Re: [WISPA] Farewell and good luck to you all!!!

[Dustin Jurman]

Peace Brother,  your a classy dude and great technologist.  Enjoy your new 
passion.

DSJ

Dustin Jurman C.E.O
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 North Westshore BLVD suite 711
Tampa, Fl 33607
"Building Better Infrastructure"

On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:28 PM, "Dylan Bouterse"  wrote:

> It is with a heavy heart I send this email to you all to let you know I am 
> moving on from my current employment and even this industry to the next step 
> in my career. I've been a part of this group for 8.5 years and I've enjoyed 
> being a part of the discussions (usually more passive) and observing and 
> participating in growing the community we all love. A large majority of you 
> I've probably never met, but we may have brushed shoulders at a WISPA shows, 
> or others. I want to thank each and every one of you for your continued 
> participation in this industry and I hope it continues to grow by leaps and 
> bounds. You are all an inspiration and example of what a grass roots 
> organization can do when determined and led by fantastic people.
> 
> The next step in my career is taking me to Raleigh (from Central Florida) 
> into a pre-sales solutions engineer position for data center products. I'm 
> excited for this next BIG step in life as it will be a BIG change for me, not 
> only professionally but personally as well.
> 
> If any of you want to keep in touch, please email me directly before next 
> Friday and I'll be happy share my personal email address with you.
> 
> Again, thank you to all of you and good luck in your future endeavors!
> 
> Dylan
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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Radios as routers

[Dustin Jurman]

Hey Fred,  we did exactly that with our Hardee County Network, we use licensed 
links between MEF switches.  Rapid deployment with fiber forward design.

I think we have been through all configurations,  bridging, routing and layer2 
switching.  You could not hit the nail on the head any better here.

The advantages of this type of design include scaleability, performance and 
reduced opex.

DSJ

Dustin Jurman C.E.O
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 North Westshore BLVD suite 711
Tampa, Fl 33607
"Building Better Infrastructure"

On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:35 PM, "Fred Goldstein" 
mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com>> wrote:

At 10/11/2012 06:52 PM, SamT wrote:
Not sure I under stand the no-NAT, so every device on the other side of the CPE 
has it's own public IP?

There could be one NAT, at the access point.

My taste, which to be sure I haven't tested at scale in a wireless network (but 
plan to), is to follow what is becoming standard wireline practice and do 
switching, not bridging, at "layer 2".  Routing would then be lumped into one 
place, making it easier to manage.

The problem with small Linux-based systems (this includes both UBNT and MT) is 
that they don't tend to have switching documented or set up in the UI, even if 
it's possible.  Bridging is bad -- it was designed for orange hose Ethernet, 
and it passes broadcast traffic to everyone.  We invented this at DEC in the 
1980s and discovered how it doesn't scale too well -- we had a couple of 
thousand DECnet and IP nodes on a bridged LAN, and the background broadcast 
traffic level was 400 kbps.  This was a lot for systems to handle in 1991.  I 
was testing ISDN bridges and "discovered" how you can't just bridge that type 
of network across a 56k connection.  (I discovered the traffic when I first 
turned up the bridge.  I ended up isolating it behind a router, built from an 
old VAX.  At DEC, we built everything ouf of VAXen.)

Switching, though, is what Frame Relay and ATM do, and now Carrier Ethernet is 
the big thing for fiber.  It uses the VLAN tag to identify the virtual circuit; 
the MAC addresses are just passed along.  Since it's connection-oriented (via 
the tag), it can have QoS assigned.  I think it's theoretically possible to tag 
user ports, route on tags and set QoS on RouterOS, but it's not obvious how to 
do it all.  Switching doesn't pass broadcast traffic; it provides more 
isolation and privacy than plain routing.  Mesh routing then works at that 
layer, transparent to IP.  It'll be "interesting" to set up.


On 10/11/2012 4:53 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
We run MT, not UBNT, CPE, but it doesn't matter what brand it is.  We run them 
in as routers, but do not NAT.  Same benefits others mentioned for routing, 
just one fewer NAT.  Never have a problem with it this way and can't see any 
good reason to NAT there.

On 10/11/2012 3:46 PM, Arthur Stephens wrote:
We currently use Ubiquiti radios in bridge mode and assign a ip address to the 
customers router.
He have heard other wisp are using the Ubiquiti radio as a router.
Would like feed back why one would do this when it appears customers would be 
double natted when they hook up their routers?
Or does it not matter from the customer experience?

Thanks

--
Arthur Stephens
Senior Sales Technician
Ptera Wireless Inc.
PO Box 135
24001 E Mission Suite 50
Liberty Lake, WA 99019
509-927-7837
For technical support visit http://www.ptera.net/support
 -
"This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is 
intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed.
Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or 
opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not 
intended to represent those of the company."




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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
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Internal Virus Database is out of date.



--
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays Networking, LLC
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration



Mikrotik Advanced Certified

www.nwwnet.net<http://www.nwwnet.net>
(765) 855-1060
(765) 439-4253
(855) 231-6239




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 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ion

Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

[Dustin Jurman]

I don't know if things have changed but they were recently sued in Florida.

http://www.fiercevoip.com/story/magicjack-settles-florida-ag/2009-04-16

Dustin

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Profito
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

That's is what I remember from the list.  Once it was in, a 'normal'
subscriber couldn't get it out, and they, MJ, had a subscriber installed,
and "agreed to", OPEN Back Door to any computer it was installed on!   We
have a lot of subs with these, and I mention it to them, but they don't seem
to get it.  Scary stuff 

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
cprof...@cv-access.com 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:32 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

There is some icky stuff in the EULA and apparently there is no way to
remove it automatically...have to go to the registers to do it properly.

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:21 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

I played with it a while back.  Very good stuff, just needs number
portability and a little better support.  I know someone who spent nearly
two days to pay their bill...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 11:18 AM, George Rogato wrote:

> Who owns Magic Jack?
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
> > Summary:
> >
> > Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.
> >
> > *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you
> already
> > have and its own voicemail.
> >
> > Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by 
> > the economy.  Then the world.
> > *
> > *Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, 
> > however improbable, must be the truth."
> > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith  wrote:
> >
> >> George Rogato wrote:
> >>> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
> >> Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their 
> >> announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number 
> >> portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.
> >>
> >> Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.
> >>
> >> (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the 
> >> article instead of making everyone click.)
> >>
> >> David Smith
> >> MVN.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> --
> --
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> --
> --
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> --
> --
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> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
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>
>
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--

Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

[Dustin Jurman]

The Mobotix is the bomb.  We use them at tower sites, in our office and I
have a tricked out system at home as well.  DVR software is included and the
Camera's are truly edge devices.  We actually run both the DVR, FTP and
capture with ONSSI at the same time.  This allows us to have local consoles,
long term storage and backup at the datacenter.  I can't say enough good
things about Mobotix.  

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

I am using Mobotix for cameras. The DVR software is free. Or the cams  
can perform the DVR function. Hit me offlist and I can give you a link  
to 2 I just put up out of 22 for a small city.


ryan


On Jun 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, George Rogato wrote:

> Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?
>
> I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>


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Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?

[Dustin Jurman]

WISPA did have a group of people that were attending meetings and trying to
sway policy. The time schedule has just been published and hopefully rules
and definitions will be firmed up shortly. 

WISPA could start delivering a facts sheet,  Timeline and useful resources. 

WISPA should get vendors together to monetize the event as part of the
communications effort. 

Maybe the board should think about a short term position to do this where
someone makes some bucks managing this and the communications /
opportunities for WISPA and the Members.  

Daniel,  please don't start conversations with Charles is 100% right,  Some
of us are enjoying a nice hot cup of coffee and it could be dangerous to
ourselves and equipment so early in the morning  ;-)  

Dustin 




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:01 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?

Charles is right 100%, and he is being as proactive as any VAR (including DR
and ourselves... Charles did a WiNOG on this not to long ago) trying to
figure the mess out so you can get the money (hopefully you'll spend it with
us right!).  

Here is what I know (and I've done more research and had more conversations
than I think I cared to):

- No one knows where the money is going to go or who is going to get it.
Some people think the States are going to get all the money, others that
Fiber will get all of the money, Telco's will get it, only people that have
received RUS funding in the past will get it, etc.  No one has a clear idea
of where the money is going, so it's hard to say what anyone can do to help
you get the money except give you an idea of what the RUS process is like.

- Realistically, the only (and best) thing WISPA can do is provide a forum
for people to discuss what they are doing to get the money, and WISPA can
help lobby the government to get the money into our hands.  I wouldn't
expect WISPA to provide a "grant in a box" widget :-)

- Many people are arguing already that if you haven't already filed
paperwork, you're not going to get any money.  It's amazing how many people
have already put in RUS applications to get this money, before the rules on
who is going to get it has been defined!

- There are a 1,000 people now that think they are going to get a million
dollars from the Government to start a WISP... I'm afraid they are going to
crash and burn Metricom style.  So while an incumbent might be the better
choice to get the money, the packages newcomers are putting together are
pretty impressive.  But I digress... because...

- Personally, I'm going to be surprised if the WISP industry gets even 10%
of the money... the sad thing being we can do much more with it than the
people that probably will get it.

Anyways, I wouldn't expect any reseller/distributor/trade organization to
give you the secret sauce on how to get that money.  Sure we are all doing
research to try to help people get money, but it doesn't mean they will be
right (I've seen some pretty interesting ideas on who/how people are going
to get money... some that I've wanted to laugh at).  So I would start
looking at filling out some of the RUS paperwork, and gathering as much
information as you can.  In the long run, if you want the money, YOUR going
to have to go get it... everyone else can help though :-)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Charles Wu
>Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?
>
>Hi Scott,
>
>>What has WISPA came up with to help WISP's get in on the broadband
>stimulus package? Throw me some bait? As I promised before, my
>membership fees(after >tax season) are sitting here... give me something
>to bite. Not being an A**, but I belonged to one place(not WISPA), but
>didn't get much out of it.
>
>>I did receive an invitation from Double Radius to help me get in on
>this. Just wanting to know if WISPA got anything going on, before I jump
>on that >opportunity? One of my regular suppliers that I trust.
>
>>From someone who's successfully navigated this process in various
>iterations, the process of putting in an application for government
>funding (be it RUS/NTIA/etc) is something that's measured in inches of
>thickness of paper and months (or years) of labor -- at the last ISPCON,
>Donny Bell, a WISP out of Minnesota mentioned that he spent in excess of
>$250k in time / effort / manpower / legal fees for his first RUS loan
>application -- and was denied!
>
>Keep in mind too, if you take a look at the comments on the stimulus
>funding, there were thousands of comments (and many from people with
>deep pockets and plenty of lawyers and DC lobbying) -- the competition
>for this money will be, IMO, inc

Re: [WISPA] ptp400 5.8ghz bandwidth adjustment

[Dustin Jurman]

Yes,  you have an option through the setup wizard on the master side for
Link Symmetry   

Options are,  Symmetric Data Rate (1 to 1)  Asymmetric Data Rate (2 to 1)  

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Long
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:31 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] ptp400 5.8ghz bandwidth adjustment



 I have a ptp400, that is a full link and am able to get 19.80mb/s each way.
Is there a way to adjust throuput from the master to the slave, like there
is in an ap/sm setup? My goal would be to get it 25-30 down to the slave and
15-10 from slave to master. Thanks for any help on this.



Alan Long

Aerowire, LLC

687 North Dean Rd.

Auburn, AL 36830

Phone: 334-275-9998

www.aerowire.net






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[WISPA] Tower accident

[Dustin Jurman]

Our tower crews are allowed to pick and choose what they like for
Harness and Lanyards as long as it's approved by our safety manager.
They all choose the exofit harness by DBSALA with the seat.  I prefer
this one as well.  The new ones have a spring in the that makes the rear
ring stick up,  very nice.

http://tinyurl.com/75m25v

Dustin





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Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower

[Dustin Jurman]

Brian,

 

They knew way before.   How high are you going up?

 

Dustin 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower

 



Doug Ratcliffe wrote: 

So now that the entire internet now has figured out which tower I'm talking 
about (including local competition that may not have known where my tower 
broadcasts were located)... 

All the more reason to use the members list..



What kind of ethernet/POE shielding would allow 
me to run my switches/power packs/etc at the bottom of this tower based on 
1kW?
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Leon Zetekoff"   
To: "WISPA General List"   
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
 
 
  

WMFJ is 1 kw as I thought. Matter of fact I might have been at that
station evaluating it for a friends family in the 90s. It was one
station in Daytona.
 
Here's the link:
 
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wmfj

&x=15&y=6&sr=Y&s=C
 
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:


I am guessing WMFJ
 
- Original Message - From: "Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE"
  
To: "WISPA General List"   
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE up AM radio tower
 
 
  

* Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 1/3/2009 7:33 PM:


The tower is a 4-leg self supporting tower, it was built a long time
ago,
built from what I've heard in the mid 1900's...  The antennas for
the tower
are isolated from the tower, it appears that there are 3 vertical
antennas,
attached with copper tubing from the transmitter to each of the
antennas
(which are on isolated standoffs, top to bottom.  There is some kind of
matching transformer in the building under the tower.  The tower is
10kW,
1450 AM (good guess on the frequency!)..
 
  

I think 1450 is a CLASS IV (or what was a CLASS IV) freq and should be
1kW. What's the callsign and location?
 
leon


 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Lightning protection

[Dustin Jurman]

A combination of surge protection and proper grounding is the key.  We
utilize a multi-point ground tester and find a large portion of our sites
have poor grounds (less then 5 Ohms to earth) or some crack head stole the
buss bars and copper. (Very likely in FLA).  Testing has become part of our
semi-annual maintenance. We also utilize static dissipaters to reduce the
conditions for lightning to form around the site as well as surge
protectors.

As far as Transtectors, The large one for the canopy is very well designed
and works well.  We have replaced all of the ALPU-ORT (PTP Transtector
versions) with the new Motorola units.  They stand up better, are made for
hanging on towers and don't fill with water after baking in the sun for a
few years.

Dustin  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John McDowell
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lightning protection

We are mostly Canopy and Redline AN80 around here. We have had great luck
with the transtector ALPU-POE for Canopy and have had great luck with the
units that are recommended by redline for AN80. We're actually trying on a
couple of sites a POE with Surge from Hyperlinktech.

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> I'd like to inquiry this mailing list on what other WISPs use as far as
> lightning protection.  We've had a bad spring every other year with
> something going bad.  This recent past spring two towers were hit causing
> massive outages and a really bad day.
>
> We have a stock of these things which is why this was brought up:
>
>
http://shop.wirelessguys.com/s.nl;jsessionid=0a0108421f43ab6dee3813784f588a6
a9ab61e2443c4.e3eTaxePaNqNe34Pa38Ta38NaNj0?it=A&id=2681
>
> Usually for our Trangos and MTs we use the PacWireless esp-100-poe
> http://www.pacwireless.com/products/ESP-100-POE_datasheet.pdf
>
> The Transtector units have been on the shelf for a while, they came from
an
> old storage unit from another company.  With the price tag I wondered if
> they didn't do anything extra.  I opened them up and it looks like nothing
> more then resistors and a patch pannel on a piece of PCB.
>
> The units that we lost last spring were RB532s with the esp-100-poe and
two
> ODUs for Redline AN50s (not the IDU, though!)  Hopefully someone can
> suggest
> a better way to defend us from those acts of god =)
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
>
>


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-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee),
you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any
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[WISPA] FW: Kernmantle Rope

[Dustin Jurman]

But you need to go with what your safety device states to ward off any
liability. 

