Re: Studio license for sale
Hi, Richard, Is the license transferrable? That would be very rare for a software license. Before I "trolled" this list again (sorry, couldn't resist) I asked RunRev whether I may sell it. Yes, I may. This is common for software licenses, as European lawcourts have made it clear that Microsoft can not forbid people to resell their Windows license. If Microsoft cannot, how could someone else ;-) The license was bought on March, 8th 2004. So it is "brand new", bought for Version 2.1.2 and, according to the license text, usable for one bugfix (erm, upgrade). Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Studio license for sale
Hi, my studio license (about 1 month old, no update rigth lost) is for sale. If anyone is interested in buying it from me I would be happy to receive a (private) email. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Question about Linux Builder Requirements
Moin, Richard, My very limited understanding of the various window managers is that each provides its own mechanism for the essential basics: 1. How does one automate these basic essentials when making an installer for Linux? Short answer: The same way various libraries should be linked against (see my inquiry for help at the very beginning: What libraries have to be present?). Usually an application builder asks the developer which library version to link against. It would be the same task here: Ask the developer which window manager to support and create an installation script for the desired target. 2. Are these mechanisms really different from window manager to window manager? If so, have these various groups (GNOME, KDE, etc.) started work on a universal mechanism for these things? They propably have had some cooperation somewhere somewhen. But as you may know "cooperative development" is somewhat hard to find in the open source world when dealing with "products in competition" :-( Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multiple users server access
Hi, Andre, One method of solving this problem is to create an empty file when the stack is opened ... And what about if the session is 'broken'...? No way to close that file. Any other user will be prevented to access... :-( Actually there is another standard (sorry to insist in standards, my feeling is: One should use them, if they are available) for this: CVS. Don't save directly to the "original server site file" (something you NEVER EVER SHOULD DO, remember the problems Quark Xpress always had with users working on files that are located on server volumes) but use a CVS layer to access the repository. You don't even have to use CVS (if you do not like Open Source), there are various versioning software solutions. The general answer is: Use a layer that seperates incoming data from stored data and incooperates changes through a "diff mechanism". If users that cooperate on a single file have to be notified about changes in the original repository file you could simply put a small handler before the safe process that asks CVS (or whatever you use) whether changes have been made already. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: new site layout [was] Re: Revolution 2.2
Hi, Anyone can build a web crawler that extracts class="newsflash" items from it. Moving closer and closer to the Semantic-Web... I knew I should check site sources more oftem, we could make a plugin for the IDE that checks the site at some interval, it could pop a dialog as the news arrive? pretty easy and cool, would serve nice as a XML parsing example e plugin example. The "standard" for newsfeeds is "RSS". It is a lot easier to parse a RSS feed than to load in a complete HTML page, looking for "DIV entries". Perhaps someone could put up a "Runrev-News-DIV-to-RSS-transceiver" to let the web community access the feed using everyday techniques ;-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Question about Linux Builder Requirements
Hi, thanks to Pierre for the reply. Unfortunately I am still waiting for support from RunRev - all I need are the exact specifications, under which circumstances the advertised "Linux standalone building" will work. I am sure one CAN build "Linux standalones", but they will only run within specific installations - and I need to know which specs have to be met. I can not ask customers to change their (working) desktop environment to "accidently" find a configuration that lets a Revolution application start. Usually an "application builder" asks the developer which libraries to link against, because there are too many different "flavors" of "Linux" on the market, one cannot build a "one fits all" standalone, so this - again - is no "rant" on RunRev, it is simply an inquiry for assistance, where the "documentation" lacks. I wondered if someone else on this list has run into problems creating standalones for Linux (outside his/her own Linux dev box) and how he/she/it solved the problems. Linux is said to be a "supported platform", so I think it should be clear, WHAT LINUX is meant by that line. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Question about Linux Builder Requirements
Hi, I asked this before, but got no real reply. Unfortunately RunRev cannot help me either (I have been waiting for their reply for about 10 days now), maybe I could not make the problem clear enough. I need to show an application prototype on a fair on thursday and would like to use the Revolution study I made for it - naturally on Linux and Windows and MacOS. My Revolution Studio does not create working "standalones". To be true, the compilations most likely would work on specific Linux versions (RedHat?), but they are compiled against stdlibc++ V5 as shared library version. My customers don't use that version, so this library (as well as a few more that are required from the compilation) is not available on the Linux system. My Revolution documentation is broken when it comes to Requirements for Linux. The docs only display the Mac-Requirements when I click on the Linux entry. Could someone here please list the EXACT requirements for Linux standalones glued from Revolution studio? I know the ELF loader module is required, at least most Linux flavors have that "in house", but what about the specific system libraries? The problem is that there is no "startup code" in the "standalone". Linux "customers" tend to use their KDE and this way they won't get an error message if required libraries cannot be found. So they will consider Revolution applications "not functional" (which is correct, from their point of view). I would like to prevent that situation - but I cannot, I do not know WHAT requirements are there for Linux (or, to put it the other way round: Linux standalones are not Linux standalones :-) ) Thanks for your support, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Graphics Library 8bit...16bit, Sharpen, Laplacian, Cranny?
Hi, Kevin, Does anyone know a library with convert image 8-bit Color 16-bit Color etc., Sharpen, Laplacian, Cranny, and Segmentation? The propably best package (at least most widely used) is "ImageMagick", which runs fine under most modern OS. And it's free. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Twostep compiler?
