Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Esther Levegnale]

hey, Diane and everyone, kudos to all of you! I totally agree with all of you! Take care and have a super weekend everyone! EstherSent From Esther's Amazing and Awesome iPhone 13 Pro Max!On Apr 5, 2024, at 8:46 AM, Diane Giannetti  wrote:Amen to that one Dana. I couldn’t agree with you more.Sent from Diane's awesome iPhone!On Apr 5, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Dana Leet  wrote:No one in the Blind community complains when prices go up at McDonald’s or if prices change on anything else that they have that is available in the court “sided world. I think this is utterly ridiculous that people were complaining about the people at VoiceStream reader having to make changes so that the app can stay around for a while, because costs for everything have skyrocketed. I should know trying to buy a house. The values of homes are double even triple what they were five years ago. It’s ridiculous right now. My thing is why complain. Be happy that we have something that works so well. What else is out there that even works half as good as this app with reading things on our devices. People are going to mess around and get the whole thing lost for all of us which is absolutely not a good idea at all. I applaud the people at applause that make voice stream reader, because I think it is an amazing app. And I will continue to support them.  I think it is absolutely ridiculous. How much this is gone on and on and on. Nobody complains about paying for Netflix, Hulu, YouTube TV, all these other things that whatever have you and just so you guys know this app is not only for people that are blind. It’s for people that have other reading disabilities as well.  So honestly I think 50 something dollars a year is ridiculous. That’s basically a dollar a week I don’t understand why you guys are complaining so much. It’s just absolutely ridiculous and it just makes me not proud to be blind. Dana. On Mar 31, 2024, at 5:20 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t go away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I do think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have pissed off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is now.  The question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the blind community.2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never seen the community so united. From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hi Arnold, None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update. However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team doesn't catch everything. Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.Grant Hardy  On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt <als5...@gmail.com> wrote:Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go.  Arnold Schmidt  Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hi Arnold, As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them. However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Richard, nobody is complaining about the price going up. Nobody is
complaining about the switch to a subscription model. That's not what this
thread is about at all. My only concern is them taking away my previous
purchase. To use your example about real estate. Imagine you own a home.
Prices are going up for new home buyers and that's fine. But now imagine
someone comes to your door and announces that as of May 1st, you don't own
your home anymore, you must start paying rent on it from now on if you want
to live there anymore or you will lose it. That's an over-the-top analogy,
but it's exactly what is happening with this mobile app. The price going up
is not the issue. It's disabling previous purchases that's the issue.


Grant Hardy


On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 8:06 AM Richard Turner 
wrote:

> Dana, you are 100% correct in my opinion.
>
> I know some are claiming to be upset on the principle of the thing, but
> reality is everything costs more.  Your example of house prices is spot
> on.  Not to mention rent, and all those streaming services which have also
> increased in price and some don’t even do a halfway decent job of passing
> through audio description and yet people don’t complain like this.  We were
> fortunate to buy a house in 2006, when prices had jumped a good chunk but
> we worked it out and now, almost 18 years later, our house is worth 2 and a
> half times what we paid for it and it is almost paid off.
>
>
>
> It is really too bad that Googlegroups do not offer the mute thread option
> that groups.io does; but again, the owners would have to pay for groups.io
> which may mean they would have to charge for membership, wouldn’t that be
> fun!  藍
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard, USA
>
> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less
> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight
> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life."
> -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
>
>
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Dana Leet
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 2:33 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> No one in the Blind community complains when prices go up at McDonald’s or
> if prices change on anything else that they have that is available in the
> court “sided world. I think this is utterly ridiculous that people were
> complaining about the people at VoiceStream reader having to make changes
> so that the app can stay around for a while, because costs for everything
> have skyrocketed. I should know trying to buy a house. The values of homes
> are double even triple what they were five years ago. It’s ridiculous right
> now. My thing is why complain. Be happy that we have something that works
> so well. What else is out there that even works half as good as this app
> with reading things on our devices. People are going to mess around and get
> the whole thing lost for all of us which is absolutely not a good idea at
> all. I applaud the people at applause that make voice stream reader,
> because I think it is an amazing app. And I will continue to support them.
> I think it is absolutely ridiculous. How much this is gone on and on and
> on. Nobody complains about paying for Netflix, Hulu, YouTube TV, all these
> other things that whatever have you and just so you guys know this app is
> not only for people that are blind. It’s for people that have other reading
> disabilities as well.  So honestly I think 50 something dollars a year is
> ridiculous. That’s basically a dollar a week I don’t understand why you
> guys are complaining so much. It’s just absolutely ridiculous and it just
> makes me not proud to be blind. Dana.
>
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2024, at 5:20 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t
> go away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I
> do think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have
> pissed off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is
> now.  The question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the
> blind community.
>
> 2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.
>
> I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never
> seen the community so united.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about V

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

Dana, you are 100% correct in my opinion.

I know some are claiming to be upset on the principle of the thing, but reality 
is everything costs more.  Your example of house prices is spot on.  Not to 
mention rent, and all those streaming services which have also increased in 
price and some don’t even do a halfway decent job of passing through audio 
description and yet people don’t complain like this.  We were fortunate to buy 
a house in 2006, when prices had jumped a good chunk but we worked it out and 
now, almost 18 years later, our house is worth 2 and a half times what we paid 
for it and it is almost paid off.

 

It is really too bad that Googlegroups do not offer the mute thread option that 
groups.io does; but again, the owners would have to pay for groups.io which may 
mean they would have to charge for membership, wouldn’t that be fun!  藍

 

 

 

Richard, USA

"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dana Leet
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 2:33 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

No one in the Blind community complains when prices go up at McDonald’s or if 
prices change on anything else that they have that is available in the court 
“sided world. I think this is utterly ridiculous that people were complaining 
about the people at VoiceStream reader having to make changes so that the app 
can stay around for a while, because costs for everything have skyrocketed. I 
should know trying to buy a house. The values of homes are double even triple 
what they were five years ago. It’s ridiculous right now. My thing is why 
complain. Be happy that we have something that works so well. What else is out 
there that even works half as good as this app with reading things on our 
devices. People are going to mess around and get the whole thing lost for all 
of us which is absolutely not a good idea at all. I applaud the people at 
applause that make voice stream reader, because I think it is an amazing app. 
And I will continue to support them.  I think it is absolutely ridiculous. How 
much this is gone on and on and on. Nobody complains about paying for Netflix, 
Hulu, YouTube TV, all these other things that whatever have you and just so you 
guys know this app is not only for people that are blind. It’s for people that 
have other reading disabilities as well.  So honestly I think 50 something 
dollars a year is ridiculous. That’s basically a dollar a week I don’t 
understand why you guys are complaining so much. It’s just absolutely 
ridiculous and it just makes me not proud to be blind. Dana. 





On Mar 31, 2024, at 5:20 PM, Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:



I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t go 
away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I do 
think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have pissed 
off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is now.  The 
question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the blind 
community.

2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.

I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never seen 
the community so united.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hi Arnold,

 

None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could 
do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality 
isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many 
new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just 
implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if 
the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull 
the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was 
undocumented until you installed the update.

 

However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that 
they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my 
reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I 
think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team 
doesn't catch everything.

 

Of course it's also possible I'm s

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Diane Giannetti]

Amen to that one Dana. I couldn’t agree with you more.Sent from Diane's awesome iPhone!On Apr 5, 2024, at 2:10 AM, Dana Leet  wrote:No one in the Blind community complains when prices go up at McDonald’s or if prices change on anything else that they have that is available in the court “sided world. I think this is utterly ridiculous that people were complaining about the people at VoiceStream reader having to make changes so that the app can stay around for a while, because costs for everything have skyrocketed. I should know trying to buy a house. The values of homes are double even triple what they were five years ago. It’s ridiculous right now. My thing is why complain. Be happy that we have something that works so well. What else is out there that even works half as good as this app with reading things on our devices. People are going to mess around and get the whole thing lost for all of us which is absolutely not a good idea at all. I applaud the people at applause that make voice stream reader, because I think it is an amazing app. And I will continue to support them.  I think it is absolutely ridiculous. How much this is gone on and on and on. Nobody complains about paying for Netflix, Hulu, YouTube TV, all these other things that whatever have you and just so you guys know this app is not only for people that are blind. It’s for people that have other reading disabilities as well.  So honestly I think 50 something dollars a year is ridiculous. That’s basically a dollar a week I don’t understand why you guys are complaining so much. It’s just absolutely ridiculous and it just makes me not proud to be blind. Dana. On Mar 31, 2024, at 5:20 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t go away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I do think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have pissed off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is now.  The question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the blind community.2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never seen the community so united. From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hi Arnold, None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update. However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team doesn't catch everything. Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.Grant Hardy  On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt <als5...@gmail.com> wrote:Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go.  Arnold Schmidt  Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hi Arnold, As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them. However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and scanning documents. As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago f

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[leobado1982]

Amen!

 

Cheers,

Leo Bado.

 

I have found both freedom of loneliness and the safety from being understood, 
for those who understand us enslave something in us.

Khalil Gibran.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dana Leet
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:33 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

No one in the Blind community complains when prices go up at McDonald’s or if 
prices change on anything else that they have that is available in the court 
“sided world. I think this is utterly ridiculous that people were complaining 
about the people at VoiceStream reader having to make changes so that the app 
can stay around for a while, because costs for everything have skyrocketed. I 
should know trying to buy a house. The values of homes are double even triple 
what they were five years ago. It’s ridiculous right now. My thing is why 
complain. Be happy that we have something that works so well. What else is out 
there that even works half as good as this app with reading things on our 
devices. People are going to mess around and get the whole thing lost for all 
of us which is absolutely not a good idea at all. I applaud the people at 
applause that make voice stream reader, because I think it is an amazing app. 
And I will continue to support them.  I think it is absolutely ridiculous. How 
much this is gone on and on and on. Nobody complains about paying for Netflix, 
Hulu, YouTube TV, all these other things that whatever have you and just so you 
guys know this app is not only for people that are blind. It’s for people that 
have other reading disabilities as well.  So honestly I think 50 something 
dollars a year is ridiculous. That’s basically a dollar a week I don’t 
understand why you guys are complaining so much. It’s just absolutely 
ridiculous and it just makes me not proud to be blind. Dana. 





On Mar 31, 2024, at 5:20 PM, Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:



I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t go 
away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I do 
think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have pissed 
off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is now.  The 
question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the blind 
community.

2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.

I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never seen 
the community so united.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hi Arnold,

 

None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could 
do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality 
isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many 
new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just 
implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if 
the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull 
the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was 
undocumented until you installed the update.

 

However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that 
they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my 
reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I 
think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team 
doesn't catch everything.

 

Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.



Grant Hardy

 

 

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt mailto:als5...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that 
their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt 
everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue 
the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. 
Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from 
operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, 
to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of 
business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions 
are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go. 

 

Arnold Schmidt 

 

Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3


On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy mailto:grantha...@gmail.com> > wrote:



Hi Arnold,

 

As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a 
subscrip

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

I told them that when I mentioned the different options for creating email lists. But they went with it because several people let them know it was their preferred email list  service. Again, they are doing what it takes to satisfy their customers in my opinion. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ On Apr 4, 2024, at 11:11 PM, Joseph hudson  wrote:
Hi Richard, please advise them about the pricing structure because there is a limit on how many members they can have for free now.On Apr 2, 2024, at 11:53 AM, Richard Turner  wrote:I communicated with Kishin Manglani and a few people had recommended groups.io so they are leaning toward setting up a list on groups.io.I hope they do that sooner rather than later.I prefer that platform because you can mute threads that have gotten off track…   Richard, USA"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009) My web site: https://www.turner42.com From: viphone@googlegroups.com<viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Chris ChaffinSent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 9:48 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hi Dennis, I was actually surprised that they came on Jonathan's podcast, and to me, that says a lot that they did.  Plus, the developer did admit that they handled things in the wrong way and actually apologized for it. I do not think the developers are use to a community that expects engagement and communication like we do.  To me, from the interview, it sounded like the developers were surprised that they did not hear from the community more often requesting features.  For example, they looked into adding the personal voice feature to the app, but since no one really requested it, they concluded that the community did not want it.  But what they should have done is posted something to the community on AppleVis / Social Media asking if anyone was interested in that feature. I know that at least one person has recommended to them that maybe they should look at starting an email list.  That way, they could use it as a way of keeping in direct touch with the community.  I personally think this is a good idea.  It would be a central place where the developers and the community could engage with each other. Like you said, the future will tell us the story. Chris On Apr 2, 2024, at 12:12 PM, Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com> wrote:Chris I tend to agree with you.  Now letsbe clear they need a lesson in communication their communication skills are total shit.  You never ever under any circumstance let the user base define your changes.  You get out in front of it.  I will give them a few months to see if they  do what they say.  I may even subscribe for the year and see if they do what they say.  The interview with Jonathan Mosen they seemed liked they cared.  They did a terrible job of getting front facing and being out in front of issues. From: viphone@googlegroups.com<viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Chris ChaffinSent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 10:36 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hi Grant, I agree that not being able to add more to the VDR library is not leaving the app to function the same way.  But a couple of thoughts. 1, Since the subscription model has already been added and Apple did approve it, I would conclude that Apple will not be rejecting the start of the subscription.  There is now a subscription button in settings that people are using to subscribe. 2, If for some reason Apple stops the subscription from going through as is, then I would say that there would be a good chance that VDR might disappear for good.  Without the funds to properly support the app, the developers will just stop developing it and take it out of the app store. If you think back, there has been several updates over the last year.  Whether the update is adding a new feature, updating it to work with a new iOS release,  or just finding the cause of bugs and fixing them, it all takes time, and time cost money.  I have actually been surprised that there have been so many updates. I am not happy about the subscription, but I use VDR on a daily basis, and I would also not be happy to see it go away.  there are just not any app that does all that I do with the app. Chris On Apr 1, 2024, at 3:36 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Arnold, taking away the ability to add to the library is a fundamental change to the app, removing functionality I paid for. The app will not remain the sam

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Lenron Brown]

 You can’t be serious! I know plenty of people that complain about these other things going up in price as well. I canceled my Netflix at the beginning of last year because the prices kept going up and Netflix was making choices. I was not happy about!Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 5, 2024, at 1:12 AM, llump...@austin.rr.com wrote:I agree. I listened to the Mosen interview with the company representative and I don’t think the representative gave a very satisfactory answer concerning the disabling of the app for paid owners.  From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:38 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or acted upon. I could see it going either way.Grant Hardy  On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com> wrote:I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with disabling existing functionality we paid for.    I have filed an complaint.  I encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.   From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hey Richard, If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term “rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.” In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.” This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out later.  This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t want developers to rent out features that users already bought.Grant Hardy  On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to new content etc. I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary definition of "Guidelines:" a line by which one is guided: such asa: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing a courseb: an indication or outline of policy or conductNow, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: Definition (Entry 1 of 2)1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or actionb: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for observance by its membersc: an accepted procedure, custom, or habitd(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court practice or the action of parties(2): a legal precept or doctrinee: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct2a(1): a usually valid generalization(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the ruleyesterday — The New York Timesb: a standard of judgment :CRITERIONc: a regulating principled: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a certain result3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINIONb: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASUREb: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear designalso : a linear design produced by or as if by such a stripas ​a ​rule: for the most part : GENERALLY   Richard, USA“Grandma always t

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[llumpkin]

I agree. I listened to the Mosen interview with the company representative and 
I don’t think the representative gave a very satisfactory answer concerning the 
disabling of the app for paid owners.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to 
not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or 
acted upon. I could see it going either way.



Grant Hardy

 

 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with 
disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an complaint.  I 
encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream 
and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.  

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hey Richard,

 

If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”

 

In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”

 

This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For 
example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out 
later. 

 

This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not 
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, 
they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something 
else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t 
want developers to rent out features that users already bought.




Grant Hardy

 

 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:

People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc. 

I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary 
definition of "Guidelines:"

*a line by which one is guided: such as

a: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing 
a course

b: an indication or outline of policy or conduct

Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a 
developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a 
guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: 


Definition (Entry 1 of 2)


*   1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action

b: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for 
observance by its members

c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit

d(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court 
practice or the action of parties

(2): a legal precept or doctrine

e: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct

*   2a(1): a usually valid generalization

(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the 
ruleyesterday — The New York Times

b: a standard of judgment :CRITERION

c: a regulating principle

d: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a 
certain result

*   3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINION

b: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control

*   4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for 
measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASURE

b: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design

also : a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip

*   as ​a ​rule

: for the most part : GENERALLY

 

 

 

Richard, USA

“Grandma always told us, “Be

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Rafał Marzec]

I totally agreeThat kind of behaviour deserves for complainThis is disrespectfulAnd sorry, but the argument that this is a business don’t mean that you can disrespect your customers without a serious answerSent from my iPhoneOn 3 Apr 2024, at 8:31 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with disabling existing functionality we paid for.    I have filed an complaint.  I encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hey Richard, If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term “rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.” In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.” This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out later.  This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t want developers to rent out features that users already bought.Grant Hardy  On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to new content etc. I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary definition of "Guidelines:" a line by which one is guided: such asa: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing a courseb: an indication or outline of policy or conductNow, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: Definition (Entry 1 of 2)1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or actionb: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for observance by its membersc: an accepted procedure, custom, or habitd(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court practice or the action of parties(2): a legal precept or doctrinee: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct2a(1): a usually valid generalization(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the ruleyesterday — The New York Timesb: a standard of judgment :CRITERIONc: a regulating principled: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a certain result3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINIONb: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASUREb: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear designalso : a linear design produced by or as if by such a stripas ​a ​rule: for the most part : GENERALLY   Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/-- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/--- You received this mes

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Corey Cook]

i'm starting to think y'all listen to a different podcast than I did because Jonathan did not tell you to contact AppleOn Apr 3, 2024, at 3:52 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number of complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless they release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices they don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or anything else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for. From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or acted upon. I could see it going either way.Grant Hardy  On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com> wrote:I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with disabling existing functionality we paid for.    I have filed an complaint.  I encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.   From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hey Richard, If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term “rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.” In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.” This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out later.  This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t want developers to rent out features that users already bought.Grant Hardy  On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to new content etc. I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary definition of "Guidelines:" a line by which one is guided: such asa: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing a courseb: an indication or outline of policy or conductNow, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: Definition (Entry 1 of 2)1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or actionb: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for observance by its membersc: an accepted procedure, custom, or habitd(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court practice or the action of parties(2): a legal precept or doctrinee: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct2a(1): a usually valid generalization(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the ruleyesterday — The New York Timesb: a standard of judgment :CRITERIONc: a regulating principled: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a certain result3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINIONb: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASUREb: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear designalso : a linear design produced by or as i

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[The Evil Chocolate Cookie]

That’s why it’s up to us to report their patootie’s. The doesn’t deserve applause group clearly thinks they’re above the rules.On Apr 2, 2024, at 1:54 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:

Hey Chris,

I think there’s a bit of confusion here. I don’t have a problem with Voice Dream Reader switching to a subscription model. This doesn’t violate any Apple rules either, and there’s been no pushback on this from me at all. I also do not believe anyone is entitled to any future updates without subscribing.

