Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
So David, I guess it is fair for me to assume that you don't agree the the government paying some NOT to grow wheat or NOT to raise pigs so that those that DO can survive on a reasonable profit margin and not be flooded by over production creating too much product for not enough demand...? :) On 8/9/06 8:57 AM, David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
Your assumption is correct. Using your example of wheat, if you let free markets operate, then farmers who couldn't survive growing wheat would stop growing wheat and switch to a crop that would make them more money. I believe that all government subsidies should be eliminated and that we should pay market prices for goods and services. Government subsidies are nothing more than price manipulation and welfare for businesses. They cost taxpayers more money than it would if we just paid the market price for products and services, because there is the added cost of government oversight and dispursement of funds. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] So David, I guess it is fair for me to assume that you don't agree the the government paying some NOT to grow wheat or NOT to raise pigs so that those that DO can survive on a reasonable profit margin and not be flooded by over production creating too much product for not enough demand...? :) On 8/9/06 8:57 AM, David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
I could take offense pretty easy at most of your comments - - so I will just choose to NOT make any comments at all :) Regards from deep in rural Louisiana, Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Rayville, La. www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.radioresponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4181 318.303.4182 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sovereen Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Durbin introduces ...
That's a naive thought, especially in a global economy where many governments subsidize. But this really isn't the place for politics, right? - Peter David Sovereen wrote: Your assumption is correct. Using your example of wheat, if you let free markets operate, then farmers who couldn't survive growing wheat would stop growing wheat and switch to a crop that would make them more money. I believe that all government subsidies should be eliminated and that we should pay market prices for goods and services. Government subsidies are nothing more than price manipulation and welfare for businesses. They cost taxpayers more money than it would if we just paid the market price for products and services, because there is the added cost of government oversight and dispursement of funds. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
I wrote a 5 paragraph response to David as well on this subject, then erased it all. I am with you Mac and will choose to NOT make any derogatory comments at all. It just a shame to see all of these government programs being given to the RBOC's and others that abuse the money. Regards from rural Indiana where 35% of our population resides. Regards, David Weddell Director of Sales 260 827 2551 Office 800 363 4881 Ext 2551 260 273 7547 Cell www.onlyinternet.net www.oibw.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:06 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] I could take offense pretty easy at most of your comments - - so I will just choose to NOT make any comments at all :) Regards from deep in rural Louisiana, Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Rayville, La. www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.radioresponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4181 318.303.4182 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sovereen Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/414 - Release Date: 8/9/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/414 - Release Date: 8/9/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Lightning hits
I have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static. Until I can get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question. If I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio survive? It is still in the air, but there is no power to it. I am trying to save the RF side. Will it work. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
Not that I agree with you 100%, but I've seen people move here and assume broadband was available to them. When they find out they can't have it they all say I make my living on the net and I need it bad I always wonder what they were thinking. Anyways, government funding is fine if done right and by right I mean in a fair non wasteful way. George David Sovereen wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
Yes, I totally DISAGREE with the government paying people to NOT grow crops. What ever happened to supply and demand? I thought that was lesson #1 in Economics. Travis Microserv Cliff Leboeuf wrote: So David, I guess it is fair for me to assume that you don't agree the the government paying some NOT to grow wheat or NOT to raise pigs so that those that DO can survive on a reasonable profit margin and not be flooded by over production creating too much product for not enough demand...? :) On 8/9/06 8:57 AM, "David Sovereen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: "Chadd Thompson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie..."I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introducesbilltoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
5 Paragraphs ? I had to delete an entire page. David doesn't realize just how much of the rural tax $$ goes to support City living and that if it weren't for rural american coming into and shopping in City, Cities wouldn't have the programs or $$ that it has. For the rest of my feelings, Its best I just keep my fingers still :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Weddell Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:27 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introducesbilltoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] I wrote a 5 paragraph response to David as well on this subject, then erased it all. I am with you Mac and will choose to NOT make any derogatory comments at all. It just a shame to see all of these government programs being given to the RBOC's and others that abuse the money. Regards from rural Indiana where 35% of our population resides. Regards, David Weddell Director of Sales 260 827 2551 Office 800 363 4881 Ext 2551 260 273 7547 Cell www.onlyinternet.net www.oibw.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:06 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] I could take offense pretty easy at most of your comments - - so I will just choose to NOT make any comments at all :) Regards from deep in rural Louisiana, Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Rayville, La. www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.radioresponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4181 318.303.4182 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sovereen Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/414 - Release Date: 8/9/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/414 - Release
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encourage high speedinternet access in rural areas]
- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encourage high speedinternet access in rural areas] Replies below: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I'm not nearly as impressed with this as you are John. I never described this with the word impressed. I am never impressed that easily! :-) Money to study the issue AND a task force? To study an issue that the senator has already laid out? That the fcc's broadband task force AND spectrum policy force have studied to death? bull. I think part of this is to help the Connect SI initiative in Durbin's district of which I am a supporting member. It is a group dedicated to analyzing the availability of broadband, developing plans to build more broadband availability, build a common peering facility in the region and ways to use it to positively impact the economy in Southern Illinois. Sadly the WISPs walked out before anyone even had a chance to see what was on the table. This is a good deal for us if people just try. That is too much to ask many WISPs though it seems. I am the only WISP in the group. I am also the only small company who would donate time and money to the effort. If people want to see the government do positive things then they have to be part of the effort. Telling the government to buzz off does not work. Yeah, you are correct there. I'm headed to the http://www.communitiesconnect.org/ meetings next week. It's a waste of time as it's all aimed at orgs that already get most or all of their money from the public troth. But I'll be there (only two of us wisps at the last one) anyway. Maybe I can either learn something or contribute a dose of reality. I agree, we've burried our heads in the sand for too long. I have NO desire to see the broadband industry follow the dialup model. Not the way that there's ended up being no way for the average dialup isp to upgrade to a good broadband program. It's an election year scam. Nice of you to sum up the hundreds of hours I have committed to state level broadband initiatives as an election year scam. If this goes the way I want then my service area will be color coded by signal availability down to the quarter-section level on the plat book and I will have access to every state and federal program for broadband available. I do not lobby for programs to be created but I do tell the politicians what I need to bring broadband to rural areas when they ask e and a good part of what Durbin is stating has to do with things me and others have asked him to do to help. As I said below, I could be wrong about the program. But look where the TV band issue has ended up. Worse yet, USF. It's about money and publicity John. PLEASE, let Durbin and anyone that supports his ideas prove me wrong! I'd be happy to be proven a fool on this one. Big time. In the mean time, I'll help where I can, put in my $.25 worth and do all I can. But I'll not bet my familie's future on it. Not in a million years. Not when I have no power and no money and no people in my coverage zones. No one cares about us any more than it takes to use us to push through a program that helps the incombants. In a way, it's expected. You and I go to our friends first when looking for help in solving a problem right? It's human nature. It's just very frustrating to not be one of the friends :-). Naturally, the devil is always in the details. I'm REALLY against the study crap, it's totally redundant. But the grants and auction reform may be nice. Have to see what they really put together. In case you do not remember t has been me for a long time saying that too much money is going to loans and not enough to grants. This is being addressed here unless he drops the ball. I saw that. It's certainly a step in the right direction. USF would have been, by far, the best way to cover this. If I got the same subsidy rate that century tel gets already I would have nearly $30,000 more MONTHLY income than I have today. And it wouldn't cost the government anymore debt. And with that much more money coming in every month I'd find a way to put service out to anyone that wanted it. I'd be able to cover 100% of my areas. And I'd be able to do it with a top notch network. I could hire some help and that would be good for the local ecconomies too. Oh well, maybe next time. I had such high hopes for USF reform, but that's not only not gotten better, it's gonna be worse for us. And it looks like the TV band issue is either dead of wrapped up in junk that'll make it worthless too. What is your source of information on the TV bands? I have not received a single negative message in regard to the TV reform issues. If you want some USF funds then signup and get a SPIN number. Ask your
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encourage high speedinternet access in rural areas]
too much money is going to loans and not enough to grants. Where does it say it supports that? If people want to see the government do positive things then they have to be part of the effort That I agree with. A small StartUp in MD, got the state government to back their inititive with a million in funds for an Eastern Shore project (if their own financing did not come through) with surplus unspend funds from the year's budget. I believe the biggest reason was because they got involved and were the ones that showed up at the tech committe meetings for two years. Its a gamble, but it can work out for those that put in the time and effort. I believe that any governemnet program is a plus, because it increases awareness. One program/bill does not prevent additional more helpful ones to be added also, as we improve awareness. The bill is a winner, even if its the only thing it successfully provides is the renewal of the Rural loan program. Even if I don't personally have areas that qualify, and alot of that money goes to Telcos. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encourage high speedinternet access in rural areas] Replies below: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I'm not nearly as impressed with this as you are John. I never described this with the word impressed. I am never impressed that easily! :-) Money to study the issue AND a task force? To study an issue that the senator has already laid out? That the fcc's broadband task force AND spectrum policy force have studied to death? bull. I think part of this is to help the Connect SI initiative in Durbin's district of which I am a supporting member. It is a group dedicated to analyzing the availability of broadband, developing plans to build more broadband availability, build a common peering facility in the region and ways to use it to positively impact the economy in Southern Illinois. Sadly the WISPs walked out before anyone even had a chance to see what was on the table. This is a good deal for us if people just try. That is too much to ask many WISPs though it seems. I am the only WISP in the group. I am also the only small company who would donate time and money to the effort. If people want to see the government do positive things then they have to be part of the effort. Telling the government to buzz off does not work. It's an election year scam. Nice of you to sum up the hundreds of hours I have committed to state level broadband initiatives as an election year scam. If this goes the way I want then my service area will be color coded by signal availability down to the quarter-section level on the plat book and I will have access to every state and federal program for broadband available. I do not lobby for programs to be created but I do tell the politicians what I need to bring broadband to rural areas when they ask e and a good part of what Durbin is stating has to do with things me and others have asked him to do to help. Naturally, the devil is always in the details. I'm REALLY against the study crap, it's totally redundant. But the grants and auction reform may be nice. Have to see what they really put together. In case you do not remember t has been me for a long time saying that too much money is going to loans and not enough to grants. This is being addressed here unless he drops the ball. I had such high hopes for USF reform, but that's not only not gotten better, it's gonna be worse for us. And it looks like the TV band issue is either dead of wrapped up in junk that'll make it worthless too. What is your source of information on the TV bands? I have not received a single negative message in regard to the TV reform issues. If you want some USF funds then signup and get a SPIN number. Ask your local school to help you. They can set you up in about an hour. You can collect some USF now. Scriv It always seems to go back to the government supporting the people that live off of it first and those of us that feed it last. Getting cynical in my old age. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Frannie Wellings [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:50 PM Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encourage high speed internet access in rural areas] This is the US Senator in my district in Illinois. It looks
