RE: Opinions on Struts Layout

[David G. Friedman]

By "native" parts I meant that it is possible some features of Struts
Layount might have been added to Struts since struts-layout was started.
*shrug*

Regards,
David

-Original Message-
From: Derek Broughton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 11:06 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout


On Friday 10 December 2004 16:38, David G. Friedman wrote:
> Derek,
>
> If you made a list of bullet points for the parts of struts layout you
like
> most, perhaps we listmembers could point you in the direction of native
> Struts parts or equivalent add-ons.

I don't really see how there could be "native Struts parts", since it's just
an extension of Struts, but what I've been using is:
,  - really simplify layout of row-oriented but
non-tabular data

input tags - I haven't a clue how it's done, but if they fail validation,
the
corresponding message is displayed with the input field rather than just
using .

 for collapsing menus

I haven't yet used  but it looks quite handy for tabular
data.

For tabbed panels, I found struts-menu more useful.
--
derek

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Re: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Derek Broughton]

On Friday 10 December 2004 16:38, David G. Friedman wrote:
> Derek,
>
> If you made a list of bullet points for the parts of struts layout you like
> most, perhaps we listmembers could point you in the direction of native
> Struts parts or equivalent add-ons.

I don't really see how there could be "native Struts parts", since it's just 
an extension of Struts, but what I've been using is:
,  - really simplify layout of row-oriented but 
non-tabular data

input tags - I haven't a clue how it's done, but if they fail validation, the 
corresponding message is displayed with the input field rather than just 
using .  

 for collapsing menus

I haven't yet used  but it looks quite handy for tabular 
data.

For tabbed panels, I found struts-menu more useful.
-- 
derek

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Re: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Hubert Rabago]

Oh, you mean THAT link.

Yeah, maybe it can.  Or at least to the section that points to the
list of available archives.

I once started on the main struts page and tried to find the page that
explained how to contribute patches, and got thoroughly lost.  Sure I
know how to find a lot more stuff now, but I remember getting lost in
the site several times as a noob.

H

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:11:33 -0500, Brantley Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, but there's a link in the navigation menu right on the main page
> at http://struts.apache.org that points to that other unsearchable
> archive.  To get to the link that you're talking about required at least
> three page views.  I can't be the only person who would opt to take the
> path of least resistance if I'm looking up a quick fact; I'd click on
> the link on the main page every single time.
> 
> IMHO, that link should be changed.  It's worse than useless, since it
> points to a site that appears to be the only official mailing list
> archive, and that site has limited functionality.  Now, if you're an
> occasional list user and you don't know about the other list archive,
> you'd immediately fire off an email to the list not knowing that you're
> duplicating some other message (and risking receiving STFW and RTFM/RTFL
> replies).
> 
> 
> 
> B.
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hubert Rabago [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:55 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> >
> > It already does.  It's the third option on
> > http://struts.apache.org/mail.html
> >
> > H
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:53:19 -0500, Brantley Hobbs
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > Ahhh...
> > >
> > > Perhaps the link for the list archives on the struts project page
> should
> > > point to this URL!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > B.
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: David G. Friedman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:52 PM
> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout
> > > >
> > > > Try the search key "struts-layout" at his archive:
> > > >
> > > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user
> > > >
> > > > I just performed that search and numerous results
> > > > show up for that "word".
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > David

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RE: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Brantley Hobbs]

Yeah, but there's a link in the navigation menu right on the main page
at http://struts.apache.org that points to that other unsearchable
archive.  To get to the link that you're talking about required at least
three page views.  I can't be the only person who would opt to take the
path of least resistance if I'm looking up a quick fact; I'd click on
the link on the main page every single time.

IMHO, that link should be changed.  It's worse than useless, since it
points to a site that appears to be the only official mailing list
archive, and that site has limited functionality.  Now, if you're an
occasional list user and you don't know about the other list archive,
you'd immediately fire off an email to the list not knowing that you're
duplicating some other message (and risking receiving STFW and RTFM/RTFL
replies).



B.