My concern is not what they’ve already done, but what they’re about to do. What they are going to do come May 1st is actively disable functionality (our perpetual licenses) that we’ve previously purchased under agreed upon terms. That’s problematic because it it isn’t healthy for the App Store ecosystem, in my view. Can you imagine if all the apps you bought could be disabled or taken back? It’s also against Apple’s developer guidelines, if I’m reading them correctly and which Cara echoed as well. Developers are welcome to change pricing and feature availability for new users, but they generally can’t just take back features you already paid for (though they can stop giving you updates). To give a bit of an over-the-top analogy here, this would be like when Microsoft switched to Office 365 as a subscription. There are now features and updates that you can only get if you subscribe, and that’s completely okay. But imagine if in addition to creating the new subscription, they went back and disabled everyone’s licenses who purchased Office 2007, 2010, 2013 and so forth, or made it so you couldn’t create new documents. You’d probably think that was insane. Yet that’s exactly what this developer is doing. That’s the only thing I have serious concerns about.

We’re also talking as if this only applies to one purchase, but this will also affect my purchase of Voice Dream Scanner, which they’ve removed from the App Store and bundled into the main app, as well as all the voices I bought, which I won’t be able to use the same way since I can’t add documents.

This will significantly affect users whose schools or universities bought Voice Dream through a district/corporate account, because it will be disabled right around exam time.

What they should do is keep the current version of the app that we purchased in the store and release a new subscription app alongside it. Any new features that they come up with may well be worth subscribing for, but not the current feature set.

I can’t predict the future but it’s possible this will just slip under Apple’s radar come May 1st and I’d imagine that’s what they’re counting on.

Grant HardyOn Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 7:35 AM Chris Chaffin <chaffin102...@gmail.com> wrote:Hi Grant,I agree that not being able to add more to the VDR library is not leaving the app to function the same way.  But a couple of thoughts.1, Since the subscription model has already been added and Apple did approve it, I would conclude that Apple will not be rejecting the start of the subscription.  There is now a subscription button in settings that people are using to subscribe.2, If for some reason Apple stops the subscription from going through as is, then I would say that there would be a good chance that VDR might disappear for good.  Without the funds to properly support the app, the developers will just stop developing it and take it out of the app store.If you think back, there has been several updates over the last year.  Whether the update is adding a new feature, updating it to work with a new iOS release,  or just finding the cause of bugs and fixing them, it all takes time, and time cost money.  I have actually been surprised that there have been so many updates.I am not happy about the subscription, but I use VDR on a daily basis, and I would also not be happy to see it go away.  there are just not any app that does all that I do with the app.ChrisOn Apr 1, 2024, at 3:36 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Arnold, taking away the ability to add to the library is a fundamental change to the app, removing functionality I paid for. The app will not remain the same.Grant HardyOn Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 12:20 PM Arnold Schmidt <als5...@gmail.com> wrote:I interpreted what they said to mean that everything about the app prior to subscription would continue to work. The only change would be that one no longer could add new content for it to read,  and none of the new features would be added. Arnold Schmidt Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Apr 1, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willfully introducing code that will disable people's previous purchases. I don't think that's app

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[The Evil Chocolate Cookie]

 Outlook, USA
 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Grant Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 


Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If Voice Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t provide us with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously purchased functionality, and
 just released a new app with the subscription, what do you mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There wouldn’t be any additional development, testing or technical support needed for the previously purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they
 would incur. Or do you mean the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from users who previously bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to re-purchase, rent, our licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone if the App Store team told
 them they can’t change the terms for previous customers, I’m not really sure how that would benefit them or anybody else, it sounds like a zero-sum solution where everybody loses. I don’t know exactly how that works either if developers wish to erase something
 from everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely uncommon. I have many discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think one thing this has taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation files locally on your computer like we used to in
 the good ‘ol days. You can use iMazing on Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an older version of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on being able to download the latest versions of apps from the App Store’s purchase
 history given this type of situation.

 






Grant Hardy




 


 


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 4:46 PM Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@outlook.com> wrote:




I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an issue of a sustainable business model
 then Apple’s guidelines can’t keep a developer from just pulling the app altogether. I don’t know what their user community looks like, so I don’t know if this is an issue for them or not. It does seem to be though that supporting current customers with current
 functionality, as well as future customers with new functionality, isn’t going to be free. There will be development, test and maintenance costs.
 
I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t contact Apple and pursue this, in fact I think that’s exactly what people should
 do. I’ll be interested to see what comes of it.
 
--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA




 

From:
viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Grant Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hi Arnold,


 


None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality isn't taken away from
 previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released
 last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update.


 


However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my reading of the guidelines, subscription
 models are all over the place and I think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team doesn't catch everything.


 


Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.




Grant Hardy




 


 


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt <als5...@gmail.com> wrote:



Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt everybody. They can simply
 remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers
 could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go. 

 


Arnold Schmidt 


 

Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3



On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:










Hi Arnold,


 


As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Lyne]

t; seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of 
>>> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>>> 
>>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period 
>>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after 
>>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of 
>>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What 
>>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What 
>>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>> 
>>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to 
>>> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this 
>>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the 
>>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>>> 
>>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>>> 
>>> Cara
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you 
>>>> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you 
>>>> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy 
>>>> with purchasing a game. 
>>>> 
>>>> Richard, USA
>>>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God 
>>>> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell 
>>>> to get it.”
>>>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>>>>  
>>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hey Richard,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are 
>>>>> tricky.
>>>>> 
>>>>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business 
>>>>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users 
>>>>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already 
>>>>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you 
>>>>> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a 
>>>>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept 
>>>>> the functionality they previously paid for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any 
>>>>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be 
>>>>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the 
>>>>> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or 
>>>>> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app 
>>>>> that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. 
>>>>> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this 
>>>>> is in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app 
>>>>> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not 
>>>>> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working 
>>>>> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that 
>>>>> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased 
>>>>> license.
>>>>> 
>>>>> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new 
>>>>> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous 
>>>>> purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on 
>>>

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dana Leet]

No one in the Blind community complains when prices go up at McDonald’s or if prices change on anything else that they have that is available in the court “sided world. I think this is utterly ridiculous that people were complaining about the people at VoiceStream reader having to make changes so that the app can stay around for a while, because costs for everything have skyrocketed. I should know trying to buy a house. The values of homes are double even triple what they were five years ago. It’s ridiculous right now. My thing is why complain. Be happy that we have something that works so well. What else is out there that even works half as good as this app with reading things on our devices. People are going to mess around and get the whole thing lost for all of us which is absolutely not a good idea at all. I applaud the people at applause that make voice stream reader, because I think it is an amazing app. And I will continue to support them.  I think it is absolutely ridiculous. How much this is gone on and on and on. Nobody complains about paying for Netflix, Hulu, YouTube TV, all these other things that whatever have you and just so you guys know this app is not only for people that are blind. It’s for people that have other reading disabilities as well.  So honestly I think 50 something dollars a year is ridiculous. That’s basically a dollar a week I don’t understand why you guys are complaining so much. It’s just absolutely ridiculous and it just makes me not proud to be blind. Dana. On Mar 31, 2024, at 5:20 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t go away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I do think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have pissed off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is now.  The question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the blind community.2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never seen the community so united. From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant HardySent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hi Arnold, None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update. However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team doesn't catch everything. Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.Grant Hardy  On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt <als5...@gmail.com> wrote:Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go.  Arnold Schmidt  Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hi Arnold, As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them. However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and scanning documents. As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not update the previous app anymore, and we co

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Alex Stone]

ongs I'd bought outright, and even
>> if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having
>> all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date.
>>
>>
>>
>> Grant Hardy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Richard and All,
>>>
>>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any
>>> opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no
>>> horse in this race. :)
>>>
>>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is
>>> saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks
>>> to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased
>>> functionality is being removed.
>>>
>>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not
>>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to
>>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>>>
>>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want
>>> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>>>
>>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more
>>> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around
>>> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need
>>> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be
>>> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of
>>> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>>>
>>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period
>>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after
>>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of
>>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What
>>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What
>>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>>
>>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem
>>> to address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this
>>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the
>>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>>>
>>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>>>
>>> Cara
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st,
>>> you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby,
>>> you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy
>>> with purchasing a game.
>>>
>>> Richard, USA
>>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God
>>> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to
>>> get it.”
>>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>>>
>>>
>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Hey Richard,
>>>
>>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are
>>> tricky.
>>>
>>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>>>
>>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business
>>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users
>>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already
>>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you
>>> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a
>>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the
>>> functionality they previously paid for.
>>>
>>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any
>>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be
>>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the
>>> quoted Apple Developer 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Alex Stone]

disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side
>>> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and
>>> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
>>>
>>> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where
>>> money is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years,
>>> it's possible that a high school or university student is still in the
>>> system with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be
>>> disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice.
>>> I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO
>>> user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this
>>> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But
>>> more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the
>>> protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I
>>> switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even
>>> if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having
>>> all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Grant Hardy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Richard and All,
>>>>
>>>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any
>>>> opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no
>>>> horse in this race. :)
>>>>
>>>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is
>>>> saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks
>>>> to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased
>>>> functionality is being removed.
>>>>
>>>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not
>>>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to
>>>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>>>>
>>>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I
>>>> want and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>>>>
>>>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more
>>>> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around
>>>> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need
>>>> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be
>>>> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of
>>>> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period
>>>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after
>>>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of
>>>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What
>>>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What
>>>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>>>
>>>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem
>>>> to address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this
>>>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the
>>>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>>>>
>>>> Cara
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner <
>>>> richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st,
>>>> you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby,
>>>> you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy
>>>> with purchasing a game.
>>>>
>>>> Richard, USA
>>>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God
>>>> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell t

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[leobado1982]

I believe that for picky consumers a monthly subscription is more suitable 
because it gives you the opportunity to assess app’s performance at regular 
intervals. I’m waiting for it!

 

Cheers,

Leo Bado.

 

I have found both freedom of loneliness and the safety from being understood, 
for those who understand us enslave something in us.

Khalil Gibran.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dennis 
Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Richard I do agree with you  I do think they truly care.  There messaging and 
communication is absolutely terrible and that is something they need to work 
on.  Being honest transparent and communicating with us to see what we want and 
need in the app will go a long way.  But again Richard I do agree they care.  
I’m considering the monthly option.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 9:01 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing 
Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.

It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear 
that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to 
provide a quality product and adding new features.

 

The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double 
tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing 
Changes for One-Time Purchasers.

As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day 
trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you 
double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to 
subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know 
what you get if you are a new subscriber.

 

But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within 
the app store.

The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems 
to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group 
gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.

I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through 
the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30 percent and the 
developer gets the rest.

 

IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store.

 

They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future.

 

HTH,

 

Richard, USA

"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and 
get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I 
do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Michael Irons
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with voice 
dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase prices or 
make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do need to do or 
have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t make any money for 
anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d all be better served 
if we could look for something that does the same things as voice dream reader 
and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people 
that work with voice dream reader are going to do whatever they’re going to do 
and they’re not willing to, or able to change their minds.  Just trying to find 
an alternative would be a lot more productive for everybody than just talking 
about not being able to use voice dream reader. I’m just saying all this 
whatever it’s worth. For all I know it may not be worth anything not even a 
plug penny or a plug nickel. 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel mailto:siegh...@l

FW: From Jonathan Mosen: I wish Voice Dream Reader a bright future, but they have breached Apple’s Guidelines. Apple must protect consumers with swift action – Mosen At Large

[janet gross]

From: tech...@groups.io  On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 3:52 AM
To: List 
Subject: [Tech-VI] From Jonathan Mosen: I wish Voice Dream Reader a bright 
future, but they have breached Apple’s Guidelines. Apple must protect consumers 
with swift action – Mosen At Large


https://mosen.org/voicedream/
I wish Voice Dream Reader a bright future, but they have breached Apple’s 
Guidelines. Apple must protect consumers with swift action
Jonathan Mosen <https://mosen.org/author/jmosen/> Posted on 
04/04/2024<https://mosen.org/voicedream/> Posted in 
commentary<https://mosen.org/category/commentary/>, 
iOS<https://mosen.org/category/ios/>
Key points

  *   Voice Dream Reader was bought by new owners last year.
  *   They moved to a subscription model for new customers shortly after the 
acquisition.
  *   There has been robust debate about whether the pricing represents value 
for money, but new features and greater stability are promised.
  *   Unless existing customers pay, they will lose critical functions of the 
app on 1 May.
  *   This violates Apple’s App Review Guidelines.
  *   I encourage everyone to contact Voice Dream Support and Apple to ensure 
that the Guidelines are enforced.

Background

If you use an iPhone and you’re blind, you’ve probably heard of Voice Dream 
Reader.<https://voicedream.com/> It was the brainchild of a software developer 
named Winston Chen, and released in around 2012.

Winston was an example of indie mobile app developers who get it right. He 
engaged with his users, and seemed to understand that many of us in the blind 
community have certain cultural expectations around the technology we use.

It’s become a bit of a cliché, but it’s true. Nothing about us without us is 
important to many of us. We want to be listened to. We want to have a hand in 
the future of the product. If a developer is willing to engage with us 
meaningfully, great things can happen.

Winston issued frequent updates. The app’s feature set grew in response to the 
feedback he got from people like us. As a result of the exceptional app and 
customer service, by 2013 he was making enough money from what began as a side 
project that he quit his job and worked on Voice Dream full-time.

He developed some other products, some of which still exist, but Reader was 
always the flagship.

Voice Dream Reader caters to several market segments. The app benefits those 
with dyslexia and other print impairments.

There are also people who are not disabled who just want to be read to.

While there are other reader apps, I have not found a single app that offers 
the breadth of features that are in Voice Dream Reader. It would take at least 
two apps to replace it. For me, having one place in which all content I want to 
read can be found makes things simple. There are also some unique navigation 
methods that make moving around a document straightforward, and it works well 
with Braille displays.

Changing of the guard

Last year, Winston Chen sold the app he created to a company called Applause 
Group. I was pleased to speak with Kishin Manglani, one of the Founders of 
Applause Group, for a recent episode of the Living Blindfully 
Podcast.<https://livingblindfully.com/275> When I asked him to explain what 
Applause Group does, he said,

“Applause Group operates mobile apps, and we typically work with independent 
developers who want to hand over their reins after working on the app for many 
years, oftentimes for over a decade. You know, these apps often take a lot of 
time, effort, and passion to build and maintain. And sometimes, the owners want 
to stop working on them for personal reasons, or to go work on something else, 
and they want to pass the torch to someone else who can build and maintain the 
app. We continue where they left off and build, maintain, and support the apps 
for the communities that they serve.”

Unfortunately, the relationship between Voice Dream Reader’s new owners and its 
engaged user base got off to a rocky start. Members of the online blind 
community did not find out about the sale of Voice Dream Reader last year from 
either the buyer or the seller. Instead, they found out because an indie 
developer who offers a product that competes in some ways with Voice Dream 
Reader discovered a new subscription option in a just-released build of Voice 
Dream Reader. He, not anyone associated with the app, broke the news to the 
blind community that subscriptions were on the way.

When a developer moves from a one-off purchase model to a subscription-based 
model, it is always controversial, even if said company makes great efforts to 
communicate it thoroughly. When you add an unpopular change, the departure of a 
popular indie developer, and nonexistent communication together, those 
ingredients add up to an inevitable firestorm. In the absence of information to 
the contrary, existing customers were concerned that they were a

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

I hope so like I’ve stated several times I have no issue paying for new 
functionality I and others have issue with them taking away existing 
functionality
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 6:49 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Brilliant—thanks Feliciano, Richard, Dennis and everyone else who replied. I 
did "report a problem" several days ago in the App Store but I think Apple just 
uses that for internal purposes. I'll file feedback through the developer site 
as well. Hopefully we can put this on Apple's radar.



Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 3:34 PM Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:
What Jonathan says is to go to developer.apple.com/contact 
<http://developer.apple.com/contact>  “if you can manage it.”
Then, you have to sign in with your Apple ID, enter a verification code, and 
then if you try just going to contact, you get nowhere.  At least I got nowhere.
However, if you click on the Feedback Assistant, you get to the page where you 
can submit feedback.
https://feedbackassistant.apple.com/
 
You may have to still sign in and deal with the verification code, but you will 
be able to find a compose new feedback link or search for previous feedback you 
wish to add to I believe.
 
HTH,
 
 
 
Richard, USA
"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
 
My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Please do one better and follow the steps outlined by Jonathan Mosen.  This was 
posted to his mastodon feed.  It goes to the proper team.
https://cdn.tweesecake.social/cache/media_attachments/files/112/208/510/831/262/201/original/d9ce03ec2b623f64.mp3
 
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Feliciano Godoy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 5:49 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hi all, 
If anyone wants to bring up these concerns, I believe that it is better done 
through Apple then on these list. It's fairly easy to do, on the App Store, 
search the app and towards the bottom there's a report button. Sign into your 
Apple account and select one of the following options that are given there and 
on the text box, you can write your concerns
 
Feliciano 
For tech tips and updates: 
LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v <http://www.facebook.com/theblindman12v> 
Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v <http://www.twitter.com/theblindman12v> 
Follow www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v <http://www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v> 
those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who 
do. -Steve Jobs 
 
On Apr 3, 2024, at 1:42 PM, Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
 
Lets be clear I agree it needs money to continue development.  I don’t say it 
doesn’t but you can’t take away existing functionality I paid for away.  If it 
were a free app then we wouldn’t have a leg to stand on but it wasn’t.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 4:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
I absolutely agree, I follow Jonathan's fantastic podcast and advocacy work and 
I'm really glad to see him adding his voice about this issue. I think this 
developer will have a tough fight on their hands. I don’t feel like my opinion 
is such an outlier now lol.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:52 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected 
voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number of 
complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless they 
release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices they 
don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or anything 
else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@google

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Brilliant—thanks Feliciano, Richard, Dennis and everyone else who replied.
I did "report a problem" several days ago in the App Store but I think
Apple just uses that for internal purposes. I'll file feedback through the
developer site as well. Hopefully we can put this on Apple's radar.


