Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Thank you I'll try this week with InnoSetup.
> I'd be very interested to hear more about the underlying architecture
> in use - I write / maintain a variety of audio and media Java
> libraries as well.I will open source all the infrastructure code. Note that
> it is a 100% Midi based application.
Le mardi 17 septembre 2019 à 17:53:54 UTC+2, Neil C Smith
a écrit :
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 22:06, Jerome Lelasseux
wrote:
> 1/ bundle a JRE and it must be OpenJDK
> or
> 2/ have the installer check if a JRE is there, and if not, ask user to
> install a JRE on its own (then he can choose Oracle or whatever). I assume
> that after JRE installation my Netbeans app will automatically find this JRE ?
Definitely go with 1!
> InnoSetup is probably be a good idea: I guess it's more powerful and flexible
> than Netbeans installers, but I'm concerned by the time needed to learn yet
> another topic... Does InnoSetup simplifies the "installer signing" ?
If it's any use, my InnoSetup file is here -
https://github.com/praxis-live/praxis-live/blob/master/resources/pl-installer.iss.template
It's fairly simple, really, and could do more, but does the job. I
only recently stopped running this manually and templated it for use
with Ant - only replaces ${app.version}
Should be easy enough to adapt and experiment with. It's more
flexible more easily than the NetBeans installer, and handles things
like in-place upgrades and shortcut icons much more simply. But the
primary benefit is not having to rely on the embedded JRE to run. In
fact, I did start looking at the possibility of a NetBeans IDE
installer with it that could offer to download the JDK as part of the
installation process.
> As some of you seem curious, here is a video I just finished today. It's a
> private link for preview only, because web site is not online yet, etc.
> https://youtu.be/v80Wm6joYxs
Looks great! My own first degree (some time ago) was in music, and I
can think of at least one other person around here who should
appreciate a jazz application on NetBeans platform! :-)
Reminds me a little of Frinika, which at one point had a fork on to
NetBeans RCP. And there's also Blue of course.
I'd be very interested to hear more about the underlying architecture
in use - I write / maintain a variety of audio and media Java
libraries as well.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 22:06, Jerome Lelasseux
wrote:
> 1/ bundle a JRE and it must be OpenJDK
> or
> 2/ have the installer check if a JRE is there, and if not, ask user to
> install a JRE on its own (then he can choose Oracle or whatever). I assume
> that after JRE installation my Netbeans app will automatically find this JRE ?
Definitely go with 1!
> InnoSetup is probably be a good idea: I guess it's more powerful and flexible
> than Netbeans installers, but I'm concerned by the time needed to learn yet
> another topic... Does InnoSetup simplifies the "installer signing" ?
If it's any use, my InnoSetup file is here -
https://github.com/praxis-live/praxis-live/blob/master/resources/pl-installer.iss.template
It's fairly simple, really, and could do more, but does the job. I
only recently stopped running this manually and templated it for use
with Ant - only replaces ${app.version}
Should be easy enough to adapt and experiment with. It's more
flexible more easily than the NetBeans installer, and handles things
like in-place upgrades and shortcut icons much more simply. But the
primary benefit is not having to rely on the embedded JRE to run. In
fact, I did start looking at the possibility of a NetBeans IDE
installer with it that could offer to download the JDK as part of the
installation process.
> As some of you seem curious, here is a video I just finished today. It's a
> private link for preview only, because web site is not online yet, etc.
> https://youtu.be/v80Wm6joYxs
Looks great! My own first degree (some time ago) was in music, and I
can think of at least one other person around here who should
appreciate a jazz application on NetBeans platform! :-)
Reminds me a little of Frinika, which at one point had a fork on to
NetBeans RCP. And there's also Blue of course.
I'd be very interested to hear more about the underlying architecture
in use - I write / maintain a variety of audio and media Java
libraries as well.
