Re: [Wikitech-l] Increasing default cookie expiry time

[Helder Geovane]

Would it be possible for a user to create a small javascript to replace the
default cookie by another one which doesn't expires?

Helder


On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 16:20, Max Semenik  wrote:

> I propose to raise the default ($wgCookieExpiration) at least to 90
> days from current 30.
>
> This setting was supposed to combat leakage of logged in sessions by
> making them expire before before an attacker grabs them. However,
> cookie expiry does little to stop bad guys and annoys good ones:
>
> * Once you've left a public PC without clicking on "log out", your
> session is already compromised, even making cookies session-only won't
> help.
> * If nobody looks specifically for your session, they can stumble upon
> it accidentally, while browsing the same site as you did. Lowish
> expiry time can indeed help lessen this possibility, however with
> Wikipedia's popularity there's pretty solid chance that someone will
> visit it from a public teminal within hours, not days. Less popular
> sites are, on the other hand, protected by smaller possibilities of
> someone looking for them.
> * MediaWiki provides no way to adjust preferences without having an
> account, so advice "register and set this or that in 'my preferences'"
> is pretty popular these days. However, the need to log in every month
> which is mildly annoying for wiki regulars, may have a drastic effect
> on casual visitors. "You told me to register and when I did, I had to
> relogin after a couple of visits!!1"
>
> Taking this all into account, I see no reason to keep the current
> default.
>
> --
>  Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
>
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikisource books and web 1.0 pages (was: pas de sujet)

[Helder Geovane]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 07:23, Tei  wrote:

> On 13 August 2010 10:27, Lars Aronsson  wrote:
> ...
> > If we applied this web 2.0 principle to Wikibooks and Wikisource,
> > we wouldn't need to have pages with previous/next links. We could
> > just have smooth, continuous scrolling in one long sequence. Readers
> > could still arrive at a given coordinate (chapter or page), but
> > continue from there in any direction.
> >
> > Examples of such user interfaces for books are Google Books and the
> > Internet Archive online reader. You can link to page 14 like this:
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=Z_ZLMAAJ&pg=PA14
> > and then scroll up (to page 13) or down (to page 15). The whole
> > book is never in your browser. New pages are AJAX loaded as they
> > are needed.
>
> You are not thinking "web" here.
>
> The "web" way to solve a problem like easy access to "next page" or
> "different chapters" is to have a "next page" link or have all the
> chapters as tabs, or something like that.  Make the wiki aware of the
> structure of a book, and make it render these nextpage link / chapters
> tabs.
>

Well, "to make the wiki aware of the structure of a book" is essentially
what is requested in bug 15071 [1], which is open since 2008 and blocking 6
other requests which would solve Wikisource/Wikibooks (but non-Wikipedia)
specific issues...

Helder

[1] Wikibooks/Wikisource needs means to associate separate pages with books:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15071
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Using LanguageConverter for Portuguese Variants

[Helder Geovane]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:31, Roan Kattouw  wrote:

> 2010/8/9 Helder Geovane :
> > It seems to be sufficient to add set *$wgDisableLangConversion = true;*
> for
> > Portuguese wikis while testing at a prototype wiki (there it would have
> it's
> > default value [*=false]*). Would that be possible?
> >
> > There is also an open bug related to this variable:
> > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18958
> >
> From reading that and the commits involved, it seems
> $wgDisableLangConversion doesn't completely disable language
> conversion, so that may need to be fixed first.
>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>

If no one add rules to the MediaWiki:Conversiontable/pt-xyz tables and do
not add manual markup -{}- in the text, the language converter doesn't do
any conversion (at least it doesn't seems to do). But in this case we still
have the drop down menu at the top of the wiki pages (for variant selection)
and another at Special:Preferences. If we add $wgDisableLangConversion =
true; to LocalSettings.php then both menus are also disabled (they are not
shown), and so the feature seems to be completely disabled.

Does anybody know what would not be disabled with this setting?

