Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I have 4.0beta4 running 10days on an N Link. 60+Mbit TCP up to 80. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!! Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot. - No WDS - Short preamble - No Periodic calibration - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled - Nstreme best fit only - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this. - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade) George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Nice. Thanks George. Was this just in a PTP environment or PTM also? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:39 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!! Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot. - No WDS - Short preamble - No Periodic calibration - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled - Nstreme best fit only - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this. - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade) George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
PtP for us. Never tried PtMP. But it did work slick, to the point I'm considering trying it again. Nice to have fast 20MHz channels. We are having to use 40MHz now to achieve the same performance... The other bit worth mentioning is turning off the .11a data rates to force the radios into N mode. They can be a bit reluctant to shift into N modulations otherwise. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:47 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Thanks George. Was this just in a PTP environment or PTM also? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:39 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!! Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot. - No WDS - Short preamble - No Periodic calibration - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled - Nstreme best fit only - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this. - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade) George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
What was the distance you guys were able to get on N with these? Randy George Morris wrote: We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!! Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot. - No WDS - Short preamble - No Periodic calibration - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled - Nstreme best fit only - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this. - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade) George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Longest was 30 miles, next longest was 23. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link What was the distance you guys were able to get on N with these? Randy George Morris wrote: We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!! Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot. - No WDS - Short preamble - No Periodic calibration - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled - Nstreme best fit only - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this. - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade) George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Do you have any cheat sheets for any other versions? thanks, Randy George Morris wrote: Longest was 30 miles, next longest was 23. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link What was the distance you guys were able to get on N with these? Randy George Morris wrote: We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!! Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot. - No WDS - Short preamble - No Periodic calibration - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled - Nstreme best fit only - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this. - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade) George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
George, What antennas were you using? What was the rest of the setup you had for that? What was your throughput? Adding this info to my bag of tricks... Thanks! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of George Morris Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:41 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Longest was 30 miles, next longest was 23. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link What was the distance you guys were able to get on N with these? Randy George Morris wrote: We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!! Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot. - No WDS - Short preamble - No Periodic calibration - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled - Nstreme best fit only - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this. - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade) George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable? -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the v4.0beta releases anywhere? -Original Message- From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Maybe Cameron w/Wispmon will chime in and do a better job of explaining what the service offers and how it works better than me. My point in bringing Wispmon up was in response to paying $75 for a single path profile when Wispmon provides the same (probably better) information as often as you like. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
You mean you don't have a 52 widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30 monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. grin Hmmm...twin 52 monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display larger than 30 that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link You mean you don't have a 52 widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I used to run monitors this big but my neck began to hurt way too much.. Like watching tennis all day. ryan On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30 monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. grin Hmmm...twin 52 monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display larger than 30 that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link You mean you don't have a 52 widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30 monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30 monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. grin Hmmm...twin 52 monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display larger than 30 that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link You mean you don't have a 52 widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