Moin, Andre, here is the TROLL again as I have been named by a fellow list member. Anyway, you tested the encryption step I said on previous email? I just did so, unfortunately the week has begun and I don't have time to dig into the encoded chunks, so I cannot find the clear text instantly to try changing code bits. As for "first level security" this is fine - but it does not answer the other aspects I tried to point out :-) Anyway, I find this copyright note in "my" application * MetaCard 2.5 * *Copyright 2002 MetaCard Corporation. All Rights Reserved.* *The software contained in this listing is proprietary to * *MetaCard Corporation, Boulder, Colorado and is covered by * *U.S. and other copyright protection. Unauthorized copying* *adaptation, distribution, disassembling, use or display is* *prohibited and may result in civil and criminal penalties.* **** Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"
Hi, > Baffled by this discussion. from my side: ended anyway. Am I missing something obvious here? That may be because you did not follow it. The starting point was "this" is easier to understand than "that", the starting point was a comparism of two different ways to solve a problem. So: Yes, you have been missing something obvious, which has been explained during the discussion ;-)) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"
Moin, Brian, Now I think we're really getting to the crux of things =)! absolutely. It is just what I tried to explain: A programming language IS NOT a human language, but Transcript is "somewhat English", more than a "normal" programming language is. That makes things difficult for someone who takes a programming language independant from its English wording like I do: I don't care if PHP uses Spain for its commands or if Perl uses nonsense for its commands, the commands are simple "vocabulary" to me. It is the LOGIC that should play a role and "language logic" is dependant on the language you chose. So "Transcript" uses "English logic", not completely, but a subset of it. My example tried to show that: You do not only have to know English, you have to know the specific Transcript dialect with all its limitations (you cannot say "increment", you HAVE to say "add"). Already "speaking" this dialect makes things easy. Coming from a different development environment makes things more complicated than necessary. I explained my background as having "coded" in Machine Language (hex codes only). That wasn't English - at all. It was more like "Latin" (learn the logic once and you are done). I consider a programming language a tool to reach a goal - that goal is NOT telling a story or explaining TO A HUMAN BEING what I intend to do. That goal is to make the computer do what I want it to. Any influence that makes the interaction between the developer (and his staff) and the machine unprecise has to be avoided. Introducing "human interactive components" like "sentence structures" are distractions, they don't enforce the goal that is to be reached. They _do_ have their reasons if you have to "prototype" something and make the programming language easily understandable, even to other developers (that are not familiar with the language you would normaly choose), though. So, into the group: THANKS for the discussion. Speaking ones mind is not always allowed nowadays and it was a relieve to do it here. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Twostep compiler?
Moin, Andre, point taken! :-) My reply is: Self-modifying code should be forbidden by law, I really though we got over that about 20 years ago ;-) And: Decoding bytecode is not necessary, if the byte code is precompiled code (like in JAVA or PHP, which uses precompiled "twostep" code to speed up things). Doing a full interpretation of plain text really will be the slower solution compared to bytecode. I wasn't only thinking of "encryption" here but also of safety, performance etc. The more "data" has to be loaded the less CPU cache can be used to actually EXECUTE the code. I was used to calculate CPU cycles to make the best of my code, so again this may just be my (wrong) development background :-) Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"
Hi, Ken - and Mark, For example, which is more understandable in a spoken conversation? ... that's my point: We are talking about developing programs, not narrative stories. > I *do* find that many functions that I'm converting from some other > language are unnecessary, as they're already present in Transcript, or > they can be coded in much fewer lines and in either case become more > readable code. Most likely true - just as the oposite: Why isn't "basename" or "dirname" present, both being substantial functions for everyone who is dealing with files all day? No, don't answer it, it's just an example to show: Everyone has a specific environment he comes from. Telling him he's "silly" doesn't prove you right: > This is just silly. "1" is a defined constant. In your example, would > you consider "counter++" to be adding 1 banana to counter? If you replace "1" with "orange" (meaning: a variable) in "add 1 to many" you COULD mean "add everything in variable orange to the contents of variable banana"- a "concat action". PLEASE understand that I don't mean this "serious", it's just a sample to make you understand that "human language" is NOT "programming language". It simply isn't true that my 12-year-old-daughter (being German just like me) could code Transcript more easily than PHP if she has got basic programming skills. She would a) have to understand English quite well and b) have to understand the specific restrictions of Transcript-English. She would always be puzzled whether Transcript would UNDERSTAND what she tries to express (in English), wheras using standard coding phrases are clear, once you learned them "as words" - like "counter++". The question here was whether "add 1 to counter" is clearer than "counter++". It is NOT, except for a couple of million people speaking English. Ask a Chinese which one is clearer - I guess, if she doesn't understand English at all, the only problem she would have would be "what's a counter?". "counter++" - or $4a or "inca" are "words" that can be learned as "static language components". A language always should try to be "precise", so a programming language has all rights to have its own "tricks". Trying to "soap up" a programming language by using "human code" does NOT make things clearer, it only puts color on the front and creates the "effect" of being easier to understand. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Documentations Biggest Flaw
Hi, Dave, thanks A LOT for your summary. I agree on your observation, since I have encountered serious problems accepting the documentation of RR as "documentation" (rather than an "indexed glossary"). Revolution has the tools to have a great learning environment for the "Visual" and "Kinesthetic" learner. I would like to add: Revolution should respect developers that are used to different "documentation IDEs" (like HTML, plain text, Windows help files, amiga guide etc). I am using two monitors simultaneously and love to have docs on one and my work on the second. Unfortunately the fixed-size (at least "fixed width") doc-reader of Revolution makes it difficult to have on screen what I need. A plain text (or PDF or HTML etc) version of the docs being shipped along would easily help a lot of people creating their personal version of the docs. Besides: The search functions are critical. I have read complains about the search giving too many results for simple phrases - but a good search should allow you to LIMIT the results (or to filter them). If the doc-browser does not offer very good search functionality (and it does not, unfortunately) again a plain-text version would help getting people started. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"
Hi, Scott, This is an interesting point of view Marc, but I wonder if you are basing your point of view on your knowledge of C. Look at your example: Yes, absolutely. I did not make that clear enough, sorry. The basic for my "excurse" was, of course, that the "reader" (and the writer) of code is a developer, not a narrator. A developer will most likely be used to the standard term "++". That's the basic for me saying "it is clear". And, if I understand what are saying, Transcript does in fact return an error if you use incorrect variable types: put "xyz" into A add 7 to A Will return an error as 'A' is not a number. ... I think this is because Transcript does not have "pointers" available the same way other (programming) languages do. Again: The problem is (in my eyes) the ambivalence of Transcript sitting between human language (but not using it really, as synonyms would have to work then) and programming languages (but not using them as "standard" would have to be working then). I would offer that Transcript (and all xtalk for that matter) does not use redundancy to gain clearness, but instead uses redundancy to gain flexibility. I see your point, but have to disagree: If it was for flexibility, Transcript would accept tokens to be LEFT OUT, which is not the case (as far as I understand the docs, that is: You have to use filling words in special cases like "put *the* location of something into myNose"). Flexibility would allow to say "put something's location into myNose" (allowing a "human language" short term like the genitive apostroph to be used). I am not trying to argue against Transcript (just to make this clear once again), I just "stumbled" over "add 1 to pointer" being clearer than common programming code (pointer++). In my eyes, second to the somewhat irritating trial to be what a programming language should not be (inter-human communication), a difference in expectations WHO the reader (and writer) of code is may be the basic for this discussion: I expect a "professional developer" to be familiar with constructs like "counter++". This specific type of half-human-being would have to read more words and make a more complex interpretation (just like the runtime interpreter of Revolution) if he had to read "add 1 to counter", he would have to translate it into what the machine actually does (INCREMENTING a value - not "adding 1"). That's at least one step more, and developers, to my experience, are LAZY, if anything :-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"
Hi, Ken,
You say "add 1 to counter" - a lot clearer than "counter++", IMHO.
