Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
I have decided that the FCC will get my Form 477 when I get around to it. I'm not dropping everything in a mad scramble to fill out the information. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Dylan Bouterse wrote: > I had the same problem! How can they have some of the error checking > they have, and not accept 0s in fields??? I'm sorry for not mentioning > that when I wrote my email. I was still kind of hot from figuring that > out when I wrote it too. > > Which prison did you say? ;) > > Dylan > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Randy Cosby > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:14 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments) > > ARGH! > > I was late (even by pacific time, I wonder if they wait until Hawaii > time before they make the cutoff?) > > I spent nearly two hours trying to figure out vague errors I was getting > on the final submission. > This Submission could not be accepted. Some of the totals computed from > the detail data do not match reported state totals. For your > convenience, the non-matching cells are detailed below. Please correct > the data and resubmit. > > Terrestrial Fixed Wireless > > Download Information Transfer Rate > Upload Information transfer rate from the end user > 200 - 767.9 kbps > 768 kbps - 1.49 mbps > 1.5 - 2.9 mbps > 3 - 5.9 mbps > 6 - 9.9 mbps > 10 - 24.9 mbps > 25 - 99.9 mbps > >> 100 mbps >> > > > Turns out they don't like ZEROS in any of the fields on the summary > page. Why don't they just SAY that! > > Off to bed. If they throw me in prison for being late, please write > once in a while. > > Randy > > > Dylan Bouterse wrote: > If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes. > http://www.fcc.gov/form477/ > > JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight > to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to > myself on this. > > Dylan > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > What is the due date for that form? > > Cliff Olle wrote: > With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the > filing > in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch > time > and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I > ever > spent. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute > disaster? > > We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. > > sigh > > I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files > > that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of > the > crap out. > > My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! > > g > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> > <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> > To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> > <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ; > "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > agreed > > When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone > right away > that > new what they were talking about > > Easier than Form 477 for us > > Scott > > > - Original Message - > From: "Scott Carullo" > <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> > <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> > To: "WISPA General List" > <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > >You dont need that - just g
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I would tell you to ask the ISP in San Jose about ATT's billing practices, but they are no longer in business. It seems that 1 day they got a bill for some stupid amount of outbound minutes for their *inbound only* T-1's and were given hours to pay or they would be shut off. They weren't able to react quickly enough and ATT pulled the plug. Apparently this has been a common problem as I have heard of others in the same boat. John Chadd Thompson wrote: > Been there done that. > > We were getting double billed for about 8 months because they didn't remove > our billing on some old circuits after they forced us to upgrade from the > old SBC network. We paid it for a few months because our account rep said it > would be fixed and they would credit our account for what we over paid. Well > they didn't get it fixed and we stopped paying it, our account rep assured > us it was nothing to worry about and that it would be taken care of. Well 8 > months later the ATT collections dept was calling me saying they were going > to turn us over to an outside collection agency. A quick call to my account > rep and then one to the IL commerce commission had the problem taken care of > in about 2 weeks. > > Sounds like you have had similar issues with them but you have no idea how > much grief ATT/SBC has caused me over the last 6 yrs we have been in > business. I wish I could get away from them but at this point in time no one > seems to be able to help us out down here. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:49 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Of course, they'll bill you 10 times that and never fix their billing > issues! -RickG > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > > >> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial >> DS3. >> >> 10mb: $4300 >> 20mb: $4788 >> 30mb: $5300 >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I >> won't >> say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. >> >> The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet >> justification. >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -- >> From: "Richey" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >>> /rant on >>> >>> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >>> >> market >> >>> where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might >>> > get > >>> a >>> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >>> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >>> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in >>> the >>> beginning. >>> >>> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will >>> > give > >>> you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar >>> situation >>> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to >>> > allocate > >>> any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything >>> until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >>> >>> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >>> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard >>> > for > >>> the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP >>> > blocks > >>> are non portable. >>> >>> /rant off >>> >>> Richey >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Cliff Olle >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >>> To: 'WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Unfortunately, the requirements are based on what they think a routing slot in the BGP table costs, and they want to keep that manageable. There has been discussion on the ARIN list about reducing the requirement to a /24 for PI space both single and multi homed. The thought being that there are probably a lot of people that have a /20 that only have it because they want PI space and don't want to be locked into their ISP. There is not reason someone couldn't utilize their second T-1, and I am not advocating buying it and not using it. The question becomes, is it worth the money to have a slow connection, or no connection at all. I am not out to start a flame war here. As far as I am concerned, if I am a business and I am buying business class service from you, and paying business class money for that service, I expect you to have redundant upstreams. I do not expect to pay $50 for that service. CovadWireless gets $349 per month for business class 1.5 Meg Internet access, and they have multiple upstreams. I realize that this will be argued until the cows come home, but when you offer business class service with SLA's you can't do it for $50 per month. Jerry over at Aircloud is doing a 2 meg connection for $179 per month, and has been doing right by his clients. John Richey wrote: > Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? I > read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. Even > at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will never really > use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your traffic > rolls over to the T1. > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of John Thomas > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that you > can legitimately run BGP and multi home? > You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe if > necessary. > > I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We have > a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 blocks > apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* include > Internet access, only point to point. > > John > > Richey wrote: > >> /rant on >> >> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market >> where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get >> > a > >> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in >> > the > >> beginning. >> >> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give >> you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar >> > situation > >> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate >> any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything >> until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> >> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for >> the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks >> are non portable. >> >> /rant off >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days >> or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are >> only using 4 class Cs? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Scott Piehn >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >> >> >> Scott >> - Original Message - >> From: "John Thomas" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >>
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Yes, big headaches from AT&T most of my career. If I find anotehr way to make money, I think I'll sell broadband cheaper than they will do until they have no more customers around here! -RickG On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > Been there done that. > > We were getting double billed for about 8 months because they didn't remove > our billing on some old circuits after they forced us to upgrade from the > old SBC network. We paid it for a few months because our account rep said > it > would be fixed and they would credit our account for what we over paid. > Well > they didn't get it fixed and we stopped paying it, our account rep assured > us it was nothing to worry about and that it would be taken care of. Well 8 > months later the ATT collections dept was calling me saying they were going > to turn us over to an outside collection agency. A quick call to my account > rep and then one to the IL commerce commission had the problem taken care > of > in about 2 weeks. > > Sounds like you have had similar issues with them but you have no idea how > much grief ATT/SBC has caused me over the last 6 yrs we have been in > business. I wish I could get away from them but at this point in time no > one > seems to be able to help us out down here. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:49 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Of course, they'll bill you 10 times that and never fix their billing > issues! -RickG > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > > > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > > DS3. > > > > 10mb: $4300 > > 20mb: $4788 > > 30mb: $5300 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I > > won't > > say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. > > > > The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet > > justification. > > > > > > - > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > > > -- > > From: "Richey" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM > > To: "'WISPA General List'" > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > > /rant on > > > > > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a > > market > > > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might > get > > > a > > > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. > For > > > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > > > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home > in > > > the > > > beginning. > > > > > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will > give > > > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar > > > situation > > > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to > allocate > > > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do > anything > > > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > > > > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > > > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard > for > > > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP > blocks > > > are non portable. > > > > > > /rant off > > > > > > Richey > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > > Behalf Of Cliff Olle > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 > > days > > > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the cas
