After this fact the colliding block is itself very interesting,
aand it is also very likely that theis block will be stored and
archived just for this reason.
Which will increase the chance of a failure ;-O
by how much? the fact that something *could* happen is often
meaningless. what is
There is a possibility that a meteorite will crush your head any
moment, there are some statistics about how probable this, but as you
say, they are not reliable, so best go live in a very deep cave, just
make sure there is no Internet access, the world will be grateful for
it.
actually, the
But for HA applications, we still need some additional redundancy
or at least some error diagnostics at application level. Well,
we'll most likely needs this anyways, eg. to detect human fault
or code bugs.
My current idea is to use two separate hash functions in parallel
(as many sw
Probably for the same reason I do when the occasion arises.
It is conveniently a rescue environment too.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Pietro Gagliardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why are you running from a live CD?
i find it even more convienent to leave a small kfs around and leave
a
I can't see why this should have been necessary - libc contains memcpy
already. I have just updated /n/sources/xen/xen3 so it compiles with
the current Plan 9 kernel source (using Xen 3.0.2). I made the other
changes you listed, but I didn't have to do anything about memcpy.
the reason it's
I tryed both compiling the kernel with xen 3.2.0 and xen 3.0.2 include files
with the same result
I've debugging active on xen so I will paste at the end what happens
In any case it's odd that the kernels from /n/sources/xen/xen3 boots smoothly
on xen 3.2.0
[without venti of course ] while
On Mar 4, 2008, at 8:00 PM, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
some thoughts about venti that go around in my mind:
1. how stable is the keying ? sha-1 has only 160 bits, while
data blocks may be up to 56k long. so, the mapping is only
unique into one direction (not one-to-one). how can we be
install.log was no help, the message I quoted was everything
relevant.
I took a stab at running gdb through yacc, but the compiler
optimized the code to the point finding the problem was
nearly impossible.best I can say is its somewhere in the
dofmt() function (lib9/fmt/dofmt.c) or
For what its worth, I just added the following lines to
yacc.c at the top of the file:
#include stdio.h
#define sprint sprintf
The build of plan9port just completed with no errors, the
problem is somewhere in sprint().
I'll try and find time tonight to test out the plan9port
build
On the LINUX machines running utf-8 the ä is coded as $C3A4 which is
in utf-8 equal to the character E4. The ä occupies in that way 2 bytes.
I was very astonished, when I copied a mac-filename, pasted into a
texteditor and looked at the file:
In the mac-filename the letter ä is coded
In fact the more I think about it, the more it seems like having
a direct way of manipulating L1/L2 caches would be more of a benefit
than a curse at this point. Prefetches are nothing but a patchwork
over the fundamental need for programming memory hierarchy in an
efficient way. But, I
I'm trying to install plan9 under Xen 3.2.0 with venti
but the kernel avaiable on the web is too old to support nventi.
perhaps you mean that this kernel has an old venti linked in?
I had a problem of type in xendat.h fixed by replacing
uint8 with uint at line 1540
i suspect you mean
Yes. Although I work for a company that prides itself on its cache
coherence know-how, I'm very much a believer in networked
multiprocessors, even on a chip. I like Cell better than Opteron,
for example. They are harder to program up front, however, which
causes difficulties in
I'm seeing some odd (wrong) behavior with Plan 9's upas/fs and was
wondering of others have seen it, before I start digging further. I
use upas/fs to talk to a local mailbox and two IMAP servers. The local
store and one of the IMAP servers work reliably correctly. On the
other IMAP server,
Almost certainly. And so is C. Programming many-core shared-cache
machines in languages with global state and aliasing is just plain
wrong, in the same way that programming in assembly instead of C is
wrong. Add a highly heterogeneous real-time task mix on top of that,
and you're
If GNU was so reliable we wouldn't see the C compiler generate random
opcodes for architectures we use at my work. And that's *with* the 4x
toolchain.
