Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

> Simply, better liquidity no. If there is sufficient liquidity for the market > to function reasonably, without completely abandoning documented need, then I > wouldn't want to abandon documented need. If there is insufficient liquidity > for the market to function reasonably, then I would co

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Kevin Kargel wrote: > I do not agree that there is a "requirement" for a transfer market > to be possible. I strongly disagree that it is in any way part of > the ARIN charter to manipulate rules to benefit a profit motivated > transfer market. Hi Kevin, I don't

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/26/13 12:58 , Kevin Kargel wrote: I do not agree that there is a "requirement" for a transfer market to be possible. I strongly disagree that it is in any way part of the ARIN charter to manipulate rules to benefit a profit motivated transfer market. I could care less about someone maki

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

ailto:wher...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of William Herrin Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 12:12 PM To: Kevin Kargel Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Kevin Kargel wrote: > Isn't the liqui

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:49 PM, David Farmer wrote: > On 6/26/13 11:14 , William Herrin wrote: >>> I think there are even higher principle that we should be considering, >>> such as > >>> - Network operators, public or private, are entitled to unique Internet >>> number resource from the Interne

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Kevin Kargel wrote: > Isn't the liquidity of a transfer market in itself outside of ARIN's > scope? Hi Kevin, That depends. With all this talk about conservation, operational need, documented need, and even the requirement for a transfer market to be possible,

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/26/13 11:14 , William Herrin wrote: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 11:11 PM, David Farmer wrote: On 6/7/13 09:16 , Chris Grundemann wrote: 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need (Conservation/Sustainability)? Yes, however the focus on conservation over other c

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

-Original Message- From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net] On Behalf Of William Herrin Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:14 AM To: David Farmer Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts {SNIP

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 11:11 PM, David Farmer wrote: > On 6/7/13 09:16 , Chris Grundemann wrote: > >> 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need >> (Conservation/Sustainability)? > > > Yes, however the focus on conservation over other considerations exemplified > by cu

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 06/25/2013 20:11, David Farmer wrote: 2) Do you support the principle of hierarchical aggregation (Routability)? Yes, however the need for hierarchical aggregation should be less about who should or shouldn't get allocations and more about ensuring that subsequent allocations are aggregatea

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/7/13 09:16 , Chris Grundemann wrote: 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need (Conservation/Sustainability)? Yes, however the focus on conservation over other considerations exemplified by current IPv4 policy is an artifact of the IPv4 free pool run-out. O

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Sweeting, John wrote: > The AC has a call scheduled for this Thursday, an update will be posted > after that. I will send you an update as well if you like. Hi John, There's no need for a special update. Your previous non-answer bugged me so I took a potshot. Wit

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

Hi Bill, The AC has a call scheduled for this Thursday, an update will be posted after that. I will send you an update as well if you like. Thanks, John On 6/17/13 11:21 AM, "William Herrin" wrote: >On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Sweeting, John > wrote: >> As with all policy proposals ever

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Sweeting, John wrote: > As with all policy proposals everything that is learned on the list will > be taken to the PPM in October where the AC Shepherds will share these > statistics along with other pertinent information and also take input at > the meeting. Hi J

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

Hi Bill, As with all policy proposals everything that is learned on the list will be taken to the PPM in October where the AC Shepherds will share these statistics along with other pertinent information and also take input at the meeting. We also had some input at the NANOG 58 PPC. Thanks for all

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/13/13, Paul Vixie wrote: > William Herrin wrote: >> That having been said, this is 2013 not 1996. > Justified need and free >> market are opposite sides of a partisan divide. Your draft takes a position. > from where i sit, jason's draft takes ARIN's position, both current and prior. Not re

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 1:14 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Chris Grundemann > wrote: >> Providing false information and flooding > > That's twice now you've accused me of lying. Let's put that to the test. > > Here's my data: http://bill.herrin.us/network/principle

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

I believe that the question is too nuanced for a straight yes/no at this time, as my personal opinion. I believe that there's a clear status quo answer, but I don't believe that it's a good time to restate or retrench the status quo without a deeper discussion about the status quo's flaws. That's

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Jun 13, 2013 12:18 AM, "Paul Vixie" wrote: > > > > William Herrin wrote: > > ... > > > > That having been said, this is 2013 not 1996. Justified need and free > > market are opposite sides of a partisan divide. Your draft takes a > > position. > > from where i sit, jason's draft takes ARIN's po

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: > but hijacking a relatively tame proposal which would merely keep the > status quo, because here and now is a convenient place and time to > advance your own cause, is unprofessional. Hi Paul, With all due respect, your reasoning here is unfath

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

William Herrin wrote: > ... > > That having been said, this is 2013 not 1996. Justified need and free > market are opposite sides of a partisan divide. Your draft takes a > position. from where i sit, jason's draft takes ARIN's position, both current and prior. > Something in such major content