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
Farmers do not have the abilty to live in the city. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/414 - Release Date: 8/9/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
America wants cheap food. Period. In the past, cattle took better than 30 months to reach slaughter weight on grass. Under current industrialized agricultural methods cattle can go from birth to the meat case in less than 12 months. Its very similar for chickens, hogs or any other common form of protein we consume on a daily basis. All this requires cheap grain, which in turn is produced with assistance of govt. subsidization. In the past, meat was often a luxury meal for most Americans. Now we all get to eat it nearly every day. Most of my neighbors farm. I dont know one of them that would be taking subsidies just to screw the American taxpayer. Farmers usually just end up being a small cog in the great wheel of food production. So, if you dont like the system, dont participate. Buy all your food from a local producer and pay the actual price of production+profit. Dont patronize Safeway, or Walmart or Kroger etc.- otherwise you are implicitly participating in the system. Its a much more complicated issue than just paying farmers not to produce. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] Yes, I totally DISAGREE with the government paying people to NOT grow crops. What ever happened to supply and demand? I thought that was lesson #1 in Economics. Travis Microserv Cliff Leboeuf wrote: So David,I guess it is fair for me to assume that you don't agree the the governmentpaying some NOT to grow wheat or NOT to raise pigs so that those that DO cansurvive on a reasonable profit margin and not be flooded by over productioncreating too much product for not enough demand...?:)On 8/9/06 8:57 AM, David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, andgovernment subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speedInternet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on theshoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your networkor for Joe User to get your service.If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to livein rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services(water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anythingand everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No onemakes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and theyshould take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associatedwith that decision.Just my own 2 cents.Dave989-837-3790 x 151989-837-3780 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.mercury.net129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640- Original Message -From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgSent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PMSubject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup andinstallation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your ownpocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not beable to hook up to a WISP.Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access.Thanks,Chadd -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jeff BroadwickSent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'mhere to helpyou:-)Jeff BroadwickImageStream800-813-5123 x106 --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
I personally beleive it should be the local cities taking the loans from the federal governement, so they can distribute grants to local providers. Payback justified by increased local taxes (paid by users of the service) as they become more productive as economic development grows. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/414 - Release Date: 8/9/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
David Weddell wrote: I wrote a 5 paragraph response to David as well on this subject, then erased it all. I am with you Mac and will choose to NOT make any derogatory comments at all. It just a shame to see all of these government programs being given to the RBOC's and others that abuse the money. Regards from rural Indiana where 35% of our population resides. I about said something as well. Even though I live in the city now, I spend the largest part of my life in a rural area. To be honest I miss East Central Indiana! Jeremy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
/ Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ __ NOD32 1.1699 (20060809) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] ARC Wireless Cat5 cable (need to order)
I ran out of cable and ARC wireless is waiting for 35k foot of cable to be in their Q before they order. Last time I ordered it was .689 cents a foot for the outdoor gel filled with drain wire. But the raw materials have gone up 40% I hear. So we'd be doing good to get it $100 to $120 a spool. So anyway, I am trying to spark some orders so I can get good cable at good prices. The ARC guy is getting back to me with the quote for the 35k. He will ship to multiple addresses and take multiple payments. I only use 1-2000 foot a month and I am small, so I know some of you guys can get a few rolls. I will be posting the cat5 spec sheet and the final price per foot later. I'm not going to bother them with 35 people wanting 1 roll. If you can get 4-5 rolls give me a shout and I'll pass on the info to ARC that you want to be added to the 35k buy I'm setting up and you will pay them and get shipment from them. Disclaimer: I get nothing from this except the 4-5 spools I order for myself at the same price you pay. ps Get in on this order. I can't find cable anywhere else for under $200 a spool. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Taxation to support rural internet service (WAS: Senator Durbin....)
On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, David Sovereen wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. There is a reality that you are missing here. The USF was established to do EXACTLY this for rural telephone services. Without USF, telephone services in the rural parts of the country would be unavailable or unreasonably expensive. Like many programs the government dreams up, the USF program is somewhat out of hand (but that's another topic). As for you (Joe Taxpayer) paying to expand another network (or subsidizing Joe User's access) you may not realize this, but you are already doing this in the form of USF $$. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it is, none the less, a fact. In reality, I agree with you to a certain extent. Not entirely, however. I think that any program initiated by the government will eventually be corrupted and be abused. It will, also, grow beyond it's initial intention and never be able to be dropped. SO, why would a bill like this be considered a good thing by a group like this (that is comprised of mostly conservative people)? I think it is partly $$. I believe it is partly due to the understanding that many on this list have that bringing broadband access to certain areas is simply unrealistic due to economic realities. Broadband access is important to our national economy for a variety of reasons. It is not simply a matter of Joe User's kids chatting with other kids, Joe's wife playing Scrabble online or Joe surfing porn late at night. Broadband access can make a real and measurable difference in a local economy. This is more than just profits for the ISP. I only hope that if a program such as what is being discussed here is implemented, that it is geared toward making it possible for small providers (or even new startups) to participate. We (the government) should be careful to not create another USF type monster, although that is my fear. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. I won't even go here. This is mostly just ridiculous ranting. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Taxation to support rural internet service (WAS: Senator Durbin....)
