Re: email on vintage computers (was: IIsi questions)

[Jason R]

yes, i too used to use AOL on a classic mac, an SE... use to actually 
do research for my high school reports on it
On May 10, 2004, at 00:27, Timothy Virkkala wrote:

Norbert van Bemmel, you wrote:

I vaguely remember that I emailed with my Classic 4/40 in 1995.  
Remarkable
indeed, but even more astonishing for me was emailing on some 
delapidated Unix
terminal in Budapest in that same year.
I joined AOL (yes, AOL) about the same time, and used it on a Mac Plus!

I quickly switched to an LC 5xx machine, and then to a 6100. It was
possible.
I hope to use one of my compact Macs hanging around the office for at 
least
one email account. Soon. Just for fun.

t

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---
Jason R...
On A Macintosh:-)
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Re: email on vintage computers (was: IIsi questions)

[Timothy Virkkala]

Norbert van Bemmel, you wrote:

> I vaguely remember that I emailed with my Classic 4/40 in 1995.  Remarkable
> indeed, but even more astonishing for me was emailing on some delapidated Unix
> terminal in Budapest in that same year.

I joined AOL (yes, AOL) about the same time, and used it on a Mac Plus!

I quickly switched to an LC 5xx machine, and then to a 6100. It was
possible.

I hope to use one of my compact Macs hanging around the office for at least
one email account. Soon. Just for fun.

t


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Re: IIfx Memory, Was: Re: IIsi questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Jeff Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> There may be dual ported asynchronous graphics chips
> around that 
> could be adapted, but any parts of that type are
> most likely not being manufactured any more.

Large numbers of PC videocards made after the
original CGA ones had dual ported RAM.

CGA used ordinary DRAM and had no buffers. To avoid
"snow" on the screen the default state was to wait
one cycle between all reads and writes. Fortunately
this was left "open" so that software could set the
card to not wait at all in text modes. Spurious
underscore characters would randomly "blip" onscreen
here and there, but only when large amounts of text
was changing on the screen, like when fast scrolling.
Never bothered me! :) IBM built a small buffer into
the EGA design to eliminate the problem.

=
It's total Fandemonium!
http://www.fandemonium.org




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Re: IIfx Memory, Was: Re: IIsi questions

[Darren]

Terry Mathews wrote:
Jeff Walther wrote:

The S in SGRAM stands for Synchronous, which means that SGRAM is 
triggered off of a clock signal.  Memory in older machines, which 
means everything before the Beige G3, is asynchronous which means that 
the data comes out or goes in based on some relationship to the 
address and various Enable signals with no clock.

In other words, one can't use Synchronous RAM chips in the IIfx 
without going through the kinds of gyrations that would amount to 
building a new motherboard for the IIfx.

There may be dual ported asynchronous graphics chips around that could 
be adapted, but any parts of that type are most likely not being 
manufactured any more.

Jeff Walther

I realize that, but the IIfx has a CPU clock speed of 40 MHz. Modern, 
commercially available SGRAM can run at speeds in excess of 260 MHz. 
Tying the clock pin to the CPU clock should take care of everything 
nicely. The SGRAM will be available every time the CPU can "think".

Terry
The clock signal is the last in the mac list of priorities, one of the 
hurdles when running linux particularly with some models. I've a 
feeling you are up against it as far as your project goes. I wish you 
the best of luck but think your fx will be waiting for ram while the 
ram is waiting for something to do.

At 80ns there is room for improvement with faster memory if that exists.

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Re: IIfx Memory, Was: Re: IIsi questions

[Terry Mathews]

Jeff Walther wrote:

The S in SGRAM stands for Synchronous, which means that SGRAM is 
triggered off of a clock signal.  Memory in older machines, which 
means everything before the Beige G3, is asynchronous which means that 
the data comes out or goes in based on some relationship to the 
address and various Enable signals with no clock.

In other words, one can't use Synchronous RAM chips in the IIfx 
without going through the kinds of gyrations that would amount to 
building a new motherboard for the IIfx.

There may be dual ported asynchronous graphics chips around that could 
be adapted, but any parts of that type are most likely not being 
manufactured any more.

Jeff Walther

I realize that, but the IIfx has a CPU clock speed of 40 MHz. Modern, 
commercially available SGRAM can run at speeds in excess of 260 MHz. 
Tying the clock pin to the CPU clock should take care of everything 
nicely. The SGRAM will be available every time the CPU can "think".

Terry

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IIfx Memory, Was: Re: IIsi questions

[Jeff Walther]

Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:57:03 -0400
From: Terry Mathews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Jeff Walther wrote:

 The other issue would be finding the dual ported RAM chips, but I bet
 that could be done with some looking around.


SGRAM is dual-ported.

Terry Mathews
The S in SGRAM stands for Synchronous, which means that SGRAM is 
triggered off of a clock signal.  Memory in older machines, which 
means everything before the Beige G3, is asynchronous which means 
that the data comes out or goes in based on some relationship to the 
address and various Enable signals with no clock.

In other words, one can't use Synchronous RAM chips in the IIfx 
without going through the kinds of gyrations that would amount to 
building a new motherboard for the IIfx.

There may be dual ported asynchronous graphics chips around that 
could be adapted, but any parts of that type are most likely not 
being manufactured any more.

Jeff Walther

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Re: IIsi questions

[Mark Benson]

On May 7, 2004, at 04:33 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:

I have a CD of a zillion old games for System 6. Big harddisk, jammed 
full,
a kid can manage a good time on one. Nice to give that lot away.
Yeh, I think he knows that - I think the 'lets blow up an LC' thing was 
a joke/stress relief :-)

My favorite hack is to put a Quad 605 motherboard in an LC II.
Not very adventurous tho is it :-P

I plan on buying an AmigaONE Lite (G3/800 based MicroATX form factor 
computer) and build it onto an LC case. It's an ideal size and has all 
you need for an Amiga, apart maybe from a CD bay.

There's a Japanese website somewhere out there showing LC's as 
backpacks.
Hehe, interesting idea - tho I think I'd find one a little heavy to 
carry around.

And, as I've photo-journalled on my site, they make dandy unobtrusive
second, external hard disks.
I have done similar with my Siamese LC hack. Works pretty well but 
sadly the PSU from an LC is too wimpy to run a decent size SCSI drive, 
even without the board attached.

http://www.sisp.net/~sulement/elegant.htm
With the right fans you could build 4-drive SCSI or USB2.0/FireWire 
RAID arrays in them with an External power supply. That'd be pretty 
kickin'.

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Re: IIsi questions

[J.S. Garrison]

on 5/6/04 11:48 PM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> The LC was a good Low Cost Mac in it's day, and they last an last as a
> lesson in computer robustness, but the LCII, IMHO, was a sad effort. I
> haven't found a single LCII that hasn't died of Caps of Death in the
> sound area yet, and I've been through 3 or 4 now. Still, the cases make
> great MiniITX project boxes and hackboxes I have one with a Powerbook
> 5300 board in it ATM, I'm just figuring out how to mount the drives and
> battery/power module. Fun
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/quadrajet/elsieexplodes.mpg
> 
> Those who think that LCs aren't much use might find this amusing, I
> know the guy and he has about 60 LC Macs he can't shift, so he takes
> out his frustration on them. Suppose it beats going out an doing it on
> real people!


I have a CD of a zillion old games for System 6. Big harddisk, jammed full,
a kid can manage a good time on one. Nice to give that lot away.

My favorite hack is to put a Quad 605 motherboard in an LC II.

There's a Japanese website somewhere out there showing LC's as backpacks.

And, as I've photo-journalled on my site, they make dandy unobtrusive
second, external hard disks.

http://www.sisp.net/~sulement/elegant.htm

Jeff G


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Re: IIsi questions

[J.S. Garrison]

on 5/6/04 11:48 PM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> The LC was a good Low Cost Mac in it's day, and they last an last as a
> lesson in computer robustness, but the LCII, IMHO, was a sad effort. I
> haven't found a single LCII that hasn't died of Caps of Death in the
> sound area yet, and I've been through 3 or 4 now. Still, the cases make
> great MiniITX project boxes and hackboxes I have one with a Powerbook
> 5300 board in it ATM, I'm just figuring out how to mount the drives and
> battery/power module. Fun
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/quadrajet/elsieexplodes.mpg
> 
> Those who think that LCs aren't much use might find this amusing, I
> know the guy and he has about 60 LC Macs he can't shift, so he takes
> out his frustration on them. Suppose it beats going out an doing it on
> real people!



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Re: IIsi questions

[Mark Benson]

On May 7, 2004, at 07:48 am, Mark Benson wrote:

...I know the guy and he has about 60 LC Macs he can't shift, so he 
takes out his frustration on them. Suppose it beats going out an doing 
it on real people!
In actual fact  he's trying to find somewhere to donate them to, he 
only blow one up every so often ;)

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Re: IIsi questions

[Mark Benson]

On May 6, 2004, at 04:02 pm, Clark Martin wrote:

For one thing I've only ever used 6.0.8 on a Plus, and for another I 
wasn't referring to what it shipped with, I was referring to how 
neatly System 6 and the Mac Plus work together. They just feel like 
one and the same running together, I dunno if earlier OSs fell like 
that...


