date:20120120


On 21/01/2012 5:46 PM, Mary Yugo wrote:


On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:33 PM, thorium breeder
mailto:thorium.bree...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I ask the wisdom of the crowd for a sanity check.
Can rossi achieve "do it yourself isotopic separation"?

One of the more far out of Rossi's claims, made clearly and at least
twice in his misnamed blog (JONP), was that he can do (nickel) isotope
separation on the cheap.   Of course, that's immensely unlikely.  He was
asked how he does it and of course he said it was proprietary.  It ranks
up there with the self destruct system and the private homes and
factories which are currently heated by E-cats but of course we can't
see them or talk to the owners.


In the latest video interview, you know the one with the unmoved BBB, 
the BBB that Rossi said was GONE to the customer but later said was 
never was GONE, there is a factor heater just behind the right door of BBB.


A NORMAL LPG BASED SPACE HEATER.

There is no heating in his lab either. What a crock.

Thanks to Dick Smith and Ian Bryce we now know how his scam works. They 
suck in gullible green investors through his licensees doing investor 
presentations. Talks to them via Skype to help the licensee get them 
over the line and signing the cheques. Bet there was a shill or 2 in the 
audience that night, who would sign over fake cheques so as to get the 
others to do likewise and not miss out.


Shaun

Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Shaun Taylor wrote:

>
> Ok Rossi may not be interested in private investors for Leonardo Corp

Well, we don't know that.  He says it but it doesn't mean he didn't take
money secretly already with people who signed NDA's.  For sure, a lot of
people on his blog volunteer to send some.  How would we know how many he
took up on the offer or from other sources?Also, we know he got money
from Ampenergo. It was described in an interview by an Ampenergo principal
who refused to the name the amount but described it as "a major part of the
equation" or some such words.

> but instead is working with his licensees to hook in private investors for
> them and in return for him. Now it is becoming clearer how this scam works.
>

At least how part of it might work.

> Seems Mary, Jones and others here were correct. There is a scam going on.
> Dick Smith and Ian Bryce have exposed how it works and apparently are
> working to stop it as they are now asking for people any country who have
> been approached to invest in local E-Cat licensees to come forward and
> contact the Australian Skeptics.
>

That will be interesting, LOL.

Re: [Vo]:I`ll just leave this here

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:33 PM, thorium breeder  wrote:

> I ask the wisdom of the crowd for a sanity check.
>
> Can rossi achieve "do it yourself isotopic separation"?
>

One of the more far out of Rossi's claims, made clearly and at least twice
in his misnamed blog (JONP), was that he can do (nickel) isotope separation
on the cheap.   Of course, that's immensely unlikely.  He was asked how he
does it and of course he said it was proprietary.  It ranks up there with
the self destruct system and the private homes and factories which are
currently heated by E-cats but of course we can't see them or talk to the
owners.

Re: [Vo]:I`ll just leave this here


On 21/01/2012 5:12 PM, Phil Wilson wrote:

On 21/01/2012 5:03 PM, thorium breeder wrote:

Is the rossi heater
multi-level marketing in the digital age?


You just got a hole in one.


You got that right. Wonder what happens when the E-Cat
hits 451 deg F? Bury baby burn? Bring it on!

Shaun

Re: [Vo]:I`ll just leave this here

2012-01-20 Thread Phil Wilson


On 21/01/2012 5:03 PM, thorium breeder wrote:

Is the rossi heater
multi-level marketing in the digital age?


You just got a hole in one.

Re: [Vo]:Kullander's "detailed isotopic analysis" of "ash" from Rossi's E-Cat?


On 21/01/2012 5:00 PM, Bastiaan Bergman wrote:

Anyone? I'm interested too...

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM, John Milstone
  wrote:


Hi everyone!

Last November, Sven Kullander promised a "detailed isotopic analysis" of the ash from 
Rossi's E-Cat "by Christmas".  (http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416)

It's now well past Christmas, and I haven't seen any signs of this report.  
Does anyone know what happened to it?

John


I wonder how long is the list of scientists, engineers and other 
professionals, wanting to believe so much in the E-Cat and it's promise, 
who forgot their training to always be skeptical?


Good thing Ian Bruce and Disk Smith were not sucked in and uncovered how 
the scam works.


Shaun

[Vo]:I`ll just leave this here

2012-01-20 Thread thorium breeder

I ask the wisdom of the crowd for a sanity check.

Can rossi achieve "do it yourself isotopic separation"?

Can a nickel carbonyl reflux column achieve isotopic separation?

Is a centrifuge also required or just a vortex tube?

Is the isotope refining more controversial than LENR?

Does one get the impression that the standard decay chain and cross
section charts do not account for LENR?

Is a proliferation risk present should rossi come out?

Are nuclear engineers all over the world being assassinated?

Has anyone contacted the department of homeland security over this?

Do any of the party's involved have NRC license?

Could any one involved be arrested for possession of dirty bomb material?

Do I get water boarded for funding terrorism or Is the rossi heater
multi-level marketing in the digital age?

Re: [Vo]:Kullander's "detailed isotopic analysis" of "ash" from Rossi's E-Cat?

2012-01-20 Thread Bastiaan Bergman

Anyone? I'm interested too...

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM, John Milstone
 wrote:
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> Last November, Sven Kullander promised a "detailed isotopic analysis" of the 
> ash from Rossi's E-Cat "by Christmas".  (http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416)
>
> It's now well past Christmas, and I haven't seen any signs of this report.  
> Does anyone know what happened to it?
>
> John
>

[Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi

Been a Vortex web lurker too long. Finally something that blows up 
Rossi, his lunatic supporters and exposes how this scam works.


http://skepticzone.libsyn.com/webpage/the-skeptic-zone-170-21-jan-2012

It is good to see Ian Bryce of the Australian Skeptics taking a slice 
out of Rossi, doing the numbers and openly showing Rossi's data doesn't 
stack up and is fabricated. I bet plenty of people at that meeting still 
invested their money. Too bad there are plenty of green and stupid 
people around who want to believe Rossi and his E-Cat will save the 
planet, even when Ian Bryce shows them it fails the 3 legged stool test.


Don't you find it very interesting Rossi was scheduled to talk, via a 
Skype video link, to a group of family sized investors, despite saying 
that he was not interested in personal investors? I bet the licensee, 
after talking with Bryce and seeing he was negative, told Rossi not to 
call.


Ok Rossi may not be interested in private investors for Leonardo Corp 
but instead is working with his licensees to hook in private investors 
for them and in return for him. Now it is becoming clearer how this scam 
works.


Seems Mary, Jones and others here were correct. There is a scam going 
on. Dick Smith and Ian Bryce have exposed how it works and apparently 
are working to stop it as they are now asking for people any country who 
have been approached to invest in local E-Cat licensees to come forward 
and contact the Australian Skeptics.


It is good to be an Australian skeptic, see someone prove my doubts were 
correct and to finally see this scam exposed as to how it works and 
before anyone loses any more money.

[Vo]:Issue of Patent Protection?

2012-01-20 Thread Harvey Norris

Now in this time of research and application, I seem to have reached a finality 
with bulb demonstrations, with the first beginning tommorow. I have made good 
tests today with the principle using a 15 watt bulb as the load. But first one 
must fathom what is going on...

Harvey D Norris wrote:
>  
>
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AudJdtb4CqF7vnyEjBRabBrsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20120120181817AA383Fw
>
> When historically,(what year) did Tesla and Westinghouse demonstrate the 
> superiority of AC vs DC for power.?
> Having seemingly found a 2nd example of this beyond belief, I need to 
> determine the historical precedent for the first so called "War of the 
> Currents", where Edison lost the battle to Tesla, and when AC was found 
> superior to DC for power delivery over distance. I would imagine a date of 
> 1897 might be set, where Tesla/ Westinghouse first exhibited the technology 
> at the Chicago Worlds Fair.
>
> ANSWER:
> wikipedia:
>
> The "end" of the "War of Currents" was marked in 1891 by the International 
> Electro-Technical Exhibition â€" 1891 in Frankfurt Germany (Die 
> Elektrotechnische Ausstellung). During this exposition a three phase AC power 
> system developed by Mikhail Dolivo-Dobrovolsky and Oerlikon was able to send 
> power over 109 miles from Lauffen to Frankfurt. It successfully operated 
> motors and lights at the fair. Many corporate technical representatives 
> (including E.W. Rice of Thomson-Houston Electric Company (what became General 
> Electric)) attended. The technical advisors and representatives were 
> impressed. The following year General Electric formed and immediately 
> invested heavily in AC power (at this time Thomas Edison's opinions on 
> company direction were muted by President Coffin and the GE board of 
> directors). Westinghouse was already ahead in AC, but it only took a few 
> years for General Electric to catch up, mainly thanks to Charles Proteus 
> Steinmetz, a Prussian
 mathematician who was the first person to fully understand AC power from a 
solid mathematical standpoint. General Electric hired many talented new 
engineers to improve its design of transformers, generators, motors and other 
apparatus. In Europe Siemens and Halske became the dominant force. Three phase 
60 Hz at 120 volts became the dominant system in North America while 220-240 
volts at 50 Hz became the standard in Europe.
> Source(s):
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currâ€¦
 Now the second example that I am refering to was made today
Dual Channel Scopings of Secondaries to be placed in Series from (corrected) 
666 Machine; ~ 60 degree Time Difference from poles over Identical Phase 
Series! This actually explains how fields in near unison can exist from the 
combinations.
http://youtu.be/CBR1z5WaKAE
HDN
Now from here the tests with bulbs will corroborate my claims, I suppose. 
Todays test indicated that with a 15 watt bulb 180 volts would exist from a 22 
volt alternator, with all the energy passed through the air through this air 
core method refered to as the 666 machine. Both methods use 4/1 step up 
transformers. However given this load and this input the forcasted DC 
conversion voltage across the bulb will be only 120 volts. So given the above 
facts I can show 22 volts input using a 4 fold transformer producing 180 volts 
to 15 watt load, which produces 50% better efficiency to that load as predicted 
by theory. The 22 volt alternator using a 4/1 step up transformer will light 
the bulb over 50% greater then what 120 volt wall voltage will produce, I 
imagine, since the  heated filament has a non linear resistance.

Thus I feel that in demonstrating these facts, I might be defeating my purposes 
here, and if I can deliver the goods, I should seek a patent first. It could be 
a "new" war of the currents where once again the AC application may become 
superior to the former known DC application as the most sensible conversion of 
3 phase energy to a common resistive load.

It could be a gold mine as they say, so whats the issue of rights to the gold 
mine you discovered. Should I just put up private local demonstrations of the 
process and then hope for investors to generate the patent application costs? 
It doesnt seem wise to put it on the internet openly. I remember some time ago 
there was discussions about how disclosures of an idea will make the patent 
application difficult, as a prior disclosure somehow invalidates the claim. Any 
comments from the vortex rat pack here?
Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

RE: [Vo]:Podcast interview about Ian Bryce's e-Cat investigation on behalf of Dick Smith

2012-01-20 Thread Robert Leguillon

Those articles have been mentioned here in the past, but thanks for adding the 
podcast to the mix.