Best wishes,
Neil
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Am 17.09.19 um 12:24 schrieb Emilian Bold: Java is no longer expected to be available but has to come bundled with the native installer. In this case wouldn't there be a need for a netbeans GUI based option to bundle a JDK/JRE for each OS installer by default without manual modifying the build.xml and so on. Andreas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
The FSF explanation is clear as mud... Policing where your users are from and what the up to date embargo list is is extra work so why not pick an OpenJDK distro that does not make you do that? --emi mar., 17 sept. 2019, 13:19 Neil C Smith a scris: > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 06:23, Emilian Bold wrote: > > > > Note that Azul Zulu has some specific terms of use which are not good if > you allow random people to download it: > > > > > You also represent and warrant that you do not intend to distribute > the software in a manner that is not compliant with relevant export > control laws or regulations administered by the U.S. Commerce Department, > OFAC, or any other government agency. > > > > If you sell the app and KYC it might be manageable. > > > > Possibly an interesting read in this context - > https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#ExportWarranties > > Still, if it bothers you, or for lots of other reasons, there's always > AdoptOpenJDK. > > (semi-OT - I'm currently enjoying running NetBeans with AdoptOpenJDK's > OpenJ9 and have been for the last few months) > > Best wishes, > > Neil >
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 06:23, Emilian Bold wrote: > > Note that Azul Zulu has some specific terms of use which are not good if you > allow random people to download it: > > > You also represent and warrant that you do not intend to distribute the > > software in a manner that is not compliant with relevant export control > > laws or regulations administered by the U.S. Commerce Department, OFAC, or > > any other government agency. > > If you sell the app and KYC it might be manageable. > Possibly an interesting read in this context - https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#ExportWarranties Still, if it bothers you, or for lots of other reasons, there's always AdoptOpenJDK. (semi-OT - I'm currently enjoying running NetBeans with AdoptOpenJDK's OpenJ9 and have been for the last few months) Best wishes, Neil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re : Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
I agree... I think it was working like you said when I started my project many (many) years ago, but since then context has changed a lot, Windows does not embed anymore java by default, etc Envoyé depuis Yahoo Mail pour iPhone Le mardi, septembre 17, 2019, 12:05 PM, Judi Rastall a écrit : I have been following this thread with interest as I am building a project for distribution into the hobby market. I am a hobbyist and I am having to learn Java along the way but that's another story. I thought the whole point of Java is that it is cross-platform and that each user would install the JRE appropriate to their platform's OS. Attempting to bundle a JRE with the distribution has to be platform specific which defeats the object? I was under the impression that, if you tried to launch the jar file and it could not find a JRE, it would prompt to download. Judi R - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
I have been following this thread with interest as I am building a project for distribution into the hobby market. I am a hobbyist and I am having to learn Java along the way but that's another story. I thought the whole point of Java is that it is cross-platform and that each user would install the JRE appropriate to their platform's OS. Attempting to bundle a JRE with the distribution has to be platform specific which defeats the object? I was under the impression that, if you tried to launch the jar file and it could not find a JRE, it would prompt to download. Judi R - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Note that Azul Zulu has some specific terms of use which are not good if you allow random people to download it: > You also represent and warrant that you do not intend to distribute the software in a manner that is not compliant with relevant export control laws or regulations administered by the U.S. Commerce Department, OFAC, or any other government agency. If you sell the app and KYC it might be manageable. --emi On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 11:11 PM Eirik Bakke wrote: > I agree with these recommendations: > > 1) Definitively bundle your own JRE. You can't assume people have Java > installed anymore, and it's very nice to be able to test your app on > exactly the Java version you know your users will be running on. > > 2) For legal reasons, definitively do not use the Oracle one--use one of > the OpenJDK ones. I use https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community . > For all practical purposes, it's the exact same piece of software as the > Oracle one--just with a different license agreement. > > > > -- Eirik > > > > *From:* Emilio G.C. > *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2019 6:20 PM > *To:* Jerome Lelasseux > *Cc:* users@netbeans.apache.org > *Subject:* Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general > public > > > > Some extra info from Wikipedia, in case you want to consider other JDK > bundling options: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK#OpenJDK_builds > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK#OpenJDK_builds> > > OpenJDK - Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK#OpenJDK_builds> > > OpenJDK (Open Java Development Kit) is a free and open-source > implementation of the Java Platform, Standard Edition (Java SE). It is the > result of an effort Sun Microsystems began in 2006. The implementation is > licensed under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) version 2 with a > linking exception.Were it not for the GPL linking exception, components > that linked to the Java class library ... > > en.wikipedia.org > > > > > > > -- > > *From:* Jerome Lelasseux > *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2019 16:06 > *To:* Jerome Lelasseux ; Emilio G. C. < > rarei...