Certified slings usually carries a nice variety of rope up to 2000 feet and
safety devices.   

http://www.certifiedslings.com/home.php4

Be Safe! 

Dustin 



Dustin Jurman
CEO
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 North Westshore Blvd - Suite 711
Tampa, Fl 33607
813-232-4887
dus...@rseng.net
"Building Better Infrastructure"


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John McDowell
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Kernmantle Rope

What is the best lifeline rescue rope?

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 9:31 AM, CHUCK PROFITO
wrote:

> Are you mountain climbing or just hauling a tool bag up a tower? If it's
> the
> latter, you are on the right list , just shopping at the wrong place,
maybe
> harbor freight. 'bout $10 per 100'. Again, not human bouncing, just tool
> bag
> bouncing.
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> cprof...@cv-access.com
> Providing High Speed Broadband
> to Rural Central California
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:08 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Kernmantle Rope
>
> Looking for 1200' of kernmantle rope.  I found a spool here (sorry for the
> long URL, TinyURL doesn't work for this link) -
>
>
>
https://www.nettechdi.com/eserv/eclipse.ecl?PROCID=WEBDISP.WOEB.MAIN&ID~1=10
>
>
7&ID~2=864&ID~3=865&CLEV=5&PLEV=1&QLEV=1&PN=12764&ITEM.NO=8&PN.CT=21&TRACKNO
>
=J2537830143&BANNERID=<https://www.nettechdi.com/eserv/eclipse.ecl?PROCID=WE
BDISP.WOEB.MAIN&ID~1=107&ID~2=864&ID~3=865&CLEV=5&PLEV=1&QLEV=1&PN=12764&ITE
M.NO=8&PN.CT=21&TRACKNO=J2537830143&BANNERID=>
>
> Price seems reasonable at $680/1200' thought I'd ask if anyone has a
better
> source.  Thanks!
>
> `S
>
>
>
>

> 
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-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee),
you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any
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Re: [WISPA] Vecima 3.65

[Dustin Jurman]

They both have Ethernet ports! 

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vecima 3.65

I was told that Redlines's WiMax solution would be interoperable - but
that was a salesmen speaking.

On 12/14/08, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> Well its uses Wimax MAC, but ists not Wimax Forum Certified so the
> manufactures don't have to comply with interoperability
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of George Rogato
> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vecima 3.65
>
> So this stuff then is not really WiMAX, it;s just another proprietary
> system, right?
>
> George
>
> Blair Davis wrote:
>> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>> Don't I remember that there was a lot of hype about interoperability?
>>>
>>> That's why many of us still stick to the old a/b/g stuff.   We hate
> the idea
>>> of getting orphaned.
>>>
>>
>> Right on!  Some of us HAVE been orphaned!
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>> --
>>
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>
>
> 
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-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer




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[WISPA] Service Inquiry

[Dustin Jurman]

Anyone Service METAIRIE LA,

 

Please send me an email off list.

 

Dustin 

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] motorola bpl

[Dustin Jurman]

Yes I have,  Even have one installed in my house.  Long Story. What is your
question?

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of RC
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:16 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] motorola bpl

Anyone have any success using Motorola BPL system?




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[WISPA] Anyone service this area

[Dustin Jurman]

Burnt Pine Plantation

1161 Blackwell Road

Newborn, GA 30056  

 

 




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[WISPA] Service in LA

[Dustin Jurman]

Looking for service in LA,  near the home depot center.  If you service this
area please email me.

 

Dustin Jurman

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 




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[WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps

[Dustin Jurman]

Processor speed is only part of the answer to the RISC, CISC battle and this
type of radio design.  Things flow in a logical operation and waiting occurs
on the systems buses in the PC based design.  

Processor
Cache
Memory bus
Memory
Systems bus
Ect..

Designs in the different buses or systems architectures, Bus mastering
controllers, custom ASICs, as well as memory refresh strategy and ect.. all
produce the end result.  As you move down the list or through the system,
each subsystem runs slower and slower, if you don't have custom ASIC's and
have to come back to the proc for filtering and stuff like that, then you
continue to tie the bus up.  Most vendors provide performance charts based
on minimum configuration but as you start adding thing like NAT, IP Filters
and stuff like this you put more pressure on the proc and ultimately more
pressure on the bus adding wait states, interrupt requests, ect, ect.  


Dustin   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bo Ring
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps

> Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it 
> has the slowest processor in MHZ?
>
> Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series 
> at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report.
>
> Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets 
> so much better speed at slower Mhz?

While I can not speak of it in use between these two routers, there is a
reason why it was logical to move to RISC. They are more efficient chips and
tend to be even more so when they are used in specific environments. If
anyone is a Mac head from way back, you might remember the raw numbers
between the 40MHz 68030 and the 25MHz PowerPC when Apple first moved to
them.






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Re: [WISPA] unlic wimax on 3.65

[Dustin Jurman]

A while back Jack Unger explained how to get your product and antenna
through FCC licensing (Certified System).  If you are doing this and you
have UBNT radio's then I believe he said that the costs of certification
could be less because you would only have to do a mini certification.  I
also believe he suggested that he could assist with the process for a fee.
If you need something right away then I would suggest that you consider
doing something like this yourself,  asking WISPA for some help, or possibly
getting with other WISPA members in need.  

Current WIMAX gear is limited to 7.5 mhz channels at max so you're only
going to produce a certain amount of bandwidth (18 meg at the port).
UBNT cards can run at 20mhz and if you can get them tested they can run
closer to 29.00 real world bandwidth. (Tested at the port in the lab on
UBNT cards).

If I'm wrong about that Jack can slap me for mis-understanding a post.


Dustin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rogelio
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] unlic wimax on 3.65

Someone I know is looking for unlicensed wimax on 3.65 GHz.

I told him I didn't know if that was available (but hadn't looked).

Does anyone else have any comments or experience on this?




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Re: [WISPA] Dickson tn

[Dustin Jurman]

<>

MRV has been a solid product for short shots.  I haven't had the cleaning
and reaiming problem that some have claimed.  It's really a matter of using
the right mounts and learning how to aim these things.  Like anything else
you do a path calc and have a number to shoot for.  The MRV's have an
digital reading in the back telling you how hot you are, other units have a
series of LEDS.  The MRV is one of the best built units around and I like
the POE unit to ease installation VS some of the other systems available.  

I have had nothing but trouble out of LightPoint and would encourage folks
to use Plantree or MRV.  

Plain tree is interesting because of the fact that are LED based.   

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dickson tn

I wish I was a poor tower owner

:-)

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:23:32 
To:"WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dickson tn


I do have a bite, so when looking for a WISP, I
go to the WISPA General list.

I am not a WISP, just a poor tower owner.

I talked with a guy who was there in
Dickson a while back, and can't find his
contact info - but thought I met him from this
list.

Thanks all for the help.

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dickson tn


> He is a WISP. I think he is asking if any other WISP service that error,
> because he may have a bite? Or, maybe if no one is servicing it, he will?
> Or, who knows.
>
> I service some counties in TN, but not Dickson. I do not know of any WISP 
> in
> that area, but I am about 125 miles away from there.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rogelio
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:55 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dickson tn
>
>
> Blake Bowers wrote:
>> Who is providing service in Dickson?
>
> What type of service?
>
> Wireless internet?
>
>
>

> 
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>
>
> Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth.
> Check out www.info-ed.com for information.
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] multiple gateway question in mesh scenario

[Dustin Jurman]

If you don't need roaming capability treat each one as it's own network or
you could create one centralized distribution facility. 

Dustin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rogelio
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] multiple gateway question in mesh scenario

What do others here do in situations where a mesh has multiple gateways?

Say you have a large mesh and each "egrees" is a satellite uplink to a 
different ISP provider.

Would you just assign multiple gateways on the DHCP server?

Or would you use something like RADIUS to assign different network 
parameters to different users?




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RE: [WISPA] Fw: Update on T1 Mobile Wireless Service

[Dustin Jurman]

Had a group down here in Sarasota making similar claims.  All BS. You can
put lipstick on a turd and it's still a turd.  People want to believe,  they
were in a small town north of here and convinced about 10 people to write
them each 25,000 checks.  

The next day one of our old employees got word of this,  got everyone
together that had given them money and got their checks back under the
agreement that they would give them the money if they would meet with us and
we felt like they had some legs.

You know the rest of the story.  Never showed up, never called.. But all of
these guys got their money back.

Dustin Jurman

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jory Privett
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 11:50 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: Update on T1 Mobile Wireless Service

HiHas anyone heard of these guys?   They keep calling me wanting me to sign
up to resell their service saying that if I don't there new technoligy will
put me out of business.  So far they claim 1.5M NLOS at 30 miles.  They say
it will cut through trees up to 16 to 20 miles in mountain terain.   And
they are selling T1s for $19.95 and T3s for $70-$80 with no setup,
installation, or equipment costs..  And I get a whole $3 for for each
customer I sign up.  They also claim to be able to sell T2 and T3 service
also.   They claim to have 3 licenesed frequencies but will not disclose
them.  

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.  Lots of marketing fluff and no facts.

Jory Privett
WCCS


- Original Message - 
From: Jack Sample / Namia Corporation 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Update on T1 Mobile Wireless Service



  Hi Jory,
Tuesday, July 31, 2007

  Hopefully you haven't forgotten me since a lot of water has passed
under the bridge since I last communicated with you regarding the T-1 to T-3
level mobile wireless Internet service that is soon to be launched on the
world. 

  Well, you may have thought that we went away but it was only a
temporary delay.  First of all I want to apologize to you for the early
notification that turned out to be a false summit.  We had felt that launch
was eminent when we sent out the cards late last year. The setback was only
temporary though and we are finally emerging from the quiet time and able to
share what is going on with everyone.

  I have included the last 7 months of short notes from ItsYourNet CEO
Ken Stewart to catch you up on where are are and what can be expected in the
next few months.  I don't have any information other than what comes out in
these news briefs so just stay tuned for further developments.

  January 4:  From ItsYourNet CEO Ken Stewart...

  The questions are still coming in about the Wireless Internet project
and Stock in the Corporation since I released the last newsletter announcing
the orders we are under with the "Quiet Time" on Thursday, December 22,
2006.

  So...
  Let me say this again...
  "We are under strict orders to not say anything further about the
Wireless project until authorized to do so."

  And as a result, these questions need to stop coming in to our support
channels - Thank you!

  Furthermore, with a $13-Billion investor, no Seed or Preferred Stock
needs to be offered and no other investment capital needs to be sought, so
sale of Stock is not required to raise the money needed to launch the
project.

  What you do and will receive as an Affiliate with ItsYourNet is
notification of the Stock being made available to the public before you can
learn about it going live anywhere else.

  We will let you know when the Stock is live for public purchase even
before your Broker calls you to recommend buying it, but that is all we can
do; ItsYourNet does not own the Wireless Company, and even I personally have
no way to obtain Stock before it is available publicly.


  April 26:  from ItsYourNet CEO, Ken Stewart...

  The Wireless Corporation CEO, Mr. Gary Brown, met with us here at
ItsYourNet's office last Tuesday and shared some wonderful new developments
that we've been authorized to pass on to you.

  The latest on the CPU / chip development is that there are now just
two (2) chip manufacturers remaining in the bidding process for the mass
production of the chip required to run the Wireless systems.

  Although we're not yet authorized to disclose the name of these two
manufacturers, we expect by the next Newsletter release on May 10, 2007 that
we should be able to provide a solid time-frame for the prototype chips to
be created, and, thus project a solid time-frame for the mountainous terrain
testing.

  Further developments and news Gary offered is that the Wireless
services are going to be going global much faster than originally planned!
Due to recent business connections made, shortly after the North American

RE: [WISPA] Industry failings

[Dustin Jurman]

Well I guess we all learned something different from Winstar.  I can think
of a bunch of other things, I surely have never thought that a 10 year ROI
was a valuable lesson to be learned from them when they clearly made more
grave mistakes.

As far as American Tower is concerned, Fantastic! To have a tower company in
your back pocket, we'd all kill for that one. Funny thing is I haven't seen
them on very many American sites, but I have seen them on everyone else's.


Doesn't matter where I am at, I'm always looking up and counting equipment
hanging in the air. I've seen a lot of good and a lot of bad.  I also make
it a point to speak with everyone going in and out of tower sites and the
local groups that support them.  Like I said, I run into these guys quite a
bit at a lot of different sites.

Time will tell how they monetize the network. 

I'm just pointing out that a lot of folks in this industry have a very
different viewpoint on fibertower, and they can do a lot of good for
legitimizing the industry which I believe was the original intent.  


Dustin  



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Industry failings

Dustin Jurman wrote:
> Being an ISP you understand build out costs, some put a lot more into a
site
> than others. We'd probably do things a little differently, maybe not. Here
> is what I do know.
>
>   
WinStar's plan assumed a 10 year ROI on a site. In hindsight that seems 
rather foolish now, but back then they convinced people it made sense.
> 2. They seem to have very good dealings with all of the tower companies
> which gets them bulk pricing, reduced costs, etc..  
>   
American Tower is a major shareholder, so this should be expected.
> 6. Look how many sites they have built in a year.  It's sick...
>   
Look how few they have monetized. It's sick...
> 7. We all know that once you build a site it takes some time to monetize
> them, they seem a little behind but maybe not.  
>   
Very behind!
> 8. Wall street will keep feeding them as long as they are executing, and
> they are doing a good job of that.
>   
Who says they are executing? Good installs, good equipment, lots of 
sites built, and happy customers are all important things, but none of 
them mean they are executing well. They actually need to execute against 
their business plan, which includes things like cash flow and 
profitability. Both currently stink.

-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] Industry failings

[Dustin Jurman]

They absolutely will.

Being an ISP you understand build out costs, some put a lot more into a site
than others. We'd probably do things a little differently, maybe not. Here
is what I do know.

1. They spare no expense at building sites, sites are solid. We share many
sites with Fiber Tower.  Very nicely done.  
2. They seem to have very good dealings with all of the tower companies
which gets them bulk pricing, reduced costs, etc..  
3. I think if we all haven't learned the lessons from Winstar then we would
be foolish. Fiber tower does have a huge market and there is very little
competition.  
4. You know the LEC actually put someone beneath ISP's, the cell phone
carriers so when their T1 blows out at a tower, ISP's are actually serviced
before the cell carrier. 
5. The architecture is very nice, very good equipment.
6. Look how many sites they have built in a year.  It's sick...
7. We all know that once you build a site it takes some time to monetize
them, they seem a little behind but maybe not.  
8. Wall street will keep feeding them as long as they are executing, and
they are doing a good job of that.


Dustin Jurman 





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blake Bowers
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 4:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Industry failings

Wow.

Do you have any factual basis for those statements,
or are you just hoping?  Does customers that
send lots of jobs and money translate in any way
to a net loss of 14.5 million in the third quarter of
2006, as opposed to a 4.9 million dollar loss in
same quarter 2005?

It is kind of scary when a company in that shape
sees their general and admin costs go up 354%
in that period, when the actual costs of providing
that service go up only around 105%.

Now, with that said, it is a good concept.  The only
issue is whether or not Wall Street will let them
hang around burning money until they start showing
a profit.




- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dustin Jurman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Industry failings


> Fiber Tower is rocking the house.  They are very focused and have a core
> nitch of customers that not only love their service but are willing to 
> send
> lots of jobs and money to them.  Oh.. And they are executing like white on
> rice.
>
> Dustin Jurman
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter R.
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 1:54 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Industry failings
>
> The one thing that has been the failure of SO many companies including
> NextLink, Yipes, et al - NOT ENOUGH SALES.  Folks in the greater ISP
> industry tend to focus much of their attention on the technology.
> Building, tinkering, tweaking.  Equally, your focus has to be on sales &
> marketing.
>
> It's the end of another year
> (http://radinfo.blogspot.com/2006/12/eoy-part-ii.html), take time to
> make goals for the new year - and to create a sales plan for your
> company and a marketing plan.  (Even if you don't follow it, at least
> you have taken the time to think about it).
>
> Marketing for WISP's:
> http://www.isp-planet.com/marketing/2006/ispcon_wireless_marketing.html
>
> Here's a couple of things about low hanging fruit: easy to pick - by you
> or anyone else; and if not picked, it gets rotten and falls off the tree.
>
> To your success,
>
> Peter Radizeski
> RAD-INFO, Inc.
> Marketing IDEA guy.com
> (813) 963-5884
>
> I take the technology and help you turn it into revenue.
>
>
> Matt Liotta wrote:
>
>> One the biggest factors holding our industry back is a lack of success
>> on the part of the big poster children. People look at the past
>> failures of WinStar and Teligent and wonder if new entrants can
>> succeed. Many investors are watching FiberTower and NextLink to see if
>> these new poster children can prove the business model.
>>
>> It doesn't really matter that neither FiberTower or NextLink are
>> representative of our industry. What matters is they are both publicly
>> traded fixed wireless companies. This means that all fixed wireless
>> companies are viewed through the lens of these publicly traded
>> companies since they are the only ones with enough information for
>> people to draw conclusions on.
>>
>> If you look at FiberTower's and NextLink's latest numbers you should
>> be very worried. NextLink is failing and I predict will be out of
>> business in the not too distant future. FiberTower is much better off
>> than NextLink

RE: [WISPA] Industry failings

[Dustin Jurman]

Matt can you send some links for those sources.

Dustin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 12:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Industry failings

One the biggest factors holding our industry back is a lack of success 
on the part of the big poster children. People look at the past failures 
of WinStar and Teligent and wonder if new entrants can succeed. Many 
investors are watching FiberTower and NextLink to see if these new 
poster children can prove the business model.

It doesn't really matter that neither FiberTower or NextLink are 
representative of our industry. What matters is they are both publicly 
traded fixed wireless companies. This means that all fixed wireless 
companies are viewed through the lens of these publicly traded companies 
since they are the only ones with enough information for people to draw 
conclusions on.

If you look at FiberTower's and NextLink's latest numbers you should be 
very worried. NextLink is failing and I predict will be out of business 
in the not too distant future. FiberTower is much better off than 
NextLink, but they are burning cash at an impressive rate. One can 
easily predict them running out of cash sometime next year if things 
follow a similar trend.

Some of us on this list do more revenue than NextLink, but I doubt that 
will matter when they go under. Our valuations will decline in lock step 
to any failures by these two companies.

-Matt
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RE: [WISPA] Industry failings

[Dustin Jurman]

Fiber Tower is rocking the house.  They are very focused and have a core
nitch of customers that not only love their service but are willing to send
lots of jobs and money to them.  Oh.. And they are executing like white on
rice. 

Dustin Jurman

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 1:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Industry failings

The one thing that has been the failure of SO many companies including 
NextLink, Yipes, et al - NOT ENOUGH SALES.  Folks in the greater ISP 
industry tend to focus much of their attention on the technology. 
Building, tinkering, tweaking.  Equally, your focus has to be on sales & 
marketing. 

It's the end of another year  
(http://radinfo.blogspot.com/2006/12/eoy-part-ii.html), take time to 
make goals for the new year - and to create a sales plan for your 
company and a marketing plan.  (Even if you don't follow it, at least 
you have taken the time to think about it).

Marketing for WISP's:   
http://www.isp-planet.com/marketing/2006/ispcon_wireless_marketing.html

Here's a couple of things about low hanging fruit: easy to pick - by you 
or anyone else; and if not picked, it gets rotten and falls off the tree.

To your success,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc.
Marketing IDEA guy.com
(813) 963-5884

I take the technology and help you turn it into revenue.


Matt Liotta wrote:

> One the biggest factors holding our industry back is a lack of success 
> on the part of the big poster children. People look at the past 
> failures of WinStar and Teligent and wonder if new entrants can 
> succeed. Many investors are watching FiberTower and NextLink to see if 
> these new poster children can prove the business model.
>
> It doesn't really matter that neither FiberTower or NextLink are 
> representative of our industry. What matters is they are both publicly 
> traded fixed wireless companies. This means that all fixed wireless 
> companies are viewed through the lens of these publicly traded 
> companies since they are the only ones with enough information for 
> people to draw conclusions on.
>
> If you look at FiberTower's and NextLink's latest numbers you should 
> be very worried. NextLink is failing and I predict will be out of 
> business in the not too distant future. FiberTower is much better off 
> than NextLink, but they are burning cash at an impressive rate. One 
> can easily predict them running out of cash sometime next year if 
> things follow a similar trend.
>
> Some of us on this list do more revenue than NextLink, but I doubt 
> that will matter when they go under. Our valuations will decline in 
> lock step to any failures by these two companies.
>
> -Matt



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RE: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference

[Dustin Jurman]

Hey Marlon, Here is my anritsu list.

Love it, with all the upgrades I can't remember the cost but it was in the
same ballpark.  

1.  3.0-6 gig attachment is a little annoying because you have to take it on
and off.  
2. Battery life is Ok, like the care charger, Big brick to lug around on the
AC cord.
3. Use in sunlight is great, Buttons work really well and placed in good
position.  Don't like the interface to label saved sweeps. Kind of like
using your cell phone to txt someone.  Big pain in the ass.  
4. Resolution is really good
5. It's very flexible as far as software options. 
6. support is very good.  I had lots of questions when we got our first one.
They answered them all and did some guiding over the phone.
7. Yearly recalibration is recommended.  
8. Durable and light weight. Still need a backpact to carry all of your
antenna's around. 
9. I've seen better PC software on other units but it's not too bad. Some of
the PC based stuff seems better for generic long term stuff but not high
resolution scans.  

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference

Hiya Dustin,

I have an Advantest.  9k to 8g.  Very nice.

When I get another one I'm gonna look for a couple of things.

I like the color lcd display, but it needs to be brighter for use in the 
sun.

I'd get one that's got fewer buttons on it.  I don't need to decode cell 
phone calls.

Portable with battery backup would be cool.

I LOVE the Anritsu units that EC carries.  Too bad that the small ones need 
the frequency converters for our use.

I also need to get some more of the super flexible 10' lmr 400 type cable. 
My last one didn't make it back from the rental

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Dustin Jurman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference


> Hey Marlon,
>
> This may be a great opportunity for us to help some folks talk about
> spectrum analyzers here.  What are you using today?  I'm using the anritsu
> spectrum master.  Expensive but I've been very happy with it.  Maybe we
> should get some bullet points together.
>
> Dustin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference
>
> I use a spectrum analyzer.  It's for rent too :-).
>
> EC also has a very nice portable unit (much easier to use) that's 
> available
> for rent.  Or they have them for sale if you're looking for something to
> keep.
>
> I used to use some tools from teletronics but the new version isn't nearly
> as good.  If you just need something that'll give you a ballpark reading
> they do work better than nothing.
>
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Ireton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:33 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference
>
>
>>
>>
>> In our neck of the woods we have some areas where 802.11 systems simply 
>> do
>
>> not function, period (and this is across a range of frequency bands and
>> equipment manufacturers). And sometimes, in some limited cases, we will
>> have a sub who appears to be experiencing interference that is much 
>> louder
>
>> than our rssi at the sub (say they have a -63, but they still can't
>> reliably hear the ap well enough for communication) and there's nothing
>> really obvious in the area we can see. We know it's radio interference
>> because we can play the channel flipping game, but we'd like to be better
>> than that and actually diagnose the problem and identify the source and
>> direction of the transmitter creating the problem, so that we can plan
>> better and actually provide a resolution t

RE: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference

[Dustin Jurman]

Hey Marlon,

This may be a great opportunity for us to help some folks talk about
spectrum analyzers here.  What are you using today?  I'm using the anritsu
spectrum master.  Expensive but I've been very happy with it.  Maybe we
should get some bullet points together.  

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference

I use a spectrum analyzer.  It's for rent too :-).

EC also has a very nice portable unit (much easier to use) that's available 
for rent.  Or they have them for sale if you're looking for something to 
keep.

I used to use some tools from teletronics but the new version isn't nearly 
as good.  If you just need something that'll give you a ballpark reading 
they do work better than nothing.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Ireton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference


>
>
> In our neck of the woods we have some areas where 802.11 systems simply do

> not function, period (and this is across a range of frequency bands and 
> equipment manufacturers). And sometimes, in some limited cases, we will 
> have a sub who appears to be experiencing interference that is much louder

> than our rssi at the sub (say they have a -63, but they still can't 
> reliably hear the ap well enough for communication) and there's nothing 
> really obvious in the area we can see. We know it's radio interference 
> because we can play the channel flipping game, but we'd like to be better 
> than that and actually diagnose the problem and identify the source and 
> direction of the transmitter creating the problem, so that we can plan 
> better and actually provide a resolution that will last for that sub.
>
> We know about spectrum analysis and such and actually own a handy unit 
> (the Spectran) but it doesn't give real time data useful for direction 
> finding. What are some of the other tools (hand held or truck mounted, not

> built-in firmware features) you folks use for this? If we had a tool that 
> would just give us knowledge about the non-household applications present 
> in these areas (where non-household is anything with a larger gain antenna

> and/or power output than a cordless phone or wireless access point), we 
> could even go so far as to try and coordinate with those applications for 
> the betterment of everyone. But just waking up one morning and learning a 
> long time customer now has an Interference problem you have no way to 
> resolve other than by terminating the business relationship, just really 
> sucks ass in my opinion. And when you run out of tricks like new antennas,

> equipment, alignments and such, that's exactly what you're left with.
>
>
>
> Mike-
>
>
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>
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RE: Motorola membership (Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)

[Dustin Jurman]

Don,  you talking about the AZ
event?  

 

DSJ

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Renner
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006
10:58 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: Motorola membership
(Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)



 

I will be in meetings with Motorola next
week.  Will see if can get done. 

 

What level did Alvarion commit to? 
Might help get them to make bigger outlay.

 

Don Renner

NetsurfUSA, Inc.

812-936-4514

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006
8:44 AM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: Motorola membership
(Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)



 

I’m not sure whether they have
yet.  I think they were last year but I don’t recall right now. 
Anyone who is a valuable Motorola customer want to take this on?  

 



Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless,
Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006
9:16 AM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Motorola membership (Re:
[WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon)



 

On 9/28/06, Rick Harnish
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:









If we can get Motorola to become a WISPA vendor member, we
will gladly start a list here without those restrictions.  









How has Motorola been approached?

Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 






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RE: [WISPA] BridgeWave Empowers One Ring to Rule Atlanta's Skies

[Dustin Jurman]

Nice going Matt!!!

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] BridgeWave Empowers One Ring to Rule Atlanta's Skies

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060926/20060926005421.html?.v=1
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RE: [WISPA] Not me, no way!

[Dustin Jurman]

I remember the same thing about the movie the net.  I was so pissed off
when they had Ip addresses in the 300's I can't even look at Sandra today
without thinking poser! 

Then the movie firewall came out and Harrison Ford goes into a cisco pix
firewall and puts such a lame access list in that stops a hacker. I almost
died.  Bye Bye Indiana 

I spent some time over at a forensic lab and asked them about CSI they had a
similar reaction. 

You just can't take this stuff seriously because it happens in every
environment.  All the flaws in this and it still gets you when he looks down
and you see the birds flying below.  

I enjoyed it, and I'll be having a coke and a smile.

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Bushard, Jr
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:17 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Not me, no way!

I realize it's a commercial and all; but seriously

There appears to be a Ladder inside the tower, just like the 1,000 footers
up here. I would surely not think they would try to climb the face of a
tower like that.

Second, a tower like that SWAYS big time that high up, with a good breeze I
can watch the 1,100' tower sway with binoculars. During a storm, if it's
light enough out, you can see it with the naked eye.

The older fellow did not have any shock absorbing lanyards with, much less
hooked off above him.

However I would have liked to saw what happens to that coke bottle if it hit
he ground.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blake Bowers
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Not me, no way!

Are you sure you are looking at the same climber?

But anyways, to answer your question, about what
their job is - its to act in a commercial!



- Original Message - 
From: "fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Not me, no way!


> Some bad editing (i mean movie magic)... how did he get from being
> hooked around a post to the middle of the cross members ;)
>
> i think it is cool though! except what exactly is their job? It looks
> like there's a marker light on the opposite top piece but not the one
> they're on.
>
> have fun.
>
> On 8/28/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> http://www.pockethercules.com/broadcast_detail16.html
>>
>> Marlon
>> (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
>> 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
>> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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RE: [WISPA] antenna question

[Dustin Jurman]

I've seen two dish elements go bad in the last couple of years. 

Dustin Jurman
Rapid Systems 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Brownson
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:56 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] antenna question

Having been in the wireless business for 30 years I've seen a bunch.  
And antennas can fail.  There are a multitude of components that can 
break.  In order of failure points we generally look to cable and 
connectors first, then active components like the radio and antennas 
last.  In the radio business everyone has a power meter to test these 
sorts of things.  In about 5 minutes you can determine if it's the cable 
or antenna with the proper instrument.  Unfortunately most in this 
industry are not aware of using power meters.  We sell one from Praxym 
that's just super cool and easy, but it's $1295.  However that may be a 
lot cheaper than the cost of the outage and tower climbers and time 
guessing what's wrong.  Or perhaps not?  I have also seen one bad cable 
replaced with another.

Mike B

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I have a Waverider ccu that stopped accepting associations from cpe.
Swapped
>ccu, bypassed filter, replaced cabling,  everyting but the antenna.  All
the
>spec ans stay flat.  My guys on the tower are pointing to the antenna, 2
yr. old
>til-tek sector as the failure point.  Ive never had an antenna go bad.  Any
one
>else had a similar experience?
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>  
>

-- 
Mike Brownson
Electro-comm Distributing
5015 Paris St
Denver, CO 80239
www.electro-comm.com
(303) 371-8182 x112,   (800) 525-0173

Your 24x7 support staff is at www.ShopECBIZ.com
Interested in Metro WiFi? We have solutions
Coming soon from Tranzeo, 900MHz PtMP
 

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RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Dustin Jurman]

Tom,

You have a lot of good points, but so does Charles and others, Why don't you
petition WISPA and some of the other ISP organization to sponsor a Net
Neutrality bakeoff. You can have views from the service provider aspects.  

What needs and will come out of it in the end will be the discussion of how
complex this issue is.  Then Steam it so people can watch get educated on
their own time.  (The ISP organization can brand the daylights out of it for
their contributions). 

Dustin






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net
neutrality

I understood Charles post regarding net neutrality, that you summarized also

very clearly.
My point is that Net Neutrality conflicts with other laws and regulations as

well.
So voting for some thing for one reason, could also mean voting against it 
for another.

For a strong Net NEtrality act, you'd aahve to allow FON, but for other 
leegal matters, you'd have to deny FON.  So it becomes a compflict of which 
issue is more important to protect? Whcih has precidence?

