Re: [WISPA] Slightly OT: punching holes in stainless steel enclosures

[George Rogato]

Do you have a url?

On 6/19/2016 3:03 PM, T Maylone wrote:

tractor supply 36 x 18 x 18 $219

all depends on purpose and what you call reasonable


/Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID/


Adair Winter  wrote:

http://www.amprod.us/t-minifort_enclosures.aspx

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Mitch > wrote:


Where are you guys find reasonably priced enclosures?


Mitch Koep
218-851-8689  cell

On 06/19/2016 08:36 AM, Scott Carullo wrote:

plasma cutter.  I can make a hole (square for fan or round for
whatever) in about 10 seconds without any effort and without
buying expensive carbide bits over and over.  Its my new favorite
way :)
*Scott Carullo*
Technical Operations
Florida High Speed Internet
(321) 205-1100 x102 



*From*: "Adair Winter" 

*Sent*: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:06 AM
*To*: "WISPA General List" 

*Subject*: Re: [WISPA] Slightly OT: punching holes in stainless
steel enclosures
I best option is to use a knock out/punch kit, like the OP
suggested.
Drilling is OK but a step bit can make a real mess of a hole and
stainless makes it even worse.
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, T Maylone
mailto:t...@cherrycapitalconnection.com>> wrote:

slow speed
carbide bit
coolant
let the drill do the work not muscle
sharp bit
easy to sharpen
/Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID/


"Troy Gibson, Byhalia.net" mailto:t...@byhalia.net>> wrote:
Stepped bits work great but stainless steel will ruin any
bit, so I buy cheap ones from harbor freight as they are dull
when the hole is done.  This is what I have used, $20 for two
piece set instead of $50 for one this size from Lowe's. 
These tear through steel too.  I've used on 1/2 inch

Galvanized I beams with no problem.

http://m.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drills-96275.html
Troy
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message 
From: Stephen Potter mailto:surfingst...@gmail.com>>
Date: 6/18/16 11:38 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Slightly OT: punching holes in stainless
steel enclosures
I have used stepped drill bits with excellent results for
drilling holes into sheetmetal/stock.
http://amzn.to/1UhSf7o
Inline image 1
Steve
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 8:34 PM, Adair Winter
mailto:ada...@amarillowireless.net>> wrote:

That's exactly what we do. It'll be fine.
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 10:21 PM, mailto:mike.l...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Howdy.

Ordered a nice new stainless steel outdoor enclosure
to house some equipment. I need to put some 3/4 inch
holes in it. Anyone happen to know if using a regular
Klein or Greenlee punch set will do the trick? I know
they work great on mild steel but wasn't sure about
stainless.

Anyone ever done it before?

Thanks,
Mike
___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org 
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

-- 


Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 
C: 806.231.7180 
http://www.amarillowireless.net




___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org 
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless


___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org 
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

-- 


Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 
C: 806.231.7180 
http://www.amarillowireless.net 




___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org 
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless



___
Wirel

Re: [WISPA] Software for network monitoring

[George Rogato]

I use Nagios for up, down, unreachables.
It has a plug in for mozilla firefox that sits in the bottom add on bar 
which shows you up, down, unreachables and more. It's customizable.



On 1/9/2015 2:11 PM, Fabrizio Fiore Donati wrote:
Hi all we have a network of about 200 wireless pop, each pop have 
about 8 devices, what software do you suggest to use for monitoring ?
Wireless devices are a mix of mikrotik, ubiquity, cambium and siae 
microelettronica. Switches are zte and cisco.


Right now we use ipswitch whatsup gold but i'm looking for a valid 
alternative.


Anu suggestion ?

Fabrizio Fiore Donati

Mobile: +39 3289872420
E-mail: fabrizio.fioredon...@2bite.net 



2bite s.r.l.
Via Campo di Pile
67100 L'Aquila (AQ) - Italy
Tel.: +39 0862441583


___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless


___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Re: [WISPA] test

[George Rogato]

Patrick,

Your back with Alvarion, is this new?

George


On 11/6/2012 2:03 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:


test



 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
computer viruses(42).




___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless


___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

[George Rogato]

Maybe there will be a bounce.

There was a lot of shares short 46% and either the shorts will have to 
buy back to cover and take profits, or

they did and cushioned the sell off.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=UBNT+Key+Statistics

*Share Statistics

*Short % of Float (as of Jul 13, 2012)^3 :46.70%



On 8/10/2012 9:47 AM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

It's down to $8.88!

On 8/10/2012 7:04 AM, James Howard wrote:


The lower the price, the more shares they can buy back with the $100M 
repurchase.  That will also flush out some of the whiny investors who 
don't really have any faith in the company.


*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Brad Belton

*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2012 8:11 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

It will be interesting to watch today and Monday...that's for sure!  
They beat their earnings, warn about the effects of counterfeited 
product and announce they intend to take this opportunity to buy back 
$100M worth of shares.


Brad

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
<mailto:[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes

*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2012 3:54 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Cc:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

Eh. I plan to reinvest heavily. The CEO is planning to purchase a ton 
of stock. Why wouldn't he want it to go low?



On Aug 10, 2012, at 0:19, George Rogato <mailto:wi...@oregonfast.net>> wrote:


After hours had a low of $6.90

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ubnt/after-hours

There was a lot of transactions.



On 8/9/2012 7:05 PM, Brad Belton wrote:

Agreed. I almost hit that $9ish range a week or so ago, but
my order was just a bit too late.  My stake in UBNT is very
small, but have been averaging down and it's been
entertaining at the very least to watch. Hoping to acquire a
few more shares tomorrow if the price is right!

Vegas or the stock market...almost the same entertainment
"rush"...lol

Brad

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Sam Tetherow
*Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:58 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

If you still have faith in the company, now is a good time to
buy down your cost basis.

On 08/09/2012 05:44 PM, Doug Clark wrote:

Have you ever had 100,000 barrels of oil that you purchased
at 110.00 per barrel that you are sitting on and then overnight

the price per barrel drops to 75.00 per barrel?  ON SALE
HUH??  

/---Original Message---/

*/From:/*Zach Mann <mailto:zma...@gmail.com>

*/Date:/*8/9/2012 4:45:42 PM

*/To:/*WISPA General List <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>

*/Subject:/*Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

Sweet! It's on sale...

On Aug 9, 2012 5:40 PM, "Doug Clark" mailto:d...@txox.com>> wrote:

I just suddenly got very ill

/---Original Message---/

*/From:/*Faisal Imtiaz <mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net>

*/Date:/*8/9/2012 4:31:54 PM

*/To:/*WISPA General List <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>

*/Subject:/*[WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

OUCH !

Anyone following this stuff...

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ubnt

--

Faisal Imtiaz

Snappy Internet & Telecom

7266 SW 48 Street

Miami, Fl 33155

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Helpdesk: 305 663 5518  option 2 Email:
supp...@snappydsl.net <mailto:supp...@snappydsl.net>

___

Wireless mailing list

Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>

http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless





___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless



___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless







___

Wireless mailing list

Wireless@wispa.org  <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>

http:

Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

[George Rogato]

  
  
After hours had a low of $6.90
  
  http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ubnt/after-hours
  
  There was a lot of transactions.
  
  
  
  On 8/9/2012 7:05 PM, Brad Belton wrote:


  
  
Agreed. 
I almost hit that $9ish range a week or so ago, but my order
was just a bit too late.  My stake in UBNT is very small,
but have been averaging down and it’s been entertaining at
the very least to watch.  Hoping to acquire a few more
shares tomorrow if the price is right!
 
Vegas
or the stock market…almost the same entertainment “rush”…lol
 
Brad
 

  
From:
wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Sam
Tetherow
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price ..
News ...
  

 
If you still have faith in the company, now
  is a good time to buy down your cost basis.
  
  On 08/09/2012 05:44 PM, Doug Clark wrote: 

  

  

  

  Have
  you ever had 100,000 barrels of oil that you
  purchased at 110.00 per barrel that you are
  sitting on and then overnight


  the
  price per barrel drops to 75.00 per barrel? 
  ON SALE HUH??   


   


   

  


  
 
  
  
 
  
  

  ---Original
Message---


   


  
From:
Zach Mann
  
  
Date:
8/9/2012 4:45:42 PM
  
  
To:
WISPA
  General List
  
  
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News
...
  


   

Sweet! 
It's on sale... 

  On
  Aug 9, 2012 5:40 PM, "Doug Clark" 
  wrote:
  

  

  

  

  
I
just suddenly got very
ill 
  
  
 
  
  
 
  

  
  

   


   


  ---Original
Message---


   


  
From:
Faisal
  Imtiaz
  
  
Date:
8/9/2012 4:31:54 P

Re: [WISPA] Wind Safety regulations for towers

[George Rogato]

On 5/24/2011 3:38 PM, Marco Coelho wrote:

> I caught one guy hanging upside down on a cranes heavy ball 300 ft up
> without safety straps  With OSHA on-site (but not looking thank
> God).  Fired him over the radio.

Got a picture of that?





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Gettin sick of Microtik

[George Rogato]

How in gods name do you guys stay in business if you still haven't found 
a stable platform that you know how to configure.

I'm just amazed.




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] BBS'n

[George Rogato]

When we took over the old Windows to Infinity  BBS - ISP it was running 
Excalibur.

My earliest achievement that made me so proud, was when we took the last 
Excalibur customer off the BBS and moved them over to our portmasters 
and killed that BBS.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Looking for antenna/enclosure - help

[George Rogato]

I've seen those posted on one of these lists. Exactly the same as 
trango. From the same manufacturer. I think they are in Israel.
Can't remember the url or company, but I'm thinking it was an overseas 
wireless distributor that had them.
Anyways, hope that helps.

George



Scott Carullo wrote:
> I'd like to find an antenna/case (like the arc wireless enclosure with 
> antenna / rootenna / DCE-ANT cases etc..) that has a larger beamwidth 
> horizontally.  Most of the ones I have found are 22deg or less.
> 
> Basically I'd like to emulate a Trango 5580ap antenna pattern.  It would be 
> nice to have a compact antenna/enclosure combo with a nice wide 60deg or so 
> beamwidth and having dual polarity would be added bonus.
> 
> Anyone know where I can find one of these?
> 
> What are you all doing, external sector antennas?  I hate to go back to 
> running LMR again :)
> 
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis

[George Rogato]

I have a 10'red balloon that we used to float a few years back for tower 
siting purposes.

I wasn't able get too much equipment on that balloon and expect it to float.

I tried it with an old map2 with rubber ducky and cat5 as the line and 
the balloon had a hard time rising.

The calculation is 1 gram of weight to 1 liter of helium.

You have to take into consideration the weight of the balloon and the 
weight of the rope. Cat is heavier than tether line.

Good news is, a set of binoculars lets you at least spot it which is 
what we ended up doing.

George






Robert West wrote:
> I used to use those 7 ft. helium balloons as advertising when I had another
> business years ago.  They had pretty good lift!  Sounds like a good idea.
> Not sure how you could test a full speed link with a dish but an Omni could
> be put on it with a Mikrotik 411 board.  Then you could use cat5 riser cable
> to tether it.  At least you could see a signal that way.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Aaron D. Osgood
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:51 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis
> 
> Balloon
> --Original Message--
> From: George Rogato
> Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> To: WISPA General List
> ReplyTo: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis
> Sent: Jul 17, 2009 09:30
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Reed wrote:
>> Does anyone have a easy, inexpensive way to test a link before a tower 
>> is built?  RadioMobile link analysis says I can get backhaul to the 
>> potential location, but in my area trees are always a challenge.  I 
>> would like to test it now, while the trees are full, before I commit the 
>> money to build a tower.  I am looking at a 120' ANWireless tower, so I 
>> need to be able to test at 100+ feet.
>>
> Scott Reed
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> GAB Midwest
> 1-800-363-1544 x4000
> Cell: 260-273-7239
> 
> 
> Scott
> 
> I noticed in your signature that it says GAB Midwest.
> 
> Who is GAB Midwest?
> 
> Thanks
> George
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis

[George Rogato]

Scott Reed wrote:
> Does anyone have a easy, inexpensive way to test a link before a tower 
> is built?  RadioMobile link analysis says I can get backhaul to the 
> potential location, but in my area trees are always a challenge.  I 
> would like to test it now, while the trees are full, before I commit the 
> money to build a tower.  I am looking at a 120' ANWireless tower, so I 
> need to be able to test at 100+ feet.
> 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x4000
Cell: 260-273-7239


Scott

I noticed in your signature that it says GAB Midwest.

Who is GAB Midwest?

Thanks
George




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Antenna Performance

[George Rogato]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> So you can use 10/5 mhz channels with
>
>
>
> But not..
>
> StarOS
> WARP
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>   
Actually you can do 5 and 10 MHz channels with star and wraps, but not 
V2, only V3 .
V3 is the beggining of channel widths for star.
V2 is old firmware.




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

[George Rogato]

Wonder how much it is.
Says it's based on qty of email addresses.



RickG wrote:
> Cost?
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Pat O'Connor wrote:
>> We're switching to this over this weekend.
>>
>> http://www.redcondor.com/products/appliances.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>> One of the things I've done in the spam war is to use something called ASSP,
>>> which is just Anti Spam SMTP Proxy.
>>>
>>> It does a passable job of prevening inbound spam, and it prevents anyone not
>>> on my network from sending mail out through my server, via firewall rules
>>> put on the server.
>>>
>>> You can use a similar setup to have your customer's emails filtered outbound
>>> through something like this.It can also be placed on alternate ports and
>>> using firewall rules, prevent any cust omer from sending mail directly out.
>>>
>>> I haven't needed to do that, at least not yet.
>>>
>>> ASSP, when run on the mail server machine itself, can also act as an
>>> authentication and filtering of outbound emails.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:33 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Hi All,

 What are you guys doing for email these days?  I LOVE my setup for it's
 reliability, ease of use etc.

 Hacked customer accounts and virus's are killing me though.  We don't
 catch
 things until 100,000s of messages go out and we get black listed.  This
 has
 now happened 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years.

 My server admins aren't coming up with a solution to this other than to
 limit cc's to 25 per message.  We did that once before and my phone rang
 off
 the hook because people can't send jokes to their friends.

 The other thing that makes it hard is that the log files that I get (up to
 40 megs per day!) don't list the authenticated sender, only the reply
 address.  So I see tens of thousands of messages from a user that's not
 even
 mine (faked info).  sigh

 We use Courier MTA.

 My thought is to set the server to allow a max of 1000 messages per day
 per
 user.  And to somehow make the log file ONLY send me the number of
 messages
 received per a user, and the number sent, user name and ip addy of all
 those
 sending.  Twice now I've asked about that idea and gotten no response from
 the server admins.

 Suggestions?

 laters,
 marlon



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

[George Rogato]

I almost feel the same way too.
But a funny thing is, some of our customers like our email. It never has 
virus, and we have a spam filter provider that sends a daily quarantine 
report and those emails never make it to my server.
So for the most part, everything is great till we get blacklisted.
And a nice thing is, it's free advertising that you just can't buy.

When I see some of the emails people send to their groups cc'd and not 
bcc'd, and I see my domain in the bulk of those emails, I know other 
people do too that don't use my service.
When they get tired of poor support from their isp, like charter or 
qwest, they already know we are serving their friends and find their way 
to us.

We get a lot of word of mouth advertising that way.

RickG wrote:
> I have thought about this many times as well. I couldnt make a clean
> break so I practically keep it a secret that we offer it. They only
> get our email if they ask. Now, if we can drop the electrical
> storms!!!
> -RickG
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Robert West 
> wrote:
>> Email?  We don't need no stinkin' email!
>>
>> We gave up email hosting.  We were sending invoices via email and lots of
>> the customers were never getting them because they never used the email
>> address we gave them, they were mostly using Yahoo online!  The user
>> accounts were jammed packed of just junk mail and such because they never
>> grabbed mail from their box.  Well!  After some thought, we stopped giving
>> out email addresses and giving them a list of free email sites such as Gmail
>> and yahoo.  ("In an effort to keep our prices as friendly as we can.
>> blah, blah, blah.)  We grandfathered the existing users and hosted them
>> but eventually they all moved to the free providers also.  So now what?  No
>> more support calls on the email, I can tell ya that!  More than half of our
>> trouble tickets went away.  I no longer have to recite to grandma how to
>> reenter her user name and password just because the grandkids wiped it out
>> of her incredimail.  YES!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:33 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> What are you guys doing for email these days?  I LOVE my setup for it's
>> reliability, ease of use etc.
>>
>> Hacked customer accounts and virus's are killing me though.  We don't catch
>> things until 100,000s of messages go out and we get black listed.  This has
>> now happened 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years.
>>
>> My server admins aren't coming up with a solution to this other than to
>> limit cc's to 25 per message.  We did that once before and my phone rang off
>>
>> the hook because people can't send jokes to their friends.
>>
>> The other thing that makes it hard is that the log files that I get (up to
>> 40 megs per day!) don't list the authenticated sender, only the reply
>> address.  So I see tens of thousands of messages from a user that's not even
>>
>> mine (faked info).  sigh
>>
>> We use Courier MTA.
>>
>> My thought is to set the server to allow a max of 1000 messages per day per
>> user.  And to somehow make the log file ONLY send me the number of messages
>> received per a user, and the number sent, user name and ip addy of all those
>>
>> sending.  Twice now I've asked about that idea and gotten no response from
>> the server admins.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
>> laters,
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
-

Re: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

[George Rogato]

How come Google, Yahoo, and Live.com don't get black listed.
I'm pretty sure 1 million times more spam comes out of those domains 
than any small independent isp's ...



Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> What are you guys doing for email these days?  I LOVE my setup for it's 
> reliability, ease of use etc.
> 
> Hacked customer accounts and virus's are killing me though.  We don't catch 
> things until 100,000s of messages go out and we get black listed.  This has 
> now happened 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years.
> 
> My server admins aren't coming up with a solution to this other than to 
> limit cc's to 25 per message.  We did that once before and my phone rang off 
> the hook because people can't send jokes to their friends.
> 
> The other thing that makes it hard is that the log files that I get (up to 
> 40 megs per day!) don't list the authenticated sender, only the reply 
> address.  So I see tens of thousands of messages from a user that's not even 
> mine (faked info).  sigh
> 
> We use Courier MTA.
> 
> My thought is to set the server to allow a max of 1000 messages per day per 
> user.  And to somehow make the log file ONLY send me the number of messages 
> received per a user, and the number sent, user name and ip addy of all those 
> sending.  Twice now I've asked about that idea and gotten no response from 
> the server admins.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> laters,
> marlon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

[George Rogato]

I quickly googled Magic Jack Corporate and didn't get any corporate 
info, so I was assuming it was a privately held product.

