subject:"Re\: \[Vo\]\:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment\!"

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most important
blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New Energy
Times

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the day
following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to be
called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which was
behind a door in another room.

Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
keV.

Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the formula
would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a quarter
million per second - not good!

However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
E-cat saying “the reaction has started”.

Whatever happened that day, Francesco Celani started investigating
surface modified transition metals with hydrogen the following month.
Inverse Square Law

To help understand the inverse square law we made this little video.

Comparing the 1100

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no gammas
were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the day
following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to
be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which
was behind a door in another room.

Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
keV.

Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the
formula would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a
quarter million per second - not good!

However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
E-cat saying “the reaction has started”.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected
by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were
not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to
be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which
was behind a door in another room.

Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
keV.

He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120
because of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set the
detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.

Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the
formula would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a
quarter million per second - not good!

However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
E-cat saying

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[UPDATE #1] Jean-Paul Biberian independently replicates MFMP finding
inside 24 hours

Jean-Paul Biberian, who was forwarded by a follower an advance pdf of the
‘Gamma’ blogpost that was sent out to donors 12 hours earlier, was so
interested in the finding, that he put his schedule to one side and decided
to independently immediately look for Gammas himself.

The wire was not produced by Celani, it was only simply treated by joule
heating cycles by Mathieu. Wire used was 25µm constantan wire. We can later
provide the script programmed on an arduino that performed this task.

The hydrogen gas was provided by a different source which may negate
questions surrounding some contaminant in the MFMP mini cans.

The Geiger counter which was used was an identical model to the one used by
MFMP which makes it is a more direct replication. That being said, this is
still not telling us the burst length and decay and the Gamma energies
involved.

He mentioned that background radiation was 18 to 20 CPM before the
experiment, after hydrogen was introduced he put 125mA into the wire, he
observed 40 to 50 CPM slowly decreasing over time, this is more akin to
what Mathieu observed in the early weeks of the EU cell test and the
pattern of burst and decay is in line with what was observed and video
recorded last week.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group.
A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected
by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up
were
not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group.
A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected
by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up
were
not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to
be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which
was behind a door in another room.

Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
keV.

He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120
because of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set
the
detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.

Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 1000+
counts PER SECOND and sounded their alarms (they could not show any more).
Several of the invited observers considered literally running from the
building as it was speculated that Rossi might be leveraging a radioactive
source in his experiment. Why such concern? Well, radiation falls off
according to Newtons 1/d^2 law as you can see here.

Plugging the minimum 1000

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation regardless.
Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was
expected
by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up
were
not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a
fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting
to be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat
which was behind a door in another room.

Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
keV.

He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120
because

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

My bad assumption, the effort is directed toward the Celani cell.

Let me restate.

IMHO, working on a non-Nano powder passed reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a non-nanopowder bases cell has no hope of doing so.

[image: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif]

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was
expected
by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up
were
not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a
fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting
to be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat
which was behind a door in another room.

Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
keV.

He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120
because of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set
the
detectors accordingly and the assembled group

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

The LENR researcher trying to say what someone else is doing is
counterproductive and misguided. Juicy.

Reminds me of how african americans were so happy to discriminate against
gays.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

My bad assumption, the effort is directed toward the Celani cell.

Let me restate.

IMHO, working on a non-Nano powder passed reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a non-nanopowder bases cell has no hope of doing so.

[image: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif]

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley
kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was
expected
by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up
were
not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a
fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting
to be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat
which was behind a door in another room.

Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation regardless.
Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley
kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was
expected
by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up
were
not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a
fresh
account of that event.

Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting
to be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat
which was

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

Nobody has replicated what Rossi has done and he doesn't share what he
does.

Frankly, that's what's really useless here.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
wrote:

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
regardless. Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to
follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley
kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
(LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin
gamma ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was
expected by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from
that
set up were not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in
the day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

DGT has replicated Rossi and has gone beyond him. IMHO.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

Nobody has replicated what Rossi has done and he doesn't share what he
does.