I think we've all had enough software evangelism. Everyone has bugs. GNU
is absolutely no exception.
they do, with complete reliability,
During boot, I get:
pcirouting: South Bridge , not found
and later:
pcirouting: Cannot find south bridge PCI.255.31.7
Do any of you know what might be going on? Any suggestions as to how I might
get Plan 9 going on this hardware?
i don't think the problem is your south
hmmm... I'm not getting this, my patch just adds
an int color to the ruler item.
don't know where did those rectangles came from.
older patch? it's not something i added but it is (was)
required for abaco at some point.
- erik
i believe the patch is out-of-date. this is a diff
against the current html.h
; 9diff html.h
/n/sources/plan9//sys/include/html.h:173,178 - html.h:173,179
Item* next; /* successor in list of items */
int width; /* width in pixels (0 for floating items) */
i'm not arguing for or against the idea here, just want to point
out that i don't think syntax is the limiting factor.
if « and » are not acceptable, then we can reuse existing characters.
having ^ and $ loose their idempotency would not be a large inconvience.
^^ and $$ could easily do.
adding
i had to dig this off 9fans.net/archive. htmlfmt does some very bad things
with non-ascii characters. i hope i put them back correctly.
Yes, and then there is locale: does [a-z] include ij when you run it
in Holland (it should)? Does it include á, è, ô in France (it should)?
Does it include
I ordered an extra 5 a couple of years ago when work got me a system
through them; it's almost time to order 5 more.
do the cats get them?
my rabbit got two last month. it's those t-t-teeth.
- erik
I thought it was obvious that the output was from a 'standard' Plan 9
terminal. But given the percentage of people actually using plan9 in
this list, I guess I should have been much more explicit.
And the problem is precisely that the environment under which awk run
commands is completely
There is split and other functions,
for example:
toupper(aí)
gives
Aí
My guess is that there are many more little (or not) corners where it
doesn't work.
We can go on and on looking for crevices and hiding the bugs further
under the rug
so that they are not evident and find everyone
like a dog?
- erik
key word - Fixed
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 4:24 PM, ron minnich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
we were talking about Gorka.
I added at least 20 years to his age when I fixed his Mac.
I think this has come up before, but I didn't found reply.
If I do in awk something like:
split($0, c, );
c should be an array of Runes internally, UTF externally, but apparently,
it is not. Is it just broken?, is there a replacement?, is it just the
builtins or
is the whole awk
And it's wonderful that the C standard defines a character literal as
so:
char-literal:
' characters '
characters:
character
characters character
(or something like that)
Question, then: why do we need wchar_t/Rune?
because
thanks for catching that.
my brain's not on today. generally i avoid the mb functions because they
rely on locale. of course this doesn't apply on plan 9 and so there's no reason
for utf8len.
it looks like mblen is used elsewhere; perhaps this would now be a worthwhile
patch.
- erik
Plan 9
On Tue Feb 26 17:30:47 EST 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.pcengines.ch/alix1c.htm
Have you got a plan9 compatible SATA card to
work inb the pci slot?
This could replace my noisy and power
hungry home server.
this card is pci-x, but does work in pci slots:
I also tried to netboot from my existing cpu/auth/file server. The
netboot ROM on the ethernet downloads the kernel but couldn't seem to
find a spot in memory to put it[1], so I grabbed gPXE 0.9.3 from
http://www.etherboot.org/ and built an ISO. The last thing I see there
is Booting from
if i'm reading the output you've sent correctly, linux is getting
the interrupt mappings from ACPI not the MP table. and your
mp table is broken. i don't know very much about linux irq
handling or acpi irq tables, but it's likely that your mb manufacturer
didn't think a full mp table was worth
i have a quick question: any guess on whether lan1641 will work? i think it
should wok since it has National Semiconductor DP83816 chip but just wanted
to confirm.
i have a 4801 with a 3 dp83816 chips and it works fine.
- erik
couple of questions related to this posting as well as your previous one on
soekris box:
- will this work for 5501 as well?
