Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo repair

[J. Vogel]

This is true for me as well. I haven't seen a seal fail, and I do not
over-tighten the nuts. However, I HAVE had several fail after hail
knocks a hole in the top of the cover, and then over time, water is
funneled into the radio.  I have found a couple of radios that were half
full of water (or more) before they failed. Leaving the bottom loose may
help, so that the water can get out, rather than building up to the
point where it can get into the radio through the ethernet port.


Bill Gaylord wrote:
> I am in Northern Michigan and have never seen it either.  If you make 
> sure you do not over-tighten so that the seal is not deformed, it works 
> fine.  Also, leaving the bottom one a little loose, does not hurt 
> either.  We have over 500 in the field.
>
> Bill Gaylord, COO
> COLI Inc
>
>   


-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[J. Vogel]

Obviously, my ASCII art skills are lacking. :) You are correct.

Josh Luthman wrote:
> I think you mean straight up from the j-arm.  ASCII art didn't turn
> out from what I see.
>
> On 8/27/09, J. Vogel  wrote:
>   
>> I don't understand the need for the full "U" bend. Why wouldn't it work
>> going straight up from the facia/gable mount instead of continuing the
>> bend to get back over the roof? I would think that it would be stronger
>> and more rigid if the bends were all between the mounting points.
>> Perhaps I am missing something...
>>
>> ASCII art of what I am thinking below.
>>
>>
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>   |
>>___/
>>  /
>> |
>> |
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, the story on this is, the competitor dude, he bought the wisp from a
>>> friend of mine who was near death from cancer and he bought it to make
>>> cash,
>>> didn't know a thing about wifi or networking.  But the 2 motivators for
>>> him
>>> was, his guys were using 1/2" galvanized water pipe and fittings to make
>>> up
>>> mounts for whatever situation they were in..  Dunno how that was
>>> ever gonna work right and it never did.  When the wind blew these things
>>> would move about on the fittings and the guys would take forever making up
>>> some bracket out of legos, basically.  The second motivation is that the
>>> new
>>> owner of the wisp is an insurance agent and won't allow roof penetration,
>>> which is a good idea for anyone.  So somehow he came up with this pipe
>>> bent
>>> at the muffler shop idea and I have to say, it looks like a winner.
>>> Cheap,
>>> cheap, cheap and from what the guys say, they can have the bracket mounted
>>> in a matter of minutes.
>>>
>>> I'll see if I can locate one or two installs and get some pics.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>>
>> John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
>> http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
>> Vogel Enterprises LLC
>> Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>> 
>
>
>   




-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[J. Vogel]

I don't understand the need for the full "U" bend. Why wouldn't it work
going straight up from the facia/gable mount instead of continuing the
bend to get back over the roof? I would think that it would be stronger
and more rigid if the bends were all between the mounting points.
Perhaps I am missing something...

ASCII art of what I am thinking below.


  |
  |
  |
  |
  |
  |
  |
   ___/
 / 
|
|


Robert West wrote:
> Well, the story on this is, the competitor dude, he bought the wisp from a
> friend of mine who was near death from cancer and he bought it to make cash,
> didn't know a thing about wifi or networking.  But the 2 motivators for him
> was, his guys were using 1/2" galvanized water pipe and fittings to make up
> mounts for whatever situation they were in..  Dunno how that was
> ever gonna work right and it never did.  When the wind blew these things
> would move about on the fittings and the guys would take forever making up
> some bracket out of legos, basically.  The second motivation is that the new
> owner of the wisp is an insurance agent and won't allow roof penetration,
> which is a good idea for anyone.  So somehow he came up with this pipe bent
> at the muffler shop idea and I have to say, it looks like a winner.  Cheap,
> cheap, cheap and from what the guys say, they can have the bracket mounted
> in a matter of minutes.
>
> I'll see if I can locate one or two installs and get some pics.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>   

-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] TP--UPS-DC-12-9

[J. Vogel]

The RB411's I have been purchasing show input voltage under /system health.

John

Eje Gustafsson wrote:
> I do not believe the new boards does this do they? The RB230's and I think
> as well the RB532 could/would over SNMP report power levels and temps maybe
> the newer boards can't report temp but can report power over SNMP. 
>
> If I didn't understand Scott incorrectly the power supplied out from the
> controller is stabilized so you will either work or your dead. So to use DC
> voltage report you would need a separate board feeding directly of the
> battery and as power on the battery start to drain your NMS would have to
> trigger on a low voltage problem. 
>
> There is another issue here.. That is that the UPS battery is 12V and most
> RB dies or fail when the power goes under 11V. So the window of opportunity
> would be very small. Or am I missing something here? 
>
> / Eje
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 3:19 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Cc: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] TP--UPS-DC-12-9
>
> Iirc some mikrotik boards report dc voltage
>
> Sent from my Motorola Startac...
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2009, at 3:34 PM, "Eje Gustafsson"   
> wrote:
>
>   
>> If battery is removed, the power to the radio shuts off. The  
>> controller is
>> powered by the battery. There isn't at this time have a way to  
>> monitor the
>> battery voltage. They're (Tycon Power) working on it but no telling  
>> when
>> they might come up with a solution.
>>
>> I seen some pretty cool devices at ipenabled.com but they are not  
>> cheap.
>> http://www.ipenabled.com/sp2.html
>> http://www.ipenabled.com/dcv.html
>>
>> Don't see or know of any way in MT to have some sort of probe  
>> measurement of
>> DC voltage.
>> One solution which probably is the cheapest one and goes in line  
>> with your
>> Linksys unit would be to bastardize a Bullet2 (the $39 Ubiquiti  
>> device) and
>> either use it with the standard AirOS or load on your own software.  
>> In full
>> TX mode it uses 4watt and I would guess no more than 1watt if the
>> transmitter is disabled unfortunately the exact load levels are not  
>> in their
>> datasheet just the 4watt number.
>> Form factor vise it's as small you're going to get and at a very cheap
>> price. Alternative of course for size would be to use their  
>> MiniStation but
>> then you're talking $79 instead and slightly smaller footprint then  
>> a credit
>> card.
>>
>> / Eje
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
>> On
>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Or
>> isitgettingbetter?
>>
>> Yeah, I saw that post the other day. That outdoor UPS enclosure has  
>> my name
>> written all over it :-)
>> It should be great for those one radio serves all suites via CAT5,
>> industrial warehouse style, strip mall style roof installs
>>
>> While on topic...Anyone know.
>>
>> Does that power charger/inverter unit still pass line power to  
>> equipment if
>> the battery goes bad? (inline or standby?).
>>
>> Any good ideas on how to tell when the power goes out? For example,  
>> if a
>> breaker pops, 24 hours later the battery runs dead and still creates  
>> an
>> outage, if you don;t know power was cut.
>> One suggestion made was setup a second cheapo linksys router for  
>> $40, and
>> plug that in NOT on the batterty, and then remote monitor that  
>> device to
>> tell when power is down.
>> Although, with that unit, it might be hard to fit into the case, and  
>> may
>> draw unnecessary current. Any ideas on how to handle that? Do any of  
>> teh
>> Mikroik SBCs have i/o slots that can measure results of a relay or
>> something, to help with that?
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Or
>> isitgettingbetter?
>>
>>
>> 
>>> Someone sells those on this list...
>>>
>>>   
> http://www.wlanparts.com/product/TP-UPS-DC-12-9/UPS_Pro__Outdoor_UPS_with_Di
>   
>> e_Cast_Enclosure_12V_9AH.html
>> 
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>>> improbable, must be the truth."
>>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Tom DeReggi
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Ryan,

 I agree completely, and sympathise for the situation.

 But does your customer know that?


 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>

Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Or isitgettingbetter?

[J. Vogel]

I would use a RB411 as the "canary" board. cheap, reliable, scriptable,
AND has input voltage monitoring


Tom DeReggi wrote:
> 
>
> Any good ideas on how to tell when the power goes out? For example, if a 
> breaker pops, 24 hours later the battery runs dead and still creates an 
> outage, if you don;t know power was cut.
> One suggestion made was setup a second cheapo linksys router for $40, and 
> plug that in NOT on the batterty, and then remote monitor that device to 
> tell when power is down.
> Although, with that unit, it might be hard to fit into the case, and may 
> draw unnecessary current. Any ideas on how to handle that? Do any of teh 
> Mikroik SBCs have i/o slots that can measure results of a relay or 
> something, to help with that?
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Or 
> isitgettingbetter?
>
>
>   
>> Someone sells those on this list...
>> http://www.wlanparts.com/product/TP-UPS-DC-12-9/UPS_Pro__Outdoor_UPS_with_Die_Cast_Enclosure_12V_9AH.html
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Tom DeReggi 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Ryan,
>>>
>>> I agree completely, and sympathise for the situation.
>>>
>>> But does your customer know that?
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Ryan Ghering" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Or is
>>> itgettingbetter?
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Ohh agreed, redundant upstream is a must. However when a DS3 costs over
 
>>> 10
>>>   
 grand a month to get out of this area to a NON-Qwest system ( not
 including
 bandwidth ), for true redundancy it makes it not feasible. We are 
 trying
 to
 engineer a wireless backhaul out, but its taking some time to do so. 
 Its
 funny folks in the extreme rural areas, seem to think that we WISP's 
 and
 ISP's should have the same access to bandwidth and pricing as Metro 
 guys
 do.
 Yet, my cost per meg plus transport is about 280.00 per meg total,
 
>>> however
>>>   
 even in a city like Greeley, Colorado, you can get bandwidth plus
 transport
 for around 50.00 a meg or less.

 Its the burden of being a rural isp.

 Ohh and the customer still wants 20 meg down 5 meg up for 20 bucks a
 month,
 and it damn well better work 24/7 or its the end of the world lol

 Ryan

 On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

 
>  Technically, yes, this was your fault. The customer is paying YOU for
> service... not qwest. If you can't provide the service (regardless of
>   
>>> the
>>>   
> reason), then it's your fault.
>
> In our regional area, the ABC affiliate stopped selling to DISH 
> Network
> last year over the contract price. So if you had DISH (which I did), 
> you
> could no longer get ABC at all. This went on for over 6 months. Do you
> think
> everyone was mad at ABC or DISH? DISH is the one that had to start
>   
>>> giving
>>>   
> credits and take all the phone calls.
>
> You HAVE to have at least two separate upstreams or you are just 
> asking
> for
> these kind of problems.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> Ryan Ghering wrote:
>
> Yesterday, we had a long term upstream outage. Someone in Qwest killed
> our
> ATM upstream and somehow we were getting crosstalk to another ATM PVC.
> (Don't ask nobody can tell me how this was done).
>
> In the mean time customers are calling us screaming that they need 
> their
> net. Our staff politely informs them all day long that this isn't a
>   
>>> issue
>>>   
> with us, its upstream. Some customers accept that and move on for the
> day.
>
> However the kicker!! One of our customers which is a dedicated 3 meg
> calls
> up and asks, "Are you down" I say yes at this time the internet is 
> down
> due
> to a problem with qwest in Denver. The customer says "ok, do you have 
> an
> ETA?" I tell him no not at this time the problem is with qwest not 
> with
> us.
> Customer says "ok thanks" and hangs up.
>
> Not 20 minutes later I get a phone call from the customer, he's mad as
> hell
> and spitting nails. I on

Re: [WISPA] OT: Cordless VOIP Phone

[J. Vogel]

Interesting...  My Panasonic DECT 6.0 phones have better range than any
other cordless phone I have owned, including a couple of 900mhz ones.

John


Jeremy Parr wrote:
> Yeah, I have deployed quite a bit of DECT, but if he isn't running any
> 900mhz, then a Senao is a much better option. The range is very bad
> with the DECT stuff, even the fancy multi-thousand dollar "enterprise"
> base stations.
>
>
> 
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>   


-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Performance

[J. Vogel]

What cards are 4th generation and which ones are 6th?  How do you tell
which is which?

e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> All Atheros cards are capable of doing this. Just keep in mind that the 4th 
> gen cards even if they are set in 5/10MHz mode for broadcast still listen to 
> 20MHz wide channel. The 6th gen Atheros cards if set to 5/10MHz mode only 
> listen to 5 or 10MHz. 
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Luthman 
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:57:54 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Performance
>
>
> So you can use 10/5 mhz channels with
>
> Mikrotik (hopefully all cards?)
> Tranzeo
> Ubiquiti
>
> But not..
>
> StarOS
> WARP
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
>   
ng S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Splash Page

[J. Vogel]

I have a splash page such as what you are describing (
http://vogent.net:88/ ) but no CPE insurance program.

John

Ray & Jean wrote:
> Does anyone have a page they use when you cut off a customer for non-payment 
> and let them know that their internet has been suspended. Letting them know 
> what to do to activate it again, like making a payment. 
>
> Also, I want to have customers pay an insurance on their equipment, I seen 
> one on this list about a year ago and saved the link to use later but it no 
> longer works, I believe it was Mac Dearman. 
>
> It was a great program and I would like to use it, if I can.
>
> Thanks so much for your help!
>
> Jean Hill
> Surfmore.Net
>
>
> 
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>   


-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator

[J. Vogel]

Marlon referenced a new kill-a-watt that has an ethernet port, remote
monitoring, and power-cycling capability. I can't find any of those
features mentioned on any of the models on the kill-a-watt site, or on
the thinkgeek.com link you provided. Perhaps I missed it. Thanks for the
link though. :)

John

Vickie Edwards wrote:
> ThinkGeek has 3 different models of the Kill-a-Watt, as well as another
> meter-type gadget:
>
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/brain/whereisit.cgi?t=kill+a+watt&x=0&y=0
>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
>
> Got a link or a model number for that new Kill-a-Watt?  I can't find any
> info about it on their site.
>
> John
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>   
>> My biggest site (something like 9 radios now) is drawing under 20
>> 
> watts 
>   
>> these days.  Closer to 15 if my memory serves.
>>
>> To get that number I used one of the new kill-a-watt units that has an
>> 
>
>   
>> ethernet port on it.  A bit spendy but very cool.  It allows me to
>> 
> remotely 
>   
>> (through a company web site, not my own) monitor what's going on at a
>> 
> tower. 
>   
>> It will also do power cycling!  Other than the fact that it has to be
>> 
> sent 
>   
>> to the factory to get firmware updates (how's that for old fashioned?)
>> 
> I 
>   
>> love the unit.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:55 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> I have a new tower site and the owner ask how much electric I will
>>>   
> use.
>   
>>> How can I calculate that?  For now all I will have is one 24v 2amp
>>>   
> power
>   
>>> supply going to a rb433ah with an xr2 omni and a xr5 backhaul.
>>> I can roughly guess the price per kilowatt hr but I need to get an
>>> estimate on kw/hr first.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
>   
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
>   
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
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>>>
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>>> 
>>>   
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>>  
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>>   
>> 
>
>
>   


-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



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Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator

[J. Vogel]

Does it have ethernet, remote monitoring, or power-cycle capability?

