haraldo;282071 Wrote:
I've read in an ad for a very well known cable manufacturer that they
test their cables to withstand something like 1200 degrees Fahrenheit,
why would that be useful to domestic usage? I think this argument tops
the BS list.
You mean your interconnects aren't
probedb;283386 Wrote:
You mean your interconnects aren't running through a furnace all the
time!? What's wrong with you, you know they sound better at 1200oF ;)
Touch wood!!
You don't have to buy new cables if your house burns to the ground
===:-O
You know which cables? Nordost
wow i'm tired of this argument. always the same. the cable guys say
forget about measurements listen with your ears. then it's pointed out
that it's been proven many times that lamp cord sounds the same as huge
bux cables if they are of sufficient guage using ABX testing (which is
of course
I would rather not have a discussion, some people claim there is a
difference, thats good, I respect that, and yes, I admit I do have a
rather well respected digital cable, the late edition of Illuminati
D-60, but anyway.
I will tell my own story.
I started out with electrostatic hybrids in
Anne;282632 Wrote:
Dont worry, be happy, and if you owe expensive cables I am sure you
enjoy them just as much as I enjoy mine.
I really like That Don't worry and just enjoy the music :-))
--
haraldo
Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell
KAV400xi -
seanadams;275014 Wrote:
While I agree that audiophile cables are the most shameless kind of
snake oil in this industry, and I would actually expect a coat hanger
to make an acceptable speaker cable (low frequency, low-Z), I certainly
would not say that all cables are BS.
The late John
Never heard an argument in favor of expensive cables that involved
physics.
--
pski
pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574
View this thread:
Pale Blue Ego;274919 Wrote:
Coat hanger? Try these:
www.anticables.com
never mind the hype and resentment around cable questions, I did
replace all my cabling and interconnects, gradually, with paul speltz
anticables, and yes, they are better than the name-brand stuff they
displaced: and
Jitterbug;277655 Wrote:
While this is true literally, to say that there was no implication that
both skills were in some way deficient is disengenuous.
Moreover, it was a missed opportunity. I found your argument in this
thread reasoned and clearly unsettling for those with different
opaqueice;276958 Wrote:
It's not a question of...sounding better while playing normal music.
My SB3 has a buzz coming from its left channel, which...is audible when
it's idle or when you're close to the left tweeters.
Listener;277244 Wrote:
You missed the point. You made something up,
opaqueice;277367 Wrote:
Evidently your understanding of English is about equal to your ability
to write it.
I'll let the alert reader draw their own conclusions.
So now you are resorting to insults, you are unbelievable, and who
asked everyone to be civic? Keep the insults inside your
GuyDebord;277373 Wrote:
So now you are resorting to insults, you are unbelievable,
I didn't say anything about what his abilities are, just that his
writing and comprehension skills seem to be about equal. 0=0, but also
100=100.
Since you think that's an insult, you're the one insulting
Look, there is really no need for us to engage in pointless arguments.
The point of this thread is do you believe that esotic speaker cables
make a difference? Each of us has an opinion, and we might, by future
experiences become convinced that it is right or wrong. That's how we
LEARN,
Why measure or do blind testing? You are listening to the music with
flawed equipment , your ears and brain , so why not trust them? They
are the determinants of whether you are enjoying it or not. Doing blind
testing is as artificial as falsely hearing differences. Its pretty
pointless to
Rodney_Gold;277496 Wrote:
Why measure or do blind testing? You are listening to the music with
flawed equipment , your ears and brain , so why not trust them? They
are the determinants of whether you are enjoying it or not. Doing blind
testing is as artificial as falsely hearing differences.
GuyDebord, you are a fine one to accuse anyone else of resorting to
insults. You have done it several times i this thread.
It all sound the same right ? even if there issent even a singel
component that is the same , and a completly different and much
higer spec dac and completly different
I think we should be thankful that SD is an English-speaking company,
thus having forums (fora, sorry) in English. How many of us could post
in Dutch, Danish, German etc ?
After a while browsing around these fora you get to know the regular
poster's points of view. If you don't share them, and
Rodney_Gold;277496 Wrote:
Why measure or do blind testing? You are listening to the music with
flawed equipment , your ears and brain , so why not trust them? They
are the determinants of whether you are enjoying it or not. Doing blind
testing is as artificial as falsely hearing
opaqueice;277405 Wrote:
I didn't say anything about what his abilities are, just that his
writing and comprehension skills seem to be about equal. 0=0, but also
100=100.
While this is true literally, to say that there was no implication that
both skills were in some way deficient is
Can we simmer down please.