- did u get as many as 8 ethernet ports working?
i am thinking of getting 5501 and trying plan9/inferno.
i don't know. i don't have a 5501. by the way i should
i feel your pain. i have a new motherboard with some bad entries in the mp
table, too.
Not surprising. What we see, all the time, is that the mobo makers
just barely understand these tables, and usually get them quite wrong.
We've also seen cases where the MP table for one board was
thanks for the information, geoff.
do you happen to know if the sata and pata ports are
independent?
another point of data, the 4801 also works with plan 9,
given a bios != 1.20.
- erik
assuming my code isn't totally broken on your machine,
it looks as if you have no mp table at all. so either
your machine has no mp table or we are looking in the
wrong place.
since i'm a little unsure how this could be, my next
step would be to boot linux with mp interrupts to
troll dmesg for
So my question is what is my best option?
Setting up inferno on FreeBSD and run httpd from there? Setting up plan9
in xen (or lguest) and set httpd inside that? Try to port plan9's httpd
to unix, using p9p as an example? Just stick to some unix httpd because
it's not worth it? (I guess it
Have tried Plan9 on Intel D945PLrn mainboard P4 Dualcore and
MP, Network and AHCI doesnt work out of the box.
ok, i try to resolve AHCI first...
the pci ids are 0x8086/0x27c0 for the SATA controller (82801GB) and
i tried to add this to the match function as Tich in sdiahci.c, but this
This machine also fails MP. I get mpintrenable() errors for any devices
including the keyboard and then i end up on the boot prompt unable
to type anything.
mpintrenable: out of choices -1 -1
generally this means that your machine's mp table is broken. you can add
i put a new version of the kenfs code we're running at coraid on sources.
/n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/myfs. we continue to see good performance
and the most serious problem encountered so far is that the default
route was configured incorrectly requiring a creative dynamic route
for sntp.
getflags brings rc scripts in line with the argument parsing rules
from the standard plan 9 c maros ARGBEGIN{}ARGEND.
- erik
I call that a disadvantage, to me it looks like y is an argument to -x
If that's what getflags does, then I hope someone runs rm on it
This is not LINUX! This is
as tempting as the thought is,
c structures != memory layout.
- erik
Yes, however try reading the C struct for FIB. It's confusing. What
is FC? I expected a pure struct definition, like in Appendix A of the
PowerPoint specification.
On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:55 AM, maht wrote:
Never
COFF has had to cope with a certain monster dubbed portability; to adapt
to the peculiarities of the many flavors of UNIX (and at least one
Microsoft OS, with MS-COFF). So good it has been practically put out of
business by ELF or... do Plan 9 compilers output COFF object files?
see
so if you're running without the operating system or your application
is the operating system (embedded systems), virtual memory might
just get in the way. tlb hardware doesn't do its translation for free.
Or if you have moved onto the greener pastures of Limbo... not having
to worry about
how did this get past my erik filter?
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
four out of four as expected.
brucee
100% whinage. 0 justification. 0 information. par for the course. ☺
since you disagree, i assume you claim that limbo's the hammer and all
computing problems are nails. i'd like
you might want to try this one:
; ls -l /n/sourcesdump/2002/1212/plan9/386/ld.com
--rwxrwxr-x M 225 glenda sys 64488 Sep 16 2002 ld.com
- erik
believe it or not plan 9 does exactly the same thing, as was
discussed in august under the subject plan 9 overcommits memory?.
fundamentally, i think the stack problem is an operating system
problem not a language problem. (unless you're talking about
8 or 16-bit embedded things.) the thread
My understanding has always been that the stack is a fundamental element
of the x86 architecture. SP and BP registers, later ESP and EBP, are all
about the stack. All return addresses are stored on the stack. Parameter
passing relies on it. And I know of no other means of implementing
works for me.
I don't know the internal workings of the plan 9 ip stack so I take
the risk of being silly: could be that the bug is not tcp only?
iru
no. the problem is that active tcp timers are overwritten.
all the tcp timer code is contained within ip/tcp.c
- erik
vesa mode works. unichrome II is propritary and you can't get the
programming docs without an nda.