John

Scott Carullo wrote:
> P4400 KILL A WATT is what I have
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>  Original Message --------
>   
>> From: "J. Vogel" 
>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:34 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
>>
>> Got a link or a model number for that new Kill-a-Watt?  I can't find any
>> info about it on their site.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> 
>>> My biggest site (something like 9 radios now) is drawing under 20 watts 
>>>   
>
>   
>>> these days.  Closer to 15 if my memory serves.
>>>
>>> To get that number I used one of the new kill-a-watt units that has an 
>>>   
>
>   
>>> ethernet port on it.  A bit spendy but very cool.  It allows me to 
>>>   
> remotely 
>   
>>> (through a company web site, not my own) monitor what's going on at a 
>>>   
> tower. 
>   
>>> It will also do power cycling!  Other than the fact that it has to be 
>>>   
> sent 
>   
>>> to the factory to get firmware updates (how's that for old fashioned?) 
>>>   
> I 
>   
>>> love the unit.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:55 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>>>> I have a new tower site and the owner ask how much electric I will 
>>>> 
> use.
>   
>>>> How can I calculate that?  For now all I will have is one 24v 2amp 
>>>> 
> power
>   
>>>> supply going to a rb433ah with an xr2 omni and a xr5 backhaul.
>>>> I can roughly guess the price per kilowatt hr but I need to get an
>>>> estimate on kw/hr first.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
> 
> 
>   
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>>>
>>>
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> 
> 
>   
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>> -- 
>>
>> John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
>> http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
>> Vogel Enterprises LLC
>> Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator

[J. Vogel]

Got a link or a model number for that new Kill-a-Watt?  I can't find any
info about it on their site.

John

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> My biggest site (something like 9 radios now) is drawing under 20 watts 
> these days.  Closer to 15 if my memory serves.
>
> To get that number I used one of the new kill-a-watt units that has an 
> ethernet port on it.  A bit spendy but very cool.  It allows me to remotely 
> (through a company web site, not my own) monitor what's going on at a tower. 
> It will also do power cycling!  Other than the fact that it has to be sent 
> to the factory to get firmware updates (how's that for old fashioned?) I 
> love the unit.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:55 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
>
>
>   
>> I have a new tower site and the owner ask how much electric I will use.
>> How can I calculate that?  For now all I will have is one 24v 2amp power
>> supply going to a rb433ah with an xr2 omni and a xr5 backhaul.
>> I can roughly guess the price per kilowatt hr but I need to get an
>> estimate on kw/hr first.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

[J. Vogel]

To borrow an often used quote from Randy on another list...
I encourage all of my competitors to do this.

John

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> I'd bet more often that is comes down to who you DON'T want to know.
>
> Brian
>

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

[J. Vogel]

Like I said, while far from perfect, my web site has been a valuable
asset. I don't do any advertising other than the web site and a couple
of small insignificant ads on community calendar type things -
(primarily as a donation to the non-profit groups sponsoring the
calendar). I get a number of calls from people who have found the web
site through a web search, and those people say things like "I see that
I am in the shaded area on your map", letting me know that they have
found me through the web site. Which reminds me that I need to update
the map to show my current (expanded) service area...

Blake Bowers wrote:
> Yours had contact info, coverage maps, area served,
> you would be surprised how many don't have those
> things.
>
> I suspect they just feel that people should know
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "J. Vogel" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion
>
>
>   
>> LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
>> are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
>> perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.
>>
>> Blake Bowers wrote:
>> 
>>> ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
>>> you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>> http://www.frostytowers.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> -- 
>>
>> John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
>> http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
>> Vogel Enterprises LLC
>> Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

[J. Vogel]

LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.

Blake Bowers wrote:
> ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
> you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven, 
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion
>
>
>   
>> http://www.frostytowers.com/
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> 
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

[J. Vogel]

My thought is that you are unlikely to get much of a response from
potential customers, although whatever response you did get would be a
strong incentive to any WISP in the area, and it is certainly doable,
Mikrotik could easily handle it. My reasoning is that all of my AP's
broadcast a domain name which I would think would be a strong clue to
anybody looking for service as to where to look for contact information,
but I get very few calls as a result of broadcasting that domain name.
Granted, having an informational page would be a better advertisement,
but I can't see it being that much better. I might try it on some of my
own APs.

Have you considered (or tried) contacting WISP's that  are in  proximity
to your towers? Do you have any towers close enough to me to do me any
good?

John Vogel

Blake Bowers wrote:
> I really don't want the hassle of providing the internet
> service - where to get the internet pipe, taking care of
> the customers, etc.  Not my core business, and not one
> I feel like I can provide well.
>
> I was thinking that adjoining area WISP's would be
> able to provide a pipe, either by their connections with
> regional providers, microwave backhaul, etc, they could
> take care of installs to expand their coverage area, etc.
>
> I want an enviroment where both the WISP and US
> can make some money.
>
> Now, your a smart guy.  If a tower owner in a town
> near your coverage area was able to bring to you a list
> of people that would be likely to sign up for service IF
> you had service available in that area, would you not look
> really hard at that?
>
> Me, I would be all over it like a fat kid on cake 
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven, 
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Scrivner" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion
>
>
> Why not go ahead and sell them the service over this? Just have it
> take them to the signup page and process their credit card, add to
> radius, activate service?
> Scriv
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Blake Bowers  wrote:
>   
>> I got towers. Lots of them. Many don't have any kind
>> of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
>> kind of high speed service of any kind.
>>
>> I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
>> period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
>> that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says
>>
>> "If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
>> call 800-467-2346"
>>
>> Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
>> calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
>> areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
>> there.
>>
>> A market study if you will.
>>
>> Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
>> such a thing?
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> 
>
>
>
> 
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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
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Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth

[J. Vogel]

Charles,

I would love to live in the world you describe here.  :)

Bandwidth cost dwarfs credit card processing cost where I live. It also
seems very optimistic to put 1000 customers on a 20mb link. At best, I
would think that if they are consuming ~20mbps, that you should have at
least twice that in capacity, so that means a full DS3, and the best
pricing I have gotten on a DS3 is in excess of $6k (and getting to that
requires a 25 mile wireless hop).  In many areas of the country,
$300-400/mbps is the rule for Nx/T1s.

John

Charles Wu wrote:
> Hi Hal,
>
> In the grand scheme of things...bandwidth / port costs are a minute fraction 
> of an ISP/WISPs operating expenses (heck, I find that for a residential 
> WISP...the credit card processing bill can be higher than the bandwidth bill)
>
> That said, look at it this way
>
> Based on our studies/trending...1,000 residential subscribers consume ~20 Mb 
> of bandwidth
>
> So...1,000 customers @ $40 / month = $40k / month in revenue
> If you're getting "hosed" and paying $200 / Mb, that's still only $4k / month
>
> Now...say there's a datacenter 40 miles away that has bandwidth for $50 / Mb 
> -- that's a total of $3k / month in savings
>
>
>   


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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth

[J. Vogel]

Where did you look?

Mike Hammett wrote:
> Someone once asked me what was in their area, so I looked.  There were I'm 
> recalling at least 4 major international carriers right in their town 
> must have been a landing station.  It pays to know what's in your area.  ;-)
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Harold Bledsoe" 
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:47 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth
>
>   
>> Those of you that are paying >$50/Mbps, what is keeping you from
>> building your own backhaul to cheaper bandwidth (wireless, dark fiber,
>> etc.)?  It seems to me that this would be a major consideration in the
>> business plan as this is a big MRC.  Don't wait for someone to bring you
>> cheap bandwidth...go get it!  :-)
>>
>> -Hal
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
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[WISPA] FYI - more news on stimulous/broadband

[J. Vogel]

Net neutrality and the broadband provisions in the stimulus bill

US Senator Dianne Feinstein hopes to update President Barack Obama's
$838bn economic stimulus package so that American ISPs can deter child
pornography, copyright infringement, and other unlawful activity by way
of "reasonable network management."

Clearly, a lobbyist whispering in Feinstein's ear has taken Comcast's
now famous euphamism even further into the realm of nonsense.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/11/feinstein_stimulus_amendment/

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Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] [Board] Lobbying Fund Drive Update

[J. Vogel]

Travis Johnson wrote:
> Also, one more quick thing it would be helpful if you would post the 
> Paypal address and mailing address at the bottom of every one of your 
> "update" emails... to make it easier for people. You could even post a 
> direct link to the Paypal account inside your email. :)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>   
>

I'll second that.

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Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good?

[J. Vogel]

My webmail software is Squirrelmail, which does put the authenticated
user in the header, but that didn't come back in the bounces (that I saw
anyway) but I was able to find the compromised account by searching the
"Sent" folders for some of the bounced recipient addresses. Picking an
address that wasn't likely to be one that my customers would have sent
to - such as in the .pl domain - quickly led me to a folder with lots of
spam messages in it. Searching for a line in the body of the spam email
would have been successful as well.  :)

John

David E. Smith wrote:
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>   
>> Are they using your webmail to send out the spam. Is there any way you can
>> tell what user's email address is compromised because all the "mail delivery
>> errors" I'm getting don't show one.
>> 
>
> Yeah, my latest few problem children have been using our Web site, and 
> cut-and-pasting in their spam, sending it out to just five or ten 
> recipients at a time so as to avoid our "you're not just a spammer but a 
> dumb spammer" trigger if you try to send to 1000 people at once.
>
> How to track it down depends on the mail software you use, obviously. 
> Mine (an older version of Ipswitch Imail) doesn't put any identifying 
> information in the email as such (no originating IP or 
> authenticated-user info). There are timestamps, though, which I can 
> correlate against the Web server logs.
>
> Right now, I'm torn between "trying to stop it at the Web server" using 
> some sort of IP geolocation filter, or "stop it before it leaves the 
> network" using a modified SpamAssassin installation. Both are giving me 
> all kinds of fits that are way off-topic for this list.
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[J. Vogel]

Actually, I wasn't trying to say that CPE prices would go down 50%, I
don't think they will. Just pulling nice round numbers out the hat. That
doesn't change my point though, that in a deflating economy, debt that is
being taken on will be repaid with dollars that are worth more and/or are
harder to come by, unless you are lucky enough to be in a sector of the
economy that isn't affected (as much) by the deflationary cycle. I hope
that we are in such a segment.

On Sat, January 3, 2009 3:01 pm, e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> Don't expect to see that price of the cpes will drop by 50%. At $60-$100
> there isn't much left to go lower. Especially considering shipping a cpe
> with integrated antenna $5 to $10 from manufacturing plans in asia.
> As well some semiconductor parts are currently going up instead of down as
> plans are being closed left and right. At current rate electronics will be
> up in price maybe as much as 20-30% in a year or two if things don't
> change soon.
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "J. Vogel" 
>
> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:44:48
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
> Another way of looking at it is that if deflation is occurring, and you
> have committed to pay for the CPE via leasing, you will be using future
> dollars that are worth more to pay for them, (e.g. at the time I commit
> to paying $100 for a cpe, each of those $100 would purchase a loaf of
> bread, but following the deflation of the dollar, each $dollar used to
> pay the lease would have purchased TWO loaves of bread.) so the real
> cost of those CPE is higher. That is even without figuring deflation on
> the CPE themselves. If deflation hits the CPE market as well, committing
> to pay $100 for CPE that 6 months from now will only cost $50 may not be
> a good position to be in.
>
> In any case, in a generally deflating market, pressure will be high to
> reduce prices, including subscription prices for Internet Access, so
> there may be fewer dollars available to pay those lease commitments,
> even though the dollars you do have are worth more.
>
> John
>
> Brian Webster wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>>   ... If however you bought all of that
>> equipment using credit and they deflate the dollar you have actually
>> hedged
>> against the deflation because your cash did not get deflated, yet you
>> are
>> still producing revenue on the other people's money you used. If you can
>> get
>> good credit terms and can make the numbers work I would personally
>> borrow
>> like crazy and expand to ramp up cash flow. The numbers will work if the
>> government doesn't cause deflation, but if they do it works out even
>> better.
>>
>>  People who have loans always make out better in deflationary times over
>> people who have hard cash assets. If you don't have assets they don't
>> lose
>> value. The person who built their business on cash or personal assets
>> loses
>> out twice. First the value of everything they already paid for
>> depreciated
>> in a big way and then the cash flow they are producing is buying less
>> because of inflation. Hope that makes sense..
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:23 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>>
>>
>> Chuck, I will contact you offlist. I have some question.
>> I have not tried SBA recently, and its time that I probably should,
>> before I
>> critisize the program.
>>
>> My point was... In past experience SBA enabled guaranteeing very low
>> rates, but SBA could sometimes be harder to get than traditional loans,
>> as
>> SBA required more documentation. Very few SBA loans get defaulted on,
>> because they have such strong requirements. I found the same thing with
>> RUS
>> loans.  The misconception by many is that SBA gives loans, which is not
>> the
>> case. SBA guarantees other bank loans. So those banks are giving loans
>> at
>> lower interest than they normally do, because of the SBA's guarantee.
>> But
>> the SBA still wants to cover themselves similar to any other lender. It
>> does
>> not get the borrower off the hook for proving credit worthiness, by
>> traditional industry methods. What I always found Ironic was that to ge

Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[J. Vogel]

Another way of looking at it is that if deflation is occurring, and you
have committed to pay for the CPE via leasing, you will be using future
dollars that are worth more to pay for them, (e.g. at the time I commit
to paying $100 for a cpe, each of those $100 would purchase a loaf of
bread, but following the deflation of the dollar, each $dollar used to
pay the lease would have purchased TWO loaves of bread.) so the real
cost of those CPE is higher. That is even without figuring deflation on
the CPE themselves. If deflation hits the CPE market as well, committing
to pay $100 for CPE that 6 months from now will only cost $50 may not be
a good position to be in.

In any case, in a generally deflating market, pressure will be high to
reduce prices, including subscription prices for Internet Access, so
there may be fewer dollars available to pay those lease commitments,
even though the dollars you do have are worth more.