I think what it comes down to is this. If you don't agree with DBT you
will never be impressed with any of the current scientific findings on
audibility. This is because they are all based on DBT.
So I believe this argument is *a proxy for the DBT argument*. I'm not
ope in the klimax ds thread you wrote this to me
Quote:
Sounds like you've pretty much talked yourself into spending $20,000 on
a squeezebox in a nice case.
Have fun with that!
Its pretty obvious that it wassent a joke thats why i cant understand
what you are doing in thise kinds of
GuyDebord;276856 Wrote:
In Urban Design. So no credentials either.
I didn't say I don't have credentials.
I said I didn't need them as a prop for what I'm saying, which stands
quite solidly on its own. Otherwise I'd simply be resorting to
argument from authority, such as...
Now on the
I thourgt so.
--
harmonic
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44124
___
harmonic;276931 Wrote:
It all sound the same right ?
Cables all sound the same (given the mild caveats discussed above).
But a cable is just a piece of metal wire surrounded by an insulator.
Contrary to all that audio voodoo they are very simple to understand,
at least at the level
opaqueice;276958 Wrote:
Cables all sound the same (given the mild caveats discussed above). But
a cable is just a piece of metal wire surrounded by an insulator.
Contrary to all that audio voodoo they are very simple to understand,
at least at the level important for audio.
DACs are
opaqueice;276958 Wrote:
Cables all sound the same (given the mild caveats discussed above). But
a cable is just a piece of metal wire surrounded by an insulator.
Contrary to all that audio voodoo they are very simple to understand,
at least at the level important for audio.
DACs are
I've followed this thread with amusement at first. The coathanger
comparison was absurd and just funny. No need to take it as an attack
on anyone's world view. I'm not amused at the continuing personal
attacks on O.
GuyDebord, you continue to make personal attacks. You seem unable to
tolerate
Listener;277008 Wrote:
I've followed this thread with amusement at first. The coathanger
comparison was absurd and just funny. No need to take it as an attack
on anyone's world view. I'm not amused at the continuing personal
attacks on O.
GuyDebord, you continue to make personal
harmonic;277082 Wrote:
Well when a person in the hifi comunity comes out and tells his
personal oppinions like the where facts then he are bound to get
a strong reactions.
Espicialy proclaming that all sources regardles of design sound
the same.
You missed the point. You
Does it really make a difference what pov you hold , those that believe
have fun in their beliefs and they percieve value in their fancy capble
choices (I too use kimber D60 and orchid AES/EBU and am quite happy with
the pric I paid and the thought that im using the best so not missing
anything)
opaqueice;276261 Wrote:
I already did. I'm not going to repeat myself if you can't be bothered
to read my posts.
There are always an infinite number of conditional clauses to every
statement. Adult human beings know how to communicate anyway (except
sometimes when they don't want to
tomjtx;276282 Wrote:
that is an interesting link. Steve Eddy is an excellent debater and his
posts on AC and other forums are always interesting.
He is an objectivist cable skeptic that manufactures cables, what's not
to love?
I totally agree - I think he has exactly the right attitude,
Well to some this hoppy is about building the hifi equlant to a
formular one car so the can listen to ther favorit music as
uncompromized as possible.
I beleive that therer are alot of crap hifi gear out there that are
horrorbly overpriced that dont give me eny more amazement or joy
over a
Timothy Stockman wrote:
Which is why one should use only the finest, gold-plated coathangers.
:)
But, only if they keep their original form/shape. They are no longer
coathangers if you take a coathanger and straighten it out. That changes
everything (size impact capacitance, impedence, etc.
As far as arguing with opaqueice. It's like aruging with a pig, you get
dirty and the pig just enjoys it.
--
ErikM
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ErikM wrote:
As far as arguing with opaqueice. It's like aruging with a pig, you get
dirty and the pig just enjoys it.
I've reached that conclusion several times, then I think I'll just have
another go. Pointless. He has one argument, and trots it out all the
time, regardless of the topic in
ErikM;276427 Wrote:
As far as arguing with opaqueice. It's like aruging with a pig, you get
dirty and the pig just enjoys it.
If you can't be civil, be silent.
--
opaqueice
opaqueice's Profile:
opaqueice;276522 Wrote:
If you can't be civil, be silent.
I'll second that. O hasn't done anything to merit that kind of
rudeness.
--
tomjtx
tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449
View
opaqueice;276522 Wrote:
If you can't be civil, be silent.
Pot/kettle.
tomjtx wrote:
I'll second that. O hasn't done anything to merit that kind of
rudeness.