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
AT&T's deal is based on the loops being under 25 miles. There's another price for 25 to 50 miles. I think it's also a 2xT minimum or something like that. I'm almost at capacity on my 4xT circuit. I have been trying to pull a tricky deal with them but so far it's not working. My territory is LEC'd by Frontizens as I mentioned earlier. But my infrastructure reaches to the county line where AT&T has a POP. I was willing to literally buy a piece of vacant property next to it so I could effectively get a zero mile loop on a DS3. No dice, even at zero miles, the loop minimum remains the same. So I'm stuck going to a 5x or 6xT. The break even on a <25 mile frac DS3 is around $2700/mo. Rk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Some are in areas that will never support that much overhead. - Original Message - From: "Richey" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > That's still a pretty hard thing for a small provider to swallow when they > are starting out. > > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:44 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Hi Mike, > > I can't agree more! > > Circuit diversity is really difficult in some remote areas though. Many > times, bringing redundant circuits in via licensed links is the ONLY way > to > get true diversity. > > Regards, > > Jeff > ImageStream > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:35 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > You should engineer your network to take advantage of BGP instead of being > afraid of it. BGP will bring you closer to more parts of the Internet and > will protect you from routing problems on the net. > > oh, and make sure the two lines you get are completely diverse. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:45 PM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > >> Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? >> I >> read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. >> Even at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will >> never really >> use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your >> traffic >> rolls over to the T1. >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of John Thomas >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that >> you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? >> You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe >> if necessary. >> >> I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We >> have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 >> blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* >> include Internet access, only point to point. >> >> John >> >> Richey wrote: >>> /rant on >>> >>> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >>> market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many >>> people might get >> a >>> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >>> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >>> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home >>> in >> the >>> beginning. >>> >>> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will >>> give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a >>> similar >> situation >>> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to >>> allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not >>> do anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg > problem. >>> >>> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >>> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard >>> for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their >>> IP blocks are non portable. >>> >>> /rant off >>> >>> Richey >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of Cliff Olle >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
wow. i can get that for way under 2k... - Original Message - From: "Brad Belton" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Agreed > > I love threads like these touting deals too good to be true. Many times > they are. Three things matter when pricing bandwidth: > > (1) Location > (2) Location > (3) Location > > > I'd gladly pay $5300 for 30MB in many, many parts of the country! > > Best, > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:22 AM > To: rku...@colusanet.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Depends on the loop. My CO is a tandem and there are at least 6 different > carriers there (Qwest, AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Lightcore, and Norlight first > come > > to mind), but I'm still $5k - $7k for a DS3 with a 0 mile loop. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > ------ > From: "Rick Kunze" > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > >> They're close to 1/2 that now. >> >> Rk >> >> On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: >>> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial >>> DS3. >>> >>> 10mb: $4300 >>> 20mb: $4788 >>> 30mb: $5300 >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Wow, that close to Chicago area and you don't get better than that for 0 mile. I do better than that with a 90mile loop over fiber!! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:22 AM To: rku...@colusanet.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Depends on the loop. My CO is a tandem and there are at least 6 different carriers there (Qwest, AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Lightcore, and Norlight first come to mind), but I'm still $5k - $7k for a DS3 with a 0 mile loop. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Rick Kunze" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > They're close to 1/2 that now. > > Rk > > On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: >> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a >> partial DS3. >> >> 10mb: $4300 >> 20mb: $4788 >> 30mb: $5300 >> >> > > > -- > -- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -- > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
There's not much that can be done from here. I just buy from other WISPs. Working on fiber again. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Chuck Profito" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:05 PM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Peter & Matt, some one's knocking > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:22 AM > To: rku...@colusanet.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Depends on the loop. My CO is a tandem and there are at least 6 different > carriers there (Qwest, AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Lightcore, and Norlight first > come > > to mind), but I'm still $5k - $7k for a DS3 with a 0 mile loop. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > ------ > From: "Rick Kunze" > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > >> They're close to 1/2 that now. >> >> Rk >> >> On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: >>> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial >>> DS3. >>> >>> 10mb: $4300 >>> 20mb: $4788 >>> 30mb: $5300 >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Peter & Matt, some one's knocking -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:22 AM To: rku...@colusanet.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Depends on the loop. My CO is a tandem and there are at least 6 different carriers there (Qwest, AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Lightcore, and Norlight first come to mind), but I'm still $5k - $7k for a DS3 with a 0 mile loop. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Rick Kunze" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > They're close to 1/2 that now. > > Rk > > On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: >> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial >> DS3. >> >> 10mb: $4300 >> 20mb: $4788 >> 30mb: $5300 >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Agreed I love threads like these touting deals too good to be true. Many times they are. Three things matter when pricing bandwidth: (1) Location (2) Location (3) Location I'd gladly pay $5300 for 30MB in many, many parts of the country! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:22 AM To: rku...@colusanet.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Depends on the loop. My CO is a tandem and there are at least 6 different carriers there (Qwest, AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Lightcore, and Norlight first come to mind), but I'm still $5k - $7k for a DS3 with a 0 mile loop. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Rick Kunze" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > They're close to 1/2 that now. > > Rk > > On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: >> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial >> DS3. >> >> 10mb: $4300 >> 20mb: $4788 >> 30mb: $5300 >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I would recommend contacting ACC business. In my experience they give better pricing then AT&T direct. But also they could provide a better rate that you can bring to AT&T and have them give you a better rate. We used to have ACC but when we moved our new circuit is direct through AT&T. In all honesty installation and billing was better through ACC even if it was AT&T but they deal with one of their resellers and not end user so service is faster and all. I'm still waiting for some answers in regards to our install. Took them about 6 months to get service turned up. With ACC it was told 90 days and at 90 days we had service. Cool thing is since ACC is AT&T we just moved our assigned IP's and didn't have to renumber. I called the same # for tech support before with ACC as I do now for AT&T. I didn't figure that they (AT&T) would price match ACC but they did. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: "Mike Hammett" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:02:57 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN I'm going back through my contacts for you. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Chadd Thompson" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:22 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I > won't > say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. > > The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet > justification. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > >> /rant on >> >> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >> market >> where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get >> a >> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in >> the >> beginning. >> >> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give >> you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar >> situation >> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate >> any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything >> until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> >> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for >> the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks >> are non portable. >> >> /rant off >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 >> days >> or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are >> only using 4 class Cs? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Scott Piehn >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >> >> >> Scott >> - Original Message - >> From: "John Thomas" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >>> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >>> you are not, t
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Depends on the loop. My CO is a tandem and there are at least 6 different carriers there (Qwest, AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Lightcore, and Norlight first come to mind), but I'm still $5k - $7k for a DS3 with a 0 mile loop. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Rick Kunze" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > They're close to 1/2 that now. > > Rk > > On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: >> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial >> DS3. >> >> 10mb: $4300 >> 20mb: $4788 >> 30mb: $5300 >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I will have to give our account rep a call then. This pricing was from Jan of this year. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Kunze Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN They're close to 1/2 that now. Rk On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.18/2009 - Release Date: 03/18/09 07:17:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