John

Brian Webster wrote:
> Tom,
>
>   ... If however you bought all of that
> equipment using credit and they deflate the dollar you have actually hedged
> against the deflation because your cash did not get deflated, yet you are
> still producing revenue on the other people's money you used. If you can get
> good credit terms and can make the numbers work I would personally borrow
> like crazy and expand to ramp up cash flow. The numbers will work if the
> government doesn't cause deflation, but if they do it works out even better.
>
>   People who have loans always make out better in deflationary times over
> people who have hard cash assets. If you don't have assets they don't lose
> value. The person who built their business on cash or personal assets loses
> out twice. First the value of everything they already paid for depreciated
> in a big way and then the cash flow they are producing is buying less
> because of inflation. Hope that makes sense..
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:23 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
> Chuck, I will contact you offlist. I have some question.
> I have not tried SBA recently, and its time that I probably should, before I
> critisize the program.
>
> My point was... In past experience SBA enabled guaranteeing very low
> rates, but SBA could sometimes be harder to get than traditional loans, as
> SBA required more documentation. Very few SBA loans get defaulted on,
> because they have such strong requirements. I found the same thing with RUS
> loans.  The misconception by many is that SBA gives loans, which is not the
> case. SBA guarantees other bank loans. So those banks are giving loans at
> lower interest than they normally do, because of the SBA's guarantee. But
> the SBA still wants to cover themselves similar to any other lender. It does
> not get the borrower off the hook for proving credit worthiness, by
> traditional industry methods. What I always found Ironic was that to get the
> SBA loan, one had to prove they were turned down by other lenders. But then
> the SBA potentially would turn down applicants for the same reasons.
>
> All loans have the same requirement, proving 1) ability to pay back
> (pre-existing consistent cashflow and profit from revenue stream), 2) proven
> credit worthiness, 3) colateral.
> Getting a lower interest, just makes the lenders look more closely to prove
> the above.
>
> There are very few lenders that will lend based on a potential of a
> "business plan" (that does not have pre-existing good cash flow to back it
> up), or simply based on the merit of the business.  I find that borrowers
> that don't have problems getting loans are borrowers who have had a past
> life that had already established their high credit worthiness, usually via
> personal assets, or by having multiple officers to guarantee the loans.
>
> The big problem that I ran into was... I sold most of my traditional assets
> to fund my network build outs. And then invested all profit back into the
> business to build out the network, there fore increasing potential. And then
> Banks did not look at those network assets with a value, the same as they
> would if it was still real estate, so to speak, that was recognized as a
> safe liquitable asset.
>
> I have found that obtaining finance requires long term planning and
> preperation, to position oneself to look good to financers by their
> standards.  I have found that being more or less debt free, and owning a
> network, had no value to the lenders that I have talked to.
>
> Even with RUS matching fund loans, it seemed similar. They were more
> interested in what new money I'd put in, for them to match, and did not
> value the money already put in and spent..
>
> My company is growing, and my financials are improving to be loan worthy, so
> I won't have a finance pr

Re: [WISPA] Winter connectivity issues

[J. Vogel]

14 miles is not too far to cause interference.


On Wed, December 17, 2008 10:16 am, Mark McElvy wrote:
> My closest tower to this one is 14 miles. We are fairly rural.
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:52 AM
> To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Winter connectivity issues
>
> Try changing channels too.  Water *usually* give strange signal
> levels
> Looks more like interference to me.  Very possibly from some of your own
>
> towers???
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Winter connectivity issues
>
>
>> Water in connectors. When it freezes it crystalizes and gives a poor
>> connection. Maybe a cracked/broken antenna with moisture incursion.
>>
>> Antennas on towers are subject to falling ice regardless of the type
> of
>> antenna.
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Mark McElvy" 
>>
>> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:58:25
>> To: ; 
>> Subject: [WISPA] Winter connectivity issues
>>
>>
>> I have 4 tower locations, only one seems to be having issues. Last
> week,
>> then today I have a few customers on one tower having slow connection
>> issues. High ping times from less than 1 ms to 4-500ms with packet
> loss.
>> The one complaining customer has a -56 @ client end and -60 @ AP. The
>> common denominator is weather, it is currently about 10 deg F and we
> had
>> some, not a lot of freezing rain last night.
>>
>> This tower is running a RB 433 w/ XR2 and HPol omni. New in spring due
>> to lightning storm. The only time I experienced issues last year was
>> with heavy icing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thought? Would you think it's the ice or maybe freezing moisture
> in
>> the enclosure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark in South central Missouri
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
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Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



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Re: [WISPA] Vista VPN Question

[J. Vogel]

I think that link is what the OP needed, specifically to uncheck
"use default gateway on remote network" in the advanced properties
for IPv4 (and IPv6 if that is being used also).

If the vpn server is using DHCP to assign the vpn connection an
IP address in the netblock of the remote network, there shouldn't
be any need for additional static routes, (or if the connection is
statically assigned an appropriate address.) If such is not the case
there may be a need to add a static route to the remote network,
but I find that in most cases that is not necessary to accomplish
the task at hand.


Matt Hardy wrote:
> Like Charles said, if you were using a full DHCP server to give out VPN
> IP addresses, you could push routes to customers using DHCP options.
> But Mikrotik doesn't use a DHCP server for assigning PPTP IPs, just the
> IP Pools... so this isn't supported. 
>
> So I think your only options are client side... writing a batch file to
> reconfigure your routes after you connect?
> I saw this:
> http://www.isinc.com/2008/04/11/configuring-a-split-tunnel-pptp-vpn-in-windows-vista/
> You could give that a shot. Too bad it doesn't have a static routes
> section :)
>
> -Matt
>
> On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 00:08 -0600, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>   
>> PPTP VPN connection.
>>
>> I'll see what is supported in this regard.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Matt Hardy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:48 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vista VPN Question
>>
>> 
>>> What type of VPN are you using?
>>> Some allow publishing or advertising of routes to the client when the
>>> VPN is established
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 10:59 -0800, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Mike Hammett wrote:
 
> Is there a way to setup Vista so that only certain subnets are routed 
> over a VPN link?  It seems silly that a customer with a 16 meg Comcast 
> connection pushes all Internet traffic through the office's 2/2 
> connection.
>
>   
 There is a route command you can use from the command prompt. :)

 Or do it via DHCP options if your running a full DHCP server
 (Cisco,Linux,Windows NT/200(x).


 
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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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[WISPA] Power Supplies

[J. Vogel]

Some time in the last month, someone on one of the lists I follow posted a
link to wall-wart type 15v or 18v DC power supplies in the $4 or $5 dollar
range. I have lost the link. Can somebody point me in the right direction,
or possibly have recommendations for a source for such power supplies
(suitable for powering common cpe type radios through commmonly used
passive PoE injectors of course)..


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Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband

[J. Vogel]

It seems to me that in the ensuing discussion of this, there are several 
models
proposed that do not take into account any costs other than bandwidth cost.
I would think that one should calculate what it costs to aquire and 
maintain a
customer, including office/support/billing/equipment etc... which added 
together
are a significant part of "where the money goes". I read somewhere that 
bandwidth
is only 5-10% of the average ISP's budget. I wish that were my own 
experience.

I suspect that a base of $20-30/month would be a reasonable amount, BEFORE
adding any bandwidth cost. Then.. if it costs $1 or $2 per gig of data 
transfer,
that can be added to the base, perhaps calculating an amount that would 
cover
90+% of users and including that amount in the flat-rate MRC, and charging
overages for data transfers over that amount.

A simple $2/gig charge on a customer that only transfers 1 gig/month is 
going
to make that customer a losing proposition for me.

Mike Hammett wrote:
> So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service?  
> It obviously depends on what your costs are.  I'll just throw something out 
> to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs.
>
> $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits.
>
> $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits.
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
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Re: [WISPA] Some days I don't seem to know anything.

[J. Vogel]

Today I got another try at this. Customer told me that they had lost
all connectivity the last couple of days. When I left, the AP was set
on one of the three channels the internal PCI card would see, and
all was working. When I got back there today, the internal PCI card
would not see/connect to the ap even on the channel that had previously
been working. I had taken a Senao CB3 bridge with me today, with
the stock rubber-ducky antenna, thinking that if both it and my laptop
could connect, but the internal pci card with external antenna could
not, that might indicate the problem was with their computer.

Sure enough, when I plugged the CB3 in, it connected immediately.
I tried it while switching the AP to all the different channels.
Even when I took the antenna off of it to attempt to dissassociate it
from the AP (to resolve an IP address conflict) the CB3 remained
connected. I couldn't get it to disconnect. On any channel.

Could it be that the Dell desktop has something internal creating a lot
of RF noise? Or driver issues? This is an older couple, pretty rural, no
fancy stuff like Wireless cams, they do have a phone, but it is 5.8Ghz.
nearest neighbors are about 1/4 mile.

I suppose that my probable next step is to take another
desktop unit up there and put the PCI card in it to see what happens.

John

George Rogato wrote:
> It could be something else in the 2.4 gig range that is not wifi and 
> thats why you can't see it in a survey.
> Something that comes to mind, 2.4gig cameras. The proprietary ones that 
> are not wifi or ip cams.
>
> George
>
>
> J. Vogel wrote:
>   
>> Is it possible for interference to prevent a signal from showing up in a 
>> site
>> survey in Windows Zero Configuration utility? I set up a relay AP at a
>> home yesterday, the AP being on the roof of the garage (couldn't get
>> a link to my tower from the house). The wireless card I put in the customers
>> computer would not connect to (usually would not even see) the AP, although
>> it would find APs in other homes 1/2 mile away at times. My laptop, sitting
>> on the desk next to the computer, connected immediately, with great signal
>> strength. BUT, if I changed the channel to either 9, 10, or 11, then the
>> desktop unit would connect, also with great signal strength. I changed out
>> the radio on the garage, changed the PCI wireless card in the desktop, 
>> antennas,
>> everything, but as long as the AP was on channel 8 or lower, the desktop
>> would usually not find it, and when it did, the RSSI was very low. My laptop
>> however, did not have any problems connecting no matter what channel
>> the AP was on, with excellent RSSI reported on all channels.
>>
>> Is there an explanation for what I was seeing?
>>
>> 
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Some days I don't seem to know anything.

[J. Vogel]

Thanks for the reply. Good advice from both you and Chris.

I actually am just using the plain jane wireless adapter that walmart 
had put in this old
HP Pavilion ze4900. As a general rule it does fairly well, but not so 
well that it would
out-perform the PCI cards I use. I figure if the laptop will connect, 
the PCI card will
definitely work, usually a lot better. Unless... something happens like 
what did yesterday.

Sure wish I knew what was happening. The recommendation for wi-spy is 
appreciated.

John

Mark Williams wrote:
> I have seen this before also. Chris is right to mention that the desktop
> and your laptop are likely 
> reacting differently due to rec. sens. and / or power , IE fade margin
> differences.
>
> Not trying to shamelessly plug products here, but I find a wi-spy to be
> very helpful in this situation.
> Sometimes the noise source is simply not wifi related and the wi-spy
> will help you to identify
> the best frequency selection.
>
> Also, I HIGHLY recommend that you standardize on deployed wifi bridges /
> adapters and make sure
> you run the same equipment in your laptop. I've seen a lot of WISP techs
> who add higher end / power 
> wifi adapters in their laptops and while it may be greatly beneficial
> from a daily use standpoint, as 
> a tech it detracts from your ability to diagnose customer SINR issues.
>
> There are many non-wifi noise sources and the WiSpy is very much worth
> having.
> -Mark Williams
>
>
> On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 09:41 -0400, chris cooper wrote:
>
>   
>> John-
>>
>> It sounds like you might have noise impacting the local AP on channels
>> 1-6.  Is the power and receive sensitivity the same on your laptop vs.
>> the customer PC?  That might be the reason you are seeing the difference
>> in performance between the two.  Did you run netstumbler or otherwise
>> look at the spectrum?  Any chances of a local interferer in the house or
>> garage?
>>
>> chris
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of J. Vogel
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:28 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Some days I don't seem to know anything.
>>
>> Is it possible for interference to prevent a signal from showing up in a
>>
>> site
>> survey in Windows Zero Configuration utility? I set up a relay AP at a
>> home yesterday, the AP being on the roof of the garage (couldn't get
>> a link to my tower from the house). The wireless card I put in the
>> customers
>> computer would not connect to (usually would not even see) the AP,
>> although
>> it would find APs in other homes 1/2 mile away at times. My laptop,
>> sitting
>> on the desk next to the computer, connected immediately, with great
>> signal
>> strength. BUT, if I changed the channel to either 9, 10, or 11, then the
>> desktop unit would connect, also with great signal strength. I changed
>> out
>> the radio on the garage, changed the PCI wireless card in the desktop, 
>> antennas,
>> everything, but as long as the AP was on channel 8 or lower, the desktop
>> would usually not find it, and when it did, the RSSI was very low. My
>> laptop
>> however, did not have any problems connecting no matter what channel
>> the AP was on, with excellent RSSI reported on all channels.
>>
>> Is there an explanation for what I was seeing?
>>
>> 
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Some days I don't seem to know anything.

[J. Vogel]

Chris-

The laptop and the PCI card in the desktop are not equal... the laptop 
is an old hp pavilion ze4900
with the stock card/antenna, and the PCI card was branded LevelOne 
WNC-301. Not sure of
the specs on either, but I have used a lot of those PCI cards... 40+, 
and they have consistently
performed well, and way better than the laptop has. So yes, it is 
possible that the PCI card is
hearing something that the laptop isn't... but it doesn't seem to be 
affecting the AP. I did try
a small panel antenna on the  PCI card instead of the omni that came 
with it, and there was
no difference, but that little panel (one of the D-Link 7db ones i 
think) isn't overly directional
either.

It is just really strange to be sitting next to the desktop unit, logged 
in with my laptop, able to
use WinBox to manipulate the channels on the AP, never drop the 
connection with the laptop,
never even have to re-login to winbox, because the laptop followed the 
AP channels fast enough,
cycle through all of the channels, and watch the desktop right next to 
me fail to even detect
the AP on channels 1-8, and connect with RSSI's of 60-65 on channels 
9-11. I thought of
interference from something, but...

Is it possible that the interference could be within the Desktop unit 
itself? It was a Dell.
Could it have been a driver issue? I did change the PCI slot the card 
was in also, but
that didn't change anything either.

