Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Bruce]

Why, if there are level settings for both graphical displays on the graphical 
display dialog would a level setting on the main WSJT-X dialog be necessary? It 
would be more convienent if that slider actually did adjust the audio level.

73 DE VK2RT Bruce
Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S7 edge on the Telstra Mobile Network
 Original message From: Gary McDuffie  Date: 
20/7/17  7:37 am  (GMT+10:00) To: Black Michael , WSJT 
software development  Subject: Re: 
[wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the
  audio slider 

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm...some feedback from those that still want it on the main screen would 
> be nice.

On the menu for me, Mike.

Gary - AG0N
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Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Gary McDuffie]

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm...some feedback from those that still want it on the main screen would 
> be nice.

On the menu for me, Mike.

Gary - AG0N
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Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Joe Taylor]

Enough, already, about the audio level slider!!

Those who read the manual knew what it was for.

It confused many others, and it was responsible for a large number of 
emails to two reflectors and direct to me.


Its function was mildly useful, but redundant.

It will soon be history.

-- Joe, K1JT

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Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

There is no free space created by removing the slider.  The CAT widget is still 
there.  Though maybe we could do a color code on the freq display to show if 
it's working (e.g. red text if it's not since red background means OOB right 
now).
Seems like a lot of angst for a control that doesn't do much and will be used 
by a relatively small crowd.
But before moving any further need to cross the hurdle with Joe and Bill about 
whether to keep it at all.
There seems to be a resistance to "options" but I'm a big fan of giving 
operators easy-to-use controls for the way they operate and several have 
expressed a desire for easy graph level control from the main window.
Qt's layout facility is a PITAI wish it was just drag'n'drop.  I don't work 
with it enough so have to muddle through how to even move a widget...break 
layout...move...recreate layout...but layout doesn't work anymorearrghhh...
de Mike W9MDB

  From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <_vk3a...@vkdxer.net>
 To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 4:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio 
slider
   
 
 
 On 20/07/2017 6:30 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
  
 I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better place to 
put it without some judicious rearranging. Would need to figure out what to do 
with the CAT indicator for example. Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time 
might work. Just not a lot of room to work with. 
  de Mike W9MDB 
 
 What about relocating it horizontally right (to the left of the TX messages 
Tab control). The DX Call and associated controls could relocate to the left 
filling the now free space left by the slider, and the free space they create 
to their right could be taken up by the slider.
 
 de Laurie VK3AMA
     
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Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[David Tiller]

Michael,

It doesn't have to remain a gigantic slider - it could be a simple dB spinbox 
like the other controls on the graph window. That would actually free up space 
on the main window where all the real fun happens.
--
David Tiller
Sr. Architect/Lead Consultant | CapTech
(804) 304-0638 | 
dtil...@captechconsulting.com



On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
> 
wrote:

I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better place to 
put it without some judicious rearranging.
Would need to figure out what to do with the CAT indicator for example.
Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time might work.
Just not a lot of room to work with.

de Mike W9MDB




From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <_vk3a...@vkdxer.net>
To: WSJT software development 
>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM
Subject: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

Having the slider immediately adjacent to the level indicator,
regardless of its true function, implies to an uneducated user (hasn't
read the manual or understood group postings) that the two are
associated. It is how most GUIs are presented.

A problem I see all too often, is some users experiencing difficulties
or think there is a defect with their software will post their
questions/findings to non-related Internet forums, QRZ and eHam are the
big ones, looking for answers and support. They don't post to the
correct support group/forum. I see this often with WSJT-X, JTAlert and
JTDX. The usual result is an incorrect or incomplete answer from a user
based on their experience or the perception of how the software works,
often wrong. It is not uncommon to see a long running thread of
exchanges between users exchanging (and reinforcing) the misinformation.
Unless someone comes along and corrects the record, this misinformation
tends to be propagated through Internet searches and word-of-mouth.

None of us like our software being incorrectly maligned due to
misinformation.

IMHO, leaving the slider adjacent to the level meter will lead to an
ongoing public perception among some users that the software is broken.
Especially after a General Release (look at the numerous threads posted
since the 1.8.0-rc1 was posted, people don't read or research old
messages). New users encountering these uncorrected public defect
reports via an Internet search will likely perceive there is a problem
with the software.

