ModelCitizen;293326 Wrote:
Please, it'd be nice to see one thread here end in harmony.
No it wouldn't!
--
adamslim
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others
SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff
SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES
opaqueice;292935 Wrote:
My argument proved that 24 bit rounding errors cannot possibly be
audible
You obviously have a very low standard of 'proof'!
Dodgy assumptions, a misunderstanding of noise, and no inconvenient
actual experiments. I'm just glad we don't have to rely on you to
Patrick Dixon;293211 Wrote:
You obviously have a very low standard of 'proof'!
Dodgy assumptions, a misunderstanding of noise, and no inconvenient
actual experiments. I'm just glad we don't have to rely on you to
understand how the universe works.
OK, I'll bite... What's YOUR
Patrick Dixon;293211 Wrote:
You obviously have a very low standard of 'proof'!
Here's the thread in question again. Anyone can read that and judge
for themselves:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45736page=7
Now, let's see:
Dodgy assumptions,
Like... the laws of physics?
Please, it'd be nice to see one thread here end in Harmony.
--
ModelCitizen
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
It's the music, stupid.
http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen
ModelCitizen's Profile:
ModelCitizen;293326 Wrote:
Please, it'd be nice to see one thread here end in harmony.Maybe that can
only happen in the Music section!
--
smc2911
http://www.last.fm/user/smc2911/
smc2911's Profile:
So I have searched through the forums, read the replies, and while I
understand the arguments that limited volume reduction will not effect
sound quality, I feel happier getting the same samples out of the
squeezebox as I started with on the original CD - so the volume control
will be set at 100%
Andy8421;292930 Wrote:
So I have searched through the forums, read the replies, and while I
understand the arguments that limited volume reduction will not effect
sound quality, I feel happier getting the same samples out of the
squeezebox as I started with on the original CD - so the volume
Patrick Dixon;291177 Wrote:
So I guess when a horn and an oboe play together, you can't hear the
oboe 'cos the horn is louder?
What an odd thing to say.
Plus, of course, that noise is cumulative, so even if the noise was the
same character, you would have more of it.
You're aware of
NewBuyer;291108 Wrote:
Except at full digital volume (e.g. 100 on the SB3), at which it outputs
at 16 bit - is that correct?
Really? - how does that work...
surely at any volume the output is always sent as 24-bits?
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a
Its an immense task to keep things simple.
--
Anne
Squeezebox 3 Stereovox XV2 Bryston B100-DA SST Carlsson OA50.2
Sennheiser HD580 Precision
Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071
View
Phil Leigh;291331 Wrote:
Really? - how does that work...
surely at any volume the output is always sent as 24-bits?
seanadams;75489 Wrote:
...You will get 16 bits of output:
- When you are playing 16-bit WAV/FLAC files at 100% volume
You will get more than 16 bits:
- When playing
NewBuyer;291108 Wrote:
Except at full digital volume (e.g. 100 on the SB3), at which it outputs
at 16 bit - is that correct?
Remember that the most significant bits don't change position in the
S/PDIF stream, regardless of whether its 16 bits, 20 bits or 24 bits.
Depending on how one reads
Thanks for the feedback and the link. Used to be an EE many years ago,
and brain is getting befuddled these days, but surely any digital
reduction of the sound will reduce quality.
By definition, reducing the volume by reducing the digital values will
reduce the size of the largest sample -
The point is that the original 16 bit is upscaled to 24 by adding 8
*redundant* bits, so if you lose them, you lose no information. To
quote Robin from the link above,
Here's an example using 4-bits / 8 bits:
Original 4-bit audio:
Processed as 8-bit audio:
Half the volume :
Thank you for the reply and the link to the review.
I will go and check the settings on the SB3, although I haven't changed
any of them.
I am not a believer in any of this voodoo 'I changed my mains cord and
the sound is much better' stuff, and I understand that in principle the
digital outputs
If your system is like mine, you will find that this subtle effect you
are describing, is alleviated by using a digital device like the GW
Labs DSP. Works great between my SB3 and DAC, and I think that among
other things, it might be the pulse-transformer isolation the DSP
provides on both the
Thanks again for the reply. I think the example may be incorrect. The
example has not been taken to its 4 bit conclusion.
Original 4 bit sample
Processed as 8 bit audio
Reduced by 50% 0000
So far so good, but the SB3 needs to output this as a 4 bit sample to
the
Thanks for the reply.
I haven't touched any of the advanced settings.