John

chris cooper wrote:
> John-
>
> It sounds like you might have noise impacting the local AP on channels
> 1-6.  Is the power and receive sensitivity the same on your laptop vs.
> the customer PC?  That might be the reason you are seeing the difference
> in performance between the two.  Did you run netstumbler or otherwise
> look at the spectrum?  Any chances of a local interferer in the house or
> garage?
>
> chris
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Some days I don't seem to know anything.
>
> Is it possible for interference to prevent a signal from showing up in a
>
> site
> survey in Windows Zero Configuration utility? I set up a relay AP at a
> home yesterday, the AP being on the roof of the garage (couldn't get
> a link to my tower from the house). The wireless card I put in the
> customers
> computer would not connect to (usually would not even see) the AP,
> although
> it would find APs in other homes 1/2 mile away at times. My laptop,
> sitting
> on the desk next to the computer, connected immediately, with great
> signal
> strength. BUT, if I changed the channel to either 9, 10, or 11, then the
> desktop unit would connect, also with great signal strength. I changed
> out
> the radio on the garage, changed the PCI wireless card in the desktop, 
> antennas,
> everything, but as long as the AP was on channel 8 or lower, the desktop
> would usually not find it, and when it did, the RSSI was very low. My
> laptop
> however, did not have any problems connecting no matter what channel
> the AP was on, with excellent RSSI reported on all channels.
>
> Is there an explanation for what I was seeing?
>
>   


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John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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[WISPA] Some days I don't seem to know anything.

[J. Vogel]

Is it possible for interference to prevent a signal from showing up in a 
site
survey in Windows Zero Configuration utility? I set up a relay AP at a
home yesterday, the AP being on the roof of the garage (couldn't get
a link to my tower from the house). The wireless card I put in the customers
computer would not connect to (usually would not even see) the AP, although
it would find APs in other homes 1/2 mile away at times. My laptop, sitting
on the desk next to the computer, connected immediately, with great signal
strength. BUT, if I changed the channel to either 9, 10, or 11, then the
desktop unit would connect, also with great signal strength. I changed out
the radio on the garage, changed the PCI wireless card in the desktop, 
antennas,
everything, but as long as the AP was on channel 8 or lower, the desktop
would usually not find it, and when it did, the RSSI was very low. My laptop
however, did not have any problems connecting no matter what channel
the AP was on, with excellent RSSI reported on all channels.

Is there an explanation for what I was seeing?

-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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[WISPA] IPTV - SkyAngel

[J. Vogel]

I have received several inquiries from customers and potential
customers in recent days asking if their internet connection received
through me would handle SkyAngel IPTV. SkyAngel is a family/religious
television and radio network that to this point had been utilizing one
of Dish Network's satellites for broadcasting, but they are shutting
down the satellite service in the near future, and advising their current
customers to switch to the IPTV service, which is new.

Have others on this list had customers asking about this, and what are
you answering them? How do you plan to handle the additional bandwidth
requirements. They say they stream ~900 kbps...

What do you think of the section of their FAQ regarding ISPs and bandwidth
which can be found at
http://www.skyangel.com/IPTV/Index.asp?ws=v&Reference=EquipFAQs&~=#q4
(tinyurl) *http://tinyurl.com/yunakf
*

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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Linux command question

[J. Vogel]

It is not sed, but this ought to work...

perl -pi -e 's/Templates//sgi'/path_to_directory_containing files/*

You could also (recommended) have it create a backup file for every file
edited
(Google perl command line editing) or you could also find all the files
containing
the word templates and process only those.. e.g.

perl -pi -e 's/Templates//sgi' `grep -l "Templates"
/path_to_directory_containing files/*`

Disclaimer - the above examples are just off the top of my head and have not
been double-checked for accuracy, fitness for purpose, effectiveness, or
anything
else. Use at your own risk.

John

Ryan Langseth wrote:
>
>
> Its been awhile since I used sed,  and I can not figure out to read
> and write to the same file.  Since you are doing this with a backup of
> the files, correct?  Here is a way to make it work
>
> mkdir newfiles
> for file in `ls .`; do
> sed -e 's|../../Templates/||g'  <$file  >newfiles/$file
> echo 
> done
>
> The edited files will be in "newfiles/"
>
> Note:  I used | instead of / for the delimiter,  sed can use different
> delimiters as long as you are consistent in the script.
>
> http://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>> I'm not looking to remove the files, but to remove the text string
>> "../../Templates/" from those files.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:45 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Linux command question
>>
>>
>> Would the following command remove ../../Templates/ from all files in
>> the /home/devicsil/public_html/Templates directory?
>>
>>
>>
>> for file in ls /home/devicsil/public_html/Templates ; do
>>
>> sed -e 's/..\/..\/Templates\///g' "$file"
>>
>> echo 
>>
>> done
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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>> 
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>>
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>>
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Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Non-paying Subs

[J. Vogel]

Incidentally, my experience is like others have mentioned... you should make
plans to be available when you turn them off, because they will be
making contact.

I have on more than one occasion had people show up at my door, cash in
hand,
within 20 minutes of me having redirected them, and I live in the middle
of nowhere.
:)





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Re: [WISPA] Non-paying Subs

[J. Vogel]

Using Iptables, it is fairly straightforward, and can be
accomplished in Mikrotik as well.

I set up rules in a separate chain to allow access to certain things,
such as my payment server, DNS, and a couple of other things i
wanted to let even the restricted people access but then direct all
port 80 and 443 traffic (DstNAT) to my web server ip on port 88.

The web server is set up to serve one page only at that virtualhost, but
I think more importantly, it is also set up with ReDirect rules to catch
all URI's and redirect them to the one page, and it is ALSO set up to
instruct the browser to not cache those pages.

e.g.  http://yahoo.com/somthing/another/index.html is redirected
(transparently.. their address bar still shows that they are at yahoo.com,
but the page they see is my "you are restricted" page) as is
http://yahoo.com/ or google.com, none of which gives a 404 error
on my web server because of the ReWrite rules. However, my page
is not stored in their browser cache, so that when I turn them back on,
all they have to do is hit refresh and they immediately get the real
page they were attempting to get in the first place, not my (cached)
page.

I also have a link to my payment gateway on the restricted page,
and rules in ipchains to allow them to access it.

Since I do NOT know who might be using whomever's computer, I do not
specifically say on that page WHY they are restricted, as that might
be a violation of the customer's privacy. It might be their visiting
mother-in-law that was the first to see the "you haven't paid your
bill" message. Instead, I have a list of several possible reasons why
they are being restricted, including misconfiguration of their computer,
spamming, worms, viruses, non-payment, I made a mistake, etc

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> Hey Sam, want to elaborate? How do you do this?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> ryan 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: 11/23/07 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Non-paying Subs
>
> And if you have a way to send them to a captive page that says the 
> account has been restricted due to billing issues we have found that the 
> respond even quicker.
>
> Sam Tetherow
> Sandhills Wireless
>
> Mark Nash wrote:
>   
>> Hey everyone.
>>
>> I've recently cleaned up alot of billing/past due issues.  My main 
>> comment here is that it's amazing how responsive people are when you 
>> turn their connection off due to nonpayment.  They are generally not 
>> upset because they know they haven't been paying.
>>
>> Don't be afraid to get in the habit of checking your billing and 
>> turning people off for nonpayment.  It's expected.
>>
>> Mark Nash
>> UnwiredOnline
>> 350 Holly Street
>> Junction City, OR 97448
>> http://www.uwol.net
>> 541-998-
>> 541-998-5599 fax
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>  
>>
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>>
>>
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>>
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>> 
>
>
>
> 
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>   

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John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



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[WISPA] Topeka KS

[J. Vogel]

Anybody serving Topeka KS area? I have a possible client for you.

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John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



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Re: [WISPA] Merchant Services

[J. Vogel]

Mike Hammett wrote:
> I'm speaking to my bank as well as looking at QuickBooks and PayPal for 
> merchant services (CC processing).  Opinions?
>
>
>
>   
I have been using e-onlinedata/authorize.net for a couple of years
and have been very happy with them. They have a lower rate for
ISPs and webhosts than for some other types of accounts, so you
want to look at that specific page... cheaper than QB, with more
options.

http://e-onlinedata.com/merchantaccounts/hostisp.php

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John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas


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[WISPA] Trade Organizations and Consumer Mentality

[J. Vogel]

I have seen several posts in the last couple of days made by
non-members of WISPA stating how they could not become
a part of the organization until such time as the organization
changes in some way to meet their requirements. How is it that
non-members, people who are unwilling to part with a year's dues,
 feel that they have any standing to complain about
what the organization is doing (or not) when they themselves refuse to
become a part of the organization and thus gain standing to influence
what the organization is doing?

Come on, people. It isn't going to break you to become a member.
The cost is minimal. Until such time as you are willing to commit
even that amount, you have absolutely no standing to complain.

Is it your perception that the organization is being run by a select
few, a good-ole-boys club? Want to change that? Become a member
and run for election to the board. Don't want to become a member,
or run for the board? Quit complaining about not having a voice.

Don't agree with formal positions taken (or not) by the membership?
Become a member and vote on the postions taken. Don't want to
become a member and vote? Quit complaining about the positions
taken (or not) by the organization.

WISPA is not a store. They are not in business to come up with
products to sell to you. WISPA is an group of industry members who
have banded together to increase their impact especially on regulatory
issues, and other ways in which the organization feels will be beneficial
to its members and the industry in general. If you don't think they are
doing it right, pay your dues, get involved, and work for change in
the organization. If you are waiting for the organization to become
what you want it to be before you are willing to commit the paltry sum
required for a year's membership and some time to it, you have missed
the point of what a trade organization is to begin with IMHO.

If you have not yet joined the organization, on what basis do you think
the organization owes you anything?

(insert your own analogy here. You know the principle, those who complain
the loudest are often those who refuse to take part in producing the outcome
which falls short of their expectations...)

The views expressed in this rant do not reflect the official position of
WISPA,
its board of directors, or any individual in particular.

-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



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Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation

[J. Vogel]

It doesn't really help, when attempting to clarify a misunderstood or
confusing
statement, to say the same thing over again.

You asserted, in your posting, that the position of WISPA as stated in the
code of ethics, did not meet the requirement in your opinion of being the
official stance of WISPA. You are the one who should clarify just exactly
how the official written statement contained in the code of ethics falls
short
of meeting the bar. If the code of ethics statement cannot be taken to be
the official postion of WISPA,...

1. why not?,
2. what would you propose that would be adequate in your view?

John

Zack Kneisley wrote:
>> Please expand upon this statement...
>>
>> "
>>
>> Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through a
>> ethics statement, does not conclude that WISPA as a professional
>> organization supports the use of only certified systems.
>>
>> "
>>
>> I do not see how this statement makes any sense. The logic loses me
>> about the
>> "does not conclude" part.
>>
>> John
>> 
>
>
>
> Ok, I'll be happy to. I'm sorry if the logic in my statement is confusing.
>
> -
> 1.Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through
> ethics statement,
>
> ***You have stated that WISPA, through its code of ethics, somehow assumes
> the stance that it does not condone the use of non-ceritified systems..
> correct?
>
> 2.does not conclude that WISPA as a professional organization supports the
> use of only certified systems.
>
> ***This does not mean that WISPA take the same position.
>
> -
> I appoligize if I confused you. Is this the official opinion of WISPA? are
> you making this statement on behalf of WISPA? I don't think you are. Is it
> WISPA's official public position that non-certified systems are not condoned
> because you have a code of ethics? Are you representing WISPA with your
> statement?
>
> John, this is not your statement to make.. Honestly, your opinion doesn't
> matter to me. What matters to me is WISPA's public opinion, not yours.
>
> Zack
> 
>
> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
> ISPCON **
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> ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
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>   

-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas


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Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation

[J. Vogel]

Please expand upon this statement...

"

I simply asked WISPA to publish a position on illegal operation. That
doesn't mean to push it off on some code of ethics.

"

What kind of written statement would carry more weight than the code of
ethics?
Please describe how any such written statement would in fact carry more
weight.

John

Ralph wrote:
> Responses inline...
>
>   
>> Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business?
>> 
>Because you are our industry organization
>
>   
>> What business is it of others what anyone else does?
>> 
>Anyone who wants to see the industry operate in a proper and legal
> manner.
>
>   
>> If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would
>> 
> have said so.
>Good idea- let's ask them. I will draft my request this week.
>
>   
>> WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now
>> 
> certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had
> none in the past.
> Bravo to them! Who are they?
>
>   
>> Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me
>> 
> his antennas were being certified  with new manufacturers that
> proviously were uncertified.
>  Ditto
>
>   
>> WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you
>> 
> are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the
> lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can
> end up with is some type of rivalry at best.
>
>  ??? Confused. Who do we want to see succeed? All WISPS, you say.
> Including the ones who operate illegaly?  The legal ones?
>  The ones we don't see because we look the other way?
>
>   
>> I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those
>> 
> opinions  expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to
> some of our wisps is unacceptable.
>
>Uhm.. Who's it destructive to?
>Oh- that's right... The ones who operate illegally.
>
> I simply asked WISPA to publish a position on illegal operation. That
> doesn't mean to push it off on some code of ethics.
> This is our organization that is supposed to further our business. I'd hate
> to think we were afraid to stand up for what is right.
>
> There's no "sort-of pregnant", and there's no sort-of Part 15 compliant. You
> are or you aren't That is why this isn't debatable AT ALL!
>
> Who here is operating illegally? There's one message already posted from an
> operator who was bragging that he was.
> Who is operating legally?  Who will add their company to this list? 
>
> Legal  Illegal
> ---
>  x Brightlan
>  ?  ?  The rest of you 
>
>
>
> Ralph Fowler
> Brightlan LLC
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of George Rogato
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 3:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
>
>
> Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business?
>
> What business is it of others what anyone else does?
>
> If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would
> have said so.
>
> WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now
> certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had
> none in the past.
>
> Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me
> his antennas were being certified  with new manufacturers that
> proviously were uncertified.
>
> WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you
> are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the
> lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can
> end up with is some type of rivalry at best.
>
>
> I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those
> opinions  expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to
> some of our wisps is unacceptable.
>
> Lets look for the common good of all wisps.
>
> George
>
> 
> 
>
> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
> ISPCON **
> ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
> ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
> ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
> ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
> http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
>
> ---

Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation

[J. Vogel]

Please expand upon this statement...

"

Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through a
ethics statement, does not conclude that WISPA as a professional
organization supports the use of only certified systems.

"

I do not see how this statement makes any sense. The logic loses me
about the
"does not conclude" part.