@outlook.com> > *Cc:* users@netbeans.apache.org > *Subject:* Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general > public > > > > Thanks all for your feedback. > > > > I checked the new Oracle license : I understood that I can use JRE on my > own computer, but I can NOT bundle it and redistribute it. > > > > So I have the following choices: > > > > 1/ bundle a JRE and it must be OpenJDK > > or > > 2/ have the installer check if a JRE is there, and if not, ask user to > install a JRE on its own (then he can choose Oracle or whatever). I assume > that after JRE installation my Netbeans app will automatically find this > JRE ? > > > > > > InnoSetup is probably be a good idea: I guess it's more powerful and > flexible than Netbeans installers, but I'm concerned by the time needed to > learn yet another topic... Does InnoSetup simplifies the "installer > signing" ? > > > > As some of you seem curious, here is a video I just finished today. It's a > private link for preview only, because web site is not online yet, etc. > > https://youtu.be/v80Wm6joYxs > > > > > > > > > > > > Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 21:59:03 UTC+2, Emilio G. C. < > rarei...@outlook.com> a écrit : > > > > > > Something else to note, if you bundle the JRE, make sure Oracle's new > licensing fits your case. I must admit I don't quite understand it fully, > but in the case of the newest Java 8 releases, it might be something to > consider. > > > > > > Emilio > > > -- > > *From:* Jerome Lelasseux > *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2019 14:36 > *To:* Emilian Bold > *Cc:* NetBeans Mailing > *Subject:* Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general > public > > > > I see. I thought most Windows users had a JRE installed... > > > > Bundling a JRE adds 40MB to my 18MB package, it's a pity... Is there a way > to do it simply directly from Netbeans ? I'll need 2 different packages for > 32/64bits ? Same for the signing process, no idea from where to start, I'll > Google it but if you have some good pointer this will help ! > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 18:11:27 UTC+2, Emilian Bold < > emilian.b...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > > > > Especially for non technical users you can assume they will have no
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Thanks all for your feedback. I checked the new Oracle license : I understood that I can use JRE on my own computer, but I can NOT bundle it and redistribute it. So I have the following choices: 1/ bundle a JRE and it must be OpenJDKor 2/ have the installer check if a JRE is there, and if not, ask user to install a JRE on its own (then he can choose Oracle or whatever). I assume that after JRE installation my Netbeans app will automatically find this JRE ? InnoSetup is probably be a good idea: I guess it's more powerful and flexible than Netbeans installers, but I'm concerned by the time needed to learn yet another topic... Does InnoSetup simplifies the "installer signing" ? As some of you seem curious, here is a video I just finished today. It's a private link for preview only, because web site is not online yet, etc. https://youtu.be/v80Wm6joYxs Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 21:59:03 UTC+2, Emilio G. C. a écrit : Something else to note, if you bundle the JRE, make sure Oracle's new licensing fits your case. I must admit I don't quite understand it fully, but in the case of the newest Java 8 releases, it might be something to consider. Emilio From: Jerome Lelasseux Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 14:36 To: Emilian Bold Cc: NetBeans Mailing Subject: Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public I see. I thought most Windows users had a JRE installed... Bundling a JRE adds 40MB to my 18MB package, it's a pity... Is there a way to do it simply directly from Netbeans ? I'll need 2 different packages for 32/64bits ? Same for the signing process, no idea from where to start, I'll Google it but if you have some good pointer this will help ! Thank you. Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 18:11:27 UTC+2, Emilian Bold a écrit : Especially for non technical users you can assume they will have no Java so you must include a JRE. I recommend AdoptOpenJDK 11. Signed installers would be nice if you don't want Windows to scare away your users. --emi dum., 15 sept. 2019, 18:22 Jerome Lelasseux a scris: Hello, I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted at individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is based on NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint distribution, though I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the beginning I won't release a Mac version. In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested to get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible installation/configuration problems on user machines. For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle JRE7 already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package ? etc. ThanksJerome