On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, David Sovereen wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. There is a reality that you are missing here. The USF was established to do EXACTLY this for rural telephone services. Without USF, telephone services in the rural parts of the country would be unavailable or unreasonably expensive. Like many programs the government dreams up, the USF program is somewhat out of hand (but that's another topic). As for you (Joe Taxpayer) paying to expand another network (or subsidizing Joe User's access) you may not realize this, but you are already doing this in the form of USF $$. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it is, none the less, a fact. In reality, I agree with you to a certain extent. Not entirely, however. I think that any program initiated by the government will eventually be corrupted and be abused. It will, also, grow beyond it's initial intention and never be able to be dropped. SO, why would a bill like this be considered a good thing by a group like this (that is comprised of mostly conservative people)? I think it is partly $$. I believe it is partly due to the understanding that many on this list have that bringing broadband access to certain areas is simply unrealistic due to economic realities. Broadband access is important to our national economy for a variety of reasons. It is not simply a matter of Joe User's kids chatting with other kids, Joe's wife playing Scrabble online or Joe surfing porn late at night. Broadband access can make a real and measurable difference in a local economy. This is more than just profits for the ISP. I only hope that if a program such as what is being discussed here is implemented, that it is geared toward making it possible for small providers (or even new startups) to participate. We (the government) should be careful to not create another USF type monster, although that is my fear. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. I won't even go here. This is mostly just ridiculous ranting. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
Oh boy, this is gonna be GREAT (said in my best Animal House voice) Unlike some others here I'm gonna take this on. Please feel free to expand on my thoughts as needed. WISPA is a political organization guys. We work with the FCC, congress, state and local governments. Eventually we'll help other countries make things better for their people too. It's important that people here, especially the business owners, understand how things REALLY work. To get to that point we have to talk to each other about what happens on OUR watch. Otherwise all we learn is one sided and we can't form reality based opinions. Having said that, I agree with you 100% David. As far as you've gone.. We own thousands of acres. Not me, my parents though. We get a LOT of money for not growing wheat every year. Believe me, it's not a good thing for the community. We buy less fuel, equipment, fertilizer, insurance etc. etc. etc. Many farm towns are all but dead because they can't support the churches, grocery stores, clothing stores, hardware stores etc. Wal-Mart hasn't helped, but mostly it's the lost of bodies that has hurt. When the school district is loosing kids you know people, especially the next generation just aren't staying here. But what's a body to do? Out here most of the ground we're being paid not to raise crops on is really bad ground. It should not have ever been pulled from grazeland in the first place. But there's not always been more food than people, so folks planted every acre they could. Farming used to be a good living. Back before Jimmy Carter that is. His choice to use food as a political weapon caused other countries to start growing a LOT of food. And our wonderful universities and government was all too happy to teach them how. So now we don't feed you AND the whole world. We feed you and part of the world. Farmers today compete against Australia, south america, China and a lot of other countries. Here we have more rules that everyone, not only the farmers but the suppliers of our chemicals and machinery too, have to follow so our costs are often driven much higher than our competitors. But we've got good ground and we know how to take care of it so we can probably keep up that way. Many of those other countries subsidize their farmers or tax our incoming crops though. Sometimes both. In those cases we certainly can not compete. If we can't compete we go out of business. If no one in the industry can compete the industry eventually shuts down. When's the last time you saw a wagon wheel plant? Or a blacksmith shop? It does happen. In those cases though, there's been something else, something better to take it's place. What are you going to do for food if you can't afford to grow it here? You can live without your computers if someone blocks the ships coming to our shores. You can survive without your TV, radio, mp3 player etc. Let me ask you, if there's another big war and you were on the other side, what's the first thing you'd do? Me, I'd shut down America's access to the rest of the world. Without America many economies would collapse, war materials couldn't get out, and nothing, including (especially???) food would get in. Governments know that as long as people are eating it's not likely that they will revolt. When they start to starve, when the children die, bullets start to fly. And NO government, even the mighty Romans, survives when the people are against them. The USA spends less per capita on food than almost any country in the world. If you allow too many farmers to go broke that won't be the case. You'll have to buy food instead of that new car. Here's where it gets really interesting. Did you know that the farmers can't sell their crops themselves in most cases? There are two or three exporters in the whole country. They sell the wheat AND set the prices that the farmers are paid. I can't go to, say, China, and say, Look, you're paying $5 for a bushel of wheat. I only get $3.75, how about if I sell to you at $4.50 and we both win? How would you like to have to sell your internet to EarthLink, AOL, or MSN? At whatever rate they decided you should get? That's much the way farming works. As for other crops it's not that simple. Believe it or not, farmers aren't stupid. They are often some of the sharpest most business savvy people you'll ever meet. When crop prices are LOWER than they were in the 1970's and have been since then almost ever year we weeded out the stupid ones a long time ago. IF they are in the right climate they already grow something else. IF they have the right amount of water (our latest well is 2240' deep, $500,000 to put it in and you don't even want to know about that electricity bill!). IF there is a market. The list goes on and is very long. When we can, we DO grow other crops. Right now we have garbanzo beans, wheat,
RE: [WISPA] ARC Wireless Cat5 cable (need to order)
Brian, Try http://www.kendallelectric.com/locations.asp. We buy a lot of cable from them. There should be a location close to you. Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:48 PM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] ARC Wireless Cat5 cable (need to order) I ran out of cable and ARC wireless is waiting for 35k foot of cable to be in their Q before they order. Last time I ordered it was .689 cents a foot for the outdoor gel filled with drain wire. But the raw materials have gone up 40% I hear. So we'd be doing good to get it $100 to $120 a spool. So anyway, I am trying to spark some orders so I can get good cable at good prices. The ARC guy is getting back to me with the quote for the 35k. He will ship to multiple addresses and take multiple payments. I only use 1-2000 foot a month and I am small, so I know some of you guys can get a few rolls. I will be posting the cat5 spec sheet and the final price per foot later. I'm not going to bother them with 35 people wanting 1 roll. If you can get 4-5 rolls give me a shout and I'll pass on the info to ARC that you want to be added to the 35k buy I'm setting up and you will pay them and get shipment from them. Disclaimer: I get nothing from this except the 4-5 spools I order for myself at the same price you pay. ps Get in on this order. I can't find cable anywhere else for under $200 a spool. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Durbin Bill Follow-Up.
