Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

*Sent:* Friday, 27 April 2018 11:44 AM *To:* Richard Bayliss *Cc:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance. Think we're getting a little off topic here. The issue is weather back charging a customer on a supoort/maintenance contra

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

The original statutory guarantees apply, per ACL, however this has no bearing on whether a vendor can be compelled to issue a support contract. Yes you're entitled to make the same warranty claims as the original purchaser, though I suspect the equipment is out of warranty anyway. I am not a lawy

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Paul, I never said the vendor has no preexisting relationship and the thread has proven that consumer law applies. Regards, Peter Tiggerdine On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 08:43 Paul Wilkins wrote: > The vendor has no preexisting relationship with the purchaser, so the > vendor can dictate such ter

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

The vendor has no preexisting relationship with the purchaser, so the vendor can dictate such terms as suit to bring the device under support. The purchaser can take it or leave it - unless the vendor's actions are, beyond dispute, in breach of the law. There's no consumer protection rights. The o

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Devils advocate here, but could it be argued that the products lifetime ended in some aspects once the original purchaser decided to sell it? Of course that may depend on its age, but I would think that it could be reasonable to say that if the original purchaser had had the item for a number of

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Lifetime warranties usually only apply to the original purchaser though. On 27 April 2018 at 16:00, wrote: > On Fri, 27 Apr 2018, Richard Bayliss wrote: > > > The ACCC consumer guarantee states it doesn’t apply to second hand > (private sales) goods, which is the scenario the OP stated. > > Pr

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018, Richard Bayliss wrote: > The ACCC consumer guarantee states it doesn’t apply to second hand (private > sales) goods, which is the scenario the OP stated. Private (personal) sales, but businesses are still covered: https://legalvision.com.au/i-sell-second-hand-goods-do-the-c

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Think we're getting a little off topic here. The issue is weather back charging a customer on a supoort/maintenance contract is okay. The device was purchased second hand. The vendor is charging for the previous 18months plus the 12months forward in the quote for the support contract. Regards,

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Fair enough, clearly as I am not a lawyer I was confused by the wording in the ACCC website. Exceptions to guarantees [..] Rights to a repair, replacement, refund, cancellation or compensation do not apply to items: [..] bought as a one-off from a private seller, for example at a garage sale

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Nonsense, the ACL applies to second hand goods also . (section 5 / page 11) Where you're confused is that whilst the private seller has no obligations under the ACL, the original vendor's obligations st

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

The ACCC consumer guarantee states it doesn’t apply to second hand (private sales) goods, which is the scenario the OP stated. Cheers Rich > On 27 Apr 2018, at 10:32, Ben Buxton wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:15 AM Karen Hargreave >> wrote: >> So we then sit and watch as the pri

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:15 AM Karen Hargreave wrote: > So we then sit and watch as the price for everything starts to go through > the roof further than it has. Previously they have been able to sell > equipment, and then the contracts. The contracts cover the staff and any > additional costs t

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On 26/04/2018 5:39 PM, Ben Buxton wrote: > Sounds like you're all getting shafted big-time by the vendors, and it's > mostly because no one in this industry has the guts to stand up for > themselves. Bought your box in Australia .. then use the consumer guarantees. Its not difficult. > Product

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

So we then sit and watch as the price for everything starts to go through the roof further than it has. Previously they have been able to sell equipment, and then the contracts. The contracts cover the staff and any additional costs that may arise or pays for them to send out people to deal with

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Sounds like you're all getting shafted big-time by the vendors, and it's mostly because no one in this industry has the guts to stand up for themselves. You all need to demand that the vendors comply with their legal obligations under Australian Consumer Law (yes - you're covered by it too

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On 4/25/2018 12:00 PM, ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net wrote: I've just observed an interesting situation where a vendor is charging upto 18months "fee" to bring a device back into active maintenance and support. The customer purchase the kit secondhand. Naturally the customer is pushing back (d

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018, Peter Tiggerdine wrote: > Seems to me it's a "just in time support" tax. If a business doesn't need > support for 2 years but then decides to get support > and use the TAC service, then they're paying for what they're using. To > charge customers a tax because they didn't re

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

But keep in mind: Insurance != support. When the floods in Brisbane happened (somewhere between 2008-2017, the exact year escapes me) we had to tell the customers that their soaked equipment wasn't an RMA/Support issue but an insurance issue. Edwin On 26 April 2018 at 15:58, Scott Howard wrote:

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Seems to me it's a "just in time support" tax. If a business doesn't need support for 2 years but then decides to get support and use the TAC service, then they're paying for what they're using. To charge customers a tax because they didn't require the service or support for 2 years is just large M

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Hi Peter, This is relatively common in the IT Industry in a number of hardware types (servers, storage, network gear) as well as for software. I'm sure there are arguments for and against it - I personally dislike the practice, and I'd really be looking at what the options are - can the customer

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018, Scott Howard wrote: While you're at it, you might as well cancel your house and contents insurance. If the building burns down, just call up and start a new policy and then submit your claim. There's a small difference there. If the "event" happens outside your insured

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

th the customer and vendor. Pay your > share, buy cold spares, or change to a vendor that better aligns with your > commercial expectations. > > Regards, > -Brad. > ____________ > From: AusNOG on behalf of Karl Auer < > ka...@biplane.com.au> > Sent: Thursday, 26 Ap

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Perhaps there is a middle ground like with health insurance? Time limits for certain claims?  The main complaint seems to be buying second hand gear, perhaps providing a bill of sale and a statement saying the hardware is 'currently' working and operational, and a first 1-3 months no RMA or s

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

our commercial expectations. Regards, -Brad. From: AusNOG on behalf of Karl Auer Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2018 1:41 PM To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance. On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 00:07 +, Nikolas Geyer wrote: > Yes, i

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

While you're at it, you might as well cancel your house and contents insurance. If the building burns down, just call up and start a new policy and then submit your claim. I'm sure they'll be ok with that, right? Scott On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:41 PM, Karl Auer wrote: > On Wed, 2018-04-2

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

The vendor side of the problem is when I have 200 switches and no maintenance contracts, then whenever one dies I buy the $50 support service on that single switch to get it RMA'd then go back to not paying support on anything ever again. Sort of like not paying for car insurance for 6 years then

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On Wed, 2018-04-25 at 00:07 +, Nikolas Geyer wrote: > Yes, it’s pretty standard. It’s to stop people running hardware > without a maintenance contract and only buying one when they need to > do, for example, a RMA. Sorry, why is that a problem? If they pay the support fee, they should get the

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Yes, it’s pretty standard. It’s to stop people running hardware without a maintenance contract and only buying one when they need to do, for example, a RMA. While it is certainly frustrating, I can also understand the vendor side of this “problem”. Sent from my iPhone > On 24 Apr 2018, at 12:

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018, Peter Tiggerdine wrote: I've just observed an interesting situation where a vendor is charging upto 18months "fee" to bring a device back into active maintenance and support. The customer purchase the kit secondhand. Naturally the customer is pushing back (don't blame th

Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

> I've just observed an interesting situation where a vendor is charging upto > 18months "fee" to bring a device back into active maintenance and support. > The customer purchase the kit secondhand. Naturally the customer is pushing > back (don't blame them). > Is this common in our industry? H

[AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

Hi All Apologies for the noise. I've just observed an interesting situation where a vendor is charging upto 18months "fee" to bring a device back into active maintenance and support. The customer purchase the kit secondhand. Naturally the customer is pushing back (don't blame them). Is this comm