Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy
Myself I would say when possible have an alternate txt or html file. I strongly discourage pdf on websites unless it is a zip file for download. As stated by Damian they are annoying for users with modems, and I find them annoying at all times. Keep pdf's for printing and inter office. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: "Damian Sweeney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy > Hi Ted, > > I would say let the user decide. Wherever possible I try to provide enough > information in the link itself so that the user knows what to expect and > can proceed as they wish. Many people will set up their browser to deal > with different file types according to their preference (open the document > in the browser, open it in the application, download the file). Opening in > a new window removes user choice. By providing a plain link you give users > the option that you use of `right-click - open in new window`. How do I > choose to open a new-window-link in the current window if that is my > preference? > > The only time I open links (to web pages) in a new window is when I have > to place a link inside someone else's frame and I warn the user that I'm > doing it. I wouldn't use a new window for the downloadable documents you > are referring to. > > Unexpected pdfs are annoying, especially for low-bandwidth users. So, I > would recommend something like: > > Some stuff (pdf format, 200kb) > > Include all the info in the link, if you can, for people who only read the > links. > > Cheers, > > Damian > > > Hi All > > > > > > > > We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the > user's > > browser / making it more user-friendly. What is the general feeling > towards > > having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window? > > > > > -- > Damian Sweeney > Learning Skills Adviser (online) > Language and Learning Skills Unit > Instructional Designer, AIRport Project > Equity, Language and Learning Programs > University of Melbourne > 723 Swanston St > Parkville 3010 > www.services.unimelb.edu.au/ellp/ > www.services.unimelb.edu.au/llsu/ > airport.unimelb.edu.au/ > ph 03 8344 9370, fax 03 9349 1039 > > This email and any attachments may contain personal information or > information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of > copyright. Any unauthorised use, disclosure or copying of any part of it > is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any > attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any > attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this > email is received in error please delete it and notify us by return email > or by phoning (03) 8344 9370. > > > > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] getting ie 6 PC to behave with padding, margins and h1 within a div
I have a div bar, which I am trying to make the height narrower, but
in IE PC , it doesn't want to cooperate unless I add a specific height
to the div, but then my h1, appears at the top of the div, so I try
adding some padding or margin to the h1 which expans the height of the
div which it contains and I DONT want that.
here is the page:http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/index.htm
I am referring to the green bar with the h1 'home'
CSS in question:
* html div#page_title_bar{/*for IE to make bar thinner*/
background-color:#9bb58f;
padding:0;
margin:0;
border-top:1px solid #363;
border-bottom:1px solid #363;
height:15px;
}
* html div#page_title_bar h1{/*for IE again*/
margin-top:.25em;
}
anything I can do here?
thanks
--
::Bruce::
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] footer at bottom of page
I was hoping someone could look at this page http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/Company.htm and help me with getting the footer at the absolute bottom of the page. Right now, as I look at in in FF PC, there is some of the body which shows below it. The body is green and the footer is white. the CSS is at : http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/WDM.css thx! -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] browser v.5 woes
I just checked a site I am working on in both PC and Mac v. 5.0 and the page is looking pretty crappy in those browsers. I am most interested in getting things looiking better in IE PC 5.0. The main probs are top menu scrunched together with side borders and h1 title page div not enough padding . Any hacks I can apply specifically to the 5's is greatly appreciative. URL: http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/Company.htm CSS:http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/Bruce/WDM.css -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] curing float drops in IE
I am always having trouble with my floats dropping below the container
\s they are being floated against in IE. Other than reducing the
amount of space (since IE adds extra padding I believe), is there a
good way to prevent this from occurring?
for example I have two columns with the css as:
#left_column{/*positioning for left column*/
float:left;
width:310px;
margin-left:15px;
}
#right_column{/*positioning for right column*/
width:448px;
margin-left:360px;
padding-left:10px;
}
and the right column drops down in IE
--
::Bruce::
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Logic?
Thanks Prabhath; All I know is that what Prabhath said worked perfectly for me for this. I almost never make fixed width layouts, just a personal preference is all. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Logic? > Please forgive me if I've missed something, but I must respectfully disagree. > > I've created a number of fixed-width layouts centered within the viewport at 760px, and floated > one-column left and the other column right inside a container div without issue. > > Again, if I've misunderstood the issue and answer my apologies. > > Kind regards, > Mario > > > >> The border cuts off at bottom of menu, not bottom of content. > >> That don't make sense. > > > > Makes a lot of sense. Floated elements don't take up any space in the container (i.e. the > > container will not "contain" them). > > > > There are several ways to get it working, but this is probably one of the best: > > > > http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html > > > > Prabhath > > http://nidahas.com > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > ** > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Logic?
I am testing a rather simple layout, to keep things short I simplified it, hopefully not too much: I added a 1px border to a wrapper tag--container. Inside this is float left and a right menu. left is content, right is menu. The border cuts off at bottom of menu, not bottom of content. That don't make sense. some text, main articles etc Menu Why don't the border stay with the container tag? I tried height:100%; in stylesheet, worked in ie but not firefox. What am I missing? Thanks in advance Bruce Prochnau BKDesign SOlutions
Re: [WSG] Flash and Standards
The Web Standards Group is an awesome resource. Thank you, I received three answers within minutes that completely resolved the problem with three alternate solutions, each valid and comprehensive, and I might add, interesting and informative. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions- receives more solutions - Original Message - From: "Jan Brasna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Flash and Standards > > http://blog.deconcept.com/flashobject/ > > answer to flash and standards? > > Yep, IMHO better than Satay. > > -- > Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Flash and Standards
http://blog.deconcept.com/flashobject/ Typically, I found this 2 minutes after sending above, is this the answer to flash and standards? Thanks in advance Bruce Prochanu BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: Bruce To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 5:19 PM Subject: [WSG] Flash and Standards Hi all, I'm sure this has been covered someplace, but when actually running into it on a busy schedule...you know the rest. A simple flash button for audio, from wimpy. Validator says: There is no attribute for: Nor for: quality, name, width, height, pluginsPage, and of course "embed" is undefined. At about this point one has a tendency to throw out webstandards completely or the demo. Several hours of fiddling with this didn't help. Not to blame webstandards for my lack of knowledge, but...sheesh. Any ideas besides taking a 2 month long course? Does Macromedia have a place to make their code work with Valid CSS? Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions
[WSG] Flash and Standards
Hi all, I'm sure this has been covered someplace, but when actually running into it on a busy schedule...you know the rest. A simple flash button for audio, from wimpy. Validator says: There is no attribute for: Nor for: quality, name, width, height, pluginsPage, and of course "embed" is undefined. At about this point one has a tendency to throw out webstandards completely or the demo. Several hours of fiddling with this didn't help. Not to blame webstandards for my lack of knowledge, but...sheesh. Any ideas besides taking a 2 month long course? Does Macromedia have a place to make their code work with Valid CSS? Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions
Re: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list
On 8/4/05, Rachel Radford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
> It's looking good but quite different between FF and IE...
>
> Try putting a negative top margin on the image with the hand and key... that
> should fix that problem for Firefox. But you might need to make it
> conditional so that IE 6 won't do it too. From a design point of view
> perhaps a background colour on the div id="maincontent_image" so that you
> don't get the green colour below the image and so you create a visual
> column??
Hey Rachel and group,
thanks for the tip about the neg. margin. Looks good in FF now but it
did mess up IE. What would a conditional statement for IE 6 consist
of?