Thats what Congress and ISPs have to decide. Its not a right ro wrong 
answer. Its what answer has more (or more important) rights than wrongs?

I think Home Land Security/Law inforcement/ Privacy advocates, and Net 
Neutrality experets really need to be ALL working on the Net neutrality 
issue together, because its all intertwined.  What I see happening is a 
bunch of conflicting regulations being passed, with out rtealizing it when 
getting voted on.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net 
neutrality


>I think what Charles is getting at is, is it legal for an ISP to place the 
>'no open AP' or 'no sharing your connection' restriction on your service? 
>I have heard some people arguing the case that NN is "I'm paying for my 
>bandwidth so I can do what I want to with it".
>
>
>Sam Tetherow
>Sandhills Wireless
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
>> If it was, then it would be illegal to block hackers and criminals from 
>> using your network as well.
>> As FON clearly has no concern for Acceptable Use Policiies, therefore 
>> illegal activity, and AUPs are clearly allowable and enforcable 
>> contracts.
>>  Strategically its a great time for FON to release their venture, to test

>> the rules, the public, and ISPs.
>>  Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Charles Wu 
>> *To:* 'WISPA General List' 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com  - a threat
>> to us all? - back to net neutrality
>>
>> out of curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral
>> people) -- would blocking something like FON constitute a
>> violation of net neutrality?
>>  -Charles
>>
>> ---
>> CWLab
>> Technology Architects
>> http://www.cwlab.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:41 AM
>> *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
>> *Subject:* [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all?
>>
>>  Anyone seen FON ?   This is insane.
>>  Anyone test one yet ?   I want to know what network their
>> hotspot runs back to, so I can block it
>>  Can someone that might have one throw a sniffer against it ?
>>
>>

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>> !DSPAM:16,44a2c5c4194921117628507!
>
>
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RE: Wierd ... was [WISPA] 3650 equipment

[Dustin Jurman]

Unfortunately I know that song.

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Watson
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:49 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: Wierd ... was [WISPA] 3650 equipment

Lets do the Time Warp Again!

Its just a jump to the left

-Michael


Gino A. Villarini wrote:
> I ogt them too...
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rich Comroe
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Wierd ... was [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>
> My appologies to the list.
>
> I'd added a couple cents to a thread that had ended weeks ago.  Wierd, but

> my email client just pulled about 30 emails today on these old threads as
if
>
> they were new.  I'm reading along ... and this thread looks familiar ...
and
>
> only after sending a reply to one of them did I notice Patrick had penned 
> that mail back on May 26th.  Wierder yet is that I'd completely failed to 
> notice that the 30 or so old emails were almost all old posts from Patrick

> that were several weeks old, with a couple from Brad that were about a
week 
> old.  Don't know if the server hosting my mailbox did a drive restore that

> ressurected old mail or whether anyone else got a copies of old mail too. 
> Has this ever happened to anyone else?
>
> With dozens of email arrivals on the thread "3650 equipment" and "This is 
> HUGE!" I thought that these topics had reborn again!  :-)  My mistake.
>
> Rich
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Rich Comroe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>
>
>   

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RE: [WISPA] ALBERTO

[Dustin Jurman]

We're seeing the storm bands in Tampa now.  Very wet.

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Laura
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ALBERTO

We have earlier happy hours down here in the south. I guess it helps us to
cope with all of this.
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
- Original Message -
From: "JohnnyO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] ALBERTO


> And the more I thank god you live in the NorthWest as well :)~
>
> JohnnyO
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:38 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ALBERTO
>
>
> the more this happens to you folks down there... the more I thank God I
> live in the Northwest.
>
>
>
>
> North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
> sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
> Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
> 
> 
> -
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:32 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] ALBERTO
>
>
> >
> > Looks like it's that time of year again!
> >
> >  Looks like we are starting early again this year and I really hate
> > that!!
> >
> >
> > http://www.weather.com/maps/news/atlstorm1/closeupsat_large_animated.h
> > tml
> >
> >
> > Mac Dearman
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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RE: [WISPA] Returns to Hyperlinktech.com is it possible?

[Dustin Jurman]

No, Shriv is correct. You get banned if you have a problem with the
equipment and get stuck in a RMA / credit loophole which you can't get in
touch with anyone to help you. My experience after 10 years of doing
business with them was shocking.

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Returns to Hyperlinktech.com is it possible?

A refund or a credit?
I'm not aware of many vendors that agree to give refunds.
A sale is a sale.
Just because the cost to get it shipped is near the profit margin, and 
probably more costly to process the return than the profit on the sale in 
most cases as well.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Rudolph Worrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:16 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Returns to Hyperlinktech.com is it possible?


> John,
>
> I was looking for a response like yours.  I requested a refund lately and 
> was
> denied even though we called immediately after item was delivered.
>
> Has anyone ever returned and item to Hyperlinktech.com
>
>
> Quoting John Scrivner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> We were banned from doing business with them because we requested a
>> return once. Not kidding.
>> Scriv
>>
>>
>> Rudolph Worrell wrote:
>>
>> >Can someone give me their honest opinion about doing business with
>> >www.hyperlinktech.com.  They seem to have a great deal of antennas and 
>> >cable
>>
>> >but I am not sure they are WISP friendly as odd as that seems.
>> >
>> >-
>> >This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> -- 
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>
>
> -
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>
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RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

[Dustin Jurman]

That's 114 a year,  it's 9.50 a sub on a monthly rate.  

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

Bob Moldashel wrote:

> 3500 registered users using a network that costs $400K per year to 
> maintain!!!  That's $114 per subscriber!  Why not just pay to give 
> them DSL!   LOL
>
You laugh, but there are ISPs with less than 50 broadband customers.


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RE: [WISPA] Universal Service Fund

[Dustin Jurman]

Hey Marlon,

I like your point about the laptops, we really need to check and make sure
it's outside of the USF charter.  I think we definitely need more stories of
how USF is not bringing tangible results to communities, where WISPS are
delivering service to those communities self funded.

Dustin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 1:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Universal Service Fund

Here's what I wrote up on USF.  Several felt it's got some errors that need 
fixing.

Feel free to fix this, toss it and start over.  Anything at all.

But right now, officially, we're doing NOTHING.  And that must change guys. 
Someone needs to come up with a position paper for WISPA to work from. 
Right now I've got some access to some in congress and I think we should 
work with that!

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:25 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Universal Service Fund


> Marlon has been asking us for a while to give him feedback on Universal 
> Service. We have not helped him as much as we should have. He asked for 
> input from the WISPA membership originally. I am asking everyone, members 
> or not, if you can help. Marlon has been asked by a member of the House 
> Commerce Committee (One of his Reps in Washington) to help them structure 
> legislation toward the re-working on the Universal Service Program. 
> Thoughts on the Hill are now leaning toward making it available to 
> multiple operators in a market and opening it to aid in broadband as well 
> as telco.
>
> The feeling from most WISPs is two things to date. Most think the 
> government should make Universal Service just go away. I share some of 
> that feeling myself. What should be known though is that government rarely

> makes things go away. They usually want a role. With that said we need to 
> give them ideas on how to make this program help us in our goal to bring 
> broadband into underserved and/or unserved areas.
>
> To do this we need to understand what the program does, what was its 
> history, how it works and how it does not work. We need to develop a 
> strong strategy for dealing with Universal Service and offer a position 
> that legislators can feel good about and that helps show we are serious 
> about helping in legislative issues. I welcome feedback from anyone with 
> information which can help us develop this position. We need to act soon 
> as the legislature is wanting to do something now. Please help us mold our

> future through this important effort. Your thoughts and knowledge are 
> needed.
>
> Input from anyone with knowledge of Universal Service would be helpful at 
> this time. What we do not need is an argument that we should just tell 
> them to make it go away. We know that is what many of you want. In lieu of

> it going away we need to know how it can be made to help us.
> Thank you,
> Scriv
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RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

[Dustin Jurman]

Title: Message








Actually using both poles increases the
sensitivity of the radio at least by the way the Orthogon/Canopy 300’s
operate when in single payload.  

 

The dual payload option decouples this
feature and you really have two radio’s sending information on the same dish,
one in H and one in V.  If you look at the release notes any time the
radio’s are in dual payload you need more receive sensitivity then in
single payload.  (makes sense right?) Only the Spectra/Canopy300’s
operate in dual payload mode.  

 

The Gemini/Moto 60’s operate in
single payload all the time giving them a very high system gain by allowing
them to combine both poles into a single signal for processing.  

 

So to answer your question, Yes dual pole
can combat noise by increasing system gain really just creating more C/I.   A
while ago I told you that I was testing some of the new Gabriel High
Performance dishes.  When I get some time I have some screen shots that I’ll
post that I think you’ll find very interesting.  

 

Dustin 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:52
PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed
Backhaul options



 



Dustin,





 





You have showed how using both Pols,
can reduce the sensitivity requirements of the radio, able to extend link
distance, and likely aid in NLOS (that could degrade signal) as well.





However, when Tackling noise, that
doesn't really help, does it? As the sensitivity drops, that RSSI level also
gets closer to the noise floor, in many cases cancelling out the benefit.





 





So my question to you is have
you seen the Dual Pol config help combat the noise? Meaning... Allowing
the radio to operate closer to the noise floor at high modulations. Maybe by
rebuilding the wave by comparing them? For example, Proxim's circular pol
solution, often allows it to operate closer to the noise floor because if it. 





 





Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband





 





 







- Original Message - 





From: Dustin Jurman






To: 'WISPA General List' 





Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:47 PM





Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options





 



Charles you make a good point, but
I’m going to throw a “but” in here: 

 

 but the Orthogon / Canopy 300
radio’s will run also run at: 

 

64 QAM .92 dual
 -62 receive
sensitivity   
  +18 output (252.9 throughput)

64 QAM .75
dual  -68 receive
sensitivity 
+18 output    (206.7 throughput)

16 QAM .87 dual 
-71 receive
sensitivity 
+20 output    (160.8 throughput)   

 

Full list can be found in the release
notes and if you do the math on those modulations you can get some very good
performance.  I do agree with you that the licensed links would make more
sense, but hanging 4 foot dishes on towers becomes a very expensive task or if
you have to do a non-penetrating roof mount skid, the cost difference between
the sleds is big.  So we have to take in more than the cost of the radio’s,
licenses, leases and dishes but put together the total cost because if you are
hanging BIG dishes you’re going to dig deeper into your pocket. 

 

Sorry I missed you at the show, I’m
on baby watch so when she saw wireless beer and gear she called foul and took
away my kitchen pass L.

 

Dustin Jurman

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Charles Wu
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006
5:26 PM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed
Backhaul options



 



>The Spectra would be around $20k with external
antennas. A licensed product is going to be at least that, and probably $5k
more.





Sit back and actually think for a second
about this comparison, and you'll realize that a similarly
performing "unlicensed" solution will cost MUCH MORE (and
be much riskier) relative to the licensed solution





 





The main difference is that the spectra
requires 30 Mhz of ABSOLUTELY CLEAN SPECTRUM in both the vertical and
horizontal polarities (150 Mb "Air Rate" transmits on V-pol & 150
Mb "Air Rate" transmits on H-pol -- cut off 1 polarity, you halve
throughput)





 





In addition, the Rx sensitivity of the
Spectra at the 300 Mb data rate (256 QAM) is -59 dB with an output power of +18
(so you'll need HUGE dishes to guarantee the link budget)





 





So, lets do a "theoretical" path
calc / comparison (15 miles)





 





11 Ghz Licensed Link (100 Mb Full Duplex)





Rx Sensitivity: -76 dBm





Tx Power: +21 dBm





4' Dish: +39 dBi





 





Expected RSSI: -42.9 (>30 dB of fade
margin = ROCK SOLID LINK =)





 





5 GHz Spectra





Rx Sensitivity: -59 dB





Tx Power: +18





6' Dish: +34 dBi





 





Expected RSSI: -49.4 (~10 dB of fade
margin w/ 2' m

RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

[Dustin Jurman]

Title: Message








Charles you make a good point, but I’m
going to throw a “but” in here: 

 

 but the Orthogon / Canopy 300 radio’s
will run also run at: 

 

64 QAM .92 dual  -62
receive sensitivity   
  +18 output (252.9 throughput)

64 QAM .75
dual  -68 receive sensitivity 
+18 output    (206.7 throughput)

16 QAM .87
dual  -71 receive
sensitivity 
+20 output    (160.8 throughput)   

 

Full list can be found in the release
notes and if you do the math on those modulations you can get some very good
performance.  I do agree with you that the licensed links would make more
sense, but hanging 4 foot dishes on towers becomes a very expensive task or if
you have to do a non-penetrating roof mount skid, the cost difference between
the sleds is big.  So we have to take in more than the cost of the radio’s,
licenses, leases and dishes but put together the total cost because if you are
hanging BIG dishes you’re going to dig deeper into your pocket. 

 

Sorry I missed you at the show, I’m
on baby watch so when she saw wireless beer and gear she called foul and took
away my kitchen pass L.

 

Dustin Jurman

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Charles Wu
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006
5:26 PM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed
Backhaul options



 



>The Spectra would be around $20k with external
antennas. A licensed product is going to be at least that, and probably $5k
more.





Sit back and actually think for a second
about this comparison, and you'll realize that a similarly
performing "unlicensed" solution will cost MUCH MORE (and
be much riskier) relative to the licensed solution





 





The main difference is that the spectra
requires 30 Mhz of ABSOLUTELY CLEAN SPECTRUM in both the vertical and
horizontal polarities (150 Mb "Air Rate" transmits on V-pol & 150
Mb "Air Rate" transmits on H-pol -- cut off 1 polarity, you halve
throughput)





 





In addition, the Rx sensitivity of the
Spectra at the 300 Mb data rate (256 QAM) is -59 dB with an output power of +18
(so you'll need HUGE dishes to guarantee the link budget)





 





So, lets do a "theoretical" path
calc / comparison (15 miles)





 





11 Ghz Licensed Link (100 Mb Full Duplex)





Rx Sensitivity: -76 dBm





Tx Power: +21 dBm





4' Dish: +39 dBi





 





Expected RSSI: -42.9 (>30 dB of fade
margin = ROCK SOLID LINK =)





 





5 GHz Spectra





Rx Sensitivity: -59 dB





Tx Power: +18





6' Dish: +34 dBi





 





Expected RSSI: -49.4 (~10 dB of fade
margin w/ 2' more of each dish)





 





Then there's all sort of
"real-world" performance issues that occur with higher-order
modulation schemes and license-exempt operation





 





-Charles





 



---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:03
PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed
Backhaul options


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote: 

You don't need licensed to high throughput backhaul. For example, Orthogon's Spectra provides 300Mbps aggregate at a price point generally Less than 45Mbps licensed.    

 Hi Matt, I am curious to see where / what you got those numbers for the OrthogonSpectra? -Charles ---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com    -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] OnBehalf Of Matt LiottaSent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:28 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options   -Matt Bobby Burrow wrote:   

I'm looking at moving to a licensed solution to increase throughput across one of out backhaul links that spans 5 hops. Distances between hops range anywhere from 7 to 19 miles. We are currently using the dual nstreme Mikrotik solution and it is working very well, however the WRAP/RB532 solutions are only yielding ~25Mb per hop. Can anyone recommend a licensed radio manufacturer that should net us 50Mb-100Mb per hop? Thanks, Bobby BurrowEast Texas Rural Netwww.etxrn.com    

   






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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

[Dustin Jurman]

Delta3 - is the EBITA?