That's changing. Native linuxbios mode support is coming. So the information
will exist outside NDA.
ron
actually programming documentation or just code?
- erik
Maybe all the 9fans moved here? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418737/
In any event, you forgot: what order of infinity is the work vs. your
free time anyway? You might just be slacking. Enquiring minds want to
know!
the work items are not hard, there are just countablly many of them.
since
actually programming documentation or just code?
just code, but, while I realize code alone is often useless, I am
willing to bet the docs in this case are less useful than code. The
code will have all the huge doc gaps filled in.
☺. it seems to be a truism among hardware folks. the
glad i'm not depending on it:
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9873068-7.html?tag=nefd.top
- erik
Once, long ago, I found a copy of the ATAPI spec that did not require
me sending $$$ to T13. Anybody seen that lately or have a link?
ron
i remember the draft t13 standards being free on the t13 website.
- erik
Sorry, I have no ohci hardware so I don't think I can
help. Did the uhci machine recognise your devices
before the recent update to add ohci support?
just got the machine monday.
i don't think i have any older kernels with usb
compiled in, but i'll see what i can find.
i'd like to rule out
Are you killing the old usbd before starting a new one?
yes.
And is this uhci or ohci?
ohci. oddly, my uhci ich9r machine doesn't recognize
either of my extensive collection of two usb devices.
- erik
ohci. oddly, my uhci ich9r machine doesn't recognize
either of my extensive collection of two usb devices.
You may be running the usbd with faulty dump.c. If your
devices show up in /dev/usb0/1/status with just one
line and 0x00 for Class/Subclass/Proto, then you're
almost
from the linux kernel:
bootsplash: silent mode.
- erik
On Wed Feb 13 18:32:19 EST 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In most /bin/sh variants (I'm not sure about original):
:(){:|:};:
Quick denial of service.
iirc, there were not functions in the orginal.
- erik
thanks for the update. i have switched to a slightly
more agreeable key but i have a new way to fail. the key
works the first time. but the second time i connect the same
key, i get
; usbfat:
setupreq: write err: No response
usb/disk: describedevice: error writing usb
Do you mean why doesn't the ctl file accept partition commands?
You can always use fs(3) for that. But usb root is not very
practical anyway, at least with uhci, because of a stubborn
bug in the driver which makes transfers very very slow. Now
there's ohci support I would be interested to
Nemo found a bug in usb/lib/dump.c that may well account for
this. I incorporated his change (and fixed a bug in his code :-).
I'll ask Geoff to push it out today.
Sape
excellent. i'll give it a shot.
- erik
I believe my writing turns out a bit unclear. What I meant to say was
that I actually did a dd -if /dev/zero -f /dev/sdC1/raw before I
figured out that it should have been dd -if /dev/zero -of
/dev/sdC1/data instead. Hence I was wondering if writing those zeroes
to the raw file could be the
Looking at /sys/src/cmd/usb/usbd/usbd.c, I wonder whether
your problem has something to do with these lines?
//unconscionable kludge (testing camera)
if(d-class == 10) setup0(d, RH2D|Rinterface, SET_INTERFACE, 10, 0, 0);
thanks for the suggestion, but the camera was a red herring.
it was
1. I zeroed the target harddisk before installation like this: dd -if
/dev/zero -of /dev/sdC1/data.
2. I also accidentally did this first when I really meant to zero the
disk: dd -if /dev/zero -f /dev/sdC1/raw.
you did the right thing. the raw file is for issuing raw commands to
the drive.
You could reduce your storage bill by using file names to store the data
through information hiding rather than the content ;)
http://www.geocities.com/patchnpuki/other/compression.htm
One of these days ..
my reading of the sla seemed to indicate they count bucket names
against you.
I've always thought variables and such went at the bottom... or
is that just m68k asm?
John
you can put them anywhere. there's no typechecking in assembly
and the linker doesn't care.
