stacks that are referred to by name  
in handlers. In Hypercard, I believe, the stackfiles property was  
created and maintained by HyperCard itself, though it could be  
modified by scripts.


From the Rev docs:

When a handler or object refers to an object in a stack other than  
the current stack, Revolution checks all stacks that are loaded  
into memory (and their substacks) to find the referenced stack. If  
the stack cannot be found, Revolution checks the current stack's  
stackFiles property to locate the stack being referenced, and loads  
it into memory so that its properties and the objects in it can be  
used.



I do this: in my standalone stack startup sequence, my scripts get  
the files in a subdirectory in a defined relationship to my  
standalone, and from the file list the script creates a list of the  
stacks I find there, like this:


HEM_Version,/Volumes/Obovoid/TCSDEV/Projects/HFX/HEM/Resources/STK/ 
HEM_Version.rev
HEM_Startup,/Volumes/Obovoid/TCSDEV/Projects/HFX/HEM/Resources/STK/ 
HEM_Startup.rev
HEM_Main,/Volumes/Obovoid/TCSDEV/Projects/HFX/HEM/Resources/STK/ 
HEM_Main.rev
HEM_DEV,/Volumes/Obovoid/TCSDEV/Projects/HFX/HEM/Resources/STK/ 
HEM_DEV.rev


Then I set the stackfiles of my standalone stack to this list.  
Because the standalone stack is a "parent" stack to every stack in  
the application, its stackfiles property is available to every script  
in the application.


Since I always use the same name for my stacks and their filenames, I  
can be confident that when I use this in a script:


toplevel "HEM_Main"

the proper stack will be found and loaded.

I make this stackfiles list every time I start up the application, so  
the paths are always current. Another strategy might be to fill the  
stackfiles property once during development using relative paths. But  
that relies on having "the defaultfolder" correctly set at all times.  
Of course, I always restore the defaultfolder whenever I change it,  
but I like the belt and suspenders approach. Besides, doing it the  
full-path way would permit me to put stack files in more than one  
directory - application stacks and plugins maybe - and find them  
seamlessly in scripts.


Always another way...

t



--
Tereza Snyder

   Califex Software, Inc.
   www.califexsoftware.com
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Re: Testing for numerics

2006-10-04 Thread Robert Sneidar

I think this underscores the need for REAL type checking. I was told  
that a positive integer would return true if "is a date" is used.


As easy as non-typed variables are, it often becomes necessary to  
check for such things. I for one would like to be able to have the  
option of having new global variables initialized with NULL or  
UNDEFINED or something, so that I can check for the first time  
initialization of said variables. Maybe there could be an addition to  
the global/local variable declaration so that if you include an  
arguement and the variable is undefined as of yet, it will initialize  
the variable with your arguement as in:


global bobtest "NULL"

If bobtest already exists it will leave it as is, but if not it will  
initialize it with the string "NULL" or whatever you tell it to.


 if only I ruled the world...

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM



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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Jesse Sng



They are probably counting users of old versions also. I'm still on 
their mailing list and my old license going back to 2000 is still 
valid for upgrading so I think that makes me a Realbasic developer in 
their eyes.



Jesse
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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users


Andre wrote:

My little example is just a case where one can code a solution that  
will work nice, for a some kind of servers, for example a simple  
podcast broadcaster for your company intranet. It will be easier to  
code with threads then code it without it. I've been reading Python  
Networking Foundations and it has some keen solutions using threads  
and forks, I wish I could build stuff like that in Rev.


Since even "true" threading is merely an illusion, the question is not 
whether we can make the illusion real (we can't of course), but rather 
how we can make the illusion useful (as you noted, it can serve the 
programmer's convenience).


I wonder what might be done with a library to allow queuing of tasks and 
data discretely for similar convenience


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Threads (was [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users)



On Oct 4, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:


Threads we need.


Folks really want this?

Hmmm.

What kinds of things might be shared among threads?
Should a thread communicate with any threads other than its parent?

What kind of communication?
  "Do this and let me know when you are finished."
  "Do this, show progress, and let me know when you are finished."
  Bidirectional message queue.
  Send messages to a thread in 'send' style.

Just wondering.

Dar
--
**
Dar Scott
Dar Scott Consulting  and  Dar's Lab
8637 Horacio Place NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111

Lab, office, home:  +1 505 299 9497
Fax:call above first
Skype:  ask

http://www.swcp.com/dsc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Computer programming
**


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Re: Threading (was: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users)


Ian Wood wrote:


On 4 Oct 2006, at 23:04, Richard Gaskin wrote:


What sorts of tasks would threading be essential for?


Well, one thing that leaps to mind immediately - stopping the entire  
application freezing up when executing a lengthy shell script or  
AppleScript.


The operating system is already threaded.  This example doesn't 
necessarily require Rev to give us the overhead and complexity of 
running our own threads, merely to get notification of the completion of 
an OS thread.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Threading (was: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users)

2006-10-04 Thread Ian Wood


On 4 Oct 2006, at 23:04, Richard Gaskin wrote:


What sorts of tasks would threading be essential for?


Well, one thing that leaps to mind immediately - stopping the entire  
application freezing up when executing a lengthy shell script or  
AppleScript.


I know there are workarounds with shell scripts - piping the output  
to a text file and checking that in a loop - but for AppleScript your  
only current options involve running a separate application in the  
background. :-(


Ian
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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users


Ruslan,

Yes, I know that. I was just giving a naive example.  I never saw  
this ACE framework book, hope it is on safari bookshelf, this way I  
can read it online! :-)


I don't know much on how to make servers that can scale to thousand  
connections, nor I know much about semaphores and mutex and things  
that are used to coordinate threads and process forking. I know  
simple math and that making a new thread for each connection in a  
thousand connections scenario will nor scale. I think there some  
smart way to do this by probably multiplexing the threads making some  
maths and spawning a new thread when needed.


My little example is just a case where one can code a solution that  
will work nice, for a some kind of servers, for example a simple  
podcast broadcaster for your company intranet. It will be easier to  
code with threads then code it without it. I've been reading Python  
Networking Foundations and it has some keen solutions using threads  
and forks, I wish I could build stuff like that in Rev. I know that  
serving thousands concurrent connections is a task for a  
professional, someday I might be able to code such solutions!


 Thanks for the book references, I am looking for them now.

Andre
PS: I've read people complaining about the costs of switching  
contexts in a thread about parallel programming...


On Oct 4, 2006, at 7:36 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:


Andre, this is not best model.

If you going developer servers of any kind, I recommend you take a  
look on
ACE framework. Just read its docs. May be you will find useful buy  
2 books

of ACE main developer Douglas.

In short: if you want have 1000 connections, it is NOT good idea to  
have
1000 threads. BECAUSE your computer have one or e.g. 4 CPUs. And  
your 1000

threads start slow down a lots only on switch of context.

Exists other more effective models.


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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Luis


Ohh, threads... M.. Donuts... :)

I was thinking of this the other day, and an easy way to set this up  
would be to have the initial card background a different colour. All  
that run on the same thread run on the same colour card/stack (I'm  
still getting my mind around the naming conventions). Ok, the colour  
wouldn't show up in run mode, but during development. Or a little  
corner of the window displaying a number, the lower the number the  
higher the thread priority (this'd be cool for timing apps,  
especially to do with screen refreshes, if that get implemented): You  
could alter thread priority just like we do with the arrows to alter  
the card levels.


Cheers,

Luis.