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.
Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:

> You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
> Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.
>
> Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
> to make a profit.
>
> Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
> in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.
>
> Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
> Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
>
>> I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
>> unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
>> and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
>> files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
>>  
>> Now, that's retail w/box and support.
>>  
>> I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
>> while
>> the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
>> cell
>> phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
>> free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
>> additional cost is kinda cool.
>>  
>> It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
>> Vonaga, but
>> haven't seen it yet.
>>  
>> . . . j o n a t h a n
>
>
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RE: [WISPA] Basic Mesh Theory

[Dustin Jurman]

It didn't attach correctly.

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Basic Mesh Theory

The file is attached as RTF.

-Matt

Dustin Jurman wrote:

> Hey Matt,
>
>  
>
> It would be nice to see this in a word document or Text based so one 
> could add comments to your work. 
>
>  
>
> DSJ
>
>  
>
> 
>
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> *On Behalf Of *Matt Liotta
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:56 PM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* [WISPA] Basic Mesh Theory
>
>  
>
> Attached is a quick rundown of basic mesh theory that I put together 
> in light of the recent thread. It hasn't been peer reviewed or edited, 
> which I would normally do before sharing publicly. But since I only 
> wrote because of a thread on this list I figured I would just share 
> it. Feel free to pick it apart.
>
> I do want to point out a couple of things though. First, this was 
> written in a generic way only covering mesh as a theory. As written it 
> can be applied to various transport technologies from fiber to 
> wireless; though I do provide an example using wireless P2P links. 
> Applying mesh theory to wireless P2MP or ad-hoc networks would require 
> special coverage.
>
> -Matt
>





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RE: [WISPA] Basic Mesh Theory

[Dustin Jurman]

Hey Matt,

 

It would be nice to see this in a word
document or Text based so one could add comments to your work.  

 

DSJ

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006
2:56 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: [WISPA] Basic Mesh Theory



 

Attached is a quick rundown of basic mesh theory that
I put together in light of the recent thread. It hasn't been peer reviewed or
edited, which I would normally do before sharing publicly. But since I only
wrote because of a thread on this list I figured I would just share it. Feel
free to pick it apart.

I do want to point out a couple of things though. First, this was written in a
generic way only covering mesh as a theory. As written it can be applied to
various transport technologies from fiber to wireless; though I do provide an
example using wireless P2P links. Applying mesh theory to wireless P2MP or
ad-hoc networks would require special coverage.

-Matt






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RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

[Dustin Jurman]

Takes no more than a few minutes to perform a peak hold Bob,  maybe you
should get one and play with it a bit.  It's a very powerful tool and I
think your opinion will change.   

I agree that we have two different schools of thought. 
1. Plan the play, play the plan.
2. Show up for the game.

Cliff was doing the right thing by doing a spectrum analysis, esp knowing
that he was going to go trough some existing equipment.  Anything short of
that would be irresponsible.  I would say to Cliff that if they cannot
produce results from the analyzer, graphs and charts than it's worthless and
done improperly,  just because you have an analyzer doesn't mean you know
how to use it.  

If it's helpful I will post some shots to a website if Cliff thinks that it
is helpful.  

Dustin Jurman
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 North Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
813--232-4887
Building Better Infrastructure!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

Dustin Jurman wrote:

>If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
>with "peak hold" you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end
of
>the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 
>  
>

I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 
180' up a tower for any period of time.

>Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
>everyone. 
>
I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying 
to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. 
Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind.  We only use 
equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike 
alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units 
into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be 
it.  It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially 
engineered to get by cheap.



>If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
>problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
>after.  
>  
>

But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow 
and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example).  Then the 
customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that 
was totally moot.

>I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
>wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  
>  
>

I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just 
pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes 
into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time.

-B-

>Dustin 
>  
>


-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell




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RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

[Dustin Jurman]

If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
with "peak hold" you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of
the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 

Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
after.  

I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

AUGH!


This whole thread..

Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary..

The Redline is a two piece radio.  It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. 
It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as 
power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not 
have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with).  As such 
they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels.  This is not 
a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great 
equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer.

A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is 
only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You 
really will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still 
have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and 
looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB.

The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end 
of the day or does "dumps' at certain times.  Unlike a full duplex radio 
like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the 
received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment 
is passing data. 

In my book you can't do "reliable spectrum analysis" with any radio or 
assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really 
well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most.  Will they 
get you by in most cases???  Sure.  
But...

To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed.

Personally...we never do spectrum analysis.  It causes more headaches 
than what it is worth IMHO.  Is it great for finding interference??  Sure.

I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on 
unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a 
spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds.

A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' 
or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are 
capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels.  Use radios with high RF power output. 
If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff 
for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the 
cable length is less than 24".  We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8" heliax 
after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever 
possible we use 5.3 Ghz.

Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall 
building in town and everyone is on it use 5 Ghz. you are probably in 
for some challenges. But if you do a spectrum analysis, find a clear 
channel, build on it and then smile and walk away only to have one of 
the existing operators change channels and rain on your parade.

Its a game of chance but with the proper engineering you can move the 
odds more in your favor.

Good Luck!

-B-


-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

[Dustin Jurman]

Tom,

There are always several ways to skin that cat! 

Well the larger antenna would certainly allow you to decrease your back lobe
and increase power and the size of your ear.  

If the problem is interference at your site, a lot of this is going to
depend on how your site is built, length of the face of the tower, and
direction of all of your equipment.  

While I haven't done any current work with the 2 foot Gabriel professional
series I've been hearing enough good stuff about it that I ordered one to
play with and see if it worth deploying. 

What I like to do in situations like this is break out the Anritsu spectrum
analyzer and spend some time documenting the site.  Knowing the ambient
noise floor at the site is important before putting any additional equipment
up as it's likely to interfere with other equipment.  

Dustin Jurman






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

Thanks, Charles and Dustin,

The challenge I'm working on is to determine if the degregation of my test 
link, is caused by

A) Distortion on the transmitter, at full power? or
B) Overload or lack of acuracy of the receiver. or
C) Or Just plain interference creeping in. (tested at about -80db)
note: multipath unlikely, as LOS link, 10 miles, parabolic antenna, o wall 
behind antennas, 100ft above other buildings.

In my Trango test case, w/ 2ft antennas, QAM16, at -55 db I got worse signal

Quality quality (packet loss) than at -65db. To me that would infer case A 
or B was happening.

What was interesting, is my Mikrotik test link w/ range5s, actually got peak

rssi (full power) of -47db apposed to Altas's peak signal of -55.
(note: path analisys calculated -55 db appropriate, so not a negative for 
the Trango, but a Plus for the Range 5, exceeding expectations).

With the Mikrotik, the higher the rssi radio power, the better the speed 
results, and lower the packet loss. So Mikrotik did not seem to be plagued 
with the same delimna. However, at a surprise, the Mikrotik performed at a 
slower speed, and had more packet loss, in its best link configuration, than

Trango had.  So the Trango at -65db QAM16, outperformed the Mikrotik 
at -47db.

I attribute those results partially, to how the radios deal with 
interference. One side of the link (AP/MU) had significant noise, causing 
the Mikrotik to lower modulation more frequently.  I proved this, by 
repeating speed tests with Trango using 5.3Ghz, which performed perfect 
links (no loss). However, the 10-11 miles was pushing the maxrange of 5.3, 
and I felt 5.3 was to risky, based on that. I actually had to turnup the 
Power a little over the legal limit to get the perfect link, but still lower

rssi than the 5.8G link.  But my point was, when noise wasn't there, the 
links worked much better.

So the decission I am trying to decide on is,
a) increase the gain (dbi) of the antennas and lower the gain (dbm) of the 
radio, to improve the link.
For example, upgrade from 2 ft dished to 3 or 4 ft dished.  or

b) get a better 2 ft antenna with more isolation.
For example, upgrade Gabriel cheap 2 ft para to the high performance 2 ft 
Gabriel Drum style antennas?

Either one could have a possitive effect. Its likely that my noise is 
comming from my colocated antennas at the same site. The Drum style antenna 
will likely have much better isolation comming from the sides.  Better F/B 
ratio is not jsut about an antenna behind me, but also beside me, and 
interference is not always cured by lowering the beamwidth, if the 
interference is comming from the side. So better isolation antenna could be 
the choice.

However, if the packet loss was from self generated noise, larger antenna 
would keep my gain up, even after lowering power. However, I actually would 
still have a gain improvement, because the antenna increases gain in both 
directions, where as lowering he TX power only does it in one direction. 
Because most of my interference is at the AP/MU side my paln was possibly 
to

Increase the antenna at the RU/Client, to a 3-4 ft dish. If packet loss 
at -55db was due to transmitting to high power, and loss was at MU/AP then 
it would be most importantto lower transmit power at the RU/Client side. 
Increasing dish size at RU would help this.

Then on the MU/AP side, I would add the high performance 2ft antenna, with 
better isolation, taking that most of teh interference may be colocation 
interference. Increasing the antenna size may not block interference comming

from the side.

But then again, if interference comming from the front (I have another site 
20 deg off to the left), its possible the larger dish and narrower beam may 
in fact also help isolate interference.

Now to make it complicated, what if the cause is not interference at the 
radio receivers? But instead

RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

[Dustin Jurman]

Moto/Orthogon

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Mario Pommier
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006
11:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16
DSSS interference



 

what brand?

dustin jurman wrote: 

Thank you Charles,   We use radio's that use 256 dots of modulation. Dustin JurmanPresidentRapid Systems Corporation1211 N. Westshore BlvdTampa, FL 33607[EMAIL PROTECTED]  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] OnBehalf Of Charles WuSent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:29 AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference   

As you start to walk up the modulation line you definitely need more C/I,    

but you also start to loose the ability to use full power out of the radio. A small bit of trivial regarding this issue With higher order modulation schemes, the EVM (Error Vector Magnitude) canbe so high that even on a perfect link (no noise) the receive chip isincable of decoding the signal properly into the correct 64 "dots" of theQAM modulation plot. This QAM constellation "interference" can be represented by a grid of 8x8dots that are being blurred by the transmitter not handling the signals withenough linearity (e.g., the radio power amp is turned to high).  When toomuch blur occurs, the adjacent dots touch each other and the receiver willnot be able to decipher the signal (it's blurred) -Charles ---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com    --WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

[dustin jurman]

Thank you Charles,  

We use radio's that use 256 dots of modulation.

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:29 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

>As you start to walk up the modulation line you definitely need more 
>C/I,
but you also start to loose the ability to use full power out of the radio.

A small bit of trivial regarding this issue

With higher order modulation schemes, the EVM (Error Vector Magnitude) can
be so high that even on a perfect link (no noise) the receive chip is
incable of decoding the signal properly into the correct 64 "dots" of the
QAM modulation plot.

This QAM constellation "interference" can be represented by a grid of 8x8
dots that are being blurred by the transmitter not handling the signals with
enough linearity (e.g., the radio power amp is turned to high).  When too
much blur occurs, the adjacent dots touch each other and the receiver will
not be able to decipher the signal (it's blurred)

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



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RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

[dustin jurman]

Tom,

DSSS modulation is a single-carrier modulation scheme, BPSK operates much in
the same way as DSSS which usually are much more robust then other forms of
modulation because they seem to run like a single carrier modulation
schema's. 

The neat thing about BPSK is its ability to take interference and still run
because it sends multiple bits of the same data and then aggregates it into
a single bit so it's not an all or nothing but more of a something.

As you start to walk up the modulation line you definitely need more C/I,
but you also start to loose the ability to use full power out of the radio.
As you turn the power up on the radio, the more distortion you get so you
can't achieve full modulation at full power where as you can run BPSK at
full power.  So dish size and quality becomes more important than radio
power when you are gunning for full modulation. 
 
Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

I have a problem where BPSK modulation has packet loss due to interference
greater than QAM16 at good RSSI levels.

I am using tons of DSSS all around the troubled OFDM link. (16 PtMP links
totalled from two cells, 2 miles apart). And my DSSS links most likely are
the culprits causing some self interference with the OFDM PtP link. So is
there anything about BPSK modulation that would make it more prone to
interferrence from DSSS radios apposed to QAM16?

RSSI at -65 when this occured most obviously.

QPSK had similar characteristic/loss as BPSK, when comparing to QAM16.

At -55 QAM modulations got worse/unusable, possibly because overloaded by
self noise.
At -75 QAM modulations got worse/unusable, possibly because to close to
noise floor (-80).
Testing at -65 was the sweet spot that QAM worked well, much better than
BPSK and QPSK.
QOS loss was relatively consistent for BPSK/QPSK at -55,-65, rssi, with a
little more degregation at -75 for QPSK as getting close to noise.

Note: 10 mile link. Rssi adjustments accomplished by reducing radio TX power
on both ends, Antenna type remained constant.  For the purpose of this
discussion, I'm looking for theory pertaining to all radios, not a specific
brand.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 

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RE: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

[dustin jurman]

Well that's true,  It's also dependant on the technology that you are using,
the antenna is only one part. 

Dustin 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 4:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

Dustin,

>It's disturbing that you take offense when someone makes a profit  for 
>building a better product

You have misunderstood. No offense was taken.  My point was that just
because it has a higher price tag does not make it a better antenna.  Many
people assume a name brand means better, which rarely is the case, it just
means they spend more money on marketing.  Also, I just questioned, what
value should be given to a product of a higher price. If I pay twice the
price, do I get twice the benefit from the product? In andrews case, a
better mount does not add value for me, as the competitor mount is already
good enough.  Travis, Posted an interesting point about the Drum design
antenna, that added a much ,arger value for him, getting rid of truck rolls
to the top of the mountain every time it snows daily.  I'd pay an extra $300
for that benefit any day of the week.

I don't mind paying more for value. I just expect to understand clearly what
that value is, and I need that value to be proven.

There may be many on this list including myself, that may not totally
understand all the factors to consider in an antenna.
With Dual Pol 900 Tilteks, I learned the value, and have no hesitance to pay
the price.

We've discussed many reasons, why one antenna could be better than another,
however, not all the antennas we have discussed as a overly priced antenna
possessesthose higher quality traits.

I've considered using Andrews, because the extra, 2 db gain, but I wanted to
know that was infact the case. Manufacturers often do exadurate their spec
sheets. You never know.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "dustin jurman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas


> So if I read this correctly, I guess you drive a VW bug.  (I hope that got

> a
> big laugh after your rant)
>
> I think the point was made in an earlier email that quality and 
> performance
> go hand in hand but don't take my word on it, This is an excellent project
> for Charles to do in the next WINOG that I plan to attend.
>
> While pure gain is a small part of the equation, how clean the frequency 
> is
> received is another, What about Front to back ratio's? I have two Spectra
> radio's collocated on the same tower on the same freq at the same height 
> on
> some 3 foot dishes.  (Ok they are 20 feet apart! But horizontal not
> vertical).  But Spectra/Moto300's are super sensitive so they hear a lot
> more than the standard 802.11a radio.
>
> You really can see dish quality with the Orthogon/moto radio's because 
> they
> give you so much information on how the signal is received over a generic
> RSSI or DBM level.  Charles are you listening?  A lot of value can be 
> taken
> from this rant.
>
> Lastly since you are really broaching a few different subjects, if you 
> want
> to talk about value of your services and time we should start another
> thread. It's disturbing that you take offense when someone makes a profit
> for building a better product. At a time when ISP's should be going 
> wireless
> or deploying their own network why do you want to compete with the LEC?
>
> Tom, I'll buy you a beer at ISPCON - I love productive threads.
>
> Dustin Jurman
> President
> Rapid Systems Corporation
> 1211 N. Westshore Blvd
> Tampa, FL 33607
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:13 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas
>
> Dustin,
>
> Your point is well taken, and I agree not all complete packages are 
> created
> equal.
>
> However, 2 points
>
> 1) I never had a Pac Wireless dish move on me yet. So there is nothing 
> wrong
> with being cheaper and cheesier, if its good enough for the job.
>
> 2) Product is cheap to manufacturer in quantity.  man hours (labor)on the
> other hand isn't, expecially mine.  No matter how much volume I do, my 
> labor
> doesn;t get cheaper, I'd argue that my labor rate goes up the more work I
> have, because its in finite supply, unlike product that has an infinite
> supply.
>
> My point is, my job is to put money in my pock

RE: [WISPA] Multiple Radios on Single antenna

[dustin jurman]

Moto300/Orthogons can do dual payload so you need both polarities to achieve
300 megs. 