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Jason Schiller wrote: > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:28 PM, William Herrin wrote: >> Jason's closed-door partisan draft. > > I appreciate this is a difficult topic. > I tried to keep this draft as simply recording the current state of things, > and not modify current

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:28 PM, William Herrin wrote: > > Jason's closed-door partisan draft. I appreciate this is a difficult topic. Many of us are passionate that ARIN should do the right thing. This is complicated by feeling like IPs are a community resource, and weighing the best interest

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > Providing false information and flooding Chris, That's twice now you've accused me of lying. Let's put that to the test. Here's my data: http://bill.herrin.us/network/principles.html I respectfully request that anyone who believes I h

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:28 PM, William Herrin wrote: > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Chris Grundemann > wrote: >> First of all this is not a vote, and while I appreciate you're >> attempts to help (I assume), they come across as a manipulative >> attempt at controlling the conversation when

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > First of all this is not a vote, and while I appreciate you're > attempts to help (I assume), they come across as a manipulative > attempt at controlling the conversation when the counts are not > accurate and are (repeatedly) preemptive.

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:48 PM, George Herbert wrote: > 1) needs-based > No. Well, maybe. This is not a question conducive to yes/no answers. > Traditional needs assessments and methods are going to need to shift, this > question does not really frame or suggest any of the options for that > ch

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 2:15 PM, William Herrin wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I haven't seen any responses for a couple days, so here's the current count: First of all this is not a vote, and while I appreciate you're attempts to help (I assume), they come across as a manipulative attempt at controlling

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

Hi Chris, I haven't seen any responses for a couple days, so here's the current count: On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? 7 of 20 respondents in favor, 12 opposed, 1 d

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

principle of > "public documentation". "Registration" as an RIR principle is circular and > says the RIR's mission is simply to sustain itself. > > Tony > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:muel...@syr.edu] > > Sent:

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/10/13, Tony Hain wrote: > Chris, [snip] > starting point, it might make more sense to have Arin hire a professional > survey developer to create the questions for an "unbiased about the > outcome" > manner as possible. Professional survey developers are expensive, and we don't need for

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

1) needs-based No. Well, maybe. This is not a question conducive to yes/no answers. Traditional needs assessments and methods are going to need to shift, this question does not really frame or suggest any of the options for that change. 2) routability Yes. 3) Uniqueness Yes, overriding goal 4

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Jun 9, 2013, at 15:26 , Gary Buhrmaster wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Chris Grundemann > wrote: >> Hello all, > > > I am going to differentiate between principals and practices. > Practices should not be in the (resulting) principals document > (practices should be, and in

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/10/13, Jimmy Hess wrote: > On 6/10/13, Tony Hain wrote: > Professional survey developers are expensive, and we don't need for > membership fees to go up for more expensive policy development, > requiring professional survey developers.It's also important to > understand, that any surve

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/7/13 7:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: Hello all, As the shepherd for ARIN-2013-4, I'd like to note that while the initial conversation on this draft policy was fairly constructive, more recent comments have gone a bit off topic. Rather than debating the history of internet governance it wou

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

le of "public documentation". "Registration" as an RIR principle is circular and says the RIR's mission is simply to sustain itself. Tony > -----Original Message- > From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:muel...@syr.edu] > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:25 AM > To

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

in itself. Tony > -Original Message- > From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:muel...@syr.edu] > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:25 AM > To: 'Tony Hain'; 'Chris Grundemann'; arin-ppml@arin.net > Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for Ge

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:18 PM, William Herrin wrote: > For anyone keeping score: > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann > wrote: > > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > > (Conservation/Sustainability)? > > 6 of 16 respondents in favor, 9 opp

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

Tony These are very valuable and insightful comments. I would take issue only with one part of your conclusion: > While the survey is a great > starting point, it might make more sense to have Arin hire a professional > survey developer to create the questions for an "unbiased about the > outcome

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

make more sense to have Arin hire a professional survey developer to create the questions for an "unbiased about the outcome" manner as possible. Tony > -Original Message- > From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net] On > Behalf Of Chris G

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

my android sent this On Jun 10, 2013 12:18 PM, "William Herrin" wrote: > > For anyone keeping score: Anyone keeping score probably doesn't need you to do it for them... ;-) This also is likely a bit premature. I'd like to encourage more folks, who haven't responded yet, to provide their t

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

For anyone keeping score: On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? 6 of 16 respondents in favor, 9 opposed, 1 did not offer an answer that could be interpreted as support or

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 06/07/2013 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: ...SNIP... > > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? Yes, I support the principle. The policy mechanisms that support this principle should be different for ASNs, IPv4 addresses, IPv

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

my android sent this On Jun 9, 2013 9:37 PM, "Milton L Mueller" wrote: > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > Question 1 was structured to produce Yes answers > > [Milton L Mueller] Yep. But it didn't succeed so well, did it? > The question was structured based on the language in the d