On 4 Oct 2006, at 22:36, Andre Garzia wrote:


Peter,

Rev would also trigger your firewall due to RevOnline launching on  
startup (unless you disable it on the prefs). It's not phoning home  
but it's sure accessing a server. Thats why I hate this firewall  
softwares, it's all or nothing. In windows they go all jumpy. Now  
imaigine me. At a common day work I have maybe three or four ssh  
sessions, many stack tools acessing server, some standalones too


I was an RB user too. I moved out of their base because the first  
releases for Mac OS 10.1 were horrible. Thank God I found Rev.


What got me into Rev what the following line:

move this stack to the screenloc

When I first executed this on my first stack using Revolution  
Starter Kit from eons ago, man, I was smilling so much, it was so  
fun! I got the stack walking back and forth like a schizophrenic  
pong machine! And I thought: "maybe I can also code something  
useful out of it too..."


Now my only wish for Rev is NESTED ARRAYS AND THREADS! Sorry  
for the all caps, I get emotional over this topics... :-)


Andre

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:20 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

I'm a FORMER user of REALBasic.  I never used it for major  
(multimedia) development, like I do use Revolution now.   I guess  
I am still counted in the 100,000.


BTW, I fired up my RB 5.5 the other day and almost fell off my  
chair when the Windows firewall came up and told me it was trying  
to connect to the internet!  Why is RB connecting to the  
internet?  And what is it doing?  Why would it phone home?


Perhaps that is how they get their user count... it tells them  
every time you run it.


Peter aka RB User #1,354

At 01:24 PM 10/4/2006, you wrote:
In a press release  today,  
REALBasic
indicated its product now produces Universal Binaries, but I  
found it more
intriguing that they claim 100,000 users of their product. I  
can't believe
that's a real number but if it is, they have clearly been doing a  
lot of
growing in the past 12-18 months, probably at the expense of VB  
which has
driven its users away in droves with its stupid "take .NET or go  
away"

approach.

That would also mean they are *considerably* larger than I  
suspect RunRev is
(though RunRev, like most companies, doesn't reveal installed- 
base numbers).


--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588

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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Luis

Wouldn't the bug database be a rough (ok, VERY rough!) indicator? No,  
not the number of bugs  but the number of individual bug  
posters.
On it's plus side I have seen some neat plugins, and it does handle  
3D (well, in a fashion).


Cheers,

Luis.


On 4 Oct 2006, at 20:39, Ian Wood wrote:

And what got me started with Revolution? A free copy of 1.something  
on a MacUser UK cover disk... ;-)


Ian

On 4 Oct 2006, at 19:50, Mark Schonewille wrote:

4) They gave away a free RealBasic Lite for Mac with magazines, a  
few years ago.


Mark


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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Ruslan Zasukhin

On 10/5/06 1:13 AM, "Andre Garzia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> What sorts of tasks would threading be essential for?
>> 
> 
> Making servers
> 
> We need threads or fork(). Thats the only way to serve thousands of
> concurrent connections.

Andre, this is not best model.

If you going developer servers of any kind, I recommend you take a look on
ACE framework. Just read its docs. May be you will find useful buy 2 books
of ACE main developer Douglas.

In short: if you want have 1000 connections, it is NOT good idea to have
1000 threads. BECAUSE your computer have one or e.g. 4 CPUs. And your 1000
threads start slow down a lots only on switch of context.

Exists other more effective models.

> You create a simple server that can serve
> just one request. You pick every request create a new thread/fork and
> run that server with that request, even if it is a expensive request
> that will take long to work, it will not interrupt or harm the other
> request because each one is running on its own space.
> 
> You can't really work with queues and task lists when building a web
> server... I did that, but if something blocks, then the whole server
> blocks...

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]

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RE: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Lynn Fredricks

> I wonder what the 'paid' installed base for RB is? That all 
> said, I do believe the 100K number is a good marketing ploy. 
> It would make me more confident in a proprietary development product.
> 
> I wonder what Rev's (combined with MC's) total number of 
> downloads would be?
> 
> It seems if they could make a case for a large number (like 
> RB), then it might also help in the marketing spiel. After 
> all, I doubt Lynn will jump in with any sort of disclaimer if 
> Rev releases
> numbers--(waiting...)

RB has had the Linux freebie since it shipped; on the other hand, Rev
started to give away versions on cover disks many years before REAL started
this practice.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd

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RE: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Lynn Fredricks

> BTW, I fired up my RB 5.5 the other day and almost fell off 
> my chair when the Windows firewall came up and told me it was 
> trying to connect to the internet!  Why is RB connecting to 
> the internet?  And what is it doing?  Why would it phone home?

Some versions check to see if your subscription is still active or not.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd

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Re: Libraries, 'start using' and stacks


Dave Cragg wrote:
The stack doesn't have to be open before you "start using" it. You  
can "start using" a stack directly with a file reference. (start  
using stack "libsFolder/myLib.rev") When you start using a stack,  
it's open in the sense that it is loaded into memory. But it doesn't  
receive any openstack/opencard messages. Also, it isn't visible, but  
it can be made visible in the normal way. (show stack "myLibrary")


But there is one odd anomaly worth noting, and unfortunately my BZ 
request is unlocatable now (purged?) so I have to reproduce the 
discussion here:


There is a conflict between the "close" command and the "stop using" 
command with regard to stacks which have their destroyStack property set 
to true.


Everything you say above applies, but if your library has its 
destroyStack set to true and you open it to work on it, as long as it's 
open it's still in the message path but once you close the stack it also 
gets pulled from memory, and hence from the stacksInUse queue.


The question for the designer of the engine is whether "close" should 
also mean "...and remove from stacksInUse", or whether "close" should 
simply mean "close" and continue honoring the stacksInUse until a "stop 
using" command is issued.


For myself, the choice seems clear enough in favor of the latter, esp. 
given that the independence of "open"/"close" from "start using"/"stop 
using" is already well established by being able to insert stacks in the 
message path without needing to open them.


So my BZ request was to complete the separation of the two sets of 
actions by also allowing a stack to be closed without altering its place 
in the stacksInUse.


If others here agree I'll reinstate my BZ request.

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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Schonewille


Hi Gordon,

instead of the filename use the effective filename:

  get the effective filename of this stack

and then continue the script as Jacque posted it.

Best,

Mark

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Consultancy and Software Engineering
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Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 4-okt-2006, om 22:57 heeft Gordon Shimizu het volgende geschreven:


Hello Jacque,
Start the clock!  Please keep track of your time and I will send  
you billing

information for your services.

I tried this in various places (stack script, card script, and the  
button).
In the stack script location, it was in the openStack script.  It  
doesn't
make any sense to put it into the card or button script but I did  
it anyway

out of desperation (frustration!)

   get the filename of this stack -- path to your main directory  
stack

   set the itemDelimiter to slash -- all file paths use slashes
   put item 1 to -2 of it into theFolderPath -- negatives count  
from the

end of the string
   set the defaultfolder to it -- now the default folder location  
is set


I have the converted HC stacks in one dedicated folder. I guess I'm  
not

putting it in the right place in my main directory stack to go the
subdirectory stack and eventually to the specific topic stack.

Gordon


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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users



On Oct 4, 2006, at 7:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:



What sorts of tasks would threading be essential for?



Making servers

We need threads or fork(). Thats the only way to serve thousands of  
concurrent connections. You create a simple server that can serve  
just one request. You pick every request create a new thread/fork and  
run that server with that request, even if it is a expensive request  
that will take long to work, it will not interrupt or harm the other  
request because each one is running on its own space.


You can't really work with queues and task lists when building a web  
server... I did that, but if something blocks, then the whole server  
blocks...


Andre
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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users


Dan Shafer wrote:


Threads we need. Nested arrays we can simulate.


