Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Looks like they can't reproduce:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/general-updates/348-the-hug-quest-for-gammas-and-more

Suspect cosmic / background radiation.

Interesting how Jean-Paul Biberian replicated it.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote:

> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.
>
> From FB:
>
> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>
> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>
> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU cells
> over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive Thallium
> doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow the
> evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies, repeatably
> that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
> significant find.
>
> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
> important blog posts in our short history.
>
> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>
> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>>
>> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
>> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
>> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>>
>>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>>> experiment*
>>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>>> 
>>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Gamma
>>>
>>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. A
>>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>>
>>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
>>> Energy Times
>>>
>>> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma ray
>>> detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected by
>>> Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were
>>> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>>>
>>> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the day
>>> following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
>>> account of that event.
>>>
>>> Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to
>>> be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which
>>> was behind a door in another room.
>>>
>>> Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
>>> expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
>>> keV.
>>>
>>> He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120 because
>>> of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set the
>>> detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.
>>>
>>> Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 1000+ counts
>>> PER SECOND and sounded their alarms (they could not show any more). Several
>>> of the invited observers considered literally running from the building as
>>> it was speculated that Rossi might be leveraging a radioactive source in
>>> his experiment. Why such concern? Well, radiation falls off according to
>>> Newtons 1/d^2 law as you can see here.
>>>
>>> Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the
>>> formula would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a
>>> quarter million per second - not good!
>>>
>>> However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
>>> later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
>>> E-cat saying “the reaction has started”.
>>>
>>> Francesco and the rest of the invited guests then went into the room
>>> where the E-Cat was. Whilst in that room and using the NaI(TI) near the
>>> operating reactor, there was a 50-100% count increase over background which
>>> was erratic. Francesco decided to try and get a spectra from the detector,
>>> in order to understand what might be going on and so he switched mode on
>>> the detector. Rossi however saw what he was doing, got upset and Celani was
>>> told to stop the measurements, which he did.
>>>
>>> In addition, Celani said that he noted a number of gas cylinders in the
>>> room – but that it would only be speculation to say what they were. If
>>> E-Cats do indeed produc

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Jed Rothwell]

Mark Gibbs  wrote:


> I can't find any references to "cnoid" anything let alone "cnoid de
> Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages" ... if anyone has any links
> or explanations of what this means (or is supposed to mean) I'd love to
> hear it.
>

The Duke of Ellington explained what this means:

It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing
(doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah)
It don't mean a thing all you got to do is sing
(doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah)

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Jones Beene]

On vortex, we must pay homage to Robert Anton Wilson periodically 

... probably preferable to paying cnotes for fromage...


-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton 

Mark Gibbs wrote:

> I'm not really qualified to evaluate phrases such as "powerful crested
cnoid
> de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and
> followed the Jacobi Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of
large
> doubly-periodic vortices" but I can't find any references to "cnoid"
> anything let alone "cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages"
...
> if anyone has any links or explanations of what this means (or is supposed
> to mean) I'd love to hear it.

I'm sure it's something akin to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
> I'm not really qualified to evaluate phrases such as "powerful crested cnoid
> de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and
> followed the Jacobi Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of large
> doubly-periodic vortices" but I can't find any references to "cnoid"
> anything let alone "cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages" ...
> if anyone has any links or explanations of what this means (or is supposed
> to mean) I'd love to hear it.

I'm sure it's something akin to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

I think the double solitons are as follows:


FALACO solitons

http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0101/0101098.pdf


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyjwZ39EDmw






On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> I'm not really qualified to evaluate phrases such as "powerful crested
> cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages that were doubly
> periodic and followed the Jacobi Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the
> form of large doubly-periodic vortices" but I can't find any references to
> "cnoid" anything let alone "cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave
> packages" ... if anyone has any links or explanations of what this means
> (or is supposed to mean) I'd love to hear it.
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>> So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
>>> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>>>
>>
>> One should resist putting LeClair's claims in the same basket as those of
>> McKubre, Miles, Storms, etc., as well as Rossi and DGT.  LeClair may have
>> something, and he may not.  I have not personally looked into his claims.
>>  I can say that some of the stuff he's said sounds pretty far-out (as
>> reported by David Zweig [1]):
>>
>> The experiment gave off powerful crested cnoid de Broglie Matter wave
>>> soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and followed the Jacobi
>>> Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of large doubly-periodic
>>> vortices. Hundreds of wave trains and vortices appeared everywhere and are
>>> permanently burned into walls, objects and trees surrounding the lab.
>>
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> [1] http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cold-fusion-comedy.html
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

To start with take a look at this :

Amini, F., *The Study of Cavitation Bubble-Surface Plasmon Resonance
Interaction For LENR and Biochemical processes*. 2013, LENR-CANR.org.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/AminiFthestudyof.pdf


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> I'm not really qualified to evaluate phrases such as "powerful crested
> cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages that were doubly
> periodic and followed the Jacobi Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the
> form of large doubly-periodic vortices" but I can't find any references to
> "cnoid" anything let alone "cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave
> packages" ... if anyone has any links or explanations of what this means
> (or is supposed to mean) I'd love to hear it.
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>> So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
>>> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>>>
>>
>> One should resist putting LeClair's claims in the same basket as those of
>> McKubre, Miles, Storms, etc., as well as Rossi and DGT.  LeClair may have
>> something, and he may not.  I have not personally looked into his claims.
>>  I can say that some of the stuff he's said sounds pretty far-out (as
>> reported by David Zweig [1]):
>>
>> The experiment gave off powerful crested cnoid de Broglie Matter wave
>>> soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and followed the Jacobi
>>> Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of large doubly-periodic
>>> vortices. Hundreds of wave trains and vortices appeared everywhere and are
>>> permanently burned into walls, objects and trees surrounding the lab.
>>
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> [1] http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cold-fusion-comedy.html
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

https://nanospireinc.com/Fusion.html


I kid you not.

The LeClair reactor is just a water pump and some plastic pipe. See the
pictures at the bottom of the reference for some examples.