Frankly, that's what's really useless here.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
think it makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
regardless. Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to
follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com
wrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
(LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin
gamma ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that
was
expected by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from
that
set up were not meaningful during the guests

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

We know that wings on airplanes work, and wheels on cars also work, why do
you want to build a new aircraft without wings and a new car without
wheels?

We know how LENR works well and why reinvent it with a new unproven
technology?.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

Nobody has replicated what Rossi has done and he doesn't share what he
does.

Frankly, that's what's really useless here.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
think it makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
regardless. Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to
follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com
wrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
(LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin
gamma ray

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is constrained
by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real world.

If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
over that.

RE: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

2013-11-07 Thread Bob Higgins

I believe the MFMP attempt to detect gamma is the correct thing to do.  From
my own personal experience, I can say that proving that the heat in your
test is from a nuclear process is a high hurdle.  When you first begin
generating LENR, you likely will not be optimized to the point where very
much heat is being generated, let alone enough heat to prove a nuclear
source over a chemical process.

 

On the other hand, there have been wide reports of gammas of various energy.
Focardi reported gammas.  Storms reported gammas.  By definition gamma is
photon radiation from a nucleus, BUT it may have energy that is in the X-ray
range.  Optimizing your setup to detect low energy, low level gamma does 2
things.  First it proves that you are realizing a nuclear process (chemical
reactions dont produce gamma).  Second, it gives you a sensitive metric to
begin your optimization (though it could  lead in a false direction, failing
to deliver you to the high heat reaction channel).

 

My hypothesis is that the output of heat optimized LENR is a low energy
gamma that is quickly absorbed in the apparatus (5keV-25keV).  There are
numerous evidences in the data from reported experiments that the reaction
produces a photonic output (for example, large-scale vs. nano-scale
heating/explosions).  

 

You have to carefully design your test apparatus to be successful in
detection low energy gamma.  Even thin walls will block photons with
energies below 10keV.  By 20keV a detectable number are escaping a 30 mil
thick stainless wall.

 

If the output photon energy is less than 25 keV, then little would escape a
Rossi or Defkalion reactor  they would all be absorbed in the vessel walls
and be converted to heat.  So dont take their lack of reported emissions as
evidence there isnt any gamma. 

 

From a product perspective, dont forget that CRTs produce X-rays in this
energy range.  The CRTs were later designed to have leaded glass to minimize
the emissions, but they first shipped with the emissions.  Even many of the
older high voltage rectifier tubes produced X-rays.  So, there is nothing
about having a primary reaction channel yielding low energy gamma that would
prevent a shipping product.  A bigger concern for product would be if the
primary reaction channel produces tritium.

 

From: Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:54 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

 

[UPDATE #1] Jean-Paul Biberian independently replicates MFMP finding inside
24 hours

Jean-Paul Biberian, who was forwarded by a follower an advance pdf of the
Gamma blogpost that was sent out to donors 12 hours earlier, was so
interested in the finding, that he put his schedule to one side and decided
to independently immediately look for Gammas himself.

The wire was not produced by Celani, it was only simply treated by joule
heating cycles by Mathieu. Wire used was 25µm constantan wire. We can later
provide the script programmed on an arduino that performed this task.

The hydrogen gas was provided by a different source which may negate
questions surrounding some contaminant in the MFMP mini cans.

The Geiger counter which was used was an identical model to the one used by
MFMP which makes it is a more direct replication. That being said, this is
still not telling us the burst length and decay and the Gamma energies
involved.

He mentioned that background radiation was 18 to 20 CPM before the
experiment, after hydrogen was introduced he put 125mA into the wire, he
observed 40 to 50 CPM slowly decreasing over time, this is more akin to what
Mathieu observed in the early weeks of the EU cell test and the pattern of
burst and decay is in line with what was observed and video recorded last
week.

 

 

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
reaction.

 A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what you
generally learn to do before you generate fire.

 

 

These LENR workers are misguided. 

Your ad hominem not so great.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
and alpha particles.



After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by all
and sundry.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is constrained
 by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

He (and most cold fusion researchers) are regarded as mad because nobody
mainstream believes that radiation was generated.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by all
 and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

This is true, So what purpose does it serve to show it?