> -Original Message-
> From: Hubert Rabago [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:55 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> 
> It already does.  It's the third option on
> http://struts.apache.org/mail.html
> 
> H
> 
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:53:19 -0500, Brantley Hobbs
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Ahhh...
> >
> > Perhaps the link for the list archives on the struts project page
should
> > point to this URL!
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > B.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: David G. Friedman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:52 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout
> > >
> > > Try the search key "struts-layout" at his archive:
> > >
> > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user
> > >
> > > I just performed that search and numerous results
> > > show up for that "word".
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > David
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Brantley Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:49 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
> > > Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the tip about the spelling.  I did some googling, but
> > didn't
> > > really see too much information about struts-layout as compared to
> > some
> > > of the other technologies, which is really what I'm after.
> > >
> > > Also, does anyone know of a way to search the lists?  Every time I
use
> > > the search page
> > >
> >
(http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > ts.apache.org), I get "Text search not available for this list".
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > B.
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:44 PM
> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> > > >
> > > > Look under struts-layout.  The results of googling for
struts-layout
> > > > are somewhat surprising and you might want to do that too.
Naming
> > is
> > > > so important.  Why Struts Layout went with struts-layout is a
> > mystery
> > > > to me.  Wrong side of the brain problem, I guess.
> > > >
> > > > Jack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:41:50 -0800, Dakota Jack
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > If you look at the Struts dev an user lists, Brantley, you
will
> > find
> > > > > quite a bit on this too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jack
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:03:59 -0500, Brantley Hobbs
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When our organization was making the decision between .NET
and
> > > J2EE,
> > > > we
> > > > > > were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms
were.
> > > The
> > > > > > ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very
> > attractive,
> > > > simply
> > > > > > because our developers were hired to develop; not generate
HTM

RE: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Brantley Hobbs]

Ahhh...


Perhaps the link for the list archives on the struts project page should
point to this URL!

Thanks!

B.

> -Original Message-
> From: David G. Friedman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:52 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout
> 
> Try the search key "struts-layout" at his archive:
> 
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user
> 
> I just performed that search and numerous results
> show up for that "word".
> 
> Regards,
> David
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brantley Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:49 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
> Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip about the spelling.  I did some googling, but
didn't
> really see too much information about struts-layout as compared to
some
> of the other technologies, which is really what I'm after.
> 
> Also, does anyone know of a way to search the lists?  Every time I use
> the search page
>
(http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ts.apache.org), I get "Text search not available for this list".
> 
> Thanks,
> B.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:44 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> >
> > Look under struts-layout.  The results of googling for struts-layout
> > are somewhat surprising and you might want to do that too.  Naming
is
> > so important.  Why Struts Layout went with struts-layout is a
mystery
> > to me.  Wrong side of the brain problem, I guess.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:41:50 -0800, Dakota Jack
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > If you look at the Struts dev an user lists, Brantley, you will
find
> > > quite a bit on this too.
> > >
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:03:59 -0500, Brantley Hobbs
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi all!
> > > >
> > > > When our organization was making the decision between .NET and
> J2EE,
> > we
> > > > were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.
> The
> > > > ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very
attractive,
> > simply
> > > > because our developers were hired to develop; not generate HTML
> (as
> > I'm
> > > > sure most of you were).  What eventually did .NET in (at least
for
> us)
> > > > was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility afforded
by
> J2EE
> > > > (i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the
most
> > > > part).
> > > >
> > > > Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took
> the
> > > > J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been
looking
> for
> > > > more streamlined ways of developing the view.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> > > > (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps
I've
> been
> > > > living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd
> never
> > > > heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed
for
> with
> > > > MS's canned "web controls".
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How
does
> it
> > > > compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation
layer
> > > > projects like Velocity, etc.
> > > >
> > > > One idea that I really like about struts layout is that it's
tied
> > > > directly back to struts, so it seems that it might be a more
> elegant
> > > > solution than mixing technologies.
> > > >
> > > > Any input?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Brantley Hobbs
> > > >
> > > >
> -
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
> > >
> > > ~Native Proverb~
> > >

RE: Opinions on Struts Layout

[David G. Friedman]

Try the search key "struts-layout" at his archive:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user

I just performed that search and numerous results
show up for that "word".

Regards,
David

-Original Message-
From: Brantley Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:49 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout


Thanks for the tip about the spelling.  I did some googling, but didn't
really see too much information about struts-layout as compared to some
of the other technologies, which is really what I'm after.

Also, does anyone know of a way to search the lists?  Every time I use
the search page
(http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ts.apache.org), I get "Text search not available for this list".

Thanks,
B.