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> You can replicate anything you please without permission if you're not
> selling whatever it is. If the patent details how to build a LeClair system
> and it's clear from the patent how to do it and it only costs $250 then it
> is inconceivable that someone wouldn't try to replicate it.
>
> I call bullshit on the original assertion that anyone could build a
> working LeClair system.
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> LeClair wants to use patent law to be a gatekeeper for his technology.
>> But we all know that LENR is not patentable.
>>
>> If you wanted to replicate LeClair's reactor, you might be involved in a
>> legal wrangle with him. But you might have a case to dispute the patent in
>> that LENR does not exist.
>>
>> One might need to study the patent to see what is claimed and what has
>> actually been patented. We know LENR cannot be patented.
>>
>> A determined experimenter might find a way to overcome LeClair’s controls.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>>> I was querying Axil's original claim:
>>>
>>> "If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
>>> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
>>> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
>>> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
>>> and alpha particles."
>>>
>>> Which made it sound like such an experiment was possible. As it isn't
>>> possible because LeClair won't allow it then the assertion " they only need
>>> to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor" is pointless.
>>>
>>> [m]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>>
 That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>
>> I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
>> replication as "beneficial use" and must, therefore, be licensed by the
>> patent owner.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>>> But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to
>>> replicate LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?
>>>
>>> [m]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil wrote:
>>>
 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That
 is what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says 
 that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody 
 go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:

> Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can
> be done for $250 why has no one else done it?
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil wrote:
>
>>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need
>> to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do 
>> it. A
>> year in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid 
>> them
>> of their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of
>> neutrons and alpha particles.
>>
>>
>>
>> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a
>> madman by all and sundry.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical 
>>> real
>>> world.
>>>
>>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure 
>>> they'd be all
>>> over that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Mark Gibbs]

I'm not really qualified to evaluate phrases such as "powerful crested
cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave packages that were doubly
periodic and followed the Jacobi Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the
form of large doubly-periodic vortices" but I can't find any references to
"cnoid" anything let alone "cnoid de Broglie Matter wave soliton wave
packages" ... if anyone has any links or explanations of what this means
(or is supposed to mean) I'd love to hear it.

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>
> So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
>> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>>
>
> One should resist putting LeClair's claims in the same basket as those of
> McKubre, Miles, Storms, etc., as well as Rossi and DGT.  LeClair may have
> something, and he may not.  I have not personally looked into his claims.
>  I can say that some of the stuff he's said sounds pretty far-out (as
> reported by David Zweig [1]):
>
> The experiment gave off powerful crested cnoid de Broglie Matter wave
>> soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and followed the Jacobi
>> Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of large doubly-periodic
>> vortices. Hundreds of wave trains and vortices appeared everywhere and are
>> permanently burned into walls, objects and trees surrounding the lab.
>
>
> Eric
>
>
> [1] http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cold-fusion-comedy.html
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>

One should resist putting LeClair's claims in the same basket as those of
McKubre, Miles, Storms, etc., as well as Rossi and DGT.  LeClair may have
something, and he may not.  I have not personally looked into his claims.
 I can say that some of the stuff he's said sounds pretty far-out (as
reported by David Zweig [1]):

The experiment gave off powerful crested cnoid de Broglie Matter wave
> soliton wave packages that were doubly periodic and followed the Jacobi
> Elliptic functions exactly, mostly in the form of large doubly-periodic
> vortices. Hundreds of wave trains and vortices appeared everywhere and are
> permanently burned into walls, objects and trees surrounding the lab.


Eric


[1] http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cold-fusion-comedy.html

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Mark Gibbs]

You can replicate anything you please without permission if you're not
selling whatever it is. If the patent details how to build a LeClair system
and it's clear from the patent how to do it and it only costs $250 then it
is inconceivable that someone wouldn't try to replicate it.

I call bullshit on the original assertion that anyone could build a working
LeClair system.

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> LeClair wants to use patent law to be a gatekeeper for his technology. But
> we all know that LENR is not patentable.
>
> If you wanted to replicate LeClair's reactor, you might be involved in a
> legal wrangle with him. But you might have a case to dispute the patent in
> that LENR does not exist.
>
> One might need to study the patent to see what is claimed and what has
> actually been patented. We know LENR cannot be patented.
>
> A determined experimenter might find a way to overcome LeClair’s controls.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>
>> I was querying Axil's original claim:
>>
>> "If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
>> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
>> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
>> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
>> and alpha particles."
>>
>> Which made it sound like such an experiment was possible. As it isn't
>> possible because LeClair won't allow it then the assertion " they only need
>> to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor" is pointless.
>>
>> [m]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>
>>> That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>>
 So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
 LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery wrote:

> I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
> replication as "beneficial use" and must, therefore, be licensed by the
> patent owner.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>
>> But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to
>> replicate LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?
>>
>> [m]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That
>>> is what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says 
>>> that
>>> replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody 
>>> go
>>> through what he when through..
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>>
 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can
 be done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil wrote:

>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need
> to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. 
> A
> year in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid 
> them
> of their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of
> neutrons and alpha particles.
>
>
>
> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a
> madman by all and sundry.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical 
>> real
>> world.
>>
>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd 
>> be all
>> over that.
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

LeClair wants to use patent law to be a gatekeeper for his technology. But
we all know that LENR is not patentable.

If you wanted to replicate LeClair's reactor, you might be involved in a
legal wrangle with him. But you might have a case to dispute the patent in
that LENR does not exist.

One might need to study the patent to see what is claimed and what has
actually been patented. We know LENR cannot be patented.

A determined experimenter might find a way to overcome LeClair’s controls.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> I was querying Axil's original claim:
>
> "If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
> and alpha particles."
>
> Which made it sound like such an experiment was possible. As it isn't
> possible because LeClair won't allow it then the assertion " they only need
> to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor" is pointless.
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>>> So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
>>> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>>>
>>> [m]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>>
 I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
 replication as "beneficial use" and must, therefore, be licensed by the
 patent owner.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to
> replicate LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
>> what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
>> replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
>> through what he when through..
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>>> Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
>>> done for $250 why has no one else done it?
>>>
>>> [m]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil wrote:
>>>
  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need
 to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A
 year in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid 
 them
 of their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of
 neutrons and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman
 by all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical 
> real
> world.
>
> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd 
> be all
> over that.
>
>

>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Mark Gibbs]

I was querying Axil's original claim:

"If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
and alpha particles."

Which made it sound like such an experiment was possible. As it isn't
possible because LeClair won't allow it then the assertion " they only need
to replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor" is pointless.

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

> That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>
>> So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
>> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>>
>> [m]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>
>>> I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
>>> replication as "beneficial use" and must, therefore, be licensed by the
>>> patent owner.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>>
 But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to
 replicate LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
> what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
> replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
> through what he when through..
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>
>> Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
>> done for $250 why has no one else done it?
>>
>> [m]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil wrote:
>>
>>>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
>>> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A 
>>> year
>>> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
>>> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of 
>>> neutrons
>>> and alpha particles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman
>>> by all and sundry.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical 
 real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd 
 be all
 over that.