ONLY 2 30? Okay, dude. I'm feeling sorry for you a little but surly you can pony up some of that moldy money and get a couple of Jumbo-Trons and the supporting semi-trailer. Get with the times. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30 monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. grin Hmmm...twin 52 monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display larger than 30 that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link You mean you don't have a 52 widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I was thinking of calling my pal, Woz, and see if he wants to let loose of that Diamond Vision screen he has gathering dust in his garage. He hasn't needed it since 1983.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30 monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30 monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. grin Hmmm...twin 52 monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display larger than 30 that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link You mean you don't have a 52 widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Same here. I normally use Delorme but in this case, the cost is justified. Besides, I'm passing the cost on to the customer :) On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I'll stick with the tried and true method for absolute sure signal path calculations, the Ouija board. I gave up the divining rod idea, it was off about 8% of the time. Couldn't handle the aggravation. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Same here. I normally use Delorme but in this case, the cost is justified. Besides, I'm passing the cost on to the customer :) On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Thanks, Mike. I'll give that one a spin. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
One thing I have noticed... it does not take into account multipath, or really anything else dealing with the terrain. The calculator is really a glorified free space loss calculator with a slick interface and the terrain profile. It seems to function well... but you have to take into account terrain yourself :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:16 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Hey, ya know I used that thing a few times a year or so ago but forgot all about it. Thanks for pointing me back to it! Any tips on using it for non-lingo equipment? Are the custom calculations fairly close to your true results? Any significant fudge factor on it? Thanks! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
It actually does take into account terrain data... Let us know if you have any other questions or suggestions for improvement. -Matt On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 13:29 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: One thing I have noticed... it does not take into account multipath, or really anything else dealing with the terrain. The calculator is really a glorified free space loss calculator with a slick interface and the terrain profile. It seems to function well... but you have to take into account terrain yourself :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:16 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Hey, ya know I used that thing a few times a year or so ago but forgot all about it. Thanks for pointing me back to it! Any tips on using it for non-lingo equipment? Are the custom calculations fairly close to your true results? Any significant fudge factor on it? Thanks! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Hello, LOL, I think the disclaimer as the bottom of the page cover this! DISCLAIMER: These results are provided with no guarantee or warranty. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I must have missed the day Ligowave announced 11GHz can go through mountains :-) Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. I'd also question you using the QPSK transmit power and receive sensitivity as the default values when everyone is interested in the 320Mbps throughput, which is considerably less power and a much higher receive level required. Constructive criticism... this is one of the better manufacturer calculators out there. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hardy Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link It actually does take into account terrain data... Let us know if you have any other questions or suggestions for improvement. -Matt On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 13:29 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: One thing I have noticed... it does not take into account multipath, or really anything else dealing with the terrain. The calculator is really a glorified free space loss calculator with a slick interface and the terrain profile. It seems to function well... but you have to take into account terrain yourself :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:16 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Hey, ya know I used that thing a few times a year or so ago but forgot all about it. Thanks for pointing me back to it! Any tips on using it for non-lingo equipment? Are the custom calculations fairly close to your true results? Any significant fudge factor on it? Thanks! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
As to WispmonWe've actually restructured the pricing plan since MUM with all the great feedback we got there. We also have a Wispmon Sales Edition out which is pretty low cost considering what it does. I'm not sure you'll find another piece of software that will run three simultaneous profiles from the three closest towers to your potential customer in less than 1 second with a single click. It sure has saved a bundle on physical site surveys for the Wisp side of our organization. It can be subscription based per year or permanent at your location. We offer a free 30 day trial on the full blown version as well, so if you want to check it out, feel free. This is not the better let us know in 30 days or we'll charge you out the wassu either. It really is just a trial. Regards, Cameron RickG wrote: As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 14:35 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: I must have missed the day Ligowave announced 11GHz can go through mountains :-) LOL... most 11GHz can't, only LigoWave. ;) We'll look into this and see what's going on with this link. Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. Currently there is just one Path Loss value which takes into account multipath and diffraction. Would you like to see it displayed separately? I'd also question you using the QPSK transmit power and receive sensitivity as the default values when everyone is interested in the 320Mbps throughput, which is considerably less power and a much higher receive level required. This is a good point, we debated about this but for the first release we decided to list the default values for making the link work, not necessarily the highest performance. We're thinking of ways to make this more clear... maybe adding an option for modulation/speed along with radio model. Constructive criticism... this is one of the better manufacturer calculators out there. Thanks, we really do appreciate it :) -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. Currently there is just one Path Loss value which takes into account multipath and diffraction. Would you like to see it displayed separately? Matt, The PDF that prints out only lists link availability due to rain. If diffraction and multipath were considered, that path profile I sent to the list would show a 0% reliability... It would be nice if they were separate line items either way... so you can tell if your issue is multipath/diffraction related or rain fade related. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hardy Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 14:35 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: I must have missed the day Ligowave announced 11GHz can go through mountains :-) LOL... most 11GHz can't, only LigoWave. ;) We'll look into this and see what's going on with this link. Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. Currently there is just one Path Loss value which takes into account multipath and diffraction. Would you like to see it displayed separately? I'd also question you using the QPSK transmit power and receive sensitivity as the default values when everyone is interested in the 320Mbps throughput, which is considerably less power and a much higher receive level required. This is a good point, we debated about this but for the first release we decided to list the default values for making the link work, not necessarily the highest performance. We're thinking of ways to make this more clear... maybe adding an option for modulation/speed along with radio model. Constructive criticism... this is one of the better manufacturer calculators out there. Thanks, we really do appreciate it :) -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
