Re: [zfs-discuss] Cause for data corruption?
Le mardi 26 février 2008 à 05:59 -0800, Sandro a écrit : Hey Thanks for your answers guys. I'll run VTS to stresstest cpu and memory. And I just checked the block diagram of my motherboard (Gigabyte M61P-S3). It doesn't even have 64bit pci slots.. just standard old 33mhz 32bit pci .. and a couple of newer pci-e. But my two controllers are both the same vendor / version and are both connected to the same pci bus. looks like 32 bits ZFS definitively hurts :D -- Nicolas Szalay Administrateur systèmes réseaux -- _ ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) - against HTML email X vCards / \ signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
Hi Marcus, Marcus Sundman wrote: Are path-names text or raw data in zfs? I.e., is it possible to know what the name of a file/dir/whatever is, or do I have to make more or less wild guesses what encoding is used where? - Marcus I'm not sure what you are asking here. When a zfs file system is mounted, it looks like a normal unix file system, i.e., a tree of files where intermediate nodes are directories and leaf nodes may be directories or regular files. In other words, ls gives you the same kind of output you would expect on any unix file system. As to whether a file/directory name is text or binary, that depends on the name used when creating the file/directory. As far as the meta-data used to maintain the file system tree, most of this is compressed. But your question makes me wonder if you have tried zfs. If so, then I really am not sure what you are asking. If not, maybe you should try it out... max ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Hmm, two thoughts on this: 1. For anyone interested, didn't VMS do something like this? Perhaps a look at its design and implementation would be useful here. 2. For the per-application issue, there are ways to handle that. First, make a ZFS api for providing file-level snapshots. Then, a library wrapper around the normal syscalls (open,close,read,write,etc) that invokes the zfs apis as needed. Either the wrapper is smart enough to know which app wants which behavior (perhaps even specializing also on the path of the file), or several libraries available for different tasks. Shove it/them in something like LD_PRELOAD and you'd be good to go. As for utility, I think this sort of thing would be fantastic in certain areas. If you can develop the feature set cheap enough, then it's a real win. I haven't touched ZFS's internals (in code or even dev docs), so I don't know what kind of work's required to pull off file-level snapshots. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Cause for data corruption?
haha very funny :D Just the controllers are on a 32bit PCI bus.. solaris itself is running 64bit: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /var/tmp/ # isainfo amd64 i386 And besides, a lot of our customers are having serious problems with their thumpers and zfs and stuff... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
[i]Even then, I'm still confused as to how I would do anything much useful with this over and above, say, 1 minute snapshots.[/i] Hi Nathan, I was hoping to be clear with my examples. Within that 1 minute the user has easily received the mail alert that 5 mails have arrived, has seen the sender and deleted them. Without any trigger of some snapshot, or storage of that state while the messages were actually on the drive. No recovery possible. One minute is much too long. Taking the average reaction time of users, we cannot expect, on the other hand, that the user is able to perform more than two operations within less than a second (receiving the notice, recognising the sender, clicking 'Delete'). On the other hand, one minute is much too frequently w.r.t. efficient usage of resources. The normal situation on a workstation within 1 minute difference in time is, that the file(s) on which the user works, are unmodified. It might please the vendors of hardware and storage space to try a snapshot once per minute, but normally, the actual change content will be zero. Logical consequence: If one minute is much too long w.r.t. recovery and at the same time too short for scheduled snapshots, the whole thing is based on wrong premises. In this case, the wrong assumption that scheduled snapshots could serve the intended purpose of a versioning system comprising all relevant versions. As much as ZFS is revolutionary, it is far away from being the 'ultimate file system', if it doesn't know how to handle event-driven snapshots (I don't like the word), backups, versioning. As long as a high-level system utility needs to be invoked by a scheduler for these features (CDP), and - this is relevant - *ZFS does not support these functionalities essentially different from FAT or UFS*, the days of ZFS are counted. Sooner or later, and I bet it is sooner, someone will design a file system (hardware, software, Cairo) to which the tasks of retiring files, as well as creating versions of modified files, can be passed down, together with the file handlles. No need to believe me. But remember, you read it here first. Uwe This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Marcus Sundman wrote: Nicolas Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:54:29AM +0200, Marcus Sundman wrote: Nathan Kroenert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you indicating that the filesystem know's or should know what an application is doing?? Maybe snapshot file whenever a write-filedescriptor is closed or somesuch? Again. Not enough. Some apps (many!) deal with multiple files. So what? Why would every file-snapshot have to be a file that's valid for the application(s) using it? (Certainly zfs snapshots don't provide that property either, nor any other backup-related system I've seen.) If it isn't how does the user or application know that is safe to use that file ? Is it okay to provide a snapshot of a file that is corrupt and will cause further more serious data corruption in the application ? -- Darren J Moffat ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would such snapshots appear and where? (Again, I disliked the file;X notation and the fact that a manual purge was required). I agree about the ';x' However (and I don't know what the patents are in this area.) Something like what clearcase does (an invisible directory for each file full of the files history.) might be interesting. -Kyle Casper ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: Are path-names text or raw data in zfs? I.e., is it possible to know what the name of a file/dir/whatever is, or do I have to make more or less wild guesses what encoding is used where? I'm not sure what you are asking here. When a zfs file system is mounted, it looks like a normal unix file system, i.e., a tree of files where intermediate nodes are directories and leaf nodes may be directories or regular files. In other words, ls gives you the same kind of output you would expect on any unix file system. As to whether a file/directory name is text or binary, that depends on the name used when creating the file/directory. As far as the meta-data used to maintain the file system tree, most of this is compressed. But your question makes me wonder if you have tried zfs. If so, then I really am not sure what you are asking. If not, maybe you should try it out... I am running it (in nexenta). Anyway, my question was whether path-names (files, dirs, links, sockets, etc) are text or raw data. Fundamentals: raw data is a list of bits, usually in groups of 8 (i.e., bytes), and text is raw data + some way of knowing how to convert that data into characters, forming strings. Example: When you go to a web-page the webserver sends the bytes of the page along with a http-header named Content-Type, which tells your browser how to interpret those bytes. Example: Some versioning systems, such as svn, are hardcoded to encode pathnames as UTF-8. So, although the encoding-metadata isn't available along with the data it is in the specification. So, once more, is it possible to know the pathnames (as text) on zfs, or are pathnames just raw data and I (or my programs) have to make more or less wild guesses about what encoding the user who created the file/dir/etc. used for its name? At least on linux it's the latter. IMO it really sucks to not be able to know the names of files/dirs/etc., because it always leads to problems. E.g., most (but not all) programs assume filenames should be encoded according to the current locale (let's say utf-8), so when a filename with another encoding (let's say iso-8859-15) is encountered various Evil(tm) things happen, such as not displaying the file(s) at all (e.g., an image viewer I've used), or replacing filenames with ?, or replacing parts of filenames with ? and decoding the rest of the filename with an obviously incorrect encoding (e.g., ls). I've even seen programs crash when they can't decode a filename. - Marcus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Kyle McDonald wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would such snapshots appear and where? (Again, I disliked the file;X notation and the fact that a manual purge was required). I agree about the ';x' However (and I don't know what the patents are in this area.) Something like what clearcase does (an invisible directory for each file full of the files history.) might be interesting. What like a .zfs/snapshot directory :-) -- Darren J Moffat ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:20:42AM -0500, Lally Singh wrote: 1. For anyone interested, didn't VMS do something like this? Perhaps a look at its design and implementation would be useful here. IBM MVS had generations. Each rewrite of a file created a new generation of that file. Referential integrity is a more complex issue, of course. -- -Gary Mills--Unix Support--U of M Academic Computing and Networking- ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
See the description of the normalization and utf8only properties in the zfs(1) man page. I think this might help you. normalization =none | formD | formKCf Indicates whether the file system should perform a unicode normalization of file names whenever two file names are compared, and which normalization algorithm should be used. File names are always stored unmodified, names are normalized as part of any comparison process. If this property is set to a legal value other than none, and the utf8only property was left unspeci- fied, the utf8only property is automatically set to on. The default value of the normalization property is none. This property cannot be changed after the file system is created. utf8only =on | off Indicates whether the file system should reject file names that include characters that are not present in the UTF-8 character code set. If this property is expli- citly set to off, the normalization property must either not be explicitly set or be set to none. The default value for the utf8only property is off. This property cannot be changed after the file system is created. -- Darren J Moffat ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Nicolas Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:54:29AM +0200, Marcus Sundman wrote: Nathan Kroenert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you indicating that the filesystem know's or should know what an application is doing?? Maybe snapshot file whenever a write-filedescriptor is closed or somesuch? Again. Not enough. Some apps (many!) deal with multiple files. So what? Why would every file-snapshot have to be a file that's valid for the application(s) using it? (Certainly zfs snapshots don't provide that property either, nor any other backup-related system I've seen.) - Marcus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Uwe, I think you are assuming that zfs is cast in stone; features are added to ZFS almost on a weekly basis. If there is demand for a certain feature then at some point resources may be made available. What form would you want file versioning to take? I immensely disliked VMS ;X notation for files. I'm not sure how this worked (was it transactional and did files only appear as file;N+1 after they had been completely written and closed? How would such snapshots appear and where? (Again, I disliked the file;X notation and the fact that a manual purge was required). Casper ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Feb 27, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Uwe Dippel wrote: As much as ZFS is revolutionary, it is far away from being the 'ultimate file system', if it doesn't know how to handle event- driven snapshots (I don't like the word), backups, versioning. As long as a high-level system utility needs to be invoked by a scheduler for these features (CDP), and - this is relevant - *ZFS does not support these functionalities essentially different from FAT or UFS*, the days of ZFS are counted. Sooner or later, and I bet it is sooner, someone will design a file system (hardware, software, Cairo) to which the tasks of retiring files, as well as creating versions of modified files, can be passed down, together with the file handlles. meh .. don't believe all the marketing hype you hear - it's good at what it's good at, and is a constant WIP for many of the other features that people would like to hear .. but the one ring to rule them all - not quite yet .. as for the CDP issue - i believe the event driving would really have to happen below ZFS at the vnode or znode layer .. keep in mind that with the ZPL we're still dealing with 30+ year old structures and methods (which is fine btw) in the VFS/Vnode layers .. a couple of areas i would look at (that i haven't seen mentioned in this discussion) might be: - fop_vnevent .. or the equivalent (if we have one yet) for a znode - filesystem - door interface for event handling - auditing if you look at what some of the other vendors (eg: apple/timemachine) are doing - it's essentially a tally of file change events that get dumped into a database and rolled up at some point .. if you plan on taking more immediate action on the file changes then i believe that you'll run into latency (race) issues for synchronous semantics anyhow - just a thought from another who is constantly learning (being corrected, learning some more, more correction, etc ..) --- .je ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
Darren J Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See the description of the normalization and utf8only properties in the zfs(1) man page. I think this might help you. normalization =none | formD | formKCf That's apparently only for comparisons, so I don't see how it's relevant. utf8only =on | off Indicates whether the file system should reject file names that include characters that are not present in the UTF-8 character code set. If this property is expli- citly set to off, the normalization property must either not be explicitly set or be set to none. The default value for the utf8only property is off. This property cannot be changed after the file system is created. I'm unable to find more info about this. E.g., what does reject file names mean in practice? E.g., if a program tries to create a file using an utf8-incompatible filename, what happens? Does the fopen() fail? Would this normally be a problem? E.g., do tar and similar programs convert utf8-incompatible filenames to utf8 upon extraction if my locale (or wherever the fs encoding is taken from) is set to use utf-8? If they don't, then what happens with archives containing utf8-incompatible filenames? - Marcus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Darren J Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: Nicolas Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:54:29AM +0200, Marcus Sundman wrote: Nathan Kroenert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you indicating that the filesystem know's or should know what an application is doing?? Maybe snapshot file whenever a write-filedescriptor is closed or somesuch? Again. Not enough. Some apps (many!) deal with multiple files. So what? Why would every file-snapshot have to be a file that's valid for the application(s) using it? (Certainly zfs snapshots don't provide that property either, nor any other backup-related system I've seen.) If it isn't how does the user or application know that is safe to use that file ? Unless the files contain some checksum or somesuch then I guess it doesn't know it's safe. However, that's unavoidable unless the application can use a transaction-supporting fs api. Is it okay to provide a snapshot of a file that is corrupt and will cause further more serious data corruption in the application ? Well, apparently so. That's what zfs snapshots do. That's what all backup tools do. Sure it would be better to have full transactions in the fs api, but without that I don't think it's possible to do any better than the file might be corrupt or it might not, good luck if your file format doesn't support corruption-detection. - Marcus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Darren J Moffat wrote: Kyle McDonald wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would such snapshots appear and where? (Again, I disliked the file;X notation and the fact that a manual purge was required). I agree about the ';x' However (and I don't know what the patents are in this area.) Something like what clearcase does (an invisible directory for each file full of the files history.) might be interesting. What like a .zfs/snapshot directory :-) I was thinking more for a file by file access. ls might show just a file named 'foo' but if you typed cd foo@@/ then ls you might see files in this new 'directory' named 1 2 3 etc. that reperesent the snapshots of that file over time. I mentioned clearcase, but I was not suggesting implementing an SCM tool. Just using the existing UI for live access to previous versions. -Kyle ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Performance with Sun StorageTek 2540
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Cyril Plisko wrote: http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/zfs-discuss/2540-zfs-performance.pdf Nov 26, 2008 ??? May I borrow your time machine ? ;-) Are there any stock prices you would like to know about? Perhaps you are interested in the outcome of the elections? There was a time inversion layer in Texas. Fixed now ... Bob == Bob Friesenhahn [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Nicolas Williams wrote: Maybe snapshot file whenever a write-filedescriptor is closed or somesuch? Again. Not enough. Some apps (many!) deal with multiple files. Or more significantly, with multiple pages. When using memory mapping the application may close its file descriptor, but then the underlying file is updated in a somewhat random fashion as dirty pages are written to disk. It seems that this hypothesis is without merit. Bob == Bob Friesenhahn [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Uwe Dippel wrote: As much as ZFS is revolutionary, it is far away from being the 'ultimate file system', if it doesn't know how to handle event-driven snapshots UFS == Ultimate File System ZFS == Zettabyte File System Perhaps you have these two confused? ZFS does not lay claim to being the ultimate file system. You can provide great benefit to society if you invent and implement a filesystem with all that ZFS offers, plus your remarkable ideas, provided that the result still provides the performance that users expect and there is sufficient storage space available. Consider this to be your life's mission. Bob == Bob Friesenhahn [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
UFS == Ultimate File System ZFS == Zettabyte File System it's a nit, but.. UFS != Ultimate File System ZFS != Zettabyte File System cheers, --justin ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 03:57:29PM +0200, Marcus Sundman wrote: Nicolas Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:54:29AM +0200, Marcus Sundman wrote: Nathan Kroenert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you indicating that the filesystem know's or should know what an application is doing?? Maybe snapshot file whenever a write-filedescriptor is closed or somesuch? Again. Not enough. Some apps (many!) deal with multiple files. So what? Why would every file-snapshot have to be a file that's valid for the application(s) using it? (Certainly zfs snapshots don't provide that property either, nor any other backup-related system I've seen.) With CDP you'd have thousands (and possibly many more still) snapshots a day to choose from when restoring. With backups you get to quiesce the apps/system, and you don't run them that often, with CDP the wohle point is that you don't have to quiesce the system and it runs continuously. So I see a tremendous qualitative difference between CDP and snapshots/ backups. The question remains: how to pick a CDP snapshot to restore to? How do you even know which files are relevant to whatever problem you're trying to solve via restoring to a CDP snapshot? I'm convinced that the answer is that we need new system calls by which apps can inform the system about the state of app-level filesystem transactions. Modify a few high-profile apps to support this and you've got a good chance to get momentum behind CDP (i.e., to get other less visible apps to be updated too, to get third parties to update their enterprise apps). Nico -- ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:33:13AM -0500, Kyle McDonald wrote: Darren J Moffat wrote: Kyle McDonald wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would such snapshots appear and where? (Again, I disliked the file;X notation and the fact that a manual purge was required). I agree about the ';x' What like a .zfs/snapshot directory :-) I was thinking more for a file by file access. Make it an extended attribute called .zfs/snapshot/. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Nicolas Williams wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:33:13AM -0500, Kyle McDonald wrote: Darren J Moffat wrote: Kyle McDonald wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would such snapshots appear and where? (Again, I disliked the file;X notation and the fact that a manual purge was required). I agree about the ';x' What like a .zfs/snapshot directory :-) I was thinking more for a file by file access. Make it an extended attribute called .zfs/snapshot/. Maybe I'm not up on how extended attributes work, but I don't see how that would let you review all the versions that file might have had. Use grep and diff on them like they're regular files. etc. -Kyle ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:57:12PM -0500, Kyle McDonald wrote: Nicolas Williams wrote: Make it an extended attribute called .zfs/snapshot/. Maybe I'm not up on how extended attributes work, but I don't see how that would let you review all the versions that file might have had. Use grep and diff on them like they're regular files. etc. man runat ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:49:56PM +1100, Nathan Kroenert wrote: It occurred to me that we are likely missing the point here because Uwe is thinking of this as a One User on a System sort of perspective, whereas most of the rest of us are thinking of it from a 'Solaris' perspective, where we are typically expecting the system to be running many applications / DB's / users all at the same time. I'm looking at it both ways. Either way one would want to know what snapshot is safe to restore to! Especially if there are _many_ snapshots automatically taken, as opposed to a few manually or manually scheduled snapshots/backups (one typically quiesces important apps before a backup starts). Nico -- ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Nicolas Williams wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:57:12PM -0500, Kyle McDonald wrote: Nicolas Williams wrote: Make it an extended attribute called .zfs/snapshot/. Maybe I'm not up on how extended attributes work, but I don't see how that would let you review all the versions that file might have had. Use grep and diff on them like they're regular files. etc. man runat Oh! Cool! Is that the only way to access those attributes? or just the one that's most likely to work? I can see how for running commands it'd be useful, but for interactive use it's too bad 'cd' can't work. or can it? I wasn't able to get it to. -Kyle ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 01:13:06PM -0500, Kyle McDonald wrote: Nicolas Williams wrote: man runat Oh! Cool! Is that the only way to access those attributes? or just the one that's most likely to work? man fsattr :) I can see how for running commands it'd be useful, but for interactive use it's too bad 'cd' can't work. or can it? I wasn't able to get it to. Er, good question! I think the shells would have to support it. A good question for Roland :) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Again, I disliked the file;X notation and the fact that a manual purge was required). You could set the number of revisions to keep; VMS would delete older ones. Michael -- Michael Schusterhttp://blogs.sun.com/recursion Recursion, n.: see 'Recursion' ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Nicolas Williams wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 01:13:06PM -0500, Kyle McDonald wrote: Nicolas Williams wrote: man runat Oh! Cool! Is that the only way to access those attributes? or just the one that's most likely to work? man fsattr :) I can see how for running commands it'd be useful, but for interactive use it's too bad 'cd' can't work. or can it? I wasn't able to get it to. Er, good question! I think the shells would have to support it. A good question for Roland :) The shells don't actually have to care: $ cd /tmp $ touch f1 $ runat f1 sh Now my shell is running in file f1's extended attribute space. $ ls SUNWattr_ro SUNWattr_rw $ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:31:09PM -0600, Chris Kirby wrote: Er, good question! I think the shells would have to support it. A good question for Roland :) The shells don't actually have to care: $ cd /tmp $ touch f1 $ runat f1 sh I know that works. But why start a new process when the shell could have a built-in (or mod to the cd built-in) that can do this? ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Nicolas Williams wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:31:09PM -0600, Chris Kirby wrote: Er, good question! I think the shells would have to support it. A good question for Roland :) The shells don't actually have to care: $ cd /tmp $ touch f1 $ runat f1 sh I know that works. But why start a new process when the shell could have a built-in (or mod to the cd built-in) that can do this? How was it MVFS could do this without any changes to the shells or any other programs? I ClearCase could 'grep FOO /dir1/dir2/file@@/main/*' to see which version of 'file' added FOO. (I think @@ was the special hidden key. It might have been something else though.) The shells accessed that path just like any other. 'ls' didn't show them, but if you accessed them they were there. -Kyle ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Kyle McDonald wrote: Nicolas Williams wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:31:09PM -0600, Chris Kirby wrote: The shells don't actually have to care: $ cd /tmp $ touch f1 $ runat f1 sh I know that works. But why start a new process when the shell could have a built-in (or mod to the cd built-in) that can do this? How was it MVFS could do this without any changes to the shells or any other programs? I ClearCase could 'grep FOO /dir1/dir2/file@@/main/*' to see which version of 'file' added FOO. (I think @@ was the special hidden key. It might have been something else though.) The shells accessed that path just like any other. 'ls' didn't show them, but if you accessed them they were there. -Kyle Via interposers, most likely. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Nicolas Williams wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:31:09PM -0600, Chris Kirby wrote: Er, good question! I think the shells would have to support it. A good question for Roland :) The shells don't actually have to care: $ cd /tmp $ touch f1 $ runat f1 sh I know that works. But why start a new process when the shell could have a built-in (or mod to the cd built-in) that can do this? Yep, that certainly could be done with just a few lines of code. I was just demonstrating that it could be done now, in an interactive session. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:31:09PM -0600, Chris Kirby wrote: Er, good question! I think the shells would have to support it. A good question for Roland :) The shells don't actually have to care: $ cd /tmp $ touch f1 $ runat f1 sh I know that works. But why start a new process when the shell could have a built-in (or mod to the cd built-in) that can do this? Change all shells (and make it only in the ones we changed, maintain deltas unless we can convince upstream, yadayadayada). New features should not be available as commands. Why optimize when performance is not an issue? Casper ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Via interposers, most likely. It's in the kernel so it didn't need to interpose; it just has that functionality in the kernel modules. Not POSIX compliant, but that's how it is. Casper ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] moving zfs filesystems between disks
I've just started using zfs. I copied data from a ufs filesystem on disk 1 to a zfs pool/filesystem on disk 2. Can I add disk 1 as a mirror for disk 2, and then remove disk 2 from the mirror, and end up with all the data back on disk 1 in zfs (after some amount of time, of course)? If disk 1 is larger than disk 2, will the larger amount of space be available after I remove the disk 2 mirror? (Disk 2 is a full disk, but disk 1 is actually just a partition of a disk. I assume that doesn't make any difference.) Thanks. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] moving zfs filesystems between disks
Yes. Just say this: # zpool replace mypool disk1 disk2 This will do all the intermediate steps you'd expect: attach disk2 as a mirror of disk1, resilver, detach disk2, and grow the pool to reflect the larger size of disk1. Jeff On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 04:48:59PM -0800, Bill Shannon wrote: I've just started using zfs. I copied data from a ufs filesystem on disk 1 to a zfs pool/filesystem on disk 2. Can I add disk 1 as a mirror for disk 2, and then remove disk 2 from the mirror, and end up with all the data back on disk 1 in zfs (after some amount of time, of course)? If disk 1 is larger than disk 2, will the larger amount of space be available after I remove the disk 2 mirror? (Disk 2 is a full disk, but disk 1 is actually just a partition of a disk. I assume that doesn't make any difference.) Thanks. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:36 PM, Uwe Dippel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was hoping to be clear with my examples. Within that 1 minute the user has easily received the mail alert that 5 mails have arrived, has seen the sender and deleted them. Without any trigger of some snapshot, or storage of that state while the messages were actually on the drive. No recovery possible. One minute is much too long. Taking the average reaction time of users, we cannot expect, on the other hand, that the user is able to perform more than two operations within less than a second (receiving the notice, recognising the sender, clicking 'Delete'). Uwe, In this case, it is easier for the email appliction to _not_ delete the email but just move it to a time-delayed trash. This is not dissimilar to what gmail did which gives you 30 days to regret your deleting decision. You will find that a lot of such protection is best implemented at the application level, e.g. Oracle transaction logs, because the data loses their meaning further down the stack. At the FS layer, it is best to think about how you can support the application to do what it wants instead of doing it for the application. -- Just me, Wire ... Blog: prstat.blogspot.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Marcus Sundman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darren J Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: Nicolas Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:54:29AM +0200, Marcus Sundman wrote: Nathan Kroenert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you indicating that the filesystem know's or should know what an application is doing?? Maybe snapshot file whenever a write-filedescriptor is closed or somesuch? Again. Not enough. Some apps (many!) deal with multiple files. So what? Why would every file-snapshot have to be a file that's valid for the application(s) using it? (Certainly zfs snapshots don't provide that property either, nor any other backup-related system I've seen.) If it isn't how does the user or application know that is safe to use that file ? Unless the files contain some checksum or somesuch then I guess it doesn't know it's safe. However, that's unavoidable unless the application can use a transaction-supporting fs api. Checksums only tell you the data file is good. If you have a whole load of backups (one every nano-second) and none of them have a good checksum, you are still very screwed. Is it okay to provide a snapshot of a file that is corrupt and will cause further more serious data corruption in the application ? Well, apparently so. That's what zfs snapshots do. That's what all backup tools do. Sure it would be better to have full transactions in the fs api, but without that I don't think it's possible to do any better than the file might be corrupt or it might not, good luck if your file format doesn't support corruption-detection. A good backup practice increases (significantly) the likelihood of getting a usable backup. E.g. you quiesce Oracle before you start your backup to make sure that the datafiles you backup are consistent. Still, you are missing the point. What's the point of backing up if you cannot use it for restoring your environment? -- Just me, Wire ... Blog: prstat.blogspot.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Can ZFS be event-driven or not?
Wee Yeh Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Marcus Sundman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darren J Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: Nicolas Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:54:29AM +0200, Marcus Sundman wrote: Nathan Kroenert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you indicating that the filesystem know's or should know what an application is doing?? Maybe snapshot file whenever a write-filedescriptor is closed or somesuch? Again. Not enough. Some apps (many!) deal with multiple files. So what? Why would every file-snapshot have to be a file that's valid for the application(s) using it? (Certainly zfs snapshots don't provide that property either, nor any other backup-related system I've seen.) If it isn't how does the user or application know that is safe to use that file ? Unless the files contain some checksum or somesuch then I guess it doesn't know it's safe. However, that's unavoidable unless the application can use a transaction-supporting fs api. Checksums only tell you the data file is good. If you have a whole load of backups (one every nano-second) and none of them have a good checksum, you are still very screwed. True. However, this is equally true for zfs snapshots. If I undestood the concept of CDP correctly then each zfs snapshot would provide a subset of the set of all versions in the CDP database. Thus, CDP couldn't possibly provide less protection than zfs snapshots (although it might be harder to find the right versions of files). So, if you think zfs snapshots provide enough protection then you can't claim CDP doesn't. Is it okay to provide a snapshot of a file that is corrupt and will cause further more serious data corruption in the application ? Well, apparently so. That's what zfs snapshots do. That's what all backup tools do. Sure it would be better to have full transactions in the fs api, but without that I don't think it's possible to do any better than the file might be corrupt or it might not, good luck if your file format doesn't support corruption-detection. A good backup practice increases (significantly) the likelihood of getting a usable backup. E.g. you quiesce Oracle before you start your backup to make sure that the datafiles you backup are consistent. True for both ZFS snapshots and CDP, except that with CDP you don't have to make the actual snapshot since that's automated. Still, you are missing the point. What's the point of backing up if you cannot use it for restoring your environment? I think you are missing the point if you think ZFS snapshots are capable of something CDP is not. Also, I though the author of the original message wasn't particularly interested in restoring the environment, but more about restoring individual files. As a kind of version history, or filesystem undo if you will. Maybe I misunderstood him. - Marcus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] utf8only-property
So, I set utf8only=on and try to create a file with a filename that is a byte array that can't be decoded to text using UTF-8. What's supposed to happen? Should fopen(), or whatever syscall 'touch' uses, fail? Should the syscall somehow escape utf8-incompatible bytes, or maybe replace them with ?s or somesuch? Or should it automatically convert the filename from the active locale's fs-encoding (LC_CTYPE?) to UTF-8? - Marcus ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
Marcus Sundman wrote: I'm unable to find more info about this. E.g., what does reject file names mean in practice? E.g., if a program tries to create a file using an utf8-incompatible filename, what happens? Does the fopen() fail? Would this normally be a problem? E.g., do tar and similar programs convert utf8-incompatible filenames to utf8 upon extraction if my locale (or wherever the fs encoding is taken from) is set to use utf-8? If they don't, then what happens with archives containing utf8-incompatible filenames? Note that the normal ZFS behavior is exactly what you'd expect: you get the filenames you wanted; the same ones back you put in. The trick is that in order to support such things as casesensitivity=false for CIFS, the OS needs to know what characters are uppercase vs lowercase, which means it needs to know about encodings, and reject codepoints which cannot be classified as uppercase vs lowercase. If you're not running a CIFS server, the defaults will allow you to create files w/ utf8 names very happily. : [EMAIL PROTECTED]; cat test Τη γλώσσα μου έδωσαν ελληνική : [EMAIL PROTECTED]; cat `cat test` this is a test w/ a utf8 filename : [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ls -l total 10 -rw-r--r-- 1 bartsstaff 37 Oct 22 15:45 Makefile -rw-r--r-- 1 bartsstaff 0 Oct 22 15:46 bar -rw-r--r-- 1 bartsstaff 0 Oct 22 15:46 foo -rw-r--r-- 1 bartsstaff 55 Feb 27 19:45 test -rw-r--r-- 1 bartsstaff301 Feb 27 19:44 test~ -rw-r--r-- 1 bartsstaff 34 Feb 27 19:46 Τη γλώσσα μου έδωσαν ελληνική : [EMAIL PROTECTED]; df -h . Filesystem size used avail capacity Mounted on zfs/home 228G 136G48G74%/export/home/cyber : [EMAIL PROTECTED]; - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blogs.sun.com/barts You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
Bart Smaalders wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: I'm unable to find more info about this. E.g., what does reject file names mean in practice? E.g., if a program tries to create a file using an utf8-incompatible filename, what happens? Does the fopen() fail? Would this normally be a problem? E.g., do tar and similar programs convert utf8-incompatible filenames to utf8 upon extraction if my locale (or wherever the fs encoding is taken from) is set to use utf-8? If they don't, then what happens with archives containing utf8-incompatible filenames? Note that the normal ZFS behavior is exactly what you'd expect: you get the filenames you wanted; the same ones back you put in. Does ZFS convert the strings to UTF-8 in this case or will it just store the multibyte sequence unmodified ? Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, CJAVASunUnix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
Roland Mainz wrote: Bart Smaalders wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: I'm unable to find more info about this. E.g., what does reject file names mean in practice? E.g., if a program tries to create a file using an utf8-incompatible filename, what happens? Does the fopen() fail? Would this normally be a problem? E.g., do tar and similar programs convert utf8-incompatible filenames to utf8 upon extraction if my locale (or wherever the fs encoding is taken from) is set to use utf-8? If they don't, then what happens with archives containing utf8-incompatible filenames? Note that the normal ZFS behavior is exactly what you'd expect: you get the filenames you wanted; the same ones back you put in. Does ZFS convert the strings to UTF-8 in this case or will it just store the multibyte sequence unmodified ? ZFS doesn't muck with names it is sent when storing them on-disk. The on-disk name is exactly the sequence of bytes provided to the open(), creat(), etc. If normalization options are chosen, it may do some manipulation of the byte strings *when comparing* names, but the on-disk name should be untouched from what the user requested. -tim Bye, Roland ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Possible interest for ZFS encryption
Ian Collins wrote: Disk encryption easily defeated, research shows http://www.itpro.co.uk/storage/news/170304/disk-encryption-easily-defeated-research-shows.html Freezing RAM, whatever next? Ian Interesting... although not leaving system suspended to ram and zeroing ram on shutdown would seem simple to implement safeguards. Yes, if someone steals the laptop while you're using it you've got problems :-) - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blogs.sun.com/barts You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
Tim Haley wrote: Roland Mainz wrote: Bart Smaalders wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: I'm unable to find more info about this. E.g., what does reject file names mean in practice? E.g., if a program tries to create a file using an utf8-incompatible filename, what happens? Does the fopen() fail? Would this normally be a problem? E.g., do tar and similar programs convert utf8-incompatible filenames to utf8 upon extraction if my locale (or wherever the fs encoding is taken from) is set to use utf-8? If they don't, then what happens with archives containing utf8-incompatible filenames? Note that the normal ZFS behavior is exactly what you'd expect: you get the filenames you wanted; the same ones back you put in. Does ZFS convert the strings to UTF-8 in this case or will it just store the multibyte sequence unmodified ? ZFS doesn't muck with names it is sent when storing them on-disk. The on-disk name is exactly the sequence of bytes provided to the open(), creat(), etc. If normalization options are chosen, it may do some manipulation of the byte strings *when comparing* names, but the on-disk name should be untouched from what the user requested. Ok... that was the part which I was _praying_ for... :-) ... just some background (for those who may be puzzled by the statement above): The conversion to Unicode is not always lossless (Unicode is sometimes marketed as convert-any-encoding-to-unicode-without-loosing-any-information) ... for example if you have a mixed-language ISO-2022 character sequence the conversion to Unicode will use the language information itself and converting it back to an ISO-2022 sequence will result in a different multibyte sequence than the original input (the issue could be worked-around by inserting the language tag characters to preserve this information but almost every converter doesn't do that (and since these tags are outside the BMP you have to pray that everything in the toolchain works with Unicode charcters beyond 65535) ... ;-( ). Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, CJAVASunUnix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] path-name encodings
Roland Mainz wrote: Tim Haley wrote: Roland Mainz wrote: Bart Smaalders wrote: Marcus Sundman wrote: I'm unable to find more info about this. E.g., what does reject file names mean in practice? E.g., if a program tries to create a file using an utf8-incompatible filename, what happens? Does the fopen() fail? Would this normally be a problem? E.g., do tar and similar programs convert utf8-incompatible filenames to utf8 upon extraction if my locale (or wherever the fs encoding is taken from) is set to use utf-8? If they don't, then what happens with archives containing utf8-incompatible filenames? Note that the normal ZFS behavior is exactly what you'd expect: you get the filenames you wanted; the same ones back you put in. Does ZFS convert the strings to UTF-8 in this case or will it just store the multibyte sequence unmodified ? ZFS doesn't muck with names it is sent when storing them on-disk. The on-disk name is exactly the sequence of bytes provided to the open(), creat(), etc. If normalization options are chosen, it may do some manipulation of the byte strings *when comparing* names, but the on-disk name should be untouched from what the user requested. Ok... that was the part which I was _praying_ for... :-) ... just some background (for those who may be puzzled by the statement above): The conversion to Unicode is not always lossless (Unicode is sometimes marketed as convert-any-encoding-to-unicode-without-loosing-any-information) ... for example if you have a mixed-language ISO-2022 character sequence the conversion to Unicode will use the language information itself s/use/loose/ ... sorry... Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, CJAVASunUnix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] moving zfs filesystems between disks
Oops -- I transposed 1 and 2 in the last sentence. Corrected version, and hopefully a bit easier to read: # zpool replace mypool olddisk newdisk This will do all the intermediate steps you'd expect: attach newdisk as a mirror of olddisk, resilver, detach olddisk, and grow the pool to reflect the larger size of newdisk. Jeff On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 05:04:02PM -0800, Jeff Bonwick wrote: Yes. Just say this: # zpool replace mypool disk1 disk2 This will do all the intermediate steps you'd expect: attach disk2 as a mirror of disk1, resilver, detach disk2, and grow the pool to reflect the larger size of disk1. Jeff On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 04:48:59PM -0800, Bill Shannon wrote: I've just started using zfs. I copied data from a ufs filesystem on disk 1 to a zfs pool/filesystem on disk 2. Can I add disk 1 as a mirror for disk 2, and then remove disk 2 from the mirror, and end up with all the data back on disk 1 in zfs (after some amount of time, of course)? If disk 1 is larger than disk 2, will the larger amount of space be available after I remove the disk 2 mirror? (Disk 2 is a full disk, but disk 1 is actually just a partition of a disk. I assume that doesn't make any difference.) Thanks. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] ZFS vs. Novell NSS
I gave a talk on ZFS at a local user group meeting this evening. What I didn't know going in was that the meeting was hosted at a Novell consulting shop. I got asked a lot of what does ZFS do that NSS doesn't do questions that I could not answer (mostly because I know almost nothing about Novell). Is there some white paper or something on the topic? I am not on the zfs discuss list, so please remember to include my e-mail address on any response. alan ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