On 3/18/2009 7:13 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I only call the telco once on billing problems now. If that doesn't fix it > I call the PUC. I concur. That REALLY gets their attention. I did it with my LEC some years back when Frontier was still Citizens. Now I call them Frontizens. Once I filed a single complaint with the PUC, they had to dispatch a room full of lawyer types to file formal answers back to the PUC. Saying you'll call the PUC is a very potent threat. Rk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
On 3/17/2009 8:49 PM, RickG wrote: > Of course, they'll bill you 10 times that and never fix their billing > issues! -RickG This is also true! Rk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
They're close to 1/2 that now. Rk On 3/17/2009 8:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Understood, but there's guys out there that have been running for years with hundreds of clients that aren't multihomed. It is difficult for someone with 20 customers to multihome, yes. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Richey" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:02 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > That's still a pretty hard thing for a small provider to swallow when they > are starting out. > > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:44 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Hi Mike, > > I can't agree more! > > Circuit diversity is really difficult in some remote areas though. Many > times, bringing redundant circuits in via licensed links is the ONLY way > to > get true diversity. > > Regards, > > Jeff > ImageStream > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:35 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > You should engineer your network to take advantage of BGP instead of being > afraid of it. BGP will bring you closer to more parts of the Internet and > will protect you from routing problems on the net. > > oh, and make sure the two lines you get are completely diverse. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:45 PM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > >> Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? >> I >> read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. >> Even at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will >> never really >> use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your >> traffic >> rolls over to the T1. >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of John Thomas >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that >> you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? >> You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe >> if necessary. >> >> I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We >> have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 >> blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* >> include Internet access, only point to point. >> >> John >> >> Richey wrote: >>> /rant on >>> >>> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >>> market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many >>> people might get >> a >>> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >>> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >>> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home >>> in >> the >>> beginning. >>> >>> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will >>> give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a >>> similar >> situation >>> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to >>> allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not >>> do anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg > problem. >>> >>> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >>> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard >>> for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their >>> IP blocks are non portable. >>> >>> /rant off >>> >>> Richey >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of Cliff Olle >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 200
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I only call the telco once on billing problems now. If that doesn't fix it I call the PUC. Actually, I've not even had to do that in years either. I just tell the telco that I'm going to call the PUC right after I get off the phone. They know I'll do it. grin marlon - Original Message - From: "Chadd Thompson" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Been there done that. > > We were getting double billed for about 8 months because they didn't > remove > our billing on some old circuits after they forced us to upgrade from the > old SBC network. We paid it for a few months because our account rep said > it > would be fixed and they would credit our account for what we over paid. > Well > they didn't get it fixed and we stopped paying it, our account rep assured > us it was nothing to worry about and that it would be taken care of. Well > 8 > months later the ATT collections dept was calling me saying they were > going > to turn us over to an outside collection agency. A quick call to my > account > rep and then one to the IL commerce commission had the problem taken care > of > in about 2 weeks. > > Sounds like you have had similar issues with them but you have no idea how > much grief ATT/SBC has caused me over the last 6 yrs we have been in > business. I wish I could get away from them but at this point in time no > one > seems to be able to help us out down here. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:49 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Of course, they'll bill you 10 times that and never fix their billing > issues! -RickG > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > >> Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial >> DS3. >> >> 10mb: $4300 >> 20mb: $4788 >> 30mb: $5300 >> >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I >> won't >> say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. >> >> The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet >> justification. >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -- >> From: "Richey" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> > /rant on >> > >> > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >> market >> > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might > get >> > a >> > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. >> > For >> > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home >> > in >> > the >> > beginning. >> > >> > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will > give >> > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar >> > situation >> > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to > allocate >> > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do >> > anything >> > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> > >> > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard > for >> > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP > blocks >> > are non portable. >> > >> > /rant off >> > >> > Richey >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> > To: 'WISPA General List' >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> > >&
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
That's still a pretty hard thing for a small provider to swallow when they are starting out. Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:44 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Hi Mike, I can't agree more! Circuit diversity is really difficult in some remote areas though. Many times, bringing redundant circuits in via licensed links is the ONLY way to get true diversity. Regards, Jeff ImageStream -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN You should engineer your network to take advantage of BGP instead of being afraid of it. BGP will bring you closer to more parts of the Internet and will protect you from routing problems on the net. oh, and make sure the two lines you get are completely diverse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Richey" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:45 PM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? > I > read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. > Even at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will > never really > use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your traffic > rolls over to the T1. > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of John Thomas > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that > you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? > You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe > if necessary. > > I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We > have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 > blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* > include Internet access, only point to point. > > John > > Richey wrote: >> /rant on >> >> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >> market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many >> people might get > a >> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home >> in > the >> beginning. >> >> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will >> give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a >> similar > situation >> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to >> allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not >> do anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> >> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard >> for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their >> IP blocks are non portable. >> >> /rant off >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 >> days or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the >> case you are only using 4 class Cs? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Scott Piehn >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >> >> >> Scott >> - Original Message - >> From: "John Thomas" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >> >>> If you are mu
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I'm going back through my contacts for you. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Chadd Thompson" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:22 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I > won't > say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. > > The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet > justification. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > ------ > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > >> /rant on >> >> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >> market >> where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get >> a >> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in >> the >> beginning. >> >> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give >> you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar >> situation >> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate >> any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything >> until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> >> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for >> the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks >> are non portable. >> >> /rant off >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 >> days >> or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are >> only using 4 class Cs? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Scott Piehn >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >> >> >> Scott >> - Original Message - >> From: "John Thomas" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >>> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >>> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>>> and >>>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>>> >>>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>>> >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -- > -- >> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >> -- > -- >> >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/p