Just to confirm, if the settings are default, and the source file is
WAV, it gets transported as a WAV datastream and the SB3 doesn't have
to do any further processing?
Andy.
--
Andy8421
Your system should show the sb3 to be slightly inferior to the cdp
...assuming your using the standard psu ?.If you improve the psu
you should get much closer to the cdp in my system sb3 [plus modded
psu] feed a dax decade with a cdp as transport ..yes you canjust tell he
cdp has a more
Ripping a CD with EAC is (AFAIK) the better transport you can imagine
(yes, a 30$ computer drive can beat a 2k$ audio mechanics).
That's just the theory and there is too many other parameters in
account. What I would do to improve the basic SB3 would be:
- replace SB psu by a linear one
- use
Andy8421 wrote:
Thanks again for the reply. I think the example may be incorrect. The
example has not been taken to its 4 bit conclusion.
Original 4 bit sample
Processed as 8 bit audio
Reduced by 50% 0000
So far so good, but the SB3 needs to output this as
Thanks for the reply. I would agree that in the case of a 24 bit DAC,
driven in the manner you describe, there would be no loss of resolution
until the volume was reduced to 1/256th of the full volume.
I am however using the DAC in my Krell. So the quesion is whether the
SB3 outputs 24 bit
The S/PDIF default is 20 bits and only equipment that supports 24 bits
sees 24 bits. I'm fairly sure the SB3 puts out 24 bits...but I'm not
sure about the Krell.
BTW the issue with the digital volume control isn't bits (when working
with 24 bits none of the 16 original bits are lost with normal
A couple of points.
First, you say you haven't changed any of the settings on slimserver.
By default (unless this has changed, in which I'm sure someone will
correct me) SS encodes WAVs as FLAC before sending them to the
squeezebox/receiver. That means there cannot possibly be any sonic
I presume you've checked to ensure replaygain or smartgain are not
inadvertantly turned on, and that bit-rate limiting is turned off.
Are you using the same SPDIF cable when comparing your CD player vs.
SB3 into your Krell? Other than that, no idea where the problem lies.
I, too have ML
opaqueice;290921 Wrote:
Second, the discussion of digital volume reduction here is wrong.
Nothing special happens at 1/256 volume. Best practice is to set the
analog volume so that max digital volume is as loud as you will want;
then using the SB volume will result only in a slight
Just want to inform, I read information from another site that if you
play a HDCD decoded flac file, and use fixed volume the HDCD indicator
in the dac comes on.
If you use variable volum and keep this at 100 the indicator comes on.
But, if you lower the volume to 99 the indicator goes out.
Anne;290997 Wrote:
Just want to inform, I read information from another site that if you
play a HDCD decoded flac file, and use fixed volume the HDCD indicator
in the dac comes on.
If you use variable volum and keep this at 100 the indicator comes on.
But, if you lower the volume to 99 the
Patrick Dixon;290982 Wrote:
Hmm, I'm not quite sure which bit you think is 'wrong'.
What's wrong is this whole bit perfect idea.
It's true that if one wanted to take the attenuated digital stream and
reconstruct the original data, that would be impossible when the volume
is reduced by more
By the way, I'm not sure if these questions ever got answered.
Andy8421;290845 Wrote:
Do you happen to know whether it is possible to disable the didgital
volume control or whether the SB leaves the datastream alone if it set
at full volume?
Yes to both.
Andy8421;290918 Wrote:
If
All the s/pdif outputs on all our products are 24-bit.
--
seanadams
seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46229
So I took the plunge over the weekend. Bought an SB3, Duet, couple of
Seagate freeagent drives and made the leap into a distributed home
system. Suffering from the 'dodgy duet' controller network connection
problems which hopefully will be fixed (reported elsewhere on the
forum), but also
Andy8421;290755 Wrote:
A number of things suprised me:
FLAC noticably worse than WAV (I used EAC with FLAC add-in to rip)
Have you changed anything away from default in the file type settings?
It's under the Advanced tab in the settings window.
--
opaqueice
You have pretty good ears.
When Stereophile tested the Bryston B100 they used an SB3 with a Krell
KRC-28 I believe it was, they heard no difference in sound quality with
wireless WAV to SB3 fed into the Bryston dac vs. the Krell playing the
cd and outputting it digitally into the same Bryston
Andy8421;290755 Wrote:
I was also concerned that the volume control on the SB3 worked on the
digital output. I had hoped I was getting a bit perfect copy of the
original CD out of the SPDIF connection on the SB. Only way the volume
can be altered is if the SB processes the datasream, which
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