Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 08:17:42PM -0500, bugs buggy wrote: On 3/5/09, Zarel zare...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/3/4 Zarel zare...@gmail.com: Just kidding. They're not going to sync intrepid. Apparently, once an Ubuntu version has been released, only critical bugfixes and security patches are allowed. 2.1-beta4 - 2.1.1 just doesn't fix critical enough bugs to qualify. :( I can try to convince them the 6-player limit is a big enough bug to justify 2.1.2... We *did* have a security issue with the dump files, does that count? Giel fixed it in trunk, though, I don't recall if it is in 2.1.x or not though. Just for the record, that security fix was done in 2.1_rc1 [1]. So it might warrant an upgrade from 2.1-beta4. [1] http://developer.wz2100.net/browser/tags/2.1_rc1/ChangeLog#L30 -- Giel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
Am Samstag, 7. März 2009 02:35:12 schrieb bugs buggy: On 3/4/09, Kamaze fearthec...@gmail.com wrote: Also, I think there is a need to polish the windows installer a little bit. My opinion is, that we shouldn't deliver 3rd party mods with the default installer at all. (Excepting AIvolution) You know, I talked about this before, but we don't have a dedicated place to put the other mods, where people can rate them. Perhaps Zarel, or someone else can design a site specifically for mods/maps? Hosted on wz2100.net maybe? Sounds like a good idea. If someone does it... Till then I see no reason to stop shiping mods with the installer. Otherwise we might run into conflict that all people want to get their mod shipped with the installer. I think that we should outsource this into a dedicated application (something like a map/mod manager) which should be included with the game and takes care of installing, deleting and updating the installed mods and maps. This could be a stand alone application (Qt for cross platform?) or maybe integrated into the game later, when Betawidget is ready for use. Is that going to be the name for the new GUI code? 'Betawidget'? ;) Anyway, even with that code, it still is going to be a bear handling it, and of course, we need someone to write it, and last I looked, nobody has time to do anything like that. One issue is with Physfs, we have *one* write directory. And that is the config directory. That is it. It's a design choice, not a bug. There is the user directory where the application will write, and it shall not fiddle with the system installation (in a good secured system that will not be possible anyway). So what we would do is just write any user installed to the user's directory and load it from there. (Loading code is already in place since aeons, so you would just have to write code to receive a file over the net and write it with a specified name.) You could even do auto-conversions that way. Load an old mod from the system installation, convert it, push it through zlib and dump the result in the userdir. Anyway, I am all for a 3rdparty application, Warzone Starter, which does it as easy and simple as it worked for Morrowind or Oblivion (sorry to name them over and over again, but it's dead simple and still convenient). It should of course share code with Warzone, since we need the downloading-, etc code for the host-got-a-map-that-a-player-is-lacking situation as well. And automatic in-app conversion of old mods/maps/saves sounds like a good solution, too. --DevUrandom signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
On 3/5/09, Zarel zare...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/3/4 Zarel zare...@gmail.com: 2009/3/4 Dennis Schridde devuran...@gmx.net: As an additional note: Ubuntu apparently just managed to sync with their upstream and is therefore just as up-to-date as Debian again. Wow. :) Well, to be exact, they've acknowledged the bug, which means they'll probably sync sometime in the near future. Just kidding. They're not going to sync intrepid. Apparently, once an Ubuntu version has been released, only critical bugfixes and security patches are allowed. 2.1-beta4 - 2.1.1 just doesn't fix critical enough bugs to qualify. :( I can try to convince them the 6-player limit is a big enough bug to justify 2.1.2... We *did* have a security issue with the dump files, does that count? Giel fixed it in trunk, though, I don't recall if it is in 2.1.x or not though. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
On 3/4/09, Kamaze fearthec...@gmail.com wrote: We have the FMVs now for quite a while, how is the status about inlcuding them in one the the next releases (2.2 Series?)? grumble...one of these days... Also, I think there is a need to polish the windows installer a little bit. My opinion is, that we shouldn't deliver 3rd party mods with the default installer at all. (Excepting AIvolution) You know, I talked about this before, but we don't have a dedicated place to put the other mods, where people can rate them. Perhaps Zarel, or someone else can design a site specifically for mods/maps? Otherwise we might run into conflict that all people want to get their mod shipped with the installer. I think that we should outsource this into a dedicated application (something like a map/mod manager) which should be included with the game and takes care of installing, deleting and updating the installed mods and maps. This could be a stand alone application (Qt for cross platform?) or maybe integrated into the game later, when Betawidget is ready for use. Is that going to be the name for the new GUI code? 'Betawidget'? ;) Anyway, even with that code, it still is going to be a bear handling it, and of course, we need someone to write it, and last I looked, nobody has time to do anything like that. One issue is with Physfs, we have *one* write directory. And that is the config directory. That is it. That means, within the program, that is the only directory where we can modify (copy/delete) things, and then we got other issues as well. It would almost have to be written as a 3rd party application, or lots more work needed to recode how we deal with all the directories in warzone. Also, is there maybe the possibility to distribute Warzone on linux on our own again? The versions delivered by most distributions seem to be outdated most of the time, which seems to be - at least for online play - bad, or? I dunno if it is worth it or not. Looks like that each distro does what it wants to do, and we can't really force a upgrade to them. :( ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
