Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
... How do you feel your product, will or could fit into an existing WISP's operation? And what processes/features could be extended to pre-existing models? Not sure we could extend too many features to pre-existing models but we're trying the next best thing. We've been porting our firmware to different platforms (x86, Atheros SoC, IXP425, ADM5120, RTL8186) so that WISPs can use existing hardware. I'd expect WISPs to deploy Avansu for new installations rather than upgrading existing (where the costs have already been sunk into the network) We're really focussed on cutting deployment and management costs (cheaper hardware and less experienced staff). This mainly makes sense on new deployments. To be more politically correct, this is a question not necessarilly directed specifically to your product, but any product that offers a more narrow specialized management solution (such as HotSpot) to integrate into an exist provider's network of any type. A trend I see is many vendors are providing RMS systems for their radio firmware platforms. (I'll spare you the list, but atleast 10 I could name off teh top of my head). However, most are jsut compatible with their own product, which takes away a large part of the value proposition for many WISPs. I personally, see 2009 and 2010 being about increasing BOSS's compatibilty to encompass a much larger models and products. The analogy I like to use is looking at a company like at Comcast or a Verizon. Would they give their support staff 5 different OSS platforms to manage all the peices of their network? WISPS are growing, and there is a dream for one platform that does it all, and it will be even more importnat as teh roll ups occur. Or will it be a technical impossibilty? The main difficulty with integrating B/OSS systems with existing firmware is that you're only able to offer a subset of the features you could offer with your own firmware. We have toyed with adding hooks for Radius and SNMP so that existing devices can be used with our B/OSS, the only problem is that customers could end up with less features than the one they are replacing. Something as simple as a remote reboot can be a nightmare to implement for example. Of course it is possible to have the B/OSS interact with deployed units remotely via the web interface or telnet/ssh but that's not a simple solution to implement and would require a lot of maintenance. The only way to integrate different B/OSS systems and devices would be to implement some standards based translation layer between the device and the B/OSS. I'm not aware of any proposed implementations for this. Vendors of course, also have little interest in allowing customers to use different a B/OSS. Integration will only likely come when one B/OSS system becomes somewhat of a standard (open source?) and many hardware vendors choose to support it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tim Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system While you guys are on the topic could I also ask you to look at our offering? We've been selling hot spot systems for the hospitality industry since 2004 but over the past year have started putting together a package for WISPs. We've branded the WISP solution Avansu (http://www.avansu.com). Avansu is a B/OSS provided entirely as a service (via the browser), no software to install. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. Avansu offers the following: - Billing (subscriptions, credit card payments, scratch cards etc) - Remote management, configuration and reboot of APs and CPEs - Monitoring and alerting via SMS and email (with automated failover if available) - Fully customizable login pages for CPEs and APs (including own domain) - Fully customizable credit card billing and subscription pages (including own domain) - Reports on usage and revenue for single nodes, groups of nodes or the whole system The main advantage of Avansu is that APs and CPEs work the same no matter what hardware (vendor) is used. Once the Avansu firmware is installed nodes can be deployed by simply copying configuration parameters from one unit to another via the server. We're still in beta for WISPs, we'll be launching fully in January 2009. Until launch we're offering free accounts so let me know off list if you'd like to try our system. Sorry for the self promotion but you guys were discussing the topic, I couldn't help myself ;-) Tim Barker Fire4 Systems (UK) Ltd. Round Foundry Media Centre, Foundry Street, Leeds, LS11 5QP, UK Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UK Tel: +44 (0)7976 122 191 US Tel
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Tim Barker wrote: I've not run a WISP myself but I bet it's not cost effective to do this using Mikrotik or Canopy. Using a plug-and-play Atheros based device with a web based B/OSS brings the cost right down. What? You are OBVIOUSLY not understanding how to operate a professional system if you thing Mikrotik or Canopy isn't cost effective. You system may bring down cost, but there are MANY things that an end user trades in to use such a system. * You give up flexibility to use your approach. While it is easy to deploy, generally, you don't have anywhere NEAR the options for HOW you deploy as you do with ANY other approach. * You give up reliability. Because engineering choices are limited, you are stuck with whatever the B/OSS provides, which is usually designed for children and NOT network administrators. * You are locked into a proprietary platform. Once someone begins building a fixed wireless network with your system, they are locked into it because their billing system requires YOUR hardware. While this is true to a degree with devices like Canopy and others, the difference is that YOUR platform is a billing system, too. Nobody wants to change their billing platform just so that they can use a different AP. I could go on but it's not really appropriate here. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Hi Butch, Thanks for the feedback. I won't argue the points below as I did state what our target market was. Please keep in mind that the paragraph you quote below was referring to the line above it, which you did not include: All of our customers so far have installed systems for less than 100 subscribers. I've not run a WISP myself but I bet it's not cost effective to do this using Mikrotik or Canopy. My background is actually as an engineer for a mobile (cellphone) network operator in the UK so I do understand how to operate a professional system for way more subscribers than any WISP I've come across. What we're doing with Avansu is looking at scale. If you can bill thousands of subscribers a month you'd want to go with Canopy. If however, you want to offer a service to 30 or 50 homes, single site, it is cost effective? Tim On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Tim Barker wrote: I've not run a WISP myself but I bet it's not cost effective to do this using Mikrotik or Canopy. Using a plug-and-play Atheros based device with a web based B/OSS brings the cost right down. What? You are OBVIOUSLY not understanding how to operate a professional system if you thing Mikrotik or Canopy isn't cost effective. You system may bring down cost, but there are MANY things that an end user trades in to use such a system. * You give up flexibility to use your approach. While it is easy to deploy, generally, you don't have anywhere NEAR the options for HOW you deploy as you do with ANY other approach. * You give up reliability. Because engineering choices are limited, you are stuck with whatever the B/OSS provides, which is usually designed for children and NOT network administrators. * You are locked into a proprietary platform. Once someone begins building a fixed wireless network with your system, they are locked into it because their billing system requires YOUR hardware. While this is true to a degree with devices like Canopy and others, the difference is that YOUR platform is a billing system, too. Nobody wants to change their billing platform just so that they can use a different AP. I could go on but it's not really appropriate here. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Tim Barker wrote: What we're doing with Avansu is looking at scale. If you can bill thousands of subscribers a month you'd want to go with Canopy. If however, you want to offer a service to 30 or 50 homes, single site, it is cost effective? I suppose it would depend mostly on what you are calling cost effective. I have currently about 92 hotspots deployed in various hotels, rv parks and other businesses. These hotspots (some are mine and some are partner locations) are all run with a backend that cost me just over $1k to set up. That's a one time fee. It is maintenance free and runs on a server that isn't even physically within my reach. Was that cost effective in the way you mean? FWIW, this system generates an average income for me that makes it very cost effective. As to the hardware? I can install Mikrotik if I want and extend the system with any gear I want (such as low cost NS2 devices) if I choose to do that. And yes, if I wanted to offer service to 30-50 homes, the hardware is NOT the part that makes it expensive. Mikrotik (if that's what I wanted to use) would cost about $250 to install. Even less depending on how I got it to an internet access location. If I went with a Canopy system, the cost is higher, but there are other benefits to Canopy that many people don't consider simply due to the cost. Either way, I have a fairly low cost system that will allow me to connect (easily) as many as 50 homes. I don't know about your gear specifically, so don't assume I'm talking about your gear. It is not uncommon to see the lower cost gear (specifically gear like Linksys, Netgear and such) needing to be rebooted all the time. It is typically not rated for the outdoor environment where it often needs to be installed, so temperature is a problem. Mikrotik and Canopy hardware is built for outdoor deployment and this problem evaporates. One other issue that comes to mind is signal quality. Again, I have not looked at your equipment, but the radio cards I like to use with Mikrotik are very high quality cards that generate a clean signal and have very good rx sensitivity. As for a billing platform, there are LOTS of choices out there. Some of them are better than others and some are easier to manage than others, but these do not require a specific hardware platform in order to manage the network. I don't know that your system is good or bad, but I do think it is a pretty poor practice to attempt to boost your product by knocking another as not fit for a purpose for which it was designed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Tim, Now that you have made your shameless self promotion sales pitch :-) I thought I'd scrutinize your comments, palying devils advocate :-) I have not looked at your BOSS software or Firmwre, so I am asking blind at this point. But I am interested in your perspective, since you are interested in WISP markets. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. The above was the key comment that got my attention, and how that would reflect the reality of what could be a viable target market.. Is it really realistic to use a BOSS provider's Firmware on APs and CPEs? Come on WISPs have graduated basic Wifi APs and CPEs. It has taken almost a decade for the Firmware leaders of today to develop feature rich products that WISPs can actually count on working well enough for commercial deployment. (examples... Mikrotik, StarOS, Ligowave, etc). Why would a WISP risk a tried and true solution to convert to something new, just for integration into a BOSS system? Could they risk that? Thats like going to a CLEC provider and saying... We have this new BOSS system, would you mind just throwing away all your CISCOs.. Generally what WISPs would want more is a BOSS system that could integrate will all their pre-eixsting diverse product lines. As a WISP, we all know there are a lot of tools in the toolbox, and there is the right tool for each type of job. Even the WISPs most religious to staying true to one brand have branched out to use many different product lines, because technical reasons and differences in their technology forced them to, if they wanted to stay competitive. I would find it more viable to have a agent application that could be integrated into pre-existing OS, to add compatibility. (although that could also be a huge task technically, and politically also) When a BOSS requires its own Firmware for devices, it usually means that the WISPs will now need two BOSS systems. One for their new proprietary system, and one for all their other stuff. That means duplication of ALL costs. Labor, hardware, CC processing, learning curve, documentation, etc, etc. So teh service subscribption could no longer be justified as a time saver, as it would be yet another application added to the list to manage. Also note a platform change is not jsut a technology change, it is also a process