Grant Hardy


On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 3:34 PM Richard Turner 
wrote:

> What Jonathan says is to go to developer.apple.com/contact “if you can
> manage it.”
>
> Then, you have to sign in with your Apple ID, enter a verification code,
> and then if you try just going to contact, you get nowhere.  At least I got
> nowhere.
>
> However, if you click on the Feedback Assistant, you get to the page where
> you can submit feedback.
>
> https://feedbackassistant.apple.com/
>
>
>
> You may have to still sign in and deal with the verification code, but you
> will be able to find a compose new feedback link or search for previous
> feedback you wish to add to I believe.
>
>
>
> HTH,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard, USA
>
> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less
> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight
> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life."
> -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
>
>
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Dennis Long
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:10 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>
> *Subject:* RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Please do one better and follow the steps outlined by Jonathan Mosen.
> This was posted to his mastodon feed.  It goes to the proper team.
>
>
> https://cdn.tweesecake.social/cache/media_attachments/files/112/208/510/831/262/201/original/d9ce03ec2b623f64.mp3
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Feliciano Godoy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 5:49 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> If anyone wants to bring up these concerns, I believe that it is better
> done through Apple then on these list. It's fairly easy to do, on the App
> Store, search the app and towards the bottom there's a report button. Sign
> into your Apple account and select one of the following options that are
> given there and on the text box, you can write your concerns
>
>
>
> Feliciano
>
> For tech tips and updates:
>
> LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v
>
> Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v
>
> Follow www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v
>
> those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones
> who do. -Steve Jobs
>
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2024, at 1:42 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Lets be clear I agree it needs money to continue development.  I don’t
> say it doesn’t but you can’t take away existing functionality I paid for
> away.  If it were a free app then we wouldn’t have a leg to stand on but it
> wasn’t.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 4:12 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> I absolutely agree, I follow Jonathan's fantastic podcast and advocacy
> work and I'm really glad to see him adding his voice about this issue. I
> think this developer will have a tough fight on their hands. I don’t feel
> like my opinion is such an outlier now lol.
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:52 PM Dennis Long  wrote:
>
> I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected
> voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number
> of complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless
> they release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices
> they don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or
> anything else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly
> state to not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be
> noticed or acted upon. I could see it going either way.
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

What Jonathan says is to go to developer.apple.com/contact “if you can manage 
it.”

Then, you have to sign in with your Apple ID, enter a verification code, and 
then if you try just going to contact, you get nowhere.  At least I got nowhere.

However, if you click on the Feedback Assistant, you get to the page where you 
can submit feedback.

https://feedbackassistant.apple.com/

 

You may have to still sign in and deal with the verification code, but you will 
be able to find a compose new feedback link or search for previous feedback you 
wish to add to I believe.

 

HTH,

 

 

 

Richard, USA

"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dennis 
Long
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Please do one better and follow the steps outlined by Jonathan Mosen.  This was 
posted to his mastodon feed.  It goes to the proper team.

https://cdn.tweesecake.social/cache/media_attachments/files/112/208/510/831/262/201/original/d9ce03ec2b623f64.mp3

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Feliciano Godoy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 5:49 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hi all, 

If anyone wants to bring up these concerns, I believe that it is better done 
through Apple then on these list. It's fairly easy to do, on the App Store, 
search the app and towards the bottom there's a report button. Sign into your 
Apple account and select one of the following options that are given there and 
on the text box, you can write your concerns

 

Feliciano 

For tech tips and updates: 

LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v <http://www.facebook.com/theblindman12v> 

Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v <http://www.twitter.com/theblindman12v> 

Follow www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v <http://www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v> 

those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who 
do. -Steve Jobs 





On Apr 3, 2024, at 1:42 PM, Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Lets be clear I agree it needs money to continue development.  I don’t say it 
doesn’t but you can’t take away existing functionality I paid for away.  If it 
were a free app then we wouldn’t have a leg to stand on but it wasn’t.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 4:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

I absolutely agree, I follow Jonathan's fantastic podcast and advocacy work and 
I'm really glad to see him adding his voice about this issue. I think this 
developer will have a tough fight on their hands. I don’t feel like my opinion 
is such an outlier now lol.



Grant Hardy

 

 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:52 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected 
voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number of 
complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless they 
release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices they 
don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or anything 
else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to 
not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or 
acted upon. I could see it going either way.



Grant Hardy

 

 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with 
disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an complaint.  I 
encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream 
and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

Please do one better and follow the steps outlined by Jonathan Mosen.  This was 
posted to his mastodon feed.  It goes to the proper team.
https://cdn.tweesecake.social/cache/media_attachments/files/112/208/510/831/262/201/original/d9ce03ec2b623f64.mp3
 
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Feliciano Godoy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 5:49 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hi all, 
If anyone wants to bring up these concerns, I believe that it is better done 
through Apple then on these list. It's fairly easy to do, on the App Store, 
search the app and towards the bottom there's a report button. Sign into your 
Apple account and select one of the following options that are given there and 
on the text box, you can write your concerns
 
Feliciano 
For tech tips and updates: 
LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v <http://www.facebook.com/theblindman12v> 
Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v <http://www.twitter.com/theblindman12v> 
Follow www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v <http://www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v> 
those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who 
do. -Steve Jobs 



On Apr 3, 2024, at 1:42 PM, Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
 
Lets be clear I agree it needs money to continue development.  I don’t say it 
doesn’t but you can’t take away existing functionality I paid for away.  If it 
were a free app then we wouldn’t have a leg to stand on but it wasn’t.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 4:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
I absolutely agree, I follow Jonathan's fantastic podcast and advocacy work and 
I'm really glad to see him adding his voice about this issue. I think this 
developer will have a tough fight on their hands. I don’t feel like my opinion 
is such an outlier now lol.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:52 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected 
voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number of 
complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless they 
release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices they 
don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or anything 
else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to 
not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or 
acted upon. I could see it going either way.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with 
disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an complaint.  I 
encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream 
and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.  
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey Richard,
 
If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”
 
In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”
 
This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Feliciano Godoy]

Hi all,
If anyone wants to bring up these concerns, I believe that it is better done 
through Apple then on these list. It's fairly easy to do, on the App Store, 
search the app and towards the bottom there's a report button. Sign into your 
Apple account and select one of the following options that are given there and 
on the text box, you can write your concerns

Feliciano
For tech tips and updates:
LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v
Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v
Follow www.instagram/TheBlindMan12v
those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who 
do. -Steve Jobs

On Apr 3, 2024, at 1:42 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:


Lets be clear I agree it needs money to continue development.  I don’t say it 
doesn’t but you can’t take away existing functionality I paid for away.  If it 
were a free app then we wouldn’t have a leg to stand on but it wasn’t.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 4:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

I absolutely agree, I follow Jonathan's fantastic podcast and advocacy work and 
I'm really glad to see him adding his voice about this issue. I think this 
developer will have a tough fight on their hands. I don’t feel like my opinion 
is such an outlier now lol.

Grant Hardy


On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:52 PM Dennis Long 
mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected 
voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number of 
complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless they 
release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices they 
don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or anything 
else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to 
not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or 
acted upon. I could see it going either way.

Grant Hardy


On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long 
mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with 
disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an complaint.  I 
encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream 
and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader


Hey Richard,



If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”



In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”



This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For 
example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out 
later.



This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not 
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, 
they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something 
else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t 
want developers to rent out features that users already bought.

Grant Hardy


On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner 
mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net>> wrote:
People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc.
I deci

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

Lets be clear I agree it needs money to continue development.  I don’t say it 
doesn’t but you can’t take away existing functionality I paid for away.  If it 
were a free app then we wouldn’t have a leg to stand on but it wasn’t.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 4:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
I absolutely agree, I follow Jonathan's fantastic podcast and advocacy work and 
I'm really glad to see him adding his voice about this issue. I think this 
developer will have a tough fight on their hands. I don’t feel like my opinion 
is such an outlier now lol.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:52 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected 
voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number of 
complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless they 
release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices they 
don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or anything 
else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to 
not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or 
acted upon. I could see it going either way.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with 
disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an complaint.  I 
encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream 
and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.  
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey Richard,
 
If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”
 
In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”
 
This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For 
example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out 
later. 
 
This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not 
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, 
they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something 
else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t 
want developers to rent out features that users already bought.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:
People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc. 
I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary 
definition of "Guidelines:"
*a line by which one is guided: such as
a: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing 
a course
b: an indication or outline of policy or conduct
Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a 
developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a 
guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: 

Definition (Entry 1 of 2)

*   1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action
b: the laws or regulations presc

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

I absolutely agree, I follow Jonathan's fantastic podcast and advocacy work
and I'm really glad to see him adding his voice about this issue. I think
this developer will have a tough fight on their hands. I don’t feel like my
opinion is such an outlier now lol.

Grant Hardy


On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:52 PM Dennis Long  wrote:

> I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected
> voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a
> number of complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble
> unless they release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure
> new voices they don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle
> support or anything else they might add.  They do have to give us what we
> paid for.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly
> state to not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be
> noticed or acted upon. I could see it going either way.
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long  wrote:
>
> I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem
> with disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an
> complaint.  I encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also
> contacted Voicedream and pointed out where I believe they are in violation
> of the guidelines.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hey Richard,
>
>
>
> If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’
> is a bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at
> https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the
> term “rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope
> these guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that
> approvals and rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a
> living document; new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules
> at any time.”
>
>
>
> In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are
> changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you
> should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already
> paid for.”
>
>
>
> This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to
> charge for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users
> already made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be
> enforced consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common
> sense to me. For example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect
> you to rent it out later.
>
>
>
> This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may
> not turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not
> notice, they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed,
> something else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that
> Apple doesn’t want developers to rent out features that users already
> bought.
>
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner 
> wrote:
>
> People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning
> Voice Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's
> access to new content etc.
>
> I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary
> definition of "Guidelines:"
>
>-  a line by which one is guided: such as
>
> *a**:* a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit
> retracing a course
>
> *b**:* an indication or outline of policy or conduct
>
> Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not
> rules, a developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's
> interpretation of a guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster
> definition of rules:
> Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
>
>- *1**a**:* a prescribed guide for conduct or action
>
> *b**:* the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious
> order for observance by its members
>
> *c**:* an accepted procedure, custom, or habit
>
> *d**(1)**:* a usually written order or direction made by a court
> regulating court practice or the action 

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

I think we have a fighting.  Jonathan Mosen is a well known and respected 
voice.  When he mobilizes the community look out.  Apple will get a number of 
complaints just because of that I suspect they will be in trouble unless they 
release a old version with the current functionality.  Sure new voices they 
don’t have to include nor do they have to include kindle support or anything 
else they might add.  They do have to give us what we paid for.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly state to 
not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be noticed or 
acted upon. I could see it going either way.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long mailto:dennisl1...@gmail.com> > wrote:
I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with 
disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an complaint.  I 
encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream 
and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.  
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey Richard,
 
If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”
 
In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”
 
This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For 
example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out 
later. 
 
This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not 
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, 
they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something 
else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t 
want developers to rent out features that users already bought.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:
People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc. 
I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary 
definition of "Guidelines:"
*a line by which one is guided: such as
a: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing 
a course
b: an indication or outline of policy or conduct
Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a 
developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a 
guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: 

Definition (Entry 1 of 2)

*   1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action
b: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for 
observance by its members
c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit
d(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court 
practice or the action of parties
(2): a legal precept or doctrine
e: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct
*   2a(1): a usually valid generalization
(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the 
ruleyesterday — The New York Times
b: a standard of judgment :CRITERION
c: a regulating principle
d: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a 
certain result
*   3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINION
b: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control
*   4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for 
measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASURE
b: a metal strip with a type-hi

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

They're absolutely violating the guidelines, the guidelines explicitly
state to not do what they're doing. The only question is whether it will be
noticed or acted upon. I could see it going either way.

Grant Hardy


On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 12:31 PM Dennis Long  wrote:

> I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem
> with disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an
> complaint.  I encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also
> contacted Voicedream and pointed out where I believe they are in violation
> of the guidelines.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hey Richard,
>
>
>
> If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’
> is a bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at
> https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the
> term “rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope
> these guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that
> approvals and rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a
> living document; new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules
> at any time.”
>
>
>
> In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are
> changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you
> should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already
> paid for.”
>
>
>
> This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to
> charge for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users
> already made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be
> enforced consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common
> sense to me. For example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect
> you to rent it out later.
>
>
>
> This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may
> not turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not
> notice, they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed,
> something else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that
> Apple doesn’t want developers to rent out features that users already
> bought.
>
>
>
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner 
> wrote:
>
> People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning
> Voice Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's
> access to new content etc.
>
> I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary
> definition of "Guidelines:"
>
>-  a line by which one is guided: such as
>
> *a**:* a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit
> retracing a course
>
> *b**:* an indication or outline of policy or conduct
>
> Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not
> rules, a developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's
> interpretation of a guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster
> definition of rules:
> Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
>
>- *1**a**:* a prescribed guide for conduct or action
>
> *b**:* the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious
> order for observance by its members
>
> *c**:* an accepted procedure, custom, or habit
>
> *d**(1)**:* a usually written order or direction made by a court
> regulating court practice or the action of parties
>
> *(2)**:* a legal precept or doctrine
>
> *e**:* a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct
>
>- *2**a**(1)**:* a usually valid generalization
>
> *(2)**:* a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode *//*fair weather
> was the *rule*yesterday — *The New York Times*
>
> *b**:* a standard of judgment *:*CRITERION
>
> *c**:* a regulating principle
>
> *d**:* a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and
> obtaining a certain result
>
>- *3**a**:* the exercise of authority or control *:* DOMINION
>
> *b**:* a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises
> control
>
>- *4**a**:* a strip of material marked off in units used especially
>for measuring *:* RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASURE
>
> *b**:* a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design
>
> *also* *:* a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip
>
>- *as ​a ​rule*
>
> *:* for the most part *:* GENERALLY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

I don’t have a problem with new features being paid.  I do have a problem with 
disabling existing functionality we paid for.I have filed an complaint.  I 
encourage all to follow Jonathan’s instructions.  I also contacted Voicedream 
and pointed out where I believe they are in violation of the guidelines.  
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey Richard,
 
If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”
 
In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”
 
This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For 
example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out 
later. 
 
This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not 
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, 
they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something 
else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t 
want developers to rent out features that users already bought.




Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:
People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc. 
I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary 
definition of "Guidelines:"
*a line by which one is guided: such as
a: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing 
a course
b: an indication or outline of policy or conduct
Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a 
developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a 
guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: 

Definition (Entry 1 of 2)

*   1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action
b: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for 
observance by its members
c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit
d(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court 
practice or the action of parties
(2): a legal precept or doctrine
e: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct
*   2a(1): a usually valid generalization
(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the 
ruleyesterday — The New York Times
b: a standard of judgment :CRITERION
c: a regulating principle
d: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a 
certain result
*   3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINION
b: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control
*   4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for 
measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASURE
b: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design
also : a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip
*   as ​a ​rule
: for the most part : GENERALLY
 
 
 
Richard, USA
“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”
-- Cedrick Bridgeforth
 
My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> 
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
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You received this message because you are subscribed to

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

For what it is worth Jonathan Mosen also thinks they are violating the 
guidelines.  Not for charging new features but for removing what we paid for.  
Hear below.  This was posted to his mastodon account.
https://cdn.tweesecake.social/cache/media_attachments/files/112/208/510/831/262/201/original/d9ce03ec2b623f64.mp3
 
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 3:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey Richard,
 
If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”
 
In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”
 
This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For 
example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out 
later. 
 
This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not 
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, 
they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something 
else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t 
want developers to rent out features that users already bought.




Grant Hardy
 
 
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:
People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc. 
I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary 
definition of "Guidelines:"
*a line by which one is guided: such as
a: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing 
a course
b: an indication or outline of policy or conduct
Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a 
developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a 
guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: 

Definition (Entry 1 of 2)

*   1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action
b: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for 
observance by its members
c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit
d(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court 
practice or the action of parties
(2): a legal precept or doctrine
e: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct
*   2a(1): a usually valid generalization
(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the 
ruleyesterday — The New York Times
b: a standard of judgment :CRITERION
c: a regulating principle
d: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a 
certain result
*   3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINION
b: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control
*   4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for 
measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASURE
b: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design
also : a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip
*   as ​a ​rule
: for the most part : GENERALLY
 
 
 
Richard, USA
“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”
-- Cedrick Bridgeforth
 
My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> 
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are sub

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

Grant,

I acknowledge your right to interpret it that way.

I don’t see it like that, so perhaps we can simply agree to disagree.  I don’t 
plan to comment further on this.

 

 

 

Richard, USA

"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 12:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hey Richard,

 

If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’ is a 
bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the term 
“rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope these 
guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that approvals and 
rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a living document; new 
apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time.”

 

In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are changing 
your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take 
away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for.”

 

This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to charge 
for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users already 
made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be enforced 
consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common sense to me. For 
example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect you to rent it out 
later. 

 

This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not 
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not notice, 
they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed, something 
else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that Apple doesn’t 
want developers to rent out features that users already bought.






Grant Hardy

 

 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:

People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc. 

I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary 
definition of "Guidelines:"

*a line by which one is guided: such as

a: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing 
a course

b: an indication or outline of policy or conduct

Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a 
developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a 
guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: 


Definition (Entry 1 of 2)


*   1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action

b: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for 
observance by its members

c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit

d(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court 
practice or the action of parties

(2): a legal precept or doctrine

e: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct

*   2a(1): a usually valid generalization

(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the 
ruleyesterday — The New York Times

b: a standard of judgment :CRITERION

c: a regulating principle

d: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a 
certain result

*   3a: the exercise of authority or control : DOMINION

b: a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control

*   4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for 
measuring : RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASURE

b: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design

also : a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip

*   as ​a ​rule

: for the most part : GENERALLY

 

 

 

Richard, USA

“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”

-- Cedrick Bridgeforth

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com/

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
mk...@ucla.ed

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Richard,


If I may, I do feel like the distinction between ‘rules’ and ‘guidelines’
is a bit pedantic. The App Store review guidelines at
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ do also use the
term “rule” frequently throughout the text. For example, they say, “We hope
these guidelines help you sail through the review process, and that
approvals and rejections remain consistent across the board. This is a
living document; new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules
at any time.”


In this case the guideline I referenced, 3.1.2, states: “If you are
changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you
should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already
paid for.”


This is pretty clear in my view, it’s essentially saying, don’t try to
charge for something a user already bought, don’t take away purchases users
already made. And that Apple page says they hope the guidelines will be
enforced consistently across the board. The guideline also makes common
sense to me. For example, I wouldn’t sell you a music album, then expect
you to rent it out later.


This looks pretty clear-cut to me. You are absolutely right that it may not
turn out to be an issue for this developer. The Apple reviewers may not
notice, they might notice but let it slide, the guidelines may be changed,
something else might happen. However at this point, it’s pretty clear that
Apple doesn’t want developers to rent out features that users already
bought.