Was it H.L. Mencken who said "Arrays are the devil's playground"?

Okay, maybe not.

While I find threads intriguing, in practice I can't say I've had much 
of a need which was worth the debugging/maintenance overhead.  And in 
the rare cases where I need the illusion of concurrency (prior to 
multiprocessors threading was always just an illusion, and even with 
them there is still some overlap) I've found maintaining a queue of 
tasks to run at idle with "send in" to take care of my modest needs.


What sorts of tasks would threading be essential for?

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Kind-OT: cs books, lisp, threads and stuff (was Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users)


Dan,

yes, that much is true, anyone can simulate nested arrays. I've seen  
solutions for that poping on the list every now and then.


As for threads. Yes we need them, and hard if we want to build  
networked servers and fastcgi like daemons. I decided to use some of  
my time every week to learn more about computer sciences, as many on  
this list know, I have no formal education on this area except for  
two years of engineering which gave me only 60 hours of computer  
studies. Most of my coding is done in Rev, but I tend to think and  
design things in terms of scheme which is a "dialect" of lisp. I  
think in terms of lists and recursion and I really love scheme as  
much as I love Rev.


I picked a couple books to read that teach me more about programming,  
my first book which I am reading is Structure and Interpretation of  
Computer Programs (everybody seems to call it SICP) which is a  
wonderful book and then I'll move to some other scheme books. Why I  
am doing that when I code almost full time in Rev and almost zero  
time in Scheme? Because scheme is a very nice language to learn  
concepts that I can apply later using some other language, and  
because many of the book authors I like write books about CS using  
lisp/scheme as the language for the examples.


What I am missing in Rev is continuations, I've tried to build them  
but I can't. I know Dar Scott experiemented with some lambda-like  
constructs but I could not even reach that point. If I had  
continuations, I could save the state of a stack and its environment  
and be able to re-use that state case I need. One might ask where  
that is useful, and the answer is dead simple: Web Sessions. If we  
could save a stack state, like a debugger snapshot, then we could re- 
use it later, so we could save states for each web user and that  
would provide a very easy way to manage the sessions, because it  
would virtually need no management, just save the state when  
answering the request and restore it when receiving it. With  
something like that, we might even be able to do more useful web apps  
before we get thread support. Heck, we can even fake threads using  
such feature, save state, run one "thread", restore state, run "other  
thread". Using this snapshots we can implement co-routines which are  
always useful!!!


One way we could create a snapshot of the environment is by reading  
"the variableNames" and saving everybody. Just by that we would get a  
very easy session support. If we go further and examinate the  
pendingMessages, the stacksInUse, the OpenStacks, the backscripts and  
the frontscripts. Well, then we can have a wonderful session support.  
The problem is that there's no way to probe the variableNames by  
building a library, the thing must be hard-coded inside the handler  
it is used. We can't access the variables in memory at a given time.  
What I wanted to build is something that would make a code like this  
possible...


on someHandler
...
put sessionStore() into gUniqueID
...
end someHandler

on otherHandler
...
sessionRestore gUniqueID
...
## do stuff...
end otherhandler

And sessionStore would be able to get the variables running from  
someHandler. This is impossible, I don't know how the debugger does  
it but I can't code it, I've tried it. I have my own session library  
but it does not work like this in a way that would enable me to  
implement the things I want.


Right now, I keep building my own solutions to problems all web  
developers face. We can't take Ruby on Rails right now because we  
don't have threads. We can't take seaside because we don't have  
continuations (or futures or related technologies). We can build  
plain CGIs which is cool and very powerful, but if we want to move  
further we simply need some new things in the core revolution bag of  
tricks. I still dream of a Rev version where I can use the construct  
- send thisHandler to me in a new thread - but right now, we can't.  
My dream is to create something like Userland Frontier, but without  
threads or some other way to code around them, I simply can't


we also need more books... I learn code from books... I like them...  
specially Dans! :-D


Cheers
andre
PS: ... and now, I am coding scheduling functions on fastcgi so that  
I don't run into DDoS...



On Oct 4, 2006, at 6:39 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:


Andre.

Threads we need. Nested arrays we can simulate.

:-)

Dan


On 10/4/06, Andre Garzia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Now my only wish for Rev is NESTED ARRAYS AND THREADS! Sorry for
the all caps, I get emotional over this topics... :-)

Andre




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Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

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Re: Help with table fields and cell editing


I have a Rev 2.7.4 (build 291) PC interface for database editing that is in
great shape except for one feature, directly editing a list of points. It
seems to me that this should be a natural table field & cell editing task,
but I can not see how to make it work.

I have a group that contains a table field. The table field is not locked,
the "Table object" setting is checked, the "cREVTable(celle" box is checked
(cell editing), and the maximum editable column is set to 2. The tab stop is
less than half the width of the field, after subtracting the width of the
vertical scroll bar. Problems persist with or without a horizontal scroll
bar.




My preferences in such a case is to populate a standard list field
from the database. When a line in the field is selected, I then
populate a set of edit fields, radio button, popup mens etc, so that
that single line can be edited, with buttons for delete, apply edits,
cancel and add new record.

While this may appear more clunky than direct editing of the table, it
allows much more control & validation of data entered.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Shell


I have never used PostgreSQL, so I don't know how you normally start
it. However from the error message, it appears that you don't start it
with sudo, just with a standard user's login.

Can you start PostgreSQL as normal from the Terminal and post the
commands you use (blanking out any password). Then we can see how that
needs to be altered to work directly from Rev.

One other point: the message box does not always act exactly the same
as a script in an object, so for testing, I suggest you make a button
and do this in a mouseUp handler.

Cheers,
Sarah


On 10/5/06, Hershel Fisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 10/4/06 6:51 AM, "Sarah Reichelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks,
 this is what I put into the message box

put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript put "pw=" & quote & "vehachhkl" & quote &
cr after tScript
put "echo $pw | sudo -S /usr/local/bin/postmaster -D /usr/local/pgsql/data -
i" & cr after tScript
put shell(tScript)

This is the result for the above script
Password:
"root" execution of the PostgreSQL server is not permitted.
The server must be started under an unprivileged user ID to prevent
possible system security compromise.  See the documentation for
more information on how to properly start the server.

--put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
put "pw=" & quote & "vehachhkl" & quote & cr after tScript
put "echo $pw | sudo -S /usr/local/bin/postmaster -D /usr/local/pgsql/data -
i" & cr after tScript
put shell(tScript)

And this is the result for this script, I'm wondering.
1
But it doesn't open "postgres"
Thanks again.
Hershel


> On 10/4/06, Hershel Fisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi, I'd greatly appreciate if some one can help me out on this one.
>> How do I write this command with the shell function, I would write it in
>> terminal as follows
>>
>> Su -  myUsr
>> Password:
>> And another command.
>>
>> Now the question is that every line above is a different entry
>> If I put
>> Put shell("su - myUsr") in the message box this is the result
>> "Password's: Sorry"
>>
>> And also if I understand correctly every command with the shell function is
>> a different terminal and does not correspond to the previous shell reply, is
>> that true? If so how do I write that every command should correspond to the
>> previously respond?
>
>
> You have to construct the shell commands as a single string and do it
> all at once. Here's an example of how to use sudo to set the system
> clock, but just put whatever you want after the "-S".
>
> put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
> put "pw=" & quote & tPass & quote & cr after tScript
> put "echo $pw | sudo -S date " & tDate & tTime & cr after tScript
> -- build the command lines, the command you need to run goes after the -S
> put shell(tScript) into tCheck  -- do the command & get the result
>
> You have to quote your admin password, but you can ask for that when
> running the script, or store it in a custom property.
>
> HTH,
> Sarah
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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Dan Shafer


Andre.