Hi all, When I met with Durbin's staff at the end of July, we talked a lot about provisions 1 3 that are now in the bill. However, I've also just learned that there may be a poison pill in the bill that makes unlicensed use of the TV broadcast spectrum illegal (which is also something that me and a lot of other folks have been working on for quite some time), which would change my take on the bill rather dramatically. I'm following up with Durbin's folks this week, so if there's any message/info I should pass along, just let me know, --Sascha -- Sascha Meinrath Executive Director * Principal * President CUWiN *** The Ethos Group *** Acorn Active Media CUWireless.Net * EthosWireless.com * AcornActiveMedia.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taxation to support rural internet service (WAS: SenatorDurbin....)
Butch... It's all nice and great to think that a little bit of money can go a long ways to improving rural life... But, we live in the real world, where handouts go to those most adept at grabbing them, not providing what they're supposed to be used for. The money is with the telcos, the lawyers are hired by the telcos, the lobbyists are with the telcos. And, like it or not, Durbin cares not about you, or me, or any other WISP, but about getting elected. So long as he can strut around saying I brough broadband to the rural areas, it won't matter if it's real, if it's just another handout to the telcos, or if it ever works... He'll still use it as a vote getter that will work for a certain number of both rural and city people. Seriously, the last thing I want is some program that gives money to someone who has more interest in grabbing handouts than providing services. If Durbin REALLY wants to do something real... Then... here's what he can do: Protected spectrum for rural WISP's. FREE or true low-cost federal land use for location of communications infrastructure.If any of you have ever tried to deploy out west, you understand just how impenetrable a wall federal land has become. The US Forest Service explained that to locate a communications site of ANY size on federal land would cost in excess of three quarters of a million dollars in fees, environmental impact studies, engineering studies, etc, etc. Thus, unless you can find private land to hopscotch across, federal land is a completely impenetrable wall where communications services of ANY kind are concerned, unless you're Qwest or ATT. Tax credit to the provider for each customer serviced within the defined rural areas - basically, stop taxing rural providers. This means, that should 2 providers come to town, each can benefit from rural subsidy, if we're going to do that. To summarize, instead of money that people compete or apply for, instead, we remove many of the obstacles for rural deployment, and financially assist ANY provider who comes in and provides service.Does this sound like USF? Well, sort of... With the exception that there is no qualification for who can receive the credits, and the money can't be sucked up by a non-provider, or someone who's just applying for it to prevent others from getting it (yes, local wisp did that, got MILLIONS tied up but never used the loans, to prevent anyone else from doing it). It's time to stop thinking conventional, playing the same old political games. Those lead to precisely what we do not want. - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: [WISPA] Taxation to support rural internet service (WAS: SenatorDurbin) On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, David Sovereen wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. There is a reality that you are missing here. The USF was established to do EXACTLY this for rural telephone services. Without USF, telephone services in the rural parts of the country would be unavailable or unreasonably expensive. Like many programs the government dreams up, the USF program is somewhat out of hand (but that's another topic). As for you (Joe Taxpayer) paying to expand another network (or subsidizing Joe User's access) you may not realize this, but you are already doing this in the form of USF $$. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it is, none the less, a fact. In reality, I agree with you to a certain extent. Not entirely, however. I think that any program initiated by the government will eventually be corrupted and be abused. It will, also, grow beyond it's initial intention and never be able to be dropped. SO, why would a bill like this be considered a good thing by a group like this (that is comprised of mostly conservative people)? I think it is partly $$. I believe it is partly due to the understanding that many on this list have that bringing broadband access to certain areas is simply unrealistic due to economic realities. Broadband access is important to our national economy for a variety of reasons. It is not simply a matter of Joe User's kids chatting with other kids, Joe's wife playing Scrabble online or Joe surfing porn late at night. Broadband access can make a real and measurable difference in a local economy. This is more than just profits for the ISP. I only hope that if a program such as what is being discussed here is implemented, that it is geared toward making it possible for small providers (or even new startups) to participate. We (the government) should be careful to not create another
RE: [WISPA] Lightning hits
I'm not 100% sure, but my first inclination would be no. If lightning hits your tower and the equipment/tower is not properly grounded with surge suppression in place, it will get blown, whether it is powered up or not. Current is still going to flow through the radio; it just won't make it out the Ethernet because you unplugged the line. Chad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:32 AM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hits I have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static. Until I can get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question. If I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio survive? It is still in the air, but there is no power to it. I am trying to save the RF side. Will it work. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lightning hits
I am not worried about lightning strikes because I cannot stop that. Mostly the part where stuff catches on fire. The problem seems to lie in the fact that I have an 11ft tall omni that is the second tallest thing on the tower and it sucks in static like a vaccum and takes out the RF side. So would powering off save the RF until I figure out what can be done with the tower (grain leg) Brian Chad Halsted wrote: I'm not 100% sure, but my first inclination would be no. If lightning hits your tower and the equipment/tower is not properly grounded with surge suppression in place, it will get blown, whether it is powered up or not. Current is still going to flow through the radio; it just won't make it out the Ethernet because you unplugged the line. Chad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:32 AM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hits I have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static. Until I can get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question. If I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio survive? It is still in the air, but there is no power to it. I am trying to save the RF side. Will it work. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Lightning hits
I really don't think it's going to make a difference. If it's pulling in that much energy through the antenna, it's got to go somewhere, and the only place it can go is through your pigtail strait to the radio. If the radio isn't properly grounded to the tower, and the tower properly grounded to well, the ground, something is going to get smoked. I don't THINK it's going to matter much if the power is on or not. But hey, it's worth a shot. It sure won't hurt to try. One of our 50' towers has a big ham yagi antenna on the top of it. The home owner said that his yagi was pulling in so much static he could hear it arcing from across the room. It was arcing from the connector on the end of the cable to a nail that was driven into a 2X4 stud. There wasn't a cloud in the sky at that time either. That's some crazy stuff. Good Luck! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning hits I am not worried about lightning strikes because I cannot stop that. Mostly the part where stuff catches on fire. The problem seems to lie in the fact that I have an 11ft tall omni that is the second tallest thing on the tower and it sucks in static like a vaccum and takes out the RF side. So would powering off save the RF until I figure out what can be done with the tower (grain leg) Brian Chad Halsted wrote: I'm not 100% sure, but my first inclination would be no. If lightning hits your tower and the equipment/tower is not properly grounded with surge suppression in place, it will get blown, whether it is powered up or not. Current is still going to flow through the radio; it just won't make it out the Ethernet because you unplugged the line. Chad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:32 AM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hits I have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static. Until I can get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question. If I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio survive? It is still in the air, but there is no power to it. I am trying to save the RF side. Will it work. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taxation to support rural internet service (WAS: SenatorDurbin....)
