or an optical input available, which is primarily why we have the
connector there...
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sources when using the Benchmark...
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is smoking.
Hard words in such a peasefull time, sorry. Enjoy your holidays :)
I think (hope) they still care about it - after all, the Logitech site
now shows a new Transporter SE item...
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/asynchronous-upsampling-110-khz)
However, I do not know how that argument may (if at all) relate to the
Transporter...
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in performing mods
to a product and the warranty is gone of course.
It would seem very strange that Logitech would spend to put any
superfluous parts in, that literally serve no function whatsoever, and
further actually reduce performance(?)
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Hi Dave,
I -very- strongly recommend going the separate DAC route. Good luck!
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and they all sounded really bad in comparison to the others. The
Endlers though, are consistently fantastic and more flexible in
application as well - they receive my own strong recommendation.
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reading this thread might relate to these observations and the
associated potential issues with the actual statistical validity of any
conclusions drawn.
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for
their legitimacy, and ideally will also proceed from a _simple_ random
sample (not just a random sample). Any deviation from this requirement
will always, at the theoretical level, undermine and invalidate the
results of any statistical significance test.
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if that one is John!) :)
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test (currently your test appears to
be only one-sided), since this would not ignore either preference
direction.
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pski;567935 Wrote:
Bwa?...
Please - what does Bwa mean?
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to answer these questions of course.
If you do in the future choose to do so, perhaps even providing just a
single example for each of your above-referenced statements, would be
nice - but again, this is not necessary. :)
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performance for uniform performance?
This would be helpful info - thanks!
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goopie;562929 Wrote:
Does the Touch sound better than the Classic from the digital output?
Only with some DACs, which I personally consider a weakness in those
DACs.
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on this issue), if/when you have such
feedback to share...
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, as these sound fantastic and
would also directly support your 96/24 material.
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Themis;562310 Wrote:
Thanks Phil, very kind of you. :)
I agree - thanks in advance Phil! :)
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project was in fact being discussed at
Logitech - and not just in a purely hypothetical way, but rather in a
what could we do to make this happen style way. So, I hope it
follows that we do have some hope here! I would certainly be looking
with great interest at such a product. :)
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.
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on Transporters
seems to remain healthy on eBay/Audiogon/etc.
I have no illusions of convincing everybody - I just wanted to share my
reasons, that's all. :)
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Based on what you've just said here Ron - using only analog outs and
appreciating a more spacious volume - I recommend you get a
Transporter. I think it would produce a noticeable difference on the
equipment you mention, and I also think you would enjoy this
difference. :)
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a big
difference, but wow! I don't know exactly why the older Transporter
components under the hood can produce such a difference, but it's
definitely there... but so is the price difference! :)
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Thank you again George - very much - for continuing to conduct and post
these interesting tests. :)
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see the difference. ;)
Reclocking I believe was introduced for this reason, but also in order
to allow D/A chips/filters to perform more optimally as I recall...
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. :)
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especially agree with the part about amps not having such ridiculous
amounts of gain.
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That paper is interesting, but nearly 20 years old. I wonder how the
various analyses it presents, would now play out using modern digital
receivers and DAC design/circuitry...
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/audio-formats-technology/issues-with-0dbfs-levels-on-digital-audio-playback-systems)
- I thought it was interesting...
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in perceived pracitcal
sound-quality. Well said! :)
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bhaagensen;547680 Wrote:
NewBuyer: thanks for the comments and in particular pointing out one
source of the 'long-cable'-argument. Another source that I see quoted
from time to time, is this:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm
Along with your comment I also note
Thank you very much for conducting and posting these tests.
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perform acceptably well.
If it were me, I'd keep using your Transporter as a transport to your
Naim DAC...
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on people's power
supplies. In
reality the feature does not provide any protection from common power
surges.
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on the quality of the Touch digital output, I would really
appreciate that.
TIA
'Here's a thread with posts by John Swenson'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=485477) containing some
of the details you are interested in...
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Robin Bowes;544635 Wrote:
...Personally, I think this sucks, and would never have happened (so
soon) if Sean Dean were still in charge.
R.
I agree - this shouldn't be happening so soon. Very disappointing.
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be avoided - but perhaps this doesn't apply to
S/PDIF coax connections?
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, by just using
optical output from an SB3 instead of the coax output? Many thanks in
advance!
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with
Transporters are occurring through discount sellers, that could be
worth identifying...