Though there were absolutely no technical revelations, what I did take away 
from the interview is the breath of investors being lured in.

In the past, Rossi claimed that the customer's money would be held in escrow 
until they were satisfied that the E-Cat works as promised. Those statements 
lewd many to believe that he could not be perpetrating a scam.  

It should be quite obvious by now, that there are a lot of people being 
separated from their money without any product testing...purely as investors.

For anyone who doesn't want to listen to the whole interview, just listen ~ 
6:30 to ~30:00.

Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:58:53 +0100
From: hjarns...@gmail.com
To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Podcast interview about Ian Bryce's e-Cat investigation on behalf 
of  Dick Smith

The other week there was a story about Ian Bryce from Australian Skeptics doing 
an investigation on behalf of Dick Smith. See these 
stories:http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/mullumbimby-helping-to-save-world-20120112-1pxj2.html
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/more-fizzer-than-fusion-so-dicks-not-energised-20120114-1q0fv.html

And now there's an interview out with Ian Bryce in the latest Skeptic Zone 
episode:http://skepticzone.libsyn.com/webpage/the-skeptic-zone-170-21-jan-2012

[Vo]:Podcast interview about Ian Bryce's e-Cat investigation on behalf of Dick Smith

2012-01-20 Thread Hjärn Synkronisatorn

The other week there was a story about Ian Bryce from Australian Skeptics
doing an investigation on behalf of Dick Smith. See these stories:
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/mullumbimby-helping-to-save-world-20120112-1pxj2.html
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/more-fizzer-than-fusion-so-dicks-not-energised-20120114-1q0fv.html

And now there's an interview out with Ian Bryce in the latest Skeptic Zone
episode:
http://skepticzone.libsyn.com/webpage/the-skeptic-zone-170-21-jan-2012

Re: [Vo]:billb bought no SMOTseses

2012-01-20 Thread Terry Blanton

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 8:19 PM, William Beaty  wrote:

> I still have little plastic drawer entirely full of used mouseballs...

Those poor mice.

It reminds me of what the dear, late Chris Tinsley used to say:

"I have the mind of a child . . .

in a jar of formaldehyde on my desk."

:-)

T

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread William Beaty


On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:
So, he was clearly a bald face liar, asking people for money for something he 
certainly knew he didn't have.


To suggest that we welcome him back to the list, after he stole money from 
list members, would be outrageous.  (I'm not sure anyone actually made that 
suggestion.)


Already happened.  He popped up a few years later (perhaps on freenrg-L 
rather than here?) but instantly vanished again as soon as someone asked 
whether *any* vortex SMOT pre-pays were still not reimbursed.





(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

[Vo]:billb bought no SMOTseses

2012-01-20 Thread William Beaty


On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Jones Beene wrote:
He did repay a few carefully selected purchasers on vortex, including 
our moderator Bill,


Nope, I never was interested, other than to buy $10 of used mouseballs and 
a length of small-gauge train track.  My personal policy is, when playing 
with FE/OU, the first rule is to leave your wallet and credit cards at 
home!


Didn't Greg claim to be doing a production run of 100 units, all pre-sold? 
If he wasn't a scammer to begin with, that probably was his doom right 
there: thousands of bucks of cash in hand from the magical internet.  It 
can push some ordinary people right over the edge.  "Whom the gods would 
destroy, they first give plans for a Free Energy device."



I still have little plastic drawer entirely full of used mouseballs...


(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint

Keef, over here in the states, the saying goes,
"Don't throw the baby (LENR) out with the bath-water (GOW)."

Where Rossi fits into that saying is debatable...
-mark
_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 4:21 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

I agree 100% with Mark on this. 

And it is not a fine point. The 'bad guys' are being confused in the dust of
high body count.

Keef - my advice to you - is to get your act together on your real
adversary. It is GOW and not LENR. LENR is essentially correct, as science.
Yes, it rests on the vagaries of QM, but it may carry QM to the altar and
not the other way around. Check out the LENR/CANR site, because you lose
most of your allies if you try to go too far with this.

IOW, to be precise - you buddy Greg is a jerk who just happened to back into
this technology as a vehicle for his own scam, not a contributor to the
technology in any way.

Jones

-Original Message-
From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint 

Over at the forum at PeakOil.com is a posting by 'SeaGypsy' trying to start
a Class Action suit against Rossi... (see below)

http://peakoil.com/forums/class-action-vs-rossi-ecat-et-al-t64094-30.html

But he clearly admits as to not having invested or 'lost' anything to Rossi.
I don't know what the laws are in the land of Oz, but in the USofA, if you
can't prove damages, you have no case.  For all we know, 'SeaGypsy' *IS*
Greg, and is trying to scam people by getting them to contribute to a bogus
Class Action suit!

I certainly support Eff Wivakeef's, AKA blinkybill, efforts to pursue Greg
in order to try to recoup his investment, and hopefully stop Greg from
further scams, however, it is clear that he and SeaGypsy know absolutely
*nothing* about LENR/CF and Rossi, and have called it a scam despite their
total ignorance of what has transpired to date.  They probably are not aware
of lenr-canr.org, of the peer-reviewed pubs on it, the high-quality work
done by SRI, SPAWAR, NASA and many, many highly published scientists
throughout the world.  Their anger toward scams is obsessive, and blinding
to what should/should not be ridiculed -- Greg, absolutely should; Rossi,
maybe; CF/LENR absolutely NOT.

-Mark

=
Class Action VS Rossi ECAT et al.

by SeaGypsy > Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:05 am 
Let this be the beginning.

I have not put in one cent, but I bill at $100 an hour. i have spent about
10 hours studying the Rossi mumbo jumbo, so my hat is in for $1000 AUD or US
is acceptable.  Anyone else want to put their claim down here, in advance?

The more the merrier and higher caliber pro-bono lawyer we may retain.

These guys are soo, screwed. Lookout Carl, you are very likely to be on
the prosecution subpoena.
=

<>

RE: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith

2012-01-20 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint

"Another concern was waste-water being poured down the drain -- if a nuclear
reaction was occurring that water would be highly radioactive", Mr. Bryce
said.

It's pretty clear that Mr. Bryce didn't do his homework... at all!  Woefully
ignorant of anything about LENR/CF and the E-Cat demos.  That's what he gets
for not reading vortex-l!
:-)

Mr. Smith, I know several highly qualified techies who will be happy to give
you a proper assessment...
-m

-Original Message-
From: Alan J Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 4:15 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith

At 04:05 PM 1/20/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
And later on
: 
http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-240.html
#p1100188

Mystery blue box sank 'cold fusion' for Dick Smith
BY: ANTHONY KLAN From: The Australian January 20, 2012 12:00AM .

Mr Bryce said one of the most indicative signals that the technology was
unlikely to perform as claimed was the presence of a large, unexplained
"blue box" sitting adjacent to the invention, which was clearly a
substantial power supply.

He said Mr Rossi's "results" from the experiment -- three pages of data
scrawled with handwritten corrections -- and the "very shoddy set up" of the
device all suggested it didn't work.

Another concern was waste-water being poured down the drain -- if a nuclear
reaction was occurring that water would be highly radioactive, Mr Bryce
said.

[ Gee ... Bryce didn't look very far, it seems.  Ah well. ]

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

I agree 100% with Mark on this. 

And it is not a fine point. The 'bad guys' are being confused in the dust of
high body count.

Keef - my advice to you - is to get your act together on your real
adversary. It is GOW and not LENR. LENR is essentially correct, as science.
Yes, it rests on the vagaries of QM, but it may carry QM to the altar and
not the other way around. Check out the LENR/CANR site, because you lose
most of your allies if you try to go too far with this.

IOW, to be precise - you buddy Greg is a jerk who just happened to back into
this technology as a vehicle for his own scam, not a contributor to the
technology in any way.

Jones

-Original Message-
From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint 

Over at the forum at PeakOil.com is a posting by 'SeaGypsy' trying to start
a Class Action suit against Rossi... (see below)

http://peakoil.com/forums/class-action-vs-rossi-ecat-et-al-t64094-30.html

But he clearly admits as to not having invested or 'lost' anything to Rossi.
I don't know what the laws are in the land of Oz, but in the USofA, if you
can't prove damages, you have no case.  For all we know, 'SeaGypsy' *IS*
Greg, and is trying to scam people by getting them to contribute to a bogus
Class Action suit!

I certainly support Eff Wivakeef's, AKA blinkybill, efforts to pursue Greg
in order to try to recoup his investment, and hopefully stop Greg from
further scams, however, it is clear that he and SeaGypsy know absolutely
*nothing* about LENR/CF and Rossi, and have called it a scam despite their
total ignorance of what has transpired to date.  They probably are not aware
of lenr-canr.org, of the peer-reviewed pubs on it, the high-quality work
done by SRI, SPAWAR, NASA and many, many highly published scientists
throughout the world.  Their anger toward scams is obsessive, and blinding
to what should/should not be ridiculed -- Greg, absolutely should; Rossi,
maybe; CF/LENR absolutely NOT.

-Mark

=
Class Action VS Rossi ECAT et al.

by SeaGypsy > Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:05 am 
Let this be the beginning.

I have not put in one cent, but I bill at $100 an hour. i have spent about
10 hours studying the Rossi mumbo jumbo, so my hat is in for $1000 AUD or US
is acceptable.  Anyone else want to put their claim down here, in advance?

The more the merrier and higher caliber pro-bono lawyer we may retain.

These guys are soo, screwed. Lookout Carl, you are very likely to be on
the prosecution subpoena.
=



<>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith


At 04:05 PM 1/20/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
And later on 
: 
http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-240.html#p1100188


Mystery blue box sank 'cold fusion' for Dick Smith
BY: ANTHONY KLAN From: The Australian January 20, 2012 12:00AM
.

Mr Bryce said one of the most indicative signals that the technology 
was unlikely to perform as claimed was the presence of a large, 
unexplained "blue box" sitting adjacent to the invention, which was 
clearly a substantial power supply.


He said Mr Rossi's "results" from the experiment -- three pages of 
data scrawled with handwritten corrections -- and the "very shoddy 
set up" of the device all suggested it didn't work.


Another concern was waste-water being poured down the drain -- if a 
nuclear reaction was occurring that water would be highly 
radioactive, Mr Bryce said.


[ Gee ... Bryce didn't look very far, it seems.  Ah well. ]

Re: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith


At 12:04 PM 1/14/2012, Terry Blanton wrote:

Geeze, don't these people have cell phones to coordinate with?