No stock play there

:(



Martha Huizenga wrote:
> I don't think so.
> 
> Martha Huizenga
> DC Access, LLC
> 202-546-5898
> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
> 
> /*
> 
> 
> 
> George Rogato wrote:
>> Are they a publicly traded company?
>>
>>
>> Martha Huizenga wrote:
>>   
>>> Check out the video on their web site: 
>>> http://www.magicjack.com/2/?mid=307001&a=55959&s=
>>>
>>> Looks like the inventor still owns it? Dan Borislow is also the founder 
>>> of YMAX Communications Corporation, a modern phone company with the 
>>> largest competitive local exchange carrier (CLEC) network in the U.S.
>>>
>>> Martha Huizenga
>>> DC Access, LLC
>>> 202-546-5898
>>> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
>>> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> George Rogato wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Who owns Magic Jack?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>   
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>
>>>>> Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you already
>>>>> have and its own voicemail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
>>>>> economy.  Then the world.
>>>>> *
>>>>> *Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>
>>>>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>>>>> improbable, must be the truth."
>>>>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> George Rogato wrote:
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
>>>>>> announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
>>>>>> portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
>>>>>> instead of making everyone click.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Smith
>>>>>> MVN.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>   
>>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> 

Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

[George Rogato]

Surprisingly to me, it's kinda caught on so much so that quite a few of 
my subs use it.

Lately I was toying with the thought of doing a "Magic Jack" bundle with 
my service.

Of course I have my own voip offering through VOX and I'm not sure if it 
would take away from that or add to it.

I wonder if offering a low end deal like Magic Jack is going to hurt 
OFN's image or help bolster it..






Josh Luthman wrote:
> I played with it a while back.  Very good stuff, just needs number
> portability and a little better support.  I know someone who spent nearly
> two days to pay their bill...
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 11:18 AM, George Rogato wrote:
> 
>> Who owns Magic Jack?
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>> Summary:
>>>
>>> Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.
>>>
>>> *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you
>> already
>>> have and its own voicemail.
>>>
>>> Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
>>> economy.  Then the world.
>>> *
>>> *Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>>> improbable, must be the truth."
>>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith  wrote:
>>>
>>>> George Rogato wrote:
>>>>> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
>>>> Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
>>>> announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
>>>> portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.
>>>>
>>>> Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.
>>>>
>>>> (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
>>>> instead of making everyone click.)
>>>>
>>>> David Smith
>>>> MVN.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>> 
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

[George Rogato]

Are they a publicly traded company?


Martha Huizenga wrote:
> Check out the video on their web site: 
> http://www.magicjack.com/2/?mid=307001&a=55959&s=
> 
> Looks like the inventor still owns it? Dan Borislow is also the founder 
> of YMAX Communications Corporation, a modern phone company with the 
> largest competitive local exchange carrier (CLEC) network in the U.S.
> 
> Martha Huizenga
> DC Access, LLC
> 202-546-5898
> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
> 
> /*
> 
> 
> 
> George Rogato wrote:
>> Who owns Magic Jack?
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>   
>>> Summary:
>>>
>>> Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.
>>>
>>> *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you already
>>> have and its own voicemail.
>>>
>>> Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
>>> economy.  Then the world.
>>> *
>>> *Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>>> improbable, must be the truth."
>>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>> George Rogato wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
>>>>> 
>>>> Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
>>>> announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
>>>> portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.
>>>>
>>>> Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.
>>>>
>>>> (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
>>>> instead of making everyone click.)
>>>>
>>>> David Smith
>>>> MVN.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>   
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>  
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> 
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Magic Jack

[George Rogato]

Who owns Magic Jack?



Josh Luthman wrote:
> Summary:
> 
> Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.
> 
> *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you already
> have and its own voicemail.
> 
> Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
> economy.  Then the world.
> *
> *Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith  wrote:
> 
>> George Rogato wrote:
>>> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
>> Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
>> announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
>> portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.
>>
>> Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.
>>
>> (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
>> instead of making everyone click.)
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Google Voice

[George Rogato]

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_daily_am_2009-06-19




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton onFunding /Financing / Capital Availability

[George Rogato]

Seriously, the person you should be asking this question to, is your 
accountant.

They are going to know best.


RickG wrote:
> Correct, compared to C-Corps. Is there and advantage of LLC versus S-Corp?
> -RickG
> 
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Scottie Arnett  wrote:
>> S-Corps get rid of the double taxation...but you are limited to how many 
>> shareholders you can have and some other limited things.
>>
>> Scottie
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:23:37 -0700
>>
>>> Melissa does work at an accounting firm.  She's not the CPA but she does
>>> most of the paperwork etc.  And, naturally we work very closely with the
>>> CPAs at the firm.
>>>
>>> We've looked at the money differences between sole proprietor and corp.
>>> There really isn't much difference if you stay honest with things.  At least
>>> not at the low levels we're at.
>>>
>>> When we start making more money (in the next couple of years as things are
>>> sitting now) we'll likely be better off as a corp.  Because the current
>>> business doesn't actually own anything we'll be able to easily set things up
>>> so that the corp rents things from us.  The office, vehicles etc.  In that
>>> way we can personally take some of the income while the corp writes it off.
>>>
>>> The way you juggle things to keep taxes down is to work the tax brackets.
>>> Right now we're able to stay in a pretty low one.  But I'm running out of
>>> places and ways to expand so that's going to change.  We'll pay less taxes
>>> when we have two smaller entities in smaller brackets.  At least that's the
>>> way I understand it now
>>>
>>> One of the really great things about a sole proprietorship is asset
>>> management.  We can take old computers home all day and it's no big deal.
>>> Just move it.  If it's something owned by the corp we have to somehow
>>> transfer that product.  More paperwork etc.
>>>
>>> Another thing a person has to be very careful with is who owns what.  Mom
>>> and Dad own a large farm.  Thousands and thousands of acres, mostly
>>> irrigated.  Back when their corp got formed all of the assets were put into
>>> the corp.  Now that they want to sell the farm they have to somehow make
>>> nearly twice as much because they'll be double taxed at the time of the
>>> sale.  There will be income tax at the corp level AND capital gains at the
>>> personal level.  Or some such similar mess.  Basically when they sell 50% or
>>> so will to go taxes.  Unless they can sell the corp it's self which is
>>> something no one wants to buy.  People only want the assets, otherwise they
>>> end up with the same long term tax mess.  It's also nearly impossible to
>>> gift enough assets back to themselves or their kids to make a difference.
>>>
>>> Both sole owner and corp have their places.  The choices are not REALLY as
>>> simple as some people try to make them out.  And how they get structured
>>> over the long run is very important yet almost no one ever goes to a lawyer
>>> that specializes in such things for advice on the best type of corp to form
>>> and how to run it from day one.  Many things get done just because that's
>>> they way it is, even if there is a better way..  I still look at my
>>> avoidance of routing cpe.  The reasons I liked bridging cpe have proven to
>>> be very true (radios are inflexible crappy routers) but the benefits have
>>> been wonderful anyway.  It's something I wish I'd have listened to others on
>>> years and years ago.  Human nature I guess.  I am listening to the experts
>>> on tax matters though.  grin
>>>
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "George Rogato" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:38 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding
>>> /Financing / Capital Availability
>>>
>>>
>>>> Unless you actually make a decent salary.
>>>> When your a sole proprietor you have to pay the self employment tax.
>>>> Self employment tax is matching social security payments.
>>>> You pay both the individual ss tax and as well as the employer

Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

[George Rogato]

Yeah, my accountant told me a story about one of his un named clients 
who was previously part of a corp . Turns out there was a lawsuit 
against a corporation that had filed for bk protection a couple years 
earlier.

The person filing the lawsuit wanted to see the corporate minutes for 
the now defunct corporation to see if they were done on a regular basis.

What they were after is, was it a real corporation that held directors 
meetings on a regular basis and kept minutes.

if not, then the corporation would in fact  be considered an illegal 
corporation and the shareholders would then be considered sole 
proprietors and the corporations bk would be over turned, leaving them 
open to that lawsuit. More so than exposing the share holders to that 
type of liability, the share holders, now sole proprietor or partners 
would have also filed false tax returns and would be subject to all 
those unpaid taxes and penalties interest etc.

A can of worms indeed, when not done right.



Travis Johnson wrote:
> I understand the corporate structure and how it works. I also know that 
> if you follow all the proper corporate bylaws, they can NOT break the 
> corporate barrier. Yes, they will try and list each person individually, 
> but if you have a good attorney, that is a simple motion to get the 
> individuals removed (been there, done that).
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> It can be done a lot cheaper.  But we work hard to do it right not cheap 
>> these days.
>>
>> And the corporate veil isn't as strong as it used to be.  If your company 
>> screws up the officers (that's you) will be named on any suit these days too.
>>
>> marlon
>>
>>   - Original Message - 
>>   From: Travis Johnson 
>>   To: WISPA General List 
>>   Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:53 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
>>
>>
>>   Huh? We incorporated in 1997 and I think total cost was less than $500. 
>> How do you ever expect to get away from having to do personal guarantees if 
>> you don't operate like a "real" business?
>>
>>   Travis
>>   Microserv
>>
>>   Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 
>> One more thing.  I don't agree with your definitions per se'.
>>
>> We all have businesses.  A proprietorship is a TYPE of business.  We are a 
>> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and 
>> expensive to do right).  I'm still a business though
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset
>>
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Charles Wu" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
>>
>>
>>   Hi Marlon,
>>
>> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on 
>> things so everyone is on the same page
>>
>> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define
>>
>> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood 
>> or profit
>>
>> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and 
>> codifies a specific method of proprietorship
>>
>> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, 
>> brand, marketing, etc
>>
>> Grin.  Sure it is.  That's what a LOT of small business people do.  It's
>> also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc  Sometimes it
>> sucks,
>>   Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, 
>> and 
>> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth 
>> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets
>>
>> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have 
>> of value?  His truck?  Some old tools?  A customer list / brand perhaps 
>> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because 
>> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those 
>> customers would probably go back to being on the open market)
>>
>> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth 
>> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation 
>> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the 
>> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, 
>> this is akin to real-estate
>>
>> Not
>> everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every
>> business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money 
>> they
>> made was when it was just them, no employees..)  But then again, 
>> that's
>> one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and
>> flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator 
>> dreams
>> to bear fuit!
>>   True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has 
>> value 
>> (be happy we're not plumbers =)
>>
>> 

Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability

[George Rogato]

Unless you actually make a decent salary.
When your a sole proprietor you have to pay the self employment tax.
Self employment tax is matching social security payments.
You pay both the individual ss tax and as well as the employers 
contribution which comes to about double.

If you were incorporated and you were an employee, which you would be, 
you could collect half your pay in salary and the other half in 
dividends, or 1/4 in salary and 3/4 in dividends (which yields a deeper 
tax break)

Dividends are not subject to the 2nd half of the contributing tax or the 
self employment tax, never mind workers comp, state unemployment, etc.

For those that rant and rave against the big bad government and their 
unreasonable taxes (count me in), then it's foolish to voluntarily pay 
what is not required of you.

But to all those that do go ahead and pay the extra not required ss tax, 
My family and all the rest of those who will someday collect ss in our 
golden years thank you for being so generous as paying this extra 
voluntary tax to help insure the solvency of ss so it will be there when 
we retire as well as give the government even more money to borrow 
against so they can spend even more tax dollars that really aren't there.

Also, if you have a good cpa, they tell you this stuff when they do your 
income taxes.

a cpa is not a tax preparer or a book keeper.







RickG wrote:
> Makes sense to me...thanks! -RickG
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer  
> wrote:
>> Let me get my accountant wife to answer that one.  Here's Melissa
>>
>> Well, for us it's not yet in our best interest to incorporate.  Sometimes
>> the reason for incorporating is to help insulate the individual from a
>> lawsuit - but usually if the corp is sued, they also sue the owner of the
>> corp.  I agree with you about the S-Corp - the income from an S-Corp is
>> picked up on your personal return so there aren't usually as many advantages
>> when doing tax planning.  We have not incorporated because the cost of being
>> a corp (accounting, legal, another set of books, more time on Melissa's part
>> to work on the books...) is greater to us right now than the benefits.  I
>> see it as something that we will probably need to do in the future as our
>> income increases and we need to do more tax planning.  Hope that helps.
>> Melissa
>>
>> There ya have it!
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "RickG" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:02 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding
>> /Financing / Capital Availability
>>
>>
>> Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for
>> myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the WISP
>> business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an "S-Corp". After
>> filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more
>> advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all
>> advise I receive.
>> Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What
>> benefits have you found by remaining so?
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
>>  wrote:
>>> One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'.
>>>
>>> We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a
>>> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated
>>> and
>>> expensive to do right). I'm still a business though
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset
>>>
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Charles Wu" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital
>>> Availability
>>>
>>>
 Hi Marlon,

 I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on
 things so everyone is on the same page

 Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define

 Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood
 or profit

 Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and
 codifies a specific method of proprietorship

 Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts,
 brand, marketing, etc

> Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's
> also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it
> sucks,
 Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and
 in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth
 anything more than the depreciated value of its assets

 Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have
 of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps
 (but the reality of th

Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

[George Rogato]

What I'm trying to do is not use an expensive high quality ip cams. A 
couple years ago I did a cam job using a Sony. When I was researching 
the project I talked to a guy that does cams for a living.

He said, for the money you spend on an ip cam, you could get a lot of 
non ip cams.

I don't know very much about cameras, figured there is some experts here 
on the list that can help educate me-us.



D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> I am using Mobotix for cameras. The DVR software is free. Or the cams  
> can perform the DVR function. Hit me offlist and I can give you a link  
> to 2 I just put up out of 22 for a small city.
> 
> 
> ryan
> 
> 
> On Jun 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, George Rogato wrote:
> 
>> Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?
>>
>> I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

[George Rogato]

Hi Jeremy

Have you tried the Bosch and you like it?

Do you remember the price you paid by chance?



Jeremy Parr wrote:
> I've had reasonably good luck with Axis IP Megapixel cams, and OnSSI
> DVR software. Bosch has a nice line of traditional cameras, and their
> DVRs are hybrid, allowing the addition of IP cameras.
> 
> On 6/1/09, D. Ryan Spott  wrote:
>> I am using Mobotix for cameras. The DVR software is free. Or the cams
>> can perform the DVR function. Hit me offlist and I can give you a link
>> to 2 I just put up out of 22 for a small city.
>>
>>
>> ryan
>>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, George Rogato wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?
>>>
>>> I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

[George Rogato]

Thanks Ryan, I have a Mobotix cam. I'm not looking for ip cams.
Looking for traditional cams.

I just used one of these:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4442425&sku=L350-0013

I kinda like it, except it uses quicktime for the streaming.




D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> I am using Mobotix for cameras. The DVR software is free. Or the cams  
> can perform the DVR function. Hit me offlist and I can give you a link  
> to 2 I just put up out of 22 for a small city.
> 
> 
> ryan
> 
> 
> On Jun 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, George Rogato wrote:
> 
>> Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?
>>
>> I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] DVR experience

[George Rogato]

Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?

I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.

Thanks





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Ethernet Cabling

[George Rogato]

Thats a good comparison Tom.
Couple things I should note, which I thought about after I posted.
I live in the Pac North West, not the South West, Arizona Nevada or 
Texas. I'm not sure blue cat 5 would stand up in outdoor situations 
there when it is exposed to the hellacious sunlight there.
And when I run my cat 5 I try my best to hide it so it looks good. Like 
on the underside of eves and the backside of the fascia board, behind 
down spouts and gutters. those places do not generally get much sunlight.
And it's rare that I do an exposed roof run.

I really can only comment on my experience. I'm sure things are 
different in other parts of the country.


Tom DeReggi wrote:
> You made a good point that regular CAT5 actually can last quite a while, if 
> someone wanted to use it.
> And the cheapest if they wanted to use PVC, at $60 a spool/box.
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Ethernet Cabling

[George Rogato]

My experience living in the rainy pacific northwest is, regular old blue 
or grey cat 5 cable has lasted all the 10 years I've been doing this. I 
use it on all my houses and buildings.

White cat 5 does not work outdoors and deteriorates quickly. Should be 
no surprise.

Up a tower I use an a cable that is flooded and has an aluminum 
sheath-tube over the inner cat 5 cable.
I've bought it for .17 and .25 per foot from an electrical supplier. I 
like this stuff better than the typical armored gopher cable.

One thing for certain working with cables is it's always a learnig 
experience and as time goes on we seem to always find better techniques.
Call it the school of hard knocks.

Working with rootennas and those ethernet pass throughs, I've learned to 
  tape them up like an n male connector and to actually fold the cat 5 
cable to under the passthrough and tape it in place there.

Fixing water damaged connections is not a pleasant experience for me.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] clues for vendors

[George Rogato]

Yeppers, it is truly an indication of the vendors lack of respect for 
our intelligence that makes a vendor assume we are clueless enough to 
buy their un priced pitch.





John Bates wrote:
> You are definitely not alone. Sometimes it makes sense to partner with a
> vendor, whether it's preferred pricing, bulk financing, or even branding
> opportunities that they offer. I get the same calls and emails from vendors
> and am left wondering what kind of strategy they are applying in their sales
> departments to not answer my information requests and provide me with
> responses full of canned marketing trash (spam) and surveys that are
> irrelevant in satisfying my requirements.
>
> John Bates
> President
> WHISPr Networks
>   





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[George Rogato]

cell over wifi.

Your right T mobile is not an option.

It's ATT.

You would think the cell carriers would have a combo sip cell phone that 
when their service is not in range, the phone could connect to a wifi ap 
and connect back to the cell companies service via sip.

Thats what I'm looking for. I noticed some phones do this but with 
skype, android I think, just was hoping there was news I hadn't heard 
that says they have such a phone.