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Where you at Chadd? May be some of us on here could help you out a little bit. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chadd Thompson Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Been there done that. We were getting double billed for about 8 months because they didn't remove our billing on some old circuits after they forced us to upgrade from the old SBC network. We paid it for a few months because our account rep said it would be fixed and they would credit our account for what we over paid. Well they didn't get it fixed and we stopped paying it, our account rep assured us it was nothing to worry about and that it would be taken care of. Well 8 months later the ATT collections dept was calling me saying they were going to turn us over to an outside collection agency. A quick call to my account rep and then one to the IL commerce commission had the problem taken care of in about 2 weeks. Sounds like you have had similar issues with them but you have no idea how much grief ATT/SBC has caused me over the last 6 yrs we have been in business. I wish I could get away from them but at this point in time no one seems to be able to help us out down here. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Of course, they'll bill you 10 times that and never fix their billing issues! -RickG On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a > partial DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I > won't say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. > > The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet > justification. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > /rant on > > > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a > market > > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people > > might get > > a > > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi > > home in the beginning. > > > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give > > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar > > situation where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream > > refused to allocate > > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do > > anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it > > hard for > > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks > > are non portable. > > > > /rant off > > > > Richey > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Cliff Olle > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within > > 30 > days > > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case > > you are > > only using 4 class Cs? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Scott Piehn > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > > > > Scott > > - Original Message - > &g
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Good thing we're wireless operators. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Jeff Broadwick" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:44 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Hi Mike, > > I can't agree more! > > Circuit diversity is really difficult in some remote areas though. Many > times, bringing redundant circuits in via licensed links is the ONLY way > to > get true diversity. > > Regards, > > Jeff > ImageStream > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:35 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > You should engineer your network to take advantage of BGP instead of being > afraid of it. BGP will bring you closer to more parts of the Internet and > will protect you from routing problems on the net. > > oh, and make sure the two lines you get are completely diverse. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > ---------- > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:45 PM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > >> Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? >> I >> read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. >> Even at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will >> never really >> use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your >> traffic >> rolls over to the T1. >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of John Thomas >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that >> you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? >> You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe >> if necessary. >> >> I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We >> have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 >> blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* >> include Internet access, only point to point. >> >> John >> >> Richey wrote: >>> /rant on >>> >>> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >>> market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many >>> people might get >> a >>> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >>> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >>> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home >>> in >> the >>> beginning. >>> >>> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will >>> give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a >>> similar >> situation >>> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to >>> allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not >>> do anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg > problem. >>> >>> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >>> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard >>> for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their >>> IP blocks are non portable. >>> >>> /rant off >>> >>> Richey >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of Cliff Olle >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 >>> days or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the >>> case you are only using 4 class Cs? >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of Scott Piehn >>> Se
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Hi Mike, I can't agree more! Circuit diversity is really difficult in some remote areas though. Many times, bringing redundant circuits in via licensed links is the ONLY way to get true diversity. Regards, Jeff ImageStream -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN You should engineer your network to take advantage of BGP instead of being afraid of it. BGP will bring you closer to more parts of the Internet and will protect you from routing problems on the net. oh, and make sure the two lines you get are completely diverse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Richey" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:45 PM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? > I > read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. > Even at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will > never really > use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your traffic > rolls over to the T1. > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of John Thomas > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that > you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? > You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe > if necessary. > > I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We > have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 > blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* > include Internet access, only point to point. > > John > > Richey wrote: >> /rant on >> >> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >> market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many >> people might get > a >> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home >> in > the >> beginning. >> >> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will >> give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a >> similar > situation >> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to >> allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not >> do anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> >> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard >> for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their >> IP blocks are non portable. >> >> /rant off >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 >> days or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the >> case you are only using 4 class Cs? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Scott Piehn >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >> >> >> Scott >> - Original Message - >> From: "John Thomas" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >> >>> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and >>> if you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> >>>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
You should engineer your network to take advantage of BGP instead of being afraid of it. BGP will bring you closer to more parts of the Internet and will protect you from routing problems on the net. oh, and make sure the two lines you get are completely diverse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Richey" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:45 PM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? > I > read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. Even > at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will never > really > use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your traffic > rolls over to the T1. > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of John Thomas > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that you > can legitimately run BGP and multi home? > You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe if > necessary. > > I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We have > a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 blocks > apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* include > Internet access, only point to point. > > John > > Richey wrote: >> /rant on >> >> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a >> market >> where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get > a >> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in > the >> beginning. >> >> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give >> you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar > situation >> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate >> any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything >> until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> >> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for >> the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks >> are non portable. >> >> /rant off >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 >> days >> or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are >> only using 4 class Cs? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Scott Piehn >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >> >> >> Scott >> - Original Message - >> From: "John Thomas" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >> >>> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >>> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> >>>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>>> and >>>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>>> >>>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>>> >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > >> >> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>&g
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I disagree with that Richey. You can filter out all but email traffic and your customers can still have that. It will be slower, but many customers can't LIVE without email. Regards, Jeff ImageStream -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Richey Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? I read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. Even at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will never really use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your traffic rolls over to the T1. Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe if necessary. I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* include Internet access, only point to point. John Richey wrote: > /rant on > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a > market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people > might get a > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home > in the > beginning. > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will > give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a > similar situation > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to > allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard > for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP > blocks are non portable. > > /rant off > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Cliff Olle > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 > days or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case > you are only using 4 class Cs? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Scott Piehn > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > Scott > - Original Message - > From: "John Thomas" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >> >> John >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class >>> c's and will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > ---