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 He (and most cold fusion researchers) are regarded as mad because nobody
 mainstream believes that radiation was generated.

 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
 all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

2013-11-07 Thread Jed Rothwell

Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote:

I believe the MFMP attempt to detect gamma is the correct thing to do.


I agree, for the reasons you listed plus one more: it would help convince
some fence-sitting people who are leaning toward belief.



 When you first begin generating LENR, you likely will not be optimized to
 the point where very much heat is being generated, let alone enough heat to
 prove a nuclear source over a chemical process.


That may be true. There is some evidence that neutrons are anti-correlated
with heat, so they might be a precursor product from a partially loaded
cathode. Takahashi thought that might be the case. Storms pointed out that
cathodes are unevenly loaded, so you might expect both neutrons and heat.



 Optimizing your setup to detect low energy, low level gamma does 2
 things.  First it proves that you are realizing a nuclear process (chemical
 reactions don’t produce gamma).  Second, it gives you a sensitive metric to
 begin your optimization (though it could  lead in a false direction,
 failing to deliver you to the high heat reaction channel).


Yes. If gamma rays are caused by a cathode that is not ready to produce
heat -- say because it is not loaded enough -- then you don't want to
optimize gamma production. It would lead you down the wrong path. You would
be optimizing to prevent heat production. Fleischmann thought that McKubre
was doing this with the calorimeter designed to stay at one temperature.
Fleischmann thought that a heat pulse is a good way to trigger the reaction.


From a product perspective, don’t forget that CRT’s produce X-rays in this
 energy range.  The CRTs were later designed to have leaded glass to
 minimize the emissions . . .


Good point.



 A bigger concern for product would be if the primary reaction channel
 produces tritium.


A small amount of tritium would be okay. There are products such as exit
signs with tritium in them. It can be reliably contained.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
wrote:

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
regardless. Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to
follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley
kevmol...@gmail.comwrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
(LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin
gamma ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was
expected by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from
that
set up were not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in
the day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

2013-11-07 Thread Jed Rothwell

James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
 scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.


True! That would mean it is real.

The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles, because,
they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments and
articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist. He
pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.

One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

WELL I dunno about eating its hat. They certain didn't freak out when
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectric_fusion was published.

I think until significant heat is generated, the establishment won't feel
particularly bad about itself.

But this will certainly move things in the right direction.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
think it makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
regardless. Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to
follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com
wrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
(LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
Energy Times

In this article,

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles, because,
they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments and
articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist. He
pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.


Lol.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
 scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.


 True! That would mean it is real.

 The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles, because,
 they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments and
 articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist. He
 pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
 admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.

 One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

The scientific establishment just wants to keep the RD money coming in for
fusion and nuclear research.

LENR can be a proliferation danger by enhancing U235 concentration and
destroying U232 whose risk their ideology may work to ignore.

Paraphrasing POTUS Bush:

Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat
that LENR represents. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for
the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a
mushroom cloud.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
think it makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
regardless. Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
accidentally.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO, working on the FP cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a FP cell has nor hope of doing so.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.

These LENR workers are misguided.

Your ad hominem not so great.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.

The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
failing wood fire reaction.

A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.

In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
gammas.

In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
gammas.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
definitively.

From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to
follow
the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a
very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
important blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of
now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com
wrote:

*Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
(LENR).*

http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Ekevmo/

Gamma

on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited
group. A
short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

Its precisely such humor that would force them to eat their hats if the NRC
regulated LENR research.  They'd become the butt of jokes in the popular
press.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
 because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
 and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
 He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
 admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
 

 Lol.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
 scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.


 True! That would mean it is real.

 The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
 because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
 and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
 He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
 admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.

 One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

Yeah, but the vast majority of the universe would probably fail to see the
irony.   They'd just think it was just science learning something new but
not really relevant (since no heat energy was being generated).

However, those in the know will get it, and certainly look at this all
afresh, which is the point - I think.   To attract investment money /
researchers into this field.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Its precisely such humor that would force them to eat their hats if the
 NRC regulated LENR research.  They'd become the butt of jokes in the
 popular press.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:

 The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
 because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
 and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
 He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
 admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
 

 Lol.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
 scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.