Grant Hardy


On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM Richard Turner 
wrote:

> People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning
> Voice Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's
> access to new content etc.
>
> I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary
> definition of "Guidelines:"
>
>-  a line by which one is guided: such as
>
> *a**:* a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit
> retracing a course
>
> *b**:* an indication or outline of policy or conduct
>
> Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not
> rules, a developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's
> interpretation of a guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster
> definition of rules:
> Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
>
>- *1**a**:* a prescribed guide for conduct or action
>
> *b**:* the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious
> order for observance by its members
>
> *c**:* an accepted procedure, custom, or habit
>
> *d**(1)**:* a usually written order or direction made by a court
> regulating court practice or the action of parties
>
> *(2)**:* a legal precept or doctrine
>
> *e**:* a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct
>
>- *2**a**(1)**:* a usually valid generalization
>
> *(2)**:* a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode *//*fair weather
> was the *rule*yesterday — *The New York Times*
>
> *b**:* a standard of judgment *:*CRITERION
>
> *c**:* a regulating principle
>
> *d**:* a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and
> obtaining a certain result
>
>- *3**a**:* the exercise of authority or control *:* DOMINION
>
> *b**:* a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises
> control
>
>- *4**a**:* a strip of material marked off in units used especially
>for measuring *:* RULER sense 3, TAPE MEASURE
>
> *b**:* a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design
>
> *also* *:* a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip
>
>- *as ​a ​rule*
>
> *:* for the most part *:* GENERALLY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard, USA
>
> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God
> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to
> get it.”
>
> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>
>
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at:
> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, se

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

People have been quoting an Apple guideline for Developers concerning Voice 
Dream Reader changing to a subscription model and changing people's access to 
new content etc. 

I decided to look at definitions. Here is the Marium Webster dictionary 
definition of "Guidelines:"

*a line by which one is   guided: such as

a: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing 
a course

b: an indication or outline of policy or conduct

Now, a rule is quite different and since Apple uses guidelines and not rules, a 
developer is not required to strictly adhere to anyone's interpretation of a 
guideline in my opinion. Here is the Marium Webster definition of rules: 


Definition (Entry 1 of 2)


*   1a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action

b: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for 
observance by its members

c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit

d(1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court 
practice or the action of parties

(2): a legal precept or doctrine

e: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct

*   2a(1): a usually valid generalization

(2): a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode //fair weather was the 
ruleyesterday — The New York Times

b: a standard of judgment :  CRITERION

c: a regulating principle

d: a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a 
certain result

*   3a: the exercise of authority or control :   
DOMINION

b: a period during which a specified   ruler or 
government exercises control

*   4a: a strip of material marked off in units used especially for 
measuring :   RULER sense 3,  
 TAPE MEASURE

b: a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design

also : a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip

*   as ​a ​rule

: for the most part :   GENERALLY

 

 

 

Richard, USA

“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”

-- Cedrick Bridgeforth

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com/

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Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Ah, brilliant! I stand corrected. I couldn't find it in my purchase history
because the name changed.

Grant Hardy


On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:06 AM Richard Turner 
wrote:

> One point to clarify.
>
> Winston still owns Voice Dream Scanner, now named VDScan and Voice Dream
> Writer, now named VDWrite.
>
> Both still work perfectly fine.
>
> Winston’s new company is called Opusnoma LLC.
>
> VDScan: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vdscan/id1446737725
>
>
>
> VDWrite: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vdwrite/id920583100
>
>
>
> HTH,
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard, USA
>
> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less
> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight
> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life."
> -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
>
>
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 2, 2024 10:54 AM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hey Chris,
>
>
>
> I think there’s a bit of confusion here. I don’t have a problem with Voice
> Dream Reader switching to a subscription model. This doesn’t violate any
> Apple rules either, and there’s been no pushback on this from me at all. I
> also do not believe anyone is entitled to any future updates without
> subscribing.
>
>
>
> My concern is not what they’ve already done, but what they’re about to do.
> What they are going to do come May 1st is actively disable functionality
> (our perpetual licenses) that we’ve previously purchased under agreed upon
> terms. That’s problematic because it it isn’t healthy for the App Store
> ecosystem, in my view. Can you imagine if all the apps you bought could be
> disabled or taken back? It’s also against Apple’s developer guidelines, if
> I’m reading them correctly and which Cara echoed as well. Developers are
> welcome to change pricing and feature availability for new users, but they
> generally can’t just take back features you already paid for (though they
> can stop giving you updates). To give a bit of an over-the-top analogy
> here, this would be like when Microsoft switched to Office 365 as a
> subscription. There are now features and updates that you can only get if
> you subscribe, and that’s completely okay. But imagine if in addition to
> creating the new subscription, they went back and disabled everyone’s
> licenses who purchased Office 2007, 2010, 2013 and so forth, or made it so
> you couldn’t create new documents. You’d probably think that was insane.
> Yet that’s exactly what this developer is doing. That’s the only thing I
> have serious concerns about.
>
>
>
> We’re also talking as if this only applies to one purchase, but this will
> also affect my purchase of Voice Dream Scanner, which they’ve removed from
> the App Store and bundled into the main app, as well as all the voices I
> bought, which I won’t be able to use the same way since I can’t add
> documents.
>
>
>
> This will significantly affect users whose schools or universities bought
> Voice Dream through a district/corporate account, because it will be
> disabled right around exam time.
>
>
>
> What they should do is keep the current version of the app that we
> purchased in the store and release a new subscription app alongside it. Any
> new features that they come up with may well be worth subscribing for, but
> not the current feature set.
>
>
>
> I can’t predict the future but it’s possible this will just slip under
> Apple’s radar come May 1st and I’d imagine that’s what they’re counting on.
>
>
>
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 7:35 AM Chris Chaffin 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Grant,
>
>
>
> I agree that not being able to add more to the VDR library is not leaving
> the app to function the same way.  But a couple of thoughts.
>
>
>
> 1, Since the subscription model has already been added and Apple did
> approve it, I would conclude that Apple will not be rejecting the start of
> the subscription.  There is now a subscription button in settings that
> people are using to subscribe.
>
>
>
> 2, If for some reason Apple stops the subscription from going through as
> is, then I would say that there would be a good chance that VDR might
> disappear for good.  Without the funds to properly support the app, the
> developers will just stop developing it and take it out of the app store.
>
>
>
> If you think back, there has been s

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Chris,


I think there’s a bit of confusion here. I don’t have a problem with Voice
Dream Reader switching to a subscription model. This doesn’t violate any
Apple rules either, and there’s been no pushback on this from me at all. I
also do not believe anyone is entitled to any future updates without
subscribing.


My concern is not what they’ve already done, but what they’re about to do.
What they are going to do come May 1st is actively disable functionality
(our perpetual licenses) that we’ve previously purchased under agreed upon
terms. That’s problematic because it it isn’t healthy for the App Store
ecosystem, in my view. Can you imagine if all the apps you bought could be
disabled or taken back? It’s also against Apple’s developer guidelines, if
I’m reading them correctly and which Cara echoed as well. Developers are
welcome to change pricing and feature availability for new users, but they
generally can’t just take back features you already paid for (though they
can stop giving you updates). To give a bit of an over-the-top analogy
here, this would be like when Microsoft switched to Office 365 as a
subscription. There are now features and updates that you can only get if
you subscribe, and that’s completely okay. But imagine if in addition to
creating the new subscription, they went back and disabled everyone’s
licenses who purchased Office 2007, 2010, 2013 and so forth, or made it so
you couldn’t create new documents. You’d probably think that was insane.
Yet that’s exactly what this developer is doing. That’s the only thing I
have serious concerns about.


We’re also talking as if this only applies to one purchase, but this will
also affect my purchase of Voice Dream Scanner, which they’ve removed from
the App Store and bundled into the main app, as well as all the voices I
bought, which I won’t be able to use the same way since I can’t add
documents.


This will significantly affect users whose schools or universities bought
Voice Dream through a district/corporate account, because it will be
disabled right around exam time.


What they should do is keep the current version of the app that we
purchased in the store and release a new subscription app alongside it. Any
new features that they come up with may well be worth subscribing for, but
not the current feature set.


I can’t predict the future but it’s possible this will just slip under
Apple’s radar come May 1st and I’d imagine that’s what they’re counting on.


Grant Hardy


On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 7:35 AM Chris Chaffin 
wrote:

> Hi Grant,
>
> I agree that not being able to add more to the VDR library is not leaving
> the app to function the same way.  But a couple of thoughts.
>
> 1, Since the subscription model has already been added and Apple did
> approve it, I would conclude that Apple will not be rejecting the start of
> the subscription.  There is now a subscription button in settings that
> people are using to subscribe.
>
> 2, If for some reason Apple stops the subscription from going through as
> is, then I would say that there would be a good chance that VDR might
> disappear for good.  Without the funds to properly support the app, the
> developers will just stop developing it and take it out of the app store.
>
> If you think back, there has been several updates over the last year.
> Whether the update is adding a new feature, updating it to work with a new
> iOS release,  or just finding the cause of bugs and fixing them, it all
> takes time, and time cost money.  I have actually been surprised that there
> have been so many updates.
>
> I am not happy about the subscription, but I use VDR on a daily basis, and
> I would also not be happy to see it go away.  there are just not any app
> that does all that I do with the app.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Apr 1, 2024, at 3:36 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hey Arnold, taking away the ability to add to the library is a fundamental
> change to the app, removing functionality I paid for. The app will not
> remain the same.
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 12:20 PM Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
>
>> I interpreted what they said to mean that everything about the app prior
>> to subscription would continue to work. The only change would be that one
>> no longer could add new content for it to read,  and none of the new
>> features would be added.
>>
>> Arnold Schmidt
>>
>> Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't
>> feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the
>> economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are
>> very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willf

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Chris Chaffin]

Hi Dennis,I was actually surprised that they came on Jonathan's podcast, and to me, that says a lot that they did.  Plus, the developer did admit that they handled things in the wrong way and actually apologized for it.I do not think the developers are use to a community that expects engagement and communication like we do.  To me, from the interview, it sounded like the developers were surprised that they did not hear from the community more often requesting features.  For example, they looked into adding the personal voice feature to the app, but since no one really requested it, they concluded that the community did not want it.  But what they should have done is posted something to the community on AppleVis / Social Media asking if anyone was interested in that feature.I know that at least one person has recommended to them that maybe they should look at starting an email list.  That way, they could use it as a way of keeping in direct touch with the community.  I personally think this is a good idea.  It would be a central place where the developers and the community could engage with each other.Like you said, the future will tell us the story.ChrisOn Apr 2, 2024, at 12:12 PM, Dennis Long  wrote:Chris I tend to agree with you.  Now lets be clear they need a lesson in communication their communication skills are total shit.  You never ever under any circumstance let the user base define your changes.  You get out in front of it.  I will give them a few months to see if they  do what they say.  I may even subscribe for the year and see if they do what they say.  The interview with Jonathan Mosen they seemed liked they cared.  They did a terrible job of getting front facing and being out in front of issues. From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Chris ChaffinSent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 10:36 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader Hi Grant, I agree that not being able to add more to the VDR library is not leaving the app to function the same way.  But a couple of thoughts. 1, Since the subscription model has already been added and Apple did approve it, I would conclude that Apple will not be rejecting the start of the subscription.  There is now a subscription button in settings that people are using to subscribe. 2, If for some reason Apple stops the subscription from going through as is, then I would say that there would be a good chance that VDR might disappear for good.  Without the funds to properly support the app, the developers will just stop developing it and take it out of the app store. If you think back, there has been several updates over the last year.  Whether the update is adding a new feature, updating it to work with a new iOS release,  or just finding the cause of bugs and fixing them, it all takes time, and time cost money.  I have actually been surprised that there have been so many updates. I am not happy about the subscription, but I use VDR on a daily basis, and I would also not be happy to see it go away.  there are just not any app that does all that I do with the app. Chris On Apr 1, 2024, at 3:36 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Arnold, taking away the ability to add to the library is a fundamental change to the app, removing functionality I paid for. The app will not remain the same.Grant Hardy  On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 12:20 PM Arnold Schmidt <als5...@gmail.com> wrote:I interpreted what they said to mean that everything about the app prior to subscription would continue to work. The only change would be that one no longer could add new content for it to read,  and none of the new features would be added.  Arnold Schmidt  Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Apr 1, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willfully introducing code that will disable people's previous purchases. I don't think that's appropriate because it sets a precedent where any purchase you've made from the App Store could not just get out of date, but actually be revoked. That wouldn't be healthy for the community. I don't have an issue with anything else they're doing, only this one specific behaviour. To give an over the top example, screen readers have introduced subscription plans for users who want them. Now imagine if your screen reader developer wrote to you one day advising that they were going to be disabling the license you purchased, and you would then have to start from scratch by renting it again. That's essentially what's happened here, because my purchases (VDR, several voices, Voice Dream Scanner) are not going to be available to me anymore. Grant Hardy  On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 4:53 AM Christoph

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Chris Chaffin]

Hi Grant,I agree that not being able to add more to the VDR library is not leaving the app to function the same way.  But a couple of thoughts.1, Since the subscription model has already been added and Apple did approve it, I would conclude that Apple will not be rejecting the start of the subscription.  There is now a subscription button in settings that people are using to subscribe.2, If for some reason Apple stops the subscription from going through as is, then I would say that there would be a good chance that VDR might disappear for good.  Without the funds to properly support the app, the developers will just stop developing it and take it out of the app store.If you think back, there has been several updates over the last year.  Whether the update is adding a new feature, updating it to work with a new iOS release,  or just finding the cause of bugs and fixing them, it all takes time, and time cost money.  I have actually been surprised that there have been so many updates.I am not happy about the subscription, but I use VDR on a daily basis, and I would also not be happy to see it go away.  there are just not any app that does all that I do with the app.ChrisOn Apr 1, 2024, at 3:36 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:Hey Arnold, taking away the ability to add to the library is a fundamental change to the app, removing functionality I paid for. The app will not remain the same.Grant HardyOn Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 12:20 PM Arnold Schmidt <als5...@gmail.com> wrote:I interpreted what they said to mean that everything about the app prior to subscription would continue to work. The only change would be that one no longer could add new content for it to read,  and none of the new features would be added. Arnold Schmidt Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Apr 1, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willfully introducing code that will disable people's previous purchases. I don't think that's appropriate because it sets a precedent where any purchase you've made from the App Store could not just get out of date, but actually be revoked. That wouldn't be healthy for the community. I don't have an issue with anything else they're doing, only this one specific behaviour.To give an over the top example, screen readers have introduced subscription plans for users who want them. Now imagine if your screen reader developer wrote to you one day advising that they were going to be disabling the license you purchased, and you would then have to start from scratch by renting it again. That's essentially what's happened here, because my purchases (VDR, several voices, Voice Dream Scanner) are not going to be available to me anymore. Grant HardyOn Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 4:53 AM Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@outlook.com> wrote:







You’re right, if they just let the existing app die on the vine, and they put out a new app, then it wouldn’t be much of a burden to them. I was assuming they’d still
 just have one app that would start including the new functionality for the subscribers but leave the existing functionality for the current users. This would require branches in the code, ongoing maintenance for those with the existing functionality and regression
 testing to make sure existing functionality didn’t break.
 
Again, you’re right. They couldn’t pull the app from the store and erase it from everyone phone, but if they just pivoted away from the app altogether because supporting
 it as is isn’t sustainable then what functionality would be impacted and how long would it be before it stopped functioning altogether? My point was that enforcing the guidelines won’t make a business model sustainable and keep a company afloat.
 
Sounds  to me like Winston had a great idea for an app, couldn’t keep putting food on the table the way things were, sold it to another company who’s also trying to make
 it work, and is now fumbling it’s way to get to a position where they can support a great app and make some money off of it as well. I just don’t see bad guys here, but rather developers trying to adjust to a changing market.
 
Sorry, I should have just left this alone. Like I said, I think y’all have a point about these guidelines, and I think you should definitely raise it with the developers
 and Apple. ,I know I may keep using the app if this all works out. If not, I’ve already gotten my money’s worth from Voice Dream, and I’ve already started  using alternatives.
 
--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA
 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Grant Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to App

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Christopher Chaltain]

If you’re talking about the change they made when the app changed ownership, I 
never interpreted that to be a life time guarantee. I always just assumed that 
applied to the changes they were making at the time. Of course, my opinion is 
irrelevant.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dennis 
Long
Sent: Monday, April 1, 2024 8:19 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

I agree it isn’t sustainable to expect a $10 purchase for 10 years ago to keep 
the app going.  Where this company clearly went wrong is saying there would be 
no change for existing users.  Had they simply said at this time we don’t plan 
to change things for existing users they would’ve been covered.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, April 1, 2024 7:54 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

You’re right, if they just let the existing app die on the vine, and they put 
out a new app, then it wouldn’t be much of a burden to them. I was assuming 
they’d still just have one app that would start including the new functionality 
for the subscribers but leave the existing functionality for the current users. 
This would require branches in the code, ongoing maintenance for those with the 
existing functionality and regression testing to make sure existing 
functionality didn’t break.

Again, you’re right. They couldn’t pull the app from the store and erase it 
from everyone phone, but if they just pivoted away from the app altogether 
because supporting it as is isn’t sustainable then what functionality would be 
impacted and how long would it be before it stopped functioning altogether? My 
point was that enforcing the guidelines won’t make a business model sustainable 
and keep a company afloat.

Sounds  to me like Winston had a great idea for an app, couldn’t keep putting 
food on the table the way things were, sold it to another company who’s also 
trying to make it work, and is now fumbling it’s way to get to a position where 
they can support a great app and make some money off of it as well. I just 
don’t see bad guys here, but rather developers trying to adjust to a changing 
market.

Sorry, I should have just left this alone. Like I said, I think y’all have a 
point about these guidelines, and I think you should definitely raise it with 
the developers and Apple. ,I know I may keep using the app if this all works 
out. If not, I’ve already gotten my money’s worth from Voice Dream, and I’ve 
already started  using alternatives.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If Voice 
Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t provide us 
with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously purchased 
functionality, and just released a new app with the subscription, what do you 
mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There wouldn’t be any 
additional development, testing or technical support needed for the previously 
purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they would incur. Or do you mean 
the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from users who previously 
bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to re-purchase, rent, our 
licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone if the App Store team told 
them they can’t change the terms for previous customers, I’m not really sure 
how that would benefit them or anybody else, it sounds like a zero-sum solution 
where everybody loses. I don’t know exactly how that works either if developers 
wish to erase something from everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely 
uncommon. I have many discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think 
one thing this has taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation 
files locally on your computer like we used to in the good ‘ol days. You can 
use iMazing on Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an 
older version of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on 
being able to download the latest versions of apps from the App Store’s 
purchase history given this type of situation.


Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 4:46 PM Christopher Chaltain 
mailto:chalt...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an issue 
of a sustainable business model then

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Arnold, taking away the ability to add to the library is a fundamental
change to the app, removing functionality I paid for. The app will not
remain the same.