I thought it was quite an amusing analogy.
R.
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audiophiles mailing list
opaqueice;276522 Wrote:
If you can't be civil, be silent.
In a place where something is or could be located; a site; you should
locate some self-security and CIVIL manners, for a civil society where
acceptance when you are wrong says good things about you and the
humbleness to accept other
Robin Bowes;276536 Wrote:
Pot/kettle.
Oh, really?
Would you please point where in this thread I've called anyone a pig
and/or said anything else equivalently rude?
When your best arguments are childish insults, you've long since lost
the debate. I guess I was right when I said the truth
In any case, I believe the expression is like _wrestling_ with a pig.
:)
--
seanadams
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View this thread:
seanadams;276551 Wrote:
In any case, I believe the expression is like _wrestling_ with a pig.
:)
Maybe he prefers arguing with them. That way he might actually have a
shot at winning.
--
opaqueice
opaqueice's
Actually pigs are more intelligent than apes and dolphins according to
some studies. Although I have reason to believe opaqueice could be even
more intelligent than that.
Robin Bowes;275854 Wrote:
Yes, there are some v. expensive cables out there that will not
perform any better than good
darrenyeats;276581 Wrote:
Actually pigs are more intelligent than apes and dolphins according to
some studies. Although I have reason to believe opaqueice could be even
more intelligent than that.
According to some studies some cables sound better than others.
According to some studies
GuyDebord;276548 Wrote:
In a place where something is or could be located; a site; you should
locate some self-security and CIVIL manners, for a civil society where
acceptance when you are wrong says good things about you and the
humbleness to accept other points of view and debate them
opaqueice said:
I guess I was right when I said the truth hurts.
And which truth would this be?
You haven't addressed what I've said at all.
Just the same old rant.
yawn
R.
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audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com
Robin Bowes;276624 Wrote:
And which truth would this be?
That expensive cables are a waste of money and a ripoff, at least if
good audio is your goal.
You haven't addressed what I've said at all.
About the difference between what I said and what you said? I'm not
sure how to make it any
opaqueice;276630 Wrote:
That expensive cables are a waste of money and a ripoff, at least if
good audio is your goal.
About the difference between what I said and what you said? I'm not
sure how to make it any clearer - try re-reading your post where you
quoted the two of us.
GuyDebord;276640 Wrote:
The following links are just a sample of your inconsistencies and also
show how more humble and receptive you were a few months back///
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34163page=3
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34318
??
In the
GuyDebord;276640 Wrote:
This is how can someone become hypocritical in a few months, or has it
always been this way? Please check your previous posts. Please tell us
how is it that you even contradict yourself? is it for the sake of
pretended coolness? or for more mud?
The following
tomjtx;276613 Wrote:
No, it is definitely not the forum talking.
I think Opaquiece has been civil.
Me too. I think Opaqueice speaks for many, and I'm uncomfortable that
some choose to resort to insults in the name of the forum.
--
chill
chill;276655 Wrote:
Me too. I think Opaqueice speaks for many, and I'm uncomfortable that
some choose to resort to insults in the name of the forum.
me too, and thats exactly the point, with fundamental and absolutist
unproven arguments and unfounded facts you cannot have a dialogue, less
a
GuyDebord;27 Wrote:
me too, and thats exactly the point, with fundamental and absolutist
unproven arguments and unfounded facts you cannot have a dialogue, less
a debate, and as you can see, other people consider this an insult.
forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in
GuyDebord;27 Wrote:
me too, and thats exactly the point, with fundamental and absolutist
unproven arguments and unfounded facts you cannot have a dialogue, less
a debate, and as you can see, other people consider this an insult.
*Sigh*.
You keep launching attacks and claiming these
tomjtx;276668 Wrote:
Guy, I am sorry, but this post doesn't make sense in relation to O. He
is not fundamentalist, has well reasoned arguments and relies on
established scientific data.
Sorry, couldnt keep the promise...
What data?
I hold a professorship in the Netherland's top technical
opaqueice wrote:
Robin Bowes;276624 Wrote:
And which truth would this be?
That expensive cables are a waste of money and a ripoff, at least if
good audio is your goal.
I agree with that. I have said as much, several times in this thread.
I just don't think you can say cables don't matter,
Your last post had at least a little bit of content. Congratulations.
GuyDebord;276702 Wrote:
What data?
Electromagnetic and electronic, plus acoustic, psychacoustic, and a
little of the biology of human hearing.
We know very well both how to predict and how to measure a speaker
cable's
Robin Bowes;276726 Wrote:
I agree with that. I have said as much, several times in this thread.