On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Butch... It's all nice and great to think that a little bit of money can go a long ways to improving rural life... Perhaps you didn't read the whole message I posted. It sounds like you are trying to disagree by saying the same thing I did. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lightning hits
Hey Brian, You should have a lightning arrestor between the antenna and radio, well grounded to the tower, also an arrestor between the radio and your red barn, well grounded. That should protect the radio as well as can be. 7/1/05, my tower was hit, I had all the arrestors in place, and well grounded. Of the 4 AP's on the tower one survived, but I have had good luck since.Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:32 AMTo: 'Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization'Subject: [WISPA] Lightning hitsI have a Canopy 900 that is getting taken out from static. Until I can get the right solution in place to prevent this, I have a question. If I unplug the power from the radio when a storm is coming will the radio survive? It is still in the air, but there is no power to it. I am trying to save the RF side. Will it work.Brian-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
Scriv, I agree with you now. It feels right. But, this country has risen to the occasion, during different parts of its growth, to make spectacularly prescient moves...the TVA, rural provisioning of telephony, and the Interstate highways notwithstanding. It has also made very dumb decisions...too many to list. We only need to be very diligent to assure ourselves that this move is or isn't one of the dumb ones. I don't want to be a neo-Luddite, either. Luxemburg isn't our only global competition. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] Let me be clear. I would rather the government stay out of broadband altogether. I honestly mean that. I think it is a shame that our government gets involved in as many things involving broadband as they do. The trouble is that they will not stay out of our business. So the next thing we have to decide is whether we just let them blindly regulate, tax and screw up the system or if we take an active role in making the system work for us if it is going to be working for someone. I hope that makes sense. It is honestly how I feel and is why I am as active in state and federal level issues as I am. Think of it this way, there will be grants for broadband over the next year, would you like it or would you rather other people get it? Somebody will be getting that money. Most of my efforts have to do with providing tax breaks and other incentives to smaller broadband companies to offer service in harder to reach areas. I am also part of a few public / private partnering groups who are trying to improve economic opportunity in our region by using broadband as a catalyst. Maybe it will work or maybe it will not. The one thing I can tell you though is that we are not creating new taxes. We are using existing programs and our own money to try to make the outlook for broadband and our economy better in our region (Southern Illinois). Scriv David Sovereen wrote: Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and government subsidies? Why should the burden of providing high-speed Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the shoulders of taxpayers? I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your network or for Joe User to get your service. If people want services, they should live in a city. If they want to live in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about anything and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive. No one makes people live in the country. People choose to on their own, and they should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services associated with that decision. Just my own 2 cents. Dave 989-837-3790 x 151 989-837-3780 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mercury.net 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI 48640 - Original Message - From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup and installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money where it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not be able to hook up to a WISP. Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get access. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas] Don't forget the 3rd great lie...I'm from the government and I'm here to help you :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Spectrum Auction Began Today
August 9, 2006 FOR SALE: Spectrum By Roy Mark Let the bidding begin. Wednesday morning, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) opens its advanced wireless services (AWS) auction with hopes of bagging as much as $15 billion from cell phone providers, cable companies, satellite broadcasters and outright speculators. Given the explosive demand for spectrum to deliver wireless video and broadband services, the FCC might well hit its target. In all, the FCC will put up for auction 1,122 AWS licenses in the 1710-1755 MHz and 2110-2155 MHz bands. The spectrum was previously occupied by the Department of Defense. The country's dominant cell phone providers -- Verizon Wireless, Sprint Nextel and Cingular -- certainly all want a piece of the action and are expected to be major players in the auction, which may last up to a month or longer. The Big Three will likely face fierce bidding from T-Mobile, the nation's number four cell phone provider. A unit of Deutsche Telekom, T-Mobile USA currently lacks the capacity to provision mobile broadband. Cable giants Comcast, Time Warner and Cox also figure into the equation as they seek to add wireless phone service to their popular bundles of television, telephone and broadband. Satellite television providers DirecTV and EchoStar are also expected to make a serious splash in the bidding as they increasingly feel the pinch from bundled cable offers. DirecTV and EchoStar, fierce competitors on any given day, are so serious about grabbing some spectrum for broadband services they formed a partnership known as Wireless DBS and dropped a $972.5 million check on the FCC to guarantee their bidding spot. Comcast is also playing the combination game, joining with Sprint Nextel to put up $637.9 million to grab a spot in the auction queue. Adding to the mix are speculators such as Wall Street money manager Mario Gabelli, who last month paid a $130 million fine to settle civil litigation charges he rigged a few bids in a previous FCC spectrum auction. According to the Department of Justice (DoJ) complaint, the FCC established rules for certain auctions that permitted only small or very small businesses to participate or to qualify for bidding credits and favorable financing. The DoJ said although Gabelli and his affiliated companies did not qualify for these auctions, he nevertheless masterminded a scheme to participate in the wireless auctions. Despite the fine, Gabelli and his affiliates qualified for this FCC spectrum auction. For the losers of the complex process, hope awaits in 2008, when the FCC is expected to auction off the spectrum being deserted by television broadcasters moving to digital broadcasting. That auction is expected to shatter this month's expected record proceeds, since the spectrum previously used by the broadcasters can penetrate through mountains and dense urban areas. Respectively Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbinintroduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