That's my 2cents.

de Laurie VK3AMA



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Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Laurie, VK3AMA]

On 20/07/2017 6:30 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better 
place to put it without some judicious rearranging.

Would need to figure out what to do with the CAT indicator for example.
Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time might work.
Just not a lot of room to work with.

de Mike W9MDB


What about relocating it horizontally right (to the left of the TX 
messages Tab control). The DX Call and associated controls could 
relocate to the left filling the now free space left by the slider, and 
the free space they create to their right could be taken up by the slider.


de Laurie VK3AMA

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Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Hmmm...some feedback from those that still want it on the main screen would be 
nice.
de Mike W9MDB

  From: David Tiller 
 To: Black Michael ; WSJT software development 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio 
slider
   
Michael,
It doesn't have to remain a gigantic slider - it could be a simple dB spinbox 
like the other controls on the graph window. That would actually free up space 
on the main window where all the real fun happens.
--David TillerSr. Architect/Lead Consultant | CapTech(804) 304-0638 | 
dtil...@captechconsulting.com


On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:

I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better place to 
put it without some judicious rearranging.Would need to figure out what to do 
with the CAT indicator for example.Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time 
might work.Just not a lot of room to work with.
de Mike W9MDB


From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <_vk3a...@vkdxer.net>
To: WSJT software development 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM
Subject: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

Having the slider immediately adjacent to the level indicator,
regardless of its true function, implies to an uneducated user (hasn't
read the manual or understood group postings) that the two are
associated. It is how most GUIs are presented.

A problem I see all too often, is some users experiencing difficulties
or think there is a defect with their software will post their
questions/findings to non-related Internet forums, QRZ and eHam are the
big ones, looking for answers and support. They don't post to the
correct support group/forum. I see this often with WSJT-X, JTAlert and
JTDX. The usual result is an incorrect or incomplete answer from a user
based on their experience or the perception of how the software works,
often wrong. It is not uncommon to see a long running thread of
exchanges between users exchanging (and reinforcing) the misinformation.
Unless someone comes along and corrects the record, this misinformation
tends to be propagated through Internet searches and word-of-mouth.

None of us like our software being incorrectly maligned due to 
misinformation.

IMHO, leaving the slider adjacent to the level meter will lead to an
ongoing public perception among some users that the software is broken.
Especially after a General Release (look at the numerous threads posted
since the 1.8.0-rc1 was posted, people don't read or research old
messages). New users encountering these uncorrected public defect
reports via an Internet search will likely perceive there is a problem
with the software.

That's my 2cents.

de Laurie VK3AMA



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Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better place to 
put it without some judicious rearranging.Would need to figure out what to do 
with the CAT indicator for example.Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time 
might work.Just not a lot of room to work with.
de Mike W9MDB


  From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <_vk3a...@vkdxer.net>
 To: WSJT software development  
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM
 Subject: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio 
slider
   
Having the slider immediately adjacent to the level indicator, 
regardless of its true function, implies to an uneducated user (hasn't 
read the manual or understood group postings) that the two are 
associated. It is how most GUIs are presented.

A problem I see all too often, is some users experiencing difficulties 
or think there is a defect with their software will post their 
questions/findings to non-related Internet forums, QRZ and eHam are the 
big ones, looking for answers and support. They don't post to the 
correct support group/forum. I see this often with WSJT-X, JTAlert and 
JTDX. The usual result is an incorrect or incomplete answer from a user 
based on their experience or the perception of how the software works, 
often wrong. It is not uncommon to see a long running thread of 
exchanges between users exchanging (and reinforcing) the misinformation. 
Unless someone comes along and corrects the record, this misinformation 
tends to be propagated through Internet searches and word-of-mouth.

None of us like our software being incorrectly maligned due to 
misinformation.

IMHO, leaving the slider adjacent to the level meter will lead to an 
ongoing public perception among some users that the software is broken. 
Especially after a General Release (look at the numerous threads posted 
since the 1.8.0-rc1 was posted, people don't read or research old 
messages). New users encountering these uncorrected public defect 
reports via an Internet search will likely perceive there is a problem 
with the software.