>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[James Bowery]

That's the logical implication of what Axil's saying.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
> LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
>> replication as "beneficial use" and must, therefore, be licensed by the
>> patent owner.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>>> But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
>>> LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?
>>>
>>> [m]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
 what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
 replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
 through what he when through..


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
> done for $250 why has no one else done it?
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
>> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
>> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
>> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of 
>> neutrons
>> and alpha particles.
>>
>>
>>
>> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman
>> by all and sundry.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
>>> world.
>>>
>>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be 
>>> all
>>> over that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Mark Gibbs]

So, in reality, the LeClair effect can't be duplicated either because
LeClair won't permit it or because it doesn't actually exist.

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:01 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

> I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
> replication as "beneficial use" and must, therefore, be licensed by the
> patent owner.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>
>> But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
>> LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?
>>
>> [m]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
>>> what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
>>> replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
>>> through what he when through..
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>>
 Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
 done for $250 why has no one else done it?

 [m]


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
> and alpha particles.
>
>
>
> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
> all and sundry.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
>> world.
>>
>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be 
>> all
>> over that.
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[James Bowery]

I think what Axil is saying is that LeClair is claiming research
replication as "beneficial use" and must, therefore, be licensed by the
patent owner.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
> LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is
>> what he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
>> replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
>> through what he when through..
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>
>>> Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be
>>> done for $250 why has no one else done it?
>>>
>>> [m]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
 replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
 in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
 their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
 and alpha particles.



 After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
 all and sundry.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
> world.
>
> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be 
> all
> over that.
>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Mark Gibbs]

But that doesn't answer the question: If it only costs $250 to replicate
LeClair's experiment why hasn't it been done?

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is what
> he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
> replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
> through what he when through..
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>
>> Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be done
>> for $250 why has no one else done it?
>>
>> [m]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
>>> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
>>> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
>>> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
>>> and alpha particles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
>>> all and sundry.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
 constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
 world.

 If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
 tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
 over that.


>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

LeClair has patented the whole process including replication. That is what
he states, I don't know if this statement holds water. He says that
replication is extremely dangerous and he does not want to see anybody go
through what he when through..


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be done
> for $250 why has no one else done it?
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
>> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
>> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
>> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
>> and alpha particles.
>>
>>
>>
>> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
>> all and sundry.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
>>> world.
>>>
>>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
>>> over that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Mark Gibbs]

Really? Is LeClair's experiment that easily replicated? If it can be done
for $250 why has no one else done it?

[m]


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
> and alpha particles.
>
>
>
> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by all
> and sundry.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
>> world.
>>
>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
>> over that.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Yeah, but the vast majority of the universe would probably fail to see the
irony.   They'd just think it was just science learning something new but
not really relevant (since no heat energy was being generated).

However, those in the know will get it, and certainly look at this all
afresh, which is the point - I think.   To attract investment money /
researchers into this field.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

> Its precisely such humor that would force them to eat their hats if the
> NRC regulated LENR research.  They'd become the butt of jokes in the
> popular press.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
> wrote:
>
>> "The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
>> because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
>> and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
>> He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
>> admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
>> "
>>
>> Lol.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>>
>>> James Bowery  wrote:
>>>
>>> Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
 scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.

>>>
>>> True! That would mean it is real.
>>>
>>> The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
>>> because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
>>> and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
>>> He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
>>> admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
>>>
>>> One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.
>>>
>>> - Jed
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[James Bowery]

Its precisely such humor that would force them to eat their hats if the NRC
regulated LENR research.  They'd become the butt of jokes in the popular
press.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote:

> "The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
> because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
> and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
> He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
> admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
> "
>
> Lol.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>> James Bowery  wrote:
>>
>> Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
>>> scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.
>>>
>>
>> True! That would mean it is real.
>>
>> The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles,
>> because, they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments
>> and articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist.
>> He pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
>> admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
>>
>> One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

The scientific establishment just wants to keep the R&D money coming in for
fusion and nuclear research.

LENR can be a proliferation danger by enhancing U235 concentration and
destroying U232 whose risk their ideology may work to ignore.

Paraphrasing POTUS Bush:

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat
that LENR represents. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for
the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a
mushroom cloud."




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

> Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
> scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
>> roadblock.
>>
>> Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
>>> interesting contribution to science?
>>>
>>> I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
>>> the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
>>> think it makes sense to follow where it leads.
>>>
>>> Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.
>>>
>>> Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
>>> regardless.   Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
>>> accidentally.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
 counterproductive.

 If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
 party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
> failing wood fire reaction.
>
>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>
> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
> what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>
>
> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>
> Your ad hominem not so great.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
>> on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
>> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
>> failing wood fire reaction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
>>> definitively.
>>>
>>> From FB:
>>>
>>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>>
>>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to 
>>> follow
>>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
>>> very
>>> significant find.
>>>
>>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>>
>>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>>
 The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

 The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
 sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
 now,
 detected unambiguous gamma rays.


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley >>> > wrote:

> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
> experiment*

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

"The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles, because,
they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments and
articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist. He
pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
"

Lol.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> James Bowery  wrote:
>
> Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
>> scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.
>>
>
> True! That would mean it is real.
>
> The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles, because,
> they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments and
> articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist. He
> pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
> admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.
>
> One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

WELL I dunno about eating its hat.   They certain didn't freak out when
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectric_fusion was published.

I think until significant heat is generated, the establishment won't feel
particularly bad about itself.

But this will certainly move things in the right direction.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, James Bowery  wrote:

> Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
> scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
>> roadblock.
>>
>> Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
>>> interesting contribution to science?
>>>
>>> I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
>>> the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
>>> think it makes sense to follow where it leads.
>>>
>>> Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.
>>>
>>> Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
>>> regardless.   Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
>>> accidentally.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
 counterproductive.

 If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
 party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
> failing wood fire reaction.
>
>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>
> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
> what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>
>
> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>
> Your ad hominem not so great.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
>> on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
>> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
>> failing wood fire reaction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
>>> definitively.
>>>
>>> From FB:
>>>
>>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>>
>>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to 
>>> follow
>>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
>>> very
>>> significant find.
>>>
>>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>>
>>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>>
 The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

 The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
 sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
 now,
 detected unambiguous gamma rays.