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Something else to note, if you bundle the JRE, make sure Oracle's new licensing fits your case. I must admit I don't quite understand it fully, but in the case of the newest Java 8 releases, it might be something to consider. Emilio From: Jerome Lelasseux Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 14:36 To: Emilian Bold Cc: NetBeans Mailing Subject: Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public I see. I thought most Windows users had a JRE installed... Bundling a JRE adds 40MB to my 18MB package, it's a pity... Is there a way to do it simply directly from Netbeans ? I'll need 2 different packages for 32/64bits ? Same for the signing process, no idea from where to start, I'll Google it but if you have some good pointer this will help ! Thank you. Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 18:11:27 UTC+2, Emilian Bold a écrit : Especially for non technical users you can assume they will have no Java so you must include a JRE. I recommend AdoptOpenJDK 11. Signed installers would be nice if you don't want Windows to scare away your users. --emi dum., 15 sept. 2019, 18:22 Jerome Lelasseux a scris: Hello, I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted at individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is based on NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint distribution, though I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the beginning I won't release a Mac version. In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested to get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible installation/configuration problems on user machines. For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle JRE7 already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package ? etc. Thanks Jerome
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 20:36 Jerome Lelasseux, wrote: > I see. I thought most Windows users had a JRE installed... > I wouldn't rely on that going forward ... > > Bundling a JRE adds 40MB to my 18MB package, it's a pity... Is there a way > to do it simply directly from Netbeans ? > Are you using Ant or Maven? PraxisLIVE has an Ant target to build an installer with InnoSetup and a bundled JDK. Personally I'd l recommend that approach over NetBeans installer if bundling. Eg. https://github.com/praxis-live/praxis-live/blob/master/build.xml#L70 Interested in seeing your application! Best wishes, Neil
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Well, you could have installation instructions initially explaining how and where to get the JRE from and where to reference it in the conf file of the app for your initial release. Gj On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 12:36, Jerome Lelasseux wrote: > I see. I thought most Windows users had a JRE installed... > > Bundling a JRE adds 40MB to my 18MB package, it's a pity... Is there a way > to do it simply directly from Netbeans ? I'll need 2 different packages for > 32/64bits ? Same for the signing process, no idea from where to start, I'll > Google it but if you have some good pointer this will help ! > > Thank you. > > > Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 18:11:27 UTC+2, Emilian Bold < > emilian.b...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > Especially for non technical users you can assume they will have no Java > so you must include a JRE. I recommend AdoptOpenJDK 11. > > Signed installers would be nice if you don't want Windows to scare away > your users. > > --emi > > dum., 15 sept. 2019, 18:22 Jerome Lelasseux > a scris: > > Hello, > > I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted > at individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is > based on NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint > distribution, though I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the > beginning I won't release a Mac version. > > In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested > to get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible > installation/configuration problems on user machines. > > For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle > JRE7 already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package > ? etc. > > Thanks > Jerome > > > > > >
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
I see. I thought most Windows users had a JRE installed... Bundling a JRE adds 40MB to my 18MB package, it's a pity... Is there a way to do it simply directly from Netbeans ? I'll need 2 different packages for 32/64bits ? Same for the signing process, no idea from where to start, I'll Google it but if you have some good pointer this will help ! Thank you. Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 18:11:27 UTC+2, Emilian Bold a écrit : Especially for non technical users you can assume they will have no Java so you must include a JRE. I recommend AdoptOpenJDK 11. Signed installers would be nice if you don't want Windows to scare away your users. --emi dum., 15 sept. 2019, 18:22 Jerome Lelasseux a scris: Hello, I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted at individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is based on NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint distribution, though I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the beginning I won't release a Mac version. In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested to get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible installation/configuration problems on user machines. For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle JRE7 already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package ? etc. ThanksJerome