John

Zack Kneisley wrote:
> John
>
> I don't see where Ralph said that WISPA supports breaking the law, I'm not
> sure where that could have been derived from.
>
> I feel that Ralphs statement was one of frustration of WISPA not publicly
> supporting a specific stance on the issue of non-certified systems. To think
> that open dialog somehow diminishes WISPA's reputation is just absurd.
> Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through a
> ethics statement, does not conclude that WISPA as a professional
> organization supports the use of only certified systems.
>
> I don't believe that you are in a position to publicly announce such claims
> of what WISPA does or does not support. To the contrary, I think your
> personal opinion does diminish the reputation and credibility of WISPA in
> accordance to its own Code of Ethics. I hope that your statement is not one
> that represents what WISPA as a professional organization believes.
>
>
>
> Zack
>
>
>
> On 9/2/07, John Scrivner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> I see in the WISPA Code of Ethics this line:
>>
>> e) Use proper diligence to ensure that all materials on their networks
>> are restricted in accordance with applicable laws, regulations and the
>> tenets of reasonable precaution.
>>
>> If this needs to be worded differently then maybe this would suffice? I
>> do not know how many times we can state specifically that WISPA does not
>> support breaking laws and that while we do wish to see some changes to
>> some laws we support following the laws. I am getting a bit tired of
>> being told by many here that we support breaking the laws when we DO
>> NOT. Part of the WISPA Code of Ethics states:
>>
>> ARTICLE II
>> We will conduct ourselves in such a manner as to bring credit to our
>> industry and enhance its reputation.
>>
>> With so many people coming on here saying over and over that WISPA is
>> trying to support breaking the laws we are not following this code. We
>> are doing damage to our industry when we state these things and it is
>> not helping the effort. If our Code of Ethics needs some work then say
>> so but stop calling us criminals on a public list server. I am tiring of
>> it and I am sure I am not alone.
>> John Scrivner
>>
>>
>> Zack Kneisley wrote:
>> 
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> As only a list member, wireless operator and entrepreneur, I support and
>>> encorage your request. WISPA, should publicly support issues, especially
>>> those that are law. This specific position should not be something that
>>> requires debate.
>>>
>>> I hope this request will open a dialog of democratic, representative,
>>> self-governing action of WISPA in general. WISPA taking a public
>>>   
>> position
>> 
>>> would make paid membership more attractive to myself, and many others I
>>> associate with.
>>>
>>> Zack Kneisley
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/1/07, Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 I appreciate what several WISPA folks are doing to try to get more
 latitude
 in equipment/antenna matching, and as a full "Principal" WISPA member,
 
>> I
>> 
 would like to ask the WISPA board to publish a position paper on legal
 operation and guidelines for WISPs to use in order to meet the current
 rules. It needs to be done now.

 Actually showing we are paying more than lip service to the current
 regulations  and officially Supporting legal operation may go a long
 
>> way
>> 
 towards building better credibility with the FCC AS well as with the
 
>> rest
>> 
 of
 the wireless industry.

 Is WISPA up to the challege of setting the precedent.

 Ralph
 Brightlan.net
 North Georgia Broadband Without The Wires"



 
>> 
>> 
 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007
 
>> at
>> 
 ISPCON **
 ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
 ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
 ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
 ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
 http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



 
>> 
>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
>> 
>> 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subs

Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz antennas

[J. Vogel]

I have a couple of the TR-24H-120-16 
antennas in service for a few
months, so far I am very happy with them. They look to be well built
and are performing to expectation. I haven't had them long enough to
give a full recommendation, but so far real good.


Travis Johnson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Anyone have any experience with Tranzeo's TR-24H-120-16
>  or TR-24H-120-13 sector antennas?
> 
>
> thanks,
>
> Travis
> Microserv*
> *
> 
>
> 
>
> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
> ISPCON **
> ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
> ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
> ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available til August 31 **
> ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
> http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
>
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available til August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


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[WISPA] Bandwidth pricing...

[J. Vogel]

I just received a quote from AT&T for various levels of bandwidth
through bonded T1s, where they are quoting not in multiples of 1.5,
but in 1mbps increments. Seemed strange to me. However, what I
found to be even more confusing was that as the total bandwidth
increased, the price/mbps also increased, so that a 10 meg circuit
costs $50/mbps more than a 7 meg circuit. Is this common? Is there
a rational explanation for it?

Thanks for any help understanding this.

-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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[WISPA] USF billing question

[J. Vogel]

I know this has been discussed before, possibly not on this list though,
and I haven't been able to find the previous discussion. I have noticed
a charge for USF on my bill from my upstream provider (SBC/AT&T).

I have bonded T1s from them, no phone service. Is a USF charge
appropriate and something I should be paying? If my other upstream
is charging me for USF it isn't itemized on the bill, but I am wondering
how solid the ground I am on is if I attempt to get the charge removed
from the bill it is on.

-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Update on T1 Mobile Wireless Service

[J. Vogel]

After having read through the "news releases", the impression I got was that
the hope for making money was based solely on stock options and preferred
purchasing (of stock) opportunities. There was no discussion that I noticed
about making money on delivering Internet Access to the masses, for either
the resellers or the company. Based on past history, such as the dot.com
bust of a few years ago, I think that business model has been proven to be
disastrous for most who attempt to make money at it, with only a select few
insiders taking the cash. If you can be one of those insiders, you might do
OK. If you happen to be a WISP competing against them, you really have
nothing to fear from them, except for maybe a short-term blip until the
consumers have learned that the business isn't about them, and the model
itself fails in terms of actually providing a service at a sustainable rate.

John Vogel

John Scrivner wrote:
>
> Can you say FUD? I knew you could. This is my favorite line...
> "It is pretty easy to imagine that an *always on*, fully mobile, *T1
> level* wireless Internet service for only $19.95 per month would be
> hard to compete with for most ISPs and might have a disastrous effect
> on their business."
> But not to fear...they will work with you! Yeah right! Stay as far
> away from FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) as you can and you will
> live a much happier life.
> Scriv
>
>
>
> Jory Privett wrote:
>> HiHas anyone heard of these guys?   They keep calling me wanting me
>> to sign up to resell their service saying that if I don't there new
>> technoligy will put me out of business.  So far they claim 1.5M NLOS
>> at 30 miles.  They say it will cut through trees up to 16 to 20 miles
>> in mountain terain.   And they are selling T1s for $19.95 and T3s for
>> $70-$80 with no setup, installation, or equipment costs..  And I get
>> a whole $3 for for each customer I sign up.  They also claim to be
>> able to sell T2 and T3 service also.   They claim to have 3 licenesed
>> frequencies but will not disclose them. 
>> Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.  Lots of marketing fluff and no facts.
>>
>> Jory Privett
>> WCCS
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: Jack Sample / Namia Corporation
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:29 PM
>> Subject: Update on T1 Mobile Wireless Service
>>
>>
>>
>>   Hi
>> Jory,
>>  
>> Tuesday, July 31, 2007
>>
>>   Hopefully you haven't forgotten me since a lot of water has
>> passed under the bridge since I last communicated with you regarding
>> the T-1 to T-3 level mobile wireless Internet service that is soon to
>> be launched on the world.
>>   Well, you may have thought that we went away but it was only a
>> temporary delay.  First of all I want to apologize to you for the
>> early notification that turned out to be a false summit.  We had felt
>> that launch was eminent when we sent out the cards late last year.
>> The setback was only temporary though and we are finally emerging
>> from the quiet time and able to share what is going on with everyone.
>>
>>   I have included the last 7 months of short notes from
>> ItsYourNet CEO Ken Stewart to catch you up on where are are and what
>> can be expected in the next few months.  I don't have any information
>> other than what comes out in these news briefs so just stay tuned for
>> further developments.
>>
>>   January 4:  From ItsYourNet CEO Ken Stewart...
>>
>>   The questions are still coming in about the Wireless Internet
>> project and Stock in the Corporation since I released the last
>> newsletter announcing the orders we are under with the "Quiet Time"
>> on Thursday, December 22, 2006.
>>
>>   So...
>>   Let me say this again...
>>   "We are under strict orders to not say anything further about
>> the Wireless project until authorized to do so."
>>
>>   And as a result, these questions need to stop coming in to our
>> support channels - Thank you!
>>
>>   Furthermore, with a $13-Billion investor, no Seed or Preferred
>> Stock needs to be offered and no other investment capital needs to be
>> sought, so sale of Stock is not required to raise the money needed to
>> launch the project.
>>
>>   What you do and will receive as an Affiliate with ItsYourNet is
>> notification of the Stock being made available to the public before
>> you can learn about it going live anywhere else.
>>
>>   We will let you know when the Stock is live for public purchase
>> even before your Broker calls you to recommend buying it, but that is
>> all we can do; ItsYourNet does not own the Wireless Company, and even
>> I personally have no way to obtain Stock before it is available
>> publicly.
>>
>>
>>   April 26:  from ItsYourNet CEO, Ken Stewart...
>>
>>   The Wireless Corporation CEO, Mr. Gary Brown, met with us here
>> at ItsYourNet's office last Tuesday and shared some wonderful 

Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts

[J. Vogel]

Clint,

Thank you for the civil reply.

You are still making assumptions which are in fact un-founded.
Nowhere in my post did I state the weights and dimensions of what
I have secured to towers using magnets, the number and size of magnets,
their placement on the towers, proximity to areas where there might
be climbers attempting find anchor points, whether they were on vertical
or horizontal planes of the tower, the leverage which might have been
either in favor of or against the magnets due to stresses which might
be placed on the mount by winds or objects striking the antennas/masts,
the methods used to tie the magnets together, wind load factor of
attached equipment, or really any other technical details which would
have given you or anybody else a possible basis for determining whether
or not the methods used were likely to be sufficient under all forseeable
circumstances, or even possible catastophic conditions. Yet you still
referred to "amateurs", your liklihood of dis-allowing any such mounts
were you in the decision making role or in authority position, and other
references that indicated that you believe that anybody that would
use magnetic mounts in any circumstance (at 200 feet in the air) is
doing it wrong. I believe you also referred to lack of understanding
of magnet load carrying capacity and other references to the lack of
ability of people (presumably including me) who might choose to use
magnets to mount an antenna.

I did say that I did not completely trust the mount, and immediately
following that statement, stated that I had secured the mount/mast to
the tower using a safety cable. I did not express surprise that the magnets
had not moved, just stated that I could not detect any movement. I
actually attached the safety cable because I am probably more cautious
than most. I also don't completely trust most other mounting systems,
and whenever possible and/or practical, take steps to add a redundant
safety feature such as a safety cable, supporting braces, multiple mount
points, etc... and I do this on towers that are in rural locations with no
structures/and only authorized personnell being within 1/2 mile of the
towers. (and only on rare occasions at that.)There is almost zero
possibility
of anybody or any thing being damaged or hurt should the mounts
 fail and the safety cable failing simultaneously. And by "almost zero"
I mean approaching infinitesimally small odds that someone will get hurt.
But then again, I am not a statistician either. :)

My negative reaction to your post and those made by others was prompted
by the unequivocal statements that magnet mounts are always a bad idea. I
would propose that a properly designed and built mounting system secured
by the proper quantity/size/power magnets strategically placed can be safer
than many of the mounting systems I see in use that would not have elicited
such a response had the suggestion been to use them, including some mounts
I have seen that were bolted to the tower using capacitive stud welding. In
fact, I believe that magnets could be used successfully to secure a mounting
system that I WOULD trust my life to, and I take life very seriously. :)

The original poster asked for alternative ideas for mounting some sector
antennas to a tower. He did not as I recall specify the size or weight
of those
antennas. They likely are not very big or heavy if he is in the WISP
industry.
Most likely they weigh only a couple of pounds, with minimal wind loading
characteristics. If that is the case, it might be entirely possible to
design a
mounting system that would hold them, with the mounting system exceeding
the specifications of the antenna brackets themselves in terms of holding
capacity and projected reliability. I did not propose to him the design
of such
a system, nor would I. Only a suggestion that such things can and are being
done successfully, giving him another option to research. It is OK for you
and others to disagree, but please, do so in a reasoned and civil manner,
taking all care necessary to avoid giving the impression that you believe
those with whom you are disagreeing are idiots, fools, or worse... unless
of course they actually are. :)

John

Clint Ricker wrote:
>
> John Vogel,
> Disagreeing with you does not make this a less-than-professional
> discussion.  There was nothing in my post that was unprofessional or
> uncivil; I simply disagree with the use of magnet-mounting equipment onto
> towers.   If discussion on such stuff is unprofessional, then these lists
> have no purpose.
>
> You stated in your earlier post regarding magnets "I don't completely
> trust
> them".  I don't either, so we are in agreement on the matter :).  Call it
> unprofessional of me, but I tend to think that one should avoid using
> mounting methods that one doesn't trust when one is dealing with big,
> heavy
> chunks of metal and what-all hundreds of feet in the air.
>
> As a general side note, any statement about mounting that involved so

Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts

[J. Vogel]

Not to argue with you JohnnyO,  :) but the last time I hired
professionals (just recently
in fact) to do something I could well have done myself, it was because I
was lazy
and cheap. I didn't have the time, nor the inclination to do something
myself, so I
hired a "professional" crew to do it for me. And I do mean professional.
A highly
experienced, regionally known, and well respected in the industry, firm.
I was there
to watch the work being done, and I can tell you that had safety,
efficiency, and
getting the job done according to all relevant "best current practices"
been the
criteria, the amateur crew I would have hired had I wanted to spend the time
money and energy to do it myself would have been a far better choice.

I may be lazy and cheap, but that is really irrelevant to the thread at
hand.