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Using LanguageConverter for Portuguese Variants

[Helder Geovane]

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 19:19, Roan Kattouw  wrote:

> 2010/8/9 Helder Geovane :
> > Would a "prototype wiki" be a good place to make it possible for
> Portuguese
> > community to test the Language Conversion in practice?
> >
> Sounds good to me personally, although I'll ask some other people to
> weigh in. I personally like the idea of a world where the standard
> response to "hey we wanna play with this thing and it's all coded up
> already" is "sure, lemme set you up with a prototype wiki".
>
> > We are considering[1][2] the possibility of using the system to handle
> > regional differences in the written Portuguese, but it seems that the
> > editors need more contact with the system before they can decide in
> favour
> > or agains an efective use of the conversion system at pt.wikipedia.
> > We have made some drafts of the PHP code[3] which is needed to start, and
> > set of possible global conversion rules for some variants[4].
> >
> > What should we do to have a prototype wiki for this, if that is possible?
> >
> You should start with getting your code in SVN. If it is or can be
> written in a way that makes it easy to disable (or if there's some
> other caveat such as it not doing anything if the conversion tables
> are empty), it can be committed straight to trunk. If this is not
> possible, it can be put in a branch, but trunk would really be
> preferred here, and disableability should be relatively easy to
> accomplish.
>
> Then when it's agreed that this should go on a prototype wiki, Ryan or
> I will set up the wiki and configure it, and it'll be all yours.
>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>

It seems to be sufficient to add set *$wgDisableLangConversion = true;* for
Portuguese wikis while testing at a prototype wiki (there it would have it's
default value [*=false]*). Would that be possible?

There is also an open bug related to this variable:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18958

Helder
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[Wikitech-l] Using LanguageConverter for Portuguese Variants

[Helder Geovane]

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 14:16, Roan Kattouw  wrote:

> This is true, and this, not usability team exclusivity, is the
> important difference here. testwiki is really only for things that we
> deem ready to go live and want to check one more time before we
> accidentally let a typo wreck stuff, so code that goes there has to be
> pretty solid already. prototype is a completely separate machine that
> we can play around with to our heart's content, so mostly we can just
> throw stuff on there and see what happens.
>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>

Hello!

Would a "prototype wiki" be a good place to make it possible for Portuguese
community to test the Language Conversion in practice?

We are considering[1][2] the possibility of using the system to handle
regional differences in the written Portuguese, but it seems that the
editors need more contact with the system before they can decide in favour
or agains an efective use of the conversion system at pt.wikipedia.
We have made some drafts of the PHP code[3] which is needed to start, and
set of possible global conversion rules for some variants[4].

What should we do to have a prototype wiki for this, if that is possible?

Thanks,
Helder


[1]
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Esplanada/propostas/Conversor_de_idiomas_para_as_variantes_do_portugu%C3%AAs_%2830mai2010%29

[2]
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%92%E5%8A%A9%E5%AE%A2%E6%A0%88/%E6%8A%80%E6%9C%AF/%E5%AD%98%E6%A1%A3/2010%E5%B9%B47%E6%9C%88#.E5.95.8F.EF.BC.9ALanguage_Converter

[3]
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Esplanada/propostas/Conversor_de_idiomas_para_as_variantes_do_portugu%C3%AAs_%2830mai2010%29/PHP#.2Flanguages.2Fclasses.2FLanguagePt.php

[4]
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Esplanada/propostas/Conversor_de_idiomas_para_as_variantes_do_portugu%C3%AAs_%2830mai2010%29/MediaWiki:Conversiontable/pt-br
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikisource-l] Wikisource bugs

[Helder Geovane]

Hello!

This seems somewhat related to the problems we have at Wikibooks. There is
plenty of bugs which describe these problems, and I think some of them are
also problems at Wikisource:
* Wikibooks custom database schema (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15071)
* Create a set of special pages for handling meta-organization of books (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15073)
* Separate reference page for glossaries, bibliographies, etc (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10092)
* Protect, watchlist or delete a whole book at once (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15072)
* List, count and search all books (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15074)
* Per-book stylesheets (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15075
)
* Allow s from multiple pages to be collected into one  on
another page (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15070)

Helder

On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 09:31, Lars Aronsson  wrote:

> On 07/01/2010 12:22 PM, ThomasV wrote:
> > I apologize for the length of my answer. I wish to thank those who
> > have had the patience to read this entire post.
>
> The problem is not a long post or two, but the fact that
> you seem to have locked yourself to this single issue.
> I'd like to discuss some far more visionary changes
> in how Wikisource works, but all you can talk about are
> these two stages of proofreading.
>
> Let me start from another angle: Does anybody have
> experience from teaching beginners how to contribute
> to Wikisource? What are the hardest concepts to explain?
> I think we should compile and rank the current obstacles
> to the growth of Wikisource.
>
> Just as one example, I would put the multiple namespaces
> (Index: and Page:) pretty high on that list, and I think
> that a redesign could do away with them. There was indeed
> a bug report filed for something similar, from the Polish
> community, that wanted to disconnect the naming of Index
> pages from the naming of PDF/Djvu files:
>
> " should have file parameter",
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21398
>
> ThomasV replied with "WONTFIX", which is understandable
> since this is not a simple bug fix, but a more complicated
> change of architecture. The problem is that this
> architecture was never documented, so we don't know
> which the design decisions are. Or was it?
>
> This is just one example of how Wikisource is really
> overly complicated, putting extra burden on newcomers,
> and where Wikisource would benefit from a redesign.
> But my suggestion is that we start to compile a catalog
> of such problems, rather than submitting bug reports.
> Where is a good place to start?
>
>
> --
>   Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se)
>   Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] On proper sorting using CLDR (was: varchar(255) binary in tables.sql)

[Helder Geovane]

Hi!

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 09:40, Domas Mituzas  wrote:
[snip]
> Of course, we can use community driven sortkey hacks for some features ;-)
>
> Domas

Currently it is possible to define the sortkeys using
{{DEFAULTSORT:Sortkey}}
and in lots of places this "sortkey" coincide with the value of magic
words like {{PAGENAME}} and {{SUBPAGENAME}}, so we don't need to
update them manually. The (annoying) exception is when the value
returned by these magic words starts, for example, with "Á" and we
would like to have the page sorted in "A": in this cases we are forced
to type the sortkey manually.

Would it be possible to have some command for language-dependent word
conversions, like {{collation:|}}, whose result
should be the given  with character "Á" changed to "A" (and so
on for other characters), according to the ?

This could be used in situations like
{{DEFAULTSORT: {{collation: pt | {{SUBPAGENAME}} }} }}
or even to create a template {{Simplified sortkey}} with the code above.

What do you think?

Helder

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Re: [Wikitech-l] js2 extensions / Update ( add-media-wizard, uploadWizard, timed media player )

[Helder Geovane]

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 08:39, Ilmari Karonen  wrote:

> On 05/18/2010 08:53 AM, Michael Dale wrote:
> >
> > But in general its probably better / easier for end users to just
> > identify their platform and whats not working, since its all code to
> > them anyway. If they are a developer or are going to do something
> > productive with what they are seeking they likely have the code checked
> > out locally and use the debug mode.
>
> The problem here is Wikimedia sites.  If you leave the debug mode off
> and serve fully minified scripts on WMF sites, the hundreds if not
> thousands of people who develop user/site scripts for them will have a
> very hard time debugging anything that involves interactions with the
> minified code.  If you turn debug mode on permanently, you lose most of
> the benefit of having a minifier to begin with (Wikimedia being the
> single biggest user of MediaWiki).
>
> Then there's also the problem that the MediaWiki environment on
> Wikimedia sites can be quite different from a stock install, and
> duplicating enough of it on a test wiki to be able to reproduce a
> Wikimedia-specific bug may be quite difficult -- particularly so if you
> have to do this before you even know where the bug occurs, because you
> couldn't do any useful debugging due to the code being minified.
>
> I'd like to second Aryeh's suggestion to at least tweak the minifier to
> leave newlines intact (although collapsing multiple consecutive newlines
> to one would be OK, I guess).  That way users could at least set up
> useful breakpoints and receive error messages that tell more than which
> file the problem occurred in.
>
I would support "a url flag to avoid minification and or avoid
script-grouping",
as suggested by Michael Dale, or even to have a user preference for
enable/disable minification in a more permanent way (so we don't need to
change the url on each test: we just disable minification, debug the code
and then enable it again)

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wiki syntax for representing that a page is a "child" of another page?

[Helder Geovane]

2010/4/11 Aryeh Gregor

>

>
> It might be possible in principle to use some kind of template that
> normally renders as a link, but could be persuaded to render as an
> inclusion under some conditions.  I'm not sure offhand what the best
> way to do this would be.
>

Maybe something like this?

"Template:Chapter":

{{#ifeq:{{SUBPAGENAME}}|Print
  |{{:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/{{{1}
  |[[/{{{1}}}/]]
}}


Table of Contents of the manual, at "Manual":

{{Chapter|Title of chapter 1}}
{{Chapter|Title of chapter 2}}
...

which at "Manual" expands to links:

[[/Title of chapter 1/]]
[[/Title of chapter 2/]]

and at "Manual/Print", using

{{:Manual}}

expands to this transclusions:

{{:Manual/Title of chapter 1}}
{{:Manual/Title of chapter 2}}
...


Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wiki syntax for representing that a page is a "child" of another page?

[Helder Geovane]

2010/4/10 Jack Bates 

> Does there exist a recommended wiki syntax for representing that a page
> is hierarchically a "child" of another page?
>
> I don't want to rename the pages
>
> Currently I use this static, hierarchical index of wiki pages which are
> part of our user manual,
> http://github.com/jablko/manual/raw/master/manual.html
>
> - to compile the pages into this PDF, http://ica-atom.org/manual.pdf
>
> Now however, instead of the static index, I want to represent in each
> page's wiki markup, which pages are logically "children" of that page
>
> Among the reasons for doing this is that, to build the PDF based on the
> static index, currently I recursively concatenate first the body of a
> page, followed by each of its children
>
> Now I have a case where, instead of concatenating the children after the
> page body, the children need to be inserted at various positions in the
> page body
>
> So I think I need to indicate these positions with some wiki syntax, and
> this will make the static index redundant
>
> I thought "transclusion" was a candidate, because pages are recursively
> transcluded to build the PDF, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion
>
> In the wiki however, I don't actually want to display pages embedded in
> each other - instead I want links to child pages. This represents enough
> information about the hierarchical structure to build the PDF
>
> My current best candidate is the  "link
> relation",
>
> * http://www.imc.org/atom-syntax/mail-archive/msg21260
> * http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-divilly-atom-hierarchy-03
>
> Is there a better syntax for representing, at a particular position in a
> page, that another page is a "child"?
>

I seems that this is another instance of the problem mentioned at bug 15073:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15073
What is needed is a "set of special pages for handling meta-organization of
books", but this depends on bug 15071 (Wikibooks custom database schema):
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15071
 for which doesn't
have any progress since 2008-09-16...

Helder
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[Wikitech-l] Inconsistent revision history after importing

[Helder Geovane]

Hello!

After importing
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Especial%3ARegisto&type=import&user=&page=Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o%3APeqind&year=&month=-1&uselang=en
a template from pt.wikipedia to pt.wikibooks, the revision history seems to
be inconsistent. According to the history
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o:Peqind&action=history&uselang=en
, the last 3 edits are:

# (cur) (prev)  2009-12-01T08:48:52 Heldergeovane (Talk | contribs) m (324
bytes) (19 edições de w:Predefinição:Peqind: importando o histórico de
contribuições) (undo)
# (cur) (prev) 2009-11-08T19:17:22 Berganus (Talk | contribs) (324 bytes)
(Criou nova página com '__NOTOC__ {| border="0" id="toc" style="margin: 0
auto;" align=center | '''Índice: ''' A B C D E F G H I [[#J...') (undo)
# (cur) (prev) 2009-07-25T12:30:47 Capmo (Talk | contribs) (673 bytes)
(adicionando {{PAGENAME}}) (undo)


When I select the edits from  2009-07-25 and 2009-11-08 for diffs, I get
this
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o%3APeqind&action=historysubmit&diff=142330&oldid=144851&uselang=en
where is is shown "(18 intermediate revisions not shown)". Besides this,
when clicking at "Newer edit →", we go to an edit from 2004
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o:Peqind&diff=next&oldid=142330&uselang=en

What is wrong?

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Language variants

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hello!

I think the code is these:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/doc/LanguageConverter_8php-source.html#l00018
http://svn.wikimedia.org/doc/LanguageZh_8php-source.html#l9

and a comment at
http://svn.wikimedia.org/doc/LanguageConverter_8php-source.html#l00258
says:

00271  /* we convert everything except:
00272  1. html markups (anything between < and >)
00273  2. html entities
00274  3. place holders created by the parser
00275  */

So, I don't think it will convert . But I'm
not sure, because I'm still learning php...