While following the "Aussie Guy" thread at 
http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-195.html#p109 
I found an update on the Dick Smith story:



Last week, Mr Smith sent aerospace engineer Ian Bryce to attend a 
"public meeting" held by Mr Millin at Mullumbimby.


Mr Bryce said the claimed technology was "not supported with any confidence".

He said both he and Mr Smith had sought to examine the alleged 
technology because at least six scientists had observed or studied 
its results and had been "encouraged".


However, further inspection had revealed major problems with that 
data, Mr Bryce said



- - - - -
SO: Bryce wasn't sent to Italy, but to the Mullumbimby meeting.

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint

Over at the forum at PeakOil.com is a posting by 'SeaGypsy' trying to start
a Class Action suit against Rossi... (see below)
   http://peakoil.com/forums/class-action-vs-rossi-ecat-et-al-t64094-30.html

But he clearly admits as to not having invested or 'lost' anything to Rossi.
I don't know what the laws are in the land of Oz, but in the USofA, if you
can't prove damages, you have no case.  For all we know, 'SeaGypsy' *IS*
Greg, and is trying to scam people by getting them to contribute to a bogus
Class Action suit!

I certainly support Eff Wivakeef's, AKA blinkybill, efforts to pursue Greg
in order to try to recoup his investment, and hopefully stop Greg from
further scams, however, it is clear that he and SeaGypsy know absolutely
*nothing* about LENR/CF and Rossi, and have called it a scam despite their
total ignorance of what has transpired to date.  They probably are not aware
of lenr-canr.org, of the peer-reviewed pubs on it, the high-quality work
done by SRI, SPAWAR, NASA and many, many highly published scientists
throughout the world.  Their anger toward scams is obsessive, and blinding
to what should/should not be ridiculed -- Greg, absolutely should; Rossi,
maybe; CF/LENR absolutely NOT.

-Mark

=
Class Action VS Rossi ECAT et al.

by SeaGypsy > Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:05 am 
Let this be the beginning.

I have not put in one cent, but I bill at $100 an hour. i have spent about
10 hours studying the Rossi mumbo jumbo, so my hat is in for $1000 AUD or US
is acceptable.  Anyone else want to put their claim down here, in advance?

The more the merrier and higher caliber pro-bono lawyer we may retain.

These guys are soo, screwed. Lookout Carl, you are very likely to be on
the prosecution subpoena.
=

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

 (part deux) To wit:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/new-cold-fusion-success-claim-aussie-guy-says-he-has-fleischmann-pons-experiment-devices-working/

You can connect the dots with AG's recent outburst, prior to "the catch" which 
was the fumingly silly "realization" in a post to JR - that the BBB never 
shipped, in the context of the above. 

But it all fits now, if you understand that we are dealing with a sociopathic 
scammer with an ulterior motive. The line:

1) Rossi cannot deliver, since he lied about the "customer"
2) However, I can deliver, due my recent contacts "in Asia" (more BS)
3) Here is my PayPal # -  buy shares in my new company now!

All of which ploy was cut short by an "inconvenient truth": getting caught by 
an adversary you had thought was going to go away, if you could blow enough hot 
air. 

Hey - one of the great beauties of the internet, no? i.e. busting low level 
scammers before they can get traction? 

Probably another reason why the consumate jerk: Murdoch - wants to "restrict 
content" with bogus copyrights, so he cannot get caught as easily as he did 
recently with the cell hacking. 

Lock that cazzo up ! 


-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 

BTW - someone asked earlier how AG/Greg was scheming ... in order to profit 
from contacts on vortex, juxtaposed and combine with the emergence of Andrea 
Rossi onto the public scene, and now the answer is clearing up (GOW's 
strategy). Remember two things - first - he got his big start on vortex, kind 
of luckily and without "enormous bad intent", and that made him a ton of cash, 
what? 2-3 million? 

When crooks are successful with any scam, they try to keep the same formula 
going (at least the good detectives say this - you know: Harry Bosch and Joe 
Leaphorn) ...cough, cough ... where was I - OH - well its basically that "crime 
is amusingly habitual" or non-random to a statistician, and in terms of 
solvability. As for #2, stay tuned but the date of interest is December 26 in 
the archives.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax


At 03:39 PM 1/20/2012, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

And if everything's done right the cell's operation produces 
antigravity as well, and can lift the car right off the ground ... 
neat trick, that.  May not be so good when you're trying to get 
traction on snow, OTOH (something we care about a lot up here in Ottawa).


Aw, not a problem. The cooling fan will move the levitating engine 
right along. Be sure to include that in the patent! Stephen, you are 
demonstrating the Old Limited Thinking! You don't need "traction" if 
you can levitate.


Of course, the Devil is in the details. Nevertheless, if we can 
imagine levitation of a car, we can surely imagine whatever details we like.

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

I continue to be amazed how *convinced* people 
can be by incomplete and inconclusive evidence. 
That takes place in all directions and all sides.


I looked at the thread cited. As cited, it's 
definitely not a proof of anything, there would 
need to be some precedent conditions. However, 
those who are familiar with the whole sequence, 
or certain critical parts of it, might well know 
enough. But that complete evidence hasn't been 
presented. The result is that people may believe 
what they choose to believe. My advice is to 
believe nothing, as to absolute belief. Make 
routine judgments as to where to place your 
money, your feet, or your reputation, and it's 
not necessary to have complete evidence to do 
that. But don't present your conclusions as if 
they were proof of anything but your own opinion.


Physicists who rejected LENR in 1989-1990 because 
it seemed impossible to them may have been making 
a decision that was reasonable given what they 
knew, and the error was in over-exclusion of 
evidence contrary to their beliefs, and 
incomplete study of the foundations of their 
beliefs. Nevertheless, in those early days, there 
were lots of reasons to remain *very* skeptical.


"Very skeptical" is not the same as certainty as 
to bogosity. That certainty never existed with 
cold fusion, as to what would reasonably be 
considered "scientific consensus," i.e., the 
judgment of those who became reasonably informed. 
Read the 1989 and 2004 U.S. DoE reports and see 
if it's reasonable to conclude that there was 
*certainty of bogosity.* There wasn't, not even 
in 1989, and by 2004, experts, including some 
major fraction (as much as one-third) who, from 
their comments, weren't going to accept cold 
fusion if it bit them in the nose, were about 
evenly divided on the issue of some significant 
anomaly being involved. The conclusion that 
further research was needed and actually 
recommended was unanimous in 2004, and that 
wasn't -- as I've seen some skeptics claim -- 
mere "boilerplate." In 1989, yes, it was a 
politically forced conclusion, the Nobel 
Prize-winning co-chair threatened to resign if 
that moderate language wasn't included. Smart man.


What's the problem with the conclusion that 
"Greg" and "Aussie Guy" are the same? The problem 
is that if some person, with a created pseudonym, 
claims to be "So-and-So," on the Internet, we 
don't know it is actually that person. 
Presumably, from the history, and assuming that 
those writing here aren't lying, there is a real "Greg."


Yet I have seen, in Usenet posts, for example, 
straw puppets, users claiming to be such and such 
a person, with such and such views, when the user 
was actually the opposite, an enemy, and was 
attempting to expose and humiliate.


I obviously don't know that this is the case 
here, and my sense is that "Keef" is right; if 
Keef is right, the comments about obsession are 
way out of place. When we have rare and unusual 
knowledge, that could be important for the 
protection of users, we have a special obligation 
to reveal this information. Judging someone who 
does this as "obsessed" is downright rude. 
Possessing special knowledge is not "obsession." 
There are other traits that would have to be 
examined, and for what purpose? Do we suggest 
that users who are "obsessed" should be booted 
from the list? Or that what they tell us should 
be discounted as the ravings of a lunatic?


If there are people actually considering 
investing with "Aussie Guy," these allegations 
should be known, so that people can make up their 
own minds. Everyone should be aware of how 
unreliable information found here and elsewhere on the internet can be.


At 03:21 PM 1/20/2012, Jones Beene wrote:


If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi 
Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from 
another forum - that turned up today - where 
other posters are calling Greg the worlds 
greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and 
he doesnt blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed.


5th message down

http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html

Go for it Keef  did you miss this forum?

 yeah, yeah - we realize that your obsession 
with this mission to bring justice to Oz is 
almost clinical  but hey, getting scammed and 
then getting insulted by the scammer and then 
stalked and threatened  that will sometimes cause overreaction.


Dont forget to take the meds, however.

Re: [Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Robert Leguillon <
robert.leguil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The only reference that I could find on ecat.com to dispensation of
> university testing was more than two months ago, before Rossi seemed to
have
> disavowed it:

Interesting bit from ecat.com:

“We have some kind of fusion inside but I do not think this is the main
energy source”

http://ecat.com/news/andrea-rossi-interview-ecat-cold-fusion

I think it may be a squirrel.  On a treadmill.

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

Terry still wants to know your doggies' name, LOL


-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton 

Vada a bordo, GOW!

T

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Terry Blanton

Vada a bordo, GOW!

T

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

BTW - someone asked earlier how AG/Greg was scheming ... in order to profit 
from contacts on vortex, juxtaposed and combine with the emergence of Andrea 
Rossi onto the public scene, and now the answer is clearing up (GOW's 
strategy). Remember two things - first - he got his big start on vortex, kind 
of luckily and without "enormous bad intent", and that made him a ton of cash, 
what? 2-3 million? 

When crooks are successful with any scam, they try to keep the same formula 
going (at least the good detectives say this - you know: Harry Bosch and Joe 
Leaphorn) ...cough, cough ... where was I - OH - well its basically that "crime 
is amusingly habitual" or non-random to a statistician, and in terms of 
solvability. As for #2, stay tuned but the date of interest is December 26 in 
the archives.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

Yeah RIGHT!

Date: Wed, 14 May
1997 08:15:26 +0930
From: Greg Watson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
vortex-l@eskimo.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Simple
Rotary Ou Device

Hi All,

Just a short note to
try to answer those questions I can.

1) There is NO
outside power source.

2) The device
contains only ceramic magnet and
ferromagnetic
materials (some balsa, a few
bearings and some
plactic "U" channel as well).

3) The device
produces rotary torque. Can be
stopped with very
little pressure from two
fingers on a steel
4mm shaft.

4) The device has
been moved to the middle of
my lounge and my back
garden. It still works.

5) The device will
not auto start. However the
energy necessary to
start is only that required
to overcome friction.

6) I don't think the
device is worthy of a Nobel
or my picture on
Business Week. I know of several
other devices
(Finstrud, Gary, Kawai,Bob Shannon's
Barkenhausen Effect
Battery and many US patents)
which show magnetic
devices can do work. For
some strange reason,
we seem to "Not want to
believe" or
maybe just want to believe in our
own area of research
as the "One true path".

7) I have posted
enough details and ideas for
those of you who
REALLY want to duplicate the
device to do so. Read
my postings.

