magiccarpetride;611122 Wrote:
Let me turn the tables for a moment here, and ask a pointed question:
if, by comparing two audio components side-by-side, you can definitely
hear a difference, do you think that difference can be measured?
By 'measured' I mean detected using some measuring
yes it is another myth that human hearing is more sensitive than
measuring.
measuring is probably 1000 of times more sensetive or more.
The problem is correlation between measurments and experience, how do
that difference sound ? why did it sound like this when I did that ?
The only thing that
adamdea;610809 Wrote:
Phil I have a couple of questions about your tests and ADM, if you have
a moment (and by the way hope you get better soon).
Am I right in assuming that the maximum null (ie no change
whatsoever)=100?
If so I am a bit confused about the control difference being 96.96
Phil Leigh;611211 Wrote:
Hi - in brief, no the max null is not 100. The theoretical max null is
-144dB if using 24-bit recording. In practice we know that 24-bit is
impossible with readily available tech so it's more like -120... in
practice, getting a null under 100 is tricky - you won't
Phil Leigh;611211 Wrote:
Hi - in brief, no the max null is not 100. The theoretical max null is
-144dB if using 24-bit recording. In practice we know that 24-bit is
impossible with readily available tech so it's more like -120... in
practice, getting a null under 100 is tricky - you won't
andynormancx;611129 Wrote:
That depends entirely on what you mean by definitely hear a
difference. As has been discussed many times here before the human
brain is a curious thing.
Logically, if one is hearing a difference but there isn't actually one,
which can very easily happen, then
OK I think this is still relevant to the thread seeing as I started it
all off in the first place...
...after reading various forums it seems that newer designs are going
down the asynchronous USB route for this very important consideration:
'Asynchronous USB Audio is like a 'Clock Locked' CD
stop-spinning;611232 Wrote:
OK I think this is still relevant to the thread seeing as I started it
all off in the first place...
...after reading various forums it seems that newer designs are going
down the asynchronous USB route for this very important consideration:
'Asynchronous USB
magiccarpetride;611141 Wrote:
See what I'm saying? Even if you haven't changed any component in your
system, and are listening to the same track again, something else in
your surroundings has changed (including your own conditions), and that
change influences how you experience the second
That is great information! ItÂ’s just the sort of opinions I was looking
for.
I often read where somebody thinks that vinyl (or digital) is so much
better, but I always wonder if they really know what they are talking
about. Have they ever seriously compared the two by listening to both
over an
adamdea;611226 Wrote:
So does this mean that your figures are effectively in decibels ie null
of 96= biggest difference is at -96db?
I'm hesitant to say yes to this. I don't think you can or should assume
that. Just take it as being some arbitrary number, where a higher number
= less
Firstly apologies if this has been done elsewhere, please point me in
the correct direction if it has.
I'm running 3 SBs (1 SB3, and 2 Receivers), along with a PC/Winamp
combo against the same FLAC library (QNAP TS-119/SqueezeCenter 7.3.3).
I've been messing around with Winamp, in particular
Daverz;611204 Wrote:
That's not surprising to me. I'm not as impressed with Atkinson's
measurement techniques as some other folks are. I imagine there are
measurable aspects of a speaker's subjective performance that escape
his methods.I am not saying that JOhn's measurements are the
m1abrams;611185 Wrote:
Depth of image, and palpability really have little meaning when it comes
to reproducing sound. Soundstage can easily be measured as I already
stated. However the issue with soundstage is it has more to do with
speaker placement than anything else so while I can
adamdea;611231 Wrote:
The problem is that we all feel a bit differently every time we hear the
same track; it is actually quite difficult to separate out the
Heraclitus effect from the impact if any of changes made in the system.
This has nothing to do with the reality or otherwise of one's
Daverz;611206 Wrote:
To take a more active interpretation: I do think that with control over
frequency and phase response, say with a DSP, many differences one
hears could be reproduced. For example, the differences I hear in
midrange presence and how the soundstage is projected when I swap
m1abrams;611165 Wrote:
It is a pretty useful metric if you make, sell, advertise, etc for
mayonnaise. Just because a measurement is meaningless to you does not
make it a pointless measurement.
I was talking about the general public, not about special interest
groups.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride;611298 Wrote:
So if I hear you correctly (and I think I do), if we were to measure the
characteristics of an ultra high end audio system (say, something worth
almost a million bucks), we should be able to store that information
and forward it to some mediocre audio system and
WAD62;611268 Wrote:
Firstly apologies if this has been done elsewhere, please point me in
the correct direction if it has.
I'm running 3 SBs (1 SB3, and 2 Receivers), along with a PC/Winamp
combo against the same FLAC library (QNAP TS-119/SqueezeCenter 7.3.3).