You said it's
Wait for it...

like
emphasis on *like* and its modification of *it is* to result in 
'appears like' :o)

the two were made for each other
I didn't say they *were* made for each other did I? There ya go, that's 
where I think your not entirely on my wave Mr. Martin :o)

The Mac Plus had been around for sometime prior, about three years.
Never the less, the Plus was still a mainstream machine when System 6 
was about. Are you telling me now my iMac G4 wasn't made to run Panther 
because it was released 18 months (or was it 2 years?) before OS X 
10.3? I dunna think so sir. De fact is that if you have your senses in 
tact you don't just design your OS to be made for the computers it is 
released with, you design it to appeal to, and work well on a certain 
back-catalogue of machines so it attracts software upgrades as well as 
new unit purchases.

Still enough splitting hairs eh... :-D

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Re: IIsi questions

[Mark Benson]

On May 7, 2004, at 06:47 am, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

http://www.micromac.com/ had SIMM stackers for the
IIfx, but like all their stuff, hideously expensive.
One of their most laugh generating items was an add
on expansion case for the pizzabox LC series.
What was even more laugh-generating was I could have made it for about 
£100 :)

The
only one it would have even bugun to make sense for
(especially at the late date it was introduced) was
the LCIII/III+. It was sort of a similar idea to
what PC Enterprises and other companies made to
expand the PCjr, except MicroMac didn't get around
to theirs until well after the LC pizzaboxen were
out of production. I could just imagine someone
spending $800 on one for an original LC or LC II.
The phrase "polishing a turd" comes to mind. ;)
Not that an LC or LCII qualifies in the "turd"
category, they're just, well... not something to throw
$800 at!
The LC was a good Low Cost Mac in it's day, and they last an last as a 
lesson in computer robustness, but the LCII, IMHO, was a sad effort. I 
haven't found a single LCII that hasn't died of Caps of Death in the 
sound area yet, and I've been through 3 or 4 now. Still, the cases make 
great MiniITX project boxes and hackboxes I have one with a Powerbook 
5300 board in it ATM, I'm just figuring out how to mount the drives and 
battery/power module. Fun

http://homepage.mac.com/quadrajet/elsieexplodes.mpg

Those who think that LCs aren't much use might find this amusing, I 
know the guy and he has about 60 LC Macs he can't shift, so he takes 
out his frustration on them. Suppose it beats going out an doing it on 
real people!

--
Mark Benson
AIM - SilValleyPirate
MSN - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit FlatPackMacs online: 
Visit my Homepage: 
"Never send a human to do a machine's job."
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Re: IIsi questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Have to get around and make a 64pin to 30 pin
> adapter and try them.   
> I DO have IIfx btw!  What a wonder oddball Mac it
> is. :-)

http://www.micromac.com/ had SIMM stackers for the
IIfx, but like all their stuff, hideously expensive.

One of their most laugh generating items was an add
on expansion case for the pizzabox LC series. The
only one it would have even bugun to make sense for
(especially at the late date it was introduced) was
the LCIII/III+. It was sort of a similar idea to
what PC Enterprises and other companies made to
expand the PCjr, except MicroMac didn't get around
to theirs until well after the LC pizzaboxen were
out of production. I could just imagine someone
spending $800 on one for an original LC or LC II.
The phrase "polishing a turd" comes to mind. ;)

Not that an LC or LCII qualifies in the "turd"
category, they're just, well... not something to throw
$800 at!

=
It's total Fandemonium!
http://www.fandemonium.org




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Re: IIsi questions

[jpero]

> >Agreed, its amazing what you can do with 20mb, its a shame about the
> >ram in the fx, 1990-1992 was the option for 72 pin far off or did
> >apple have a corner of the 64-pin market? ;)
> >

I have probed that IIfx's  64pin simms, these chips on them  simply 
same as 30 pin simms because the 64 pin type has both odd and even 
contacts common.  IE: 1 to 2, 3 to 4.  so on, creates 32 pin in 
actual.  Also that also explains why 030 needs four 64pin simms to 
make one bank.

Have to get around and make a 64pin to 30 pin adapter and try them.   
I DO have IIfx btw!  What a wonder oddball Mac it is. :-)
 
> Jeff Walther

Cheers,

Wizard 

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Re: IIsi questions

[Clark Martin]

At 8:00 AM +0100 5/6/04, Mark Benson wrote:
On May 5, 2004, at 10:42 pm, Clark Martin wrote:
At 6:40 PM +0100 5/5/04, Mark Benson wrote:
I'll admit there is something mystically wonderful about a Plus 
with 4MB RAM running System 6. It's like the two were made for 
each other. I suppose they were in a way, but still, the same 
close connection between Mac and OS was lost from System 7 onwards 
IMHO. The only thing that even remotely approaches the 'two peas 
from the same pod' feeling is an iMac G4 running OS X, but it's 
still not quite the same...
Not even close, the Mac Plus originally shipped with OS 3.0 IIRC. 
OS 6 was much later.  The IIsi shipped with OS 6.0.7.
Did I say anything about what it shipped with in there? Huh?
For one thing I've only ever used 6.0.8 on a Plus, and for another I 
wasn't referring to what it shipped with, I was referring to how 
neatly System 6 and the Mac Plus work together. They just feel like 
one and the same running together, I dunno if earlier OSs fell like 
that...

You said it's like the two were made for each other and I was 
pointing out that they weren't.  The Mac Plus had been around for 
sometime prior, about three years.

IMHO 7.1 is better on Mac II machines as they mostly (apart from the 
original Mac II) have the power to run it, and also do better 
multitasking (which is kludged in System 6) and their ability to 
display higher resolution screens means 7.1 makes more sense. The 
only Compact Macs I'd run System 7 on are the SE/30 and the Colour 
Classics. The rest are not quite gutsy enough.

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Re: IIsi questions

[Mark Benson]

On May 5, 2004, at 10:42 pm, Clark Martin wrote:
At 6:40 PM +0100 5/5/04, Mark Benson wrote:
I'll admit there is something mystically wonderful about a Plus with 
4MB RAM running System 6. It's like the two were made for each other. 
I suppose they were in a way, but still, the same close connection 
between Mac and OS was lost from System 7 onwards IMHO. The only 
thing that even remotely approaches the 'two peas from the same pod' 
feeling is an iMac G4 running OS X, but it's still not quite the 
same...
Not even close, the Mac Plus originally shipped with OS 3.0 IIRC.  OS 
6 was much later.  The IIsi shipped with OS 6.0.7.
Did I say anything about what it shipped with in there? Huh?
For one thing I've only ever used 6.0.8 on a Plus, and for another I 
wasn't referring to what it shipped with, I was referring to how neatly 
System 6 and the Mac Plus work together. They just feel like one and 
the same running together, I dunno if earlier OSs fell like that...

IMHO 7.1 is better on Mac II machines as they mostly (apart from the 
original Mac II) have the power to run it, and also do better 
multitasking (which is kludged in System 6) and their ability to 
display higher resolution screens means 7.1 makes more sense. The only 
Compact Macs I'd run System 7 on are the SE/30 and the Colour Classics. 
The rest are not quite gutsy enough.

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OT: Olde PC internet Re: IIsi questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- "J.S. Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 5/5/04 1:17 PM, Powermac at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> > You cant use Windows 3.1 with tcp/ip add-on to do
> email?
> > 

> NOT on a 386. I have a 486 that does it on 8MB of
> RAM and I.E. 3.

*ahem*
Windows 3.1 will run on a 286, in Standard Mode.
(Real Mode was removed so it couldn't run on a PC or
XT.)

And on that 286 running Win 3.1 you can install
Internet Explorer 5.01 16bit that comes complete with
a TCP/IP stack and a dialer. Jolly fun, eh?

So of course that same version of IE will run on
Windows For Workgroups 3.11 on a 386. This version
had Standard Mode removed so it required a 386 or
later. It also had 32bit disk and file access.
Combined
with Win32s it can run some Windows 95 programs.
(Most mid 90's apps that said Windows 3.1 or 95 were
Win32s programs.)

There are some relatively unknown Win 3.xx versions.
Windows 3.11 still ran on a 286 but included 32bit
disk access (or was it file access?) for a 386 and
later. There was also the extremely short lived
Windows for Workgroups 3.1, which was 386+ only.
To further confuse things, there was also Workgroups
For Windows 3.11 to add the Workgroups networking
functionality to Windows 3.11. I've never found out
if that would run on a 286. ;)

=
It's total Fandemonium!
http://www.fandemonium.org




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Re: IIsi questions

[Bob C.]

Ah, this is getting terribly off-topic, but I just have to say that my
Compaq 386/25MHz with 10MB of RAM has Windows 3.1 on it, and connects to the
Internet just fine for browsing and email.

However, my on-topic comment is that I still get a huge KICK out of using my
venerable Mac Plus with System 6.0.8 and Eudora 1.3.1 It's simply
amazing...:-)

Bob

> - Original Message -
> on 5/5/04 1:17 PM, Powermac  wrote:
> So whats the difference? My 386 has 32mb of ram and there should be no
> difference between a 386 or a 486 as far as windows 3.1 is concerned.
Maybe
> I will try it just for the heck of it.