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Been there done that. We were getting double billed for about 8 months because they didn't remove our billing on some old circuits after they forced us to upgrade from the old SBC network. We paid it for a few months because our account rep said it would be fixed and they would credit our account for what we over paid. Well they didn't get it fixed and we stopped paying it, our account rep assured us it was nothing to worry about and that it would be taken care of. Well 8 months later the ATT collections dept was calling me saying they were going to turn us over to an outside collection agency. A quick call to my account rep and then one to the IL commerce commission had the problem taken care of in about 2 weeks. Sounds like you have had similar issues with them but you have no idea how much grief ATT/SBC has caused me over the last 6 yrs we have been in business. I wish I could get away from them but at this point in time no one seems to be able to help us out down here. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Of course, they'll bill you 10 times that and never fix their billing issues! -RickG On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I > won't > say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. > > The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet > justification. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > ------ > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > /rant on > > > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a > market > > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get > > a > > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in > > the > > beginning. > > > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give > > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar > > situation > > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate > > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything > > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for > > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks > > are non portable. > > > > /rant off > > > > Richey > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Cliff Olle > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 > days > > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > > only using 4 class Cs? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > > > > Scott > > - Original Message - > > From: "John Thomas" > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C&#x
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Of course, they'll bill you 10 times that and never fix their billing issues! -RickG On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Chadd Thompson wrote: > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I > won't > say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. > > The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet > justification. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > /rant on > > > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a > market > > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get > > a > > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in > > the > > beginning. > > > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give > > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar > > situation > > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate > > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything > > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for > > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks > > are non portable. > > > > /rant off > > > > Richey > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Cliff Olle > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 > days > > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > > only using 4 class Cs? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > > > > Scott > > - Original Message - > > From: "John Thomas" > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if > >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) > >> > >> John > >> > >> > >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's > >>> and > >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. > >>> > >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? > >>> > >>> marlon > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > -- > -- > > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>> > > > -- > -- > > > >>> > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>> > >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>> > >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>> > >>> > >>> >
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Why should you HAVE to pay for something that you really will never use? I read about guys in rural areas that are still paying $700+ for a T1. Even at $500/mo that's a lot of money to spend on something you will never really use.You might as well be down if your DS3 takes a hit and your traffic rolls over to the T1. Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe if necessary. I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* include Internet access, only point to point. John Richey wrote: > /rant on > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get a > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in the > beginning. > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar situation > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks > are non portable. > > /rant off > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Cliff Olle > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > only using 4 class Cs? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > Scott > - Original Message - > From: "John Thomas" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >> >> John >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >&
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Yes, I know we could have done that, but this client makes a lot of noise when anything resembling a hiccup occurs, and we weren't going to take that chance. ATT gets to deal with them when the DS3 has problems :-) On another note, they have been quite happy with their Covad Wireless Internet connection at $599 per month for 3 Meg Burstable to 6 meg. It has been down 2 times in the past year. Covad had a couple of nasty outages in the past month or so. John Travis Johnson wrote: > You are missing an opportunity there... > > Tell them you will provide them a 300Mbps full duplex link for $3,000 > per month. Then go buy a Trango licensed link for $11k and make $3k a > month profit after 4 months. :) > > Travis > Microserv > > John Thomas wrote: >> Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that you >> can legitimately run BGP and multi home? >> You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe if >> necessary. >> >> I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We have >> a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 blocks >> apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* include >> Internet access, only point to point. >> >> John >> >> Richey wrote: >> >>> /rant on >>> >>> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market >>> where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get a >>> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >>> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >>> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in the >>> beginning. >>> >>> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give >>> you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar situation >>> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate >>> any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything >>> until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >>> >>> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >>> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for >>> the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks >>> are non portable. >>> >>> /rant off >>> >>> Richey >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Cliff Olle >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days >>> or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are >>> only using 4 class Cs? >>> >>> -Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Scott Piehn >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >>> >>> >>> Scott >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "John Thomas" >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >>>> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>>>> and >>>>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>>>> >>>>> marlon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >&g
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
The thing that is sad about that is there are Internet providers that will install fiber to your premises and deliver the bandwidth for half that. American Fiber Systems http://www.americanfibersystems.com/ will do a 10 Meg Internet Connection over fiber to Reno NV for $2000 per month, with a $2000 install. John Chadd Thompson wrote: > Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial > DS3. > > 10mb: $4300 > 20mb: $4788 > 30mb: $5300 > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I won't > say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. > > The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet > justification. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Richey" > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> /rant on >> >> Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market >> where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get >> a >> DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For >> those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their >> connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in >> the >> beginning. >> >> If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give >> you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar >> situation >> where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate >> any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything >> until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. >> >> The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP >> multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for >> the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks >> are non portable. >> >> /rant off >> >> Richey >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Cliff Olle >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days >> or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are >> only using 4 class Cs? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Scott Piehn >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. >> >> >> Scott >> - Original Message - >> From: "John Thomas" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >> >>> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >>> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> >>>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>>> and >>>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>>> >>>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>>> >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -- >> > -- > >> >> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> >> -- >> > -- > >> >> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wirele
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
You are missing an opportunity there... Tell them you will provide them a 300Mbps full duplex link for $3,000 per month. Then go buy a Trango licensed link for $11k and make $3k a month profit after 4 months. :) Travis Microserv John Thomas wrote: Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe if necessary. I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* include Internet access, only point to point. John Richey wrote: /rant on Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get a DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in the beginning. If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar situation where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks are non portable. /rant off Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Olle Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are only using 4 class Cs? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. Scott - Original Message - From: "John Thomas" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) John Marlon K. Schafer wrote: We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's and will need more pretty soon in one location. Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ---
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Here are some quotes that I received a while back from ATT for a partial DS3. 10mb: $4300 20mb: $4788 30mb: $5300 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I won't say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet justification. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Richey" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > /rant on > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get > a > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in > the > beginning. > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar > situation > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks > are non portable. > > /rant off > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Cliff Olle > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > only using 4 class Cs? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > Scott > - Original Message - > From: "John Thomas" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >> >> John >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> > -- -- > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > -- -- > >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > -- -- > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > -- -- > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > -- -- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