Thanks a lot for the hint.
Actually, it's not clearer: One of the first programming languages I
learned was Machine Language (not Assembler but the hex codes needed to
make something happen). There were codes that did "incremet" the content
of a register - which is exactly what "counter++" does: Increment a
value (by one). That's clear and there's no doubt about what is meant.
"add 1 to counter" is not clear since it is "human language". Does it
mean "increment the value of counter by 1" or does it mean "add another
counter to the counter I already have" (meaning: I have two counters
now)? Add 1 WHAT to counter - 1 banana or 1 bit? Consider "counter" to
be a pointer instead of a variable, so adding 1 to it leads to a
completely different result - as this example may show:
"counter" is a pointer to "12345".
printf("%s",counter) will output "12345" - just as expected.
Adding 1 to counter and printf-ing counter again will output "2345" now,
which is not the same as incrementing the _value_ of counter (type
casted to int).
To sum it up: I understand "Transcript" is trying to be a chimere of
"human language" (which uses redundancy to gain clearness) and
"progamming language" (which avoids redundancy to gain clearness). The
drawback is that you (the developer) have to EXACTLY now what the
language (Transcript) will do if you tell it something, whereas a
"classic" high level language like C will ONLY do what you tell it,
returning an error if you did not use the right variable type.
Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Twostep compiler?
Hi, please just ignore me if I am getting on your nerves - I have found a couple of hourse time to spend on Revolution so I am busy understanding the concepts behind it :-) I read that many of you encode the plain text of their scripts to hide them from customer's eyes. Why is the plain text included at all? Even ancient interpreter languages (like old VC20 basic) don't write the PLAIN TEXT into a file, they use TOKEN. A "print" would be a one-byte token. This also speeds up reading the file in (less data to read). The question I would like to ask is, since I HOPE Revolution isn't a "runtime-interpreter" but a modern "two-step" compiler that creates a bytecode from the "human readable code", which again is executed internally: Why isn't the bytecode saved as the executable code for standalone-applications? It's very likely that this bytecode is platform independant (it would be funny if it wasn't since you would have to compile a new runtime-executor for every platform then)... Anyway: Saving the "original source code" inside a runtime application does not make much sense: It needs a lot of space (all function names, variables etc don't have to be stored with their "human readable" fully qualified names, their code references would do nicely), the application has to compile the code every time it is run (what for? If it has to compile it anyway, the pre-executable code would do nicely for the application and it would be less "spyable") instead of directly using the bytecode - and it makes the application "hackable". I tried changing the "Transcript" code inside a "standalone application" to see if this is a security issue (meaning: I use a normal text editor that is binary safe - I am NOT using Revolution). IT IS. Changing the clear text code inside the application leads to the CHANGED CODE being executed - so it would be easy for an evil minded to put some nasty stuff into the application, the code to be executed is not checksum-protected. This would at least be a BIT more difficult if only the bytecode was stored in the standalone app, not the original source code. Again: Please excuse my potentially "offending" questions. I am trying to understand the technical implications of using Revolution and to find out why some issues seem ... somewhat "complicated", where they do not have to be complicated :-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Mac OS < X builder in Studio Version
Hi, I can remember having read something about the (missing) Mac OS Somehow I have problems following the logic of Mac OS Now to build a Mac OS If you know what chunk inside the "all-in-one-file" would contain the GUI layout and the code you could even write out the binary file of the application as ONE file (not seperated in the "runner" app and the code). If you could create the code in a way that it contains the GUI layout (which most likely should be possible) you don't even have to reverse-engineer the GUI data. As for Mac OS < X needing "resource forks": That's a standard task to solve since Apple released all relevant information about how to encode a "MAC BINARY" data stream that includes data-fork and resource-fork. So even a Windows program easily can create a fully resource-fork-embedded Mac OS So my question into the void is: Is there a Revolution stack already available to build Mac OS < X applications from a stack, using Revlution-Studio or do I have to create that myself? ;-) Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: repeat with each woord currentWord in myString
Moin, And so... (drum roll please)... it would be much more efficient if there were some way to grab each chunk sequentially, without the engine being forced to re-count from the beginning every time through. Thus, a special construct: repeat for each word someWord in someVariable doSomething someWord end repeat I don't know (yet) how fast the script interpreter is with (large) arrays, but a common way of handling large numbers of "chunks" like this is to put them into an array, if you really need to "reuse" them or access them randomly: put 1 into counter repeat for each word someWord in someVariable put someWord into wordarray[counter] increment counter by 1 # don't know if Transcript can do this, # the proper way would be to say "counter++", naturally end repeat This way you could easily access each word on a DIRECT way using "wordarray[whatever]". Ok, memory usage is doubled (since you put copies of the words into the array elements), but speed should be no problem any longer (if the interpreter handles arrays sufficiantly). Please note that my "Transcript" most likely won't work, but you should be able to get the idea, I hope. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Linux Builder problem: Wrong stdc++ libs linked
Hi, thanks for the hints regarding "encoding the script". To be true, the most important problem to me is Number One (tm) - is there a reliably working "standalone(sic!)" builder for Linux? One that lets the developer choose the "Linux flavour" the app is expected to run on? Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Linux Builder problem: Wrong stdc++ libs linked