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Re: IIsi questions

[Nathan Raymond]

On Wed, 5 May 2004, Clark Martin wrote:

> Not even close, the Mac Plus originally shipped with OS 3.0 IIRC.  OS
> 6 was much later.  The IIsi shipped with OS 6.0.7.

The Plus shipped with System 3.2 if my memory serves, and the IIsi
initially had 6.0.6 but Apple hastily came out with 6.0.7 to fix some
bugs, though most customers never saw it because Apple had already swapped
in 6.0.7 when most machines first shipped.

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Re: IIsi questions

[Powermac]

- Original Message - 
From: "J.S. Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: IIsi questions


> on 5/5/04 1:17 PM, Powermac at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: IIsi questions
> >
> >
> >> on 05/05/2004 10:40 AM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On May 4, 2004, at 05:50 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
> >>>
> >>> *cough* Linux.
> >>
> >> Oh come on, that's cheating when you have resort to using an after
> > market
> >> OS on a PC. :^)
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >
> > You cant use Windows 3.1 with tcp/ip add-on to do email?
> >
> >
>
>
> NOT on a 386. I have a 486 that does it on 8MB of RAM and I.E.
> 3.
>
>
> Jeff G

So whats the difference? My 386 has 32mb of ram and there should be no
difference between a 386 or a 486 as far as windows 3.1 is concerned. Maybe
I will try it just for the heck of it.




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Re: IIsi questions

[Terry Mathews]

Jeff Walther wrote:
The other issue would be finding the dual ported RAM chips, but I bet 
that could be done with some looking around.

SGRAM is dual-ported.
Terry Mathews
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Re: IIsi questions

[J.S. Garrison]

on 5/5/04 1:17 PM, Powermac at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:55 PM
> Subject: Re: IIsi questions
> 
> 
>> on 05/05/2004 10:40 AM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 4, 2004, at 05:50 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
>>> 
>>> *cough* Linux.
>> 
>> Oh come on, that's cheating when you have resort to using an after
> market
>> OS on a PC. :^)
>> 
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
> 
> You cant use Windows 3.1 with tcp/ip add-on to do email?
> 
> 


NOT on a 386. I have a 486 that does it on 8MB of RAM and I.E.
3.


Jeff G


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Re: IIsi questions

[Clark Martin]

At 6:40 PM +0100 5/5/04, Mark Benson wrote:
I'll admit there is something mystically wonderful about a Plus with 
4MB RAM running System 6. It's like the two were made for each 
other. I suppose they were in a way, but still, the same close 
connection between Mac and OS was lost from System 7 onwards IMHO. 
The only thing that even remotely approaches the 'two peas from the 
same pod' feeling is an iMac G4 running OS X, but it's still not 
quite the same...
Not even close, the Mac Plus originally shipped with OS 3.0 IIRC.  OS 
6 was much later.  The IIsi shipped with OS 6.0.7.
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Re: IIsi questions

[Mark Benson]

On May 5, 2004, at 07:32 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
You mean GUI or Command-Line?
I have a RedHat 5.1 I should give it a go.
As long as it's the i386 distro, and you have a card supported by 
XFree86 you sould be able to muster a GUI, probably KDE if it's Red 
Hat.

Meanwhile, I'll still delight in emailing with a
machine that uses only two floppies in two drives,
internal and external, along with an external modem.
It could maybe be done on a Linux box from the command line off one 
disk using a mini-kernel and only the modules required for ppp and 
e-mail and tcp/ip... maybe... I dunno.

There's something that's socounter-technology
about it as to nearly be too cool for words.
I use an Amiga 1200 with  PCI Voodoo3/2000 gfx card plugged into it. 
That's almost as good on the counter-technology stakes :)

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Re: IIsi questions

[Jeff Walther]

Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 12:59:19 +1000
From: Darren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Agreed, its amazing what you can do with 20mb, its a shame about the
ram in the fx, 1990-1992 was the option for 72 pin far off or did
apple have a corner of the 64-pin market? ;)
The 64 pin SIMMs appear to have separate Data-In and Data-Out busses, 
which is different from normal memory where the Data-In and Data-Out 
are the same bus.   Separate busses for reading and writing (In and 
Out) could improve performance, and because Apple tried to soup the 
IIfx up in every way imaginable at the time, that's probably why they 
used the weird RAM.

It wouldn't be too hard to design and build some larger 64 pin SIMMs 
if one could find an affordable source for .050" thick printed 
circuit boards.   These days .063" is the standard and so all the 
specials are on .063".  You have to pay regular 
hurt-me-till-I-charge-it prices for .050" boards.

The other issue would be finding the dual ported RAM chips, but I bet 
that could be done with some looking around.

Jeff Walther
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Re: IIsi questions

[Michael]

on 05/05/2004 11:32 AM, J.S. Garrison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> on 5/5/04 10:40 AM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On May 4, 2004, at 05:50 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
>> 
>>> Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
>> 
>> *cough* Linux.

> 
> Meanwhile, I'll still delight in emailing with a
> machine that uses only two floppies in two drives,
> internal and external, along with an external modem.
> 
> There's something that's socounter-technology
> about it as to nearly be too cool for words.
>

   That's the feeling I have when using the SE, eudora 1.3, and an external
supra express 33.6, though I cheat, when using a hard drive. But... Still
just to Cool for words. :))

   Michael


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Re: IIsi questions

[Powermac]

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: IIsi questions


> on 05/05/2004 10:40 AM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > On May 4, 2004, at 05:50 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
> >
> >> Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
> >
> > *cough* Linux.
>
>Oh come on, that's cheating when you have resort to using an after
market
> OS on a PC. :^)
>
>
>Michael
>

You cant use Windows 3.1 with tcp/ip add-on to do email?



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Re: IIsi questions

[Michael]

on 05/05/2004 10:40 AM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> On May 4, 2004, at 05:50 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
> 
>> Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
> 
> *cough* Linux.

   Oh come on, that's cheating when you have resort to using an after market
OS on a PC. :^)


   Michael 
 
   


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Re: email on vintage computers (was: IIsi questions)

[Norbert van Bemmel]

>Meanwhile, I'll still delight in emailing with a
>machine that uses only two floppies in two drives,
>internal and external, along with an external modem.
>
>There's something that's socounter-technology
>about it as to nearly be too cool for words.

It's not counter-technology! It's a clever use of technology that seems to old to be 
of any use. A welcome answer to the bloated technology of these days.

I vaguely remember that I emailed with my Classic 4/40 in 1995.  Remarkable indeed, 
but even more astonishing for me was emailing on some delapidated Unix terminal in 
Budapest in that same year. Green letters on a black screen and lots of silly 
commands, but it did work! It could have been a telnet program on DOS too, I'm not 
sure, but that terminal can't have had more than 640 kb of RAM.

Norbert

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Re: IIsi questions

[J.S. Garrison]

on 5/5/04 10:40 AM, Mark Benson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> On May 4, 2004, at 05:50 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
> 
>> Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
> 
> *cough* Linux.


You mean GUI or Command-Line?
I have a RedHat 5.1 I should give it a go.

Meanwhile, I'll still delight in emailing with a
machine that uses only two floppies in two drives,
internal and external, along with an external modem.

There's something that's socounter-technology
about it as to nearly be too cool for words.


Jeff G.


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Re: IIsi questions

[Mark Benson]

On May 4, 2004, at 05:50 pm, J.S. Garrison wrote:
Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
*cough* Linux.
The RAM is sparse in the Plus but the machine and it's GUI tend to 
show a
simple superiority for that era that earned my respect through the 
ages.
I'll admit there is something mystically wonderful about a Plus with 
4MB RAM running System 6. It's like the two were made for each other. I 
suppose they were in a way, but still, the same close connection 
between Mac and OS was lost from System 7 onwards IMHO. The only thing 
that even remotely approaches the 'two peas from the same pod' feeling 
is an iMac G4 running OS X, but it's still not quite the same...

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Re: OT: RAM Re: IIsi questions

[Clark Martin]

At 12:21 AM -0700 5/5/04, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
--- Darren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 The memory being an industry standard for its time
 also helps. I have
   need of a 16-32mb 72-pin SOdimm, keyway on the
 side of the pins
 rather than between them. I found a 16mb only to
 find it incompatible.
 The joys of oddball configurations.
In 168 pin DIMMs you have 5 volt FPM, 5 and 3.3 volt
EDO and 3.3 volt SDRAM. There may be other
configurations. The 5 volt FPM and EDO have the same
notch configuration, but they're definitely not the
same as any 3.3 volt, and the 3.3 volt EDO and SDRAM
have unique notches.

The 5V and 3.3V have different notch configurations but only slightly 
different.  If you aren't paying attention you could damage something 
trying to put the wrong device in.

What is irksome is the prices being asked now for the
5 volt EDO my Powermac 7300 needs. :P Hmmm, just
searched some and found it can support up to a gig
of RAM, but OUCH!

I just checked www.ramseeker.com and it showed 128Mb DIMMs from US 
$18 to US $69 with most being around US $25.  So sure it's more 
expensive than newer stuff but that's hardly surprising.  According 
to www.memoryx.net the 7300 can take either FPM or EDO.  Then again, 
do you really need to max it out???
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Re: OT: RAM Re: IIsi questions

[Darren]

Gregg Eshelman wrote:
In 168 pin DIMMs you have 5 volt FPM, 5 and 3.3 volt
EDO and 3.3 volt SDRAM. There may be other
configurations. The 5 volt FPM and EDO have the same
notch configuration, but they're definitely not the
same as any 3.3 volt, and the 3.3 volt EDO and SDRAM
have unique notches.
Pretty much covers the biege pci macs, the nasty 4400/7220 included 
while touching on new-world. 72-pin FPM and EDO are more confusing 
since they dont play well together.