Hope you get a fix - please let us know! :)
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following these several 'Transporters with AC Power Problems'
incidents with much interest lately - did you buy your unit from
Logitech directly?
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, the never in your post title can be
dropped?
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normal use of any of
its digital interfaces.
Keep in mind that I am most admittedly NOT an expert - so if there is
somehow more to the story, I'd like to hear it as much as anybody else!
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configuration for the transformers. It is a rough estimate based on the
voltage seen on the secondary side.
Sean! Great to see you posting again. :)
In your opinion, is this particular Transporter issue, one that is even
possible to fix (at all, i.e. even in principle)?
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check/confirm, if
this is the correct triggering pattern?
I wonder if a bug has ever been filed on this, and if Logitech is still
actively supporting the Transporter user base...
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cliveb;538777 Wrote:
...And when you use analogue attenuation you are sliding the music out
of that range.
Isn't cliveb right about this - aren't there similar
SNR/dynamic-range/distortion etc issues regarding the effect of analog
attenuation as well?
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of the DAC lowers the signal but the noise
from the DAC output stage, preamp etc is untouched so the SNR
deteriorates.
I agree totally - however don't most (all?) active analog preamps,
contribute their own character and some noise/distortion to the
output signal as well?
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), then mswlogo's point must be most relevant to
those who only use passive attenuation?
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michael123,
Forgive me please as I'm just trying to learn here: If you cliveb are
not in agreement, what part of cliveb's argument please do you feel is
in error?
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I'm wondering: Does this problem seem to occur only for users with
220-volt mains, or is it also happening for those with 110-volt mains?
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Is it correct here to assume, that these units were *not* purchased new
direct from Logitech? Just curious, as I might personally try another
Transporter again in the future (with hope that all the bugs are likely
worked out by now)...
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Steve, that would be very cool if you can accomplish this. Good luck
and please let us know how it turns out!
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pski;533553 Wrote:
bwa?
Hey pski - what are you asking here?
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pski;533542 Wrote:
...I'd just like to know if there is a best way to do rca to balanced. I
suspect there is...
Personally I recommend using a transformer for this - for example see
'this link' (http://www.jensentransformers.com/faqs.html#faq5) for a
really nice solution...
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problems
even during wired operation, if the executing code assumes a (removed)
wifi card is present?...
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tingtong5;530347 Wrote:
Simply remove the wireless mini pci card from the transporter, thats
what I did ;-)
I'm wondering - was this very difficult to do? Does it involve any
solder removal, etc?
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- you still probably won't need much of its power, but the A23 has XLR
inputs with level controls on the back of the amp to let you get the
right amount of attenuation. It also has an auto-on (signal sense)
feature that would work great with the Transporter...
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Phil Leigh;515454 Wrote:
I'll look into it at the weekend...
SB3 not faulty. Will retest with Touch and SB3.
Hey Phil, just wondering/nagging: Any progress? :)
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'Parasound Zamp v.3' (http://parasound.com/ParasoundZ/zampv3.php) is
excellent in this application.
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on getting more music. The quality of your speakers
and of the recordings (and music rip), and even your specific speaker
positioning etc, make much more worthwhile differences in my opinion.
:)
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the interconnect shield between your SB3 and computer/soundcard etc?
Just curious...
It would also be interesting to see if your results change, if you
might happen to have a line-level input transformer (EBTech unit, etc)
to place between SB3 and soundcard...
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ar-t;510459 Wrote:
I can show the difference in noise sidebands on the SPDIF output...
It might be difficult to answer this with certainty - but Pat, do you
suspect these particular noise sidebands can/do make a (measurable)
audible difference with at least some DACs?
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I think I'm hearing here, that the beta-Touch is thought to perform
great but the Transporter -still- has a bit of an advantage, both in
analog and digital output, over the beta-Touch... is that correct?
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loop through the ethernet cable? Please explain.
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DCtoDaylight;502701 Wrote:
I think the big problem is that the term jitter has been miss-used so
much, that it has lost much credibility. I've seen -speaker cables-
marketed as being low jitter!
Well we should all probably be using those instead then, for S/PDIF...
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ismarketing;503006 Wrote:
Just got this last night. Connected with a Shunyata Research
Diamondback AC cable, my SB3 sounds more open, with better placement of
things in the soundstage, and far tighter bass...
How is this even possible?
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Which digital device is receiving optical, and which is receiving
coaxial?
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ezkcdude;78141 Wrote:
Either way the signal is going to go through the receiver, so isn't this
point kind of moot?