By the way, I can't understand Chinese, but (after using an on-line
translator) I think the page they have for documenting the system is
this:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%BB%B4%E5%9F%BA%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91%E7%9A%84%E7%B9%81%E7%AE%80%E5%A4%84%E7%90%86

Helder




2009/9/10 Aryeh Gregor 
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Roan Kattouw  wrote:
> > Seems I'm not the only one who had a completely wrong idea about how
> > variants work. We definitely need more documentation and fame for this
> > system, so its potential doesn't go to waste.
>
> I theoretically knew that it was just a string-replace system, but it
> didn't occur to me that it would be useful for more than
> transliteration.  It makes sense now that Tim pointed that out.  How
> would it handle word breaks, though?  It would just ignore them, so
> color -> colour also changes uncolored -> uncoloured?  What about
> things like HTML id's or even attribute/property names ( style="color:red">)?  I'm sure I could dig through the code to find
> the answers to these, but actually I'm not even sure offhand where the
> code *is*.
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Language variants

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

2009/9/9 Tim Starling 

> The language variant system that we have could easily convert between
> US and UK English. In fact it already does convert between a language
> pair with a far more complex relationship, that is Simplified and
> Traditional Chinese.
>
> The language conversion system is very simple, it's just a table of
> translated pairs, where the longest match takes precedence. The
> translation table in one direction (e.g. UK -> US) can be different to
> the table in the other direction (US -> UK). You would not list "ize
> -> ise", you would list every word in the dictionary with an -ize
> ending that can be translated to -ise without controversy. The current
> software could handle 50k pairs or so without serious performance
> problems, and it could be extended and optimised to allow millions of
> pairs if there was a need for that.


Hello again!

What would be needed in order to use pages like MediaWiki:Conversiontable/pt
and MediaWiki:Conversiontable/pt-br at the wikimedia projects in Portuguese
for the conversion? Is it easy to have the language conversion enabled?
Could we gradually create the conversion tables?

Sorry for so many questions...

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Language variants

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

2009/9/10 Aryeh Gregor

>

> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Ariel T. Glenn 
> wrote:
> > The differences between the UK and American varieties of English are not
> > limited just to spelling and vocabulary.
>
> Those account for the large majority of the more noticeable
> differences, however.


I think this is also the case for Portuguese ('pt' x 'pt-br'). So, even if
the table doesn't solves every case, what it solves is sufficiently good...

2009/9/10 Aryeh Gregor

>
>
> Is there any reason nobody's tried adding such support for us/uk
> English?  It would resolve some long-standing tension on enwiki.
> Would anons have to be given one variant or the other, or would they
> get untransformed text or what?  Does the variant transformation apply
> to the edit page as well?
>

I have the same questions...

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Language variants

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Nice! ;-)

Do you think tables like these
http://pt.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wikcionário:Versões da língua portuguesa/Tabela
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Versões da língua portuguesa/tabela
could be a start point to a similar conversion system for pt <-> pt-br?

Meanwhile, I was also trying to adapt the Template:LangSwitch from
Wikimedia Commons
(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:LangSwitch), in order to
be able to use the template syntax like this:
{{Language variations| pt = word 1| pt-br = word 2}}

For this, I've created two pages:
* MediaWiki:Lang, with 'pt'
* MediaWiki:Lang/pt-br, with 'pt-br'

and the template code is essentially:
{{#switch:{{int:Lang}}
|pt-br={{{pt-br|}}}
|pt
|#default={{{pt|}}}
}}

But I wasn't able to create a param "default" in order we could set
which of the variants will be shown by default for anonymous users. It
would be good if we could use {{Language variations| default = pt-br |
pt = word 1| pt-br = word 2}} to get:
(a) word 2, for annonimous users;
(b) word 1, for logged users which choose 'pt' in their preferences;
(c) word 2, for logged users which choose 'pt-br' in their preferences;
The option (a) would be necessary if we don't want to change an
existing text from 'pt-br' to 'pt' (for anonymous users) just because
we want the logged users to be able to choose the "content variant".

Is there any way of detect if the reader is logged in with something
in the style {{#if:  | foo| bar}}?
(the problem with {{int:Lang}} is that for anonymous users and for
users who choose 'pt' the result is the same: 'pt', so I can't
distinguish these two cases at the template...)