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> Not sure what you mean with cell over wifi since you discarded the tmobile 
> phones. They have their hots...@home phones (UMA) which will and can take 
> advantage of a wifi AP and give you coverage where you might not have any or 
> with the $19.95 monthly gives you unlimited UMA calls. In my house there is 
> not a single carrier that gives any coverage worth much unless you like to 
> stand in one place with phone at specific angle and do some magic tricks at 
> the same times. But with the a hots...@home phone from T-Mobile I have now 
> perfect coverage at home.  
> 
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: George Rogato 
> 
> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:28:25 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>> If you have Asterisk you just opened up nearly any Wifi phone to your
>> system.  SIP is so universal...
>>
>>   
> 
> Yeah, I have not been keeping up with cell phones. My own is 5years 
> old...doesn't even have a camera or display caller id on the outside of 
> the phone ;(
> 
> A client was telling me he heard there was a cell phone that when not in 
> range of the cell service could connect to ANYONES wifi.
> Hadn't heard that, seen the phones with skype and the t mobile cells, 
> but not cell over voip.
> 
> Which is why I asked here.
> 
> So I take it there is no cell phone service that works off wifi as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[George Rogato]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> If you have Asterisk you just opened up nearly any Wifi phone to your
> system.  SIP is so universal...
>
>   

Yeah, I have not been keeping up with cell phones. My own is 5years 
old...doesn't even have a camera or display caller id on the outside of 
the phone ;(

A client was telling me he heard there was a cell phone that when not in 
range of the cell service could connect to ANYONES wifi.
Hadn't heard that, seen the phones with skype and the t mobile cells, 
but not cell over voip.

Which is why I asked here.

So I take it there is no cell phone service that works off wifi as well?





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[George Rogato]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> Nokia e71 is always unlocked AFAIK (I have never seen a locked one)
>
> You use the existing SIM card and get on that GSM network
>
> The SIP client connects to his Asterisk server, mine to my M6, your
> situation may be different...
>
>   
Thanks
I have an * box myself




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[George Rogato]

Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
> I have had a series of Nokia phones will use Wi-Fi thru its built-in SIP
> client directly to my office Asterisk and have been doing that for several
> years.  The E71 I have now is FAR superior to the earlier models in terms
> of Wi-Fi sensitivity.  I use it in conferences overseas...Europe and
> Brazil and Mexico for free US calling.  It works very well and I leave it
> on during the shows and my office can call me with the 4-digit Asterisk
> extension.  There's a Skype for it and the iPhone, too.
>
> . . . J o n a t h a n
>
>   
So the Nokia E71 does cell and sip?
Is this ATT?

Also, do you buy the phone and use existing cell phone card in that 
phone and it just works?

My original question is for one of my clients, but this phone might be 
something I want.

George





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[George Rogato]

Is there a cell phone that can connect to someones wifi ap and still 
make phone calls or recieve data when not in range of the cell service?

Thanks





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

[George Rogato]

In Oregon the filing costs is nothing to incorporate.
Of course a lawyer will charge what they will to fill out the forms.

One thing the sole proprietor is missing out on not being an s or c corp 
is the tax benefit associated with social security.
Of course thee is more work to be a corporation, but there is also a tax 
savings as well.



Travis Johnson wrote:
> Huh? We incorporated in 1997 and I think total cost was less than $500. 
> How do you ever expect to get away from having to do personal guarantees 
> if you don't operate like a "real" business?
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> One more thing.  I don't agree with your definitions per se'.
>>
>> We all have businesses.  A proprietorship is a TYPE of business.  We are a 
>> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and 
>> expensive to do right).  I'm still a business though
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset
>>
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Charles Wu" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
>>
>>
>>   
>>> Hi Marlon,
>>>
>>> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on 
>>> things so everyone is on the same page
>>>
>>> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define
>>>
>>> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood 
>>> or profit
>>>
>>> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and 
>>> codifies a specific method of proprietorship
>>>
>>> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, 
>>> brand, marketing, etc
>>>
>>> 
 Grin.  Sure it is.  That's what a LOT of small business people do.  It's
 also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc  Sometimes it
 sucks,
   
>>> Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and 
>>> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth 
>>> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets
>>>
>>> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have 
>>> of value?  His truck?  Some old tools?  A customer list / brand perhaps 
>>> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because 
>>> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those 
>>> customers would probably go back to being on the open market)
>>>
>>> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth 
>>> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation 
>>> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the 
>>> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, 
>>> this is akin to real-estate
>>>
>>> 
 Not
 everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every
 business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money 
 they
 made was when it was just them, no employees..)  But then again, 
 that's
 one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and
 flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator 
 dreams
 to bear fuit!
   
>>> True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value 
>>> (be happy we're not plumbers =)
>>>
>>> -Charles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
>>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

[George Rogato]

Travis Johnson wrote:
>  but we are putting the cash flow money into other things... like real 
> estate, that is dirt cheap right now... ;)
Thats what we did in Novemeber.
Got a 500k property for about 325k .
And got the owner to carry 90% @ 6% on an 8 year term. Not much interest 
to pay, just a heavy monthly payment.
But, I hope the market turns around so I can sell, get my profit and 
principle back so I can plow fiber  into my infrastructure.






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps

[George Rogato]

For sure congress doesn't have much of a clue. But the FCC understands 
very well.

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> I don't want to seem like a chronic complainer as I usually do on the WISPA 
> listbut this has been my SPEW all along for years! The FCC and Washington 
> have NO Intelligible IDEA  about Internet Technology and how it works! Out of 
> most of our House and Senate reps, I bet 90% do not even know how to operate 
> a PC...they hire "underlings" to do that and the "underlings" try to tell 
> them what they need to know.
> 
> One thing I agree with Obama on, is he is setting up a technology committee. 
> I hope they know WTF they are talking about...maybe finally!
> 
> Scott 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Thu, 21 May 2009 17:20:10 -0400
> 
>> People read the comments, its scary, like this one...
>>
>>
>> "Internet providing is like having an infinite tank of free water. ISP's pay
>> for the pipes to get it to your house. You pay them based on the size of the
>> pipe. Now they want to charge you based on the amount of free water you use
>> each month. Does that seem logical or fair?"
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Matt
>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM
>> To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
>>
>> Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot
>> impose download caps as well.
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost
>>
>> Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric,
>> gas, telephone and etc.
>>
>> Wispa really should officially comment on this bill.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> ---
>> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>>
>>
> 
> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth.
> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Customers are great

[George Rogato]

Glad you said MOST, my experience over the years, is there is a Zillion 
"Business People", but not that many that stay in business for very 
long. They are the 92% crowd.



Rick Kunze wrote:
> On 5/20/2009 2:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>> Even if that figure was pulled from thin air it is so easily
>> believable.  How sad is that?!
> 
> 
> 
> Conversely, MOST business owners have common sense.  I wonder what the 
> ratio is for politicians?
> 
> Rk  <- ducking for cover!
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Monowall and Microsoft Vista machines

[George Rogato]

Steve Barnes wrote:
  I just
> found that MoNowall is a FreeBSD Firewall.  Good luck with that.
> 
> Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service

FreeBSD is well supported and quite popular. We use BSD for quite a bit 
of stuff. Mainly servers, but also routers.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Fiber/Copper Combo Wire

[George Rogato]

Or a person could buy a set of up down transformers to increase the 
voltage going up the tower to avoid voltage drop.

Of course, running 110 up to the top is probably easier.

Jack Unger wrote:
> You have the best solution - regulating at the top. Otherwise, as you 
> state, the voltage at the top will go up when the current load goes 
> down. The voltage at the top will go down when the current load goes up. 
> MUCH better to regulate at the top...
> 
> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I'd worry about what would happen as the load varies, specifically if  
>> the load gets substantially less which could lead to the device  
>> getting overloaded. I'd rather sent up something unregulated and  
>> regulate it at the top.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On May 8, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Kevin Neal wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> So..what about this...get an adjustable voltage power supply.   
>>> Install the
>>> RG6 or whatever coax/wire would handle the load/distance.  Adjust the
>>> voltage with a meter up top so that you have ~24-28v at your  
>>> equipment?
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> 
> < all previous content "peached" 'cuz we were out of prunes>
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] OT, IE is allowing strange things

[George Rogato]

Gary Garrett wrote:
> Its your IP address. The same way the Porno ads show you all those 
> fantastic looking women in "Naples Idaho".
> Hell I have lived here 35 years and if even one of them really lived 
> here I would have hit on them long ago!!!
> 

That was funny Gary



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs

[George Rogato]

Your mean Bob, no music :(


Bob Moldashel wrote:
> Honestly I find it best to do it first thing Monday AM before they get in. 
> 
> Then they can't check e-mail and the secretaries can't listen to online 
> music, go to Facebook or do IM and it suddenly becomes an urgent issue.
> 
> Great to play the office staff against management.  :-)
> 
> -B-
> 
> 
> 
> George Rogato wrote:
>> :)
>>
>> Actually I have a high regard for my customers, it's the ones that try 
>> to game me that invokes nasty thoughts.
>>
>> One trick I have learned over the years, if you turn a sub off and 
>> "expect to get paid" make sure they get turned off during business hours 
>> so they can call in and make arrangements to pay up.
>> Otherwise they may be gone by the time business opens and you will never 
>> see any money.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Moldashel wrote:
>>   
>>> George Rogato wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Weeds out the broke dead beat cheap skates.
>>>>   
>>>>   
>>> Careful George.  I called a customer a loser and got tarred and 
>>> feathered .   :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>> Thats the pool who most likely will not pay.
>>>>
>>>> My broadband customers all paid little extra to have my service and 
>>>> those types pay their bills on time.
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>   
>>>>> I've had moderate success just making a personal visit to see how the 
>>>>> people 
>>>>> are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> If they're out of a job and no income, we cut the bandwidth way down and 
>>>>> suspend billing for a while.   If internet can help them get a job, then 
>>>>> it's in our interest to do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally, we have pretty good success with a personal visit.   I'm not 
>>>>> confrontational, but explain that we really do expect to be paid and the 
>>>>> customer's generally pretty good at paying when they see it as a matter 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> personal importance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than that, we've not found that notes, or emails works well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>>> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM
>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on.
>>>>>> It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months.  Do you just
>>>>>> cut your losses and move on or what do you do?  I'm contemplating small
>>>>>> claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees
>>>>>> per person.  We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never
>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Hogg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shelby Broadband
>>>>>> 502-722-9292
>>>>>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>>> http://list

Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs

[George Rogato]

:)

Actually I have a high regard for my customers, it's the ones that try 
to game me that invokes nasty thoughts.

One trick I have learned over the years, if you turn a sub off and 
"expect to get paid" make sure they get turned off during business hours 
so they can call in and make arrangements to pay up.
Otherwise they may be gone by the time business opens and you will never 
see any money.




Bob Moldashel wrote:
> George Rogato wrote:
>> Weeds out the broke dead beat cheap skates.
>>   
> 
> Careful George.  I called a customer a loser and got tarred and 
> feathered .   :-)
> 
> 
>> Thats the pool who most likely will not pay.
>>
>> My broadband customers all paid little extra to have my service and 
>> those types pay their bills on time.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>   
>>> I've had moderate success just making a personal visit to see how the 
>>> people 
>>> are doing.
>>>
>>> If they're out of a job and no income, we cut the bandwidth way down and 
>>> suspend billing for a while.   If internet can help them get a job, then 
>>> it's in our interest to do this.
>>>
>>> Generally, we have pretty good success with a personal visit.   I'm not 
>>> confrontational, but explain that we really do expect to be paid and the 
>>> customer's generally pretty good at paying when they see it as a matter of 
>>> personal importance.
>>>
>>> Other than that, we've not found that notes, or emails works well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>> I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on.
>>>> It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months.  Do you just
>>>> cut your losses and move on or what do you do?  I'm contemplating small
>>>> claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees
>>>> per person.  We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never
>>>> happened.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Hogg
>>>>
>>>> Shelby Broadband
>>>> 502-722-9292
>>>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>>>>
>>>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
>>>>   
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>  
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> 
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs

[George Rogato]

We work with people too. But I don't go visit them. I have the shop do 
the calling, Only thing I do is go get my stuff back.
Only one time did anyone ever give me the trespassing story and that was 
a guy who was hoping to hold it ransom for some kind of a refund.
It's a a gray area

Been pretty lucky that we have not had many bad broadband subs. Dial up, 
we had every scammer dead beat and whiner in our town at one time or 
another.

I think what separated this, was the higher cost to turn on my broadband 
service.

Weeds out the broke dead beat cheap skates.

Thats the pool who most likely will not pay.

My broadband customers all paid little extra to have my service and 
those types pay their bills on time.

George


rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
> I've had moderate success just making a personal visit to see how the people 
> are doing.
> 
> If they're out of a job and no income, we cut the bandwidth way down and 
> suspend billing for a while.   If internet can help them get a job, then 
> it's in our interest to do this.
> 
> Generally, we have pretty good success with a personal visit.   I'm not 
> confrontational, but explain that we really do expect to be paid and the 
> customer's generally pretty good at paying when they see it as a matter of 
> personal importance.
> 
> Other than that, we've not found that notes, or emails works well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
> 
> 
>> I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on.
>> It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months.  Do you just
>> cut your losses and move on or what do you do?  I'm contemplating small
>> claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees
>> per person.  We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked.
>>
>>
>>
>> We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never
>> happened.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck Hogg
>>
>> Shelby Broadband
>> 502-722-9292
>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>>
>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Sector separation/isolation

[George Rogato]

Agreed, I do not think it is possible to have three sectors on a tower 
that don't see each other.

Unless of course it's on a large water tank and the water tank is 
blocking the signals.

There should not be a problem with sectors that see or hear each other, 
as long as the sectors are not overlapping channel wise.

If the chip is bleeding over, like ch 6 actually bleeding into channel 
10 and channel 3, then you need to buy a notch filter.
Some wireless cards are bad in that regard.



Josh Luthman wrote:
> Just because an antenna is pointed east does not nothinh bleeds west
> of the antenna.
> 
> If you don't want them to see each other you'll want a good 10 foot
> difference (vertically).
> 
> On 5/3/09, Michael Baird  wrote:
>> Yes, I tried the 10mhz/5mhz channel widths, per recommendation, the AP's
>> still saw each other at similar signal strengths (w/antenna). I will see
>> if I can check the rest of the stuff, there is no vertical separation
>> either as another recommended, the antennas themselves are at least 20
>> foot apart. They are on 3 sides of a water tower, with the water tower
>> in between. I didn't install the equipment and haven't been up on the
>> tower, so I can't say firsthand how it has been installed. Can you give
>> me a rundown of how it should be installed, so I can know what to look
>> for. Defective antenna is an idea though, they are Tranzeo 120's, the
>> sectorization barely works at distance. I can see all 3 AP's at each
>> sector 7 miles away, can peer with two of them, associate with all 3, I
>> think this is wrong. I think I should only see one, unless I'm at the
>> overlap point.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>> The problem of the APs seeing each other could be due to unusually
>>> high signal leakage (defective antenna, coax, enclosure etc resulting
>>> in poor shielding/signal leakage). If that's the case the equipment
>>> should be performing better than it is (less mutual interference) and
>>> for some reason it's not. You'd have to investigate and/or swap out
>>> gear to find the problem.
>>>
>>> Or is it that the equipment and install are all good and this is
>>> normal due to the proximity? If it's proximity then physical
>>> separation and/or frequency separation is the only thing that will
>>> help, hence the suggestion of using narrower channels and moving the
>>> antennas from previous posts.
>>>
>>> Did you try going to 10 MHz channels?
>>>
>>> Can you disconnect the antenna and put dummy loads on the ends of the
>>> coax and see how strong the APs can see each other? If the problem
>>> goes away then it's either a) defective antennas with too much leakage
>>> or side/rear lobes) or b) antenna proximity.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On May 3, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Michael Baird wrote:
>>>
>>>
 I think I didn't explain my problem clearly. 10mhz/5mhz channel sep
 makes no difference on how each AP see's each other on a site survey
 on
 the tower.  I want to isolate the sectors from each other in a better
 way, they are too hot to each other and too much overlap. I was
 looking
 for  good ways to do it, I have no noise problems to clients, and my
 channels on the 3 AP's are 1/6/11, none overlapping, and all with -100
 noise floor's.

 Regards
 Michael Baird

> Right now channel 1 uses channel 1, 2 and 3.  Channel 6 uses 4-8.
> When
> you go to 10MHz channels 1 will use 1 and  2.  6 will use 5, 6 and 7.
> Therefore, you are no longer on adjacent channels, there is a gap of
> channels 3 and 4 between.
> Also, you will cut down on the amount of other noise you hear because
> you listen to only half as much spectrum.
> And, you will have more effective power so noise may be less of a
> problem.
>
> I am sure there are some RF savvy folks out there that can explain it
> better.
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>
>
>> I can try that, can you tell me why that would make a difference
>> though
>> with the AP's seeing each other at such signal levels? Will
>> changing to
>> 10mhz channel width's cause the AP's to see each other at a lower
>> RSSI?
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>>
>>> Use 10mhz channels instead of 20mhz.
>>>
>>> Kurt Fankhauser
>>> WAVELINC
>>> P.O. Box 126
>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>>> 419-562-6405
>>> www.wavelinc.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:54 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Sector separation/isolation
>>>
>>> We are still experimenting with aligning sector's on our towers.
>>> We are
>>> attempting to use 3 120 degree/13db/6.5 vb/7 degree downtilt,
>>> antennas
>>> to cover 360 degrees. I just inspected the towers myself, and
>>> n

Re: [WISPA] RB333/433 eliminating self-interference test

[George Rogato]

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Good point but. the problem went away when the mcpi cards each had their 
> own SBC/Case, this would infer card to card or pigtail to pigtail 
> interference, since in all cases the dummy load was outside the cases, from 
> what it sounds like.  
>
> I guess that should be clarified
>
> Kurt, when you tested with teh RB600 and 3 cards on the adjacent slots, was 
> the RB600 also in a case with the holes metal taped?
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>   

Question I have that should debunk that theory that cards in close 
proximity interfere with each other. Why do the cards not interfere with 
each other when there is additional gain antennas hooked on to them?