Grant Hardy


On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 12:20 PM Arnold Schmidt  wrote:

> I interpreted what they said to mean that everything about the app prior
> to subscription would continue to work. The only change would be that one
> no longer could add new content for it to read,  and none of the new
> features would be added.
>
> Arnold Schmidt
>
> Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3
>
> On Apr 1, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
> 
> Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't
> feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the
> economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are
> very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willfully
> introducing code that will disable people's previous purchases. I don't
> think that's appropriate because it sets a precedent where any purchase
> you've made from the App Store could not just get out of date, but actually
> be revoked. That wouldn't be healthy for the community. I don't have an
> issue with anything else they're doing, only this one specific behaviour.
>
> To give an over the top example, screen readers have introduced
> subscription plans for users who want them. Now imagine if your screen
> reader developer wrote to you one day advising that they were going to be
> disabling the license you purchased, and you would then have to start from
> scratch by renting it again. That's essentially what's happened here,
> because my purchases (VDR, several voices, Voice Dream Scanner) are not
> going to be available to me anymore.
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 4:53 AM Christopher Chaltain 
> wrote:
>
>> You’re right, if they just let the existing app die on the vine, and they
>> put out a new app, then it wouldn’t be much of a burden to them. I was
>> assuming they’d still just have one app that would start including the new
>> functionality for the subscribers but leave the existing functionality for
>> the current users. This would require branches in the code, ongoing
>> maintenance for those with the existing functionality and regression
>> testing to make sure existing functionality didn’t break.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, you’re right. They couldn’t pull the app from the store and erase
>> it from everyone phone, but if they just pivoted away from the app
>> altogether because supporting it as is isn’t sustainable then what
>> functionality would be impacted and how long would it be before it stopped
>> functioning altogether? My point was that enforcing the guidelines won’t
>> make a business model sustainable and keep a company afloat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds  to me like Winston had a great idea for an app, couldn’t keep
>> putting food on the table the way things were, sold it to another company
>> who’s also trying to make it work, and is now fumbling it’s way to get to a
>> position where they can support a great app and make some money off of it
>> as well. I just don’t see bad guys here, but rather developers trying to
>> adjust to a changing market.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I should have just left this alone. Like I said, I think y’all
>> have a point about these guidelines, and I think you should definitely
>> raise it with the developers and Apple. ,I know I may keep using the app if
>> this all works out. If not, I’ve already gotten my money’s worth from Voice
>> Dream, and I’ve already started  using alternatives.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
>>
>> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf
>> Of *Grant Hardy
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM
>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If
>> Voice Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t
>> provide us with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously
>> purchased functionality, and just released a new app with the subscription,
>> what do you mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There
>> wouldn’t be any additional development, testing or technical support needed
>> for the previously purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they would
>> incur. Or do you mean the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from
>> users who p

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Arnold Schmidt]

I interpreted what they said to mean that everything about the app prior to subscription would continue to work. The only change would be that one no longer could add new content for it to read,  and none of the new features would be added. Arnold Schmidt Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Apr 1, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willfully introducing code that will disable people's previous purchases. I don't think that's appropriate because it sets a precedent where any purchase you've made from the App Store could not just get out of date, but actually be revoked. That wouldn't be healthy for the community. I don't have an issue with anything else they're doing, only this one specific behaviour.To give an over the top example, screen readers have introduced subscription plans for users who want them. Now imagine if your screen reader developer wrote to you one day advising that they were going to be disabling the license you purchased, and you would then have to start from scratch by renting it again. That's essentially what's happened here, because my purchases (VDR, several voices, Voice Dream Scanner) are not going to be available to me anymore. Grant HardyOn Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 4:53 AM Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@outlook.com> wrote:







You’re right, if they just let the existing app die on the vine, and they put out a new app, then it wouldn’t be much of a burden to them. I was assuming they’d still
 just have one app that would start including the new functionality for the subscribers but leave the existing functionality for the current users. This would require branches in the code, ongoing maintenance for those with the existing functionality and regression
 testing to make sure existing functionality didn’t break.
 
Again, you’re right. They couldn’t pull the app from the store and erase it from everyone phone, but if they just pivoted away from the app altogether because supporting
 it as is isn’t sustainable then what functionality would be impacted and how long would it be before it stopped functioning altogether? My point was that enforcing the guidelines won’t make a business model sustainable and keep a company afloat.
 
Sounds  to me like Winston had a great idea for an app, couldn’t keep putting food on the table the way things were, sold it to another company who’s also trying to make
 it work, and is now fumbling it’s way to get to a position where they can support a great app and make some money off of it as well. I just don’t see bad guys here, but rather developers trying to adjust to a changing market.
 
Sorry, I should have just left this alone. Like I said, I think y’all have a point about these guidelines, and I think you should definitely raise it with the developers
 and Apple. ,I know I may keep using the app if this all works out. If not, I’ve already gotten my money’s worth from Voice Dream, and I’ve already started  using alternatives.
 
--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA
 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Grant Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 


Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If Voice Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t provide us with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously purchased functionality, and
 just released a new app with the subscription, what do you mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There wouldn’t be any additional development, testing or technical support needed for the previously purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they
 would incur. Or do you mean the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from users who previously bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to re-purchase, rent, our licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone if the App Store team told
 them they can’t change the terms for previous customers, I’m not really sure how that would benefit them or anybody else, it sounds like a zero-sum solution where everybody loses. I don’t know exactly how that works either if developers wish to erase something
 from everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely uncommon. I have many discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think one thing this has taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation files locally on your computer like we used to in
 the good ‘ol days. You can use iMazing on Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an older version of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on being able to down

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Christopher, no, I absolutely appreciate your opinion, please don't
feel like you shouldn't have commented. I also understand that the
economics of creating and maintaining a functional, niche app like this are
very difficult. However, the only thing I have an issue with is willfully
introducing code that will disable people's previous purchases. I don't
think that's appropriate because it sets a precedent where any purchase
you've made from the App Store could not just get out of date, but actually
be revoked. That wouldn't be healthy for the community. I don't have an
issue with anything else they're doing, only this one specific behaviour.

To give an over the top example, screen readers have introduced
subscription plans for users who want them. Now imagine if your screen
reader developer wrote to you one day advising that they were going to be
disabling the license you purchased, and you would then have to start from
scratch by renting it again. That's essentially what's happened here,
because my purchases (VDR, several voices, Voice Dream Scanner) are not
going to be available to me anymore.

Grant Hardy


On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 4:53 AM Christopher Chaltain 
wrote:

> You’re right, if they just let the existing app die on the vine, and they
> put out a new app, then it wouldn’t be much of a burden to them. I was
> assuming they’d still just have one app that would start including the new
> functionality for the subscribers but leave the existing functionality for
> the current users. This would require branches in the code, ongoing
> maintenance for those with the existing functionality and regression
> testing to make sure existing functionality didn’t break.
>
>
>
> Again, you’re right. They couldn’t pull the app from the store and erase
> it from everyone phone, but if they just pivoted away from the app
> altogether because supporting it as is isn’t sustainable then what
> functionality would be impacted and how long would it be before it stopped
> functioning altogether? My point was that enforcing the guidelines won’t
> make a business model sustainable and keep a company afloat.
>
>
>
> Sounds  to me like Winston had a great idea for an app, couldn’t keep
> putting food on the table the way things were, sold it to another company
> who’s also trying to make it work, and is now fumbling it’s way to get to a
> position where they can support a great app and make some money off of it
> as well. I just don’t see bad guys here, but rather developers trying to
> adjust to a changing market.
>
>
>
> Sorry, I should have just left this alone. Like I said, I think y’all have
> a point about these guidelines, and I think you should definitely raise it
> with the developers and Apple. ,I know I may keep using the app if this all
> works out. If not, I’ve already gotten my money’s worth from Voice Dream,
> and I’ve already started  using alternatives.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
>
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If
> Voice Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t
> provide us with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously
> purchased functionality, and just released a new app with the subscription,
> what do you mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There
> wouldn’t be any additional development, testing or technical support needed
> for the previously purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they would
> incur. Or do you mean the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from
> users who previously bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to
> re-purchase, rent, our licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone
> if the App Store team told them they can’t change the terms for previous
> customers, I’m not really sure how that would benefit them or anybody else,
> it sounds like a zero-sum solution where everybody loses. I don’t know
> exactly how that works either if developers wish to erase something from
> everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely uncommon. I have many
> discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think one thing this has
> taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation files locally on
> your computer like we used to in the good ‘ol days. You can use iMazing on
> Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an older version
> of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on being able
> to download the latest versions of apps from the App Stor

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Christopher Chaltain]

You’re right, if they just let the existing app die on the vine, and they put 
out a new app, then it wouldn’t be much of a burden to them. I was assuming 
they’d still just have one app that would start including the new functionality 
for the subscribers but leave the existing functionality for the current users. 
This would require branches in the code, ongoing maintenance for those with the 
existing functionality and regression testing to make sure existing 
functionality didn’t break.

Again, you’re right. They couldn’t pull the app from the store and erase it 
from everyone phone, but if they just pivoted away from the app altogether 
because supporting it as is isn’t sustainable then what functionality would be 
impacted and how long would it be before it stopped functioning altogether? My 
point was that enforcing the guidelines won’t make a business model sustainable 
and keep a company afloat.

Sounds  to me like Winston had a great idea for an app, couldn’t keep putting 
food on the table the way things were, sold it to another company who’s also 
trying to make it work, and is now fumbling it’s way to get to a position where 
they can support a great app and make some money off of it as well. I just 
don’t see bad guys here, but rather developers trying to adjust to a changing 
market.

Sorry, I should have just left this alone. Like I said, I think y’all have a 
point about these guidelines, and I think you should definitely raise it with 
the developers and Apple. ,I know I may keep using the app if this all works 
out. If not, I’ve already gotten my money’s worth from Voice Dream, and I’ve 
already started  using alternatives.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 10:12 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If Voice 
Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t provide us 
with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously purchased 
functionality, and just released a new app with the subscription, what do you 
mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There wouldn’t be any 
additional development, testing or technical support needed for the previously 
purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they would incur. Or do you mean 
the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from users who previously 
bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to re-purchase, rent, our 
licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone if the App Store team told 
them they can’t change the terms for previous customers, I’m not really sure 
how that would benefit them or anybody else, it sounds like a zero-sum solution 
where everybody loses. I don’t know exactly how that works either if developers 
wish to erase something from everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely 
uncommon. I have many discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think 
one thing this has taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation 
files locally on your computer like we used to in the good ‘ol days. You can 
use iMazing on Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an 
older version of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on 
being able to download the latest versions of apps from the App Store’s 
purchase history given this type of situation.


Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 4:46 PM Christopher Chaltain 
mailto:chalt...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an issue 
of a sustainable business model then Apple’s guidelines can’t keep a developer 
from just pulling the app altogether. I don’t know what their user community 
looks like, so I don’t know if this is an issue for them or not. It does seem 
to be though that supporting current customers with current functionality, as 
well as future customers with new functionality, isn’t going to be free. There 
will be development, test and maintenance costs.

I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t contact Apple and pursue this, in fact I think 
that’s exactly what people should do. I’ll be interested to see what comes of 
it.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

Hi Arnold,

None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could 
do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality 
isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many 
new apps and app updates on a regular basis and 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If Voice
Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t provide us
with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously purchased
functionality, and just released a new app with the subscription, what do
you mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There wouldn’t be any
additional development, testing or technical support needed for the
previously purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they would incur.
Or do you mean the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from users
who previously bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to
re-purchase, rent, our licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone
if the App Store team told them they can’t change the terms for previous
customers, I’m not really sure how that would benefit them or anybody else,
it sounds like a zero-sum solution where everybody loses. I don’t know
exactly how that works either if developers wish to erase something from
everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely uncommon. I have many
discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think one thing this has
taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation files locally on
your computer like we used to in the good ‘ol days. You can use iMazing on
Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an older version
of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on being able
to download the latest versions of apps from the App Store’s purchase
history given this type of situation.


Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 4:46 PM Christopher Chaltain 
wrote:

> I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an
> issue of a sustainable business model then Apple’s guidelines can’t keep a
> developer from just pulling the app altogether. I don’t know what their
> user community looks like, so I don’t know if this is an issue for them or
> not. It does seem to be though that supporting current customers with
> current functionality, as well as future customers with new functionality,
> isn’t going to be free. There will be development, test and maintenance
> costs.
>
>
>
> I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t contact Apple and pursue this, in fact I
> think that’s exactly what people should do. I’ll be interested to see what
> comes of it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
>
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:47 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hi Arnold,
>
>
>
> None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple
> could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so
> functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review
> team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not
> a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good
> to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released
> last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it,
> especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update.
>
>
>
> However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that
> they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my
> reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I
> think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review
> team doesn't catch everything.
>
>
>
> Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
>
> Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that
> their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't
> hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They
> could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take
> years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would
> prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the
> developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop
> supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to
> court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up
> worse off than if Apple just let it go.
>
>
>
> Arnold Schmidt
>
>
>
> Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi Arnold,
>
>
>
> As per your second point, there could still be lot

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Christopher Chaltain]

I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an issue 
of a sustainable business model then Apple’s guidelines can’t keep a developer 
from just pulling the app altogether. I don’t know what their user community 
looks like, so I don’t know if this is an issue for them or not. It does seem 
to be though that supporting current customers with current functionality, as 
well as future customers with new functionality, isn’t going to be free. There 
will be development, test and maintenance costs.

I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t contact Apple and pursue this, in fact I think 
that’s exactly what people should do. I’ll be interested to see what comes of 
it.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

Hi Arnold,

None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could 
do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality 
isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many 
new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just 
implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if 
the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull 
the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was 
undocumented until you installed the update.

However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that 
they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my 
reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I 
think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team 
doesn't catch everything.

Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.

Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt 
mailto:als5...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that 
their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt 
everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue 
the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. 
Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from 
operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, 
to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of 
business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions 
are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go.

Arnold Schmidt

Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3

On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy 
mailto:grantha...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Arnold,

As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a 
subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could 
release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling 
enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them.

However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge for 
features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features 
include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and 
scanning documents.

As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, 
they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not update 
the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on the terms 
we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables features.

Thanks,

Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy 
mailto:grantha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Cara,

I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I did.

Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given 
developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is 
that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge 
benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please 
don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more 
protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take away 
what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm 
throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive place 
where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I can get 
the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. And I 
would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t following 
what they agreed upon.

It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally 
disabled and I'm a little taken aback 

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t go 
away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I do 
think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have pissed 
off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is now.  The 
question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the blind 
community.
2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.
I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never seen 
the community so united.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hi Arnold,
 
None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could 
do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality 
isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many 
new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just 
implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if 
the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull 
the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was 
undocumented until you installed the update.
 
However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that 
they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my 
reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I 
think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team 
doesn't catch everything.
 
Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt mailto:als5...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that 
their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt 
everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue 
the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. 
Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from 
operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, 
to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of 
business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions 
are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go. 
 
Arnold Schmidt 
 
Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3

On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy mailto:grantha...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi Arnold,
 
As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a 
subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could 
release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling 
enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them.
 
However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge for 
features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features 
include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and 
scanning documents.
 
As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, 
they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not update 
the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on the terms 
we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables features. 
 
Thanks,


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy mailto:grantha...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Hi Cara,
 
I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I did.
 
Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given 
developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is 
that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge 
benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please 
don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more 
protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take away 
what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm 
throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive place 
where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I can get 
the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. And I 
would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t following 
what they agreed upon.
 
It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally 
disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side haven't 
addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and get a 
response, I'd certainly love to hear it.

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

 regardless of 
>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What 
>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What 
>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>> 
>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to 
>> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on 
>> this.
>> 
>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this 
>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the 
>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>> 
>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>> 
>> Cara
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner >> <mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you 
>>> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you 
>>> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with 
>>> purchasing a game. 
>>> 
>>> Richard, USA
>>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores 
>>> it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get 
>>> it.”
>>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>>>  
>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy >>> <mailto:grantha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hey Richard,
>>>> 
>>>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are 
>>>> tricky.
>>>> 
>>>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>>>> 
>>>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business 
>>>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users 
>>>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already 
>>>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you 
>>>> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a 
>>>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the 
>>>> functionality they previously paid for.
>>>> 
>>>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any 
>>>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be 
>>>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the 
>>>> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or 
>>>> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app 
>>>> that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. 
>>>> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is 
>>>> in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.
>>>> 
>>>> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app 
>>>> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not 
>>>> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working 
>>>> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that 
>>>> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased 
>>>> license.
>>>> 
>>>> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new 
>>>> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous 
>>>> purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on 
>>>> transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do 
>>>> about my text content yet.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Grant Hardy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner 
>>>> mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>>> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan 
>>>>> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

ly 
>>> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side 
>>> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and 
>>> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
>>> 
>>> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money 
>>> is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's 
>>> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system 
>>> with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be 
>>> disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. 
>>> I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO 
>>> user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this 
>>> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But 
>>> more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the 
>>> protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I 
>>> switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even 
>>> if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having 
>>> all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Grant Hardy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn >> <mailto:modelc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Richard and All,
>>>> 
>>>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions 
>>>> here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in 
>>>> this race. :)
>>>> 
>>>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is 
>>>> saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks 
>>>> to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased 
>>>> functionality is being removed.
>>>> 
>>>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not 
>>>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to 
>>>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>>>> 
>>>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want 
>>>> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>>>> 
>>>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more 
>>>> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn 
>>>> around a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they 
>>>> all need to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that 
>>>> can be seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, 
>>>> of course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>>>> 
>>>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period 
>>>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after 
>>>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless 
>>>> of whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? 
>>>> What about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? 
>>>> What time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>>> 
>>>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to 
>>>> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on 
>>>> this.
>>>> 
>>>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this 
>>>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the 
>>>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>>>> 
>>>> Cara
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner >>>> <mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, 
>>>>> you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, 
>>>>> you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your 
>>>>> analogy with purchasing a game. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Richard, USA
>>&g

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this
>> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But
>> more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the
>> protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I
>> switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even
>> if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having
>> all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date.
>>
>>
>>
>> Grant Hardy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Richard and All,
>>>
>>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any
>>> opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no
>>> horse in this race. :)
>>>
>>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is
>>> saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks
>>> to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased
>>> functionality is being removed.
>>>
>>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not
>>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to
>>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>>>
>>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want
>>> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>>>
>>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more
>>> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around
>>> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need
>>> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be
>>> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of
>>> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>>>
>>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period
>>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after
>>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of
>>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What
>>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What
>>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>>
>>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem
>>> to address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this
>>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the
>>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>>>
>>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>>>
>>> Cara
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st,
>>> you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby,
>>> you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy
>>> with purchasing a game.
>>>
>>> Richard, USA
>>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God
>>> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to
>>> get it.”
>>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>>>
>>>
>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Hey Richard,
>>>
>>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are
>>> tricky.
>>>
>>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>>>
>>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business
>>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users
>>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already
>>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you
>>> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a
>>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kep