Threads we need. Nested arrays we can simulate.

:-)

Dan


On 10/4/06, Andre Garzia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Now my only wish for Rev is NESTED ARRAYS AND THREADS! Sorry for
the all caps, I get emotional over this topics... :-)

Andre




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http://www.shafermedia.com
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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users


Peter,

Rev would also trigger your firewall due to RevOnline launching on  
startup (unless you disable it on the prefs). It's not phoning home  
but it's sure accessing a server. Thats why I hate this firewall  
softwares, it's all or nothing. In windows they go all jumpy. Now  
imaigine me. At a common day work I have maybe three or four ssh  
sessions, many stack tools acessing server, some standalones too


I was an RB user too. I moved out of their base because the first  
releases for Mac OS 10.1 were horrible. Thank God I found Rev.


What got me into Rev what the following line:

move this stack to the screenloc

When I first executed this on my first stack using Revolution Starter  
Kit from eons ago, man, I was smilling so much, it was so fun! I got  
the stack walking back and forth like a schizophrenic pong machine!  
And I thought: "maybe I can also code something useful out of it too..."


Now my only wish for Rev is NESTED ARRAYS AND THREADS! Sorry for  
the all caps, I get emotional over this topics... :-)


Andre

On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:20 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

I'm a FORMER user of REALBasic.  I never used it for major  
(multimedia) development, like I do use Revolution now.   I guess I  
am still counted in the 100,000.


BTW, I fired up my RB 5.5 the other day and almost fell off my  
chair when the Windows firewall came up and told me it was trying  
to connect to the internet!  Why is RB connecting to the internet?   
And what is it doing?  Why would it phone home?


Perhaps that is how they get their user count... it tells them  
every time you run it.


Peter aka RB User #1,354

At 01:24 PM 10/4/2006, you wrote:
In a press release  today,  
REALBasic
indicated its product now produces Universal Binaries, but I found  
it more
intriguing that they claim 100,000 users of their product. I can't  
believe
that's a real number but if it is, they have clearly been doing a  
lot of
growing in the past 12-18 months, probably at the expense of VB  
which has
driven its users away in droves with its stupid "take .NET or go  
away"

approach.

That would also mean they are *considerably* larger than I suspect  
RunRev is
(though RunRev, like most companies, doesn't reveal installed-base  
numbers).


--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588

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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Dan Shafer


This thread made me ask myself the question, "What constitutes a user of a
development tool?"

I used to think it would be dishonest to count everyone who had ever
downloaded (and perhaps paid for?) any version of the tool. After all, I've
downloaded (and even paid for) quite a number of development tools over the
years of which I could no longer be considered a user (and many for which
that was never, strictly speaking, true).

Then I thought the focus should be on "active users," which I would
(arbitrarily) define as anyone who had downloaded (and perhaps paid for?)
the latest update to the tool. That would weed out folks who had  been users
at one point but were no longer seriously using the tool. But witness the
RunRev situation with 2.7.x vs. 2.6.1. I'd consider myself a fairly active
user of Revolution but I don't use 2.7.x at all yet, though I have
downloaded it. I imagine there are lots of RB developers who haven't
upgraded in some time because they don't see a need for the new features and
are quite satisfied with the older version in which they maintain
applications for themselves or clients.

My conclusion, for my purposes only, is that only "active" users should be
counted but that determining that number is all but impossible, so, at the
end of the day, "installed base" isn't a useful piece of information.

Instead, I'll measure the popularity of a development tool based on such
issues as how many books, web sites, articles, and tutorials are available;
how large and active and helpful the user community is; how much free or
nearly free code can you obtain for it.

By that measure, RB is vastly more popular than RunRev. It has four books
published, quite a few magazine articles and a healthy number of Web sites
devoted to teaching it and providing sample and reusable code (classes) for
it.

Of course, popularity is just one factor to take into account when choosing
a development tool. And it may not be a very important one in most
situations.
--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users



and I have 45 thousand users for iBlog application which was last  
updated many years ago while I was an RB user, before I switched to  
Rev...

Heck, I developed that think in RB for System 9.

andre

On Oct 4, 2006, at 4:36 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Lynn Fredricks wrote:
In a press release  today,  
REALBasic indicated its product now produces Universal Binaries,  
but I found it more intriguing that they claim 100,000 users of  
their product. I can't believe that's a real number but if it is,  
they have clearly been doing a lot of growing in the past 12-18  
months, probably at the expense of VB which has driven its users  
away in droves with its stupid "take .NET or go away"

approach.

Something to keep in mind is the following:
1. They have a free linux version.
2. They did a massive giveaway of their Windows version a few  
years ago, and

more than once.
3. 1&2 numbers can be used as numbers for "developers" even if  
there is no

real proof the developer didn't simply delete after downloading.


Heck, if we're just counting total downloads since the product was  
launched then WebMerge has about half a million users. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread Gordon Shimizu

Thanks for this Mark, but it just didn't do it.  Apparently, I need to find
the correct pathway from my main directory stack to my subdirectory stacks
then to my individual topic stacks.

On 10/4/06 12:23 PM, "Mark Swindell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Try this:
> 
> on mouseUp
> open stack mySubStack
> close stack myMainStack
> end mouseUp
> 
> Mark
> 
>

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Re: Libraries, 'start using' and stacks

2006-10-04 Thread Dave Cragg



On 4 Oct 2006, at 16:49, Graham Samuel wrote:

.
It seems to me that 'start using' can invoke a mainstack (rather  
than just a substack of the calling app) and presumably the library  
mainstack can have substacks although so far I don't know how their  
scripts (or the scripts of any objects in the library system) fit  
into the message path.


Only the script of the stack you "start using" gets put at the "back"  
of the message path. (I'm using "back" in the sense that messages  
travel backwards from button to card to stack to libraries. Some  
people use "up" and some people use "down". Very confusing.) The  
scripts of any substacks or objects in the stack don't get placed in  
the message path. But they do exist in the same way that objects and  
substacks in normal stacks exist. For example, you can "send" a  
message to card 1 of stack "myLibrary" if you want to.



What I don't understand is whether the stack one 'starts using' is  
actually opened at that point.


The stack doesn't have to be open before you "start using" it. You  
can "start using" a stack directly with a file reference. (start  
using stack "libsFolder/myLib.rev") When you start using a stack,  
it's open in the sense that it is loaded into memory. But it doesn't  
receive any openstack/opencard messages. Also, it isn't visible, but  
it can be made visible in the normal way. (show stack "myLibrary")




How do people approach the problem of a library of stacks, which  
might for example be visible to the user, and might contain  
controls such as buttons?


The only kind of library stacks I've used which might be visible to  
the user are status panels, for example, to show the progress of url  
uploads and downloads. I don't really treat these any differently  
from script-only libraries. Generally, I keep libraries as substacks  
of my main application stack, but I have placed then externally as  
well, in a special "libraries" folder. The advanatge of keeping them  
external is that they can easily be moved or shared between projects.  
The disadvantage is that you have to update your library loading  
routine in your main application stack if you ever move or rename the  
libraries folder. (Or deal with phone calls when your user deletes  
the folder. )


Cheers
Dave


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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread Gordon Shimizu

Hello Jacque,
Start the clock!  Please keep track of your time and I will send you billing
information for your services.

I tried this in various places (stack script, card script, and the button).
In the stack script location, it was in the openStack script.  It doesn't
make any sense to put it into the card or button script but I did it anyway
out of desperation (frustration!)