John

JohnnyO wrote:
>
> I think magnetic mounts are used by lazy / cheap people who do not
> want to spend the $$ nor the time to do it right. Get a professional
> welder... Be done with it, sleep at night. A magnetic mount would
> never fly with our approval board on our water tower systems.
>
> JohnnyO
>
> ps - I have a few friends on this list that use magnetic mounts.
> they are lazy / cheap :) LOL
> - Original Message - From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
>
>
>> I don't intend to ruffle any feathers, nor do I direct this at any one
>> individual
>> but, the number of assumptions made and the knee-jerk reactions and
>> false statements being made in response to a suggestion that
>> magnetic mounts can be successfully used in some circumstances is both
>> amazing
>> and somewhat disappointing. I would have hoped that we could have a
>> more "professional" atmosphere on this list.
>>
>> "Best practices" if it in this case is taken to mean to use a
>> commercially available
>> professionally engineered mount which has been engineered to "withstand
>> 100 mph wind loads" (to use an arbitrary example) instead of using a
>> mounting
>> system which will withstand much more than that, albeit not a
>> "professionally
>> engineered" solution is just wrong. I would rather go with the stronger,
>> more stable solution rather than compromise on the integrity of the
>> mounting
>> to attain the engineer's label. Whether that is "best" or not I suppose
>> would
>> depend upon whether your goal was safety or following the "norm".
>>
>> It has been suggested in another post that nothing should ever be
>> mounted
>> on a tower that some idiot might at some point decided to use as a
>> tie-off
>> anchor point. That is a good idea in practice, but how many of us have
>> attached
>> a lightweight yagi antenna to a tower leg, assuming that nobody would
>> ever
>> be foolish enough to use it to tie off to, or even use as a foothold or
>> handhold?
>> Are we supposed to only use yagi antennas engineered to withstand
>> improper
>> use in case some idiot decides to tie off to one? What about omni
>> antennas consisting
>> of a thin metal rod, possibly encased in a small fiberglass tube? The
>> point is
>> that while safety should be a top priority, the goal of never mounting
>> something
>> on a tower that could at some point be mis-used as an anchor or support
>> point
>> is an unrealistic goal, which I would go so far as to say that those who
>> propose
>> such a goal have not been able to meet themselves, assuming that they
>> have
>> actually mounted equipment on towers.
>>
>> As far as mounting heavy stuff which might fall off and hurt someone, I
>> would
>> assume that the reaction(s) in this thread would indicate that
>> non-penetrating
>> roof mounts, chimmney mount brackets, clamping to roof vents not
>> specifically
>> engineered to withstand such use, and all other forms of mounting which
>> might
>> under some conditions fail and allow the "heavy" objects to fall
>> would be
>> outlawed in your town were you given the regulatory authority to do
>> so. Or,
>> perhaps because they were "designed by professionals" they would pass
>> muster in your book in spite of the fact that any fool looking at
>> them could
>> imagine a likely scenario in which they would fail.
>>
>> I have seen numerous "professionally engineered" solutions which I
>> would not
>> use in a given circumstance becaus

Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts

[J. Vogel]

ce over having a "designed by professionals" label) and one
should never mount equipment in a fashion which is likely to cause
serious injury
or death to innocent members of the community.

John

Clint Ricker wrote:
>
> Not to ruffle any feathers and not directed at anyone, but lack of
> problems
> on a single install does not always coincide with proper approaches on
> this
> sort of thing.  Best practices are just that--the best approach(es) to
> doing
> technical work--there are also bad practices, not so good practices,
> it may
> work practices, it should hold practices, and we'll deal with that later
> practices.  They often will get the job done, but, just so that we're all
> clear on this, none of the later category, no matter how many one-off
> implementations are functional to some degree or another, will ever be
> "best
> practices".
>
> Personally, if I was in your town or especially on any sort of a planning
> board or whatever, I'd be fairly nervous about the idea of big heavy
> objects
> being held up by magnets, especially when (seemingly) it is being done by
> people who don't necessarily have a lot of experience with calculating
> load
> bearing stuff with magnets.  The fact that you hold up anecdotal
> evidence as
> a basis for its validity rather than "it's engineered to withstand 100Mph
> winds or whatever pretty much illustrates my point--this is just a bad
> idea.  Just keep in mind that one falling antenna that kills one
> person is
> enough to bring out major liability lawsuits that you will not be covered
> against, not to mention bringing some fairly major legislative regulation
> and licensing requirements for mounting affecting the whole industry. 
> If I
> knew that antennas in my area were be magnet-mounted by amateurs, I
> would be
> personally leading the charge for some regulation on this.
>
> Ok, sorry for any offense.  I'm not trying to flame anyone, but this
> is just
> not a good idea.
>
> -Clint Ricker
> Kentnis Technologies
>
>
>
> On 7/12/07, Ray & Jean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Carl
>> We used one from Tessco that has a collar that bolts around the vent on
>> top
>> of tank and adjustable legs for leveling.It has been up there 4 years
>> with
>> no problems.It was easy to install approx 1hour.
>> Ray Hill
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
>>
>>
>> > Carl Shivers wrote:
>> >> We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers.
>> One
>> >> tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting.
>> The
>> >> other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the
>> >> top,
>> >> no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water
>> >> Tower
>> >> mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld
>> the
>> >> plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution.
>> > I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years
>> now...
>> >
>> > I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the
>> > mast
>> > and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the
>> magnets
>> > did
>> > turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and
>> > through
>> > several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't
>> shifted
>> > a bit that I can see.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
>> > Vogel Enterprises, LLC
>> > Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
>> >
>> >
>> 
>>
>> > Would you like to see your advertisement here?  Let the WISPA Board
>> know
>> > your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA
>> lists.  The
>> > current Board is taking this under consideration at this time.  We
>> want
>> to
>> > know your thoughts.
>> >
>> 
>>
>> > --
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts

[J. Vogel]

Carl Shivers wrote:
> We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One
> tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The
> other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top,
> no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower
> mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the
> plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution.
I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now...

I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast
and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did
turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through
several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted
a bit that I can see.

-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas


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Re: [WISPA] Hotspot setup

[J. Vogel]

I do appreciate that Dennis and Chuck have both taken the time and effort
to respond, but unfortunately - I still don't have an answer to the original
question. Is there a way to set the MT HotSpot feature to handle logons
for a customer who desires to be able to disable internet access from their
location when that customer's router already has a static public IP address.

For a variety of reasons, I would like to be able to accomplish this rather
than tell the customer such a thing is not possible, or that they need
to buy
new computers, or that they should not let their kids use the computers to
play games on because they cannot guarantee that the kids will not access
the internet when they were not supposed to, or.

Refer to my original post for more information, or contact me directly
if you
think such a thing can be done or even if you think it cannot be done.

Thanks!

John Vogel

Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless wrote:
> Lol ;) bingo!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 10:53 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Hotspot setup
>
> I don't know. But since 98 is no longer supported sell them an xp pro
> upgrade. Then it will work. And you'll make some money. 
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Providing High Speed Broadband 
> to Rural Central California
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:24 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot setup
>
>
> Does that work on Win98?
>
> John Vogel
>
>
> CHUCK PROFITO wrote:
>   
>> Why knock your self out, use the two finger lock, "windows key and L"
>>
>> Chuck Profito
>> 209-988-7388
>> CV-ACCESS, INC
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> Providing High Speed Broadband 
>> to Rural Central California
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of J. Vogel
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 1:41 PM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot setup
>>
>>
>> Is it possible to use MT Hotspot feature with clients that already have
>> a public static IP address? I have a client that wants to be able to turn
>> off their Internet Access when not being used.. they have a couple of
>> computers in their office that unauthorized people may have access to
>> when they step out of the office for a minute or two, and want to prevent
>> those unauthorized people from using the computer(s) to access the
>> 
> internet.
>   
>> The set up is like this...
>>
>> client computers connected to a D-Link router, NAT/DHCP addressing.
>> The D-Link has a static public IP on the WAN side.
>> The D-Link accesses the Internet through a Tranzeo CPE configured in
>> bridge mode, which is associated to the MT Access point.
>> It is at this point that I would like to configure the hotspot, but only
>> 
> for
>   
>> this one client.
>>
>> Further info...
>> The MT AP is also acting as a transparent bridge, receiving traffic on
>> the AP side, and sending it to the network Gateway out ether1 (which
>> goes through two more transparent bridges before it gets to the GW).
>> The MT that is acting as AP for this client is on OS 2.9.35
>>
>> The MT AP currently has a private IP address. I could put a public IP
>> on it and switch it to a routed segment at some point, but would rather
>> not have to do that before setting this hotspot up for this client if
>> that is
>> at all possible.
>>
>> My thoughts are that it would be great to intercept traffic coming from
>> 
> the
>   
>> customer's public IP and direct it to the hotspot's walled garden until
>> 
> they
>   
>> provide a username and password, the enable access until they either log
>> out or are inactive for a given number of minutes, or possible after a
>> maximum length of time. I know that I can use the MT to direct traffic
>> to a walled garden manually (I have used it like that to manually disable
>> 
> a
>   
>> customer's access) but would like to use it with the client login/logout
>> feature.
>>
>> If someone has some pointers, or is willing to help me set this up, I
>> 
> would
>   
>> greatly appreciate any help.
>>
>> John Vogel
>>
>>   
>> 
>
>   
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Re: [WISPA] Hotspot setup

[J. Vogel]

Does that work on Win98?

John Vogel


CHUCK PROFITO wrote:
> Why knock your self out, use the two finger lock, "windows key and L"
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Providing High Speed Broadband 
> to Rural Central California
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 1:41 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot setup
>
>
> Is it possible to use MT Hotspot feature with clients that already have
> a public static IP address? I have a client that wants to be able to turn
> off their Internet Access when not being used.. they have a couple of
> computers in their office that unauthorized people may have access to
> when they step out of the office for a minute or two, and want to prevent
> those unauthorized people from using the computer(s) to access the internet.
>
> The set up is like this...
>
> client computers connected to a D-Link router, NAT/DHCP addressing.
> The D-Link has a static public IP on the WAN side.
> The D-Link accesses the Internet through a Tranzeo CPE configured in
> bridge mode, which is associated to the MT Access point.
> It is at this point that I would like to configure the hotspot, but only for
> this one client.
>
> Further info...
> The MT AP is also acting as a transparent bridge, receiving traffic on
> the AP side, and sending it to the network Gateway out ether1 (which
> goes through two more transparent bridges before it gets to the GW).
> The MT that is acting as AP for this client is on OS 2.9.35
>
> The MT AP currently has a private IP address. I could put a public IP
> on it and switch it to a routed segment at some point, but would rather
> not have to do that before setting this hotspot up for this client if
> that is
> at all possible.
>
> My thoughts are that it would be great to intercept traffic coming from the
> customer's public IP and direct it to the hotspot's walled garden until they
> provide a username and password, the enable access until they either log
> out or are inactive for a given number of minutes, or possible after a
> maximum length of time. I know that I can use the MT to direct traffic
> to a walled garden manually (I have used it like that to manually disable a
> customer's access) but would like to use it with the client login/logout
> feature.
>
> If someone has some pointers, or is willing to help me set this up, I would
> greatly appreciate any help.
>
> John Vogel
>
>   

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[WISPA] Hotspot setup

[J. Vogel]

Is it possible to use MT Hotspot feature with clients that already have
a public static IP address? I have a client that wants to be able to turn
off their Internet Access when not being used.. they have a couple of
computers in their office that unauthorized people may have access to
when they step out of the office for a minute or two, and want to prevent
those unauthorized people from using the computer(s) to access the internet.

The set up is like this...

client computers connected to a D-Link router, NAT/DHCP addressing.
The D-Link has a static public IP on the WAN side.
The D-Link accesses the Internet through a Tranzeo CPE configured in
bridge mode, which is associated to the MT Access point.
It is at this point that I would like to configure the hotspot, but only for
this one client.

Further info...
The MT AP is also acting as a transparent bridge, receiving traffic on
the AP side, and sending it to the network Gateway out ether1 (which
goes through two more transparent bridges before it gets to the GW).
The MT that is acting as AP for this client is on OS 2.9.35

The MT AP currently has a private IP address. I could put a public IP
on it and switch it to a routed segment at some point, but would rather
not have to do that before setting this hotspot up for this client if
that is
at all possible.

My thoughts are that it would be great to intercept traffic coming from the
customer's public IP and direct it to the hotspot's walled garden until they
provide a username and password, the enable access until they either log
out or are inactive for a given number of minutes, or possible after a
maximum length of time. I know that I can use the MT to direct traffic
to a walled garden manually (I have used it like that to manually disable a
customer's access) but would like to use it with the client login/logout
feature.

If someone has some pointers, or is willing to help me set this up, I would
greatly appreciate any help.

John Vogel

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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

[J. Vogel]

... I wish now that I had paid more attention in History classes

Which of the founding fathers said something to the effect that the
proper response of the citizenry
to an unjust law was to ignore/disobey it?

John Vogel

Butch Evans wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
>
>> Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly
>> oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.
>
> Yes it does (sometimes).  Open opposition to a law and advocating
> criminal action are not the same thing.
>
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Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods

[J. Vogel]

> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:49:43 -0400, Adam Greene wrote
>   
> 
> A: No. The petition proposes CALEA coverage of only broadband Internet access 
> service and broadband telephony service. Other Internet-based services, 
> including those classified as "information services" such as email and visits 
> to websites, would not be covered.
>   

> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 wispa wrote in reply: 
> 
> Read this carefully, it says that website visits, IM, etc, are NOT included 
> in the information you must capture.  Yeah, yeah, it says the companies that 
> provide those services need not be compliant - if that's the case, then that 
> data is not included in the required types.  Only specific types of 
> information, mostly being VIOP calls are detailed.  Since VOIP calls are 
> tapped at the provider's end, it appears that really IS NO INCLUDED DATA that 
> needs to be tapped at the ISP's end, unless somehow we're supposed to find 
> peer to peer voice data buried in the packet flow or something.   
>
> Of course, this conflicts to some degree with other information published 
> elsewhere... and here, too. 
>
> I'm not sure it doesn't conflict with the FCC's and FBI's recent comments, 
> too. 
> 
> 
> Mark Koskenmaki  <> Neofast, Inc
> Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
> 541-969-8200
>   

I think the assertion that website visits, IM, etc, are not included
actually is a statement that those subject
to the provisions of CALEA are not defined by whether or not they offer
visits to websites or IM capability,
but rather whether or not they offer broadband internet access. Such
as an Internet access provider who
does not qualify as a broadband provider (dial-up?)  is not subject to
the provisions of CALEA, even though they may
enable the public to utilize email over their networks, whereas a
provider of broadband internet access is
subject to those provisions, simply because they offer broadband, but
not because their users have email
capability.

It is then up to the LEA's and courts to determine what they want to
"sniff", which may or may not
include the email, IM, web site visits, etc...

Of course, IANAL.