Are you saying that it is not practical for you to get a T-1 so that you can legitimately run BGP and multi home? You can set BGP so that 99% of the traffic goes over the bigger pipe if necessary. I am curious where people are getting DS3's at $1500 per month? We have a client that has a point to point DS3 for 2 buildings that are 2 blocks apart and they pay $2000 for each end, and that *does not* include Internet access, only point to point. John Richey wrote: > /rant on > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get a > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in the > beginning. > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar situation > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks > are non portable. > > /rant off > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Cliff Olle > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > only using 4 class Cs? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > Scott > - Original Message - > From: "John Thomas" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >> >> John >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > >
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
It would be possible to get a wireless link off the Sears Tower (no, I won't say the new name), but a DS3 delivered here is well over $5k. The provider must always provide you with IPs, assuming you meet justification. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Richey" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:39 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > /rant on > > Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market > where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get > a > DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For > those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their > connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in > the > beginning. > > If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give > you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar > situation > where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate > any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything > until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. > > The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP > multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for > the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks > are non portable. > > /rant off > > Richey > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Cliff Olle > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > only using 4 class Cs? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > Scott > - Original Message - > From: "John Thomas" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >> >> John >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > > >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants Y
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
No. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Cliff Olle" Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:01 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > only using 4 class Cs? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > Scott > - Original Message - > From: "John Thomas" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >> >> John >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > > >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
Why does it feel like this is just the beginning? Ed Spoon - Computer Sales & Services, Inc. wrote: > I hear ya on the added zeroes, I think I saw that as well. I'm also pretty > sure they "lost" some of the data between when I started early last week and > when I resumed it this past weekend - I had to re-key a bunch of stuff I was > sure I already had done. Also started requiring 0% on residential when > earlier it allowed blank cells. > > Ed > > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Randy Cosby wrote: > > >> I actually did have Brian do ours as well. My problem had more to do >> with how my internal stuff was organized and my rusty excel skills. >> We'll be much more prepared next time. Thanks again Brian! >> >> Maybe I'm imagining things, but I could have sworn the FCC site put some >> of those zeros in automagically. >> >> Randy >> >> >> Don Renner wrote: >> >>> I would second the recommendation of Brian Webster's work. Took our 1000 >>> people and produced the 28 census tracts in 7 counties. Total time after >>> receiving 1hr 15 min. >>> >>> Don Renner >>> NetsurfUSA >>> 812-936-4514 >>> >>> -----Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Dylan Bouterse >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:40 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments) >>> >>> If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes. >>> http://www.fcc.gov/form477/ >>> >>> JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight >>> to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to >>> myself on this. >>> >>> Dylan >>> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> What is the due date for that form? >>> >>> Cliff Olle wrote: >>> With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the >>> filing >>> in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch >>> time >>> and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I >>> ever >>> spent. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute >>> disaster? >>> >>> We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. >>> >>> sigh >>> >>> I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files >>> >>> that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of >>> the >>> crap out. >>> >>> My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! >>> >>> g >>> marlon >>> >>> ----- Original Message - >>> From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> >>> To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ; >>> "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> >>> >>> agreed >>> >>> When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone >>> right away >>> that >>> new what they were talking about >>> >>> Easier than Form 477 for us >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Scott Carullo" >>> <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> >>> >>> You dont need that - just
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
I hear ya on the added zeroes, I think I saw that as well. I'm also pretty sure they "lost" some of the data between when I started early last week and when I resumed it this past weekend - I had to re-key a bunch of stuff I was sure I already had done. Also started requiring 0% on residential when earlier it allowed blank cells. Ed On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Randy Cosby wrote: > I actually did have Brian do ours as well. My problem had more to do > with how my internal stuff was organized and my rusty excel skills. > We'll be much more prepared next time. Thanks again Brian! > > Maybe I'm imagining things, but I could have sworn the FCC site put some > of those zeros in automagically. > > Randy > > > Don Renner wrote: > > I would second the recommendation of Brian Webster's work. Took our 1000 > > people and produced the 28 census tracts in 7 counties. Total time after > > receiving 1hr 15 min. > > > > Don Renner > > NetsurfUSA > > 812-936-4514 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Dylan Bouterse > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:40 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments) > > > > If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes. > > http://www.fcc.gov/form477/ > > > > JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight > > to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to > > myself on this. > > > > Dylan > > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > What is the due date for that form? > > > > Cliff Olle wrote: > > With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the > > filing > > in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch > > time > > and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I > > ever > > spent. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute > > disaster? > > > > We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. > > > > sigh > > > > I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files > > > > that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of > > the > > crap out. > > > > My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! > > > > g > > marlon > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> > > To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ; > > "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > > > > > agreed > > > > When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone > > right away > > that > > new what they were talking about > > > > Easier than Form 477 for us > > > > Scott > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Scott Carullo" > > <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> > > To: "WISPA General List" > > <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > > > > > You dont need that - just go to their website and you > > can call too - its > > easy. > > > > Scott Carullo > > Brevard Wireless > > 321-205-1100 x102 > > > > Original Message > > > > From: "Marlon K. Schafer" > > <mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM > > To: "WISPA General List" > > <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > >
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
/rant on Dealing with Arin is frustrating if you are a smaller provider in a market where it's not cost effective to multi home. Where many people might get a DS3 for as little as $1500/mo or less, some may pay $3,000+/month. For those who are in more rural areas stuck paying high prices for their connection to the backbone it's just not cost effective to multi home in the beginning. If you are single homed you must use /20 (4096 IPs) before they will give you an allocation. I have had problems in the past with a similar situation where a network was using 12 class c and the upstream refused to allocate any more IPs saying we needed to go to ARIN. ARIN would not do anything until we were using a /20 so it became a chicken or the egg problem. The policy should be different for an ISP. If you are a small ISP multi-homed or not you should be able to get a /22. It makes it hard for the smaller provider to change backbone providers because their IP blocks are non portable. /rant off Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Olle Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:02 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are only using 4 class Cs? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. Scott - Original Message - From: "John Thomas" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if > you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) > > John > > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >> and >> will need more pretty soon in one location. >> >> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >> >> marlon >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
They won't even come knocking on your door if you don't file at all, so I think you'll be okay. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Randy Cosby Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments) ARGH! I was late (even by pacific time, I wonder if they wait until Hawaii time before they make the cutoff?) I spent nearly two hours trying to figure out vague errors I was getting on the final submission. This Submission could not be accepted. Some of the totals computed from the detail data do not match reported state totals. For your convenience, the non-matching cells are detailed below. Please correct the data and resubmit. Terrestrial Fixed Wireless Download Information Transfer Rate Upload Information transfer rate from the end user 200 - 767.9 kbps 768 kbps - 1.49 mbps 1.5 - 2.9 mbps 3 - 5.9 mbps 6 - 9.9 mbps 10 - 24.9 mbps 25 - 99.9 mbps > 100 mbps Turns out they don't like ZEROS in any of the fields on the summary page. Why don't they just SAY that! Off to bed. If they throw me in prison for being late, please write once in a while. Randy Dylan Bouterse wrote: If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes. http://www.fcc.gov/form477/ JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to myself on this. Dylan From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN What is the due date for that form? Cliff Olle wrote: With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the filing in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch time and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I ever spent. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute disaster? We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. sigh I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of the crap out. My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! g marlon - Original Message - From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ; "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN agreed When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away that new what they were talking about Easier than Form 477 for us Scott - Original Message - From: "Scott Carullo" <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its easy. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's and will need more pretty soon in one location. Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
I actually did have Brian do ours as well. My problem had more to do with how my internal stuff was organized and my rusty excel skills. We'll be much more prepared next time. Thanks again Brian! Maybe I'm imagining things, but I could have sworn the FCC site put some of those zeros in automagically. Randy Don Renner wrote: > I would second the recommendation of Brian Webster's work. Took our 1000 > people and produced the 28 census tracts in 7 counties. Total time after > receiving 1hr 15 min. > > Don Renner > NetsurfUSA > 812-936-4514 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Dylan Bouterse > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:40 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments) > > If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes. > http://www.fcc.gov/form477/ > > JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight > to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to > myself on this. > > Dylan > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > What is the due date for that form? > > Cliff Olle wrote: > With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the > filing > in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch > time > and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I > ever > spent. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute > disaster? > > We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. > > sigh > > I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files > > that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of > the > crap out. > > My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! > > g > marlon > > ----- Original Message - > From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> > To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ; > "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > agreed > > When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone > right away > that > new what they were talking about > > Easier than Form 477 for us > > Scott > > > - Original Message - > From: "Scott Carullo" > <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> > To: "WISPA General List" > <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > > You dont need that - just go to their website and you > can call too - its > easy. > > Scott Carullo > Brevard Wireless > 321-205-1100 x102 > > Original Message > > From: "Marlon K. Schafer" > <mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM > To: "WISPA General List" > <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > We probably need to get our own ip addys now. > We're using 4 class c's > > and > > will need more pretty soon in one location. > > Anyone know a consultant that can help with the > application process? > > marlon > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA W
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
I had the same problem! How can they have some of the error checking
they have, and not accept 0s in fields??? I'm sorry for not mentioning
that when I wrote my email. I was still kind of hot from figuring that
out when I wrote it too.
Which prison did you say? ;)
Dylan
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
ARGH!
I was late (even by pacific time, I wonder if they wait until Hawaii
time before they make the cutoff?)
I spent nearly two hours trying to figure out vague errors I was getting
on the final submission.
This Submission could not be accepted. Some of the totals computed from
the detail data do not match reported state totals. For your
convenience, the non-matching cells are detailed below. Please correct
the data and resubmit.
Terrestrial Fixed Wireless
Download Information Transfer Rate
Upload Information transfer rate from the end user
200 - 767.9 kbps
768 kbps - 1.49 mbps
1.5 - 2.9 mbps
3 - 5.9 mbps
6 - 9.9 mbps
10 - 24.9 mbps
25 - 99.9 mbps
> 100 mbps
Turns out they don't like ZEROS in any of the fields on the summary
page. Why don't they just SAY that!
Off to bed. If they throw me in prison for being late, please write
once in a while.
Randy
Dylan Bouterse wrote:
If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes.
http://www.fcc.gov/form477/
JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight
to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to
myself on this.
Dylan
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
What is the due date for that form?
Cliff Olle wrote:
With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the
filing
in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch
time
and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I
ever
spent.
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute
disaster?
We don't ever TRACK most of what they want.
sigh
I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files
that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of
the
crap out.
My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this!
g
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com>
<mailto:li...@jcwifi.com> <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com>
To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ;
"WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
agreed
When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone
right away
that
new what they were talking about
Easier than Form 477 for us
Scott
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Carullo"
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
To: "WISPA General List"
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
You dont need that - just go to their website and you
can call too - its
easy.
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: "Marlon K. Schafer"
<mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com>
<mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com> <mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM
To: "WISPA General List"
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
We probably need to get our own ip addys now.
We're using 4 class c's
and
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
I would second the recommendation of Brian Webster's work. Took our 1000
people and produced the 28 census tracts in 7 counties. Total time after
receiving 1hr 15 min.
Don Renner
NetsurfUSA
812-936-4514
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dylan Bouterse
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes.
http://www.fcc.gov/form477/
JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight
to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to
myself on this.
Dylan
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
What is the due date for that form?
Cliff Olle wrote:
With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the
filing
in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch
time
and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I
ever
spent.
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute
disaster?
We don't ever TRACK most of what they want.
sigh
I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files
that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of
the
crap out.
My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this!
g
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com>
To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ;
"WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
agreed
When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone
right away
that
new what they were talking about
Easier than Form 477 for us
Scott
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Carullo"
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
To: "WISPA General List"
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
You dont need that - just go to their website and you
can call too - its
easy.
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: "Marlon K. Schafer"
<mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM
To: "WISPA General List"
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
We probably need to get our own ip addys now.
We're using 4 class c's
and
will need more pretty soon in one location.
Anyone know a consultant that can help with the
application process?
marlon
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives:
http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
No. You'll need a /21 worth of existing PA address space in order to justify a /20 initial allocation from ARIN. See below: https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv4_initial_alloc.html Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Cliff Olle wrote: > I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days > or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are > only using 4 class Cs? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Scott Piehn > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. > > > Scott > - Original Message - > From: "John Thomas" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if >> you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) >> >> John >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I was told that I would have to have BGP and be multi-homed within 30 days or they could revoke my IP's. Would they allot a /20 in the case you are only using 4 class Cs? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. Scott - Original Message - From: "John Thomas" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if > you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) > > John > > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >> and >> will need more pretty soon in one location. >> >> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >> >> marlon >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
One add to the /22. You need to be or plan to be running BGP. Scott - Original Message - From: "John Thomas" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if > you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) > > John > > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >> and >> will need more pretty soon in one location. >> >> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >> >> marlon >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
ARGH! I was late (even by pacific time, I wonder if they wait until Hawaii time before they make the cutoff?) I spent nearly two hours trying to figure out vague errors I was getting on the final submission. This Submission could not be accepted. Some of the totals computed from the detail data do not match reported state totals. For your convenience, the non-matching cells are detailed below. Please correct the data and resubmit. Terrestrial Fixed Wireless Download Information Transfer Rate Upload Information transfer rate from the end user 200 - 767.9 kbps 768 kbps - 1.49 mbps 1.5 - 2.9 mbps 3 - 5.9 mbps 6 - 9.9 mbps 10 - 24.9 mbps 25 - 99.9 mbps > 100 mbps Turns out they don't like ZEROS in any of the fields on the summary page. Why don't they just SAY that! Off to bed. If they throw me in prison for being late, please write once in a while. Randy Dylan Bouterse wrote: If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes. http://www.fcc.gov/form477/ JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to myself on this. Dylan From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN What is the due date for that form? Cliff Olle wrote: With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the filing in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch time and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I ever spent. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute disaster? We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. sigh I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of the crap out. My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! g marlon - Original Message - From: "Scott Piehn" To: ; "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN agreed When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away that new what they were talking about Easier than Form 477 for us Scott - Original Message - From: "Scott Carullo" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its easy. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: "Marlon K. Schafer" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's and will need more pretty soon in one location. Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes.