What is irksome is the prices being asked now for the
5 volt EDO my Powermac 7300 needs. :P Hmmm, just
searched some and found it can support up to a gig
of RAM, but OUCH!
FPM or EDO its all treated as FPM, once you get 2 or more the 7300 
will feel better to use. AU$50 per module, you must be able to do 
better than that. ;)

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OT: RAM Re: IIsi questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Darren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The memory being an industry standard for its time
> also helps. I have 
>   need of a 16-32mb 72-pin SOdimm, keyway on the
> side of the pins 
> rather than between them. I found a 16mb only to
> find it incompatible. 
> The joys of oddball configurations.

In 168 pin DIMMs you have 5 volt FPM, 5 and 3.3 volt
EDO and 3.3 volt SDRAM. There may be other
configurations. The 5 volt FPM and EDO have the same
notch configuration, but they're definitely not the
same as any 3.3 volt, and the 3.3 volt EDO and SDRAM
have unique notches.

What is irksome is the prices being asked now for the
5 volt EDO my Powermac 7300 needs. :P Hmmm, just
searched some and found it can support up to a gig
of RAM, but OUCH!

=
It's total Fandemonium!
http://www.fandemonium.org




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Re: IIsi questions

[Darren]

J.S. Garrison wrote:
on 5/4/04 1:19 AM, Powermac at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

I find that older macs have a tendency to take more ram then the same
vintage PC, which allows the use of newer OS then the machine was originally
built for. Still I could run windows 3.1 quite well on my 386/40 with math
coprocessor and 32mb of ram if I wanted to (its used for old dos games and
is equipped for that). In the past I have run windows 95 on a high end 486
system, and they generally max out at 64mb of ram.
The floppy install of 95 is very handy for this, no IE or Outlook or 
tpc stack allows for a better targeted system.

My oldest mac is a IIfx and runs OS 7.1 or is it 7.01 ok with just 20mb of
ram (very hard to find a set of 4 SIMMs bigger then 4mb and too costly even
if you did find some). Still even 20mb is more then enough for the programs
of that vintage.
Agreed, its amazing what you can do with 20mb, its a shame about the 
ram in the fx, 1990-1992 was the option for 72 pin far off or did 
apple have a corner of the 64-pin market? ;)

Being able to upgrade the memory is nice, if you have the need for it.
The memory being an industry standard for its time also helps. I have 
 need of a 16-32mb 72-pin SOdimm, keyway on the side of the pins 
rather than between them. I found a 16mb only to find it incompatible. 
The joys of oddball configurations.


Hi Jeff.
Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.
You have installed a tpc stack? I mean its not that hard. LEM has a 
lowend pc list which maybe of help.

I CAN get a Plus 68k/8Mhz. to email with 4MB of RAM, an external modem and
just floppy driven softwares.
That must be fun, I'd avoid using anything floppy based on a mac, 
never ending disk swaps, it would amaze me if my mail servers had the 
patience to wait. Email is little more than a text editor with a 
console sending commands to your mail server. A decent term program is 
a better comparison.
Email, web browser, ftp, 68000, Amiga! no problem.
Without belittling this fine achievement we should keep in mind that 
the floppy based machine predates the web, personally I'd fire up the 
webtv unit instead.

If I want to, and it won't last but a minute, I can and HAVE made a Mac Plus
websurf with an ancient browser on one disk and connectivity stuff on the
other with only 4MB of RAM.
What do you browse with on a plus? MacWeb? How many disk swaps would 
be required for this lot to fly? You wont to compare port speeds?

The RAM is sparse in the Plus but the machine and it's GUI tend to show a
simple superiority for that era that earned my respect through the ages.
So good they changed very little up to 1999 and then had to change the 
lot. So good everybody has a small part of the classic macos in front 
of them now.

Old pc's and ide macs share the same sorts of memory ceilings, is this 
a flaw with ide somehow?

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Re: IIsi questions

[J.S. Garrison]

on 5/4/04 1:19 AM, Powermac at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
> I find that older macs have a tendency to take more ram then the same
> vintage PC, which allows the use of newer OS then the machine was originally
> built for. Still I could run windows 3.1 quite well on my 386/40 with math
> coprocessor and 32mb of ram if I wanted to (its used for old dos games and
> is equipped for that). In the past I have run windows 95 on a high end 486
> system, and they generally max out at 64mb of ram.
> 
> My oldest mac is a IIfx and runs OS 7.1 or is it 7.01 ok with just 20mb of
> ram (very hard to find a set of 4 SIMMs bigger then 4mb and too costly even
> if you did find some). Still even 20mb is more then enough for the programs
> of that vintage.
> 
> Being able to upgrade the memory is nice, if you have the need for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
Be THAT as it may, I can't get a 386/40 to email.

I CAN get a Plus 68k/8Mhz. to email with 4MB of RAM, an external modem and
just floppy driven softwares.

If I want to, and it won't last but a minute, I can and HAVE made a Mac Plus
websurf with an ancient browser on one disk and connectivity stuff on the
other with only 4MB of RAM.

The RAM is sparse in the Plus but the machine and it's GUI tend to show a
simple superiority for that era that earned my respect through the ages.


Jeff G


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MacTV RAM (was Re: IIsi questions)

[Steve]

Can anyone say if the 72-pin SIMMs at http://www.ramseeker.com/ will work 
in the MacTV?  I'd like to boost my RAM if possible...

Plus, as far as older Macs or older PCs, a lot of time you can squeeze a 
little more life out of them by not using the "native" OS and putting a 
*nix on them and using them for a server-type task


> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "A.Tuazon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:30 AM
> Subject: Re: IIsi questions
> 
> 
> > Thanks folks for all the responses.  I guess I'll be going with 7.1
> and
> > sticking with just 64MB of RAM.  It's great to see several IIsi
> owners
> still
> > out there.  These machines still rock.  They weren't as expandable as
> the
> > IIci's but they were work horses.  I wonder if you could say the same
> for
> > 386 or 486 owners.
> >
> 
> I find that older macs have a tendency to take more ram then the same
> vintage PC, which allows the use of newer OS then the machine was
> originally
> built for. Still I could run windows 3.1 quite well on my 386/40 with
> math
> coprocessor and 32mb of ram if I wanted to (its used for old dos games
> and
> is equipped for that). In the past I have run windows 95 on a high end
> 486
> system, and they generally max out at 64mb of ram.
> 
> My oldest mac is a IIfx and runs OS 7.1 or is it 7.01 ok with just 20mb
> of
> ram (very hard to find a set of 4 SIMMs bigger then 4mb and too costly
> even
> if you did find some). Still even 20mb is more then enough for the
> programs
> of that vintage.
> 
> Being able to upgrade the memory is nice, if you have the need for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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MacTV RAM (was Re: IIsi questions)

[Steve]

Can anyone say if the 72-pin SIMMs at http://www.ramseeker.com/ will work 
in the MacTV?  I'd like to boost my RAM if possible...

Plus, as far as older Macs or older PCs, a lot of time you can squeeze a 
little more life out of them by not using the "native" OS and putting a 
*nix on them and using them for a server-type task


> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "A.Tuazon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:30 AM
> Subject: Re: IIsi questions
> 
> 
> > Thanks folks for all the responses.  I guess I'll be going with 7.1
> and
> > sticking with just 64MB of RAM.  It's great to see several IIsi
> owners
> still
> > out there.  These machines still rock.  They weren't as expandable as
> the
> > IIci's but they were work horses.  I wonder if you could say the same
> for
> > 386 or 486 owners.
> >
> 
> I find that older macs have a tendency to take more ram then the same
> vintage PC, which allows the use of newer OS then the machine was
> originally
> built for. Still I could run windows 3.1 quite well on my 386/40 with
> math
> coprocessor and 32mb of ram if I wanted to (its used for old dos games
> and
> is equipped for that). In the past I have run windows 95 on a high end
> 486
> system, and they generally max out at 64mb of ram.
> 
> My oldest mac is a IIfx and runs OS 7.1 or is it 7.01 ok with just 20mb
> of
> ram (very hard to find a set of 4 SIMMs bigger then 4mb and too costly
> even
> if you did find some). Still even 20mb is more then enough for the
> programs
> of that vintage.
> 
> Being able to upgrade the memory is nice, if you have the need for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Vintage Macs is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and...
> 
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Re: IIsi questions

[Powermac]

- Original Message - 
From: "A.Tuazon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: IIsi questions


> Thanks folks for all the responses.  I guess I'll be going with 7.1 and
> sticking with just 64MB of RAM.  It's great to see several IIsi owners
still
> out there.  These machines still rock.  They weren't as expandable as the
> IIci's but they were work horses.  I wonder if you could say the same for
> 386 or 486 owners.
>

I find that older macs have a tendency to take more ram then the same
vintage PC, which allows the use of newer OS then the machine was originally
built for. Still I could run windows 3.1 quite well on my 386/40 with math
coprocessor and 32mb of ram if I wanted to (its used for old dos games and
is equipped for that). In the past I have run windows 95 on a high end 486
system, and they generally max out at 64mb of ram.