Hi, I am "puzzling" around with the build engines and run into some problems: The linux "standalone" is not a standalone but requires various shared libraries. Unfortunately the application builder inside Revolution does not allow me to choose what stdc++ I am using on my Linux installation (there are at least three flavours available), which leads to the application that is built not being executable. A "normal" customer running only his KDE desktop will not even get an error message if he starts the application, as the "cannot find libstdc++.so.5" is only displayed on a shell. Is there a "full" Linux builder available (I am usually working in Windows) or do I have to create an installation instruction for customers which shared libraries have to be present etc? (This way I could not use Revolution for Linux at all, since those customers of mine that _do_ run Linux are desktop-only users and cannot deal with softlinking lib versions) Unfortunately the "documentation" inside Revolution is broken: Clicking on the requirements for Linux you get a non-reaction (Windows, MacOS etc. are all filled with content, Linux is not). My second problem is "Application size": Why is a simple "hello world" program about 1.6MB in size? Ok, the answer is simple: The complete interpreter is included in the standalone - and therefor the app's size won't change that much if you put a lot more functionality in it besides "hello world". I just wanted to point this out :-) My third problem is: The complete script is included in plain text inside the application. That's a "no-go" for me. I do support Open Source (financially and by participating in projects), but I want to decide for myself what apps are "open source" and which are not. Is there are a way to hinder the customer from peeking into the code - and, even more important, to avoid him easily seeing that he is dealing with an Interpreter and a script inside? Please don't get me wrong on this, I am not going to "abuse" Revolution and I am not "ashamed" to use such tools (if I was I wouldn't have bought it), I simply want to protect my IP. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Getting desperate with loops/repeats
Hi, I am getting really desperate trying to find out how Transcript works. Is there ANY WAY to simply send a break signal to a running script inside the IDE? I really hate having to kill the IDE completely using the Task Manager just because I cannot get out of a running loop because of a function not working as I hoped it would do. I am trying to port some very simple C-routines to Transcript, which, naturally, make heavy use of "while" or "for" loops. Since I do not understand Transcript at all I have to use "trial and error". This leads to loops not being "breaked" where needed - everywhere else this is no problem as I simply send a SIG_BREAK (or whatever) to the task running and have full control again. I simply don't find a way to "stop" the IDE running a script, but shouldn't a IDE be EXACTLY this: An instance to run a script in a "controled sandbox"? After having shoot down Revolution about 20 times now just because of "trial and error" understanding commands I am ready to accept any help you might offer. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution CRASH - was Re: about collision routines.
Hi, Geoff, Don't use the cursor keys ;-) erm... :-) What's happening when you use the cursor keys is that the stack is going to the next/previous card. There are only two cards. The other one is used as a scratch pad, for setting up the various graphics used in the game. Ok, but why does the IDE "crash" (lock up) when I _do_ use the cursor keys? On my machine, using the cursor keys goes to the other card, but can also switch back to the game without a problem. As stated: This works in a "standalone" compilation, but not in the IDE (here). And that's where my question targeted at: Why does it lock up? Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution CRASH - was Re: about collision routines.
Hi, some more information about the strange behavior: go stack url http://www.inspiredlogic.com/rev/starbattle.rev (I downloaded it, did not type the go stack command ...) It seems there is a "hidden function" embedded in the stack. Building a standalone from it one can use the cursor keys to switch on/off some kind of "debug window" with several buttons. Yet running the stack inside the IDE leads to the described lockup. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Revolution CRASH - was Re: about collision routines.
Hi, I downloaded the "asteroids" stack, being sure I could learn something from it. go stack url http://www.inspiredlogic.com/rev/starbattle.rev (I downloaded it, did not type the go stack command in the IDE since internet connections are EXTREMELY expensive here and I use a satellite proxy to quickly download what I need) In fact I did learn something: I started the stack, used the mouse to click on "Start Game", waited a few seconds until something appeared on the screen and press "cursor left". Result: Revolution used up to 95% of CPU time, the stack stopped working completely, restoring dev tools was not possible any longer and I had to kill the complete instance using the task manager. This is 100% reproducable on my main machine: Win XP Pro, 1GB RAM, 240 GB HD space (90GB free), 2.6GHz AMD Athlon, NVidia TI4600 video card, two monitors attached (Desktop spreading). I did not have time to dig into the code (since I don't understand Transcript anyway it would not help me much, I guess), but maybe someone on this list is able to explain what happens? Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: IPTC metadata
Hi, Terry,
OK this is a stab in the dark, but is anybody here familiar with what is
required to read/write IPTC style metadata to/from various type of media
files and if it is 'doable' (and practical) with Rev. Any pointers in
the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
Handling IPTC is my daily business. One of the applications I sell for a
living is a complex image import system running on Linux that handles
IPTC parsing for image agencies (along with various image modifications).
A good start to deal with IPTC is http://www.iptc.org - you could also
have a look into Adobe's Photoshop Imagefile description documents since
many applications simply use an APP13-marker ("Photoshop" chunk) to
include IPTC data into images. Unfortunately Adobe is moving towards XMP
now so all IPTC-talkers have to switch techniques some time soon.
Porting my simple IPTC-read/write routines to Runrev was a project I
wanted to do to get used to Transcript. I failed completely because I
don't get the switch with Transcript (it's not a programming language to
me), so I have to wait until my usual biz gives me more time to drink
lots of coffee and re-try to get warm with Transcript. BUT in general it
should be a very easy job to parse an IPTC struct, which is (embeded in
some chunk or another - like an APP13 chunk) basically this:
BYTE marker (0x1c)
BYTE tag (see IPTC doc)
BYTE field (see IPTC doc)
WORD length (MSB first)
DATA (of "length" BYTEs)
Depending on the surrounding structure you often have a
"Pascal-length-encoded string" just before the structure itself.