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

4) Do you support the goal of balancing these principles with each other under the overarching principle of Stewardship? I believe we are called upon to be Stewards, yes. However, I believe that a well-reasoned set of principles will be mutually supporting; when a supposed principle must be balan

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

> -Original Message- > > Question 1 was structured to produce Yes answers [Milton L Mueller] Yep. But it didn't succeed so well, did it? ___ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

> -Original Message- > I am going to differentiate between principles and practices. [Milton L Mueller] Yay! ___ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). Unsubsc

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

> >> > >> 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on > >> need (Conservation/Sustainability)? > > > > [Milton L Mueller] Chris, as you know, conservation needs to be > detached from needs assessments. One can have efficient utilization and > conservation without needs asses

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > Hello all, > > ... > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? > I support Sustainability. I don't support need-based conservation. "need" is too fuzzy a concept, and too easi

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/9/13, Chris Grundemann wrote: > On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote: >>> 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need >>> (Conservation/Sustainability)? Question 1 was structured to produce Yes answers, regardless if the respondent thinks that

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > Hello all, I am going to differentiate between principals and practices. Practices should not be in the (resulting) principals document (practices should be, and in many cases are, in the NRPM). > 1) Do you support the principle of e

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > > >> -Original Message- >> >> 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need >> (Conservation/Sustainability)? > > [Milton L Mueller] Chris, as you know, conservation needs to be detached from > needs asses

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

> -Original Message- > > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? [Milton L Mueller] Chris, as you know, conservation needs to be detached from needs assessments. One can have efficient utilization and conservation without

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > Hello all, > > As the shepherd for ARIN-2013-4, I'd like to note that while the > initial conversation on this draft policy was fairly constructive, > more recent comments have gone a bit off topic. Rather than debating > the history of in

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/7/13, Chris Grundemann wrote: > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? I say No; opposed to efficient utilization based on need as a principal. I don't say no to Conservation/Sustainability, but you lumped them in there, thu

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/7/2013 4:16 PM, Chris Grundemann wrote: Hello all, Hello. ... 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need (Conservation/Sustainability)? No. Certainly not anywhere near as how it is currently implemented. Efficient utilization based on need makes no sense

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

Hi, On Jun 7, 2013 7:17 AM, "Chris Grundemann" wrote: > > Hello all, > > As the shepherd for ARIN-2013-4, I'd like to note that while the > initial conversation on this draft policy was fairly constructive, > more recent comments have gone a bit off topic. Rather than debating > the history of in

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Jun 7, 2013, at 10:12 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Bill Darte wrote: >> William Herrin via arin.net 10:47 AM (36 minutes ago) >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann >> wrote: >>> 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Jun 7, 2013, at 7:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > Hello all, > > As the shepherd for ARIN-2013-4, I'd like to note that while the > initial conversation on this draft policy was fairly constructive, > more recent comments have gone a bit off topic. Rather than debating > the history of inte

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:15 AM, William Herrin wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Jason Schiller wrote: 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need (Conservation/Sustainability)? >>> >>> T

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:15 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Jason Schiller wrote: >>> 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need >>> (Conservation/Sustainability)? >> >> Yes >> >> There also seems to be an associated concept that i

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

Come on.ARIN Central is all involved voices creating policy..including yours. YOU demonstrate your need and the policy guides whether you get what you ask for or not. No big brother here, no matter how hard you shout or obfuscate. bd On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:15 PM, William Herrin wrote: >

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On 6/7/13 7:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: There are either unstated assumptions or undefined terms here. > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? What is efficiently utilized (leaving each of those undefined)? Is it an arbitrary s

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Jason Schiller wrote: >> 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need >> (Conservation/Sustainability)? > > Yes > > There also seems to be an associated concept that is has some > level of "fairness" That is everyone gets what

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need (Conservation/Sustainability)? YES 2) Do you support the principle of hierarchical aggregation (Routability)? I SUPPORT WHAT THE COMMUNITY FEELS IS THE APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE TO PROMOTE ROUTABILITY 3) Do you support the princi

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Bill Darte wrote: > William Herrin via arin.net 10:47 AM (36 minutes ago) > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann > wrote: > > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > > (Conservation/Sustainability)? > > No. I support

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

William Herrin via arin.net 10:47 AM (36 minutes ago) to Chris, arin-ppml On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservatio

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Grundemann wrote: > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? No. I support the practice but not the principle. Use of the concept of justified need should be pragmatic not dogmatic. Where another

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

On Fri, 7 Jun 2013, Chris Grundemann wrote: [...] > 1) Do you support the principle of efficient utilization based on need > (Conservation/Sustainability)? Yes. > > 2) Do you support the principle of hierarchical aggregation (Routability)? Heirarchical aggregation is more a secondary goal. R

[arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

Hello all, As the shepherd for ARIN-2013-4, I'd like to note that while the initial conversation on this draft policy was fairly constructive, more recent comments have gone a bit off topic. Rather than debating the history of internet governance it would be very helpful for the AC to understand t