Good evening all
It seem to me that the attachment to my posing of earlier today never made it
onto the list.
It is a report on the spin characteristics of the ASK 21 and I assume this 6.5
MB document
was automatically withheld due to it size.
I’m happy to submit a copy to anyone interested
Page (v)
/7. Some spins continued indefinitely if controls were released during
the developed spin./
How many other gliders do this? I am pretty sure the Blanik self
recovers from a spin but have never tested it! :-)
PeterS
On 27/12/2014 8:26 AM, Ulrich Stauss wrote:
http://faculty.chicagob
Is this what you had in mind Anthony?
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/index.php?id=seitenfaden-e
Ulrich
-Original Message-
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Anthony Smith
Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2014 16:49
To
Actually, yes. I must try that out sometime!
-Original Message-
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ulrich Stauss
Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2014 8:07 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Austr
Actually, I was thinking a flush mounted static probe rather than a pitot.
It would be interesting to see if a transducer could pick up the pressure
fluctuations from separated flow and be able to see the difference from
attached flow.
After doing some work with the RAAF's P-3 wing tips, I am pret
Bergfalke IV decays into a spiral dive unless pro spin controls are held. If
you hold pro spin controls, it still decays into a spiral dive after three or
so rotations.
Bocian used to stay in a spin until positive recovery controls were applied.
Cath Conway told me way back when that anyth
From memory there have been about 26 fatalities as a result of spin training in
the Puchaz.
If you want to release the controls in a spin go ahead but please don't take
anyone with you
Sent from Samsung Mobile
Original message
From: Anthony Smith
Date:
To: "'Discussion of
I wonder how many of them were off a winch from 1200 ft?
Cheers
Paul
On Dec 27, 2014 8:29 PM, "druddock" wrote:
> From memory there have been about 26 fatalities as a result of spin
> training in the Puchaz.
> If you want to release the controls in a spin go ahead but please don't
> take anyone
>>You probably could do something very easily for modern non-flapped gliders.
>>AoA indicators have been around for a long time. You could have three
>>critical angles annotated on the device display: stall, climb and cruise.
>>Flapped gliders would need to have a method of knowing what the f
SZD 55 also has a stall warning.
Cheers
Paul
On Dec 27, 2014 9:29 PM, "DMcD" wrote:
> >>You probably could do something very easily for modern non-flapped
> gliders. AoA indicators have been around for a long time. You could have
> three critical angles annotated on the device display: stall,
Might be possible. The frequency of the AC component of the pressure and the
amplitude should change as the flow becomes turbulent. AC is good as offsets,
temperature effects don't cause problems. Silicon pressure tranducers easily go
out to one kilohertz frequency response unless they are the o
Well one was two USAF test pilot school graduates from at least 3500 feet AGL.
Mike
> On 27 Dec 2014, at 7:03 pm, Paul Bart wrote:
>
> I wonder how many of them were off a winch from 1200 ft?
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
>> On Dec 27, 2014 8:29 PM, "druddock" wrote:
>> From memory there have bee
Mike,
you've made this claim before. I assume it is another incident, not the
Caracole one (because they weren't that high, nor were they ex test pilots)
But I've never been able to find any other references to an accident
like this and the NTSB database only seems to show up 4 Puchacz
accident
-Original Message-
From: Friedel Weber
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2014 5:38 AM
To: Tom & Jane Gilbert
Subject: DG Flugzeugbau - Newsletter No. 176
DG Flugzeugbau - Newsletter No. 176
December 2014
Welcome to the latest issue of our Newsletter
Index:
Flugzeugbau
New Air Force Contr
Come on tom and jane start writing re AAFC and DG 1001s for GA. it is a
sugccess story Bernard GR IM
On 28 December 2014 at 09:25, Tom & Jane Gilbert <
tnjgilb...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Friedel Weber
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2014 5:38 AM
> To: To
Here's one from the Canadian ATSB which references others.
http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2005/a05o0204/a05o020
4.asp
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk
Sent: Sunday, 28 December 201
From
http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2005/a05o0204/a05o020
4.asp
In 1990, a Puchacz spinning accident that resulted in two fatalities was
investigated by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB). It was
determined that the glider had inadvertently entered a spin at
'As highlighted in the British Gliding Association report, the retention
of aft stick could be expected to be the involuntary reaction of the
pilot in such a situation. '
Could be a major reason why people are dying.
No one seems to be able to: measure this, train for it, or stop it
happening.
H
Thanks for that Derek, though I had seen the Canadian one and I was
aware of the british ones (cos they keep coming up on soaring news sites
whenever anyone mentions Puchacz, like here;
https://www.mail-archive.com/aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net/msg07341.html
).
I am just intrigued by the
Hi Derek
This is consistent with a briefing that the late Mike Valentine gave in South
Australia when the Puchacz first came on the market.
He commented that it loses 300 plus feet in a single rotation and becomes a
"widow maker" if spins are allowed to develop below
1000 ft AGL. The most frig
I've never seen an official NTSB report on it but it was reported on r.a.s. in
a thread on Puch spinning after another Puch spin in elsewhere.
IIRC it was Cindy Brickner who posted that information. R.a.s. Is probably
archived somewhere.
Note also we've had one near spin in by two level 3 instr
And that is what is so annoying about this whole discussion. Only a
little factual documentation* exists about the whole issue. Yes, I have
seen a number of posts by the person you mentioned but dont recall/cant
find one like that. Here's a post from the same person
https://groups.google.com/fo
This could just be one of those issues that does the rounds every so
often, never getting the analysis it deserves.
Some of the relevant information is relayed and lots of it not each time.
Some of the information is distorted due to to people's memories and
some of it not.
If anyone believes pas
I infer from this thread that the general view is that a pilot (perhaps more so
in low hours) has a higher potential to spin when thermalling or attempting to
thermal at less than 500' AGL than at higher altitudes.
If so, why? What behaviours and responses are different?
Richard
Sent f
The horizon appears higher, and pilots in flatland sites are often taught
to judge airspeed based on nose attitude on the horizon.
On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Richard Frawley
wrote:
> I infer from this thread that the general view is that a pilot (perhaps
> more so in low hours) has a highe
Another factor is the perceived acceleration and changes to turn radius/rate at
low level if there is any wind about during a turn. The brain can see this and
subconsciously try to keep the picture constant by tightening the turn or
slowing down.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 28 Dec 2014, at 12:53
Hi Richard,
Fear of manoeuvring when low level might have an inexperienced pilot over
ruddering the turn. This pro-spin cross control in low level turbulent air
(higher "g" transients) can certainly drive one into an incipient spin.
Coupled with lack of spin currency hightening a natural fear when
So where did you get your knowledge of the Puch spin in at Cal city?
Mike
> On 28 Dec 2014, at 8:59 am, stephenk wrote:
>
> And that is what is so annoying about this whole discussion. Only a little
> factual documentation* exists about the whole issue. Yes, I have seen a
> number of posts
Were there any Puchaz spin fatalities in Australia? I know that DDSC used
them for spin training from mid nineties without an incident.
Cheers
Paul
On Dec 28, 2014 1:32 PM, "Daryl Mackay" wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> Fear of manoeuvring when low level might have an inexperienced pilot over
> rudderin
On 28/12/2014, at 12:50 PM, Richard Frawley wrote:
I infer from this thread that the general view is that a pilot
(perhaps more so in low hours) has a higher potential to spin when
thermalling or attempting to thermal at less than 500' AGL than at
higher altitudes.
Additional to the pilot
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