here is the CSS in question:
div#maincontent_image{/*used as a holder and placement for main images
which appear on a page*/
float:left;
width:214px;
height:366px;
border-right:1px solid #333;
margin:-1.14em 1.5em 0 0;
background-color:#363;
}
http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file_home.htm
http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/WDM.css
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list
Hello, thanks for the information about using a definition list to layout thumbnail images and text. I think this is a great way to do things. I am still having some layout issues looking at firefox on the PC though. take a look at http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file_home.htm and the CSS at http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/WDM.css the thumbnail images and the text, aren't quite aligning like I want.The dt shoul align to the right off the image above the dd list. and a little for space between the image and text. another small issue I am seeing is the picture with the hand holding the key has some unwanted spacing at the top before you get to the darker green bar. I need to get rid of that spacing and am not sure where it is coming from. Any assistance on this is greatly appreciated!!! -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] how should I mark this up ? (thumbnail links)
I have a test site set up at http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file.htm and part of it I am struggling as the best way to code it. That would be the thumbnail images links you see around the middle of the page (free applications, cost estimate, one on one). right now I have a container div and individual divs to separate the images. My first problem is I want to get rid of the border around the images, since they are links. my second problem is I need the link txt to line up to the top right of the images and have some more text below it which explains what the link is. This is probably no simple, but any suggestions are appreciated. -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] background images fluid
Result: http://peoriaaz.nexcess.net/index.php Anyways, that's what all the fuss was about. Site was just started this morning. Done in Expression Engine. Redoing everything yet. Thanks again Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] background images fluid
Thank you to all who responded. I see that it is a problem with CSS at present. Partial solution seems to be making the image wide (I had it at 720px or thereabouts) I made the image itself 1026w, and 11k, now it sscales nicely, and for larger res the fade or framed with another image seems the answer. Fading into background color on the right seems good idea. Thanks for the feedback, it helped immensely with different methods to workaround. I thought I was just bein dumb, but seems not. Was just tryin what cannot be done! ;-) At least now 800 and 1024 res are covered. Thanks Again Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] background images fluid
I guess I cannot communicate what I mean. I have an image on my own website of a sunset. I put it in the banner div as an image and set the width to 100%. I am perfectly happy with it, it looks good and stretches to fit all resolutions. There is nothing wrong with it at all. At 1024 it fills the monitor to both edges, and does the same at 800 with no scroll bars. I have no clue at all what "being clever with my images" means. I don't even want to be clever with them. I prefer being as I am, just a dumbass old country boy trying to make websites. I was wondering if an image would stretch as a background image in the stylesheet as a background. That's all. Ingo did a demo as a background image of a h1 tag. I thought that would work. Using the EXACT same code that he used, in the stylesheet for the banner it does not work. I have no idea why not. I was trying to do that for a client on another website. Maybe it cannot be done. Maybe I have no idea how to describe making a background image stretch. Thank you to all who answered. Bruce Prochnau > Hi Bruce, > > I had a quick look at your current header and see what you are trying to do. > At the end of the day I think you need to just be a bit more clever with > your image. I *borrowed* your current image and did a very crude editing job > to it so it will look good at the avg resolution, but you will need to tile > it across the header (repeat-x) and it will tile for people with higher > resolutions!! Give it a try > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/matrix_revolutions/header_sample.jpg > > Again, I could have made it a bit nicer so it tiles/aligns better, but you > will get the picture!! > > Cheers > > Nathan > > > > > Andreas Boehmer wrote: > > > >> Can you give an example of what you mean? > > > > A header or banner at the top. I can put an image in there: > > > > > > > > > > It will size according to the resolution. Stretch and shrink. > > But I cannot make it do that in the stylesheet as a background image. > > Is there a way? > > Thanks everyone for answering, I should have been more specific. > > > > Bruce Prochnau > > BKDesign Solutions. > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > ** > > > > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] background images fluid
Ingo Chao wrote: > Bruce schrieb: > > It will size according to the resolution. Stretch and shrink. > > Not stretching, not static, though: > http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/wide.html > > Ingo That's it!! Thank you Ingo Awesome Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - just got a solution. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] background images fluid
Vicki Berry wrote: > if the image doesn't stretch forever [***I can't get it to stretch at all, thats the problem***] and isn't suitable to be repeated > - to have a "fluid" section of the banner with a background image set > to repeat in the CSS, and with the "un-repeatable" image on one side, > blending it with the stretchy section with a gradient. > > You could adapt this if you wanted an image on both sides, creating a > fluid mid-section. "... with the "un-repeatable" image on one side, blending it with the stretchy section with a gradient." Looks like a perfect solution. At least as perfect as can be had. Thanks to all who ansered. Funny how it can be easily done as an image IN the banner , but not in staylesheet. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] background images fluid
Andreas Boehmer wrote: > Can you give an example of what you mean? A header or banner at the top. I can put an image in there: It will size according to the resolution. Stretch and shrink. But I cannot make it do that in the stylesheet as a background image. Is there a way? Thanks everyone for answering, I should have been more specific. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] background images fluid
What is the best way to get a 100% width on a background image in a banner? I believe in fluid sites that look good in all resolutions, img tag works easy at 100% width, but even searching for hours on google didn't help for css background sizing in %. Anyone can help? Thanks in advance. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions
Re: [WSG] My life as an 800x600 leper (was: Site Check: Broadleaf)
I am also older, and LIKE 800 res. I feel that to be standards acceptable, there is no reason why a site cannot be made fluid, so it fits all resolutions. I see s many sites either a narrow band in the middle at high res, lately one on the left with a mile wide blank space on the right, (looks rediculous), or scrollbars at 800. Fixed width is the culprit here. If that makes me a "leper" as well, fine. I'll join the other 40% or whatever of users who go with 800. Funny how much is done for 10% for accessibbility (of course) but nothing for 40+% user preferences 40% or whatever, no arguments on this pls. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: "SunUp" i have to chime in here on this quoted text, but for another reason... i build web sites. i'm over 40. i have 20/20 vision. i work (and play) at 800x600. i LIKE it. many ppl on this list ask the members for opinions on their work. i sometimes nervously reply privately, with a screenshot, to show how it looks on a lower res. i don't often get a response. but i do hear ppl say in their posts how they sacrifice the low res visitor. recently there was a thread about websites dealing with statistics (browsers, resolutions, platforms etc). i went to one of the sites (not belonging to a member here, i think, but a pretty well-known stats site). i couldn't see a third of it without horizontally scrolling. i was amazed and more than a little annoyed. i emailed them. their reply stated that they made the decision "years ago" not to support 800x600. when i replied and expressed my surprise at "years ago" i offered a few suggestions about web standards and accessibility, and about this being the "world" wide web (as opposed to the "office" wide). i have to confess, i may have sounded a little rude (i was pretty irritated by now) so i probably deserved what i got back: "Thanks for the initial comments, but I'm not going to be drawn into an argument on something so banal.". umm... accessibility is "banal"? another site i contacted recently (i feel like i'm becoming a one-woman low-res evangelist) responded with "Yeah... It's a harsh decision I made. Everything's too skinny otherwise.". so, seriously folks, am i wrong to hope that a site will look "right" in my browsing environment? should i "get with the current trend" and go 1024+ ? i honestly want to know if i should just shut up about the fact that i have to horizontally scroll on MANY sites. a large majority of them are designed by folk who i would normally assume to be "in the know" about this sort of thing, and THEY don't seem to care what it looks like for me. sunny ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000
Dean | eCreate wrote: Thanks for all the replies. I have pulled all the minimum width javascript off the page. Can you test again? Just the homepage: <http://www.stthomasaquinasacademy.org/> Thanks, Dean ** In win98, ie6 at 800 res all looks and loads great. Scrollbars on bottom even when screen maxed on all but main page. Nice! Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions Using ie6 and res of 800 is neither ignorant nor stupid, it represents nearly 50% of clients out there. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000
I don't know about anyone else, but on mine with win98 it locked up on both occasions, making me lose all five windows as I had to alt-ctrl-del to eeven close it, closing all open browsers (5 or 6) losing what I had. No I won't check it again, but would be interested in what the h*** is in there. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: "sam sherlock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000 > bullet proof here also > > > > Dean | eCreate wrote: > > >If anybody out there has Win 2000 running IE6 could you check this URL: > > > ><http://www.stthomasaquinasacademy.org/> > > > >I am getting one report that it is loading but then hanging up IE. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Dean > > > >** > >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > >** > > > > > > > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text messes up in Internet Explorer - newbie