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Congrats with this app, eager to see at least screenshots. Indeed, bundling a JRE would make sense. Gj On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 12:27, Jerome Lelasseux wrote: > I mentionned Java7 as a minimum version, actually the application works > fine with JDK12 too. > > > Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 17:41:33 UTC+2, Thomas Wolf < > tjw...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > I can’t speak for general users, but in enterprises you can’t assume Java > - much less an ancient one like 7. I don’t even think that’s available > for download anymore, is it? If that’s all you’ve tested with, i think > you’d have to include it with your installation. > > Just my opinion, of course. > tom > > On Sep 15, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Jerome Lelasseux > wrote: > > > Hello, > > I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted > at individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is > based on NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint > distribution, though I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the > beginning I won't release a Mac version. > > In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested > to get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible > installation/configuration problems on user machines. > > For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle > JRE7 already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package > ? etc. > > Thanks > Jerome > > > > > >
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
I mentionned Java7 as a minimum version, actually the application works fine with JDK12 too. Le dimanche 15 septembre 2019 à 17:41:33 UTC+2, Thomas Wolf a écrit : I can’t speak for general users, but in enterprises you can’t assume Java - much less an ancient one like 7. I don’t even think that’s available for download anymore, is it? If that’s all you’ve tested with, i think you’d have to include it with your installation. Just my opinion, of course.tom On Sep 15, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Jerome Lelasseux wrote: Hello, I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted at individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is based on NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint distribution, though I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the beginning I won't release a Mac version. In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested to get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible installation/configuration problems on user machines. For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle JRE7 already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package ? etc. ThanksJerome
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
Especially for non technical users you can assume they will have no Java so you must include a JRE. I recommend AdoptOpenJDK 11. Signed installers would be nice if you don't want Windows to scare away your users. --emi dum., 15 sept. 2019, 18:22 Jerome Lelasseux a scris: > Hello, > > I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted > at individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is > based on NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint > distribution, though I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the > beginning I won't release a Mac version. > > In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested > to get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible > installation/configuration problems on user machines. > > For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle > JRE7 already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package > ? etc. > > Thanks > Jerome > > > > > >
Re: Releasing a Netbeans platform application to the general public
I can’t speak for general users, but in enterprises you can’t assume Java - much less an ancient one like 7. I don’t even think that’s available for download anymore, is it? If that’s all you’ve tested with, i think you’d have to include it with your installation. Just my opinion, of course. tom > On Sep 15, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Jerome Lelasseux > wrote: > > > Hello, > > I develop in my spare time a Netbeans platform music application targeted at > individual musicians (professional or amateur). The application is based on > NB11/Java7. I test it on Win10(x64) and on a Linux Mint distribution, though > I expect most of the users will be on Windows. At the beginning I won't > release a Mac version. > > In a few weeks I will put it online for the first time, and I'm interested to > get recommendations from experienced people regarding possible > installation/configuration problems on user machines. > > For example is it realistic to assume that most users will have Oracle JRE7 > already installed ? Is it better to embed a JRE in my download package ? etc. > > Thanks > Jerome > > > > >