Fine - let's leave it there, then.
--
opaqueice
opaqueice's Profile:
opaqueice wrote:
Robin Bowes;275514 Wrote:
If, if, if ...
There is no if (except maybe in your head). You can buy cables for
a few dollars which will perform as well or better as any audiophile
cable, no matter how expensive.
As usual, you're missing the point, perhaps deliberately
opaqueice;275813 Wrote:
There is no if. You can buy cables for a few dollars which will
perform as well or better than any audiophile cable, no matter how
expensive.
Sometimes the truth hurts. It's not my fault the debate has gotten
politicized - it's the fault of those selling
Actually, I found with HDMI cables that it is actually better to buy
cheap mass market HDMI cables that is thinner then buying thick and
expensive ones. I actually had lots of trouble with thicker cables as
they tend to get yanked off the poorly designed HDMI sockets,
potentially even damaging
agentsmith;275886 Wrote:
Actually, I found with HDMI cables that it is actually better to buy
cheap mass market HDMI cables that is thinner then buying thick and
expensive ones. I actually had lots of trouble with thicker cables as
they tend to get yanked off the poorly designed HDMI
Phil Leigh;275896 Wrote:
let's mangle a toslink with some tools and even cut it in half and
hold it together by hand
http://www.seanadams.com/jitter_fiber_test/
--
seanadams
seanadams's Profile:
Sean,
Measurements bla bla but did you *listen* at each stage? There might
have been a difference in danceability, texture or chocolateyness that
was overlooked by the scope. ;)
Darren
--
darrenyeats
SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1
Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system
darrenyeats;275969 Wrote:
Sean,
Measurements bla bla but did you *listen* at each stage? There might
have been a difference in danceability, texture or chocolateyness that
was overlooked by the scope.
Darren
Oh Darren, you are so missing the point :o)
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the
m1abrams;276216 Wrote:
Phil, was he joking with that statement? I really hope so.
Sure is hard to tell around here, isn't it?
--
seanadams
seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3
View
Phil Leigh;276058 Wrote:
Oh Darren, you are so missing the point :o)
Phil, was he joking with that statement? I really hope so.
--
m1abrams
m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850
View
seanadams;276221 Wrote:
Sure is hard to tell around here, isn't it?
Sean you so crack me up. But I did have to re-check just to make sure
it was the Audiophile Section to be sure. That is a dead give-away and
makes it easier to tell (most of the time).
By the way, I am thankful that you still
zanash;275827 Wrote:
maybe you could enlighten us to which cable you refer to, we may then
be able to see where your coming from.
I already did. I'm not going to repeat myself if you can't be bothered
to read my posts.
Robin Bowes;275854 Wrote:
Can you claim that *all* cables sound
darrenyeats;275969 Wrote:
Sean,
Measurements bla bla but did you *listen* at each stage? There might
have been a difference in danceability, texture or chocolateyness that
was overlooked by the scope.
Darren
Very fine. I have visions of a dancing scope.
Bill
--
Listener
opaqueice;276261 Wrote:
I already did. I'm not going to repeat myself if you can't be bothered
to read my posts.
There are always an infinite number of conditional clauses to every
statement. Adult human beings know how to communicate anyway (except
sometimes when they don't want to
opaqueice wrote:
Robin Bowes;275248 Wrote:
The point is that not all cables/amps *do* meet those basic performance
requirements, so the conditional clause in your statement is highly
significant. It is therefore meaningless, and verging on ridiculous to
make such statements making out
Does a cup of tea change if served in a glass or a bone china cup , most
connoisseurs will agree , the tea tastes better in the china cup. Audio
cables and other devices might be snakeoil or might not , however if
folk believe that an expensive cable sounds better , it actually does
to themm , as
Rodney, that is an interesting point.
Since I saw the light about the placebo effect and blind listening
I've really enjoyed what I've got a lot more. If the mind can play
tricks, then having correct information about real audible differences
can play 'fact-based tricks' too.
The knowledge that
I'd highly recommend a book I'm reading right now. It is Musicophelia
by Dr. Oliver Sacks. It is a fascinating look at the way the brain
hears and processes music. Though little to none of the book is
directly concerned with audiophile issues, much of what is discussed
can be applied to the
I too think Rodney may have a point. I resently read, that a study had
been conducted where a brain scan was made during wine tasting. When
the subjects were told, that the wine was expensive, the center in the
brain related enjoyment (pardon my limited vocabulary) showed more
activity, than when
marlowe;275608 Wrote:
So at a show they served the same beer in differently labelled bottles
and asked the tasters which they preferred. The label did make a
difference)
Let me guess one bottle had a picture of rolling fields and the other
had barely dressed sexy woman on it. I can tell you
Timothy Stockman wrote:
That's the whole point of this thread. If you listened to a
system and did not otherwise know whether the speakers were connected
with audiophile cable or coathangers, would your ears alone reliably
tell you?
