Re: [users@httpd] Configuration question

[@lbutlr]

On 27 Jan 2020, at 19:27, Richard  wrote:
> If you're trying to serve your content via http, which appears to be
> your goal, then to serve it out on different ports - without using
> the apache virtual host configuration - you'd need to have multiple
> instances of apache running. That's possible, but very ugly. 

Is this a change in recent versions? I recall using apache in the past to 
server pages on port 80 and 8080 and 8081 all from the same conf file.

I mean, I am reasonably sure it was apache, though it was quite a long time ago 
(1.3 days, probably)


-- 
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is
possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that
something is impossible, he is probably wrong.



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Re: [users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[Richard]

> Date: Monday, January 27, 2020 16:51:44 -0600
> From: o1bigtenor 
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 4:17 PM Richard wrote:
>> 
>> > Date: Monday, January 27, 2020 09:42:51 -0600
>> > From: o1bigtenor 
>> > 
>> > So I don't really need to use 'virtual hosts'. What I am actually
>> > needing to do is to use different ports to the same 'stack'
>> > rather than creating different 'stacks'.
>> > 
>> > By this I mean that I don't need to use different server
>> > configurations for each application rather than I need to 'just'
>> > assign different ports to the different applications and this
>> > should work.
>> 
>> I think you may be confusing "virtual machines" and "(apache)
>> virtual hosts". A virtual machine (VM) is indeed a whole "stack"
>> (as you are referring to things). A[n apache] virtual host
>> environment is simply configuring an instance of apache to serve
>> content (more or less) as if it's on different VMs. This will
>> allow you to use different document roots for each content set as
>> well as serve out on different ports and/or hostnames from a
>> single machine.
>> 
>> In general I try to avoid serving content on non-standard
>> http/https ports as it tends to be confusing to users. Using
>> different hostnames and/or IPnumbers is cleaner and causes fewer
>> headaches.
>> 
> It may have not been clear but I was asking as to whether I should
> be using virtual hosts or something else (maybe different port
> numbers).
> 
> Different hostnames - - - - how do I have that on one physical
> machine?
> 
> Are you recommending using subdomains? (I think that's what its
> called!?!)
> 

If you're trying to serve your content via http, which appears to be
your goal, then to serve it out on different ports - without using
the apache virtual host configuration - you'd need to have multiple
instances of apache running. That's possible, but very ugly. 

You may want to read the apache virtual host documentation:

  

Any number of hostnames (unique or sub-domains) can resolve to the
same ipnumber, the responding software simply needs to know how to
handle things, assuming that different responses are necessary. Look
at the "name-based virtual host" information in the vhosts
documentation. [A machine can also have multiple ipnumbers assigned
to it.]



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Re: [users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[o1bigtenor]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 4:17 PM Richard
 wrote:
>
>
>
> > Date: Monday, January 27, 2020 09:42:51 -0600
> > From: o1bigtenor 
> >
> > So I don't really need to use 'virtual hosts'. What I am actually
> > needing to do is to use different ports to the same 'stack' rather
> > than creating different 'stacks'.
> >
> > By this I mean that I don't need to use different server
> > configurations for each application rather than I need to 'just'
> > assign different ports to the different applications and this
> > should work.
>
> I think you may be confusing "virtual machines" and "(apache) virtual
> hosts". A virtual machine (VM) is indeed a whole "stack" (as you are
> referring to things). A[n apache] virtual host environment is simply
> configuring an instance of apache to serve content (more or less) as
> if it's on different VMs. This will allow you to use different
> document roots for each content set as well as serve out on different
> ports and/or hostnames from a single machine.
>
> In general I try to avoid serving content on non-standard http/https
> ports as it tends to be confusing to users. Using different hostnames
> and/or IPnumbers is cleaner and causes fewer headaches.
>
It may have not been clear but I was asking as to whether I should be
using virtual hosts or something else (maybe different port numbers).

Different hostnames - - - - how do I have that on one physical machine?

Are you recommending using subdomains? (I think that's what its called!?!)

TIA

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Re: [users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[Richard]

> Date: Monday, January 27, 2020 09:42:51 -0600
> From: o1bigtenor 
>
> So I don't really need to use 'virtual hosts'. What I am actually
> needing to do is to use different ports to the same 'stack' rather
> than creating different 'stacks'.
>
> By this I mean that I don't need to use different server
> configurations for each application rather than I need to 'just'
> assign different ports to the different applications and this
> should work.

