Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
If the subscriber can get the signal and use it they can certainly configure their own equipment to let the neighborhood on in so many ways it would drive you crazy. I use a combination of educating the user on why it's not a good idea to run it wide open (my child porn story comes in handy in this situation and I'm sure most of us have had those calls from whatever police department) and we configure whatever router they have or we sell them one and configure it for them for free. I have never, and I do mean never had anyone not have me configure the router and put a passphrase on it. The education part is the key to our solution. You could throttle it though, I think, like some do with the P2P. Allow a certain number of outgoing connections then drop it down. After the first phone call asking why it's so slow Well, do you happen to have an open wireless router..? The education would be over. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I don't know, but I think I'd run point-to-point wireless to the building and then run DSL in the building. I think it would be more reliable. --Curtis Robert West wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Yes, but you can limit the connections per IP to something that once several people get on it, it will die. Not much you can do with any type of router, why NAT is there. But there are plenty of tricks in there. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Nasty, super easy!Only down-side is the signup page is plan jane currently. But it gets the job done! --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings And MT has a RADIUS server piece that does authentication and is free. User Manager. But it is nasty to get going. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
http://www.dmasoftlab.com/cont/home This is the newer more updated site for radius manager Martha. Also might check out Gatespot from Wisp-router. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Martha Huizenga Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We are using Radius Manager 3 (http://www.radius-manager.com/?gclid=CNqwrZL8spwCFSMeDQodd2XJnQ). It's not the best, but it is the best we found for the price. Martha Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol Hill Community Join us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/64 096486706?ref=tsor follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/dcaccess /* Jeff Yette wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Could you not set the CPE to DHCP and the IP pool to allow only 1 IP address? Richard 2009/8/21 Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Sure, but the customer plugs that one connection into his own wireless router and runs it as a DHCP server. richard sterne wrote: Could you not set the CPE to DHCP and the IP pool to allow only 1 IP address? Richard 2009/8/21 Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new router in, by default, most routers use DHCP for configuration. They get a page that says...Your Router Lost it's Configuration... Here is documentation on how to set it up. In the instructions it walks them through setting up PPPoE and the wireless on their network. We then drive through the edition quarterly to audit and if we find one wide open, we log into the router and set the WPA Key to NETWORK_WIDE_OPEN or I_WAS_HERE. Then when they call we explain that neighbors may possibly be able to get into their computer, they are usually... Really, I didn't know that. If they refuse to lock it down, or we find it multiple times, it violates our Terms of Service and disable their account until they call in and we tell them to stop doing it or we will disconnect their service and that sharing is not permitted. We haven't had very many problems with it. We actually had someone call in because they felt guilty for stealing one of our customer's internet. We got there for a site-survey and found he was pulling off of Comcast, not us. We left it... Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Sure, but the customer plugs that one connection into his own wireless router and runs it as a DHCP server. richard sterne wrote: Could you not set the CPE to DHCP and the IP pool to allow only 1 IP address? Richard 2009/8/21 Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
No not really because the broadband router they would use only need 1 IP then it runs dhcp server on the inside and your AP/hotspot controller cannot see what is on the inside of the customers network you only see the on IP and it's single MAC address. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of richard sterne Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Could you not set the CPE to DHCP and the IP pool to allow only 1 IP address? Richard 2009/8/21 Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Just as a FYI. Systems like Ruckus Wireless have built in 'Rouge AP' detection capabilities. Which would allow you to manage such from remote, without the need to do a 'fly by'. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new router in, by default, most routers use DHCP for configuration. They get a page that says...Your Router Lost it's Configuration... Here is documentation on how to set it up. In the instructions it walks them through setting up PPPoE and the wireless on their network. We then drive through the edition quarterly to audit and if we find one wide open, we log into the router and set the WPA Key to NETWORK_WIDE_OPEN or I_WAS_HERE. Then when they call we explain that neighbors may possibly be able to get into their computer, they are usually... Really, I didn't know that. If they refuse to lock it down, or we find it multiple times, it violates our Terms of Service and disable their account until they call in and we tell them to stop doing it or we will disconnect their service and that sharing is not permitted. We haven't had very many problems with it. We actually had someone call in because they felt guilty for stealing one of our customer's internet. We got there for a site-survey and found he was pulling off of Comcast, not us. We left it... Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Sure, but the customer plugs that one connection into his own wireless router and runs it as a DHCP server. richard sterne wrote: Could you not set the CPE to DHCP and the IP pool to allow only 1 IP address? Richard 2009/8/21 Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I think it was Earthlink that did have a technology by which they could see the different MACs behind a router. I wish I could remember how they said it worked. They did tell me that at the time, they were not worrying about how many computers were behind your NAT. Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Rogue detection mostly a joke. Now before you go all whacky on me- I don't mean that it is a joke to want to know if you have someone who has brought an AP into the office building and inadvertently created a hole in the armor. I just mean that there is very little use for it other than that. When I was the Wireless Subject Matter Expert for Coca-Cola, I would have loved this in our corporate headquarters. I actually tried to buy an IDS but could not fund it. A 25 floor reflective glass and steel office building is generally isolated enough from the outside world that a rogue showing up WOULD likely be on your network. Only place I see any use is in a controlled place like that. And by the way, I shut down many a rogue using Airmagnet Laptop's geiger counter function. The highlight of the day was the shocked look on someone's face when I would barge into their office, unplug the AP and put it and all the wires on their desk all in about 10 seconds! Since then, I have done many outdoor mesh systems and indoor wireless systems using the Cisco Wireless LAN Controller based product. They include rogue AP detection and it is not only a royal pain, it cannot be disabled. Who cares if Joe down on the corner has an AP? Rogue detection wastes time and resources and is truly only accurate/usable in a controlled setting. In a four square mile city, I had 300-400 rogue alerts at any given time! I knew where every Linksys was in the city. And heaven forbid you had a node near a Wal-Mart or Home Depot. I saw Ruckus' announcement with their controller product and thought now there's another company that is introducing something that really serves no purpose. Anyway- just my two cents about rogue detection Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Just as a FYI. Systems like Ruckus Wireless have built in 'Rouge AP' detection capabilities. Which would allow you to manage such from remote, without the need to do a 'fly by'. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new router in, by default, most routers use DHCP for configuration. They get a page that says...Your Router Lost it's Configuration... Here is documentation on how to set it up. In the instructions it walks them through setting up PPPoE and the wireless on their network. We then drive through the edition quarterly to audit and if we find one wide open, we log into the router and set the WPA Key to NETWORK_WIDE_OPEN or I_WAS_HERE. Then when they call we explain that neighbors may possibly be able to get into their computer, they are usually... Really, I didn't know that. If they refuse to lock it down, or we find it multiple times, it violates our Terms of Service and disable their account until they call in and we tell them to stop doing it or we will disconnect their service and that sharing is not permitted. We haven't had very many problems with it. We actually had someone call in because they felt guilty for stealing one of our customer's internet. We got there for a site-survey and found he was pulling off of Comcast, not us. We left it... Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Sure, but the customer plugs that one connection into his own wireless router and runs it as a DHCP server. richard sterne wrote: Could you not set the CPE to DHCP and the IP pool to allow only 1 IP address? Richard 2009/8/21 Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Pretty confident finding the MACs behind a NAT device is impossible. I do remember some discussion on this list (or the Moto one) that suggested a white paper by a company that had created software that can intelligently guess if there was NAT judging by how it created sockets. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:38 PM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Rogue detection mostly a joke. Now before you go all whacky on me- I don't mean that it is a joke to want to know if you have someone who has brought an AP into the office building and inadvertently created a hole in the armor. I just mean that there is very little use for it other than that. When I was the Wireless Subject Matter Expert for Coca-Cola, I would have loved this in our corporate headquarters. I actually tried to buy an IDS but could not fund it. A 25 floor reflective glass and steel office building is generally isolated enough from the outside world that a rogue showing up WOULD likely be on your network. Only place I see any use is in a controlled place like that. And by the way, I shut down many a rogue using Airmagnet Laptop's geiger counter function. The highlight of the day was the shocked look on someone's face when I would barge into their office, unplug the AP and put it and all the wires on their desk all in about 10 seconds! Since then, I have done many outdoor mesh systems and indoor wireless systems using the Cisco Wireless LAN Controller based product. They include rogue AP detection and it is not only a royal pain, it cannot be disabled. Who cares if Joe down on the corner has an AP? Rogue detection wastes time and resources and is truly only accurate/usable in a controlled setting. In a four square mile city, I had 300-400 rogue alerts at any given time! I knew where every Linksys was in the city. And heaven forbid you had a node near a Wal-Mart or Home Depot. I saw Ruckus' announcement with their controller product and thought now there's another company that is introducing something that really serves no purpose. Anyway- just my two cents about rogue detection Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Just as a FYI. Systems like Ruckus Wireless have built in 'Rouge AP' detection capabilities. Which would allow you to manage such from remote, without the need to do a 'fly by'. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new router in, by default, most routers use DHCP for configuration. They get a page that says...Your Router Lost it's Configuration... Here is documentation on how to set it up. In the instructions it walks them through setting up PPPoE and the wireless on their network. We then drive through the edition quarterly to audit and if we find one wide open, we log into the router and set the WPA Key to NETWORK_WIDE_OPEN or I_WAS_HERE. Then when they call we explain that neighbors may possibly be able to get into their computer, they are usually... Really, I didn't know that. If they refuse to lock it down, or we find it multiple times, it violates our Terms of Service and disable their account until they call in and we tell them to stop doing it or we will disconnect their service and that sharing is not permitted. We haven't had very many problems with it. We actually had someone call in because they felt guilty for stealing one of our customer's internet. We got there for a site-survey and found he was pulling off of Comcast, not us. We left it... Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Sure, but the customer plugs that one connection into his own wireless router and runs it as a DHCP server. richard sterne wrote: Could you not set the CPE to DHCP and the IP pool to allow only 1 IP address? Richard 2009/8/21 Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com Not seen
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
The only one that I know that does that is Perftech. Otherwise, it must be a black hole. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Pretty confident finding the MACs behind a NAT device is impossible. I do remember some discussion on this list (or the Moto one) that suggested a white paper by a company that had created software that can intelligently guess if there was NAT judging by how it created sockets. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:38 PM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Rogue detection mostly a joke. Now before you go all whacky on me- I don't mean that it is a joke to want to know if you have someone who has brought an AP into the office building and inadvertently created a hole in the armor. I just mean that there is very little use for it other than that. When I was the Wireless Subject Matter Expert for Coca-Cola, I would have loved this in our corporate headquarters. I actually tried to buy an IDS but could not fund it. A 25 floor reflective glass and steel office building is generally isolated enough from the outside world that a rogue showing up WOULD likely be on your network. Only place I see any use is in a controlled place like that. And by the way, I shut down many a rogue using Airmagnet Laptop's geiger counter function. The highlight of the day was the shocked look on someone's face when I would barge into their office, unplug the AP and put it and all the wires on their desk all in about 10 seconds! Since then, I have done many outdoor mesh systems and indoor wireless systems using the Cisco Wireless LAN Controller based product. They include rogue AP detection and it is not only a royal pain, it cannot be disabled. Who cares if Joe down on the corner has an AP? Rogue detection wastes time and resources and is truly only accurate/usable in a controlled setting. In a four square mile city, I had 300-400 rogue alerts at any given time! I knew where every Linksys was in the city. And heaven forbid you had a node near a Wal-Mart or Home Depot. I saw Ruckus' announcement with their controller product and thought now there's another company that is introducing something that really serves no purpose. Anyway- just my two cents about rogue detection Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Just as a FYI. Systems like Ruckus Wireless have built in 'Rouge AP' detection capabilities. Which would allow you to manage such from remote, without the need to do a 'fly by'. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new router in, by default, most routers use DHCP for configuration. They get a page that says...Your Router Lost it's Configuration... Here is documentation on how to set it up. In the instructions it walks them through setting up PPPoE and the wireless on their network. We then drive through the edition quarterly to audit and if we find one wide open, we log into the router and set the WPA Key to NETWORK_WIDE_OPEN or I_WAS_HERE. Then when they call we explain that neighbors may possibly be able to get into their computer, they are usually... Really, I didn't know that. If they refuse to lock it down, or we find it multiple times, it violates our Terms of Service and disable their account until they call in and we tell them to stop doing it or we will disconnect their service and that sharing is not permitted. We haven't had very many problems with it. We actually had someone call in because they felt guilty for stealing one of our customer's internet. We got there for a site-survey and found he was pulling off of Comcast, not us. We left it... Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Friday, August 21
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
You are right. See below From Perftech- Subscriber PC Audit Application Name: Audit Sentry The Audit Sentry application counts and reports the number of users behind a PC modem, helping to detect and resolve theft of service, intended or unintended, for the Provider. It can also alert subscribers to potentially unsecured Wi-Fi access. The network-based application provides continuous monitoring of the number of users on each account, even behind NAT or Wi-Fi routers, proxies, or firewalls. Any resulting high number of users on a single account, as set by the Provider, serves as a contributing indicator of potential theft of service. Benefits: .Providers can more easily spot those who may be attempting theft of service .Providers can avoid any physical confrontation associated with on-site investigation of a potentially illegal sharing of a modem .Providers can message the potential abuser, often causing the service theft to desist .Unsuspecting subscribers can be made aware of uninvited access to their Wi-Fi network and take appropriate steps to secure it -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Schmidt Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The only one that I know that does that is Perftech. Otherwise, it must be a black hole. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Pretty confident finding the MACs behind a NAT device is impossible. I do remember some discussion on this list (or the Moto one) that suggested a white paper by a company that had created software that can intelligently guess if there was NAT judging by how it created sockets. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:38 PM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Rogue detection mostly a joke. Now before you go all whacky on me- I don't mean that it is a joke to want to know if you have someone who has brought an AP into the office building and inadvertently created a hole in the armor. I just mean that there is very little use for it other than that. When I was the Wireless Subject Matter Expert for Coca-Cola, I would have loved this in our corporate headquarters. I actually tried to buy an IDS but could not fund it. A 25 floor reflective glass and steel office building is generally isolated enough from the outside world that a rogue showing up WOULD likely be on your network. Only place I see any use is in a controlled place like that. And by the way, I shut down many a rogue using Airmagnet Laptop's geiger counter function. The highlight of the day was the shocked look on someone's face when I would barge into their office, unplug the AP and put it and all the wires on their desk all in about 10 seconds! Since then, I have done many outdoor mesh systems and indoor wireless systems using the Cisco Wireless LAN Controller based product. They include rogue AP detection and it is not only a royal pain, it cannot be disabled. Who cares if Joe down on the corner has an AP? Rogue detection wastes time and resources and is truly only accurate/usable in a controlled setting. In a four square mile city, I had 300-400 rogue alerts at any given time! I knew where every Linksys was in the city. And heaven forbid you had a node near a Wal-Mart or Home Depot. I saw Ruckus' announcement with their controller product and thought now there's another company that is introducing something that really serves no purpose. Anyway- just my two cents about rogue detection Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Just as a FYI. Systems like Ruckus Wireless have built in 'Rouge AP' detection capabilities. Which would allow you to manage such from remote, without the need to do a 'fly by'. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Yes it is. Because a correctly crafted NAT package should replace the MAC address. Of the internal devices with it's own external MAC. The only true way I can see this happening is to have a device that connects to the rouge ap and attempt to generate traffic to specific end point and have the gateway controller look for this traffic to determine what ip/mac this traffic is coming from to detect what client is running the open ap. But now if they. Run a closed ap and share their encryption key or what ever with neighbors there is not a lot that could be done about it. But to find a rouge ap don't need to be that hard if you can associate to it. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:43:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Pretty confident finding the MACs behind a NAT device is impossible. I do remember some discussion on this list (or the Moto one) that suggested a white paper by a company that had created software that can intelligently guess if there was NAT judging by how it created sockets. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:38 PM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Rogue detection mostly a joke. Now before you go all whacky on me- I don't mean that it is a joke to want to know if you have someone who has brought an AP into the office building and inadvertently created a hole in the armor. I just mean that there is very little use for it other than that. When I was the Wireless Subject Matter Expert for Coca-Cola, I would have loved this in our corporate headquarters. I actually tried to buy an IDS but could not fund it. A 25 floor reflective glass and steel office building is generally isolated enough from the outside world that a rogue showing up WOULD likely be on your network. Only place I see any use is in a controlled place like that. And by the way, I shut down many a rogue using Airmagnet Laptop's geiger counter function. The highlight of the day was the shocked look on someone's face when I would barge into their office, unplug the AP and put it and all the wires on their desk all in about 10 seconds! Since then, I have done many outdoor mesh systems and indoor wireless systems using the Cisco Wireless LAN Controller based product. They include rogue AP detection and it is not only a royal pain, it cannot be disabled. Who cares if Joe down on the corner has an AP? Rogue detection wastes time and resources and is truly only accurate/usable in a controlled setting. In a four square mile city, I had 300-400 rogue alerts at any given time! I knew where every Linksys was in the city. And heaven forbid you had a node near a Wal-Mart or Home Depot. I saw Ruckus' announcement with their controller product and thought now there's another company that is introducing something that really serves no purpose. Anyway- just my two cents about rogue detection Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Just as a FYI. Systems like Ruckus Wireless have built in 'Rouge AP' detection capabilities. Which would allow you to manage such from remote, without the need to do a 'fly by'. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new router in, by default, most routers use DHCP for configuration. They get a page that says...Your Router Lost it's Configuration... Here is documentation on how to set it up. In the instructions it walks them through setting up PPPoE and the wireless on their network. We then drive through the edition quarterly to audit and if we find one wide open, we log into the router and set the WPA Key to NETWORK_WIDE_OPEN or I_WAS_HERE. Then when they call we explain that neighbors may possibly be able to get into their computer, they are usually... Really, I didn't know that. If they refuse to lock it down, or we find it multiple times, it violates our Terms of Service and disable their account until they call in and we tell them to stop doing it or we
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Everyone is entitled to their opinions ! Any time there is 'new feature or function introduced by Vendors , there is always a potential of serious disapointment on how it fuctions in reality vs what was expected. Eventually someone comes along and starts to make them work like they are supposed to. While I fully understand the pessimism, You will notice that there are folks on this list who are very familiar with Ruckus Wireless systems will stay quiet and chuckle to themselves. ... You asked a very good question: What is the Controller product needed for ? What a waste ? Well guess what is used for ... (all the things that need to be done, so that the system does not take a hit and keeps performing top notch) ! Regards Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:39 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Rogue detection mostly a joke. Now before you go all whacky on me- I don't mean that it is a joke to want to know if you have someone who has brought an AP into the office building and inadvertently created a hole in the armor. I just mean that there is very little use for it other than that. When I was the Wireless Subject Matter Expert for Coca-Cola, I would have loved this in our corporate headquarters. I actually tried to buy an IDS but could not fund it. A 25 floor reflective glass and steel office building is generally isolated enough from the outside world that a rogue showing up WOULD likely be on your network. Only place I see any use is in a controlled place like that. And by the way, I shut down many a rogue using Airmagnet Laptop's geiger counter function. The highlight of the day was the shocked look on someone's face when I would barge into their office, unplug the AP and put it and all the wires on