change. Do not misunderstand me, I am NOT Bashing your product. I'm just sharing the first thoughts that came to my mind, when I don't yet understand your product, and it would potentually be a thought likely to cross other WISP's minds. How do you feel your product, will or could fit into an existing WISP's operation? And what processes/features could be extended to pre-existing models? To be more politically correct, this is a question not necessarilly directed specifically to your product, but any product that offers a more narrow specialized management solution (such as HotSpot) to integrate into an exist provider's network of any type. A trend I see is many vendors are providing RMS systems for their radio firmware platforms. (I'll spare you the list, but atleast 10 I could name off teh top of my head). However, most are jsut compatible with their own product, which takes away a large part of the value proposition for many WISPs. I personally, see 2009 and 2010 being about increasing BOSS's compatibilty to encompass a much larger models and products. The analogy I like to use is looking at a company like at Comcast or a Verizon. Would they give their support staff 5 different OSS platforms to manage all the peices of their network? WISPS are growing, and there is a dream for one platform that does it all, and it will be even more importnat as teh roll ups occur. Or will it be a technical impossibilty? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tim Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system While you guys are on the topic could I also ask you to look at our offering? We've been selling hot spot systems for the hospitality industry since 2004 but over the past year have started putting together a package for WISPs. We've branded the WISP solution Avansu (http://www.avansu.com). Avansu is a B/OSS provided entirely as a service (via the browser), no software to install. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. Avansu offers the following: - Billing (subscriptions, credit card payments, scratch cards etc) - Remote management
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
that does it all, and it will be even more importnat as teh roll ups occur. Or will it be a technical impossibilty? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tim Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system While you guys are on the topic could I also ask you to look at our offering? We've been selling hot spot systems for the hospitality industry since 2004 but over the past year have started putting together a package for WISPs. We've branded the WISP solution Avansu (http://www.avansu.com). Avansu is a B/OSS provided entirely as a service (via the browser), no software to install. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. Avansu offers the following: - Billing (subscriptions, credit card payments, scratch cards etc) - Remote management, configuration and reboot of APs and CPEs - Monitoring and alerting via SMS and email (with automated failover if available) - Fully customizable login pages for CPEs and APs (including own domain) - Fully customizable credit card billing and subscription pages (including own domain) - Reports on usage and revenue for single nodes, groups of nodes or the whole system The main advantage of Avansu is that APs and CPEs work the same no matter what hardware (vendor) is used. Once the Avansu firmware is installed nodes can be deployed by simply copying configuration parameters from one unit to another via the server. We're still in beta for WISPs, we'll be launching fully in January 2009. Until launch we're offering free accounts so let me know off list if you'd like to try our system. Sorry for the self promotion but you guys were discussing the topic, I couldn't help myself ;-) Tim Barker Fire4 Systems (UK) Ltd. Round Foundry Media Centre, Foundry Street, Leeds, LS11 5QP, UK Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UK Tel: +44 (0)7976 122 191 US Tel: +1 305-914-0364 http://www.fire4.comhttp://www.avansu.comhttp://www.wispzone.com On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Will it be able to do a topographic view like delorme does as well for new customers? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Here is a screenshot of my company's RF mapping integration with Powercode. Brian Webster (www.wirelessmapping.com) provides the mapping service and we have overlaid his map into the GoogleMaps interface that's already built into Powercode (www.powercode.com), complete with all types of customers and infrastructure. Here's a cool feature, you can click on any of the pins and it pulls up that customer's contact information, which is all hyperlinked directly to your version of Powercode. On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Tim, Now that you have made your shameless self promotion sales pitch :-) I thought I'd scrutinize your comments, palying devils advocate :-) I have not looked at your BOSS software or Firmwre, so I am asking blind at this point. But I am interested in your perspective, since you are interested in WISP markets. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. The above was the key comment that got my attention, and how that would reflect the reality of what could be a viable target market.. Is it really realistic to use a BOSS provider's Firmware on APs and CPEs? Come on WISPs have graduated basic Wifi APs and CPEs. It has taken almost a decade for the Firmware leaders of today to develop feature rich products that WISPs can actually count on working well enough for commercial deployment. (examples... Mikrotik, StarOS, Ligowave, etc). Why would a WISP risk a tried and true solution to convert to something new, just for integration into a BOSS system? Could they risk that? Thats like going to a CLEC provider and saying... We have this new BOSS system, would you mind just throwing away all your CISCOs.. Generally what WISPs would want more is a BOSS system that could integrate will all their pre-eixsting diverse product lines. As a WISP, we all know there are a lot of tools in the toolbox, and there is the right tool for each type of job. Even the WISPs most religious to staying true to one brand have branched out to use many different product lines, because technical reasons and differences in their technology forced them to, if they wanted to stay competitive. I would find it more viable to have a agent application that could be integrated into pre-existing OS, to add compatibility. (although that could also be a huge