I really appreciate the feedback. The document validates as XHTML 1.0 Transitional. CSS has no errors nor warnings. I have Firefox with all the goodies including webdev. .As I said, it was a h2 tag error which I fixed just now. I guess I should have said so. All I was wondering was if there is a known issue that would make some text be at the top of center column. Was just hoping someone would say, "Yes, fixed positioning can cause that, use such and such." I don't want to bother anyone, that's why I never ask, though it can be a tad frustrating as everytone knows. Will hang in there though, not ready to toss standards yet ;-) Thanks for the feedback. Will do more searches. Bruce Prochnau - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Text messes up in Internet Explorer - newbie > Donna Jones wrote: > > hi Bruce: There are some errors in your html that may be causing it. > > Validate your code and then see what's happening. if you don't have > > firefox installed with its webdev extension you probably should and > > that's maybe the easiest way to get to the validator. if you need more > > help with that ask and i, or someone, would be happy to look up the urls > > for you. > > here you go bruce, just in case. > > css validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ > html validator: http://validator.w3.org/ > html tidy: http://infohound.net/tidy/ > > welcome aboard! > dwain > > > -- > Dwain Alford > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.alforddesigngroup.com > > "The artist may use any form which his expression demands; > for his inner impulse must find suitable expression." > Wassily Kandinsky, "Concerning The Spiritual In Art" > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Fw: [WSG] Text messes up in Internet Explorer - newbie
Woops, gap fixed. space in code. > Thank you for answering Donna, > > Validator says 1 error, and it's a h2 tag in a post. I also have a 3 pixel > gap below banner image that's driving me nuts. > body, img, banner, padding and margins set to 0 > > Standards are great, and I know there is a learning curve, but when one is > trying to exist and make a living, dozens of hours spent over "little > things" make one want to give up and use tables or something. Seriously. > Just frustrated I guess... > > Bruce > > Donna Jones wrote: > > > hi Bruce: There are some errors in your html that may be causing it. > > Validate your code and then see what's happening. if you don't have > > firefox installed with its webdev extension you probably should and > > that's maybe the easiest way to get to the validator. if you need more > > help with that ask and i, or someone, would be happy to look up the urls > > for you. > > > > best > > Donna > > > > > > Bruce wrote: > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > I am new to Web Standards (within 6 months), but learn from this list > daily > > > and appreciate it. > > > > > > I have a three column site using fixed positioning. In Internet > explorer, > > > when first entering the site, some of the text is at the top where it > > > shouldn't be. If I refresh the page or use the scrollbars it comes ok. > In > > > Firefox page seems fine... > > > > > > What would cause this? I Have no clue even how to do a search on this > one. > > > http://www.bkdesign.ca > > > > > > Thanks > > > Bruce Prochnau > > > > > > ** > > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > ** > > > > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text messes up in Internet Explorer - newbie
Thank you for answering Donna, Validator says 1 error, and it's a h2 tag in a post. I also have a 3 pixel gap below banner image that's driving me nuts. body, img, banner, padding and margins set to 0 Standards are great, and I know there is a learning curve, but when one is trying to exist and make a living, dozens of hours spent over "little things" make one want to give up and use tables or something. Seriously. Just frustrated I guess... Bruce Donna Jones wrote: > hi Bruce: There are some errors in your html that may be causing it. > Validate your code and then see what's happening. if you don't have > firefox installed with its webdev extension you probably should and > that's maybe the easiest way to get to the validator. if you need more > help with that ask and i, or someone, would be happy to look up the urls > for you. > > best > Donna > > > Bruce wrote: > > > Hi all. > > > > I am new to Web Standards (within 6 months), but learn from this list daily > > and appreciate it. > > > > I have a three column site using fixed positioning. In Internet explorer, > > when first entering the site, some of the text is at the top where it > > shouldn't be. If I refresh the page or use the scrollbars it comes ok. In > > Firefox page seems fine... > > > > What would cause this? I Have no clue even how to do a search on this one. > > http://www.bkdesign.ca > > > > Thanks > > Bruce Prochnau > > > > ** > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > > ** > > > > > > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Text messes up in Internet Explorer - newbie
Hi all. I am new to Web Standards (within 6 months), but learn from this list daily and appreciate it. I have a three column site using fixed positioning. In Internet explorer, when first entering the site, some of the text is at the top where it shouldn't be. If I refresh the page or use the scrollbars it comes ok. In Firefox page seems fine... What would cause this? I Have no clue even how to do a search on this one. http://www.bkdesign.ca Thanks Bruce Prochnau ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
David Laakso wrote: >Major Tom says, neither: >"Major Tom took his protein pill and put his helmet on..." /> >(but then what does he know...?) This is ground control to Major Tomhuh? On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 16:06:04 1000, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: > > WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST > > > If you have suddenly been thrown into digest mode and don't know why, it's > because your address was bouncing for at least 5 posts. > > To revert to a standard subscription, please log into the website - > http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/ - and select "Edit your login details > and mail list subscriptions" from the members home page and change the > selection to"Full WSG list". You can change your subscription at any time > and you can now select a different email address for WSG and WSGCMS list > posts. You can also suspend email from these lists. > > To unsubscribe entirely and leave the group, please log into the website and > select Unsubscribe from the members home page. > > You can reach Russ and Peter the list managers at info@webboy.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific than "WSG Digest" > > There are some problems with the Digest version. Our apologies for this. It > is the way that SmarterMail handles it so that HTML email and attachments > are not put into the digest as source code. We are STILL talking with the > software developers about this. > > > > -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] image height and width question which is better CSS or inline
I have a question about which is the better way to approach adding a
height width to an image for accessibilty/standards.
or
and in the CSS have:
.thisimage{
height:25px;
width:45px;
}
or is either one o.k?
TIA
--
::Bruce::
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] problems with aligning of thumbnails
I am *trying* to get my thumbnail images to align center to their
respective backgrounds and also to change border color on mouseover
and I am not able to accomplish either one at the moment.
The page in question is http://inspired-evolution.com/Graphics.php
and CSS can be found at http://inspired-evolution.com/Gilbert.css
pertinent CSS is:
dl.gallery
{
border: 1px solid #33;
background-color: #b0c4de;
width: 175px;
float:left;
text-align:center;
margin-left:3em;
}
.gallery dt { font-weight: bold; font-color:#66;padding:0; margin:0}
.gallery dt img
{
border: 1px solid #66;
width: 144px;
height: 144px;
}
.gallery dt img.ams
{
border: 1px solid #66;
width: 144px;
height: 79px;
}
.gallery dt img a:link
{
border: 1px solid #66;
}
.gallery dt img a:visited
{
border: 1px solid #66;
}
.gallery dt img a:hover
{
border: 2px solid #33;
}
.gallery dt img a:active
{
border: 1px solid #33;
}
.gallery dd
{
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
any assistance is greatly appreciative!
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] Mac IE hack and CSS validation
Hello,
I have a couple of lines in my CSS targeting mac IE with:
*html>body #wrapper_inner{ width:750px; background-color:#036;
padding:0; margin:0; }
the * causes to CSS to not validate due to a parsing error. Is there
any way around this??
TIA!
--
::Bruce::
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] IE and linux
Hi I use IE (and word, excel etc) in Linux using CodeWeavers http://www.codeweavers.com/ CrossOver Office Product http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxoffice/ It is commercial and I believe it's based on WINE. Cheers Bruce On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 05:09, Alan Trick wrote: > Hi, > My computer had windows and linux on it, but like to do most of my work > in linux. This is a bit of a problem when it comes to making my css work > for the browser we all know and hate, IE. Lately I've been doing > everying in linux and then copying it over to Windows (cause windows > can't read linux drives) and making a custom css file for IE. However, > this is quite a pain, esspecially if I get a good idea while doing this > and want to change something else then I have 2 versions to worry about. > > I tried googling it but I didn't get any luck. Does anyone here know if > it's possible using WINE or something? Are there and HOWTO's around? > > Thanks, > Alan Trick > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a MIDI
A 10 second look without assumptions would show it is neither hype NOR a plugin. It runs on the server and does what it says it does. Main point being, there are programs that add audio and video without having to do complex code or have visitors download or start a separate application. Perhaps that is too easy and simple. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions Bert Doorn wrote: > Marketing hype, and yet another plug-in to download. > > I haven't tried adding a MIDI file to a site for a long time (not > since I was a hobbyist) but in theory you should be able to use > the object element for it. Give it a type="audio/midi" and see > what happens. > > Regards > -- > Bert Doorn, Better Web Design > http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ > Fast-loading, user-friendly websites > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a MIDI