I have nothing much to add to the general discussion, except that I think we should look for people who can make distro-specific packages that we put on our web page. I can make them for the latest Fedora version, for example. - Per ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 09:19:05AM +0100, Per Inge Mathisen wrote: I have nothing much to add to the general discussion, except that I think we should look for people who can make distro-specific packages that we put on our web page. I can make them for the latest Fedora version, for example. WZ version 2.1.1 is available for openSUSE via the openSUSE Build Server Game repository. -- Stephen Swaney sswa...@centurytel.net ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
Hi everyone, I'm a mere user of warzone, and would like to volunteer building wz for a couple of other distros (as long as i can get them to run nicely in vm, which shouldn't be a problem. I already have vista and gentoo in a vm...). I have quite some spare time and some experience compiling warzone. If this is a serious request, please let me know (both which distro, and which version...) That way, I could use fully updated distros, and thus dependencies as provided by that particular distro... Stefan 2009/3/5, Stephen Swaney sswa...@centurytel.net: On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 09:19:05AM +0100, Per Inge Mathisen wrote: I have nothing much to add to the general discussion, except that I think we should look for people who can make distro-specific packages that we put on our web page. I can make them for the latest Fedora version, for example. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
2009/3/4 Zarel zare...@gmail.com: 2009/3/4 Dennis Schridde devuran...@gmx.net: As an additional note: Ubuntu apparently just managed to sync with their upstream and is therefore just as up-to-date as Debian again. Wow. :) Well, to be exact, they've acknowledged the bug, which means they'll probably sync sometime in the near future. Just kidding. They're not going to sync intrepid. Apparently, once an Ubuntu version has been released, only critical bugfixes and security patches are allowed. 2.1-beta4 - 2.1.1 just doesn't fix critical enough bugs to qualify. :( I can try to convince them the 6-player limit is a big enough bug to justify 2.1.2... -Zarel ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
Hello Kamaze, hi everyone else! Am Mittwoch, 4. März 2009 14:43:25 schrieb Kamaze: We have the FMVs now for quite a while, how is the status about inlcuding them in one the the next releases (2.2 Series?)? They currently live on the Gna servers to be downloaded on-demand by the Windows installer. (Or by distro packagers.) They will definitely be in, and the current method of distribution (credits go to Giel) seems to work. There have been discussions to include them in SVN, but this was rejected, because they are quite big, and not everyone wants to download such a chunk whenever a movie changes. (Does someone have the stats ready? Average filesize, etc?) Freddie wanted to reencode the videos when the new Theora encoder is final, which should improve the quality a lot. They would be reuploaded to Gna when that happened. (Whoever will do this: Please do not replace the file directly, but add another one with increased version number. Reason: Distro packagers.) Also, I think there is a need to polish the windows installer a little bit. My opinion is, that we shouldn't deliver 3rd party mods with the default installer at all. (Excepting AIvolution) Till now we had no issues with this. Some mods even live in svn, and I do not think that there are a lot of serious issues with this either. And then: Why should Aivolution be special in this regard? When does a mod become official? When the creator is also a WZ developer? Does he have to be active? What type of contributions do count as development? ... Summary: As long as no issues arrise from that type of distribution, we should stick with it. Otherwise we might run into conflict that all people want to get their mod shipped with the installer. Our issue is rather that there are no people developing mods, and not so much that we are overrun by the crowds. I think that we should outsource this into a dedicated application (something like a map/mod manager) which should be included with the game and takes care of installing, deleting and updating the installed mods and maps. You wrote it? Or are at least going to do it in a reasonable timeframe? Also, is there maybe the possibility to distribute Warzone on linux on our own again? The versions delivered by most distributions seem to be outdated most of the time, which seems to be - at least for online play - bad, or? The one in Gentoo is quite current... ;) Arch is probably the same. Ubuntu crawled a bit, but that's nothing new. Maybe you should show some stats for the major distros, so we have some