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn > <mailto:modelc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi Richard and All,
>>> 
>>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions 
>>> here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in 
>>> this race. :)
>>> 
>>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. 
>>> One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add 
>>> to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality 
>>> is being removed.
>>> 
>>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not 
>>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to 
>>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>>> 
>>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want 
>>> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>>> 
>>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more 
>>> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around 
>>> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need 
>>> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be 
>>> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of 
>>> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>>> 
>>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period 
>>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after 
>>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of 
>>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What 
>>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What 
>>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>> 
>>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to 
>>> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this 
>>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the 
>>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>>> 
>>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>>> 
>>> Cara
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner >>> <mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you 
>>>> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you 
>>>> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy 
>>>> with purchasing a game. 
>>>> 
>>>> Richard, USA
>>>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God 
>>>> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell 
>>>> to get it.”
>>>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>>>>  
>>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy >>>> <mailto:grantha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hey Richard,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are 
>>>>> tricky.
>>>>> 
>>>>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business 
>>>>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users 
>>>>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already 
>>>>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you 
>>>>> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a 
>>>>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept 
>>>>> the functionality they previously paid for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Arnold Schmidt]

o the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on this.Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)CaraOn Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with purchasing a game. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote:Hey Richard,I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a subscription model for new customers.This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the functionality they previously paid for.In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased license.just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do about my text content yet.Thank you,Grant HardyOn Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to provide a quality product and adding new features. The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers.As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber. But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within the app store.The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through the a

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

 after
>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of
>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What
>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What
>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>
>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to
>> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on
>> this.
>>
>> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this
>> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the
>> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>>
>> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>>
>> Cara
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner 
>> wrote:
>>
>> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st,
>> you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby,
>> you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy
>> with purchasing a game.
>>
>> Richard, USA
>> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God
>> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to
>> get it.”
>> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>>
>>
>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hey Richard,
>>
>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are
>> tricky.
>>
>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>>
>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business
>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users
>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already
>> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you
>> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>>
>>
>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a
>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the
>> functionality they previously paid for.
>>
>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any
>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be
>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the
>> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.
>>
>> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or
>> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app
>> that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all.
>> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is
>> in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.
>>
>> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app
>> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not
>> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working
>> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that
>> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased
>> license.
>>
>> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new
>> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous
>> purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on
>> transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do
>> about my text content yet.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Grant Hardy
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner <
>> richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan
>>> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.
>>>
>>> It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very
>>> clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their
>>> best to provide a quality product and adding new features.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and
>>> double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled
>>> Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers.
>>>
>>> As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14
>>> day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link o

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

go through Hell to
> get it.”
> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
> 
> Hey Richard,
>
> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are
> tricky.
>
> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>
> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business
> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users
> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already
> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you
> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>
>
> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a
> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the
> functionality they previously paid for.
>
> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any
> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be
> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the
> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.
>
> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or
> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app
> that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all.
> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is
> in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.
>
> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app
> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not
> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working
> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that
> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased
> license.
>
> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new
> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous
> purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on
> transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do
> about my text content yet.
>
> Thank you,
> Grant Hardy
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner <
> richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan
>> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.
>>
>> It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very
>> clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their
>> best to provide a quality product and adding new features.
>>
>>
>>
>> The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and
>> double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled
>> Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers.
>>
>> As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14
>> day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button,
>> but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can
>> choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.
>> I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber.
>>
>>
>>
>> But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is
>> within the app store.
>>
>> The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that
>> seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the
>> Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the
>> app store.
>>
>> I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app
>> through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30
>> percent and the developer gets the rest.
>>
>>
>>
>> IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store.
>>
>>
>>
>> They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future.
>>
>>
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard, USA
>>
>> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less
>> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight
>> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life."
>> -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
>>
>>
>>
>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf
>> Of *Dennis Long
>> *Se

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Arnold Schmidt]

Two things. If we choose to contact Apple about this situation, is there an appropriate address to use, or just feedb...@apple.com? And if Apple says the voicedream people  can't stop users from uploading new content to the current Voicedream one would have to admit that there would be little, if any reason for  those who already have the app to buy a subscription. About all the voicedream people could do is to release a new app so that a user would have to subscribe to get any future updates. The old one would no longer be supported, and would work as long as it does. Arnold Schmidt P.S. I fell for it and subscribed earlier today through the app store.  I thought that at least something would change after my subscribing,  but so far, there is absolutely no difference in voicedream before and after, at least that I can find.Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Mar 31, 2024, at 12:06 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:Hi Richard and All,Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in this race. :)Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality is being removed.Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on this.Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)CaraOn Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner  wrote:If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with purchasing a game. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:Hey Richard,I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a subscription model for new customers.This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the functionality they previously paid for.In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not talking about apps not being developed anymore

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Richard and All,

Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions here 
on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in this race. 
:)

Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. One 
important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add to their 
library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality is being 
removed.

Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not 
legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to complain, 
but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.

As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want and 
still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.

If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more expensive 
lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around a couple of 
months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need to move to the 
subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be seen as a form of 
contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of course, and please, by all 
means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period than my 
example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after three months or 
so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of whether they had 
already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What about if I did this 
after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What time frame is 
appropriate? Does time frame matter?

In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to 
address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on this.

Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this 
situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the 
Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!

Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)

Cara




> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you 
> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you 
> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with 
> purchasing a game. 
> 
> Richard, USA
> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores 
> it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”
> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>  
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>  
> 
> 
>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hey Richard,
>> 
>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.
>> 
>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>> 
>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business 
>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users 
>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased 
>> a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a 
>> subscription model for new customers.
>> 
>> 
>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a 
>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the 
>> functionality they previously paid for.
>> 
>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any 
>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be 
>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the 
>> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.
>> 
>> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or 
>> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app that 
>> is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. 
>> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is 
>> in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.
>> 
>> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app 
>> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not 
>> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working 
>> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that 
>> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased 
>> license.
>> 
>> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new 
>> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous purchases 
>> is the appropriate solution. At the momen

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with purchasing a game. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:Hey Richard,I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a subscription model for new customers.This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the functionality they previously paid for.In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased license.just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do about my text content yet.Thank you,Grant HardyOn Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to provide a quality product and adding new features. The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers.As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber. But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within the app store.The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30 percent and the developer gets the rest. IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store. They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future. HTH, Richard, USA"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009) My web site: https://www.turner42.com From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Dennis LongSent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback. From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Michael IronsSent: Saturday, March

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Richard,

I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.

However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:

If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business
model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users
have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already
purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you
introduce a subscription model for new customers.


This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a
subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the
functionality they previously paid for.

In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any
purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be
disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the
quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.

I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or
charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app
that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all.
Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is
in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.

If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app
purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not
talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working
anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that
specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased
license.

just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new
owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous
purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on
transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do
about my text content yet.

Thank you,
Grant Hardy


On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner 
wrote:

> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan
> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.
>
> It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very
> clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their
> best to provide a quality product and adding new features.
>
>
>
> The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and
> double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled
> Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers.
>
> As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14
> day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button,
> but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can
> choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.
> I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber.
>
>
>
> But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is
> within the app store.
>
> The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that
> seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the
> Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the
> app store.
>
> I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app
> through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30
> percent and the developer gets the rest.
>
>
>
> IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store.
>
>
>
> They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future.
>
>
>
> HTH,
>
>
>
> Richard, USA
>
> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less
> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight
> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life."
> -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
>
>
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Dennis Long
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents
> and get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to
> it.  I do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Michael Irons
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hello everybody I believe that we 

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

I will echo your feedback.  They have lost the trust of the community through 
their own actions.  Finding out through someone else getting emails about it is 
not how we  should’ve found out.  Had they controlled the narrative would’ve 
been the best result.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 10:00 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
I agree with their communication issues.  I just wrote them and recommended 
they start their own email discussion list.  The one that currently exists that 
Alan Lemley started called Voice Dream Products still includes the apps Winston 
owns, so they need to start their own.
I hope they do sooner rather than later.
 
Take care,
Richard, USA
"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
 
My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 6:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Richard I do agree with you  I do think they truly care.  There messaging and 
communication is absolutely terrible and that is something they need to work 
on.  Being honest transparent and communicating with us to see what we want and 
need in the app will go a long way.  But again Richard I do agree they care.  
I’m considering the monthly option.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Richard Turner
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 9:01 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing 
Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.
It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear 
that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to 
provide a quality product and adding new features.
 
The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double 
tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing 
Changes for One-Time Purchasers.
As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day 
trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you 
double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to 
subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know 
what you get if you are a new subscriber.
 
But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within 
the app store.
The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems 
to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group 
gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.
I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through 
the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30 percent and the 
developer gets the rest.
 
IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store.
 
They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future.
 
HTH,
 
Richard, USA
"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
 
My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and 
get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I 
do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Michael Irons
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hello everybody I

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

I agree with their communication issues.  I just wrote them and recommended 
they start their own email discussion list.  The one that currently exists that 
Alan Lemley started called Voice Dream Products still includes the apps Winston 
owns, so they need to start their own.

I hope they do sooner rather than later.

 

Take care,

Richard, USA

"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dennis 
Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 6:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Richard I do agree with you  I do think they truly care.  There messaging and 
communication is absolutely terrible and that is something they need to work 
on.  Being honest transparent and communicating with us to see what we want and 
need in the app will go a long way.  But again Richard I do agree they care.  
I’m considering the monthly option.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Richard Turner
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 9:01 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing 
Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.

It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear 
that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to 
provide a quality product and adding new features.

 

The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double 
tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing 
Changes for One-Time Purchasers.

As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day 
trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you 
double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to 
subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know 
what you get if you are a new subscriber.

 

But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within 
the app store.

The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems 
to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group 
gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.

I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through 
the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30 percent and the 
developer gets the rest.

 

IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store.

 

They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future.

 

HTH,

 

Richard, USA

"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and 
get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I 
do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Michael Irons
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with voice 
dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase prices or 
make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do need to do or 
have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t make any money for 
anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d all be better served 
if we could look for something that does the same things as voice dream reader 
and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people 
that 

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

Richard I do agree with you  I do think they truly care.  There messaging and 
communication is absolutely terrible and that is something they need to work 
on.  Being honest transparent and communicating with us to see what we want and 
need in the app will go a long way.  But again Richard I do agree they care.  
I’m considering the monthly option.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 9:01 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing 
Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.
It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear 
that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to 
provide a quality product and adding new features.
 
The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double 
tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing 
Changes for One-Time Purchasers.
As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day 
trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you 
double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to 
subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know 
what you get if you are a new subscriber.
 
But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within 
the app store.
The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems 
to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group 
gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.
I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through 
the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30 percent and the 
developer gets the rest.
 
IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store.
 
They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future.
 
HTH,
 
Richard, USA
"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)
 
My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and 
get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I 
do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Michael Irons
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with voice 
dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase prices or 
make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do need to do or 
have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t make any money for 
anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d all be better served 
if we could look for something that does the same things as voice dream reader 
and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people 
that work with voice dream reader are going to do whatever they’re going to do 
and they’re not willing to, or able to change their minds.  Just trying to find 
an alternative would be a lot more productive for everybody than just talking 
about not being able to use voice dream reader. I’m just saying all this 
whatever it’s worth. For all I know it may not be worth anything not even a 
plug penny or a plug nickel. 
Sent from my iPhone
 
On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel mailto:siegh...@live.ca> > wrote:
 
I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to increase 
the price for their app or to charge something for a previously free app or to 
switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their decision. 
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey guys,
 
If yo

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing 
Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.

It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear 
that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to 
provide a quality product and adding new features.

 

The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double 
tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing 
Changes for One-Time Purchasers.

As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day 
trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you 
double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to 
subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know 
what you get if you are a new subscriber.

 

But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within 
the app store.

The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems 
to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group 
gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.

I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through 
the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30 percent and the 
developer gets the rest.

 

IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store.

 

They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future.

 

HTH,

 

Richard, USA

"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a 
disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or 
you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. 
Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009)

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dennis 
Long
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and 
get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I 
do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Michael Irons
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with voice 
dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase prices or 
make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do need to do or 
have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t make any money for 
anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d all be better served 
if we could look for something that does the same things as voice dream reader 
and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people 
that work with voice dream reader are going to do whatever they’re going to do 
and they’re not willing to, or able to change their minds.  Just trying to find 
an alternative would be a lot more productive for everybody than just talking 
about not being able to use voice dream reader. I’m just saying all this 
whatever it’s worth. For all I know it may not be worth anything not even a 
plug penny or a plug nickel. 

Sent from my iPhone





On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel mailto:siegh...@live.ca> > wrote:

 

I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to increase 
the price for their app or to charge something for a previously free app or to 
switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their decision. 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hey guys,

 

If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for the 
app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please consider 
reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if it violates 
any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: selling lifetime 
licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. The nature of how the 
update was released also didn't give users any warning or opt-out, as the new 
deadline wasn't mentioned in the release notes. I think Apple uses these for 
internal purposes, and if enough people file reports then they may act upon it.

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and 
get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I 
do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael 
Irons
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with voice 
dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase prices or 
make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do need to do or 
have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t make any money for 
anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d all be better served 
if we could look for something that does the same things as voice dream reader 
and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people 
that work with voice dream reader are going to do whatever they’re going to do 
and they’re not willing to, or able to change their minds.  Just trying to find 
an alternative would be a lot more productive for everybody than just talking 
about not being able to use voice dream reader. I’m just saying all this 
whatever it’s worth. For all I know it may not be worth anything not even a 
plug penny or a plug nickel. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel mailto:siegh...@live.ca> > wrote:
 
I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to increase 
the price for their app or to charge something for a previously free app or to 
switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their decision. 
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey guys,
 
If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for the 
app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please consider 
reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if it violates 
any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: selling lifetime 
licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. The nature of how the 
update was released also didn't give users any warning or opt-out, as the new 
deadline wasn't mentioned in the release notes. I think Apple uses these for 
internal purposes, and if enough people file reports then they may act upon it.
 
I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the upcoming 
disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was handled.
 
I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription 
route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a tough 
world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an update 
that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work at all and 
not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I would imagine 
this will impact many schools and other educational institutions as well who 
will rely on having access to this app at least for the remainder of the school 
year.
Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive feedback.
 
Grant Hardy
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Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Michael Irons]

Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with voice dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase prices or make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do need to do or have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t make any money for anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d all be better served if we could look for something that does the same things as voice dream reader and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. It just sounds like the people that work with voice dream reader are going to do whatever they’re going to do and they’re not willing to, or able to change their minds.  Just trying to find an alternative would be a lot more productive for everybody than just talking about not being able to use voice dream reader. I’m just saying all this whatever it’s worth. For all I know it may not be worth anything not even a plug penny or a plug nickel. Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:







I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to increase the price for their app or to charge something for a previously free app or to switch to a subscription model then that is entirely
 their decision. 
 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
On Behalf Of Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

 

Hey guys,


 


If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if it violates any
 developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. The nature of how the update was released also didn't give users any warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned in
 the release notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and if enough people file reports then they may act upon it.


 


I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was handled.


 


I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an update that disables
 previously purchased licenses from continuing to work at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I would imagine this will impact many schools and other educational institutions as well who will rely on having access to this app
 at least for the remainder of the school year.


Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive feedback.


 


Grant Hardy

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caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
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RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

I do suggest if you have the .60 cents you subscribe to living Blindfully plus 
and listen to the podcast.  I do think the Voicedream cares and values our 
feedback.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 12:55 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Cc: siegh...@live.ca
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hello Sieghard,
 
Developer guideline 3.1.2(a) Permissible uses, states, in part:
 
If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, 
you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already 
paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased a “full game 
unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a subscription 
model for new customers.
 
Source: 
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
 
Do you not think this applies? If not, what would stop me from selling you an 
app for $99 then a couple months later stating that I am disabling your 
purchase and switching to a subscription-only model? Are all perpetual 
purchases subject to being disabled then?
 
There is also a guideline about undocumented functionality not being permitted. 
The notice that the app is switching to a subscription-only model starting May 
1st arrived after installing an update, and that caveat was not mentioned as a 
"feature" for that update. Thus, I think that guideline may apply as well.
 
Thanks,functionality:
 




Grant Hardy
 
 
On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 4:46 PM Sieghard Weitzel mailto:siegh...@live.ca> > wrote:
I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to increase 
the price for their app or to charge something for a previously free app or to 
switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their decision. 
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Grant Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hey guys,
 
If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for the 
app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please consider 
reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if it violates 
any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: selling lifetime 
licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. The nature of how the 
update was released also didn't give users any warning or opt-out, as the new 
deadline wasn't mentioned in the release notes. I think Apple uses these for 
internal purposes, and if enough people file reports then they may act upon it.
 
I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the upcoming 
disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was handled.
 
I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription 
route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a tough 
world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an update 
that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work at all and 
not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I would imagine 
this will impact many schools and other educational institutions as well who 
will rely on having access to this app at least for the remainder of the school 
year.
Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive feedback.
 
Grant Hardy
-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> 
 
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Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Ivan Icin]

While this may be correct, I don't think that you can do much before they 
actually disable the feature. Chances are that Apple will react to blog 
posts and emails between the customer and app provider aren't that big as I 
don't think that any of those is regulated by App Store policies.

On Saturday, March 30, 2024 at 5:55:18 AM UTC+1 Grant Hardy wrote:

> Hello Sieghard,
>
> Developer guideline 3.1.2(a) Permissible uses, states, in part:
>
> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business 
> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users 
> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already 
> purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you 
> introduce a subscription model for new customers.
>
> Source: 
> https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
>
> Do you not think this applies? If not, what would stop me from selling you 
> an app for $99 then a couple months later stating that I am disabling your 
> purchase and switching to a subscription-only model? Are all perpetual 
> purchases subject to being disabled then?
>
> There is also a guideline about undocumented functionality not being 
> permitted. The notice that the app is switching to a subscription-only 
> model starting May 1st arrived after installing an update, and that caveat 
> was not mentioned as a "feature" for that update. Thus, I think that 
> guideline may apply as well.
>
> Thanks,functionality:
>
>
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 4:46 PM Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
>
>> I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to 
>> increase the price for their app or to charge something for a previously 
>> free app or to switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their 
>> decision. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* vip...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of 
>> *Grant 
>> Hardy
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
>> *To:* vip...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hey guys,
>>
>>  
>>
>> If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for 
>> the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please 
>> consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if 
>> it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: 
>> selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. 
>> The nature of how the update was released also didn't give users any 
>> warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned in the release 
>> notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and if enough people 
>> file reports then they may act upon it.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the 
>> upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was 
>> handled.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription 
>> route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a 
>> tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an 
>> update that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work 
>> at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I 
>> would imagine this will impact many schools and other educational 
>> institutions as well who will rely on having access to this app at least 
>> for the remainder of the school year.
>>
>> Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive 
>> feedback.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Grant Hardy
>>
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
>> list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> cara...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/vip...@googlegroups.com/ 
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/>
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "VIPhone" group.
>> To u

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hello Sieghard,

Developer guideline 3.1.2(a) Permissible uses, states, in part:

If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business
model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users
have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already
purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you
introduce a subscription model for new customers.

Source:
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

Do you not think this applies? If not, what would stop me from selling you
an app for $99 then a couple months later stating that I am disabling your
purchase and switching to a subscription-only model? Are all perpetual
purchases subject to being disabled then?