That's my 2cents.

de Laurie VK3AMA



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[wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

[Laurie, VK3AMA]

Having the slider immediately adjacent to the level indicator, 
regardless of its true function, implies to an uneducated user (hasn't 
read the manual or understood group postings) that the two are 
associated. It is how most GUIs are presented.


A problem I see all too often, is some users experiencing difficulties 
or think there is a defect with their software will post their 
questions/findings to non-related Internet forums, QRZ and eHam are the 
big ones, looking for answers and support. They don't post to the 
correct support group/forum. I see this often with WSJT-X, JTAlert and 
JTDX. The usual result is an incorrect or incomplete answer from a user 
based on their experience or the perception of how the software works, 
often wrong. It is not uncommon to see a long running thread of 
exchanges between users exchanging (and reinforcing) the misinformation. 
Unless someone comes along and corrects the record, this misinformation 
tends to be propagated through Internet searches and word-of-mouth.


None of us like our software being incorrectly maligned due to 
misinformation.


IMHO, leaving the slider adjacent to the level meter will lead to an 
ongoing public perception among some users that the software is broken. 
Especially after a General Release (look at the numerous threads posted 
since the 1.8.0-rc1 was posted, people don't read or research old 
messages). New users encountering these uncorrected public defect 
reports via an Internet search will likely perceive there is a problem 
with the software.


That's my 2cents.

de Laurie VK3AMA



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Rich Griffiths]

Please add my vote in favor of removing the slider.

I think the screen presentation should be as simple, "clean", and 
intuitive as possible.  The slider has been none of that.  More 
confusing and counterintuitive than anything.  If there were no slider 
before now, no one would be wanting a control that affects only a graph 
window to be placed on the main window.


... RichW2RG


On 07/19/2017 02:45 PM, Joe Taylor wrote:

Mike --

Don't make the slider optional -- just remove it.

-- Joe

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[wsjt-devel] Add "FT8 Contest Mode" option

[Rich - K1HTV]

In the recent CQ VHF contest I used both MSK144 and FT8 for making many (110) 
digital contacts. The MSK144 mode already has a checkbox under 
File/Settings/Advanced for "MSK144 Contest Mode" which allowed the transmission 
of grid square reports. There presently is no such option for FT8.


I believe that with the most certain heavy usage of FT8 in future VHF contests, 
it would be a good idea to also make an "FT8 Contest Mode" option available. 
Thanks for your consideration of this for future releases of WSJT-X.


73,
Rich - K1HTV

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Gary McDuffie]

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> The patch as-is makes it default to offthat vast majority of people will 
> not need to enable it and if they do, it's clear as a bell in the checkbox to 
> turn it on.
> We'll still get "what happened to the slider" questions.
> Just trying to avoid the complaints of fast graph operators who liked the 
> control in a more handy place by making it optional.

I hate to disagree with “the boss” (please foregive, Joe), but I do on this.  
I’d really like to see it at least available.  Your menu idea works for me.

Gary - AG0N
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

That's a known weakness of the Flattenbut if you bump up the "Start" value 
and make the graph window a bit narrower than your bandpass it works fine.
de Mike W9MDB

  From: Gary McDuffie 
 To: Black Michael ; WSJT software development 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:43 PM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
   

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Are you using the fast graph or is there some reason not to use Flatten for 
> you?

With flatten turned on, there are extreme curves add at the edges of the 
receiver bandpass if it is narrower than your display.  Turning it off shows 
the real response and is more usable, at least for me.

Gary - AG0N

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Gary McDuffie]

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Are you using the fast graph or is there some reason not to use Flatten for 
> you?

With flatten turned on, there are extreme curves add at the edges of the 
receiver bandpass if it is narrower than your display.  Turning it off shows 
the real response and is more usable, at least for me.

Gary - AG0N
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Pwr slider - tooltip level indication wrong

[Richard Lamont]

On 19/07/17 20:28, Richard Lamont wrote:

> I noticed that with the Pwr slider at maximum, the level of the tone on
> 'Tune' was exactly 0 dBFS, as expected. However, when turning the level
> down, the measured level went down 3 dB for every 1 dB indicated on the
> tooltip shown as I hovered the mouse over the slider.