Anyway, I think it would be better to have some kind of an automatized
conversion system, even if it doesn't convert all cases ( at least for
the words in the tables above it would be useful)

Thank you for all,

Helder

2009/9/9 Tim Starling :
> Roan Kattouw wrote:
>> That's the alphabet variant thing I mentioned earlier. If the majority
>> of the differences between pt and pt-br can be summed up with simple
>> rules that a computer can handle, we might be able to work something
>> out. However, that's usually not the case; I don't know Portugese, but
>> I do know that handling even simple differences between en-us and
>> en-gb is too complex already: a system that would successfully convert
>> 'realise' to 'realize' may also try to wrongfully convert 'disguise'.
>
> I don't know why you're writing this nonsense, you obviously haven't
> looked at the code at all.
>
> The language variant system that we have could easily convert between
> US and UK English. In fact it already does convert between a language
> pair with a far more complex relationship, that is Simplified and
> Traditional Chinese.
>
> The language conversion system is very simple, it's just a table of
> translated pairs, where the longest match takes precedence. The
> translation table in one direction (e.g. UK -> US) can be different to
> the table in the other direction (US -> UK). You would not list "ize
> -> ise", you would list every word in the dictionary with an -ize
> ending that can be translated to -ise without controversy. The current
> software could handle 50k pairs or so without serious performance
> problems, and it could be extended and optimised to allow millions of
> pairs if there was a need for that.
>
> It's possible to handle any pair of languages which are separated only
> by vocabulary, and transliteration or spelling. It's only differences
> in grammar, such as word order, that would give it trouble.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
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[Wikitech-l] Language variants

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hello!

I noticed at sr.wikipedia there is an option "Variant" under
"Internationalization" at the preferences. How is that different from
the 'sr', 'sr-ec' and 'sr-el' which are shown at "Language" option
(also under "Internationalization")?

I'm interested in this because there are some differences between
"Brazilian Portuguese" ('pt-br') and "Portuguese of Portugal" ('pt')
which usually cause troubles for the admins at the Portuguese
projects, who needs to warn the users not to change the wording of the
texts from one variant to another (this usually happens, mainly from
anonymous contributions), because some differences between the
variants seems to be [at a first glance] a typo, and they want to
"correct" it...

So, I would like to know if there is currently any feature which could
help us to avoid the problem of having a divided community of users
('pt' x 'pt-br') "fighting" with each other ad infinitum... (and to
avoid proposals like that [1] of a new "Brazilian Wikipedia", which
IMHO will not have any good result, and is not the better way of
solving the problem...)

I found 
[http://strategy.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposal_talk%3AA_Brazilian_Portuguese_Wikipedia&diff=14163&oldid=13621
a comment] about the existence of "on-the-fly translation" for some
languages (Chinese and Serbian), but I don't know how it works, and if
it solves or improve the situation.

And before this I was also thinking of use (a possible enhanced
version of) a procedure like this: considering that currently it is
possible to show a system message using {{int:MESSAGE}} in the
wikitext in a way that the result changes according to the user's
language, would it be possible to create new messages at "MediaWiki:"
Namespace just for defining language variants of words which usually
appears at the content of the projects? For example, would it be
possible to create "MediaWiki:WORD/pt-br" and "MediaWiki:WORD/pt", and
use them (with {{int:WORD}}) instead of the actual word variant in
wikitext? This isn't likely to be the better solution, but it could be
a first step towards a solution...

Any thoughts on how could Portuguese community improve the situation
at pt.* projects?
(is there any other list I should ask about this?)

Helder

[1] http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:A_Brazilian_Portuguese_Wikipedia

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[Wikitech-l] SQL

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hello!

I was looking at this code
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/intersection/DynamicPageList.php?view=markup

and trying to figure out how to change this piece of code

if ('lastedit' == $sOrderMethod)
$sSqlWhere .= ' ORDER BY page_touched ';
else
$sSqlWhere .= ' ORDER BY c1.cl_timestamp ';

$sSqlWhere .= $sSqlOrder;

in such way that the extension could order the list alphabetically.

I imagine it would be a simple change, like this:

switch ($sOrderMethod)
{
case 'lastedit':
$sSqlWhere .= ' ORDER BY page_touched ';
break;
case 'alphabetical':
$sSqlWhere .= ' ORDER BY WHAT? ';
break;
case 'categoryadd':
default:
$sSqlWhere .= ' ORDER BY c1.cl_timestamp ';
break;
}


But I don't know what to use in the SQL instead of the "WHAT?".
Does anybody knows what should it be?

Thanks in advance!

Helder
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[Wikitech-l] Links to Special:ListUsers/...

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hello!