DSJ



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 3:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radios on Single antenna



> What are the advantages of using
> both polarities for the same signal in a good LOS environment?

There isn't.
But having one on standby means, that when someone deploys on that
channel/pol, in seconds you can switch polarities, to get past it.
Broadcasting on DualPols, does have benefits in NLOS environments.  However,
the antenna design is more critical for transmitting on both at the same
time.  Often the Dual Pol antenna is used to create Circular polarity, such
as the higher end Proxim Dual Pol gear.  Or Orthogon that may compare
signals to self correct them.

Tom DeReggi


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: 17 January 2006 18:08
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radios on Single antenna
>
> I'm not saying there isn;t a benefit now and then sharing a Dual pol 
> antenna
>
> between two freqs, otherwise nobody would make them. BUt
>
> We have found most tower agreements also, have restrictions in the 
> agreement
>
> that disallow using multiple radios our spectrum ranges on the 
> antennas without paying for that as a second antenna, even though 
> taking up only one antenna position.
>
> We found that its just as easy to sneak/put up a second antenna, 
> without managers knowledge as it is to put up a dual freq antenna 
> without them knowing.  So normally you gotta pay regardless, if you do 
> it honestly. It becomes an issue of wether you are honest about what you
put up, versus
> sneaking up extra options without paying.   Wether its spectrum or 
> antennas
> is irrelevant.  Most tower owners don't audit their sides regularly 
> because its jsut to expensive and even if they do, the auditors often 
> are over worked, and don't always check thouroughly what they are 
> required to supposed to check.  Most colocators also aren't short on 
> antenna space, so they are really charging you based on the value you 
> are receiving being there, not really the actually antenna space. 
> Although special cases do apply such as with windload requirement of 
> over weighted towers or towers like clock tower that have a limited 
> number of window openings for the antennas.
>
> I also find saving money isn't that much of a savings because the 
> antenna makers then also charge more for the dual pol antennas to 
> counter most of your planned savings.
>
> However, saving on time, clearly is an option, with only one antenna 
> to carry and bolt up.  However you may run into issues, where the 
> alignment of the antennas may need to be varied to get optimal signal 
> based on wether you
>
> are aligning for 5.8 or 2.4. So because we like to engineer for 
> OPTIMAL signal, apposed to compromised mostly best signal, we prefer 
> to use seperate
>
> antennas.
>
> As a disclaimer: We pay for all our colocated antennas at our cell 
> sites, and we do that because we honor our tower relationships, and 
> have negotiated
>
> good terms, and do not want to abuse the trust they have in us, so we 
> maintain good relations.  I mention sneaking up antennas only because, 
> every
>
> once in a while, we may have sneaked up an antenna to do the inital 
> testing (which often requires it left there for a few days), so that 
> we can avoid the lengthly antenna request process and timely paper 
> work until after we are certain that the link is doable and tested.  
> We justify sneaking the antenna up, because not only are we saving us 
> time, we also are saving the management a lot of time, preventing the 
> need to do paperwork unnecessarilly, if we are unsuccessful in pulling 
> off the link we
> engineered.   I do not advise attempting to pull one over on Management
> companies. If the Management company does not care what spectrum gets 
> used, and charging just for the antenna space, the more power to you 
> for being smarter.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chadd Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:30 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Multiple Radios on Single antenna
>
>
>> Who sells dual band antennas? That could save some money on tower 
>> space and simplify some installations.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chadd
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:19 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radios on Single antenna
>>
>>
>> .  However, I am aware of many successfuly using 2.4 and 5.8 from the 
>> same antenna.
>>
>>
>> --
>> No vir

RE: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

[dustin jurman]

So if I read this correctly, I guess you drive a VW bug.  (I hope that got a
big laugh after your rant)

I think the point was made in an earlier email that quality and performance
go hand in hand but don't take my word on it, This is an excellent project
for Charles to do in the next WINOG that I plan to attend.  

While pure gain is a small part of the equation, how clean the frequency is
received is another, What about Front to back ratio's? I have two Spectra
radio's collocated on the same tower on the same freq at the same height on
some 3 foot dishes.  (Ok they are 20 feet apart! But horizontal not
vertical).  But Spectra/Moto300's are super sensitive so they hear a lot
more than the standard 802.11a radio. 

You really can see dish quality with the Orthogon/moto radio's because they
give you so much information on how the signal is received over a generic
RSSI or DBM level.  Charles are you listening?  A lot of value can be taken
from this rant. 

Lastly since you are really broaching a few different subjects, if you want
to talk about value of your services and time we should start another
thread. It's disturbing that you take offense when someone makes a profit
for building a better product. At a time when ISP's should be going wireless
or deploying their own network why do you want to compete with the LEC?  

Tom, I'll buy you a beer at ISPCON - I love productive threads. 

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

Dustin,

Your point is well taken, and I agree not all complete packages are created
equal.

However, 2 points

1) I never had a Pac Wireless dish move on me yet. So there is nothing wrong
with being cheaper and cheesier, if its good enough for the job.

2) Product is cheap to manufacturer in quantity.  man hours (labor)on the
other hand isn't, expecially mine.  No matter how much volume I do, my labor
doesn;t get cheaper, I'd argue that my labor rate goes up the more work I
have, because its in finite supply, unlike product that has an infinite
supply.

My point is, my job is to put money in my pocket, or pass the savings on to
my subscribers, not to put money in the pocket of a manufacturer that over
engineers. Its like the restaurants that attract people by givingthem these
huge platefulls of food, that rarely can ever be eaten in full, and half of
goes in the trash can. I'd rather save a dollar, than pay for waste.

We need cost effective alternatives for product. The most cost effective
vendors will sell more product.  Its the nature of the world we live in. 
There's no room for fat, in todays competitive world.

However, with that said, I am one to pay for quality, when there is in fact
additional value delivered worth paying for, apposed to the fabrocation that
quality is added based on name brand recognition.

For example, my experience with Radiowaves has been nothing but the best
from a customer service point of view, and may be worth paying more for, for
some people. However for me, their antennas have shown to under perform, and
not worth the higher cost on service alone.

I'll be buying a few Andrew's 3 ft dishes soon, but its not because of
quality, its because I found a distributor that will give me a good price,
compared to the alternatives. On a side note, Andrews does spec, about 2 db
higher in gain that competitors on the 3 ft Dual Pol antenna.

Dustin,

Have you confirmed wether the Andrews 3 ft dishes really deliver the 2 db
extra gain (34 db)?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas


> When you compare the Andrew and Gabriel mounts there is no doubt the 
> Andrew mount is more substantial, but it also appears to be over 
> engineered for a relatively small dish. We prefer the Gabriel mounts over 
> the Andrew since they are lighter and easier to work with, but not too 
> light like Pacwireless. The Andrew and Gabriel mounts also have superior 
> fine adjustment capabilities compared to Pacwireless.
>
> -Matt
>
> dustin jurman wrote:
>
>>Tom,
>>
>>You cannot forget that there are big differences in quality, it's not just
>>the dish but the mount as well.  As we utilize almost everything that you
>>list here with the exception of PAC Wireless there is a huge difference in
>>quality between Andrew and Gabriel quick fires.  While the Gabriel might 
>>be
>>the best value, it has the Chester che

RE: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

[dustin jurman]

Next time someone goes up I'll have them take some pictures.

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:11 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

>it has the Chester cheese doodle mount

Lol...would you mind posting a pic of what such a mount looks like?

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 

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RE: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

[dustin jurman]

Tom,

You cannot forget that there are big differences in quality, it's not just
the dish but the mount as well.  As we utilize almost everything that you
list here with the exception of PAC Wireless there is a huge difference in
quality between Andrew and Gabriel quick fires.  While the Gabriel might be
the best value, it has the Chester cheese doodle mount when compared to that
of an Andrew.  

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
813-232-4887




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas

I actually got clarification on the Pacwireless solutions yesterday.
2 ft feeds do not work for 3 ft dishes, different lengths.
The PacWireless is a dual pol feed on a 3 ft dish, but only has the gain of
less than a 2 ft dish.
The purpose of upgrading from a two foot to three foot was to increase gain
not decrease it.
So PacWirelesslesses Dual Pol dish today, is a useless product. I was told,
its in engineering now for a redesign.

Gabrial 2ft dual pol- 28.9 dbi   ($350) - best value to day.
Radiowaves or Andrews 3ft dual pol- 32 dbi ($1024) - desperate to get 3 more
db.
Gabriel 4 ft Dual Pol -34.5 db ($1000.)
Pacwireless 2ft single pol - 29 dbi ($180) Pacwireless 3 ft single pol- 32
dbi ($250) - Very cost effective Option, if you can live with Single Pol.
Pacwireless Dual Pol (3 ft)- 27 dbi. ($450) - worthless.

There is a clear gap in our options for 3 ft dual pol, and good value.

Four feet dishes are a big pain, won't fit through some hallways and most
roof hatches. And the windload is atrocious, when trying to mount it.

Three feet dishes are MUCH easier to work with, half the windloading, are
safe to install on existing wall mounted masts of slightly smaller diameter
(2.5") left from Teligent and simliar companies.  But yet maximizes the
available DB able to get from an antenna for a link.

I'd really like to see a 3 ft Dual pol option under $600, at some point. 
What really is Dish antenna anyway? More or less just a large trash can lid!

How much can it really cost? Its not that difficult. I'd like to see
PacWireless finish the job, and redesign that feed to get the 32 dbi that it
should be able to get.  Or Gabriel to fill in the hole. What I'd really like
to see is Maxrad make a Dual pol version of their 3 ft dish. There 3 foot
single pol dish was the best we have ever tested from a gain point of view,
really sweat.  It out performed all the 4 fts from competitors. Its around
$450 but its only single pol now :-(

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "G.Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas


> Pac wireless has a 2ft dual pol, and a 3ft single pol, maybe the 2ft
> Feedhorn fits the 3 footer?!
>
> Gino A. Villarini,
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.aeronetpr.com
> 787.273.4143
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:48 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 3 ft Dual Pol antennas
>
> The street price I have found on 3 ft Dual pol 5.2-58Ghz parabolic 
> antennas
> have been around 
>
> $1045 for Andrews, and $1025 for Radiowaves.
>
> Any vendors on list in a possition to do better than that? If so, contact 
> me
>
> off list.
>
> I find it odd, that there is such a large gap between 2 feet and 3 feet.
> 2 feet Dual pol gabriels are runing around $350.  It would be nice if
> someone came up with something half way in between for 3 ft dual pol.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
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RE: [WISPA] Re: verizon fios - Advertising Battle

[dustin jurman]

Charles, 

What kind of work did they do in the forbearance issues?  

It's good to have some guns on our side into battles, In many trips to the
FCC I've heard the same thing,  We  -ISP's Wisp's etc,,, Don't show up
enough as the LEC's roam the halls of the FCC. Squeaky wheel gets the oil. 


Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 1:50 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: verizon fios - Advertising Battle


You guys haven't been going to enough conferences and listening to very
bright people like Kris Twomey try and explain such things to the (W)ISP
industry. Shame on that Michael Anderson for putting Kris up in front of an
audience to try to keep the WISP industry informed.


Thought I'd chime in and add my 2 cents

One thing that this WISP / ISP / Operator community lacks is a cohesive and
constant voice for wireless in DC (WISPA has done a great job, but guys like
Marlon, Rich, Jon and co still have day jobs and families to feed, and we
can't rely solely on their volunteer efforts)

I would like to take this opportunity to intrtoduce everyone to Michael
Hazzard, of Womble, Carlyle, Sandridge & Rice (WCSR).  WCSR has been quite
active in the CLEC / UNE-P / Forebearance battles, and although the outcome
of those battles may be a foregone conclusion by now, they are interested in
helping on the final front for independents (e.g., broadband wireless).
That said, we plan on collaborating together the next several months amongst
all affected communities (in this case, WISPs/ISPs are one organization we
are interested in working with, but we also plan on working with other types
of network operators, including CLECs, Rural Independents, Electrical Coops,
Munis, etc) to put together a unified cohesive "position" on wireless
broadband

We are currently working on some survey questions, and will probably be
contacting everyone shortly to ask some of these questions (so please don't
blacklist me =)

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 


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RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz

[dustin jurman]

I have some at 300 with the 120's. I was never able to get a straight answer
on the down tilt for NLOS deployments so we deployed them with LOS down tilt
calculations. Was curios if there were any new deployments at the same range
and what that experience has been with down tilt.   

Dustin 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brad Larson
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 11:03 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz

Dustin, Typically 50 feet above the tree line for this customer gets their 1
mile cell sites which is what the business model plans for. They garner
better tower rates when not asking for the primo higher tower locations.
I've been trying to get Tom to travel and see a site for a long time. The
base station antennas are the 90 or 120 sectors we ship with the
BreezeAccess VL platform. Brad


Brad Larson
Northeast Regional Manager
Alvarion 



-Original Message-
From: dustin jurman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:48 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz


Hey Brad, what are the heights of the base stations?  Are they tower mounted
and what antenna's are they using? 

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brad Larson
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:34 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz

Not all OFDM radios are created equally (especially PTMP). In many areas of
NorthEast USA we have 1 mile radius's with eave mounted BreezeAccess VL
Subscribers (5.8 Ghz) doing mod 6 which reflects a 10 meg true data rate.
Typically these are obstructed NLOS links instead of going thru 1 mile of
solid treelines. Rain/Ice does occasionally change mod levels but more than
adequate data rates are achieved with this model. I have 2,400 subscribers
(and growing) deployed in this fashion with one customer. Brad

-Original Message-
From: Blair Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz


My practical tests show that 2.4GHz works better in a rural Near LosS
environment.  This is using 802.11b/g vs 802.11a.

I have had no luck with 5.3/5.8GHz in a rural Near/Non LoS environment.  On
the other hand, 5.8Ghz seems to be fine at range in LoS conditions.

Go figure.