My oldest mac is a IIfx and runs OS 7.1 or is it 7.01 ok with just 20mb of
ram (very hard to find a set of 4 SIMMs bigger then 4mb and too costly even
if you did find some). Still even 20mb is more then enough for the programs
of that vintage.

Being able to upgrade the memory is nice, if you have the need for it.





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Re: IIsi questions

[A.Tuazon]

Thanks folks for all the responses.  I guess I'll be going with 7.1 and
sticking with just 64MB of RAM.  It's great to see several IIsi owners still
out there.  These machines still rock.  They weren't as expandable as the
IIci's but they were work horses.  I wonder if you could say the same for
386 or 486 owners.


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Re: IIsi questions

[Clark Martin]

At 5:38 PM -0700 5/2/04, J.S. Garrison wrote:
on 5/2/04 5:28 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 > 4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
 RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.  It booted up just
 fine, BUT after using any program for about 10+minutes, the whole thing
 freezes.  Any suggestions on how to double the RAM and avoid the system
 freeze?  Anyone know of the highest version of RAMdoubler that will work on
 OS 7.1?
~
Eliminate the RamDoubler. 64MB is plenty for a Mac THAT old. Add virtual
memory to 1 MB more as Apple suggests. The freezing you're experiencing may
go away. If not, run it with the top off, standing on it's side. Heat may be
a factor because of the extra stress on the power supply from all that RAM.
Be sure you have a good hard drive and install of the operating system
you're using.
IIRC there is no advantage to setting VM to 1Mb over PM on a 68K 
system.  The memory management that makes that worthwhile is only on 
PPCs.
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Redwood City, CA, USA
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"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
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Re: IIsi questions

[Clark Martin]

At 11:17 AM -0700 5/2/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "A.Tuazon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: IIsi questions

 Hey folks,
 A few questions regarding my IIsi:
 1) Which OS would be the most optimal for this machine?  6? 7.0? 7.0.1?
7.1?
 7.5? etc.
I use System 6.0.8 with MultiFinder turned ON on my IIsi.  It is much,
much faster than System 7 on these older machines.  It also has a much
smaller memory footprint than System 7.  It boots up to the Finder desktop
in a matter of seconds.  There are extensions and INITs that will expand
the functionality of System 6 to match that of System 7 (TrueType fonts,
virtual memory, etc) so the only real reason to run System 7 on one of
these is if you use a program that absolutely requires it.  I think RAM
Doubler might actually require System 7, but I'm not sure and could be
wrong.  But then, you have to consider if you really *need* RAM Doubler.
Are you ever going to use a program on your IIsi that is going to make use
of 128 megabytes of RAM, or even 64 megabytes? My IIsi has the 'full' 17
megabyte configuration, and I have never once came even *close* to using
all the memory.

Even with the third party software 6.0.8 can only use 16Mb (excluding 
RAM disks).  It is still limited to 24 bit addressing (16Mb).  If you 
want to use more than 16Mb for the system and applications you'll 
need OS 7 or higher.

--
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Re: IIsi questions

[macsonly]

Michael wrote:
> 
> on 05/02/2004 10:15 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > on 04/5/2 10:17 AM, Michael at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> on 05/02/2004 05:28 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >>
> >
> > Actually, the listed max RAM for the IIsi is only a guideline since the max
> > RAM for one stick was only 4MB when the IIsi first came out.  So with the
> > four RAM slots it was originally said that this baby would go up to a
> > whopping 17MB of RAM (1MB was built-in).
> 
>Well I'll be, all this time I was under the impression 17M was the limit.
> That's why I've been using the SE/30 for reading mail. I even went as far as
> pulling mine down out of storage, putting some 8M simm's I picked up a few
> weeks ago, and sure enough 32Megs!
> 
>Try 7.5.3, I do remember, if nothing else, that mine seemed to run best
> with it, of course that was with 17M of RAM. I will have to set it up and
> see what it'll do now.
> 
> >
> > As for the sticks I found them using ramseeker.com.
> 
>ramseeker.com, thanks I'll go there and see what I can do.
> 
> Damn I  like this place, you learn something new and wonderful about these
> Macs every day your around hear, and people are Nice. :-)
> 

along with this thread has anyone tried a simm doubler w/ 2 16 meg simms
to give 128 meg? i know a simm doubler works w/ 2 4 meg sticks for 33
meg but have not tried more.
charles

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Re: IIsi questions

[macsonly]

try computer flea markets and on lem swap list

Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> 

> 
> Griffin sells an adaptor that'll run any PC monitor
> off any DB15 Mac video port. Unfortunately it costs
> around $50, for which you could buy about four IIsi
> and Apple monitors to match. ;P
>

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Re: IIsi questions

[Michael]

on 05/02/2004 10:15 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> on 04/5/2 10:17 AM, Michael at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> on 05/02/2004 05:28 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> 
> 
> Actually, the listed max RAM for the IIsi is only a guideline since the max
> RAM for one stick was only 4MB when the IIsi first came out.  So with the
> four RAM slots it was originally said that this baby would go up to a
> whopping 17MB of RAM (1MB was built-in).

   Well I'll be, all this time I was under the impression 17M was the limit.
That's why I've been using the SE/30 for reading mail. I even went as far as
pulling mine down out of storage, putting some 8M simm's I picked up a few
weeks ago, and sure enough 32Megs!

   Try 7.5.3, I do remember, if nothing else, that mine seemed to run best
with it, of course that was with 17M of RAM. I will have to set it up and
see what it'll do now.


> 
> As for the sticks I found them using ramseeker.com.

   ramseeker.com, thanks I'll go there and see what I can do.


Damn I  like this place, you learn something new and wonderful about these
Macs every day your around hear, and people are Nice. :-)



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Re: IIsi questions

[John Niven]

On Monday, May 3, 2004, at 12:30  PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
--- Clark Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 8:28 AM -0400 5/2/04, A.Tuazon wrote:

3) If I had a VGA adapter, would it work on the
IIsi?  (it's a little
doohickey thingy that clips over the built-in Apple
video port and turns it
into a VGA port).  Anyone if it does work what
would I expect in terms of
size of screen, quality of video, etc.
Only if the VGA monitor in question supports
Sync-On-Green.  They exist but are very rare.
Griffin sells an adaptor that'll run any PC monitor
off any DB15 Mac video port. Unfortunately it costs
around $50, for which you could buy about four IIsi
and Apple monitors to match. ;P
Another option would be a IIsi NuBus adapter. This would allow the use 
of a whole variaty of NuBus Video cards, and give you an on-board FPU. 
One of them cheap mac to VGA doohickies would work then. I use one with 
a Radius video card in a IIci.

John
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Re: IIsi questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Clark Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 8:28 AM -0400 5/2/04, A.Tuazon wrote:

> >3) If I had a VGA adapter, would it work on the
> IIsi?  (it's a little
> >doohickey thingy that clips over the built-in Apple
> video port and turns it
> >into a VGA port).  Anyone if it does work what
> would I expect in terms of
> >size of screen, quality of video, etc.
> 
> Only if the VGA monitor in question supports
> Sync-On-Green.  They exist but are very rare.

Griffin sells an adaptor that'll run any PC monitor
off any DB15 Mac video port. Unfortunately it costs
around $50, for which you could buy about four IIsi
and Apple monitors to match. ;P

=
It's total Fandemonium!
http://www.fandemonium.org




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Re: IIsi questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- "A.Tuazon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey folks,
> 
> A few questions regarding my IIsi:
> 
> 1) Which OS would be the most optimal for this
> machine?  6? 7.0? 7.0.1? 7.1?
> 7.5? etc.

7.1 for speed. 7.5.5 if you have something to run
that absolutely will not run in 7.1.

> 2) I just got in my possession an old IBM 4019 laser
> printer.  If I wanted
> to hookup this printer to the IIsi, which version of
> Powerprint do I need?

4.5.2 was the final version with 68k support. You
need their serial to parallel cable. If you pick
up a version of it used, e-mail the company at
http://www.strydent.com and tell them the version,
serial number and any info that's on the cable you
get with it. I bought 3.0.0 on eBay and they gave
me a free upgrade to 4.5, which is the latest version
that works with the cable 3.0.0 came with. If they
still list a serial version on the site, they'll
sell you version 4.5.2 of the software with the
cable.

> 3) If I had a VGA adapter, would it work on the
> IIsi?  (it's a little
> doohickey thingy that clips over the built-in Apple
> video port and turns it
> into a VGA port).  Anyone if it does work what would
> I expect in terms of
> size of screen, quality of video, etc.

You need an adaptor that can be manually set to one
resolution. You'll get the same video options as
you would with an Apple monitor.

> 4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs). 
> I then installed
> RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to
> 128MB.

Skip RAM Doubler. There's nothing you'd want to sit
around and wait on at 20Mhz that needs that much RAM,
real or virtual. ;) Get the IIsi RAM Muncher Init.
What that does is "munches" or fills up any of the
first one meg (Bank A) that's not being used by the
video. It speeds up the IIsi a bit because the CPU
and video cannot access Bank A at the same time.
The muncher just sits there quietly so that whenever
the CPU "peeks in" at Bank A it gets the message
that there's nothing to do there and goes back to
Bank B.