Does anybody knows why the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers/autoreviewer
makes the target page to have the box on the right filled with
"Autoreviewers" and shows only the users in that group, while using a
translated name at pt.wikipedia, like
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Lista_de_utilizadores/Robôs
doesn't do the same thing? (in this example, we get a list of all users,
starting from "Robôs")

Is it possible to use a translated name in the link for this kind of special
page? (lists of users in a group)

Helder
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[Wikitech-l] Preload doesn't work at MediaWiki namespace?

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hi!

When we go to links such as:
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=Project:About&title=test
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=Project:About&title=MediaWiki:test
we note that both "test"and "MediaWiki:test" doesn't exist. But using the
preload parameter for the first page we get the text "#REDIRECT
[[wikibooks:Sobre]]" preloaded although for the second we don't.

Is this the expected behavior for MediaWiki namespace?

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] How sort key works?

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

2009/8/10 Aryeh Gregor

>

> We could break ties by appending the page title to custom sort keys,
> if this is a problem.
>

I think it would be good! =)

(We actually have manually used "*{{PAGENAME}}" for a while... =S)

Helder
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[Wikitech-l] How sort key works?

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hi!

Some time ago I was categorizing some pages at pt.wikibooks and I found the
following curious situation:
I've used the code [[Category:Test|*]] in these pages:
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=User:Heldergeovane/*Bi*
ologia_celular/Índice&action=edit
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=User:Heldergeovane/*Bo*
nsai_no_Brasil:_Índice&action=edit

So, we expect:
* Both pages should appear at "Category:Test" under "*", and
* "User:Heldergeovane/B*i*ologia_celular/Índice" should be before
"User:Heldergeovane/B*o*nsai_no_Brasil:_Índice" (since "i" comes first than
"o").

However, what we found at
http://pt.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Test
is the reverse order.

1) What is the criteria for ordering the pages when the sort key of two
pages are the same?
2) Is there anything wrong with the ordering of the two pages above?

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] URLs that aren't cool...

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

2009/7/28 Brion Vibber :
> A nearer-term help would be to go ahead and implement what we talked
> about a billion years ago but never got around to -- a decent "did you
> mean X?" message to display when you go to an empty page but there's
> something similar nearby.
>
> If it's at least trivial to click through from [[New york city]] to
> [[New York City]], that's better than having to search for it anew.

I think this would be really good to implement this, since it also
help us when creating and following interwiki links (see also the
point 3 I was talking here:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2009-July/044007.html)

Helder

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Interwiki linking

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

2009/7/10 Platonides :
> Seems you don't know the pipe trick. Type [[Lang:Project:Page|]] and it
> will be automatically expanded to [[Lang:Project:Page|Page]] on save.

Thank you Platonides!
I really didn't know this trick.

So, wouldn't be better to avoid duplication of long texts making
[[Lang:Project:Page|]] remains unexpanded on save (but still pointing
to "Lang:Project:Page" and showing the text "Page")?
Note that this is the behavior of [[/subpage/]] that generates the
same output as [[/subpage|subpage]] but not the same wikitext (and
this makes the wikicode more clear, so it is desirable).
This is more likely to be expected by the users:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Pipe_trick&oldid=197853113#You_live_and_learn.21
I mean, the wikitext is not supposed to change after we saves it...
(unless I use {{subst:...}})

Also, since the wikicode changes, it is _not_ likely the new wiki
users will found the syntax [[Foo|]] in the pages, so the only way
they could know the *trick* is to find the Help page about it. If the
[[Foo|]] were saved as is, this would be part of the syntax , not a
trick...

(a related link:
http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual_talk:Interwiki&oldid=262478#Hiding_the_interwiki_name.3F)

Helder

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Formatting links according to the wikiproject

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

2009/7/6, Aryeh Gregor :
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Ahmad Sherif
> wrote:
>> We make it strict to #bodyContent then :)
>>
>> #bodyContent a.extiw[href*=.wikipedia.org/w] { ... }
>
> [[b:Look at this strange Wikibooks page name! .wikipedia.org/what a
> strange name]]
>
> I'm not saying it's likely, but false positives are possible, and that
> should be kept in mind.
>
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[Wikitech-l] Interwiki linking

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hi!

Currently, when an editor create at some wikiproject an interwiki link
using [[Lang:Project:Page|Text]] the readers get a link to a "Page" of
"Project" (in the "Lang" language) and "Text" is shown in the link.
Besides this:
1) The "title" attribute of the  element is equals to (something
not very intuitive for readers): [[Lang:Project:Page]].