8) Much work still
remains to be able to light
a 1 watt bulb. When I
can do that, I will make
available through
Stephan's and Bill's OU web
sites a Mpeg of the
device working. If I can't
light a bulb, it will
still make a nice toy and
maybe a starting
place for someone else.

9) The magnets don't
appear to be getting weaker
or colder, but then I
am not generating much
power yet.

10) I still call the
effect DNMEC (Direct Nuclear
Magnetic Energy
Conversion).

OOH HE IS A NUKULAR
SCIENTIST NOW..SIMPLY AMAZING!

Like my flux gate
DNMEC effect, both
these effects revolve around
ferromagnetic and
magnet interactions. I believe
the Kawai motor is
another variation of the DNMEC
effect (like the Rod
& Coil we discussed earlier).

Come on guys (and
gals), start thinking outside
of the square. There
is always more than one way
to crack eggs.

Stop talking
.. BUILD SOMETHING!

--
Best Regards Greg
Watson Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greg Watson Adelaide,
S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

That's nothing, he threatens EVERYONE with a defamation action!

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1788051# 


CaptainScarlet writes...
It's a scam...
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=suncube+fraud&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
There are many other threads on this site stating the same
Hi CaptainScarlet,
I would suggest you should think about getting involved in a defamation court 
proceeding before posting links that you do not know contain 100% truthful 
information. So you know, all those claims came from one person, who has NO 
PROOF of anything he claims.
Just to be very clear here. Unless you are PROVE, in court, that the claim you 
just made is true, GGE can now sue you for defamation.
Care to apologize?
-
Best regards,
Greg Watson, Mng Dir,
Green and Gold Energy Pty Ltd
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


 
GreenandGoldEnergy writes...
I suggest you be very careful here with what you are writing. We have no issue 
with taking you to court for Defamation.
Greg – seriously Dude, chill with the Defamation threats. affable has said that 
it appeats that you are no longer trading as he can't find an address etc. and 
that would be an issue.
I can't see defamation happening here (IANAL).
Anyway, you have the perfect opportunity to state the facts as you see them as 
much as you are willing. To me these defamation threats just seem over the top!
:-)
User #387654   475 posts
Naboo The Shaman
Forum Regular This thread is like Groundhog Day
Look out for the next defamation threat in another 7 page's time 

Then there is THIS thread  
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=903&PN=1

The moderator got freaked out by all the threats from Greggy so he closed it 
down.
It's a funny read though!

Gizmo
Admin Group

 
Administrator

Joined: 05 June 2004
Location: Australia 
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3193 Posted: 06 October 2008 at 3:46pm | IP Logged   


 No more discussion about the Suncube on my forum please. Any future posts will 
be deleted unless it is to say the Suncubes have started production and are 
available for pickup. 

Thats it, no more, its not in the nature of this forum for this sort of 
discussion to continue and I'm sick of stressing about it. Wish the best to 
Green and Gold. 

Glenn

__
"If it dont fit, use a bigger hammer." 

From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 9:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
 
Craig,

That particular message could be a "plant" by someone else but even so, the 
worldwide number was much higher than in the USA alone.

He did repay a few carefully selected purchasers on vortex, including our 
moderator Bill, and maybe Jed. Selective reimbursement. There are old posts in 
the archives. 

I guess he thought the rest of us would forgive and forget ...

Wrong. And if he did clear over a million - and Keef wants to fry him but good, 
ask the tax officials in Oz if he paid his taxes on the $2-3 million. Somehow, 
it seems unlikely that scammers will pay taxes on ill-gotten gains, but he is 
pretty clever at avoiding legal responsibilities, it seems.

The strangest post from him is on a Aussie solar forum - where he warns a 
critic to "apologize or else he will take them to Court for defamation" - and 
this is the same time frame that he is getting spanked in court by Keef; plus 
it looks like he did not have an attorney then. ROTFL.


-Original Message-
From: Craig Haynie 

"1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and
ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150
Aus."

http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html

20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT?

I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I
thought he was a beginning scammer.

Craig

[Vo]:Greg pokes smot

Clauzon's test of Watson's SMOT28-Apr-09 12:19 am
Ok Greg, I looked at Professor Clauzon's test

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotnrgt.htm

First, I don't know who this guy is but I am looking into whether he actually
exists. It doesn't really matter.

So this experiment is pretty simple. They are simply trying to see how much
energy the ball gains when running through a SMOT. Now, they don't actually
test this perfectly but I won't get into those details.

Lets just jump to the erroneous conclusion. They find that the ball gains
energy from running through the SMOT which is no surprise since the magnets
create a non-uniform magnetic field which accelerates the ball up the ramp.
They find the energy at the input is 3.186 mJ and the energy at the output is
3.610 mJ. The ratio of these two is 1.133. So far so good.

Then they conclude that since 1.133 is greater than unity, the "efficiency" is
113%.

Huh? Why do they call that "efficiency"? Anyway, they can choose to call it
whatever they want. The point is that there is nothing going on that is not
explainable by standard physics. The ball is placed in a position where the
magnetic field has potential energy. Since the potential energy has a gradient
(variation in one direction), the ball moves in the direction of lower
potential which converts the potential energy of the magnetic field into
kinetic energy just as physics predicts.

Where does the energy come from? It comes from the fact that you have moved two
magnets into a position where they have a varying magnetic field and dragged a
metal ball against the direction of the field to where it has higher potential
energy.

Could you get energy out of a SMOT. Sure why not? You get out whatever energy
you put in by dragging the ball against the field minus the frictional losses.
It is just like saying you are going to build a water tower and use the water
pressure to run an electric dynamo and create electricity. OK, you can do that
but you need to get the water up into the tower and this requires work or
energy. This can be used to store energy but it does create any more energy
than you have put in. In fact energy will be lost to frictional forces as heat.

So Greg, what the hell are you trying to say? Clauzon indeed proves that the
SMOT works if by work you mean that two magnets put at an angle will pull a
ball up a ramp. But so what? What does this have to do with over-unity or free
energy?

Here is a link where another physicist talks about the SMOT and why the idea is
completely silly.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/smo...
READ ALL ABOUT GREGGY'S WONDERFUL BREAKTHROUGH HERE
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_E/threadview?m=te&bn=6046&tid=51222&mid=-1&tof=-1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1#-1
(The laws of physics do not apply in the wonderful world of Watson)

The fact that the CEO of an energy company cannot understand the most
rudimentary physics is completely absurd to me. You definitely make life
interesting Greg!

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence




On 12-01-20 04:39 PM, Craig Haynie wrote:

On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 13:25 -0800, Eff Wivakeef wrote:

What is for sure is that Greg advertised the SMOT all over the net and
lived off the income for a few years. [ ... ]

This is news to me too. The way he approached this list back in the
mid-90s, was as a regular guy who had found this interesting thing with
magnets and a steel ball. ...

He may have been a guy who just got lazy and failed to deliver...


No.  He could never have been "just lazy".  That would imply he really 
had something real, and just didn't follow through on it, but that is 
certainly not true.  He was dishonest about it from the word go; he had 
nothing which worked.


He was claiming to have a device which violated physical law -- and not 
just an obscure second law violation in marginal conditions, but a 
violation of well understood, extremely well verified laws of how 
magnets interact with each other, which certainly also included a pure 
and simple first law violation.  It was a straight-up type 1 PMM, with 
no wiggle room for "statistical violations" or ZPE or Casamir forces or 
other "possible cheats".


He obviously *never* had a working model.

Yet, he CLAIMED to have a working model (certainly an outright lie), 
which ran and ran and ran (certainly a lie), and he claimed to have a 
videotape of it running for an extended period (certainly a lie).  
However, he couldn't actually produce the tape -- there was some 
cock&bull story about something happening to the tape so he couldn't 
show it to anyone, and some bogus reason why he couldn't tape it again.


So, he was clearly a bald face liar, asking people for money for 
something he certainly knew he didn't have.


To suggest that we welcome him back to the list, after he stole money 
from list members, would be outrageous.  (I'm not sure anyone actually 
made that suggestion.)

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

Craig,

That particular message could be a "plant" by someone else but even so, the 
worldwide number was much higher than in the USA alone.

He did repay a few carefully selected purchasers on vortex, including our 
moderator Bill, and maybe Jed. Selective reimbursement. There are old posts in 
the archives. 

I guess he thought the rest of us would forgive and forget ...

Wrong. And if he did clear over a million - and Keef wants to fry him but good, 
ask the tax officials in Oz if he paid his taxes on the $2-3 million. Somehow, 
it seems unlikely that scammers will pay taxes on ill-gotten gains, but he is 
pretty clever at avoiding legal responsibilities, it seems.

The strangest post from him is on a Aussie solar forum - where he warns a 
critic to "apologize or else he will take them to Court for defamation" - and 
this is the same time frame that he is getting spanked in court by Keef; plus 
it looks like he did not have an attorney then. ROTFL.


-Original Message-
From: Craig Haynie 

"1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and
ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150
Aus."

http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html

20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT?

I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I
thought he was a beginning scammer.

Craig

RE: [Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog

2012-01-20 Thread Robert Leguillon

The only reference that I could find on ecat.com to dispensation of university 
testing was more than two months ago, before Rossi seemed to have disavowed it:
Q: Will you do more public tests of the E-cat?
Asked by Ecat.com 2 months ago

A:
1- we made all the tests we had to make
2- no more public tests will be made, the phase of public tests is over for us 
3- we now are no more making test-prototypes, but industrial products 
4- the tests of our E-Cats from now on will be made exclusively by our 
Customers 
5- all our next work with Universities (Bologna, Uppsala) will not be public, 
but restricted and confidential Research and Development activity.
by Andrea Rossi 2 months ago

Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:23:13 -0800
From: maryyu...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog

"



Italo R.



January 19th, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Dear Ing. Rossi,

I have been told that in your official E-Cat website http://ecat.com/ there is 
the important news that two Universities are already studying and testing your 
E-Cats.

May I ask you if it is real?

Maybe those Universities are in Bologna and Uppsala?

I apologize to be so indiscreet but, as you know, we all are excited and follow 
every fact of E-Cats!!

Kind regards,

Italo R."


Interestingly Rossi published this but did not respond at all so far.  Anyone 
know if the University of Bologna will extend Rossi's contract to test and 
characterize his "technology"?  It was supposed to expire about now if not 
funded.

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Craig Haynie

On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 13:25 -0800, Eff Wivakeef wrote:
> Err the 20,000 Might be an inadvertent typo.
> Who knows how many of the stupid things he sold or did did/not
> deliver.
> What is for sure is that Greg advertised the SMOT all over the net and
> lived off the income for a few years.
> http://groups.google.com.au/groups/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=real+ou+now+greg+watson&btnG=Search&sitesearch=
>  

This is news to me too. The way he approached this list back in the
mid-90s, was as a regular guy who had found this interesting thing with
magnets and a steel ball. He never talked about selling the SMOT until
some people here started asking to have him make one for them. The whole
presentation was as if he was making them just for the people on this
list, and only because he was being asked. The cost was really quite
reasonable if he had actually done any work on them. The SMOT was not
orginally even supposed to prove the effect he was claiming.