Sometimes applications vary the length of data sets to match even
offsets in the chunk.
Feel free to contact me if you need specific help for a project.
Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Upgrade version and pricing [was] Re: Fix it before moving ahead
Moin, Dar,
Are you suggesting that there be versions branch for every upgrade, that
is, that bugs found for 9.1.1 be fixed even after the company has
released 10.0.0?
I am afraid this is leading into a dead cycle.
I am not "Runrev". I cannot tell Runrev how to handle their versioning.
All I can say is that it is "common" in the software market (at least
that part that I know) to fix bugs in "actual versions" and not leaving
customers alone in the dark by simply pushing a version number up,
urging them (the customers) to buy an upgrade where they (still the
customers) only need a bugfix ("update"). Even the most-hated company
Microsoft is supporting "ancient" versions of their software according
to its lifetime definitions. I am NOT INTERESTED in version numbers at
all! I can even live with many ways how to NAME a version.
If your question should not be meant towards the NAMING but the SUPPORT:
Yes, I expect a company to do its best to support recent versions
according to their version lifetime policy. I do expect a company to
make it perfectly clear that you have to FREQUENTLY pay a specific
amount of money to be allowed to receive BUGFIXES, if this is the policy
of the company. If it is not, I expect the company to support
V9.7.4.1.88.24.1.29 of their product even if they have just released
V10.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.releasecandidate. Again: It is not the NAMING I am
interested in. It is simply partnership. As a developer I intend to
concentrate on MY products, not on the products I use to develop them.
If a product I use to develop my own stuff is faulty, I expect the
supplier of that tool to help - otherwise I would fall back to using
pirated copies (which I have given up many many years ago).
Once again I have to explain that I do not intend to criticise (sp?)
anyone (including Runrev), I was simply puzzled by some remarks on this
list. And naturally, if I find the will to get used to Transcript and if
I find bugs that need to be fixed, I will try my best to help Runrev to
fix the bugs. AND I do expect free updates that fix the bugs I helped
pointing out - of course. I really hope this is not taken as an offence!
Sorry for having been so long again. I really find it hard to explain my
basic understanding of the development universe :-) I am not alone
with this understanding of how the world is spinning - if I was I would
simply shut up, watch the list and giggle where necessary. But there
should be a difference between "Open Source puzzle your own stuff and
leave us alone" projects and commercial partnerships. I am paying for a
tool. If the tool is faulty, I expect it to be repaired FOR FREE. If I
need an UPGRADE (a tool with more bells and whistles) I am going to pay
for that as well. But I am not going to pay for the hammer head, if I
have bought a hammer and find out it does not come with a head.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Upgrade version and pricing [was] Re: Fix it before moving ahead
Moin, Jacqueline, One question to consider, though, is how many free updates the company can provide and still expect to stay afloat financially. Demanding unlimited free updates may not work to our advantage in the long run. If you have followed the discussion you may have noticed that "updates" are considered "bug fixes" by most participiants within this discussion, while "upgrades" are considered "feature enhancements" (meaning NEW features). Bugfixes have to be free and they have to be provided. It is not the fault of the customer that the producer of a product has introduced bugs, and he (the customer) should not be held liable for them (the bugs). He has to take care of the bugs HE introduces into HIS product, but should not be transformed into a "milk cow" for removal of bugs inside the software he paid money for. If the company in question "needs" to output so many updates that it (the company) can not continue to SELL UPGRADES, it (the company) has done something dramatically wrong when releasing the buggy version in the first place. Quality Assurance should be the chapter to study then. Sorry to repeat this once again, I did not intend to stress this so much. I really thought these basics are common understanding :-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Upgrade versus update - trying to close the discussion
Hi, all, just to make it clear: I am not going to "rant" aynone on the licensing politics of a single company. I do not debate with Microsoft (any more), I have given up talking to Apple completely long time ago about developer support. I am sure this list wouldn't be as vivid as it is if Runrev wouldn't be partners people like to work with. I think the license sentence I quoted is clear. I completely agree that it's unlikely I can jump to V3 as my free upgrade, but it is also very likely that the software developer (Runrev) will take care of previous (but still active) versions and bugfix them, even if they have released an upgrade. Otherwise they would push customers of "actual-version-minus-2" out of line, if they didn't fix bugs in that version any more. So, to sum it up: I tried to express my confidence in Runrev being a customer oriented company. I don't have any doubts that they are, otherwise I would not have paid money for a program that I currently do not USE AT ALL. Of course I expect "industry standard care", so I expect bugs to be fixed FOR FREE without having me to pay for upgrades after I received a single bug fixing version. Since I haven't used Revolution up to more than a few crashes yet (Win XP), I cannot tell what my personal needings will be in the future and NATURALLY I will contact the software company directly, not discuss my own problems in public BEFORE doing so. I simply found it notable that the license explanation I got allowed me for one free upgrade without a limitation to the next upgrade being available. I know there are companies who have acted like this before, so I wanted to say "Thank you" for this fair policy. I don't know how often bugfixes appear, I would say this depends on the quality of the product. I have had crashes, so I guess a (free!) bugfix update is soon to be released anyway. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Upgrade version and pricing [was] Re: Fix it before moving ahead
Moin, Geoff, Where did you read this? On this page it says "Next feature update included": I quoted the sentence from the license eMail I got from Runrev, so I consider it official, no matter what the website says ;-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Upgrade versus update
Hi, Doug, Of course, after a certain amount of time, expecting bug-fixes on older versions wouldn't be reasonable either. Every software product has a "supported lifetime". I agree. For example, if you found a bug in Windows 95, Microsoft would hardly be expected to provide a fix a this point in time. True. But Microsoft officially declares the product life time, so I always know what product I can insist being bug fixed on ;-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Upgrade versus update