I've been messing around
magiccarpetride;611294 Wrote:
One amp was projecting the performers forward, the other was making them
appear as if positioned several feet behind the speakers.
How would your ideal measuring apparatus detect those differences?
By comparing the electrical output of the two amps. You do
andynormancx;611319 Wrote:
By comparing the electrical output of the two amps. You do realise there
isn't any magic involved don't you ?
Either there is a real difference in the output of the amps and thus
the sound, which would then be measurable (either by listening to the
speakers or
magiccarpetride;611300 Wrote:
I was talking about the general public, not about special interest
groups.
For most metrics to have meaning they are for special interests.
General public does not care about the THD of an amp. Metrics are for
the audience. That was the point of my posts.
WAD62;611268 Wrote:
Firstly apologies if this has been done elsewhere, please point me in
the correct direction if it has.
I'm running 3 SBs (1 SB3, and 2 Receivers), along with a PC/Winamp
combo against the same FLAC library (QNAP TS-119/SqueezeCenter 7.3.3).
I've been messing around
magiccarpetride;611298 Wrote:
So if I hear you correctly (and I think I do),
Always a bad assumption to make.
if we were to measure the characteristics of an ultra high end audio
system (say, something worth almost a million bucks), we should be able
to store that information and
Daverz;611338 Wrote:
Always a bad assumption to make.
That was a Seinfeld quote.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863
View this thread:
I remember hearing a dCS system that sounded really great at a show.
Immediately, I walked up to the loudspeakers to see what they were. I
think that sums up my attitude to high-end digital sources! LOL.
Darren
--
darrenyeats
magiccarpetride;611296 Wrote:
One thing not clear to me is why do people insist that our experiences
have nothing to do with reality? Aren't our experiences also reality?
Or, to put it more bluntly: what else is there other than our
experiences?
I have participated in some blind testing and
darrenyeats;611376 Wrote:
I have participated in some blind testing and in some ways THAT is
something that cannot be explained academically but rather it has to be
experienced to be understood.
When you're listening and you don't know what you're listening
to...well, it's a bit exciting
garym;611399 Wrote:
Oh no! Please don't get MCR started on double blind or ABX testing. ;-)
Thought I'd light the touch paper!
--
darrenyeats
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.
SB3, SB Touch
Unless I missed it, this thread is incomplete without a reference to the
Heisenberg uncertainty principle. If you can measure it, you've changed
it, so you're no longer measuring the original it (and before the
quantum mechanics folks jump on me, yes I know that is a superficial
description). But
garym;611399 Wrote:
Oh no! Please don't get MCR started on double blind or ABX testing. ;-)
Why not?
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863
View this
magiccarpetride;611413 Wrote:
Why not?
note the smiley face. I don't care if you talk about it obviously,
you've made your position on this known in several other
threads.but not being repetitive is certainly not a requirement on
these forums!
--
garym
garym;611415 Wrote:
note the smiley face. I don't care if you talk about it obviously,
you've made your position on this known in several other
threads.but not being repetitive is certainly not a requirement on
these forums!
Repetitio ist mater studiorum.
--
magiccarpetride
m1abrams;611329 Wrote:
For most metrics to have meaning they are for special interests.
General public does not care about the THD of an amp. Metrics are for
the audience. That was the point of my posts. Sure the news media will
report on inane stats that have little meaning for most
magiccarpetride;611424 Wrote:
Repetitio ist mater studiorum.
No it's not - it requires the intellect of your average canine ;)
--
Stratmangler
There is no element of personal attack in my response.
Stratmangler's
magiccarpetride;611427 Wrote:
This is a very good reply. Spot on, and I couldn't agree with you more.
I was angling toward the view that people who are into digital
streaming are way more interested in whether something actually works,
than HOW does it work. Like, Soundcheck's mods. If
garym;611403 Wrote:
Unless I missed it, this thread is incomplete without a reference to the
Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
The HUP simply does not apply to this kind of macroscopic, essentially
classical system.
--
Daverz
Hmmm, I tried ripping an Lp to a 24/96 file and my results weren't very
good. The digital files seem to lose some presence and even some bass.
Maybe my M-Audio Audiophile USB isn't cutting it anymore.
--
Daverz
Daverz's
garym;611254 Wrote:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110
Thanks - this thread is still active - looks like there are still some
teething problems so I will keep following it.
--
stop-spinning
darrenyeats;611376 Wrote:
I have participated in some blind testing and in some ways THAT is
something that cannot be explained academically but rather it has to be
experienced to be understood.
When you're listening and you don't know what you're listening
to...well, it's a bit exciting
This has been an interesting discussion,
But can you be certain of what it is you are hearing, or experiencing?
If you are interested I suggest you make some time to watch and listen
to the Audio Myths Workshop Video available on youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
Thew
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