John Vogel

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Re: [WISPA] outside connection

[J. Vogel]

*grin*   The "some success" part was because they could yet fail, and I
haven't
used a lot of them. maybe 5 or 6. I have some out for a couple of years now,
and have yet to have one fail, but I sure wouldn't want to bet my entire
business
case on them, or any other splice method either. :)

John

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>
> "some success"  :)
>
> They have leaked for me.  If I have to splice I try to do it inside at
> point of entry with a coupler or keystone jack.  If it has to be done
> outside I use these..
>
> http://www.shop.com/op/~PETRA_300_071_UY_Gel_Splice_Connector_2_Port-prod-30304739-39574282?sourceid=3
>
>
> and mastic and super 33+.
>
> Brian
>
> J. Vogel wrote:
>> I have used these with some success.
>>
>> http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=565-0107&R=565%2D0107&sid=45F9DE0075EFE17F
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>> Travis Johnson wrote:
>>  
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We sometimes have to move people's radios because of tree growth,
>>> changing towers, etc. The biggest pain is having to re-run the CAT5
>>> cable because it won't reach. Has anyone ever seen some type of
>>> outdoor coupler or even something you could put around a normal
>>> coupler and just extend the cable without re-running the whole thing?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] outside connection

[J. Vogel]

I have used these with some success.

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=565-0107&R=565%2D0107&sid=45F9DE0075EFE17F

John

Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We sometimes have to move people's radios because of tree growth,
> changing towers, etc. The biggest pain is having to re-run the CAT5
> cable because it won't reach. Has anyone ever seen some type of
> outdoor coupler or even something you could put around a normal
> coupler and just extend the cable without re-running the whole thing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Travis
> Microserv
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[WISPA] UHF tower co-location

[J. Vogel]

looking for someone that knows more about this than me  (which may be
most everybody) to give me a quick heads-up..

Up to this point, all of the access points I have deployed have been on
water towers or buildings which did not have any other significant RF
equipment on them. I may have an opportunity to co-locate on a UHF
TV transmitter tower now though. Can someone tell me in just a few
words whether or not I should even consider mounting WISP equipment
on such a tower, and what some of the issues I would face would be?

According to the FCC site, the tower is operating  between 566-572 mhz
at about 12.5kW analog, and 7.2kW digital. Interference in unlicensed
bands (900mHz, 2.4gHz, and 5.8gHz), radio frequency hazards etc...
any information you could give me would be helpful.

John
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Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

[J. Vogel]

Fair enough. I might have been a little on the touchy side myself there.
In the context of
what I had been reading, particularly a comment about how the use of 5.4
was going to
require someone to install another phone line just to handle complaints
from the DoD,
coupled with the current excitement around the list that some WISPs have
*gasp* been
using un-certified gear, it appeared to me that your question might have
been motivated
by suspicion in that regard.

Thanks for the clarification.

John Vogel


John Scrivner wrote:
>
> I was honestly not sure what he was saying. For all I know he was
> saying these are available in legal form at this price. I have heard
> they are out there and that there are two which have been certified
> for legal use in the Us but nobody has ever said what brand they are,
> who sells them, what they cost, etc.. I was not insinuating anything.
> Just curious what he was saying here.
> Scriv
>
>
> J. Vogel wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that
>> any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a
>> claim to
>> have done it himself?
>>
>> John Vogel
>>
>> John Scrivner wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Travis,
>>> Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
>>> Scriv
>>>
>>>
>>> Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say
>>>> someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with
>>>> internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for
>>>> less than $300...
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Following the FCC rules ?????

[J. Vogel]

John,

Maybe I missed something, but how do you get from Travis' statement that
any user could do it, to questioning Travis as to whether that was a
claim to
have done it himself?

John Vogel

John Scrivner wrote:
>
> Travis,
> Are saying you are using 5.4 GHz radios in the US?
> Scriv
>
>
> Travis Johnson wrote:
>
>> 
>>
>> Yes, DoD may have a little more push with the FCC, but, who's to say
>> someone can't buy 5.4ghz right now today and put it up? Any user with
>> internet access could order and install a 5.4ghz AP tomorrow for
>> less than $300...
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Advanced Bandwidth Management

[J. Vogel]

I would suspect that the customer (as is the case in much of the world,
not necessarily in the limited
world you may operate in) does not want to, or in many case could not
pay for such a pipe. In many
areas of the US, especially rural, bandwidth is extremely expensive.
Customers do not want to pay
close to $1k / month for their residential connection to the internet,
yet the customer would like to
access the internet at speed approaching 1.5 mbps (or even faster)
whenever they can. In such a case
it makes sense, is good business practice, and not at all unethical to
sell customers shared bandwidth.

In cases such as these, the question posed by the OP is a valid
question, and deserves an answer
other than one which implies that they may be doing something they
should not be. The world is a big
place. It is good to get out and see parts of it you may not have seen
lately.

John

Matt Liotta wrote:
>
> Have you thought about selling the customer a pipe that works for any
> and all traffic at the speed the customer signed up for as opposed to
> deciding for the customer?
>
> -Matt
>
>

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Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

[J. Vogel]

Does that BreezeACCESS CPE do 5 mile *NECLoS shots? Usable links that is...
Serious question... I don't know. If it does, I will have to re-think
how I am doing
things

John

* Not Even Close to Line of Sight...

Patrick Leary wrote:
> Dang, that's as much as $100 more than a real BreezeACCESS CPE (under
> the AlvarionCOMNET program) without needing to piece things together so
> the points of failure risk and truck roll is both much smaller, not to
> mention a warranty and domestic supply and support. VL CPE comes with
> mounting hardware too and the cable. Our stuff is also all fully FCC
> legal.
>
> (donning flame suit now)
>
> - Patrick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:51 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
>
> Exactly, after you add the rootenna,  you are at $348, plus
> International 
> Shipping charges (if in US).
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "cw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
>
>
>   
>> http://www.star-v3.com/store/
>>
>> $262 ea in ten packs + roo.
>>
>> Rick Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Where are people buying their SR9 client setups, if at all ?
>>>  What kind of pricing per "CPE"
>>>  I'm looking at a couple places, and coming back with like $350 each
>>>   
> for 
>   
>>> a
>>> rootenna / cable / SR9 / P.S. and RB112
>>>  Anyone see anything different ?
>>>  R
>>>
>>>   
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>> 
>
>   
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Re: [WISPA] Motor controlled rotating poles

[J. Vogel]

It looks to me like all that is needed is a slip ring for power. Surely
a WISP will
be able to figure out how to get data to/from the rotating units without
using wires.
:)

John


Brett Hays wrote:
>
> Wow, an ethernet slip ring...bet that could cause all sorts of problems.
>
> - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List"
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:54 PM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Motor controlled rotating poles
>
>
>> I think a simple TV antenna rotator would do the trick.  If you got
>> an IP
>> camera with dry contact outputs, like the Axis network cameras, you
>> could
>> wire up some relays connected to the outputs of the camera that would
>> rotate the pole in either direction.  The contact outputs on the axis
>> cameras can be controlled through the web interface.  You'd need a slip
>> ring arrangement of some sort or limit switches on the rotator so that
>> your ethernet and control cables don't get all wrapped up when the pole
>> rotates, of course.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>>> Tom,
>>> I would try and look up something from the ham radio realm. They have
>>> remote control systems for remote mounted radios. My idea would be
>>> is you
>>> can find something with a software package that can remotely control a
>>> rotor. This rotor would have your AP and camera mounted to the short
>>> section
>>> of mast on top of the rotor. This could be an inexpensive TV antenna
>>> rotor.
>>> Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that I know does
>>> this but
>>> that's because I don't play with remote controlled radios much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>> Brian Webster
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:21 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Motor controlled rotating poles
>>>
>>>
>>> For the longest time, I wanted to build a solution to do the following,
>>> from
>>> each of our Master Cell Sites
>>>
>>> 1) Rotate a IP Camera 360 deg (remotely over an IP connection)
>>> 2) Rotate a Pole with a Trango Fox 5800SU on it 360 deg (remotely
>>> over IP
>>> connection).
>>>
>>> The purpose is two fold
>>>
>>> When Link quality severally degrades for a short period, either packet
>>> loss
>>> or rssi,
>>>
>>> 1) To discover/view when there is a third party worker working on
>>> the roof
>>> of our cell site.
>>>   (Who may be standing in front of antennas periodically or testing
>>> gear
>>> that interfers without getting pre-approved)
>>>
>>> 2) To do a spectrum site survey, on the fly in any direction, to
>>> find the
>>> least noisy channel, WITHOUT taking the primary sector antenna down
>>> (offline).
>>>
>>> By having the radio and the camera on the same pole, it would help
>>> confirm
>>> which direction we were pointing exactly when doing the survey. One
>>> of the
>>> other requirements is that it won't turn more that 360 in one
>>> direction to
>>> prevent cable CAT5 breaking, and to ahve a refference of the starting
>>> point
>>> in deg, calibrated to a known direction (north 0 deg?).   What would
>>> REALLY
>>> be cool, is if it had a speaker out put on the camera, so I could
>>> yell at
>>> the worker standing in front of my antenna :-).   I'm aware that some
>>> camera
>>> may have an output for controlling a relay or servo motor, as some
>>> solutions/platforms exist to mount and rotate a single camera attached.
>>> Preferably, I'd like a solution that could rotate the pole itself.
>>> Everything of course would need to be outdoor survivable, and strong
>>> enough
>>> that the pole would stay errect and safe at 200-300 feet up.  My
>>> thought
>>> is
>>> that maybe the controls could be initiated from the IP Camera
>>> connections,
>>> If I found a rotating platform/pole mount.
>>>
>>> Are there any mechanical hobbyists out there, that might suggest the
>>> most
>>> cost effective way to accomplish this?
>>> (My goal is lowest cost, lowest cost, lowest cost, so I can afford to
>>> replicate the solution at about 20 locations)
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Multi-Mini-PCI self interference

[J. Vogel]

I haven't tested with equipment, but I am running several repeaters
with two 2.4 Ghz cards in the same enclosure (on the same board) without
issue. I am even managing to do it without any separation to speak of on
the antennas, as they are mounted within 18 inches of each other in several
cases. No apparent problems with interference that I can detect, as long as
the channel separation is adequate.

John


Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
> Has anyonoe tested the amount of self interference created between two
> MiniPCI RF cards mounted in the same box in the same spectrum range?
> Does the connector bleed RF? My original thought for multi-Slot boards
> (Mikroti/WAR) was that if I wanted to put in 4 cards, I could put in a
> 2.4, 900, 5.3, and 5.8G all in the same box without self interference
> since they were in different spectrum ranges.
> But can two cards be put in, within the same range (Qty 2- 5.3Ghz
> cards for example) without interference?
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] SR9 problems..
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wouldn't recommend more than one SR9 per RB532. They draw a lot of
>> power, and you will probably burn up your RB after a while.
>>
>> Also, there is a frequency conversion chart in the Mikrotik forums on
>> how the 2.4ghz channels translate to the 900mhz channels. Mikrotik
>> will be fixing this in the 3.0 release.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> J. Vogel wrote:
>>> I finally got a chance to play with the SR9 cards I got in last week.
>>> Installed them
>>> in a RB532 running 2.9.30, along with one Prism nl-2511mp plus and a
>>> RouterBoard r52 (Atheros chipset?). Not working.
>>>
>>> First off, the SR9s are big enough that they don't fit everwhere you
>>> might think they
>>> should... such as on the top side of a RB112. Neither do they fit in
>>> one
>>> of the two
>>> slots in the expansion daughterboard for a RB532. Swapping cards
>>> around,
>>> I did
>>> get the two SR9s in with the other two cards above. One is on the
>>> daughterboard,
>>> the other is (I think) on the back side of RB532. Fired up the system,
>>> and it shows
>>> four wireless interfaces. The Prism, and the rb52 (which shows up as
>>> Atheros AR5413)
>>> both work, am able to configure them and pass traffic through them as
>>> desired.
>>>
>>> The other two interfaces are listed as AR5213 cards. Is that
>>> correct? When I
>>> attempt to configure those interfaces (using winbox) the only option I
>>> have available
>>> for the RF band is 2.4Ghz, along with the B,G 10mHz and 5 mHz
>>> options in
>>> that
>>> band. Channels 1 through 11 in the 2.4 range are available for me to
>>> select. Nothing
>>> about 900 mHz.
>>>
>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
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[WISPA] SR9 problems..

[J. Vogel]

I finally got a chance to play with the SR9 cards I got in last week.
Installed them
in a RB532 running 2.9.30, along with one Prism nl-2511mp plus and a 
RouterBoard r52 (Atheros chipset?). Not working.

First off, the SR9s are big enough that they don't fit everwhere you
might think they
should... such as on the top side of a RB112. Neither do they fit in one
of the two
slots in the expansion daughterboard for a RB532. Swapping cards around,
I did
get the two SR9s in with the other two cards above. One is on the
daughterboard,
the other is (I think) on the back side of RB532. Fired up the system,
and it shows
four wireless interfaces. The Prism, and the rb52 (which shows up as
Atheros AR5413)
both work, am able to configure them and pass traffic through them as
desired.

The other two interfaces are listed as AR5213 cards. Is that correct? When I
attempt to configure those interfaces (using winbox) the only option I
have available
for the RF band is 2.4Ghz, along with the B,G 10mHz and 5 mHz options in
that
band. Channels 1 through 11 in the 2.4 range are available for me to
select. Nothing
about 900 mHz.

What am I doing wrong?

John
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Re: [WISPA] Insurance for use of bucket truck or lift for installs.

[J. Vogel]

Travis brings up a good point I think. When I purchased insurance on my
bucket truck,
I specifically asked the agent about possible problems with it being a
bucket truck, and
he assured me that as far as the automotive liability insurance was
concerned, the bucket
had no effect, as any mis-haps involving the use of the bucket itself
would not fall
under automotive insurance policies. It would effect comprehensive
insurance as the
value of the truck would be increased, but my truck is old enough I just
took liability
on it.

I too think issues with the use of the bucket would more likely be
covered under
my general liability policy, unless it was a case of employee injury
(falling out of the
bucket) which would fall under workman's comp. Meanwhile, I use the
truck because
it is so much safer for me (and any employee's I might hire) than
working from a ladder.

The holder of my general business liability may well disclaim any
responsibility because
they think it should be the automotive insurer's. :)

I hope I never have to find out.