You would think there would be even more self interference with high 
gain antennas than with no antennas




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] affordable 2.4 GHz repeaters

[George Rogato]

No body has mentioned Star-Os, or Lucaya.

Here's a link:

http://www.staros.com/store/datasheets/Au400.pdf

The 2 ports are about 200.00 and the 4 ports are about 400.00

And they are fcc certified units.


Jerry Richardson wrote:
> EOC-3220's seem to work pretty well for us.
>  
> Went to the NanoStations due to cost. then Engenius knocked it off, but
> we are prety happy with the Nanos
>  
>  
>  
>  
> __ 
> Jerry Richardson 
> airCloud Communications
>  
> 
> 
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blair Davis
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] affordable 2.4 GHz repeaters
> 
> 
> I have a NanoStation running as an AP right now.
> 
> Works fine, but the lack of AP type tools like sig streanth, client list
> and so on make it very hard to use.  
> 
> I'll be switching it out for a MikroTik soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman wrote: 
> 
>   I would avoid Engenius.  Heard a lot of good things abot the
> Ubnt
>   stuff, especially the bullet.
>   
>   On 4/25/09, Jerry Richardson 
>   wrote:
> 
> 
>   Engenius and ubiquity
>   
>   Jerry Richardson
>   airCloud Communications
>   Sent from mobile device
>   
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Rogelio 
>  
>   Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:21 PM
>   To: WISPA General List 
>  
>   Subject: [WISPA] affordable 2.4 GHz repeaters
>   
>   I've got a situation where I need some lower end
> affordable 2.4 GHz
>   repeaters, and the itch can't really be scratched with a
> customer CPE
>   device (such as a Ruckus or Tranzeo).
>   
>   Anyone have any 2.4 GHz repeaters that they can
> recommend?  There won't
>   be many people connecting in that area, so I'm not
> really worried about
>   collision.  Ideally, this might be something I'd put
> outside.
>   
>   
>   
> 
> 
>   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>   http://signup.wispa.org/
>   
> 
> 
>   
>   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>   
>   Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>   http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>   
>   Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   
>   
>   
> 
> 
>   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>   http://signup.wispa.org/
>   
> 
> 
>   
>   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>   
>   Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>   http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>   
>   Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   
>   
> 
>   
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Clearwire being sued for poor service, ETFs

[George Rogato]

I don't think this hurts anyone. Nobody hardly knows about this and 
there is lots of lawsuites.
One of my customers has been sued twice now because she owns an elder 
care facility that caters to alzhiemers and dimensia folks who's family 
can no longer care for them.
Both suites are My Mother died in your facility because you didn't care 
for her with attendent on a 24/7 basis.

Reality, the family can't care for them either and there is no one on 
one 24 hour  day a week facility.

And they were at deaths door which is why they are there, but just the 
same a lawyer has the people suing for the loss of a loved one, because 
maybe if they posted a nurse 24/7 at your moms side she would not have 
died as quick. Stupid frivilous lawsuites.

Getting back to Clearwire. I have met several people who have it and 
like it. It's on par with cheap dsl and works well for some.
So, they are making hay. I don't think they are a scam, just a very 
sophisticated game plan, they got sprint on their side. maybe soon it 
will sprint wire or clear sprint.

Who knows, but I would hate for people to have false sense of security. 
I think they will be around a long time.



Scott Carullo wrote:
> I disagree with your assessment but to each his own...
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>  Original Message 
>   
>> From: "David E. Smith" 
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:41 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Clearwire being sued for poor service, ETFs
>>
>> Scott Carullo wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Thats good news for us...   It was obvious long ago this was a "take 
>>>   
> the 
>   
>>> investors money and run" mission
>>>   
>> You have an interesting definition of "good news."
>>
>> Anyone who sees this story (and I found it on consumerist.com, not an 
>> industry source) will just see "wireless = unreliable and bad." 
>> Obviously there are about a thousand technical distinctions between 
>> their service and most of ours (different gear, different spectrum, and 
>> of course everyone on this list does their own thing in a different 
>> way), but all that will be glossed over, if it's mentioned at all, by 
>> any mainstream press outlets that report on this.
>>
>> One big wireless provider may have shot the rest of us in the feet, and 
>> I forgot to wear the steel-toed boots today.
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
>> 
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] fiber termination

[George Rogato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tnh0V81pLk&NR=1

Takes the voodoo black magic away from fiber termination.
So easy a caveman can do it.

George

George Rogato wrote:
> We just terminated some fiber we put in. Used hot melt and hand polished 
> the the fiber.
> It took no more than an hour to do 6 strands on each end. Maube 1 1/2 hour.
> Not sure which connectors you are using, but those can be expensive as 
> well. I think we must have paid about 15.00 per connctor.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> Scott Carullo wrote:
>> Never heard of 5 strand but ok
>>
>> 10 ends maybe 20 each
>> 1 tech an hour each end
>>
>> Maybe 350 + or minus 50
>>
>> That's without termination boxes - media converters etc
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> (321) 205-1100 x102
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:16 PM, chris cooper   
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anybody have an idea how much I should expect to pay per
>>> termination to terminate 5 strands of multimode fiber?  The fiber is
>>> already pulled into the racks, someone would just need to terminate  
>>> the
>>> ends.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Chris Cooper
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] fiber termination

[George Rogato]

We just terminated some fiber we put in. Used hot melt and hand polished 
the the fiber.
It took no more than an hour to do 6 strands on each end. Maube 1 1/2 hour.
Not sure which connectors you are using, but those can be expensive as 
well. I think we must have paid about 15.00 per connctor.

George


Scott Carullo wrote:
> Never heard of 5 strand but ok
> 
> 10 ends maybe 20 each
> 1 tech an hour each end
> 
> Maybe 350 + or minus 50
> 
> That's without termination boxes - media converters etc
> 
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> (321) 205-1100 x102
> 
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:16 PM, chris cooper   
> wrote:
> 
>> Does anybody have an idea how much I should expect to pay per
>> termination to terminate 5 strands of multimode fiber?  The fiber is
>> already pulled into the racks, someone would just need to terminate  
>> the
>> ends.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Chris Cooper
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[George Rogato]

Butch Evans wrote:
 > This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.

Maybe for you Butch, but I am thinking this was a very useful and 
informative thread and I hate to see someone stifled because of one mans 
disdain.

We should all be able to discuss and hash things out without worrying we 
are going to offend anyone. We are after all, professionals here.

George



> On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 22:02 -0400, mlio...@r337.com wrote:
>> MetroConnect's SEC filings state they had $2k of cash on hand. Since that
>> time MetroConnect's revenue has declined each quarter and now they state
>> their cash on hand is $0.
> 
> This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.  If you want to argue petty
> points, do so OFFLIST.  If you wish to provide information that is
> useful, then please do so.  
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[George Rogato]

Not sure about load balancing, as for policy routing, thats easy. We do 
that with a bsd box.
I would assume all the routers, imagestream, MT, Star, Cisco, etc etc.
can handle various wans with policy routing. We just haven't done our 
router upgrade yet and handle ours on an older bsd box.

George

Alan Long wrote:
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
> with gear to handle this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations 
> 
> Aerowire
>  
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830 
> 
> 
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net 
> 
> 
> tel: 
> mobile: 
> 
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> 
>   Want a
> signature like this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] [Board] FW: Tranzeo Cleaning out the Cupboards Sale

[George Rogato]

Yeah, and I recall, when asked why Tranzeo didn't want to help support 
wisps at wispa, they pretty much laughed and said they couldn't see any 
reason to support us.

George

John Scrivner wrote:
> As far as I am concerned this is spam. Tranzeo is NOT a paid vendor
> member of WISPA and as such gets no free ads here. Even if they were a
> member this is not how approved ads are sent to our list membership.
> Please refrain from sending out vendor ads to our list without board
> approval.
> Thank you,
> John Scrivner
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Jerry Richardson
>  wrote:
>> Dear Valued Customer,
>>
>>
>>
>> Tranzeo went through the cupboards and did some spring cleaning. We have
>> the following surplus stock of NEW radios and are offering them at an
>> incredible one time Savings to you DIRECT from our factory. (These
>> radios will not be offered through the distributor Channel).
>>
>> Item
>>
>> One-Time Price
>>
>> # Available
>>
>> TR-900-N
>>
>>  $199.00
>>
>> 84
>>
>> TR-6000
>>
>>  $106.00
>>
>> 60
>>
>> TR-5a-N
>>
>>  $112.00
>>
>>43
>>
>> TR-5800
>>
>>  $125.00
>>
>> 42
>>
>> TR-CPQ-N
>>
>>  $ 98.00
>>
>> 40
>>
>> TR-SL5-N
>>
>>  $109.00
>>
>>240
>>
>> TR-6619
>>
>>  $165.00
>>
>>124
>>
>> TR-CPE90-15
>>
>>  $ 79.00
>>
>> 21
>>
>> TR-5amp-N
>>
>>  $300.00
>>
>> 18
>>
>> TR-5amp-24
>>
>>  $300.00
>>
>> 14
>>
>> TR-SL5-16
>>
>>  $109.00
>>
>> 18
>>
>> TR-5amp-24
>>
>>  $300.00
>>
>> 10
>>
>> TR-6500
>>
>>  $300.00
>>
>>   9
>>
>> TR-5amp-N
>>
>>  $300.00
>>
>> 15
>>
>> TR-5a-24
>>
>>  $154.00
>>
>>   6
>>
>> TR-5plus-20
>>
>>  $192.00
>>
>> 70
>>
>> TR-CPQ-N
>>
>>  $ 98.00
>>
>>   3
>>
>> EL-500ag / TR-24H-120-13
>>
>>  $250.00
>>
>>113
>>
>> TR-6600
>>
>>  $115.00
>>
>>   1
>>
>>
>>
>> To Order Now call Tranzeo direct or e-mail us at sa...@tranzeo.com.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> The Tranzeo Team
>>
>> Tranzeo Wireless Technologies Inc. (TSX:TZT)
>> 19473 Fraser Way
>> Pitt Meadows BC Canada V3Y 2V4
>> T: 604.460.6002
>> F: 604.460.6005
>> Toll Free Sales:  1 866.872.6936
>> sa...@tranzeo.com 
>> www.tranzeo.com 
>>
>> To remove yourself from this email list click here
>> > 3-b122-49ec65384c98>
>>
>> > 122-49ec65384c98>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> ___
> Board mailing list
> bo...@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/board



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment

[George Rogato]

I was thinking the opposite Kurt, most of the wisps here are quite 
succcesful.

Seriously, those who cry poor mouth, are the exception.


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> Yeah but most Wisps operators are some of the financially worst off people I
> have ever met. I agree on not making a bunch of small claims, same holds
> true with your automobile policy. I remember Mac said once that he actually
> got APC to pay out on their equipment protection guarantee and he got
> something like $15k from it and he said even he couldn't believe it.
> 
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of John Scrivner
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:23 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment
> 
> I carry a very high deductible (like $10K per incident). I keep
> insurance strictly for liability coverage and for catastrophic
> coverage like if our office burns down or a tornado comes through and
> wipes everything out. My rates are low and I do not plan to ever make
> a claim. Insurance companies are in business to make money like
> everyone else. If you use it on small claims then you eat away their
> profit and they have little choice but to consider you as a higher
> risk. Cable TV companies and power companies do not make frequent
> small claims. They take the same approach as I outline above I think.
> At a minimum you MUST have liability coverage in order to locate on
> leased space on towers, poles, etc. There is value in them covering
> you for up to a million or two in liability even if a claim is never
> made. I hope that WISPs think hard about how they interact with
> insurance companies and how we as an industry are perceived by our
> carriers. If WISPs as an industry are seen as companies who make
> frequent claims for any loss then I am guessing this will become a
> factor in how all WISPs are rated for insurance. Do yourselves a favor
> and plan NOT to make claims on insurance. Buy extra gear for your
> towers for replacements and budget a percentage of your gear as having
> to be replaced each year for upgrades, loss, etc. It is cheaper to
> self-insure your gear than to think you can have your insurance carry
> you for every little claim for lightening damage and such.
> Scriv
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Scottie Arnett 
> wrote:
>> Typical "legal organized crime" insurance companies. As long as you are
> paying them and not filing a claim, everything is happy go lucky. File one
> claim and they want to jack your rates through the roof or cancel your
> policy. How do they get away with this stuff? I have 1st hand experience
> with it. I can't believe all are like that, but all I have ever dealt with
> are. If anyone knows of a "professional" insurance company that provides
> what they say without the "crap mentioned above", please let me know.
>> Scott
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Josh Luthman 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:13:02 -0400
>>
>>> What I have heard from other WISPs is that once you do a big claim they
>>> cancel your policy.  I've heard it from multiple angels from multiple
>>> companies so I've always believed it to be true.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>>> --- Henry Spencer
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Charles Wyble
> wrote:
 Why would one find another insurer?

 I do believe they can do a search on claims you have filed and charge
 accordingly. So changing insurers most likely won't help.



 Josh Luthman wrote:
> What we do and what I've been suggested is hold onto an insurance
> policy
 and
> use it when you really have to.  If an AP or two and some CPEs go bad,
 don't
> claim it as it your rates will rise or the policy may be canceled.
>
> If you lost an entire tower and hundreds of thousands of dollars (or
> whatever size completely kicks your bucket) then claim it and prepare
> to
> find another insurer.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Alan Long 
 wrote:
>> All gear.
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Mess

Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE

[George Rogato]

http://nanog.org/mailinglist/

Gino Villarini wrote:
> Matt
> 
> Where could one subscribe to such a list? NaNog List 
> 
> 
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of mlio...@r337.com
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:13 AM
> To: scubac...@gmail.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE
> 
>> All the hard core routing and switching experts I know laugh when 
>> someone suggests Cisco.
>>
>> Cisco is like the WalMart of networking equipment.  If you need 
>> something, chances are that they have something there that will mostly
> 
>> do what it is that you need.  But if you need something for some 
>> specialized need, then chances are you need to go to Juniper, Foundry,
> 
>> Nortel, etc.
>>
> Of course if you had sent the above to the NANOG list they would be
> laughing at you. Cisco and Juniper alone are the reining champs of the
> high-end routing world. Foundry and Nortel are simply not even
> considered.
> Right now, the Cisco CRS-1 is considered the best equipment available.
> 
> Regardless, talking about super high-end routers when Mike is only
> looking for a few 10 GigE ports is silly. A Cisco 6500/7600 with
> sup720-3bxl along with your 10 GigE card of choice is typically what is
> deployed today.
> There is a newer option from Cisco using one of the ASR series routers.
> Those will cost you roughly $25k to get started in any reasonable
> configuration. Whereas the sup720-3bxl option will likely cost you only
> $25k well equiped with a variety of ports. I would guess a sup720-3bxl
> platform with 48 10/100/1000 ports, 48 SFP ports, and 4 10 GigE ports
> would run about $30k used.
> 
> It is worth noting that the sup720-3bxl has enough TCAM to support up to
> 1 million routes and has a backplane that can support 720Gbps.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] FW: 10 GigE

[George Rogato]

So what price range are we talking for such an animal?


Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> I don't think this went out to the list: 
>
>
> Hey Tom.
>
> We just pushed over 7 Gbps full duplex over 18 GigE ports in the lab, so
> we're fast approaching that 10 GigE mark. With small packets, the same
> system forwarded around over 2.3 million PPS. With PCI Express, our systems
> are generally limited by CPU and memory speed instead of being bus limited.
> This means that as long as we can get faster CPUs and memory, we can move
> more packets over PCI Express interfaces.
>
> The PCIe bus can support 250 MBps full duplex over a single x1 lane, which
> is the same as 2 Gbps (B = Byte and b = bit) full duplex. The widest PCI
> Express bus we support currently is x16, which provides up to
> 32 Gbps full duplex. We don't currently have any cards that require this
> much bandwidth, but again, this performance is CPU and memory limited.
>
> The 7 Gbps Jeff mentioned is actually not a published performance spec
> because we are having issues with our test bed. The 10 GigE cards we are
> testing have multiple stream processors in them, and they are not designed
> to be able to forward 10 GigE with a single IP stream. We don't have 10 GigE
> cards for our Smartbits 6000, so we are testing with a NeStream 10 GigE test
> system. This system has not made it easy to control the flows, and we may
> need additional software to support the testing we need to do.
>
> In any case, we expect to get to 10 GigE at wire speed with large packets
> yet this year. Our vendors claim to have achieved this level of performance,
> so we should be able to get to the same throughput. I can't really comment
> on small packet performance, other than to say we've seen over 500 Mbps full
> duplex throughput with pure 64-byte traffic on our GigE ports, so I expect
> to be able to forward at least this much traffic with our 10 GigE cards.
>
> Also, don't forget that we are talking about 10 GigE in and out with this
> test. So when you look at a 10 GigE number like 7 Gbps, we actually
> forwarding 7 Gbps full duplex in and out, or a total of 28 Gbps of aggregate
> traffic.
>
> jc
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>   
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> We think we will eventually be able to saturate a 10 Gig link (PCIe), but
>> you aren't going to go much higher than that.
>>
>> Jeff
>> ImageStream 
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 2:30 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE
>>
>> And that is not likely an Imagestream specific limit, but a general PC
>> archetecture limit. A lot of high end gear will max out by then or before.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 2:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> Depends on packet size.  We have 10 Gig cards that we can put in our
>>> routers, but we can't run one full out yet.  About the best we've seen in
>>> the lab is 7 Gigs full duplex, in optimal conditions.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>> ImageStream
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:23 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 10 GigE
>>>
>>> Any recommendations for routers that have multiple 10 GigE interfaces?  I
>>> believe the PowerRouter can only do 3 and I'm looking for at least 4,
>>>   
> even
>   
>>> up to 8 or 10.  I didn't see anything from ImageStream that went that 
>>> high.
>>>
>>> I don't need to do 100 Gigs of throughput, but if you need 1 GigE of 
>>> commit,
>>> you really need a 10 GigE for bursting.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
> 
>   
>>   
>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
> 
>   
>>   
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
> 
>   
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
> 
>   
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/w

Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE

[George Rogato]

Question that comes to mind,

What size processor or machine  is needed to do 10GigE's?