There is also a guideline about undocumented functionality not being
permitted. The notice that the app is switching to a subscription-only
model starting May 1st arrived after installing an update, and that caveat
was not mentioned as a "feature" for that update. Thus, I think that
guideline may apply as well.

Thanks,functionality:



Grant Hardy


On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 4:46 PM Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:

> I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to
> increase the price for their app or to charge something for a previously
> free app or to switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their
> decision.
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for
> the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please
> consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if
> it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would:
> selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them.
> The nature of how the update was released also didn't give users any
> warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned in the release
> notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and if enough people
> file reports then they may act upon it.
>
>
>
> I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the
> upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was
> handled.
>
>
>
> I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription
> route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a
> tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an
> update that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work
> at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I
> would imagine this will impact many schools and other educational
> institutions as well who will rely on having access to this app at least
> for the remainder of the school year.
>
> Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive
> feedback.
>
>
>
> Grant Hardy
>
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RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Sieghard Weitzel]

I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to increase 
the price for their app or to charge something for a previously free app or to 
switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their decision.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

Hey guys,

If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for the 
app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please consider 
reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if it violates 
any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: selling lifetime 
licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. The nature of how the 
update was released also didn't give users any warning or opt-out, as the new 
deadline wasn't mentioned in the release notes. I think Apple uses these for 
internal purposes, and if enough people file reports then they may act upon it.

I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the upcoming 
disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was handled.

I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription 
route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a tough 
world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an update 
that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work at all and 
not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I would imagine 
this will impact many schools and other educational institutions as well who 
will rely on having access to this app at least for the remainder of the school 
year.
Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive feedback.

Grant Hardy
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Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hi again,

Apologies, but after listening to Jonathan's take on this, it seems like
support is advising users that this week's update was only a warning, and
that the update which removes functionality won't be released until May. In
that case, I apologize for the misinformation and it may be better to wait
and see what happens and whether folks are able to hold off on that update.
Apologies again!

Grant Hardy


On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 10:17 PM Grant Hardy  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for
> the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please
> consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if
> it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would:
> selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them.
> The nature of how the update was released also didn't give users any
> warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned in the release
> notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and if enough people
> file reports then they may act upon it.
>
> I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the
> upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was
> handled.
>
> I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription
> route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a
> tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an
> update that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work
> at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I
> would imagine this will impact many schools and other educational
> institutions as well who will rely on having access to this app at least
> for the remainder of the school year.
> Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive
> feedback.
>
> Grant Hardy
>

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Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey guys,

If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for
the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please
consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if
it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would:
selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them.
The nature of how the update was released also didn't give users any
warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned in the release
notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and if enough people
file reports then they may act upon it.

I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the
upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was
handled.

I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription
route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a
tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an
update that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work
at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I
would imagine this will impact many schools and other educational
institutions as well who will rely on having access to this app at least
for the remainder of the school year.
Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive
feedback.

Grant Hardy

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Re: Voice Dream Reader and change in the price?

[Mary Otten]

I saw that notice too, double tap, nothing.Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 25, 2024, at 1:16 PM, leobado1...@gmail.com wrote:Hi everyone. I updated VDR few minutes ago, and when I launched the app, a banner or something of that kind came up saying something about price change plus learn more, so I tried to tap into learn more but the banner gone away. Does anyone know better? Cheers,Leo Bado. I have found both freedom of loneliness and the safety from being understood, for those who understand us enslave something in us.Khalil Gibran. 



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Voice Dream Reader and change in the price?

[leobado1982]

Hi everyone. I updated VDR few minutes ago, and when I launched the app, a
banner or something of that kind came up saying something about price change
plus learn more, so I tried to tap into learn more but the banner gone away.
Does anyone know better?

 

Cheers,

Leo Bado.

 

I have found both freedom of loneliness and the safety from being
understood, for those who understand us enslave something in us.

Khalil Gibran.

 

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Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

[Jody ianuzzi]

You could always call Bookshare at (650) 352-0198  I might be aware of the problem and can helpJODYTo Boldly Go   thunderwalker...@gmail.com "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS  Erik WeihenmayerOn Feb 6, 2024, at 10:53 AM, Richard Turner  wrote:I don’t remember if you already said, but have you made sure your internet connection is solid? I will pass your message along to the developer but if you can, I’d go into the settings in Voice Dream and email the support through there as well. I cannot recommend any other apps.  I’m not at all impressed with Bookshare’s own reader. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400  From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kerry MacdonaldSent: Tuesday, February 6, 2024 7:36 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books Hi, so I have tried all of the suggestions on here including updating. For a few days it seemed to start to work a little bit better, but then this morning I open the app and guess what? It stopped downloading stuff again and it keeps just saying unavailable. I just don’t get it. I have tried everything I can think of, but it only changes temporarily and then goes back to resuming its original behavior. I have been using this app for 10 years this April and I am so sad that it is becoming so difficult to use it. Are there any alternative apps with good text to speech engines that do support books share? The only other one I know of is EasyReader. I don’t like that as much as I don’t care for reading books with the Apple voices.  Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Also, I have reached out to this group to their support and never get an email back from them. I hope this all gets better soon.  Kerry Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 2, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:  Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released a few days ago?   Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400  -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/009d01da55ee%2408e42dc0%241aac8940%24%40comcast.net.-- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/33E02593-D52F-4B72-A948-7AF62575BBEE%40gmail.com.



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Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

[Kerry Macdonald]

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes that is how I emailed them and have not heard back from them yet. Hopefully this issue will be fixed soon. Thanks so much.KerrySent from my iPhoneOn Feb 6, 2024, at 10:53 AM, Richard Turner  wrote:I don’t remember if you already said, but have you made sure your internet connection is solid? I will pass your message along to the developer but if you can, I’d go into the settings in Voice Dream and email the support through there as well. I cannot recommend any other apps.  I’m not at all impressed with Bookshare’s own reader. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400  From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kerry MacdonaldSent: Tuesday, February 6, 2024 7:36 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books Hi, so I have tried all of the suggestions on here including updating. For a few days it seemed to start to work a little bit better, but then this morning I open the app and guess what? It stopped downloading stuff again and it keeps just saying unavailable. I just don’t get it. I have tried everything I can think of, but it only changes temporarily and then goes back to resuming its original behavior. I have been using this app for 10 years this April and I am so sad that it is becoming so difficult to use it. Are there any alternative apps with good text to speech engines that do support books share? The only other one I know of is EasyReader. I don’t like that as much as I don’t care for reading books with the Apple voices.  Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Also, I have reached out to this group to their support and never get an email back from them. I hope this all gets better soon.  Kerry Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 2, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote:  Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released a few days ago?   Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400  -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/009d01da55ee%2408e42dc0%241aac8940%24%40comcast.net.-- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/33E02593-D52F-4B72-A948-7AF62575BBEE%40gmail.com.



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RE: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

[Richard Turner]

I don’t remember if you already said, but have you made sure your internet 
connection is solid?

 

I will pass your message along to the developer but if you can, I’d go into the 
settings in Voice Dream and email the support through there as well.

 

I cannot recommend any other apps.  I’m not at all impressed with Bookshare’s 
own reader.

 

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA

“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”

-- Cedrick Bridgeforth

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com/> https://www.turner42.com/

 

Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), 

JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kerry 
Macdonald
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2024 7:36 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

 

Hi, so I have tried all of the suggestions on here including updating. For a 
few days it seemed to start to work a little bit better, but then this morning 
I open the app and guess what? It stopped downloading stuff again and it keeps 
just saying unavailable. I just don’t get it. I have tried everything I can 
think of, but it only changes temporarily and then goes back to resuming its 
original behavior. I have been using this app for 10 years this April and I am 
so sad that it is becoming so difficult to use it. Are there any alternative 
apps with good text to speech engines that do support books share? The only 
other one I know of is EasyReader. I don’t like that as much as I don’t care 
for reading books with the Apple voices.  Thanks for all the help and 
suggestions. Also, I have reached out to this group to their support and never 
get an email back from them. I hope this all gets better soon.

 

 

Kerry

 

Sent from my iPhone





On Feb 2, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:



 

 

Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released a 
few days ago?

 

 

 

Richard, USA

“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”

-- Cedrick Bridgeforth

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com/> https://www.turner42.com/

 

Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), 

JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400

 

 

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Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

[Kerry Macdonald]

Hi, so I have tried all of the suggestions on here including updating. For a few days it seemed to start to work a little bit better, but then this morning I open the app and guess what? It stopped downloading stuff again and it keeps just saying unavailable. I just don’t get it. I have tried everything I can think of, but it only changes temporarily and then goes back to resuming its original behavior. I have been using this app for 10 years this April and I am so sad that it is becoming so difficult to use it. Are there any alternative apps with good text to speech engines that do support books share? The only other one I know of is EasyReader. I don’t like that as much as I don’t care for reading books with the Apple voices.  Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Also, I have reached out to this group to their support and never get an email back from them. I hope this all gets better soon.KerrySent from my iPhoneOn Feb 2, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Richard Turner  wrote:  Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released a few days ago?   Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400  



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RE: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

[Richard Turner]

Thanks Mary and Harry.

I forwarded your messages to Applause Group and this is what he said:

Thanks, Richard. We have some more improvements to sync coming on Monday as 
well!

 

I know they are trying to subscribe to this group so they can more easily see 
what folks are saying.  I directed them to Mark Taylor to try and make that 
happen.

 

Later,

Richard, USA

“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”

-- Cedrick Bridgeforth

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com/> https://www.turner42.com/

 

Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), 

JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2024 10:35 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

 

I just downloaded a book with the latest Voice Dream reader, and I’m happy to 
report that it instantly appeared in my library on my iPad, just as it should. 
I have yet to try to sync my iPhone library, but I suppose that’s the next stop 
on this journey.

Mary

 

Sent from my iPhone





On Feb 2, 2024, at 7:40 AM, Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote:



 

 

Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released a 
few days ago?

 

 

 

Richard, USA

“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it 
on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”

-- Cedrick Bridgeforth

 

My web site:  <https://www.turner42.com/> https://www.turner42.com/

 

Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), 

JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400

 

 

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Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

[Mary Otten]

I just downloaded a book with the latest Voice Dream reader, and I’m happy to report that it instantly appeared in my library on my iPad, just as it should. I have yet to try to sync my iPhone library, but I suppose that’s the next stop on this journey.MarySent from my iPhoneOn Feb 2, 2024, at 7:40 AM, Richard Turner  wrote:  Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released a few days ago?   Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400  



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Re: About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

['Harry Bell' via VIPhone]

yes! When I share from Safari article now appears reliably in voice Dream Reede. - whereas I could not see any of my library in iPad app before the update and downloaded articles from Safari would sometimes simply be grayed out and impossible to open. So,  hurrah for the new update!HarryOn 2 Feb 2024, at 15:40, Richard Turner  wrote:  Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released a few days ago?   Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400  



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About Voice Dream Reader and downloading books

[Richard Turner]

 

 

Has anyone who had issues found any improvement in the update they released
a few days ago?

 

 

 

Richard, USA

"Grandma always told us, "Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores
it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get
it."

-- Cedrick Bridgeforth

 

My web site:   https://www.turner42.com/

 

Microsoft Windows 11 Core Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.2715), 

JAWS version 2024.2310.70.400

 

 

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Voice Dream Reader , support for more audio files!

[leobado1982]

Hey folks, as you may have noticed, two consecutive releases for VDR came
out in the last couple of days. Well, in a nutshell, VDR now supports M4B
files! Isn't it great? I love this app.

 

Cheers,

Leo Bado.

 

I have found both freedom of loneliness and the safety from being
understood, for those who understand us enslave something in us.

Khalil Gibran.

 

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RE: Voice Dream Reader on a different platform

[Richard Turner]

I just heard back from the Applause Group, there is no Windows version.  Any 
link claiming to be so is a scam.

Delete it.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 7:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader on a different platform

 

Just in case, I just wrote my contact at Applause Group.  I’ll respond on the 
list once I have official word.

You no doubt saw my note to the list saying there isn’t one, but I figured I 
should make sure.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
leobado1...@gmail.com <mailto:leobado1...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 5:02 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Voice Dream Reader on a different platform

 

Hello. I  got a question. Is VDR available for Windows PC’s? I know for sure it 
is available for MAC, but I’m surprised that someone on a different list sent a 
link where VDR it’s been purportedly offered for Windows.  I’m posting here the 
link, but it is a domain in Spain by which you will find the language to be 
Spanish. Is this real or a scam? Does anybody know the e-mail address of the 
company that now owns  VDR? I know the support e-mail address, but I  don’t 
think that the developer behind the IOS version knows better than anyone else.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."

Elbert Hubbard

 

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RE: Voice Dream Reader on a different platform

[Richard Turner]

Just in case, I just wrote my contact at Applause Group.  I’ll respond on the 
list once I have official word.

You no doubt saw my note to the list saying there isn’t one, but I figured I 
should make sure.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
leobado1...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 5:02 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Voice Dream Reader on a different platform

 

Hello. I  got a question. Is VDR available for Windows PC’s? I know for sure it 
is available for MAC, but I’m surprised that someone on a different list sent a 
link where VDR it’s been purportedly offered for Windows.  I’m posting here the 
link, but it is a domain in Spain by which you will find the language to be 
Spanish. Is this real or a scam? Does anybody know the e-mail address of the 
company that now owns  VDR? I know the support e-mail address, but I  don’t 
think that the developer behind the IOS version knows better than anyone else.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."

Elbert Hubbard

 

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Re: Voice Dream Reader on a different platform

[Devin Prater]

No, sorry.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Nov 10, 2023, at 7:01 AM, leobado1...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hello. I  got a question. Is VDR available for Windows PC’s? I know for sure 
> it is available for MAC, but I’m surprised that someone on a different list 
> sent a link where VDR it’s been purportedly offered for Windows.  I’m posting 
> here the link, but it is a domain in Spain by which you will find the 
> language to be Spanish. Is this real or a scam? Does anybody know the e-mail 
> address of the company that now owns  VDR? I know the support e-mail address, 
> but I  don’t think that the developer behind the IOS version knows better 
> than anyone else.
>  
>  
> Best,
> Leo Bado
>  
> "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
> Elbert Hubbard
>  
> 
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> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> --- 
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>  
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Voice Dream Reader on a different platform

[leobado1982]

Hello. I  got a question. Is VDR available for Windows PC's? I know for sure
it is available for MAC, but I'm surprised that someone on a different list
sent a link where VDR it's been purportedly offered for Windows.  I'm
posting here the link, but it is a domain in Spain by which you will find
the language to be Spanish. Is this real or a scam? Does anybody know the
e-mail address of the company that now owns  VDR? I know the support e-mail
address, but I  don't think that the developer behind the IOS version knows
better than anyone else.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."

Elbert Hubbard

 

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Re: Voice Dream Reader

[Tom Lange]

oh yes, I forgot about that little trick. Thanks Leo I appreciate it. It worked.

> On Nov 4, 2023, at 3:19 PM, leobado1...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi, I don't think that makes a difference because I updated for the second 
> time this day and I'm in Costa Rica. Do the following, right on the screen 
> where the updates are supposed to show up, perform the gesture of swiping 
> down with three fingers. Now check again.
> 
> Best,
> Leo Bado
> 
> "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
> Elbert Hubbard
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Tom 
> Lange
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 3:59 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> hi, I updated 2 version 4.2.4, I think, last Monday, October 30, and haven’t 
> seen an update in the App Store since. Can you send me the link for the most 
> current version? Thanks. By the way I’m in Southern California. Just in case 
> that makes any difference.
> 
> 
>> On Nov 4, 2023, at 2:10 PM, Richard Turner  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, that was fast.
>> I just rechecked for updates and Voice Dream 4.23.3 is now there and it 
>> says, "fix a bug that would prevent the app from opening."
>> For those who have felt like the Applause Group have not been very 
>> responsive, I hope this helps folks realize they are working very hard to 
>> improve the app.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Richard, USA.
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” 
>>  --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
>> 
>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Richard Turner
>> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 2:07 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader
>> 
>> I heard back from the developer at Applause Group concerning Voice Dream 
>> Reader.
>> 
>> There will be, two updates today.
>> One: Which I just found in the app store is, 4.23.2 was to fix some slowness 
>> for users with lots of files.
>> 
>> Just released to Apple is another, 4.23.3 that fixes the issue with iCloud.  
>> I don't see that one yet in the app store, but I suspect it will be there 
>> later today or in a day or two.  I don't know how long it takes Apple to 
>> pass updates on to the app store.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Richard, USA.
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” 
>>  --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
>> 
>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> leobado1...@gmail.com
>> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 9:35 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader
>> 
>> Hi, I also had my library set not to sync using iCloud, running the last 
>> version of IOS, and never experienced a similar problem as I said in a 
>> different thread. Additionally, other users reporting this annoying issue 
>> were using different iPhones.. By the way, nobody is saying that VDR isn't 
>> great. If you didn't experience this, good for you.  As I said, I deleted 
>> and reinstalled the app, and it got fixed, but firstly I tried updating VDr 
>> to the version that was released today with no luck. As far as I'm 
>> concerned, it is not a device-specific problem, it is not the IOS version, 
>> and in my case, I can flatly sate that it isn't a matter of corrupted data 
>> because I set up my iPhone as New in late September, and performed a clean 
>> installation of VDR. Besides, I'm a heavy user, meaning that on Thursday 
>> night the app was running perfectly fine, and the problem started just after 
>> yesterday's update and remained even after today's release.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Leo Bado
>> 
>> "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
>> Elbert Hubbard
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>> mk...

RE: Voice Dream Reader

[leobado1982]

Hi, I don't think that makes a difference because I updated for the second time 
this day and I'm in Costa Rica. Do the following, right on the screen where the 
updates are supposed to show up, perform the gesture of swiping down with three 
fingers. Now check again.

Best,
 Leo Bado

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Tom Lange
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 3:59 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Voice Dream Reader

hi, I updated 2 version 4.2.4, I think, last Monday, October 30, and haven’t 
seen an update in the App Store since. Can you send me the link for the most 
current version? Thanks. By the way I’m in Southern California. Just in case 
that makes any difference.


