Billy Abbott wrote:
I think that niche journalism is one of the first places to suffer.
That's a good point. :)
I'll have to go back on myself and say "we'll just have to see..."
I guess it somewhat depends what you call a blog. Basically a blog can
be pretty much any sequential line of post
"European Newspapers Find Creative Ways to Thrive in the Internet Age
PARIS — As the death toll in the American newspaper industry mounted
this month, the German publisher Axel Springer, which owns Bild, the
biggest newspaper in Europe, reported the highest profit in its
62-year history."
http://
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Tim Dobson wrote:
I suspect that specialist areas of journalism will remain - sailing magazines
for instance won't stop employing people to write about new yachts and
dinghies, but I suspect some of the more general publications will need to
adapt their business model or
> On pictures I agree of course that consumer technology is making the
> equipment better and more accessible, but I would say this has been
> happening for years and so maybe you underestimate the value of the
> professional photographer or photo journalist. Most of us can't take photos
> as well
wider audiences while the value of their role
continues with a lower barrier to entry.
Cheers,
jod
From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of Phil Wilson
Sent: Sat 28/03/2009 13:39
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Clay Shirky: Newsp
Richard Lockwood wrote:
There have been a couple of articles in the press recently which raise
the question of trust: Who do you trust more, an unaccountable 'blogger,
or the BBC?
If a blogger is trying to make a living from it, they are likely to be
directly accountable for their posts - if
Fearghas McKay wrote:
>
> On 29 Mar 2009, at 19:48, Dave Crossland wrote:
>
>> Photography did in portrait painters. Same story, different century.
>
> It did ?
>
> There really are no portrait painters left?
>
> I think the effect of photography was that portraiture as a market
> increased, t
On 29 Mar 2009, at 19:48, Dave Crossland wrote:
Photography did in portrait painters. Same story, different century.
It did ?
There really are no portrait painters left?
I think the effect of photography was that portraiture as a market
increased, the affluent could still ( and did ) get
2009/3/29 Richard Lockwood :
> Dave C will have you believe that a 'blogger is more trustworthy because
> he's "free" - but he's unaccountable to anyone.
That's not what I am saying.
I don't say that any random blogger is more trustworthy than a random
journalist. I say they are both untrustworth
As ever, the answer, and the future lies somewhere inbetween.
While 'bloggers can, and do pass opinion, and produce stories based on
primary news stories, they don't have the resources to become those primary
news sources. The BBC, The Times, Reuters etc do have the resources.
There have been a c
Dave Crossland wrote:
> 2009/3/29 James Ockenden :
>>> I think this is a false dilemma. Guys in my office have phones with
>>> 8MP cameras. My 18-month old phone has a 5MP camera. I suspect a good
>>> lens and skill with photoshop is vastly more important than the
>>> photographer being professiona
2009/3/29 James Ockenden :
>> I think this is a false dilemma. Guys in my office have phones with
>> 8MP cameras. My 18-month old phone has a 5MP camera. I suspect a good
>> lens and skill with photoshop is vastly more important than the
>> photographer being professional.
>
> Sure, some kid with a
> I think this is a false dilemma. Guys in my office have phones with
> 8MP cameras. My 18-month old phone has a 5MP camera. I suspect a good
> lens and skill with photoshop is vastly more important than the
> photographer being professional.
Sure, some kid with a 10MP phone can take a 300dpi fron
2009/3/18 John O'Donovan :
> A blog reader does not replace all the things people buy a newspaper for in
> my criteria. If it did, Newspapers would be dead already,
This strikes me as fallicious. Just because it hasn't collapsed yet
doesn't mean that it won't peter out.
McLuhan said early on that
Hi,
There's just two bits in John's last message I'd like to pick up:
"If you want a (quality) picture of an event, someone has to be there
and some poor pictures from a phone camera are not a replacement."
I think this is a false dilemma. Guys in my office have phones with
8MP cameras. My 18-mo
s.bbc.co.uk on behalf of Dave Crossland
Sent: Tue 17/03/2009 08:43
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Clay Shirky: Newspapers and Thinking the Unthinkable
2009/3/17 John O'Donovan :
>
> [those] in the newsroom should go get another job
> to pay the bills so that t
I would tend to agree with you Tom.
The "fun" side of this discussion is that most of the opinions are
factual, yet as with the press, many of them will not be true once
these changes have passed, especially those with a spoonful of fear
factor.
I can remember the uproar in the Docklands whe
Network bridge when traveling with the kids... I have patched into the
hotel Internet with the Ethernet adapter on one of the XO-1s then
meshed them; I surfed on one while the kids surfed on the other (in
the next room over), and when it was bedtime I knocked on the wall one
minute before cutting t
Sean DALY wrote:
I have two XO-1s from the previous G1G1s and a third I picked up on
eBay. It's rather magical the way they look for and find each other in
the mesh network. I've actually traveled with a pair instead of my
usual laptop (the 2 XO-1s together aren't larger or heavier).