ground for discussion. I remember that there where some issues with Autopackage and Mojo in the past, what is about packages which require no installation at all? Like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klik_(packaging_method) There were not issues with neither AutoPackage nor MojoSetup, I think. At least no serious ones. I do not remember anymore why I switched from AutoPackage to MojoSetup. Maybe because Ryan wrote it... Or because it is Lua scriptable? Or because AP development became rather slow, seemingly unmaintained. Really: No clue. What is an issue with every such custom installer is that it is highly unlikely to match the libs of every distribution. That we have very little constraint on the version of the libraries we are using does not mean that a build of WZ made on one machine will run on another. There are ABI incompatibilities which make packaging a pain. The AutoPackage buildtools helped a bit here, but were no magic solution either. The last thing I remember me doing was building on an ssh account on someone else's Debian machine... The resulting build would not run on Gentoo, and probably not on at least one of SuSE, Fedora, Mandriva, Arch, insert your distro here. This cannot really be solved by using Hip-New-System, whichever you will show me. Greetings, DevUrandom signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
2009/3/4 Dennis Schridde devuran...@gmx.net They currently live on the Gna servers to be downloaded on-demand by the Windows installer. (Or by distro packagers.) They will definitely be in, and the current method of distribution (credits go to Giel) seems to work. Last time I installed trunk (a week and a half ago), they weren't downloaded by the installer at all. Is it currently implemented like the music? I think the music download should be implemented better - it shouldn't be downloaded if it already has been downloaded and hasn't changed since then (I hate having to uncheck install music each time I update Warzone so I don't have to wait for a slow Gna! server to send me the music files again). Heck, right now, I don't even know how the sequences are supposed to be packaged. The only way I've managed to get them to work without having them unpacked is either packaging them within warzone.wz, or putting sequences.wz in mods/global/autoload/. Putting sequences.wz in the main Warzone directory just causes Warzone to ignore it. Till now we had no issues with this. Some mods even live in svn, and I do not think that there are a lot of serious issues with this either. And then: Why should Aivolution be special in this regard? When does a mod become official? When the creator is also a WZ developer? Does he have to be active? What type of contributions do count as development? ... Summary: As long as no issues arrise from that type of distribution, we should stick with it. Well, Aivolution is different because it doesn't change game balance, nor models, nor anything like that; it simply improves the AI. The one in Gentoo is quite current... ;) Arch is probably the same. Ubuntu crawled a bit, but that's nothing new. Maybe you should show some stats for the major distros, so we have some ground for discussion. Well, the one in the Ubuntu repositories for intrepid (the current version) is 2.1-beta4. Older versions have ridiculously old svn builds (r3595 and r1436). The next version of Ubuntu that hasn't been released yet has 2.1.0. - Zarel ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
Dennis Schridde schrieb: They currently live on the Gna servers to be downloaded on-demand by the Windows installer. That's what i expected. They will definitely be in [...] That's all i wanted to know ;) [...] And then: Why should Aivolution be special in this regard? When does a mod become official? When the creator is also a WZ developer? Does he have to be active? What type of contributions do count as development? ... Like Zarel already wrote, AIvolution is somewhat different I think. The Stock-AI isn't that beautyful and AIvolution dosn't touch anything else. Also is AIV right now somehting like a defacto-standard for AI improvement in Warzone. Last but not least is it officially maintained by us. Summary: As long as no issues arrise from that type of distribution, we should stick with it. The official distribution should focus to the core game. Like in programming, where you should split the logic from the presentation. Our issue is rather that there are no people developing mods, and not so much that we are overrun by the crowds. Who decides which mods will be included and which not? What about the case, that we need to remove mods due to inactivity or incompatibility? Providing a simple listing trough a Mod-Manager or trough the Website, where people can download the mods they want, would be a clear rule and every mod developer would have the same premises. The only exception I would make, are in-house game improvements, which have an reasonable interest for every player but might be to dramatic to replace the official game mechanics, like AIvolution or - for example - a rebalancing mod. However, I'm speaking about mods here, I have nothing against including further maps in the main distribution, which have a proven acceptance. You wrote it? Or are at least going to do it in a reasonable timeframe? No, but a in-game implemented mod-manager or at least update checker shouldn't be such a big deal, as soon as Betawidget is deployed, or? (Interface Wise) I think that even I would be able to implement an update check and downloading mechanism for the new mod package, using cURL. The one in Gentoo is quite current... ;) Arch is probably the same. Ubuntu crawled a bit, but that's nothing