task technically, and politically also) When a BOSS requires its own Firmware for devices, it usually means that the WISPs will now need two BOSS systems. One for their new proprietary system, and one for all their other stuff. That means duplication of ALL costs. Labor, hardware, CC processing, learning curve, documentation, etc, etc. So teh service subscribption could no longer be justified as a time saver, as it would be yet another application added to the list to manage. Also note a platform change is not jsut a technology change, it is also a process change. Do not misunderstand me, I am NOT Bashing your product. I'm just sharing the first thoughts that came to my mind, when I don't yet understand your product, and it would potentually be a thought likely to cross other WISP's minds. How do you feel your product, will or could fit into an existing WISP's operation? And what processes/features could be extended to pre-existing models? To be more politically correct, this is a question not necessarilly directed specifically to your product, but any product that offers a more narrow specialized management solution (such as HotSpot) to integrate into an exist provider's network of any type. A trend I see is many vendors are providing RMS systems for their radio firmware platforms. (I'll spare you the list, but atleast 10 I could name off teh top of my head). However, most are jsut compatible with their own product, which takes away a large part of the value proposition for many WISPs. I personally, see 2009 and 2010 being about increasing BOSS's compatibilty to encompass a much larger models and products. The analogy I like to use is looking at a company like at Comcast or a Verizon. Would they give their support staff 5 different OSS platforms to manage all the peices of their network? WISPS are growing, and there is a dream for one platform that does it all, and it will be even more importnat as teh roll ups occur. Or will it be a technical impossibilty? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
I debated on whether to put this out there but since Tim did what the heck :) Demarc has been working on something like this for the past few months and will soon have a demo site up for people to take a look at our offer. But to give you the basis: - Our solutions will have about 95% of what both PowerCode and Avansu are offering out of the box and 100% soon after. - We already have our AP and CPE code ported to IXP425 and Atheros SoC boards and plan on supporting what WISP use in the market place. - Once the product is announced we are going to be adding feature support based on customer feedback in a major way, as long as we get a good amount of feedback about a feature its going in :) - We will be adding support for all the major AP software like Star-OS and MT via what every interface they allow so WISP do not need to change our any existing hardware. - Because we will control all the software and firmware we will be adding many special features that one could only do with this type of control, more on this later :) - We will have many models to work with any WISP setup, from the basic where we host the system on our double redundant servers to an onsite install of the code. - Now for the fun part this will be a no cost system for all Demarc hardware customers! Yes its 100% free ;) Any hardware that is not Demarc will have licensing, which is yet to be setup, but to be sure it will be very reasonable. With this all said, I am looking for any feedback from WISPA and their members on what they are looking for. Also so you all understand this project was started with Whitespace solutions in mind and what it's going to need to develop a product line, no more can end WISP create a design and use it like they did with 2.4Ghz. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Tim, Now that you have made your shameless self promotion sales pitch :-) I thought I'd scrutinize your comments, palying devils advocate :-) I have not looked at your BOSS software or Firmwre, so I am asking blind at this point. But I am interested in your perspective, since you are interested in WISP markets. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. The above was the key comment that got my attention, and how that would reflect the reality of what could be a viable target market.. Is it really realistic to use a BOSS provider's Firmware on APs and CPEs? Come on WISPs have graduated basic Wifi APs and CPEs. It has taken almost a decade for the Firmware leaders of today to develop feature rich products that WISPs can actually count on working well enough for commercial deployment. (examples... Mikrotik, StarOS, Ligowave, etc). Why would a WISP risk a tried and true solution to convert to something new, just for integration into a BOSS system? Could they risk that? Thats like going to a CLEC provider and saying... We have this new BOSS system, would you mind just throwing away all your CISCOs.. Generally what WISPs would want more is a BOSS system that could integrate will all their pre-eixsting diverse product lines. As a WISP, we all know there are a lot of tools in the toolbox, and there is the right tool for each type of job. Even the WISPs most religious to staying true to one brand have branched out to use many different product lines, because technical reasons and differences in their technology forced them to, if they wanted to stay competitive. I would find it more viable to have a agent application that could be integrated into pre-existing OS, to add compatibility. (although that could also be a huge task technically, and politically also) When a BOSS requires its own Firmware for devices, it usually means that the WISPs will now need two BOSS systems. One for their new proprietary system, and one for all their other stuff. That means duplication of ALL costs. Labor, hardware, CC processing, learning curve, documentation, etc, etc. So teh service subscribption could no longer be justified as a time saver, as it would be yet another application added to the list to manage. Also note a platform change is not jsut a technology change, it is also a process change. Do not misunderstand me, I am NOT Bashing your product. I'm just sharing the first thoughts that came to my mind, when I don't yet understand your product, and it would potentually be a thought likely to cross other WISP's minds. How do you feel your product, will or could fit into an existing WISP's