Do you get
Yes, it is indeed a pity that OLPC doesn't make XO-1s easily available
outside of the annual G1G1 programme. However, that could change as
they have recently decided to deploy widely in the USA and not just
developing countries.
I have two XO-1s from the previous G1G1s and a third I picked up on
e
Sorry, I had a Brianstorm...
2009/3/17 Dave Crossland
> 2009/3/17 Brian Butterworth :
> > That was quick of them...
>
> "Monday 12 May"? Looks like you've been stealing others' intellectual
> property, Brian! :)
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
> v
lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Clay Shirky: Newspapers and Thinking the
Unthinkable
That was quick of them...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/may/12/thetimes.bskyb
2009/3/17 John O'Donovan
I like Brian's suggestion of Times TV and Sky News in a newsroom
2009/3/17 Brian Butterworth :
> That was quick of them...
"Monday 12 May"? Looks like you've been stealing others' intellectual
property, Brian! :)
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
U
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Sean DALY wrote:
> A key characteristic of a newspaper is that you can fold it up.
> Foldable or rollable screens may yet arrive in the next few years, I
> vaguely recall Samsung and Sony showing proof-of-concept and
> prototypes the last year.
If I get my fish &
Brian Butterworth wrote:
It is very noticeable that WVM is not a DAB user...
I was actually thinking of cross between a Kindle and an etch-a-sketch
that can be dropped onto a road, get covered in cement dust and will
still allow page 3 to be read.Something with an interface so simple
that
A key characteristic of a newspaper is that you can fold it up.
Foldable or rollable screens may yet arrive in the next few years, I
vaguely recall Samsung and Sony showing proof-of-concept and
prototypes the last year.
The Touch Book by Always Innovating is creating buzz, you leave the
keyboard i
That was quick of them...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/may/12/thetimes.bskyb
2009/3/17 John O'Donovan
>
>
> I like Brian's suggestion of Times TV and Sky News in a newsroom mash-up.
> The thought has not passed them by entirely, though they offer different
> types of journalism and are
It is very noticeable that WVM is not a DAB user...
I was actually thinking of cross between a Kindle and an etch-a-sketch that
can be dropped onto a road, get covered in cement dust and will still allow
page 3 to be read.Something with an interface so simple that it can be
operated by "anyone
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 11:15, Rob Myers wrote:
> That would be disastrous. In the UK this would preclude investigating
> anyone who has anything to do with the state in order to avoid
> endangering the university's funding. And in general it would turn
> journalism from the investigation of truth
Brian Butterworth wrote:
And then there's that gizmo, the one that can deliver the Sun to "white
van man" cheaply and reliably.
The radio?
S
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visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Uno
2009/3/17 John O'Donovan :
>
> [those] in the newsroom should go get another job
> to pay the bills so that they can support their journalism in their spare
> time, sort themselves out and learn up about internet marketing and the
> brave new world.
>
> Seriously?
Yes. Professional bloggers have b
41
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Clay Shirky: Newspapers and Thinking the Unthinkable
2009/3/16 Kevin Anderson :
>
> Going back to some of the previous comments though, the resistance to the
> change wasn't just in the boardrooms, it was also in the ne
2009/3/16 Brian Butterworth :
>
> One thing I am wondering, will News International realise that "The Times"
> brand needs a TV channel more than BSkyB does?
Hopefully not, because that would be an excellent idea for them to do so :)
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubsc
If you look at what "The Sun" does on mobile, it seems very geared up
to getting 'white van man' to spend the odd £1 or £2 when he is
sitting in his van bored. It certainly isn't what you'd call
traditional "public service broadcasting" news, but it seems very
cleverly targeted at their market.
al
All,
I've been reading this thread with great interest and it seems to sum the
whole current situation up rather well and I would add stuff but I've
buggered my rotator cuff (apparently).
The BBC being a "public service newspaper" - it is certainly a long way from
the days of Ceefax and three-TV-b
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:
>
> My hope with the change is that we'll get an answer to the questions
> MediaLens raise about the integrity of the profession.
My hope is that with the change MediaLens will find something better to do. ;-P
- Rob.
-
Sent via the backstage
2009/3/16 Kevin Anderson :
>
> Going back to some of the previous comments though, the resistance to the
> change wasn't just in the boardrooms, it was also in the newsrooms.
It strikes me as exceedingly likely that the bastards in the boardroom
will be joined in the dole queue by the bastards in
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:45, Kevin Anderson wrote:
>
>
> Yes, we're in a post-industrial era for journalism. That's been pretty
> clear to most of us who weren't wed to the old model. We don't really know
> what comes next.
There was a speech at SxSW on that -
http://www.stevenberlinjohnson.
On 16/03/2009 11:39, "Robert (Jamie) Munro" wrote:
> Kevin Anderson wrote:
>>
>> funding - the licence fee. Commercial newspapers are finding their
>> readership and advertising decline. Unless the licence fee were extended
>> to a public service newspaper (highly unlikely), the BBC doesn't prov
On 16 Mar 2009, 11:45 AM, "Robert (Jamie) Munro" wrote:
Kevin Anderson wrote: > > funding - the licence fee. Commercial newspapers
> are finding their > reade...