I think you may be confusing "virtual machines" and "(apache) virtual
hosts". A virtual machine (VM) is indeed a whole "stack" (as you are
referring to things). A[n apache] virtual host environment is simply
configuring an instance of apache to serve content (more or less) as
if it's on different VMs. This will allow you to use different
document roots for each content set as well as serve out on different
ports and/or hostnames from a single machine.

In general I try to avoid serving content on non-standard http/https
ports as it tends to be confusing to users. Using different hostnames
and/or IPnumbers is cleaner and causes fewer headaches.



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Re: [users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[o1bigtenor]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:33 AM Eric Covener  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:30 AM o1bigtenor  wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for responding!!!
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:23 AM Eric Covener  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Perhaps I'm not understanding either the concept of virtual hosting or 
> > > > how
> > > > to run multiple programs on one host very well. If so - - - if someone 
> > > > would
> > > > please advise?
> > >
> > > It is possible that two "applications" insist on a fixed or even
> > > separate DocumenRoot, but it's just as likely that each one would be
> > > just as happy to have their files found by an Alias or AliasMatch.
> >
> > I do not understand what you mean by this - - - - could you perhaps
> > point me to where I might see how this is set up or used (or or or)
> > so that I might understand what you mean. (I think I understand the words
> > but I don't understand how to 'do it'.
>
> The DocumentRoot can be viewed as just the default place URLs are
> mapped to the filesystem. There's only 1 per virtual host.
> To use different virtual hosts, you need separate IP addresses,
> hostnames, or ports.
>
> If you want URL-path X to lead to filesystem path Y on disk, you can
> use the Alias or AliasMatch directive to customize it without using
> additional IP addresses/hostnames/ports to differentiate.
>
> But of course this doesn't help if you have two application that
> expect to live on /

OK - - - I think I understand this (my following question(s) may prove
otherwise!).
Both applications are not expecting to live on / but to me the installation
instructions for each are incompatible.

So - - - - step by step to make sure I'm not fubaring things too many more
times (I'm at 5 times installing the lamp stack trying to get things working).
Of course if I knew what I was doing that wouldn't likely be necessary but
one trades time for experience (at least in my case). As my other question,
email subject: question re: where to place, shades into this one so I'm
going to combine the somewhat different requests into one - - this one
(hopefully allowed and should be traceable).

So I don't really need to use 'virtual hosts'. What I am actually needing to do
is to use different ports to the same 'stack' rather than creating
different 'stacks'.
By this I mean that I don't need to use different server configurations for
each application rather than I need to 'just' assign different ports to the
different applications and this should work.

Where my problem lies is in the request that application a expects to be
called from:  DocumentRoot /var/www/applicationa/web  and the second wants
to be called from:  DocumentRoot /var/www/example.com  .

I don't understand how to setup both in the way asked for by the script I'm
following for each as I don't understand how to modify, what to modify or even
where to modify something to allow both applications to co-exist.

Have tried reading the documentation and it can usually follow what is being
said by the examples only show exactly what is being referred to without ever
showing any context. So I don't understand where that specific whatever
belongs and how it relates to the whole. Understand that you are likely not
responsible for the docs but even though they are clear and concise without
an example which places the specific into its larger setting - - -
-well I don't know
what to do with the specific and then I mus needs ask here. Perhaps an
example configuration could be referred to in the docs so that one could see
these details.

Thanking you for your assistance muchly!!

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Re: [users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[Eric Covener]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:30 AM o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> Thank you for responding!!!
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:23 AM Eric Covener  wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps I'm not understanding either the concept of virtual hosting or how
> > > to run multiple programs on one host very well. If so - - - if someone 
> > > would
> > > please advise?
> >
> > It is possible that two "applications" insist on a fixed or even
> > separate DocumenRoot, but it's just as likely that each one would be
> > just as happy to have their files found by an Alias or AliasMatch.
>
> I do not understand what you mean by this - - - - could you perhaps
> point me to where I might see how this is set up or used (or or or)
> so that I might understand what you mean. (I think I understand the words
> but I don't understand how to 'do it'.

The DocumentRoot can be viewed as just the default place URLs are
mapped to the filesystem. There's only 1 per virtual host.
To use different virtual hosts, you need separate IP addresses,
hostnames, or ports.

If you want URL-path X to lead to filesystem path Y on disk, you can
use the Alias or AliasMatch directive to customize it without using
additional IP addresses/hostnames/ports to differentiate.