He may have been a guy who just got lazy and failed to deliver, but if
he was trying to sell them across the internet, then that tells a
different story.

Craig

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

Err the 20,000 Might be an inadvertent typo.
Who knows how many of the stupid things he sold or did did/not deliver.
What is for sure is that Greg advertised the SMOT all over the net and lived 
off the income for a few years.
http://groups.google.com.au/groups/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=real+ou+now+greg+watson&btnG=Search&sitesearch= 




  
Greg Watson   View profile     More options Jun 27 1997, 7:00 am 
Hi All, 

Thought you might like to checkout my SMOT research.  Many worldwide 
replicators have verified my results. 

REAL desktop OU NOW! 

-- 
Best Regards, 
 Greg          Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ 

YEAH RIGHT!
Real OU my arse!



 From: Craig Haynie 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
 
"1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and
ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150
Aus."

http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html

20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT?

I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I
thought he was a beginning scammer.

Craig

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Craig Haynie

"1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and
ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150
Aus."

http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html

20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT?

I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I
thought he was a beginning scammer.

Craig

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

Here is what you need   
http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982.html

If you want more info please contact AUSSIE GUY!

Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth

Entirely possible to skew the results by using a non-sinusoidal waveform that 
exceeds the crest factor that the meter is accurate for.
This is how the Lutec and similar scams work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4og0S9lmJs 

 From: Terry Blanton 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote:

> I (and others) have called for waveform monitoring of the eCat calorimetry,
> or for the use of wideband meters which do not rely on a sinusoidal waveform
> for their calculations.

Wideband metering of what?  The mains?!?

T

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Daniel Rocha

The source doesn't link to yahoo groups.

2012/1/20 Mary Yugo 

>
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>>  ** **
>>
>> If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same,
>> here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other
>> posters are calling Greg the world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his
>> face - and he doesn’t blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as
>> AussiGuy. Case closed.
>>
>
> Sure enough.  And the post makes him sound like a lunatic.
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth


At 12:32 PM 1/20/2012, Terry Blanton wrote:

Wideband metering of what?  The mains?!?


Yes. All of the sub-1MW experiments have been connected to the same 
mains plug in Rossi's "factory".
(eg the area under a square wave gives pi/2 = 1.5 more watts than a 
sine wave --- though I'd have to correct for RMS).


And the connection(s) between the control box and the eCat.

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence




On 12-01-20 03:25 PM, Mary Yugo wrote:



On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene > wrote:


If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and
the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up
today - where other posters are calling Greg the world's greatest
supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn't blink an eye -
PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed.


Sure enough.  And the post makes him sound like a lunatic.


Why, just 'cause he's into Joe cells as well?

I like this (from good old Peswiki):  "The output of the cell does not 
have to be connected to the internals of the engine."


And I like the fact that after you run your engine with a Joe cell for a 
while, the engine catches whatever bug the cell had, and then you can 
disconnect the cell.  I guess you're good to go permanently at that 
point.  Sure can't beat that for gas mileage!


And if everything's done right the cell's operation produces antigravity 
as well, and can lift the car right off the ground ... neat trick, 
that.  May not be so good when you're trying to get traction on snow, 
OTOH (something we care about a lot up here in Ottawa).

Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth

2012-01-20 Thread Terry Blanton

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote:

> I (and others) have called for waveform monitoring of the eCat calorimetry,
> or for the use of wideband meters which do not rely on a sinusoidal waveform
> for their calculations.

Wideband metering of what?  The mains?!?

T

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

I hope you don't mean my friend Blinky
He is a very nice dude.
I know him VERY well indeed.





 From: Mary Yugo 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
 




On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

 
>If anyone is still in
doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from
another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the
world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn’t
blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed.
>
Sure enough.  And the post makes him sound like a lunatic.

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

Who the hell do you think Blinky Bill is?
(I cannot tell a lie!)

 From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

If anyone is still in
doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from
another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the
world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn’t
blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed.

5th message down

http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html

Go for it Keef – did
you miss this forum? 

… yeah, yeah - we realize
that your obsession with this “mission” to bring justice to Oz is
almost clinical – but hey, getting scammed and then getting insulted by
the scammer and then stalked and threatened – that will sometimes cause 
overreaction. 

Don’t forget to take
the meds, however.

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  ** **
>
> If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same,
> here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other
> posters are calling Greg the world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his
> face - and he doesn’t blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as
> AussiGuy. Case closed.
>

Sure enough.  And the post makes him sound like a lunatic.

[Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog

"

   1.  Italo R.
January 19th, 2012 at 3:36
PM

   Dear Ing. Rossi,
   I have been told that in your official E-Cat website
http://ecat.com/there is the important news that two Universities are
already studying and
   testing your E-Cats.
   May I ask you if it is real?
   Maybe those Universities are in Bologna and Uppsala?
   I apologize to be so indiscreet but, as you know, we all are excited and
   follow every fact of E-Cats!!
   Kind regards,
   Italo R."


Interestingly Rossi published this but did not respond at all so far.
Anyone know if the University of Bologna will extend Rossi's contract to
test and characterize his "technology"?  It was supposed to expire about
now if not funded.

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

 

If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same,
here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other
posters are calling Greg the world's greatest supplier of bullshit, to his
face - and he doesn't blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy.
Case closed.

 

5th message down

 

http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html

 

Go for it Keef - did you miss this forum? 

 

. yeah, yeah - we realize that your obsession with this "mission" to bring
justice to Oz is almost clinical - but hey, getting scammed and then getting
insulted by the scammer and then stalked and threatened - that will
sometimes cause overreaction. 

 

Don't forget to take the meds, however.

Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth



At 06:10 AM 1/20/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Francesca broke the proceedings
book into smaller chunks, here:

http://iccf15.frascati.enea.it/docs/proceedings.html

I noticed this one (part 1, p 52)
Abnormal excess heat measured
during Mizuno-type experiments: a
possible artefact?
J-F. FAUVARQUE 
Abstract.
Recently performed
Mizuno-type experiments confirmed generation of excess heat but
not at the rate reported in ref. 2 (Sotchi -ICCF13). The main reason for
the discrepancy is now
clear; the bandwidth of our Unigor wattmeter, used in old experiments,
was insufficient for
correcting measurements of highly fluctuating electric energies.

Let us elaborate on the issue of
electric power measurements. In the early experiments, they were
performed by using the Unigor wattmeter. Its readings were shown to be
reliable when the electrolytic
cell was replaced by an ohmic resistor, that is when the current was
constant. But the current in the
electrolytic cell rapidly fluctuated between zero and approximately ten
amperes. Wide fluctuations of the
current, observed with the oscilloscope, were responsible for wide
fluctuations of the voltage between the
anode and the cathode. Unlike the Unigor 390M (bandwidth up to 0.1 MHz),
the Goerz D6000 instrument
(bandwidth up to 2 MHz) is designed to function properly at such
fluctuations.
As seen in Fig. 2 (curves normalized at 200 volts), the measurements made
with the D6000 wattmeter
were very close to the thermal values. On the contrary, the Unigor values
did not agree with the D6000
values, specially in the 280-300 volts region. This explains the
discrepancy between our now results and
results reported in (2). Oscilloscopic measurements of electric energy
were essentially the same as those
performed by using the D6000 wattmeter (even at 300 V, where arcing was
very intense). The previously reported
excess heat was not observed in our new experiments.
...
- - - - - - - - - - - 
I (and others) have called for waveform monitoring of the eCat
calorimetry, or for the use of wideband meters which do not rely on a
sinusoidal waveform for their calculations.
But I still think that it would be very difficult to "sneak in"
the power levels required for an ecat.

Re: [Vo]:KHCO3

2012-01-20 Thread Axil Axil

See:

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7700068.html#

It looks like creating tubercles on the Nickel surface is a chemical
process requiring precise temperature and timing controls. This would be
hard for an amateur chemist to achieve.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:03 PM, ecat builder  wrote:

> Hey Axil,
>
> I've put nickel nano powder and potassium chlorate (rough powder) into
> a test tube and heated it to 200C with 120 PSI of hydrogen and saw no
> excess heat to report.
>
> Any ideas on preparing the Ni lattice or tubercles?
>
> MY: You have quite an ego to accuse Axil of not contributing science
> to the Vortex! LOL!
>
> "Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing
> it"
>
>

Re: [Vo]:KHCO3

2012-01-20 Thread Daniel Rocha

No, science is try a method and see if works accordingly.

2012/1/20 Mary Yugo 

>
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> The Rossi reaction in a nutshell…
>> 
>> Getting back to the science of Ni-H thermal gain, instead of soap opera.
>>
>
> No it's not science.  It's not science to postulate a mechanism for a
> reaction that has never been properly demonstrated to work.   It's putting
> the proverbial cart way ahead of the horse.
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:KHCO3

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:03 AM, ecat builder wrote:

>
> MY: You have quite an ego to accuse Axil of not contributing science
> to the Vortex! LOL!
>

I never said that.  You made it up.  My response was to a very specific
post.

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

Only if you assume that all or most of the water has been vaporized to dry 
steam - and besides, Rossi could have started the demo with the storage already 
more or less heated up. We don't know. Nobody was there and whitnessed the 
preparations, afaik.

One more thing that doesn't really add up: If you look at the power he's 
putting in and compare it with the temperature building up, you'll see that 
significantly more power is consumed than required to heat the water during 
that phase. Where does it go to? Do LENR reactions genuinely consume heat when 
they start up? And what chemical or physical or nuclear state do they convert 
it to? Or is the heat that's NOT immediately consumed by the water simply 
stored?

 Von: Harry Veeder 
An: Yamali Yamali  
Gesendet: 19:36 Freitag, 20.Januar 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

If water was being heated the whole time, I think such a scheme would
require more electrical energy than was measured.

Harry

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Harry Veeder  wrote:
> oops i forgot its cubed
> Harry
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Yamali Yamali  wrote:
>> Harry wrote: "How do you hide 1 cubic meter of iron in the device which was
>> tested?"
>>
>> I don't have to. First of all, less than 100 liters of water were heated in
>> the desktop demos - and secondly, 10,000 cm3 are just 10 liters (not 1,000
>> liters) weighing merely 78kg (not over 7,000). The October 28 demo
>> supposedly heated 3,700 or so liters in 107 modules. 27kg of iron (a slab of
>> 30x20x6cm) per module would have been more than enough (unless I messed up
>> the numbers somewhere along the line).

Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat

If it was, then the entire power calculation is screwed up. With that kind of 
pressure the water wouldn't convert to steam (and the hose where the steam came 
out during the demo would have looked dramatically different - 3 bar would be 
enough to prevent boiling at the measured temperatures). Maybe Rossi uses water 
as the isolator for his heat storage - and that isolator water was what shot 
out of the valve at the end.

 Von: Jed Rothwell 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 18:54 Freitag, 20.Januar 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat

Eff Wivakeef wrote:

The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts.
>
>
>WTF?|
>
>
>Simple really, there is a  store of very hot pressurised hot water stored 
>within the "Ecat" that has been heated by the electrical input power, 
There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold
fusion.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat

There is no electrical power input.
That water was heated EARLIER by the mains power source.
Simple really!



 From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
 

Eff Wivakeef wrote:


The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts.
>
>
>WTF?|
>
>
>Simple really, there is a  store of very hot pressurised hot water stored 
>within the "Ecat" that has been heated by the electrical input power, 
There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold
fusion.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

Harry wrote: "How do you hide 1 cubic meter of iron in the device which was 
tested?"

I don't have to. First of all, less than 100 liters of water were heated in the 
desktop demos - and 
secondly, 10,000 cm3 are just 10 liters (not 1,000 liters) weighing 
merely 78kg (not over 7,000). The October 28 demo supposedly heated 
3,700 or so liters in 107 modules. 27kg of iron (a slab of 30x20x6cm) per 
module would have 
been more than enough (unless I messed up the numbers somewhere along the line).



 Von: Harry Veeder 
An: Yamali Yamali  
Gesendet: 18:28 Freitag, 20.Januar 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped
 
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Yamali Yamali  wrote:
> Jed wrote: "...tell me the number right here..."
>
> I AM SORRY BUT THAT NUMBER IIS CONFIDENTIAL. ALL THOSE SNAKES AND CLOWNS OUT
> THERE. COMPETIITION YOU KNOW. BUT I CAN SHOW YOU THE PCM IN A LARGE HEAVY
> METAL BOX ON A TABLE AND PUMP WATER THROUGH IT TO MAKE SOME STEAM IN A
> RUBBER HOSE AND THEN WE CAN CALCULATE THE MEGAJOULES FROM THERE - AND THEN
> YOU WILL BELIEVE ME. DEAL?
>
> Sorry - couldn't resist.
>
> Jed, we've been there before. 10,000 cm3 of iron at 1,500 C would easily
> hold enough energy to heat over 100 liters of water to the boiling point and
> even vaporize some of it.

How do you hide 1 cubic meter of iron in the device which was tested?
Also it would weigh over 7000kg and break the table it was sitting on.

Harry

>Some isolation and you've got yourself a monster
> e-cat. If you prefer a simpler solution, some dry SiO2 would do it, too. Or
> maybe he used a combination of the two or something completely different
> (though I guess it's purely thermal storage and that's why he came up with
> the pre-heating procedure of something probably already pre-heated when the
> demo starts) - but the point is: it wouldn't even have to be exotic or
> especially clever.  Heck - it may even be nothing like that and all he
> really does is hiding cables or faking sensors or some such thing.
> I know you believe such a simple setup is physically impossible - what I
> don't get is why you believe at the same time that an Italian philosopher
> has done what people like McKubre can't even dream of. Just going with
> probabilities here - and I know what I find more likely.

Re: [Vo]:KHCO3

2012-01-20 Thread ecat builder

Hey Axil,

I've put nickel nano powder and potassium chlorate (rough powder) into
a test tube and heated it to 200C with 120 PSI of hydrogen and saw no
excess heat to report.

Any ideas on preparing the Ni lattice or tubercles?

MY: You have quite an ego to accuse Axil of not contributing science
to the Vortex! LOL!

"Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it"

Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat

2012-01-20 Thread Jed Rothwell


Eff Wivakeef wrote:


The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts.

WTF?|

Simple really, there is a  store of very hot pressurised hot water 
stored within the "Ecat" that has been heated by the electrical input 
power,


There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold fusion.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:KHCO3

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> The Rossi reaction in a nutshell…
> 
> Getting back to the science of Ni-H thermal gain, instead of soap opera.
>

No it's not science.  It's not science to postulate a mechanism for a
reaction that has never been properly demonstrated to work.   It's putting
the proverbial cart way ahead of the horse.

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

HOLY SHIT!

 From: Mary Yugo 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> GOW has apparently learned from experience that selling stock in worthless 
> companies is much lower risk than selling products you can’t deliver. 
> “Capitalism” protects the “pump and dumper” pretty well - but not the guy who 
> takes deposits and does not ship product.

Right.  But in the US, pump and dump scams get caught too.  It's that the 
punishment is often limited to a stop and desist order and "disgorgement" of 
the ill gotten funds.  The problem with that last item is that the scammers 
have often spent or hidden the money by the time the order comes out.  One 
recent example of a pump and dump that got caught is Sniffex -- a company which 
sold dowsing rods as explosive detectors and perpetrated a $6 million fraud in 
the US.  A stop and disgorge settlement was reached in a case brought by the 
SEC and the FBI: 

http://www.propublica.org/article/sec-bomb-detector-bought-by-military-was-front-for-scam-717
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2008/comp20645_sniffex.pdf
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2008/lr20645.htm

Unfortunately, the scam continued with the sale of hundreds of millions of 
dollars' worth of the worthless equipment in the rest of the world, especially 
Iraq and Thailand and resulted in several deaths documented on Youtube in 
Thailand and unknown numbers of deaths in Iraq.  Prosecution of the 
perpetrators of those schemes is still uncertain.  The whole dreadful situation 
of people who make millions by selling dowsing rods as explosive detectors in 
mostly undeveloped countries is continuously documented here:   
http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/  and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651

A device similar to Sniffex sold in Iraq:  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQEkXkSVd0  and 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWr6NO8YAbk

There was a video on Youtube which showed a member of the military "clearing" a 
motor bike with a dowsing rod, soldiers moving in, and the bike exploding from 
a hidden explosive device which the detector failed to find.  Six people died 
right on film.  I couldn't find it so maybe it was redacted from Youtube for 
the violence.  The still photos of this incident are here (WARNING: very 
graphic and violent and may be NSFW):   
http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-does.html

To summarize, sometimes in some countries, pump and dump schemers do get their 
hands slapped and their gains reversed.  In most places, even in egregious 
cases that result in injuries and deaths, the scammers are not punished.  I 
think the appropriate punishment for the Sniffex scammers would have been to 
place them inside an intense mine field and give them one of their own 
"explosive detectors" to get themselves out.

Sorry for the OT aspects of this post but the point is that scams can be lethal 
as well as financially destructive and even then it can take an extremely long 
time to stop them and the punishment to the perpetrators is not sufficient.

[Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhQIufkdL4&feature=related 


Fast forward to 6:40

Huge blast of steam and hot water.
What is going on here?

Well, the mains input power has been removed, the cold water reservoir is still 
being pumped through the Ecat and the hot water/water-vapour/steam is trickling 
out and being poured down the drain. Temperature of the effluent (pun intended) 
is looking good.
So far, so good.
Test over. it really looks as though the Ecat has been able to continue 
producing power after mains power has been removed for quite some time.
 IMPRESSIVE!
Show is now over..
But wait, there's more!
The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts.

WTF?|

Simple really, there is a  store of very hot pressurised hot water stored 
within the "Ecat" that has been heated by the electrical input power, preserved 
by the layers of foil insulation and used as a heat store to maintain the 
illusion of continued "LENR" power after the electrical input is removed.
The venting of all that stored hot water is the proof of that.

VortsI have no problem with you indulging your fascination with mysterious 
sources of energy.
What I do have a problem with is your ongoing support for con-artists like 
Rossi and Watson who cause real harm to those unfortunate enough to be drawn 
into their web of deception.

Have a great day
 Keef

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Jones Beene wrote:
>
> GOW has apparently learned from experience that selling stock in
worthless companies is much lower risk than selling products you can’t
deliver. “Capitalism” protects the “pump and dumper” pretty well - but not
the guy who takes deposits and does not ship product.

Right. But in the US, pump and dump scams get caught too. It's that the
punishment is often limited to a stop and desist order and "disgorgement"
of the ill gotten funds. The problem with that last item is that the
scammers have often spent or hidden the money by the time the order comes
out. One recent example of a pump and dump that got caught is Sniffex -- a
company which sold dowsing rods as explosive detectors and perpetrated a $6
million fraud in the US. A stop and disgorge settlement was reached in a
case brought by the SEC and the FBI:

http://www.propublica.org/article/sec-bomb-detector-bought-by-military-was-front-for-scam-717
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2008/comp20645_sniffex.pdf
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2008/lr20645.htm

Unfortunately, the scam continued with the sale of hundreds of millions of
dollars' worth of the worthless equipment in the rest of the world,
especially Iraq and Thailand and resulted in several deaths documented on
Youtube in Thailand and unknown numbers of deaths in Iraq. Prosecution of
the perpetrators of those schemes is still uncertain. The whole dreadful
situation of people who make millions by selling dowsing rods as explosive
detectors in mostly undeveloped countries is continuously documented here:
http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/ and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651

A device similar to Sniffex sold in Iraq:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQEkXkSVd0 and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWr6NO8YAbk

There was a video on Youtube which showed a member of the military
"clearing" a motor bike with a dowsing rod, soldiers moving in, and the
bike exploding from a hidden explosive device which the detector failed to
find. Six people died right on film. I couldn't find it so maybe it was
redacted from Youtube for the violence. The still photos of this incident
are here (WARNING: very graphic and violent and may be NSFW):
http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-does.html

To summarize, sometimes in some countries, pump and dump schemers do get
their hands slapped and their gains reversed. In most places, even in
egregious cases that result in injuries and deaths, the scammers are not
punished. I think the appropriate punishment for the Sniffex scammers
would have been to place them inside an intense mine field and give them
one of their own "explosive detectors" to get themselves out.

Sorry for the OT aspects of this post but the point is that scams can be
lethal as well as financially destructive and even then it can take an
extremely long time to stop them and the punishment to the perpetrators is
not sufficient.

Re: [Vo]:Story of DoD and TE devices of leonardo corporation

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:
> someone have cited this dcument from us army corp of engineer
> http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada432046
>
> it talsk about the experiments with Rossi'es TE devices.
>
> it is interesting because they don't talk about total fraud, but what look
> like
> optimism and amateurism...