> I think that news.bbc.co.uk is already a public service newspaper -
> albeit one without a print edition.
>
> Robert (Jamie) Munro
>
Bingo :)
Regards, Dave
On 16 Mar 2009, 11:45 AM, "Robert (Jamie) Munro" wrote:
Kevin Anderson wrote: > > funding - the licence fee. Commercial newspapers
are finding their > reade...
I think that news.bbc.co.uk is already a public service newspaper -
albeit one without a print edition.
Robert
Kevin Anderson wrote:
>
> funding - the licence fee. Commercial newspapers are finding their
> readership and advertising decline. Unless the licence fee were extended
> to a public service newspaper (highly unlikely), the BBC doesn't provide
> that much of a model that could easily be transferred
I would venture to add it's even worse for print journalists, who
generally speaking in the past had a stressful day to make deadline
then time off was time off.
Nowadays, print journalists covering a beat are often expected to file
online from wherever they are if there is breaking news in their
Kevin Charman-Anderson wrote:
> But Dave, taking a swing from the barricades at the profiteering
> publishers sounds lovely but it comes close to ignoring the pain and
> economic dislocation that journalists are going through at the moment.
> We're not the only ones hurting in this recession, but
On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 16:36 +, Dave Crossland wrote:
>
> But make money for whom? Those doing the activity at the core of the
> profession - in the case of newspapers, the reporters; in the case of
> music, the artists - or for those involved in the profession in roles
> peripheral to it's co
2009/3/15 Andy Halsall :
> On Sunday 15 March 2009 14:55:43 Dave Crossland wrote:
>> 2009/3/15 Kevin Anderson :
>> > As for Clay's piece, it's one of the best of a kind. I would say that
>> > much of the discussion here is confusing public funding with a business
>> > model.
>>
>> I think the phras
On Sunday 15 March 2009 14:55:43 Dave Crossland wrote:
> 2009/3/15 Kevin Anderson :
> > As for Clay's piece, it's one of the best of a kind. I would say that
> > much of the discussion here is confusing public funding with a business
> > model.
>
> I think the phrase "business model" is colloquiall
2009/3/15 Kevin Anderson :
>
> As for Clay's piece, it's one of the best of a kind. I would say that much
> of the discussion here is confusing public funding with a business model.
I think the phrase "business model" is colloquially used as "funding
model for people for whom the Internet is disso
On Sunday 15 March 2009 07:45:27 Dan Brickley wrote:
> On 15/3/09 02:32, Andy Halsall wrote:
> >> I concur with his viewpoint that business models are being broken
> >> faster than new ones can be invented.
> >
> > Business models and distribution methods, the demand for high quality
> > content ho
As an American who worked for the BBC for eight years, it's interesting to
see some of the comments here and say that they aren't entirely accurate.
It's not correct to conflate PBS and NPR. Although both public, they are
funded with slightly different mechanisms and are different organisationally
Dan Brickley wrote:
> journalism as a professional practice might find a home
> within universities.
That would be disastrous. In the UK this would preclude investigating
anyone who has anything to do with the state in order to avoid
endangering the university's funding. And in general it would tu
On 15/3/09 02:12, Sean DALY wrote:
http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/03/newspapers-and-thinking-the-unthinkable/
I was fascinated by this piece.
Example: "Society doesn’t need newspapers. What we need is journalism."
Related theme in Juan Cole's blog recently,
http://www.juancole.com/2009/03
On 15/3/09 02:32, Andy Halsall wrote:
I concur with his viewpoint that business models are being broken
faster than new ones can be invented.
Business models and distribution methods, the demand for high quality content
however remains constant
Really? Do we have metrics...? I'd love to see e
This is purely my personal opinion. The BBC has a huge influence in the
global society. We all know that.Next question?
Sam Mbale
Mpelembe Network
http://www.mpelembe.net
Follow me on http://twitter.com/mpelembe
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 1:55 AM, Dave Crossland wrote:
> 2009/3/15 Andy Halsall :
Yes, quite, when I said "no equivalent" I was precisely thinking of
the gargantuan scale of the BBC (with correspondents worldwide!)
compared to PBS which has to pitifully beg viewers for contributions
all the time...
Sean
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Brendan Quinn wrote:
>>
>> I waited for
2009/3/15 Andy Halsall :
>
>> I concur with his viewpoint that business models are being broken
>> faster than new ones can be invented.
>
> Business models and distribution methods, the demand for high quality content
> however remains constant, as long as that doesn't change there will always be
I waited for him to cite the example of the BBC as a model that could
survive the Internet revolution... but he didn't, surely because in
the USA there is no equivalent.
To be fair he does mention NPR as a successful model (or at least a less
unsuccessful one). National Public Radio is a radio n
> I concur with his viewpoint that business models are being broken
> faster than new ones can be invented.
>
Business models and distribution methods, the demand for high quality content
however remains constant, as long as that doesn't change there will always be
a need for journalists, writer
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