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley >>> > wrote:

> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
> experiment*
>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
> 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Jed Rothwell]

James Bowery  wrote:

Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
> scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.
>

True! That would mean it is real.

The obverse of that was when the Navy wanted to close down Miles, because,
they said, it might be dangerous. He sent them skeptical comments and
articles from the New York Times claiming cold fusion does not exist. He
pointed out that if it does not exist, it cannot be dangerous. They
admitted he had a good point, so they left him alone.

One of the many hilarious moments in the history of this field.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[James Bowery]

Good grief, Axil. If the NRC roadblocks a LENR system, it means the
scientific establishment has to immediately eat its hat.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
> roadblock.
>
> Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
>> interesting contribution to science?
>>
>> I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
>> wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
>> makes sense to follow where it leads.
>>
>> Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.
>>
>> Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
>> regardless.   Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
>> accidentally.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
>>> counterproductive.
>>>
>>> If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
>>> party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
 reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
 failing wood fire reaction.

  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."

 Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
 what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.


 "These LENR workers are misguided. "

 Your ad hominem not so great.




 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
> on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>
>
>
>
>
> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
> failing wood fire reaction.
>
>
>
>
>
> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
> gammas.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
> gammas.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
>> definitively.
>>
>> From FB:
>>
>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>
>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>
>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to 
>> follow
>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
>> very
>> significant find.
>>
>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>
>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>
>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>
>>> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>>>
>>> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
>>> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
>>> now,
>>> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
 experiment*
  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
 
 * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer



 *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
 incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions 
 (LENR)."*




  

 Gamma

 on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

 On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
 demonstration of the low t

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Jed Rothwell]

Bob Higgins  wrote:

I believe the MFMP attempt to detect gamma is the correct thing to do.
>

I agree, for the reasons you listed plus one more: it would help convince
some fence-sitting people who are leaning toward belief.



> When you first begin generating LENR, you likely will not be optimized to
> the point where very much heat is being generated, let alone enough heat to
> prove a nuclear source over a chemical process.
>

That may be true. There is some evidence that neutrons are anti-correlated
with heat, so they might be a precursor product from a partially loaded
cathode. Takahashi thought that might be the case. Storms pointed out that
cathodes are unevenly loaded, so you might expect both neutrons and heat.



> Optimizing your setup to detect low energy, low level gamma does 2
> things.  First it proves that you are realizing a nuclear process (chemical
> reactions don’t produce gamma).  Second, it gives you a sensitive metric to
> begin your optimization (though it could  lead in a false direction,
> failing to deliver you to the high heat reaction channel).
>

Yes. If gamma rays are caused by a cathode that is not ready to produce
heat -- say because it is not loaded enough -- then you don't want to
optimize gamma production. It would lead you down the wrong path. You would
be optimizing to prevent heat production. Fleischmann thought that McKubre
was doing this with the calorimeter designed to stay at one temperature.
Fleischmann thought that a heat pulse is a good way to trigger the reaction.


>From a product perspective, don’t forget that CRT’s produce X-rays in this
> energy range.  The CRTs were later designed to have leaded glass to
> minimize the emissions . . .
>

Good point.



> A bigger concern for product would be if the primary reaction channel
> produces tritium.
>

A small amount of tritium would be okay. There are products such as exit
signs with tritium in them. It can be reliably contained.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

This is true, So what purpose does it serve to show it?


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote:

> He (and most cold fusion researchers) are regarded as mad because nobody
> mainstream believes that radiation was generated.
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
>> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
>> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
>> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
>> and alpha particles.
>>
>>
>>
>> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by
>> all and sundry.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
>>> world.
>>>
>>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
>>> over that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

He (and most cold fusion researchers) are regarded as mad because nobody
mainstream believes that radiation was generated.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

>  If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
> replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
> in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
> their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
> and alpha particles.
>
>
>
> After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by all
> and sundry.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is
>> constrained by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real
>> world.
>>
>> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
>> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
>> over that.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

If these experimenters wanted to produce gammas, they only need to
replicate the LeClair cavitation reactor. $250 dollars will do it. A year
in the hospital from radiation exposure should be enough to rid them of
their obsession from gamma radiation. They may also get a dose of neutrons
and alpha particles.



After that, they will be where LeClair is now, regarded as a madman by all
and sundry.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is constrained
> by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real world.
>
> If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
> tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
> over that.
>
>

RE: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Bob Higgins]

I believe the MFMP attempt to detect gamma is the correct thing to do.  From
my own personal experience, I can say that proving that the heat in your
test is from a nuclear process is a high hurdle.  When you first begin
generating LENR, you likely will not be optimized to the point where very
much heat is being generated, let alone enough heat to prove a nuclear
source over a chemical process.

 

On the other hand, there have been wide reports of gammas of various energy.
Focardi reported gammas.  Storms reported gammas.  By definition gamma is
photon radiation from a nucleus, BUT it may have energy that is in the X-ray
range.  Optimizing your setup to detect low energy, low level gamma does 2
things.  First it proves that you are realizing a nuclear process (chemical
reactions don’t produce gamma).  Second, it gives you a sensitive metric to
begin your optimization (though it could  lead in a false direction, failing
to deliver you to the high heat reaction channel).

 

My hypothesis is that the output of heat optimized LENR is a low energy
gamma that is quickly absorbed in the apparatus (5keV-25keV).  There are
numerous evidences in the data from reported experiments that the reaction
produces a photonic output (for example, large-scale vs. nano-scale
heating/explosions).  

 

You have to carefully design your test apparatus to be successful in
detection low energy gamma.  Even thin walls will block photons with
energies below 10keV.  By 20keV a detectable number are escaping a 30 mil
thick stainless wall.

 

If the output photon energy is less than 25 keV, then little would escape a
Rossi or Defkalion reactor – they would all be absorbed in the vessel walls
and be converted to heat.  So don’t take their lack of reported emissions as
evidence there isn’t any gamma. 

 

>From a product perspective, don’t forget that CRT’s produce X-rays in this
energy range.  The CRTs were later designed to have leaded glass to minimize
the emissions, but they first shipped with the emissions.  Even many of the
older high voltage rectifier tubes produced X-rays.  So, there is nothing
about having a primary reaction channel yielding low energy gamma that would
prevent a shipping product.  A bigger concern for product would be if the
primary reaction channel produces tritium.

 

From: Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:54 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

 

"[UPDATE #1] Jean-Paul Biberian independently replicates MFMP finding inside
24 hours

Jean-Paul Biberian, who was forwarded by a follower an advance pdf of the
‘Gamma’ blogpost that was sent out to donors 12 hours earlier, was so
interested in the finding, that he put his schedule to one side and decided
to independently immediately look for Gammas himself.