> -Original Message-
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:44 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> 
> Look under struts-layout.  The results of googling for struts-layout
> are somewhat surprising and you might want to do that too.  Naming is
> so important.  Why Struts Layout went with struts-layout is a mystery
> to me.  Wrong side of the brain problem, I guess.
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:41:50 -0800, Dakota Jack
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > If you look at the Struts dev an user lists, Brantley, you will find
> > quite a bit on this too.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:03:59 -0500, Brantley Hobbs
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > Hi all!
> > >
> > > When our organization was making the decision between .NET and
J2EE,
> we
> > > were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.
The
> > > ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very attractive,
> simply
> > > because our developers were hired to develop; not generate HTML
(as
> I'm
> > > sure most of you were).  What eventually did .NET in (at least for
us)
> > > was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility afforded by
J2EE
> > > (i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the most
> > > part).
> > >
> > > Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took
the
> > > J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been looking
for
> > > more streamlined ways of developing the view.
> > >
> > > Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> > > (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps I've
been
> > > living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd
never
> > > heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed for
with
> > > MS's canned "web controls".
> > >
> > > Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does
it
> > > compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
> > > projects like Velocity, etc.
> > >
> > > One idea that I really like about struts layout is that it's tied
> > > directly back to struts, so it seems that it might be a more
elegant
> > > solution than mixing technologies.
> > >
> > > Any input?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Brantley Hobbs
> > >
> > >
-
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
> >
> > ~Native Proverb~
> >
> > "Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be
> crows."
> >
> > ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~
> >
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
> 
> ~Native Proverb~
> 
> "Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be
> crows."
> 
> ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Hubert Rabago]

It already does.  It's the third option on http://struts.apache.org/mail.html 

H

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:53:19 -0500, Brantley Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ahhh...
> 
> Perhaps the link for the list archives on the struts project page should
> point to this URL!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> B.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: David G. Friedman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:52 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout
> >
> > Try the search key "struts-layout" at his archive:
> >
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user
> >
> > I just performed that search and numerous results
> > show up for that "word".
> >
> > Regards,
> > David
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brantley Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:49 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
> > Subject: RE: Opinions on Struts Layout
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the tip about the spelling.  I did some googling, but
> didn't
> > really see too much information about struts-layout as compared to
> some
> > of the other technologies, which is really what I'm after.
> >
> > Also, does anyone know of a way to search the lists?  Every time I use
> > the search page
> >
> (http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ts.apache.org), I get "Text search not available for this list".
> >
> > Thanks,
> > B.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:44 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> > >
> > > Look under struts-layout.  The results of googling for struts-layout
> > > are somewhat surprising and you might want to do that too.  Naming
> is
> > > so important.  Why Struts Layout went with struts-layout is a
> mystery
> > > to me.  Wrong side of the brain problem, I guess.
> > >
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:41:50 -0800, Dakota Jack
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > If you look at the Struts dev an user lists, Brantley, you will
> find
> > > > quite a bit on this too.
> > > >
> > > > Jack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:03:59 -0500, Brantley Hobbs
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Hi all!
> > > > >
> > > > > When our organization was making the decision between .NET and
> > J2EE,
> > > we
> > > > > were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.
> > The
> > > > > ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very
> attractive,
> > > simply
> > > > > because our developers were hired to develop; not generate HTML
> > (as
> > > I'm
> > > > > sure most of you were).  What eventually did .NET in (at least
> for
> > us)
> > > > > was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility afforded
> by
> > J2EE
> > > > > (i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the
> most
> > > > > part).
> > > > >
> > > > > Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took
> > the
> > > > > J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been
> looking
> > for
> > > > > more streamlined ways of developing the view.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> > > > > (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps
> I've
> > been
> > > > > living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd
> > never
> > > > > heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed
> for
> > with
> > > > > MS's canned "web controls".
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How
> does
> > it
> > > > > compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation
> layer
> > > > > projects like Velocity, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > One idea that I really like about struts layout 

RE: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Brantley Hobbs]

Thanks for the tip about the spelling.  I did some googling, but didn't
really see too much information about struts-layout as compared to some
of the other technologies, which is really what I'm after.

Also, does anyone know of a way to search the lists?  Every time I use
the search page
(http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ts.apache.org), I get "Text search not available for this list".

Thanks,
B.

> -Original Message-
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:44 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> 
> Look under struts-layout.  The results of googling for struts-layout
> are somewhat surprising and you might want to do that too.  Naming is
> so important.  Why Struts Layout went with struts-layout is a mystery
> to me.  Wrong side of the brain problem, I guess.
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:41:50 -0800, Dakota Jack
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > If you look at the Struts dev an user lists, Brantley, you will find
> > quite a bit on this too.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:03:59 -0500, Brantley Hobbs
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > Hi all!
> > >
> > > When our organization was making the decision between .NET and
J2EE,
> we
> > > were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.
The
> > > ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very attractive,
> simply
> > > because our developers were hired to develop; not generate HTML
(as
> I'm
> > > sure most of you were).  What eventually did .NET in (at least for
us)
> > > was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility afforded by
J2EE
> > > (i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the most
> > > part).
> > >
> > > Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took
the
> > > J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been looking
for
> > > more streamlined ways of developing the view.
> > >
> > > Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> > > (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps I've
been
> > > living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd
never
> > > heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed for
with
> > > MS's canned "web controls".
> > >
> > > Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does
it
> > > compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
> > > projects like Velocity, etc.
> > >
> > > One idea that I really like about struts layout is that it's tied
> > > directly back to struts, so it seems that it might be a more
elegant
> > > solution than mixing technologies.
> > >
> > > Any input?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Brantley Hobbs
> > >
> > >
-
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
> >
> > ~Native Proverb~
> >
> > "Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be
> crows."
> >
> > ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~
> >
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
> 
> ~Native Proverb~
> 
> "Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be
> crows."
> 
> ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Dakota Jack]