Mike Hammett wrote:
> Any recommendations for routers that have multiple 10 GigE interfaces?  I 
> believe the PowerRouter can only do 3 and I'm looking for at least 4, even up 
> to 8 or 10.  I didn't see anything from ImageStream that went that high.
>
> I don't need to do 100 Gigs of throughput, but if you need 1 GigE of commit, 
> you really need a 10 GigE for bursting.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] whats your longest uptime?

[George Rogato]

Here's a guy that has a 1000 day up time.

http://forums.star-os.com/showpost.php?p=66695&postcount=1


Travis Johnson wrote:
> Tower mounted AP = 500+ days.
> Customer prem switch = 5+ years.
> Tower router = 321 days
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> 
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> Whats your longest recorded uptime for a tower mounted router? I got a RB433
>> with 173 days up since the day the site was installed. Its got a little 7ah
>> battery on in case power fails. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>   
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Big Brother's coming...

[George Rogato]

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Next thing you know, in real time, every time you pass a traffic light, 
> they'll also be checking instant verification on
>   
or

License  Plate Scanners




http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2009/02/09/news/news01.txt



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth

[George Rogato]

I would be looking at SBA loans.

I understand that SBA is being revamped to 90% loan guarantee and other 
fees being wiped.

And don't forget there is the stimulus and wispa has a grant and 
legislative committee.

Hope this is helpful.

George

sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:
> With this in mind what is the best financing option for fiber deployments? 
> Our current leasing providers are not interested because of it being fiber? 
> So what is a viable finance option for your own fiber deployments?
> 
> John
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Scrivner" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:15:24 AM GMT -05:00 Columbia
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth
> 
> Have you priced building your own fiber? If costs are that high and
> fiber transport is that scarce then you could certainly find many who
> would buy an "exit ramp on your information super-highway" if you
> build your own fiber. It has a life cycle of up to 30 plus years so
> you should be able to stretch out the loan over many years. I am
> looking at this myself. I think that it makes sense on long runs like
> this to consider fiber. Pricing has come down considerably. Just my 2
> cents worth.
> Scriv
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>> Because it's 200+ miles away and crosses state lines. It would be at
>> least 10 hops. Tower space is roughly $250/month around here so
>> that's $2,500 per month just for the towers... then you have
>> maintenance, equipment cost ($100k) and it would only save me about
>> $1,000 per month.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Harold Bledsoe wrote:
>>> Those of you that are paying >$50/Mbps, what is keeping you from
>>> building your own backhaul to cheaper bandwidth (wireless, dark fiber,
>>> etc.)?  It seems to me that this would be a major consideration in the
>>> business plan as this is a big MRC.  Don't wait for someone to bring you
>>> cheap bandwidth...go get it!  :-)
>>>
>>> -Hal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex

[George Rogato]

So Ubiquiti may be an answer then. Assuming they do have their cards 
certified.



lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
> 4.9 GHz is covered by Part 90 and does not need to be a certified "system" 
> only the emitter needs to be certfied.
> 
> -B-
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Larsen - Lists 
> 
> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:46:17 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
> 
> 
> StarOS will do 4.9ghz FD no problem.
> 
> The X4000 and X2000 units can both do this.  They are FCC approved, 
> although someone would probably argue that they may not be approved with 
> all of the 4.9ghz antennas.   I know it works, and we use it combined 
> with Tranzeo 4.9 CPE radios for our local city government and county 
> government.   I also know that StarOS is being used all around Boston to 
> deliver highway cameras and security cameras back to monitoring 
> locations for government entities, so it is out there in use by many 
> parties and is not a "homebrew" solution as some here will suggest.
> 
> If you have to get FDD in 4.9ghz, this will do it.
> 
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
> 
> Matt Jenkins wrote:
>> I would like to see some test cases with real world stats on these. If 
>> they do what they claim it would make them a very appealing choice.
>>
>> 3-dB Networks wrote:
>>   
>>> Yes it is MIMO.  It operates in the same channel in Horizontal and
>>> Vertical... much like Orthogon et. al.
>>>
>>> Your right though... its sales fluff (which in this case though could be
>>> helpful sales fluff).  Guess I got caught up in it without really thinking
>>> about that :-)
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>> 3-dB Networks
>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] spoiled generation

[George Rogato]

Mark Nash wrote:
> Yes, the more more more free free free generation.  

Guess you hit the nail on the head, the "me" generation is being 
replaced by the "free" generation




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] spoiled generation

[George Rogato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGYx35ypus



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex

[George Rogato]

Doesn't Ubiquiti have a certified 4.9 radio?



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] ISP billing/management software.

[George Rogato]

Jason Hensley wrote:
easy integration with Wombat (help-desk that we integrated a few
> months ago - love it too)

Jason

Do you use Wombat for dialup or wireless subs?

I'm curious because I was going to add wombat a few years ago but held 
off, Lately I was considering checking out wombat to see if it would be 
a benefit, but I couldn't find enough info on it.

George



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth

[George Rogato]

It's true that it is a big expense and it's not an easy task.
But, we just got a "franchise agreement" from our city for fiber.
The way they calculate it is either on a per foot basis, or a percentage 
of revenues across the fiber.
Naturally we did the percentage, but another company that brought 
submarine cable through our city is paying a yearly per foot.

So with the percentage based system, the cost are easier to consume for 
city wide.

As for the boring, thats what I'm wrestling with right now myself.
Back in 2000 or 2001 we laid conduits up a couple streets to get some 
fiber going. We didn't even have a franchise agreement with the city, 
but it was sanctioned by them anyways.
What we did was to buy the pvc ourselves and hired a prison crew to dig. 
I live on a sand dune, so digging is much easier here than places with 
harder soil types.
One of the excavators I used work with when I was an electrician came by 
after seeing the crew digging and told me he could have done it for less.
So we compared notes, what it cost me for prison labor and his price 
based on the footage.
He was one of the cheapest guys around for excavating, so the price he 
told me wasn't going to get any better. It turned out we were a bit 
lower than his price, with the exception that he would have broken 
sidewalks and possibly damaged pipes along the way, where we were a 
clean damage free dig.

So yeah, it cost a lot to dig, but the conduits will be there for ever 
and you can do anything with the fiber that you can find a market for.
And it keeps you in the game.

Sadly, if wisps or isps don't start thinking about laying fiber, I think 
the future will be cut short. Not saying to give up on wireless but 
rather thinking about how to compliment the wireless with fiber.

It's Sunday and I have to go back to work... Today we are learning to 
terminate fiber.

George


Scott Carullo wrote:
> Again -- it depends where you are and who you have to deal with.  within 
> the first 20 miles or so of our city you have to pay the city $2 a foot for 
> the permit and then some fee each month, directional bore each road with 
> its own permit and engineering etc.
> 
> A L3 guy told me their costs to build out around here is about $35,000 per 
> mile.  While I'm sure lots of people would love to use fiber after it went 
> from point a to be its not realistic for a smaller company to fund a 
> project of that size or even be allowed to do it (to run fiber here you 
> have to be a registered state utility company).
> 
> Every single instance for every single ISP is going to be different and 
> suffice it to say we all should and probably already do our homework before 
> making any kind of large commitment or investment - bandwidth included.
> 
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
> 
>  Original Message 
>> From: "John Scrivner" 
>> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:16 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth
>>
>> Have you priced building your own fiber? If costs are that high and
>> fiber transport is that scarce then you could certainly find many who
>> would buy an "exit ramp on your information super-highway" if you
>> build your own fiber. It has a life cycle of up to 30 plus years so
>> you should be able to stretch out the loan over many years. I am
>> looking at this myself. I think that it makes sense on long runs like
>> this to consider fiber. Pricing has come down considerably. Just my 2
>> cents worth.
>> Scriv
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>> Because it's 200+ miles away and crosses state lines. It would be at
>>> least 10 hops. Tower space is roughly $250/month around here so
>>> that's $2,500 per month just for the towers... then you have
>>> maintenance, equipment cost ($100k) and it would only save me about
>>> $1,000 per month.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Harold Bledsoe wrote:
 Those of you that are paying >$50/Mbps, what is keeping you from
 building your own backhaul to cheaper bandwidth (wireless, dark 
> fiber,
 etc.)?  It seems to me that this would be a major consideration in 
> the
 business plan as this is a big MRC.  Don't wait for someone to bring 
> you
 cheap bandwidth...go get it!  :-)

 -Hal




> 
> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

> 
> 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



>>>
>>>
> 
> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> --

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[George Rogato]

I'm all set for now Mike.
We have been connected to another one your missing, Light Speed 
Networks, formerly NOAHNET, since 2002

Recently we just got a new fiber carrier in town, they did a submarine 
cable to Alaska. it lands just up the street from us and they work with 
my fiber carrier.
Right now they have 4 10GigE circuits that go from here to Alaska and 
who knows where.

Thats what I would call capacity.




Mike Hammett wrote:
> It is 60 ish miles away, but Eugene has Electric Lightwave, 360 networks, 
> Global Crossing, Level3 (they may even have fiber in your town).
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> From: "George Rogato" 
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 11:24 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
>> Yeah I realize that. We're luycky that Boneville and Williams did a big
>> fiber deal many years ago that put fiber all across the North West..
>> Still is not easy to get access, the transport costs are quite high, but
>> it's possible.
>>
>> maybe some of the emp[hasis on the broadband stimulus money ought to be
>> pointed at getting big fiber pipes to the area or region rather than
>> getting fiber to the home.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> RickG wrote:
>>> George,
>>> Sounds great and mus be nice but there are no facilities in the 
>>> boondocks!
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM, George Rogato 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kinda high
>>>> If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this
>>>>
>>>> Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it
>>>> for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with
>>>> a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per
>>>> meg.
>>>>
>>>> If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per
>>>> meg.
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blair Davis wrote:
>>>>> Some simple numbers...
>>>>>
>>>>> $1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was
>>>>> paying out here.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.
>>>>>
>>>>> $170 cost of bandwidth per user.
>>>>>
>>>>> Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the
>>>>> bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard
>>>>> web browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and
>>>>> won't understand that.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more 
>>>>> power
>>>>> to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your 
>>>>> ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.
>>>>> That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust
>>>>> their usage to what they are willing to pay for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of
>>>>> doing business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps, 
>>>>> or
>>>>> begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.
>>>>>
>>>>> The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>>>> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
>>>>>>> world?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that.  They are just
>>>>>> realistic about what they have available.
>>>>>> And they are creative enough to understand that there are still 
>>>>>> markets
>>>>>> willing to deal with that, because WISPs have oth

Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth

[George Rogato]

What you need Rick, is one of these bad boys:

http://www.directionaldrills.com/imageview.php?product=251

Then all you have to do is drill your way past the incumbant.

(this is supposed to be humorous)

RickG wrote:
> Co$t! 35 miles as a crow flys to the nearest fiber facility. Worse yet, only
> one major provider there and they are expensive. -RickG
> 
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Harold Bledsoe 
> wrote:
> 
>> Those of you that are paying >$50/Mbps, what is keeping you from
>> building your own backhaul to cheaper bandwidth (wireless, dark fiber,
>> etc.)?  It seems to me that this would be a major consideration in the
>> business plan as this is a big MRC.  Don't wait for someone to bring you
>> cheap bandwidth...go get it!  :-)
>>
>> -Hal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[George Rogato]

Rick
Sadly I am not hearing any emphasis on fiber to the independent 
provider, just high bandwidth to the consumer.


RickG wrote:
> Thats what I'm hoping for. Otherwise, a 10x10 fiber from TimeWarner for
> $1800 is considered an upgrade in these parts!
> -RickG
> 
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 12:24 PM, George Rogato wrote:
> 
>> Yeah I realize that. We're luycky that Boneville and Williams did a big
>> fiber deal many years ago that put fiber all across the North West..
>> Still is not easy to get access, the transport costs are quite high, but
>> it's possible.
>>
>> maybe some of the emp[hasis on the broadband stimulus money ought to be
>> pointed at getting big fiber pipes to the area or region rather than
>> getting fiber to the home.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> RickG wrote:
>>> George,
>>> Sounds great and mus be nice but there are no facilities in the
>> boondocks!
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM, George Rogato >> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kinda high
>>>> If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this
>>>>
>>>> Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it
>>>> for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with
>>>> a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per
>>>> meg.
>>>>
>>>> If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per
>>>> meg.
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blair Davis wrote:
>>>>> Some simple numbers...
>>>>>
>>>>> $1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was
>>>>> paying out here.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.
>>>>>
>>>>> $170 cost of bandwidth per user.
>>>>>
>>>>> Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the
>>>>> bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard
>>>>> web browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and
>>>>> won't understand that.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more
>> power
>>>>> to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your
>> ways.
>>>>> The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.
>>>>> That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust
>>>>> their usage to what they are willing to pay for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of
>>>>> doing business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps,
>> or
>>>>> begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.
>>>>>
>>>>> The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>>>> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
>>>>>>> world?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that.  They are just
>>>>>> realistic about what they have available.
>>>>>> And they are creative enough to understand that there are still
>> markets
>>>>>> willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of
>>>> equal
>>>>>> or greater value, to creat a WISP market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one
>>>>>> public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give
>>>> money
>>>>>> to wireless companies so we can have slower service".  Wireless will
>> be
>>>> a
>>>>>> part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service
>>>>>> sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve

Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth

[George Rogato]

Agreed we have a tad more than a 1000 wireless subs and we hit our cap 
nightly @ 30megs. And I try like hell to avoid the power users.



J. Vogel wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> I would love to live in the world you describe here.  :)
> 
> Bandwidth cost dwarfs credit card processing cost where I live. It also
> seems very optimistic to put 1000 customers on a 20mb link. At best, I
> would think that if they are consuming ~20mbps, that you should have at
> least twice that in capacity, so that means a full DS3, and the best
> pricing I have gotten on a DS3 is in excess of $6k (and getting to that
> requires a 25 mile wireless hop).  In many areas of the country,
> $300-400/mbps is the rule for Nx/T1s.
> 
> John
> 
> Charles Wu wrote:
>> Hi Hal,
>>
>> In the grand scheme of things...bandwidth / port costs are a minute fraction 
>> of an ISP/WISPs operating expenses (heck, I find that for a residential 
>> WISP...the credit card processing bill can be higher than the bandwidth bill)
>>
>> That said, look at it this way
>>
>> Based on our studies/trending...1,000 residential subscribers consume ~20 Mb 
>> of bandwidth
>>
>> So...1,000 customers @ $40 / month = $40k / month in revenue
>> If you're getting "hosed" and paying $200 / Mb, that's still only $4k / month
>>
>> Now...say there's a datacenter 40 miles away that has bandwidth for $50 / Mb 
>> -- that's a total of $3k / month in savings
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[George Rogato]

Yeah I realize that. We're luycky that Boneville and Williams did a big 
fiber deal many years ago that put fiber all across the North West.. 
Still is not easy to get access, the transport costs are quite high, but 
it's possible.

maybe some of the emp[hasis on the broadband stimulus money ought to be 
pointed at getting big fiber pipes to the area or region rather than 
getting fiber to the home.




RickG wrote:
> George,
> Sounds great and mus be nice but there are no facilities in the boondocks!
> -RickG
> 
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM, George Rogato wrote:
> 
>> Kinda high
>> If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this
>>
>> Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it
>> for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with
>> a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per
>> meg.
>>
>> If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per
>> meg.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> Blair Davis wrote:
>>> Some simple numbers...
>>>
>>> $1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was
>>> paying out here.
>>>
>>> 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.
>>>
>>> $170 cost of bandwidth per user.
>>>
>>> Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.
>>>
>>> The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the
>>> bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.
>>>
>>> These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard
>>> web browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and
>>> won't understand that.
>>>
>>> If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power
>>> to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways.
>>>
>>> The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.
>>> That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust
>>> their usage to what they are willing to pay for.
>>>
>>> Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of
>>> doing business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or
>>> begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.
>>>
>>> The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
>>>>> world?
>>>>>
>>>> Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world".
>>>>
>>>> The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that.  They are just
>>>> realistic about what they have available.
>>>> And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets
>>>> willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of
>> equal
>>>> or greater value, to creat a WISP market.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one
>>>> public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give
>> money
>>>> to wireless companies so we can have slower service".  Wireless will be
>> a
>>>> part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service
>>>> sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and
>> people,
>>>> so less people get left without being served, and more people get better
>>>> service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless,
>> consumers
>>>> will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant
>> gratification
>>>> that can be gained today.
>>>>
>>>> WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or
>>>> impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end
>> up
>>>> broke.
>>>> I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is...
>>>>
>>>> Sure we'd all like to lay fiber.  We just don't want to wait 20 years
>> for an
>>>> ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance
>> capabilty
>>>> upfront (broke :-).
>>>> We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating
>> easements
>>>> with

Re: [WISPA] ISP billing/management software.

[George Rogato]

Here's a thought, been using Platypus for years, supports my isp very well.
I'm happy.



Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Grin.  I know that this has come up from time to time.  I'm after current 
> info and thoughts.
> 
> laters,
> marlon
> 
> ----- Original Message - 
> From: "George Rogato" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ISP billing/management software.
> 
> 
>> Well you either use freeside at no cost but you pay for the programming,
>> someone on this list is an expert freeside programmer by the way, or you
>> use Platypus which is not free but needs less programing.
>> There are others like Platypus, billmax rodolphi etc.
>>
>> You may want to search the archives. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I just got a notice that Quickbooks is going to REQUIRE an upgrade in 
>>> order
>>> to continue to keep sending out bills via email.  And we have all of 1 
>>> month
>>> or so to get it done  I HATE Intuit and would like to replace them.
>>>
>>> Here's the work flow in our office.
>>>
>>> New customer calls in.
>>> Fill out signup sheet with all needed customer data.
>>> Assign static ip to customer.
>>> Enter customer billing info into Quickbooks.
>>> Enter all customer data into Access.
>>> Enter customer username and pass into RADIUS.
>>> Enter customer email account(s) data into email server.
>>> Enter customer data into Postini (if they purchase the filtering).
>>> Type customer signup sheet info into word doc and store in customer 
>>> folder.
>>> Generate installation work order.
>>> Fill out check list showing what steps have been completed.
>>>
>>> This has worked nicely in the past and "only" takes about 30 minutes to
>>> accomplish.  But now we're growing too fast and have gotten too big to
>>> maintain this.  Between tech support calls etc. the office manager is 
>>> having
>>> to bring in extra help.  It's only a day per week and it's good for there 
>>> to
>>> be two people there at least part of the time.  No one should work alone 
>>> all
>>> of the time.  Plus, if she wants to take some time off she will have 
>>> someone
>>> trained in the basics so we'll likely need to keep some extra help around 
>>> no
>>> matter what.  This mechanism also gives us a lot of double checks, 
>>> redundant
>>> data points etc.  With Access and Quickbooks we can run a very nice mix 
>>> of
>>> reports etc.
>>>
>>> We do NOT have a customer trouble ticket mechanism other than the file on
>>> them.  We don't track customers on a per call basis.  That's not too bad
>>> because we're still small enough that we can normally remember problem
>>> customers.
>>>
>>> This would probably be a good time to change everything though.
>>>
>>> In my perfect world, I'd have a billing system (that handles all of the
>>> taxes for different communities etc.), trouble ticketing, auto server
>>> configuration AND deconfig.  I'd want good reporting capabilities.
>>>
>>> I've looked at some of the commercial systems out there, but at $1 or 
>>> more
>>> per month per sub for a full blown system I'd rather keep putting that 
>>> money
>>> into the local labor pool.
>>>
>>> Freeside looks pretty good but I don't do programming or server admin 
>>> work
>>> in-house.  I don't mind hiring someone to set it all up etc. and to take
>>> care of the server.  But it has to be an affordable solution too.
>>>
>>> What are people using?  Do you like it?
>>>
>>> If you had it to do all over again, what would you do?
>>>
>>> Vendors please feel free to hit me up.
>>> marlon
>>> 509.988.0260
>>> Or talk to Apryl in the office 509.982.2181, she'll know more about what 
>>> she
>>> does day in and day out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
&

Re: [WISPA] ISP billing/management software.

[George Rogato]

Well you either use freeside at no cost but you pay for the programming, 
someone on this list is an expert freeside programmer by the way, or you 
use Platypus which is not free but needs less programing.
There are others like Platypus, billmax rodolphi etc.

You may want to search the archives. 




Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I just got a notice that Quickbooks is going to REQUIRE an upgrade in order 
> to continue to keep sending out bills via email.  And we have all of 1 month 
> or so to get it done  I HATE Intuit and would like to replace them.
> 
> Here's the work flow in our office.
> 
> New customer calls in.
> Fill out signup sheet with all needed customer data.
> Assign static ip to customer.
> Enter customer billing info into Quickbooks.
> Enter all customer data into Access.
> Enter customer username and pass into RADIUS.
> Enter customer email account(s) data into email server.
> Enter customer data into Postini (if they purchase the filtering).
> Type customer signup sheet info into word doc and store in customer folder.
> Generate installation work order.
> Fill out check list showing what steps have been completed.
> 
> This has worked nicely in the past and "only" takes about 30 minutes to 
> accomplish.  But now we're growing too fast and have gotten too big to 
> maintain this.  Between tech support calls etc. the office manager is having 
> to bring in extra help.  It's only a day per week and it's good for there to 
> be two people there at least part of the time.  No one should work alone all 
> of the time.  Plus, if she wants to take some time off she will have someone 
> trained in the basics so we'll likely need to keep some extra help around no 
> matter what.  This mechanism also gives us a lot of double checks, redundant 
> data points etc.  With Access and Quickbooks we can run a very nice mix of 
> reports etc.
> 
> We do NOT have a customer trouble ticket mechanism other than the file on 
> them.  We don't track customers on a per call basis.  That's not too bad 
> because we're still small enough that we can normally remember problem 
> customers.
> 
> This would probably be a good time to change everything though.
> 
> In my perfect world, I'd have a billing system (that handles all of the 
> taxes for different communities etc.), trouble ticketing, auto server 
> configuration AND deconfig.  I'd want good reporting capabilities.
> 
> I've looked at some of the commercial systems out there, but at $1 or more 
> per month per sub for a full blown system I'd rather keep putting that money 
> into the local labor pool.
> 
> Freeside looks pretty good but I don't do programming or server admin work 
> in-house.  I don't mind hiring someone to set it all up etc. and to take 
> care of the server.  But it has to be an affordable solution too.
> 
> What are people using?  Do you like it?
> 
> If you had it to do all over again, what would you do?
> 
> Vendors please feel free to hit me up.
> marlon
> 509.988.0260
> Or talk to Apryl in the office 509.982.2181, she'll know more about what she 
> does day in and day out. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[George Rogato]

Thats what I see happening, older customers that never even knew how to 
find youtube , never mind understnd or use P2P, are now doing the 
netflix and dish on demand.
I'm seeing a growing number of people using those products now.
Kinda scary in some ways.

George


Mike Hammett wrote:
> Once your users figure out they can watch their favorite shows or movies 
> online, your tune will change.
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Travis Johnson 
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
> 
> Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I have 
> for 10+ years.
> 
> Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is FASTER 
> than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's benchmark 
> program). 
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> Mike Hammett wrote: 
> 2 megs is yesterday's news.
> 
> U-Verse is 18/1.5
> FiOS is 50/20
> Charter has 60/5
> Comcast has 50/10
> 
> 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k.  Charter is 30 times faster than that.
> 
> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Kevin Suitor" 
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
>   We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds
> of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and
> some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps
> downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per
> sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market.
> 
> The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in
> wireless networking.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Kevin
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
> WiMAX
> AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
> 
> -
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>   On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
> 
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
> 
>   Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
> 
> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
> 
> 
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
> the
> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
> 
> Take care leon
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I'm looking into this too.
> 
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
> that tower
> 
> Anyone have any better ideas?
> marlon
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>   General
> List"
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
> 
> 
> 
>   Fellow operators:
> 
> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
> 
> Any updates on experiences with:
> 
> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
> Airspan ???
> 
> 
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> ---

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[George Rogato]

Have you compared them Travis?
I would appreciate real world opinion. Reason is, our upstream on our 
last contract had us riding Level3 and when we renegotiated, we found 
ourselves riding cogent.

I'm not so sure Level3 is much better. I can recall trace routing stuff 
and finding myself hoping from here in Oregon to Chicago and then to San 
Jose.

I was thinking Portland to San Jose has to be easy to do, but thats not 
the route they take. I realize things change, and I have no problem pay 
12.00 for good bandwidth, I'm paying more now under my current contract.

Guess what I would like to know is where to find the ratings of who is 
the best, I used to hear Sprint was quality, but that was just a few 
opinions.







Travis Johnson wrote:
> I have a quote from Level3 for $12.50 per meg and it's 10x the 
> bandwidth that Cogent is... ;)
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> 
> George Rogato wrote:
>> Kinda high
>> If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this
>>
>> Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it 
>> for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with 
>> a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per 
>> meg.
>>
>> If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> Blair Davis wrote:
>>   
>>> Some simple numbers...
>>>
>>> $1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was 
>>> paying out here.
>>>
>>> 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.
>>>
>>> $170 cost of bandwidth per user.
>>>
>>> Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.
>>>
>>> The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the 
>>> bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.
>>>
>>> These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard 
>>> web browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and 
>>> won't understand that.
>>>
>>> If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power 
>>> to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways.
>>>
>>> The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.  
>>> That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust 
>>> their usage to what they are willing to pay for.
>>>
>>> Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of 
>>> doing business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or 
>>> begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.
>>>
>>> The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
>>>>> world?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world".
>>>>
>>>> The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that.  They are just 
>>>> realistic about what they have available.
>>>> And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets 
>>>> willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of 
>>>> equal 
>>>> or greater value, to creat a WISP market.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one 
>>>> public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money 
>>>> to wireless companies so we can have slower service".  Wireless will be a 
>>>> part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service 
>>>> sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and 
>>>> people, 
>>>> so less people get left without being served, and more people get better 
>>>> service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, 
>>>> consumers 
>>>> will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant 
>>>> gratification 
>>>> that can be gained today.
>>>>
>>>> WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or 
>>>> impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up 
>>>> broke.
>>>> I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using

Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

[George Rogato]

Pretty good catalog Mark Has some great aerial illustrations on proper 
hardware.

This week we hung out aerial fiber from our noc to the tank. It was a 
550' span 275' across a big creek.
We used figure 8 fiber with lashes and as well as a couple cable 
messenger clamps.

I had to use a 12' surf rod to get across the creek. Was fun work.

Now I have to learn to terminate the fiber so I can use it.

George

Mark Nash wrote:
> I have used these Dead End Grips for short aerial runs without messengers...
> 
> http://www.arrisi.com/product_catalog/tw_docs/TWS%20Sec_E.pdf
> 
> Page 16, part # PRF 003348
> 
> Arris is a cable company supplier, and you have to have a minimum of $250
> order, but they carry many more installation items on the cheap.  Very
> inexpensive cable ties, markers, P-hooks, etc.
> 
> I got the dead end grips for $.53 each (order qty 100).
> 
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Frank Crawford" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5
> 
> 
>> Here are some sample Aerial deploment products, jpeg of attachment
>> (clamp&wedge), and water proof enclosure device.
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Jason Hensley" 
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:19 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5
>>
>>
>>> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole
>>> to
>>> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a
>>> "messenger"
>>> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year
>>> or
>>> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?
> I've
>>> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
>>> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
> --
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
> --
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> --
> --
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
> --
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[George Rogato]

Kinda high
If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this

Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it 
for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with 
a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per 
meg.

If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg.

George


Blair Davis wrote:
> Some simple numbers...
> 
> $1700/month for 10Mbits.  Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was 
> paying out here.
> 
> 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user.
> 
> $170 cost of bandwidth per user.
> 
> Users out here are not going to pay that.  Period.
> 
> The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the 
> bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost.
> 
> These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard 
> web browsing and email apps we are used to.  But the users don't and 
> won't understand that.
> 
> If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power 
> to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways.
> 
> The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing.  
> That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust 
> their usage to what they are willing to pay for.
> 
> Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of 
> doing business to us.  Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or 
> begin billing our users for them, it will kill us.
> 
> The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out.
> 
> Blair
> 
> 
> 
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired
>>> world?
>>> 
>>
>> Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world".
>>
>> The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that.  They are just 
>> realistic about what they have available.
>> And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets 
>> willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal 
>> or greater value, to creat a WISP market.
>>
>> I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one 
>> public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money 
>> to wireless companies so we can have slower service".  Wireless will be a 
>> part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service 
>> sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, 
>> so less people get left without being served, and more people get better 
>> service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers 
>> will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification 
>> that can be gained today.
>>
>> WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or 
>> impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up 
>> broke.
>> I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is...
>>
>> Sure we'd all like to lay fiber.  We just don't want to wait 20 years for an 
>> ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty 
>> upfront (broke :-).
>> We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements 
>> with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-).
>> The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things.  But they also 
>> grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, 
>> because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, 
>> and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them 
>> to work harder.
>>
>> The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment.  And the Truth 
>> is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-)
>>
>> So WiMax vendors,  Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford 
>> today!!!
>>
>> There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for 
>> volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless 
>> providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers 
>> are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a 
>> better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to 
>> favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited 
>> about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish 
>> top penetration.  Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are 
>> competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill.  But I think 
>> clever innovators should be able to fill it.
>>
>> $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans 
>> get next generation broadband.  But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money 
>> to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it 
>> would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear.  Lets start 
>> getting creative w

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

[George Rogato]

Jeff Booher wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
> rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)
> 

I thought a rutabega was a vegitable.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

[George Rogato]

I got carried away searching for cables I also found this, it says in stock:

http://www.americantechsupply.com/chromatic_out.html

Part Number-ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- (SPEC SHEET) Aerial- UV Rated CAT 5e With 
Messenger- $ 169.00/1000 Feet We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!

ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- INSTOCK! $ 169.99 Per 1000 Foot Box-Part Number : 
ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated- ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE- AERIAL CAT5E CABLE- 
Ideal For Roof to Roof- EMP- Light EMP Shielding- FOR USE ON CELL-RADIO 
TOWERS-Dependability you can trust! Our product is backed by 15 year 
warranty, satisfaction guaranteed-We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!

Part Number ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-CAT 5E SHIELDED - AERIAL- WITH 
MESSENGER-UV RATED

Shielded CAT 5E OSP Rated Cable Part Number: ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated- 
ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE - THIS CABLE IS NOT GEL FILLED AND IS DESIGNED TO 
USE IN BUILDING TO BUILDING EXTENTION OF TELEPHONE AND DATA ASERVICES 
SUCH AS DSL-BROADBAND- ETHERNET- CAN ALSO BE USED FOR ENVIRONMENTS WITH 
emp- electromagnetic pulse radiation- OR 'NOISY' AREAS THAT CAN 
INTERFERE WITH DATA AND OR TELEPHONE TRANSMISSION. Dependability you can 
trust! Our product is backed by 15 year warranty, satisfaction guaranteed

Call Us Today At (866) 650-3282 (DATA)

George Rogato wrote:
> http://www.hyperline.com/catalog/cable/ftp4_s_sw_out.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Reed wrote:
>> Yes that is the correct terminology.
>> I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we have 
>> needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it as 
>> the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around that.  No 
>> worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and it does 
>> not droop, either.
>>
>> Jason Hensley wrote:
>>> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to
>>> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a "messenger"
>>> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or
>>> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?  I've
>>> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
>>> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. 
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>  
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>   
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: 03/18/09 
>>> 20:27:00
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

[George Rogato]

http://www.hyperline.com/catalog/cable/ftp4_s_sw_out.shtml



Scott Reed wrote:
> Yes that is the correct terminology.
> I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we have 
> needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it as 
> the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around that.  No 
> worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and it does 
> not droop, either.
> 
> Jason Hensley wrote:
>> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to
>> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a "messenger"
>> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or
>> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?  I've
>> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
>> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>   
>> 
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: 03/18/09 
>> 20:27:00
>>
>>   
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] schools

[George Rogato]

I think they are labels, it's the old divide and conquer. We call 
ourselves left and right and then fight about it, all the while our 
politicians, both left and right, have a good old time trying to figure 
out how to get more tax revenue out of us while having a good old time 
with our money.



Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> If you really want to get your head spinning, the labels are mean the
> opposite overseas.  Classical economic liberalism is today's United States
> conservative, and vice versa.
> 
> Jeff
>
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of George Rogato
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:53 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
> 
> Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers
> individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals.[1]
> 
> Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. 
> Within liberalism, there are various streams of thought which compete over
> the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different policies, but
> they are generally united by their support for constitutional liberalism,
> which encompasses support for: freedom of thought and speech, limitations on
> the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private
> property,[2] and a transparent system of government.[3][4][5] All liberals,
> as well as some adherents of other political ideologies, support some
> variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and
> fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.[6]
> 
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
>>
>> That one is about as far off as it can get.  I think liberalism is 
>> interested in equal outcome, not equal opportunity.  It's interested 
>> in eliminating the poor, bad grades, winners and losers etc.  
>> Liberalism wants to make sure you don't loose that house you shouldn't
> have etc.
>> 
>>
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brad Belton" 
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>
>>
>>> Responded off list, but this is interesting...especially the last 
>>> paragraph...
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Tom Sharples
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:29 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>>
>>> In the early 1920's, things got to the point in Germany where it cost 
>>> 100 million marks to send a letter across town. Be careful what you wish
> for.
>>> Tom S.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Brad Belton" 
>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>>
>>>
>>>> Oh!!!...you just hit the nail on the head!  If the money is for 
>>>> me...well then it's ok.  Someone else and then it's not.  
>>>>
>>>> That's why I'm for the $7k, $20k, $80k (whatever it is) check sent 
>>>> to my home address made out to Yours Truly instead!
>>>>
>>>> Then we're all benefiting and can stimulate the economy as we each 
>>>> see fit.
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>>> On Behalf Of George Rogato
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>>>
>>>> I heard from my far right wing buddy, that the plan is to get to $15 
>>>> Trillion by the time they are all done.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously.
>>>>
>>>> For the record, I am not sure if anyone else has noticed, but I have 
>>>> yet to actually meet anyone, anyone from the far left to the far 
>>>> right, and we have plenty of both around here, that think any of 
>>>> this bail out is worth while.
>>>> I hear, give Americans a free tax year and let us

Re: [WISPA] schools

[George Rogato]

Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers 
individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals.[1]

Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. 
Within liberalism, there are various streams of thought which compete 
over the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different 
policies, but they are generally united by their support for 
constitutional liberalism, which encompasses support for: freedom of 
thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of 
law, an individual's right to private property,[2] and a transparent 
system of government.[3][4][5] All liberals, as well as some adherents 
of other political ideologies, support some variant of the form of 
government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, 
where all citizens have equal rights by law.[6]


Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
> 
> That one is about as far off as it can get.  I think liberalism is 
> interested in equal outcome, not equal opportunity.  It's interested in 
> eliminating the poor, bad grades, winners and losers etc.  Liberalism wants 
> to make sure you don't loose that house you shouldn't have etc.
> 
> 
> 
> marlon
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
> 
> 
>> Responded off list, but this is interesting...especially the last
>> paragraph...
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tom Sharples
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:29 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>
>> In the early 1920's, things got to the point in Germany where it cost 100
>> million marks to send a letter across town. Be careful what you wish for.
>>
>> Tom S.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brad Belton" 
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>
>>
>>> Oh!!!...you just hit the nail on the head!  If the money is for me...well
>>> then it's ok.  Someone else and then it's not.  
>>>
>>> That's why I'm for the $7k, $20k, $80k (whatever it is) check sent to my
>>> home address made out to Yours Truly instead!
>>>
>>> Then we're all benefiting and can stimulate the economy as we each see
>>> fit.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of George Rogato
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>>
>>> I heard from my far right wing buddy, that the plan is to get to $15
>>> Trillion by the time they are all done.
>>>
>>> Seriously.
>>>
>>> For the record, I am not sure if anyone else has noticed, but I have yet
>>> to actually meet anyone, anyone from the far left to the far right, and
>>> we have plenty of both around here, that think any of this bail out is
>>> worth while.
>>> I hear, give Americans a free tax year and let us stimulate that way. I
>>> hear let them fail, it's natural for the weak to fail, and it;s there
>>> own fault.
>>> But I just have not heard one person say, I agree what a great idea. And
>>> I come across a lot of people.
>>>
>>>
>>> I like the idea money will be spent on broadband, but not citigroup,
>>> myself.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck Bartosch wrote:
>>>> LOL, dude, some pretty trivial math would tell you that's clearly not
>>>> even in the ballpark!
>>>>
>>>> Maybe if the stimulus were $7.4 trillion, not $740 billion. But, hey,
>>>> what's a factor of 10 or so between friends, eh?
>>>>
>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is it true that the amount of money spent in "stimulus" plans would
>>>>> be equal
>>>>> to or less than the government writing

Re: [WISPA] schools

[George Rogato]

Don't worry Chuck, your not alone.
I've resigned myself to it's interesting conversation and no matter what 
I or most think, it doesn't matter anyways.