The wire was not produced by Celani, it was only simply treated by joule
heating cycles by Mathieu. Wire used was 25µm constantan wire. We can later
provide the script programmed on an arduino that performed this task.

The hydrogen gas was provided by a different source which may negate
questions surrounding some contaminant in the MFMP mini cans.

The Geiger counter which was used was an identical model to the one used by
MFMP which makes it is a more direct replication. That being said, this is
still not telling us the burst length and decay and the Gamma energies
involved.

He mentioned that background radiation was 18 to 20 CPM before the
experiment, after hydrogen was introduced he put 125mA into the wire, he
observed 40 to 50 CPM slowly decreasing over time, this is more akin to what
Mathieu observed in the early weeks of the EU cell test and the pattern of
burst and decay is in line with what was observed and video recorded last
week."

 

 

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

"The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
reaction.

 A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what you
generally learn to do before you generate fire.

 

 

"These LENR workers are misguided. "

Your ad hominem not so great.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Anyways, the reality is (remember that? reality?) that MFMP is constrained
by resources just like everyone else is in the physical real world.

If you have experiments that you would like to see done and
tools/equipment/materials you can give them, I am pretty sure they'd be all
over that.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

We know that wings on airplanes work, and wheels on cars also work, why do
you want to build a new aircraft without wings and a new car without
wheels?



We know how LENR works well and why reinvent it with a new unproven
technology?.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Nobody has replicated what Rossi has done and he doesn't share what he
> does.
>
> Frankly, that's what's really useless here.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
>> roadblock.
>>
>> Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
>>> interesting contribution to science?
>>>
>>> I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
>>> the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
>>> think it makes sense to follow where it leads.
>>>
>>> Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.
>>>
>>> Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
>>> regardless.   Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
>>> accidentally.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
 counterproductive.

 If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
 party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
> failing wood fire reaction.
>
>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>
> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
> what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>
>
> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>
> Your ad hominem not so great.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
>> on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
>> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
>> failing wood fire reaction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
>>> definitively.
>>>
>>> From FB:
>>>
>>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>>
>>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to 
>>> follow
>>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
>>> very
>>> significant find.
>>>
>>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>>
>>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>>
 The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

 The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
 sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
 now,
 detected unambiguous gamma rays.


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley >>> > wrote:

> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
> experiment*
>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
> 
> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

DGT has replicated Rossi and has gone beyond him. IMHO.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Nobody has replicated what Rossi has done and he doesn't share what he
> does.
>
> Frankly, that's what's really useless here.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
>> roadblock.
>>
>> Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
>>> interesting contribution to science?
>>>
>>> I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to
>>> the wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I
>>> think it makes sense to follow where it leads.
>>>
>>> Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.
>>>
>>> Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
>>> regardless.   Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
>>> accidentally.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
 counterproductive.

 If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
 party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
> failing wood fire reaction.
>
>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>
> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
> what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>
>
> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>
> Your ad hominem not so great.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
>> on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
>> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
>> failing wood fire reaction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
>>> definitively.
>>>
>>> From FB:
>>>
>>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>>
>>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to 
>>> follow
>>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
>>> very
>>> significant find.
>>>
>>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>>
>>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>>
 The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

 The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
 sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
 now,
 detected unambiguous gamma rays.


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley >>> > wrote:

> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
> experiment*
>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
> 
> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>
>
>
> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions 
> (LENR)."*

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Nobody has replicated what Rossi has done and he doesn't share what he
does.

Frankly, that's what's really useless here.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
> roadblock.
>
> Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
>> interesting contribution to science?
>>
>> I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
>> wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
>> makes sense to follow where it leads.
>>
>> Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.
>>
>> Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation
>> regardless.   Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even
>> accidentally.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
>>> counterproductive.
>>>
>>> If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
>>> party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
 reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
 failing wood fire reaction.

  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."

 Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually
 what you generally learn to do before you generate fire.


 "These LENR workers are misguided. "

 Your ad hominem not so great.




 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based
> on nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>
>
>
>
>
> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR
> reaction is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a
> failing wood fire reaction.
>
>
>
>
>
> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
> gammas.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
> gammas.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
>> definitively.
>>
>> From FB:
>>
>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>
>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>
>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to 
>> follow
>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
>> very
>> significant find.
>>
>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>
>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>
>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>>
>>> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>>>
>>> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
>>> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
>>> now,
>>> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
 experiment*
  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
 
 * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer



 *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
 incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions 
 (LENR)."*




  

 Gamma

 on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

 On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
 demonstration of the low tempe

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

A LENR reaction that produces gammas is useless because of the NRC
roadblock.

Rossi bent over backward to rid his system of gammas and for good reasons.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
> interesting contribution to science?
>
> I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
> wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
> makes sense to follow where it leads.
>
> Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.
>
> Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation regardless.
>   Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even accidentally.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
>> counterproductive.
>>
>> If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
>> party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>>> fire reaction.
>>>
>>>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>>>
>>> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
>>> you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>>>
>>>
>>> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>>>
>>> Your ad hominem not so great.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
 nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
 people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.





 The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
 is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
 fire reaction.





 A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.





 In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
 gammas.





 In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
 gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
 gammas.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
> definitively.
>
> From FB:
>
> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>
> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>
> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
> very
> significant find.
>
> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
> important blog posts in our short history.
>
> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>
> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>
>> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>>
>> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
>> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
>> now,
>> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>>> experiment*
>>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>>> 
>>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Gamma
>>>
>>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited 
>>> group. A
>>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>>
>>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
>>> Energy Times
>>>
>>> In this article, it is noted that R

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

The LENR researcher trying to say what someone else is doing is
counterproductive and misguided.   Juicy.

Reminds me of how african americans were so happy to discriminate against
gays.




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> My bad assumption, the effort is directed toward the Celani cell.
>
>
>
> Let me restate.
>
>
>
> IMHO, working on a non-Nano powder passed reaction is misguided and
> counterproductive.
>
>
>
> If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
> party test works, a non-nanopowder bases cell has no hope of doing so.
>
> [image: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif]
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
>> counterproductive.
>>
>> If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
>> party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>>> fire reaction.
>>>
>>>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>>>
>>> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
>>> you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>>>
>>>
>>> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>>>
>>> Your ad hominem not so great.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
 nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
 people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.





 The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
 is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
 fire reaction.





 A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.





 In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
 gammas.