>get the filename of this stack -- path to your main directory stack
>set the itemDelimiter to slash -- all file paths use slashes
>put item 1 to -2 of it into theFolderPath -- negatives count from the
> end of the string
>set the defaultfolder to it -- now the default folder location is set

I have the converted HC stacks in one dedicated folder. I guess I'm not
putting it in the right place in my main directory stack to go the
subdirectory stack and eventually to the specific topic stack.

Gordon

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Re: Libraries, 'start using' and stacks

2006-10-04 Thread Jerry Daniels


Graham,

If you "start using" a stack (thus making it a library) that is  
already open OR one that exists only as a file waiting to be opened,  
it becomes one of your library stacks.


You can clearly see the new library stack in the Galaxy Projects  
folder called "libraries". I just tried this with a stack that was  
not yet opened. It worked great.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

Tool makers for the 21st century
http://www.daniels-mara.com

Voice: 512.879.6286
Skype: jerry.daniels





On Oct 4, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:

Folks - I'm trying to decide on a strategy for a library suite for  
a set of apps. I have never had to do this systematically before. I  
would like my library to consist of scripts (handlers which are  
common to the various apps) and stacks (for example stacks for the  
preparation of printed pages). To this end I am exploring the  
'start using' command, and I've just read Richard G's very useful  
"Extending the Runtime Revolution Message Path".
It seems to me that 'start using' can invoke a mainstack (rather  
than just a substack of the calling app) and presumably the library  
mainstack can have substacks although so far I don't know how their  
scripts (or the scripts of any objects in the library system) fit  
into the message path. What I don't understand is whether the stack  
one 'starts using' is actually opened at that point. In the IDE  
(well, Galaxy) it doesn't seem to be - in other words there is a  
difference between making the script of a stack available and  
making the stack itself available.


How do people approach the problem of a library of stacks, which  
might for example be visible to the user, and might contain  
controls such as buttons? I see that this is different from  
extending the message path, but I am not clear if there is any  
formal mechanism for doing this at all. Perhaps it's just a matter  
of bundling the library stacks in with the app, tho one might have  
to take steps to avoid the app and its libraries getting separated.  
Maybe I'm just thinking about it the wrong way...


TIA for any clarification.

Ignorantly

Graham



Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France

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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Peter T. Evensen

I'm a FORMER user of REALBasic.  I never used it for major (multimedia) 
development, like I do use Revolution now.   I guess I am still counted in 
the 100,000.


BTW, I fired up my RB 5.5 the other day and almost fell off my chair when 
the Windows firewall came up and told me it was trying to connect to the 
internet!  Why is RB connecting to the internet?  And what is it 
doing?  Why would it phone home?


Perhaps that is how they get their user count... it tells them every time 
you run it.


Peter aka RB User #1,354

At 01:24 PM 10/4/2006, you wrote:

In a press release  today, REALBasic
indicated its product now produces Universal Binaries, but I found it more
intriguing that they claim 100,000 users of their product. I can't believe
that's a real number but if it is, they have clearly been doing a lot of
growing in the past 12-18 months, probably at the expense of VB which has
driven its users away in droves with its stupid "take .NET or go away"
approach.

That would also mean they are *considerably* larger than I suspect RunRev is
(though RunRev, like most companies, doesn't reveal installed-base numbers).

--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 



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Re: Testing for numerics

2006-10-04 Thread Eric Chatonet


Re,

I agree.
Actually, I had written a long time ago an universal function, able  
to handle any combination of any length.
One argument only: something like the strings I used in the tutorial  
as an introduction to specific formats.
But you have to understand well how to specify the format and it  
makes things a bit more complicated for anyone :-)
And the stack I have released is a simple tutorial to get any user  
started...

So I did no include it ;-)

Le 4 oct. 06 à 21:55, Francis Nugent Dixon a écrit :


Hi Eric,

I totally agree ! Pre 1980 Data Processing (that was what
it was called in those days) spent eons vetting, rejecting
and    finally . integrating external data.

Things changed later, when the idea of checking Data Entry
"at the source" was born ! Of course, this was only possible
after the introduction of independant (non-centralized) systems.

I think we all agree that you should not let "sht" enter the
system, then you won't have to spend time fleecing it out.

So . Can we now have the "all singing - all dancing" data
entry routine, with a call sequence like :

 put dataentry(x,y) into myreceptionfield

where x is the type of check required, and y is the length to be
accepted ..   ?

 unless, of course,  you can think of more criteria .

This routine could be integrated into your nice "Managing Entry
Boxes"  stack.

However, the equally elegant solution from our unknown
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"  user is also interesting :


function  isPositiveInteger pValue
return (pValue is a number) AND (pValue  >=0) AND (trunc(pValue) 
=pValue)

end isPositiveInteger


Best Regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet
 
--

http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/


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Re: Shell

2006-10-04 Thread Hershel Fisch

On 10/4/06 6:51 AM, "Sarah Reichelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks,
 this is what I put into the message box

put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript put "pw=" & quote & "vehachhkl" & quote &
cr after tScript
put "echo $pw | sudo -S /usr/local/bin/postmaster -D /usr/local/pgsql/data -
i" & cr after tScript
put shell(tScript)

This is the result for the above script
Password:
"root" execution of the PostgreSQL server is not permitted.
The server must be started under an unprivileged user ID to prevent
possible system security compromise.  See the documentation for
more information on how to properly start the server.

--put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
put "pw=" & quote & "vehachhkl" & quote & cr after tScript
put "echo $pw | sudo -S /usr/local/bin/postmaster -D /usr/local/pgsql/data -
i" & cr after tScript
put shell(tScript)

And this is the result for this script, I'm wondering.
1
But it doesn't open "postgres"
Thanks again.
Hershel


> On 10/4/06, Hershel Fisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi, I'd greatly appreciate if some one can help me out on this one.
>> How do I write this command with the shell function, I would write it in
>> terminal as follows
>> 
>> Su -  myUsr
>> Password:
>> And another command.
>> 
>> Now the question is that every line above is a different entry
>> If I put
>> Put shell("su - myUsr") in the message box this is the result
>> "Password's: Sorry"
>> 
>> And also if I understand correctly every command with the shell function is
>> a different terminal and does not correspond to the previous shell reply, is
>> that true? If so how do I write that every command should correspond to the
>> previously respond?
> 
> 
> You have to construct the shell commands as a single string and do it
> all at once. Here's an example of how to use sudo to set the system
> clock, but just put whatever you want after the "-S".
> 
> put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
> put "pw=" & quote & tPass & quote & cr after tScript
> put "echo $pw | sudo -S date " & tDate & tTime & cr after tScript
> -- build the command lines, the command you need to run goes after the -S
> put shell(tScript) into tCheck  -- do the command & get the result
> 
> You have to quote your admin password, but you can ask for that when
> running the script, or store it in a custom property.
> 
> HTH,
> Sarah
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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Chipp Walters


On 10/4/06, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Heck, if we're just counting total downloads since the product was
launched then WebMerge has about half a million users. :)


And if we're counting hits to our website (www.buttongadget.com), then
ButtonGadget has over 1 million users.

Damn, you'd think I'd have more money by now! Oh, yeah, we're not
counting paid versions.

I wonder what the 'paid' installed base for RB is? That all said, I do
believe the 100K number is a good marketing ploy. It would make me
more confident in a proprietary development product.

I wonder what Rev's (combined with MC's) total number of downloads would be?

It seems if they could make a case for a large number (like RB), then
it might also help in the marketing spiel. After all, I doubt Lynn
will jump in with any sort of disclaimer if Rev releases
numbers--(waiting...)
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Testing for numerics

2006-10-04 Thread Francis Nugent Dixon


Hi Eric,

I totally agree ! Pre 1980 Data Processing (that was what
it was called in those days) spent eons vetting, rejecting
and    finally . integrating external data.