Look under struts-layout.  The results of googling for struts-layout
are somewhat surprising and you might want to do that too.  Naming is
so important.  Why Struts Layout went with struts-layout is a mystery
to me.  Wrong side of the brain problem, I guess.

Jack


On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:41:50 -0800, Dakota Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you look at the Struts dev an user lists, Brantley, you will find
> quite a bit on this too.
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:03:59 -0500, Brantley Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi all!
> >
> > When our organization was making the decision between .NET and J2EE, we
> > were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.  The
> > ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very attractive, simply
> > because our developers were hired to develop; not generate HTML (as I'm
> > sure most of you were).  What eventually did .NET in (at least for us)
> > was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility afforded by J2EE
> > (i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the most
> > part).
> >
> > Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took the
> > J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been looking for
> > more streamlined ways of developing the view.
> >
> > Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> > (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps I've been
> > living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd never
> > heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed for with
> > MS's canned "web controls".
> >
> > Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does it
> > compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
> > projects like Velocity, etc.
> >
> > One idea that I really like about struts layout is that it's tied
> > directly back to struts, so it seems that it might be a more elegant
> > solution than mixing technologies.
> >
> > Any input?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brantley Hobbs
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> 
> "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
> 
> ~Native Proverb~
> 
> "Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows."
> 
> ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~
> 


-- 


"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."

~Native Proverb~

"Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows."

~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~

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Re: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Dakota Jack]

If you look at the Struts dev an user lists, Brantley, you will find
quite a bit on this too.

Jack


On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:03:59 -0500, Brantley Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> When our organization was making the decision between .NET and J2EE, we
> were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.  The
> ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very attractive, simply
> because our developers were hired to develop; not generate HTML (as I'm
> sure most of you were).  What eventually did .NET in (at least for us)
> was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility afforded by J2EE
> (i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the most
> part).
> 
> Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took the
> J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been looking for
> more streamlined ways of developing the view.
> 
> Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps I've been
> living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd never
> heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed for with
> MS's canned "web controls".
> 
> Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does it
> compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
> projects like Velocity, etc.
> 
> One idea that I really like about struts layout is that it's tied
> directly back to struts, so it seems that it might be a more elegant
> solution than mixing technologies.
> 
> Any input?
> 
> Thanks,
> Brantley Hobbs
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 


-- 


"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."

~Native Proverb~

"Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows."

~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~

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RE: Opinions on Struts Layout

[David G. Friedman]

Derek,

If you made a list of bullet points for the parts of struts layout you like
most, perhaps we listmembers could point you in the direction of native
Struts parts or equivalent add-ons.

Regards,
David

-Original Message-
From: Derek Broughton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:07 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout


On Friday 10 December 2004 14:03, Brantley Hobbs wrote:
>
> Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps I've been
> living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd never
> heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed for with
> MS's canned "web controls".
>
> Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does it
> compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
> projects like Velocity, etc.

No experience - I just ran across struts layout, too, and find it's working
well for some of what I want to do.  I know nothing about JSF, and tried to
get into Velocity and it seemed like just too much work.  I think that's
really because I got some bad advice, early, but I gave up on it.

The responses you've received so far strike me as odd - which makes me think
none of the respondents have actually looked at Struts Layout.  It's a
properly struts-based tag library, and fits fine with _Struts_, but I had
trouble getting it to do tabbed menus with Tiles.  Since that's not it's
major purpose, I just stopped doing that.
--
derek


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Re: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Derek Broughton]

On Friday 10 December 2004 14:03, Brantley Hobbs wrote:
>
> Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> (http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps I've been
> living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd never
> heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed for with
> MS's canned "web controls".
>
> Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does it
> compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
> projects like Velocity, etc.

No experience - I just ran across struts layout, too, and find it's working 
well for some of what I want to do.  I know nothing about JSF, and tried to 
get into Velocity and it seemed like just too much work.  I think that's 
really because I got some bad advice, early, but I gave up on it. 