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Sounds like a great idea and useful product. Will be interesting to see what you come up with. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system I debated on whether to put this out there but since Tim did what the heck :) Demarc has been working on something like this for the past few months and will soon have a demo site up for people to take a look at our offer. But to give you the basis: - Our solutions will have about 95% of what both PowerCode and Avansu are offering out of the box and 100% soon after. - We already have our AP and CPE code ported to IXP425 and Atheros SoC boards and plan on supporting what WISP use in the market place. - Once the product is announced we are going to be adding feature support based on customer feedback in a major way, as long as we get a good amount of feedback about a feature its going in :) - We will be adding support for all the major AP software like Star-OS and MT via what every interface they allow so WISP do not need to change our any existing hardware. - Because we will control all the software and firmware we will be adding many special features that one could only do with this type of control, more on this later :) - We will have many models to work with any WISP setup, from the basic where we host the system on our double redundant servers to an onsite install of the code. - Now for the fun part this will be a no cost system for all Demarc hardware customers! Yes its 100% free ;) Any hardware that is not Demarc will have licensing, which is yet to be setup, but to be sure it will be very reasonable. With this all said, I am looking for any feedback from WISPA and their members on what they are looking for. Also so you all understand this project was started with Whitespace solutions in mind and what it's going to need to develop a product line, no more can end WISP create a design and use it like they did with 2.4Ghz. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Tim, Now that you have made your shameless self promotion sales pitch :-) I thought I'd scrutinize your comments, palying devils advocate :-) I have not looked at your BOSS software or Firmwre, so I am asking blind at this point. But I am interested in your perspective, since you are interested in WISP markets. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. The above was the key comment that got my attention, and how that would reflect the reality of what could be a viable target market.. Is it really realistic to use a BOSS provider's Firmware on APs and CPEs? Come on WISPs have graduated basic Wifi APs and CPEs. It has taken almost a decade for the Firmware leaders of today to develop feature rich products that WISPs can actually count on working well enough for commercial deployment. (examples... Mikrotik, StarOS, Ligowave, etc). Why would a WISP risk a tried and true solution to convert to something new, just for integration into a BOSS system? Could they risk that? Thats like going to a CLEC provider and saying... We have this new BOSS system, would you mind just throwing away all your CISCOs.. Generally what WISPs would want more is a BOSS system that could integrate will all their pre-eixsting diverse product lines. As a WISP, we all know there are a lot of tools in the toolbox, and there is the right tool for each type of job. Even the WISPs most religious to staying true to one brand have branched out to use many different product lines, because technical reasons and differences in their technology forced them to, if they wanted to stay competitive. I would find it more viable to have a agent application that could be integrated into pre-existing OS, to add compatibility. (although that could also be a huge task technically, and politically also) When a BOSS requires its own Firmware for devices, it usually means that the WISPs will now need two BOSS systems. One for their new proprietary system, and one for all their other stuff. That means duplication of ALL costs. Labor, hardware, CC processing, learning curve, documentation, etc, etc. So teh service subscribption could no longer be justified as a time saver, as it would be yet another
[WISPA] Billing and process management system
Hello I need a new billing / CRM solution. What are all of you using at this time and is it going to scale with you? I dont mind if it is not all under one program. If I have to pay someone to customize something I don't care I just need something that works. WILL PAY FOR IT. Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. Credit Card processing. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring I apologize for the cross post, Anthony Will Broadband Corp http://www.broadband-mn.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Anthony Will wrote: Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. Credit Card processing. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring Sounds like you're describing Powercode. It reads like an advertisement for them anyway. I'll send you an email offlist with some questions and details. I apologize for the cross post, It's ok..I didn't cross post the answer. :-) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Anthony Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:04 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Hello I need a new billing / CRM solution. What are all of you using at this time and is it going to scale with you? I dont mind if it is not all under one program. If I have to pay someone to customize something I don't care I just need something that works. WILL PAY FOR IT. Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. Credit Card processing. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring I apologize for the cross post, Anthony Will Broadband Corp http://www.broadband-mn.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
We have been using Plat for years and I used it at a company I worked at waay back for years (starting in '98). I like Plat, but we are considering an alternative for a few reasons. MSSQL support only Client is Windows only Provisioning is fired off from the client, not a backend script Complicated to customize With that said, Plat is also very flexible which is probably why it is complicated. I am not a SQL guy so I'm sure somebody with more knowledge of SQL would disagree? Maybe my 2 cents is helpful. Dylan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Platypus Been using it for years, does everything. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date: 12/3/2008 9:34 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Platypus Been using it for years, does everything. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