Things changed later, when the idea of checking Data Entry
"at the source" was born ! Of course, this was only possible
after the introduction of independant (non-centralized) systems.

I think we all agree that you should not let "sht" enter the
system, then you won't have to spend time fleecing it out.

So . Can we now have the "all singing - all dancing" data
entry routine, with a call sequence like :

 put dataentry(x,y) into myreceptionfield

where x is the type of check required, and y is the length to be
accepted ..   ?

 unless, of course,  you can think of more criteria .

This routine could be integrated into your nice "Managing Entry
Boxes"  stack.

However, the equally elegant solution from our unknown
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"  user is also interesting :


function  isPositiveInteger pValue
return (pValue is a number) AND (pValue  >=0) AND 
(trunc(pValue)=pValue)

end isPositiveInteger


Salutations

-Francis

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Libraries, 'start using' and stacks

2006-10-04 Thread Graham Samuel

Folks - I'm trying to decide on a strategy for a library suite for a  
set of apps. I have never had to do this systematically before. I  
would like my library to consist of scripts (handlers which are  
common to the various apps) and stacks (for example stacks for the  
preparation of printed pages). To this end I am exploring the 'start  
using' command, and I've just read Richard G's very useful "Extending  
the Runtime Revolution Message Path".
It seems to me that 'start using' can invoke a mainstack (rather than  
just a substack of the calling app) and presumably the library  
mainstack can have substacks although so far I don't know how their  
scripts (or the scripts of any objects in the library system) fit  
into the message path. What I don't understand is whether the stack  
one 'starts using' is actually opened at that point. In the IDE  
(well, Galaxy) it doesn't seem to be - in other words there is a  
difference between making the script of a stack available and making  
the stack itself available.


How do people approach the problem of a library of stacks, which  
might for example be visible to the user, and might contain controls  
such as buttons? I see that this is different from extending the  
message path, but I am not clear if there is any formal mechanism for  
doing this at all. Perhaps it's just a matter of bundling the library  
stacks in with the app, tho one might have to take steps to avoid the  
app and its libraries getting separated. Maybe I'm just thinking  
about it the wrong way...


TIA for any clarification.

Ignorantly

Graham



Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France

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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Ian Wood

And what got me started with Revolution? A free copy of 1.something  
on a MacUser UK cover disk... ;-)


Ian

On 4 Oct 2006, at 19:50, Mark Schonewille wrote:

4) They gave away a free RealBasic Lite for Mac with magazines, a  
few years ago.


Mark


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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users


Lynn Fredricks wrote:
In a press release  
today, REALBasic indicated its product now produces Universal 
Binaries, but I found it more intriguing that they claim 
100,000 users of their product. I can't believe that's a real 
number but if it is, they have clearly been doing a lot of 
growing in the past 12-18 months, probably at the expense of 
VB which has driven its users away in droves with its stupid 
"take .NET or go away"

approach.


Something to keep in mind is the following:

1. They have a free linux version.
2. They did a massive giveaway of their Windows version a few years ago, and
more than once.
3. 1&2 numbers can be used as numbers for "developers" even if there is no
real proof the developer didn't simply delete after downloading.


Heck, if we're just counting total downloads since the product was 
launched then WebMerge has about half a million users. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
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Re: License?



On Oct 4, 2006, at 1:06 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

With 2.6.1 I received a license agreement file.  I am not able to
find it in the 2.7 Enterprise folder.  Did I get a copy of the  
license?


When I installed 2.7 I saved the license agreement (there's a button
for it when you install). But I haven't done that in any of the point
releases, so I couldn't tell you if it's changed since then.


I was confused at that point in installation.  I thought it meant  
save the revolution system and wasn't sure how that was not the same  
as installing.  I considered the possibility that that maybe created  
a big installer file for moving to like systems, but that seemed  
unlikely since there are downloads for that, or were.


Even now that I understand that it means to save the file, it seems  
strange.  One candidate location for saving the file is in the  
installation, which, if I remember the installation right, did not  
exist yet.


And even if I (obviously obtuse at times) did understand that, I  
might have assumed that there would be no need; I would just use the  
copy in the installation file set.


Would it be a good feature to ask for?  That is, for the license to  
be installed as well as optionally saved to some location.


Maybe there is some legal or managerial reason for allowing saving  
but not installing.


(BTW, I have received a copy of the 2.7.1 license in eMail.)

Dar

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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Swindell


Try this:

on mouseUp
open stack mySubStack
close stack myMainStack
end mouseUp

Mark

On Oct 4, 2006, at 10:31 AM, Gordon Shimizu wrote:


Thanks for this.
My main directory stack contain buttons that opens other stacks. I  
placed
the close stack command in one of the button and it did close this  
main
directory stack.  However, it did not open the stack that this  
button should
have been linked to.  I used openStack and file name of the stack I  
wanted
to open with this button but nothing happened.  I think I am  
missing the

pathway to this stack I want to open.  Can you help?
Thanks.

On 10/3/06 10:17 PM, "Mark Swindell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


close command

Platform support:
Introduced in version 1.0

Closes a stack window.

close stack

close stack "Fearsome Stack"
close the defaultStack

See also: close file command, close printing command, close process
command, close socket command, destroyStack property, go command,
revCloseVideoGrabber command, How do I open and close a drawer?, How
do I respond to closing a window?

Description
Use the close command to close a stack without user intervention.

Parameters:
The stack is any open stack.

Comments:
The close command closes the stack window immediately, but it does
not necessarily remove the stack from memory. A stack that is closed
but in memory still takes up space in RAM and its objects are still
accessible to scripts.

If the stack's destroyStack property is set to false, or there are
other stacks in the same file that are still open, closing the stack
does not purge the stack from memory.

If the handler that closes the stack is in the script of the stack
(or in the script of an object in the stack) and the stack's
destroyStack property is true, the stack window is closed
immediately, but the stack is not removed from memory until after the
handler completes.


Mark

On Oct 3, 2006, at 4:25 PM, Gordon Shimizu wrote:

I'm in the process on converting a number of my hypercard stacks  
into

Studio.  I find Studio handlers very similar to hypercard's.
However, the
converted stacks do not behave as in hypercard (didn't expect it  
to!).

My converted stacks consist of a master directory stack that was
linked to a
subdirectory stack then to the individual topic stacks.  In
hypercard, when
I opened the master directory stack to open the subdirectory  
stack the

master directory stack would simply close.  In studio, the master
directory
stack window is still open and behind the subdirectory window.  How
can I
get the master directory to close as well as any stacks that is
opened from
the subdirectory stack?

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Re: License?

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Wieder

Dar-

Wednesday, October 4, 2006, 11:36:15 AM, you wrote:

> With 2.6.1 I received a license agreement file.  I am not able to  
> find it in the 2.7 Enterprise folder.  Did I get a copy of the license?

When I installed 2.7 I saved the license agreement (there's a button
for it when you install). But I haven't done that in any of the point
releases, so I couldn't tell you if it's changed since then.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Testing for numerics

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Wieder

/H-

However, these return conflicting values if pValue is empty. So I
suppose the question to ponder is "is empty a positive integer?"

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread J. Landman Gay


Gordon Shimizu wrote:

Thanks for this.
My main directory stack contain buttons that opens other stacks. I placed
the close stack command in one of the button and it did close this main
directory stack.  However, it did not open the stack that this button should
have been linked to.  I used openStack and file name of the stack I wanted
to open with this button but nothing happened.  I think I am missing the
pathway to this stack I want to open.  Can you help?