My calcs show that at 20 miles 30dB antennas and a nice low 20dB radio output will give you a -58 rssi. Should be easy for most any gear out there to run at least 10 megs. I've been REALLY happy with Airaya radios (www.airaya.com). For cheaper stuff I've also had good luck lately with MT gear. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
George, Glad to see it's not just us. We put in some MT N links when 4 was still beta. It worked awesome. Awesome. Then, somehow, the units have found their way into the upgrade stream, and performance sucks now. After pulling our hair out trying to figure out the problem, we choked it up to firmware. Like I said, glad to see it's not just us. We've already made the decision to more most of those to Rocket M links. We'll see. Jayson On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:35 AM, George Morris ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote: I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all. We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good, but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO. We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result. I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues, plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning. Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime. PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra performance is minimal for a major backhaul. George -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link At first I was like huh? but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets are new and the longevity has yet to be tested. I have both UBNT and MT backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect. My UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and forgotten about. Sucks but that's how it is. Not sure why that is, maybe Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit snags. I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you don't want to worry about, go with the MT. I'd go one further with his list though and use the R52N cards. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I am really, really having a hard time getting my head around using $90 radios for must work links. Maybe I'm being obstinate, I don't know. Just seems wrong somehow. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Price != Quality Windows 7 costs $400 while Linux distros are free Ubnt stuff is ~$100 while Engenius is ~$125 PSTN PBX can be $10k while Asterisk/FreePBX is free (plus $1000 hardware) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.comwrote: I am really, really having a hard time getting my head around using $90 radios for must work links. Maybe I'm being obstinate, I don't know. Just seems wrong somehow. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I would not concern yourself with this option because you can't buy one if you wanted to right now. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I am really, really having a hard time getting my head around using $90 radios for must work links. Maybe I'm being obstinate, I don't know. Just seems wrong somehow. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I've got an extra set, I don't need right now, never deployed will sell for my cost. Regards Michael Baird I would not concern yourself with this option because you can't buy one if you wanted to right now. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I am really, really having a hard time getting my head around using $90 radios for must work links. Maybe I'm being obstinate, I don't know. Just seems wrong somehow. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Why can't you? We've got a bunch of them recently, and have more on the way from distro right now. On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: I would not concern yourself with this option because you can't buy one if you wanted to right now. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I am really, really having a hard time getting my head around using $90 radios for must work links. Maybe I'm being obstinate, I don't know. Just seems wrong somehow. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
$75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Me = Cheap RadioMobile = Free Wispmon = Yikes! It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I didn't feel that price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That initializing that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. Another question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I see in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair rate? -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about RF. It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
[WISPA] 20 mile link
Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Rocket 5M w/ Rocket Dish (or whatever it's called) On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:22 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer. However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea $470 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list: 2 x RB411 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes 2 x PacWireless enclosures 2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice) 2 x pigtails 2 x LMR jumpers 2 x 18v PoE Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel (or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel). Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in 20mhz. Like 500 bucks in gear... On 11/30/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, great questions! Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum. 10Mbps would be plenty. Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company wont like a 10' dish :) Budget: $10k including tower. Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow licensed. POE or?: No preference. Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94. Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on WRAP/StarOS. Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: Depends... What type of throughput do you need? What size dishes can you use? What is the budget? Licensed or Unlicensed? PoE or some other configuration? What does the noise floor look like? What type of equipment do you already primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying). My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