Hi, Marian, Ah, but what happens when those bug fixes come bundled with major feature enhancements? Is that an update or an upgrade? Sounds like an upgrade to me. That's an "upgrade", as it carries "major enhancements". Please don't get me wrong on this: I am willing to pay for "upgrades" (that I need) and I am expecting free "updates" where necessary! Now if a company decides to NOT bugfix their product "for free" for the honest customer the result - at least on the long run - will be: less customers. That's just what the market is like: The way you deal with your customers defines the way they deal with you. I have bought my license from Runrev because I think Revolution is a product that may help me creating some specific products. I haven't really started using it (as I really get headache from Transcript), so I cannot tell if I "need" an update or an upgrade right now :-) I like your idea about having a choice in which upgrade you want to take. I hope you'll post on this list what happens when you try to use your free upgrade to go from 2.x to 3.x, because I suspect this is an eventuality that RunRev had not anticipated and had not intended. Clever reading on your part! Well, that's just what the license says: "Your key is valid for the current release and one upgrade." It does not say "and the next upgrade available", it clearly says "and one upgrade". So it is my choice which upgrade I want to have for free: if there are major enhancements in the next version it's most likely that I choose that. If the next-plus-one version is two years ahead, it's very likely that I also choose the next version as well. But if the frequency of upgrades should be three/four a year, it's very likely that I do not upgrade to the very next but one of the following versions. According to the license that's what the key is for: "one free upgrade". I consider this a fair license and I am going to change some of my own licenses according to this idea. Back to "updates": Software nearly never ever is "bug-free". A cooperative way to keep your customers satisfied is handing out "patches" (or call them "updates"), because this shows: You do care for what you have done. That's true especially for companies that have limited resources: The smaller your budget is the more important it is to have satisfied customers (I tend to call them "partners") that are willing to pay for "real upgrades", because you fix the bugs you made in the product you sold them. Only big companies can allow themselves to ignore that they have made mistakes (do I need to name some?) and "sell every bugfix as an upgrade". From the cooperative side this leads to short-term partnerships, and it's up to the company to decide if they prefer that to long-term partnerships with customers/partners that pay for "real upgrades" because you care for your product. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Upgrade version and pricing [was] Re: Fix it before moving ahead
Hi, I have been wondering about this as well, having just gotten a studio license with 2.12 and finding out that the majority of the bug database is scheduled two updates away and only being entitled to one. Of course this was an issue for me as well before I decided to support the company by paying the studio license fee. But in fact the policy says "you are entitled to ONE free upgrade" - it does NOT SAY "you are entitled to ONE DIRECTLY FOLLOWING upgrade". So I just shrugged and told myself: Ok, I just get that upgrade for free that I want - I could wait until V3.0 and get that for free, since I have ONE UPGRADE FREE. Of course (being a full time software developer myself) I expect bug fixes to be free of charge anyhow. There is a clear difference between "updates" (bug fixes) and "upgrades" (as mentioned in the license), the later being major feature enhancements. So I am very sure that Runrev will behave like most software companies (the so called evil ones included) and hand out bugfixes free of charge. No computer software is "free of bugs" and as a customer AND developer I am absolutely sure that Runrev will not be any different to most serious companies: Updates are free for registered users, upgrades aren't. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Saving snapshots to files
Moin, Wilhelm, I am trying to learn "Transcript" and I still seem to learn better by looking at working code, if the documentation is as incompatible to my brain as Revolution's doc is. put char (LastSlash + 1) to Laenge of LongDateiName into Dateiname put char 1 to (LastSlash - 1) of LongDateiName into NewDirectory This smells like "basename" and "dirname" to me. Aren't these standard function available in Revolution? I would like to have a list of standard-functions listed against their Revolution versions (repeating the discussion about "reinventing the wheel"), perhaps this also would help those list members that try to port C-code to Transcript? Your routine to search for slashes might run into trouble if the user wanted to include slashes in his filename, it would have to take care of the platform (I guess) and eventually even look out for quotation marks (as slashes in filenames are allowed everywhere as long as they are escaped correctly). Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: DVD for RunRev?
Moin, i thought tape was the worst. Tape is the best tested, longest lasting backup media currently available. There is not enough experience available about how long DVDR will keep their data, although enough users already have already reported problems with "cheap DVD media" (whatever that is). It is a proven fact that CDR do not last longer than a couple of years - they work well for music (since there is an error recovery algorhythm for that), but data is a problem and long-term backup strategies always will copy CDR to tape at some point in time. If you want to store your data SAFE, CDR or DVDR surely are the second worst choice, HDs being the worst. If you want comfort, the line is reversed. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Problem with Windows but not with Mac (I know, it's usual!!)
Hi, just to make sure: I think Klaus is right -- don't use accented chars for control names! It may be OK within a single platform -- but causes problems if "translated" to other platforms... (as é > È ;-))) It is NOT a problem of windows but of using various platforms running different code pages. In fact: The MAC is the one that uses an abstruse variation of ISO code (called "Mac-Roman"), not the "PC" ;-) I think this should be considered an issue for documentation and eventually the compiler part: Dealing with platforms that use different codepages not only creates problems in content (where Revolution seems to take care of it) but also in commenting the code and, naturally, in variable names. I wouldn't use a variable named "Fläche" on Windows either, because porting that code to AIX might bring trouble with it. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Problem with Windows but not with Mac. Bug??
Hi, François, I'll try it but it's difficult because some text (the pure code, the variablies) has to be without accent, and the text for the user is with! I understand. But "Text" does not belong "hardcoded" into a script (in my eyes, at least) - it should remain in resources outside the code. Otherwise translating content would be very difficult. So when keeping content and code apart from each other (which should be good programming style) you would not have that problem - of course that does not help you _now_ ;-) Otherwise the conversion script should look for words inside quotes, because _that_ always should be content (not variables). Putting variables into quotes may make sense inside Transcript but it surely isn't good style. So if your conversion script takes care of "inside-quotes" versus "outside-quotes" you easily get an accent-free code ;-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Problem with Windows but not with Mac. Bug??