Chuck Bartosch wrote:
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 11:23 PM, George Rogato wrote:
> 
>> I heard from my far right wing buddy, that the plan is to get to $15
>> Trillion by the time they are all done.
>>
>> Seriously.
>>
>> For the record, I am not sure if anyone else has noticed, but I have  
>> yet
>> to actually meet anyone, anyone from the far left to the far right,  
>> and
>> we have plenty of both around here, that think any of this bail out is
>> worth while.
> 
> Yeah, I've heard similar comments from folks on both ends of the  
> spectrum. There's lots of skepticism. Me, I don't bother having an  
> opinion because, as much as I keep up on this stuff...well, I don't  
> know dinky-do.
> 
> I have *no* idea why I'm responding to this thread. Normally I like to  
> pretend I'm smart enough to stay out of such discussions ;-). Must be  
> all that economic stress is addling my brain!
> 
> Chuck
> 
>> I hear, give Americans a free tax year and let us stimulate that  
>> way. I
>> hear let them fail, it's natural for the weak to fail, and it;s there
>> own fault.
>> But I just have not heard one person say, I agree what a great idea.  
>> And
>> I come across a lot of people.
>>
>>
>> I like the idea money will be spent on broadband, but not citigroup,  
>> myself.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> Chuck Bartosch wrote:
>>> LOL, dude, some pretty trivial math would tell you that's clearly not
>>> even in the ballpark!
>>>
>>> Maybe if the stimulus were $7.4 trillion, not $740 billion. But, hey,
>>> what's a factor of 10 or so between friends, eh?
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is it true that the amount of money spent in "stimulus" plans would
>>>> be equal
>>>> to or less than the government writing every household in America a
>>>> $70k or
>>>> $80k check?
>>>>
>>>> Something tells me that would have been better use of taxpayer funds
>>>> to
>>>> "stimulate" the economy rather than what has and is been done so
>>>> far...
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:34 PM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>>>
>>>> Too bad this isn't really helping much. I am heading to a Public
>>>> Hearing
>>>> right now for our school district. Even with the stimulus money,  
>>>> they
>>>> are still talking about getting rid of 20-30 teachers and counselors
>>>> next school year. And the year after that there may be that many  
>>>> more.
>>>> That's a 10-15% reduction in our school district.
>>>>
>>>> So now it's looking like we did a $700 Billion dollar "loan", and we
>>>> are
>>>> STILL going to have a ton more layoffs and businesses going out of
>>>> business. :(
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>> Microserv
>>>>
>>>> RickG wrote:
>>>>> Where is this headed?
>>>>> http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/recovery/factsheet/overview.html
>>>>> Is this an income stream possibility for a WISP?
>>>>> -RickG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>
>>>>>

Re: [WISPA] schools

[George Rogato]

I knew you would pick up on that !

:)

George

Brad Belton wrote:
> Oh!!!...you just hit the nail on the head!  If the money is for me...well
> then it's ok.  Someone else and then it's not.  
> 
> That's why I'm for the $7k, $20k, $80k (whatever it is) check sent to my
> home address made out to Yours Truly instead!  
> 
> Then we're all benefiting and can stimulate the economy as we each see fit.
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of George Rogato
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:23 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
> 
> I heard from my far right wing buddy, that the plan is to get to $15 
> Trillion by the time they are all done.
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> For the record, I am not sure if anyone else has noticed, but I have yet 
> to actually meet anyone, anyone from the far left to the far right, and 
> we have plenty of both around here, that think any of this bail out is 
> worth while.
> I hear, give Americans a free tax year and let us stimulate that way. I 
> hear let them fail, it's natural for the weak to fail, and it;s there 
> own fault.
> But I just have not heard one person say, I agree what a great idea. And 
> I come across a lot of people.
> 
> 
> I like the idea money will be spent on broadband, but not citigroup, myself.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> Chuck Bartosch wrote:
>> LOL, dude, some pretty trivial math would tell you that's clearly not  
>> even in the ballpark!
>>
>> Maybe if the stimulus were $7.4 trillion, not $740 billion. But, hey,  
>> what's a factor of 10 or so between friends, eh?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
>>
>>> Is it true that the amount of money spent in "stimulus" plans would  
>>> be equal
>>> to or less than the government writing every household in America a  
>>> $70k or
>>> $80k check?
>>>
>>> Something tells me that would have been better use of taxpayer funds  
>>> to
>>> "stimulate" the economy rather than what has and is been done so  
>>> far...
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>>
>>> Too bad this isn't really helping much. I am heading to a Public  
>>> Hearing
>>> right now for our school district. Even with the stimulus money, they
>>> are still talking about getting rid of 20-30 teachers and counselors
>>> next school year. And the year after that there may be that many more.
>>> That's a 10-15% reduction in our school district.
>>>
>>> So now it's looking like we did a $700 Billion dollar "loan", and we  
>>> are
>>> STILL going to have a ton more layoffs and businesses going out of
>>> business. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> RickG wrote:
>>>> Where is this headed?
>>>> http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/recovery/factsheet/overview.html
>>>> Is this an income stream possibility for a WISP?
>>>> -RickG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> 
>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
> 
>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives:

Re: [WISPA] schools

[George Rogato]

I heard from my far right wing buddy, that the plan is to get to $15 
Trillion by the time they are all done.

Seriously.

For the record, I am not sure if anyone else has noticed, but I have yet 
to actually meet anyone, anyone from the far left to the far right, and 
we have plenty of both around here, that think any of this bail out is 
worth while.
I hear, give Americans a free tax year and let us stimulate that way. I 
hear let them fail, it's natural for the weak to fail, and it;s there 
own fault.
But I just have not heard one person say, I agree what a great idea. And 
I come across a lot of people.


I like the idea money will be spent on broadband, but not citigroup, myself.

George


Chuck Bartosch wrote:
> LOL, dude, some pretty trivial math would tell you that's clearly not  
> even in the ballpark!
> 
> Maybe if the stimulus were $7.4 trillion, not $740 billion. But, hey,  
> what's a factor of 10 or so between friends, eh?
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Chuck
> 
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
> 
>> Is it true that the amount of money spent in "stimulus" plans would  
>> be equal
>> to or less than the government writing every household in America a  
>> $70k or
>> $80k check?
>>
>> Something tells me that would have been better use of taxpayer funds  
>> to
>> "stimulate" the economy rather than what has and is been done so  
>> far...
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
>> On
>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
>>
>> Too bad this isn't really helping much. I am heading to a Public  
>> Hearing
>> right now for our school district. Even with the stimulus money, they
>> are still talking about getting rid of 20-30 teachers and counselors
>> next school year. And the year after that there may be that many more.
>> That's a 10-15% reduction in our school district.
>>
>> So now it's looking like we did a $700 Billion dollar "loan", and we  
>> are
>> STILL going to have a ton more layoffs and businesses going out of
>> business. :(
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> RickG wrote:
>>> Where is this headed?
>>> http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/recovery/factsheet/overview.html
>>> Is this an income stream possibility for a WISP?
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
> 
> If all is not lost, where is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] schools

[George Rogato]

Not sure Brad.

I was doing some math the other day.
$1 Trillion divided by the US population of 303,824,640=
$3291.37 USD per person.

Question is, what is a household?

Average household size. 2.59

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts ( Has 2007 population 
statistics)


Answer:" $8,524.6483 per average American household.

See all they got to do is raise our taxes and it will be paid off in no 
time.

(Was meant to be sarcastic)


Hope this was helpful.

George




Brad Belton wrote:
> Is it true that the amount of money spent in "stimulus" plans would be equal
> to or less than the government writing every household in America a $70k or
> $80k check?  
> 
> Something tells me that would have been better use of taxpayer funds to
> "stimulate" the economy rather than what has and is been done so far...
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] schools
> 
> Too bad this isn't really helping much. I am heading to a Public Hearing 
> right now for our school district. Even with the stimulus money, they 
> are still talking about getting rid of 20-30 teachers and counselors 
> next school year. And the year after that there may be that many more. 
> That's a 10-15% reduction in our school district.
> 
> So now it's looking like we did a $700 Billion dollar "loan", and we are 
> STILL going to have a ton more layoffs and businesses going out of 
> business. :(
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> RickG wrote:
>> Where is this headed?
>> http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/recovery/factsheet/overview.html
>> Is this an income stream possibility for a WISP?
>> -RickG
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower

[George Rogato]

Just noticed Adam, your in Great Barrington, Very nice area.
I'm from the other side of Mass myself.
I remember those thunder storms.


Adam Goodman wrote:
> Is there anyone doing this in a frequent lightning area? We are in
> Massachusetts and last summer we had a %^#^% of a time keeping up. We did a
> lot of work improving grounding but I am still worried.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:22 PM,  wrote:
> 
>> Run a separate 12 or 14 awg for your DC power. The 24awg isn't enough size
>> to power multiple radios.
>>
>> /Eje
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Adam Goodman 
>>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:07:55
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
>>
>>
>> OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David  wrote:
>>
>>> 24/4 =6
>>>
>>>
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
 Behalf Of Adam Goodman
 Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower

 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out
 for
 the POE?





 On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton  wrote:

> A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard
 CAT5
> runs.
>
> Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout
 the
> cable into a patch panel or punch down block.  From there then run
> individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment.
>
> Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm
 talking
> about.  Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical
 panel
> rather than the punch down block.  Bottom side of the run is simply
 punched
> down into a patch panel.
>
> This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code.  For
 the
> correct color code look here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
> Behalf Of Adam Goodman
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top
 and
> bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower
 and
> run
> shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from
 the
> patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc.
>
> Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and
 do
> you
> use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair?
>
>
>
> -
 ---
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> -
 ---
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> -
 ---
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> -
 ---
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>

 ---
 -
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 ---
 -

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http

Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

[George Rogato]

My experience with antenna patterns has been that they are not accurate 
in all distances. It's either that or I don't understand them.
To give you a couple examples.
I have a 900MHz yagi, that has a miraculous connection @ 90* of the 
center 1 mile out.

I was surprised that I even got a signal and to my amazement there it was.

I've seen this close up with rootennas that I use to cover a small swath 
of an area for the extra power boost and to keep the noise level down 
outside of the intended coverage area.
You get close and it's almost omni like. I have hot customers off the 
back side.

I suppose that is the difference between a high quality antenna and 
cheap ones. And I bet when I get a few miles out the pattern is very 
accurate.



Brian Webster wrote:
> Brian,
> Go to the Radio Mobile group on yahoo. There you can search the archives
> and or files sections. The archives will explain how to make your own
> antenna file if you can find a suitable one for your use. For example if you
> are trying to create a 60 degree antenna pattern you could use a similar one
> in the files section. The laws of physics dictate that the pattern won't be
> that much different from one manufacturer to the other.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>   -Original Message-
>   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>   Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:05 PM
>   To: WISPA General List
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> 
> 
>   I'm trying to figure out coverage around access points.
> 
>   Eric Muehleisen wrote:
> FYI...If your using RadioMobile as a path calculator for PtP links, the
> antenna pattern is irrelevant. Using an omni antenna for both TX and RX
> will give you accurate numbers.
> 
> -Eric
> 
> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>   So, I have been working on radio mobile for the past couple days.  I
> need to make my antenna patterns.  I use ubiquiti powerstations and
> need to find the info on the antenna.  How do I look up that info on
> the fcc website?  FCC Part 15.247, IC RS210 is the info I have from
> the data sheet.  Will that work?
> 
> Brian
> 
> Mike Hammett wrote:
> Yeah, lot lower risk that way.
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:26 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> 
> 
>   Ha...pretty funny.  I don't buy from an EBay seller unless they DO
> take
> PayPal.
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Brad
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 10:41 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> 
> Ok, I finally figured out how to send payment to you.  I HATE paypal
> I
> had to create an account in order to send this.  I don't even buy things
> from ebay if they only take paypal, that's how much I appreciate your
> helping me
> 
> Anyway, what's next?
> 
> thanks,
> marlon
> 509.988.0260
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> 
> 
> 
> For Terrain data, set up RM to automatically grab the correct
> terrain
> data as needed.
> - Open RM
> - Options
> - Internet
> - Internet ftp directory -> other -> Enter the following ftp appending
> your region at the end
> ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/
> 
> To determine your region:
> ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_definition.jpg
> 
> Check ZIP
> 
> So if you are region 2 your FTP address will look like:
> ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_02/
> 
> Let me know when you have this set up.
> 
> As far as payment, you can do PayPal without an account - just send it
> to jrichard...@aircloud.com.
> 
> 
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:25 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> 
> I understand that.  Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it?
> 
> Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy!  How hard can it be to
> put a good install program in place?  Or a map (hey, what a thing for a
> mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data
> you are interested in
> marlon
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark McElvy" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> 
> 
> 
>   You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do
> what
> 
> it
> 
>   can.
> 
> -Original Message-
> Fr

Re: [WISPA] Best Practice: Sealing Coax Connectors WAS:HyperlinkCoax Jumpers

[George Rogato]

I don't know, as I understand it Mark was talking about mountain top 
with extreme elements.

I live on the Oregon Coast, Oregon = lots of rain, the coast, lots of 
wind and rain.
I have been taping for 10 years and must have 2,000 radios hung at least 
in all that time, and quality rubber tape and a vinyl layer has worked 
without issue.

Heck, I've has two connectors that were untapped for a couple years that 
when I took them apart, where as dry as a bone and had no problems. One 
of them, the guys back yard was the ocean and the other a 1/2 mile away.

What causes issues is when a person does a bad job tapping.

When using tape, you have to stretch the tape and wrap with pressure. 
loose fitting tape is just asking for trouble. it creates little voids 
where water will sit and seep in. A tightly pulled rubber tape things 
out to almost teflon and gets into all the small pours of the joint. A 
few layers of rubber pulled tight is pretty much fool proof.



Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Anything that's easy to take off also won't hold water out as well
> 
> I tried the vinyl tape, rubber tape, vinyl tape thing.  Once.  It didn't 
> leak (you go past the vinyl tape by a quarter to a half inch) but I just 
> couldn't bring myself to do it again.  I'd rather take the time to remove 
> the good stuff than take the time in bad weather to fix the easy stuff.
> 
> Here's the trick to pulling the rubber tape off.  Split it (lightly and 
> carefully so you don't go thought the outer cable jacket) then start peeling 
> it back with a needle nose pliers.  Work from the cut outward, on both 
> sides, a little at a time.  Pretty soon you'll get to the point that you can 
> just twist the pliers and the whole mess will come off pretty easily.  Takes 
> me about 5 minutes nowadays.
> 
> marlon
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Practice: Sealing Coax Connectors 
> WAS:HyperlinkCoax Jumpers
> 
> 
>> There are two methods I can say work.
>>
>> Electrical tape the entire thing then cover it in coax seal.  The purpose 
>> of
>> the electrical tape is only to "easily" remove all the gunk off of the 
>> coax
>> connector.  I personally spend $10 on a new cable and seal then spending 
>> 15
>> to 30 minutes minimum trying to clean it off.  Coax seal does a beautiful
>> job of keeping the weather out.  The worst part about Ohio weather is that
>> we can get a build up of ice and have it melt and freeze within 24 hours.
>> Finding how to seal our gear was a difficult task but has been solved.
>>
>> For the last couple of years we quit using PacWireless enclosures and 
>> stick
>> with the no name brand "2 or 4 n hole enclosure" with ribs and U bolts.
>> Coax connectors sealed with a good foot of coax seal, from enclosure to 
>> the
>> factory sealer of the coax cable.  No problems in the last year or two 
>> since
>> doing this.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>> --- Henry Spencer
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:
>>
>>> Is the electrical tape just to hold the coax-seal in place?
>>>
>>> Mark Nash
>>> UnwiredWest
>>> 78 Centennial Loop
>>> Suite E
>>> Eugene, OR 97401
>>> 541-998-
>>> 541-998-5599 fax
>>> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "RickG" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Practice: Sealing Coax Connectors WAS:
>>> HyperlinkCoax Jumpers
>>>
>>>
 Coaxseal and good electrical tape. LOL, I had one tower where the 
 pigeons
 would peck at the connectors, so I added metal foil tape over the
 connection. That took care of that!
 -RickG

 On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:

> The only thing we use to seal these connectors is fusion tape from 
> GB.
>>> I
> can get it from the local hardware store.  I suspect that this is a
> problem.
>
> How is everyone sealing connectors on towers?  This one particular 
> site
>>> is
> at 3100ft so it gets wind and cold.  Snow & ice on it for a few 
> 2-week
> periods per year.  Lots of rain during the winter.  It's been the 
> worst
>>> for
> coax failures.
>
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers
>
>
>> I have used custom made ones from Tessco as well as the pre mades
>>> ones
> from
>> Wisp Router and other places.  The last few years I have not

Re: [WISPA] Knowing when to stop doing installs yourself, they are for the young

[George Rogato]

A face plate is only like .25 unless you add a ring.

What I do, quite a bit, is I drill under the based board. I pull the 
carpet back away from and under the baseboard and usually you will find 
a space between 1/4" and 1/2" there. Thats where I drill. No holes 
exposed and the carpet just tucks back in and it's clean.
Not the most professional way to do it.

Also, the home dictates how far we go to make it look good.
If it's one of those houses where everything is perfect and could be on 
the cover of a magazine, we do what ever is needed to make it 
aesthetically pleasing.