Try RAM Charger. This program is what Apple should
have licensed years ago to replace their poor
memory management. RAM Charger constantly defragments
the memory space so that all free blocks appear as
a single block. It also allows applications to
dynamically access more memory as they need, then
takes it back when it's no being used. You can still
set minimum memory sizes. That's for pesky apps that
expect a certain amount of memory available
immediately
when they start. See www.jumpdev.com

You can also overclock a IIsi to 25Mhz without a
problem (most of the time). Apple was originally
going to sell it and the IIci both at 25Mhz then
decided that the less expensive IIsi might cut into
IIci sales. As if anyone who expected to do any
expanding or upgrading on their Mac would buy the
IIsi over the IIci. Cutting the IIsi down by 5Mhz
probably just helped sell fewer Macs. :P
Anyway, all the parts in the IIsi are rated for 25Mhz
except the CPU.

CPUs have for many years all been made to a design
speed specification. Then as they're made, they are
"binned" by being tested first at the design speed
then stepping down in intervals to see if ones that
fail at that speed are stable at slower speeds.
As a CPU design matures (nears obsolete) the company
just starts marking the Mhz on them according to
market demands. (Of course they're still tested at
the marked speed.)
So the older a 20Mhz 030 is, the less likely it'll be
stable at 25Mhz.

=
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Re: IIsi questions

[J.S. Garrison]

on 5/2/04 5:28 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hey folks,
> 
> A few questions regarding my IIsi:
> 
> 1) Which OS would be the most optimal for this machine?  6? 7.0? 7.0.1? 7.1?
> 7.5? etc.
~
7.1 or 7.5.3 are my choices.

~
> 2) I just got in my possession an old IBM 4019 laser printer.  If I wanted
> to hookup this printer to the IIsi, which version of Powerprint do I need?

~~
Dunno. Google it and see what you get back.

~ 
> 3) If I had a VGA adapter, would it work on the IIsi?  (it's a little
> doohickey thingy that clips over the built-in Apple video port and turns it
> into a VGA port).  Anyone if it does work what would I expect in terms of
> size of screen, quality of video, etc.