2) If "Text" is equals to "Page", and we want/need to show only the
"Page" text, it is needed to use [[Lang:Project:Page|Page]] (although
for local links [[A very long page name|A very long page name]] can be
abbreviated to [[A very long page name]])

3) When the target page doesn't exists, the reader go to a page
showing the system message "MediaWiki:Noarticletext".


I have some considerations:
1) What if the title attribute could be something more descriptive
like "Search at Project (in Lang) for pages related to 'Page'"?
The exact text could be translated for each language (or accordingly
to the target project), in such way that "Page", the real name of
"Project" (Wikipedia instead of "w", etc...) and the real name of
"Language" could be variables $1, $2, etc...;

2) For example, if in a page of a wikibook we need to use various
links to wiktionary and Wikinews, we would have to duplicate the total
size of each link (the number of characters to be typed) just to have
only the "Page" text shown. This is also bad for summaries, where we
can not use a long text. Perhaps another _short_ syntax could be used
to get "Page" instead of "Lang:Project:Page" without having to type
(the possible very long) "Page" two times (maybe the prefixed colon
[[:Lang:Project:Page]]?), in order to facilitate the integration
between the content of the projects;

3)Compare the following:
3.1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_collaboration
3.2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search/education_collaboration
and note that:
3.3) If the article "Education collaboration" exists, the two links
carries the reader to it.
3.4) If not, 3.1 could be frustrating for a reader that has clicked in
the link expecting to get (immediately) more information (remember,
not every reader wants to became an collaborator, and that is fine)
related to what he was reading. There are various reasons to the
reader get the "Noarticletext" message, as in 3.1:

3.4.1) If the editor that created the interwiki link wrongly typed
"colaboration" is his edit, the reader will get:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_colaboration
Note that in this case, something like 3.2 is better than 3.1, for the reader:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search/education_colaboration
I mean, he gets a message "Did you mean: education collaboration" and
still have some related links shown in the search results. While the
reader could prefer to go exactly to an Wikipedia article about
education and collaboration, and because of a typo (that could take a
long time to be corrected) he didn't, he could be happy to found
another article in the results (maybe one more interesting than the
article suggested by the editor who created the "wrong" link).

3.4.2) When writing, the editor simply imagine "There could be
something about this at Wikipedia, and some news at Wikinews, let me
create [[w:whis|this]] and [[n:whis|this]] links..." but instead of
search at Wikipedia and Wikinews for the exact text to put in each
link, he prefers to do a link using "keywords" like "education" and/or
"collaboration". But these [interwiki] links are not "red [interwiki]
links", so they could stay exactly as they were created for a long
time, and bother some readers in the meantime...

3.4.3) Some editor do a search for "Education And Collaboration" at
Wikipedia and find a page (say, "Education and collaboration"). So he
creates a link (by copy and paste) pointing to "Education And
Collaboration" that is not at Wikipedia, because of the "A" and "C".
Then, although the search engine is case insensitive and the editor
has found the article when he _searched_ for it at Wikipedia, the
reader that will _click_ in the link will not go directly to the
article.
3.4.4 And so on...

The enhancement of these features can be achieved easily by means of a
template whit code similar to this:
 Begin of Template:Wikt 
[[wikt:Special:Search/{{{1}}}|{{{2|{{{1}}]]
 End of Template:Wikt 

then, we can use:
* {{wikt|word|text}} instead of [[wikt:word|text]]
* {{wikt|word}} instead of [[wikt:word|word]]
and each of the resulting links points to
* http://en.wikitionary.org/wiki/Special:Search/word
instead of
* http://en.wikitionary.org/wiki/word
Note that with "Special:Search/" links, the reader still gets a red
link for easily create the page  (if he wants to became an editor)
when no result is found.

I would like to hear from you if, besides the need of use a template
syntax just for create links, is there any other (technical/practical)
disadvantages (advantages?) of using such behavior in the interwiki
links (with or without using templates), 

[Wikitech-l] Formatting links according to the wikiproject

[Helder Geovane Gomes de Lima]

Hi!

Is there any way of customize the formatting of links according to the
wikiproject that they are pointing to?
For example, if at Wikibooks we want to make the links to Wikipedia to be
green and the links to the Wiktionary to have and dotted grey underline (or
if some user wants to have a complete rainbow of colors and effects in his
links ;-)), or each of these links have an small icon corresponding to the
project, how could this be achieved? Is there any css classes for the links?

Thanks,
Helder
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