On the other hand, if it's an old broken down house or an old trailer, 
needless to say, it just has to be neat and clean, but a wire run down 
and around the house is acceptable.

Guess it doesn't take much to figure which houses we like to wire on.
Some of those are the 30 minute installs I crave.




Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> This is how we do it too.  If you want a face plate, you are going to 
> pay for it.
> We get maybe 1 out of 100 who want a face plate.
> 
> Brian
> 
> Joe Miller wrote:
>> Marlon,
>>
>> You are joking..right?
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Marlon K. Schafer  wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> From: Marlon K. Schafer 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Knowing when to stop doing installs yourself, they are 
>>> for the young
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 8:30 AM
>>> Who uses wall plates anyway?  We just try to get the hole
>>> right at the top 
>>> of the baseboards.  Then, someday when all this is gone and
>>> some new 
>>> technology (TV band with no external antenna?) replaces it
>>> they'll just have 
>>> to plug one small hole and give it a dab of paint!
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Scott Reed"
>>> 
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 9:08 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Knowing when to stop doing installs
>>> yourself, they are 
>>> for the young
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>> Don't they still make plates with just a 1/4"
>>>>   
>>> hole in it.  No need to 
>>> 
>>>> drill.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> George Rogato wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> I was trying to drill a hole into a blank wall
>>>>> 
>>> plate. All of the sudden,
>>> 
>>>>> it shattered into about 10 pieces.
>>>>>
>>>>> That happens a lot with a typical bakerlite type
>>>>> 
>>> wall plate.
>>> 
>>>>> Next time you buy blank plates, try to find the
>>>>> 
>>> lexan flexible ones.
>>> 
>>>>> Everyone makes them, they are rubber like and when
>>>>> 
>>> you drill a hole in
>>> 
>>>>> it, it doesn't crack or shatter.
>>>>> They come in white ivory etc and like I said,
>>>>> 
>>> everyone makes them ,
>>> 
>>>>> Leviton, eagle, p&s, hubble etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> They cost no more.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives:
>>>>> 
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1985 -
>>>>> 
>>> Release Date: 03/05/09 
>>> 
>>>>> 0

Re: [WISPA] Knowing when to stop doing installs yourself, they are for the young

[George Rogato]

I had a partner years ago was a computer guy.
We opened a new store in another city and he wanted to have a hole cut 
in the wall for a big window type deal between the retail end and the 
tech desk.

I told him to wait till I cam up to do some other work.

Instead he took one of my small trim skill saws and decided he could cut 
a hole in a wall.

True story.

He take the skill saw and he lays it against the wall about eye level 
and places his face, his eye in particular, right in front of the blade 
of the saw, so he could see where it was going.


SPLINTERS!

Splinters in the eye when he pulled that trigger.

Note to others, wear safety gogles and maintanine safe distance away 
from the saw.






Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
> One of my phone techs thought that he could go out and do local service 
> calls when the phones weren't busy.  This guy is pretty big - probably 
> about 350 or so at the time and not the most nimble person in the world.  
> 
> He stopped by the customer's house and went to look at his router, which 
> was up in the attic above the guys garage.   Apparently, he lost his 
> balance on the ladder and went through the drywall ceiling next to the 
> attic access and dropped about 15 feet to the concrete floor.   He was 
> alright (miraculously) and the homeowner was actually pretty 
> understanding about the situation.
> 
> I asked the tech how it went down, and he said that when he started 
> falling off the ladder, he just did a "tuck and roll".   Which made me 
> feel a little better, because the image of him leaving a giant-sized 
> human outline with arms and legs flailing as he went through the drywall 
> was stuck in my head and causing me to tear up from laughing so hard.   
> I thought it was probably like a combination of the Kool-Aid man and 
> Sesame Street muppets going through walls.
> 
> He doesn't do service calls any more.  :^)
> 
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Miller wrote:
>> This should make for a good read, or a good laugh.
>>
>> This week, my installer has been out of town. However, business still goes 
>> on. I decided to do some of the installs while he is away. Nothing was 
>> different about these installs from the hundreds of installs that I've done 
>> in the past. 
>>
>> The first install that I did on Tuesday of this week resulted in drilling a 
>> small hole in my right hand. I was trying to drill a hole into a blank wall 
>> plate. All of the sudden, it shattered into about 10 pieces. What the hell 
>> was I thinking. I've never tried to do that in the past. I've always used a 
>> 2x4 or something like that to back it up to keep that from happening. It was 
>> getting late and I took a short cut. My right hand is still paying the price 
>> for that one.
>>
>> The second install resulted in putting my foot through the ceiling due to 
>> not have full use of my right hand from the install the day before. Walking 
>> around in ceilings requires the use of both hands. Well, my right hand, 
>> still in pain from the install the day before, was having issues with it 
>> being used. Anyway, while moving around in the attic area for the third time 
>> to fish up my cat5 cable and to remove the tools that I put up there, I 
>> slipped on one of the ceiling joists and put my foot through the sheetrock. 
>> I though the homeowner was going to come unglued, but he was pretty cool 
>> about it. He was more concerned about me than his ceiling. In order to save 
>> face, I gave him the $249.00 install for free, gave him the new router and 
>> USB wireless adapter (cost of $100.00) for free as well. Along with a free 
>> months service of $49.95. This was to help cover the cost of the repair of 
>> the sheetrock. The hole in the ceiling was the size of my size 13 shoe.
>>  And of course I'm really sore this morning writing this.
>>
>> Anyway, the whole point of writing this is that there is a time in 
>> everyone's life when you have to leave the installs to the younger ones. I'm 
>> not saying I'm too old to do this, but after running cable in houses for 
>> over 20 years, it is time to let others take care of it. Even if it means 
>> putting off installs for new customers. As the VP of Operations for my 
>> company, I've always had the "just get it done" attitude. There is nothing 
>> that my company does that I cannot do, and I have. It doesn't mean that "I" 
>> have to do them. When that time comes, you just have to learn how to 
>> delegate those jobs out.
>>
>> Now that everyone has had a laugh at my expense, (it's ok). Maybe someone 
>> here can learn from what I did this week and not make the same mistakes. The 
>> main thing is that we do our jobs well. And above all...we do them safely.
>>
>> Joe Miller
>> DSLbyAir, LLC
>> 228-238-2563
>> www.dslbyair.com
>>
>>
>>   
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> ---

Re: [WISPA] Best Practice: Sealing Coax Connectors WAS: HyperlinkCoax Jumpers

[George Rogato]

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
 > My understanding is the Vinyl tape is more solar resistant than the
 > black rubber...
 >
 > ryan

Not sure about this.
I use rubber and sometimes we put vinyl tape as a 2nd layer.
But I have never seen the rubber tape fail, except, the cheap junk you 
get in a true value harware store that has a plastic layer you peel off.
That stuff disintergrates, shouldn't be used for anything I can think of.

We use 3m and it's high quality. I stretch it out pretty far and it 
really covers tight.

Something else we used as electricians in the past that I may have tried 
years ago to add aditional sealing, was liguid rubber.
3m or scotch make a liquid rubber product that you brush on and coats 
the tape that is used. It's called "Scotch Coat" in the electrical trade.
It's an additional layer of protection.

Downside, as you can imagine, it's kinda messy to work with.




> 
> Mark Nash wrote:
>> Is the electrical tape just to hold the coax-seal in place?
>>
>> Mark Nash
>> UnwiredWest
>> 78 Centennial Loop
>> Suite E
>> Eugene, OR 97401
>> 541-998-
>> 541-998-5599 fax
>> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "RickG" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Practice: Sealing Coax Connectors WAS:
>> HyperlinkCoax Jumpers
>>
>>
>>   
>>> Coaxseal and good electrical tape. LOL, I had one tower where the pigeons
>>> would peck at the connectors, so I added metal foil tape over the
>>> connection. That took care of that!
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
 The only thing we use to seal these connectors is fusion tape from GB.
   
>> I
>>   
 can get it from the local hardware store.  I suspect that this is a
 problem.

 How is everyone sealing connectors on towers?  This one particular site
   
>> is
>>   
 at 3100ft so it gets wind and cold.  Snow & ice on it for a few 2-week
 periods per year.  Lots of rain during the winter.  It's been the worst
   
>> for
>>   
 coax failures.

 Mark Nash
 UnwiredWest
 78 Centennial Loop
 Suite E
 Eugene, OR 97401
 541-998-
 541-998-5599 fax
 http://www.unwiredwest.com
 - Original Message -
 From: "Josh Luthman" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:22 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers


   
> I have used custom made ones from Tessco as well as the pre mades ones
> 
 from
   
> Wisp Router and other places.  The last few years I have not had any
> problems though it may have been due to the fact we put so much coax
> 
>> seal
>>   
> around them.  Do you seal it with coax seal (or comparable material)?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:
>
> 
>> We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas
>>   
>> prior
>>   
 to
   
>> that we don't recall a problem.  They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers
>>   
 from
   
>> Hyperlink.
>>
>> Anyone else have a problem?
>>
>> Any recommendations on best source for them?
>>
>> We normally only use them on backhauls & APs, so when they go bad
>>   
>> it's
>>   
 a
   
>> big frustrating problem.
>>
>> Mark Nash
>> UnwiredWest
>> 78 Centennial Loop
>> Suite E
>> Eugene, OR 97401
>> 541-998-
>> 541-998-5599 fax
>> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>>
>>
>>
>>   
> 
>>> --
>>> 
 --
   
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>   
> 
>>> --
>>> 
 --
   
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>   
> 
>>> --
>>> 
 --
   
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>>> --
>>> 
 --
   
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> 

Re: [WISPA] The good college try

[George Rogato]

Brian

It's bits for transfer and bytes for file sizes.

Lots of people get that mixed up.

Hope that helps

George


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> I wear that hat.  "Jack of all trades, master of none"
> 
> Today, I drove by rental house down the road and saw dish tv being 
> installed.  I turned around to go tell the new renter I had wireless 
> internet in the area. (I always find sat tv subs are likely to want 
> internet) So, I go tell him and he says how fast is your service?  I 
> say, 3-4 meg down and 1-2 meg up.  He says megabytes or megabits?  I 
> stuttered for a bit and said, ya know, like a t1 is 1.5 meg, my service 
> is twice as fast.  Tell you what, I felt like a moron.  After five years 
> of "doing it all" it sure seems like I would know a bit from a byte.  Oh 
> well, at least I got the subscriber. 
> So, like I said.  Jack of all trades, master of none.
> 
> Brian
> 
> RickG wrote:
>> I can identify with both of you. I do it all but it becomes overwhelming at
>> times!
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:14 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Forbes, I'm not far away from you, and if you ever need network type help,
>>> feel free to holler.
>>>
>>> I love the technical stuff.   Don't much care for the paperwork or installs
>>> in the rain, or climbing ladders, or climbing into the bucket on the
>>> truck...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Forbes Mercy" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:44 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] The good college try
>>>
>>>
>>> 
 The modern day WISP that is smaller has to run more efficiently, I lost
 my system admin in the last budget cut.  He helps from his new job but
 the network is pretty much up to me, a former ISP owner and not the most
 technically inclined as I should be.  Obviously I have more knowledge
 than the average bear but reading code, design specs or engineering can
 sometimes be a bit much, that's why I have the savings from a full time
 admin to hire people who can guide me.  My feeling is Marlon is pretty
 much in the same boat.  While some in WISPA have thousands of customers
 in more urban/suburban environments we are all rural.  Speaking only for
 myself I'm frequently in over my head, that's why I belong to this
 group, I'm a much better businessman than tech but I learn easily when I
 have interest in a topic.  We try not to look dumb when we ask for help
 and try to compensate for the help with volunteering for projects,
 paying for consulting or just a big thanks.  Some on here may think
 non-geeks don't belong but we're all in this for the same reason, I
 personally left the Fire Service to learn and build this business, Maybe
 I can't engineer a backhaul but I can sure do CPR if you need it, done
 it over 200 times.  Just show a little patience and if you don't want to
 educate the ignorant that's your right but we sure appreciate it when
 you can help and I for one promise to not ask for too much at once or
 act like our lovely customers who can't find the start button.  Thanks
 for what you do help, I appreciate it!



 Forbes



 

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:36 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul



 Marlon,

 Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in
 over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from
 someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are
 doing.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

 Thanks.

 Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network
 is
 build in a circle?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Travis Johnson"  
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 
 Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul




 Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop.
 Figure
 $15,000 per link for everything.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


 Hi All,

 I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to
 20 miles.  Some
 links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.

 I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal
 internet traffic.

 I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a
 ring.  I can load
 share
 across the ring as long as speeds never drop below
 100megs.  I'll want
 things to be automatically self healing if there is a
 loss of
 con

Re: [WISPA] Knowing when to stop doing installs yourself, they are for the young

[George Rogato]

I was trying to drill a hole into a blank wall plate. All of the sudden,
it shattered into about 10 pieces.

That happens a lot with a typical bakerlite type wall plate.

Next time you buy blank plates, try to find the lexan flexible ones.
Everyone makes them, they are rubber like and when you drill a hole in 
it, it doesn't crack or shatter.
They come in white ivory etc and like I said, everyone makes them , 
Leviton, eagle, p&s, hubble etc.

They cost no more.





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers

[George Rogato]

for n male to n male, we build our own.


Mark Nash wrote:
> We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior to 
> that we don't recall a problem.  They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from 
> Hyperlink.  
> 
> Anyone else have a problem?  
> 
> Any recommendations on best source for them?  
> 
> We normally only use them on backhauls & APs, so when they go bad it's a big 
> frustrating problem.
> 
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Friday History Humor

[George Rogato]

Wish I was there Rick.
Your a very funny guy.


RickG wrote:
> Yesterday I was buying 2 large bags of Purina dog chow at Wal-Mart, for my
> dogs Winston, Chief, Gus, and Maximus.
> 
> I was about to check out when a woman behind me asked if I had a dog.
> 
> What did she think, that I had an elephant? Since I had little else to do,
> on impulse, I told her that no, I didn't have a dog, and that I was starting
> the Purina Diet again, although I probably shouldn't because I ended up in
> the hospital last time. On the bright side though, I'd lost 50 pounds before
> I awakened in an intensive care ward with tubes coming out of every hole in
> my body and IVs in both arms. I told her that it was essentially a perfect
> diet and that the way that it works is to load your pockets with Purina
> nuggets and simply eat one or two every time you feel hungry and that the
> food is nutritionally complete so I was going to try it again. (I have to
> mention here that practically everyone in the line was enthralled with my
> story by now.)
> 
> 
> Horrified, she asked if I ended up in intensive care because the dog food
> had poisoned me. I told her no; I had stopped in the middle of the parking
> lot to lick my butt and a car hit me..  I thought the guy behind her was
> going to have a heart attack, he was laughing so hard!
> 
> WAL-MART won't let me shop there anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] [Sarcasm Alert] Yippee! Sprint "owns" the NTIA

[George Rogato]

I was going to suggest that clear wire would be the biggest winner in 
this stimulus package.
But I didn't want to throw a wet towel at anyone.

We still have to take a shot at it and get something.



John Scrivner wrote:
> Does anyone know the stock symbol for the company that makes KY Jelly?
> I think that is where I will be moving my portfolio to. I'll just go
> ahead now and predict that Sprint / Clearwire end up with a minimum of
> $3B, likely more.
> 
> 
> TODAY'S SPOTLIGHT... Former Sprint exec tapped as NTIA deputy director
> 
> The Obama administration has named a former Sprint Nextel executive,
> Anna Gomez, to serve as deputy director of the National
> Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA), which will
> handle as much as $6.65 billion in new stimulus wireless and broadband
> grants that will be available to Sprint and its competitors.
> 
> Gomez, former vice president of government affairs with Sprint, is
> currently acting director of NTIA, which influences the president's
> telecom policy within the Commerce Department.
> 
> NTIA spokesman Bart Forbes said in an interview with the Wall Street
> Journal that Gomez understands that the public has "every right to be
> concerned about her role in a potential broadband grant program,"
> because of her history with Sprint. "She is discussing this with the
> ethics office and will look to remove herself from the decision-making
> process" for grant applications where appropriate, he said.
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] 900 CPE

[George Rogato]

And you may want to do yourself a favor and  try to not use an omni.


Forbes Mercy wrote:
> I love the Nano's for 2.4 but they don't come in 900MHZ, I have a small
> town that loves trees and while I service most of them with 2.4 we have
> to turn a lot of them down for trees.  I have a third slot in my
> Microtik so I thought I'd drop in a 900 AP chip and put up an Omni and
> then I need fairly inexpensive CPE.  Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Forbes Mercy
> President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> forbes.me...@wabroadband.com
> www.wabroadband.com
> Fax 509-853-0856 |Ofc 509-853-0858
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of jp
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:17 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance
> 
> Without good insurance, there are a lot of things you can't do and 
> places you can't go. We're with Chubb right now and looking into 
> Hartford. We have liability, E&O, and an umbrella. 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 11:12:21AM -0500, Mac Dearman wrote:
>>   My opinion of insurance is not good! (Insurance is a racket and of
> Satan
>> -hehehehe)
>>
>> When you buy insurance, buy what you can afford and all you can
> afford. It
>> has been our experience that we really haven't needed any insurance
> and it
>> has been a big waste of money, but I do know that for the other types
> of
>> insurance we have in place - - it's never enough when you do need to
> file a
>> claim. Don't read me wrong here - I am not saying that you don't need
>> insurance or that I don't have insurance - - I am simply saying that
> (with
>> hard work - not by luck) you will not ever need to file a claim and it
> will
>> appear to you as it does me (a waste) until some unfortunate time when
>> someone throws the monkey into the bicycle spokes and the ride ends
> abruptly
>> :-)
>>
>>  We have a $2M general liability policy w/o omissions
>>
>> Mac
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:31 AM
>>> To: WISPA List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Insurance
>>>
>>> What do you guys have for insurance policies?  I am working with my
>>> Hartford agent and I want to make sure I get what I need, but don't
> buy
>>> unnecessary policies.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ---
>>> -
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> ---
>>> -
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1662 - Release Date:
>>> 9/9/2008 10:47 AM
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[George Rogato]

Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as 
part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/