Is this because you don't have a suitable Mac monitor? Any VGA monitor
that's sync-on-green savvy should do.

~~~
> 4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
> RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.  It booted up just
> fine, BUT after using any program for about 10+minutes, the whole thing
> freezes.  Any suggestions on how to double the RAM and avoid the system
> freeze?  Anyone know of the highest version of RAMdoubler that will work on
> OS 7.1?

~

Eliminate the RamDoubler. 64MB is plenty for a Mac THAT old. Add virtual
memory to 1 MB more as Apple suggests. The freezing you're experiencing may
go away. If not, run it with the top off, standing on it's side. Heat may be
a factor because of the extra stress on the power supply from all that RAM.
Be sure you have a good hard drive and install of the operating system
you're using.

~~
> I must say it was quite interesting to see this eary 90's machine show 128MB
> for memory (even for a little while) and the OS only using up about 2-3 MB.
> These days it seems you need at least 512MB just to run the OS properly.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 


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Re: IIsi questions

[Bob Johnson]

On Sunday, May 2, 2004, at 03:30  PM, Vintage Macs wrote:
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 08:28:49 -0400
Subject: IIsi questions
From: "A.Tuazon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hey folks,
A few questions regarding my IIsi:
1) Which OS would be the most optimal for this machine?  6? 7.0? 
7.0.1? 7.1?
7.5? etc.
My preference for all 68030 machines is 7.1, with additions from 7.5 
and 8 (appearance manager, etc).


4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.  It booted up 
just
fine, BUT after using any program for about 10+minutes, the whole thing
freezes.  Any suggestions on how to double the RAM and avoid the system
freeze?  Anyone know of the highest version of RAMdoubler that will 
work on
OS 7.1?
You don't say how big the hard drive is.  Keep in mind that Ram Doubler 
and other virtual memory schemes use the disk drive and then swap stuff 
that's being used from the disk drive to the actual physical RAM and 
back.  So you have to have more free space on the hard drive than the 
amount of virtual memory that you are trying to create.  Also remember 
that using this virtual memory is slow because it requires hard disk 
accesses to swap the info in and out of the physical RAM.

Bob
---
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Re: IIsi questions

[nathall]

- Original Message -
From: "A.Tuazon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vintage Macs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: IIsi questions


> Hey folks,
>
> A few questions regarding my IIsi:
>
> 1) Which OS would be the most optimal for this machine?  6? 7.0? 7.0.1?
7.1?
> 7.5? etc.
>

I use System 6.0.8 with MultiFinder turned ON on my IIsi.  It is much,
much faster than System 7 on these older machines.  It also has a much
smaller memory footprint than System 7.  It boots up to the Finder desktop
in a matter of seconds.  There are extensions and INITs that will expand
the functionality of System 6 to match that of System 7 (TrueType fonts,
virtual memory, etc) so the only real reason to run System 7 on one of
these is if you use a program that absolutely requires it.  I think RAM
Doubler might actually require System 7, but I'm not sure and could be
wrong.  But then, you have to consider if you really *need* RAM Doubler.
Are you ever going to use a program on your IIsi that is going to make use
of 128 megabytes of RAM, or even 64 megabytes? My IIsi has the 'full' 17
megabyte configuration, and I have never once came even *close* to using
all the memory.

> 3) If I had a VGA adapter, would it work on the IIsi?  (it's a little
> doohickey thingy that clips over the built-in Apple video port and turns
it
> into a VGA port).  Anyone if it does work what would I expect in terms
of
> size of screen, quality of video, etc.
>

I have a few of these.  One of them doesn't have any dip switches, and
apparently tries to sense the video mode automatically.  The rest of them
*do* have dip switches which allow you to specify what kind of video
conversion you're going to need.  I tried the 'automatic' one (the one
without the dip switches) on the IIsi at one point, and it didn't work.
Apparently the IIsi's built-in video hardware isn't smart enough for
these.  The same adapter works fine on my PowerMac 6300.  I think I read
somewhere that the ones that *do* have dip switches on them, if set
correctly, will work on a IIsi.  I have never tried the dip-switched ones
I have on it, though, because I like the stock IIsi monitor just fine.
Especially since it draws it's power from the back of the CPU box and
hitting the power key on the keyboard will power up the computer *and* the
monitor in just one keypress.

These things can be had very cheap, though, I got mine for $3/piece
brand-new.

As far as quality goes, it will vary depending on what kind of VGA/SVGA
monitor you are using on your Mac.  You'll get basically the same picture
quality on any given monitor that you would get when using that monitor on
a PC.  Size of picture can be controlled using the monitor's sizing
controls, just as on a PC.  Pretty much any VGA/SVGA monitor made in the
last 10 or so years has sizing controls.

I noticed when I first hooked up an SVGA monitor to my PowerMac that the
colors looked different somehow, like they were a few shades lighter than
they were with the stock Macintosh monitor.  This, again, will vary
depending on what monitor you use.  Generally, the cheaper the monitor,
the worse the color will be.  Anyway, I was able to get the color pretty
damn close to what it looked like on the Mac monitor by fiddling with the
brightness and contrast controls on the monitor, along with the Gamma
controls in the Monitors control panel.

> 4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
> RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.  It booted up
just
> fine, BUT after using any program for about 10+minutes, the whole thing
> freezes.  Any suggestions on how to double the RAM and avoid the system
> freeze?  Anyone know of the highest version of RAMdoubler that will work
on
> OS 7.1?

FWIW, I have never been able to get RAM Doubler to run smoothly on my
IIsi.  Perhaps it is because, like someone else mentioned, that the IIsi
uses the first megabyte of RAM for video RAM.  I don't know.


Good luck,
  Nat


Nat Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: IIsi questions

[Clark Martin]

At 8:28 AM -0400 5/2/04, A.Tuazon wrote:
Hey folks,
A few questions regarding my IIsi:
1) Which OS would be the most optimal for this machine?  6? 7.0? 7.0.1? 7.1?
7.5? etc.
My preference is 7.6.1.  It's the latest you can normally use.  It 
works quite well.

3) If I had a VGA adapter, would it work on the IIsi?  (it's a little
doohickey thingy that clips over the built-in Apple video port and turns it
into a VGA port).  Anyone if it does work what would I expect in terms of
size of screen, quality of video, etc.
Only if the VGA monitor in question supports Sync-On-Green.  They 
exist but are very rare.  The size of screen and quality are entirely 
dependent on the VGA monitor.  The max resolution it will support is 
640x480x256.  The IIsi does support 640x870 but AFAIK VGA monitors 
don't support that resolution.

4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.  It booted up just
fine, BUT after using any program for about 10+minutes, the whole thing
freezes.  Any suggestions on how to double the RAM and avoid the system
freeze?  Anyone know of the highest version of RAMdoubler that will work on
OS 7.1?
I hope you are doing this just as an exercise in maxing out the IIsi. 
Even 65 Mb is more than it can realistically use, just the time it 
takes to read in enough data to fill 65Mb.

As to the freeze, try running a disk optimizer with RAMDoubler off 
then turn it on and reboot.  It's possible the larger swap space is 
running into a conflict with the disk fragmentation.

I must say it was quite interesting to see this eary 90's machine show 128MB
for memory (even for a little while) and the OS only using up about 2-3 MB.
These days it seems you need at least 512MB just to run the OS properly.
Not quite that much.  But you are talking about machines that can 
access your 65Mb of RAM in next to no time.  You could use a 1+GHz G5 
to run OS 7.5.3 say but would you really want to?
--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
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Re: IIsi questions

[A.Tuazon]

on 04/5/2 10:17 AM, Michael at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> on 05/02/2004 05:28 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> Hey folks,
>> 
>> A few questions regarding my IIsi:
>> 
>> 4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
>> RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.
> 
> 
>  Would love to know what number is on the ROM stick, that let's it do
> that. Or has someone put an SE/30 in that IIsi.(they can only get 17M of
> RAM, and IIRC RAMDoubler won't work right because the system uses RAM for
> the video.)
>  Also where did you get the four 16 meg 30pin simm's, I could use about
> eight in my SE/30, and that would give me 128M of True RAM to double.
> 

Actually, the listed max RAM for the IIsi is only a guideline since the max
RAM for one stick was only 4MB when the IIsi first came out.  So with the
four RAM slots it was originally said that this baby would go up to a
whopping 17MB of RAM (1MB was built-in).

As for the sticks I found them using ramseeker.com.  It listed the cheapest
prices for ram sticks you can buy online.  My IIsi is chugging along just
fine with the 65MB of RAM.  As for RAMdoubler the old copy worked great when
I only had 8MB of RAM and it boosted it to 16MB.







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Re: IIsi questions

[Michael]

on 05/02/2004 05:28 AM, A.Tuazon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hey folks,
> 
> A few questions regarding my IIsi:
>
> 4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
> RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.


   Would love to know what number is on the ROM stick, that let's it do
that. Or has someone put an SE/30 in that IIsi.(they can only get 17M of
RAM, and IIRC RAMDoubler won't work right because the system uses RAM for
the video.)
   Also where did you get the four 16 meg 30pin simm's, I could use about
eight in my SE/30, and that would give me 128M of True RAM to double.  


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IIsi questions

[A.Tuazon]

Hey folks,

A few questions regarding my IIsi:

1) Which OS would be the most optimal for this machine?  6? 7.0? 7.0.1? 7.1?
7.5? etc.

2) I just got in my possession an old IBM 4019 laser printer.  If I wanted
to hookup this printer to the IIsi, which version of Powerprint do I need?

3) If I had a VGA adapter, would it work on the IIsi?  (it's a little
doohickey thingy that clips over the built-in Apple video port and turns it
into a VGA port).  Anyone if it does work what would I expect in terms of
size of screen, quality of video, etc.

4) I loaded the IIsi to the max with RAM (64megs).  I then installed
RamDoubler (an old copy) and doubled the RAM to 128MB.  It booted up just
fine, BUT after using any program for about 10+minutes, the whole thing
freezes.  Any suggestions on how to double the RAM and avoid the system
freeze?  Anyone know of the highest version of RAMdoubler that will work on
OS 7.1?

I must say it was quite interesting to see this eary 90's machine show 128MB
for memory (even for a little while) and the OS only using up about 2-3 MB.
These days it seems you need at least 512MB just to run the OS properly.

Thanks in advance!



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AOL screen names(was: Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions)

[SaulBro]

Gregg wrote:  

<>

That's strange.   When I first signed up for AOL, I chose the screen name 
*Saul Bro*(how clever of me, since no one would remember the unusual spelling 
of my last name), and wondered whether it was case-sensitive.  But I 
ordinarily just use(and give out) my email address with lower case letters 
and no space and have never had any trouble. *Saul Bro* does show up on 
buddylists, but I do cringe when someone on my buddylist has all caps 
ostentatiously in his/her screen name because they originally chose this.   I 
also hate it when people put a space before the subject line in an e-mail so 
that the e-mail saved as text will come to the top of a folder in list view.  
  ;-)

Saul Broudy

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http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com
---

Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[the pickle]

At 11:29 -0500 on 04/11/02, Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:

>On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 10:38:36AM +0100, mart wrote:
>
>> Sitting on top of a IIsi, the M1212 undoubtedly LOOKS the best. It combines
>> great with the case design of the IIsi.
>> Whether it VIEWS the best, well, the Apple High-Res RGB has, being a
>> Trinitron, a darker black and is slightly sharper. Both are 640 x 480
>> monitors. The M1212 can be had for as little as 5 to 10 Euro/Dollars.
>
>Is there a monitor in that size range that will do 832x634 or 800x600?

The closest I can think of would be a Multiple Scan 15.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 

Software Archive


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http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com
---

Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Charles Shannon Hendrix]

On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 10:38:36AM +0100, mart wrote:

> Sitting on top of a IIsi, the M1212 undoubtedly LOOKS the best. It combines
> great with the case design of the IIsi. 
> Whether it VIEWS the best, well, the Apple High-Res RGB has, being a
> Trinitron, a darker black and is slightly sharper. Both are 640 x 480
> monitors. The M1212 can be had for as little as 5 to 10 Euro/Dollars. 

Is there a monitor in that size range that will do 832x634 or 800x600?

Everything I can think of that will work nicely with my Radius P24 card
is too large to sit on something like a II.


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---

Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > >My Mac Iisi:
> 
> Try the IIsi RAM Muncher INIT. That "munches up" all