 In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
 gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
 gammas.


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
> definitively.
>
> From FB:
>
> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>
> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>
> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a 
> very
> significant find.
>
> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
> important blog posts in our short history.
>
> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>
> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:
>
>> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>>
>> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
>> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of 
>> now,
>> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>>> experiment*
>>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>>> 
>>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Gamma
>>>
>>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited 
>>> group. A
>>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>>
>>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
>>> Energy Times
>>>
>>> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
>>> ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

My bad assumption, the effort is directed toward the Celani cell.



Let me restate.



IMHO, working on a non-Nano powder passed reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.



If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a non-nanopowder bases cell has no hope of doing so.

[image: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif]




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
> counterproductive.
>
> If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
> party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>> fire reaction.
>>
>>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>>
>> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
>> you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>>
>>
>> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>>
>> Your ad hominem not so great.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
>>> nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>>> fire reaction.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>>> gammas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>>> gammas.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
 definitively.

 From FB:

 Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

 http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

 We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
 cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
 Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
 the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
 repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
 significant find.

 The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
 important blog posts in our short history.

 Read the blog post and see more videos here:

 http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:

> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>
> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>> experiment*
>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>> 
>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>
>>
>>
>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> Gamma
>>
>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>
>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited 
>> group. A
>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>
>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
>> Energy Times
>>
>> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
>> ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was 
>> expected
>> by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up 
>> were
>> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>>
>> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
>> day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a 
>> fresh
>> account of that event.
>>
>> Francesco was sitting down with other scientists a

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

If it generates gamma and its replicated you don't think that's an
interesting contribution to science?

I think if something strange and unexpected is happening (at least to the
wide world of science) even if it is orthogonal to your purpose, I think it
makes sense to follow where it leads.

Quite a few great discoveries in science happened that way.

Anyways, frankly, they need to be more careful about radiation regardless.
  Hate to see these really great guys hurt themselves, even accidentally.




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
> counterproductive.
>
> If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
> party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>> fire reaction.
>>
>>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>>
>> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
>> you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>>
>>
>> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>>
>> Your ad hominem not so great.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
>>> nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>>> fire reaction.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>>> gammas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>>> gammas.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet
 definitively.

 From FB:

 Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

 http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

 We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
 cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
 Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
 the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
 repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
 significant find.

 The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
 important blog posts in our short history.

 Read the blog post and see more videos here:

 http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery wrote:

> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>
> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>> experiment*
>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>> 
>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>
>>
>>
>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> Gamma
>>
>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>
>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited 
>> group. A
>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>
>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
>> Energy Times
>>
>> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
>> ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was 
>> expected
>> by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up 
>> were
>> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>>
>> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
>> day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

IMHO, working on the F&P cell and the Pd/D reaction is misguided and
counterproductive.

If we cannot convince nuclear engineers that a Ni/H reactor in a third
party test works, a F&P cell has nor hope of doing so.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
> fire reaction.
>
>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>
> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
> you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>
>
> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>
> Your ad hominem not so great.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
>> nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>> fire reaction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker > > wrote:
>>
>>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.
>>>
>>> From FB:
>>>
>>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>>
>>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
>>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
>>> significant find.
>>>
>>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>>
>>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>>
 The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

 The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
 sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
 detected unambiguous gamma rays.


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:

> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
> experiment*
>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
> 
> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>
>
>
> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>
>
>
>
>  
>
> Gamma
>
> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>
> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. 
> A
> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>
> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
> Energy Times
>
> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
> ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected
> by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up 
> were
> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>
> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
> day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
> account of that event.
>
> Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to
> be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which
> was behind a door in another room.
>
> Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
> expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
> keV.
>
> He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120
> because of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set 
> the
> detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.
>
> Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 100

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

"[UPDATE #1] Jean-Paul Biberian independently replicates MFMP finding
inside 24 hours

Jean-Paul Biberian, who was forwarded by a follower an advance pdf of the
‘Gamma’ blogpost that was sent out to donors 12 hours earlier, was so
interested in the finding, that he put his schedule to one side and decided
to independently immediately look for Gammas himself.

The wire was not produced by Celani, it was only simply treated by joule
heating cycles by Mathieu. Wire used was 25µm constantan wire. We can later
provide the script programmed on an arduino that performed this task.

The hydrogen gas was provided by a different source which may negate
questions surrounding some contaminant in the MFMP mini cans.

The Geiger counter which was used was an identical model to the one used by
MFMP which makes it is a more direct replication. That being said, this is
still not telling us the burst length and decay and the Gamma energies
involved.

He mentioned that background radiation was 18 to 20 CPM before the
experiment, after hydrogen was introduced he put 125mA into the wire, he
observed 40 to 50 CPM slowly decreasing over time, this is more akin to
what Mathieu observed in the early weeks of the EU cell test and the
pattern of burst and decay is in line with what was observed and video
recorded last week."



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote:

> "The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
> fire reaction.
>
>  A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."
>
> Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
> you generally learn to do before you generate fire.
>
>
> "These LENR workers are misguided. "
>
> Your ad hominem not so great.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
>> nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
>> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction
>> is failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood
>> fire reaction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
>> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
>> gammas.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker > > wrote:
>>
>>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.
>>>
>>> From FB:
>>>
>>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>>
>>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU
>>> cells over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive
>>> Thallium doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow
>>> the evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies,
>>> repeatably that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
>>> significant find.
>>>
>>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>>
>>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>>
>>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>>
 The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

 The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
 sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
 detected unambiguous gamma rays.


 On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:

> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
> experiment*
>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
> 
> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>
>
>
> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>
>
>
>
>  
>
> Gamma
>
> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>
> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. 
> A
> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>
> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
> Energy Times
>
> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
> ra

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

"The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
reaction.

 A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless."

Your analogy is great cause being able to generate smoke is usually what
you generally learn to do before you generate fire.


"These LENR workers are misguided. "

Your ad hominem not so great.




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
> nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
> people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.
>
>
>
>
>
> The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
> failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
> reaction.
>
>
>
>
>
> A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any
> gammas.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no
> gammas were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no
> gammas.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
> wrote:
>
>> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.
>>
>> From FB:
>>
>> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>>
>> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>>
>> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU cells
>> over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive Thallium
>> doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow the
>> evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies, repeatably
>> that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
>> significant find.
>>
>> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
>> important blog posts in our short history.
>>
>> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>>
>> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>>
>>> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>>>
>>> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
>>> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
>>> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>>>
 *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
 experiment*
  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
 
 * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer



 *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
 incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*




  

 Gamma

 on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?