- erik
usbd is exiting when i have a camera which is off
attached:
; usb/usbd -v
; echo $status
usbd 1827: usbd: setup0: usb0/1: transaction error
- erik
Well, that isn't so much about rc's advantages. Keep in mind though that
this would force getflags to be present whenever you need a shell script.
For most installations this isn't an issue, but for those running Plan 9
embedded it is. And with space constraints providing some of /rc/bin might
I mentioned in passing some time ago that I was working on a venti
server that uses Amazon S3 as a storage backend. There is now code in
/n/sources/contrib/rcbilson/s3venti . Beware sharp edges. I have
pumped a fair amount of test data through it successfully, but I
wouldn't recommend
It produces the string ' bla$e''o' in rc syntax. The one thing I like
about two quoting styles in the Bourne shell is that I can use
it's not so much the number of quotes (there are three, by the way),
it's the complex rules. for example:
; /bin/bash
$ x=1
$ echo
There's an OS (complete with a Window Manager, IDE, Web Browser, and
even some games) written entirely in assembly: http://www.menuetos.net/
Everyone has 24 hours in a day, but some use it more than others ;)
i can see from their documentation, that i have been using my time quite
a bit
One more thing. Does anyone know if, in raw x86 assembly, RET implies
STI? Thanks.
if it did, it would be impossible to call a function with interrupts off.
- erik
1. Is it possible to do command line edit in rc?
That is, in bash, both emacs and vi like keybindings can be used
(thanks to readline library). But in rc, I have not noticed that yet.
As a result, some basic usuages of a shell, such as recalling the
previously executed commands, have to be
I did think that was the case earlier, so I tried:
TEXT _main+0(SB), 1, $32
(And also with values ranging from $4 to $32 in increments of $4 just
for the heck of it). But it doesn't seem to make any difference in the
suicide, apart from the changed value of pc.
The error is most
actually, there's probably enough space above your current location to
(appear to) work, but a further error
is hinted in the address given by the trap:
8.out 1183: suicide: invalid address 0x7 in sys call pc=0x104e
since 7 is your length value, you've also got an off-by-4 error in
acid: asm(_main)
_main 0x1020 SUBL$0x18,SP
_main+0x3 0x1023 MOVL$0x1,0x0(SP)
_main+0xa 0x102a MOVL$string(SB),0x4(FP)
_main+0x12 0x1032 MOVL$0x7,0x8(FP)
_main+0x1a 0x103a MOVL$0x0,0xc(FP)
_main+0x22 0x1042 MOVL$0x0,0x10(FP)
_main+0x2a
if you love assembly code, the assembler on Plan 9 is not great.
If you love assembly code, you are in need of a CAT scan in my view.
The v6 manual entry for as called assembly code the ultimate dead
language. If only that had been true.
gcc and friends have made the world safe for
By the way, I always thought computer science/engineering experts, a group
I am not a member of, would rather have half a keyboard than two mice ;-)
i believe that's an accurate description of the first mouse. the left hand
mouse had enough buttons to type.
4. to recall commands typed in an rc session without resorting to the
middle mouse button (snarf+paste)?
russ has to useful scripts and one prints the last comand the other
executes it. what they do is grepping /dev/text
5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of
I changed sdata.c to:
return SDretry if starting dmarequest fails,
return SDretry and reseting controller if dma times out,
return SDretry on request is done and error signaled,
and added a counter that resets the controller if a request
was 1000 times retried...
you might want to loop
p9p rio doesn't use the Plan 9 file model and is not based on file
descriptors. it was written at a much earlier age and is a straight
X11 program that emulates the rio look and feel. it used to be called
'9wm'.
in fact, 9wm is so old that it emulates 8½ back when ptys were really
Acme mail now reports multiple messages in the destination folders such
as:
111/ $199
110/ $349
109/ Apple [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue 19 Jun 2007
iPod Gift Wrapping is now available.
upas/nedmail reports that the folder has 0 items in it, Acme mail that
it has 136
maybe a little bit too early... ran venti/wrarena on sdC0
last night and in the morining the system was completly freezed.