their desk all in about 10 seconds! Since then, I have done many outdoor mesh systems and indoor wireless systems using the Cisco Wireless LAN Controller based product. They include rogue AP detection and it is not only a royal pain, it cannot be disabled. Who cares if Joe down on the corner has an AP? Rogue detection wastes time and resources and is truly only accurate/usable in a controlled setting. In a four square mile city, I had 300-400 rogue alerts at any given time! I knew where every Linksys was in the city. And heaven forbid you had a node near a Wal-Mart or Home Depot. I saw Ruckus' announcement with their controller product and thought now there's another company that is introducing something that really serves no purpose. Anyway- just my two cents about rogue detection Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:27 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Just as a FYI. Systems like Ruckus Wireless have built in 'Rouge AP' detection capabilities. Which would allow you to manage such from remote, without the need to do a 'fly by'. Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings We deploy in fairly dense housing editions for our wireless service and run across this occasionally. We use PPPoE for logged in routers and DHCP to put them in a Not Configured pool of IP addresses. During an installation, we configure the routers for them, securing their wireless. If someone plugs a new router in, by default, most routers use DHCP for configuration. They get a page that says...Your Router Lost it's Configuration... Here is documentation on how to set it up. In the instructions it walks them through setting up PPPoE and the wireless on their network. We then drive through the edition quarterly to audit and if we find one wide open, we log into the router and set the WPA Key to NETWORK_WIDE_OPEN or I_WAS_HERE. Then when they call we explain that neighbors may possibly be able to get into their computer, they are usually... Really, I didn't know that. If they refuse to lock it down, or we find it multiple times, it violates our Terms of Service and disable their account until they call in and we tell them to stop doing it or we will disconnect their service and that sharing is not permitted. We haven't had very many problems with it. We actually had someone call in because they felt guilty for stealing one of our customer's internet. We got there for a site-survey and found he was pulling off of Comcast, not us. We left it... Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I believe you can also tell by the timestamps in the packets. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I think it was Earthlink that did have a technology by which they could see the different MACs behind a router. I wish I could remember how they said it worked. They did tell me that at the time, they were not worrying about how many computers were behind your NAT. Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Here is another very nice article, with a few links / software tools. http://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/NAT_detection Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:50 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings For the Uber Geeks... http://www.sflow.org/detectNAT/ Faisal Imtiaz -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I believe you can also tell by the timestamps in the packets. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I think it was Earthlink that did have a technology by which they could see the different MACs behind a router. I wish I could remember how they said it worked. They did tell me that at the time, they were not worrying about how many computers were behind your NAT. Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Not seen a single solution that can do that. That is the functionality of NAT to hide what is behind it. I take advantage of it all the time when I'm staying in hotels. Use my own AP that allows my wifi enabled devices access and connect to the hotels system and I'm paying a single fee for the hotel that charges for internet. Only way to fight it in a MTU type environment or even with residential is educate the users and strike some fear into them that if they run open APs they could get in trouble if the others that piggy back on it does illegal things such as copyrighted filesharing, illegal p0rn or simply are virus infected and they this way risk getting infected and have their own computers compromised and become BOT slaves. Plus also let them know that they are paying for specific service speeds and if they let others use it a lot for free then themselves no longer have the speed for themselves and also possible point to the bit cap portion of the user agreement letting them know that their account could possibly be shut down prematurely because someone else is using up all their allow bit count. Some students will not care and there might be two apartment that even share the cost of the service and then you cannot do much about it besides maybe limit per connections etc to choke them out. What we do at one location (granted all pre-wired) is that the landlord is paying a small fee each month but then we provide free internet to the tenants just fast enough to work for a individual doing normal web browsing but then we also provide upgrade service on a for pay basis. The people that pay tend to be greedy and want it all to themselves ;) /Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
[WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Sounds like standard hotspot functionality. Lots of ways to do that. For homegrown backend check out Mikrotik. Jeff Yette wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.62/2315 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I know a provider in Florida that covers a bunch of Condos that uses Meraki's inside all the units to get good signals everywhere. I've never used them personally though. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Sounds like standard hotspot functionality. Lots of ways to do that. For homegrown backend check out Mikrotik. Jeff Yette wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.62/2315 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
We are using Radius Manager 3 (http://www.radius-manager.com/?gclid=CNqwrZL8spwCFSMeDQodd2XJnQ). It's not the best, but it is the best we found for the price. Martha Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol Hill Community Join us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/64096486706?ref=tsor follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/dcaccess /* Jeff Yette wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Ruckus works great for this. Hit me offlist if you want more information. Honestly though... as a CLEC... shouldn't you be looking at VDSL instead of wireless? The Moto/TuT systems stuff isn't that bad price wise. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:17 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I think the Broadband Over Powerline is the best idea here given all the concentrated stray RF you'll be dealing with. In the long run, you'll have a lot less service calls too, I can bet. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I've seen equipment that will go through the meters as well as transformers. I cant remember the manufacturer but they're out there. But at what price. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I had to stop and think, doesnt BPL already pass through the meter? I think it's the transformer that give it the problem, the meter is just a pass-through, not much resistance whatsoever. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
That's why Ruckus blows away anything else. Beamforming on a packet by packet basis. Put the noise in the nulls :-D Easy to do with 4000+ antenna patterns in one AP. Price wise... the G units are $300ish... so compared to any other commercial grade wi-fi solution (by that I mean controller based... which I think would be a must... easy to manage if you have hundreds of AP's)... Ruckus comes out on top in my book (but admittedly I am blinded by the cool geek factor :-D Also, Flexmaster allows you to manage multiple controllers... so you could literally manage everything from one place. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:00 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Meter not the issue. Transformers are. You need one AP per phase (pair of power wires). It should go past the meter since the power companies are trying to go pole to inside. Direction through meter won't matter. Jeff Yette wrote: The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.62/2315 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Which also means you're going to have to compete with Wi-Fi that the cable customers will install. If you go wireless... Ruckus will help with that problem. Also you can authenticate with LDAP, not just Radius or Active Directory Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Besides the Meter issue... its also a shared stream. So you get 10Mb across the whole building to share with all of your customers. That might be an issue, might not be. I thought BPL was dead ;-D I'd personally still vote for VDSL though Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Scan the building to see the noise then you can see if wireless is viable. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Nah, the Smart meter gives them incentive. They can save a buck by not having meter readers anymore and still gain a new revenue stream. I looked at the BPL map for Ohio, we used to only have a small test spot in Cinci but it's in all sections of the state now. But with that said, the electric companies are used to being a public regulated company. They make money in spite of themselves so their customer service for any internet service they may provide, I'm sure, will be as heavy handed and emotionless as the electric service. Shared stream is okay, isnt that what we do? As long as he has some sort of traffic shaping he'll be cool. But 10mb is a bit on the low side, I must say. Dude, you're a CLEC! Where's all your cheap fiber for this thing??? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Besides the Meter issue... its also a shared stream. So you get 10Mb across the whole building to share with all of your customers. That might be an issue, might not be. I thought BPL was dead ;-D I'd personally still vote for VDSL though Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