Paul Hendry wrote:

>Just noticed that the document also says that 5GHz is better for 
>passing through damp tree areas than 2.4GHz as 2.4GHz is very close to 
>the O-H frequency which water is full of and therefore water absorbs 
>2.4GHz signals considerably more than 5GHz. If this is true then why is 
>2.4GHz better for tree NLOS environments than 5GHz?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Paul Hendry
>Sent: 03 January 2006 11:48
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz
>
>I thought that was it but needed someone to clarify ;) What about 5GHz 
>penetrating walls much better than 2.4GHz?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Mike Delp
>Sent: 03 January 2006 11:44
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz
>
>Paul,
>
>5 GHz works NLOS in an urban environment.  Bouncing around buildings, etc.
>Look at the success of Redline and Orthogon.  OFDM and 5 GHz works well 
>for them.  An environment with trees is different.  Trees absorb the 
>signals, instead of bouncing them.  Especially wet trees!
>
>We utilize 2.4 at every pop, mainly because of the low cost for 
>deployment, and general coverage.  We utilize 5 GHz frequently and also 
>900 MHz for
NLOS
>issues.
>
>
>I hope this helps
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Paul Hendry
>Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 4:44 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz
>
>Ola everybody,
>
>   I hope everyone had a great Christmas and New Year and are all ready

>for 2006, the year of the WISP :)
>   When I have setup wireless in an area it has always depended on the 
>Geographic's of the area as to if we deploy 2.4GHz or 5GHz and I have
always
>decided that 2.4 should be used where NLOS could be an issue. This 
>decision has always been based on the fact that the lower frequency 
>will pass
through
>trees a lot easier however I have recently read a white paper that 
>suggests otherwise. Basically the document says that the higher the 
>frequency, the better the scatter (the ability to bounce of and around 
>objects). It also says that 5GHz is better at penetrating walls.
>

RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz

[dustin jurman]

Hey Brad, what are the heights of the base stations?  Are they tower mounted
and what antenna's are they using? 

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brad Larson
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:34 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz

Not all OFDM radios are created equally (especially PTMP). In many areas of
NorthEast USA we have 1 mile radius's with eave mounted BreezeAccess VL
Subscribers (5.8 Ghz) doing mod 6 which reflects a 10 meg true data rate.
Typically these are obstructed NLOS links instead of going thru 1 mile of
solid treelines. Rain/Ice does occasionally change mod levels but more than
adequate data rates are achieved with this model. I have 2,400 subscribers
(and growing) deployed in this fashion with one customer. Brad

-Original Message-
From: Blair Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz


My practical tests show that 2.4GHz works better in a rural Near LosS
environment.  This is using 802.11b/g vs 802.11a.

I have had no luck with 5.3/5.8GHz in a rural Near/Non LoS environment.  On
the other hand, 5.8Ghz seems to be fine at range in LoS conditions.

Go figure.

Paul Hendry wrote:

>Just noticed that the document also says that 5GHz is better for 
>passing through damp tree areas than 2.4GHz as 2.4GHz is very close to 
>the O-H frequency which water is full of and therefore water absorbs 
>2.4GHz signals considerably more than 5GHz. If this is true then why is 
>2.4GHz better for tree NLOS environments than 5GHz?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Paul Hendry
>Sent: 03 January 2006 11:48
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz
>
>I thought that was it but needed someone to clarify ;) What about 5GHz 
>penetrating walls much better than 2.4GHz?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Mike Delp
>Sent: 03 January 2006 11:44
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz
>
>Paul,
>
>5 GHz works NLOS in an urban environment.  Bouncing around buildings, etc.
>Look at the success of Redline and Orthogon.  OFDM and 5 GHz works well 
>for them.  An environment with trees is different.  Trees absorb the 
>signals, instead of bouncing them.  Especially wet trees!
>
>We utilize 2.4 at every pop, mainly because of the low cost for 
>deployment, and general coverage.  We utilize 5 GHz frequently and also 
>900 MHz for
NLOS
>issues.
>
>
>I hope this helps
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Paul Hendry
>Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 4:44 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: [WISPA] 2.4GHz vs 5GHz
>
>Ola everybody,
>
>   I hope everyone had a great Christmas and New Year and are all ready

>for 2006, the year of the WISP :)
>   When I have setup wireless in an area it has always depended on the 
>Geographic's of the area as to if we deploy 2.4GHz or 5GHz and I have
always
>decided that 2.4 should be used where NLOS could be an issue. This 
>decision has always been based on the fact that the lower frequency 
>will pass
through
>trees a lot easier however I have recently read a white paper that 
>suggests otherwise. Basically the document says that the higher the 
>frequency, the better the scatter (the ability to bounce of and around 
>objects). It also says that 5GHz is better at penetrating walls.
>   So my question is, have I been basing some of our deployments on
false 
>information or am I missing something here? I know that in tests I have 
>seen a more stable signal at 2.4GHz in a NLOS environment but is this 
>just a fluke?
>
>Cheers,
>
>P.
> 
>
>  
>


--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[dustin jurman]

Sure do, 

http://www.rapidsys.com/sec_dsl/wireless.asp

Also build networks for other folks, have our own tower crews on staff,
bucket trucks, Member of NATE, etc. 

I'm sure Marlon can fill you in a bit more. 

You can find our whitepapers on Moto's site and Orthogon. Been on the podium
with Tom, Tim Sanders, gone to the FCC a couple of times on my own dime for
Wispa, and other groups, yada, yada, yada. 

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

dustin jurman wrote:

>Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or 
>lower your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable 
>company comes after your customers. You would have to apply your 
>reduced rates across the board to your residential customers. Coming 
>back to a customer after the fact is a tough proposition, I don't 
>believe single bill is so much of an issue for you as trying to save a 
>customer in the 4th quarter when your down by a few Touchdowns.
>
>Dustin Jurman
>President
>Rapid Systems Corporation
>1211 N. Westshore Blvd
>Tampa, FL 33607
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
>
Hey Dustin,

Do you do wireless down there  Your website says nothing about it. 
Just fiber and DSL

Just wondering...

-B-

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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[dustin jurman]

Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or lower
your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable company comes
after your customers. You would have to apply your reduced rates across the
board to your residential customers. Coming back to a customer after the
fact is a tough proposition, I don't believe single bill is so much of an
issue for you as trying to save a customer in the 4th quarter when your down
by a few Touchdowns. 

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential MTUs,
I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. The
residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars savings. I
get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to their new
service.  A common response is, "we loved your service and support, and the
Cable companies was horrible through the hole process, but they won my
business with a price I could not turn down." Learning after the fact of
their intent to cancel and that they were not aware that I also offered a
Double play that could offer near the same value proposition.  I then try to
get them to switch back, as its no more of a hassle to cancel the service
they just installed than mine. I then offer them a better price than the
cable company does for the bundled services. Customer then responds, "but
the Cable company will let me have all the services on one bill", and it
just makes it easy.  So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for
their time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support to
save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two
envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them.

My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and modivated by
saving money.  In order to keep residential business, it does need
consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the services you
offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be just a broadband
provider, we also need to offer the other services, or our clients are
talking to our competitors for the other services that we don't offer,
attempting to steer them from using us for our core services also, without
me knowing it is even happening.  We can be competitive and compete on
price, when we know that we need to. If we play in the residential markets,
we are all going to have to offer double or triple play.  I don't want to be
a TV provider or a Phone company, But I don't have a choice. The market is
making me change my business model.  I either join the current trends, or I
lose clients.  The question is does an ISP only want to have the opportunity
to serve the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all day
long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be able to
compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones business, and I
don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with my 1%. But I need to be
able to offer enough value to enough people to justify that percentage of
the population to chose me over the competition and choices they have.  If
that can be done, my company has value, and survivabilty regardless of what
competition comes to town.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play


> If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and 
> sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one 
> bill, but it can be one call.
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
>> Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been 
>> over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to

>> buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to 
>> do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and 
>> cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle 
>> provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their

>> phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets 
>> turned off, and the PHONE.
>
>
> -- 
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>
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RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

[dustin jurman]

Couldn't have said it better.

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jeffrey thomas
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:03 PM
To: WISPA General List; 'WISPA General List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

/delurk

Top 5 reasons why legacy navini sucks

1.SCDMA phy/mac increases latency to low of 80msec peak 280msec and avg of
100msec with 14-25% jitter.
 ( in english, the latency sucks arse )

2. only truely makes sense for sub 2 mile cell NLOS deployment with
BRS/MDS/ITFS Licensed spectrum. ( 2.5 ) licensed- reason being is that the
average recieve sensitivity that it will work in a nlos cell is -105 dbm. in
a 2.4 enviorment, the average noise floor is at least -95dbm = wont work
50-60% of the time.

3. even if they dropped the price to 10k a sector, its still a rediculous
price for a product that doesnt offer any QOS ( and cant offer qos ) to
deliver a residential service

4. Their zero truck roll model usually only applies to 60% of customer
deployments which = not a zero truck roll model

5. blatent marketing lies = unhappy customers

my 2 cents

-

\lurk

-

Jeff


On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:51:44 -, "Paul Hendry"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Hey Dustin, could you elaborate on the "navini sucks" statement? We 
> where looking at deploying them so would be good to know why they are not
good.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of dustin jurman
> Sent: 15 December 2005 18:48
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi
> 
> I think that is supposed to be 1.5 meg a seconds.  They use navini and 
> this is just a response to shut down the new Orleans muni project.  
> And the reason they don't support VOIP over it is because navini 
> sucks.  This is Bellsouth's way of saying look! - SHINNY BLUE THING!
> 
> Dustin
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Peter R.
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:23 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi
> 
> http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1134594567.htm
> 
> Post Katrina: Mississippi Gets Wireless Broadband
> 
> BellSouth has begun deploying high-speed wireless broadband speeds as 
> fast as 1.5 Gb/s in Gulfport and Biloxi, Miss., modifying the 
> company's original wireless broadband rollout plans in order to get 
> service to residents of the hurricane-ravaged area, where the 
> infrastructure damage is so huge it hasn't been fixed yet.
> 
> The incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC), whose original rollout 
> plans envisioned only offering wide-area wireless broadband in rural 
> areas, is also offering residents of the Mississippi towns a bit of a 
> discount out of sympathy for their plight - and, of course, the good 
> publicity it might get out of the move.
> 
> "Small businesses and homeowners are still rebuilding, and they are 
> looking to BellSouth to provide the critical communications they need 
> to get their lives in order," says John McCullouch, president of 
> BellSouth's Mississippi operations. "Our wireless broadband service 
> will provide customers with a viable and economical solution for 
> high-speed Internet access."
> 
> A BellSouth spokeswoman added that, after blanketing the hurricane-hit 
> cities, the carrier will "now return to our original strategy of 
> (offering wireless broadband in) areas from suburbia on out," where 
> such services as DSL can't be delivered economically.
> 
> About a month ago, BellSouth began offering a high-speed wireless 
> service in downtown New Orleans, but that was priced as a 
> small-business service only.
> "It was absolutely critical to getting the city up and running," the 
> BellSouth spokeswoman explained, regarding the decision not to offer a 
> residential plan.
> 
> One thing BellSouth is not offering the Mississippi residents, 
> however, is voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) on its shiny, new, 
> wireless broadband.
> The company had no explanation of why, other than the simple fact that 
> it's not going to offer it for now. For more on BellSouth's wireless 
> rollout progress in the Gulf area, read the current issue of Broadband 
> Business Forecast. For a trial subscription, go to 
> http://www.telecomweb.com/cgi/catalog/info?BNN.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter
> RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
> We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate
> 813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156
> fax 305.675.6494
> http://4isps.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> WISPA Wi

RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

[dustin jurman]

All True.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

I'd heard that they'd promised New Orleans police department an abandoned
Bell South building but decided against that since the muni project was
still alive.

dustin jurman wrote:

>I think that is supposed to be 1.5 meg a seconds.  They use navini and 
>this is just a response to shut down the new Orleans muni project.  And 
>the reason they don't support VOIP over it is because navini sucks.  
>This is Bellsouth's way of saying look! - SHINNY BLUE THING!
>
>Dustin
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Peter R.
>Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:23 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi
>
>http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1134594567.htm
>
>Post Katrina: Mississippi Gets Wireless Broadband
>
>BellSouth has begun deploying high-speed wireless broadband speeds as 
>fast as 1.5 Gb/s in Gulfport and Biloxi, Miss., modifying the company's 
>original wireless broadband rollout plans in order to get service to 
>residents of the hurricane-ravaged area, where the infrastructure 
>damage is so huge it hasn't been fixed yet.
>
>The incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC), whose original rollout 
>plans envisioned only offering wide-area wireless broadband in rural 
>areas, is also offering residents of the Mississippi towns a bit of a 
>discount out of sympathy for their plight - and, of course, the good 
>publicity it might get out of the move.
>
>"Small businesses and homeowners are still rebuilding, and they are 
>looking to BellSouth to provide the critical communications they need 
>to get their lives in order," says John McCullouch, president of 
>BellSouth's Mississippi operations. "Our wireless broadband service 
>will provide customers with a viable and economical solution for high-speed
Internet access."
>
>A BellSouth spokeswoman added that, after blanketing the hurricane-hit 
>cities, the carrier will "now return to our original strategy of 
>(offering wireless broadband in) areas from suburbia on out," where 
>such services as DSL can't be delivered economically.
>
>About a month ago, BellSouth began offering a high-speed wireless 
>service in downtown New Orleans, but that was priced as a small-business
service only.
>"It was absolutely critical to getting the city up and running," the 
>BellSouth spokeswoman explained, regarding the decision not to offer a 
>residential plan.
>
>One thing BellSouth is not offering the Mississippi residents, however, 
>is voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) on its shiny, new, wireless
broadband.
>The company had no explanation of why, other than the simple fact that 
>it's not going to offer it for now. For more on BellSouth's wireless 
>rollout progress in the Gulf area, read the current issue of Broadband 
>Business Forecast. For a trial subscription, go to 
>http://www.telecomweb.com/cgi/catalog/info?BNN.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Regards,
>
>Peter
>RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
>We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate
>813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156
>fax 305.675.6494
>http://4isps.com
>
>
>
>--
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

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RE: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

[dustin jurman]

I think that is supposed to be 1.5 meg a seconds.  They use navini and this
is just a response to shut down the new Orleans muni project.  And the
reason they don't support VOIP over it is because navini sucks.  This is
Bellsouth's way of saying look! - SHINNY BLUE THING!

Dustin  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1134594567.htm

Post Katrina: Mississippi Gets Wireless Broadband

BellSouth has begun deploying high-speed wireless broadband speeds as fast
as 1.5 Gb/s in Gulfport and Biloxi, Miss., modifying the company's original
wireless broadband rollout plans in order to get service to residents of the
hurricane-ravaged area, where the infrastructure damage is so huge it hasn't
been fixed yet.

The incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC), whose original rollout plans
envisioned only offering wide-area wireless broadband in rural areas, is
also offering residents of the Mississippi towns a bit of a discount out of
sympathy for their plight - and, of course, the good publicity it might get
out of the move.

"Small businesses and homeowners are still rebuilding, and they are looking
to BellSouth to provide the critical communications they need to get their
lives in order," says John McCullouch, president of BellSouth's Mississippi
operations. "Our wireless broadband service will provide customers with a
viable and economical solution for high-speed Internet access."

A BellSouth spokeswoman added that, after blanketing the hurricane-hit
cities, the carrier will "now return to our original strategy of (offering
wireless broadband in) areas from suburbia on out," where such services as
DSL can't be delivered economically.

About a month ago, BellSouth began offering a high-speed wireless service in
downtown New Orleans, but that was priced as a small-business service only.
"It was absolutely critical to getting the city up and running," the
BellSouth spokeswoman explained, regarding the decision not to offer a
residential plan.

One thing BellSouth is not offering the Mississippi residents, however, is
voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) on its shiny, new, wireless broadband.
The company had no explanation of why, other than the simple fact that it's
not going to offer it for now. For more on BellSouth's wireless rollout
progress in the Gulf area, read the current issue of Broadband Business
Forecast. For a trial subscription, go to
http://www.telecomweb.com/cgi/catalog/info?BNN.