> On Nov 4, 2023, at 2:10 PM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, that was fast.
> I just rechecked for updates and Voice Dream 4.23.3 is now there and it says, 
> "fix a bug that would prevent the app from opening."
> For those who have felt like the Applause Group have not been very 
> responsive, I hope this helps folks realize they are working very hard to 
> improve the app.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Richard Turner
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 2:07 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> I heard back from the developer at Applause Group concerning Voice Dream 
> Reader.
> 
> There will be, two updates today.
> One: Which I just found in the app store is, 4.23.2 was to fix some slowness 
> for users with lots of files.
> 
> Just released to Apple is another, 4.23.3 that fixes the issue with iCloud.  
> I don't see that one yet in the app store, but I suspect it will be there 
> later today or in a day or two.  I don't know how long it takes Apple to pass 
> updates on to the app store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> leobado1...@gmail.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 9:35 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> Hi, I also had my library set not to sync using iCloud, running the last 
> version of IOS, and never experienced a similar problem as I said in a 
> different thread. Additionally, other users reporting this annoying issue 
> were using different iPhones.. By the way, nobody is saying that VDR isn't 
> great. If you didn't experience this, good for you.  As I said, I deleted and 
> reinstalled the app, and it got fixed, but firstly I tried updating VDr to 
> the version that was released today with no luck. As far as I'm concerned, it 
> is not a device-specific problem, it is not the IOS version, and in my case, 
> I can flatly sate that it isn't a matter of corrupted data because I set up 
> my iPhone as New in late September, and performed a clean installation of 
> VDR. Besides, I'm a heavy user, meaning that on Thursday night the app was 
> running perfectly fine, and the problem started just after yesterday's update 
> and remained even after today's release.
> 
> Best,
> Leo Bado
> 
> "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
> Elbert Hubbard
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/02ec01da0f3c%24db7281e0%24925785a0%24%40gmail.com.
&

RE: Voice Dream Reader

[leobado1982]

Yah, admittedly they are working efficiently. On a different subject, I noticed 
until today that the speed rate is much more better now for Eloquence, which is 
my default voice. 

Best,
 Leo Bado

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader

Well, that was fast.
I just rechecked for updates and Voice Dream 4.23.3 is now there and it says, 
"fix a bug that would prevent the app from opening."
For those who have felt like the Applause Group have not been very responsive, 
I hope this helps folks realize they are working very hard to improve the app.




Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 2:07 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader

I heard back from the developer at Applause Group concerning Voice Dream Reader.

There will be, two updates today.
One: Which I just found in the app store is, 4.23.2 was to fix some slowness 
for users with lots of files.

Just released to Apple is another, 4.23.3 that fixes the issue with iCloud.  I 
don't see that one yet in the app store, but I suspect it will be there later 
today or in a day or two.  I don't know how long it takes Apple to pass updates 
on to the app store.







Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
leobado1...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 9:35 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader

Hi, I also had my library set not to sync using iCloud, running the last 
version of IOS, and never experienced a similar problem as I said in a 
different thread. Additionally, other users reporting this annoying issue were 
using different iPhones.. By the way, nobody is saying that VDR isn't great. If 
you didn't experience this, good for you.  As I said, I deleted and reinstalled 
the app, and it got fixed, but firstly I tried updating VDr to the version that 
was released today with no luck. As far as I'm concerned, it is not a 
device-specific problem, it is not the IOS version, and in my case, I can 
flatly sate that it isn't a matter of corrupted data because I set up my iPhone 
as New in late September, and performed a clean installation of VDR. Besides, 
I'm a heavy user, meaning that on Thursday night the app was running perfectly 
fine, and the problem started just after yesterday's update and remained even 
after today's release.

Best,
 Leo Bado

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard


-- 
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Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Voice Dream Reader

[Tom Lange]

hi, I updated 2 version 4.2.4, I think, last Monday, October 30, and haven’t 
seen an update in the App Store since. Can you send me the link for the most 
current version? Thanks. By the way I’m in Southern California. Just in case 
that makes any difference.


> On Nov 4, 2023, at 2:10 PM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, that was fast.
> I just rechecked for updates and Voice Dream 4.23.3 is now there and it says, 
> "fix a bug that would prevent the app from opening."
> For those who have felt like the Applause Group have not been very 
> responsive, I hope this helps folks realize they are working very hard to 
> improve the app.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Richard Turner
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 2:07 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> I heard back from the developer at Applause Group concerning Voice Dream 
> Reader.
> 
> There will be, two updates today.
> One: Which I just found in the app store is, 4.23.2 was to fix some slowness 
> for users with lots of files.
> 
> Just released to Apple is another, 4.23.3 that fixes the issue with iCloud.  
> I don't see that one yet in the app store, but I suspect it will be there 
> later today or in a day or two.  I don't know how long it takes Apple to pass 
> updates on to the app store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> leobado1...@gmail.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 9:35 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> Hi, I also had my library set not to sync using iCloud, running the last 
> version of IOS, and never experienced a similar problem as I said in a 
> different thread. Additionally, other users reporting this annoying issue 
> were using different iPhones.. By the way, nobody is saying that VDR isn't 
> great. If you didn't experience this, good for you.  As I said, I deleted and 
> reinstalled the app, and it got fixed, but firstly I tried updating VDr to 
> the version that was released today with no luck. As far as I'm concerned, it 
> is not a device-specific problem, it is not the IOS version, and in my case, 
> I can flatly sate that it isn't a matter of corrupted data because I set up 
> my iPhone as New in late September, and performed a clean installation of 
> VDR. Besides, I'm a heavy user, meaning that on Thursday night the app was 
> running perfectly fine, and the problem started just after yesterday's update 
> and remained even after today's release.
> 
> Best,
> Leo Bado
> 
> "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
> Elbert Hubbard
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/02ec01da0f3c%24db7281e0%24925785a0%24%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be search

RE: Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

Well, that was fast.
I just rechecked for updates and Voice Dream 4.23.3 is now there and it says, 
"fix a bug that would prevent the app from opening."
For those who have felt like the Applause Group have not been very responsive, 
I hope this helps folks realize they are working very hard to improve the app.




Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 2:07 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader

I heard back from the developer at Applause Group concerning Voice Dream Reader.

There will be, two updates today.
One: Which I just found in the app store is, 4.23.2 was to fix some slowness 
for users with lots of files.

Just released to Apple is another, 4.23.3 that fixes the issue with iCloud.  I 
don't see that one yet in the app store, but I suspect it will be there later 
today or in a day or two.  I don't know how long it takes Apple to pass updates 
on to the app store.







Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
leobado1...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 9:35 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader

Hi, I also had my library set not to sync using iCloud, running the last 
version of IOS, and never experienced a similar problem as I said in a 
different thread. Additionally, other users reporting this annoying issue were 
using different iPhones.. By the way, nobody is saying that VDR isn't great. If 
you didn't experience this, good for you.  As I said, I deleted and reinstalled 
the app, and it got fixed, but firstly I tried updating VDr to the version that 
was released today with no luck. As far as I'm concerned, it is not a 
device-specific problem, it is not the IOS version, and in my case, I can 
flatly sate that it isn't a matter of corrupted data because I set up my iPhone 
as New in late September, and performed a clean installation of VDR. Besides, 
I'm a heavy user, meaning that on Thursday night the app was running perfectly 
fine, and the problem started just after yesterday's update and remained even 
after today's release.

Best,
 Leo Bado

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard


-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
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Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara a

RE: Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

I heard back from the developer at Applause Group concerning Voice Dream Reader.

There will be, two updates today.
One: Which I just found in the app store is, 4.23.2 was to fix some slowness 
for users with lots of files.

Just released to Apple is another, 4.23.3 that fixes the issue with iCloud.  I 
don't see that one yet in the app store, but I suspect it will be there later 
today or in a day or two.  I don't know how long it takes Apple to pass updates 
on to the app store.







Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
leobado1...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 9:35 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Voice Dream Reader

Hi, I also had my library set not to sync using iCloud, running the last 
version of IOS, and never experienced a similar problem as I said in a 
different thread. Additionally, other users reporting this annoying issue were 
using different iPhones.. By the way, nobody is saying that VDR isn't great. If 
you didn't experience this, good for you.  As I said, I deleted and reinstalled 
the app, and it got fixed, but firstly I tried updating VDr to the version that 
was released today with no luck. As far as I'm concerned, it is not a 
device-specific problem, it is not the IOS version, and in my case, I can 
flatly sate that it isn't a matter of corrupted data because I set up my iPhone 
as New in late September, and performed a clean installation of VDR. Besides, 
I'm a heavy user, meaning that on Thursday night the app was running perfectly 
fine, and the problem started just after yesterday's update and remained even 
after today's release.

Best,
 Leo Bado

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard


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Re: Voice Dream Reader

[pegkane52]

Hi, I am using the latest iOS version and until recently it has been quite some 
time since I backed up my Voice Dream reader books.
Peggy Sent from my i phone☺️

> On Nov 4, 2023, at 11:46 AM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> Agreed Alan, I wonder if it is because of using an older iOS that folks are 
> having issues.
> Time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Alan 
> Lemly
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 8:38 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> Richard,
> 
> I know this isn't what you asked but I have my library set to not sync using 
> iCloud on my iPhone 13 Mini running iOS 17.1 and I haven't experienced any of 
> the Voice Dream Reader issues posted with any of the most recent versions.
> 
> I would encourage all Voice Dream users to go into settings and add the most 
> recent user guide to their library and invest the 20 plus minutes to read it. 
> You might be surprised with all the capabilities of the more recent versions 
> of Voice Dream and I expect you'll learn a good deal.
> 
> Alan Lemly
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 4, 2023, at 9:55 AM, Richard Turner  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know if you 
>> have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve this bug this 
>> morning.
>> Let me know and I will pass it along.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Richard, USA.
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” 
>>  --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
>> 
>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jan 
>> Stirbens
>> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Voice Dream Reader
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am 
>> using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
>> When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to the 
>> app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher, and 
>> rebooted my phone, but still no success.
>> Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Jan
>> 
>> --
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>> 
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
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RE: Voice Dream Reader

[leobado1982]

Hi, I also had my library set not to sync using iCloud, running the last 
version of IOS, and never experienced a similar problem as I said in a 
different thread. Additionally, other users reporting this annoying issue were 
using different iPhones.. By the way, nobody is saying that VDR isn't great. If 
you didn't experience this, good for you.  As I said, I deleted and reinstalled 
the app, and it got fixed, but firstly I tried updating VDr to the version that 
was released today with no luck. As far as I'm concerned, it is not a 
device-specific problem, it is not the IOS version, and in my case, I can 
flatly sate that it isn't a matter of corrupted data because I set up my iPhone 
as New in late September, and performed a clean installation of VDR. Besides, 
I'm a heavy user, meaning that on Thursday night the app was running perfectly 
fine, and the problem started just after yesterday's update and remained even 
after today's release.

Best,
 Leo Bado

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard


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Re: Voice Dream Reader

[Joshua Hendrickson]

I'm using IOS 17.1 the latest version.

On 11/4/23, Richard Turner  wrote:
> Joshua, which iOS version are you using?
>
>
>
>
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”
>  --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
> Joshua Hendrickson
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 8:55 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Voice Dream Reader
>
> I also have my library set not to sync to iCloud in voice dream reader and I
> am also experiencing no problems.  Voice dream reader is totally awesome.
>
> On 11/4/23, Alan Lemly  wrote:
>> Richard,
>>
>> I know this isn't what you asked but I have my library set to not sync
>> using iCloud on my iPhone 13 Mini running iOS 17.1 and I haven't
>> experienced any of the Voice Dream Reader issues posted with any of
>> the most recent versions.
>>
>> I would encourage all Voice Dream users to go into settings and add
>> the most recent user guide to their library and invest the 20 plus
>> minutes to read it. You might be surprised with all the capabilities
>> of the more recent versions of Voice Dream and I expect you'll learn a
>> good deal.
>>
>> Alan Lemly
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 4, 2023, at 9:55 AM, Richard Turner
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know
>>> if you have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve
>>> this bug this morning.
>>> Let me know and I will pass it along.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard, USA.
>>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch
>>> with it.”  --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in
>>> the Universe
>>>
>>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf
>>> Of Jan Stirbens
>>> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Voice Dream Reader
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.
>>> I am using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
>>> When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According
>>> to the app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app
>>> switcher, and rebooted my phone, but still no success.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V
>>> iPhone list.
>>>
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/B299DAE2-C3C5-4591-AFB5-E3E904060B35%40gmail.com.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> iPhone list.
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>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You r

RE: Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

Joshua, which iOS version are you using?




Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Joshua 
Hendrickson
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 8:55 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Voice Dream Reader

I also have my library set not to sync to iCloud in voice dream reader and I am 
also experiencing no problems.  Voice dream reader is totally awesome.

On 11/4/23, Alan Lemly  wrote:
> Richard,
>
> I know this isn't what you asked but I have my library set to not sync 
> using iCloud on my iPhone 13 Mini running iOS 17.1 and I haven't 
> experienced any of the Voice Dream Reader issues posted with any of 
> the most recent versions.
>
> I would encourage all Voice Dream users to go into settings and add 
> the most recent user guide to their library and invest the 20 plus 
> minutes to read it. You might be surprised with all the capabilities 
> of the more recent versions of Voice Dream and I expect you'll learn a good 
> deal.
>
> Alan Lemly
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 4, 2023, at 9:55 AM, Richard Turner 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know 
>> if you have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve 
>> this bug this morning.
>> Let me know and I will pass it along.
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard, USA.
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
>> with it.”  --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in 
>> the Universe
>>
>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf 
>> Of Jan Stirbens
>> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Voice Dream Reader
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  
>> I am using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
>> When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According 
>> to the app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app 
>> switcher, and rebooted my phone, but still no success.
>> Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V 
>> iPhone list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/B299DAE2-C3C5-4591-AFB5-E3E904060B35%40gmail.com.
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V 
>> iPhone list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
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>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or conc

Re: Voice Dream Reader

[Joshua Hendrickson]

I also have my library set not to sync to iCloud in voice dream reader
and I am also experiencing no problems.  Voice dream reader is totally
awesome.

On 11/4/23, Alan Lemly  wrote:
> Richard,
>
> I know this isn't what you asked but I have my library set to not sync using
> iCloud on my iPhone 13 Mini running iOS 17.1 and I haven't experienced any
> of the Voice Dream Reader issues posted with any of the most recent
> versions.
>
> I would encourage all Voice Dream users to go into settings and add the most
> recent user guide to their library and invest the 20 plus minutes to read
> it. You might be surprised with all the capabilities of the more recent
> versions of Voice Dream and I expect you'll learn a good deal.
>
> Alan Lemly
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 4, 2023, at 9:55 AM, Richard Turner 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know if
>> you have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve this bug
>> this morning.
>> Let me know and I will pass it along.
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard, USA.
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with
>> it.”  --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the
>> Universe
>>
>> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jan
>> Stirbens
>> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Voice Dream Reader
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am
>> using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
>> When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to
>> the app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher,
>> and rebooted my phone, but still no success.
>> Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
>> list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/B299DAE2-C3C5-4591-AFB5-E3E904060B35%40gmail.com.
>>
>> --
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>> list.
>>
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>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
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>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/

RE: Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

Agreed Alan, I wonder if it is because of using an older iOS that folks are 
having issues.
Time will tell.




Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Alan 
Lemly
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 8:38 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Voice Dream Reader

Richard, 

I know this isn't what you asked but I have my library set to not sync using 
iCloud on my iPhone 13 Mini running iOS 17.1 and I haven't experienced any of 
the Voice Dream Reader issues posted with any of the most recent versions. 

I would encourage all Voice Dream users to go into settings and add the most 
recent user guide to their library and invest the 20 plus minutes to read it. 
You might be surprised with all the capabilities of the more recent versions of 
Voice Dream and I expect you'll learn a good deal. 

Alan Lemly 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 4, 2023, at 9:55 AM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know if you 
> have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve this bug this 
> morning.
> Let me know and I will pass it along.
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jan 
> Stirbens
> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am 
> using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
> When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to the 
> app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher, and 
> rebooted my phone, but still no success.
> Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Jan
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
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> 
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Re: Voice Dream Reader

[Alan Lemly]

Richard, 

I know this isn't what you asked but I have my library set to not sync using 
iCloud on my iPhone 13 Mini running iOS 17.1 and I haven't experienced any of 
the Voice Dream Reader issues posted with any of the most recent versions. 

I would encourage all Voice Dream users to go into settings and add the most 
recent user guide to their library and invest the 20 plus minutes to read it. 
You might be surprised with all the capabilities of the more recent versions of 
Voice Dream and I expect you'll learn a good deal. 

Alan Lemly 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 4, 2023, at 9:55 AM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know if you 
> have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve this bug this 
> morning.
> Let me know and I will pass it along.
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jan 
> Stirbens
> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am 
> using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
> When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to the 
> app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher, and 
> rebooted my phone, but still no success.
> Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Jan
> 
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Re: Voice Dream Reader

[pegkane52]

Hi, I had mentioned in a previous message that that was the problem for me. I 
had had iCloud disabled, and I had to enable it in order for me to get Voice 
Dream to work.
Take care.
Peggy Sent from my i phone☺️

> On Nov 4, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know if you 
> have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve this bug this 
> morning.
> Let me know and I will pass it along.
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, USA.
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
> --  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe
> 
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jan 
> Stirbens
> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Voice Dream Reader
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am 
> using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
> When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to the 
> app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher, and 
> rebooted my phone, but still no success.
> Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Jan
> 
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RE: Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

Jan and anyone else experience this bug, the developers want to know if you 
have iCloud disabled?  They are trying very hard to resolve this bug this 
morning.
Let me know and I will pass it along.



Richard, USA.
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.”  
--  Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jan 
Stirbens
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:30 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Voice Dream Reader

Hello,

I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am using 
an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to the 
app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher, and 
rebooted my phone, but still no success.
Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Jan

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RE: Voice Dream Reader refusing to open after today's update.

[leobado1982]

Well, in my case nothing worked except for deleting and reinstalling. I even 
found a new update this morning, but it didn’t make a difference after 
launching it. This is the very first time I got such an issue with VDR, I even 
set up my iPhone as a new device when IOS 17 was released, so it is not like 
data was corrupted.

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."

Elbert Hubbard

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
pegkan...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 5:02 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Voice Dream Reader refusing to open after today's update.

 

Yes, I had the same problem with Voice Dream reader today. The only way I was 
able to get it to respond was to upload all my books to the cloud, which I had 
stopped doing for a while that corrected the problem. Maybe turn off and on any 
downloads that you have given to the cloud and see if that helps. so I was not 
backing Voice Dream reader books to my phone and when I turned it on and back 
them up, it responded as it used to.

Take care. 

Peggy Sent from my i phone☺️





On Nov 3, 2023, at 6:41 PM, leobado1...@gmail.com wrote:



Hello, I installed the update that was released today, but VDR refuses to open. 
I’ve already rebooted my iPhone SE 2020, and relaunched VDR with no luck. Is 
anyone else having this issue?

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."

Elbert Hubbard

 

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RE: Voice Dream Reader

[leobado1982]

That is exactly what is happening to me, you described it in a better way. I'm 
going to try reinstalling the app.

Best,
 Leo Bado

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jan 
Stirbens
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 10:30 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Voice Dream Reader

Hello,

I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am using 
an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to the 
app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher, and 
rebooted my phone, but still no success.
Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Jan

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Re: Voice Dream Reader

[Robert Doc Wright]

I just tried mine and it works on my 10R and and my 13 pro max.
- Original Message - 
From: "Jan Stirbens" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 10:29 PM
Subject: Voice Dream Reader


Hello,

I am also having trouble with voice dream reader after it’s update.  I am 
using an iPhone thirteen mini with version 16.7.2.
When I try to open voice dream, I just get a blank screen.  According to the 
app switcher, voice dream is open.  I closed it in the app switcher, and 
rebooted my phone, but still no success.
Any thoughts or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Jan

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