 On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
 demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. A
 short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
 demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.

 Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
 Energy Times

 In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma
 ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected
 by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were
 not meaningful during the guests time in the room.

 Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the
 day following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
 account of that event.

 Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to
 be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which
 was behind a door in another room.

 Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
 expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
 keV.

 He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120
 because of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set the
 detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.

 Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 1000+ counts
 PER SECOND and sounded their alarms (they could not show any more). Several
 of the invited observers considered literally running from the building as
 it was speculated that Rossi might be leveraging a radioactive source in
 his experiment. Why such concern? Well, radiation falls off according to
 Newtons 1/d^2 law as you can see here.

 Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into t

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Axil Axil]

These LENR workers are misguided. These guys want an indicator based on
nuclear engineering to prove that LENR is occurring to these nuclear
people. This is a misinformed opinion and uneducated.





The production of gamma radiation is a sure sign that the LENR reaction is
failing, in the same way that smoke is an indicator of a failing wood fire
reaction.





A hot and vigorous wood fire is smokeless.





In the same way, a hot and vigorous LENR reaction is one without any gammas.





In the third party test of Rossi reactor during reactor meltdown, no gammas
were detected. The take away, a vigorous LENR reaction produces no gammas.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote:

> Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.
>
> From FB:
>
> Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?
>
> http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8
>
> We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU cells
> over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive Thallium
> doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow the
> evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies, repeatably
> that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
> significant find.
>
> The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most
> important blog posts in our short history.
>
> Read the blog post and see more videos here:
>
> http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>>
>> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
>> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
>> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>>
>>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>>> experiment*
>>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>>> 
>>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Gamma
>>>
>>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>>
>>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. A
>>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>>
>>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New
>>> Energy Times
>>>
>>> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma ray
>>> detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected by
>>> Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were
>>> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>>>
>>> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the day
>>> following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
>>> account of that event.
>>>
>>> Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to
>>> be called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which
>>> was behind a door in another room.
>>>
>>> Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
>>> expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
>>> keV.
>>>
>>> He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120 because
>>> of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set the
>>> detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.
>>>
>>> Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 1000+ counts
>>> PER SECOND and sounded their alarms (they could not show any more). Several
>>> of the invited observers considered literally running from the building as
>>> it was speculated that Rossi might be leveraging a radioactive source in
>>> his experiment. Why such concern? Well, radiation falls off according to
>>> Newtons 1/d^2 law as you can see here.
>>>
>>> Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the
>>> formula would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a
>>> quarter million per second - not good!
>>>
>>> However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
>>> later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
>>> E-cat saying “the reaction has started”.
>>>
>>> Francesco and the rest of the invited guests then went into the room
>>> where the E-Cat was. Whilst in that room and using the NaI(TI) near the
>>> operating reactor, there was a 50-100% count increase over background which
>>> was erratic. Francesco decided to try and g

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Well no, they have detected gamma rays, but perhaps not yet definitively.

>From FB:

Gamma - the smoking gun of LENR?

http://youtu.be/ehvRxMYczK8

We have seen repeatable bursts of gamma during re-gassing of the EU cells
over the last 2 months and we are preparing a highly sensitive Thallium
doped Sodium Iodide detector NaI(Tl) and a spectrometer to follow the
evidence. If we can see specific non-background gamma energies, repeatably
that maybe even correlate to excess heat, then it will be a very
significant find.

The next few months may, in retrospect, make this one of the most important
blog posts in our short history.

Read the blog post and see more videos here:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/follow/follow-2/347-gamma


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>
> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>> experiment*
>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>> 
>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>
>>
>>
>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> Gamma
>>
>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>
>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. A
>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>
>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New Energy
>> Times
>>
>> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma ray
>> detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected by
>> Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were
>> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>>
>> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the day
>> following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
>> account of that event.
>>
>> Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to be
>> called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which was
>> behind a door in another room.
>>
>> Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
>> expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
>> keV.
>>
>> He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120 because
>> of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set the
>> detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.
>>
>> Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 1000+ counts
>> PER SECOND and sounded their alarms (they could not show any more). Several
>> of the invited observers considered literally running from the building as
>> it was speculated that Rossi might be leveraging a radioactive source in
>> his experiment. Why such concern? Well, radiation falls off according to
>> Newtons 1/d^2 law as you can see here.
>>
>> Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the formula
>> would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a quarter
>> million per second - not good!
>>
>> However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
>> later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
>> E-cat saying “the reaction has started”.
>>
>> Francesco and the rest of the invited guests then went into the room
>> where the E-Cat was. Whilst in that room and using the NaI(TI) near the
>> operating reactor, there was a 50-100% count increase over background which
>> was erratic. Francesco decided to try and get a spectra from the detector,
>> in order to understand what might be going on and so he switched mode on
>> the detector. Rossi however saw what he was doing, got upset and Celani was
>> told to stop the measurements, which he did.
>>
>> In addition, Celani said that he noted a number of gas cylinders in the
>> room – but that it would only be speculation to say what they were. If
>> E-Cats do indeed produce high gamma busts prepping for 'switch on' or
>> elevated emissions during operation, that might explain challenges in
>> getting domestic certification and the determination to keep below a fixed
>> cop and using staged cascades of small to big E-Cats to create larger
>> effective COPs.
>>
>> Whatever happened that day, Francesco Celani started investigating
>> surface modified transition metals with hy

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Kevin O'Malley]

Of course, my misreading was pre-disposed by having seen this article first:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/11/mfmp-report-detection-of-unusual-gamma-rays/


MFMP Report Detection of Unusual Gamma Rays
November 7, 2013 • 1 Comment

There is a new blog post on the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project’s
quantumheat.org site titled “Gamma” reporting on an interesting development
in their experimental work. In the course of one experiment, Mathieu found
something interesting as he refilled a leaking cell:

Adjacent to the cells he had placed an unshielded geiger counter that
normally registered around 22 counts per minute dropping to 12 and rising
to around 30. In September 2013, he noticed that each time he refilled the
cells, shortly afterwards, the counts leapt up to around 60-90

Below is a video of an attempt to reproduce this experiment.

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[Kevin O'Malley]

Good catch, James.  I screwed up, misread the article.  There's not much
doubt that Celani has observed gamma rays, but not MFMP.