Sorry, scrub all that. There's something weird going on with Ubuntu
audio. Probably bloody pulseaudio getting in the way as usual. Sorry for
the false alarm.

73,
Richard G4DYA


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[wsjt-devel] Pwr slider - tooltip level indication wrong

[Richard Lamont]

v1.8.0-rc2-r7924
Ubuntu 16.04 amd64

I connected the Tx audio output from WSJT-X via Jack to a couple of
audio test utilities - the jaaa spectrum analyser and the jnoisemeter
RMS level meter.

I noticed that with the Pwr slider at maximum, the level of the tone on
'Tune' was exactly 0 dBFS, as expected. However, when turning the level
down, the measured level went down 3 dB for every 1 dB indicated on the
tooltip shown as I hovered the mouse over the slider.


73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

The patch as-is makes it default to offthat vast majority of people will 
not need to enable it and if they do, it's clear as a bell in the checkbox to 
turn it on.We'll still get "what happened to the slider" questions.Just trying 
to avoid the complaints of fast graph operators who liked the control in a more 
handy place by making it optional.
de Mike W9MDB


  From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <_vk3a...@vkdxer.net>
 To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
   


On 20/07/2017 4:45 AM, Joe Taylor wrote:
> Mike --
>
> Don't make the slider optional -- just remove it.
>
>    -- Joe

+1 from me.

While ever the slider is immediately adjacent to the level indicator, 
regardless of how many times the true function of the slider has been 
publicly explained, people will complain of perceived broken behaviour. 
Having the slider adjacent to a non-related level indicator is the problem.

de Laurie VK3AMA


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Laurie, VK3AMA]

On 20/07/2017 4:45 AM, Joe Taylor wrote:

Mike --

Don't make the slider optional -- just remove it.

-- Joe


+1 from me.

While ever the slider is immediately adjacent to the level indicator, 
regardless of how many times the true function of the slider has been 
publicly explained, people will complain of perceived broken behaviour. 
Having the slider adjacent to a non-related level indicator is the problem.


de Laurie VK3AMA


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

There were a few people who still wanted waterfall control from the main 
window...mainly for fastgraph...to avoid having too much mouse movement when 
switching bands.
Just trying to accommodate those operators.  It's harmless to everybody else, 
isn't it?
de Mike W9MDB
  From: Joe Taylor 
 To: Black Michael via wsjt-devel  
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
   
Mike --

Don't make the slider optional -- just remove it.

    -- Joe

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Joe Taylor]

Mike --

Don't make the slider optional -- just remove it.

-- Joe

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

For Winders' and JTSDKcd \jtsdk\src\wsjtxsvn patch slider.patch
de Mike W9MDB

  From: dgb 
 To: Black Michael via wsjt-devel  
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 PM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
   
 Mike, how does one add those patches? 73 Dwight NS9I
  
 On 7/19/2017 1:01 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
  
  Make main window water fall slider optional in Settings/General.  Add 
in-your-face notice to audio settings.  Improve Transceiver Setup in manual.  
Improve tooltip on inGain slider. 
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl2hwlt2me63yfu/slider.patch?dl=1
  
  Comments/tomatoes welcome on the transceiver setup docs.  Tried to add some 
answers to FAQ and hopefully they are clear enough. 
  I intend on making a youtube video on setting up audio. 
  de Mike W9MDB
  
   
  
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[dgb]

Mike, how does one add those patches?

73 Dwight NS9I


On 7/19/2017 1:01 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
Make main window water fall slider optional in Settings/General.  Add 
in-your-face notice to audio settings.  Improve Transceiver Setup in 
manual.  Improve tooltip on inGain slider.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl2hwlt2me63yfu/slider.patch?dl=1

Comments/tomatoes welcome on the transceiver setup docs.  Tried to add 
some answers to FAQ and hopefully they are clear enough.


I intend on making a youtube video on setting up audio.

de Mike W9MDB



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[AB1NJ]

I vote to get rid of the slider once and for all. I'm tired of reading 
about it, as I'm sure people are tired of answering the same question 
over and over again.