John


Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> There are several other factors to consider here insurance on the
> vehicle itself is to cover if you damage someone else's property
> (vehicle) by getting into an accident on the road. You may also have
> full-coverage insurance to pay to fix the bucket truck itself.
>
> However, the other issue is general liability insurance... if you have
> someone in the bucket and they go thru someone's roof because they
> aren't paying attention, wouldn't that be covered by your general
> liability policy, rather than the auto insurance policy?
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> P.S. In almost 10 years in the wireless business, and well over
> 1,000,000 miles logged on over 20 wireless vehicles during that time
> (including several bucket trucks), we have never had an insurance
> claim...  yet my rates continue to go up every year... :(
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> When you put it that way... It does bring a new perpective to
>> think about. Well said.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Tim Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance for use of bucket truck or lift for
>> installs.
>>
>>
>>> Tom, I do share some of same views that You have. I just thought it
>>> would be a good idea to present the pros and cons of "omitting"
>>> information. There are 2 types of insurance customers it seems?. The
>>> first one is like Yourself. You buy the insurance because You have
>>> to, and the thought of using it doesn't really cross Your mind for
>>> all the reasons You mentioned below. If it were possible, I am sure
>>> that insurance CO's would love to find a way to discern the quality
>>> customers from the irresponsible ones, and charge lower rates based
>>> on this fact, and the fact that the bucket is only used once a
>>> month?. That sad part is there is no real way to do this, as
>>> insurance is based on the law of large #'s, and in order for it to
>>> work, everyone must be lumped together in one big "pool"(for lack of
>>> other words?). Your customer profile is fairly common though. I
>>> respect the fact that when the truck is in the field, only
>>> responsible operators like Yourself will be operating the bucket,
>>> being extra cautious as to whats going on around You and whats
>>> happening when the boom is moving etc. This is the way it should be
>>> at all times. Now lets move on to the second type of customer(The
>>> most uncommon, believe it or not?). This person usually does
>>> everything they can to cut corners, not only with work ethics and
>>> install qualities but also with their level of responsibilties in
>>> the day to day operation of their business. This customer will hire
>>> the cheapest employee that will work for them, skimp on safety and
>>> vehicle maintainence,  owe $$ to most of the vendors he or she does
>>> business with and they will usually try and call their employees
>>> "Sub-contractors", trying to avoid paying taxes and workmans
>>> compensation to make more $$(This is really an entirely different
>>> topic, but I am just using this as an example?). This risk taking
>>> carries over to things such as the safe use of a bucket truck. If
>>> You remember, I mentioned that the people that work for this person
>>> are really only there because they can not find a job anywhere else,
>>> and our business owner in question hires them because it is cheap
>>> labor. The day comes when the bucket truck is needed for an install,
>>> and our employee gets behind the wheel to do the job(Keep in mind
>>> that our employee was up half the night boozing with his/her
>>> friends, and just found it their spouse is messing with the
>>> neighbor). When at the job site, this employee will not have very
>>> good safety principles, and will do something rea

[WISPA] MT Bridge quits bridging.

[J. Vogel]

I have a Mikrotik unit that had been running pretty flawlessly for
almost a year
that has failed 3 times in the last 2 1/2 days or so. The unit is a
RB532  with
MT 2.9.28 on it, 32 MB Ram, 265Mhz processor, Atheros AR5213 radio
bridged to ether1, WDS, associated to its sister unit for a ptp link.

When it fails, I can ping and log in to the radio from either interface.
There
doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary, I have all logging set to
remote, and nothing shows up on the log server, but no traffic seems to
be bridged between the ether1 and wlan1 interfaces. Ping watchdog doesn't
do any good, since both interfaces work fine, and pings from the unit
to network devices on either side of the bridge are successful. Pings
through
the unit fail however, as does all other traffic.. Power cycling the
unit, or
logging in to it and executing a reboot fixes it.

Any ideas what is causing this to happen, or how to prevent it? I
suspect malicious
packets being sent through (or to.. although it has only an rfc 1918
address on it)
the unit as the culprit. I do have a few firewall rules on it, although
that is minimal.

The last two times it locked up were just before 5:00 pm. Maybe when the
kids
got home from school and someone turned on a virus infected computer?

John Vogel

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Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Thanks. I have a call in to Gabriele crane service in Rolla,
but they haven't yet returned it. The tower is in St. James.

John
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Mark McElvy wrote:
> I know there is a crane service in Rolla, MO, never used them and don't
> know the name offhand. Did you buy that tower in St James?
>
> Mark McElvy
> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
> 573.729.9200 - Office
> 573.729.9203 - Fax
> 573.247.9980 - Mobile
> http://www.accubak.com/
> http://www.accubak.net/
> Nationwide Internet Access
> Accurate backups for your critical data! 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:40 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service
>
> Correction: I should have said... about 75 miles WEST of St. Louis..
>
> J. Vogel wrote:
>   
>> Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
>> but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
>> any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
>> assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
>> 75 miles east of St. Louis?
>>
>> Email me offlist if you wish.
>>
>> Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming
>>
>> John Vogel
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   
>> 

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Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Correction: I should have said... about 75 miles WEST of St. Louis..

J. Vogel wrote:
> Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
> but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
> any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
> assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
> 75 miles east of St. Louis?
>
> Email me offlist if you wish.
>
> Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming
>
> John Vogel
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
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Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Thanks!  That kind of feedback is useful also.

John



Blake Bowers wrote:
>
> I can tell you, RUN from Carson Mitchell Crane service,
> out of Springfield (But they service in St Louis from time
> to time.  RUN!!!
>
> Can I emphasize that any more?  RUN
>
> - Original Message - From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:42 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service
>
>
>> Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
>> but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
>> any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
>> assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
>> 75 miles east of St. Louis?
>>
>
>
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[WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
75 miles east of St. Louis?

Email me offlist if you wish.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming

John Vogel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WISPA] I need a cheap watchdog/reboot thingy

[J. Vogel]

Thanks for your help, but I believe that is overkill for what I want.

This might have been what I saw... It looks like what I want anyway.

http://www.hw-group.com/products/ip_watchdog/index_lite_en.html

Now if I could just figure out how to buy some of them

John Vogel


KyWiFi LLC wrote:

>Here's the version I think you are looking for John:
>http://tinyurl.com/z7ovs  I purchased one of these a
>while back but haven't had the time to play with it yet.
>It's like $200 off right now while they still have stock
>so you better go grab one if this is what you are looking
>for.
>
>
>Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
>KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
>"Your Hometown Broadband Provider"
>http://www.KyWiFi.com
>Call Us Today: 859.274.4033
>===
>$39.99 DSL High Speed Internet
>$14.99 Home Phone Service
>- No Phone Line Required for DSL
>- FREE Activation & Equipment
>- Affordable Upfront Pricing
>- Locally Owned & Operated
>- We Also Service Most Rural Areas
>===
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 8:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] I need a cheap watchdog/reboot thingy
>
>
>HI,
>
>We have used many of these, but they aren't sub-$100...
>
>http://www.digital-loggers.com/EPC.html
>
>Travis
>Microserv
>
>J. Vogel wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I seem to recall that someone posted a link to a sub-$100 ping
>>watchdog/reboot
>>unit on one of these lists recently, but I cannot locate the message I
>>am thinking
>>I saw. I need a simple device to power-cycle an access point radio or
>>two when
>>pings to the network default gateway fail.
>>
>>Can anybody point me to such a thing? Thanks!
>>
>>John Vogel
>> 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] I need a cheap watchdog/reboot thingy

[J. Vogel]

Thanks for the link, but this isn't what I was thinking of.
Maybe I was dreaming, but I sure thought I saw a picture
of a small device, one ethernet port only, and either a single
or duplex outlet or maybe it switched DC voltage...
that would fit in a 8X12X4
box with lots of room to spare. It seems to me that somebody
posted a link to such a thing a couple of weeks or months ago.

John Vogel

Travis Johnson wrote:

>
> HI,
>
> We have used many of these, but they aren't sub-$100...
>
> http://www.digital-loggers.com/EPC.html
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> J. Vogel wrote:
>
>> I seem to recall that someone posted a link to a sub-$100 ping
>> watchdog/reboot
>> unit on one of these lists recently, but I cannot locate the message I
>> am thinking
>> I saw. I need a simple device to power-cycle an access point radio or
>> two when
>> pings to the network default gateway fail.
>>
>> Can anybody point me to such a thing? Thanks!
>>
>> John Vogel
>>  
>>

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[WISPA] I need a cheap watchdog/reboot thingy

[J. Vogel]

I seem to recall that someone posted a link to a sub-$100 ping
watchdog/reboot
unit on one of these lists recently, but I cannot locate the message I
am thinking
I saw. I need a simple device to power-cycle an access point radio or
two when
pings to the network default gateway fail.

Can anybody point me to such a thing? Thanks!

John Vogel
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Re: [WISPA] Outdoor Ethernet Splice

[J. Vogel]

I haven't used these, but someone on one of these lists pointed them
out a while back.

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=565-0107

I am going to order some in one of these days. They look good to me.

John Vogel


Mark Nash wrote:

>Anyone have recommendations on products you use for outdoor, weatherproof
>ethernet splices?
>
>Mark Nash
>Network Engineer
>UnwiredOnline.Net
>350 Holly Street
>Junction City, OR 97448
>http://www.uwol.net
>541-998-
>541-998-5599 fax
>
>
>
>  
>
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Re: [WISPA] Outdoor Ethernet Splice

[J. Vogel]

I haven't used these, but someone on one of these lists pointed them
out a while back.

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=565-0107

I am going to order some in one of these days. They look good to me.

John Vogel


Mark Nash wrote:

>Anyone have recommendations on products you use for outdoor, weatherproof
>ethernet splices?
>
>Mark Nash
>Network Engineer
>UnwiredOnline.Net
>350 Holly Street
>Junction City, OR 97448
>http://www.uwol.net
>541-998-
>541-998-5599 fax
>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [WISPA] Anyone Know George?

[J. Vogel]

Did you spell Lamda correctly in the email address? you have an 'm' in there
in your question, and an 'n' in the posted response.

John Vogel


John Scrivner wrote:

>
> I had a new membership request for WISPA Principle Membership from
> George Vastardis from Lamda Communications. I tried to get him
> registered in the WISPA signup server and get this when I send him an
> invitation to join:
>
> Unknown host: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Anyone know him? Can someone tell him we are having trouble getting
> back to him?
> Thanks,
> Scriv
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

[J. Vogel]

I have used 1.5" (actually ~2" o.d.) galvanized water pipe
to do this, works great.

John


Scott Reed wrote:

> Thanks for the responses. I had originally thought 4" something, but
> looks like I will look at 1.5" and/or 2".
>
> I like that, Johnny. $150 to paint the pole brown and the antenna grid
> and radio box green and who will see it beside a tree, which is where
> this one will go.
>
> Scott Reed
> Owner
> NewWays
> Wireless Networking
> Network Design, Installation and Administration
> www.nwwnet.net 
>
> *-- Original Message ---*
> From: "JohnnyO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:57:24 -0500
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mounting pole size
>
> > Heck Cliff - I charged a customer $150.00 to use a $5.00 can of
> paint and 10 minutes to spray an antenna - they used "cosmetically
> pleasing" during the site survey - The way I see it is if they are
> that well versed in the english language to use a word I can't spell
> without spell check - it's gotta be worth something !
> >
> > JohnnyO
>
>
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Cliff
> > *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:42 AM
> > *To:* WISPA General List
> > *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Mounting pole size
> >
> >
> >
> > JohnnyO,
> >
> > You ARE a pimp! Where the luv for your customer?
> >
> >
> > Cliff – Work
> > 985-879-3219
> > www.cssla.com 
> > www.triparish.net 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
>
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *JohnnyO
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:15 AM
>> *To:* 'WISPA General List'
>> *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Mounting pole size
> >
> >
> > Mount it in a tree ? - the term "asthetics" generally triples
> our install price FYI !
> >
> >
> >
> > JohnnyO
>
>
> > -Original Message-
>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:05 AM
>> *To:* wireless@wispa.org
>> *Subject:* [WISPA] Mounting pole size
> > I have a site where the only place to get a signal is about
> 5 off the road and then run cable 100' back to the house. Only
> issue is asthetics; customer does not want a "big pole" in the
> yard. What is the smallest pole/mast/whatever you would use to
> get up 8 feet or so in open ground?
>>
>> Scott Reed
>> Owner
>> NewWays
>> Wireless Networking
>> Network Design, Installation and Administration
>> www.nwwnet.net  
>
>
> *--- End of Original Message ---*

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Re: [WISPA] Looking for...

[J. Vogel]

I am doing this without MT.. but I do have Linux running a transparent
bridge between my
customers and my core router. Use iptables to redirect (DNAT) the src IP
address web requests to
my webserver (I redirect requests to port 80 to my webservers address on
port 88) and
then have the virtual host on that web server which listens to that IP
on port 88 use
Mod_ReWrite to redirect all of the REQUEST_URIs to index.html.

Using this system, If I want to shut off a customer, all I do is enter
their assigned IP
once into IP tables, and ANY web reqests gets my index.html page. It
works for
http://yahoo.com/  and for http://yahoo.com/EERTS123X/ddd.asp/?sessid=7788

Two things to keep in mind..
1.You want to be careful about how much (possibly private) information
is put on
your web page. It may be fine to use that page to inform your customer
that they are a deadbeat, except that you cannot know which member of
the customer's family, friends, or relatives may be the first one use
the customer's
computer while visiting on vacation and be the one who gets to read about
your customer's account status. Your lawyer may have better advice.

2. It is probably a good idea to make your web page non-cacheable, so
that when
your customer does pay their bill and you re-enable their access, they don't
keep seeing your page instead of
http://yahoo.com/EERTS123X/ddd.asp/?sessid=7788

John

JNA wrote:

>I have been looking to implement this as well with our MT boxes. Does anyone
>have any samples? I know how to redirect an ip in the MT boxes but how do
>you redirect to a specific web page? Unless you setup a web server on the ip
>with a generic page just for that server you would get the main web site on
>the web server ip. Now if you could go to ip/yourshutoff.html that would be
>different.
>
>John
>
>
>  
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>Behalf Of Bo Hamilton
>>Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:16 PM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for...
>>
>>Redirect that IP to a webserver on your network.  You can do that on
>>just about any core router, Star-Os, MT and so on.
>>
>>Bo
>>
>>
>>
>>Ray & Jean wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Looking for a intro page, webpage ect.. That will let a customer know
>>>that their end user modem for wireless service has been cut off or
>>>deactivated due to lack of payments. When they click on their browser
>>>to view a website I would like the page to say; something like, "Sorry
>>>due to non-payment your internet web surfing has been stopped.. " Does
>>>anyone have a template or know how to make this work on the wireless
>>>modems?
>>>Thanks Jean
>>>www.surfmore.net
>>>  
>>>
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>
>  
>
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