HyperCard stored the paths to various stacks that the user had opened 
previously, and used those as a lookup list if it didn't know the file 
path to a particular stack. Revolution doesn't do that. There are two 
ways to make sure your stack locations are recognized.


The first way is to simply pass the full file path to the stack. You may 
not always know this in advance, but there are ways to calculate it. 
However, the easiest way is the second way, using relative file paths.


Make sure all your stacks are contained in the same folder (or 
subfolders of that folder.) Then set "the defaultfolder" to that folder. 
The defaultfolder is a Revolution property that stores the path to the 
folder on disk where all file lookups should occur. If all your stacks 
are in one folder, you can calculate the correct folder like this:


  get the filename of this stack -- path to your main directory stack
  set the itemDelimiter to slash -- all file paths use slashes
  put item 1 to -2 of it into theFolderPath -- negatives count from the 
end of the string

  set the defaultfolder to it -- now the default folder location is set

Once you have set the defaultfolder, all your stacks can be accessed 
through relative file paths to that folder:


  go stack "mystack.rev"

Or if it is in a subfolder of the defaultfolder:

  go stack "mySubFolder/mystack.rev"

Note that unless the stack is already open in memory, you need to supply 
the name of the stack file as it appears on disk, which in Revolution 
can be different from the name of the stack itself. This is another 
difference from HC.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Schonewille

4) They gave away a free RealBasic Lite for Mac with magazines, a few  
years ago.


Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 4-okt-2006, om 20:36 heeft Lynn Fredricks het volgende geschreven:



Something to keep in mind is the following:

1. They have a free linux version.
2. They did a massive giveaway of their Windows version a few years  
ago, and

more than once.
3. 1&2 numbers can be used as numbers for "developers" even if  
there is no

real proof the developer didn't simply delete after downloading.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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RE: [OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Lynn Fredricks

> In a press release  
> today, REALBasic indicated its product now produces Universal 
> Binaries, but I found it more intriguing that they claim 
> 100,000 users of their product. I can't believe that's a real 
> number but if it is, they have clearly been doing a lot of 
> growing in the past 12-18 months, probably at the expense of 
> VB which has driven its users away in droves with its stupid 
> "take .NET or go away"
> approach.

Something to keep in mind is the following:

1. They have a free linux version.
2. They did a massive giveaway of their Windows version a few years ago, and
more than once.
3. 1&2 numbers can be used as numbers for "developers" even if there is no
real proof the developer didn't simply delete after downloading.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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License?

With 2.6.1 I received a license agreement file.  I am not able to  
find it in the 2.7 Enterprise folder.  Did I get a copy of the license?


Dar


--
**
Dar Scott
Dar Scott Consulting  and  Dar's Lab
8637 Horacio Place NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111

Lab, office, home:  +1 505 299 9497
Fax:call above first
Skype:  ask

http://www.swcp.com/dsc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Computer programming
**


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[OT] - REALBasic Claims 100K Users

2006-10-04 Thread Dan Shafer


In a press release  today, REALBasic
indicated its product now produces Universal Binaries, but I found it more
intriguing that they claim 100,000 users of their product. I can't believe
that's a real number but if it is, they have clearly been doing a lot of
growing in the past 12-18 months, probably at the expense of VB which has
driven its users away in droves with its stupid "take .NET or go away"
approach.

That would also mean they are *considerably* larger than I suspect RunRev is
(though RunRev, like most companies, doesn't reveal installed-base numbers).

--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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Re: Hypercard to Studio conversion

2006-10-04 Thread Gordon Shimizu

Thanks for this.
My main directory stack contain buttons that opens other stacks. I placed
the close stack command in one of the button and it did close this main
directory stack.  However, it did not open the stack that this button should
have been linked to.  I used openStack and file name of the stack I wanted
to open with this button but nothing happened.  I think I am missing the
pathway to this stack I want to open.  Can you help?
Thanks.

On 10/3/06 10:17 PM, "Mark Swindell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> close command
> 
> Platform support:
> Introduced in version 1.0
> 
> Closes a stack window.
> 
> close stack
> 
> close stack "Fearsome Stack"
> close the defaultStack
> 
> See also: close file command, close printing command, close process
> command, close socket command, destroyStack property, go command,
> revCloseVideoGrabber command, How do I open and close a drawer?, How
> do I respond to closing a window?
> 
> Description
> Use the close command to close a stack without user intervention.
> 
> Parameters:
> The stack is any open stack.
> 
> Comments:
> The close command closes the stack window immediately, but it does
> not necessarily remove the stack from memory. A stack that is closed
> but in memory still takes up space in RAM and its objects are still
> accessible to scripts.
> 
> If the stack's destroyStack property is set to false, or there are
> other stacks in the same file that are still open, closing the stack
> does not purge the stack from memory.
> 
> If the handler that closes the stack is in the script of the stack
> (or in the script of an object in the stack) and the stack's
> destroyStack property is true, the stack window is closed
> immediately, but the stack is not removed from memory until after the
> handler completes.
> 
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Oct 3, 2006, at 4:25 PM, Gordon Shimizu wrote:
> 
>> I'm in the process on converting a number of my hypercard stacks into
>> Studio.  I find Studio handlers very similar to hypercard's.
>> However, the
>> converted stacks do not behave as in hypercard (didn't expect it to!).
>> My converted stacks consist of a master directory stack that was
>> linked to a
>> subdirectory stack then to the individual topic stacks.  In
>> hypercard, when
>> I opened the master directory stack to open the subdirectory stack the
>> master directory stack would simply close.  In studio, the master
>> directory
>> stack window is still open and behind the subdirectory window.  How
>> can I
>> get the master directory to close as well as any stacks that is
>> opened from
>> the subdirectory stack?
>> 
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Re: Testing for numerics

2006-10-04 Thread FlexibleLearning

Overkill solution...

function  isPositiveInteger pValue
replace comma with empty in pValue #  Thousands separator
replace "$" with empty in pValue # Currency  identifier
try
add 1 to pValue
catch  errnum
return "false" # Not a number
end  try
if trunc(pValue) <> pValue then return "false" # Not an  Integer
return pValue >= 1 # Is not negative
end  isPositiveInteger


Underkill solution...

function  isPositiveInteger pValue
return (pValue is a number) AND (pValue  >=0) AND (trunc(pValue)=pValue)
end isPositiveInteger

/H  

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Re: The Save command - what does it really do?

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Wieder

Mark-

Wednesday, October 4, 2006, 6:07:49 AM, you wrote:

> There is a small difference between the effect of using the Save menu
> and the save command, according to the docs: "The Save menu item in
> the File menu automatically compacts the stack. However, the save  
> command does not do so."

Where is that in the docs? I can't find it in mine...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Help with table fields and cell editing

2006-10-04 Thread Stephen Barncard

I share your pain about table fields. Out of the box, stock, they act
quite odd. What we wanted was basically Excel, what we got was to me
so strange that I didn't want to go there. But I think that they need
additional coding to make them usable by humans. (see links to Eric
Chatonet stack below)

Some hard core among us has tried to tackle this, but most find a
different way to approach the problem, like tab-delimited lists that
display a field hovering just above where clicked, etc.

Rev officials have admitted that Rev Tables is flawed, and has
mentioned that improvements are in the works in some future date.

The beauty of rev is that if you don't like the way a particular
prefab control works, you can roll your own that will usually do the
job better.