(disk led was off, screen was blank)
:-(
seems that my dd tests are too simple or run too shortly...
i'll attach serial console to the machine and try to reproduce
9fans.net/archive
- erik
i choose that blocksize because the I/O erros printed by venti
while i first tried to copy arenas showed that blocksize.
i conclude for now that doing paralel io on both drives results
in I/O errors in short time. reading/writing a single drive, the
system hangs/freezes after many hours
``Anyone who remembers what life was like before the USB standard came
along will appreciate the transformation it has brought about.'' indeed.
Anyone who remembers what life was like before our evil overlords from the
Andromeda galaxy arrived will appreciate the transformation they have
Now this is very interesting! A friend gave me an Adaptec (it really is an
SiL) 2xSATA
PCI controller [1] for testing, and i was able to generate I/O errors just by
reading from
both drives in paralel! Does anybody run multiple SATA drives in IDE-mode
without
problems under Plan9?
block sizes dont seem to matter, tried from 512 bytes to 64K in the
adaptec case. i also get no errors in /dev/kprint. just read() returns
Eio.
i have no knowledge of IDE or SATA interfaces, so i'm a little bit lost
in the code. :-( the chipset specific IDE code in linux seens to set
Assuming I am not wrong with that point, there must be some sort of
unofficial/contributed drivers for OHCI on Plan 9. Instructions on how to
install/configure them will be useful, I suppose.
not that i'm aware of.
- erik
...then i get i/o errors in venti and plan9 paniced. so this was not
such a good idea i guess...
reformated all venti partitions and tried again several times with
different bios options
(without DMA, tried both bios SATA IDE and SATA RAID mode):
- after hours of disk activity, sdD0
one thing of note, linux vfs implements a dcache. this connects the
virtual memory system to the filesystem. (but oddly in linux network
buffers are handled seperately.) there is no client-side caching in
the plan 9 kernel.
there is a notable exception. there is an executable cache.
One more
i've been running a derivative of faces for a couple of years
now that i just put on sources /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/faces.
the middle button selects a face. vwhois faces can't be selected.
when a face is selected, a box is drawn around it and a guideish
bar is printed:
Del |
see bind(2):
Finally, the MCACHE flag, valid for mount only, turns on
caching for files made available by the mount. By default,
file contents are always retrieved from the server. With
caching enabled, the kernel may instead use a local cache to
Some other reasons:
- Some systems (read: Linux) do not have pthreads
incorrect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_POSIX_Thread_Library
- C99 is still new and although it's in POSIX, not many systems have
it (Plan 9 doesn't have complete C99)
c99 is 9 years old!
- erik
it would help to have intel and amd drivers based on published
documentation. i don't have the amd (ati) link handy, but here's
the link matt offered the other day:
http://intellinuxgraphics.org/documentation.html
- erik
hello,
I tried the 5th of November iso (which I guess uses the new 9load) and
here goes the report:
PBS1... Plan 9 from Bell Labs
ELCR: 0C00
Initial probe, to find plan9.ini... dev A0 port 1F0 config 85C0
capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0407
pcirouting 8086/27DF at pin 1 irq 10
dev A0 port
So what are the facts to back up so many posts regarding autotools badness?
Just curious.
part of the issue is that autotool solves a problem that doesn't
exist on plan 9 systems. one doesn't need to test for compilers,
exotic library problems or portability issues.
(small rant:
Hello. I just went up from a 24-bit display to a 32-bit display in
QEMU, and I noticed that rio, acme, and games/mahjongg had different
colors. Is this normal/expected/in the source or images? Thanks.
no.
- erik
An alternative interpretation is that the facts are skewed by the Bell
Labs reality distortion field. The syllogism goes something like this:
All things not made at Bell Labs are bad
GNU is not made at Bell Labs
Therefore, GNU is bad
if this holds, then
plan 9 uses ip, smtp,
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