new. Maybe you should show some stats for the major distros, so we have some ground for discussion. See Zarels Reply. The resulting build would not run on Gentoo, and probably not on at least one of SuSE, Fedora, Mandriva, Arch, insert your distro here. Warsow - for example - delivers simply a zip package, containing the game data and a win32, win64, Linux x86 and Linux x86_64 binary, and they seem to drive well with it. But probably because their Quake engine doesn't have that much dependencys as we have. This cannot really be solved by using Hip-New-System, whichever you will show me. At least a simple zip- or tar.gz-Archive containing a x86 and x86_64 linux build would be a better service than forcing the users to compile it on their own, if their distri doesn't offer an up2date build. If there are binary-compatibility problems, we should do this at least for the major `non-linux-expert` distributions like Ubuntu. -- Kamaze ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
Hi! Am Mittwoch, 4. März 2009 21:34:25 schrieb Kamaze: Dennis Schridde schrieb: Our issue is rather that there are no people developing mods, and not so much that we are overrun by the crowds. Who decides which mods will be included and which not? The release maintainer decides on a case by case basis. The current mods (ok, just one...) went in by request of the mod author, and after us two sitting down and getting the mod to comply with the GPL and fixing any incompatibilities. I think this could work for other mods as well. (They would have to be GPL and should not have obvious incompatibilities. In the end the mod author is of course the one responsible...) As soon as we reach a critical mass, we can think about more advanced solutions, I think. What about the case, that we need to remove mods due to inactivity or incompatibility? Yes, that might be necessary, if a mod becomes incompatible or has known bugs which are not fixed in time. (Which is entirely up to the release manager of that cycle.) Providing a simple listing trough a Mod-Manager or trough the Website, where people can download the mods they want, would be a clear rule and every mod developer would have the same premises. Yes, it would be fairer if there would be competing mod authors. There are not, that's the issue. So any time of the core team is better spent on a mod making assistant (WZStudio was such thing during brainstorming). You wrote it? Or are at least going to do it in a reasonable timeframe? No, but a in-game implemented mod-manager or at least update checker shouldn't be such a big deal, as soon as Betawidget is deployed, or? (Interface Wise) I think that even I would be able to implement an update check and downloading mechanism for the new mod package, using cURL. Be careful with not a big deal and especially even I would be able to. The first one can be way off and the latter never gets tested, because out of experience I can tell you that there will be no one writing such a tool. (If there was, that someone would probably have written it already.) No offense, but there have always been talkers in this community, who proposed things that would be nice to have, but no one ever sat down and actually did it. (Really no offense, brainstorming is a good thing, and there are some very clever ideas coming out of it. It just does not help anyone if they slowly trickle away afterwards.) The one in Gentoo is quite current... ;) Arch is probably the same. Ubuntu crawled a bit, but that's nothing new. Maybe you should show some stats for the major distros, so we have some ground for discussion. See Zarels Reply. That was Ubuntu specific. There are other major distros as well. And if we have to sacrifice Ubuntu, I am willing to do that, if their maintainers are not able to deliver their packages in a timely manner. As an additional note: Ubuntu apparently just managed to sync with their upstream and is therefore just as up-to-date as Debian again. Wow. :) The resulting build would not run on Gentoo, and probably not on at least one of SuSE, Fedora, Mandriva, Arch, insert your distro here. Warsow - for example - delivers simply a zip package, containing the game data and a win32, win64, Linux x86 and Linux x86_64 binary, and they seem to drive well with it. But probably because their Quake engine doesn't have that much dependencys as we have. It could work if we package all the required libraries as well... That's more work, has security, compatibility and other flaws, but it might work on the first sight. Someone (r.a.) might want to do it. The major issue I see which such thing (nevertheless several games, especially closed source ones, do it anyway) is that you will have to take over the job of distributors here. You will have to watch out for ABI changes, security reports, etc, to do the job correctly. Of course there are also quick-and- dirty solutions everywhere there is a problem. Greetings, DevUrandom signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMV delivery and installer thingys
2009/3/4 Dennis Schridde devuran...@gmx.net: As an additional note: Ubuntu apparently just managed to sync with their upstream and is therefore just as up-to-date as Debian again. Wow. :) Well, to be exact, they've acknowledged the bug, which means they'll probably sync sometime in the near future. They're currently still at: Jaunty (2.1.0-1): universe/games Intrepid (2.1.0~1.beta4-2): universe/games Hardy (2.1.0~0.svn3595.dfsg.1-1): universe/games Gutsy (2.1.0~0.svn1436-1): universe/games The relevant bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/warzone2100/+bug/337915 Which was filed after I prodded them in #ubuntu-motu -Zarel ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