Thank you.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate
813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156
fax 305.675.6494
http://4isps.com



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RE: [WISPA] Things you might be interested in

[dustin jurman]

I would be interested in #1.
 

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark 
KoskenmakiSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:58 PMTo: 
WISPA General ListSubject: [WISPA] Things you might be interested 
in


I have found myself in need of some devices from time to time that I can't 
seem to buy at a reasonable price.  
 
Since I was laid up for a month and more, I began doing some research on 
developing things I needed.   Before I go into a bunch of work to try 
to finalize these... I'd like to know if anyone else is interested...
 
1.  IP addressable,  10/100 ethernet based voltage / charge / 
temperature / monitoring and/or switching device.  You 
could monitor batteries, solar panels, generator, start/stop things, 
etc.  Cost:  ~$200
 
2.  IP addressable, 10/100 ethernet based thermo-electric generator, 
fueled by propane, either remotely controlled, or operating on a programmable 
basis - to operate as a backup power supply in conjunction with 12 or 24V 
battery based DC systems.   Would provide battery monitoring, as 
well.
Approximate cost:  $2500 for a 75 watt 24V system.   Could 
be made in 20, 50, 100, or larger wattage sizes - cost rises considerable with 
power output.    This would serve as backup for a solar/wind or 
even for AC in conjunction with lead-acid batteries.
 
3.  "crash detect and reboot"  system.   This would 
connect via 10/100M ethernet to a network, ping a programmable IP (in fact, 
several of them) and be able to power cycle dc or ac powered 
equipment.   Programmable as to how many pings to miss, how long to 
power down, etc.    Cost:   ~$200.  
 
Each of these devices would be designed to operate on very minimal power 
and tolerate temperature extremes.  
 
 
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061personal correspondence 
to:  mark at neofast dot netsales inquiries to:  purchasing at 
neofast dot netFast Internet, NO 
WIRES!-
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RE: [WISPA] Arp requests

[dustin jurman]

Means that the arp timeout for that device is set low.

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:18 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Arp requests

Hi All,

I just got my copy of Network Spy registered so I'm looking around at what
there is to be seen.

I see my router broadcasting arp requests (coming from both subnets gateway
addys, .1 and .129).

I also see customers send out broadcast arp requests once in a while.

But I have one customer that's doing it 20x more than anyone else.  That
does that likely mean?

thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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RE: [WISPA] Florida job is killing me

[dustin jurman]

That was not right!

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 10:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Florida job is killing me


  You wouldnt believe how hard we are really working down here in Ft. 
Lauderdale, Florida. I hired Mike Delp to come out and help with the
climbing  - - - and as you can see he is earning his pay :-P

 

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell
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RE: [WISPA] Secondary DNS

[dustin jurman]

You kill me man! 

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 6:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS

Heck, I'd do backup mx stuff with someone now.  I have the capacity.  I just
need someone who's able to set it all up as I don't know squat about the
servers :-).

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message -
From: "A. Huppenthal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS


> True, if there's no web or email services, then having DNS doesn't do much

> for you.
> nice to spool up email someplace else, if your network is toasted - like a

> hurricane.
>
> once all our network are interconnected with 100 mbit pipes, we can worry 
> about backing each other up. :-)
> in the mean time, there are commercial solutions...
>
> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>
>> Two things.  I figure if both dns servers are at the same place and both 
>> go down then probably I've got other problems that will take it all down 
>> anyhow.
>>
>> Secondly, I've just split my network in two.  So I do have geographic and

>> provider redundancy.
>>
>> laters,
>> Marlon
>> (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
>> 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
>> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "A. Huppenthal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:11 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Secondary DNS
>>
>>
>>> In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary 
>>> requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners.
>>> How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS 
>>> geographically seperated?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>
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>>
>>
>
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RE: [WISPA] FCC meeting

[dustin jurman]

Always interested 

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:18 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] FCC meeting

Hi All,

I'm setting up some FCC meetings for late Oct. or early Nov.  I need 5
people to go.

I'm looking mainly for folks that haven't been there before.  We'll get
together after the team is picked and talk about what we'd like to talk
about.

A few things I think should be on that list:
Who the customers are.
Why they use wisps vs. other services.
Examples of wisps servicing areas that have no other services.
Examples of emergency response (I'd like to get Mac there for this one).
What we need in order to be able to do a better job (clean spectrum, more
power in some bands, outdoor only bands etc.).

You'll need to dress up (I know at least a few of you have still got your
Sunday best :-) and pay your own way.

If anyone is interested in this please let me know so I can get a group
together and finalize the plans.

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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RE: [WISPA] Installer looking for work in Florida

[dustin jurman]

I'm in Tampa and always looking for good guys.

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Metcalf
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:41 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Installer looking for work in Florida

My Installation Manager had to move to Florida for personal reasons and is
looking for work, has experience installing canopy, trango, karlnet
(physical install and aiming), can make cat5 cables, and can tower climb,
has years of experience running cat5/cable, also managed a crew with 2
junior guys.


If you need somebody, email me and I"ll give you his contact #

Thanks

Dan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [WISPA] FCC Open Commission Meeting Moved

[dustin jurman]

Maybe, Marlon's friends can get us some assistance moving the venue.

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Open Commission Meeting Moved

Actually, we could. My building has a press briefing room specifically for
this sort of thing.

-Matt

dustin jurman wrote:

> Too bad WISPA can't offer a larger venue so more people could attend 
> vs. having at Bells facility :-) DSJ
>
> --
> --
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *On Behalf Of *Rick Harnish
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2005 2:39 PM
> *To:* 'WISPA General List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Bullit'
> *Subject:* [WISPA] FCC Open Commission Meeting Moved
>
> *_SCHEDULE AND VENUE CHANGE: _*
>
> *_FCC TO HOLD OPEN COMMISSION MEETING_*
>
> *_IN ATLANTA, GEORGIA at 11:00 am_*
>
> *Please note that the time and venue for the Federal Communications 
> Commission's September Open Meeting has changed. *
>
> As described in the Commission's Thursday, September 8^th Notice, on 
> Thursday, September 15^th , the Commission will hold an open meeting.
> At this meeting, it will hear presentations from Commission staff and 
> various industry representatives concerning their role in Hurricane 
> Katrina recovery efforts. For the convenience of those testifying, the 
> Federal Communications Commission will hold its meeting in Atlanta, 
> Georgia at BellSouth Telecommunications Inc.'s Emergency Control 
> Center located at the following address:
>
> BellSouth Midtown I Building
>
> 4^th Floor
>
> 754 Peachtree Street
>
> Atlanta, Georgia 30309
>
> The meeting is scheduled to commence at 11:00 am. Seating is limited 
> and will be on a first come, first serve basis.
>
> The prompt and orderly conduct of Commission business permits less 
> than 7-days notice be given.
>
> *-FCC-*
>
> **/Rick Harnish/**
>
> /President/
>
> /OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.///
>
> /260-827-2482 Office/
>
> /260-307-4000 Cell/
>
> /260-918-4340 VoIP///
>
> /www.oibw.net <http://www.oibw.net/>/
>
> **/[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/**
>
> **/ /***/ <http://www.oibw.net/>/*
>
> **//**
>
> <http://www.wispa.org/>
>

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RE: [WISPA] FCC Open Commission Meeting Moved

[dustin jurman]

Too bad WISPA can't offer a larger venue so more people 
could attend vs. having at Bells facility  :-)
 
DSJ


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick 
HarnishSent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 2:39 PMTo: 
'WISPA General List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Bullit'Subject: 
[WISPA] FCC Open Commission Meeting Moved


SCHEDULE AND VENUE CHANGE: 

FCC TO HOLD OPEN COMMISSION 
MEETING
IN ATLANTA, GEORGIA at 11:00 am
 
Please note that the time and venue 
for the Federal Communications Commission’s September Open Meeting has 
changed.  

 
As described in the Commission’s Thursday, 
September 8th Notice, on Thursday, September 15th, the 
Commission will hold an open meeting.  
At this meeting, it will hear presentations from Commission staff and 
various industry representatives concerning their role in Hurricane Katrina 
recovery efforts.  For the 
convenience of those testifying, the Federal Communications Commission will hold 
its meeting in Atlanta, Georgia at BellSouth Telecommunications Inc.’s 
Emergency 
Control Center located at the following 
address:  

 
BellSouth Midtown I 
Building
4th 
Floor
754 
Peachtree Street
Atlanta, Georgia 30309
 
The meeting is scheduled to commence at 
11:00 am.  Seating is limited and will be on a 
first come, first serve basis.  

 
The prompt and 
orderly conduct of Commission business permits less than 7-days notice be given.  

 
 
-FCC-
 
 
Rick 
Harnish
President
OnlyInternet 
Broadband & Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 
Office
260-307-4000 
Cell
260-918-4340 
VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  

 

 
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RE: [WISPA] RE: [Emergency-Relief] 900 gear needed

[dustin jurman]

Tell me where to ship some jumpers and Yagis too and I'll make it happen. 

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shayne Rose
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] RE: [Emergency-Relief] 900 gear needed

Mac,

Trango is going to donate the requested 900Mhz equipment: 10
M900S-AP's and 20 M900S-SU's I can overnight them today and you will have
them tomorrow. These have internal 60x60 antennas + an external connector on
the AP's for use with an Omni, can anyone donate 900Mhz Omni's and jumper?

Shayne Rose
National Sales Manager
Trango Broadband Wireless
a division of Trango Systems, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 8:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; wireless@wispa.org; Rick Harnish
Subject: Re: [Emergency-Relief] 900 gear needed

Hey folks,

We are in desperate need of some 900MHz  APs and client side gear as well.
We have numerous shelters that are covered up with trees and we are either
going to have to " relay" the signal in with 2.4GHz or we could hang some
900 gear and be done and down the road. We could use 10 Aps and twice that
many SUs right now.

Please shoot me somethinng from somewhere

Thanks,
Mac



Mac Dearman wrote:

> Bullit, Rick and all
>
>We are in desperate need of a couple tower climbing crews. I have a

> fractured Tibia and my foot & leg is swollen as big as my wifes head.
> We have TLINK10s to deploy (THANKS TRANGO BROADBAND) and I think we 
> are about to get all the bandwidth via my fiber we can use. Please, 
> please  - no newbies for tower climbers. We dont want anyone hurt 
> PERIOD. Please bring your own rigging and safety gear.
>
>I also have access to towers from I-20 corridor in N. Louisiana to 
> I-10 Corridor  in Southern La. and East across the entire Southern 
> Louisiana that run to just west of Hattisburg Mississippi. I also 
> think we are going to be FEMA sanctioned in the next few minutes as 
> they have called and blessed our efforts here this morning. With or 
> without FEMA's cards  - - the march has started!!
>
>  Thanks,
>


--
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-303-4229
318-303-4231
318-450-4349 - Monroe, La
318-303-4227 - NOC


***
For more information on PART-15.ORGs Disaster Relief Efforts, please see
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***
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http://www.part-15.org/emergencyrelief/info.asp
***
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http://www.part-15.org/emergencyrelief/shelter1.asp
***
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http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp

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RE: [WISPA] Comment Period Extended....

[Dustin Jurman]

I agree,  we run into this problem quite a bit.

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Comment Period Extended

I tossed this out as an issue that we may want to take on about a month ago.

Anyone got that email?

No one seemed interested at the time though.

To me, it looks like something we should support.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message -
From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Comment Period Extended


> FYI:
>
> OET SEEKS COMMENT ON PETITION FROM CONTINENTAL AIRLINES FOR DECLARATORY
> RULING REGARDING WHETHER CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS ON ANTENNA INSTALLATION
> ARE PERMISSIBLE UNDER THE COMMISSION'S OVER-THE-AIR RECEPTION DEVICES
> (OTARD) RULES.   Extended the time to file comments and reply comments.
> by Order Extending Comment Period. (Dkt No.  05-247). Action by:  Acting
> Chief, Office of Engineering and Technology. Comments Due:  09/28/2005.
> Reply Comments Due:  10/13/2005. Adopted:  08/22/2005 by ORDER. (DA No.
> 05-2335).  OET
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> -- 
> Bob Moldashel
> Lakeland Communications, Inc.
> Broadband Deployment Group
> 1350 Lincoln Avenue
> Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
> 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
> 631-585-5558 Fax
> 516-551-1131 Cell
>
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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RE: [WISPA] The climb safe thread

[Dustin Jurman]

Don't know about that but look at the sala's.

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] The climb safe thread

Am I correct in thinking that this one
http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10200

will kill you faster than this one?
http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10192

I would think the seat strap takes pressure off the leg straps.  I'm
thinking the leg straps is what cuts off the circulation.  Is this thinking
correct?

Also, I printed the article and will deliver it to the fire chief here so he
knows how to save my ass without killing it.  =-O

George wrote:

> Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
>
>> Not sure if you want to modify your advice of "tie-of and sit down on 
>> the harness seat, and regain your wind / strength" after you read the 
>> following link.  It is potentially dangerous advice if you are not 
>> aware of the dangers in doing so.
>>
>> http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/Safety-HTML/HTML/Will-Your-Sa
>> fety-Harness-Kill-You~20040119.htm
>>
>>
>> Lonnie
>>
>
>
> I had my guy read this link.
>
> One thing to note, is that the harness with the seat, is not really a 
> seat that you sit in and dangle your feet.
> It just adds added comfort.
>
> I think that was an important article for everyone to read.
>
> I mean who knew that this was something that happens.
>
> Surprised.
>
> George
>
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RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps

[Dustin Jurman]

Brian,

Anything over 60 feet is only a matter of seconds before death. So the
difference beteen 100 feet and 1000 is a few seconds. Buy the absolute best
gear possible and have confidence in your gear.  Good climbing gear can run
you $1500 for harness, positioning lanyard, fall arrester, etc.. But you
will have the confidence that you have the best gear possible and in case a
mistake is made you have the best chance of you, your climber and your
business living through it.  Get serious about this. 


Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
813-232-4887
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps

I'll need to order today.  Does midwest have the best prices?  I want a
double lanyard but they are 150 - 200, it that what they all run or is this
just super high quality?  I didn't want to have 1000 into climbing gear.  I
know I knowI could die.


is this the best positioning strap?  
http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10241

The double lanyard needs to have the big fat hooks.  Anymore suggestions?

George wrote:

> http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10229
>
> George
>
>
> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>
>> I just bought a harness.  (I know, two years in and it's my first
>> harness)  I need a nice double lanyard and a positioning strap (or 
>> two, does it take 2?)
>>
>> Where can I find good quality, but not a premium price.  Or maybe 
>> medium quality.  I don't want to go broke or fall.  :)
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>
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RE: [WISPA] RE: Question about Orthogon Systems

[Dustin Jurman]

Todd,
 
I know exactly how you feel.  I can tell you that my 
Orthogon Radio's do those impossible things.   But give us an idea of 
what you are up against.  If anyone can do it Orthogon can but if your just 
being silly then that is another story. 
 
Dustin 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd 
LancasterSent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:26 AMTo: 
wireless@wispa.orgSubject: [WISPA] RE: Question about Orthogon 
Systems

Hello,
 
I am very much considering considering purchasing a 
Orthogon Gemeni lite system. I just wanted to ask if anyone else out there is 
using these systems currently in nlos applications and if so how well does it 
really work? 9 grand to find out is a rather expensive experiment. They claim 
you can make links where you would think it is impossible. However what they 
claim and what is true could very well be different as it is in so many other 
things in life. Any input would be much appreciated.
 
Thanks,Todd 
Lancaster
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