I believe it is relevant. Wimpy player, http://www.wimpyplayer.com/products/wimpy_mp3.html Quote: With Wimpy, visitors won't have to click and guess. There's no need to futz with an external program like Quitcktime, Windows Media or Real. Wimpy is based on the Macromedia Flash plugin, which is standard issue for internet users -- so visitors won't have to install anything. I use it and find it totally awesome. Instant music, full control, gives visitors a choice and no wait. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: "Angus at InfoForce Services" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WSG List" Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 1:53 AM Subject: [WSG] Playing a MIDI > I think this is on topic. If not please reply privately. I have a MIDI file > that starts playing when a web page loads. I was toying with the idea that > the visiter could turn the MIDI file on or off at will. I dumped the idea > mainly due to time constraints. I also chose MIDI because WAV and/MP3 would > take to long to download. Is this talk about Flash relevant to my situation? > > Angus MacKinnon > MacKinnon Crest Saying > Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat > English - Fortune Assists The Daring > Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm > Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. 2nd Vice president > Choroideremia Research Foundation Canada Inc. 1st Vice President > http://www.choroideremia.org > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] trouble with extra width in IE PC
Hello, I am having a devil of a time trying to fix a problem with page not aligning correctly width wise in IE on the PC. If you are on IE on the PC and go to http://www.inspired-evolution.com/Hireme.php you will see what I mean. The dark blue area to the right of 'hire me' has extra padding or something wich make it extend on the right beyond the header and top navigation. If someone could take a look at the CSS and let me know of any solutions, I would be appreciative. CSS is http://www.inspired-evolution.com/Gilbert.css. -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Survey of Accessible Websites in New Zealand and Australia
Dear List, I am working on a survey of accessible websites in New Zealand and Australia. If you are particularly proud of an accessible website that you have developed or know of a site that should be included in the survey, please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include the URL for the site, the level of accessibility achieved and the designer contact details. Once I have collated the information and written it up I will publish the report to the WSG list. Thank you, Bruce Aylward W 3 A Limited http://www.w3a.co.nz Mobile: +64 (0)27 224 3617 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] valid javascript code
Hello, I just tried to validate a page against an XHTML strict DTD with javascript code and received these errors: there is no attribute "language" required attribute "type" not specified I am calling the JS code externally and thought it was correct. the syntax in question is: what am I doing wrong?? TIA -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] site check w3planet.info
Jad wrote, Hi I have made some changes to W3 planet, would you please check it http://www.w3planet.info/site/ and give me your feedback ** It is a very interesting site and a well put together package of standards related information. All my favorites in one place is great to see and could be a good reference place to send clients. An "About" page would be nice. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions Regards ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
FW: [WSG] IE's driving me crazy
Hi Wayne, The problem you face in IE is that its box model is slightly differently implemented than the other browsers. In your case it means that the spotlight box on the left is larger than you expect it to be and it pushes the hubs div down. Change the hubs CSS file to use 90% width for the div and make the table 510px wide. This worked for me. Kind regards, Bruce Aylward W 3 A Limited http://www.w3a.co.nz Tel: +64 (0)4 562 7904 Mobile: +64 (0)27 224 3617 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne Godfrey Sent: 14 June 2005 11:59 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] IE's driving me crazy For some unknown reason IE Win is bent on driving me crazy (I'm sure it's all the nice things I've said). The file listed below works in Safari, FF, Opera and even IE on Mac as well as FF on Win. The CSS validates as does the XHTML, but on IE Win there is a huge space between my and the table below it. Now, I really stink at tables, but this one needs to be, so I'm not sure if it's my lousy table code or something else. I also have two other pages that have similar tables that are doing the same thing. Any help will be greatly appreciated as I'm about blind and out of answers on my end! The file: http://vtest.jrations.com/hubs-n-such.php The CSS: http://www.jrations.com/css/main_test.css http://www.jrations.com/css/hubs.css The second CSS file controls the table on this page. Thanks in advance, w Wayne Godfrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 08/06/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 08/06/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 08/06/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] not sure why I am getting errors in CSS file
Can someone do me a favor and run my CSS through the CSS validator at w3c.org and see if they can determine what the errors mean and what needs be sone to correct? I am not sure why I am getting about 7 errors in my CSS file. I'm working only in a text editing program and not a good CSS editor, so I may be doing something stupid that I can't see at first glance. Anyway the CSS is located at http://www.inspired-evolution.com/Gilbert.css TIA! -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] information architecture
can someone give me a good explanation on what information acrhitecture is as it relates to web standards? I seen the word(s) used a lot lately. thanks, -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] style sheet set up
is there any "standard" way to set up the flow of a style sheet? I usually try and use just one style sheet and start with global elements such as body, p, table, li etc. followed by elements as they flow on a page from header to footer. I use one stylesheet even though with a large site, this can become quite large. Looking for suggestions/thoughts on what others do such as multiple stylesheets vs. one big one, layout of styles, etc. thanks in advance, -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] why doesn't this validate with w3c.org and what to do about it
I have some comments within my CSS to let me or anyone else know what
is controlling what
eg:
/*aligns list in middle of page*/
p.middle{test-align:center}
validation doesn't like this.is there a fix? or should I just ignore???
TIA
--
::Bruce::
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
I'm no expert, but the following is the best explanation I've come across: http://nemesis1.f2o.org/aarchive?id=11 Hope it helps. Bruce Prochnau BKSesign Solutions - Original Message - From: "David Laakso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment > On Wed, 25 May 2005 10:51:14 -0400, Scott Reston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > I've created a pared down example to illustrate a problem I'm having > > with floats. My confusion suggests that I'm missing some basic concept > > of how floats behave and I'm finding it frustrating... > > http://www.capstrat.com/development/test-float.html > Make #content first in the source order: > > > > pull-quote > > consequat. > > > sideba > > > sidebar > > > Float #content left, add width to .pullquote, & height to #wrapper. > Best, David Laakso > > -- > http://www.dlaakso.com/ > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] best way to approach markup of an address
for an address, which way is best 1st line 2nd line 3rd line or 1st line 2nd line 3rd line TIA! -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] very frustrated
This may help: Transparent custom corners and borders "Rounded corners, no extra markup, script required. Now that weʼre finally embracing JavaScript, all those complicated markup kludges are a thing of the past." http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200505/transparent_custom_corners_and_borders/ On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 14:27, Kvnmcwebn wrote: > Hello, > > I had spend a lot of time building a site with pure css and used a container > template based on the custom corners method from ala. I got a lot of help > here and i was happy with the design and at the ease of udating a site > where the content is separated from the design. So today i sent my front end > code to the asp programmer to tie into our dynamically driven content > database. Contrary to what he had be telling me previously - He basically > said that he cant mark up the css layout because its to complicated and will > have to rebuild a large portion of it with tables. Im disgusted but i have > to live with it. > just needed some place to rant about this. > > > Just curious-Does anyone here do asp and if so would using the ala custom > corners method for a basic wrapper/template be very difficult to convert > over to asp? > > > http://www.alistapart.com/articles/customcorners/ > > -kvnmcwebn > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
I'll tell you a little secret. A popup on entering, and then every link in site had a popup ad, and another when closed. It isn't a site I would even consider looking at. Probably applies to most people, as we have all gotten tired of such methods. Bruce Prochnau - Original Message - From: "Tom Hamshere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 7:28 AM Subject: [WSG] Site check I know it's not perfect (particularly that there are priority 2 accessibility issues), but could people please take a look at http://www.lastminute.com Any feedback appreciated. Thanks, Tom Hamshere ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Please review http://www.mad4f1.com
On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 21:36, Pixel n Paints wrote: > Hi guys, > > I am freelancer from INDIA... I have designed a website > http://www.mad4f1.com for one of my client … CSS JS & HTML with NO > TABLE tags… to make it more search engine friendly... > > I tried to make it ... cross browser compatible > But I am facing problem with footer in IE.. > a DIV TAG with Class= footer gets overlaid.… not always but sometimes. One thing from an accessibility POV is that the menu is a bunch of links. These are better off being in an unordered list. Also use have a lot of styles in the HTML. It;s easier from a maintenance POV to have these in an external file > > Need suggestions, feedback… -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] validator error in stylesheet
In TWiki we have "empty.css". It has /**/ in it. It gives the error: Errors CSS Line: 34 Uncaught error java.lang.Exception: Import loop detected in http://www.bkdesign.ca/pub4/TWiki/PatternSkin/empty.css It's a placeholder for user styles or something. What is better? Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and escaped quotes
On Thu, 2005-04-14 at 15:17, John Horner wrote: > Following up on my own post, but I neglected to say, the apostrophe > could be escaped, just for JavaScript purposes, like this: > > 'Don\'t Look Now' > > but this text is coming out of a CMS, and the same string needs to be > used both on the page and in the JavaScript. Set the text in a var then use that var in the onclick var msg="Don't Look Now"; Don't Look Now var msg="Don't Stop Now"; Don't Stop Now > > "Have You Validated Your Code?" > John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 3488 > Senior Developer, ABC Online http://www.abc.net.au/ > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web standards as a selling point?