http://www.fcc.gov/form477/
JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight
to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to
myself on this.
Dylan
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
What is the due date for that form?
Cliff Olle wrote:
With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the
filing
in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch
time
and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I
ever
spent.
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute
disaster?
We don't ever TRACK most of what they want.
sigh
I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files
that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of
the
crap out.
My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this!
g
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Piehn" <mailto:li...@jcwifi.com>
To: <mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com> ;
"WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
agreed
When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone
right away
that
new what they were talking about
Easier than Form 477 for us
Scott
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Carullo"
<mailto:sc...@brevardwireless.com>
To: "WISPA General List"
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
You dont need that - just go to their website and you
can call too - its
easy.
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: "Marlon K. Schafer"
<mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM
To: "WISPA General List"
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
We probably need to get our own ip addys now.
We're using 4 class c's
and
will need more pretty soon in one location.
Anyone know a consultant that can help with the
application process?
marlon
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Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
If you are multihomed you need to justify a /22 ( 4 Class C's) and if you are not, then you will need to justify a /20 ( 16 class C's) John Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's and > will need more pretty soon in one location. > > Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? > > marlon > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
What is the due date for that form? Cliff Olle wrote: With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the filing in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch time and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I ever spent. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute disaster? We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. sigh I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of the crap out. My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! g marlon - Original Message - From: "Scott Piehn" To: ; "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN agreed When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away that new what they were talking about Easier than Form 477 for us Scott - Original Message - From: "Scott Carullo" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its easy. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: "Marlon K. Schafer" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's and will need more pretty soon in one location. Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I agree, but did you check the data? PO Boxes don't convert. It just left them blank. I had one area where 50% of the addresses came back in the wrong county. I don't think that was Brian's fault at all, but the lookup engine just missed. Some others where we had to "massage" the data to get the format because the tracts with decimal did not all get formatted right when we imported the data. Overall a huge thanks to Brian!!! But even with that it took us probably a total of 30 hours for about 1500 clients. The 5 hours was about right for a group of about 300 clients. Cliff Olle wrote: > With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the filing > in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch time > and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I ever > spent. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute disaster? > > We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. > > sigh > > I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files > that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of the > crap out. > > My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! > > g > marlon > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Piehn" > To: ; "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > > >> agreed >> >> When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away >> that >> new what they were talking about >> >> Easier than Form 477 for us >> >> Scott >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Scott Carullo" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >> >>> You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its >>> easy. >>> >>> Scott Carullo >>> Brevard Wireless >>> 321-205-1100 x102 >>> >>> Original Message >>> >>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" >>>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM >>>> To: "WISPA General List" >>>> Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>>> >>>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>>> >>> and >>> >>>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>>> >>>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>>> >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > >>> >>> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> > > >>> >>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> > > > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > --
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the filing in 5 minutes. I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch time and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this. Best $100 I ever spent. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute disaster? We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. sigh I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of the crap out. My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! g marlon - Original Message - From: "Scott Piehn" To: ; "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > agreed > > When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away > that > new what they were talking about > > Easier than Form 477 for us > > Scott > > > - Original Message - > From: "Scott Carullo" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> >> You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its >> easy. >> >> Scott Carullo >> Brevard Wireless >> 321-205-1100 x102 >> >> ---- Original Message >>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >> >> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
I'm sure the FCC guys really appreciate all that free labor that's being done for them. Any bets they get up in front of Congress and praise you for doing it? Or, do you suppose they'll take the credit? Maybe a good stiff tax hike would make you feel better? - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute disaster? > > We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. > > sigh > > I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files > that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of the > crap out. > > My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! > > g > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Scott Piehn" > To: ; "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> agreed >> >> When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away >> that >> new what they were talking about >> >> Easier than Form 477 for us >> >> Scott >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Scott Carullo" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> >>> >>> You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its >>> easy. >>> >>> Scott Carullo >>> Brevard Wireless >>> 321-205-1100 x102 >>> >>> Original Message >>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" >>>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM >>>> To: "WISPA General List" >>>> Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>>> >>>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >>> and >>>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>>> >>>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>>> >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
oh man, we're STILL working on the 477. Isn't that an absolute disaster? We don't ever TRACK most of what they want. sigh I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files that will export the data in a file for the fcc. Let them sort all of the crap out. My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this! g marlon - Original Message - From: "Scott Piehn" To: ; "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > agreed > > When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away > that > new what they were talking about > > Easier than Form 477 for us > > Scott > > > - Original Message - > From: "Scott Carullo" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > >> >> You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its >> easy. >> >> Scott Carullo >> Brevard Wireless >> 321-205-1100 x102 >> >> ---- Original Message >>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >>> >>> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's >> and >>> will need more pretty soon in one location. >>> >>> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >> >> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
agreed When we had specific questions, we called ARIN. Got someone right away that new what they were talking about Easier than Form 477 for us Scott - Original Message - From: "Scott Carullo" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its > easy. > > Scott Carullo > Brevard Wireless > 321-205-1100 x102 > > Original Message >> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN >> >> We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's > and >> will need more pretty soon in one location. >> >> Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? >> >> marlon >> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
You dont need that - just go to their website and you can call too - its easy. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message > From: "Marlon K. Schafer" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN > > We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's and > will need more pretty soon in one location. > > Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? > > marlon > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] speaking of ARIN
We probably need to get our own ip addys now. We're using 4 class c's and will need more pretty soon in one location. Anyone know a consultant that can help with the application process? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