Rob AB1NJ

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Make main window water fall slider optional in Settings/General.  Add 
in-your-face notice to audio settings.  Improve Transceiver Setup in manual.  
Improve tooltip on inGain slider.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl2hwlt2me63yfu/slider.patch?dl=1

Comments/tomatoes welcome on the transceiver setup docs.  Tried to add some 
answers to FAQ and hopefully they are clear enough.
I intend on making a youtube video on setting up audio.
de Mike W9MDB

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Joe Taylor]

Hi David,

On 7/19/2017 11:42 AM, David Tiller wrote:
Using flatten for me results in a very angry red and yellow mess. I run 
my input signal fairly hot, though. Around 60dB or so. It seems that 
flatten can't handle high input levels.


Almost always, this behavior indicated that you have not followed the 
advice for use of *Flatten* in Section 10.7 of the User Guide:


file:///C:/JTSDK/wsjtx/devel/qt55/1.7.1/Release/install/share/doc/WSJT-X/wsjtx-main-1.7.1-devel.html#CONTROLS_WIDE

FYI: this is the sort of message -- one dealing with configuration or 
use of WSJT-X -- that fits better on the "wsjtgroup" reflector, rather 
than here on "wsjt-devel".


-- 73, Joe, K1JT

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

One thing I've seen many do is keep the Start frequency at 0 instead of 200 for 
example where most rigs roll off.And then having the upper limit above their 
bandpass.  That's adjusted with Bins/pixel and the waterfall width.The Flatten 
works best on an already flat bandpass in the waterfall view.  Otherwise the 
roll off on the edges can confuse it.
de Mike W9MDB

  From: George J Molnar 
 To: Black Michael ; WSJT software development 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:43 AM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
   
Mike, you're right. Previous experiences with “Flatten” had led me to not use 
it for a long time. Just tested using it, and it is much better than I recall, 
and quite satisfactory!
I respectfully withdraw my support for slider retention. 
PS - I do use the fast graph frequently, but can adjust without difficulty.

George J Molnar, KF2T Nevada, USA


On Jul 19, 2017, at 10:20 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:


The "Flatten" option on the waterfall solves that problem too.But not for the 
fast graph.Are you using the fast graph or is there some reason not to use 
Flatten for you?
de Mike W9MDB 
  From: George J Molnar 
 To: WSJT software development  
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:15 AM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
  
Vote for retention of the slider. Switching bands often calls for readjusting 
the waterfall, and the slider is a convenient, easy to understand tool. 
I wouldn't mind moving it away from the thermometer, to clarify the proper 
function. It isn't really difficult to grasp, though!

George J Molnar, KF2T Nevada, USA


On Jul 19, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Dan Malcolm  wrote:



#yiv7561257411 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 
4;}#yiv7561257411 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv7561257411 
filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7561257411 
p.yiv7561257411MsoNormal, #yiv7561257411 li.yiv7561257411MsoNormal, 
#yiv7561257411 div.yiv7561257411MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7561257411 a:link, 
#yiv7561257411 span.yiv7561257411MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7561257411 a:visited, #yiv7561257411 
span.yiv7561257411MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7561257411 
span.yiv7561257411EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7561257411 
.yiv7561257411MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv7561257411 filtered 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7561257411 div.yiv7561257411WordSection1 
{}#yiv7561257411 Mike, Bill,FWIW I’d like to keep the slider.  I like the idea 
of encouraging users to read the manual.  From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
[mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:37 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Cc: Black Michael 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem  There were those 
that still wanted the waterfall adjustment for the fast graph handy so leaving 
it as an option would be the only solution.  I submitted some tooltip changes a 
while ago to make it pretty much in-your-face on the meter tooltip.Then we need 
to spice up the documentation so be more in-your-face too.  "Transceiver setup" 
as an index title is not intuitive but hopefully most know how to use search 
for keywords.  I tried to see if you could put a hyperlink in a tool tip but 
appears not.  Though about doing a ctrl-click on the meter or such to bring up 
the relevant section in the manual then put the ctrl-click info in the tooltip. 
 de Mike W9MDB  From: Bill Somerville 
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem  On 18/07/2017 
23:32, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
I'd say the vast majority have no use for the slider anymore.So let's hide it 
by default and have an enable checkbox in the config.  I'll do that patch if 
you think that's acceptable...we'll still end up with "what happened to..." but 
se la vie... 
Hi Mike,if you are going to do a patch then remove the slider altogether, that 
is probably the best option. It is of limited value and will always be 
misunderstood by many who don't understand the underlying realities of digital 
samples. Unfortunately the result may well be that those who miss the slider 
will revert to using the operating system sliders which are effectively the 
same thing and equally pointless (even harmful at extreme settings) as the 
WSJT-X slider.  73
Bill
G4WJS.--
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[George J Molnar]

Mike, you're right. Previous experiences with “Flatten” had led me to not use 
it for a long time. Just tested using it, and it is much better than I recall, 
and quite satisfactory!

I respectfully withdraw my support for slider retention. 

PS - I do use the fast graph frequently, but can adjust without difficulty.

George J Molnar, KF2T 
Nevada, USA


> On Jul 19, 2017, at 10:20 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> The "Flatten" option on the waterfall solves that problem too.
> But not for the fast graph.
> Are you using the fast graph or is there some reason not to use Flatten for 
> you?
> 
> de Mike W9MDB
>  
> 
> From: George J Molnar 
> To: WSJT software development  
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
> 
> Vote for retention of the slider. Switching bands often calls for readjusting 
> the waterfall, and the slider is a convenient, easy to understand tool. 
> 
> I wouldn't mind moving it away from the thermometer, to clarify the proper 
> function. It isn't really difficult to grasp, though!
> 
> George J Molnar, KF2T 
> Nevada, USA
> 
> 
>> On Jul 19, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Dan Malcolm  wrote:
>> 
> 
> Mike, Bill,
> FWIW I’d like to keep the slider.  I like the idea of encouraging users to 
> read the manual.
>  
> From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:37 PM
> To: WSJT software development 
> Cc: Black Michael 
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
>  
> There were those that still wanted the waterfall adjustment for the fast 
> graph handy so leaving it as an option would be the only solution.
>  
> I submitted some tooltip changes a while ago to make it pretty much 
> in-your-face on the meter tooltip.
> Then we need to spice up the documentation so be more in-your-face too.  
> "Transceiver setup" as an index title is not intuitive but hopefully most 
> know how to use search for keywords.  I tried to see if you could put a 
> hyperlink in a tool tip but appears not.  Though about doing a ctrl-click on 
> the meter or such to bring up the relevant section in the manual then put the 
> ctrl-click info in the tooltip.
>  
> de Mike W9MDB
>  
> From: Bill Somerville 
> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
>  
> On 18/07/2017 23:32, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
> I'd say the vast majority have no use for the slider anymore.
> So let's hide it by default and have an enable checkbox in the config.
>  
> I'll do that patch if you think that's acceptable...we'll still end up with 
> "what happened to..." but se la vie... 
> Hi Mike,
> if you are going to do a patch then remove the slider altogether, that is 
> probably the best option. It is of limited value and will always be 
> misunderstood by many who don't understand the underlying realities of 
> digital samples. Unfortunately the result may well be that those who miss the 
> slider will revert to using the operating system sliders which are 
> effectively the same thing and equally pointless (even harmful at extreme 
> settings) as the WSJT-X slider.
>  
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>  
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[David Tiller]

Using flatten for me results in a very angry red and yellow mess. I run my 
input signal fairly hot, though. Around 60dB or so. It seems that flatten can't 
handle high input levels.


David Tiller | Senior Manager
dtil...@captechconsulting.com
c 804.304.0638 / o 804.355.0511

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From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:20 AM
To: WSJT software development
Cc: Black Michael
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

The "Flatten" option on the waterfall solves that problem too.
But not for the fast graph.
Are you using the fast graph or is there some reason not to use Flatten for you?

de Mike W9MDB



From: George J Molnar 
To: WSJT software development 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

Vote for retention of the slider. Switching bands often calls for readjusting 
the waterfall, and the slider is a convenient, easy to understand tool.

I wouldn't mind moving it away from the thermometer, to clarify the proper 
function. It isn't really difficult to grasp, though!

George J Molnar, KF2T
Nevada, USA


On Jul 19, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Dan Malcolm 
> wrote:

Mike, Bill,
FWIW I’d like to keep the slider.  I like the idea of encouraging users to read 
the manual.

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:37 PM
To: WSJT software development 
>
Cc: Black Michael >
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

There were those that still wanted the waterfall adjustment for the fast graph 
handy so leaving it as an option would be the only solution.

I submitted some tooltip changes a while ago to make it pretty much 
in-your-face on the meter tooltip.
Then we need to spice up the documentation so be more in-your-face too.  
"Transceiver setup" as an index title is not intuitive but hopefully most know 
how to use search for keywords.  I tried to see if you could put a hyperlink in 
a tool tip but appears not.  Though about doing a ctrl-click on the meter or 
such to bring up the relevant section in the manual then put the ctrl-click 
info in the tooltip.

de Mike W9MDB


From: Bill Somerville >
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

On 18/07/2017 23:32, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
I'd say the vast majority have no use for the slider anymore.
So let's hide it by default and have an enable checkbox in the config.

I'll do that patch if you think that's acceptable...we'll still end up with 
"what happened to..." but se la vie...
Hi Mike,
if you are going to do a patch then remove the slider altogether, that is 
probably the best option. It is of limited value and will always be 
misunderstood by many who don't understand the underlying realities of digital 
samples. Unfortunately the result may well be that those who miss the slider 
will revert to using the operating system sliders which are effectively the 
same thing and equally pointless (even harmful at extreme settings) as the 
WSJT-X slider.

73
Bill
G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Richard Lamont]

On 18/07/17 23:52, Bill Somerville wrote:

> if you are going to do a patch then remove the slider altogether

+1 for removal from the main window. I'm not bothered whether something
gets added to the waterfall window, as long as it doesn't duplicate what
the existing four sliders do.

73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

The "Flatten" option on the waterfall solves that problem too.But not for the 
fast graph.Are you using the fast graph or is there some reason not to use 
Flatten for you?
de Mike W9MDB 
  From: George J Molnar 
 To: WSJT software development  
 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:15 AM
 Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
   
Vote for retention of the slider. Switching bands often calls for readjusting 
the waterfall, and the slider is a convenient, easy to understand tool. 
I wouldn't mind moving it away from the thermometer, to clarify the proper 
function. It isn't really difficult to grasp, though!

George J Molnar, KF2T Nevada, USA


On Jul 19, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Dan Malcolm  wrote:



#yiv6323648667 #yiv6323648667 -- _filtered #yiv6323648667 
{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6323648667 
{panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6323648667 
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv6323648667 
#yiv6323648667 p.yiv6323648667MsoNormal, #yiv6323648667 
li.yiv6323648667MsoNormal, #yiv6323648667 div.yiv6323648667MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6323648667 a:link, 
#yiv6323648667 span.yiv6323648667MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6323648667 a:visited, #yiv6323648667 
span.yiv6323648667MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
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span.yiv6323648667EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6323648667 
.yiv6323648667MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6323648667 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6323648667 div.yiv6323648667WordSection1 
{}#yiv6323648667 Mike, Bill,FWIW I’d like to keep the slider.  I like the idea 
of encouraging users to read the manual.  From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
[mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:37 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Cc: Black Michael 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem  There were those 
that still wanted the waterfall adjustment for the fast graph handy so leaving 
it as an option would be the only solution.  I submitted some tooltip changes a 
while ago to make it pretty much in-your-face on the meter tooltip.Then we need 
to spice up the documentation so be more in-your-face too.  "Transceiver setup" 
as an index title is not intuitive but hopefully most know how to use search 
for keywords.  I tried to see if you could put a hyperlink in a tool tip but 
appears not.  Though about doing a ctrl-click on the meter or such to bring up 
the relevant section in the manual then put the ctrl-click info in the tooltip. 
 de Mike W9MDB  From: Bill Somerville 
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem  On 18/07/2017 
23:32, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
I'd say the vast majority have no use for the slider anymore.So let's hide it 
by default and have an enable checkbox in the config.  I'll do that patch if 
you think that's acceptable...we'll still end up with "what happened to..." but 
se la vie... 
Hi Mike,if you are going to do a patch then remove the slider altogether, that 
is probably the best option. It is of limited value and will always be 
misunderstood by many who don't understand the underlying realities of digital 
samples. Unfortunately the result may well be that those who miss the slider 
will revert to using the operating system sliders which are effectively the 
same thing and equally pointless (even harmful at extreme settings) as the 
WSJT-X slider.  73
Bill
G4WJS.--
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[George J Molnar]

Vote for retention of the slider. Switching bands often calls for readjusting 
the waterfall, and the slider is a convenient, easy to understand tool. 

I wouldn't mind moving it away from the thermometer, to clarify the proper 
function. It isn't really difficult to grasp, though!

George J Molnar, KF2T 
Nevada, USA


> On Jul 19, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Dan Malcolm  wrote:
> 
> Mike, Bill,
> FWIW I’d like to keep the slider.  I like the idea of encouraging users to 
> read the manual.
>  
> From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:37 PM
> To: WSJT software development 
> Cc: Black Michael 
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
>  
> There were those that still wanted the waterfall adjustment for the fast 
> graph handy so leaving it as an option would be the only solution.
>  
> I submitted some tooltip changes a while ago to make it pretty much 
> in-your-face on the meter tooltip.
> Then we need to spice up the documentation so be more in-your-face too.  
> "Transceiver setup" as an index title is not intuitive but hopefully most 
> know how to use search for keywords.  I tried to see if you could put a 
> hyperlink in a tool tip but appears not.  Though about doing a ctrl-click on 
> the meter or such to bring up the relevant section in the manual then put the 
> ctrl-click info in the tooltip.
>  
> de Mike W9MDB
>  
> From: Bill Somerville 
> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem
>  
> On 18/07/2017 23:32, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
> I'd say the vast majority have no use for the slider anymore.
> So let's hide it by default and have an enable checkbox in the config.
>  
> I'll do that patch if you think that's acceptable...we'll still end up with 
> "what happened to..." but se la vie... 
> Hi Mike,
> if you are going to do a patch then remove the slider altogether, that is 
> probably the best option. It is of limited value and will always be 
> misunderstood by many who don't understand the underlying realities of 
> digital samples. Unfortunately the result may well be that those who miss the 
> slider will revert to using the operating system sliders which are 
> effectively the same thing and equally pointless (even harmful at extreme 
> settings) as the WSJT-X slider.
>  
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

[Dan Malcolm]

Mike, Bill,

FWIW I’d like to keep the slider.  I like the idea of encouraging users to read 
the manual.

 

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:37 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Cc: Black Michael 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

 

There were those that still wanted the waterfall adjustment for the fast graph 
handy so leaving it as an option would be the only solution.

 

I submitted some tooltip changes a while ago to make it pretty much 
in-your-face on the meter tooltip.

Then we need to spice up the documentation so be more in-your-face too.  
"Transceiver setup" as an index title is not intuitive but hopefully most know 
how to use search for keywords.  I tried to see if you could put a hyperlink in 
a tool tip but appears not.  Though about doing a ctrl-click on the meter or 
such to bring up the relevant section in the manual then put the ctrl-click 
info in the tooltip.

 

de Mike W9MDB

 

  _  

From: Bill Somerville  >
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net   
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Ver 1.8 RC1 audio in slider problem

 

On 18/07/2017 23:32, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:

I'd say the vast majority have no use for the slider anymore.

So let's hide it by default and have an enable checkbox in the config.

 

I'll do that patch if you think that's acceptable...we'll still end up with 
"what happened to..." but se la vie... 

Hi Mike,

if you are going to do a patch then remove the slider altogether, that is 
probably the best option. It is of limited value and will always be 
misunderstood by many who don't understand the underlying realities of digital 
samples. Unfortunately the result may well be that those who miss the slider 
will revert to using the operating system sliders which are effectively the 
same thing and equally pointless (even harmful at extreme settings) as the 
WSJT-X slider.

 

73
Bill
G4WJS.

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