I think this is an interesting point. We moved to using CSS based layouts almost 2 years ago now. At first it was a struggle to get the designers to break out of using spacer GIFs and tables, 6 months in and they couldn't face going back to work on table based sites. We have found that the use of CSS layouts means we can apply designs in much less time than we were able to with table based ones. We are able to produce a better product in less time, changes to the design are much easier, clients and designers are happier :) In terms of using it as a selling point, you are right, most clients don't care (or more likely are not aware of the benefits). Perhaps you should look on it as client education as opposed to a selling point? Cheers Bruce On Tue, 2005-04-12 at 15:39, tee wrote: > Hi, I'd been doing web design on the side since last year. I believe in web > standards, but I am not sure about potential clients who want to pay me do > the job will believe it. For us who believed in web standards, it all sounds > very beautiful and convincing, but for companies who provides services, they > want web sites, they want their web sites looks nice and professional and > they want it to be affordable. They simply want to know how much it will > cost right, nothing behind the scene will interest them. > > What is the incentive for us to tell potential clients that web standards is > important and how many people in this group successfully using web standards > as selling point for their web design service. Do you increase your ballpark > as a result? > > In my web design site, I do brag about web standards and that I care, but > when I talk to potential clients (so far only two), I didn't even mention > it; they didn't ask either even though they have visited my site. To me, web > standards is something I believe in, but I do not see any benefit when > approaching potential clients. > > > tee > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] email client css suport
On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 10:27, Martin Baylis wrote: > That entirely depends on what email clients you need to support. > > Outlook express, Thunderbird , Outlook 2000 and above, Entourage all have > fairly good html / css support (even some positioning) > > Hotmail, yahoo, and most web mails tend to strip so u need to use > inline styles (D'oh) > > Older Eudora, Lotus Notes (especially < ver 4), Older Outlook its fairly > basic at best (eg use as well as css) > > AOL, webTV - test and PRAY. > > Martin > > Ps there is heaps of info out on the web on this. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=StyleInEmail -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Problem with Rounded table
Salmaan, Khwaja wrote: Hi people, I would like to post a question as to how to make a table with the following characteristics. 1. The top (Left and Right) corners should be rounded. 2. The bottom left and right corners should be squared. 3. The table should have a header () area of the table with some background color, say, Blue. 4. The element might have bulleted contents in terms of nested tables. The background of the contents should be a color, different than header, say WHITE. 5. There should be a border around the whole table matching the table header background (in this case, BLUE). 1> A saber saw and a compas. 2> A good skill saw and a straight edge. 3>Paint the end blue, use a spray can. 4> A smaller white table with shorter legs would slide under. 5> Some blue electricians tape would work. A can of blue spray paint and a table saw should do it, then make another table with shorter legs to go under it, Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Ontario, Canada ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] A little help with tab index and accesskeys
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 10:45, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: > Kim Kruse wrote: > > Should accesskeys not only be used for "important" > > links... like accesskeys page, sitemap etc? > > I'd say yes to that one. Otherwise you end up with a jungle of > accesskeys, which are then hard to memorise and will most likely > conflict (if you move beyond numbers into letters) with other shortcut > keys on the system and/or assistive technology used. In terms of access keys are there standard keys (commonly used) for Home, sitemap etc? TIA Bruce -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] css markup for a list with a list
I have an unorganized sublist with a organized list and it's
not picking up my CSS. Sorry I don't have a link to the page I can
display, but was hoping someone could assist based upon my code.
(x) html:
first list item
2nd list item
3rd list item:
first sublist item for 3rd list item
2nd sublist item for 3rd list item
4th list item
1st sublist item for 4th list item
2nd sublist item for 4th list item
CSS:
.content ol li ul li {
margin: 0 0 0 25px;
list-style-type: none;
font-size: 100%;
color: #f00;
}
I have a font size of 100.01% set up in the body tag.
my sublist is displaying really tiny and with bullets (should be no bullets)
any help is greatly appreciated!
--
::Bruce::
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Form field validation query
tags don't have a value attribute. You will need to add a selected attribute to the child tags. On Wed, 2005-02-16 at 16:43, Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote: > Hi Folks > > Have a validation error (this link over *two* lines): > <http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/validate.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xert.org%2F&warnings=yes&spider= > yes&hidevalid=yes> > > on this page of my site: > <http://www.xert.org/contact/index.php?formtype=personal&submit=Display+Form> > > I am using php to check user input and therefore require a "value" in the > form fields (eg > value=""). Obviously, $newDate has a null value until a > user enters one. > > So I get the following error: > "Error: there is no attribute value for this element (in this HTML version)" > > Can anyone suggest a work around to this, or perhaps suggest what I'm doing > wrong. > > Thanks in advance, and hope this is on topic. > Sarah :) -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 may ship ahead of Longhorn
On Wed, 2005-02-16 at 10:03, John Allsopp wrote: > Chris, > > > http://news.com.com/Reversal+Next+IE+update+divorced+from+Windows/2100-1032_3-5577263.html > > Good news for web standards? > > > Being the eternal naysayer that I am, I'll say, um, nay. > > Why? > > From the article linked, this quote from a ms spokesperson > > Microsoft's Nash declined to shed anylight on the question of features > in the IE update, restricting hiscomments to planned security > enhancements such as better defensesagainst phishing scams and > improved spyware protection. > "Right now, the focus is security," Nash said. "There may be > otherthings that are in there, but the goal is on security." > > IE 6 buggy rendering engine it is then. > Sigh Maybe this is a blessing in disguise At least at this time point in time the quirks in IE are well documented and can be handled. Who knows what new bugs^H^H^H^H interpretations of the standards IE7 would introduce. Also it should be noted that IE7 will only be for Longhorn and XP SP2. Older IE browsers will be with us for a while yetor more people will move to alternatives. -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Irony
Andy Budd wrote: And there was me thinking it was only the Americans who weren't supposed to get irony. Oh dear. Gosh! I always thought that "irony" was something the wife got when doing a lot of laundry... My apologies. Bruce bkdesign Canada ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] cover me -- I'm gonna be naughty!
It was said: I've an idea. Quite a few people run personal sites that allow people to leave comments. You could create a script that automatically leaves comments on their site along with a link. That way you'd inherit some of their Google juice. Another method would be to send lots of emails to random people. If you send enough you are bound to find somebody interested in your products. I mean, if you need to be competitive you should really explore all the options. ** I thought I was joining a Webstandards list. As a developer working with weblogs, the major problem is comments being abused. It is a very serious issue which should be against the law. Seriously. People using comments are being abused by spammer scum which ruins their online experience to a large degree. I don't care if this is off topic, or if I am deleted from this list. Seeing this kind of stuff encouraging comment spam deeply offends me. I would like to see spammers jailed. Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca Canada ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] NVU IDE
On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:46, John Horner wrote: > Sometimes I think I'm the only person left who reads titles... I come > across sites every day which have meaningless and/or identical > titles, useless as bookmarks or in browser History lists, let alone > in search results. I think you have hit the nail on the head, even if people don't read titles while actually browsing a site, it's the search engine results where it really matters. > Part of any site review should be checking that each page has a title > which is both meaningful and unique. Even better, use a CMS/templating system that enforces this. -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] need explanation on this css element please
Can someone explain exactly what using * in front of something does such as
*html li {padding:0;margin:0;}
also, I noticed this doesn't validate by w3c, but I see it a lot
--
::Bruce::
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] how to mark up header for list
I don't think w3c standards will allow mark-up this way, so I was wondering the best way to mark up a header for a list. looking for standards, and accessibility. what I currently have is: Most Requested thanks -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] moving elements
Paul wrote: If a user increases or decreases the text size on the page, how do I ensure elements maintain their spacing ? ex. http://www.speakupnow.ca/4Life/english/test.php , I want the menu graphic ( 4 red points ) to move downward if the text size is increased. Thanks Good question, I have been working with that myself. Would pixels for spacing work? I am still a tad new here, but considering using fixed sizes for spacing, margins, headings etc... Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca Ontario ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] .php extension
Paul wrote: I have a template that I have created and am creating all my pages from that. I have named this file x.html but when I try and rename it to x.php, because I have some dynamic content on it, nothing displays. Any ideas why this happens ? Paul This may sound dumb, but I switched to php a few times, if you don't delete the old html file the browser will pick that up instead. But I'm sure you thought of that :-) Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Re: [WD]: Techniques for Search Engine Optimization [SEO]
Christoph Herrmann wrote: Well, many blogs are! I am just writing an article about blogs and how they can be used to create search engine friendly content. Think about it: And yes, I have successfully built sites this way and they are at the very top of Google rankings for their targeted keywords. Without redundant information, without duplicating content and without spamming. Just lots of hard work. But no, it won't apply for everyone type of site and every single site out there. And no, I don't agree 100% with all of it, but the general technique is not bad, it's not unethical and it doesn't have to be spammy or low quality. Just my $.02 :) Chris I have been over the past year doing a lot of work redesigning Movable Type to be more suitable for any site. When you know it well, it has unlimited posibilities. I also find most of my articles rank on the first page at google. Between content, sensible layout of content and the software design it ranks very high. Bruce www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Re: [WD]: Re: How Do I Learn to do Website Design?
Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote: "Unfortunately, I can't recommend any sites or books at this time -- I don't have many beginner sites bookmarked, and my beginner books are all quite old at this point! ..." One of the best sites I have seen is W3Schools, they have a lot of tutorials and working demos that you can change code on the left and see the results on the right. http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] javascript
I have altered the code in a Movable Type site to allow using a different script for photo pop ups. Changed the default code fine, everything works...except...I coded it to include the alt="title" in the thumb code which it didn't do before. Only problem is that I now get alt="images/daggarlake.jpg", which is a major accomplishment for me...lol. Can anyone point me towards a place that gives some idea of the code to remove the jpg and /images? I have searched all over, and am starting to study it a lot more...but need to fix this in the meantime Thanks Bruce www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help - newbie
Chris Stratford wrote: Wow,wow,wow slow down Alan, ... I LOVE TSW WebCoder. Built in FTP is Excellent! Built in Project Manager - with Status reports, To Do Lists, Full Project Upload Built in Server Mapping. Preview in IE and Mozilla - only for HTML coding, or if your server mapping... HTML Tidy is built in... Built in HTML/CSS Validator - on the fly validators... Own Scripting Engine, to build your own UI or just functions... Reading the above I decided it wouldn't kill me to try this out. Normally I use an editor just to have clear code highlighted, but this one is terrific. I especially like the download/edit/upload. A great timesaver for sure, and I haven't checked out all of it yet. Thank you Chris, you have made my work easier. That's what the group excels at, helping each other :-) Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Re: [WD]: How Do I Learn to do Website Design?
I was just at dreamweaver website. Templates. No doctype, tables, imagemaps and javascript. God forbid. Randomly choosing four of them and viewing source showed me quite enough. Lets go backwards??? Font face font size the whole works of what we are trying to get rid of. Someone new would be wasting their time using on of these, and would learn nothing that wouldn't have to be unlearned. Learn the basics maually. Always always always Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca Joy Bower wrote: > Get a copy of Dreamweaver or GoLive (I use Dreamweaver). I disagree. Either of these programs is a lot of $ for someone just starting out, not to mention pretty complex with a lot of stuff a beginner doesn't need. There are a number of HTML programs that are low or no cost you can try. At the start, what you want to do is look at the code and find out what each tag does. I did this by getting a cheap wysiwyg html editor and the putting stuff in - look at the code and look at the page on line - take it out or change it, see what happens. Once you have a good understanding of what each tag does, you can move on to a more complex editor as needed. That's a good way to do it, too. But for someone who is a print designe and must have been using a page layout program like Quark or InDesign, the interface of DW or GL is recognizable. Also, they work on a visual design metaphor as opposed to a programming metaphor. In my experience, getting the tools that work best for your particular needs will offset the initial cost. Then later, when she's got some sites under her belt, she can tackle the programming head on. I'm not saying this WILL work best for her, not knowing her personally. But, as a print designer turned web designer, I think this option MAY work very well for her. So, no argument with your suggestion. Just another option for her to choose from. +--+ more info about webdesign-l: http://webdesign-L.com/ to unsubscribe: http://webdesign-L.com/subscribe.html (updated!) list policies: http://webdesign-L.com/policies/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help - newbie
I have always recommended not using an editor, learn it manually, then perhaps use one for shortcuts. Reliance on html editors and such isn't a good idea. That will go a long way toward learning on your own, without being limited by some software. Notetab or notepad is fine. Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca Ontario David Laakso wrote: On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:05:03 -0330, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have been writing html code for awhile now and and starting to realize how inaccessible and non-web compliant my pages are. I have always hand written code in Edit Plus 2, is there a better editor I can use for web standards ( like Dreamweaver MX ? ) and where should I start for tips on accessibility and standards compliance. Thanks for any help. Paul With regard to editors, you may find this link helpful. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssEditors David ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] problems fitting content in third column in IE win
I was hoping someone could look at a test page I am workin on located at: http://www.echs.dpsnc.net/testing/html/public_affairs.htm. the problem I am having is in IE Win, the text in the third column (on the right) is not fitting inside the column borders. I originally tested using firefox, so I got the text to fit perfectly with that browser and any extra padding or margin I add to help out with IE will push things too far over to the right in the mozilla browsers. Starting to get my predicament? It's driving me batty! Any hints, suggestions or solutions would be greatly appreciated. the CSS can be found at http://www.echs.dpsnc.net/testing/css/DPS_top_level.css TIA -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE and background image
Bert Doorn wrote:
not in ie. Anyone know? I can't give the url right now as it is
totaledlate here
.twikiLeftBar {background-image: url(/miner2.jpg); background-repeat:
no-repeat;
border-top:1px solid #ddd;
color:#800;
overflow:hidden;
line-height:1.3em;
}
I did get it working in both. Had it in ie and NOT in firefox til I got
a workaround.
didn't need the overflow:hidden, and put this in the head of doc:
.twikiLeftBar {background-image:
url("/miners2.jpg");background-repeat:no-repeat;
margin:0;
padding:0;
line-height:1.3em;}
works in both now...need to learn a lot here, did a lot of searching
but...o'well
Bruce Prochnau
Hard to tell from this code snippet as there may be elements inside
this "box" and rules that affect it. At a guess, adding a width
and/or height might help, especially if there's floated elements
inside the "box".
Regards
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] IE and background image
I must be tired. I can't see why this displays correctly in firebox but
not in ie. Anyone know? I can't give the url right now as it is
totaledlate here
.twikiLeftBar {background-image: url(/miner2.jpg); background-repeat:
no-repeat;
border-top:1px solid #ddd;
color:#800;
overflow:hidden;
line-height:1.3em;
}
Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] styling ordered and unordered lists
Yes, the background image is related to li
remove image from .mainleft li and add
.mainleft ul li {image info)
Bruce
www.bkdesign.ca
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi
I am trying to have an unordered list that is styled nicely with an arrow
graphic, however now I get the arrow graphic in my ordered list as well.
Could someone please have a look here:
http://learnline.cdu.edu.au/wip/css/liststest.html
and give me an idea of what I can do to get around this. The lists are
contained within a class called main left - assuming that this will
eventually become the left column.
Thanks very much
***
Helen Rysavy
Web Designer, Teaching & Learning Development
Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909
Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cdu.edu.au
CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
***
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: ADMIN - thread closed Re: [WSG] Web Standards Developer Job
Subject: ADMIN - thread closed Re: [WSG] Web Standards Developer Job My apologies to the group Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Standards Developer Job
reply where? bruce www.bkdesign.ca Daniel Hamilton wrote: Hi, The company I work for (www-au.Computershare.com) is hiring another Web developer to work along side of me. The core skills we are looking for: · Web standards based approach to web development, specifically XHTML, CSS · XML / XLST · Strong ASP (VBscript) and nice to have ASP.NET (VB.NET) · JavaScript, DHTML · Working Knowledge of W3C Accessibility guidelines and best practices · Must be able to work as part of a large team (around 40 devs in Sydney, and around 10 in rest of world) · Knowledge of Object Oriented concepts Computershare is a great company to work for. The work environment is casual – no suit / tie necessary but if that’s your thing then that’s fine too. We are currently moving the code base to VB.net from a VBscript based asp. Salary is between 65 – 73 k + super for the right candidate. If you are interested please contact me and I can give you some more details. Cheers Dan. **===*** **Daniel Hamilton** **Web Developer** **Computershare Technology Services** **+ 61 2 8234 5058*** --- This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email immediately. Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy any copies immediately. Computershare Limited and its subsidiaries do not accept liability for the views expressed in the email or for the consequences of any computer viruses that may be transmitted with this email. This email is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written consent of the copyright owner. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards
A List Apart, size matters: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sizematters/ An excellent writeup on the matter, among a few others at the site.. Bruce www.bkdesign.ca Marilyn Langfeld wrote: I agree with Patrick here. My only concern is with those web designers on IE/WIN, if avoiding px, who make type that will display much too small on other platforms/browsers. And the converse for me, now that I'm redesigning my site using % type ( http://www.langfeldesigns.com/test/index.html ). I've got to make the type a bit small so it doesn't display huge on IE. Not at all an insurmountable problem, but one more thing to learn to do. Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 7, 2005, at 8:13 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: So we may as well end up spending time and money to implement something what is never used. How much time and money does it cost to avoid using px (which does cause real world problems in the erroneous implementation of IE/Win, and therefore calls for an interim solution in the spirit of WCAG 1.0 guideline 10) in favour of ems? Sure, if you're not too hot on CSS, making use of the cascade to avoid inheritance issues, or if you're still stuck with "pixel perfect" design, then sure it's a problem...but please let's not blow this out of proportion. Saying that the percentage of users who need it is minimal, and that those users should really change their settings to ensure they can use your site, is not really a valid set of arguments, imho. What I see as a biggest overestimation is the idea that user _wants_ to control something on your page. No! User wants content of your page. Which is a bugger if they then can't read it, because the designer decided that he/she prefers an illegible, but cool looking, pixel size. Or functionality of your application. Or whatever. And d) is very important here: users are much more comfortable with hitting "back" button than in setting font-sizes. So if you committed a sin of infamous font-size-too-small and it is small bellow acceptable level, I'd say there will be one visitor going somewhere else, than one visitor adjusting font-size. But that's an assumption too. Exactly, it's one assumption against another. Having worked directly with users with various levels of visual impairment, however, I can tell you that those who need font sizing are well aware of how to do it. Yes, they're also aware that there are advanced options that lets them completely ignore a site's chosen font size, but they don't see the need to enable them if the author is considerate enough not to stop them from simply bumping up the text size a notch if needed. And for these users in the know, a quick CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL UP/DOWN is a lot less of a hassle to do on a per-site basis than digging through accessibility options and disabling things for *all* sites (even the ones that show a minimal amount of consideration). Don't use pixels. Don't yell, if someone uses. ...but gently remind them that there is another way which can eliminate the possibility of problems for certain users with minimal effort. -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards
I was just working on that last night, firefox and ie displaying fonts different. Ended up cutting back on too many different font sizes in stylesheet, then went "small" on body tag, and % on a couple others... Ended up working good. I found just using em and % to some extent difficult Bruce www.bkdesign.ca Marilyn Langfeld wrote: I agree with Patrick here. My only concern is with those web designers on IE/WIN, if avoiding px, who make type that will display much too small on other platforms/browsers. And the converse for me, now that I'm redesigning my site using % type ( http://www.langfeldesigns.com/test/index.html ). I've got to make the type a bit small so it doesn't display huge on IE. Not at all an insurmountable problem, but one more thing to learn to do. Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 7, 2005, at 8:13 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: So we may as well end up spending time and money to implement something what is never used. How much time and money does it cost to avoid using px (which does cause real world problems in the erroneous implementation of IE/Win, and therefore calls for an interim solution in the spirit of WCAG 1.0 guideline 10) in favour of ems? Sure, if you're not too hot on CSS, making use of the cascade to avoid inheritance issues, or if you're still stuck with "pixel perfect" design, then sure it's a problem...but please let's not blow this out of proportion. Saying that the percentage of users who need it is minimal, and that those users should really change their settings to ensure they can use your site, is not really a valid set of arguments, imho. What I see as a biggest overestimation is the idea that user _wants_ to control something on your page. No! User wants content of your page. Which is a bugger if they then can't read it, because the designer decided that he/she prefers an illegible, but cool looking, pixel size. Or functionality of your application. Or whatever. And d) is very important here: users are much more comfortable with hitting "back" button than in setting font-sizes. So if you committed a sin of infamous font-size-too-small and it is small bellow acceptable level, I'd say there will be one visitor going somewhere else, than one visitor adjusting font-size. But that's an assumption too. Exactly, it's one assumption against another. Having worked directly with users with various levels of visual impairment, however, I can tell you that those who need font sizing are well aware of how to do it. Yes, they're also aware that there are advanced options that lets them completely ignore a site's chosen font size, but they don't see the need to enable them if the author is considerate enough not to stop them from simply bumping up the text size a notch if needed. And for these users in the know, a quick CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL UP/DOWN is a lot less of a hassle to do on a per-site basis than digging through accessibility options and disabling things for *all* sites (even the ones that show a minimal amount of consideration). Don't use pixels. Don't yell, if someone uses. ...but gently remind them that there is another way which can eliminate the possibility of problems for certain users with minimal effort. -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards
That was my point. Not that I was dumb or anything, but lots of us don't know some things. Including those with eyesite difficulties, and that a site guide would be nice. If I could miss that, many others have also. Bruce Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Amazing! I have been online and studying for 10 years, and guess what? I didn't know this... I guess I have nothing to add here. This would be insightful if Bruce was a user that actually needed/relied on resizable fonts. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Quote: And for these users in the know, a quick CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL UP/DOWN is a lot less of a hassle to do on a per-site basis than digging through accessibility options and disabling things for *all* sites (even the ones that show a minimal amount of consideration). Amazing! I have been online and studying for 10 years, and guess what? I didn't know this... amazed here. Will add this to my accessibility statement onsite...forever learning. Actually, to have standards is good, informing users what they are and giving tips to visitors to a site is also good. Forever learning, Bruce ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] fonts
Some time back I used to add a font sizer to my site as a trial. Font + - Perhaps it isn't a bad idea. I used to have that specifically for the article text, and scaled down for menus. Then I could go back to using fixed fonts, and if someone cannot read 12px text-make it bigger at a click from the page instead of having the hassle of changing it in ie. What's wrong with that really? Bruce www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards
To quote part of what I posted from G8 web: "This is an accessibility issue that we are aware of and hope to be able to address in the near future. " I really don't think this is an important matter that would need permission to post anywhere. It isn't a secret. Perhaps I am out of line here, but the purpose was only to show the wide ranging awareness of accessibility issues, and an item of general interest. That there was an issue, perhaps a small one according to some, that a government website had a small problem, but were aware of it and are going to address it. It was nice that they responded...etc. Why they haven't is beyond me, but then so are a lot of things...It certainly got some interesting feedback, whereby everyone gains perhaps? Various opinions on font-size here naturally...I 'sometimes' use Internet Explorer, as many do, so fixed fonts can be important if you have poor vision and are used to a certain way of enlargening them. I believe that issue is mostly settled...I'm an amature here, but I switched to em, small x-small and % on my sites...and that's just fine "It gives me the warm fuzzies." All I know is when I went to adjust them as I normally would in ie, I couldn't. Not a big deal to me, as I have reasonably good vision, but for some...maybe it would be. Simple and basic Bruce www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] G* addressing standards
I hope I'm not out of line here, but as a webstandards group it is interesting that a simple matter of font size is awaiting being addressed by the G8 presidency team...I included this for general interest ...but at least they are aware of it. Bruce www.bkdesign.ca Dear Bruce, Thank you for your interest in the UK G8 Presidency website and bringing to our attention that the font size cannot be changed via the browser. This is an accessibility issue that we are aware of and hope to be able to address in the near future. Regards, G8 Presidency Team -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:25 AM To: Feedback Form www.g8.gov.uk Subject: Comment from Bruce Prochnau Just a thought, but myself being a webdesigner focusing on accessability, you have fixed fonts. This means that those who have poor vision, even most older people cannot change the text size from their browser, and have difficuly reading the site, if they can even. Perhaps use small, x-small medium etc? Otherwise great! All the best from Canada ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Conditional comments
I would do something along the line of the below perhaps, recently did, but am wondering if it is a good idea?: Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca Kornel Lesinski wrote: What I wondering is, could a comment be used to feed a GIF variant of a logo to IE to replace a PNG (with alpha) that IE doesn't support? Don't double your code. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] ATO - shame shame shame...