> of the 1 megabyte Bank A that is not being used by
> the video buffer.

You can also just make a 768K disk cache in the Memory control panel,
which has an equivalent effect.

Or install an 8*24*GC. :-)

-- 
- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
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-- Life is too important to take seriously. -- Corky Siegel ---

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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[mart]

>1. What's the best monitor for a Mac Iisi? Right now, I use an AudioVision
>14, but if I ever put it on another Mac, I'd like to know a good monitor for
>it.

Sitting on top of a IIsi, the M1212 undoubtedly LOOKS the best. It combines
great with the case design of the IIsi. 
Whether it VIEWS the best, well, the Apple High-Res RGB has, being a
Trinitron, a darker black and is slightly sharper. Both are 640 x 480
monitors. The M1212 can be had for as little as 5 to 10 Euro/Dollars. 

-mart


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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Ian Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'll pull it out and try it again, then. I've
> upgraded a lot of the Iisi's
> parts since I last tried that monitor. (Sorry the
> second "I" in Iisi keeps
> showing up as lower case. My email program does that
> automatically and I
> haven't played with all of the settings yet.)
> 
> Could I get 256 colors on it?

Could be dead onboard video. 256 colors is the best
the onboard video in a IIsi can do.

As for the e-mail program, does it insist you cannot
have the first part of an e-mail address ALL CAPS?
If som you'll have problems sending mail to some
AOL users whose screen name is all capital letters.

I ran into that doing "helldesk" for an ISP. Some
customer using Outlook Express couldn't e-mail her
AOL using daughter because OE would insist on "fixing"
the address. *sigh* why AOL would ever allow caps
at all in an e-mail address GR!

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More than ever hour after our work is never over." Daft Punk

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Re: Mac IIsi Questions (Mac II Monitors with IIsi)

[Philip Stortz]

or, better post a wanted ad on the swap list, you'll likely get several replies.  i 
got a great deal on these cables last time i needed one that way.  


> >I also have a "Macintosh Portait Display" which requires a special cable.
> >Does anyone know where to get these?
> 
> Any cable with a DB-15 on one end and a 13W3 on the other should work.  Try
> eBay.

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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Gregg Eshelman]

> At 1:16 PM -0500 11/3/2002, Ian Johnson wrote:
> >My Mac Iisi:

Try the IIsi RAM Muncher INIT. That "munches up" all
of the 1 megabyte Bank A that is not being used by
the video buffer. Why does this help? Because when
programs or parts of the System are using Bank A, the
video has to wait to read or write its section of
Bank A. With the RAM Muncher sitting there doing
nothing, the video gets the maximum possible clock
ticks to read and write its buffer and update the
display. Video still gets interrupted at the scheduled
intervals but control always is immediately returned
to video because RAM Muncher is sitting there like a
rock doing nada. :)

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Re: 2 Mac IIsi Questions (Mac II Monitors with IIsi)

[Ian Johnson]

On 11/3/02 7:31 PM, "Clark Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 7:13 PM -0500 11/3/2002, Ian Johnson wrote:
>> I just tried the monitor again and still no luck. Does anyone have an idea
>> as to what's wrong? For people who haven't read this yet, it's an:
>> 
>> AppleColor High-Resolution RGB Monitor (Model Number M0401)

> 
> 
> What happens?  Have you tried zapping the PRAM.
> I've used this model often with IIsis, no problemo.

Haven't tried the PRAM zap yet. Here's what happens:

I unplug my AudioVision 14 from the IIsi and plug the AppleColor in.

Hit the power key on the IIsi's keyboard, it turns on.

I hear all of the system sounds, etc. but the AppleColor just sits there
with its power light on and shows no image whatsoever. The blackness doesn't
even brighten to show that the display is on.

I know this monitor is good because it works when plugged into a Mac II's
video card on the same IIsi.


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Re: 2 Mac IIsi Questions (Mac II Monitors with IIsi)

[the pickle]

At 19:13 -0500 on 03/11/02, Ian Johnson wrote:

>I just tried the monitor again and still no luck. Does anyone have an idea
>as to what's wrong? For people who haven't read this yet, it's an:
>
>AppleColor High-Resolution RGB Monitor (Model Number M0401)

Weird.  Yeah, like Clark said, try zapping the PRAM.

>I also have a "Macintosh Portait Display" which requires a special cable.
>Does anyone know where to get these?

Any cable with a DB-15 on one end and a 13W3 on the other should work.  Try
eBay.
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Re: 2 Mac IIsi Questions (Mac II Monitors with IIsi)

[Clark Martin]

At 7:13 PM -0500 11/3/2002, Ian Johnson wrote:
>I just tried the monitor again and still no luck. Does anyone have an idea
>as to what's wrong? For people who haven't read this yet, it's an:
>
>AppleColor High-Resolution RGB Monitor (Model Number M0401)
>
>Probably the oldest Macintosh hardware I've got, manufactured June 1988.
>
>I also have a "Macintosh Portait Display" which requires a special cable.
>Does anyone know where to get these?


What happens?  Have you tried zapping the PRAM.

I've used this model often with IIsis, no problemo.
-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: 2 Mac IIsi Questions (Mac II Monitors with IIsi)

[Ian Johnson]

On 11/3/02 6:50 PM, "the pickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> I'll pull it out and try it again, then. I've upgraded a lot of the Iisi's
>> parts since I last tried that monitor. (Sorry the second "I" in Iisi keeps
>> showing up as lower case. My email program does that automatically and I
>> haven't played with all of the settings yet.)
>> 
>> Could I get 256 colors on it?

> Should do, yes.

I just tried the monitor again and still no luck. Does anyone have an idea
as to what's wrong? For people who haven't read this yet, it's an:

AppleColor High-Resolution RGB Monitor (Model Number M0401)

Probably the oldest Macintosh hardware I've got, manufactured June 1988.

I also have a "Macintosh Portait Display" which requires a special cable.
Does anyone know where to get these?


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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[the pickle]

At 18:45 -0500 on 03/11/02, Ian Johnson wrote:

>On 11/3/02 6:36 PM, "the pickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> You couldn't get that to work with the IIsi?
>>>
>>> Not with the built-in video, just with the Mac II video card in the NuBus
>>> slot. Is it supposed to?
>>
>> Yes.
>
>I'll pull it out and try it again, then. I've upgraded a lot of the Iisi's
>parts since I last tried that monitor. (Sorry the second "I" in Iisi keeps
>showing up as lower case. My email program does that automatically and I
>haven't played with all of the settings yet.)
>
>Could I get 256 colors on it?

Should do, yes.
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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Ian Johnson]

On 11/3/02 6:36 PM, "the pickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You couldn't get that to work with the IIsi?
>> 
>> Not with the built-in video, just with the Mac II video card in the NuBus
>> slot. Is it supposed to?
> 
> Yes.

I'll pull it out and try it again, then. I've upgraded a lot of the Iisi's
parts since I last tried that monitor. (Sorry the second "I" in Iisi keeps
showing up as lower case. My email program does that automatically and I
haven't played with all of the settings yet.)

Could I get 256 colors on it?


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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[the pickle]

At 18:24 -0500 on 03/11/02, Ian Johnson wrote:

>On 11/3/02 2:11 PM, "the pickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> At 14:06 -0500 on 03/11/02, Ian Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> I have one of the "AppleColor High-Resolution RGB" monitos that are always
>>> shown in pictures of the original Mac II. My II is broken, so I tried it on
>>> a few other Macs. The only way it would work, though, was if it was plugged
>>> into the broken Mac II's video card which fortunately still works when
>>> plugged into another NuBus Mac.
>>
>> You couldn't get that to work with the IIsi?
>
>Not with the built-in video, just with the Mac II video card in the NuBus
>slot. Is it supposed to?

Yes.
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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Ian Johnson]

On 11/3/02 2:11 PM, "the pickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 14:06 -0500 on 03/11/02, Ian Johnson wrote:
> 
>> I have one of the "AppleColor High-Resolution RGB" monitos that are always
>> shown in pictures of the original Mac II. My II is broken, so I tried it on
>> a few other Macs. The only way it would work, though, was if it was plugged
>> into the broken Mac II's video card which fortunately still works when
>> plugged into another NuBus Mac.
> 
> You couldn't get that to work with the IIsi?

Not with the built-in video, just with the Mac II video card in the NuBus
slot. Is it supposed to?


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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Clark Martin]

At 1:16 PM -0500 11/3/2002, Ian Johnson wrote:
>My Mac Iisi:
>20MHz MAC68030
>Apple NuBus Adapter with 68882 FPU and Apple NB Ethernet Card
>Apple 80MB SCSI Hard Disk (from an LC III)
>17 MB of RAM
>System 7.1 Update 3 w/ Thread manager, CFM-68k, Drag & Drop, Finder 7.1.3
>External SCSI AppleCD 300e Plus
>External DB-19 SuperDrive floppy
>AudioVision 14 Monitor
>AppleDesign Keyboard and ADB Mouse II
>
>1. What's the best monitor for a Mac Iisi? Right now, I use an AudioVision
>14, but if I ever put it on another Mac, I'd like to know a good monitor for
>it.


That's the highest resolution color monitor you can use without a 
PDS/NuBus video card.  It needs a Sync-On-Green monitor.  Most/All 
Apple monitors of 13 or 14" size will work.  Some third party 
monitors work also.

>
>2. I enabled 32-bit addressing and it made the System take up 9MB less RAM,
>but my system performance seems slower. What are the advantages and
>disadvantages of 32-bit addressing?


Under 24 bit addressing the system isn't using more RAM, it's just 
that it reports all the memory over 8Mb as in use by the System.  24 
bit addressing only allows for 8Mb RAM usually.  32 bit addressing 
allows (in theory) up to 2Gb RAM but the IIsi is limited to quite a 
bit less than that by it's memory controller.

Having more memory available can sometimes seem to make the system 
run slower.  More of a program can be loaded if more memory is 
available which takes longer to load it but once it's loaded the 
system is faster.

With Systems 7.0 through 7.5.5 the option of 24 vs 32 bit addressing 
is primarily there for compatibility with some older software.  Said 
software won't work under 32 bit addressing.  Otherwise you would 
normally use 32 bit addressing.




-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[the pickle]

At 14:06 -0500 on 03/11/02, Ian Johnson wrote:

>I have one of the "AppleColor High-Resolution RGB" monitos that are always
>shown in pictures of the original Mac II. My II is broken, so I tried it on
>a few other Macs. The only way it would work, though, was if it was plugged
>into the broken Mac II's video card which fortunately still works when
>plugged into another NuBus Mac.

You couldn't get that to work with the IIsi?
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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Ian Johnson]

On 11/3/02 1:31 PM, "the pickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Anything that'll do 640x480 is pretty good; the IIsi won't do more than that
> at
> common resolutions IIRC.  I like the Apple High-Res RGB monitors that are
> fixed-frequency 640x480 Trinitrons.

I have one of the "AppleColor High-Resolution RGB" monitos that are always
shown in pictures of the original Mac II. My II is broken, so I tried it on
a few other Macs. The only way it would work, though, was if it was plugged
into the broken Mac II's video card which fortunately still works when
plugged into another NuBus Mac.

> Seems is probably the operative word there.  It's highly unlikely there's any
> difference.  Without it on, however, you're stuck with 8MB RAM max, which is a
> HUGE drawback.

So that's why it said the System was taking up 11 Megs of RAM with 32-bit
off.


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Re: 2 Mac Iisi Questions

[the pickle]

At 13:16 -0500 on 03/11/02, Ian Johnson wrote:

>1. What's the best monitor for a Mac Iisi? Right now, I use an AudioVision
>14, but if I ever put it on another Mac, I'd like to know a good monitor for
>it.

Anything that'll do 640x480 is pretty good; the IIsi won't do more than that at
common resolutions IIRC.  I like the Apple High-Res RGB monitors that are
fixed-frequency 640x480 Trinitrons.

>2. I enabled 32-bit addressing and it made the System take up 9MB less RAM,
>but my system performance seems slower. What are the advantages and
>disadvantages of 32-bit addressing?

Seems is probably the operative word there.  It's highly unlikely there's any
difference.  Without it on, however, you're stuck with 8MB RAM max, which is a
HUGE drawback.
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2 Mac Iisi Questions

[Ian Johnson]

My Mac Iisi:
20MHz MAC68030
Apple NuBus Adapter with 68882 FPU and Apple NB Ethernet Card
Apple 80MB SCSI Hard Disk (from an LC III)
17 MB of RAM
System 7.1 Update 3 w/ Thread manager, CFM-68k, Drag & Drop, Finder 7.1.3
External SCSI AppleCD 300e Plus
External DB-19 SuperDrive floppy
AudioVision 14 Monitor
AppleDesign Keyboard and ADB Mouse II

1. What's the best monitor for a Mac Iisi? Right now, I use an AudioVision
14, but if I ever put it on another Mac, I'd like to know a good monitor for
it.

2. I enabled 32-bit addressing and it made the System take up 9MB less RAM,
but my system performance seems slower. What are the advantages and
disadvantages of 32-bit addressing?


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