The problem with Rossi's version of this story is, as near as I can find
out, that nobody credible ever saw, documented or wrote up for publication
the exact test they did on the initial batch of highly efficient, 100 W
devices.  This is exactly analogous to the experiment done by Levi in
February on an E-cat.  As everyone probably recalls, that experiment was
the *only* Rossi "demo" properly designed to measure enthalpy with a
straightforward and accurate method by obtaining the flow rate of coolant
and the delta T across the device, using an entirely liquid coolant.  The
problem with the experiment is that Levi wouldn't provide Krivit or anyone
else with documentation and equivocated about quality of the data when
asked why in an interview.  That's OK but what's not OK is that Levi and
Rossi never repeated the experiment with proper blanks, calibration and
controls even though it would be simple, cheap and safe for Rossi's
intellectual property to do so.  They've now had almost a year to do it.
Rossi gave a typical tangential and nonresponsive answer about this on his
blog when he was asked -- something completely absurd about how he would
prove the device through sales and not tests.   Well, in the last year, he
hasn't done that either.

Back to the TE devices.  It defied imagination to suppose that Rossi could
have made a sample batch by hand which tested at 100 W for an efficiency of
20% and then could not provide DOD with samples which tested better than 1
W or so with the same thermal input.  If his factory had been destroyed by
fire, if his subcontractor could not provide the devices, Rossi could have
proved them real by making a few more by hand and submitting them for
proper independent testing.  It is also unlikely that the university or
Rossi did not retain one of the original devices.   Rossi never provided
any more valid high efficiency tests -- a parallel with not submitting the
original E-cat for such testing.

I think Rossi never provided 100 W devices to anyone. I suspect it was only
a claim or if the test actually happened, it was another Rossi-engineered
mis-measurement.If such claimed devices were in fact tested at a
university, where are the data?  Who has the original devices?  And most
important, how were they tested?  Is it a credible method?  And why can't
those devices be found, retested and replicated or reverse engineered?  The
best answer is that it was indeed a scam and a deliberate one from the
start.  And DOD, as it often does, looked at the voluminous and highly
fanciful initial paperwork and approved a grant.  I bet they wasted
millions of dollars on Rossi's TE devices and the unnecessarily elaborate
and grandiose test equipment they developed which proved that they didn't
work.

Here is the final report from 2004 by scientists at the Army Corps of
Engineer.  You can see the elaborate and expensive equipment DOD made up to
test the devices and the piddly insignificant efficiency of the devices
Rossi gave them.   One has to suppose Rossi did not final testing or
quality assurance on the final product or he would not have submitted them
at all because they simply did not work as he originally claimed.

http://dodfuelcell.cecer.army.mil/library_items/Thermo%282004%29.pdf

I did browse it and read selected sections but I did not read every word so
if there is something which casts serious doubt on the above interpretation
of what happened, perhaps someone can point it out.

RE: [Vo]:Story of DoD and TE devices of leonardo corporation

From: Alain Sepeda

someone has cited this document from us army corp. of engineer
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada432046

it talks about the experiments with Rossi's TE devices.

it is interesting because they don't talk about total fraud, but what look
like 
optimism and amateurism...


No, they don't talk about fraud, but how could they - without direct
evidence? Suspicions are not enough.

Importantly, they do not even mention the two fires at Rossi's lab that
destroyed any evidence of possible fraud. Convenient, no?

<>

[Vo]:Story of DoD and TE devices of leonardo corporation

2012-01-20 Thread Alain Sepeda

someone have cited this dcument from us army corp of engineer
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada432046

it talsk about the experiments with Rossi'es TE devices.

it is interesting because they don't talk about total fraud, but what look
like
optimism and amateurism...


LTI was incorporated as a response to the thermoelectric power generation
> research
> by Dr. Andre Rossi. Dr. Rossi indicated that his devices would produce 20
> percent efficiencies, a vast increase from the current science of 4
> percent conversion
> of waste heat to electrical power. Dr. Rossi believed that he could
> increase
> the physical size of the TE Devices and maintain superior power
> generation. In
> furtherance of his research, in early 2000, LTI had tests conducted at the
> University
> of New Hampshire (UNH), Durham, NH, using a small scale LTI TE Device.
> Over a period of 7 days, the UNH power plant staff recorded voltage and
> amperage readings every 1/2 hr. *The TE Device produced approximately 100
> volts and 1 ampere of current, providing 100 watts of power. *

After this initial success, and a fire that destroyed his Manchester, NH
> location, Dr. Rossi returned
> to Italy to continue the manufacture of the TE Devices. In Italy, Dr. Rossi
> believed that LTI could manufacture more cost-effective TE generating
> devices
> with lower labor and assembly costs. Accordingly, Dr. Rossi engaged a
> subcontractor
> to fulfill the requirements of manufacturing and assembly.
> Unfortunately, the Italian subcontractor was unable to provide
> secondgeneration
> TE Devices with satisfactory power generation. Nineteen of 27 TE
> *Devices shipped to CTC, Johnstown, PA, were incapable of generating
> electricity
> for a variety of reasons, from mechanical failure to poor workmanship.*The 
> remaining
> eight produced less than 1 watt of power each, significantly less than
> the expected 800–1000 watts each. Appendix C documents TE Device testing.
> In an effort to determine, and possibly correct the reasons for TE Device
> failures,
> LTI personnel traveled to the Italian laboratory. *The common theme that
> began
> to emerge was the inability to upgrade from small-scale TE modules to
> largescale
> multiple module TE Devices with large footprints*.* The most fundamental
> reason for the LTI second-generation TE Devices’ failure was the complex
> thermal
> expansion interplay among the various components*. Contributing to the TE
> Device failure *were the large number of soldered electrical connections
> (over 80)*,
> *the inability to match the thermal expansion rates of the mono-block
> cooling
> tanks* to the circuit boards and to the semiconductor materials, all
> within the
> clamp pressure or the retaining hardware in the grip of high temperature
> adhesives.
> After a month of research and observation at the Italian laboratory, it
> was determined
> that the best way to proceed would be to develop an independent laboratory
> in New Hampshire so that two development facilities could work at the
> problems from two separate locations and viewpoints. During this period of
> time, the Italian laboratory continued to deliver TE materials, but none
> that exceed
> the current science of TE power generation.


some lessons learn are interesting to undestand today's situation

> • Many TE Devices were damaged during overseas shipping because they were
> transported using only light cardboard boxes with minimal bubble wrap
> protection.
> The LTI subcontractors were immediately notified of this problem,
> and this issue will be addressed in the future.
> • “Overnight” deliveries to Italy typically require a week or more to
> reach their
> destination due to customs.
> • Communication to the Italian subcontractor was difficult at best. E-mail
> communications were slow and language misunderstandings caused delays
> throughout the initial project efforts while troubleshooting the
> malfunctioning
> of the TE Devices. All possible efforts should be made to work with
> companies
> familiar with engineering and business practices of the United States.
> • Testing TE Devices and wafer materials is a science of its own. Measuring
> the internal resistance of a TE Device or a single wafer pair proved
> challenging.
> (The multimeter applied a current through the TE materials, inducing
> the Peltier effect, which caused errors in measurements.)
>




(by the way if some one can explain, shortly and honestly what happens with
AG... look like bipolar crisis. about Rossi, he does not seems more strange
that usual and the only serious concern about what he have said or lied, is
about the 12 big-ecat that seems to be irrational, except if they are from
various clients, or just an option if all is ok and it works like a
breeze... all the rest, like DGT silence, or politician lying, is expected )

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

2012-01-20 Thread Craig Haynie

Heh!

I think you may need profession assistance with your obsession with
Greg. :)

Craig


On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 07:59 -0800, Eff Wivakeef wrote:
> The Ballad of Greg Watson (updated)
> 
> 
> Come and listen to a story
> Bout a man named Greg
> A poor old aging scammer
> Barely kept his fambly fed
> And then one day he was looking at his roof
> Said I'll dream me up a sunball
> And I'll say that it's the troof
> 
> 
> Well the sunball turned to suncube
> And to mark two three four five
> And the money kept on flowing
> It felt good to be alive
> But those customers kept asking
> When those suncubes they'd be getting
> And they started asking questions
> Bout the things Greg kept forgettin
> LikeProof Greg
> Simple proof
> Taint hard
> 
> 
> Well now Greg he chucked a wobbly
> And he said you won't be gettin
> Not a single bloody suncube
> Cos it's secret...I'm not tellin
> But youse can all still buy a share
> In my solar funny farm
> And I'm keepin all the money
> So there's no cause for alarm
> Gold
> Green and Gold
> YEE HA!
> 
> 
> Well Greg he's building factries
> In Indya and Korea
> But Keef he said
> Hey Greg..just cut the crap
> And get on out of here
> Your proposals are preposterous
> Your aim is very clear
> So take your stupid Suncubes
> And insert them in your rear!
> 
> 
> Well the sunCube Saga ended 
> and ole Greg was feeling bored
> But then he found a brand new scam
> (Oh thank you, thank you Lord)
> He found that that cold fusion
> was the brand new place to be
> So he packed his first class baggage
> and he flew to Italy
> 
> 
> Well he met that Andy Rossi
> and he was quite overawed
> he was oily slick and greasy
> and like Greg was almost bald
> thinks might have gone quite nicely 
> but that bastard Keef stepped in
> and he shouted loudly
> BULLSHIT
> much to Greg and And's chagrin
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Aussie Guy.you don't want us to think that you might
> really be Greg Watson do you? 
> 
>

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

Jed wrote: "...tell me the number right here..."

I AM SORRY BUT THAT NUMBER IIS CONFIDENTIAL. ALL THOSE SNAKES AND CLOWNS OUT 
THERE. COMPETIITION YOU KNOW. BUT I CAN SHOW YOU THE PCM IN A LARGE HEAVY METAL 
BOX ON A TABLE AND PUMP WATER THROUGH IT TO MAKE SOME STEAM IN A RUBBER HOSE 
AND THEN WE CAN CALCULATE THE MEGAJOULES FROM THERE - AND THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE 
ME. DEAL?

Sorry - couldn't resist.

Jed, we've been there before. 10,000 cm3 of iron at 1,500 C would easily hold 
enough energy to heat over 100 liters of water to the boiling point and even 
vaporize some of it. Some isolation and you've got yourself a monster e-cat. If 
you prefer a simpler solution, some dry SiO2 would do it, too. Or maybe he used 
a combination of the two or something completely different (though I guess it's 
purely thermal storage and that's why he came up with the pre-heating procedure 
of something probably already pre-heated when the demo starts) - but the point 
is: it wouldn't even have to be exotic or especially clever.  Heck - it may 
even be nothing like that and all he really does is hiding cables or faking 
sensors or some such thing.
I know you believe such a simple setup is physically impossible - what I don't 
get is why you believe at the same time that an Italian philosopher has done 
what people like McKubre can't even dream of. Just going with probabilities 
here - and I know what I find more likely.

And for the record - the PCMs we use are, afaik, nothing special. Last I heard 
they're experimenting with a chemical company from France, trying to make salt 
hydrates stable enough for a couple thousand cycles and -60 C. I have no idea 
what the exact specifications are - probably something like 200j/g or so. 
Despite that, you're welcome to visiting us of course - if and when you come to 
Bavaria next time. The plant tour is well renowned for being interesting and 
worthwhile.

Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

The Ballad of Greg Watson (updated)

Come and listen to a story
Bout a man named Greg
A poor old aging scammer
Barely kept his fambly fed
And then one day he was looking at his roof
Said I'll dream me up a sunball
And I'll say that it's the troof

Well the sunball turned to suncube
And to mark two three four five
And the money kept on flowing
It felt good to be alive
But those customers kept asking
When those suncubes they'd be getting
And they started asking questions
Bout the things Greg kept forgettin
LikeProof Greg
Simple proof
Taint hard

Well now Greg he chucked a wobbly
And he said you won't be gettin
Not a single bloody suncube
Cos it's secret...I'm not tellin
But youse can all still buy a share
In my solar funny farm
And I'm keepin all the money
So there's no cause for alarm
Gold
Green and Gold
YEE HA!

Well Greg he's building factries
In Indya and Korea
But Keef he said
Hey Greg..just cut the crap
And get on out of here
Your proposals are preposterous
Your aim is very clear
So take your stupid Suncubes
And insert them in your rear!

Well the sunCube Saga ended 
and ole Greg was feeling bored
But then he found a brand new scam
(Oh thank you, thank you Lord)
He found that that cold fusion
was the brand new place to be
So he packed his first class baggage
and he flew to Italy

Well he met that Andy Rossi
and he was quite overawed
he was oily slick and greasy
and like Greg was almost bald
thinks might have gone quite nicely 
but that bastard Keef stepped in
and he shouted loudly
BULLSHIT
much to Greg and And's chagrin

Come on Aussie Guy.you don't want us to think that you might really be Greg 
Watson do you?

Re: [Vo]:lanr.org

2012-01-20 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson

>From Andre:

...

> They just reacted on ecatnews.com:
>
> We are in a very early stage don’t get too optimistic. Please don’t bother
> the domain owner, we will publish proper contact info on the site when we
> make progress with our experiments.
>
> Not much to be expected soon, then.

Indeed.

Don't call us. We'll call you.

I guess I could find some encouragement in the fact that situations
like the above web site are beginning to announce their presence to an
apathetic world. However, the website could just as easily be another
setup under the direction of a team of opportunistic scammers
preparing to take advantage of the desperate looking for ways to cut
down on their energy bills.

There certainly seems to have been plenty of scammery on-to-loose
lately, such as the true identity of "Aussie" being brought into
question. As long as "Aussie" refuses to divulge his true identity he
remains powerless to affect recent claims attributing his identity to
the name of Greg Watson. Under the circumstances I would suggest that
"Aussi" either come clean... or start looking into another line of
work.

And so, in the meantime, we wait for lanr.org & lanr.com to come clean
with us... or not. Let us hope we possess the wisdom to know the
difference.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson

Well, Keef - judging from the prior postings here in support of AG (they
know who they are) you may have saved several Rossi fanboys a wad of ca$h
that would have gone into the stock of whatever new "investment vehicle"
Greg comes up with. 

 

GOW has apparently learned from experience that selling stock in worthless
companies is much lower risk than selling products you can't deliver.
"Capitalism" protects the "pump and dumper" pretty well - but not the guy
who takes deposits and does not ship product.

 

Even if Rossi has a hint of a valid technology, a very good scam can be
built on selling "manufacturing licenses". According to what you say, this
is the mostly likely way that Greg was pointing, and he had already built a
pretty good base of support for the next P&D here on vortex, thanks to being
able to hide behind a false identity. 

 

Anyone who was not suspicious of AG from his early posting is way too
gullible - not to get fleeced sometime in the future - many red flags there.
That is NOT the way real businessmen work - ironically, they are way more
discreet.

 

This is not to say that in Greece, DGT is presently pulling off that same
kind of scam, based on inside connections to AR's scam - even though their
ploy does seem to be to sell "manufacturing licenses" at absurd up-front
fees .. but given that Green and Gold seems to be a classic example of "pump
and dump" - it is a fair bet that something like this was already in the
planning stages in Oz, based on Greg claiming to have this special direct
line ("horse's mouth" in his words) connection to AR. 

 

In the final analysis, it looks like Greg chose the wrong end of the horse's
anatomy to best describes his inside connections :-)

 

Jones

 

From: Eff Wivakeef 

 

The story starts here SunCube Fiasco
http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=102146

 

Short version. 

Greg Watson started a company Green and Gold Energy.

Claimed to have a wonderful new Solar widget SUNCUBE which was 6 times
better than old fashioned "flatties"

Published a firm price and specification, ready real soon, place "intent to
purchase" NOW!

Thousands of folks believed it and placed their orders.

Greg then sold licenses to manufacture all over the world for millions of
dollars.

SunCube never came on the market, NOT because it was "suppressed" but
because it was a fake.

Any critics (like me) were threatened with lawsuits, insulted and derided.

SunCube "factory" is closed.

GGE is all but gone which is why I am going after him personally for
bankruptcy.

 

Can I prove 100% that Aussie Guy is Greg Watson? 

Well of course not, I couldn't prove 100% that the SunCube was a fake.

I couldn't prove 100% that the SunCube was a fake (hence the defamation
case)

I can't prove 100% that Watson does not have fairies at the bottom of his
garden.

I can't prove 100% that Rossi is running a scam.

 

If Aussie Guy is NOT Greg Watson, you'd think he would be saying so right
now VERY LOUDLY!

 

Come on Aussi Guy.. YOUR TURN NOW!

Re: [Vo]:lanr.org

2012-01-20 Thread Andre Blum


EL,

Ah, right.. thanks. That was much more in line with what I remembered.

They just reacted on ecatnews.com:

We are in a very early stage don't get too optimistic. Please don't 
bother the domain owner, we will publish proper contact info on the site 
when we make progress with our experiments.



Not much to be expected soon, then.

Andre



On 01/20/2012 09:57 AM, Energy Liberator wrote:
There is also lanr.com, which may or may not be related but I assume 
it is related as they too say they will be live at the end of January. 
They're talking about producing and selling reactor cores.


--
*LANR*
Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions

New site is in development and will be published by the end of january.



We are currently in the initial phase of development.

We intend to start production on multiple types of reactor cores by 
the end of 2012.


The reactors will be cheap and may be available to everybody depending 
on permit requirements.


It is optimistic, but the technology is fairly straightforward based 
on our understanding.



On 20/01/12 13:17, Andre Blum wrote:
Late last year there was a somewhat exciting announcement somewhere, 
I guess in a comments section of a blog, of another startup (nordic, 
I believe), at lanr.org.

If I look at that website now, it says:

=

*LANR*
Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions - Also known as Low Energy Nuclear 
Reactions


New site is in development and will be published by the end of january.

This site is intended to become a discussion forum for people 
interested in and engaged in LANR projects.


=

Am I mistaking, or did this initially say something quite more 
ambitious than becoming a discussion forum?


Andre

[Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings now in bite-sized chunks

2012-01-20 Thread Jed Rothwell

Francesca broke the proceedings book into smaller chunks, here:

http://iccf15.frascati.enea.it/docs/proceedings.html

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:lanr.org

2012-01-20 Thread Energy Liberator


  
  
There is also lanr.com,
  which may or may not be related but I assume it is related as they
  too say they will be live at the end of January. They're talking
  about producing and selling reactor cores.
  
--
LANR
Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions


New site is in development and will be published by the end of
january.



We are currently in the initial phase of development.

We intend to start production on multiple types of reactor cores by
the end of 2012. 

The reactors will be cheap and may be available to everybody
depending on permit requirements.

It is optimistic, but the technology is fairly straightforward based
on our understanding.


On 20/01/12 13:17, Andre Blum wrote:

  
  Late last year there was a somewhat exciting announcement
  somewhere, I guess in a comments section of a blog, of another
  startup (nordic, I believe), at lanr.org.
  If I look at that website now, it says:
  
  =
  
  LANR
Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions - Also known as Low Energy
Nuclear Reactions
  New site is in development and will be
published by the end of january.
   
  This site is
intended to become a discussion forum for people interested in
and engaged in LANR projects.
  
  =
  
  Am I mistaking, or did this initially say something quite more
  ambitious than becoming a discussion forum?
  
  Andre

[Vo]:lanr.org

2012-01-20 Thread Andre Blum

Late last year there was a somewhat exciting announcement somewhere, I 
guess in a comments section of a blog, of another startup (nordic, I 
believe), at lanr.org.

If I look at that website now, it says:

=

*LANR*
Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions - Also known as Low Energy Nuclear 
Reactions


New site is in development and will be published by the end of january.

This site is intended to become a discussion forum for people interested 
in and engaged in LANR projects.


=

Am I mistaking, or did this initially say something quite more ambitious 
than becoming a discussion forum?


Andre

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

Jed wrote: "No such stage magic tricks exist, or can exist. It is physically 
impossible."

Look, we've had this discussion before, haven't we? It is not only possible, it 
is easy. Compared to fusing Nickel with Hydrogen its less than child's play. 
You don't even need a PCM for that - but even if you you used one it would be 
just standard technology. All you have is Rossi's word and all your unnamed 
sources (which you trust) have, is Rossi's word. The word of a man you think 
doesn't have any credibility. I see the point that one would have to judge the 
claims independently from the man - but as long as the claims haven't been 
verified independently, you just can't.

I don't know what you mean saying "It has been done repeatedly thousands of 
miles from him...". Defkalion and the guy you know and trust who has "seen" it 
but doesn't really have more than the word of somebody who still DOES have some 
credibility - at least when given the benefit of doubt?

I'm tempted to invite you to our lab. They're developing a light PCM solution 
which we'll integrate into the coolant cycles of our smaller diesel engines in 
order to help them getting up to operation temperatures on a cold start - 
replacing the voluminous thermos bottle kind of arrangement we've been using 
before. When you hear the numbers you'll probably be totally convinced that it 
must be LENR. Not sure I can find somebody there who's so un-credible as to 
claim that though. What they WILL tell you, however, is that the coolant 
reaches up to 107 C under load. Mind you, it never converts to steam but if you 
used Rossi's math you could easily prove that our diesel engines produce more 
energy than they consume - a lot more - overunity. Maybe I should invite 
Sterling Allan instead.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

How sad Aussie Guy.
I really feel bad for you.
Regards to the dog!

(don't forget to respond to that bankruptcy notice, no more first class flights 
around the world if you don't have a passport)

 From: Aussie Guy E-Cat 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Steven,

Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach with my 
dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our chairman who lives 
not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get my head together. The 
company will not be moving forward with any of my LENR plans as I have not be 
able to produce a working device. Good news is I still have a job.

AG

On 20/01/2012 3:10 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote:
> 
> Chill out.
> 
> Regards
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> www.OrionWorks.com
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
> 
>

[Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson