for the last few weeks (at least), i've been unable to really use the
9p access to the wiki. it connects, the Wiki client brings things up and
can brows around, but the channel gets hung up on in only a few
seconds (seems like ~15, although i've not timed it accurately). i've
tried this from
I have a VM that I created under Parallels 5 and am currently running under 6.
It's several months old.
1. ps2intellimouse: scrolling works if you're scrolling down, but if you make
the scroll up gesture, the mouse skitters off to the right and really doesn't
scroll back up. Anyone seen
In addition to the tree Andrey noted, the general
answer is simply to download the normal distribution
image and use that. The effect is the same as using
the tree Andrey pointed to and updating, but you'll
save yourself time and work by just grabbing the
current image.
On May 2, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Jack Norton wrote:
I'd claim that most sites these days lend well to being translated
as NNTP news feeds. Most sites are people 'posting' crap and
thoughts on said crap at regular intervals.
maybe by number, but that's not really a useful metric. this model
would
On Apr 29, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
On 27 Apr 2011, at 6:47 pm, Anthony Sorace wrote:
• Unification of X11 code and wsys device, by Jesús Galán López [1]
[...]
[1]
http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/yiyus/1
I'm a bit curious
On Apr 28, 2011, at 3:29 PM, dexen deVries wrote:
the current hacker-unfriendlines of linux (a.k.a. `user
friendlines') is the price paid for vide driver support.
perhaps in some vague philosophical terms, but certainly
that isn't any sort of actual engineering trade-off. you also
seem to be
Folks:
The official selection of project for our participation in GSoC is now
complete. We ended up selecting two proposals. They are:
• Unification of X11 code and wsys device, by Jesús Galán López [1]
• Replace html generation in wikifs(4), by Mikhail Kuryshev [2]
Folks signed
Folks:
Student applications close in just under 4 hours, at 19:00 UTC[0].
That's still plenty of time to get a good proposal in, and we could still use
more. If you're on the fence or have been putting it off, consider this your
kick to get moving. To apply, go to Plan 9's home page in
On Apr 7, 2011, at 11:45, Paul Lalonde wrote:
Fortunately you can build a case-insensitive file system on a mac, within a
file.
Just in case this wasn't obvious, you can do this with the real, on-disk
filesystem, too. There's no upgrading an existing FS, so this is most
practical when
On Apr 4, 2011, at 17:35, smi...@zenzebra.mv.com wrote:
All combined (forking read/test/echo, forking awk/sed/dd, parsing
/mnt/acme/%d/events, etc.)... this, I think, is why languages like Perl
came into existence and became so popular. I could definitely write an
Acme event parser in Perl,
On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Jacob Todd wrote:
There's 'Document formatting and Typesetting on the Unix System, Vol. I II'
by Narain Gehani and Steven Lally. They're available on alibris at a cheap
price. I unfortunately haven't had time to read them yet. I know there's also
more listed at
On Mar 16, 2011, at 17:30, Iruatã Souza wrote:
adiff may be a good place to look at too.
A while ago I also wrote cdiff, which you put in the tag line of an
adiff window and it'll plumb successive change pairs, bringing up
the relevant sections in each file. It is not well tested, but there's
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Folks:
Our application to Google Summer of Code 2011 is now in. Google
begins reviewing organization applications on Monday, and is expected
to announce the accepted organizations on the 18th, a week from
today. We have until 23:00 UTC to
// I can't rememberif he actually called them an
// abomination, but at the same time, onewas left
// with the feeling that he might have.
Geoff's explanation to me a long time ago wasn't quite as emotional, but was
quite helpful for understanding what was actually going on:
They're not 'keep
Any plans to participate this year?
Yes; I'm working on it. We've got a handful of great mentors lined up
already, and I'm working on the application and wiki docs. Expect a
more formal announcement later today.
In the mean time, if you'd like to follow along with the Plan 9 GSoC
goodness,
I hadn't thought of erik's answer. I usually end up doing something
like cat `{ls | grep -v hola} or the like. I find that easier to read,
unless you're really restricted to literally using just rc for some reason.
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No big mystery: the Bell Labs folks are more
conservative about folding in certain kinds
of changes than Erik is.
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Just to address the unanswered Limbo questions:
The only Limbo compilers extant compile to a portable bytecode for the Dis
virtual machine. The only first-class Dis implementation is built into Inferno.
Dis can be either interpreted or just-in-time compiled. The historical claim
was a that the
I've not looked closely at push, but I assume it uses the same /rc/lib/rcmain
as, well, rc. See that file for the trick: it sets the prompt to that if your
running a $O.out, so you know.
anth
I know it's come up several times, but has anyone actually
gotten anywhere with a PAM module which authenticates
against factotum (preferable) or does p9any/p9sk1 itself?
Any stage of progress would be welcome.
After running something like the following on the server:
: root; auth/rsagen -b 2048 -t 'service=tls owner=*' /tmp/keykey
: root; auth/rsa2x509 'C=US CN=9srv.net' /tmp/key | auth/pemencode
CERTIFICATE /tmp/cert
: root; cat /tmp/key /mnt/factotum/ctl
: root;
I use vac -a to back up several unix systems to my main Plan 9 file server.
Currently I'm doing two nightly via cron and two sporadically (laptops); there
have been more of each in the past. In addition to storing the scores locally,
I wrote a little rc script that lives in /rc/bin/service.auth
On Nov 14, 2010, at 1:26, Russ Cox r...@swtch.com wrote:
[a bunch of very reasonable stuff]
I clearly didn't write that well because Russ just disagreed with me by saying
exactly what I was trying to say: the approaches ask and answer different
questions. My main interest was to point out that
On Nov 13, 2010, at 21:17, Gary V. Vaughan wrote:
People like to beat on GNU Libtool, and in some cases that criticism is
not undeserved... but in my experience, many critics of the tool come
from a perspective of building on a single architecture. If you have
never tried to build and link
Anyone considering things like that should also be familiar with the Styx on a
Brick work, where the Vita Nuova guys stuck a Styx interface on a Lego
mindstorm controller brick. The interface layering from the raw serial
interface up through something which you wrote times to (and the clickable
I've misplaced my USB audio kit, but I'm reasonably sure I read from /dev/audio
(and a cursory reading of the source suggests that ought to work). Is there any
reason to do otherwise? I don't know what audioin is intended to buy. Given
that it's never been in audio(3), I'm not sure it's
the other problem with both volume and audioctl will come with multiple
streams. in1 and out1 might work, but it starts to look ugly. usbaudio
appears to ignore multiple inputs or outputs.
i'm not entirely sure what you mean by streams in this context. multiple
inputs or outputs? if so, my
They're different things. monitor=vesa is special in that it tells vga(8) to
use the VESA bios calls; xga is just another monitor definition and will try to
go through a card-specific driver. All other things being equal, non-vesa stuff
will generally yield better performance. Some of the
I'm more interested in what this means for Coraid? If Oracle buckles
under then zfs ports to Linux et al. is doomed.
It's unlikely Oracle will buckle, although it's theoretically possible
they'll lose. That would uphold NetApp's patents and potentially make
the use of ZFS illegal without
Does this mean that for all intents and purposes, Plan9 can be
considered EPL (even if licence notices say otherwise)?
The short answer is no. You don't get to change the license, even if
you or some other body decide the terms are equivelent in some way.
You're given the software under
Ah, right. I meant you don't get to change which license you got the
software under. It wasn't my intent to imply one couldn't relicense
differently. Thanks for clarifying.
On May 26, 2010, at 8:42, Charles Forsyth fors...@terzarima.net wrote:
You don't get to change the license
``3.
anyone ever used one of the minipci
versions of the orinoco cards?
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for the mac the documentation says ctrl+click is equal to right click
and option+click is middle click. It works fine using them with acme,
but I cant seem to make a new window in rio?
for right click, you want command+click, not control+click. works here,
and is the same in 9vx. You can fake a
I suspect the reaction is based on being forced to use it when you'd
rather not, like many residential ISPs require. It's particularly
upsetting when the CPE doesn't even have a globally routable address.
How much is many?
Um, some? I don't have any sort of global count. I've had 7 broadband
ron said:
Oh, and, it is likely that when we issue that many or more reads, we
want a flow controlled network. Just guessing :-)
You'd want one, sure. But (unless I'm missing something) it doesn't
seem that increasing the number of outstanding messages would
*require* it (your
Both fossil and kfs seem like the wrong tool for your job. In
addition to the robustness questions, they (especially fossil)
include features you're not going to get anything out of in
your environment. If you use something like paqfs(4) or
sacfs(4) (not sure which is more appropriate) you'll get
On a real plan 9 system, you create the user at the file server
console, then log in as that user and run newuser. That first step
creates /usr/$user. The analogue in 9vx is at least 'mkdir /usr/
$user', and (less likely) possibly creating the actual user in the
unix world, depending on
I really don't understand why people don't line contrib and want to
put stuff in /opt or $home/bin.
That's a false dichotiomy. I quite like replica/contrib, but I also
think there's some value to /opt packages. They answer two different
questions.
Plan9 is susposed to be all about
Unix has two camps for approaching this problem /usr/local and /opt.
While they're almost never followed well on modern unix systems, the
idea is basically a global local overlay vs. a per-package overlay.
The /usr/local approach takes all packages not part of the base
system and creates
You should also add:
http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s
Which returns 1062 lines of HTML+Javascript, completely unreadable
in Abaco.
not to spoil the irony, but that works here. it drops indentation, but
that
hardly qualifies as completely unreadable.
On my system, /mail/box is mode 775. This matches what's on sources.
So... how is the mail -c call in newuser supposed to work for normal
(ie: not in group sys) users?
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We're in.
In the next few days, we need to polish our materials for students,
flesh out our ideas list[1], and confirm our mentors. If you're
interested in following progress with Plan 9's GSoC activities, please
join the plan9-gsoc google group[2]; if you're interested in becoming
a
Erik asked:
does anyone with a 2e licence know if plumber used to accept rules
like this; that is shell script fragments?
It did not - because the plumber did not exist in 2e or earlier. Like
a handful of other things, it was originally drafted for Inferno and
then backported (with
Folks:
The application period for organizations wishing to participate in
GSoC is now open. I started our application today; all is going well.
Most of it is very straight-forward, based on what we did last year,
what worked well, and so on. There's a few things I'd like to get
community
We have fgb's contrib, and before that just the INDEX files in /
contrib on sources. Neither is a perfect solution, but I don't think
the problem here would be addressed by the Labs providing some new
resource. Between the above and the wiki, there's plenty of
opportunity for folks to make
Lyndon said:
You can also grab /n/sources/contrib/lyndon/contribindex which
generates a pretty-printed listing of people's contrib/*/INDEX files.
There's been several of these. Note that I run one to update the
contrib index on the wiki more or less daily. That version includes
both
we want to make slightly higher demands of
applicants. I'll be posting a revision for discussion shortly.
Anthony Sorace
Strand 1
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Google's Summer of Code is on for 2010. We had a very good year in
2009, and I intend to submit an application for Plan 9 (and related
projects/technologies) again. I've created a page on our wiki for info
and ideas for our participation:
, I spend most of my interactive time in 9vx. Is anyone
working on getting the multi-touch stuff working in 9vx?
Anthony Sorace
Strand 1
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?
Anthony Sorace
Strand 1
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It happens that I bought Parallels 5 two or three days ago. Upon
upgrading my
Plan 9 VM from Parallels 3 (skipped a version), it stopped working.
I've not had
time to dig in, nor to try a fresh install. The Plan 9 version on
there had not been
kept up to date, so Geoff's info is likely more
Rog said:
that's why breadth-first might be useful, by putting
shallower files earlier in the search results - i often
do grep foo *.[ch] */*.[ch] */*/*.[ch] to achieve
a similar result, but you have to guess the depth that way.
for what it's worth, dan's walk.c has a -d option for limiting
I'm interested in the changes, although I'm mostly using 9vx rather
than drawterm. I tried to get ktrans running again a few months ago
and couldn't make it work, regardless of trigger. Is there an updated
version of that available somewhere, as well?
there's a group called Rosetta that came out of another meeting at the GSoC
mentor's summit for non-linux OS users (good meeting, although not quite as
amusing as the Troll Like a Pro session). the folks at the meeting all thought
their biggest problem was lack of driver support, and the Rosetta
where's my ethernet mouse? ;-)
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:20, erik quanstrom quans...@coraid.com wrote:
That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost always seems a
better deal than using USB.
coraid agrees. except for the almost part.
- erik
erik wrote:
// how to troll like a pro!
see, i was paying attention!
bill wrote:
// ...a questionable example...
if you have a lab of terminals but only one or two have a working
sound card and speakers, it can make good sense. first time i saw
that was a demo for something unrelated; we were
the most notable differences are that (by default) the network stack
is very stripped down and the file system goes through a special
pass-through driver (#Z) rather than fossil or whatnot. there are
patches to change both behaviors (use a tun device to allocate a
virtual interface to 9vx; use raw
For my company, I generate contracts using troff on Plan 9. The
contracts all contain my digital signature - that is, a postscript
image of my signature - like so:
.BP /usr/a/Pictures/sigs/signature.ps .5l
I generate postscript for these documents like so:
troff -mm -mpictures foo.mm | lp
// Since the purpose of ape is to emulate the environment
// configure is expected to run in...
false premise. the purpose of ape is to provide an ANSI/POSIX environment.
it's purpose is as much for outbound porting as inbound, and maintaining the
actual target is more important in that
as i understand it, proper android stuff is meant to be in their
java flavor. you can load C programs, but i think only with the
dev tools. what's more, the system doesn't have the full library
we're used to on unix-like systems. i'd be fairly surprised if our
stuff (inferno, p9p, or drawterm)
i know very little about existing chinese input methods, so this is more a
question for my own understanding than a suggestion, but:
there is ktrans for Plan 9; the latest version i'm aware of is described here:
http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/s39.html
although that page is a bit
lots of romance languages have exactly that characteristic, though
(maybe other languages, too). see C and G in italian. ci is simply
pronounced correctly as chi.
that's a whole different problem, though.
your first problem was whether japanese would have some sort of
new or unique problem with an alphabet given the absence of certain
syllables (like shi) from the language. the answer is, of course, no:
the language would fall into either of the two extant
Akshat said:
// Considering that Plan 9 has only two inherent languages...
I'm curious which two you meant. Most of the code running on my Plan 9
installations is written in either C or rc. For code I've written running on it,
Limbo is about as high. And of course there's a little assembly down
that wiki writeup isn't really right. importing /net isn't NAT in any
sort of technical sense; rather, it's what plan 9 does instead.
there's no translation of ports or addresses, it's more
(conceptually) like a straight multiplexing.
not directly. on my server running cwfs, i have this in /cfg/host/cpustart:
srv -e 'cwfs -ca tcp!*!54321 -m /sys/lib/arkive/devmap w4' arkivecons
which creates /srv/arkivecons. i can then 'con /srv/arkivecons' to get at the
console in more or less the same way as fscons.
yes, having this score makes your files available to anyone with
access to your venti. i'd suggest keeping it off the public network,
assuming you have things on there you care about.
Less of a here's my experience than a summary of earlier
conversations with various people, but still perhaps relevant or
helpful:
0) Venti contains neither authentication nor authorization. If you
care, you are advised to stick it on a trusted network, or listen only
on loopback.
1) The venti
i certainly can't speak for the original designers, but i'd say
aesthetics, mostly. putting bin before the arch type allows you to
simply have fewer things in your home directory, which makes looking
around easier. you can't really do that in the root. well, you could,
binding, for example,
you need venti for dumps, but not snapshots. do 9fs snap and then
see if there's anything in /n/snap. these are ephemeral, not archival.
i don't believe fossil ships with these turned on by default, so
you're likely SOL, sorry.
assuming my memory from my last install is correct, and it's not
Devon H. O'Delldevon.od...@gmail.com wrote:
// This is easily demonstrable with rhythm games (such as Rock
// Band or Guitar Hero) where latency induced by a home audio
// system (mine at home is about 15ms induced by my receiver
// and 5ms using the Xbox digital output) can have a very
//
you need to read fossilcons(8) for how to turn them on.
the man page makes clear (i think) that there are two types of
snapshots, archival and not. i think the default behavior is
explained, too (see the description of snaptime).
James Tomaschkeja...@orcasystems.com wrote:
// ...you limit freedom by placing a simple interface into kernelspace.
are you serious?
Lawrence E. Bakstm...@iridescent.org wrote:
// I only want to point out that OS X has had an option for case sensitive
// versions of the HFS+ file system for some time now.
// ...It seems to work and I don't think there is much downside to using it,
// although I am not sure I would format my
i think russ has it exactly right: keep the kernel driver as simple as
is practical, do whatever else you want in user space. for /dev/audio,
i wouldn't suggest anything beyond plan 9's audio(3) as is. i'd
suggest some cleanup of the surround (kill /dev/volume, rationalize
/dev/audioctl), but the
Tim Newshamnews...@lava.net wrote:
// Yah, this format doesnt come up that often.. perhaps its not
// worth the effort, but then again the ability to switch a device's
// encoding isnt very much work either... About as hard as
// changing the sampling rate or turning stereo on and off...
i'd
the CD includes sources to the kernel on platforms which required NDAs
to get the information to do the port. part of the NDA, as i
understand it, required the sorts of restrictions on redistribution in
the commercial license. people have tried to get at least some bits of
that opened up, and at
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:45, ron minnichrminn...@gmail.com wrote:
I wonder how many of the companies involved still exist :-)
i suspect ron knows all this already; this is intended for anyone else
who comes along and thinks this might make getting 2e CDs out easier
(instead of harder). again,
Ethan wrote:
// Oh God, not the everyday examples == proof argument, PLEASE.
Er, what? everyday examples are a perfectly good existence proof,
which is all they're being used for here. You seem to be after a more
universal correctness sort of proof, for which they're entirely
inappropriate, but
the floppies were available without the book+cd; at least as late as
1996 i remember downloading them from att's web site. they
represented a fairly minimal system. i don't remember specifically,
but it seems likely that there were license terms specific to the
download.
this is silly. the philosophy has been explained. several people have
given lots of real world usage where it holds up just fine. i'd go
as far as to say the vast majority of plan9 installations are in such
environments.
but regardless, correcting what may be a whole in your environment is
easy;
This came up on #plan9: There's a set of programs, sig and comp, for
detecting similarities between files, attributed to Rob Pike. I've
found some updated versions, but I don't really like the updates as
described and the are no notes of what the code changes were. I'd love
to see the originals
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 14:17, erik quanstromquans...@coraid.com wrote:
assuming honest mtbf numbers, one would expect similar
ures for the same io workload on the same size data set
as mechanical disks. since flash drives are much smaller,
there would obviously be fewer ures per drive. but
a few things:
1) note that when the web site is down, sources may still be up
(someone in IRC made this mistake). i run an automated availability
check of sources every 10 minutes and didn't see an outage.