C'mon back! We miss you! :-) Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davis Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbinintroduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas] David Weddell wrote: I wrote a 5 paragraph response to David as well on this subject, then erased it all. I am with you Mac and will choose to NOT make any derogatory comments at all. It just a shame to see all of these government programs being given to the RBOC's and others that abuse the money. Regards from rural Indiana where 35% of our population resides. I about said something as well. Even though I live in the city now, I spend the largest part of my life in a rural area. To be honest I miss East Central Indiana! Jeremy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
I'm glad that my office lost power for over an hour. I got to read your email in full. (ISP running on generator though :) On 8/9/06 11:56 AM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh boy, this is gonna be GREAT (said in my best Animal House voice) Unlike some others here I'm gonna take this on. Please feel free to expand on my thoughts as needed. WISPA is a political organization guys. We work with the FCC, congress, state and local governments. Eventually we'll help other countries make things better for their people too. It's important that people here, especially the business owners, understand how things REALLY work. To get to that point we have to talk to each other about what happens on OUR watch. Otherwise all we learn is one sided and we can't form reality based opinions. Having said that, I agree with you 100% David. As far as you've gone.. We own thousands of acres. Not me, my parents though. We get a LOT of money for not growing wheat every year. Believe me, it's not a good thing for the community. We buy less fuel, equipment, fertilizer, insurance etc. etc. etc. Many farm towns are all but dead because they can't support the churches, grocery stores, clothing stores, hardware stores etc. Wal-Mart hasn't helped, but mostly it's the lost of bodies that has hurt. When the school district is loosing kids you know people, especially the next generation just aren't staying here. But what's a body to do? Out here most of the ground we're being paid not to raise crops on is really bad ground. It should not have ever been pulled from grazeland in the first place. But there's not always been more food than people, so folks planted every acre they could. Farming used to be a good living. Back before Jimmy Carter that is. His choice to use food as a political weapon caused other countries to start growing a LOT of food. And our wonderful universities and government was all too happy to teach them how. So now we don't feed you AND the whole world. We feed you and part of the world. Farmers today compete against Australia, south america, China and a lot of other countries. Here we have more rules that everyone, not only the farmers but the suppliers of our chemicals and machinery too, have to follow so our costs are often driven much higher than our competitors. But we've got good ground and we know how to take care of it so we can probably keep up that way. Many of those other countries subsidize their farmers or tax our incoming crops though. Sometimes both. In those cases we certainly can not compete. If we can't compete we go out of business. If no one in the industry can compete the industry eventually shuts down. When's the last time you saw a wagon wheel plant? Or a blacksmith shop? It does happen. In those cases though, there's been something else, something better to take it's place. What are you going to do for food if you can't afford to grow it here? You can live without your computers if someone blocks the ships coming to our shores. You can survive without your TV, radio, mp3 player etc. Let me ask you, if there's another big war and you were on the other side, what's the first thing you'd do? Me, I'd shut down America's access to the rest of the world. Without America many economies would collapse, war materials couldn't get out, and nothing, including (especially???) food would get in. Governments know that as long as people are eating it's not likely that they will revolt. When they start to starve, when the children die, bullets start to fly. And NO government, even the mighty Romans, survives when the people are against them. The USA spends less per capita on food than almost any country in the world. If you allow too many farmers to go broke that won't be the case. You'll have to buy food instead of that new car. Here's where it gets really interesting. Did you know that the farmers can't sell their crops themselves in most cases? There are two or three exporters in the whole country. They sell the wheat AND set the prices that the farmers are paid. I can't go to, say, China, and say, Look, you're paying $5 for a bushel of wheat. I only get $3.75, how about if I sell to you at $4.50 and we both win? How would you like to have to sell your internet to EarthLink, AOL, or MSN? At whatever rate they decided you should get? That's much the way farming works. As for other crops it's not that simple. Believe it or not, farmers aren't stupid. They are often some of the sharpest most business savvy people you'll ever meet. When crop prices are LOWER than they were in the 1970's and have been since then almost ever year we weeded out the stupid ones a long time ago. IF they are in the right climate they already grow something else. IF they have the right amount of water (our latest well is 2240' deep, $500,000 to
[WISPA] [Fwd: Wireless Connectivity Company for Sale]