But of course this doesn't help if you have two application that
expect to live on /

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Re: [users@httpd] question re: where to place

[Eric Covener]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:23 AM o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> Wanting to host for internal use only a number of programs and found
> the concept of using the module mod_authz_host and the Require
> directives.
>
> What is not clear is where I would place the declaration, require xxx.
>
> Does the declaration get placed within
> sites-available/example.com.conf  or is there a better place to put
> it?

That's a reasonable place on a debian-based server, where virtual
hosts you add won't be touched by the package manager.

Packaging issues aside, all of the config files you find on a system
like this are just serialized into one file anyway with the Include
directive.
The real consideration is the context you put a directive into because
of the scope you want it to apply:
https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/sections.html



-- 
Eric Covener
cove...@gmail.com

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Re: [users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[o1bigtenor]

Thank you for responding!!!

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:23 AM Eric Covener  wrote:
>
> > Perhaps I'm not understanding either the concept of virtual hosting or how
> > to run multiple programs on one host very well. If so - - - if someone would
> > please advise?
>
> It is possible that two "applications" insist on a fixed or even
> separate DocumenRoot, but it's just as likely that each one would be
> just as happy to have their files found by an Alias or AliasMatch.

I do not understand what you mean by this - - - - could you perhaps
point me to where I might see how this is set up or used (or or or)
so that I might understand what you mean. (I think I understand the words
but I don't understand how to 'do it'.
>
> The bigger the SW, the harder it might be to get it to respond
> correctly if you try to shoe-horn it into running out of some
> alternate URL path / context root.
>
As I found - - - and what caused the ask.

Thanks for the suggestion!!

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[users@httpd] question re: where to place

[o1bigtenor]

Greetings

Wanting to host for internal use only a number of programs and found
the concept of using the module mod_authz_host and the Require
directives.

What is not clear is where I would place the declaration, require xxx.

Does the declaration get placed within
sites-available/example.com.conf  or is there a better place to put
it?

Regards

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Re: [users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[Eric Covener]

> Perhaps I'm not understanding either the concept of virtual hosting or how
> to run multiple programs on one host very well. If so - - - if someone would
> please advise?

It is possible that two "applications" insist on a fixed or even
separate DocumenRoot, but it's just as likely that each one would be
just as happy to have their files found by an Alias or AliasMatch.

The bigger the SW, the harder it might be to get it to respond
correctly if you try to shoe-horn it into running out of some
alternate URL path / context root.

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[users@httpd] Re: Configuration question

[o1bigtenor]

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:58 PM o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> Am a noob at server setup installation and configuration.
>
> Running on a Debian 10 Buster box set up as a LAMP stack using versions
> 1. Debian 10 (Buster)
> 2. Apache 2.4.38
> 3. Mariadb 10.3
> 4. PHP 7.3.11
>
> Being a noob I've been using documents to guide me in the setup and
> the configuration of my stack. History has shown me that I'm quite
> good at finding some kind of weird way of really confusing things so
> all this work is being done on a test system - - - meaning that if
> things get bad enough I would just blow the whole system and
> everything away and start over but even struggling through all the
> 'joys' of figuring out the arcanities of how and what - - - - well
> that's part of the learning process.
>
> So my first server software install I did to 'localhost' (this is
> after all experimental but with the possibility of use after
> successful installation/configuration/etc). All software to be served
> is for in-house use only. This is not meant to be a server for use
> from the outside world This first software wants to be accessed from
> the browser as localhost/. This means that
> /etc/apache2/sites-available/000-default.conf   reads (one line
> anyway):  DocumentRoot /var/www/html. The problem is that the second
> program wants   DocumentRoot /var/www/html commented out and
> DocumentRoot /var/www/y/web put in its place.
>
> I would assume that would mean that apache would no longer be serving
> program  the way it wants to be.
>
> Is there a way of resolving  this impass?
> I'm not at all skilled enough to plan out something that would work.
> Maybe I need to change the settings for both programs.
>
> Suggestions, please?
>
With a couple more hours of looking I found a possible answer - - - sorry
wasn't in any docs but rather in the methods suggested by others for install.
What I found was the concept of virtual hosts.
I am not sure if this is a great way to do things but that will be
what I'm going
to try. I would rather handle every specific program as being hosted on the
same instance but perhaps treating each program (that needs a server for its
implementation) as an independent host works better. Logically it is a shift
for me but I can see how it could assist in security, maybe.
Perhaps I'm not understanding either the concept of virtual hosting or how
to run multiple programs on one host very well. If so - - - if someone would
please advise?

TIA

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