Hi, François, Did you try to NOT use accented chars for your names? -> "Travail ecrit" But it's a reel problem! I have to rewrite all my code to change the accentued words? Well, creating code or content for cross platform use always will have you bothering with accents, Umlauten etc. It would be wise to respect codepages on platforms in the first place. Now as for rewriting lots of code: As far as I see "rev-files" are plain text. You just need to write a little parser that replaces accented characters with not-accented. To make it more secure (if you used variables WITH and WITHOUT accent) you could replace an accented character with a two-character mapping. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: PDF
Hi, Also, Photoshop will open image PDFs and allow export to anything. very often it will not. In general "Ghostscript" is a rock steady solution to do PDF-rastering on the fly. As far as I know it runs smoothly even on Mac OS X (it surely does on all Win32 systems, BSD, Linux, AIX etc). If you only need a single PDF rastered you could even do it manually: Display it using Acroreader and do screenshots for e.g. quarters of the complete image. If you need a general solution I'd use Ghostscript. It even partly handles encrypted PDF etc. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: german gramm lesson II, was Re: [ANN] Tutti 3D :-)
Moin, Klaus, Gz, c'mon, be a bit generous, brotha! ;-) Smile and and do some mis-spelling :-D You are absolutely right as far as "German lessons" are concerned - but since Transcript expects me to be very exact in using the right wording for it to do what I expect it to, I thought that inter-human communication could do with a bit of "perfection" as well ;-> Well, the reason for me jumping in on this was that I remembered you telling someone else that "many Germans cannot talk German themselves" ... :*) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [ANN] Tutti 3D
Hi, Solche schmeichelnde Wörter. Ich werde in Verlegenheit gebracht. (Using BabelFish for translation, so the above is probably wrong.) Guess what? This is really correct german :-) Actually it's not, a "Demonstrativpronomen" like "solche" goes with an "Akkusativobjekt", which would be "Solche schmeichelndeN Wörter". And "Wörter" would mean isolated words (meaning each word on its own), while "Worte" would mean, although sounding a bit archaic, the complete sentence. But for a "Babelfish" translation it's near to brilliant :-) Examples like this will help me getting used to "Transcript", so thanks as well from my side (still not convinced that "Transcript" will ever work for me ) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Serious applications
Hi, Ah you are right, my bad. Nonetheless at 3000+ pages, with no Table of Contents, it's of limited utility, IMHO. My opinion is that with this much docs, hypertext is the best way to read it. Your opinion is noted, Sir ;-) To be true: I find a 2970 pages document (the one I downloaded from sonsofthunder) MUCH MORE helpful than the (to me: useless) docs inside the IDE. I am able to press CTRL-F to FIND the term I need on one of my monitors, which does not work in all occurances of "Help browser" inside the Revolution IDE (most of the time I get a "Bing" error sound when I am searching for expressions). This is a PERSONAL problem, not a generic fault! It is my personal habit to read docs in general, mostly before using the application - and the way the docs are presented in Revolution does not suit my own workflow. That's why I asked for "real documents". I understand those do not exist "inside" the product shipped - and I will try to use one of the mentioned doc-exporters. Again: I am only trying to follow your suggestion and try to learn the language. It is my fault that I find it difficult by starring at very tiny windows with two sentences in it :-)) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Serious applications
Moin, Ken, I have an earlier version of the Rev docs (1.1.1) in text, DOC and PDF formats here: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm Thanks a lot! So I have something to read tonight :-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Serious applications
Moin, Thomas, You can buy a printed manual from REV or you can buy a book from Don Shafer. All I want to do is print out the manual that I already have here, included in the Revolution application. I cannot deal with the very very small windows displaying one or two sentences and having to click with the mouse 30 times a minute just to read the next paragraph, I tend to not use the mouse at all if possible. All I want is the text of this manual in a STANDARD format (plain text, rtf, TeX, HTML, PDF, whatever) - all I want to do is giving Transcript a chance: I want to learn it - the usual way by reading a usual document. I have no problem with BUYING Don Shafers book as soon as I have decided to BUY the application it describes! But please forgive if I tend to do things in a seemingly more logical way :-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Serious applications
Sorry, So may be the trick is to convince them that they DO NOT need to learn anything new... IOW that Rev is based on concepts they already know... one trick could be to answer my question (posted twice): Where can I find a manual that I can read/print out "normally" without having to use the built-in-browser? You could "convince" at least one dumb old fashioned developer by simply giving him a chance to learn: me. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / Level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060 Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Serious applications
Hi, Rob, Productivity? The following is not a rhetorical question: I asked this once before & did not see an answer posted. Does the CW, or any C debugger, debug at the source code level? Can the C testing environment take you directly to the line of code generating a runtime error? ...and let you change the offending code, close the script, and continue testing without recompiling & relinking? Depending on the environment you use: Yes, this is possible. We used SAS C for some years and it allows you to include line information in the object chunk. Since C is not an interpreted but a compiled language you always have to recompile, naturally. And: C is not the only "choice". For prototyping or even for online applications, where speed isn't the major issue, I use PHP. Although it has its drawbacks I found it very productive - from the first hour I used it. And: Again, I am sure that taking some time (depending on the intelligence available - I am dumb, unfortunately, I do not like to learn new things in general) Transcript must be the holy bible. I can not judge about it, currently (sic!) it is a closed book for me. That's all I am saying. The question starting this thread was for "serious apps" - aside from this terminus not being "defined" I tried to express my own problems. I apologize that I sounded like attacking Transcript - I did not mean to, as you all noticed, I can not judge about Transcript. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Serious applications
Hi, Rob, Look a little harder, Marc. I am the hardest looker :-) Productivity? Yes. Meaning the time needed to solve a problem. How many lines of C does it take to replicate the functionality of the "new stack" and "new card" commands? A link to the correct library - that's about one line, I'd say. How many lines of C does it take to "get word 3 of item 6 of line 17 of someText? Not taking into account that I do never need to get "word 3 of item 6 of line 17" but usually use some regexp for such tasks - I'd say a call of the right function in the correct library takes about one line. Can you change a library routine, replace the library file, and rerun all your C applications that use the library without relinking & redistributing the standalone? I can & do with Transcript. Yes, by using shared libraries - or, depending on the actual task, using a plug in system. You won't appreciate the benefits of Transcript until you become more familiar with it. The C way of doing things is not the only way, and I submit it is not the best way available. I totally agree on that. As I have said before: I was not (and I still am not trying to be) saying anything AGAINST Transcript. Since "programming" really should be the SMALLEST task in a complete project the language only _is_ a small component. To me, personally, Transcript currently is a black box. That does not mean that it is "useless", again, I never said that. But C or C++ isn't a language on its own, as you depict. You always access a large pool of libraries, you (surely?) don't reinvent wheels, tires or women every time you start coding something. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Pricing