Figured this may be of interest to some of us who are interested in isp valuations, or at least the asking price. George ---BeginMessage--- Hello, An established, high-margin company has become available. The company enables hotels, apartment buildings and commercial buildings with wireless Internet connectivity in all rooms and public areas. The company also sets up automated, unmanned pay-per-use business centers for use by guests and travelers. Wired Internet connectivity can be provided where the economics of hard wiring are favorable. The company has executed projects with numerous high-profile clients such as... Radisson Hotels Quality Inns Comfort Inns Hilton Hotels Holiday Inns Cendant Hotels The sale includes all equipment, inventory, supplier and client relationships, the successful business model and even residual income from service contracts. The founders will work with new owner to assure smooth and complete transition. The company can be moved and operated from any convenient location. Projected 2006 revenue: ~ $500,000. Projected 2006 adjusted EBITDA: ~ $170,000. (including officer salary) Asking price: $600,000. (terms available for qualified buyer). For additional information, contact me. Regards, Alex Wilson Wilson-West Phone: (310) 312-6004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wilson-west.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only for use of the individual or entity named above. This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any of the information contained in or attached to it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission or by telephone at ((310) 312-6004 or at the address above, and destroy the original e-mail transmission and its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner. Thank you. ---End Message--- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introducesbilltoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
Marlon- I agree with you - Subsidies aren't just hand outs so some hayseed farmer can sit on the porch all day spittin redman at the dog. Its much more clever and insidious than that. Americans spend tax $$ on Agricultural Subsidies and get to eat crap, sometimes literally, for their investment. The subsidies really are about cheap raw materials for industrial food processors, feedlots, additive manufacturers etc. They get cheap grain, Americans get feed cheap food. And often there is not a whole lot of food in the food. Earl Butz and Richard Nixon started America down this slippery slope long before Carter showed up. They were the ones responsible for the dismantling of the grain bank loans in favor of direct cash payments to producers. Thanks for the insight from a farmer's perspective. chris Oh boy, this is gonna be GREAT (said in my best Animal House voice) Unlike some others here I'm gonna take this on. Please feel free to expand on my thoughts as needed. WISPA is a political organization guys. We work with the FCC, congress, state and local governments. Eventually we'll help other countries make things better for their people too. It's important that people here, especially the business owners, understand how things REALLY work. To get to that point we have to talk to each other about what happens on OUR watch. Otherwise all we learn is one sided and we can't form reality based opinions. Having said that, I agree with you 100% David. As far as you've gone.. We own thousands of acres. Not me, my parents though. We get a LOT of money for not growing wheat every year. Believe me, it's not a good thing for the community. We buy less fuel, equipment, fertilizer, insurance etc. etc. etc. Many farm towns are all but dead because they can't support the churches, grocery stores, clothing stores, hardware stores etc. Wal-Mart hasn't helped, but mostly it's the lost of bodies that has hurt. When the school district is loosing kids you know people, especially the next generation just aren't staying here. But what's a body to do? Out here most of the ground we're being paid not to raise crops on is really bad ground. It should not have ever been pulled from grazeland in the first place. But there's not always been more food than people, so folks planted every acre they could. Farming used to be a good living. Back before Jimmy Carter that is. His choice to use food as a political weapon caused other countries to start growing a LOT of food. And our wonderful universities and government was all too happy to teach them how. So now we don't feed you AND the whole world. We feed you and part of the world. Farmers today compete against Australia, south america, China and a lot of other countries. Here we have more rules that everyone, not only the farmers but the suppliers of our chemicals and machinery too, have to follow so our costs are often driven much higher than our competitors. But we've got good ground and we know how to take care of it so we can probably keep up that way. Many of those other countries subsidize their farmers or tax our incoming crops though. Sometimes both. In those cases we certainly can not compete. If we can't compete we go out of business. If no one in the industry can compete the industry eventually shuts down. When's the last time you saw a wagon wheel plant? Or a blacksmith shop? It does happen. In those cases though, there's been something else, something better to take it's place. What are you going to do for food if you can't afford to grow it here? You can live without your computers if someone blocks the ships coming to our shores. You can survive without your TV, radio, mp3 player etc. Let me ask you, if there's another big war and you were on the other side, what's the first thing you'd do? Me, I'd shut down America's access to the rest of the world. Without America many economies would collapse, war materials couldn't get out, and nothing, including (especially???) food would get in. Governments know that as long as people are eating it's not likely that they will revolt. When they start to starve, when the children die, bullets start to fly. And NO government, even the mighty Romans, survives when the people are against them. The USA spends less per capita on food than almost any country in the world. If you allow too many farmers to go broke that won't be the case. You'll have to buy food instead of that new car. Here's where it gets really interesting. Did you know that the farmers can't sell their crops themselves in most cases? There are two or three exporters in the whole country. They sell the wheat AND set the prices that the farmers are paid. I can't go to, say, China, and say, Look, you're paying $5 for a bushel of wheat. I only get $3.75, how about if I sell to you at $4.50 and we both win? How would you like to have to sell your internet to
Re: [WISPA] Taxation to support rural internet service (WAS:SenatorDurbin....)
I read your statement... I'm not disagreeing, particularly with the sentiment, just the reasoning. And, suggesting an alternative. - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taxation to support rural internet service (WAS:SenatorDurbin) On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Butch... It's all nice and great to think that a little bit of money can go a long ways to improving rural life... Perhaps you didn't read the whole message I posted. It sounds like you are trying to disagree by saying the same thing I did. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