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

> The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.
>
> The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
> sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
> detected unambiguous gamma rays.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
>> experiment*
>>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
>> 
>> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>>
>>
>>
>> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
>> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> Gamma
>>
>> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>>
>> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
>> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. A
>> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
>> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>>
>> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New Energy
>> Times
>>
>> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma ray
>> detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected by
>> Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were
>> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>>
>> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the day
>> following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
>> account of that event.
>>
>> Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to be
>> called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which was
>> behind a door in another room.
>>
>> Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
>> expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
>> keV.
>>
>> He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120 because
>> of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set the
>> detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.
>>
>> Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 1000+ counts
>> PER SECOND and sounded their alarms (they could not show any more). Several
>> of the invited observers considered literally running from the building as
>> it was speculated that Rossi might be leveraging a radioactive source in
>> his experiment. Why such concern? Well, radiation falls off according to
>> Newtons 1/d^2 law as you can see here.
>>
>> Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the formula
>> would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a quarter
>> million per second - not good!
>>
>> However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
>> later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
>> E-cat saying “the reaction has started”.
>>
>> Francesco and the rest of the invited guests then went into the room
>> where the E-Cat was. Whilst in that room and using the NaI(TI) near the
>> operating reactor, there was a 50-100% count increase over background which
>> was erratic. Francesco decided to try and get a spectra from the detector,
>> in order to understand what might be going on and so he switched mode on
>> the detector. Rossi however saw what he was doing, got upset and Celani was
>> told to stop the measurements, which he did.
>>
>> In addition, Celani said that he noted a number of gas cylinders in the
>> room – but that it would only be speculation to say what they were. If
>> E-Cats do indeed produce high gamma busts prepping for 'switch on' or
>> elevated emissions during operation, that might explain challenges in
>> getting domestic certification and the determination to keep below a fixed
>> cop and using staged cascades of small to big E-Cats to create larger
>> effective COPs.
>>
>> Whatever happened that day, Francesco Celani started investigating
>> surface modified transition metals with hydrogen the following month.
>> Inverse Square Law
>>
>> To help understand the inverse square law we made this little video.
>>
>> Comparing the 1100 counts per minute at 2 cm from source in that video to
>> being 8m away, gives around 0.007 counts per minute - i.e. not meaningful
>> contribution to the 25 or so background. Hopefully this gives a sense of
>> why there was such excitement at the momentary signal in January 14, 2011.
>>
>> Celani
>>
>> After the end of ICCF-18 conference dinner, Bob found himself in a
>> conversation opposite Francesco Celani and a prominent government funded
>> scientist. Cela

Re: [Vo]:MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR experiment!

[James Bowery]

The title of the FR post is (annoyingly) misleading.

The MFMP team is saying that they are excited about putting a more
sensitive gamma ray detector into operation -- not that it has, as of now,
detected unambiguous gamma rays.


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> *MFMP detects GAMMA rays in LENR 
> experiment*
>  *Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project ^
> 
> * | 06 November 2013. | Robert Greenyer
>
>
>
> *"Well, to put it plain and simple - it would mean that we have a
> incontrovertible demonstration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)."*
>
>
>
>
>  
>
> Gamma
>
> on 06 November 2013. The smoking gun of LENR?
>
> On January the 14th 2011, Rossi and Focardi gave the first public
> demonstration of the low temperature E-Cat to a personally invited group. A
> short time afterwards, Francesco Celani, who was present at the
> demonstration, sent a review for the event to New Energy Times.
>
> Francesco Celani record of first public E-Cat demonstration in New Energy
> Times
>
> In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma ray
> detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected by
> Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were
> not meaningful during the guests time in the room.
>
> Bob Greenyer was keen to understand more about this event, so in the day
> following ICCF-18, he quizzed Francesco on the matter. Here is a fresh
> account of that event.
>
> Francesco was sitting down with other scientists and guests waiting to be
> called in for the demonstration, they were 7 – 8m away from E-Cat which was
> behind a door in another room.
>
> Francesco had 2 gamma detectors with him, 1 very cheap and 1 very
> expensive battery operated 1.25” NaI(TI) detection range of 25keV to 2000
> keV.
>
> He notes that the background in Frascatti is normally around 120 because
> of local geology, but in Bologna it is 60, Francesco Celani set the
> detectors accordingly and the assembled group sat there patiently waiting.
>
> Suddenly and for about 1 second, both detectors topped out 1000+ counts
> PER SECOND and sounded their alarms (they could not show any more). Several
> of the invited observers considered literally running from the building as
> it was speculated that Rossi might be leveraging a radioactive source in
> his experiment. Why such concern? Well, radiation falls off according to
> Newtons 1/d^2 law as you can see here.
>
> Plugging the minimum 1000 counts per second and 8 meters into the formula
> would mean that 50cm from the E-Cat, the counts would be over a quarter
> million per second - not good!
>
> However, luckily the momentary signal collapsed and about two minutes
> later, Rossi came into the waiting room to invite people in to see the
> E-cat saying “the reaction has started”.
>
> Francesco and the rest of the invited guests then went into the room where
> the E-Cat was. Whilst in that room and using the NaI(TI) near the operating
> reactor, there was a 50-100% count increase over background which was
> erratic. Francesco decided to try and get a spectra from the detector, in
> order to understand what might be going on and so he switched mode on the
> detector. Rossi however saw what he was doing, got upset and Celani was
> told to stop the measurements, which he did.
>
> In addition, Celani said that he noted a number of gas cylinders in the
> room – but that it would only be speculation to say what they were. If
> E-Cats do indeed produce high gamma busts prepping for 'switch on' or
> elevated emissions during operation, that might explain challenges in
> getting domestic certification and the determination to keep below a fixed
> cop and using staged cascades of small to big E-Cats to create larger
> effective COPs.
>
> Whatever happened that day, Francesco Celani started investigating surface
> modified transition metals with hydrogen the following month. Inverse
> Square Law
>
> To help understand the inverse square law we made this little video.
>
> Comparing the 1100 counts per minute at 2 cm from source in that video to
> being 8m away, gives around 0.007 counts per minute - i.e. not meaningful
> contribution to the 25 or so background. Hopefully this gives a sense of
> why there was such excitement at the momentary signal in January 14, 2011.
>
> Celani
>
> After the end of ICCF-18 conference dinner, Bob found himself in a
> conversation opposite Francesco Celani and a prominent government funded
> scientist. Celani was told essentially that the levels of excess reported
> were basically not significant enough to avoid being dismissed and that
> what was needed as solid evidence of LENR was either transmutation or
> particle/ray emission.
>
> Francesco then said, that when he was testing his wire with D