BPL is not a good solution. Issues with corroded splices, line noise, and generally limited distance is part of why moto discontinued it. Wireless would be my last choice for so many reasons, mostly due to interference but there are other issues such as reliabilty, consistency, hidden node, bandwidh hogs, etc. IMO vdsl from moto or netsys is the highest reliabilty, highest bandwidth (up to 70mbps) solution. Drop it in, cross connect and drop the modem in their apartment at their prefered phone jack and get out. I have not had one vdsl modem or switch fail in over 4 years. I don't even think about them, they just work. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Yep, then drop a MT in front of the DSLAM and bingo you have a DSL hotspot :) --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings BPL is not a good solution. Issues with corroded splices, line noise, and generally limited distance is part of why moto discontinued it. Wireless would be my last choice for so many reasons, mostly due to interference but there are other issues such as reliabilty, consistency, hidden node, bandwidh hogs, etc. IMO vdsl from moto or netsys is the highest reliabilty, highest bandwidth (up to 70mbps) solution. Drop it in, cross connect and drop the modem in their apartment at their prefered phone jack and get out. I have not had one vdsl modem or switch fail in over 4 years. I don't even think about them, they just work. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
exactly Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:15 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Yep, then drop a MT in front of the DSLAM and bingo you have a DSL hotspot :) --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings BPL is not a good solution. Issues with corroded splices, line noise, and generally limited distance is part of why moto discontinued it. Wireless would be my last choice for so many reasons, mostly due to interference but there are other issues such as reliabilty, consistency, hidden node, bandwidh hogs, etc. IMO vdsl from moto or netsys is the highest reliabilty, highest bandwidth (up to 70mbps) solution. Drop it in, cross connect and drop the modem in their apartment at their prefered phone jack and get out. I have not had one vdsl modem or switch fail in over 4 years. I don't even think about them, they just work. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
We did recently do a 4400 unit hotel complex. Both outdoor APs aiming at the buildings along with a DSLAM system with APs attached to finish up the coverage areas.Average around 1000-1500 active users at once. Sometimes more up to 2k when they had a convention. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings exactly Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:15 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Yep, then drop a MT in front of the DSLAM and bingo you have a DSL hotspot :) --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings BPL is not a good solution. Issues with corroded splices, line noise, and generally limited distance is part of why moto discontinued it. Wireless would be my last choice for so many reasons, mostly due to interference but there are other issues such as reliabilty, consistency, hidden node, bandwidh hogs, etc. IMO vdsl from moto or netsys is the highest reliabilty, highest bandwidth (up to 70mbps) solution. Drop it in, cross connect and drop the modem in their apartment at their prefered phone jack and get out. I have not had one vdsl modem or switch fail in over 4 years. I don't even think about them, they just work. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Those DSLAMs work good; we have a couple. ADSL2 works great over the distances found on private properties. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 04:32:32PM -0400, Jeff Yette wrote: The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Jeff, Are there any wires to each room? Like copper phone lines for xDSL? Do you have to pay for these wires? Obviously cat5 lines to each room is not going to get you a reasonable ROI. Wireless should be an option - several devices have been suggested. If you can simply get them to bridge and need a portal you can buy WISP router's platform. I believe you buy it and install it on your own hardware. http://store.wisp-router.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=Gatespoteq=Tp= Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: Those DSLAMs work good; we have a couple. ADSL2 works great over the distances found on private properties. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 04:32:32PM -0400, Jeff Yette wrote: The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Mikrotik Hotspot does NOT have the capability of catching people behind NAT. Example: Joe buys a WRT54g. WRT54g bridges to the paid wireless network. Joe buys and account via laptop plugged into WRT54g. Joe plus in an AP behind the router and broadcasts ESSID Free Internet. People mooch. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Mikrotik Hotspot between them and the internet Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Joe Laura joela...@superior1.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I had a nightmare trying to do apartment complexes. I thought I touched on a goldmine when all the signups started comming in. Then as tennants started firing up their own A/P's others would connect to them and cancel service. How are youll dealing with this? Joe Laura WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
And MT has a RADIUS server piece that does authentication and is free. User Manager. But it is nasty to get going. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