And in the very near future PowerCode will also be able to integrate coverage mapping should you decide to do so. John and I have it working but it just needs a few things cleaned up to make it ready for prime time. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Anthony Will wrote: Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. Credit Card processing. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring Sounds like you're describing Powercode. It reads like an advertisement for them anyway. I'll send you an email offlist with some questions and details. I apologize for the cross post, It's ok..I didn't cross post the answer. :-) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
I can't say that I really care about my top posting, I actually prefer top posting because I don't have to hunt for information... unless it is addressing many points, which you did, I did not. The entire email fits on my screen, so I saw it all. ;-) Here is my end of the bickering over trivial things. Freeside can do the ticketing through RT integration and you can use ticketing (albeit not gracefully) to track leads to installs. It cannot do the scheduling to the best of my ability. He also said it doesn't have to be one application, therefore I provided what I knew handled most of the requirements quite well. I guess to further add to my previous post, Mikrotik's The Dude is a great network monitor. Maybe it does, but I wish it had the ability to be integrated with. Sure the open source ones do, but they're a PITA to setup. Others have had great success with PowerCode, but my experience is not. When I was talking with them, they basically told me to purchase their BMU or their software won't really do anything for me. Yes, this was a long time ago in Internet time. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering* * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member* * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Others have had great success with PowerCode, but my experience is not. When I was talking with them, they basically told me to purchase their BMU or their software won't really do anything for me. Yes, this was a long time ago in Internet time. PowerCode without a BMU is just a billing and ticketing platform. It still works but it really doesn't unleash the fury that is PowerCode without a BMU. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I can't say that I really care about my top posting, I actually prefer top posting because I don't have to hunt for information... unless it is addressing many points, which you did, I did not. The entire email fits on my screen, so I saw it all. ;-) Here is my end of the bickering over trivial things. Freeside can do the ticketing through RT integration and you can use ticketing (albeit not gracefully) to track leads to installs. It cannot do the scheduling to the best of my ability. He also said it doesn't have to be one application, therefore I provided what I knew handled most of the requirements quite well. I guess to further add to my previous post, Mikrotik's The Dude is a great network monitor. Maybe it does, but I wish it had the ability to be integrated with. Sure the open source ones do, but they're a PITA to setup. Others have had great success with PowerCode, but my experience is not. When I was talking with them, they basically told me to purchase their BMU or their software won't really do anything for me. Yes, this was a long time ago in Internet time. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering* * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member* * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Advantage or Disadvantage? Actually Powercode integrates with Imagestream routers. Personally, I think the PowerCode/Imagestream platform was probably the best value proposition on the market for a solution to manage WISPs that was commercially available and complete. Something someone should definately look into, if they are starting new, and not locked into a platform yet. However, I personally, chose against it, for the same reason. I was already locked into a methodology, and the value wasn't there for me, if I unnecesssarilly had to start replacing routers to get full advantage of the software. But I'd argue Logisense (engage IP) also had the same flaw. The equipment/provisioning/BW management features were only integrated/compatible with their proprietary BW management hardware router device. After I bought it, I never ended up using it. (But it was my first choice at the time for many reasons) Both these platforms still offer significant value even if you don't use the router integration features, and it solves many problems for WISPs. But ultimately it means jumping into a platform that leads to never having a complete solution as an end game, if you don;t embrace their hardware vendor. As a result, I chose to just stay with Quickbooks, and create in-house, and not address it until I absolutely had to. I'll admit, I'm not sure that I made the right choice. WISPA also has a another vendor member, IntraMeta, that has a nice operations management system, but they did not have teh billing components integrated yet, which I feel are the most important. But I know they are working on the billing pieces. What ever happened to OptiGold? 5 years ago, when we were debating the accounting topic on ISP-LISTs, the winner was OptiGold. WISPs loved it. I wonder how many of those WISPs are still using it, and still loving it? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system I can't say that I really care about my top posting, I actually prefer top posting because I don't have to hunt for information... unless it is addressing many points, which you did, I did not. The entire email fits on my screen, so I saw it all. ;-) Here is my end of the bickering over trivial things. Freeside can do the ticketing through RT integration and you can use ticketing (albeit not gracefully) to track leads to installs. It cannot do the scheduling to the best of my ability. He also said it doesn't have to be one application, therefore I provided what I knew handled most of the requirements quite well. I guess to further add to my previous post, Mikrotik's The Dude is a great network monitor. Maybe it does, but I wish it had the ability to be integrated with. Sure the open source ones do, but they're a PITA to setup. Others have had great success with PowerCode, but my experience is not. When I was talking with them, they basically told me to purchase their BMU or their software won't really do anything for me. Yes, this was a long time ago in Internet time. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Thats an unfair statement. Yes, I agree, without a BMU, it does not unlease the power of Powercode. However, Powercode without a BMU, is still much more than a billing/ticketing system. I'm not a PowerCode expert, so I am in no way the right person to defend the product, or report its features. But I saw other features of value... For example Asset/equipment management. Sales/opportunity management. Its been a year, and don;t remember exactly, but there were significant features. There are hundreds of billing and ticketing systems, but not many of them really address the little details specific to WISPs. PowerCode does so better. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Others have had great success with PowerCode, but my experience is not. When I was talking with them, they basically told me to purchase their BMU or their software won't really do anything for me. Yes, this was a long time ago in Internet time. PowerCode without a BMU is just a billing and ticketing platform. It still works but it really doesn't unleash the fury that is PowerCode without a BMU. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I can't say that I really care about my top posting, I actually prefer top posting because I don't have to hunt for information... unless it is addressing many points, which you did, I did not. The entire email fits on my screen, so I saw it all. ;-) Here is my end of the bickering over trivial things. Freeside can do the ticketing through RT integration and you can use ticketing (albeit not gracefully) to track leads to installs. It cannot do the scheduling to the best of my ability. He also said it doesn't have to be one application, therefore I provided what I knew handled most of the requirements quite well. I guess to further add to my previous post, Mikrotik's The Dude is a great network monitor. Maybe it does, but I wish it had the ability to be integrated with. Sure the open source ones do, but they're a PITA to setup. Others have had great success with PowerCode, but my experience is not. When I was talking with them, they basically told me to purchase their BMU or their software won't really do anything for me. Yes, this was a long time ago in Internet time. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering* * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member* * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. This is doable in freeside with the integrated ticketing system. We've done things like take leads from the website via a form which loads a ticket up in the ticket system from there it is just a matter of clicking a link to make them a customer. You can also add potential customers to the system without a billing package and they show up as a prospective customer. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring Inventory management can be done in Freeside. Typically we push configuration files to most NMS systems that have hooks. I have exporting info from freeside to cacti and nagios in the past. My biggest issue with NMS built into the billing system is that it is kind of insecure. Your entire network shouldn't be able to reach your billing system. You can obviously add firewalls See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. Inline posting ftw :) Sincerely, Jeremy Davis, CEO Maximum Technologies, LLC Office 318.303.4725 www.maximumtech.us WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
If you don't choose Freeside, I consider Platypus the next best option. Sincerely, Jeremy Davis, CEO Maximum Technologies, LLC Office 318.303.4725 www.maximumtech.us -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:27 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Platypus Been using it for years, does everything. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
While you guys are on the topic could I also ask you to look at our offering? We've been selling hot spot systems for the hospitality industry since 2004 but over the past year have started putting together a package for WISPs. We've branded the WISP solution Avansu (http://www.avansu.com). Avansu is a B/OSS provided entirely as a service (via the browser), no software to install. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. Avansu offers the following: - Billing (subscriptions, credit card payments, scratch cards etc) - Remote management, configuration and reboot of APs and CPEs - Monitoring and alerting via SMS and email (with automated failover if available) - Fully customizable login pages for CPEs and APs (including own domain) - Fully customizable credit card billing and subscription pages (including own domain) - Reports on usage and revenue for single nodes, groups of nodes or the whole system The main advantage of Avansu is that APs and CPEs work the same no matter what hardware (vendor) is used. Once the Avansu firmware is installed nodes can be deployed by simply copying configuration parameters from one unit to another via the server. We're still in beta for WISPs, we'll be launching fully in January 2009. Until launch we're offering free accounts so let me know off list if you'd like to try our system. Sorry for the self promotion but you guys were discussing the topic, I couldn't help myself ;-) Tim Barker Fire4 Systems (UK) Ltd. Round Foundry Media Centre, Foundry Street, Leeds, LS11 5QP, UK Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UK Tel: +44 (0)7976 122 191 US Tel: +1 305-914-0364 http://www.fire4.com http://www.avansu.com http://www.wispzone.com On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
amen We love Plat. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Platypus Been using it for years, does everything. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