2) Ethan, i'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your comment is
entirely unhelpful
i don't believe so. i've made a number of false starts and would like
to return to it some day. there's some very simple interpreters out
there (including one by ken[1] for old unix systems) that might be
worth looking at if you want to work on a port and performance isn't
critical. note that i
i've got a cwfs based on an old fs(4). it gets used infrequently;
about a month and a haf ago it sufferend a power outage and i just
left it off, since i'd not touched it for a few weeks before that.
today i brought the thing back up, and the active fs is unhappy. on
boot, it reports it can't
none does not (normally) give you read-only access; if something is
world-writable, none will be able to write it. but getting read-only
is pretty easy; see exportfs(4) and the files which use it in
/rc/bin/service. from emory, i'd say exec /bin/exportfs -Rr
/lib/music would do what you want.
for the from anywhere part, just use .+ as the host regexp. the
anyone part also doesn't really apply: the files don't affect who
can connect or read things, just what the mapping is done as (iirc,
world readable is still world readable). if you just want to not
bother with the passwd and group
cdfs(4) contains a paragraph in BUGS that reads:
Closing a just-written DVD-R track can take minutes while
the drive burns the unused part of the track reservation
(for the whole disc). Thus only a single DVD-R track can be
written on a DVD-R disc; use
all that information is for the second edition. the third edition
involved a pretty substantial set of internal changes. things were
improved in almost every way, but one casualty was much of the
platform support in the cpu/terminal kernel. in particular, we don't
run on the NeXT boxes any more.
Folks:
The contrib index on the wiki [1] hadn't been updated in a long time;
I'm
now automatically regenerating it nightly. I've made some minor changes to the
script that does the updates; the most significant is that INDEX files can now
describe files and directories arbitrarily deep in
$home/lib/profile is run on login; you can stick arbitrary commands in
there. note rio's -i option. take a look at glenda's lib/profile and
bin/rc/riostart for examples.
running c: has a good chance of finding and mounting a FAT
partition; see dossrv(4). note that c: and dosmnt, like many other
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 07:17, Mathieu Lonjaret wrote:
// Running 9vx is not exactly the same as running a cpu/file server...
This is certainly true, but isn't really relevant here.
If you're looking to do ad hoc sharing, the easiest way is probably
with listen1, exportfs, and import. I just
Jim Habegger wrote:
// Adding a new user:
that's not a 9vx issue; either you're misreading the documentation or
it's incorrectly written (i'm not sure which bit you're reading for
that). those commands are intended to be given to the file server,
fossil, after connecting to the console posted in
the idea is interesting, but it's a compliment, not a replacement.
there's plenty of situations where installing something on all your
hosts is either impractical or undesirable; centralizing the work in
network infrastructure is often a big win. doing what you describe
hits a different set of use
Folks:
GSoC progresses well. We have a preliminary slot allocation which
should be finalized on wednesday. The list of accepted student
proposals comes out a week from today. We're having a mentors meeting
tomorrow to resolve any internal conflicts, and there's a GSoC-wide
meeting for admins to
right on schedule!
http://9fans.net/archive/2001/05/482 (may 31 2001)
http://9fans.net/archive/2005/05/69 (may 7 2005)
okay, that timing's just freaky.
from the man pages^W^Wpdf:
// FUTURE DIRECTIONS
//
// None.
we should be so lucky.
Folks:
There's just over 3 days left for student applications. We've got a
few very nice applications in so far, but would love to see plenty
more. If you're considering submitting an application, I'd encourage
you to do so. If you're unsure about some aspect, come hang out in
#plan9-gsoc on
it seems like a reasonable start to me, at least, but i don't know as
much as i could about the internals of linuxemu (i haven't really
looked inside since russ's initial version). the current maintainer is
frequently found in #plan9 on irc.freenode.net; i'd encourage you to
pop in there and see
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