And related to this is the widely reported study that
Robin Bowes;275514 Wrote:
If, if, if ...
There is no if (except maybe in your head). You can buy cables for a
few dollars which will perform as well or better as any audiophile
cable, no matter how expensive.
No, the real problem is that you consistently post highly polarised
opinion as
opaqueice;275813 Wrote:
There is no if. You can buy cables for a few dollars which will
perform as well or better than any audiophile cable, no matter how
expensive.
Sometimes the truth hurts. It's not my fault the debate has gotten
politicized - it's the fault of those selling
definitely the pot calling the kettle black !
hope you can see the lack of validity of your comments.
maybe you could enlighten us to which cable you refer to, we may then
be able to see where your coming from.
I have no objection to people with a contrary view ...life would be
very dull if
zanash;274976 Wrote:
firstly don't believe all you read on the interweb
secondly do you trust your own ears ?
if you don't then your in the wrong hobby !
conversely if you do, go out and try different cables for yourself
...most respectable dealers will loan you a set and if they
This is a paradox! The people who didn't lose their shirt on high end
cables have no hanger.
Darren
--
darrenyeats
SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1
Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system
darrenyeats's
Pale Blue Ego;274919 Wrote:
Coat hanger? Try these:
www.anticables.com
Has anyone here experience of anticables? Are they as good as they
seem, or it a question of inverse snake-oil (if not quite coat hanger
league :o)
--
morris_minor
While I agree that audiophile cables are the most shameless kind of
snake oil in this industry, and I would actually expect a coat hanger
to make an acceptable speaker cable (low frequency, low-Z), I certainly
would not say that all cables are BS.
Just try using a coat hanger for s/pdif or
Morris..antis are excellent..see my previous
post..
--
Shredder
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seanadams;275014 Wrote:
While I agree that audiophile cables are the most shameless kind of
snake oil in this industry, and I would actually expect a coat hanger
to make an acceptable speaker cable (low frequency, low-Z), I certainly
would not say that all cables are BS.
Just try using a
Shredder;275073 Wrote:
Morris..antis are excellent..see my previous
post..
Sorry - missed that in the excitement over coat hangers :o)
--
morris_minor
morris_minor's Profile:
I've also gotten some decent and very inexpensive stuff from
http://www.monoprice.com. I have a long RCA patch cable from my family
room to the living room that I bought from them, and it drastically
outperformed the cheap, thin one I had gotten somewhere (Radio Shack?)
before.
And yes, I can
GuyDebord;274988 Wrote:
there is no way any audiophile I know could deny the importance of them
(expensive or not, high performance or not).
Now you know of one.
Cables are totally irrelevant to audio performance so long as they meet
certain basic performance requirements. You can buy
opaqueice;275219 Wrote:
Now you know of one.
Two.
The article was great fun. The outraged reactions are also fun.
Bill
--
Listener
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View
opaqueice wrote:
GuyDebord;274988 Wrote:
there is no way any audiophile I know could deny the importance of them
(expensive or not, high performance or not).
Now you know of one.
Cables are totally irrelevant to audio performance so long as they meet
certain basic performance
opaqueice;275219 Wrote:
Now you know of one.
Cables are totally irrelevant to audio performance so long as they meet
certain basic performance requirements. You can buy cables in that
category for a few dollars a foot (monoprice is a good source, or
bluejeans).
That fact has been born
Robin Bowes;275248 Wrote:
The point is that not all cables/amps *do* meet those basic performance
requirements, so the conditional clause in your statement is highly
significant. It is therefore meaningless, and verging on ridiculous to
make such statements making out that all cables
Fight!
http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger
*runs and hides*
;-P
--
EnochLight
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grabs a bag of popcorn and waits for the show, wondering how long it
takes before the testing methodology is questioned then discarded
--
Mark Lanctot
Ben Klass: I won't even eat a pre-7.0 meal. Well, unless it involves
bacon.
SB2, Transporter, beta SBR, beta SBC, pre-production SBC
You beat me to it, now pass the popcorn!
--
m1abrams
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Monster cables burnt-in too much?
--
amcluesent
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Those coat hangers MUST have been cryo'd!
--
konut
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