The responses you've received so far strike me as odd - which makes me think 
none of the respondents have actually looked at Struts Layout.  It's a 
properly struts-based tag library, and fits fine with _Struts_, but I had 
trouble getting it to do tabbed menus with Tiles.  Since that's not it's 
major purpose, I just stopped doing that.
-- 
derek

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RE: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Jim Barrows]

> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vic
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:46 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Opinions on Struts Layout
> 
> 
> Brantley Hobbs wrote:
> 
> >Hi all!
> >
> >When our organization was making the decision between .NET 
> and J2EE, we
> >were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.  The
> >ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very 
> attractive, simply
> >because our developers were hired to develop; not generate 
> HTML (as I'm
> >sure most of you were).  
> >
> 
> It's a great 90% solution. The last mile kills you.
> 
> >What eventually did .NET in (at least for us)
> >was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility 
> afforded by J2EE
> >(i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the most
> >part).
> >  
> >
> :-)
> 
> >Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took the
> >J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been looking for
> >more streamlined ways of developing the view.
> >
> >  
> >
> I let people do prototypes in HTML tools, there are many. 
> Then I do ren 
> *.html *.jsp.
> 
> >Well, I ran across Struts Layout
> >(http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps 
> I've been
> >living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd never
> >heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we 
> longed for with
> >MS's canned "web controls".
> >
> >Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does it
> >compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
> >projects like Velocity, etc.
> >
> >One idea that I really like about struts layout is that it's tied
> >directly back to struts, so it seems that it might be a more elegant
> >solution than mixing technologies.
> >
> >Any input?
> >
> >  
> >
> There are many GUI and UI tools for Struts, Java, etc.. You can just 
> google,  http://www.scioworks.com <http://www.scioworks.com/> is one.
> For pro applications, you live in the last 10% and the last mile, so 
> some of us like to hand code. It's acctualy cheaper and 
> faster to do so.
> Why?
> 80% of cost of software is maitnance and upgrades. Once you hand code 
> it, it's very maintainable.  If somone says change that and 
> make it do 
> X, with handcoded JSP/html I have ninimal problems.
> (For JDNC I have tried JFormDesigner).
> It depends how you compute your cost of development.
> So I don't use generators, nor UI generators.

Then add in that most html generators suck at generating fast, w3c compliant 
code and you have a real mess on your hands.
Take any .net site developed with MS's so called tools... they in general are 
NOT w3c compliant, and monkeys on keyboards could generate better code.
Then modifying it all... yuck. Nope.. hand coding is much faster.


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Re: Opinions on Struts Layout

[Vic]

Brantley Hobbs wrote:
Hi all!
When our organization was making the decision between .NET and J2EE, we
were really struck by how powerful MS's idea of web forms were.  The
ability to drag/drop web controls onto a page is very attractive, simply
because our developers were hired to develop; not generate HTML (as I'm
sure most of you were).  

It's a great 90% solution. The last mile kills you.
What eventually did .NET in (at least for us)
was MS's abysmal security record, and the flexibility afforded by J2EE
(i.e., can be deployed on any platform that has a JVM for the most
part).
 

:-)
Struts was the first framework project we ran into after we took the
J2EE plunge.  We all really like Struts, but we have been looking for
more streamlined ways of developing the view.
 

I let people do prototypes in HTML tools, there are many. Then I do ren 
*.html *.jsp.

Well, I ran across Struts Layout
(http://struts.application-servers.com/index.html).  Perhaps I've been
living under a rock for a while, but it was something that I'd never
heard of before, and it seems to offer exactly what we longed for with
MS's canned "web controls".
Does anyone here have any familiarity with this project?  How does it
compare with JSF or even with some of the other presentation layer
projects like Velocity, etc.
One idea that I really like about struts layout is that it's tied
directly back to struts, so it seems that it might be a more elegant
solution than mixing technologies.
Any input?
 

There are many GUI and UI tools for Struts, Java, etc.. You can just 
google,  http://www.scioworks.com  is one.
For pro applications, you live in the last 10% and the last mile, so 
some of us like to hand code. It's acctualy cheaper and faster to do so.
Why?
80% of cost of software is maitnance and upgrades. Once you hand code 
it, it's very maintainable.  If somone says change that and make it do 
X, with handcoded JSP/html I have ninimal problems.
(For JDNC I have tried JFormDesigner).
It depends how you compute your cost of development.
So I don't use generators, nor UI generators.

.V

Thanks,
Brantley Hobbs
 


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