 True! That would mean it is real.

 The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
 because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
 and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
 He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
 admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.

 One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be done
for $250 why has no one else done it?

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by all
 and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is what
he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
through what he when through..


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be done
 for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
 all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is what
 he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be done
 for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
 all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
replication as beneficial use and must, therefore, be licensed by the
patent owner.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
 LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
 what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
 done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
 all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be 
 all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
 replication as beneficial use and must, therefore, be licensed by the
 patent owner.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
 LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
 what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
 done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
 all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be 
 all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
 LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
 replication as beneficial use and must, therefore, be licensed by the
 patent owner.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
 LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
 what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
 done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of 
 neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman
 by all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be 
 all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

I was querying Axil's original claim:

If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
and alpha particles.

Which made it sound like such an experiment was possible. As it isn't
possible because LeClair won't allow it then the assertion  they only need
to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor is pointless.

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
 LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
 replication as beneficial use and must, therefore, be licensed by the
 patent owner.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to
 replicate LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
 what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
 done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.comwrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A 
 year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of 
 neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman
 by all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical 
 real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd 
 be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

LeClair wants to use patent law to be a gatekeeper for his technology. But
we all know that LENR is not patentable.

If you wanted to replicate LeClair's reactor, you might be involved in a
legal wrangle with him. But you might have a case to dispute the patent in
that LENR does not exist.

One might need to study the patent to see what is claimed and what has
actually been patented. We know LENR cannot be patented.

A determined experimenter might find a way to overcome LeClair’s controls.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 I was querying Axil's original claim:

 If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.

 Which made it sound like such an experiment was possible. As it isn't
 possible because LeClair won't allow it then the assertion  they only need
 to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor is pointless.

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
 LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
 replication as beneficial use and must, therefore, be licensed by the
 patent owner.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to
 replicate LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
 what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
 done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.comwrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need
 to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A
 year in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid 
 them
 of their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of
 neutrons and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman
 by all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical 
 real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd 
 be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

You can replicate anything you please without permission if you're not
selling whatever it is. If the patent details how to build a LeClair system
and it's clear from the patent how to do it and it only costs $250 then it
is inconceivable that someone wouldn't try to replicate it.

I call bullshit on the original assertion that anyone could build a working
LeClair system.

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair wants to use patent law to be a gatekeeper for his technology. But
 we all know that LENR is not patentable.

 If you wanted to replicate LeClair's reactor, you might be involved in a
 legal wrangle with him. But you might have a case to dispute the patent in
 that LENR does not exist.

 One might need to study the patent to see what is claimed and what has
 actually been patented. We know LENR cannot be patented.

 A determined experimenter might find a way to overcome LeClair’s controls.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 I was querying Axil's original claim:

 If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.

 Which made it sound like such an experiment was possible. As it isn't
 possible because LeClair won't allow it then the assertion  they only need
 to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor is pointless.

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
 LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.comwrote:

 I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
 replication as beneficial use and must, therefore, be licensed by the
 patent owner.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to
 replicate LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That
 is what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says 
 that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody 
 go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can
 be done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.comwrote:

  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need
 to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. 
 A
 year in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid 
 them
 of their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of
 neutrons and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a
 madman by all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
 blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical 
 real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd 
 be all
 over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

2013-11-07 Thread Eric Walker

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
 LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.


One should resist putting LeClair's claims in the same basket as those of
McKubre, Miles, Storms, etc., as well as Rossi and DGT.  LeClair may have
something, and he may not.  I have not personally looked into his claims.
 I can say that some of the stuff he's said sounds pretty far-out (as
reported by David Zweig [1]):

The experiment gave off powerful crested cnoid de Broglie Matter wave
 soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and followed the Jacobi
 Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of large doubly-periodic
 vortices. Hundreds of wave trains and vortices appeared everywhere and are
 permanently burned into walls, objects and trees surrounding the lab.


Eric


[1] http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cold-fusion-comedy.html

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!