PC is much more spendy than Plat. That is one of the reasons we did not go with PC. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system Advantage or Disadvantage? Actually Powercode integrates with Imagestream routers. Personally, I think the PowerCode/Imagestream platform was probably the best value proposition on the market for a solution to manage WISPs that was commercially available and complete. Something someone should definately look into, if they are starting new, and not locked into a platform yet. However, I personally, chose against it, for the same reason. I was already locked into a methodology, and the value wasn't there for me, if I unnecesssarilly had to start replacing routers to get full advantage of the software. But I'd argue Logisense (engage IP) also had the same flaw. The equipment/provisioning/BW management features were only integrated/compatible with their proprietary BW management hardware router device. After I bought it, I never ended up using it. (But it was my first choice at the time for many reasons) Both these platforms still offer significant value even if you don't use the router integration features, and it solves many problems for WISPs. But ultimately it means jumping into a platform that leads to never having a complete solution as an end game, if you don;t embrace their hardware vendor. As a result, I chose to just stay with Quickbooks, and create in-house, and not address it until I absolutely had to. I'll admit, I'm not sure that I made the right choice. WISPA also has a another vendor member, IntraMeta, that has a nice operations management system, but they did not have teh billing components integrated yet, which I feel are the most important. But I know they are working on the billing pieces. What ever happened to OptiGold? 5 years ago, when we were debating the accounting topic on ISP-LISTs, the winner was OptiGold. WISPs loved it. I wonder how many of those WISPs are still using it, and still loving it? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system I can't say that I really care about my top posting, I actually prefer top posting because I don't have to hunt for information... unless it is addressing many points, which you did, I did not. The entire email fits on my screen, so I saw it all. ;-) Here is my end of the bickering over trivial things. Freeside can do the ticketing through RT integration and you can use ticketing (albeit not gracefully) to track leads to installs. It cannot do the scheduling to the best of my ability. He also said it doesn't have to be one application, therefore I provided what I knew handled most of the requirements quite well. I guess to further add to my previous post, Mikrotik's The Dude is a great network monitor. Maybe it does, but I wish it had the ability to be integrated with. Sure the open source ones do, but they're a PITA to setup. Others have had great success with PowerCode, but my experience is not. When I was talking with them, they basically told me to purchase their BMU or their software won't really do anything for me. Yes, this was a long time ago in Internet time. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent
Re: [WISPA] Billing and process management system
I've hear that Powercode is changing owners? Anybody have the skinny on that? We're seeing some really cool things coming from PC and WirelessMapping.com... Check out the link below. The Google map overlay of our coverage gets populated with little google tear drops where we have customers and leads and failed installs, which makes it easy to sign up resellers and affiliates inside PC: http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Google%20Maps2.htm On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Tim Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While you guys are on the topic could I also ask you to look at our offering? We've been selling hot spot systems for the hospitality industry since 2004 but over the past year have started putting together a package for WISPs. We've branded the WISP solution Avansu (http://www.avansu.com). Avansu is a B/OSS provided entirely as a service (via the browser), no software to install. AP and CPE devices will need to use our firmware but once installed can be managed from anywhere. We currently have our firmware ported to half a dozen devices and we're working on adding more ports all the time. Avansu offers the following: - Billing (subscriptions, credit card payments, scratch cards etc) - Remote management, configuration and reboot of APs and CPEs - Monitoring and alerting via SMS and email (with automated failover if available) - Fully customizable login pages for CPEs and APs (including own domain) - Fully customizable credit card billing and subscription pages (including own domain) - Reports on usage and revenue for single nodes, groups of nodes or the whole system The main advantage of Avansu is that APs and CPEs work the same no matter what hardware (vendor) is used. Once the Avansu firmware is installed nodes can be deployed by simply copying configuration parameters from one unit to another via the server. We're still in beta for WISPs, we'll be launching fully in January 2009. Until launch we're offering free accounts so let me know off list if you'd like to try our system. Sorry for the self promotion but you guys were discussing the topic, I couldn't help myself ;-) Tim Barker Fire4 Systems (UK) Ltd. Round Foundry Media Centre, Foundry Street, Leeds, LS11 5QP, UK Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UK Tel: +44 (0)7976 122 191 US Tel: +1 305-914-0364 http://www.fire4.com http://www.avansu.com http://www.wispzone.com On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mike Hammett wrote: While I'm not yet using it, Freeside is quite impressive. I'd like to refer you to Jeremy Davis of maximumtech.us for more information. While I agree that FS is a good application and can do PARTS of what he asked for, it does not do all of it. Jeremy Davis is a good man for FreeSide without question. Perhaps it's the top posting that made is so that you didn't remember all the requirements? See my example in this email... Some things it has to have: A system that integrates with a bandwidth management and auto shutdown for delinquent accounts. FS can do this in the hands of an Expert like Jeremy. Can process a customer form lead to install and handle trouble tickets afterward including installer scheduling. Unless Jeremy has done some extra work with FS, It does not fulfill these CRM requirements. Can actually accurately and consistently send a bill by email to a customer... - major importance. This is what FS does for a living. Credit Card processing. This, too. Decent and totally customizable report generating system. Customer portal. Both of these are doable in FS and both are customizable. Things that would be a bonus Inventory management Network monitoring FS isn't equipped to do either of these. See, Mike? I was able to address each section of the request and anyone who reads it will be easily able to follow the conversation. Also, all irrelevant information has been removed. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