Not necessarily, since digital and analog signals are each vulnerable
to these effects in different ways...
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I would consider the Parasound balanced amps, and Bryston amps. How
loud do you listen?
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garym;494377 Wrote:
Good luck with narrowing down the issue. And if you do track this down,
I'd be very interested in what you find.
I too would be very interested in whatever you find is producing
differences - good luck Marco, and please keep us posted...
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Could there possibly be a ground loop between your SB3 and your computer
via these unbalanced analog connections? Perhaps the analog outputs of
the SB3 and Touch have different potentials for ground loops(?)
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this setting would persist in the software (not sure why), and
it's worked great ever since! :)
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ar-t;490868 Wrote:
...What is too long? And why?...
Hi Pat,
Just checking my memory here please - did you previously mention
somewhere, that about sixteen feet of good coaxial cable with BNC
terminations, was your own recommendation for S/PDIF delivery?
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actual hardware difference that
must definitely account for it?
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Hi MortyEU,
With a good DAC like yours, I think you would probably also be just as
happy, with the S/PDIF output from a Squeezebox Classic as well...
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can even be remotely
possible...)
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reason, why some have bad
luck with passive preamps - they attenuate the signal too significantly
with the passive preamp, in order to then feed it into an overpowered
amp for their needs...
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because
it doesn't fit a particular view of the universe...
Unfortunately, many audiophiles can be described, as exactly what
you've just said they're not! :)
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(ground) wire also ties the chassis ground together between separate
equipment. This is important because it prevents ground voltage from
otherwise riding on the signal wires, and enables both pos and neg
signal to share a common (balanced) impedance... is that not correct?
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, and another
2nd DAC via S/PDIF link)?
If so, I wonder if this could possibly introduce a sync discrepancy
(which further may, or may not, be audible)...
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, of properly breaking-in the cable connections on your equipment...
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Interesting discussion. What do members here think please, regarding
stereo (not home-theater) use, and using a separate active crossover
unit? I.e. actively crossing over highs to monitors, and lows to sub(s)
through a separate device placed between source and amp/subs...(?)
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earwaxer;451082 Wrote:
...If the rest of your system tends to be a little loosey goosey then
the v-dac could firm things up a bit. The transporter is tight and deep!
I think I'm getting a woody!
Good God man! Audiophiles are quite a wacky bunch... :)
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ashmore;449632 Wrote:
...My wife refuses to discuss it with me. Any takers?
Simon
Summarily giving her away seems a little harsh. I'd recommend allowing
her to have another chance - she probably just didn't realize how
serious you are about your stereo. :)
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John_Dumke;449376 Wrote:
Any suggestions on 2 channel amps with good power?
I'd stick with either Musical Fidelity or Bryston.
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View
(glass) medium...
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contained in them. I wish that I had discovered these little NHT
devices a long time ago, I find them to be *the* ideal match for the SB
and Transporter.
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Welcome to the unforgiving pinball machine of system-sound improvement.
:)
Out of all your suggestions, I recommend you focus on the preamp idea.
If your budget allows it, consider a Bryston preamp with built-in DAC.
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/Powerline devices? I
use these to great effect connecting server to router to switches to TP
etc.
Bob
I too agree with Bob on all of the above.
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option for
these devices, and I don't find it unflattering whatsoever to have
this option.
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agentsmith;444701 Wrote:
...trust me, SqueezeCenter is the best platform out there for computer
based audio...
Completely agree with you there.
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this analog out and the amp, with excellent results
as well.
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they are listening to! :)
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usually do)...
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In my opinion:
If you do get a Transporter, than like occam says, you would be best
served by just using its built-in DAC.
If you are going to use an external DAC regardless, then like Rodney
says, you should just use your un-modded SB to supply the digital
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at its lower watt-output levels. Could that
perhaps be the reasoning behind advice like Elias Gwinn's (quoted in my
last post below)?
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results when using
75-95% of the amps total power.-
So for generally low-level listeners having speakers/systems where 20w
would nearly always cover the transient peaks - perhaps 20w would
sometimes be preferable to 200w?
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These are all the reasons why I feel the SqueezeBox Classic and
Transporter (analog outs) are the ideal right now. Interface jitter
issues are -completely- eliminated, the server software is outstanding,
and these products simply sound fantastic.
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that is -at least- ten times greater than the output
impedance of the passive preamp (at all level settings), and use the
absolute shortest possible interconnect cables between the passive and
the power amp. Works and sounds outstanding with the Squeezebox
Classic. :)
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