Having said that, list member Eric Chatonet has offered some tips on
using table fields. He seems to have found a way to make them work
like you want.

here's the stack: (watch word wrap)
http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=telecharger&l=en&arch=tutorials/Managing%20Table%20Fields.rev.zip

download his Tutorial stack, and choose the appropriate topic.
http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution_didacticiels&l=en

Help!

I have a Rev 2.7.4 (build 291) PC interface for database editing that is in
great shape except for one feature, directly editing a list of points. It
seems to me that this should be a natural table field & cell editing task,
but I can not see how to make it work.
...
I can post to bugzilla if this the problem is not unique to me.

Thanks in advance.

Walton Sumner

--
stephen barncard
s a n f r a n c i s c o
- - - - - - - - - - - -
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Help with table fields and cell editing

2006-10-04 Thread Walton Sumner

Help!

I have a Rev 2.7.4 (build 291) PC interface for database editing that is in
great shape except for one feature, directly editing a list of points. It
seems to me that this should be a natural table field & cell editing task,
but I can not see how to make it work.

I have a group that contains a table field. The table field is not locked,
the "Table object" setting is checked, the "cREVTable(celle" box is checked
(cell editing), and the maximum editable column is set to 2. The tab stop is
less than half the width of the field, after subtracting the width of the
vertical scroll bar. Problems persist with or without a horizontal scroll
bar.

The field has the following odd behaviors when it is populated with data:
1. A mouseup event within a cell temporarily erases the data in the cell
rather than selecting the data in the cell, even if I drag over the cell
contents and manage to select them before releasing the mouse. If the
mouseup occurs outside of the cell, the contents of the cell remain
selected. Clicking in a cell also causes the erasing mouseup event. These
are incorrect behaviors, IMO - the end user should be able to click or drag
in the cell and insert or change one or a few digits.
After clicking in a cell in the first column, clicking a different cell in
the first column causes the first cell's contents to reappear (correct
behavior)

2. Clicking any cell in the second column erases the entire field's
contents. The field does not recover when the cell is deselected.

3. Clicking any cell in the second column selects the cell, but scrolls the
field horizontally so that the cell's left edge abuts the left edge of the
field, displaying the out-of-bounds third column and totally obscuring the
first column. This is also incorrect behavior, IMO. The selected cell will
accept new text, let's say "ABC", after turning off the keydown handler that
screened for digits.

4. Tabbing from cell to cell has the same effect as clicking on a cell in
the second column.

5. After reloading the table contents from the database, clicking on any
cell in the second column erases everything but restores the "ABC" that I
entered in #3. 

So, I'm guessing that the table field is not updating its global descriptors
correctly, as reported in the archives from 2003 and 2004, but I can't see
that anyone else has these problems currently. In fact, there are messages
that talk about letting Rev handle tabs and arrows and the like, as if my
current problems are not reproducible at all. Also, I thought until now that
Rev's field issues had been resolved.

So is there some special combination of settings that makes the table work?
Meanwhile, I'll be scripting a redundant interface to achieve point editing
with tab keys and no mouseclicks.

I can post to bugzilla if this the problem is not unique to me.

Thanks in advance.

Walton Sumner
 


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Re: Subliminal priming

2006-10-04 Thread Ian Wood



On 4 Oct 2006, at 13:41, David Glasgow wrote:


I have received advice that I should be looking at 100Hz.


A lot of LCDs have a fixed refresh rate in the region of 60Hz, so you  
will need to look carefully at the hardware side as well.


Going OT a bit, I thought 'brief flash' priming had been debunked as  
having any substantial effect?


Ian
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Re: Subliminal priming

2006-10-04 Thread Bill Marriott

Subliminal priming?

Is that like when a major news network runs the caption "Mark Foley (D-FL)" 
under images of a disgraced ex-congressman (who is actually Republican)?

[Apologies!]

To answer your question, I've tried using "milliseconds" and "ticks" in 
combination with the "wait" and "send xxx in nn" commands and had very 
inconsistent results controlling on-screen animation/activity when the 
values were small. Perhaps if the script were extremely simple and it was a 
virgin install of the operating system, the results would be more 
consistent.

If you are trying to strictly control the amount of time a subliminal 
message appears on-screen (for example to determine the threshold of 
perception) I am not sure you will be able to do this accurately, to 
scientific/laboratory standards, with Rev.

You will also need to consider the monitor refresh rate, which could be 
anything from 50 Hz to 120 Hz. I do not believe this can be controlled or 
sensed from within Rev.


David Glasgow wrote
> Has anyone done any of this using Rev?  Any hints or traps to avoid?
>
> One thing that worries me is ensuring that the software only runs on 
> hardware able to refresh at an appropriate rate.  I have received advice 
> that I should be looking at 100Hz.  Can I check this within Rev (I ask 
> with no great hope!).



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Re: The Save command - what does it really do?

2006-10-04 Thread Mark Schonewille


Hi Steve,

The save dialog just waits some time to give you the possibility to  
read which stacks are being saved. There is a simple wait command in  
there.


There is a small difference between the effect of using the Save menu  
and the save command, according to the docs: "The Save menu item in  
the File menu automatically compacts the stack. However, the save  
command does not do so."


Best,

Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 4-okt-2006, om 14:07 heeft [EMAIL PROTECTED] het volgende  
geschreven:


I've noticed that when I issue the script "Save this stack" that  
the stack
saves very quickly.   However, when using Command/S (on my Mac) a  
"Saving..."
window appears and the saving process takes a long time. Can  
someone clarify the

difference between "Save this stack" and "Command/S"?   Thanks.
Steve Goldberg


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Scripter's Scrapbook Shortcuts

2006-10-04 Thread FlexibleLearning

www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk
 
As requested, an illustrative screenshot of shortcuts is available for  
copying and printing as required at  www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk/preview

/H

Hugh  Senior
FLCo
Home of The Scripter's Scrapbook
 
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Subliminal priming

2006-10-04 Thread David Glasgow


Has anyone done any of this using Rev?  Any hints or traps to avoid?

One thing that worries me is ensuring that the software only runs on 
hardware able to refresh at an appropriate rate.  I have received 
advice that I should be looking at 100Hz.  Can I check this within Rev 
(I ask with no great hope!).


Best Wishes,

David Glasgow
Carlton Glasgow Partnership

http://www.i-psych.co.uk


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The Save command - what does it really do?

2006-10-04 Thread Stgoldberg

I've noticed that when I issue the script "Save this stack" that the stack 
saves very quickly.   However, when using Command/S (on my Mac) a "Saving..." 
window appears and the saving process takes a long time. Can someone clarify 
the 
difference between "Save this stack" and "Command/S"?   Thanks.
Steve Goldberg 
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Re: Shell


On 10/4/06, Hershel Fisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi, I'd greatly appreciate if some one can help me out on this one.
How do I write this command with the shell function, I would write it in
terminal as follows

Su -  myUsr
Password:
And another command.

Now the question is that every line above is a different entry
If I put
Put shell("su - myUsr") in the message box this is the result
"Password's: Sorry"

And also if I understand correctly every command with the shell function is
a different terminal and does not correspond to the previous shell reply, is
that true? If so how do I write that every command should correspond to the
previously respond?



You have to construct the shell commands as a single string and do it
all at once. Here's an example of how to use sudo to set the system
clock, but just put whatever you want after the "-S".

put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
put "pw=" & quote & tPass & quote & cr after tScript
put "echo $pw | sudo -S date " & tDate & tTime & cr after tScript
-- build the command lines, the command you need to run goes after the -S
put shell(tScript) into tCheck  -- do the command & get the result

You have to quote your admin password, but you can ask for that when
running the script, or store it in a custom property.

HTH,
Sarah
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Re: newTool message