http://www.w3.org/WAI/Policy/#Australia WAI country guide Bruce David R wrote: Chris Stratford wrote: Can I sue the ATO over this - like the SOCOG case. Deary me... The government has failed again... :) Depends on what laws the austrailian government has in place for web accessability for government sites. If this was a US or UK government site, then yes... I'm guessing austrailian legal stature is very similar. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] PC IE problem
Hope this isn't unrelated, but I would encode the email addy for spam bots. Page looks good to me, ie6 pc Bruce www.bkdesign.ca Mary Wright wrote: I've produced a simple 3-page website ... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Slightly OT... Interview with IE Dev team
heretic wrote: I was wondering if any of you have any specific questions, queries, or comments regarding the development of IE, and more specifically, IE7 which may, or may not, come with Longhorn (before... if we're lucky) I would say that as far as I am concerned the ball is in their court. What I mean by that is that on my site I basically, and very soon will even more so, highly recommend Firefox and state that ie is "out of date", and have links to Firefox and screenshots. They are going to lose, the choice is theirs because as we all know thousands are switching and increasingly so as time goes on. That is their fault entirely. As much as I don't wish to, am getting close to the point where I don't care what they do, and am not alone. Microsoft>>>join the party or get lost. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] when to post, was - asking a PC user for a page check
The below defines it nicely, thank you :-) Bruce Lea de Groot wrote: On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 23:03:51 -0500, Bruce wrote: As a new member this leaves me in a position of being hesitant to post, not wanting to bother anyone. So far I have liked the group, and both am interested in viewing the sites posted such as this one, and learn from it all. I am the type though, not to want to "bother anyone", in which case I am hesitant to post anything at all...? I'd hate to think that I am discouraging people from posting! :( I do think it is important to bear in mind that 1000 people are reading this, and the list does tend to be high volume at times. So, for myself, before I post I try to answer the following questions: - is my query on topic? - have I exhausted all my options in figuring this out on my own? This includes googling for the answer, having a good try and leaving it for a bit to see if that aha! moment will strike. If the answer to both is yes, then I post it. (I don't claim to be perfect! :)) In your case, if you'd never heard of browsercam, or anything similar, then you had, indeed, exhausted your options - how can you check on windows without a windows box? But now someone else who might have asked a similar request next week might have a quicker and simpler recourse There's an old parable about teaching a man to fish. :) Sometimes I write up a post and the process of phrasing it clearly answers it for me and I don't need to post after all - the writing of the question was enough. And some questions are valuable in their own right for the discussion they engender. Hard to pick in advance, though. ;) Don't be discouraged from posting, but do make a definite decision that it needs posting, and is in the right place :) Posting to a mailing list shouldn't be your *first* port of call with a problem. HIH Lea ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] asking a PC user for a page check
As a new member this leaves me in a position of being hesitant to post, not wanting to bother anyone. So far I have liked the group, and both am interested in viewing the sites posted such as this one, and learn from it all. I am the type though, not to want to "bother anyone", in which case I am hesitant to post anything at all...? Bruce Lea de Groot wrote: On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:23:09 -0500, Barry Cranmer wrote: If a PC user has a bit of time to spare, could you take a look and let me know what happens when viewed by software from the evil empire? I would really suggest you make use of http://browsercam.com/ (from memory - google browsercam if I'm wrong) in the first instance, rather than bother 1000 people - while most of us are happy to help, it just doesn't seem a sensible use of resources. Browsercam gives screen shots you can work from for most of the major browsers - perfect. HIH Lea ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Negative Margins
Not to answer my own question, but I just seen that setting the header 100px high would remove the necessity of making margins for the content to clear the header. Seems a better practice as well. I must be tired, lol. Is that a better way? Bruce, www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Negative Margins
I have used negative margins at various times, but I have a question I would like to throw out there. I work a lot reconfiguring Movable Type, and there can be a series of articles down a page. On my main page, I have a border around each one, but the positioning I used to have content first in the template after the heading meant that I had to set a top margin of 100px. Problem was, that carried through all the posts making them 100px apart...as the template rewrites each article from the same code, and is way too much space. I set the bottom margin to -80px to remove the space. Looks good in Firefox and Internet explorer6, and I am sure it is fine. It is just that setting margins to -80 seems kinda hacking CSS...maybe not in a good way? What do you think? Site is xhtml1.0 Transitional Bruce Prochnau, www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is sending abusive spam doing standards good or harm?
I agree, rewritten politely it would do some good, as it is now, most will trash it before reading it, so what's the point. Calling someone "brain dead" isn't very conclusive to changing them ;-) Bruce bkdesign.ca Ontario Steven Clark wrote: I've been reading my digests after a small holiday and I came across this link posted a few days ago for moronic designers to be sent. Is this really a good idea? http://members.optusnet.com.au/~night.owl/morons.html I mean I'm pro web standards etc and in all honestly I'd read the first bit and see idiot and moron and it'd hit the bin, so the writer even lost me. Effective design principles would dictate that the whole point of the page is to get the information to the target audience, but really does it? Its offensively written, rude, long and even a bit angry As far as the standards movement goes I actually think that such offensive behaviour would have to be more detrimental to the cause than good, closing minds and eyes to reason with an abusive introduction. Honestly if someone sent you a link saying you're a moron would you think its more valid than any other spam? I only mention it because it was posted with next to no comment and its really an important issue. If we want to be seen as professionals then a certain level of professionalism should apply, I'm sure that being inclusive, educational and helpful would be more to the spirit of a universal web than throwing stones. But that's only my opinion I suppose, and no more valid than that beyond the link. Food for thought. Steven Clark Norty Pig Web Development http://www.nortypig.com http://www.blog.nortypig.com _ SEEK: Now with over 60,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Shedding Holiday Pounds
I know, but it is amazing how many people browse at that still, and I kinda like it... maybe I will lol Bruce The Bo$$ wrote: If you can, you should try switching to a bigger resolution. It's much better, and you'll wonder how you ever survived using 800x600. On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:49:45 -0500, Bruce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The site is major better. Looks good, Loads fast, gives choice for movie, tells size... nice. I use windows, Firefox with an 800x600 resolution and there is a scroll bar across the bottom which I can almost get rid of using the very small text. Positives happening :-) I am liking the group, very helpful and educational, a big thanks to all! And Happy New Year Bruce bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Shedding Holiday Pounds
The site is major better. Looks good, Loads fast, gives choice for movie, tells size... nice. I use windows, Firefox with an 800x600 resolution and there is a scroll bar across the bottom which I can almost get rid of using the very small text. Positives happening :-) I am liking the group, very helpful and educational, a big thanks to all! And Happy New Year Bruce bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Shedding Holiday Pounds
I was starting to think I was in the wrong place, a tad ignored, after all, I took the time to go there and gave my opinion, glad to see someone at least agrees. Not a negative, it is just many have a slow modem, and like I said before, a lot will close a site before bothering to download and install software they either don't have or don't want. (quicktime). Mind you, I am new to this group, and in a learning time for some of the new "stuff" Bruce, www.bkdesign.ca Nick Gleitzman wrote: On 3 Jan 2005, at 12:10 PM, Chris Kennon wrote: Just relaunched for the new year, could someone look "under the hood" for fatty tissue, bloat, redundancy the works. It all validates. http://ckimedia.com A 1.2MB QT file on the home page sure qualifies as bloat to me. I didn't bother waiting for it... (56k dialup) N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Shedding Holiday Pounds
I am sure it is fine, I like the layout and background, I declined "having to install quicktime", perhaps that should be a viewers choice afterwards? Rather than required before page loads...the first thing I got was the popup to install it, which always irritates mealso I am on a 56k modem, and after a while I closed the page rather than waiting for it to load, and I hate having to add stuff I don't want jjust to to view a page. My first answer to the group, hope it's ok... Bruce www.bkdesign.ca Chris Kennon wrote: Hi, Just relaunched for the new year, could someone look "under the hood" for fatty tissue, bloat, redundancy the works. It all validates. http://ckimedia.com CK __ "Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do." ---Bruce Lee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] code 4 son of suckerfish to work on Mac IE browser
that's great, thanks!
Bruce Gilbert
Webmaster
Durham Public Schools
Durham, North Carolina
(919) 560-9118 -Office Phone
http://www.dpsnc.net
Paul Burchfield
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
m> To
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc
group.org
Subject
Re: [WSG] code 4 son of suckerfish
07/12/2004 03:05 to work on Mac IE browser
PM
Please respond to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
roup.org
Bruce,
I think this might be what you are looking for:
http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/50.php#comment17
->Paul B.
On Jul 12, 2004, at 10:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>
>
> A short while back, I believe someone posted work around code in order
> for
> the son of suckerfish drop down menu to work on a Mac IE browser. The
> code
> that should be changed was: if (window.attachEvent)
> window.attachEvent("onload", sfHover);
>
> I can't remember what exactly needed to be changed. Can someone
> refresh my
> memory?
>
> TIA
>
> Bruce Gilbert
> Webmaster
> Durham Public Schools
> Durham, North Carolina
> (919) 560-9118 -Office Phone
> http://www.dpsnc.net
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*
[WSG] code 4 son of suckerfish to work on Mac IE browser
A short while back, I believe someone posted work around code in order for
the son of suckerfish drop down menu to work on a Mac IE browser. The code
that should be changed was: if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", sfHover);
I can't remember what exactly needed to be changed. Can someone refresh my
memory?
TIA
Bruce Gilbert
Webmaster
Durham Public Schools
Durham, North Carolina
(919) 560-9118 -Office Phone
http://www.dpsnc.net
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*
[WSG] Bruce Gilbert is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 06/21/2004 and will not return until 06/23/2004. I will respond to your message when I return on Wednesday, June 23rd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] third style sheet needed?
thanks, I actually did run in through the validator once, but I guess not after adding the second style sheet. My mistake there. I'm really not lazy and don't expect others to do my work for meI'm just forgetfull :-) Bruce Gilbert Webmaster Durham Public Schools Durham, North Carolina (919) 560-9118 -Office Phone http://www.dpsnc.net Mordechai Peller <[EMAIL PROTECTED] m> To Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc group.org Subject Re: [WSG] third style sheet needed? 06/01/2004 10:33 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >the site is http://creekside.dpsnc.net and the CSS is located at >http://creekside.dpsnc.net/print.css and >http://creekside.dpsnc.net/creekside.css\ > > I take it you didn't try to validate? If you did, you probably would have found the extra quotation mark in the . That might solve your problem with the @-rule being ignored. If that doesn't solve the problem, copy and paste the links and @-rules you're using to your message. You should realize that while people here are very happy to help, they don't want it for you. By not running a page first through the validator, you're basically saying to people "I'm too lazy to do my own work; you do it for me." * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