Hi, Thomas, > I think the word was slow at first but now has picked up speed and the > switch is happening very fast now. that's why I wrote: It is hard to predict. Maybe it is different on your side of the Atlantic ;-) The publishers I work with are generally "old fashioned", some of them love working in Quark 2 ... well, "some" is not the right work, but at least those exist. I have met a lot of Windows users that were so intrigued by OSX and it's productivity increases that they have started to include Macs in with their suite of Windows computer only offices. (and most of the old arguments they had are no longer there and they are starting to admit that , at least to me) That's fine - and the exact oposite to what I am experiencing. Macs are more and more "fleeing" the offices where I walk in and out. Personally I can understand that, but that is a completely different story. As far as the topic of this thread is concerned: I still think it is hard to predict what OS on Mac will be dominant for the next 18 months. I tend to say it's "Mac OS Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RunRev Pricing
Hi, Dar, This is important for me to know. That some percentage are OS X and some greater percentage are pre OS X means little of those of the older OS are not spending money. Speaking from experiences with my customers (publishers, marketing agencies) I can say: Many MAC users still refuse to switch to Mac OS X because their applications are not available or suffer from first version problems. Many other MAC users cannot switch over due to incapable hardware resources and prefer to continue using their machines (as these are not faulty) with software they know. Most of those customers of mine that have switched noticed a (partly dramatical) increase in support costs for their Mac clients. Some have therefor switched back to Mac OS 9, which results in paragraph one observations (stability problems with applications and or users - user error, please replace!) With Quark and Photoshop slowly coming along for Mac OS X the pressure to switch to X is increasing. The "installed base" of Mac machines is quite large at those customers, so I would tend to say: You will have Mac OS <=9 users at least for the next 2 years at a ratio of at least 40-60% of all installed Macs. It is difficult to predict, though, since I do have customers leaving the Mac completely for PCs due to cost/support ratios, partly performance issues and others. But that has nothing to do with your question, I admit. No, those not switching are not generally refusing to INVEST. They are just refusing to go for the latest Xmas-tree just because it's new. They have working tools that they have learned to know for years - and one pro of the Mac platform always has been: If you know one application, you know all of them. Getting Mac users to "love" a new system (which Mac OS X is) is harder than getting a PC user to admit that a Mac has advantages at all :-) A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Serious applications
Hi, Anybody could point me to samples of "big" applications developed with Revolution? Details? Reports? Links? check out hemmingway, but i have a feeling the majority of large projects are internal, or still being built.. being new to Revolution I won't be able to actually ANSWER the question. But perhaps my impressions can be a hint: I think the GUI building system is quite good, to me it seems better than most GUI builders I know. There may be tools that have more bells and whistles, but creating a standard interface or even a somewhat "bloated" with Revolution is very productive. What seems to be a major drawback, a REAL PROBLEM in my eyes, is the programming "language". I do not intend to call it "bad", don't get me wrong here - but you are talking about "big projects" (or "serious applications", which I cannot define). You would always have to have developers that can "talk transcript", which is not as likely as finding professionals that speak C, C++, Java etc. pp. Personally I find it very hard to "learn" Transcript (being a stubborn Assembler/machine language/C/C++/Shellscript/PHP programmer that hasn't learned anything serious) and currently this might be the reason for me to not use Revolution at all - to me this is a question of productivity: I have to learn a language that does not give me any benefits over those I am already familiar with AND I would have to limit external developers to those being able to handle this language as well. When I am talking about "big projects" I am talking about 1-2 years of development time (full time) with at least 2 developers envolved. I do not know if this is the right scale for Revolution projects at all, but I am sure it could be considered possible. So: Propably "serious applications" are not a problem to do with Revolution if you have the time and money to get your code-slaves speak Transcript. A well designed project only needs about 30% of time spent in writing code, the rest is concept, design etc - so the language is only a component of the "code processing" part of the project, with only is less than a third of the project, meaning: Revolution is just as good as any other IDE - and only just as bad as any poorly designed project. Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Binary objects
Hi, Chipp, > You might want to check out the section titled "Graphics and Images" at: thanks a lot for the links, I'll dig my way through them! Also, consider searching the list via Google for the subject "JPEG Header" Thanks, I'm quite familar with those (at least) already ;-) Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Binary objects
Hi, revoluzzers :-) I am "brand new" to Revolution, my first contacts with hypercard-like tools also were my last: Toolbook on Windows, about 12 years ago. I am currently trying to get comfortable with Revolution - or, more precisely, with "Transcript" - to minimize the work needed to get cross-platform tools. As a "starter" I plan to "port" some older tools I did in C, which read in JPEG files and parse the attached headers (JFIF etc) according to some specific rules, handling Photoshop-chunks etc. I understand that rewriting the decoding in "Transcript" would be best to get a cross-platform version. I have to admit that I find Transcript extremely difficult to read, at least imagining a larger project with complex "parsing functions". Most likely this is a question of getting used to Transcript. My question now is: I have browsed the documentation but did not find a detailed description about how to handle binary objects. So that is why I described my "test project" above: I need to read in a JPEG file (no display needed or wanted), eventually decode it into a bitmap memory area (I understand this decoded bitmap is available as an object after the JPEG has been read in, I found something about that in the docs). And I need access to all header chunks in the file, so I can parse them. I would love to have a "C-like" language for that, since I am used to that for about 20 years or longer, but learning something new may be fun :-) Could someone here point me to the right place in the documentation where handling binary objects and parsing them is described? Erm, and: Is there a plain text version of the docs? I find the short chapters and the help-browser (on Windows) some kind of unsuportive :-) Many thanks for your assistance, Marc Albrecht A.C.T. / level-2 Glinder Str. 2 27432 Ebersdorf Deutschland Tel. 04765-830060 Fax. 04765-830064 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
